May 28, 2024 • 23 mins
In episode 160 of Imagine Otherwise, host Cathy Hannabach interviews Amber Rose González, Felicia Montes, and Nadia Zepeda—three legendary feminist artists, activists, and scholars from the genre-defying, transnational feminist of color collective Mujeres de Maiz.
Amber, Felicia, and Nadia are also editors of a new book called Mujeres de Maiz en Movimiento: Spiritual Artivism, Healing Justice, and Feminist Praxis, which was recently published by the University of Arizona Press.
In their conversation, Amber, Felicia, and Nadia share their journey with Mujeres de Maiz and the collective liberation the group is building.
They chat about how the book publishing process builds on their longstanding practices of making publishing more accessible and collaborative, embodying the political and ethical commitments found across their art and activism as well.
They also discuss how intergenerational knowledge transmission and other forms of community education dovetail with classroom teaching to create radical spaces of learning.
Finally, they close out the conversation with Amber, Felicia, and Nadia’s vision for a world in which many worlds are possible and how Mujeres de Maiz collectively brings those worlds into being.
Teaching guide with transcript and show notes: https://ideasonfire.net/160-gonzalez-montes-zepeda
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to Imagine Otherwise, thepodcast about bridging art, activism,
and academia to build more just futures.
I'm your host, Cathy Hannabach, andtoday I have on the show Amber Rose
González, Felicia Montes, and NadiaZepeda—three legendary feminist artists,
activists, and scholars from thegenre -defying transnational feminist
(00:26):
of color collective Mujeres de Maiz.
Amber, Felicia, and Nadia are alsothe editors of a new book called
Mujeres de Maiz en Movimiento: Spiritual Artivism, Healing Justice, (00:34):
undefined
and Feminist Praxis, which was justpublished by the University of Arizona
Press and indexed by Ideas on Fire.
I am incredibly excited to bringthese fantastic folks on the show
as both the book and the collectivefrom which it springs are in many
ways the quintessential exampleof the art, activism, and academia
(00:58):
braid that's at the heart ofImagine Otherwise and Ideas on Fire.
In our conversation, Amber, Felicia,and Nadia share their journey with
Mujeres de Maiz and the collectiveliberation that the group is building.
Traversing poetry, performance,zines, healing ceremonies, visual art,
autoethnography, and a plethora of othermediums, these scholars and artists
(01:22):
demonstrate the power of collaborationand intersectional solidarity.
We chat in the episode about howthe book publishing process builds
on their longstanding practices ofmaking publishing more accessible and
collaborative, embodying the politicaland ethical commitments found across
their art and activism as well.
We also discuss how intergenerationalknowledge transmission and other
(01:46):
forms of community educationdovetail in some interesting ways
with classroom teaching, often tocreate radical spaces of learning.
Finally, we close out theconversation with Amber, Felicia,
and Nadia's vision for a world inwhich many worlds are possible, and
how Mujeres de Maiz collectivelybrings those worlds into being.
(02:08):
I'm really excited to have you allon the show today to talk about this
fantastic book that I think is such astunning tribute to the work that you
all have been doing with Mujeres de Maizover the past two and a half decades.
What's the story behind youall deciding to put that
together into a book like this?
Well first of all,thank you for having us.
(02:29):
Second, Mujeres de Maiz has beenan art and wellness organization
over the last 27 years.
And from the very beginning, in ourfirst year, we knew something was very
different and something was reallyimportant about documenting and making
sure that we had to keep sharing this,the energy, the transformation of not
(02:52):
only the participants but people inthe audience or people watching, seeing
the exhibits or hearing performances.
It was transformational in such animportant way that many of us felt
like it needed to be documented.
So we started to write about it—atthat time we were in college—in college
papers or in short mini documentaries.
(03:15):
We just knew that itneeded to be documented.
Thank you, Felicia, for alwayssetting the foundation for us.
I was invited a little bit after by Amberand Felicia to help co-edit the piece.
Mujeres de Maiz, like Felicia said,has been documenting, has been creating
these like DIY zines, self-published.
So part of the work that we wantedto do in the book was also highlight
(03:38):
the 25 years of work that hasbeen written in the community.
And part of that was editing so we kindof can show the breadth of the topics the
communities that have been part of us.
People assume that Mujeres de Maiz isjust Chicana, Chicanx, Latinx, Latina
women, but this organization started asa women of color, femme of color space.
(03:59):
So also honoring that multi- ethnicsolidarity movement in the book as well.
A lot of us are academics too, so we'vebridged community and academic spaces
by organizing with Mujeres de Maiz, butalso writing about the work that we've
been doing , for the last couple of years.
