July 18, 2025 • 62 mins
This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Gabriel Teodros, MC, poet, educator, organizer, and community time traveler, to talk about how we carry grief, make art, and stay human when the world’s on fire (sometimes literally). Gabriel takes us from losing his home in a blaze to creating From the Ashes of Our Homes, his most personal album yet. And along the way, he unpacks what it means to do “love work” in a world built to erase us. We get into the big stuff: why silence in the face of genocide isn’t just complicity, it’s consent. Why joy isn’t a luxury, it’s resistance. And why solidarity isn’t a social media post, but something you live, build, and dance to. This isn’t just a convo about music. It’s about using every beat, bar, and breath to fight back. Come for the rhythm, stay for the revolution.
Mentioned in the episode:
All About Love, bell hooks | Lovework | Khalil Gibran, The Prophet | Denizen Kane | Gabriel Teodros - From the Ashes of Our Homes | Gabriel Teodros - An Open Letter to My Cousins in Israel | Palestine Will LIve Forever Festival | Andrea Gibson | The Undocumented Socialist Alien who Keeps Saving America by Marcus Harrison Green in The Stranger | Tikun Olam
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Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gabriel Teodros (00:00):
I think other people's silence is what makes it dangerous
(00:03):
for those of us who do speak up.
If more of us spoke up, if thatbecame the norm, if chanting down a
genocide was the norm in this country,it wouldn't be dangerous for anyone.
Nora Kenworthy (00:22):
Welcome back to In the Meanwhile where the vibes
are bad, the news is worse, andyet somehow we're still here.
I'm Nora Kenworthy.
Marcus Harrison Green (00:30):
And I'm Marcus Harrison Green.
You know, Nora, do you ever wake up andfeel like you're living in a mashup of
Black Mirror Children of Man and MethodMan's to Cow 2000 album, but without
the production budget are the healing?
Nora Kenworthy (00:43):
I do, although it's been a while since I listened to Method Man.
Um, it's the summer of JeffBezos getting married on a yacht
the size of Bainbridge Island.
Uh, while the rest of us areout here treating happiness
like it's Sudafed locked up.
Rations suspiciously hardto get without an id.
Marcus Harrison Green (01:00):
Damn.
That is, uh, that's a, that'sa little too real, I gotta say.
But, uh, you know, no.
If we're going down, we are goingdown with a beat, which is why we're
very hyped about today's guest.
The one, the only Gabriel Teodross.
Nora Kenworthy (01:18):
If you've spent even five minutes in Seattle, or on our
radio waves, or in the south end,you know, Gabriel mc, poet educator,
radio host, sci-fi nerd, community gr.
Organizer and yeah, probably atime traveler sent back to warn
us about the perils of late stagecapitalism through spoken word.
Marcus Harrison Green: He's got me believing it. (01:39):
undefined
Let me tell you.
Um, his album from the Ashes of our Homesisn't just music, it's a field manual
for grief, resistance, and rebuilding.
I would say that it's Bell Hooksmeets Baldwin over Boom bap
Nora Kenworthy (01:54):
or like if Bell Hooks in Tupac had a baby and the baby wrapped
about Palestine and patriarchy andpushing through grief without losing joy.
Marcus Harrison Green (02:05):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Nora Kenworthy (02:07):
In this convo, we get into all of that, um, why silence is
complicity, how art can be an act ofsurvival and what it means to build
community that doesn't just mourntogether, but dances together too.
Marcus Harrison Green (02:20):
Look, I will give our listeners a content
warning because I'm gonna confronthim about ghosting my mixtape.
Back in the day, it was Soulja Boymeets Barry Manalow and I think it
could have saved hip hop personally.
Nora Kenworthy (02:32):
I feel like we're gonna need a whole
episode dedicated to that one.
Marcus Harrison Green: I appreciate that, Nora. (02:37):
undefined
I do.
But I will
Nora Kenworthy (02:39):
let you argue that point with him.
Marcus Harrison Green (02:42):
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Nora Kenworthy (02:45):
Anyway, today's conversation goes deep.
We're talking love, work, resistancethrough rhythm and what it means
to build joy even when everythingaround you is falling apart.
Marcus Harrison Green (02:55):
Let's get into,
and it gives me a great pleasureto introduce Gabriel Teodros.
Gabriel Teodros is a musician and writerfrom South Seattle who first made a
mark with a group Abyssinian Creole, andreached an international audience with his
(03:17):
critically acclaimed solo debut love work.
He has been setting stages on fireever since, all across the us, Canada,
Mexico, Cuba, Ethiopia, and South Africa,often in combination with workshops
on creative writing, music history,science fiction, and media literacy.
Gabriel, it is such a pleasureto have you on our podcast today.
(03:39):
Thank you, Marcus.
It's good to be here.
It's good to see you.
I got it is great to see you.
And before we kick everything off, man, Igotta, I gotta just get this out the way.
About eight years ago Isent you my mix tape, man.
It was, it was a cross.
It was a cross between Mc Hammer, Uhhuh,Soulja Boy, Uhhuh and Barry Manalow.
(03:59):
Oh man.
And I've, I've neverheard anything back, bro.
Is it just, did it get lost in the mail?
Was it lost in translation?
What have you?
Gabriel Teodros (04:05):
Can, can, can you send it to me again?
I want to hear it.
Okay.
That makes, sounds amazing.
Marcus Harrison Green (04:09):
I'm
I I got you after that.
I, I got you.
After the, after the episode.
That's that be.
That being said, getting into what we'rediscussing today, um, Gabe man, you
have long held that art is resistance.
Could you just talk a little bit aboutwhat that's meant for you, particularly
(04:30):
in this last year when it feels like griefis just bottomless and joy itself, just
keeping on the joy is, is a political act.
Gabriel Teodros (04:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, you know, for me, um, just growingup on hip hop music, so my family, uh,
from Ethiopia grew up in the South end.
Um, but I also was.
Born and raised in a time whenthere wasn't much of an Ethiopian
community in South Seattle.
They called me one of the first kids, asin one of the first kids born in Ethiopia.
(05:03):
My mom came here in the seventies.
There was 30 to 40 Ethiopian andenriching people in that time.
And I say that to say that hip hop helpedme understand the world that I was living
in and the one that I was growing up in.
It gave me language to describe, um, theoppression that we all were like coming
(05:23):
up against and, and what I would have toface going up through the school system.
And in the eighties, seeing the crackera, seeing the school to prison pipeline,
experiencing it for the first time in atime when my parents, well, when my mother
and, and, and, and my extended familydidn't even really understand it because
it's not the context that they grew up in.
(05:44):
They moved here, you know?
Um.
So hip hop not only explained what Iwas going through, but it also gave
me the tools to resist, you know?
And it also let me know that I wasn'talone and that I wasn't crazy for
thinking the things that I, that I wasthinking for experiencing the things
that I was experiencing, you know?
(06:04):
Um,
and the two have always beentied together for me, ever since.
Music and resistance, you know,um, not just resistance, but
to boldly claim that our life matters,you know, in a, in a, in a country
(06:25):
and a society that constantly tries toreinforce this idea that you don't matter.
You know what I mean?
And, and I think once I finallypicked up my pen and pad and
started writing my own story, um,
yeah, that was resistance too.
You know?
I was, um.
(06:46):
I was so young when I started.
I was 16 years old.
Um, I've told this story a lot,but, um, Tupac was one of my biggest
inspirations when I started writing.
Um, when he died, I had thisdream, um, I'll, I'll try
to tell a truncated version.
Um, I had a dream that Tupac was onthis underground platform, and this
(07:09):
underground platform was like a subwayor like a light rail station, but we
didn't have a light rail station yet onBeacon Hill, you know, and the station
had these windows that bled a pure light.
And PAC was on this platformwaiting to get on this train
to go to the other side of wow.
When you go to the otherside, there's no coming back.
But I knew how he could get offthe platform and come back up
(07:30):
the stairs, back to back to life.
And in my dream, I shookhis hand, you know?
And I told him like, you're theone that's supposed to lead us.
You're the one that'ssupposed to like lead.
Lead us to our liberation.
You, you've got the ears of everybody.
And he laughed and he shook hishead and he said, it's on you now.
And I woke up and he died.
And this person that my mom was datingcomes into my bedroom, says, PAC has died.
(07:54):
I just hear this, hisvoice in my head ringing.
It's on you now.
It's on you now.
And for me, that was, it was set like,this is what my life is gonna be.
Not just music, but everything thatI thought PAC was supposed to do.
It's on our generation now to takethat forward into the future, you know?
(08:14):
Um.
And if you look at who Pac was in hismusic, very, a very complicated person.
Very who, who, who contradictedhimself from song to song to song.
But he also was lifting upnames of black freedom fighters.
He was lifting up the name of MatulaShakur, who was his stepfather of
Asada, of Ger Moji, Jaga of all theseincredible black political prisoners
(08:37):
from the Panthers era because hehimself was a Panther cub, you know?
Right.
Trying to a Finn Shakur, rest in peace.
So it's like, that's thehip hop that I grew up on.
You know, that's, that's, that's themusic that inspired me to even make music.
So for me it's just, there's noseparating music and resistance.
Marcus Harrison Green (09:00):
Damn.
Might be, I mean, yeah, let's inan interview right now, because
that's the, that's how we, we Good.
We got everything.
Nora Kenworthy (09:07):
Talk about passing baton, man.
That is not a dream you can ignore.
No.
Uh,
um, I've been really inspired by a lotof your music, but I particular the
ways that you yourself describe andname your music as a form of love work.
Mm-hmm.
Um, that's the name of one of your albums.
(09:28):
What does the concept oflove work mean to you today?
Um, mm-hmm.
And I guess how is art aform of love work for you?
Gabriel Teodros (09:37):
Love work.
Yeah.
So, um, the concept of love work,uh, comes directly from bell hooks.
May she rest in peace?
Um, I'm still not over herpassing away, by the way.
Um, uh.
I read all about love, I think like alot of men do right after a breakup.
(10:00):
Yeah.
That's, that's, youain't lying on that one.
And um, and it became like, I feellike Bell Hooks is writing became
like water in a desert, you know?
Mm-hmm.
When I was like dying of thirst.
Um, and Bell hooks throughout thatseries, 'cause there's three books, um,
all about love, salvation, and communion.
(10:21):
Um, you know, she, she makes the pointthat most everything that we've been
taught about love isn't love, you know?
And to really know love, we have to undoevery system of domination that stops
people from really be being loving.
So, to know love, especially as menin the society, people who've been
socialized as men, we have to undosystems that we've internalized
(10:44):
of patriarchy, of male domination.
Uh, uh.
Homophobia, like all, all, all the systemsof domination that stop people from really
being their own, their true full selves.
So when I was working on theLove Work album, um, I was
thinking about Bell Hooks a lot.
Um, I was thinking aboutKhalil, LeBron and the prophet.
(11:07):
He said, love is work made visible.
And I never give thisbrother enough credit.
But I also was thinking of a Koreanmc from Chicago by the name of
Dennis Kim, or Dennis and Kane.
Um, he was from a crew called, I was bornwith two tongues, which I obviously felt.
Um, and another crew called typical Catsand he had this bar where he said, uh,
(11:28):
the income's quick and ego says quit.
I say, work is love.
Let my body be a brick.
You know, and that linejust hit me so, so tough.
Mm-hmm.
And I was reading the hooks at thesame time, thinking about Khal LeBron.
So I was like, yeah, love work,not love as work, but to know love.
We have to work and there's noseparating these two concepts.
(11:51):
Hmm.
You know, so that's why love workwas put together as one word.
Um, everything that inspired that album, Ifeel like has kind of been a through line
through the rest of my life, you know?
Um, particularly
(12:11):
like undoing every idea that we haveof black masculinity that stops people
from really being loving, that stops usfrom being our true selves, you know?
Um, yeah.
It's just in everything I do, you know,for me, love work is about claiming your
humanity again and again, and choosing tofight for it because the minute you come
(12:35):
become complacent, it's like you can goback to that state of unloving, I think
of it sometimes, uh, especially like.
Being taught patriarchy,you know, at a young age.
The first people we harm inpatriarchy is men are ourselves.
You know?
Um, I can't remember who said it.
(12:56):
I am quoting someone though.
There is, um, there's a form ofself-mutilation that occurs, right?
Um, men cut off their own sense ofsensuality to be okay with domination.
And I often think of it like somebodywho's overcoming an addiction.
You know, like people whoare in AA and NA programs.
(13:17):
Like, you've gotta makethat step every single day.
Like you to, you've gottachoose to go to that meeting.
You've gotta choose to, to not usetoday, you know, and you're always one
step away from, from being an addict.
Again.
I really think thatpatriarchy is the same way.
We have to choose to fight toundo these systems of domination
(13:39):
every single day, you know?
Um.
For the sake of our own humanity, andso we don't hurt other people, you know?
So that's what I think aboutwhen I think of love work.
And that's a long answer, but I thinkthe second part of your question
was how does it relate today?
I mean, that's just in everything.
Like if you look at, if you lookat this country, if you look at the
(14:00):
manosphere that has created politiciansand, and, and influential people,
like it's, it's all right there.
You know what I mean?
Like even, even in hip hop, like I'vebeen thinking about this a lot in hip hop.
Um, I see a lot of people who would bepeers turn right wing and turn fascist.
And I've seen more of them in thelast few years than any other time.
(14:24):
And for me, the warning signs have been.
