May 31, 2024 • 32 mins
As recently as the 1980s, only 10 wineries existed in Chile, making wines that were -- at best -- OK. Today, there are hundreds of Chilean wineries, making good to outstanding wines, many of which are highly coveted by savvy wine collectors. Aurelio Montes Jr. tells the story of how his father kickstarted a winemaking revolution in Chile -- and what father and son are doing next to rock the wine world (despite the persistence of hungry beavers).
If you hurry, you can buy Montes Folly (mentioned in the episode) at Wine365.com -- but ONLY AT THIS EXCLUSIVE LINK: https://wine365.com/folly.
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Episode Transcript
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Joe (00:00):
Chile has made wine for centuries, but it's only in the last 20 years that collectors are hunting down bottles from Chile to add to their cellars. Today you'll hear Aurelio Montes Jr. Tell the story of how his father pioneered a wine making revolution, and why you should be seeking the world class wines of Chile for both enjoyment and collecting. This is the Inside Wine Podcast. I am Joe Janish, a certified specialist of wine and wine industry professionals since 1996, giving you insider tips to make the right wine decisions. Aurelio, thank you for joining us today. Let's get right into it. We talk about Chile 30 years ago, no appellation system, a dozen wineries, and now over 100 wineries. Appellation systems is still evolving, but you have regions starting to get into sub regions. What happened 30 years ago? (00:00):
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Aurelio (01:02): Yeah. what happened? You know, it's the evolution of any country that produce wine. When we start producing wine, we're talking about. I know, 200 years ago, the main reason was to bring wine to the soldiers, to the priest, you know, for the mass, right? So it was a simple winemaking. Then we realized that our wines wasn't really good, so we, we start producing better wines, but for some reason that I don't understand very well for many years, or we focus into entry level simple wines. And 35 years ago, there was two people, two person that decided to change. This was mainly my father and Miguel Torres, family from Spain. From Spain, yeah. That he decided to move to Chile and to start producing wine from Chile. These two guys, they realized that the quality that we had at the time in Chile was quite unique. (00:01):
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Aurelio (02:09): It was much better than what people used to get used to understand about Chile. So, as you said in Chile in the eighties, beginning of the eighties, there was no more than 10 wineries that, again, focus in simple wines. And my father, with Miguel Torres, they decided to, to start looking for specific vineyards in specific places. And that's the point when Chile changed completely the way of looking our wine making, we realized that producing wine from the Central Valley to the Andes to the coast was completely different in a few miles, separated from a few miles. So when you get closer to the, to the ocean, the weathers get really cold. When you go to the Andes, also get cold, not as cold as the ocean influence, but get cooler than the Central Valley. And Central Valley, we had so many different type of soil weather. (00:02):
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Aurelio (03:09): So Chile is small, narrow, long country, but with many mountains, many, many mountains, everywhere you look, you're gonna find mountains. So also the way how the land evolved, we're talking about million years ago, is the type of soil that you can get in Chile. So now in Chile, you can really get different type of wine, depending where you're planting in terms of how close of the ocean, how close of the Andes, and also how the land is facing the north, the east, the west. So that's why my father and Miguel Torres decided to go not one step, three or four step over in, in term of quality, because they realized there was so many places that we could produce good wines. And after that, of course, many wineries start looking to us saying, what are are doing all these crazy guys, you know, producing premium wine from Chile, who's gonna buy a bottle of a premium wine from Chile? (00:03):
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Aurelio (04:14): So my father proved that the world was open for Chile, not only for the entry level, also for premium wine. And after that, many, many wineries joined to this adventure, and they start producing wines, premium wine from different places. And after that, we were obliged as a country to start talking about different DO, or denominations, right? So today we have, you know, I, to be honest with you, I don't know how many, but it could be more than a hundred denominations, depending if you're in the coast, in the Andes, in the Central Valley, in the south and the north. So all of them are separated, so you can get different styles. And since that till today, not only we, we grow in term of premium wines, we also grow in term of amount of wineries. Today there's so many new wineries with new philosophies. (00:04):