Yeah, and I think maybe the one thingthat I'll add is because Mujeres de
(04:20):
Maiz is so many things, we wanted tomake sure the book was as close of a
representation to that as possible.
So it's very interdisciplinary.
It's intergenerational in termsof the contributors, artists,
writers, scholars, activists.
(04:41):
There's visual art, there'spoetry, testimonio, and a
feminist of color writing style.
Even the scholarship is veryinterdisciplinary mixed media.
It's prose and poetry and scholarlyresearch interwoven together.
And so we were, I think, very intentionalsince the inception of the project
(05:06):
to try our best to represent theorganization and the worldviews and
the values and the cultural production.
It was really hard to represent all ofthat on paper because it is so vibrant
and so alive and almost ephemeral in a waybecause it's, you know, performance and
music and interacting with one another.
(05:28):
So we were really intentional totry to capture the spirit of that
in the writing and the artwork.
I think what was really key is that allof us wrote either about our own work or
were studying Mujeres de Maiz in some way.
So Nadia and Amber did theirdissertations on Mujeres de Maiz.
So, there was so much information,both from the heart work, the art
(05:50):
work, the poetry, and the prose, butalso these studies and research and
case studies and interviews, oralhistories, and so it was really important
to kind of place that all together.
I think it's lookingtowards the next 25 years.
One of our legacy projects is this book.
That trans-genre element is certainlyever present in this text and certainly
(06:12):
in the various projects that thecollective has worked on over the decades.
What are some of the most memorableprojects for you individually,
or maybe as a group, that you'veworked on with the collective?
I know it's hard to choose,
. So I'll, I'll maybe start with one that I was inspired by and didn't participate
in, and maybe ask Felicia to comment on.
(06:32):
So I think one that I've been veryinspired by is really at the foundation
of Mujeres de Maiz in terms of beingan inspiration and influence, is the
encuentro between Chicanx artistsand activists on the East Side of
Los Angeles and Zapatistas in Mexico.
I came on a little bit later almost adecade after the organization had been
(06:56):
started, but that is still ever present.
Yeah, I think it was really key.
I mean, we go back to like that seedof Mujeres de Maiz, to the kernel.
We were in college, we organizedan encuentro or a gathering in
Mexico, in Chiapas, Mexico with theZapatistas, but it was all based on art.
Women were at the forefrontof organizing that.
A lot of Mujeres de Maiz went there.
(07:17):
It has been throughout a really, reallyimportant foundational moment movement for
us that continues through art, activism,the way we organize collectively, etc.
So, it was really, really big.
There have been others, I thinkindividually, we can share some of them.
But I know one was our own20th anniversary retrospective.
(07:38):
We created our own exhibition andthen were hosted and supported with
and curated along with La Plazade Cultura y Artes, which is a
museum in downtown Los Angeles.
I think that was really keybecause it honored our 20 years.
It was the first time we receivedgrants, to support that work.
It showed again the legacy, thedifferent generations and people.
(08:01):
That was one of the big ones for me.
Yeah, I would like to echo what Amber did.
So I want to talk a little bitfirst about one of the events
that I participated in that reallytransformed the way I saw myself and
kind of my view of the organization.
So in 2014, Felicia gathered us togetherand she invited Atava [Garcia Swiecicki],
who is an herbalist and curanderawho works really closely with other
(08:21):
herbalists and curanderas in Mexico.
We did a cycle of four.
So we did it for four weekends and we wereable to learn different kind of healing
modalities and kind of have conversationswith each other and reconnect to
an ancestral, wellness practice.
And I think it really allowed for a lotof us to get close but also to allow
us to have agency toward our healing.
(08:42):
And I think that also spoke a lotto why I also pursued the research
project that I did with Mujeres deMaiz, specifically looking at their
work at their monthly full moon circles.
It really shifted how I saw myself, butalso that, you know, this collective
that had been historically known fortheir art and activism moved to this
modality of our own wellness and healing.
(09:04):
So that was a really beautiful spacethat really shows how multifaceted
Mujeres de Maiz is as well.
There are so many memorable projects,but I think one that really brings me
joy to reflect on is the time where Ibrought Felicia and Lisa Rocha, a jewelry
(09:24):
designer to do a Cultura ConsciousFEshion Show—like fe as in faith.
Alicia Montes was our featured designerwhen I was in graduate school at UC
Santa Barbara, and it was part of aservice-learning project that I had my
students organize with Mujeres de Maiz.
The students participated as role models,in the show, and I am still in contact
(09:51):
with some of those students today becauseof their participation in that class.
It's probably almost 15 years ago, and itjust made such a strong impact on them.