Especially with artists who have beencritical of like racism or, you know,
critical of white supremacy, but theydon't go far enough to critique capitalism
or to, or to critique patriarchy andthose that become red flags for me,
when I see people don't critique thosetwo things within themselves, it's
(14:46):
like they can slide into rightwingfascism so quick because that side
is ready to embrace you, you know?
So, yeah.
Marcus Harrison Green (14:54):
Lord Jamar's broken my heart in the recent years.
Oh my gosh.
Oh my God.
But anyhow, yeah, Lord.
Anyhow, that's another, another,another conversation for another day.
Um, that being said, uh, youknow, our, our listeners have to.
Recognize right now what, what I'verecognized back when I was first starting
at out in journalism, and I remember Iused to interview you and we would joke,
(15:18):
well, well, maybe we, maybe it wasn'tmore of a joke on my end than yours, but
I I, I used to joke that I could, uh,sit with you for an hour and a half and
I could have quotes from you about that.
I could spurse out on variousstories for the next six months.
Like I could, like, whether it wasreparations or, uh, you know, Metro
Transit, an earthquake preparedness.
(15:39):
I just, let me just look upand, okay, I got something from
Gary, but I wanna ask you's.
That's
Gabriel Teodros (15:45):
called, that's called me having a DH adhd.
Not, well, it, it wasbeneficial to, to my,
Nora Kenworthy (15:50):
I want You're kind of a DH adhd.
Marcus Harrison Green (15:53):
Yes, yes.
But, but that being said, I mean, as anartist, you are so, you are a true artist.
Like, just in terms of you beingmultifaceted and not just siloed
into one to, excuse me, and notjust being siloed into one genre.
You know, whether it's speculativefiction, again, whether it's music,
right, whether it's, uh, you know,organizing, whether it's teaching.
(16:14):
And so for you, how do you know whatis the right genre, if you will, to
activate, you know, when it comes totrying to get your message across or
trying to, you know, be most effective?
You know, when it comes to thingslike resistance or organizing.
Gabriel Teodros (16:30):
Yeah, that's a Thank you for that.
Um, seriously, like, thank you for thatquestion because sometimes I feel like
it's hard for people to understand thedifferent, like mediums that I work in,
and it's hard for sometimes, I think it'shard for people to imagine any artist
(16:51):
working in a medium that's differentthan the first one they met them in.
So, for example, like I have peoplethat used to listen to my radio show on
KXP that never knew I did music at all.
Like that was a shock to themthat I created music at all, you
know, which is like the main thingthat I've done my whole life.
Um, it's just interesting.
(17:13):
Um, for me, I try not to overthink it.
Um, I'm definitely following intuition.
Um, highly garima, one ofmy biggest inspirations.
He said, tell the story that youhunger to hear in the language
that feels the most natural to you.
He was talking about filmmaking, butI think that's just a universal truth
(17:34):
for storytelling across any medium.
And that's my guiding light.
Do I hunger to hear this story?
Am I the person to tell it?
Am I able to tell it in this form?
And that's it, you know?
Um, there also is a little partof me that's curious, that likes
to do things that are hard.
For some reason, I like a challenge and.
(17:58):
Sometimes.
Sometimes that's what inspires me too.
Like, oh, I don't know how to make abeat, but I learned how, and once I
learned how, oh, I wanted to producean album, and okay, I'm gonna do
that, you know, like it's, there isan excitement in learning a new medium
too, that can go really far, you know?
Nora Kenworthy (18:17):
Yeah,
Gabriel Teodros (18:18):
absolutely.
Nora Kenworthy (18:20):
Yeah.
I've been thinking a lotas you're talking about.
What brings us joy inthese really tough times.
And I think part of that isthe joy of, of the renewal, of
learning a new thing, right?
Mm-hmm.
Of acquiring a new craftand struggling with it.
Um, and I am always inspired by peoplelike you who continue to do that struggle.
(18:41):
Um, it's
Gabriel Teodros (18:42):
fun
Nora Kenworthy (18:44):
and frustrating sometimes.
Sometimes.
Yeah.
Um, one of the reasons we wantedto chat with you is because of your
organizing work around Palestine.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you've been such an outspoken voiceon this, and you've also said that it's
been painful to watch other artists staysilent on issues with Palestine, either
(19:06):
out of fear or, um, I don't, I don't know.
I don't know why people are silent.
Yeah.
Um, but we've, we'refacing a lot of blow back.
Um, and so.
What have you learned about what ittakes for you to speak up and keep
speaking up on issues like this onewhen, you know, it's important to say
that the risk is real, um, and the, theretribution is often real for artists.
Gabriel Teodros (19:31):
Yeah.
Um, I mean, the first thing I wanna sayis that the risk and the retribution would
not be as bad as if more people spoke up.
Nora Kenworthy (19:42):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Gabriel Teodros (19:43):
Like, I think other people's silence is what makes it
dangerous for those of us who do speak up.
If more of us spoke up, if thatbecame the norm, if chanting down a
genocide was the norm in this country,it wouldn't be dangerous for anyone.
And it's such common sense, you know?
Um, so there's that.
(20:05):
Um, I don't how, I don't knowhow not to speak about it.
I really don't, you know?
Um.
I worry about people's humanity.
Who, and I wonder do they see thesame images that I see when I log into
(20:25):
Instagram, when I go on social media?
Like, are they seeing images of agenocide happening in real time?
Because I do mm-hmm.
When I, when I log into social medianow, and that's, that's not normal.
Nobody should ever be okay with that.
Nobody should ever benumb to that, you know?
Um, and it's just that simple.
(20:48):
Like I talked earlier about love work,about holding onto your humanity.
To me, speaking out against injusticeis part of holding onto your humanity.
Nora Kenworthy (21:00):
Mm-hmm.
Gabriel Teodros (21:02):
As simple as that, you know, like the more you become numb to it
and, and, and scared to speak out, like I.
I worry about your mental health.
I worry about your emotional health.
Like, I don't know how peoplecan just consume death.
Nora Kenworthy (21:18):
Yeah.
Gabriel Teodros (21:19):
And be quiet like that.
That actually boggles my mind, you know?
Marcus Harrison Green (21:23):
Yeah.
I, I am just curious because we,you know, we live in this time where
there is just so much, I'll saylike rampant dehumanization, right?
Yes.
I mean, we see it withour immigrant communities.
Uh, we see it with how I should say ourimmigrant communities are being treated.
Yeah.
And as well as other communitieshere in, in, in our country.
How can we resuscitate, ifyou will, focus this humanity?
(21:46):
Like, what, what is that going totake and what does that look like?
Gabriel Teodros (21:49):
Yeah.
Um, I think storytellingis a big part of it.
That's the big question that you asked.
I don't think I'm like, I can answerthe whole thing, you know, but I think
that storytelling is a big part of it.
Um,
and what I mean by that is.
Like speaking about Palestine forexample, it's so rare that Palestinian
(22:14):
people are interviewed on mainstreammedia in the news and television.
You know, like Mo was like thefirst show centered on Palestinian
American life and how many decadesand year, you know, like right.
That, that humanizing of peopleI think is like really important.
(22:35):
So you don't just know whothese people are in their death.
Mm. You don't.
So, you know, the complexity,the beau, the beautifulness,
the joy, everything that makesthese people, you know, amazing.
Um, I think it's important foreverybody to know each other's
humanity, to wanna fight for it.
(22:58):
You know?
I felt the same way about black peopleforever, you know, and I still do that.
Um.
You know, when it's police killing blackfolks and, and white people in the middle
of the country, just being okay with that.
I had to think about that for a long time.
Like, why, how couldanyone be okay with this?
(23:20):
Like, I do see the parallels there,you know, and I think part of it is for
so long, black humanity never reallygot to shine in its full complexity
in mainstream media, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It's like, even though there's plentymore black folks in the media, more
(23:41):
than Palestinian folks, it's still likea, a lot of times like a cartoonish
caricature, you know, especially inmainstream rap, to be quite frank.
You know, it's only until recentyears that, that a lot more complex
hip hop artists started breakingthrough the mainstream, you know?
But there was a, a dumbing downof our entire humanity and.
(24:04):
What a lot of, like the middle ofAmerica was consuming, you know?
And when you come and when youlook at what, how they've treated
Palestinian people in the media,it's like, I mean, the president uses
Palestinian as a slur, first of all.
Right?
But he's only able to do that becauseit's been decades and decades of
a project where the only time aPalestinian is mentioned in the
(24:26):
mainstream media is as a terrorist.
Right.
Their entire, their entireeverything has just been reduced
to this one thing that's like,
it's, it's, it's justdehumanizing, you know?
Yeah,
Nora Kenworthy (24:40):
yeah,
Gabriel Teodros (24:41):
yeah.
Nora Kenworthy (24:43):
Our last conversation was with, um,
Palestinian American writer, Ana.
Amazing.
Who was, I think part of what he wassaying is that the, the oppression
of Palestinians is a template for theoppression of all other people, right?
Mm-hmm.
Whether it's the ways that police.
Travel to Israel to learnhow to oppress people.
(25:05):
Mm-hmm.
Or the ways that, you know, thesame models of apartheid are used
in so many different communities.
And I think you're also telling ussomething, but also about the value
of, of unique storytelling to undosome of those templates or to make
it harder, um, to put them in place.
Gabriel Teodros (25:25):
I think, I think that a lot of oppression is held up by stories
too, you know, and stories of a missionand which stories are not being told.
You know, they work,
Nora Kenworthy (25:34):
yeah.
Gabriel Teodros (25:34):
They work together, they work hand in hand.
You can't, you can't bomb a people andhave a population be okay with it if you
didn't first tell a story about why it'sokay to bomb those people, you know?
Marcus Harrison Green (25:47):
Right.
It's what's Plato, Ibelieve who said, right.
It's storytellers whoultimately rule the world.
Right.
It is.
Gabriel Teodros (25:53):
Yep.
Marcus Harrison Green (25:54):
Yeah.
Well.
Gabriel, I want to ask you,'cause you, you know, you were
proud South Seattle Light.
Yes, yes.
As much as I am.
Yes.
Yes.
And so it's for listeners who maynot be familiar with that area of, of
Seattle, I mean, it's undergone it, Iwould say in the last 20 years, hell,
in the last two years, it's undergone.
(26:14):
Mm-hmm.
A lot of a gentrification anddisplacement and, and so on and so forth.
Um, obviously both of ushave been privy to that.
And so I want to ask you, how has yourown experience with displacement mm-hmm.
You know, from, uh, a diaspora, if youwill, how has that sort of impacted,
you know, your own outlook and howhas that informed you on the way
(26:39):
you show up for, you know, Palestineand, and other communities that are
resisting your erasure right now?
Gabriel Teodros (26:45):
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
It, I think because of that experienceof my family first experiencing
displacement when they left Ethiopia.
Then secondly, experiencingdisplacement through gentrification.
Um, it makes all of it so personal.
(27:06):
It doesn't feel like this is over there.
You know, it feels like thisis, this is history repeating.
This is a part of the same monsters thathad our people, you know, displaced.
Um, it just makes it seem all connected.
It makes me realize that it'sall connected, I should say.
(27:28):
Um, and also I think growing up inthe South End specifically helps me
see how we're all connected becausethe south end that we grew up in
was a place that was always black,native, Mexican, Chinese, Filipino,
(27:48):
Vietnamese, Cambodian, Samoan, you know?
Yeah.
There's, I had Columbian neighbors, uh.
All next door to each other.
Everybody's grandma spoke a differentlanguage, but we somehow found a
language how we could communicate witheach other as the kids of all these
different communities on the basketballcourts through hip hop at school.
(28:11):
And it's a really unique experiencewhere I think building solidarity
wasn't something that we learnedas activists when we got older.
I think building solidarity wassomething that we learned in the south
end on the playground as children.
Right, right.
Marcus Harrison Green (28:28):
I'm, there's a, there's a story.
I mean, we talk about stories.
There's always a story I tell folkswho aren't familiar with, I guess
what South Seattle, I don't wannasay used to be, but I mean the spirit
of Souths Seattle, I remember right.
Being 10 years old and, um.
I was looking out the windowat, at, uh, this gas station
that my parents were parked at.
And, uh, there's a Jewish man,he had his Yama kan. Mm-hmm.
(28:49):
And, you know, he was trying topull, you know, push his car up.
It had stopped on him.
I stalled on him.
And then you see, you know, this, uh,Muslim man come over to, to, to help him.
You see this, this one brotherwho, you know, no neck, you
know, just with the tank top.
I don't, I don't want to you, Idon't wanna assume where he was
from or what he was doing, butanyway, you see him, you see, uh,
(29:10):
this Filipino man come over, right?
Mm-hmm.
And you see all these various peoplecoming up, you know, pushing this
car like struggling together Right.
To get to Yeah.
To this destination.
And that's, that's what SouthSeattle was always to me, right.
And, and so when mm-hmm.
I travel, you know, when growingup, traveling, you know, other to
other places in the United States,you're like, oh, this is, this, this
(29:31):
isn't quite what America really is.
Right.
I know.
And it's, and you realize how specialof a place, you know, you were,
were privy to, to, to grow up in.
And it's.
Truly was a privilege.
So,
Gabriel Teodros (29:41):
yeah, I know, I know.
I'm sitting here like twothoughts, like one man.
There's so many people I didn't shout out.
Like Somali, Ethiopia, RIA,Jewish, like yeah, all of it.