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Aurelio (05:10): So in Chile, you can find the most craziest wine to the most classic wines. So it's for everyone. So if you are more inside of the natural wine, or you are more crazy in term of varieties like Cinsault, Mission or Pais, you're gonna find crazy, amazing wine. But also, if you want, if you are the more traditional wine lover with a Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah, Merlot, even the new grape of the world that is Carmenere, Carmenere that we're doing so well in Chile, you know, you have to try Chile because you're gonna find amazing, amazing wines of that grapes. So we move from different places. (00:05):
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Joe (05:52): Yeah. It sounds like you're starting to discover the different terroirs of the land. You're starting to figure out which grapes grow, where your dad was a big part of that too, right? (00:06):
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Aurelio (06:01): Definitely. Yes. (00:07):
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Joe (06:02): I've heard a story about your dad planting Syrah. (00:08):
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Aurelio (06:07): Yeah. (00:09):
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Joe (06:08): Tell me this story because it's, it's something that really I think has changed the whole mindset of, of Chile and terroir and, and the idea that you can grow things other than Merlot and Cabernet. (00:10):
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Aurelio (06:19): Well, in Chile, if you go back to the eighties when everyone was focused on, on entry level wines, there was mainly two grapes, Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. Right? Okay. Mainly that's it. And then in the south of Chile was Cinsault, Pais, and other grape that was used for really rich, cheap wines. So with, with all this new move of, of, of trying to show a different Chile, my father was really excited about finding specific terroir for specific grapes. So he start trying new grapes. Today, Montes, we have Tempranillo, Marselan, Touriga, Tannat, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Albarino. We have so many because our DNA, you know, is pioneer is looking for new grapes in, in new places. And Syrah at that time, we're talking about the end of the nineties, was a completely unknown grape, not only for Chile, for the world. I know that, you know, the Rhone area, it's quite known for, but that's it. (00:11):
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Aurelio (07:20): But most of the people that drink Rhone area around wine don't know exactly that is Syrah or Shiraz. And Australia at that time was also an unknown, unknown country. Australia was even smaller than Chile. When you talk about export. Yeah, right. In the, in of the eighties or the nineties, sorry. And my father, after traveling to the Rhone area, he realized that the terroir, the soil exposition, the the hillside of Chile was quite similar. So he decide to make the risk, to take the risk. So he planted the first Syrah ever in Chile, but not only planted, he decide to plant it in the first ever done very steep, slow plantation that is three time more expensive, not only to plant also three time more expensive to work with the vines, because of course, is everything handmade. And not only that, you need trained people because you have to climb. (00:12):
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Aurelio (08:18): It's really steep. And my father was so convinced that that was the way to produce premium Syrah. And he, well, after a few years of researching trying the grape, he realized, okay, we have something, have something unique. And the funny story is that I was, at that time I was living in Australia. I spent one year working in different wineries, and I met John Duval that used to be the, the wine maker of Grange. Sure. At that time was the, it was the wine maker of Grange. Yeah. The most known Syrah from Australia. So we had a meeting with him, and we show him the wine, and, we ask him, what do you think about this Syrah? And he really was crazy. What, you have something here, you have something really special. So that was our last punch to, to take the decision to, to produce this Syrah. (00:13):
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Aurelio (09:08): And of course, we, we have this beautiful Syrah, but we needed a name, we needed a concept to express this crazy evolution of the Syrah in Chile. And and that's why when one of the, one of the partner, my father, another crazy guy, he met Ralph Steadman for people that doesn't know was Ralph Steadman. Ralph Steadman is a very well known guy. He's he's illustrator. He is a guy that, one of the guys that paint the album, "The Wall" from Pink Floyd. Mm-Hmm. really, really crazy guy. And he met Mr. Douglas Murray, the partner of my father. He traveled together in the north of Chile. He built an amazing relationship both. And after that, he got Ralph Steadman and got in love with Montes, got in love with Chile, and he has been painting for us because our label, half of the label is established label, and that half we change every year with a different paint. And Ralph Steadman had been painting for 23 years for the Folly. And the funny story is that for free, it's, he, he's really so in love with Montes that he paint for free. We keep him we keep sending him a lot of wine. (00:14):
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Joe (10:27): Yeah, I'm sure he's (00:15):