We organized the event at Casa de la Raza,in Santa Barbara on the east side, and
so that was a really beautiful, memorableevent to be able to bring Mujeres de
Maiz to my community at the time in SantaBarbara and create that experience for the
(10:17):
students and the local community there.
Teaching is something that I'venoticed runs through all of the
examples that you just described,but also most of the examples in the
book, which is really interesting.
I'd love to talk more about the roleyou see teaching playing in art and
activist movements, both the ones youtrace in the book but also the broader
(10:37):
work of the Mujeres de Maiz collective.
Yeah, I can, I can start with that.
So, as you said, many of us areeducators, are teachers, and many
of us have become that in a moreformal higher ed or K–12 sense.
We've all always been teachers andlearners in our communities, but
(10:59):
many of us have become teachersin the process while also being
members of Mujeres de Maiz.
Our understanding of teaching andlearning and pedagogy is pretty expansive.
There's a really robust scholarshipon Chicana pedagogy, pedagogy of
the home and the community, and theways intergenerational knowledge
(11:21):
is transmitted through culturalpractices, through arts practice.
A lot of the spaces that we curate,whether that's a live art show, an
exhibit or, for example, the fashion show,there's always a component of teaching and
learning and really co-creating knowledge.
(11:42):
So, I think I can speak for us allwhen I say we don't necessarily
see ourselves as like the teacherswho have all this knowledge.
We're creating knowledgetogether in community.
We learn so much from our students, fromthe participants, from our peers, from
folks who have written for our zine.
(12:04):
Even if there isn't like live interactionwith people, like, for example, in
the zine, we're still learning fromeach other, reading the pieces and
organizing it and putting it together.
So teaching and learning, I think, isa really important piece of what we do.
I would also like to add thatwithin our communities, we also
(12:25):
have these radical spaces forpopular education that move beyond
university or institutional walls.
That's something I really appreciate aboutMujeres de Maiz, too, that part of our
programming has been to create workshops,skill sharing knowledges, book clubs that
we offer to community that really movebeyond institutional walls and allows for
(12:46):
folks to learn new skills or to be partof important conversations that aren't
necessarily, tied to the ivory tower.
Yeah, one of the things that we wantedto do, and why we started doing the
zines in 1997 and doing the events, isto make it accessible for those who would
never get to college, who weren't everable to take an ethnic studies course.
Many of us, our community, familymembers, friends, were not able to
(13:09):
get to college, were pushed out, akadropped out, or those kind of things.
And so sharing something that welearned in a poem from a 300-page
book or from articles that wewere reading in our classrooms.
And how could we share thatin like a one-page scene or an
image, a painting, or a poem?
We wanted to make it accessibleas much as we can and use
(13:31):
art as a tool for education,empowerment, and transformation.
I believe that's really what we startedto do with the magazine and the events
is began to talk about some of those keytopics and ideas in a more accessible
way and a short way, a way that wasoften free and came to the community,
the streets, or the neighborhoods.
And I know, I also want to add,we're all educators, right?
(13:53):
We still teach in the university,most of us teach in the university.
So part of it too was ensuring that ourbook was accessible to students as well.
So our target audience is highschool age, early university.
And we've also been intentionalabout creating different pedagogy
or assignments or things to kindof support, especially as we're
having conversations with differentfolks, especially in California, the
(14:14):
implementation of ethnic studies inthe high schools and some universities.
So ensuring that there is stuffavailable for folks if they want to
teach local history, especially L.
A.
history.
The model of curation and editing thatthis book and your work more broadly
embodies is, I think, a really fascinatingand inspiring example of what radical
(14:35):
publishing can look like or a differentmodel of publishing that gets beyond
some of the gatekeeping structures.
And it's one of the things thatI found particularly enjoyable
about indexing this book.
I'd love to talk about where you seepublishing going in the future or
maybe where you want to see it go.
The way we started in 1997 wasreally key for us to open it up
(14:57):
and make it accessible as well.
So we knew that my cousin or the persondown the street or the tía had a poem
or knowledge base or something to sharethat was important that they wouldn't
necessarily have access to be published.
And so we put out an open call.
You know, who has information to share,who would like to share the art or
(15:18):
who would like to perform, and justkind of did a call out to community.
We did edit, but pretty much most ofthe people got in that we shared, you
know, because we thought everybodyhad something to say, and they said
it in different ways and differentexperiences, different art forms.
It was very important to showfrom beginning to established
or quote unquote professionalartists and writers of the time.
(15:40):
The zine has always shown people who arebeginning, like their very first poem
was published or the very first timethey've ever performed was at our show.