Like, um, the, so the other thoughtis, um, for me, like I experienced that
it's not the way we grew up in south,the south end isn't nor the norm when
(30:03):
I'm traveling with a bunch of peoplethat I grew up with in a place like
New York City and everyone looks at uslike, how do y'all even know each other?
Why are y'all friends?
Like, this doesn't, it's justso normal to us, you know?
And then another, another experienceis, um, I have a good friend who's a hip
hop artist from, uh, Pontiac, Michigan,who spent a lot of time in Seattle.
(30:26):
And, um.
I remember one holiday, we went overto my neighbor, my neighbor D's house,
his family's Filipino, and we just,you know, we just had a family meal
over there, and he was like, thisis the first time I've eaten in a
Filipino person's house, you know?
Wow.
And I'm like, what?
How?
Like, you know, and he's like, this,this type of like, inner cultural,
(30:49):
like, just building, just doesn'thappen where he grew up, you know?
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's a trip.
It's a trip that it's not normal.
Right, right.
Nora Kenworthy (30:59):
For sure.
I think you bring a lot of that spiritto the festival that you've been mm-hmm.
Organizing.
Um, the Palestine Will Live ForeverFestival, which is now in its second year.
Yeah.
Um, and coming back to Seattle on, Ithink September 13th, is that correct?
That's right.
Gabriel Teodros (31:17):
Volunteer park.
Yeah.
Nora Kenworthy (31:18):
Yes.
Um.
You've said that this festivalis not just a party mm-hmm.
But is part of the resistance.
And so I guess I'm wondering whatyou're trying to hold space for as
you create this festival and whatyou're hoping it will bring, not
just to our, our local communities,but also to a broader conversation
among communities about Palestine.
Gabriel Teodros (31:41):
Yeah.
Um, first I wanna say I'm just one personof many that's working on this festival.
Um, the theme this year isall of us, or none of us.
And, um, and what we mean by that is, um,
is that, you know, we started thisfestival centered on Palestine, and
we're still gonna center on Palestine.
(32:02):
But with all of the different communitiesbeing targeted, especially under this
administration, it's more clear nowthan it's ever been that we don't get
free unless we all get free, you know?
Um, right.
Whether it's black people underattack, whether it's immigrants,
whether it's trans communities.
(32:24):
Um, this year we're making even more ofan intentional statement and representing
all these different communities on stage.
And we really want to model,I think, in all of my shows
since even before the festival.
Remember my friend Robbie, RobertoEscalon, said this to me, actually,
(32:45):
he said it as a compliment, but I tookit as an assignment and I don't even
know if he knows how much his wordsimpacted me, but he said that what
you do on stage is like you bring alittle bit of the world that you wanna
see in the future to life on stage.
(33:06):
He, he said that I was doing that,but I took it as an assignment of
like, no, I really need to do that.
You know?
And with the festival, that'swhat we're trying to model.
Like what freedom looks like, whatliberation looks like, what it sounds
and feels like when we're all togethertelling our stories and our full truth
(33:26):
and our full complexity and fightingfor each other and, and doing our
music with each other, you know, um,on one stage, no division, you know?
Um, I think that's, that's the missionwith the festival this, this year.
Um, if people leave from the festival,seeing that they have new allies, new
(33:52):
co-conspirators, new people to fightfor new people, new whole communities
to ride for, that's, that's the goal.
You know, I think that music musicians,we have a really particularly powerful
gift of bringing people together thatmight not see themselves in each other.
And, um.
That's what we wanna do with thisfestival is, is get people to see how
(34:16):
much they really have in common and,and how important it's for us to stand
together in this time especially.
Marcus Harrison Green (34:24):
Yeah,
Gabriel Teodros (34:24):
absolutely.
Marcus Harrison Green (34:25):
Um, you know, I remember writing about the festival
for, uh, the Stranger, uh, last year.
Thank you for that.
No, no.
It was a pleasure.
It was a pleasure.
But, um, one of the things that cameup even during that time was just
the ability to, you know, balance,you know, grief with Jubilee.
Right.
Um, in essence that it's, you know,this is what sort of life is, right?
(34:49):
It is, uh, it, it's a harmonyof, of contradiction and
complexity and so on and so forth.
And so I wanna ask you now, um.
How do you personally balance, youknow, grief with creative action?
And has art offered you a place ofreckoning or, or refuge or something
(35:11):
else entirely At this point,
Gabriel Teodros (35:14):
I just gotta say, you guys ask really beautiful
questions on this podcast.
That is a beautiful question.
Marcus Harrison Green (35:21):
I'm just trying to live up to Nora, man.
That's all you
Gabriel Teodros (35:23):
know.
Marcus Harrison Green (35:23):
But
Gabriel Teodros (35:23):
anyway, no,
Nora Kenworthy (35:24):
feel the same.
Ditto.
Both,
Gabriel Teodros (35:26):
both of y'all, both of y'all.
These are both beautiful questions.
Um, you know,
yeah, I don't know how else tochannel grief other than putting
it into creative action, you know?
Um, I think with grief, what little Iknow about it, um, is that it's something
(35:50):
that lives in your body until you find.
A way to let it go, you know?
And I think there's a lotof ways to let that go.
I think that grief comes inwaves, it hits unexpectedly.
Um,
but if you don't do something withit, it, you know, it can feel like
(36:10):
a rock in your chest, you know?
So sometimes the bestthing you can do is cry.
Um, I think it's important whenyou're grieving to move your body,
to get that, to move that energyoutta your, outta your system.
Um, but for me, I found that the bestway for me to move through grief to, to,
(36:34):
to exhale, I guess, is to, is to makeart, you know, is to write about it.
Um, a lot of times it's like I feeltrapped in a prison if I'm not able to
describe the thing that I'm inside of.
The minute I can like, describereally what I'm feeling and, and,
(36:57):
and what it is I'm inside of,I'm able to get outside of it.
You know, I have to write about it first.
I feel like I'm quoting JamesBaldwin verbatim, by the way.
He said this in the interview.
Hey, I, if you're gonnasteal still from the
Marcus Harrison Green (37:11):
best, right?
Gabriel Teodros (37:11):
It's
Marcus Harrison Green (37:11):
James.
I
Gabriel Teodros (37:12):
try to credit people when I can't eat.
Know.
Nora Kenworthy (37:18):
So I think one of the other purposes of the festival, as
I've heard you and other organizersspeak about it, is to move beyond just
perceptions of Palestinian suffering.
Yeah.
Um, and so, particularly given thatthe focus of the festival this year is
widening to include God, all these othercommunities that we are in grief with.
(37:42):
Yeah.
Right Now, what, what else doyou want to be able to convey
about the moment that we're in.
Through the music and the art andthe conversation that happens there,
Gabriel Teodros (37:55):
I wanna convey that we can and we will survive as communities.
You know, it might not be every personunfortunately, you know, but we can, and
we will survive, you know, and we can,and we will survive because of each other.
(38:15):
The more we hold onto each other, themore we support each other, the more
we look out for, for our neighbors, youknow, and our, and we can get through.
Um, I want people to gohome with that feeling.
Um, I want people to feel encouraged,to speak up, to speak out.
I want people to, to feel seen, tofeel validated in their experiences.
(38:40):
I want them to feel energy to fight.
To keep it going.
I think that's like one of thebiggest reasons we're doing it, you
know, is to give people that energyto just keep pushing when things
seem so dire and so insurmountable.
Um,
(39:02):
if it wasn't for music, I don't know.
I don't know how, how I'd beable to push forward, you know?
So I wanna share that with other people.
And, and I think, I guess, sorry,one thing I didn't say is, um,
there's music festivals that happenall, all the time, every day.
(39:23):
I think what makes this festival differentis the actual artists that we're booking.
Like we are focused on both Palestinianartists and artists who have been
unafraid to use their platform tospeak up against this genocide and
against all the different genocides.
And, you know.
(39:44):
Just shit that we're facing.
Excuse my language, you know?
That's okay.
Um, these are artists who a lotof times in this country get
censored for what they're saying.
Like, we're, we're centeringthem on purpose, you know?
Um, and I think you'resaying we don't believe
Marcus Harrison Green (40:01):
in, in freedom of speech in, in this country.
Gabriel Teodros (40:03):
Oh.
Do you think we do?
Marcus Harrison Green (40:11):
So, I mean, so I do want to ask you, I mean mm-hmm.
You, you said eloquently put forwardhow, you know, music and creativity
can be such an animating force in life.
And so, you know, the last month wehad celebrations, like whether it was
Juneteenth, um, whether it was variouspride celebrations, even as Right.
(40:33):
We had a, a political regime that mm-hmm.
Essentially it, they were restrainingto even mention that those things either
existed or, or didn't want to at all.
Yeah.
And yet you had so many people justcoming out, you know, just trying
to, in almost in defiance, right.
Of trying to, to showcase thatno, we're gonna celebrate anyway.
(40:55):
And so That's right.
I wanna ask you, I mean, is theresomething in your mind, is there
something uniquely powerful or evena threat to the status quo about, you
know, people coming out to, to dance,seeing and love and, and, and just
refusing to be reduced to their pain?
Gabriel Teodros (41:11):
Yes, absolutely.
Yes.
Um.
I think it's so vital.
You know, I, I feel like the, thetheme throughout this conversation
has been, hold on to your humanity,but it, it, it feels like that, you
know, it's, it's, it's another wayof holding onto your humanity and
refusing to obey in advance, right?
(41:32):
Like, that's something organizershave been saying across the country.
And this, you know, current time period ofrising fascism refuse to obey in advance.
So don't let them silence you.
Don't let them reduce you.
Don't let them dehumanize you and everyway we can show up publicly proud.
(41:52):
Our full selves, like is anotheract of defiance, you know, and it's
giving other people the strength andencouragement to do the same, you know?
So, yeah.
Nora Kenworthy (42:00):
I think one of the other things that I'm hearing you
say in this conversation is thatit's really important for us to be
together in our grief, but also in ourefforts to rebuild or create mm-hmm.
New things.
Um, which reminds me quite a bit ofyour last album from the Ashes of our
Homes, which I understand you wrote afterlosing your own home in a house fire.
(42:24):
Mm-hmm.
One of the kind of persistent themesof our conversations on this podcast
is about what it means to rebuildand repair and constantly try to.
Hack together fixes to things whileso many things are breaking around us.
And so I guess how does that themeenter into your work of your music, but
(42:44):
also maybe the, the work that you'retrying to do with this festival around
memory and repair and reconstruction?
Gabriel Teodros (42:51):
Yeah.
Thank you for, for mentioning thatalbum from the Ashes of Our Homes is my
favorite album that I've ever written.
And, and, uh, I really don'tthink enough people like
clicked play on it to be honest.
Okay.
Well we're
Nora Kenworthy (43:04):
telling all of our listeners to click play.
Yes, go.
It's fantastic.
Go, go copy it.
Gabriel Teodros (43:08):
Appreciate that.
I just want people to hear it.
Um, you know, that album, thatalbum is really deep to me
from the ashes of our homes.
Um, not just because I wrote itafter a house fire, but I wrote it.
It's channeling so much like I wroteit after a house fire in the midst of
(43:28):
the global pandemic after, you know.
The George Floyd uprisings acrossthe country while a genocide
was taking place in Tigray, inEthiopia, where my people are from.
And that genocide right there issomething that totally shook me
(43:48):
to my core in such a deep way.
Like it made me question even my idea ofwhat it means to be an Ethiopian person.
You know, everything, everyconcept of home that I had was
rocked in 2020 and 2021, you know?
Um, the displacement that you mentioned,Marcus, like I wasn't living in the
(44:11):
South end anymore for the first time.
Um, Ethiopia, the pandemic,like actual, literal house fire.
And with the pandemic, losing people.
Like I lost some of my best friends,you know, in the, in that year and.
Not just best friends, butlike people in community.
Like there's still, we lost so manypeople in those years that it's like,
(44:36):
I'll think about somebody and thenremember that they died and feel
like I have to grieve all over again.
You know?
So all of that pain was like channel intothat album from the ashes of our homes.
It took three years to make.
Um,
(44:56):
and it's personal, but it's not personal.
That's why I said r and that's why IPluralized homes because everything that
I went through just wasn't me, you know?
Um, and the time that we lost our hometo a house fire, like it was just a
freak accident while we lost our house.
It was like a, a rechargeable batterythat exploded in our laundry room.
(45:18):
Right.
But while that was happening inour, in our laundry room, um.
The whole, like a big part ofWashington was also on fire.
It was in August of 2020, and people werelosing their houses like in a multiple,
like, like so many people were, you know?
Um, and they weren't able to rebuildand they weren't able to bounce back
(45:40):
the same way that we were, you know?
So I didn't wanna just make it about mypain, it's about ours and what do we do?
How do we build from the ashesof all of these collective homes?
I think that thought is something that
it's just, oh God, it's in everything.
It's like not just my music, it, it isin all of the work that I'm doing since,
(46:02):
you know, um, and one thing that I'velearned from losing a house is that
your home isn't just in the building.
It's actually not.
Um, I think one of the most beautifulexperiences that Eja and me had
in this whole like journey of thelast four or five years is, um.
Is the day after we lost our house.
(46:25):
The love that we got from the communityin Seattle, like I don't know if I've ever
felt more loved in my life, is when peoplewere like, people were like grieving our
house fire as if it was their own house.
You know, people were like sendingus songs and someone found the
hotel we were staying in and showedup with teeth for our lungs 'cause
(46:46):
they were worried about our lungs.
Like the, the care and theway that people showed up.
It was like, it was so overwhelmingthat it's something that I think
yeoman me still hold onto today.
