August 15, 2025 • 19 mins
Plastic pollution in the ocean is no longer just an environmental issue—it’s a public health crisis and an economic threat. In this episode, I break down the latest updates from the UN negotiations on a global plastics treaty, explaining why the talks in Geneva this month could set the course for the next generation’s relationship with plastic. From production caps to industry lobbying, the fight over how to address the problem is as intense as ever.
Plastic pollution in the ocean also raises questions about equity, with developing nations calling for solutions that protect both the environment and their right to grow sustainably. I share shocking new research on how microplastics are showing up in human bodies, costing trillions in healthcare, and why activists believe this treaty is our once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to act.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Plastic pollution is a problem forall of us, not just the environment.
Studies have shown that plasticpollution has affected human health
in the cardiovascular system, inour tissues and other places that
will cause us to eventually die orhave harmful effects due to plastic
pollution bringing down in our system.
Plastic pollution isa fossil fuel product.
(00:22):
It is creating using petroleum.
It's a petroleum productand things need to change.
Certain countries like Canada are banningspecific single use plastics, but it's
being attacked in court and there's anappeal decision waiting as we speak.
Internationally, thereis a plastic treaty.
It was hoped to be finished in2024, and it's been worked on for
the last two to three years, butit still hasn't been completed.
(00:45):
Now, there are meetings as we speak inGeneva to be able to come to an agreement
to put a plastic treaty in place.
Will it be completed bythe end of this meeting?
I doubt it.
I hope so, but I highly doubt it.
But we're gonna talk about whyit's being held up, what you can do
about it, and all the informationrelated to it on this episode of the
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
(01:06):
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to another exciting episodeof the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and thisis the podcast where you find out what's
happening with the ocean, how you canspeak up for the ocean, what you can do to
live for a better ocean by taking action.
And just to let you know, I love howyou're listening to this podcast.
I love how if you've been herefor a while and you continue
to listen, thank you so much.
(01:27):
And if you're just new here, welcome.
This is where I break down a lot of thingsthat are happening around the world with
plastic pollution, other ocean issues, andjust share some good news, some bad news,
and some just regular news of new specieslike I did last episode or a couple of
episodes ago where there was a new species
of manta rays that werejust discovered and named.
so fun stuff like that.
sometimes not so fun stuff like inthis case, but I break down what's
(01:48):
being done about it and how it'sgoing to affect you in the future.
So if you wanna know more and youwant to be more involved in ocean
related stuff, join the undertow.
It is a online community that I'mcreating with two other co-founders,
and we are creating this online app.
It's coming out soon.
We want you to join the waiting list.
Just go to speak up for blue.com/jointhe undertow and we'll give
(02:09):
you more information there.
Let's get started with the show.
Look, the plastic treaty has been talkedabout for the last couple of years.
I've had people on to talk about itfrom Oceana, from Monterey Bay Aquarium.
We've talked about the hopes.
We've talked about the challengesthat we faced coming into the plastic
treaty or during the differentmeetings in the plastic treaty.
There were four meetings that I rememberand that were done all over the world.
(02:31):
And they had people like nationscome in from all over the world.
They had industry, they had nonprofitorganizations, environmental NGOs and
other government departments that werecoming in to say, Hey, you know what?
We want a plastic treaty.
And then of course the industry'slike, Hey, you know what?
We don't really need a plastic treaty.
We don't need to limit plastic.
We need to build plastic.
'cause guess what?
(02:51):
30% of fossil fuel revenuescome from creating plastic.
Plastic is a petroleum product.
I'm not sure if you knew that.
That's something I didn't knowup until a couple of years ago.
But it's a petroleum product and thepetroleum companies rely on one third
of their business to create plastic.
So there's a reason for plastics tobe in, and that's a greedy reason.
(03:12):
Now plastics also provide somethingthat's very, you know, convenient for us.
You can have plastic straws, you canhave plastic utensils or plastic water
bottles, all these different types ofthings that we use in our regular day.
But then you go on and a lotof things are used in plastics.
I'm looking around in my office here.
I've got two monitors.
I've got all these things that are encasedin plastic, they're reusable plastic,
(03:33):
but eventually when they get discarded,which they will at some point in time.
They're not gonna break down easy.
Or when they do break down, it couldend up in the ocean or they could end
up in a landfill that's not reallyproperly discarded and managed.
And so that, here it comes a problemwhere we need better waste management
systems, even in developed countrieslike Canada and the US and other places.
And then we also need to be realabout, are all these things recyclable?
(03:57):
Like we're told, you know, they're told ifyou have plastic put in the recycling bin.
But we've known over thispodcast, we've been listening
to this over the last 10 years.
You know that the recycling is prettymuch a sham other than a few items that
are local to you that might be like, hey.
in your region or your county, they mightbe able to, you know, recycle specific
plastics, but for the most part, theydon't get recycled because the regular
(04:19):
old school coffee cups have this likewax on it that can't be separated.
