August 29, 2025 • 55 mins
Starting an environmental nonprofit often begins with a vision and the determination to make a difference, but it also comes with challenges in funding, community support, and long-term sustainability. In this episode of How to Protect the Ocean, Bart Oor and Sander Brienen share the story of how they created Balean, a platform designed to help independent projects and nonprofits access the support they need to thrive.
Independent changemakers are reshaping how conservation work is done. Bart and Sander explain the obstacles they faced, how collaboration shaped their journey, and why Balean is launching in October as a dedicated space to fund and grow independent ocean initiatives. If you’re passionate about starting your own project or nonprofit, this conversation provides both inspiration and practical advice.
Website: https://www.balean.org/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I have a special episode for you today.
We have Bart Orr and Sonder Brennan onthe podcast today to talk about Bion.
If you remember correctly, Bart wason the podcast a number of months
ago talking about collaboration.
Today we're gonna be talking abouttheir founder story and how they
founded Bion and what to expectwhen they launched in October.
(00:20):
This is a great platform.
If you are somebody who is independentor you have an independent project
and you're looking for funding,and you're looking for some.
Report.
Just full disclosure, I am a part of this.
I'm one of their early adopters and I'vebeen working with them in collaboration
to bring awareness of how people workindependently and how they need funding
and how they need that kind of support.
So we're gonna talk about thaton today's episode of the How
(00:42):
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to another exciting episodeof the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and thisis the podcast where you find out what's
happening with the ocean, how you couldspeak up for the ocean, what you can do to
live for a better ocean by taking action.
On today's episode, we havetwo very special guests.
We have Bart or and Saunders Brennan,who are here to talk about their
(01:05):
founder story in how they foundedBallion, how they met as neighbors.
We're gonna talk about what they do forliving before this and how they pivoted
and how they wanted to really do somethingthat mattered in the crux of things.
They both are entrepreneurs and theyare very passionate about the ocean,
and they looked at the ocean, they said.
(01:25):
What can we do to help?
We want to help.
And that's what they do, and that'swhat they're doing right now, is they're
building a platform to help independentprojects, independent individuals who
want to do something to help the ocean,and they're going to help them get
funding and provide support for them.
So it's gonna be a great platformthat I want people to know
about, especially you guys.
So let's get into it.
(01:46):
Here's the interviewwith Bardo and Sonder.
Brennan.
Enjoy the interview and I'll talk to you.
After.
Hey Bart.
Hey Sander.
Welcome to the How toProtect the Ocean Podcast.
Are you ready to talkabout marine conservation?
Definitely.
So yeah, bring it home.
Right on.
This is gonna be a lot of fun.
Uh, Bart, you've beenon the podcast before.
We talked about collaboration.
(02:06):
That was a big, uh,part of that discussion.
And today we're gonna be talking about.
Bian.
We, we talked a little bit about Bionlast time, but we're really gonna
go into the founder's story of Bium.
We have Bart, we have Sonder here.
You guys are the founders, andwe're gonna hear about what you
are hoping to accomplish with Bian.
We're gonna find out your backgrounds.
We're gonna find out, you know,the, the platform, uh, how
(02:26):
this is all gonna work out.
It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Uh, this is gonna be something that I'vebeen looking forward to for, for a long
time, so I can't wait to get into it.
Awesome.
But before we do.
Why don't we just start off gettingto know you guys a little bit?
Um, sand.
Let's start with you.
Since this is the firsttime on the podcast.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Once you just let us know,let the audience know, uh,
who you are and what you do.
Yeah, thanks, uh, for having me.
(02:46):
Uh, I'm Sanda, I'm, uh, from theNetherlands, like both of course.
Um, I'm the IT guy, so,uh, is gonna be a platform.
I'm, I'm the guy to, togo to in terms of it.
So I've worked is in itin like 20 years or so.
Um.
Having done all kinds of roles and, uh,in the, in the recent times, uh, I sort
(03:11):
of got sick of all the money making allthe commercial stuff and, uh, decided
to, uh, to do a third career switch.
Third, a little pivot, another pivot.
Uh, that, that is my third pivot.
So I started like really deep dive it.
Then I went more into consultancy.
So that was the first pivot.
Gotcha.
And then, uh, that went more inconsultancy versus a combination
(03:36):
in, um, how you say it, uh, uh,business development, so to say.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
That pivoted into a salesleadership role and now, uh,
I'm a full, full entrepreneur.
Right on.
I love that.
I love that.
That's quite the, uh, that'squite the evolution, which we'll
dive into to just a second.
Uh, Bart, you've beenon the podcast before.
Why don't you remind people ofwho you are and what you do?
(03:59):
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, yeah.
Bart, or, um, the, together with Sander,I am one of the co-founders for, uh, for
Ballium, and we are ocean entrepreneurs.
And, uh, what we do is, uh,we bring people together.
Uh, we have a community of oceanlovers, ocean impact makers, and
anyone who cares about the oceanand, uh, wants to feel like.
I can contribute, I can make a,I can make a difference, and, uh,
(04:22):
I have an idea or I want to help.
That's what we do.
And where Sandler is the ITperson, I am not the IT person.
I have no clue where to start.
But what I really like is, uh,yeah, I, I, I like collaboration.
I like bringing people together.
I like, um, um.
Projects I like, uh, uh, havinglong-term views and big visions.
(04:44):
Uh, that's where I really thrive.
Uh, but also, uh, that gives me energyand that's where Valion is also in,
uh, uh, especially now in the, thecurrent phases where things are really,
really kicking off, uh, where we are.
Uh, the, the ball is rolling.
Um, yeah, we feel super excited aboutwhere we're heading, uh, towards
the launch of our bion platformwhere all Ocean impact initiatives.
(05:07):
Ocean storytellers and impactmakers come together and for any
individual to, to join and participateand be part of the solution.
That's what we do.
Yeah.
I love that.
And then we're gonna dive into that,uh, in just a moment on today's episode.
But I, I wanna go back a little bitand, and dive into your, to your,
you know, the beginnings, you know?
(05:27):
Mm-hmm.
Um, it's, it's a very interestingstory how you guys came together.
Um, but, but before youguys knew each other, um.
Uh, and because of physicalproximity, I think, which we'll
get into in just a moment.
Um, so Sandra, you mentioned,you know, you were doing it.
Were you ever.
You know, interested, you guys are fromthe Netherlands, so you, you know, you're,
(05:49):
you're surrounded by, by, by water.
Did you grow up around the water?
Did you grow up more inland?
Like how did the ocean impact your life?
Or, or did it at allat that, at that point?
Like at a young age oras you were growing up?
Yeah, so first of all I was grown upmore inland, so not really at the coast.
Um Gotcha.
But at age 20 or so, I went for a longtrip to Australia and New Zealand.
(06:14):
And that's where, um, yeah, I, I reallylove nature in general, but, uh, I, I
went diving on the Great Barrier Reef.
That was an amazing experience.
Then I went to New Zealand whereyou have this huge national park.
It's, it's incrediblylarge with a lot of rain.
The Millford South, I'mnot sure if you know it.
(06:35):
And, uh, yeah, that's also like a, a, themost beautiful area in the world, I think.
So people that went to Norwayin, in in Europe will know a
little bit how it would look.
It's, it's a bit like a furat inNorway, that that's, that's magnificent.
And, um, so that's whereI started loving it.
Um, uh, later in my life, I alsowent to islands, uh, in, in the
Netherlands often for vacations.
(06:58):
Uh, started doing sailingand, and things like that.
So I have my sale, um, how it's called.
License or so like a driving license,but then for sailboats, yeah.
Nice, nice.
Yeah.
So yeah, slowly it's in my, in my youngeryears, not, but in, in, in the, in my
later ages, uh, in my twenties, so tosay, I really got this, this love for, for
(07:20):
coastal areas, uh, sea water in general.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That started, it's, it's so funny how,like, you know, I, I'm surrounded,
I live in Ontario, Canada, andI'm surrounded by the Great Lakes.
Yeah.
A lot of times growing up, all youthink about is going elsewhere for
water, like for, you know, for theactual ocean, not, not what we call the
Sweetwater Ocean here in the Great Lakes.
(07:42):
Oh yeah.
But, um, you know, you, you go tothese beautiful places, Australia, New
Zealand, like the Caribbean, and, and.
And down in like the south,like in the Mediterranean, all
these beautiful tropical places.
But we have these wonderful coastlinesdefinitely just around our own, back in
our own, you know, quote unquote backyard.
And, you know, you can do sailingand you can do scuba diving
(08:02):
and you can do snorkeling.
Might be a little cooler in thewater, but it's still, uh, you
know, beautiful and picturesque.
And, and we just don't realize ituntil maybe we're, we're adults.
Like, like sonder, when you startto go on vacations to these.
So these, uh, you know, islands in theNetherlands, which, you know, I would
imagine would be spectacular views.
Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah.
Um, some nice water with alot of wind I'm sure as well.
(08:22):
Uh, to, for good, for great for sailing.
Yeah.
Uh, which, which is, which is wonderful.
Yeah.
Um, and I think that's, I think that'sreally interesting to, to get that
appreciation for the ocean as you growup and you're able to get some, a little
bit of money to travel and, and to,to move out, like, you know, in your
twenties and, and thirties and so forth.
And I think that's, that's really great.
Now, you, you chose.
(08:43):
You know, the life of an ITperson, you know, an IT guy.
And so the, the first job, when you saidyou were like deep into it, did you work
for, you know, a company where you werethat IT person, you're setting up the
computers, you're looking at the networks.
Oh, you're looking at security.
Was that the kind of ityou were entirely not.
Oh, okay.
That would, what were you doing?
(09:05):
No, I, I, in my, uh, time I wasstudying, I, I worked for an organization
where you had exactly that role andI. Did a bit of that, but that was
definitely not my cup of the, uh, right.
I went for a big integrator and, uh,in that organization I did projects for
large organizations where I programmed,um, computer systems and think about,
(09:30):
for example, you have, nowadays youhave this banking app on your phone.
Mm-hmm.
Things like that.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
So you're like creating Yeah.
But then really like backendsystems, like mm-hmm.
Really large backend systems.
Uh, uh, we, we build those things.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
He, he still repairs myiPad if I mess up with it.
(09:51):
I mean, he tells he doesn'tdo that, but he can, he can.
I, I, he can still, he can stilldo that to a certain extent.
I can.
Uh, there is a limitation though,uh, with, with Windows, I don't
go, go well with Windows, butfor all the rest I'm good.
And, uh, so yeah, no, duly noted.
Yeah.
But, uh, duly noted.
But I mean that like.
(10:11):
That's pretty cool that you, you know,you, you are part of these teams that
create like the backend because Ithink a lot of people don't really
understand, we see the front end ofa lot of these banking apps and Yeah.
That we know and trust and, and knowthat they're secure to handle our money.
And, and I know, I know when likemobile banking came out for me.
You know, you don't trustit at the beginning.
You're just like, well, hold on a second.
Like, this is not somethingthat's gonna work.
(10:33):
But it works out so well becauseof people like yourself, you know,
around the world that are workingon these, these backend systems.
It's, it's like a pretty important thing.
It's like the unsung heroes of modern day.
You know, banking and, andusing mobile apps and stuff.
'cause we don't realize it.
We used to see the front, we just seethe user interface and that's all we
care about, you know, as, as we use it.
Right.
And, and so I think it's, uh, it'skind of nice that you got to be
(10:54):
a part of that, you know, and haslike meaning towards people's lives.
Yeah.
I mean, that's gotta be a, is thata big driver for you when you work
on something like when you look likeevery time you've done pivoting?
Yeah.
Right.
You mentioned that you've donepivoting before, like from the, the.
The work that you were doing, working onthese backend systems and then going into
consultancy, what was the driver to move?
(11:15):
Was it just something different or whatwas that, that quest you wanted to get?
Yeah, so it, that startedin my youth, I must say.
So I, my youth, I start playing with my,with the computer that we had at home.
And that slowly became sortof my computer, although
it was in fact my parents.
Right?
Right.
But I was doing so much with it.
And also I knew a lot morethan, than, uh, both my parents.
(11:37):
So they started also asking me things.
And, and that's also you mentioned, okay.
It it's creating, yeah.
It, it's creating.
So I, I remember a situation wheremy, my dad was asking me, uh, to
build something as you had a problem.
And he was describing it to me,and then I had to build it for
him in, I, I think it was in, in.
In, in batch script, in, uh, in, um,uh, MS. Dos back then, long time ago.
(12:00):
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but yeah, remember those days, but,but taking in his question, uh, building
something and then handing it back andgetting the feedback, oh, this is great.
You, you've done it.
Uh, very good.
This is exactly what I wanted.
That was my driver.
So exactly.
Translating the question intosomething workable and then see
(12:21):
people using that, that's, that'sdefinitely something I, I love to do.
That's also why I went for that.
Also because, yeah, I did somuch with computers already.
It was sort of logical follow upto go, uh, for sure study that.
And then at some point, yeah, theswitch to consultancy, um, is also
because that helped me go muchmore in front of the customer.
(12:43):
I was already having a, a customerfacing role, but that really got
me into, okay, now you go intothe customer here, his problem,
and then, uh, give him a solution.
And yeah.
Um, later on I went for customer success,which is sort of a, a sales role.
Uh, and the same thing, help the customerimprove, help the customer be successful,
and, and that's, uh, being successful.