Like, we might not have a house, butour home is with these people, you know?
(47:09):
And that's been one of the most hearteningthings in all of it, you know, is that.
Yeah.
Um, another thing that um, I surprisinglyhaven't said yet, because I feel
like I say it all the time, is buildcommunity every single way that you can.
Um, the years of just buildingcommunity like folks really showed up
(47:32):
for us in our time and need, you know?
Um, and that's why I say we gottakeep showing up for each other
because there's so many of us insimilar and much worse situations.
You know, ano another trippything about that album too.
Sorry to, this is so long.
You might have to edit it later.
Nah, it's all good.
But, uh, I wrote about Palestineon that album and that was
(47:58):
released before October 7th.
Nora Kenworthy (48:01):
Wow.
Yeah.
Gabriel Teodros (48:02):
You know what I mean?
Like, and, and I guessthat's not a surprise.
'cause if you look through my worklike Palestine has and, and different
artists and storytellers from Palestinehave inspired me for so long, like.
It's in a lot of my music going allthe way back to like 2007 and probably
before then, but this song on therecord was about, um, it's called a
(48:25):
Open Letter to My Cousins in Israel.
And it's about the situation with,um, Ethiopian IDF soldiers actually.
And the line in the hook, or thisis a chant at the end of the song
rather, where I said, if we wannaget free Palestine must be, um, and
I was speaking directly to what Ifound out later, our literal cousins.
(48:46):
Right.
I do have literal cousins in the IDF, butI was speaking at the time like kind of
just to all Ethiopian and enriching peopleas like metaphorical cousins out there.
Um, yeah.
And it's just wild that I was like, no,this song needs to be on this album.
Yeah.
And then a month later, everythinglike kicked off, you know,
Marcus Harrison Green (49:08):
man, that's, that's the second prophecy.
You, you've sly hadthat you alluded to, to.
Today in this interview, I
Gabriel Teodros (49:14):
don't, I don't think it's a prophecy like mm-hmm.
That's, that's 75 years.
Like people have been, people havebeen vocal about the need to end
the Apartheid state and to Right.
Free Palestine for longer thanI've been alive for a reason.
Right.
People were trying to stop thisfrom happening for decades, so
(49:37):
I don't think it's a prophecy.
It's me echoing things that I've heard.
I think the one thing that wasdifferent was I had been longing to
hear publicly a conversation aboutthe need for Ethiopian orian, African
migrants in general, who live in thestate of Israel, who are horribly
(49:58):
discriminated against in that state.
I never hear conversations about theneed for them to build solidarity
with the Palestinian people.
And it seems like such an obvious link.
I never heard a song about it, sothat's the song that I chose to write,
Marcus Harrison Green (50:13):
you know?
Gabriel Teodros (50:14):
Yeah,
Marcus Harrison Green (50:15):
yeah.
Well that's again, I mean, if you havenot copy the album, I mean, I'm sorry,
it'd be sounding like DJ Khaled hereor whatever, but go, go, go get it.
Damnit.
Um, def that being said, Gabriel,seriously, this has just been an
incredible time with you and it's been a,a privilege thank you to be here with you.
We, uh.
We typically finish every episode, uh,where Nora and I we share our eight
(50:39):
ounces of joy, you know, what is,you know, sort of getting us through
the week, what is, you know, whatare we sort of, um, holding onto and
with all the, the chaos surroundingthe, surrounding the world right now.
And so I wanna ask you thatquestion, like, as you're out here
organizing, as you're making music,as you're, you know, just trying
to be a, a good partner mm-hmm.
(51:00):
To your spouse.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
What is, what is it thatyou're holding onto now?
What are, what are your eight, eightounces of joy that you're, you're trying
your best to squeeze out of the day?
Gabriel Teodros (51:10):
Yeah.
Um, well the sun is shining in Seattleright now, so I have to mention that
first because, you know, we work forthese days, like 10 months of rain
just to have some days like this.
That's real.
So true.
You know, so that's one.
Uh, the family that youmentioned, my spouse, like that
gives me joy every single day.
Um.
(51:32):
Yeah.
Love, you know, um, and actually themusic itself has been giving me joy a lot.
Um, I didn't mention it yet, but 2025has been all about collaboration for me.
I've decided that I'm not doinga solo record this year, but I've
worked on five albums this whole year.
(51:55):
Wow.
And I'm only a primary vocalist on oneof 'em, and it's the first time that,
um, I've been doing that work as aproducer and a couple of 'em are going
to be released in the next few months,and that's given me a lot of joy.
So, yeah.
Oh,
Marcus Harrison Green (52:12):
that's dope.
Gabriel Teodros, September 13th,Palestine will live forever.
Second annual festival over at VolunteerPark in the Capitol Hill neighborhood.
Of Seattle.
Um, no shade at Capitol Hill, althoughthe first one was over in the south end.
But it's, it's all good.
Share.
Share it with the city.
Share it with the city.
I understand,
Gabriel Teodros (52:32):
bro.
It was hard to get, it washard to book this year.
It was hard.
Just people snatched upthem Saturdays early.
Marcus Harrison Green (52:39):
Yeah, that's real.
That's real.
Gabriel Teodros (52:41):
We tried, we really tried to keep it in the south end.
Everything was booked onSaturdays, like through the summer.
Well, hey,
Marcus Harrison Green: well respect to you. (52:48):
undefined
I will definitely be your presence there.
Thank you brother.
And we will, uh, we'll make sure to alsoput a link, uh, for folks who do wanna
donate, um, in support of the festival.
Do thank you family.
Nora Kenworthy (53:00):
And just thank you for reminding us of the
importance of creativity.
And communal joy in these times.
It was a really life-giving conversation.
We appreciate you, you all.
Gabriel Teodros (53:10):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's good to meet you.
Yeah,
Nora Kenworthy (53:12):
you too.
See you at the festival.
Yes.
Gabriel Teodros (53:14):
See you there.
Marcus Harrison Green (53:23):
You know, Nora, I got more insight from that
one conversation than I did fromthree therapy sessions and that pain
killing elixir known as Bacardi Rum.
Which by the way, does not count as selfcare no matter how many candles you light,
Nora Kenworthy (53:36):
I think your therapist would want you to say that.
Right.
It's definitely cheaper and waybetter for your liver and bonus, uh,
does not have any weird aftertasteof regret and emotional avoidance.
But no, seriously,Gabriel is so incredible.
It's a gift to have him with us today.
Marcus Harrison Green: Yeah, no, it truly is. (53:54):
undefined
Nora Kenworthy (53:55):
I think one of the really important things that he
pulls all of us into doing is makingsure that we speak loudly and often
on issues even when they scare us.
And I don't know about you, but Ineeded another reminder of that this
week and I'm really grateful for it.
Marcus Harrison Green (54:12):
I did too.
And just, I'll say just thelevels of grace that Gabriel
approaches people in life with.
Um, you know, I am a personwho was very much at times.
Quick to, quick to anger with, uh, youknow, with certain people who, let's
just say, uh, traffic and ignoranceand, you know, I will say like having
(54:33):
Gabriel as an example of, I've learnedto have a lot more grace in life and
I'm very thankful to him for that.
Nora Kenworthy (54:41):
Yeah.
He exudes it constantly, which I don'tknow how a person can do, but yeah.
Props to him for being our role model.
Marcus Harrison Green (54:50):
Absolutely.
I, I do want to be him when I dofinally choose to grow up, but so like
a few years away, A few years away.
Anyhow.
Um, that being said, Nora,why don't we get into our
eight ounces of joy for today?
Nora Kenworthy (55:03):
I would love that.
I wanna preface this bysaying it's a really weird.
Um, eight ounces of joy.
Um, we lost this week the poet AndreaGibson, um, who I think to so many people
was just such an incredible voice of whatit means to live in a time of sorrow and
(55:25):
fear and just do it anyways, uh, with joy.
And so I know a lot of folksare really grieving right now.
And, and so it feels a little weird tosay like, this is also a source of joy,
but I think Andrea themselves said that.
They wanted people to recognize thatwhen they finally passed, um, that,
(55:45):
you know, they lived with cancerfor a really long time, right?
That they wanted people to see itas a victory rather than a defeat.
Um, and I think the victory is thatall of us are sitting with their words.
Um, and, and their memories this weekand in particular, I came across, um,
something they said, um, this week.
Uh, I think they said it in around 2020.
(56:06):
Um, but they said in the end, I want myheart to be covered in stretch marks.
And I love that reminder to allof us to expand our hearts even
when things are really scary.
Yeah.
Marcus Harrison Green (56:22):
Wow.
Um, that is in incredible, Ihave to say, like I, I feel.
Very much like mine is extremelytrivial in the face of that.
You, you go with, oh,
Nora Kenworthy (56:31):
I'm sorry.
Marcus Harrison Green (56:32):
You go, you go, you go with, with a generational poet.
And I go with like a, uh, like someterrible IP from Warner Brothers.
Uh, but
Nora Kenworthy (56:43):
anyhow, you know, it takes both, it takes
both to have joy these days.
Marcus Harrison Green (56:47):
That is true.
Uh, I will, I'll, I'll keep this brief,but I, um, I saw, I recently saw the,
uh, the new Superman movie directed byJames Gunn and I actually did a review
about it for the, the stranger and.
Um, for those who, who don't know,it was getting attacked prior to its
release, uh, from a lot of conservativegroups, including, uh, Fox News who
(57:12):
were talking about it was too woke.
It was this and that.
And they, the main issue they took withit was the fact that the director James
Gunn said that, you know, Superman's besttraits is in the fact that he can, you
know, bench press skyscrapers or leap tallbuildings or has heat vision or whatever.
It's that he has, you know, thisthing called human kindness that is
(57:32):
very much in short supply these days.
And, um, I always just saylike, I, you know, Superman
has been one of my favorite.
Sort of mythical charactersince I was a young boy.
And my, my dad, he would, uh, work twojobs to afford, uh, sending me to Catholic
school when I was, um, when I was younger.
And he would, you know, his wayof, besides working his ass off
(57:54):
of showing that he loved me was,you know, to sit by the fireplace.
And he would read, you know,Superman comic books to me.
And, and I think, you know, what I, whatI said in my piece is, is true today.
As, as, as, as when I was.
Younger is that, you know,ultimately we're living now.
Right.
Very much so.
I, I think we're acutely aware of thissort of narrative battle that we have,
(58:16):
you know, of, you know, how we shouldcomport ourselves in society when, you
know, we had an, our episode earlierabout toxic, um, empathy supposedly.
Mm-hmm.
And how, you know, that has become,you know, more and more mainstream.
And so to me, to have, you know, eventhough it is a mythical story, right?
But to have an example of somebody whouses their power for not themselves,
(58:42):
not to, to fly above people, but to walkalongside them and to truly just help
them to be not a savior, but a servant.
Um, you know, as the, you know, comicbook nerd know, the very first page
of the first Superman comic booksays he fights for the oppressed.
Right.
And to even have, you know, ina, as, as kind of, you know,
(59:04):
our conversation with Gabriel.
Sort of elucidated, right?
I mean, it's, if you canhave more people, right?
Saying, you know, speaking upand, and speaking for the, the
right thing, that's important.
But I also think the more storieswe can have, you know, regardless of
whether they're true or not, but just,you know, even just these motifs in
life that we can have that speak towhat is right and what is just, and,
(59:26):
and, you know, what is transformative?
Um, I think all the better.
So, um, I'm all in for Superman.
I, Jesus, I'm, I'm plugging Bacardiup here at Bay and I guess Superman.
I, I promise you, I'm a man of the left.
I promise you folks,
Nora Kenworthy (59:41):
we're, we're gonna work on the sponsorships though, so we
get some credit for these, for these.
Shout out.
No, but I think, I think it's true.
We need as many myths and storiesthat will sustain us as possible.
And apparently Republicans are scared of.
Even the most white mainstream characters.
So keep yeah, keep freaking them out.
(01:00:03):
Keep telling stories thatkeep them up at night.
Marcus Harrison Green (01:00:06):
And a and a quick shout out though, 'cause
I, um, and I put this in my piece.
So Superman was actually created,uh, by two, two Jewish men who
were, uh, children of immigrants.
And, you know, he very much underscores,uh, I guess in, in the, the Jewish
faith is called to come alum.
Mm-hmm.
And it's meaning to helprepair the world, right?
(01:00:26):
Yeah.
And so there's a verymuch an analog to, uh.
Gaza in this movie, as shall we say.
And um, I was in the theater with,uh, uh, one of my roommates in the
theater, uh, was a Jewish woman whostarted to cry during, uh, the film.
And then I, after I asked her afterwards,you know, sort of what was going
on and, and she said, you know, shefelt one, that her Jewish identity
(01:00:49):
was actually portrayed truly righton, on screen, even though it was.
This big budget blockbuster in the senseof you have this Jewish coded character
who for the first time is played by aJewish actor in his 87 year history.
Yeah.
Who is really living up to theideals as she saw it, of Judaism.
And she was saying it, it just spoketo her that more, uh, not just Jewish
(01:01:14):
people, but all of us need to adoptthat posture of speaking up, you
know, for, for the folks in Gaza.
Um, you know, as this, uh, thismurderous, uh, genocide continues on, so.
Nora Kenworthy (01:01:27):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Marcus Harrison Green (01:01:30):
All right.
Yeah.
Well, that being said, so yes, youcan, you can all be, we can all
be superheroes just by raising ourvoice to put a fine point on it.
Um, God, I'm sounding like one of those.