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Aurelio (10:28): Getting something. Exactly. It is, it's, we, you know, we really keep him happy, irritate him, you know, we keep very, very happy with the, with the wine. So we send him wine so he can enjoy and love, keep loving the, the wine. So it's a amazing story from the wine making side is a, is amazing story from the labeling story, and has been a, a quite successful wine, really successful wine unique, has been selected many times in different magazine as a really unique and top Syrah from the world. So, we're happy. It's a single block wine. So it's a really small production, but quite unique. (00:16):
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Joe (11:11): Yeah. How, how big is the vineyard? It's gotta be a tiny vineyard. If it's on the hillside like that. (00:17):
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Aurelio (11:15): It is, it's, it is four hectares. Not a hundred percent of the hectare are used for Fsolly. So our four hectares, very steep plantation. So we map every year the vineyard. So we took like the filet of the Yeah. Of the vineyard. Okay. Only for, for Folly. So, (00:18):
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Joe (11:34): So in this, so this was inspired in part from the northern Rhone, like the Hermitage? (00:19):
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Aurelio (11:40): Exactly. Okay. Exactly. The, the only thing that people ask me all the time is like, Aurelio, what is the style of the Folly? It's a French style. It's a Australian style, and I have to be a barrier with you. It's a Chilean style. Yeah. It's spicy, it's soft, it's big. So it has some, a little bit of everything. But one of the things that describe perfectly Chilean wines are that spiciness that make the wine so crispy. So unique. (00:20):
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Joe (12:14): So what was the first vintage of Folly? (00:21):
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Aurelio (12:16): The year 2000. (00:22):
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Joe (12:18): 2000. Yeah. And so now we're here in February of 2024. (00:23):
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Aurelio (12:23): Exactly. (00:24):
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Joe (12:24): How have the wines been aging? (00:25):
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Aurelio (12:26): You know, we were very afraid of the evolution of the wine. We didn't have the experience. Sure, yeah. Because it's brand new. Brand new, yeah. That's always the risk of being the first. Yeah. That you don't have any, any number, you don't have any information about how the wine's gonna evolve in the future. And also, we had been moving slowly from different style of the wine at the beginning, at the beginning of the two south. And the wine was a concentrate, was big, was a blockbuster. Yeah. You know, it was a big boy. That was the style of the wine that people wanted to drink at that time. Sure. Today it's completely different. It's really elegant. It's still big wine because it, it's bigger than Cabernet. It's bigger than Cabernet or Merlot, but the city is so elegant, the wine is so the crispy fresh. (00:26):
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Aurelio (13:25): So the, the first years when the wine was too big, the evolution was really good. But today with the new style, the, the, the evolution of the wine is even much better. It's stay with the amazing color because of the acidity, because the tannins, because of the, of the condition of the wine today are more ageable, better for aging than in the past. So still, but I, every year I open all the years from 2000 till 2022 that the current harvest, 21, sorry, is the current harvest, but 22 is still, now is in the bottle. So every year we try all of them. And I can tell you that the wine without any problem, age perfectly for 20 years. Oh, (00:27):
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Joe (14:14): Wow. (00:28):
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Aurelio (14:14): Yeah. (00:29):
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Joe (14:15): That's amazing. Yeah. (00:30):
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Aurelio (14:16): It's really, really, I, I'm not that patient to wait 20 years. I, (00:31):
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Joe (14:20): I'm not waiting 20 years, maybe I'll wait two years, three, five. Exactly. But it, it is still open and, and enjoyable. You could pop it open. Right? (00:32):
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Aurelio (14:28): I mean, for me, that's the biggest, biggest advantage of Chile. That the wines, 90% of the wine that you're gonna buy it, it's gonna be ready to drink today. You want, if you want to age the wines, you can age it. Of course, if you want to age longer, you know, you need to go to more expensive wines. More unique wines. Yeah. But most of the wine, let's, let's talk about price in between 20, 30, $40 a bottle, retail price. The wine's gonna be ready to drink today. Right? You don't need to wait. Not even one year. It is in the market. It's because the wine is ready to be drink. (00:33):