(13:04):
That's what really the,the, the big drive.
Yeah, that's interesting.
'cause like I, my day job, I workas a customer success person.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah.
We, we talked about this before.
Yeah.
Uh, which is, which is great.
Uh, so that, yeah.
That's amazing.
It's such a, uh, must havebeen quite the change.
Uh, were there some challenges that youhad going from, you know, working in
the back end to be more customer facing?
(13:27):
Of course you have to learn,uh, I mean if you, if you've
ever worked with developers.
They tend to be the shy people.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, yeah, going into a publicor a customer facing role, you
have to be a lot more proactive.
You have to be a lot more communicative.
Um mm-hmm.
Yeah.
In the beginning you had some struggles,but then I had also good people or make
(13:51):
good mentors That helped me improve.
That helped me see, uh, what to changeand what, what to improve, um, right.
Yeah.
And, and, and yeah.
Now from there, and.
That, that's, that's really helpedme in, in, in getting better in it.
And I must say, um, I have this tendencyof, of seeing the way forward very easily.
(14:13):
So people tell me, and thensome, it already starts going
round and round in my hand.
Okay, this could be the solution.
And I immediately sub see a path forward.
Uh, but I also see from,from limited context.
Okay.
But this is the situation.
You have other organizations withsimilar situations, so it must be this.
And then you tell thosepeople and then they got, wow.
(14:35):
That's exactly the problem.
But that's because there were so manyorganizations already before them that.
Yeah, it's then easy.
Yeah, that makes it easy.
So also experience, uh, the yearsworking in there, uh, helped in
making, being successful in that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
Now going from that, you're getting,you know, you have this, this technical
(14:56):
background that you've been buildingover these years, not only from a
backend perspective and behind thescenes perspective, but now you're
getting into customer facing, soyou're dealing more with customers
and more with people facing it.
Now you become an entrepreneur.
Yes.
You know, what, what made was is, is bianyour first go at being an entrepreneur
or is this is, I mean, obviouslyyou're, you have your own consultancy.
(15:19):
That's, that's anentrepreneurial kind of venture.
But was bian your next,uh, your next leap I guess?
Yeah, and, and going like fullyentrepreneurial at Bion, I suppose,
and, and the, the organizationbehind it is my first leap.
Uh, in a previous role I did, um.
Become responsible for a larger team andalso responsible for profit and loss.
(15:41):
So that makes you already a kindof entrepreneur, but mm-hmm.
Um, I was always under the hood ofsomething else, so I was always.
Working for larger organization,uh, but with a profit and
loss responsibility and yeah.
Now I'm, I'm com completely on my own.
Yeah.
Now we have our own assetson the table, right?
(16:03):
Yeah.
Balance suddenly.
But it's also the freedom.
I mean, uh, I am very securein it nowadays, in, in moving
forward and, and, and yeah, I'menjoying the freedom as well.
Yeah, you were and youwere ready for that.
Yeah.
'cause come like, like with, with freedomalso comes a lot more responsibility.
Yes.
Right?
(16:23):
And, and there's a lot more, um.
I guess there's a lot more risk when itcome, when you're, you know, you, you move
fully as an entrepreneur and, and that,that takes a lot of guts to do that move.
Yeah.
But also to, uh, to just be like, yeah,no, I'm responsible for this risk.
So it's like it's on me.
Yeah.
It's on Bart.
Like it's on us, like, asa team to, to move forward.
Exactly.
(16:43):
And I think that takes some time toevolve as a business person, as you
have to get into that, as someonewho, who also had had to go through
that in, in certain times of my life.
Yeah.
I know there's one time whereI was not ready and then I
went back to the workforce.
So, you know, you, you kind of evolveas you, as you get, and you get more
comfortable with that, that type of risk.
If, if you feel that the risks arereally pressing you down and making you
(17:04):
reluctant and, and mm-hmm tired, anxiety,then, then that's not the right time.
Then it's better to move back.
If the risk is just okay, achallenge to change and to move
forward with, then you're good.
Then you're good.
Yeah, absolutely.
I completely agree.
Do something different, right?
It can also be really if the wallscome towards you, in that sense mm-hmm.
(17:26):
It's in, in a way, it's alsoa route you have to travel.
You, you, you cannot help it.
Uh, so yeah, I, I really believethat, uh, entrepreneurial mindset
is something you, uh, you.
It's, it's, it doesn't change fromone day to the other, uh, when you,
uh, uh, register at the Chamber ofCommerce, but it's more like something
(17:47):
that has always been there, right?
Yes.
Uh, you have always have your thoughts.
Yeah.
And it can be within an organizationor your own organization or in
our case, uh, uh, as two founders.
Uh, and then you need todo things together, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
And Sandra, even you, with yourbackground as, you know, as a IT
guy, but also like a developer,you're, you're into problem solving.
And that's essentially whatan entrepreneur can do.
(18:09):
So you, you do, you have thebackground, it's just a matter of
like putting in the context of whatyou want to, what you wanna work on.
And my, my pitfall is,oh, sorry, go ahead.
Oh, sorry.
And my, my pitfall is that I. I startdoing, but I don't finish doing.
Ah, yeah, you tell me now.
Well, that's just good to havea co-founder and someone to
help you, like stay on track.
(18:30):
I that I, I completely understand.
'cause I'm definitely, I'm,I'm definitely that way.
And, and, and Bart you know, last timeyou were on the, on the podcast, we got
a little bit of a, of, of a, a backgroundon you, but just to remind people like.
Where did you start before?
Like how did you end up being, youknow, a co-founder with, with Sonder?
With Bian?
Like what was your evolution, uh, to goinginto like the, the, the working world?
(18:52):
Yeah, well, I, I, I was, Iwas also a technical guy.
I moved gradually from consumer goods,uh, as an engineer, uh, towards, uh,
business development and strategy.
And from there I startedlonging for purpose and impact.
Uh, what does it bring if youcreate stuff that is already there
and you create just more stuff?
And that was.
I, I just mentioned how, how it feels likewhen the walls are coming towards you and
(19:18):
you and, and you feel like you're limited.
Yeah.
This was my moment.
I decided, okay, now, now it'sreally time to make a change.
Um, what if we do something that's,is not just there to make money or
to, with being an entrepreneur forthe sake of being an an entrepreneur,
but more like, how can we.
Making a difference and Right.
(19:39):
And this making a difference.
That's something that's, uh, triggeredsomething a couple of years back already.
Uh, yeah, it was already there.
The spark.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, when you, when youstart thinking about something, uh,
it, it keeps you awake at night.
Uh, you, you are thinkingabout it all the time.
You're in all situations,all opportunities.
(19:59):
You see, you see the different light.
And, and, and that's what's reallytriggered it and, and also made,
uh, yeah, made a difference, uh,compared to, uh, how I used to be.
Right?
Uh, yeah.
If there was even a bar from thepast and a bar from the future,
uh, if there is such a thing.
Um, well, I mean, that's, that'sthe, that's the beauty about, you
know, evolving, you know, as, asa human being, but like you have.
(20:22):
These specific moments within your lifethat, that, whether it be having kids or
whether it be, you know, looking at, atnature and how it's changing that Yeah.
That can make you pivot and make youswitch and, and sometimes it's just
like, oh, I want something different.
And I want to be just like Saunders,like I want to go into more
customer facing roles and I wantto go into, you know, more roles
(20:44):
where I have more control over the.
Over the product and, and,and helping get through this.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
But for you guys, it's for the two of you.
It's interesting, you guys, whenfounders meet, a lot of times
it's at like, maybe mm-hmm.
At, um, uh, at a meeting, you know, of,of the, of the great minds and business
leaders or you, you meet at a, um, uh,like a, who knows, like a convention
(21:07):
or a conference or things like that.
You do have a, a, a different background.
You, you actuallyphysically like neighbors.
You, you live across thestreet from each other, right?
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Right, right there.
Yeah.
So, so how did that, how did this,like friendship, 'cause I assume it,
it, it started off as a friendship.
How did that friendship, like how, howmany years back have you been living
across the street from each other?
(21:27):
Ah, I, I, I didn't, Ididn't really count right.
I, we moved in, when didyou start living here?
Moved, uh, in here in 2021.
Um, mid 2021.
So that's about, uh, fourand a half years now.
Yep.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I was there one and a half year before.
Okay.
Okay.
So, okay.
So both new to the neighborhood.
(21:47):
Pretty new to, but yeah, exactly.
And we now, we now, um, know eachother about four, four and a half
years then, and, uh, now as oppositeneighbors, uh, you, uh, meet each
other at the street, uh, drink acoffee together every now and then.
And yeah, there's this other sort of.
Um, hobby that we haveboth have, which is dogs.
(22:09):
Ah, dogs always bring people together.
Yes.
Dogs will always bring people together.
So yeah, they're they're, they'rethe other co-founding team.
They're the other co-founding team.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Totally.
Yeah.
But it, what is really interestingis that, uh, sometimes you search
the world for finding the right.
Co-founder or mm-hmm.
Entrepreneurial partner, business partner.
(22:31):
You, you reach out to people and, andmany of them say, ah, well I really love
your idea, but I just got this new job.
Or, Hmm.
I like what you're doing, but, Hmm.
Yeah, I'm a little bitshort on money or, yeah.
Uh, my family cannot help, uh, cannotwork, cannot support me, and, and.
And, and in our case, um, well, it justhappens to live across the street, right?
(22:52):
Yes.
It can also be verycoincidental in that sense.
Definitely.
Yeah.
And, and, and during one of thesewalks, it, it really started resonating.
Sometimes you feel like, okay,now we're onto something and
this might actually work.
Um, yes.
And here we are, and then nowwe're suddenly in this journey.
Exactly.
That, that's exactly the point.
But this might actually work.
(23:14):
This, this, that's also why I am.
Hooked on, on his, uh, idea because Iwas already in my mind thinking about,
uh, okay, what can I do to make moreimpact to, to be more purposeful?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, my wife, she's workingin nature conservation in
general and more coastal areas.
Okay.
But, uh, uh, doing allother things as well.
(23:34):
And they have all this research data they,they sit on, and that's an immense amount.
Yes, but it's all living inExcel sheets and that's insane.
Yes, that's insane.
It really blows my mind to havelike thousands and thousands
of, of lines in an Excel sheet.
I'm laughing because I, I've been there,you know, as, as a scientist, um, who
(23:58):
used to love Excel, but also as a databasemanager, like a gi s database manager.
He used to be like, are you kidding me?
Like, how many more Excel sheetsdo you need to put into this?
Like, we should be putting this into yes.
A database.
Like, especially like even at,like, even to a point, I don't
know, does she work, does your wifework for a government or does she
work for a nonprofit organization?
Uh, it's also not, it's a commercialorganization, but that organization works
(24:21):
for a lot for a government organization.
Okay.
Well, what, what I find, find,I used to work for federal
government here in Canada and like.
All of our stuff was on Excelsheets, like on personal computers.
And as you know, that, like as anIT guy that must give you stress
beyond stress because all that datacould be lost if that computer,
you know, goes, you know, gets wet.
Or you're looking at, at, ataquatic biologists who take their
(24:44):
computers everywhere and don'ttreat 'em properly and stuff.
And I, we used to just be like, we needto grab that data and put 'em on like a
central database so we don't lose this.
The people's data.
You know, you can't lose the Exactly.
But, and you should, but Scientist,we love our Excel sheets.
Yeah.
We love our, I know, but it's not justlosing, but it also making it accessible.
But because hundred percent Excelsheet, it's, it's, it crashes all
(25:05):
the time with those large data sets.
Yeah.
It's insane.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can already, you can already, youcan already hear it in Sandra's voice.
He's just like, wait a minute.
This is, there's a lot ofstress going on in this.
So this is the Yeah.
This is the, also the,the trigger that I needed.
Right.
I was the one who wasn'teven aware of these risks.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and, uh, what,what might go wrong.
Right.
(25:25):
And, but yeah, sometimesit, it, it needs to.
Resonate and, and your, your passionfor, okay, how can we optimize,
how can we do things better?
That was something that's,um, yeah, there's the overlap.
Yeah.
Uh, how can we make a differenceand how can we do things better?
Yeah, but what if we combine forces?
What if we join forces?
Right.
That that's, that, that's, yeah.
That's basically the background or Yeah.
(25:47):
The, the, the, the energy, uh,system behind our collaboration, eh?
Yes.
Yeah.
And I, and I love that I, I'm lookingon the, the website and on your founder
story page, you have like, yeah.
You know the question, what if wecould do something that truly mattered?
And I feel like, yeah.
I feel like everybody wants to answerthat question at some point in their
life, but that's also a very big question.
There's so many different ways Yeah.
(26:08):
That you can go to answer thatquestion and still be legitimate
and still, you know, you know,do something that truly matters.
How did it go from let's dosomething that truly mattered?
What if we could do somethingthat truly mattered to let's
help, you know, help people.
Let's help.
People that are trying to help the ocean.
(26:29):
Yeah.
How did it, how did that step, thatseems to be like a, a big step.
Yeah.
But it's also a, a, an evolution, right?
So that didn't start,of course, immediately.
So first of all, I, I remember barcoming to me reluctantly with this idea.
I have this idea and can you have a, an, alook at it, maybe give you opinion about.
If it would work or not, andif it's even even doable.