The more you grow, the more you know.
Anyway, before I get too cornyhere, uh, let me go ahead
and read us out for the day.
Uh.
Thank you audience again for joiningus for the another episode of In
(01:01:53):
the Meanwhile, as always, a hugeshout out to our brainiac producer,
Jessica, part now, and to the musicalsavant the ham AO for our show music.
You can find and follow us on all of yourfavorite podcast platforms are on YouTube.
Instagram are blue sky.
New episodes drop every Friday, and untilthen, we'll catch you in the meanwhile.
I think other people's silence is what makes it dangerous
(00:03):
for those of us who do speak up.
If more of us spoke up, if thatbecame the norm, if chanting down a
genocide was the norm in this country,it wouldn't be dangerous for anyone.
Nora Kenworthy (00:22):
Welcome back to In the Meanwhile where the vibes
are bad, the news is worse, andyet somehow we're still here.
I'm Nora Kenworthy.
Marcus Harrison Green (00:30):
And I'm Marcus Harrison Green.
You know, Nora, do you ever wake up andfeel like you're living in a mashup of
Black Mirror Children of Man and MethodMan's to Cow 2000 album, but without
the production budget are the healing?
Nora Kenworthy (00:43):
I do, although it's been a while since I listened to Method Man.
Um, it's the summer of JeffBezos getting married on a yacht
the size of Bainbridge Island.
Uh, while the rest of us areout here treating happiness
like it's Sudafed locked up.
Rations suspiciously hardto get without an id.
Marcus Harrison Green (01:00):
Damn.
That is, uh, that's a, that'sa little too real, I gotta say.
But, uh, you know, no.
If we're going down, we are goingdown with a beat, which is why we're
very hyped about today's guest.
The one, the only Gabriel Teodross.
Nora Kenworthy (01:18):
If you've spent even five minutes in Seattle, or on our
radio waves, or in the south end,you know, Gabriel mc, poet educator,
radio host, sci-fi nerd, community gr.
Organizer and yeah, probably atime traveler sent back to warn
us about the perils of late stagecapitalism through spoken word.
Marcus Harrison Green: He's got me believing it. (01:39):
undefined
Let me tell you.
Um, his album from the Ashes of our Homesisn't just music, it's a field manual
for grief, resistance, and rebuilding.
I would say that it's Bell Hooksmeets Baldwin over Boom bap
Nora Kenworthy (01:54):
or like if Bell Hooks in Tupac had a baby and the baby wrapped
about Palestine and patriarchy andpushing through grief without losing joy.
Marcus Harrison Green (02:05):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Nora Kenworthy (02:07):
In this convo, we get into all of that, um, why silence is
complicity, how art can be an act ofsurvival and what it means to build
community that doesn't just mourntogether, but dances together too.
Marcus Harrison Green (02:20):
Look, I will give our listeners a content
warning because I'm gonna confronthim about ghosting my mixtape.
Back in the day, it was Soulja Boymeets Barry Manalow and I think it
could have saved hip hop personally.
Nora Kenworthy (02:32):
I feel like we're gonna need a whole
episode dedicated to that one.
Marcus Harrison Green: I appreciate that, Nora. (02:37):
undefined
I do.
But I will
Nora Kenworthy (02:39):
let you argue that point with him.
Marcus Harrison Green (02:42):
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Nora Kenworthy (02:45):
Anyway, today's conversation goes deep.
We're talking love, work, resistancethrough rhythm and what it means
to build joy even when everythingaround you is falling apart.
Marcus Harrison Green (02:55):
Let's get into,
and it gives me a great pleasureto introduce Gabriel Teodros.
Gabriel Teodros is a musician and writerfrom South Seattle who first made a
mark with a group Abyssinian Creole, andreached an international audience with his
(03:17):
critically acclaimed solo debut love work.
He has been setting stages on fireever since, all across the us, Canada,
Mexico, Cuba, Ethiopia, and South Africa,often in combination with workshops
on creative writing, music history,science fiction, and media literacy.
Gabriel, it is such a pleasureto have you on our podcast today.
(03:39):
Thank you, Marcus.
It's good to be here.
It's good to see you.
I got it is great to see you.
And before we kick everything off, man, Igotta, I gotta just get this out the way.
About eight years ago Isent you my mix tape, man.
It was, it was a cross.
It was a cross between Mc Hammer, Uhhuh,Soulja Boy, Uhhuh and Barry Manalow.
(03:59):
Oh man.
And I've, I've neverheard anything back, bro.
Is it just, did it get lost in the mail?
Was it lost in translation?
What have you?
Gabriel Teodros (04:05):
Can, can, can you send it to me again?
I want to hear it.
Okay.
That makes, sounds amazing.
Marcus Harrison Green (04:09):
I'm
I I got you after that.
I, I got you.
After the, after the episode.
That's that be.
That being said, getting into what we'rediscussing today, um, Gabe man, you
have long held that art is resistance.
Could you just talk a little bit aboutwhat that's meant for you, particularly
(04:30):
in this last year when it feels like griefis just bottomless and joy itself, just
keeping on the joy is, is a political act.
Gabriel Teodros (04:39):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, you know, for me, um, just growingup on hip hop music, so my family, uh,
from Ethiopia grew up in the South end.
Um, but I also was.
Born and raised in a time whenthere wasn't much of an Ethiopian
community in South Seattle.
They called me one of the first kids, asin one of the first kids born in Ethiopia.
(05:03):
My mom came here in the seventies.
There was 30 to 40 Ethiopian andenriching people in that time.
And I say that to say that hip hop helpedme understand the world that I was living
in and the one that I was growing up in.
It gave me language to describe, um, theoppression that we all were like coming
(05:23):
up against and, and what I would have toface going up through the school system.
And in the eighties, seeing the crackera, seeing the school to prison pipeline,
experiencing it for the first time in atime when my parents, well, when my mother
and, and, and, and my extended familydidn't even really understand it because
it's not the context that they grew up in.
(05:44):
They moved here, you know?
Um.
So hip hop not only explained what Iwas going through, but it also gave
me the tools to resist, you know?
And it also let me know that I wasn'talone and that I wasn't crazy for
thinking the things that I, that I wasthinking for experiencing the things
that I was experiencing, you know?
(06:04):
Um,
and the two have always beentied together for me, ever since.
Music and resistance, you know,um, not just resistance, but
to boldly claim that our life matters,you know, in a, in a, in a country
(06:25):
and a society that constantly tries toreinforce this idea that you don't matter.
You know what I mean?
And, and I think once I finallypicked up my pen and pad and
started writing my own story, um,
yeah, that was resistance too.
You know?
I was, um.
(06:46):
I was so young when I started.
I was 16 years old.
Um, I've told this story a lot,but, um, Tupac was one of my biggest
inspirations when I started writing.
Um, when he died, I had thisdream, um, I'll, I'll try
to tell a truncated version.
Um, I had a dream that Tupac was onthis underground platform, and this
(07:09):
underground platform was like a subwayor like a light rail station, but we
didn't have a light rail station yet onBeacon Hill, you know, and the station
had these windows that bled a pure light.
And PAC was on this platformwaiting to get on this train
to go to the other side of wow.
When you go to the otherside, there's no coming back.
But I knew how he could get offthe platform and come back up
(07:30):
the stairs, back to back to life.
And in my dream, I shookhis hand, you know?
And I told him like, you're theone that's supposed to lead us.
You're the one that'ssupposed to like lead.
Lead us to our liberation.
You, you've got the ears of everybody.
And he laughed and he shook hishead and he said, it's on you now.
And I woke up and he died.
And this person that my mom was datingcomes into my bedroom, says, PAC has died.
(07:54):
I just hear this, hisvoice in my head ringing.
It's on you now.
It's on you now.
And for me, that was, it was set like,this is what my life is gonna be.
Not just music, but everything thatI thought PAC was supposed to do.
It's on our generation now to takethat forward into the future, you know?
(08:14):
Um.
And if you look at who Pac was in hismusic, very, a very complicated person.
Very who, who, who contradictedhimself from song to song to song.
But he also was lifting upnames of black freedom fighters.
He was lifting up the name of MatulaShakur, who was his stepfather of
Asada, of Ger Moji, Jaga of all theseincredible black political prisoners
(08:37):
from the Panthers era because hehimself was a Panther cub, you know?
Right.
Trying to a Finn Shakur, rest in peace.
So it's like, that's thehip hop that I grew up on.
You know, that's, that's, that's themusic that inspired me to even make music.
So for me it's just, there's noseparating music and resistance.
Marcus Harrison Green (09:00):
Damn.
Might be, I mean, yeah, let's inan interview right now, because
that's the, that's how we, we Good.
We got everything.
Nora Kenworthy (09:07):
Talk about passing baton, man.
That is not a dream you can ignore.
No.
Uh,
um, I've been really inspired by a lotof your music, but I particular the
ways that you yourself describe andname your music as a form of love work.
Mm-hmm.
Um, that's the name of one of your albums.
(09:28):
What does the concept oflove work mean to you today?
Um, mm-hmm.
And I guess how is art aform of love work for you?
Gabriel Teodros (09:37):
Love work.
Yeah.
So, um, the concept of love work,uh, comes directly from bell hooks.
May she rest in peace?
Um, I'm still not over herpassing away, by the way.
Um, uh.
I read all about love, I think like alot of men do right after a breakup.
(10:00):
Yeah.
That's, that's, youain't lying on that one.
And um, and it became like, I feellike Bell Hooks is writing became
like water in a desert, you know?
Mm-hmm.
When I was like dying of thirst.
Um, and Bell hooks throughout thatseries, 'cause there's three books, um,
all about love, salvation, and communion.
(10:21):
Um, you know, she, she makes the pointthat most everything that we've been
taught about love isn't love, you know?
And to really know love, we have to undoevery system of domination that stops
people from really be being loving.
So, to know love, especially as menin the society, people who've been
socialized as men, we have to undosystems that we've internalized
(10:44):
of patriarchy, of male domination.
Uh, uh.
Homophobia, like all, all, all the systemsof domination that stop people from really
being their own, their true full selves.
So when I was working on theLove Work album, um, I was
thinking about Bell Hooks a lot.
Um, I was thinking aboutKhalil, LeBron and the prophet.
(11:07):
He said, love is work made visible.
And I never give thisbrother enough credit.
But I also was thinking of a Koreanmc from Chicago by the name of
Dennis Kim, or Dennis and Kane.
Um, he was from a crew called, I was bornwith two tongues, which I obviously felt.
Um, and another crew called typical Catsand he had this bar where he said, uh,
(11:28):
the income's quick and ego says quit.
I say, work is love.
Let my body be a brick.
You know, and that linejust hit me so, so tough.
Mm-hmm.
And I was reading the hooks at thesame time, thinking about Khal LeBron.
So I was like, yeah, love work,not love as work, but to know love.
We have to work and there's noseparating these two concepts.
(11:51):
Hmm.
You know, so that's why love workwas put together as one word.
Um, everything that inspired that album, Ifeel like has kind of been a through line
through the rest of my life, you know?
Um, particularly
(12:11):
like undoing every idea that we haveof black masculinity that stops people
from really being loving, that stops usfrom being our true selves, you know?
Um, yeah.
It's just in everything I do, you know,for me, love work is about claiming your
humanity again and again, and choosing tofight for it because the minute you come
(12:35):
become complacent, it's like you can goback to that state of unloving, I think
of it sometimes, uh, especially like.
Being taught patriarchy,you know, at a young age.
The first people we harm inpatriarchy is men are ourselves.
You know?
Um, I can't remember who said it.
(12:56):
I am quoting someone though.
There is, um, there's a form ofself-mutilation that occurs, right?
Um, men cut off their own sense ofsensuality to be okay with domination.
And I often think of it like somebodywho's overcoming an addiction.
You know, like people whoare in AA and NA programs.
(13:17):
Like, you've gotta makethat step every single day.
Like you to, you've gottachoose to go to that meeting.
You've gotta choose to, to not usetoday, you know, and you're always one
step away from, from being an addict.
Again.
I really think thatpatriarchy is the same way.
We have to choose to fight toundo these systems of domination
(13:39):
every single day, you know?
Um.
For the sake of our own humanity, andso we don't hurt other people, you know?
So that's what I think aboutwhen I think of love work.
And that's a long answer, but I thinkthe second part of your question
was how does it relate today?
I mean, that's just in everything.
Like if you look at, if you lookat this country, if you look at the
(14:00):
manosphere that has created politiciansand, and, and influential people,
like it's, it's all right there.
You know what I mean?
Like even, even in hip hop, like I'vebeen thinking about this a lot in hip hop.
Um, I see a lot of people who would bepeers turn right wing and turn fascist.
And I've seen more of them in thelast few years than any other time.
(14:24):
And for me, the warning signs have been.
Especially with artists who have beencritical of like racism or, you know,
critical of white supremacy, but theydon't go far enough to critique capitalism
or to, or to critique patriarchy andthose that become red flags for me,
when I see people don't critique thosetwo things within themselves, it's
(14:46):
like they can slide into rightwingfascism so quick because that side
is ready to embrace you, you know?
So, yeah.
Marcus Harrison Green (14:54):
Lord Jamar's broken my heart in the recent years.
Oh my gosh.
Oh my God.
But anyhow, yeah, Lord.
Anyhow, that's another, another,another conversation for another day.
Um, that being said, uh, youknow, our, our listeners have to.