So the actual material that is recyclablecan't be recycled because of that
wax on it that keeps the cup intact.
Now you have a number of just likeplastic cups that are single use that
just get thrown around, whether it beon the pavement or in a garbage or in
a recycling bin, but doesn't actuallyget recycled and ends up going to the
(04:41):
landfill, breaks down, chemicals breakdown, gets into our ecosystem, gets into
our environment, gets into our system.
There have been studies that show thatair molecules contain microplastics.
You get sea salt thatcontains microplastic.
It's pretty much everywhere.
It's in our systems.
You know, I have two girls who are inthe teenage age group and you know, I
can just imagine how much plastic they'vehad just in their environment over time.
(05:04):
And it's something that is veryscary from a health perspective.
You know, it's been scary for alot of conservationists before and
people who love the environment ofwhat it's doing to our environment.
But as we keep telling people,eventually it ends up harming us.
And this has been harming usfor a while, and the studies
are really just showing it.
And we've continued to allow forsingle use plastics and other plastics
(05:24):
to be used in our systems becauseit's convenient, because we want to
have that like rush of a lifestyle.
We don't slow down enough.
So if like we're thirsty, we're gonna goto a convenience store, we're gonna go to
a store and we're gonna get something ina plastic cup or in a plastic bottle, and
we're not gonna use our reusable bottles'cause they're heavy and they're a pain
in the butt to bring around and so forth.
People think like that.
(05:44):
That's just, you know how peoplethink whether we like it or not.
Or you can call them lazy, wecan call 'em all these names.
People think like that and there'ssometimes where you forget a water
bottle or you forget something,but you're really thirsty.
It's hot outside.
I don't know if you guys havehad a bad summer in terms of
no rain and just pure heat.
but here in Canada we haven't hadas bad as a lot of places around the
world that we're used to humidity, butwe've had humidity almost all summer.
(06:08):
Normally it's just for a few weeksor maybe the last bit of August, or
just a part in August, maybe a littlebit in July, but since the end of
June, we've had humidity up the wazoo.
and I'll tell you, like norain, very, very little rain.
We've had rain, but not much, not what'snecessary to keep everything moving.
You know, like keep our, ecosystemdoing well and keeping our plants
(06:28):
watered and, just our regularecosystem functioning going and
we're gonna pay for it eventually.
It's coming and we just don't know howit arrives, but we need some sort of
management, not only from a nationalperspective in each of our countries, but
also from an international perspective.
That's why the plastic treaty has beensuch an important part of creating
an international binding agreement.
(06:50):
You know, whether you think those areright or not, or people abide by them
or not, a binding agreement that allowscountries to use as a legislative tool
and a conservation tool to put in lawsthat will regulate and manage single
use plastics and plastics in general.
As an example, I wanted to go over whatCanada has done and I apologize for people
(07:11):
who have listened to this before becausepeople who have listened to this, I've
talked about this since it was announcedand since it was put in, in 2021.
But essentially in 2021, the federalgovernment in Canada designated plastics
as toxic under the CEPA in 2021.
So enabling regulatory measures like thatban on the certain single use plastics.
And then you have in 2023 thefederal court rules and designation
(07:33):
unreasonable that all plasticsare toxic and unconstitutional.
So it was challenged by chemicalcompanies and by fossil fuel companies,
like large, large corporate companiesthat make and create plastics.
They said, Hey, you know what?
We want to continue making this.
We don't necessarily have aproblem with the single use ban.
We just don't want all plasticsto be designated as toxic
(07:55):
'cause we don't believe that.
We think that's just a general typeof classification and it's not true.
And until you prove that, and this iswhat I love about industries, like
until you prove that it's bad for usand all plastics are bad for us, you
can't say that, that it's regulated.
And the reason why they put, youknow, plastic is toxic in general
it allows them to create these toolslike the single use ban plastics.
(08:17):
There's also a registry that's beingcreated, a plastics registry that
will follow the plastics throughthe supply chain of its creation and
where it goes and how it's bought andeverything, and how it's disposed of.
I assume there's gonna be some regulatorymatter coming in the future when they
analyze that registry to find out ofwho's responsible for disposing of
these and creating a better productfor these plastics and which plastics
(08:40):
are worse and which plastics arenot as bad, and all sorts of things.
So I'm sure that's coming and that'swhat these companies are worried about.
They don't really care about thesingle use plastics ban that Canada
has, but they do care the fact thatthere's this overarching classification
that plastics are toxic under theCanadian Environmental Protection Act.
So, they challenged it.
The federal court said, Hey, youknow what, you can't just do that's
(09:02):
overly broad and unconstitutional.
And said the government failed to showthat every such item poses a risk, which
I almost feel like it should be reversed.
I'm always of the mindsetthat it should be reversed.
If you have a company and youcreate a product, you should show
that it's not harmful to humans.