(26:50):
And then mm-hmm.
He started explaining me and, andimmediately, as I said earlier,
things started going round andround and seeing solutions, but also
opportunities beyond what he was, uh,explaining, uh, around data collection.
And so also we started alsobrainstorming and, and all the ideas
came and came and more ideas came.
Um, uh, and um, I think it started with.
(27:15):
A simple, okay.
Uh, let, let's take a piece of oceanand have people adopt it, so to say.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, also with the idea, okay,we are, uh, a mechanical engineer
and a, a computer engineer.
What can a mechanical engineerand a computer engineer do to
improve ocean conservation?
(27:35):
I mean, I'm not, I can divea little, but not very well.
Uh, but I have no clueabout marine life at all.
I'm not a biologist.
Um, I, I know a little bit, uh, nowadaysa bit more than back then, but mm-hmm.
Uh, it, it's not, not closeenough to, to become a really, a
marine conserv conservative, orhow do you call it in English?
(27:57):
Um, conservationist.
Yeah, conversationist.
That's right.
Yeah.
Um, so with, with our abilities, with our.
Skill, what can we do to, uh,to make an improvement to make
impact in ocean conservation?
And that's why we came up with this ideaof let's bring people together with all
(28:18):
these organizations that are actuallydoing something on ocean conservation.
And, and just that simpleidea to bring people together.
Um, that's where it started and thenit started evolving from that point on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We, we, we, someone was, you were actuallythe first one who, who understood my idea.
Right.
That was, let, let me start with that.
(28:39):
That's also a very importantmeasure before you start talking
to co-founders, you need someoneto understand what you mean.
And, and remember very clearlythat, uh, we were talking about
the, this, uh, how can we makean impact and, and where is this?
We, we both have a passion fornature, uh, conservation, uh,
and, and, and, and sustainability.
We're, uh, worried also about climatechange and, and yeah, what you can
(29:04):
do there, uh, if you, if you reallyzoom out and you look at the earth and
you see all this, this, this amazingamount of water, it, it, it's really.
Triggers this, this, this, this.
Mind of, hold on.
There's so much more than, thanwhat we see on our everyday life.
Mm-hmm.
There should be something there.
And, and, and I, I remember very clearlythat one of the convers conversations
(29:26):
I had with, uh, with, uh, with a marinebiologist who, who explained me about.
What is happening, how the ocean plays arole, how our oxygen, half the oxygen, uh,
comes from the ocean and, oh, oh, hold on.
That's, uh, there must be more.
Yes.
Uh, what is happening in this field,and I really remember that we, uh, uh,
uh, yeah, the summer, this was actuallyin collaboration with, uh, Amsterdam
(29:50):
University of Applied Science, right?
Where we talked about, okay,what is happening in this world
of ocean sustainability, uh,ocean climate change, uh, uh.
Uh, restoration initiatives,this, this, this field.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and one of the things that wenotice is, hold on, there's already 10,000
(30:11):
organizations there and, and, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Why should we do exactly the same?
We don't, we we're not this competitivepeople who want to outcompete others.
Uh, we also felt like, yeah,but this is a good idea.
There's also another good idea.
And, and, and look at thisone, what they are doing.
Right?
Yeah.
And this, this really triggered that.
Okay.
So how would it be if instead ofdoing the same thing, uh, comparable
(30:36):
thing or something that is.
Almost the same.
Why don't we do something that supportsthe whole group that would really
make a difference in scaling and, andit could also be something that's.
It differentiates in, in the fact that,uh, we don't do competition, uh, periods.
That that's a very clearappointment we made.
(30:57):
We don't do competition.
There's only collaborators and peoplewho have, if you have the right mindset,
if you have the right intentions andwant to make a difference or impact in
ocean climate change or sustainability.
You're welcome to join and, and we'remore than happy to help you with, with
visibility, awareness, and funding.
That's where we come in.
Yeah.
And yeah, and, and, and, yeah.
(31:17):
That's where we are today.
Yeah.
Well, and I think it's such a, that's a,I think it's really, um, I, I'm gonna say
this in a, I don't mean this as insult.
I was very mature of you tocome into, uh, a, a field.
Where you don't have as much experience.
You're getting to know what's going on.
You see what's available.
You see the type of organizationsthat are out there doing great
(31:40):
work and you understand and you,and you respect them to do that.
And then you sit there like,how do we play a role here?
Where, you know, we can still becollaborative, which was the reason why
you were on last time, Bart, um, andtalk about collaboration, but also like
how do we support this, this industry.
And I think it's, I think it's reallyimportant, and especially with the,
the business mindsets that you have.
(32:01):
It's like, where can we fill.
The gap.
Yeah.
You know, and, and what gap and I, andI feel like the biggest gap, and I've
seen this, I've been at this for a longtime, you know, o over 20 years, um, in
marine and freshwater biology, but alsoin communications and talking to a number
of different people and seeing how.
There are some shortcomings withinthe, the marine conservation field.
(32:22):
You know, you, when you, when yougraduate as a marine scientist or as
a conservationist, whether it be anadvocate or a lawyer and you wanna
work in, it could be any field really.
As you know, any field cango into marine conservation.
It's a hard thing to do to start acareer because, you know, you can go
to government, you can go to nonprofitorganizations, you can go to private
(32:43):
consulting and, and, and do it that way.
Yeah.
But it all depends on the fundingthat's around, you know, even in
government, there's, it is notguaranteed, you know, as we see,
like in Canada, in the past when a.
A specific party gets in,they, they decide to cut all
the environmental positions.
Yeah.
Or they, because they don'twant to have to deal with that.
And we're seeing that mm-hmm.
In the, in the US at this point.
(33:04):
And Yeah.
And, uh, and it's, it's very, it's,it's very interesting to come in and,
and the, the gap that I've seen isthose, those people who don't fit
within that, those three pillars.
It's these, these independent people.
Who have great projects, um, whohave like great ideas and great
products, but they just don't havethe ability to get the funding to
(33:26):
get those projects moving forward.
Oh, yeah.
Which could have a significant impact,whether it be locally, regionally, or
even nationally or internationally.
And I feel like that's whereyou guys really fit in.
Yeah.
And, and I like that.
Yeah.
In, in a way, what is, we take a lot ofinspiration actually from what we've seen.
Right.
I mean the, the, the,the, the people are there.
(33:46):
The solutions are there.
Technology has never been the issue.
So what is stopping us and, and wefound out is, is very much about.
Many people don't evenknow what is possible.
No.
Mm-hmm.
And this is where we want to playa role in how can we make people
aware of how things are possible?
And, and if you know that thingsare possible, if you feel inspired,
(34:07):
of course, uh, you, you, youwant to be part of solutions.
You want to be on the good side.
You want to help, you want tosupport and, and make a difference.
And, and this is where we built a bridgebetween society and impact makers.
Like, like in your example, uh, it, it.
It could be anyone, uh, a student, uh, uh,uh, uh, someone who retired and follows
(34:27):
his, his or her passion, or entrepreneurs.
Uh, uh, there's so many people who haveamazing ideas and we feel like they should
be leveraged in what they're doing and,and, and deserve to be scaling their
efforts and, and, and, and their impact.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's a huge, uh,that's a huge part of it.
(34:48):
Um, and I, and I feellike that's interesting.
So when you got to that point whereyou're like, how do we, how do we do this?
Where did the idea come from for, or whydon't you just, maybe, why don't you just
talk about the, the goal of, of Bian.
Mm-hmm.
And then talk about like howthat idea evolved into that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what we do is we do, uh, awareness,visibility, and funding for ocean
(35:13):
impact initiatives around the planet.
And we got into this field by the, the,the sense that there's something missing.
Uh, funding is clearlyone of the biggest issues.
To, uh, make initiative skill.
And the other part is that most people,uh, normal people like me are not
(35:33):
even aware of what is already there.
So.
When we were talking about this, this,uh, I, I, I, we re I remember very
clearly Isand that we talked about.
Yeah.
Hmm.
How would it be if we bring thistogether in some sort of platform
and could we do crowdfunding?
Could we do, uh, matchmaking?
And, uh, I really remember the,the moment that you said, yeah, but
(35:53):
actually Bart, this should be combinedwith, with a, with an experience,
uh, where people can connect.
It's, it's a community.
So why don't we combine.
Funding awareness and visibilityin, in, in a community feeling
where you can feel welcome, whereyou can feel part of solutions, uh,
where you can go for an experience.
And more importantly, to be part ofthe solution no matter where you are,
(36:17):
what you, what skills you bring tothe table or what your background is.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And maybe also it's an advantagefor us not being marine
scientists, but out of the field.
Uh mm-hmm.
We, we know what the generalpeople, uh, doesn't know.
Do not know.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
They have no clue about, uh, whatorganizations there are, what they can do,
(36:39):
how they can, uh, help in, in protectingany, uh, ocean or, or sea or whatever.
Um, and yeah, I think with, with our.
Lack of knowledge in this case.
Mm-hmm.
We can maybe bring the, the, thesystem, the app, the technology
that they need to understand, okay,here's why, how I can make impact.
(37:02):
This is what I can do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, it's, it's been, I've been, uh,I've had the, uh, great fortune of, of
being part of, of this, of this program,you know, uh, in the, in the early stages.
Yeah.
And, and I, I, I definitely appreciatethat I've gotten to know both of you,
but I've gotten to know the otherpeople, um, in the, in the early
adopter program as, as, as you call it.
(37:22):
And it's been such a, an amazing, uh,evolution for my own way of communicating
as someone who's in communications.
It, it's, it's, it's really great.
To see.
'cause I have my own, you know, I'm, I'mstuck in like, I do this a lot on my own.
I have, I take advice frompeople that come in, but a
lot of it's stuck in my head.
And, you know, when you get stuckin your own head and you, you
think, oh, this is what the peoplewant, this is what they want.
(37:43):
But to be able to hear it from onethe both of you, um, but also your
collaboration with, with NatalieGilson, who's a communications expert
and has been friend of the podcastand been on this podcast as well.
To be able to really spell it outfor people of how we do things, why
we're doing projects from, uh, outsideof our, not only our own heads,
but outside of the marine field.
(38:04):
Because what we know as what'simportant to the marine field may
not be necessarily the prioritiesof people outside the marine field.
And to be able to sometimes justgo down to the most simplest.
Part of what we're trying to do mightbe enough to impress not only the
both of you, but also the fundersthat will be, you know, joining the
platform, supporting the platform.
(38:25):
I think that's been like a reallyeye-opening thing for me during
this process, and I'm sure tothe other, uh, early adopters.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
Thanks.
First of all, a big thank youfor these, these insights.
I mean, um, we.
Sometimes we also don't know.
Right.
Of course.
We, we, we, we we'realso not communicators.
We, we both come fromengineering, remember.
(38:47):
But what I find super interestingis, is we, we kickstarted this
early adopter program and look,uh, we have an idea for a platform.
It's not that yet there, butdo you want to be part of it?
Yeah.
That's our early adopter program.
Yeah.
Uh, we're launching, uh, theplatform in October, October, 2025.
And during this program where weset up workshops, collaboration, uh,
(39:11):
knowledge exchange, and sharing, uh,with, with Natalie, uh, from, from
Pisces, uh, about ocean storytelling.
About how to, how totell what you're doing.
Yeah.
I, I was also surprised and, and, andreally encouraged by the fact how much
knowledge there already is in this group.
Uh, there was this amazing senseof, okay, let's help the others.
(39:34):
Let's help, uh, my friends, let's alsohelp, uh, other organizations who might be
on the other side of the ocean, literally.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And, and sometimes you just bringthis, this, this single thought
that I haven't thought of before.
If you open up for that, itdoesn't require, let's say,
(39:54):
myself to have all this knowledge.
If you just bring together the peopleand you create this atmosphere of
knowledge exchange of a community,uh, with the same goals for making
impact, ocean impact, that is, thatreally brings in a lot, uh, lot of,
uh, powerful forces and, and, um, yeah.
Uh, we feel like, uh, we aredefinitely on the right path
with now 11 o organizations.
(40:16):
But, um.
We're, we're scaling and the morepeople, the more initiatives, the more
organizations we bring to the table,the more, the more visitors we have,
the more powerful this collaborationand knowledge exchange becomes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Why don't you let people know, uh, youknow, we've talked about what Valiant
is and what's what it's trying to do.
(40:37):
Uh, for the people in the audiencewho are, you know, early career
researchers, they're scientists,they're, they're engineers, they're
people of all different backgrounds.
People who want to know howthey can help protect the ocean.
Um.
From a, like once theplatform launches, yes.
How can they, they help other thansharing the platform, of course, but how
can they help, uh, support the platformand, and the projects that are there?
(40:59):
Like, what does it look like for themwhen they like the ideal, when they go
to the, to the site, into the platform?
We, we are building a minimum viableproduct now, so the, the, the very
bare functionality which entailshaving the projects, all these
organizations that have their projects.
On the platform, and you can read aboutwhat they're doing, what impact they
are making, and then you can donate.
(41:20):
So the, the best way to help both Bian andthose organizations is to donate, right?
Uh, that's the first step, right?
And, uh, okay.
The organizations need their money.
They really, uh, need, uh, some fundingto make more impact, but also bian needs
to grow, needs to scale up, needs to,uh, also require some money to do that.
(41:41):
Uh, so we also ask for, uh, a tip.