And maybe now they tour, or they havethree books of poetry and it's not to
say it's because of Mujeres de Maiz,but it was important for us to give a
stage for people or a page that theycould publish or the wall where they
(16:01):
can exhibit perhaps for the first time.
And so that was important in creating andsharing that and making it accessible.
Yeah, and maybe I'll add, injust thinking about where
we published the book.
We went back and forth and had a lotof discussion about what type of press
do we want to go with (16:22):
academic, do we want to self-publish this book
like we had been doing with the zines.
And finally we did settleon University of Arizona.
It seemed like a really good fitbecause they have a great track
record of producing feminist of colorand Indigenous texts of this nature
(16:44):
that are really intergenerational,interdisciplinary, multimedia.
The experience was really great becausethey allowed us to curate the collection.
We hosted numerous writing workshopsto get people, get their ideas
on paper, to help support them todevelop their essays and their drafts.
(17:04):
And so I think for me one of the biggestlessons or takeaways is the possibility
of the types of publishing practices,and this just felt very in line with
Mujeres de Maiz's ideology and ways ofconnecting and being with each other.
It's very supportive, veryopen, non-hierarchical.
(17:29):
And so that really translated tothe publishing process and practice.
I would like to see publishingbe like that for more people.
One of the things I'll also say is all ofus do have book-length academic writing
on this topic, on Mujeres de Maiz,and we decided not to write individual
(17:54):
books because there's only so muchone individual can say, even if you
have interviews and things like that.
So for us, an anthology was reallyimportant because we did want to feature
multiple voices and perspectives.
Even though we are talking aboutthe same organization and the same
time period, everybody has theirperspective and their memories.
(18:15):
And so it's really interesting to beable to see that come together and
tell this larger collective story.
So this brings me to my absolutefavorite question that I love closing
out every episode with, which reallygets at the heart of why you do the
kind of amazing work that you do.
I think Mujeres de Maiz is a fantasticexample of the power of this question
(18:38):
and what happens when you let peopleanswer in their own time, in their
own medium, in their own way, anddraw strength from each other.
So what is the world thatyou all are working toward?
What kind of world do you want?
So most of our work is around justice,whether it's in classroom spaces, art
spaces, about accessibility to allof the things that everybody should
(19:01):
have access to aside from food andwellness and health and education.
It's also being able tocreate through art or write.
One of the things I think is very key isthe idea that the Zapatistas mentioned
of a world where many worlds fit.
So even though, again, we'reChicana/Latinx-centric and we're
unapologetic about it, we havealways been a community where many
(19:23):
other spaces not only fit but arewelcomed and encouraged and supported.
I would say that we also have a vision oftransformative justice, of a world beyond
what we have right now, really imaginingand envisioning what that can look like.
One that is very queer, one that'sfeminist, one that really honors
(19:44):
all our lives, that takes intoconsideration our body, mind, and spirit.
So I think the work that we do inMujeres de Maiz, it really speaks to
how we're all entangled through art,activism, our wellness, social justice.
It really allows us to also imaginewhat kind of world we want to leave
or live for future generations.
(20:07):
This goes back to my first Mujeresen Maiz live art show, in 2009.
There was a neon sign art installationthat said in really bold, large
print (20:21):
Another city is possible.
And I really felt that in this space.
What I experienced as an audience memberwas this other world, even if it was
only for a few hours, it was about theways people relate to each other and
care for each other, sharing knowledge,sharing love between one another, and it
(20:48):
was in the middle of downtown LA , andthis was the LA that I knew and loved.
I knew that we were capable of makingthis world, even if it was for a moment.
And so I think that's thebeauty of Mujeres de Maiz.
It allows us to practice therelationships that we want to see.
It allows us to live inour full beingness.
(21:10):
It allows us to undo some of theharmful ideologies and harmful
ways of being that we've inherited.
I think we're working toward it by livingit and providing opportunities for other
people and inviting them into that.
I think to be able to work towardit, you have to know that it's a
(21:33):
possibility and know that it's real.
That really happened for me atmy first MDM live art show, and I
think we all in our own way can cometogether and work toward that world.
Well, thank you all so much for beinghere and sharing all of these amazing
ways that you imagine otherwise.
(21:55):
Thank you so much, Cathy.
Thank you, Cathy.
Thank you.
Thanks for joining me for thisepisode of Imagine Otherwise.
A big thanks to Amber, Felicia,and Nadia as well for sharing
their incredible stories
Their book, Mujeres de Maiz enMovimiento, is out now from the
University of Arizona Press.
(22:17):
You can discover more about the bookand grab your copy in the episode
show notes at ideasonfire.net/podcast.
There's also a detailedtranscript, related books and
interviews, and a teaching guide.