They should show it's notharmful to the environment.
If it is, you need to change it.
(09:22):
That's pretty much, it'll slow yourprocess down, but come up with a better
product and you really use innovation.
Anyway, in summer of 2024, the appealproceeded in around mid 2024 in June.
On June 25th, 2024, the FederalCourt of Appeal heard arguments
both for and against the validityof the toxic classification.
The federal government assertedthat all plastics, or at least those
(09:42):
that break down can cause harm,justifying the classification as
necessary for comprehensive regulation.
Environmental NGOs as wellas health groups stepped in.
The Coalition of Health and environmentalgroups like the Davis Suzuki Foundation,
Greenpeace Canada, as well as othersintervene in support of the government's
position saying that, the classificationthat all plastics toxic is necessary
for comprehensive regulation.
(10:04):
that's always good.
And then the decision forthe appeal is still pending.
As of January 2025 and from whatI've looked up, we have not been
able to see what has come out.
And if you do know if I missedit somehow, please let me know if
there's been a decision or not.
It is something that, youknow, we're waiting on.
But what's nice is that the court granteda stay so that the regulation on single
use plastic ban can still go through.
(10:26):
What I worry about is that all otherregulations that have been created for
this or we're in the process of beingcreated has pretty much put a pause on it.
'cause government doesn't wanna waste anytype of work or money on something that
may or may not be able to go through.
I think they should still be workingon it personally but I can see a lot of
people saying like, why are you doingthis when at some point you're not gonna
(10:47):
wanna do that or it might not be validand you might not be able to do it.
So, I think that's probably whatthe holdup of some of the other
regulations that are coming out.
But it's nice to have.
It's nice that some of thesecountries like Canada are
actually putting it through.
I think Costa Rica also bannedsingle use plastics and then
some other countries as well.
That's a huge feat.
But as we speak now in Augustof 2025, if you're listening to
(11:09):
this until August 14th, 2025.
In Geneva, there is the Ink5.2 negotiations underway.
So this is the plastic treaty.
So the fifth round is split into twosessions due to the slow progress.
So the current talks run untilAugust 14th, but there's tension.
There's about 200 industrylobbyists in the room.
(11:30):
They are there to essentially slow downthe process or essentially just get in
its way, and start to put in certaincaveats and exceptions that allow their
companies that they represent to have
these exceptions, and they can dopretty much whatever you want, but the
guardian reports, industry delegatesoutnumber the scientists at Geneva
talks and raising transparency concerns.
(11:52):
So they're worried about what'sbeen happening and how once private
companies get involved that are nottransparent and that have sort of
a devious or nefarious sort of act
when they go there, they want to stopthis plastic treaty from going on.
Let's be honest.
All these organizations, thesecorporations and stuff, they
don't want, like the industry,they do not want this to happen.
It's gonna impede ontheir progress for money.
(12:13):
It's gonna impede on their progressfor creating products for other people.
The plastic treaty is gonna slowdown their growth essentially,
and that's what they want.
But you know, it's pretty big.
Now, small island nations in the EUare pushing for caps on the number
of plastic products that can be made.
Oil producing countries preferwaste management focus instead.
And so instead of banning or puttingcaps or a quota on the amount of plastic
(12:36):
products that can come out, oil producingcountries prefer waste management focus.
That's a worrisome because it's kind oflike the climate change, you know, oil
producing companies depending on who'sin charge of the government want to use
carbon capture, which hasn't really beenproven to work efficiently, as they say.
And so they abandon all other ways.
They're saying, no, we can actually justinnovate our way out of it and we can
(12:57):
create these carbon capture services,and then we can capture all the carbon.
Well, the same thing here.
Well, we can recycle and we can,you know, manage our waste better.
But even in countries like Canadaand the US and other countries.
You know, we've known in the pastthat we've actually taken a lot of
our recyclable material and we'veshifted off to small island states.
So they have to dispose of it.
Now, we pay for them to dispose it, butthen they don't really dispose of it.
(13:20):
And when in a report came out saying 80%of the plastic pollution that's happening
is happening in these small islandstates, people are like, well, why are
these small island states doing this?
You know, larger developed statessaying, Hey, you know what?
We're gonna just ship our stuff.
You guys can take care of it.
We'll just pay you money.
Outta sight outta mind.
Well, that doesn't help.
Right?
That didn't help at all.
It vilified these small island stateswhen we didn't know what was happening.
(13:42):
And now look what happens.
We know that this wholerecycling game is just garbage.
It was allegedly created by the chemicalindustry, and fossil food industry
to say, Hey, you know what, yeah,we're gonna create this stuff, but
it's actually recyclable so you canreuse it over and over and over again.
And we'll just create different products.
We know that unless it has amarket, it costs money to break
it down, to create and somebodyhas to purchase the materials.
(14:03):
there's not a market for alot of this stuff and it's
not sturdy enough for do it.