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Joe (15:05): Let's talk a little bit about those, those more unique wines, those more expensive ones, because it feels like right now Chile is starting to have a real moment that seems like the really savvy collectors, the wine collectors and connoisseurs are starting to look at Chile and they're saying, oh, there are some interesting things there. And the, and they're very quietly buying them and stashing them in the cellar. And it, and it's a very interesting thing to see that this whole new evolution in Chile with the really high-end wines. So you mentioned Folly being one of these wines that can be in a cellar for 20 years. So I could see a collector being interested in that. What are some other, some of the wines that, you know, Montes has, or I guess, I guess it's the areas like the regions of Chile where you've seen, you know, the same kind of a thing as a folly. The where, where like the terroir and the grape match perfectly and can create these amazing, amazing wines that the collectors are all going after. What are some of the other wines that you're looking at, like that (00:34):
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Aurelio (16:08): Since we started, Montes has been focused on premium wines. Yeah. So always looking up, right, looking for the, I, I will not say perfection, but looking for the best terroir for each grape. So today we produce two type of Cabernet Sauvignon. One is a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon with the Cabernet Franc, Petit Verdot, Merlot that is from, called Colchagua Valley. That's the Montes "M". And then we just started a few years ago with a new project. It's not anymore a project with a new wine called Muse. That's a hundred percent Cabernet Sauvignon from Maipo Valley, one of the most known and respected areas for Cabernet Sauvignon. We also have Purple Angel, of course, one of the most known wine from Montes. And I would say one of the most known wine from Chile. Yeah. Inside of the premium wine, of course, there's other brands that are much more known. (00:35):
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Aurelio (17:03): But in the more into, in the entry level line, one of the things I can tell you about Chile, not only about Montes, I, I want to be very clear that if you look, the magazines, the most known magazines, Wine Spectator, Wine Enthusiast, James Suckling and so on, Chile has been improving strongly in the right things of the wines. Today we have a few hundred points. We have a, a Chilean industry 99 98 points. So for collectors that normally follow this magazines to understand how is the quality of Chile, take one minute, follow this. All this wine I'm telling to you, Montes M, Puple Angel, Folly and the ratings all has been very high. Very high. So it's a good starting point to explain that it's not only my opinion, it's only from the expert of the world in England, in United States, in in Asia, and all these wines. (00:36):
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Aurelio (18:02): Let's start with the, with the Caberet Sauvignon having two different type of Cabernet Sauvignon. That one is a, is more a blend because it's 80% Cabernet sauvignon, and then the rest are other grapes. The Montes "M" is a really classic wine for me. It's a classic with all the personality of Chilean taste with the spiciness, soft tannins. Let's talk about, again, ageability. Huge ageability. Huge. The same of the Muse of, of, of the Maipo area. Completely different styles. The Montes, because we have Petit Verdot because we have Cabernet Franc, a Merlot. The wine is stronger, beautiful tannins. So we'll say really strong ageability. The Montes Muse, that's from Maipo Valley, it's even softer. I would say. It's more feminine. It's really floral. Also with some spiciness in the back. Really, really classic. Beautiful. And I would say higher acidity, softer tannins. So it's a wine that also with a big ageability, but a little bit less than the "M" then the, well, the Folly we just talked about the Folly, the, the Syrah. (00:37):
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Aurelio (19:13): And, and one of the most unique wine is the Purple Angel. The Purple Angel has been a rockstar for Chile, rockstar for Montes. This wine always, always with amazing ratings and also amazing comments from the consumers. That's the thing that I prefer to hear, is a wine that it's a a hundred percent or almost a hundred, a hundred percent Carmenere. Our, we call it national grape. Mm-Hmm. for people that's know what is Carmenere is a Bordeaux grape come from Bordeaux, but disappear in 1800 with all the phylloxera pest. And in Chile, we have pure Carmenere that we brought it before the, the pest. And we have been studying the grape. We have been looking for specific soils. Carmeneres are quite, quite a, a complicated grape to grow. Really complicated. One of the most complicated grape to grow in the world. That's why you can't find it in other places. (00:38):
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Aurelio (20:11): Nowhere, never see it anywhere. No, it's so complicated. It's so, it's so, could be so unfriendly grape if you're not in the best place. But when you find the place, the grape is magical. It's soft, it's big in term of really, really power in terms of flavors, spices, black fruit, dark fruit. That's why we call Purple Angel, because it's so dark, so purple that when you look, the wine looks, it's charming. It's the latest grape to harvest. You need to wait really long into the autumn to harvest the, the grape. That's why it's so challenging, because you're always afraid of the rains coming from the Yeah. Coming, closing, getting closer. But because you, you're almost in into the winter when you harvest. And we added a little bit of Petit Verdot to make the wine a little bit more complex. And that wine has been, been really, really a rockstar because it's so drinkable at the same time. So complex. (00:39):