If this episode inspired you,make sure to subscribe to the
show at ideasonfire.net/podcast.
In addition to new episodes, subscribersget access to exclusive writing and
(22:40):
publishing resources, book news fromthe Ideas on Fire author community,
and invitations to interdisciplinaryevents to help you imagine otherwise.
This episode of the show was producedand edited by me, Cathy Hannabach.
Finally, you can find Ideas on Fireon social media at @ideasonfirephd,
(23:00):
where we share all kinds of resourcesto help interdisciplinary scholars
like you write and publish awesometexts, enliven public conversations,
and ultimately build more just worlds.
Welcome to Imagine Otherwise, thepodcast about bridging art, activism,
and academia to build more just futures.
I'm your host, Cathy Hannabach, andtoday I have on the show Amber Rose
González, Felicia Montes, and NadiaZepeda—three legendary feminist artists,
activists, and scholars from thegenre -defying transnational feminist
(00:26):
of color collective Mujeres de Maiz.
Amber, Felicia, and Nadia are alsothe editors of a new book called
Mujeres de Maiz en Movimiento: Spiritual Artivism, Healing Justice, (00:34):
undefined
and Feminist Praxis, which was justpublished by the University of Arizona
Press and indexed by Ideas on Fire.
I am incredibly excited to bringthese fantastic folks on the show
as both the book and the collectivefrom which it springs are in many
ways the quintessential exampleof the art, activism, and academia
(00:58):
braid that's at the heart ofImagine Otherwise and Ideas on Fire.
In our conversation, Amber, Felicia,and Nadia share their journey with
Mujeres de Maiz and the collectiveliberation that the group is building.
Traversing poetry, performance,zines, healing ceremonies, visual art,
autoethnography, and a plethora of othermediums, these scholars and artists
(01:22):
demonstrate the power of collaborationand intersectional solidarity.
We chat in the episode about howthe book publishing process builds
on their longstanding practices ofmaking publishing more accessible and
collaborative, embodying the politicaland ethical commitments found across
their art and activism as well.
We also discuss how intergenerationalknowledge transmission and other
(01:46):
forms of community educationdovetail in some interesting ways
with classroom teaching, often tocreate radical spaces of learning.
Finally, we close out theconversation with Amber, Felicia,
and Nadia's vision for a world inwhich many worlds are possible, and
how Mujeres de Maiz collectivelybrings those worlds into being.
(02:08):
I'm really excited to have you allon the show today to talk about this
fantastic book that I think is such astunning tribute to the work that you
all have been doing with Mujeres de Maizover the past two and a half decades.
What's the story behind youall deciding to put that
together into a book like this?
Well first of all,thank you for having us.
(02:29):
Second, Mujeres de Maiz has beenan art and wellness organization
over the last 27 years.
And from the very beginning, in ourfirst year, we knew something was very
different and something was reallyimportant about documenting and making
sure that we had to keep sharing this,the energy, the transformation of not
(02:52):
only the participants but people inthe audience or people watching, seeing
the exhibits or hearing performances.
It was transformational in such animportant way that many of us felt
like it needed to be documented.
So we started to write about it—atthat time we were in college—in college
papers or in short mini documentaries.
(03:15):
We just knew that itneeded to be documented.
Thank you, Felicia, for alwayssetting the foundation for us.
I was invited a little bit after by Amberand Felicia to help co-edit the piece.
Mujeres de Maiz, like Felicia said,has been documenting, has been creating
these like DIY zines, self-published.
So part of the work that we wantedto do in the book was also highlight
(03:38):
the 25 years of work that hasbeen written in the community.
And part of that was editing so we kindof can show the breadth of the topics the
communities that have been part of us.
People assume that Mujeres de Maiz isjust Chicana, Chicanx, Latinx, Latina
women, but this organization started asa women of color, femme of color space.
(03:59):
So also honoring that multi- ethnicsolidarity movement in the book as well.
A lot of us are academics too, so we'vebridged community and academic spaces
by organizing with Mujeres de Maiz, butalso writing about the work that we've
been doing , for the last couple of years.
Yeah, and I think maybe the one thingthat I'll add is because Mujeres de
(04:20):
Maiz is so many things, we wanted tomake sure the book was as close of a
representation to that as possible.
So it's very interdisciplinary.
It's intergenerational in termsof the contributors, artists,
writers, scholars, activists.
(04:41):
There's visual art, there'spoetry, testimonio, and a
feminist of color writing style.
Even the scholarship is veryinterdisciplinary mixed media.
It's prose and poetry and scholarlyresearch interwoven together.
And so we were, I think, very intentionalsince the inception of the project
(05:06):
to try our best to represent theorganization and the worldviews and
the values and the cultural production.