On top of the donation, uh, for us, ofcourse, uh, that that's the first thing.
But yeah, uh, that'sonly a starting point.
This is where the journey starts.
From there onwards, we havelike an, a huge amount of ideas.
Think about, uh, okay, uh, contact thoseorganizations directly in, in like a,
(42:02):
a con command or chat functionalitywhere you can talk to those people
and ask if they need more help.
Think about, uh, things like citizenscience where people can provide.
Content, data, images, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we, we haven't thought aboutit, what the details are, but, uh,
they can provide that, add that tothe platform, and we can mm-hmm.
(42:23):
Sort of process that and, um, uh,give out, give back the data from it.
Yeah.
Um, think about, uh, people ororganizations, not only, uh.
Projecting their idea, their projectsthat they're working on, but also maybe
events, volunteering events that they haveor volunteering work that they require,
(42:46):
and then people can directly apply tothose events or those volunteering jobs.
So yeah.
May maybe your, maybeyour next job is there.
Eh?
Yes.
It, it, who knows?
We have been, uh, we have beenvery, that was very interesting is
that as soon as we started and themoment we had our website live.
We have volunteers helping us.
Yeah.
People we never met before, andsuddenly they're part of the team.
(43:10):
And, and, and that's also somethingwhere we feel like, okay, this is
something where we can make a difference.
If you feel like, Hmm, I want tobe part of it, uh, I would like to
contribute to an initiative in Mexico,in, in the Netherlands or in Canada,
uh, and support them financially.
Perfect.
Yeah.
If you feel like, hmm, it'saround the corner, I can help.
Or it's not around the corner, but Ican help remotely, uh, supporting them.
(43:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, there's a lot of ways how youcan, how you can actually Yeah.
Be part of, of, of bringingsolutions and, and, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, yeah.
Uh, but it's experience as well.
Yeah.
Uh, uh, stories, ocean stories.
There's so many people who justhave a passion for the ocean.
Uh, they, they, they live onthe ocean sometimes, literally.
Uh, yes.
(43:53):
Uh, uh, write stories about it.
Uh, podcast.
I know someone who does podcasts.
Yes, there is, there are somany people who, who really.
Care about what we're doing.
Uh, we did not get this justfrom our market research.
We really experienced firsthandhow much passion there is and, uh,
absolutely passion that deserves to beshared, uh, with like-minded people.
(44:14):
Yeah, I, it, I agree.
I think it that this platform, as yousaid right now, it's, it's, uh, you know,
an MVP, like a minimal viable productthat you're put, that you're putting
forth and it can build from there.
And I think.
That, that will be reallyinteresting, the, the different
possibilities that can come in.
But just the fact that, you know, theexposure for these projects that may not
have this exposure on an internationallevel, um, through this platform is
(44:36):
such a, is such an important part.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, you know, we all work within our own.
Communities within our own, sometimessilos, you know, where we're just
kinda stuck within our own, ourown people within our own network.
To be able to be part of a largernetwork that is international, uh,
is, is really important, uh, to, toall of us, you know, anybody who,
who becomes part of this platform?
(44:57):
The, the, the, the interestingquestion that I have, you know,
you, you have definitely made a, adecision, a conscious decision too.
Support international projects.
You know, we have a, a couple peoplefrom Canada, we have a couple people
like you mentioned some, some in Mexico.
Um, what, why was that like, youcould have said, we wanna stay in
like, just in the net like supportprojects in the Netherlands, which
(45:18):
took completely understandable.
You know, you know the Netherlands,you, you know, it's, it's your, oh yeah.
Your home and, and your home country.
Or you could have said the EuropeanUnion just in general because there's
a lot of of connections there as well.
What made you decide, we wanna pro, wewant to open this up internationally.
Yeah, I, I think there's a fewthings that, that really, uh,
(45:38):
uh, that we really noticed.
Uh, I remember that we were in, uh,November 23, uh, we were at Ocean
Ovation, which happens to be in theHague in, in the Netherlands at the time.
And the first thing you noticeis that there's a really, really
international environment.
Mm-hmm.
It's not like if there is aninitiative from, uh, let's say, uh,
from, uh, from from Canada, thatit's only Canadians working there.
(45:59):
Uh, right.
And, and, and the samefor, for the Netherlands.
So it's really international.
It's very diverse.
Uh, there you see all kinds of people, uh,uh, you, you've never met before, but they
have the same passion for Ocean impact.
On the other hand, um, we in moderntimes, uh, sander has been to Australia
(46:20):
and he got this trigger for, oh,hold on, this is something big.
We really felt like, Hmm.
Uh.
Sometimes the inspiration also comesfrom where you've been and mm-hmm.
You might have been on holidayin Portugal, uh, where you
got your inspiration, hold on.
There's something great happening here.
Um, and you start caring for anenvironment or certain field where
(46:43):
you, where you don't come from, whereyou don't live, but you just know the
place and you start caring for it.
Mm-hmm.
So it really breeds likethis, this, this whole.
International, global, uh, uh, uh,collaboration, uh, from the sector as a
whole, but also how the ocean is, uh, is,is experienced by, by different people.
(47:05):
Yeah.
And let's not forget, uh, the, the,the ocean is 71% of the surface
of the, of planet Earth, right?
Uh, so it's, it, it doesn't stop locally.
Everything is connected.
Uh, there is.
One large moss of water,which is all interconnected.
It's the largest ecosystem in the planet.
Yeah.
And if, if I. I'm in thewater here in the Netherlands.
(47:29):
It's the same water.
I might run into some conversationswith a marine biologist, but it's
the same water as someone who isin India or in, uh, yeah, in China.
It, um, yeah, so it, it, it reallyfelt natural to, to start exploring it.
And when we kickstarted our earlyadopter program for, for finding,
uh, organizations impact makers.
(47:51):
Um, we got very quickly alreadyapproached by people from,
uh, not from the Netherlands.
And, uh, uh, we, we never seta border to No, you should
have these or those barriers.
And we are only accepting from,from Europe or from the Netherlands.
No, we opened up, uh, see what happens.
And, uh, we, yeah, automatically and,and also, uh, to our great, uh, uh,
(48:15):
uh, enthusiasm, uh, found out thereis, uh, a very collaborative space.
Yeah, yeah.
No, absolutely.
There's, I mean, there's definitelypeople who want to Oh yeah.
To collaborate, who want tohelp, uh, who needs some help,
who needs some, this platform.
Um, and I think it's, I think it's veryimportant and I'm, I'm looking forward
to, to not only participating in it,but seeing how this platform grows not
only from the, from the launch, all theway to its growth and it's evolution.
(48:39):
I think it's something that's absolutelyneeded, uh, in this, in this field.
Um, and, and, um, I think it's,it's gonna be really great to see.
These projects get supported froma variety of different levels, as,
as all of you mentioned, right?
It's, it's not only from a fundingperspective, exposure perspective,
maybe citizen science perspective,um, maybe, you know, uh, an ability
(49:01):
to recruit people to help out,to volunteer and and so forth.
I think that's, that's really importantand get that international exposure.
So, uh, I wanna thank both of youfor, for coming on the podcast
and, and, uh, you know, telling usthis story, telling us how you met.
I have one question though.
Yeah, as as a dog owner, myself andI live in an area, a neighborhood.
That's all.
You know, a lot of dogs, like we, I Iwould say 75% of the people who in, in
(49:25):
this neighborhood own at least one dog.
Um, and a lot of the times when we'rewalking, we all know each other.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
But there's a, there's a good chancethat we know the dog's name Yes.
And more than we know the owner's name.
So how long was it before you actuallyknew each other's names and not
just your dog's names when you met?
I think in that sense it helped.
Being neighbors.
(49:45):
So, uh, right when I moved in,uh, they also welcomed us, uh, as
neighbors in the, in the neighborhood.
Nice.
So that's how that sortof came to me pretty fast.
But you're totally right.
I mean, there are so many peoplearound where I know the name of the
dog, but not the name of the person.
Yeah.
We're just like, oh,that's Chester's owner.
(50:06):
Oh, okay.
Or that's nachos owner.
Yeah.
That's how it works.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Guys, thank you.
Sorry.
Go ahead Kurt.
No, that, that, I, I reallyrecognize what you're saying here.
It's, uh, it took me a whilebefore It was not Sandor neighbor,
but it was Sandor in my phone.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
So the, the last name is what I, whatI was, uh, thinking Andrew is, um.
(50:27):
Uh, now that we have, uh,our launch coming up, yeah.
It might be a nice idea to, to, uh,uh, host some of the, uh, participants
in, in the podcast as well.
I mean, absolutely.
We are doing, we're doingsome nice work there.
They have some amazing stories to tell.
Yes.
So perhaps this could be a nice, uh,starting point as well, and, um, so that
people can also get to know the founders,uh, the, yeah, the, the initiative
(50:49):
takers, the scientists behind it.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's something that,you know, we've discussed
for quite some time and yeah.
To be able to bring them on the podcastand to be able to get, help them get
that exposure, and then for that Yeah.
You know, interview to live onthe, on the website and, uh, so
that people can get to know themfor, you know, for time and time.
Like every time they come tothe site, they can, they can
read their founder story Yeah.
(51:09):
And their story.
Yeah.
And the project story.
So I think that's a,that's a, a, a definite.
A bonus, uh, for, for everybody,you know, for myself, yeah.
For you guys, for, for the, theproject and for the people, um, that
we're, that we're gonna be offering.
So I think that's, that'salways, that's always wonderful.
I can't wait to do this.
I can't wait to see the launch.
Uh, yes.
And we'll have you back on as we launchso that we can get people to participate
(51:31):
and to, to really get in there.
But, uh, I wanna thank you bothfor, for coming on the podcast
and sharing, sharing this story.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
Thank you for, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, it was really nice, uh, tohave this, uh, um, this opportunity.
Absolutely.
Thank you Barton Saer for joiningus on today's episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
That was great to have you on.
Great to hear your founder's story.
(51:53):
If you wanna know more about bian,you can go to bion B-A-L-E-A n.org.
That's B-A-L-E-A-N.
Dot org.
Uh, you can check out this dynamicwebsite, which is changing day by
day, and it's something that I feelis very important for you to check out
and look at, you know, in the future.
This is not just now, butlook at in October when they
(52:14):
launch, but also in the future.
It's gonna be great to see how thisplatform is going to build and how
it's going to grow as we go along.
Some of the things I thoughtwas really cool is, you know
how both of these gentlemen.
Evolved in their careers and evolved intodoing something with meaning for them.
Everybody has their own meaning.
Everybody has their own purposeand everybody has something
(52:35):
that's important to them.
For Saunders and Bart, it was, Hey,let's do something great for the ocean.
Let's do somethingmeaningful for the ocean.
And I think it was great thatthey're walking along the coastline.
Walking with their dogs as I met throughthe dogs, as you know, I have two dogs
that, you know, I meet a lot of peoplethrough here where I know more the
dog's names than the owner's names.
For most part, that's our neighborhood.
(52:55):
Uh, we have so many dogs, but youknow that dogs bring people together.
I'm telling you it'sa great social aspect.
And they're also great pets.
They're great companions.
They get.
To be part of the family pretty quickly.
But you know, it was reallyinteresting how that brought
these two individuals together.
Fate brought them togetherin terms of moving in across
the street from each other.
They start talking, they start welcomingeach other in the neighborhood, shows how
(53:16):
community can grow something really great.
And then they're like, let'slook at something here.
Let's look at the ocean.
Where can we help the best?
And it's not to say, Hey, we'rejust gonna start an organization.
We're gonna put our own programs together.
We're gonna just kind of bombard analready busy and cluttered field.
But we're going to do something whereit's like there are so many people
who are doing great projects, theyjust need a little bit more support,
(53:36):
or they need a lot of support.
Let's be able to provide that for them.
Let's create a platform.
We can provide that for 'em.
Provide them with exposure, providethem with funding, give them the
tools that they need to get both.
And I think that's great.
And I love the platform.
I've loved my experience so far.
Both of these guys and Bian and undertheir early adopters program, they
have great vision, great insight, verycollaborative, very friendly, which you
(53:58):
don't get all the time, unfortunately,in this field, but we got it with them.
So I wanted to have them on the podcastand be able to share those stories.
And of course, we'll also sharewhen they launch and we'll have
them back on to talk about that.
And.
You know what kind of projects we can do.
We'll also have some of thefounders of these projects on to
talk about their projects as well.
So you'll get to know these individualsand projects that have teams.
(54:19):
So I think it'll be a lot of fun.
So anyway, that's something tolook forward to in the future,
but I wanna thank you so much.
If you have any questions or comments,you can put them in the comments
below if you're watching this onYouTube, or you can just contact.
Either on Instagram through DM at How toProtect the Ocean, or you can go to the
website, speak up for blue.com/contact.
If you feel out the form goesright to my email, I'd be more
(54:39):
than happy to answer you back.
I wanna thank you again for joiningme and listening to this episode and
all the other episodes that we've had.
We've had a bump in numbersover the summer, especially
on YouTube, which is great.
And of course on audio is always wonderfulto have everybody in the audience.
We're expanding.
We're building this community andgrowing this community for more
people to learn about the oceans.
Basically what we wanna do here isprovide a resource for people who wanna
(55:02):
learn more about the ocean and changehow we can live for a better ocean.
That's the tagline.
That's what we live by here.