Recognize right now what, what I'verecognized back when I was first starting
at out in journalism, and I remember Iused to interview you and we would joke,
(15:18):
well, well, maybe we, maybe it wasn'tmore of a joke on my end than yours, but
I I, I used to joke that I could, uh,sit with you for an hour and a half and
I could have quotes from you about that.
I could spurse out on variousstories for the next six months.
Like I could, like, whether it wasreparations or, uh, you know, Metro
Transit, an earthquake preparedness.
(15:39):
I just, let me just look upand, okay, I got something from
Gary, but I wanna ask you's.
That's
Gabriel Teodros (15:45):
called, that's called me having a DH adhd.
Not, well, it, it wasbeneficial to, to my,
Nora Kenworthy (15:50):
I want You're kind of a DH adhd.
Marcus Harrison Green (15:53):
Yes, yes.
But, but that being said, I mean, as anartist, you are so, you are a true artist.
Like, just in terms of you beingmultifaceted and not just siloed
into one to, excuse me, and notjust being siloed into one genre.
You know, whether it's speculativefiction, again, whether it's music,
right, whether it's, uh, you know,organizing, whether it's teaching.
(16:14):
And so for you, how do you know whatis the right genre, if you will, to
activate, you know, when it comes totrying to get your message across or
trying to, you know, be most effective?
You know, when it comes to thingslike resistance or organizing.
Gabriel Teodros (16:30):
Yeah, that's a Thank you for that.
Um, seriously, like, thank you for thatquestion because sometimes I feel like
it's hard for people to understand thedifferent, like mediums that I work in,
and it's hard for sometimes, I think it'shard for people to imagine any artist
(16:51):
working in a medium that's differentthan the first one they met them in.
So, for example, like I have peoplethat used to listen to my radio show on
KXP that never knew I did music at all.
Like that was a shock to themthat I created music at all, you
know, which is like the main thingthat I've done my whole life.
Um, it's just interesting.
(17:13):
Um, for me, I try not to overthink it.
Um, I'm definitely following intuition.
Um, highly garima, one ofmy biggest inspirations.
He said, tell the story that youhunger to hear in the language
that feels the most natural to you.
He was talking about filmmaking, butI think that's just a universal truth
(17:34):
for storytelling across any medium.
And that's my guiding light.
Do I hunger to hear this story?
Am I the person to tell it?
Am I able to tell it in this form?
And that's it, you know?
Um, there also is a little partof me that's curious, that likes
to do things that are hard.
For some reason, I like a challenge and.
(17:58):
Sometimes.
Sometimes that's what inspires me too.
Like, oh, I don't know how to make abeat, but I learned how, and once I
learned how, oh, I wanted to producean album, and okay, I'm gonna do
that, you know, like it's, there isan excitement in learning a new medium
too, that can go really far, you know?
Nora Kenworthy (18:17):
Yeah,
Gabriel Teodros (18:18):
absolutely.
Nora Kenworthy (18:20):
Yeah.
I've been thinking a lotas you're talking about.
What brings us joy inthese really tough times.
And I think part of that isthe joy of, of the renewal, of
learning a new thing, right?
Mm-hmm.
Of acquiring a new craftand struggling with it.
Um, and I am always inspired by peoplelike you who continue to do that struggle.
(18:41):
Um, it's
Gabriel Teodros (18:42):
fun
Nora Kenworthy (18:44):
and frustrating sometimes.
Sometimes.
Yeah.
Um, one of the reasons we wantedto chat with you is because of your
organizing work around Palestine.
Mm-hmm.
Um, you've been such an outspoken voiceon this, and you've also said that it's
been painful to watch other artists staysilent on issues with Palestine, either
(19:06):
out of fear or, um, I don't, I don't know.
I don't know why people are silent.
Yeah.
Um, but we've, we'refacing a lot of blow back.
Um, and so.
What have you learned about what ittakes for you to speak up and keep
speaking up on issues like this onewhen, you know, it's important to say
that the risk is real, um, and the, theretribution is often real for artists.
Gabriel Teodros (19:31):
Yeah.
Um, I mean, the first thing I wanna sayis that the risk and the retribution would
not be as bad as if more people spoke up.
Nora Kenworthy (19:42):
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
Gabriel Teodros (19:43):
Like, I think other people's silence is what makes it
dangerous for those of us who do speak up.
If more of us spoke up, if thatbecame the norm, if chanting down a
genocide was the norm in this country,it wouldn't be dangerous for anyone.
And it's such common sense, you know?
Um, so there's that.
(20:05):
Um, I don't how, I don't knowhow not to speak about it.
I really don't, you know?
Um.
I worry about people's humanity.
Who, and I wonder do they see thesame images that I see when I log into
(20:25):
Instagram, when I go on social media?
Like, are they seeing images of agenocide happening in real time?
Because I do mm-hmm.
When I, when I log into social medianow, and that's, that's not normal.
Nobody should ever be okay with that.
Nobody should ever benumb to that, you know?
Um, and it's just that simple.
(20:48):
Like I talked earlier about love work,about holding onto your humanity.
To me, speaking out against injusticeis part of holding onto your humanity.
Nora Kenworthy (21:00):
Mm-hmm.
Gabriel Teodros (21:02):
As simple as that, you know, like the more you become numb to it
and, and, and scared to speak out, like I.
I worry about your mental health.
I worry about your emotional health.
Like, I don't know how peoplecan just consume death.
Nora Kenworthy (21:18):
Yeah.
Gabriel Teodros (21:19):
And be quiet like that.
That actually boggles my mind, you know?
Marcus Harrison Green (21:23):
Yeah.
I, I am just curious because we,you know, we live in this time where
there is just so much, I'll saylike rampant dehumanization, right?
Yes.
I mean, we see it withour immigrant communities.
Uh, we see it with how I should say ourimmigrant communities are being treated.
Yeah.
And as well as other communitieshere in, in, in our country.
How can we resuscitate, ifyou will, focus this humanity?
(21:46):
Like, what, what is that going totake and what does that look like?
Gabriel Teodros (21:49):
Yeah.
Um, I think storytellingis a big part of it.
That's the big question that you asked.
I don't think I'm like, I can answerthe whole thing, you know, but I think
that storytelling is a big part of it.
Um,
and what I mean by that is.
Like speaking about Palestine forexample, it's so rare that Palestinian
(22:14):
people are interviewed on mainstreammedia in the news and television.
You know, like Mo was like thefirst show centered on Palestinian
American life and how many decadesand year, you know, like right.
That, that humanizing of peopleI think is like really important.
(22:35):
So you don't just know whothese people are in their death.
Mm. You don't.
So, you know, the complexity,the beau, the beautifulness,
the joy, everything that makesthese people, you know, amazing.
Um, I think it's important foreverybody to know each other's
humanity, to wanna fight for it.
(22:58):
You know?
I felt the same way about black peopleforever, you know, and I still do that.
Um.
You know, when it's police killing blackfolks and, and white people in the middle
of the country, just being okay with that.
I had to think about that for a long time.
Like, why, how couldanyone be okay with this?
(23:20):
Like, I do see the parallels there,you know, and I think part of it is for
so long, black humanity never reallygot to shine in its full complexity
in mainstream media, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It's like, even though there's plentymore black folks in the media, more
(23:41):
than Palestinian folks, it's still likea, a lot of times like a cartoonish
caricature, you know, especially inmainstream rap, to be quite frank.
You know, it's only until recentyears that, that a lot more complex
hip hop artists started breakingthrough the mainstream, you know?
But there was a, a dumbing downof our entire humanity and.
(24:04):
What a lot of, like the middle ofAmerica was consuming, you know?
And when you come and when youlook at what, how they've treated
Palestinian people in the media,it's like, I mean, the president uses
Palestinian as a slur, first of all.
Right?
But he's only able to do that becauseit's been decades and decades of
a project where the only time aPalestinian is mentioned in the
(24:26):
mainstream media is as a terrorist.
Right.
Their entire, their entireeverything has just been reduced
to this one thing that's like,
it's, it's, it's justdehumanizing, you know?
Yeah,
Nora Kenworthy (24:40):
yeah,
Gabriel Teodros (24:41):
yeah.
Nora Kenworthy (24:43):
Our last conversation was with, um,
Palestinian American writer, Ana.
Amazing.
Who was, I think part of what he wassaying is that the, the oppression
of Palestinians is a template for theoppression of all other people, right?
Mm-hmm.
Whether it's the ways that police.
Travel to Israel to learnhow to oppress people.
(25:05):
Mm-hmm.
Or the ways that, you know, thesame models of apartheid are used
in so many different communities.
And I think you're also telling ussomething, but also about the value
of, of unique storytelling to undosome of those templates or to make
it harder, um, to put them in place.
Gabriel Teodros (25:25):
I think, I think that a lot of oppression is held up by stories
too, you know, and stories of a missionand which stories are not being told.
You know, they work,
Nora Kenworthy (25:34):
yeah.
Gabriel Teodros (25:34):
They work together, they work hand in hand.
You can't, you can't bomb a people andhave a population be okay with it if you
didn't first tell a story about why it'sokay to bomb those people, you know?
Marcus Harrison Green (25:47):
Right.
It's what's Plato, Ibelieve who said, right.
It's storytellers whoultimately rule the world.
Right.
It is.
Gabriel Teodros (25:53):
Yep.
Marcus Harrison Green (25:54):
Yeah.
Well.
Gabriel, I want to ask you,'cause you, you know, you were
proud South Seattle Light.
Yes, yes.
As much as I am.
Yes.
Yes.
And so it's for listeners who maynot be familiar with that area of, of
Seattle, I mean, it's undergone it, Iwould say in the last 20 years, hell,
in the last two years, it's undergone.
(26:14):
Mm-hmm.
A lot of a gentrification anddisplacement and, and so on and so forth.
Um, obviously both of ushave been privy to that.
And so I want to ask you, how has yourown experience with displacement mm-hmm.
You know, from, uh, a diaspora, if youwill, how has that sort of impacted,
you know, your own outlook and howhas that informed you on the way
(26:39):
you show up for, you know, Palestineand, and other communities that are
resisting your erasure right now?
Gabriel Teodros (26:45):
Yeah.
Thank you for that.
It, I think because of that experienceof my family first experiencing
displacement when they left Ethiopia.
Then secondly, experiencingdisplacement through gentrification.
Um, it makes all of it so personal.
(27:06):
It doesn't feel like this is over there.
You know, it feels like thisis, this is history repeating.
This is a part of the same monsters thathad our people, you know, displaced.
Um, it just makes it seem all connected.
It makes me realize that it'sall connected, I should say.
(27:28):
Um, and also I think growing up inthe South End specifically helps me
see how we're all connected becausethe south end that we grew up in
was a place that was always black,native, Mexican, Chinese, Filipino,
(27:48):
Vietnamese, Cambodian, Samoan, you know?
Yeah.
There's, I had Columbian neighbors, uh.
All next door to each other.
Everybody's grandma spoke a differentlanguage, but we somehow found a
language how we could communicate witheach other as the kids of all these
different communities on the basketballcourts through hip hop at school.
(28:11):
And it's a really unique experiencewhere I think building solidarity
wasn't something that we learnedas activists when we got older.
I think building solidarity wassomething that we learned in the south
end on the playground as children.
Right, right.
Marcus Harrison Green (28:28):
I'm, there's a, there's a story.
I mean, we talk about stories.
There's always a story I tell folkswho aren't familiar with, I guess
what South Seattle, I don't wannasay used to be, but I mean the spirit
of Souths Seattle, I remember right.
Being 10 years old and, um.
I was looking out the windowat, at, uh, this gas station
that my parents were parked at.
And, uh, there's a Jewish man,he had his Yama kan. Mm-hmm.
(28:49):
And, you know, he was trying topull, you know, push his car up.
It had stopped on him.
I stalled on him.
And then you see, you know, this, uh,Muslim man come over to, to, to help him.
You see this, this one brotherwho, you know, no neck, you
know, just with the tank top.
I don't, I don't want to you, Idon't wanna assume where he was
from or what he was doing, butanyway, you see him, you see, uh,
(29:10):
this Filipino man come over, right?
Mm-hmm.
And you see all these various peoplecoming up, you know, pushing this
car like struggling together Right.
To get to Yeah.
To this destination.
And that's, that's what SouthSeattle was always to me, right.
And, and so when mm-hmm.
I travel, you know, when growingup, traveling, you know, other to
other places in the United States,you're like, oh, this is, this, this
(29:31):
isn't quite what America really is.
Right.
I know.
And it's, and you realize how specialof a place, you know, you were,
were privy to, to, to grow up in.
And it's.
Truly was a privilege.
So,
Gabriel Teodros (29:41):
yeah, I know, I know.
I'm sitting here like twothoughts, like one man.
There's so many people I didn't shout out.
Like Somali, Ethiopia, RIA,Jewish, like yeah, all of it.
Like, um, the, so the other thoughtis, um, for me, like I experienced that
it's not the way we grew up in south,the south end isn't nor the norm when
(30:03):
I'm traveling with a bunch of peoplethat I grew up with in a place like
New York City and everyone looks at uslike, how do y'all even know each other?
Why are y'all friends?
Like, this doesn't, it's justso normal to us, you know?
And then another, another experienceis, um, I have a good friend who's a hip
hop artist from, uh, Pontiac, Michigan,who spent a lot of time in Seattle.
(30:26):
And, um.
I remember one holiday, we went overto my neighbor, my neighbor D's house,
his family's Filipino, and we just,you know, we just had a family meal
over there, and he was like, thisis the first time I've eaten in a
Filipino person's house, you know?