It was really hard to represent all ofthat on paper because it is so vibrant
and so alive and almost ephemeral in a waybecause it's, you know, performance and
music and interacting with one another.
(05:28):
So we were really intentional totry to capture the spirit of that
in the writing and the artwork.
I think what was really key is that allof us wrote either about our own work or
were studying Mujeres de Maiz in some way.
So Nadia and Amber did theirdissertations on Mujeres de Maiz.
So, there was so much information,both from the heart work, the art
(05:50):
work, the poetry, and the prose, butalso these studies and research and
case studies and interviews, oralhistories, and so it was really important
to kind of place that all together.
I think it's lookingtowards the next 25 years.
One of our legacy projects is this book.
That trans-genre element is certainlyever present in this text and certainly
(06:12):
in the various projects that thecollective has worked on over the decades.
What are some of the most memorableprojects for you individually,
or maybe as a group, that you'veworked on with the collective?
I know it's hard to choose,
. So I'll, I'll maybe start with one that I was inspired by and didn't participate
in, and maybe ask Felicia to comment on.
(06:32):
So I think one that I've been veryinspired by is really at the foundation
of Mujeres de Maiz in terms of beingan inspiration and influence, is the
encuentro between Chicanx artistsand activists on the East Side of
Los Angeles and Zapatistas in Mexico.
I came on a little bit later almost adecade after the organization had been
(06:56):
started, but that is still ever present.
Yeah, I think it was really key.
I mean, we go back to like that seedof Mujeres de Maiz, to the kernel.
We were in college, we organizedan encuentro or a gathering in
Mexico, in Chiapas, Mexico with theZapatistas, but it was all based on art.
Women were at the forefrontof organizing that.
A lot of Mujeres de Maiz went there.
(07:17):
It has been throughout a really, reallyimportant foundational moment movement for
us that continues through art, activism,the way we organize collectively, etc.
So, it was really, really big.
There have been others, I thinkindividually, we can share some of them.
But I know one was our own20th anniversary retrospective.
(07:38):
We created our own exhibition andthen were hosted and supported with
and curated along with La Plazade Cultura y Artes, which is a
museum in downtown Los Angeles.
I think that was really keybecause it honored our 20 years.
It was the first time we receivedgrants, to support that work.
It showed again the legacy, thedifferent generations and people.
(08:01):
That was one of the big ones for me.
Yeah, I would like to echo what Amber did.
So I want to talk a little bitfirst about one of the events
that I participated in that reallytransformed the way I saw myself and
kind of my view of the organization.
So in 2014, Felicia gathered us togetherand she invited Atava [Garcia Swiecicki],
who is an herbalist and curanderawho works really closely with other
(08:21):
herbalists and curanderas in Mexico.
We did a cycle of four.
So we did it for four weekends and we wereable to learn different kind of healing
modalities and kind of have conversationswith each other and reconnect to
an ancestral, wellness practice.
And I think it really allowed for a lotof us to get close but also to allow
us to have agency toward our healing.
(08:42):
And I think that also spoke a lotto why I also pursued the research
project that I did with Mujeres deMaiz, specifically looking at their
work at their monthly full moon circles.
It really shifted how I saw myself, butalso that, you know, this collective
that had been historically known fortheir art and activism moved to this
modality of our own wellness and healing.
(09:04):
So that was a really beautiful spacethat really shows how multifaceted
Mujeres de Maiz is as well.
There are so many memorable projects,but I think one that really brings me
joy to reflect on is the time where Ibrought Felicia and Lisa Rocha, a jewelry
(09:24):
designer to do a Cultura ConsciousFEshion Show—like fe as in faith.
Alicia Montes was our featured designerwhen I was in graduate school at UC
Santa Barbara, and it was part of aservice-learning project that I had my
students organize with Mujeres de Maiz.
The students participated as role models,in the show, and I am still in contact
(09:51):
with some of those students today becauseof their participation in that class.
It's probably almost 15 years ago, and itjust made such a strong impact on them.
We organized the event at Casa de la Raza,in Santa Barbara on the east side, and
so that was a really beautiful, memorableevent to be able to bring Mujeres de
Maiz to my community at the time in SantaBarbara and create that experience for the
(10:17):
students and the local community there.
Teaching is something that I'venoticed runs through all of the
examples that you just described,but also most of the examples in the
book, which is really interesting.
I'd love to talk more about the roleyou see teaching playing in art and
activist movements, both the ones youtrace in the book but also the broader
(10:37):
work of the Mujeres de Maiz collective.
Yeah, I can, I can start with that.