For example, just allegedly, 'cause Idon't know of this for sure, but water
bottles that you have, like plasticwater bottles can be used up to two
times when it's taken down and rebuilt.
After that, it just doesn't have theability to hold as a water bottle.
So that's a problem.
Let's look at some of thepeople who are speaking out.
So we have the spotlight on smallisland stays pushing for bold cuts.
(14:25):
So countries like Palau and Vanuatuargue for caps to protect fisheries and
tourism economies 'cause once you knowplastics get into the fish, it's not good.
Professor Richard Thompson warnsthat without caps reuse systems
and chemical controls, thetreaty risks to be irrelevant.
So without those controls in thetreaty, without having a lot of
regulations within there, we're havinga lot of the ability for small island
(14:47):
states as well as other countries tobe able to put in these into place.
The treaty's gonna be just a piece ofpaper and that's all it's gonna be.
And we do not want that.
It's like marine protected areas.
We don't want paper parks.
Right.
Now the health toll that happens.
So you got BPA, you got phthalates,you got pfas which disrupt hormones.
They impair fertility andthen they raise cancer risks.
All these things are causeddue to plastics, and they're
(15:08):
linked to cardiovascular disease,cancer, and endocrine impacts.
the us $1.5 trillion in health damagesto that 400,000 death tied to BPA.
That's crazy.
so the Leny study, calculatedcosts from reduced productivity
healthcare and premature death.
Now, a shocking note, microplasticsdetected in humans reproductive organs.
So in August, 2025, a study confirmedparticles in testicular tissue
(15:31):
potentially affected fertility.
So we're gonna have lowerfertility because of this.
so, you know, you wonder if this treatyis actually going to come into play.
At what point do we saywe need to put this in?
At what point do people stand up andsay, this is an important part to us.
The fact that it's affecting us andour children, microplastics have
been found in breast milk and infant.
(15:52):
That's how bad we are at the point.
So when kids are born and they haveformula, or they have breast milk
right from the get go, they havemicroplastics components in them,
and obviously that's not good.
there's also equity concerns.
So global south and developmentversus environmental justice.
So low income nations fearcaps could limit their economic
(16:13):
growth if funding is not provided.
So there's gonna have tobe some type of funding.
And then of course, you know,India argues for consensus
without stifling development.
So, India's position measures must alignwith sustainable development goals.
So they have to fit withinother legislative bodies or with
other international agreements.
All of this stuff is relatedto this plastic treaty, right?
(16:34):
There are different aspects in this, andI can't break it down into one episode.
I'm already getting long in this episode.
But it's something where if we havea system where we do not control our
plastic pollution, we are going to have
significant impacts on our healthof our bodies, as well as our
ecosystems, and we can't afford that.
(16:57):
We are in a position right now in theworld where things are really boiling and
to a point where it's getting really bad.
We need to have some controls.
We can't just let corporationsand companies continue to take
over and continue to drive.
economy over environmental health.
So we need to ensure that we arebuilding a stronger, more resilient
(17:19):
society by controlling the stuff that's,you know, can impede that and that is
microplastics and plastic pollution.
There are certain thingsthat you can do to help.
The first thing that I would do if youwere watching this before August 14th,
is go to your government representativeand say, we want a plastic treaty.
We want our country.
(17:40):
So for me, it'd be Canada tosign on to the plastic treaty.
And we wanted to make sure thatwe are protected from our health
concerns and our environmentalconcerns from plastic pollution.
That'd be the first thingthat I would like you to do.
You could also follow, like GreenpeacePlastic Pollution Coalition, surf
Rider Foundation that are runningcampaigns and volunteer on those
(18:01):
campaigns or help share thosecampaigns on social media and so forth.
Small actions that you can do isjust look around and eliminate the
single use plastics in your life.
There are a lot of single-useplastics in your life.
If you can eliminate where itfits within your lifestyle.
You will have to change a little bit.
You might have to change certaintype of products that you use.
(18:21):
You might have to change certain thingsthat you do, but you can do those small
changes 'cause they add up to large,large, you know, betterments of our world.
And so that's huge.
So just municipal bans onsingle-use plastics have cut
plastic bag litter by 70%.
That's huge right.
In certain municipalities, so that's good.
And the big thing is, is likewe all have a stake in this.
In the plastic crisis.
And so we should all act.
(18:41):
This is not just, oh, let theenvironmental NGOs do it or
let the governments handle it.
This is all of us.
This is all of us.
You look at your families, youlook at your kids, you look at your
parents, you look at your neighborsand so forth, your community, and
you can say, if we take this action.
We are bettering our society, we aremaking our society more resilient
towards plastic pollution becausethere'll be less plastic pollution.
(19:02):
So that's where I want to end it today.
I would love to hear, your suggestions.
What we can do, let meknow in the comments below.
If you're listening to this on YouTubeor hit me up with an email, go to speak
up for blue.com/contact, fill it out.
It goes right to my email.