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Joe (21:15): It's interesting, the, the way you're talking about Carmenere in so many ways, it reminds me of Pinot Noir and Burgundy, right. For so many years that was, sure everyone tried to grow Pinot Noir, but it only really was magical in Burgundy for a long time. It sounds very similar story (00:40):
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Aurelio (21:32): Exactly the same. And exactly as, as complicate, I I always say the most complicated grape to grow in the world, it's Pinot Noir. Mm-Hmm. Pinot Noir is really, really complicated. If you get too much sun, you burn the grapes. If it's too cold, you never rip the grape. And then you have to be just in the perfect place. The soil, it's so important for, for the, for the Pinot Noir. Well, and then the second most complicated, I would say will be for sure Carmenere. Because, and that's why both grapes are hard to produce in the world. You know, it's, it's, that's why it's so unique from Burgundy. And Carmenere is so unique from Chile. (00:41):
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Joe (22:13): Yeah. Every place has their grape. Right. (00:42):
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Aurelio (22:15): Exactly. Exactly. (00:43):
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Joe (22:17): You know, the more you're talking also about Purple Angel, it seems to me like it's to Chile what Penfolds Grange to Australia, you know, and, and there was that moment when Penfolds Grange became the IT wine or whatever you want to call it, and it, and everybody fell in love with it. And I feel like there are a lot of people that have fallen in love with Purple Angel, but it still hasn't like, reached that, that pinnacle or whatever it is. Like, do you think that moment is coming soon where, you know, like that watershed moment or whatever it's, you wanna say where, where people are just gonna go, oh, is it going to be Purple Angel that does it? Or you think it'll be something else that just really brings Chile to the forefront, (00:44):
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Aurelio (22:56): I think, Carmenere and Purple Angel is gonna be one of the main actors of, of this grow. Yeah. Chile's an amazing country. Yeah. Everyone say that is the Switzerland from from Latin America. It's a safe country. It's a clean country. We're really focused on sustainability everywhere. We have huge national parks. It's more extreme big rivers. It's, it's a pure country. Yeah. But not many people know about Chile. That's our biggest problem, you can call it. Problem is that Australia for example, it's known as a, you know, as a wild, also country as a kangaroos are. Yeah. You know, outback, (00:45):
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Joe (23:43): Crocodile Dundee (00:46):
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Aurelio (23:44): The movie. Right. Exactly. That make a huge difference. And we need that, that effort, not only from the wine industry, also from the government to start promoting Chile, because Chile, we have a unique style of food that match perfectly with our wines. We have landscape, we have, I, I would say the second or third biggest snow fields for people that like to ski. Mm. So it's a country, perfect country. When you, when you think about South Hemisphere, where to ski, the best place in the South Hemisphere by far is Chile. We have an amazing, amazing place to ski, even over a volcano, active vol, volcanos. We have a snow. Whoa. Really. And you can see the smoke coming from the top of the mountain. And in the night you can see the, the, the red, you know, fire coming outside of the volcano. And you can ski there. (00:47):
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Aurelio (24:39): So for me, wine also represent a culture. When I, when I buy a bottle of let's say Burgundy, or let's say Tuscany, I travel to the place. Mm-Hmm. I know. It's not only the wine when we're talking about premium wine. Yeah. When you buy a cheap wine, doesn't matter where it come from. Right. It's, it is wine. Right. It's a party wine. Let's go, let's have fun, good price with decent wine. Sure. But when you go for a specific and unique wine like Purple Angel, you have to travel to one place. And until, if you make me choose one thing to change, I will say I will, I will say we need to put all our effort, not all in the wine making, also in promoting Chile as a beautiful country is the driest desert of the world. The Patagonian glaciers, the, you know, the ski, the everything that goes together with the wine and makes a unique and specific wine. (00:48):
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Joe (25:35): We need more people to go visit. (00:49):
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Aurelio (25:37): Exactly. Exactly. (00:50):
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Joe (25:38): That makes sense. That makes sense. Exactly. So you mentioned before how your dad and your family and and Montes has always been pioneers. Yeah. What crazy thing is your dad and you doing now? What, what are you two doing now? What crazy things are you looking at? (00:51):