So, as you said, many of us areeducators, are teachers, and many
of us have become that in a moreformal higher ed or K–12 sense.
We've all always been teachers andlearners in our communities, but
(10:59):
many of us have become teachersin the process while also being
members of Mujeres de Maiz.
Our understanding of teaching andlearning and pedagogy is pretty expansive.
There's a really robust scholarshipon Chicana pedagogy, pedagogy of
the home and the community, and theways intergenerational knowledge
(11:21):
is transmitted through culturalpractices, through arts practice.
A lot of the spaces that we curate,whether that's a live art show, an
exhibit or, for example, the fashion show,there's always a component of teaching and
learning and really co-creating knowledge.
(11:42):
So, I think I can speak for us allwhen I say we don't necessarily
see ourselves as like the teacherswho have all this knowledge.
We're creating knowledgetogether in community.
We learn so much from our students, fromthe participants, from our peers, from
folks who have written for our zine.
(12:04):
Even if there isn't like live interactionwith people, like, for example, in
the zine, we're still learning fromeach other, reading the pieces and
organizing it and putting it together.
So teaching and learning, I think, isa really important piece of what we do.
I would also like to add thatwithin our communities, we also
(12:25):
have these radical spaces forpopular education that move beyond
university or institutional walls.
That's something I really appreciate aboutMujeres de Maiz, too, that part of our
programming has been to create workshops,skill sharing knowledges, book clubs that
we offer to community that really movebeyond institutional walls and allows for
(12:46):
folks to learn new skills or to be partof important conversations that aren't
necessarily, tied to the ivory tower.
Yeah, one of the things that we wantedto do, and why we started doing the
zines in 1997 and doing the events, isto make it accessible for those who would
never get to college, who weren't everable to take an ethnic studies course.
Many of us, our community, familymembers, friends, were not able to
(13:09):
get to college, were pushed out, akadropped out, or those kind of things.
And so sharing something that welearned in a poem from a 300-page
book or from articles that wewere reading in our classrooms.
And how could we share thatin like a one-page scene or an
image, a painting, or a poem?
We wanted to make it accessibleas much as we can and use
(13:31):
art as a tool for education,empowerment, and transformation.
I believe that's really what we startedto do with the magazine and the events
is began to talk about some of those keytopics and ideas in a more accessible
way and a short way, a way that wasoften free and came to the community,
the streets, or the neighborhoods.
And I know, I also want to add,we're all educators, right?
(13:53):
We still teach in the university,most of us teach in the university.
So part of it too was ensuring that ourbook was accessible to students as well.
So our target audience is highschool age, early university.
And we've also been intentionalabout creating different pedagogy
or assignments or things to kindof support, especially as we're
having conversations with differentfolks, especially in California, the
(14:14):
implementation of ethnic studies inthe high schools and some universities.
So ensuring that there is stuffavailable for folks if they want to
teach local history, especially L.
A.
history.
The model of curation and editing thatthis book and your work more broadly
embodies is, I think, a really fascinatingand inspiring example of what radical
(14:35):
publishing can look like or a differentmodel of publishing that gets beyond
some of the gatekeeping structures.
And it's one of the things thatI found particularly enjoyable
about indexing this book.
I'd love to talk about where you seepublishing going in the future or
maybe where you want to see it go.
The way we started in 1997 wasreally key for us to open it up
(14:57):
and make it accessible as well.
So we knew that my cousin or the persondown the street or the tía had a poem
or knowledge base or something to sharethat was important that they wouldn't
necessarily have access to be published.
And so we put out an open call.
You know, who has information to share,who would like to share the art or
(15:18):
who would like to perform, and justkind of did a call out to community.
We did edit, but pretty much most ofthe people got in that we shared, you
know, because we thought everybodyhad something to say, and they said
it in different ways and differentexperiences, different art forms.
It was very important to showfrom beginning to established
or quote unquote professionalartists and writers of the time.
(15:40):
The zine has always shown people who arebeginning, like their very first poem
was published or the very first timethey've ever performed was at our show.
And maybe now they tour, or they havethree books of poetry and it's not to
say it's because of Mujeres de Maiz,but it was important for us to give a
stage for people or a page that theycould publish or the wall where they
(16:01):
can exhibit perhaps for the first time.
And so that was important in creating andsharing that and making it accessible.
Yeah, and maybe I'll add, injust thinking about where
we published the book.
We went back and forth and had a lotof discussion about what type of press
do we want to go with (16:22):
academic, do we want to self-publish this book
like we had been doing with the zines.
And finally we did settleon University of Arizona.
It seemed like a really good fitbecause they have a great track
record of producing feminist of colorand Indigenous texts of this nature
(16:44):
that are really intergenerational,interdisciplinary, multimedia.