Or you can hit me up on Instagram,DM me at how to protect the ocean.
It's at how to protect the ocean.
(19:23):
I wanna thank you so much forjoining me on today's episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean.
I'm your host Andrew Lewin from the truenor strong and free, have a great day.
We'll talk to you next timeand happy conservation.
Plastic pollution is a problem forall of us, not just the environment.
Studies have shown that plasticpollution has affected human health
in the cardiovascular system, inour tissues and other places that
will cause us to eventually die orhave harmful effects due to plastic
pollution bringing down in our system.
Plastic pollution isa fossil fuel product.
(00:22):
It is creating using petroleum.
It's a petroleum productand things need to change.
Certain countries like Canada are banningspecific single use plastics, but it's
being attacked in court and there's anappeal decision waiting as we speak.
Internationally, thereis a plastic treaty.
It was hoped to be finished in2024, and it's been worked on for
the last two to three years, butit still hasn't been completed.
(00:45):
Now, there are meetings as we speak inGeneva to be able to come to an agreement
to put a plastic treaty in place.
Will it be completed bythe end of this meeting?
I doubt it.
I hope so, but I highly doubt it.
But we're gonna talk about whyit's being held up, what you can do
about it, and all the informationrelated to it on this episode of the
How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
(01:06):
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to another exciting episodeof the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and thisis the podcast where you find out what's
happening with the ocean, how you canspeak up for the ocean, what you can do to
live for a better ocean by taking action.
And just to let you know, I love howyou're listening to this podcast.
I love how if you've been herefor a while and you continue
to listen, thank you so much.
(01:27):
And if you're just new here, welcome.
This is where I break down a lot of thingsthat are happening around the world with
plastic pollution, other ocean issues, andjust share some good news, some bad news,
and some just regular news of new specieslike I did last episode or a couple of
episodes ago where there was a new species
of manta rays that werejust discovered and named.
so fun stuff like that.
sometimes not so fun stuff like inthis case, but I break down what's
(01:48):
being done about it and how it'sgoing to affect you in the future.
So if you wanna know more and youwant to be more involved in ocean
related stuff, join the undertow.
It is a online community that I'mcreating with two other co-founders,
and we are creating this online app.
It's coming out soon.
We want you to join the waiting list.
Just go to speak up for blue.com/jointhe undertow and we'll give
(02:09):
you more information there.
Let's get started with the show.
Look, the plastic treaty has been talkedabout for the last couple of years.
I've had people on to talk about itfrom Oceana, from Monterey Bay Aquarium.
We've talked about the hopes.
We've talked about the challengesthat we faced coming into the plastic
treaty or during the differentmeetings in the plastic treaty.
There were four meetings that I rememberand that were done all over the world.
(02:31):
And they had people like nationscome in from all over the world.
They had industry, they had nonprofitorganizations, environmental NGOs and
other government departments that werecoming in to say, Hey, you know what?
We want a plastic treaty.
And then of course the industry'slike, Hey, you know what?
We don't really need a plastic treaty.
We don't need to limit plastic.
We need to build plastic.
'cause guess what?
(02:51):
30% of fossil fuel revenuescome from creating plastic.
Plastic is a petroleum product.
I'm not sure if you knew that.
That's something I didn't knowup until a couple of years ago.
But it's a petroleum product and thepetroleum companies rely on one third
of their business to create plastic.
So there's a reason for plastics tobe in, and that's a greedy reason.
(03:12):
Now plastics also provide somethingthat's very, you know, convenient for us.
You can have plastic straws, you canhave plastic utensils or plastic water
bottles, all these different types ofthings that we use in our regular day.
But then you go on and a lotof things are used in plastics.
I'm looking around in my office here.
I've got two monitors.
I've got all these things that are encasedin plastic, they're reusable plastic,
(03:33):
but eventually when they get discarded,which they will at some point in time.
They're not gonna break down easy.
Or when they do break down, it couldend up in the ocean or they could end
up in a landfill that's not reallyproperly discarded and managed.
And so that, here it comes a problemwhere we need better waste management
systems, even in developed countrieslike Canada and the US and other places.
And then we also need to be realabout, are all these things recyclable?
(03:57):
Like we're told, you know, they're told ifyou have plastic put in the recycling bin.
But we've known over thispodcast, we've been listening
to this over the last 10 years.
You know that the recycling is prettymuch a sham other than a few items that
are local to you that might be like, hey.
in your region or your county, they mightbe able to, you know, recycle specific
plastics, but for the most part, theydon't get recycled because the regular
(04:19):
old school coffee cups have this likewax on it that can't be separated.
So the actual material that is recyclablecan't be recycled because of that
wax on it that keeps the cup intact.
Now you have a number of just likeplastic cups that are single use that
just get thrown around, whether it beon the pavement or in a garbage or in
a recycling bin, but doesn't actuallyget recycled and ends up going to the
(04:41):
landfill, breaks down, chemicals breakdown, gets into our ecosystem, gets into
our environment, gets into our system.