And I wanna thank you so much.
So thank you so much for joiningme on today's episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin fromthe True North Strong and Free.
Have a great day.
We'll talk to you next timeand happy conservation.
I have a special episode for you today.
We have Bart Orr and Sonder Brennan onthe podcast today to talk about Bion.
If you remember correctly, Bart wason the podcast a number of months
ago talking about collaboration.
Today we're gonna be talking abouttheir founder story and how they
founded Bion and what to expectwhen they launched in October.
(00:20):
This is a great platform.
If you are somebody who is independentor you have an independent project
and you're looking for funding,and you're looking for some.
Report.
Just full disclosure, I am a part of this.
I'm one of their early adopters and I'vebeen working with them in collaboration
to bring awareness of how people workindependently and how they need funding
and how they need that kind of support.
So we're gonna talk about thaton today's episode of the How
(00:42):
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
Let's start the show.
Hey everybody.
Welcome back to another exciting episodeof the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, and thisis the podcast where you find out what's
happening with the ocean, how you couldspeak up for the ocean, what you can do to
live for a better ocean by taking action.
On today's episode, we havetwo very special guests.
We have Bart or and Saunders Brennan,who are here to talk about their
(01:05):
founder story in how they foundedBallion, how they met as neighbors.
We're gonna talk about what they do forliving before this and how they pivoted
and how they wanted to really do somethingthat mattered in the crux of things.
They both are entrepreneurs and theyare very passionate about the ocean,
and they looked at the ocean, they said.
(01:25):
What can we do to help?
We want to help.
And that's what they do, and that'swhat they're doing right now, is they're
building a platform to help independentprojects, independent individuals who
want to do something to help the ocean,and they're going to help them get
funding and provide support for them.
So it's gonna be a great platformthat I want people to know
about, especially you guys.
So let's get into it.
(01:46):
Here's the interviewwith Bardo and Sonder.
Brennan.
Enjoy the interview and I'll talk to you.
After.
Hey Bart.
Hey Sander.
Welcome to the How toProtect the Ocean Podcast.
Are you ready to talkabout marine conservation?
Definitely.
So yeah, bring it home.
Right on.
This is gonna be a lot of fun.
Uh, Bart, you've beenon the podcast before.
We talked about collaboration.
(02:06):
That was a big, uh,part of that discussion.
And today we're gonna be talking about.
Bian.
We, we talked a little bit about Bionlast time, but we're really gonna
go into the founder's story of Bium.
We have Bart, we have Sonder here.
You guys are the founders, andwe're gonna hear about what you
are hoping to accomplish with Bian.
We're gonna find out your backgrounds.
We're gonna find out, you know,the, the platform, uh, how
(02:26):
this is all gonna work out.
It's gonna be a lot of fun.
Uh, this is gonna be something that I'vebeen looking forward to for, for a long
time, so I can't wait to get into it.
Awesome.
But before we do.
Why don't we just start off gettingto know you guys a little bit?
Um, sand.
Let's start with you.
Since this is the firsttime on the podcast.
Welcome.
Thank you.
Once you just let us know,let the audience know, uh,
who you are and what you do.
Yeah, thanks, uh, for having me.
(02:46):
Uh, I'm Sanda, I'm, uh, from theNetherlands, like both of course.
Um, I'm the IT guy, so,uh, is gonna be a platform.
I'm, I'm the guy to, togo to in terms of it.
So I've worked is in itin like 20 years or so.
Um.
Having done all kinds of roles and, uh,in the, in the recent times, uh, I sort
(03:11):
of got sick of all the money making allthe commercial stuff and, uh, decided
to, uh, to do a third career switch.
Third, a little pivot, another pivot.
Uh, that, that is my third pivot.
So I started like really deep dive it.
Then I went more into consultancy.
So that was the first pivot.
Gotcha.
And then, uh, that went more inconsultancy versus a combination
(03:36):
in, um, how you say it, uh, uh,business development, so to say.
Gotcha.
Yeah.
That pivoted into a salesleadership role and now, uh,
I'm a full, full entrepreneur.
Right on.
I love that.
I love that.
That's quite the, uh, that'squite the evolution, which we'll
dive into to just a second.
Uh, Bart, you've beenon the podcast before.
Why don't you remind people ofwho you are and what you do?
(03:59):
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, yeah.
Bart, or, um, the, together with Sander,I am one of the co-founders for, uh, for
Ballium, and we are ocean entrepreneurs.
And, uh, what we do is, uh,we bring people together.
Uh, we have a community of oceanlovers, ocean impact makers, and
anyone who cares about the oceanand, uh, wants to feel like.
I can contribute, I can make a,I can make a difference, and, uh,
(04:22):
I have an idea or I want to help.
That's what we do.
And where Sandler is the ITperson, I am not the IT person.
I have no clue where to start.
But what I really like is, uh,yeah, I, I, I like collaboration.
I like bringing people together.
I like, um, um.
Projects I like, uh, uh, havinglong-term views and big visions.
(04:44):
Uh, that's where I really thrive.
Uh, but also, uh, that gives me energyand that's where Valion is also in,
uh, uh, especially now in the, thecurrent phases where things are really,
really kicking off, uh, where we are.
Uh, the, the ball is rolling.
Um, yeah, we feel super excited aboutwhere we're heading, uh, towards
the launch of our bion platformwhere all Ocean impact initiatives.
(05:07):
Ocean storytellers and impactmakers come together and for any
individual to, to join and participateand be part of the solution.
That's what we do.
Yeah.
I love that.
And then we're gonna dive into that,uh, in just a moment on today's episode.
But I, I wanna go back a little bitand, and dive into your, to your,
you know, the beginnings, you know?
(05:27):
Mm-hmm.
Um, it's, it's a very interestingstory how you guys came together.
Um, but, but before youguys knew each other, um.
Uh, and because of physicalproximity, I think, which we'll
get into in just a moment.
Um, so Sandra, you mentioned,you know, you were doing it.
Were you ever.
You know, interested, you guys are fromthe Netherlands, so you, you know, you're,
(05:49):
you're surrounded by, by, by water.
Did you grow up around the water?
Did you grow up more inland?
Like how did the ocean impact your life?
Or, or did it at allat that, at that point?
Like at a young age oras you were growing up?
Yeah, so first of all I was grown upmore inland, so not really at the coast.
Um Gotcha.
But at age 20 or so, I went for a longtrip to Australia and New Zealand.
(06:14):
And that's where, um, yeah, I, I reallylove nature in general, but, uh, I, I
went diving on the Great Barrier Reef.
That was an amazing experience.
Then I went to New Zealand whereyou have this huge national park.
It's, it's incrediblylarge with a lot of rain.
The Millford South, I'mnot sure if you know it.
(06:35):
And, uh, yeah, that's also like a, a, themost beautiful area in the world, I think.
So people that went to Norwayin, in in Europe will know a
little bit how it would look.
It's, it's a bit like a furat inNorway, that that's, that's magnificent.
And, um, so that's whereI started loving it.
Um, uh, later in my life, I alsowent to islands, uh, in, in the
Netherlands often for vacations.
(06:58):
Uh, started doing sailingand, and things like that.
So I have my sale, um, how it's called.
License or so like a driving license,but then for sailboats, yeah.
Nice, nice.
Yeah.
So yeah, slowly it's in my, in my youngeryears, not, but in, in, in the, in my
later ages, uh, in my twenties, so tosay, I really got this, this love for, for
(07:20):
coastal areas, uh, sea water in general.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That started, it's, it's so funny how,like, you know, I, I'm surrounded,
I live in Ontario, Canada, andI'm surrounded by the Great Lakes.
Yeah.
A lot of times growing up, all youthink about is going elsewhere for
water, like for, you know, for theactual ocean, not, not what we call the
Sweetwater Ocean here in the Great Lakes.
(07:42):
Oh yeah.
But, um, you know, you, you go tothese beautiful places, Australia, New
Zealand, like the Caribbean, and, and.
And down in like the south,like in the Mediterranean, all
these beautiful tropical places.
But we have these wonderful coastlinesdefinitely just around our own, back in
our own, you know, quote unquote backyard.
And, you know, you can do sailingand you can do scuba diving
(08:02):
and you can do snorkeling.
Might be a little cooler in thewater, but it's still, uh, you
know, beautiful and picturesque.
And, and we just don't realize ituntil maybe we're, we're adults.
Like, like sonder, when you startto go on vacations to these.
So these, uh, you know, islands in theNetherlands, which, you know, I would
imagine would be spectacular views.
Yeah.
Nice.
Yeah.
Um, some nice water with alot of wind I'm sure as well.
(08:22):
Uh, to, for good, for great for sailing.
Yeah.
Uh, which, which is, which is wonderful.
Yeah.
Um, and I think that's, I think that'sreally interesting to, to get that
appreciation for the ocean as you growup and you're able to get some, a little
bit of money to travel and, and to,to move out, like, you know, in your
twenties and, and thirties and so forth.
And I think that's, that's really great.
Now, you, you chose.
(08:43):
You know, the life of an ITperson, you know, an IT guy.
And so the, the first job, when you saidyou were like deep into it, did you work
for, you know, a company where you werethat IT person, you're setting up the
computers, you're looking at the networks.
Oh, you're looking at security.
Was that the kind of ityou were entirely not.
Oh, okay.
That would, what were you doing?
(09:05):
No, I, I, in my, uh, time I wasstudying, I, I worked for an organization
where you had exactly that role andI. Did a bit of that, but that was
definitely not my cup of the, uh, right.
I went for a big integrator and, uh,in that organization I did projects for
large organizations where I programmed,um, computer systems and think about,
(09:30):
for example, you have, nowadays youhave this banking app on your phone.
Mm-hmm.
Things like that.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
So you're like creating Yeah.
But then really like backendsystems, like mm-hmm.
Really large backend systems.
Uh, uh, we, we build those things.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
He, he still repairs myiPad if I mess up with it.
(09:51):
I mean, he tells he doesn'tdo that, but he can, he can.
I, I, he can still, he can stilldo that to a certain extent.
I can.
Uh, there is a limitation though,uh, with, with Windows, I don't
go, go well with Windows, butfor all the rest I'm good.
And, uh, so yeah, no, duly noted.
Yeah.
But, uh, duly noted.
But I mean that like.
(10:11):
That's pretty cool that you, you know,you, you are part of these teams that
create like the backend because Ithink a lot of people don't really
understand, we see the front end ofa lot of these banking apps and Yeah.
That we know and trust and, and knowthat they're secure to handle our money.
And, and I know, I know when likemobile banking came out for me.
You know, you don't trustit at the beginning.
You're just like, well, hold on a second.
Like, this is not somethingthat's gonna work.
(10:33):
But it works out so well becauseof people like yourself, you know,
around the world that are workingon these, these backend systems.
It's, it's like a pretty important thing.
It's like the unsung heroes of modern day.
You know, banking and, andusing mobile apps and stuff.
'cause we don't realize it.
We used to see the front, we just seethe user interface and that's all we
care about, you know, as, as we use it.
Right.
And, and so I think it's, uh, it'skind of nice that you got to be
(10:54):
a part of that, you know, and haslike meaning towards people's lives.
Yeah.
I mean, that's gotta be a, is thata big driver for you when you work
on something like when you look likeevery time you've done pivoting?
Yeah.
Right.
You mentioned that you've donepivoting before, like from the, the.
The work that you were doing, working onthese backend systems and then going into
consultancy, what was the driver to move?
(11:15):
Was it just something different or whatwas that, that quest you wanted to get?
Yeah, so it, that startedin my youth, I must say.
So I, my youth, I start playing with my,with the computer that we had at home.
And that slowly became sortof my computer, although
it was in fact my parents.
Right?
Right.
But I was doing so much with it.
And also I knew a lot morethan, than, uh, both my parents.
(11:37):
So they started also asking me things.
And, and that's also you mentioned, okay.
It it's creating, yeah.
It, it's creating.
So I, I remember a situation wheremy, my dad was asking me, uh, to
build something as you had a problem.
And he was describing it to me,and then I had to build it for
him in, I, I think it was in, in.
In, in batch script, in, uh, in, um,uh, MS. Dos back then, long time ago.
(12:00):
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but yeah, remember those days, but,but taking in his question, uh, building
something and then handing it back andgetting the feedback, oh, this is great.
You, you've done it.
Uh, very good.
This is exactly what I wanted.
That was my driver.
So exactly.
Translating the question intosomething workable and then see
(12:21):
people using that, that's, that'sdefinitely something I, I love to do.
That's also why I went for that.
Also because, yeah, I did somuch with computers already.
It was sort of logical follow upto go, uh, for sure study that.
And then at some point, yeah, theswitch to consultancy, um, is also
because that helped me go muchmore in front of the customer.
(12:43):
I was already having a, a customerfacing role, but that really got
me into, okay, now you go intothe customer here, his problem,
and then, uh, give him a solution.
And yeah.
Um, later on I went for customer success,which is sort of a, a sales role.
Uh, and the same thing, help the customerimprove, help the customer be successful,
and, and that's, uh, being successful.
(13:04):
That's what really the,the, the big drive.
Yeah, that's interesting.
'cause like I, my day job, I workas a customer success person.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah.
We, we talked about this before.
Yeah.
Uh, which is, which is great.
Uh, so that, yeah.
That's amazing.
It's such a, uh, must havebeen quite the change.