Wow.
And I'm like, what?
How?
Like, you know, and he's like, this,this type of like, inner cultural,
(30:49):
like, just building, just doesn'thappen where he grew up, you know?
So.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's a trip.
It's a trip that it's not normal.
Right, right.
Nora Kenworthy (30:59):
For sure.
I think you bring a lot of that spiritto the festival that you've been mm-hmm.
Organizing.
Um, the Palestine Will Live ForeverFestival, which is now in its second year.
Yeah.
Um, and coming back to Seattle on, Ithink September 13th, is that correct?
That's right.
Gabriel Teodros (31:17):
Volunteer park.
Yeah.
Nora Kenworthy (31:18):
Yes.
Um.
You've said that this festivalis not just a party mm-hmm.
But is part of the resistance.
And so I guess I'm wondering whatyou're trying to hold space for as
you create this festival and whatyou're hoping it will bring, not
just to our, our local communities,but also to a broader conversation
among communities about Palestine.
Gabriel Teodros (31:41):
Yeah.
Um, first I wanna say I'm just one personof many that's working on this festival.
Um, the theme this year isall of us, or none of us.
And, um, and what we mean by that is, um,
is that, you know, we started thisfestival centered on Palestine, and
we're still gonna center on Palestine.
(32:02):
But with all of the different communitiesbeing targeted, especially under this
administration, it's more clear nowthan it's ever been that we don't get
free unless we all get free, you know?
Um, right.
Whether it's black people underattack, whether it's immigrants,
whether it's trans communities.
(32:24):
Um, this year we're making even more ofan intentional statement and representing
all these different communities on stage.
And we really want to model,I think, in all of my shows
since even before the festival.
Remember my friend Robbie, RobertoEscalon, said this to me, actually,
(32:45):
he said it as a compliment, but I tookit as an assignment and I don't even
know if he knows how much his wordsimpacted me, but he said that what
you do on stage is like you bring alittle bit of the world that you wanna
see in the future to life on stage.
(33:06):
He, he said that I was doing that,but I took it as an assignment of
like, no, I really need to do that.
You know?
And with the festival, that'swhat we're trying to model.
Like what freedom looks like, whatliberation looks like, what it sounds
and feels like when we're all togethertelling our stories and our full truth
(33:26):
and our full complexity and fightingfor each other and, and doing our
music with each other, you know, um,on one stage, no division, you know?
Um, I think that's, that's the missionwith the festival this, this year.
Um, if people leave from the festival,seeing that they have new allies, new
(33:52):
co-conspirators, new people to fightfor new people, new whole communities
to ride for, that's, that's the goal.
You know, I think that music musicians,we have a really particularly powerful
gift of bringing people together thatmight not see themselves in each other.
And, um.
That's what we wanna do with thisfestival is, is get people to see how
(34:16):
much they really have in common and,and how important it's for us to stand
together in this time especially.
Marcus Harrison Green (34:24):
Yeah,
Gabriel Teodros (34:24):
absolutely.
Marcus Harrison Green (34:25):
Um, you know, I remember writing about the festival
for, uh, the Stranger, uh, last year.
Thank you for that.
No, no.
It was a pleasure.
It was a pleasure.
But, um, one of the things that cameup even during that time was just
the ability to, you know, balance,you know, grief with Jubilee.
Right.
Um, in essence that it's, you know,this is what sort of life is, right?
(34:49):
It is, uh, it, it's a harmonyof, of contradiction and
complexity and so on and so forth.
And so I wanna ask you now, um.
How do you personally balance, youknow, grief with creative action?
And has art offered you a place ofreckoning or, or refuge or something
(35:11):
else entirely At this point,
Gabriel Teodros (35:14):
I just gotta say, you guys ask really beautiful
questions on this podcast.
That is a beautiful question.
Marcus Harrison Green (35:21):
I'm just trying to live up to Nora, man.
That's all you
Gabriel Teodros (35:23):
know.
Marcus Harrison Green (35:23):
But
Gabriel Teodros (35:23):
anyway, no,
Nora Kenworthy (35:24):
feel the same.
Ditto.
Both,
Gabriel Teodros (35:26):
both of y'all, both of y'all.
These are both beautiful questions.
Um, you know,
yeah, I don't know how else tochannel grief other than putting
it into creative action, you know?
Um, I think with grief, what little Iknow about it, um, is that it's something
(35:50):
that lives in your body until you find.
A way to let it go, you know?
And I think there's a lotof ways to let that go.
I think that grief comes inwaves, it hits unexpectedly.
Um,
but if you don't do something withit, it, you know, it can feel like
(36:10):
a rock in your chest, you know?
So sometimes the bestthing you can do is cry.
Um, I think it's important whenyou're grieving to move your body,
to get that, to move that energyoutta your, outta your system.
Um, but for me, I found that the bestway for me to move through grief to, to,
(36:34):
to exhale, I guess, is to, is to makeart, you know, is to write about it.
Um, a lot of times it's like I feeltrapped in a prison if I'm not able to
describe the thing that I'm inside of.
The minute I can like, describereally what I'm feeling and, and,
(36:57):
and what it is I'm inside of,I'm able to get outside of it.
You know, I have to write about it first.
I feel like I'm quoting JamesBaldwin verbatim, by the way.
He said this in the interview.
Hey, I, if you're gonnasteal still from the
Marcus Harrison Green (37:11):
best, right?
Gabriel Teodros (37:11):
It's
Marcus Harrison Green (37:11):
James.
I
Gabriel Teodros (37:12):
try to credit people when I can't eat.
Know.
Nora Kenworthy (37:18):
So I think one of the other purposes of the festival, as
I've heard you and other organizersspeak about it, is to move beyond just
perceptions of Palestinian suffering.
Yeah.
Um, and so, particularly given thatthe focus of the festival this year is
widening to include God, all these othercommunities that we are in grief with.
(37:42):
Yeah.
Right Now, what, what else doyou want to be able to convey
about the moment that we're in.
Through the music and the art andthe conversation that happens there,
Gabriel Teodros (37:55):
I wanna convey that we can and we will survive as communities.
You know, it might not be every personunfortunately, you know, but we can, and
we will survive, you know, and we can,and we will survive because of each other.
(38:15):
The more we hold onto each other, themore we support each other, the more
we look out for, for our neighbors, youknow, and our, and we can get through.
Um, I want people to gohome with that feeling.
Um, I want people to feel encouraged,to speak up, to speak out.
I want people to, to feel seen, tofeel validated in their experiences.
(38:40):
I want them to feel energy to fight.
To keep it going.
I think that's like one of thebiggest reasons we're doing it, you
know, is to give people that energyto just keep pushing when things
seem so dire and so insurmountable.
Um,
(39:02):
if it wasn't for music, I don't know.
I don't know how, how I'd beable to push forward, you know?
So I wanna share that with other people.
And, and I think, I guess, sorry,one thing I didn't say is, um,
there's music festivals that happenall, all the time, every day.
(39:23):
I think what makes this festival differentis the actual artists that we're booking.
Like we are focused on both Palestinianartists and artists who have been
unafraid to use their platform tospeak up against this genocide and
against all the different genocides.
And, you know.
(39:44):
Just shit that we're facing.
Excuse my language, you know?
That's okay.
Um, these are artists who a lotof times in this country get
censored for what they're saying.
Like, we're, we're centeringthem on purpose, you know?
Um, and I think you'resaying we don't believe
Marcus Harrison Green (40:01):
in, in freedom of speech in, in this country.
Gabriel Teodros (40:03):
Oh.
Do you think we do?
Marcus Harrison Green (40:11):
So, I mean, so I do want to ask you, I mean mm-hmm.
You, you said eloquently put forwardhow, you know, music and creativity
can be such an animating force in life.
And so, you know, the last month wehad celebrations, like whether it was
Juneteenth, um, whether it was variouspride celebrations, even as Right.
(40:33):
We had a, a political regime that mm-hmm.
Essentially it, they were restrainingto even mention that those things either
existed or, or didn't want to at all.
Yeah.
And yet you had so many people justcoming out, you know, just trying
to, in almost in defiance, right.
Of trying to, to showcase thatno, we're gonna celebrate anyway.
(40:55):
And so That's right.
I wanna ask you, I mean, is theresomething in your mind, is there
something uniquely powerful or evena threat to the status quo about, you
know, people coming out to, to dance,seeing and love and, and, and just
refusing to be reduced to their pain?
Gabriel Teodros (41:11):
Yes, absolutely.
Yes.
Um.
I think it's so vital.
You know, I, I feel like the, thetheme throughout this conversation
has been, hold on to your humanity,but it, it, it feels like that, you
know, it's, it's, it's another wayof holding onto your humanity and
refusing to obey in advance, right?
(41:32):
Like, that's something organizershave been saying across the country.
And this, you know, current time period ofrising fascism refuse to obey in advance.
So don't let them silence you.
Don't let them reduce you.
Don't let them dehumanize you and everyway we can show up publicly proud.
(41:52):
Our full selves, like is anotheract of defiance, you know, and it's
giving other people the strength andencouragement to do the same, you know?
So, yeah.
Nora Kenworthy (42:00):
I think one of the other things that I'm hearing you
say in this conversation is thatit's really important for us to be
together in our grief, but also in ourefforts to rebuild or create mm-hmm.
New things.
Um, which reminds me quite a bit ofyour last album from the Ashes of our
Homes, which I understand you wrote afterlosing your own home in a house fire.
(42:24):
Mm-hmm.
One of the kind of persistent themesof our conversations on this podcast
is about what it means to rebuildand repair and constantly try to.
Hack together fixes to things whileso many things are breaking around us.
And so I guess how does that themeenter into your work of your music, but
(42:44):
also maybe the, the work that you'retrying to do with this festival around
memory and repair and reconstruction?
Gabriel Teodros (42:51):
Yeah.
Thank you for, for mentioning thatalbum from the Ashes of Our Homes is my
favorite album that I've ever written.
And, and, uh, I really don'tthink enough people like
clicked play on it to be honest.
Okay.
Well we're
Nora Kenworthy (43:04):
telling all of our listeners to click play.
Yes, go.
It's fantastic.
Go, go copy it.
Gabriel Teodros (43:08):
Appreciate that.
I just want people to hear it.
Um, you know, that album, thatalbum is really deep to me
from the ashes of our homes.
Um, not just because I wrote itafter a house fire, but I wrote it.
It's channeling so much like I wroteit after a house fire in the midst of
(43:28):
the global pandemic after, you know.
The George Floyd uprisings acrossthe country while a genocide
was taking place in Tigray, inEthiopia, where my people are from.
And that genocide right there issomething that totally shook me
(43:48):
to my core in such a deep way.
Like it made me question even my idea ofwhat it means to be an Ethiopian person.
You know, everything, everyconcept of home that I had was
rocked in 2020 and 2021, you know?
Um, the displacement that you mentioned,Marcus, like I wasn't living in the
(44:11):
South end anymore for the first time.
Um, Ethiopia, the pandemic,like actual, literal house fire.
And with the pandemic, losing people.
Like I lost some of my best friends,you know, in the, in that year and.
Not just best friends, butlike people in community.
Like there's still, we lost so manypeople in those years that it's like,
(44:36):
I'll think about somebody and thenremember that they died and feel
like I have to grieve all over again.
You know?
So all of that pain was like channel intothat album from the ashes of our homes.
It took three years to make.
Um,
(44:56):
and it's personal, but it's not personal.
That's why I said r and that's why IPluralized homes because everything that
I went through just wasn't me, you know?
Um, and the time that we lost our hometo a house fire, like it was just a
freak accident while we lost our house.
It was like a, a rechargeable batterythat exploded in our laundry room.
(45:18):
Right.
But while that was happening inour, in our laundry room, um.
The whole, like a big part ofWashington was also on fire.
It was in August of 2020, and people werelosing their houses like in a multiple,
like, like so many people were, you know?
Um, and they weren't able to rebuildand they weren't able to bounce back
(45:40):
the same way that we were, you know?
So I didn't wanna just make it about mypain, it's about ours and what do we do?
How do we build from the ashesof all of these collective homes?
I think that thought is something that
it's just, oh God, it's in everything.
It's like not just my music, it, it isin all of the work that I'm doing since,
(46:02):
you know, um, and one thing that I'velearned from losing a house is that
your home isn't just in the building.
It's actually not.
Um, I think one of the most beautifulexperiences that Eja and me had
in this whole like journey of thelast four or five years is, um.
Is the day after we lost our house.
(46:25):
The love that we got from the communityin Seattle, like I don't know if I've ever
felt more loved in my life, is when peoplewere like, people were like grieving our
house fire as if it was their own house.
You know, people were like sendingus songs and someone found the
hotel we were staying in and showedup with teeth for our lungs 'cause
(46:46):
they were worried about our lungs.
Like the, the care and theway that people showed up.
It was like, it was so overwhelmingthat it's something that I think
yeoman me still hold onto today.
Like, we might not have a house, butour home is with these people, you know?
(47:09):
And that's been one of the most hearteningthings in all of it, you know, is that.
Yeah.
Um, another thing that um, I surprisinglyhaven't said yet, because I feel
like I say it all the time, is buildcommunity every single way that you can.
Um, the years of just buildingcommunity like folks really showed up
(47:32):
for us in our time and need, you know?
Um, and that's why I say we gottakeep showing up for each other
because there's so many of us insimilar and much worse situations.
You know, ano another trippything about that album too.
Sorry to, this is so long.