There have been studies that show thatair molecules contain microplastics.
You get sea salt thatcontains microplastic.
It's pretty much everywhere.
It's in our systems.
You know, I have two girls who are inthe teenage age group and you know, I
can just imagine how much plastic they'vehad just in their environment over time.
(05:04):
And it's something that is veryscary from a health perspective.
You know, it's been scary for alot of conservationists before and
people who love the environment ofwhat it's doing to our environment.
But as we keep telling people,eventually it ends up harming us.
And this has been harming usfor a while, and the studies
are really just showing it.
And we've continued to allow forsingle use plastics and other plastics
(05:24):
to be used in our systems becauseit's convenient, because we want to
have that like rush of a lifestyle.
We don't slow down enough.
So if like we're thirsty, we're gonna goto a convenience store, we're gonna go to
a store and we're gonna get something ina plastic cup or in a plastic bottle, and
we're not gonna use our reusable bottles'cause they're heavy and they're a pain
in the butt to bring around and so forth.
People think like that.
(05:44):
That's just, you know how peoplethink whether we like it or not.
Or you can call them lazy, wecan call 'em all these names.
People think like that and there'ssometimes where you forget a water
bottle or you forget something,but you're really thirsty.
It's hot outside.
I don't know if you guys havehad a bad summer in terms of
no rain and just pure heat.
but here in Canada we haven't hadas bad as a lot of places around the
world that we're used to humidity, butwe've had humidity almost all summer.
(06:08):
Normally it's just for a few weeksor maybe the last bit of August, or
just a part in August, maybe a littlebit in July, but since the end of
June, we've had humidity up the wazoo.
and I'll tell you, like norain, very, very little rain.
We've had rain, but not much, not what'snecessary to keep everything moving.
You know, like keep our, ecosystemdoing well and keeping our plants
(06:28):
watered and, just our regularecosystem functioning going and
we're gonna pay for it eventually.
It's coming and we just don't know howit arrives, but we need some sort of
management, not only from a nationalperspective in each of our countries, but
also from an international perspective.
That's why the plastic treaty has beensuch an important part of creating
an international binding agreement.
(06:50):
You know, whether you think those areright or not, or people abide by them
or not, a binding agreement that allowscountries to use as a legislative tool
and a conservation tool to put in lawsthat will regulate and manage single
use plastics and plastics in general.
As an example, I wanted to go over whatCanada has done and I apologize for people
(07:11):
who have listened to this before becausepeople who have listened to this, I've
talked about this since it was announcedand since it was put in, in 2021.
But essentially in 2021, the federalgovernment in Canada designated plastics
as toxic under the CEPA in 2021.
So enabling regulatory measures like thatban on the certain single use plastics.
And then you have in 2023 thefederal court rules and designation
(07:33):
unreasonable that all plasticsare toxic and unconstitutional.
So it was challenged by chemicalcompanies and by fossil fuel companies,
like large, large corporate companiesthat make and create plastics.
They said, Hey, you know what?
We want to continue making this.
We don't necessarily have aproblem with the single use ban.
We just don't want all plasticsto be designated as toxic
(07:55):
'cause we don't believe that.
We think that's just a general typeof classification and it's not true.
And until you prove that, and this iswhat I love about industries, like
until you prove that it's bad for usand all plastics are bad for us, you
can't say that, that it's regulated.
And the reason why they put, youknow, plastic is toxic in general
it allows them to create these toolslike the single use ban plastics.
(08:17):
There's also a registry that's beingcreated, a plastics registry that
will follow the plastics throughthe supply chain of its creation and
where it goes and how it's bought andeverything, and how it's disposed of.
I assume there's gonna be some regulatorymatter coming in the future when they
analyze that registry to find out ofwho's responsible for disposing of
these and creating a better productfor these plastics and which plastics
(08:40):
are worse and which plastics arenot as bad, and all sorts of things.
So I'm sure that's coming and that'swhat these companies are worried about.
They don't really care about thesingle use plastics ban that Canada
has, but they do care the fact thatthere's this overarching classification
that plastics are toxic under theCanadian Environmental Protection Act.
So, they challenged it.
The federal court said, Hey, youknow what, you can't just do that's
(09:02):
overly broad and unconstitutional.
And said the government failed to showthat every such item poses a risk, which
I almost feel like it should be reversed.
I'm always of the mindsetthat it should be reversed.
If you have a company and youcreate a product, you should show
that it's not harmful to humans.
They should show it's notharmful to the environment.
If it is, you need to change it.
(09:22):
That's pretty much, it'll slow yourprocess down, but come up with a better
product and you really use innovation.
Anyway, in summer of 2024, the appealproceeded in around mid 2024 in June.
On June 25th, 2024, the FederalCourt of Appeal heard arguments
both for and against the validityof the toxic classification.