Uh, were there some challenges that youhad going from, you know, working in
the back end to be more customer facing?
(13:27):
Of course you have to learn,uh, I mean if you, if you've
ever worked with developers.
They tend to be the shy people.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, yeah, going into a publicor a customer facing role, you
have to be a lot more proactive.
You have to be a lot more communicative.
Um mm-hmm.
Yeah.
In the beginning you had some struggles,but then I had also good people or make
(13:51):
good mentors That helped me improve.
That helped me see, uh, what to changeand what, what to improve, um, right.
Yeah.
And, and, and yeah.
Now from there, and.
That, that's, that's really helpedme in, in, in getting better in it.
And I must say, um, I have this tendencyof, of seeing the way forward very easily.
(14:13):
So people tell me, and thensome, it already starts going
round and round in my hand.
Okay, this could be the solution.
And I immediately sub see a path forward.
Uh, but I also see from,from limited context.
Okay.
But this is the situation.
You have other organizations withsimilar situations, so it must be this.
And then you tell thosepeople and then they got, wow.
(14:35):
That's exactly the problem.
But that's because there were so manyorganizations already before them that.
Yeah, it's then easy.
Yeah, that makes it easy.
So also experience, uh, the yearsworking in there, uh, helped in
making, being successful in that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
Now going from that, you're getting,you know, you have this, this technical
(14:56):
background that you've been buildingover these years, not only from a
backend perspective and behind thescenes perspective, but now you're
getting into customer facing, soyou're dealing more with customers
and more with people facing it.
Now you become an entrepreneur.
Yes.
You know, what, what made was is, is bianyour first go at being an entrepreneur
or is this is, I mean, obviouslyyou're, you have your own consultancy.
(15:19):
That's, that's anentrepreneurial kind of venture.
But was bian your next,uh, your next leap I guess?
Yeah, and, and going like fullyentrepreneurial at Bion, I suppose,
and, and the, the organizationbehind it is my first leap.
Uh, in a previous role I did, um.
Become responsible for a larger team andalso responsible for profit and loss.
(15:41):
So that makes you already a kindof entrepreneur, but mm-hmm.
Um, I was always under the hood ofsomething else, so I was always.
Working for larger organization,uh, but with a profit and
loss responsibility and yeah.
Now I'm, I'm com completely on my own.
Yeah.
Now we have our own assetson the table, right?
(16:03):
Yeah.
Balance suddenly.
But it's also the freedom.
I mean, uh, I am very securein it nowadays, in, in moving
forward and, and, and yeah, I'menjoying the freedom as well.
Yeah, you were and youwere ready for that.
Yeah.
'cause come like, like with, with freedomalso comes a lot more responsibility.
Yes.
Right?
(16:23):
And, and there's a lot more, um.
I guess there's a lot more risk when itcome, when you're, you know, you, you move
fully as an entrepreneur and, and that,that takes a lot of guts to do that move.
Yeah.
But also to, uh, to just be like, yeah,no, I'm responsible for this risk.
So it's like it's on me.
Yeah.
It's on Bart.
Like it's on us, like, asa team to, to move forward.
Exactly.
(16:43):
And I think that takes some time toevolve as a business person, as you
have to get into that, as someonewho, who also had had to go through
that in, in certain times of my life.
Yeah.
I know there's one time whereI was not ready and then I
went back to the workforce.
So, you know, you, you kind of evolveas you, as you get, and you get more
comfortable with that, that type of risk.
If, if you feel that the risks arereally pressing you down and making you
(17:04):
reluctant and, and mm-hmm tired, anxiety,then, then that's not the right time.
Then it's better to move back.
If the risk is just okay, achallenge to change and to move
forward with, then you're good.
Then you're good.
Yeah, absolutely.
I completely agree.
Do something different, right?
It can also be really if the wallscome towards you, in that sense mm-hmm.
(17:26):
It's in, in a way, it's alsoa route you have to travel.
You, you, you cannot help it.
Uh, so yeah, I, I really believethat, uh, entrepreneurial mindset
is something you, uh, you.
It's, it's, it doesn't change fromone day to the other, uh, when you,
uh, uh, register at the Chamber ofCommerce, but it's more like something
(17:47):
that has always been there, right?
Yes.
Uh, you have always have your thoughts.
Yeah.
And it can be within an organizationor your own organization or in
our case, uh, uh, as two founders.
Uh, and then you need todo things together, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
No, absolutely.
And Sandra, even you, with yourbackground as, you know, as a IT
guy, but also like a developer,you're, you're into problem solving.
And that's essentially whatan entrepreneur can do.
(18:09):
So you, you do, you have thebackground, it's just a matter of
like putting in the context of whatyou want to, what you wanna work on.
And my, my pitfall is,oh, sorry, go ahead.
Oh, sorry.
And my, my pitfall is that I. I startdoing, but I don't finish doing.
Ah, yeah, you tell me now.
Well, that's just good to havea co-founder and someone to
help you, like stay on track.
(18:30):
I that I, I completely understand.
'cause I'm definitely, I'm,I'm definitely that way.
And, and, and Bart you know, last timeyou were on the, on the podcast, we got
a little bit of a, of, of a, a backgroundon you, but just to remind people like.
Where did you start before?
Like how did you end up being, youknow, a co-founder with, with Sonder?
With Bian?
Like what was your evolution, uh, to goinginto like the, the, the working world?
(18:52):
Yeah, well, I, I, I was, Iwas also a technical guy.
I moved gradually from consumer goods,uh, as an engineer, uh, towards, uh,
business development and strategy.
And from there I startedlonging for purpose and impact.
Uh, what does it bring if youcreate stuff that is already there
and you create just more stuff?
And that was.
I, I just mentioned how, how it feels likewhen the walls are coming towards you and
(19:18):
you and, and you feel like you're limited.
Yeah.
This was my moment.
I decided, okay, now, now it'sreally time to make a change.
Um, what if we do something that's,is not just there to make money or
to, with being an entrepreneur forthe sake of being an an entrepreneur,
but more like, how can we.
Making a difference and Right.
(19:39):
And this making a difference.
That's something that's, uh, triggeredsomething a couple of years back already.
Uh, yeah, it was already there.
The spark.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, when you, when youstart thinking about something, uh,
it, it keeps you awake at night.
Uh, you, you are thinkingabout it all the time.
You're in all situations,all opportunities.
(19:59):
You see, you see the different light.
And, and, and that's what's reallytriggered it and, and also made,
uh, yeah, made a difference, uh,compared to, uh, how I used to be.
Right?
Uh, yeah.
If there was even a bar from thepast and a bar from the future,
uh, if there is such a thing.
Um, well, I mean, that's, that'sthe, that's the beauty about, you
know, evolving, you know, as, asa human being, but like you have.
(20:22):
These specific moments within your lifethat, that, whether it be having kids or
whether it be, you know, looking at, atnature and how it's changing that Yeah.
That can make you pivot and make youswitch and, and sometimes it's just
like, oh, I want something different.
And I want to be just like Saunders,like I want to go into more
customer facing roles and I wantto go into, you know, more roles
(20:44):
where I have more control over the.
Over the product and, and,and helping get through this.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
But for you guys, it's for the two of you.
It's interesting, you guys, whenfounders meet, a lot of times
it's at like, maybe mm-hmm.
At, um, uh, at a meeting, you know, of,of the, of the great minds and business
leaders or you, you meet at a, um, uh,like a, who knows, like a convention
(21:07):
or a conference or things like that.
You do have a, a, a different background.
You, you actuallyphysically like neighbors.
You, you live across thestreet from each other, right?
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Right, right there.
Yeah.
So, so how did that, how did this,like friendship, 'cause I assume it,
it, it started off as a friendship.
How did that friendship, like how, howmany years back have you been living
across the street from each other?
(21:27):
Ah, I, I, I didn't, Ididn't really count right.
I, we moved in, when didyou start living here?
Moved, uh, in here in 2021.
Um, mid 2021.
So that's about, uh, fourand a half years now.
Yep.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I was there one and a half year before.
Okay.
Okay.
So, okay.
So both new to the neighborhood.
(21:47):
Pretty new to, but yeah, exactly.
And we now, we now, um, know eachother about four, four and a half
years then, and, uh, now as oppositeneighbors, uh, you, uh, meet each
other at the street, uh, drink acoffee together every now and then.
And yeah, there's this other sort of.
Um, hobby that we haveboth have, which is dogs.
(22:09):
Ah, dogs always bring people together.
Yes.
Dogs will always bring people together.
So yeah, they're they're, they'rethe other co-founding team.
They're the other co-founding team.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Totally.
Yeah.
But it, what is really interestingis that, uh, sometimes you search
the world for finding the right.
Co-founder or mm-hmm.
Entrepreneurial partner, business partner.
(22:31):
You, you reach out to people and, andmany of them say, ah, well I really love
your idea, but I just got this new job.
Or, Hmm.
I like what you're doing, but, Hmm.
Yeah, I'm a little bitshort on money or, yeah.
Uh, my family cannot help, uh, cannotwork, cannot support me, and, and.
And, and in our case, um, well, it justhappens to live across the street, right?
(22:52):
Yes.
It can also be verycoincidental in that sense.
Definitely.
Yeah.
And, and, and during one of thesewalks, it, it really started resonating.
Sometimes you feel like, okay,now we're onto something and
this might actually work.
Um, yes.
And here we are, and then nowwe're suddenly in this journey.
Exactly.
That, that's exactly the point.
But this might actually work.
(23:14):
This, this, that's also why I am.
Hooked on, on his, uh, idea because Iwas already in my mind thinking about,
uh, okay, what can I do to make moreimpact to, to be more purposeful?
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, my wife, she's workingin nature conservation in
general and more coastal areas.
Okay.
But, uh, uh, doing allother things as well.
(23:34):
And they have all this research data they,they sit on, and that's an immense amount.
Yes, but it's all living inExcel sheets and that's insane.
Yes, that's insane.
It really blows my mind to havelike thousands and thousands
of, of lines in an Excel sheet.
I'm laughing because I, I've been there,you know, as, as a scientist, um, who
(23:58):
used to love Excel, but also as a databasemanager, like a gi s database manager.
He used to be like, are you kidding me?
Like, how many more Excel sheetsdo you need to put into this?
Like, we should be putting this into yes.
A database.
Like, especially like even at,like, even to a point, I don't
know, does she work, does your wifework for a government or does she
work for a nonprofit organization?
Uh, it's also not, it's a commercialorganization, but that organization works
(24:21):
for a lot for a government organization.
Okay.
Well, what, what I find, find,I used to work for federal
government here in Canada and like.
All of our stuff was on Excelsheets, like on personal computers.
And as you know, that, like as anIT guy that must give you stress
beyond stress because all that datacould be lost if that computer,
you know, goes, you know, gets wet.
Or you're looking at, at, ataquatic biologists who take their
(24:44):
computers everywhere and don'ttreat 'em properly and stuff.
And I, we used to just be like, we needto grab that data and put 'em on like a
central database so we don't lose this.
The people's data.
You know, you can't lose the Exactly.
But, and you should, but Scientist,we love our Excel sheets.
Yeah.
We love our, I know, but it's not justlosing, but it also making it accessible.
But because hundred percent Excelsheet, it's, it's, it crashes all
(25:05):
the time with those large data sets.
Yeah.
It's insane.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You can already, you can already, youcan already hear it in Sandra's voice.
He's just like, wait a minute.
This is, there's a lot ofstress going on in this.
So this is the Yeah.
This is the, also the,the trigger that I needed.
Right.
I was the one who wasn'teven aware of these risks.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and, uh, what,what might go wrong.
Right.
(25:25):
And, but yeah, sometimesit, it, it needs to.
Resonate and, and your, your passionfor, okay, how can we optimize,
how can we do things better?
That was something that's,um, yeah, there's the overlap.
Yeah.
Uh, how can we make a differenceand how can we do things better?
Yeah, but what if we combine forces?
What if we join forces?
Right.
That that's, that, that's, yeah.
That's basically the background or Yeah.
(25:47):
The, the, the, the energy, uh,system behind our collaboration, eh?
Yes.
Yeah.
And I, and I love that I, I'm lookingon the, the website and on your founder
story page, you have like, yeah.
You know the question, what if wecould do something that truly mattered?
And I feel like, yeah.
I feel like everybody wants to answerthat question at some point in their
life, but that's also a very big question.
There's so many different ways Yeah.
(26:08):
That you can go to answer thatquestion and still be legitimate
and still, you know, you know,do something that truly matters.
How did it go from let's dosomething that truly mattered?
What if we could do somethingthat truly mattered to let's
help, you know, help people.
Let's help.
People that are trying to help the ocean.
(26:29):
Yeah.
How did it, how did that step, thatseems to be like a, a big step.
Yeah.
But it's also a, a, an evolution, right?
So that didn't start,of course, immediately.
So first of all, I, I remember barcoming to me reluctantly with this idea.
I have this idea and can you have a, an, alook at it, maybe give you opinion about.
If it would work or not, andif it's even even doable.
(26:50):
And then mm-hmm.
He started explaining me and, andimmediately, as I said earlier,
things started going round andround and seeing solutions, but also
opportunities beyond what he was, uh,explaining, uh, around data collection.
And so also we started alsobrainstorming and, and all the ideas
came and came and more ideas came.