You might have to edit it later.
Nah, it's all good.
But, uh, I wrote about Palestineon that album and that was
(47:58):
released before October 7th.
Nora Kenworthy (48:01):
Wow.
Yeah.
Gabriel Teodros (48:02):
You know what I mean?
Like, and, and I guessthat's not a surprise.
'cause if you look through my worklike Palestine has and, and different
artists and storytellers from Palestinehave inspired me for so long, like.
It's in a lot of my music going allthe way back to like 2007 and probably
before then, but this song on therecord was about, um, it's called a
(48:25):
Open Letter to My Cousins in Israel.
And it's about the situation with,um, Ethiopian IDF soldiers actually.
And the line in the hook, or thisis a chant at the end of the song
rather, where I said, if we wannaget free Palestine must be, um, and
I was speaking directly to what Ifound out later, our literal cousins.
(48:46):
Right.
I do have literal cousins in the IDF, butI was speaking at the time like kind of
just to all Ethiopian and enriching peopleas like metaphorical cousins out there.
Um, yeah.
And it's just wild that I was like, no,this song needs to be on this album.
Yeah.
And then a month later, everythinglike kicked off, you know,
Marcus Harrison Green (49:08):
man, that's, that's the second prophecy.
You, you've sly hadthat you alluded to, to.
Today in this interview, I
Gabriel Teodros (49:14):
don't, I don't think it's a prophecy like mm-hmm.
That's, that's 75 years.
Like people have been, people havebeen vocal about the need to end
the Apartheid state and to Right.
Free Palestine for longer thanI've been alive for a reason.
Right.
People were trying to stop thisfrom happening for decades, so
(49:37):
I don't think it's a prophecy.
It's me echoing things that I've heard.
I think the one thing that wasdifferent was I had been longing to
hear publicly a conversation aboutthe need for Ethiopian orian, African
migrants in general, who live in thestate of Israel, who are horribly
(49:58):
discriminated against in that state.
I never hear conversations about theneed for them to build solidarity
with the Palestinian people.
And it seems like such an obvious link.
I never heard a song about it, sothat's the song that I chose to write,
Marcus Harrison Green (50:13):
you know?
Gabriel Teodros (50:14):
Yeah,
Marcus Harrison Green (50:15):
yeah.
Well that's again, I mean, if you havenot copy the album, I mean, I'm sorry,
it'd be sounding like DJ Khaled hereor whatever, but go, go, go get it.
Damnit.
Um, def that being said, Gabriel,seriously, this has just been an
incredible time with you and it's been a,a privilege thank you to be here with you.
We, uh.
We typically finish every episode, uh,where Nora and I we share our eight
(50:39):
ounces of joy, you know, what is,you know, sort of getting us through
the week, what is, you know, whatare we sort of, um, holding onto and
with all the, the chaos surroundingthe, surrounding the world right now.
And so I wanna ask you thatquestion, like, as you're out here
organizing, as you're making music,as you're, you know, just trying
to be a, a good partner mm-hmm.
(51:00):
To your spouse.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
What is, what is it thatyou're holding onto now?
What are, what are your eight, eightounces of joy that you're, you're trying
your best to squeeze out of the day?
Gabriel Teodros (51:10):
Yeah.
Um, well the sun is shining in Seattleright now, so I have to mention that
first because, you know, we work forthese days, like 10 months of rain
just to have some days like this.
That's real.
So true.
You know, so that's one.
Uh, the family that youmentioned, my spouse, like that
gives me joy every single day.
Um.
(51:32):
Yeah.
Love, you know, um, and actually themusic itself has been giving me joy a lot.
Um, I didn't mention it yet, but 2025has been all about collaboration for me.
I've decided that I'm not doinga solo record this year, but I've
worked on five albums this whole year.
(51:55):
Wow.
And I'm only a primary vocalist on oneof 'em, and it's the first time that,
um, I've been doing that work as aproducer and a couple of 'em are going
to be released in the next few months,and that's given me a lot of joy.
So, yeah.
Oh,
Marcus Harrison Green (52:12):
that's dope.
Gabriel Teodros, September 13th,Palestine will live forever.
Second annual festival over at VolunteerPark in the Capitol Hill neighborhood.
Of Seattle.
Um, no shade at Capitol Hill, althoughthe first one was over in the south end.
But it's, it's all good.
Share.
Share it with the city.
Share it with the city.
I understand,
Gabriel Teodros (52:32):
bro.
It was hard to get, it washard to book this year.
It was hard.
Just people snatched upthem Saturdays early.
Marcus Harrison Green (52:39):
Yeah, that's real.
That's real.
Gabriel Teodros (52:41):
We tried, we really tried to keep it in the south end.
Everything was booked onSaturdays, like through the summer.
Well, hey,
Marcus Harrison Green: well respect to you. (52:48):
undefined
I will definitely be your presence there.
Thank you brother.
And we will, uh, we'll make sure to alsoput a link, uh, for folks who do wanna
donate, um, in support of the festival.
Do thank you family.
Nora Kenworthy (53:00):
And just thank you for reminding us of the
importance of creativity.
And communal joy in these times.
It was a really life-giving conversation.
We appreciate you, you all.
Gabriel Teodros (53:10):
Oh, thank you so much.
It's good to meet you.
Yeah,
Nora Kenworthy (53:12):
you too.
See you at the festival.
Yes.
Gabriel Teodros (53:14):
See you there.
Marcus Harrison Green (53:23):
You know, Nora, I got more insight from that
one conversation than I did fromthree therapy sessions and that pain
killing elixir known as Bacardi Rum.
Which by the way, does not count as selfcare no matter how many candles you light,
Nora Kenworthy (53:36):
I think your therapist would want you to say that.
Right.
It's definitely cheaper and waybetter for your liver and bonus, uh,
does not have any weird aftertasteof regret and emotional avoidance.
But no, seriously,Gabriel is so incredible.
It's a gift to have him with us today.
Marcus Harrison Green: Yeah, no, it truly is. (53:54):
undefined
Nora Kenworthy (53:55):
I think one of the really important things that he
pulls all of us into doing is makingsure that we speak loudly and often
on issues even when they scare us.
And I don't know about you, but Ineeded another reminder of that this
week and I'm really grateful for it.
Marcus Harrison Green (54:12):
I did too.
And just, I'll say just thelevels of grace that Gabriel
approaches people in life with.
Um, you know, I am a personwho was very much at times.
Quick to, quick to anger with, uh, youknow, with certain people who, let's
just say, uh, traffic and ignoranceand, you know, I will say like having
(54:33):
Gabriel as an example of, I've learnedto have a lot more grace in life and
I'm very thankful to him for that.
Nora Kenworthy (54:41):
Yeah.
He exudes it constantly, which I don'tknow how a person can do, but yeah.
Props to him for being our role model.
Marcus Harrison Green (54:50):
Absolutely.
I, I do want to be him when I dofinally choose to grow up, but so like
a few years away, A few years away.
Anyhow.
Um, that being said, Nora,why don't we get into our
eight ounces of joy for today?
Nora Kenworthy (55:03):
I would love that.
I wanna preface this bysaying it's a really weird.
Um, eight ounces of joy.
Um, we lost this week the poet AndreaGibson, um, who I think to so many people
was just such an incredible voice of whatit means to live in a time of sorrow and
(55:25):
fear and just do it anyways, uh, with joy.
And so I know a lot of folksare really grieving right now.
And, and so it feels a little weird tosay like, this is also a source of joy,
but I think Andrea themselves said that.
They wanted people to recognize thatwhen they finally passed, um, that,
(55:45):
you know, they lived with cancerfor a really long time, right?
That they wanted people to see itas a victory rather than a defeat.
Um, and I think the victory is thatall of us are sitting with their words.
Um, and, and their memories this weekand in particular, I came across, um,
something they said, um, this week.
Uh, I think they said it in around 2020.
(56:06):
Um, but they said in the end, I want myheart to be covered in stretch marks.
And I love that reminder to allof us to expand our hearts even
when things are really scary.
Yeah.
Marcus Harrison Green (56:22):
Wow.
Um, that is in incredible, Ihave to say, like I, I feel.
Very much like mine is extremelytrivial in the face of that.
You, you go with, oh,
Nora Kenworthy (56:31):
I'm sorry.
Marcus Harrison Green (56:32):
You go, you go, you go with, with a generational poet.
And I go with like a, uh, like someterrible IP from Warner Brothers.
Uh, but
Nora Kenworthy (56:43):
anyhow, you know, it takes both, it takes
both to have joy these days.
Marcus Harrison Green (56:47):
That is true.
Uh, I will, I'll, I'll keep this brief,but I, um, I saw, I recently saw the,
uh, the new Superman movie directed byJames Gunn and I actually did a review
about it for the, the stranger and.
Um, for those who, who don't know,it was getting attacked prior to its
release, uh, from a lot of conservativegroups, including, uh, Fox News who
(57:12):
were talking about it was too woke.
It was this and that.
And they, the main issue they took withit was the fact that the director James
Gunn said that, you know, Superman's besttraits is in the fact that he can, you
know, bench press skyscrapers or leap tallbuildings or has heat vision or whatever.
It's that he has, you know, thisthing called human kindness that is
(57:32):
very much in short supply these days.
And, um, I always just saylike, I, you know, Superman
has been one of my favorite.
Sort of mythical charactersince I was a young boy.
And my, my dad, he would, uh, work twojobs to afford, uh, sending me to Catholic
school when I was, um, when I was younger.
And he would, you know, his wayof, besides working his ass off
(57:54):
of showing that he loved me was,you know, to sit by the fireplace.
And he would read, you know,Superman comic books to me.
And, and I think, you know, what I, whatI said in my piece is, is true today.
As, as, as, as when I was.
Younger is that, you know,ultimately we're living now.
Right.
Very much so.
I, I think we're acutely aware of thissort of narrative battle that we have,
(58:16):
you know, of, you know, how we shouldcomport ourselves in society when, you
know, we had an, our episode earlierabout toxic, um, empathy supposedly.
Mm-hmm.
And how, you know, that has become,you know, more and more mainstream.
And so to me, to have, you know, eventhough it is a mythical story, right?
But to have an example of somebody whouses their power for not themselves,
(58:42):
not to, to fly above people, but to walkalongside them and to truly just help
them to be not a savior, but a servant.
Um, you know, as the, you know, comicbook nerd know, the very first page
of the first Superman comic booksays he fights for the oppressed.
Right.
And to even have, you know, ina, as, as kind of, you know,
(59:04):
our conversation with Gabriel.
Sort of elucidated, right?
I mean, it's, if you canhave more people, right?
Saying, you know, speaking upand, and speaking for the, the
right thing, that's important.
But I also think the more storieswe can have, you know, regardless of
whether they're true or not, but just,you know, even just these motifs in
life that we can have that speak towhat is right and what is just, and,
(59:26):
and, you know, what is transformative?
Um, I think all the better.
So, um, I'm all in for Superman.
I, Jesus, I'm, I'm plugging Bacardiup here at Bay and I guess Superman.
I, I promise you, I'm a man of the left.
I promise you folks,
Nora Kenworthy (59:41):
we're, we're gonna work on the sponsorships though, so we
get some credit for these, for these.
Shout out.
No, but I think, I think it's true.
We need as many myths and storiesthat will sustain us as possible.
And apparently Republicans are scared of.
Even the most white mainstream characters.
So keep yeah, keep freaking them out.
(01:00:03):
Keep telling stories thatkeep them up at night.
Marcus Harrison Green (01:00:06):
And a and a quick shout out though, 'cause
I, um, and I put this in my piece.
So Superman was actually created,uh, by two, two Jewish men who
were, uh, children of immigrants.
And, you know, he very much underscores,uh, I guess in, in the, the Jewish
faith is called to come alum.
Mm-hmm.
And it's meaning to helprepair the world, right?
(01:00:26):
Yeah.
And so there's a verymuch an analog to, uh.
Gaza in this movie, as shall we say.
And um, I was in the theater with,uh, uh, one of my roommates in the
theater, uh, was a Jewish woman whostarted to cry during, uh, the film.
And then I, after I asked her afterwards,you know, sort of what was going
on and, and she said, you know, shefelt one, that her Jewish identity
(01:00:49):
was actually portrayed truly righton, on screen, even though it was.
This big budget blockbuster in the senseof you have this Jewish coded character
who for the first time is played by aJewish actor in his 87 year history.
Yeah.
Who is really living up to theideals as she saw it, of Judaism.
And she was saying it, it just spoketo her that more, uh, not just Jewish
(01:01:14):
people, but all of us need to adoptthat posture of speaking up, you
know, for, for the folks in Gaza.
Um, you know, as this, uh, thismurderous, uh, genocide continues on, so.
Nora Kenworthy (01:01:27):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Marcus Harrison Green (01:01:30):
All right.
Yeah.
Well, that being said, so yes, youcan, you can all be, we can all
be superheroes just by raising ourvoice to put a fine point on it.
Um, God, I'm sounding like one of those.
The more you grow, the more you know.
Anyway, before I get too cornyhere, uh, let me go ahead
and read us out for the day.
Uh.
Thank you audience again for joiningus for the another episode of In
(01:01:53):
the Meanwhile, as always, a hugeshout out to our brainiac producer,
Jessica, part now, and to the musicalsavant the ham AO for our show music.
You can find and follow us on all of yourfavorite podcast platforms are on YouTube.
Instagram are blue sky.
New episodes drop every Friday, and untilthen, we'll catch you in the meanwhile.
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