The federal government assertedthat all plastics, or at least those
(09:42):
that break down can cause harm,justifying the classification as
necessary for comprehensive regulation.
Environmental NGOs as wellas health groups stepped in.
The Coalition of Health and environmentalgroups like the Davis Suzuki Foundation,
Greenpeace Canada, as well as othersintervene in support of the government's
position saying that, the classificationthat all plastics toxic is necessary
for comprehensive regulation.
(10:04):
that's always good.
And then the decision forthe appeal is still pending.
As of January 2025 and from whatI've looked up, we have not been
able to see what has come out.
And if you do know if I missedit somehow, please let me know if
there's been a decision or not.
It is something that, youknow, we're waiting on.
But what's nice is that the court granteda stay so that the regulation on single
use plastic ban can still go through.
(10:26):
What I worry about is that all otherregulations that have been created for
this or we're in the process of beingcreated has pretty much put a pause on it.
'cause government doesn't wanna waste anytype of work or money on something that
may or may not be able to go through.
I think they should still be workingon it personally but I can see a lot of
people saying like, why are you doingthis when at some point you're not gonna
(10:47):
wanna do that or it might not be validand you might not be able to do it.
So, I think that's probably whatthe holdup of some of the other
regulations that are coming out.
But it's nice to have.
It's nice that some of thesecountries like Canada are
actually putting it through.
I think Costa Rica also bannedsingle use plastics and then
some other countries as well.
That's a huge feat.
But as we speak now in Augustof 2025, if you're listening to
(11:09):
this until August 14th, 2025.
In Geneva, there is the Ink5.2 negotiations underway.
So this is the plastic treaty.
So the fifth round is split into twosessions due to the slow progress.
So the current talks run untilAugust 14th, but there's tension.
There's about 200 industrylobbyists in the room.
(11:30):
They are there to essentially slow downthe process or essentially just get in
its way, and start to put in certaincaveats and exceptions that allow their
companies that they represent to have
these exceptions, and they can dopretty much whatever you want, but the
guardian reports, industry delegatesoutnumber the scientists at Geneva
talks and raising transparency concerns.
(11:52):
So they're worried about what'sbeen happening and how once private
companies get involved that are nottransparent and that have sort of
a devious or nefarious sort of act
when they go there, they want to stopthis plastic treaty from going on.
Let's be honest.
All these organizations, thesecorporations and stuff, they
don't want, like the industry,they do not want this to happen.
It's gonna impede ontheir progress for money.
(12:13):
It's gonna impede on their progressfor creating products for other people.
The plastic treaty is gonna slowdown their growth essentially,
and that's what they want.
But you know, it's pretty big.
Now, small island nations in the EUare pushing for caps on the number
of plastic products that can be made.
Oil producing countries preferwaste management focus instead.
And so instead of banning or puttingcaps or a quota on the amount of plastic
(12:36):
products that can come out, oil producingcountries prefer waste management focus.
That's a worrisome because it's kind oflike the climate change, you know, oil
producing companies depending on who'sin charge of the government want to use
carbon capture, which hasn't really beenproven to work efficiently, as they say.
And so they abandon all other ways.
They're saying, no, we can actually justinnovate our way out of it and we can
(12:57):
create these carbon capture services,and then we can capture all the carbon.
Well, the same thing here.
Well, we can recycle and we can,you know, manage our waste better.
But even in countries like Canadaand the US and other countries.
You know, we've known in the pastthat we've actually taken a lot of
our recyclable material and we'veshifted off to small island states.
So they have to dispose of it.
Now, we pay for them to dispose it, butthen they don't really dispose of it.
(13:20):
And when in a report came out saying 80%of the plastic pollution that's happening
is happening in these small islandstates, people are like, well, why are
these small island states doing this?
You know, larger developed statessaying, Hey, you know what?
We're gonna just ship our stuff.
You guys can take care of it.
We'll just pay you money.
Outta sight outta mind.
Well, that doesn't help.
Right?
That didn't help at all.
It vilified these small island stateswhen we didn't know what was happening.
(13:42):
And now look what happens.
We know that this wholerecycling game is just garbage.
It was allegedly created by the chemicalindustry, and fossil food industry
to say, Hey, you know what, yeah,we're gonna create this stuff, but
it's actually recyclable so you canreuse it over and over and over again.
And we'll just create different products.
We know that unless it has amarket, it costs money to break
it down, to create and somebodyhas to purchase the materials.
(14:03):
there's not a market for alot of this stuff and it's
not sturdy enough for do it.
For example, just allegedly, 'cause Idon't know of this for sure, but water
bottles that you have, like plasticwater bottles can be used up to two
times when it's taken down and rebuilt.
After that, it just doesn't have theability to hold as a water bottle.
So that's a problem.
Let's look at some of thepeople who are speaking out.
So we have the spotlight on smallisland stays pushing for bold cuts.