Um, uh, and um, I think it started with.
(27:15):
A simple, okay.
Uh, let, let's take a piece of oceanand have people adopt it, so to say.
Mm-hmm.
And, um, also with the idea, okay,we are, uh, a mechanical engineer
and a, a computer engineer.
What can a mechanical engineerand a computer engineer do to
improve ocean conservation?
(27:35):
I mean, I'm not, I can divea little, but not very well.
Uh, but I have no clueabout marine life at all.
I'm not a biologist.
Um, I, I know a little bit, uh, nowadaysa bit more than back then, but mm-hmm.
Uh, it, it's not, not closeenough to, to become a really, a
marine conserv conservative, orhow do you call it in English?
(27:57):
Um, conservationist.
Yeah, conversationist.
That's right.
Yeah.
Um, so with, with our abilities, with our.
Skill, what can we do to, uh,to make an improvement to make
impact in ocean conservation?
And that's why we came up with this ideaof let's bring people together with all
(28:18):
these organizations that are actuallydoing something on ocean conservation.
And, and just that simpleidea to bring people together.
Um, that's where it started and thenit started evolving from that point on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We, we, we, someone was, you were actuallythe first one who, who understood my idea.
Right.
That was, let, let me start with that.
(28:39):
That's also a very importantmeasure before you start talking
to co-founders, you need someoneto understand what you mean.
And, and remember very clearlythat, uh, we were talking about
the, this, uh, how can we makean impact and, and where is this?
We, we both have a passion fornature, uh, conservation, uh,
and, and, and, and sustainability.
We're, uh, worried also about climatechange and, and yeah, what you can
(29:04):
do there, uh, if you, if you reallyzoom out and you look at the earth and
you see all this, this, this amazingamount of water, it, it, it's really.
Triggers this, this, this, this.
Mind of, hold on.
There's so much more than, thanwhat we see on our everyday life.
Mm-hmm.
There should be something there.
And, and, and I, I remember very clearlythat one of the convers conversations
(29:26):
I had with, uh, with, uh, with a marinebiologist who, who explained me about.
What is happening, how the ocean plays arole, how our oxygen, half the oxygen, uh,
comes from the ocean and, oh, oh, hold on.
That's, uh, there must be more.
Yes.
Uh, what is happening in this field,and I really remember that we, uh, uh,
uh, yeah, the summer, this was actuallyin collaboration with, uh, Amsterdam
(29:50):
University of Applied Science, right?
Where we talked about, okay,what is happening in this world
of ocean sustainability, uh,ocean climate change, uh, uh.
Uh, restoration initiatives,this, this, this field.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and one of the things that wenotice is, hold on, there's already 10,000
(30:11):
organizations there and, and, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Why should we do exactly the same?
We don't, we we're not this competitivepeople who want to outcompete others.
Uh, we also felt like, yeah,but this is a good idea.
There's also another good idea.
And, and, and look at thisone, what they are doing.
Right?
Yeah.
And this, this really triggered that.
Okay.
So how would it be if instead ofdoing the same thing, uh, comparable
(30:36):
thing or something that is.
Almost the same.
Why don't we do something that supportsthe whole group that would really
make a difference in scaling and, andit could also be something that's.
It differentiates in, in the fact that,uh, we don't do competition, uh, periods.
That that's a very clearappointment we made.
(30:57):
We don't do competition.
There's only collaborators and peoplewho have, if you have the right mindset,
if you have the right intentions andwant to make a difference or impact in
ocean climate change or sustainability.
You're welcome to join and, and we'remore than happy to help you with, with
visibility, awareness, and funding.
That's where we come in.
Yeah.
And yeah, and, and, and, yeah.
(31:17):
That's where we are today.
Yeah.
Well, and I think it's such a, that's a,I think it's really, um, I, I'm gonna say
this in a, I don't mean this as insult.
I was very mature of you tocome into, uh, a, a field.
Where you don't have as much experience.
You're getting to know what's going on.
You see what's available.
You see the type of organizationsthat are out there doing great
(31:40):
work and you understand and you,and you respect them to do that.
And then you sit there like,how do we play a role here?
Where, you know, we can still becollaborative, which was the reason why
you were on last time, Bart, um, andtalk about collaboration, but also like
how do we support this, this industry.
And I think it's, I think it's reallyimportant, and especially with the,
the business mindsets that you have.
(32:01):
It's like, where can we fill.
The gap.
Yeah.
You know, and, and what gap and I, andI feel like the biggest gap, and I've
seen this, I've been at this for a longtime, you know, o over 20 years, um, in
marine and freshwater biology, but alsoin communications and talking to a number
of different people and seeing how.
There are some shortcomings withinthe, the marine conservation field.
(32:22):
You know, you, when you, when yougraduate as a marine scientist or as
a conservationist, whether it be anadvocate or a lawyer and you wanna
work in, it could be any field really.
As you know, any field cango into marine conservation.
It's a hard thing to do to start acareer because, you know, you can go
to government, you can go to nonprofitorganizations, you can go to private
(32:43):
consulting and, and, and do it that way.
Yeah.
But it all depends on the fundingthat's around, you know, even in
government, there's, it is notguaranteed, you know, as we see,
like in Canada, in the past when a.
A specific party gets in,they, they decide to cut all
the environmental positions.
Yeah.
Or they, because they don'twant to have to deal with that.
And we're seeing that mm-hmm.
In the, in the US at this point.
(33:04):
And Yeah.
And, uh, and it's, it's very, it's,it's very interesting to come in and,
and the, the gap that I've seen isthose, those people who don't fit
within that, those three pillars.
It's these, these independent people.
Who have great projects, um, whohave like great ideas and great
products, but they just don't havethe ability to get the funding to
(33:26):
get those projects moving forward.
Oh, yeah.
Which could have a significant impact,whether it be locally, regionally, or
even nationally or internationally.
And I feel like that's whereyou guys really fit in.
Yeah.
And, and I like that.
Yeah.
In, in a way, what is, we take a lot ofinspiration actually from what we've seen.
Right.
I mean the, the, the,the, the people are there.
(33:46):
The solutions are there.
Technology has never been the issue.
So what is stopping us and, and wefound out is, is very much about.
Many people don't evenknow what is possible.
No.
Mm-hmm.
And this is where we want to playa role in how can we make people
aware of how things are possible?
And, and if you know that thingsare possible, if you feel inspired,
(34:07):
of course, uh, you, you, youwant to be part of solutions.
You want to be on the good side.
You want to help, you want tosupport and, and make a difference.
And, and this is where we built a bridgebetween society and impact makers.
Like, like in your example, uh, it, it.
It could be anyone, uh, a student, uh, uh,uh, uh, someone who retired and follows
(34:27):
his, his or her passion, or entrepreneurs.
Uh, uh, there's so many people who haveamazing ideas and we feel like they should
be leveraged in what they're doing and,and, and deserve to be scaling their
efforts and, and, and, and their impact.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's a huge, uh,that's a huge part of it.
(34:48):
Um, and I, and I feellike that's interesting.
So when you got to that point whereyou're like, how do we, how do we do this?
Where did the idea come from for, or whydon't you just, maybe, why don't you just
talk about the, the goal of, of Bian.
Mm-hmm.
And then talk about like howthat idea evolved into that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what we do is we do, uh, awareness,visibility, and funding for ocean
(35:13):
impact initiatives around the planet.
And we got into this field by the, the,the sense that there's something missing.
Uh, funding is clearlyone of the biggest issues.
To, uh, make initiative skill.
And the other part is that most people,uh, normal people like me are not
(35:33):
even aware of what is already there.
So.
When we were talking about this, this,uh, I, I, I, we re I remember very
clearly Isand that we talked about.
Yeah.
Hmm.
How would it be if we bring thistogether in some sort of platform
and could we do crowdfunding?
Could we do, uh, matchmaking?
And, uh, I really remember the,the moment that you said, yeah, but
(35:53):
actually Bart, this should be combinedwith, with a, with an experience,
uh, where people can connect.
It's, it's a community.
So why don't we combine.
Funding awareness and visibilityin, in, in a community feeling
where you can feel welcome, whereyou can feel part of solutions, uh,
where you can go for an experience.
And more importantly, to be part ofthe solution no matter where you are,
(36:17):
what you, what skills you bring tothe table or what your background is.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And maybe also it's an advantagefor us not being marine
scientists, but out of the field.
Uh mm-hmm.
We, we know what the generalpeople, uh, doesn't know.
Do not know.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
They have no clue about, uh, whatorganizations there are, what they can do,
(36:39):
how they can, uh, help in, in protectingany, uh, ocean or, or sea or whatever.
Um, and yeah, I think with, with our.
Lack of knowledge in this case.
Mm-hmm.
We can maybe bring the, the, thesystem, the app, the technology
that they need to understand, okay,here's why, how I can make impact.
(37:02):
This is what I can do.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's, it's, it's been, I've been, uh,I've had the, uh, great fortune of, of
being part of, of this, of this program,you know, uh, in the, in the early stages.
Yeah.
And, and I, I, I definitely appreciatethat I've gotten to know both of you,
but I've gotten to know the otherpeople, um, in the, in the early
adopter program as, as, as you call it.
(37:22):
And it's been such a, an amazing, uh,evolution for my own way of communicating
as someone who's in communications.
It, it's, it's, it's really great.
To see.
'cause I have my own, you know, I'm, I'mstuck in like, I do this a lot on my own.
I have, I take advice frompeople that come in, but a
lot of it's stuck in my head.
And, you know, when you get stuckin your own head and you, you
think, oh, this is what the peoplewant, this is what they want.
(37:43):
But to be able to hear it from onethe both of you, um, but also your
collaboration with, with NatalieGilson, who's a communications expert
and has been friend of the podcastand been on this podcast as well.
To be able to really spell it outfor people of how we do things, why
we're doing projects from, uh, outsideof our, not only our own heads,
but outside of the marine field.
(38:04):
Because what we know as what'simportant to the marine field may
not be necessarily the prioritiesof people outside the marine field.
And to be able to sometimes justgo down to the most simplest.
Part of what we're trying to do mightbe enough to impress not only the
both of you, but also the fundersthat will be, you know, joining the
platform, supporting the platform.
(38:25):
I think that's been like a reallyeye-opening thing for me during
this process, and I'm sure tothe other, uh, early adopters.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Well, thank you.
Thanks.
First of all, a big thank youfor these, these insights.
I mean, um, we.
Sometimes we also don't know.
Right.
Of course.
We, we, we, we we'realso not communicators.
We, we both come fromengineering, remember.
(38:47):
But what I find super interestingis, is we, we kickstarted this
early adopter program and look,uh, we have an idea for a platform.
It's not that yet there, butdo you want to be part of it?
Yeah.
That's our early adopter program.
Yeah.
Uh, we're launching, uh, theplatform in October, October, 2025.
And during this program where weset up workshops, collaboration, uh,
(39:11):
knowledge exchange, and sharing, uh,with, with Natalie, uh, from, from
Pisces, uh, about ocean storytelling.
About how to, how totell what you're doing.
Yeah.
I, I was also surprised and, and, andreally encouraged by the fact how much
knowledge there already is in this group.
Uh, there was this amazing senseof, okay, let's help the others.
(39:34):
Let's help, uh, my friends, let's alsohelp, uh, other organizations who might be
on the other side of the ocean, literally.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And, and sometimes you just bringthis, this, this single thought
that I haven't thought of before.
If you open up for that, itdoesn't require, let's say,
(39:54):
myself to have all this knowledge.
If you just bring together the peopleand you create this atmosphere of
knowledge exchange of a community,uh, with the same goals for making
impact, ocean impact, that is, thatreally brings in a lot, uh, lot of,
uh, powerful forces and, and, um, yeah.
Uh, we feel like, uh, we aredefinitely on the right path
with now 11 o organizations.
(40:16):
But, um.
We're, we're scaling and the morepeople, the more initiatives, the more
organizations we bring to the table,the more, the more visitors we have,
the more powerful this collaborationand knowledge exchange becomes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Why don't you let people know, uh, youknow, we've talked about what Valiant
is and what's what it's trying to do.
(40:37):
Uh, for the people in the audiencewho are, you know, early career
researchers, they're scientists,they're, they're engineers, they're
people of all different backgrounds.
People who want to know howthey can help protect the ocean.
Um.
From a, like once theplatform launches, yes.
How can they, they help other thansharing the platform, of course, but how
can they help, uh, support the platformand, and the projects that are there?
(40:59):
Like, what does it look like for themwhen they like the ideal, when they go
to the, to the site, into the platform?
We, we are building a minimum viableproduct now, so the, the, the very
bare functionality which entailshaving the projects, all these
organizations that have their projects.
On the platform, and you can read aboutwhat they're doing, what impact they
are making, and then you can donate.
(41:20):
So the, the best way to help both Bian andthose organizations is to donate, right?
Uh, that's the first step, right?
And, uh, okay.
The organizations need their money.
They really, uh, need, uh, some fundingto make more impact, but also bian needs
to grow, needs to scale up, needs to,uh, also require some money to do that.
(41:41):
Uh, so we also ask for, uh, a tip.
On top of the donation, uh, for us, ofcourse, uh, that that's the first thing.
But yeah, uh, that'sonly a starting point.
This is where the journey starts.
From there onwards, we havelike an, a huge amount of ideas.