The experience was really great becausethey allowed us to curate the collection.
We hosted numerous writing workshopsto get people, get their ideas
on paper, to help support them todevelop their essays and their drafts.
(17:04):
And so I think for me one of the biggestlessons or takeaways is the possibility
of the types of publishing practices,and this just felt very in line with
Mujeres de Maiz's ideology and ways ofconnecting and being with each other.
It's very supportive, veryopen, non-hierarchical.
(17:29):
And so that really translated tothe publishing process and practice.
I would like to see publishingbe like that for more people.
One of the things I'll also say is all ofus do have book-length academic writing
on this topic, on Mujeres de Maiz,and we decided not to write individual
(17:54):
books because there's only so muchone individual can say, even if you
have interviews and things like that.
So for us, an anthology was reallyimportant because we did want to feature
multiple voices and perspectives.
Even though we are talking aboutthe same organization and the same
time period, everybody has theirperspective and their memories.
(18:15):
And so it's really interesting to beable to see that come together and
tell this larger collective story.
So this brings me to my absolutefavorite question that I love closing
out every episode with, which reallygets at the heart of why you do the
kind of amazing work that you do.
I think Mujeres de Maiz is a fantasticexample of the power of this question
(18:38):
and what happens when you let peopleanswer in their own time, in their
own medium, in their own way, anddraw strength from each other.
So what is the world thatyou all are working toward?
What kind of world do you want?
So most of our work is around justice,whether it's in classroom spaces, art
spaces, about accessibility to allof the things that everybody should
(19:01):
have access to aside from food andwellness and health and education.
It's also being able tocreate through art or write.
One of the things I think is very key isthe idea that the Zapatistas mentioned
of a world where many worlds fit.
So even though, again, we'reChicana/Latinx-centric and we're
unapologetic about it, we havealways been a community where many
(19:23):
other spaces not only fit but arewelcomed and encouraged and supported.
I would say that we also have a vision oftransformative justice, of a world beyond
what we have right now, really imaginingand envisioning what that can look like.
One that is very queer, one that'sfeminist, one that really honors
(19:44):
all our lives, that takes intoconsideration our body, mind, and spirit.
So I think the work that we do inMujeres de Maiz, it really speaks to
how we're all entangled through art,activism, our wellness, social justice.
It really allows us to also imaginewhat kind of world we want to leave
or live for future generations.
(20:07):
This goes back to my first Mujeresen Maiz live art show, in 2009.
There was a neon sign art installationthat said in really bold, large
print (20:21):
Another city is possible.
And I really felt that in this space.
What I experienced as an audience memberwas this other world, even if it was
only for a few hours, it was about theways people relate to each other and
care for each other, sharing knowledge,sharing love between one another, and it
(20:48):
was in the middle of downtown LA , andthis was the LA that I knew and loved.
I knew that we were capable of makingthis world, even if it was for a moment.
And so I think that's thebeauty of Mujeres de Maiz.
It allows us to practice therelationships that we want to see.
It allows us to live inour full beingness.
(21:10):
It allows us to undo some of theharmful ideologies and harmful
ways of being that we've inherited.
I think we're working toward it by livingit and providing opportunities for other
people and inviting them into that.
I think to be able to work towardit, you have to know that it's a
(21:33):
possibility and know that it's real.
That really happened for me atmy first MDM live art show, and I
think we all in our own way can cometogether and work toward that world.
Well, thank you all so much for beinghere and sharing all of these amazing
ways that you imagine otherwise.
(21:55):
Thank you so much, Cathy.
Thank you, Cathy.
Thank you.
Thanks for joining me for thisepisode of Imagine Otherwise.
A big thanks to Amber, Felicia,and Nadia as well for sharing
their incredible stories
Their book, Mujeres de Maiz enMovimiento, is out now from the
University of Arizona Press.
(22:17):
You can discover more about the bookand grab your copy in the episode
show notes at ideasonfire.net/podcast.
There's also a detailedtranscript, related books and
interviews, and a teaching guide.
If this episode inspired you,make sure to subscribe to the
show at ideasonfire.net/podcast.
In addition to new episodes, subscribersget access to exclusive writing and
(22:40):
publishing resources, book news fromthe Ideas on Fire author community,
and invitations to interdisciplinaryevents to help you imagine otherwise.
This episode of the show was producedand edited by me, Cathy Hannabach.
Finally, you can find Ideas on Fireon social media at @ideasonfirephd,
(23:00):
where we share all kinds of resourcesto help interdisciplinary scholars
like you write and publish awesometexts, enliven public conversations,
and ultimately build more just worlds.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.