(14:25):
So countries like Palau and Vanuatuargue for caps to protect fisheries and
tourism economies 'cause once you knowplastics get into the fish, it's not good.
Professor Richard Thompson warnsthat without caps reuse systems
and chemical controls, thetreaty risks to be irrelevant.
So without those controls in thetreaty, without having a lot of
regulations within there, we're havinga lot of the ability for small island
(14:47):
states as well as other countries tobe able to put in these into place.
The treaty's gonna be just a piece ofpaper and that's all it's gonna be.
And we do not want that.
It's like marine protected areas.
We don't want paper parks.
Right.
Now the health toll that happens.
So you got BPA, you got phthalates,you got pfas which disrupt hormones.
They impair fertility andthen they raise cancer risks.
All these things are causeddue to plastics, and they're
(15:08):
linked to cardiovascular disease,cancer, and endocrine impacts.
the us $1.5 trillion in health damagesto that 400,000 death tied to BPA.
That's crazy.
so the Leny study, calculatedcosts from reduced productivity
healthcare and premature death.
Now, a shocking note, microplasticsdetected in humans reproductive organs.
So in August, 2025, a study confirmedparticles in testicular tissue
(15:31):
potentially affected fertility.
So we're gonna have lowerfertility because of this.
so, you know, you wonder if this treatyis actually going to come into play.
At what point do we saywe need to put this in?
At what point do people stand up andsay, this is an important part to us.
The fact that it's affecting us andour children, microplastics have
been found in breast milk and infant.
(15:52):
That's how bad we are at the point.
So when kids are born and they haveformula, or they have breast milk
right from the get go, they havemicroplastics components in them,
and obviously that's not good.
there's also equity concerns.
So global south and developmentversus environmental justice.
So low income nations fearcaps could limit their economic
(16:13):
growth if funding is not provided.
So there's gonna have tobe some type of funding.
And then of course, you know,India argues for consensus
without stifling development.
So, India's position measures must alignwith sustainable development goals.
So they have to fit withinother legislative bodies or with
other international agreements.
All of this stuff is relatedto this plastic treaty, right?
(16:34):
There are different aspects in this, andI can't break it down into one episode.
I'm already getting long in this episode.
But it's something where if we havea system where we do not control our
plastic pollution, we are going to have
significant impacts on our healthof our bodies, as well as our
ecosystems, and we can't afford that.
(16:57):
We are in a position right now in theworld where things are really boiling and
to a point where it's getting really bad.
We need to have some controls.
We can't just let corporationsand companies continue to take
over and continue to drive.
economy over environmental health.
So we need to ensure that we arebuilding a stronger, more resilient
(17:19):
society by controlling the stuff that's,you know, can impede that and that is
microplastics and plastic pollution.
There are certain thingsthat you can do to help.
The first thing that I would do if youwere watching this before August 14th,
is go to your government representativeand say, we want a plastic treaty.
We want our country.
(17:40):
So for me, it'd be Canada tosign on to the plastic treaty.
And we wanted to make sure thatwe are protected from our health
concerns and our environmentalconcerns from plastic pollution.
That'd be the first thingthat I would like you to do.
You could also follow, like GreenpeacePlastic Pollution Coalition, surf
Rider Foundation that are runningcampaigns and volunteer on those
(18:01):
campaigns or help share thosecampaigns on social media and so forth.
Small actions that you can do isjust look around and eliminate the
single use plastics in your life.
There are a lot of single-useplastics in your life.
If you can eliminate where itfits within your lifestyle.
You will have to change a little bit.
You might have to change certaintype of products that you use.
(18:21):
You might have to change certain thingsthat you do, but you can do those small
changes 'cause they add up to large,large, you know, betterments of our world.
And so that's huge.
So just municipal bans onsingle-use plastics have cut
plastic bag litter by 70%.
That's huge right.
In certain municipalities, so that's good.
And the big thing is, is likewe all have a stake in this.
In the plastic crisis.
And so we should all act.
(18:41):
This is not just, oh, let theenvironmental NGOs do it or
let the governments handle it.
This is all of us.
This is all of us.
You look at your families, youlook at your kids, you look at your
parents, you look at your neighborsand so forth, your community, and
you can say, if we take this action.
We are bettering our society, we aremaking our society more resilient
towards plastic pollution becausethere'll be less plastic pollution.
(19:02):
So that's where I want to end it today.
I would love to hear, your suggestions.
What we can do, let meknow in the comments below.
If you're listening to this on YouTubeor hit me up with an email, go to speak
up for blue.com/contact, fill it out.
It goes right to my email.
Or you can hit me up on Instagram,DM me at how to protect the ocean.
It's at how to protect the ocean.
(19:23):
I wanna thank you so much forjoining me on today's episode
of the How to Protect the Ocean.
I'm your host Andrew Lewin from the truenor strong and free, have a great day.
We'll talk to you next timeand happy conservation.
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