Think about, uh, okay, uh, contact thoseorganizations directly in, in like a,
(42:02):
a con command or chat functionalitywhere you can talk to those people
and ask if they need more help.
Think about, uh, things like citizenscience where people can provide.
Content, data, images, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
Um, we, we haven't thought aboutit, what the details are, but, uh,
they can provide that, add that tothe platform, and we can mm-hmm.
(42:23):
Sort of process that and, um, uh,give out, give back the data from it.
Yeah.
Um, think about, uh, people ororganizations, not only, uh.
Projecting their idea, their projectsthat they're working on, but also maybe
events, volunteering events that they haveor volunteering work that they require,
(42:46):
and then people can directly apply tothose events or those volunteering jobs.
So yeah.
May maybe your, maybeyour next job is there.
Eh?
Yes.
It, it, who knows?
We have been, uh, we have beenvery, that was very interesting is
that as soon as we started and themoment we had our website live.
We have volunteers helping us.
Yeah.
People we never met before, andsuddenly they're part of the team.
(43:10):
And, and, and that's also somethingwhere we feel like, okay, this is
something where we can make a difference.
If you feel like, Hmm, I want tobe part of it, uh, I would like to
contribute to an initiative in Mexico,in, in the Netherlands or in Canada,
uh, and support them financially.
Perfect.
Yeah.
If you feel like, hmm, it'saround the corner, I can help.
Or it's not around the corner, but Ican help remotely, uh, supporting them.
(43:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, there's a lot of ways how youcan, how you can actually Yeah.
Be part of, of, of bringingsolutions and, and, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and, yeah.
Uh, but it's experience as well.
Yeah.
Uh, uh, stories, ocean stories.
There's so many people who justhave a passion for the ocean.
Uh, they, they, they live onthe ocean sometimes, literally.
Uh, yes.
(43:53):
Uh, uh, write stories about it.
Uh, podcast.
I know someone who does podcasts.
Yes, there is, there are somany people who, who really.
Care about what we're doing.
Uh, we did not get this justfrom our market research.
We really experienced firsthandhow much passion there is and, uh,
absolutely passion that deserves to beshared, uh, with like-minded people.
(44:14):
Yeah, I, it, I agree.
I think it that this platform, as yousaid right now, it's, it's, uh, you know,
an MVP, like a minimal viable productthat you're put, that you're putting
forth and it can build from there.
And I think.
That, that will be reallyinteresting, the, the different
possibilities that can come in.
But just the fact that, you know, theexposure for these projects that may not
have this exposure on an internationallevel, um, through this platform is
(44:36):
such a, is such an important part.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, you know, we all work within our own.
Communities within our own, sometimessilos, you know, where we're just
kinda stuck within our own, ourown people within our own network.
To be able to be part of a largernetwork that is international, uh,
is, is really important, uh, to, toall of us, you know, anybody who,
who becomes part of this platform?
(44:57):
The, the, the, the interestingquestion that I have, you know,
you, you have definitely made a, adecision, a conscious decision too.
Support international projects.
You know, we have a, a couple peoplefrom Canada, we have a couple people
like you mentioned some, some in Mexico.
Um, what, why was that like, youcould have said, we wanna stay in
like, just in the net like supportprojects in the Netherlands, which
(45:18):
took completely understandable.
You know, you know the Netherlands,you, you know, it's, it's your, oh yeah.
Your home and, and your home country.
Or you could have said the EuropeanUnion just in general because there's
a lot of of connections there as well.
What made you decide, we wanna pro, wewant to open this up internationally.
Yeah, I, I think there's a fewthings that, that really, uh,
(45:38):
uh, that we really noticed.
Uh, I remember that we were in, uh,November 23, uh, we were at Ocean
Ovation, which happens to be in theHague in, in the Netherlands at the time.
And the first thing you noticeis that there's a really, really
international environment.
Mm-hmm.
It's not like if there is aninitiative from, uh, let's say, uh,
from, uh, from from Canada, thatit's only Canadians working there.
(45:59):
Uh, right.
And, and, and the samefor, for the Netherlands.
So it's really international.
It's very diverse.
Uh, there you see all kinds of people, uh,uh, you, you've never met before, but they
have the same passion for Ocean impact.
On the other hand, um, we in moderntimes, uh, sander has been to Australia
(46:20):
and he got this trigger for, oh,hold on, this is something big.
We really felt like, Hmm.
Uh.
Sometimes the inspiration also comesfrom where you've been and mm-hmm.
You might have been on holidayin Portugal, uh, where you
got your inspiration, hold on.
There's something great happening here.
Um, and you start caring for anenvironment or certain field where
(46:43):
you, where you don't come from, whereyou don't live, but you just know the
place and you start caring for it.
Mm-hmm.
So it really breeds likethis, this, this whole.
International, global, uh, uh, uh,collaboration, uh, from the sector as a
whole, but also how the ocean is, uh, is,is experienced by, by different people.
(47:05):
Yeah.
And let's not forget, uh, the, the,the ocean is 71% of the surface
of the, of planet Earth, right?
Uh, so it's, it, it doesn't stop locally.
Everything is connected.
Uh, there is.
One large moss of water,which is all interconnected.
It's the largest ecosystem in the planet.
Yeah.
And if, if I. I'm in thewater here in the Netherlands.
(47:29):
It's the same water.
I might run into some conversationswith a marine biologist, but it's
the same water as someone who isin India or in, uh, yeah, in China.
It, um, yeah, so it, it, it reallyfelt natural to, to start exploring it.
And when we kickstarted our earlyadopter program for, for finding,
uh, organizations impact makers.
(47:51):
Um, we got very quickly alreadyapproached by people from,
uh, not from the Netherlands.
And, uh, uh, we, we never seta border to No, you should
have these or those barriers.
And we are only accepting from,from Europe or from the Netherlands.
No, we opened up, uh, see what happens.
And, uh, we, yeah, automatically and,and also, uh, to our great, uh, uh,
(48:15):
uh, enthusiasm, uh, found out thereis, uh, a very collaborative space.
Yeah, yeah.
No, absolutely.
There's, I mean, there's definitelypeople who want to Oh yeah.
To collaborate, who want tohelp, uh, who needs some help,
who needs some, this platform.
Um, and I think it's, I think it's veryimportant and I'm, I'm looking forward
to, to not only participating in it,but seeing how this platform grows not
only from the, from the launch, all theway to its growth and it's evolution.
(48:39):
I think it's something that's absolutelyneeded, uh, in this, in this field.
Um, and, and, um, I think it's,it's gonna be really great to see.
These projects get supported froma variety of different levels, as,
as all of you mentioned, right?
It's, it's not only from a fundingperspective, exposure perspective,
maybe citizen science perspective,um, maybe, you know, uh, an ability
(49:01):
to recruit people to help out,to volunteer and and so forth.
I think that's, that's really importantand get that international exposure.
So, uh, I wanna thank both of youfor, for coming on the podcast
and, and, uh, you know, telling usthis story, telling us how you met.
I have one question though.
Yeah, as as a dog owner, myself andI live in an area, a neighborhood.
That's all.
You know, a lot of dogs, like we, I Iwould say 75% of the people who in, in
(49:25):
this neighborhood own at least one dog.
Um, and a lot of the times when we'rewalking, we all know each other.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
But there's a, there's a good chancethat we know the dog's name Yes.
And more than we know the owner's name.
So how long was it before you actuallyknew each other's names and not
just your dog's names when you met?
I think in that sense it helped.
Being neighbors.
(49:45):
So, uh, right when I moved in,uh, they also welcomed us, uh, as
neighbors in the, in the neighborhood.
Nice.
So that's how that sortof came to me pretty fast.
But you're totally right.
I mean, there are so many peoplearound where I know the name of the
dog, but not the name of the person.
Yeah.
We're just like, oh,that's Chester's owner.
(50:06):
Oh, okay.
Or that's nachos owner.
Yeah.
That's how it works.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Guys, thank you.
Sorry.
Go ahead Kurt.
No, that, that, I, I reallyrecognize what you're saying here.
It's, uh, it took me a whilebefore It was not Sandor neighbor,
but it was Sandor in my phone.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
So the, the last name is what I, whatI was, uh, thinking Andrew is, um.
(50:27):
Uh, now that we have, uh,our launch coming up, yeah.
It might be a nice idea to, to, uh,uh, host some of the, uh, participants
in, in the podcast as well.
I mean, absolutely.
We are doing, we're doingsome nice work there.
They have some amazing stories to tell.
Yes.
So perhaps this could be a nice, uh,starting point as well, and, um, so that
people can also get to know the founders,uh, the, yeah, the, the initiative
(50:49):
takers, the scientists behind it.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's something that,you know, we've discussed
for quite some time and yeah.
To be able to bring them on the podcastand to be able to get, help them get
that exposure, and then for that Yeah.
You know, interview to live onthe, on the website and, uh, so
that people can get to know themfor, you know, for time and time.
Like every time they come tothe site, they can, they can
read their founder story Yeah.
(51:09):
And their story.
Yeah.
And the project story.
So I think that's a,that's a, a, a definite.
A bonus, uh, for, for everybody,you know, for myself, yeah.
For you guys, for, for the, theproject and for the people, um, that
we're, that we're gonna be offering.
So I think that's, that'salways, that's always wonderful.
I can't wait to do this.
I can't wait to see the launch.
Uh, yes.
And we'll have you back on as we launchso that we can get people to participate
(51:31):
and to, to really get in there.
But, uh, I wanna thank you bothfor, for coming on the podcast
and sharing, sharing this story.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
Thank you for, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah, it was really nice, uh, tohave this, uh, um, this opportunity.
Absolutely.
Thank you Barton Saer for joiningus on today's episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
That was great to have you on.
Great to hear your founder's story.
(51:53):
If you wanna know more about bian,you can go to bion B-A-L-E-A n.org.
That's B-A-L-E-A-N.
Dot org.
Uh, you can check out this dynamicwebsite, which is changing day by
day, and it's something that I feelis very important for you to check out
and look at, you know, in the future.
This is not just now, butlook at in October when they
(52:14):
launch, but also in the future.
It's gonna be great to see how thisplatform is going to build and how
it's going to grow as we go along.
Some of the things I thoughtwas really cool is, you know
how both of these gentlemen.
Evolved in their careers and evolved intodoing something with meaning for them.
Everybody has their own meaning.
Everybody has their own purposeand everybody has something
(52:35):
that's important to them.
For Saunders and Bart, it was, Hey,let's do something great for the ocean.
Let's do somethingmeaningful for the ocean.
And I think it was great thatthey're walking along the coastline.
Walking with their dogs as I met throughthe dogs, as you know, I have two dogs
that, you know, I meet a lot of peoplethrough here where I know more the
dog's names than the owner's names.
For most part, that's our neighborhood.
(52:55):
Uh, we have so many dogs, but youknow that dogs bring people together.
I'm telling you it'sa great social aspect.
And they're also great pets.
They're great companions.
They get.
To be part of the family pretty quickly.
But you know, it was reallyinteresting how that brought
these two individuals together.
Fate brought them togetherin terms of moving in across
the street from each other.
They start talking, they start welcomingeach other in the neighborhood, shows how
(53:16):
community can grow something really great.
And then they're like, let'slook at something here.
Let's look at the ocean.
Where can we help the best?
And it's not to say, Hey, we'rejust gonna start an organization.
We're gonna put our own programs together.
We're gonna just kind of bombard analready busy and cluttered field.
But we're going to do something whereit's like there are so many people
who are doing great projects, theyjust need a little bit more support,
(53:36):
or they need a lot of support.
Let's be able to provide that for them.
Let's create a platform.
We can provide that for 'em.
Provide them with exposure, providethem with funding, give them the
tools that they need to get both.
And I think that's great.
And I love the platform.
I've loved my experience so far.
Both of these guys and Bian and undertheir early adopters program, they
have great vision, great insight, verycollaborative, very friendly, which you
(53:58):
don't get all the time, unfortunately,in this field, but we got it with them.
So I wanted to have them on the podcastand be able to share those stories.
And of course, we'll also sharewhen they launch and we'll have
them back on to talk about that.
And.
You know what kind of projects we can do.
We'll also have some of thefounders of these projects on to
talk about their projects as well.
So you'll get to know these individualsand projects that have teams.
(54:19):
So I think it'll be a lot of fun.
So anyway, that's something tolook forward to in the future,
but I wanna thank you so much.
If you have any questions or comments,you can put them in the comments
below if you're watching this onYouTube, or you can just contact.
Either on Instagram through DM at How toProtect the Ocean, or you can go to the
website, speak up for blue.com/contact.
If you feel out the form goesright to my email, I'd be more
(54:39):
than happy to answer you back.
I wanna thank you again for joiningme and listening to this episode and
all the other episodes that we've had.
We've had a bump in numbersover the summer, especially
on YouTube, which is great.
And of course on audio is always wonderfulto have everybody in the audience.
We're expanding.
We're building this community andgrowing this community for more
people to learn about the oceans.
Basically what we wanna do here isprovide a resource for people who wanna
(55:02):
learn more about the ocean and changehow we can live for a better ocean.
That's the tagline.
That's what we live by here.
And I wanna thank you so much.
So thank you so much for joiningme on today's episode of the How
to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
I'm your host, Andrew Lewin fromthe True North Strong and Free.
Have a great day.
We'll talk to you next timeand happy conservation.
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