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Aurelio (25:54): Well, me as a second generation of wine making, winemaker, sorry. The family and in charge of the wine making area today of Montes, I have a big challenge. My challenge is I can never stop. I I have to keep moving. Good. Keep going. Yeah. Keep going. Looking for new places. Today we're doing a few crazy things like working deeply with Touriga Nacional, that's very well known. Interesting. In Portugal. In Portugal. And we're doing an amazing job. Hopefully soon you're gonna hear a lot about what we're doing. Great. But with the grape. But the most crazy thing that we're doing that we're we planted in 2019 in the extremely south Patagonia area, in the middle of the undiscovered island in the middle of nowhere. So only as an idea, you have to take from Santiago, the capital of Chile, an airplane, two hours to the south, then you have to drive and you have to cross to the big island with a big boat, with a car. And you have to, then once you cross to the main island, you have to drive another two hours to a small town. And then you have to take a boat, a speedboat for 45 minutes in the middle of the ocean to an island. And then you have to walk around 20 minutes to get to the vineyard. (00:52):
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Joe (27:20):, this, this sounds even crazier than the Folly. No, (00:53):
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Aurelio (27:25): Really crazy. Really crazy. We're producing the first sparkling wine from the Patagonia. We're almost ready. The wine is bottled and it's gonna be released in a few more years. Need to be aged in the bottle before we release. Sure. And it's coming. So good. So crazy. (00:54):
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Joe (27:43): Champagne Method? (00:55):
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Aurelio (27:44): Champagne. Yeah, exactly. Traditional method. And it's a combination of different grapes. Mainly from we have from Pinot Gris, Pinot Grigio. Mm-Hmm.. We have a little bit of Riesling, Gewurztraminer, Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, because no one had any experience of that area. So we planted different grapes to know which one of them would be better. Hmm. Today, Riesling are doing so well, Pinot Noir. But the problem with Pinot Noir, I have to tell you something funny. The problem with Pinot Noir is that because it's red and not white, beavers and parrots, they love it. . So we have a huge problem with them. So we put nets, we as a policy of the company, we don't kill any, any animal. Sure. So the guy in charge of the vineyard do something really funny. He put some traps, so they, they get some beavers. Mm-Hmm. , they put it in the boat, rolling boat. He roll the boat to the next island, and, and he released the beavers to the other island. The problem is that the beavers swim. Yeah. So, (00:56):
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Joe (28:59): Yeah, they find their way back. (00:57):
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Aurelio (29:00): Their way back. So, but it's, it's, it's, you know, when you open a new place to put vineyard, it's always, you have this kind of funny things that you have to deal with. Sure. Nature, you know, so well, maybe. So that will be, you know, the two most crazy thing that we're doing now. (00:58):
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Joe (29:17): So maybe you'll grow a vineyard just for the beavers. (00:59):
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Aurelio (29:19): Exactly.. Right. Exactly. (01:00):
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Joe (29:22): So if it takes so, so much effort to get there, just to get to the vineyard, how are you going to get the grapes back and get the wine back? How, how are we going to figure that out? (01:01):
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Aurelio (29:33): It's crazy because we normally, what what we do, we hire a group of people that harvest the grapes. Mm-Hmm. in one day, and then we put it in the boat, you know, with Yeah. And then there's a small truck with cooling system that receive all the grapes, and then they drive all the way up to the winery. Oh my goodness. So it's almost two days to get to the winery, but with the cooling system, the grapes get into the winery in a perfect shape. So it's not an issue, it's not a problem. Maybe in the future we're gonna build a small, you know, facility to make the wine there maybe. But we still in, inside of the research program, normally before we release any wine, took us 10 years to really be sure that the, the quality is gonna be good. (01:02):
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Aurelio (30:24): That, that we can repeat the quality. This is, this is very important because let's say when you play soccer, you can make a goal. Sure. Okay. So maybe in that game you are the rockstar, but to be a really rockstar, you have to be able to make a goal in every game. Right. Like Messi. Okay. Right. Yep. The same with the wines. When you find or discover a new area, a new place, making a good wine one year's not complicated, making a good wine every year is the challenge. And that's when you describe this is a good terroir. So, so we're in that stage where we are trying to understand that if we're gonna be able to produce the same good quality year by year till now, we have been making goals every year,. But we need to be, we, we need to wait if we want to be serious. Yeah. (01:03):
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Joe (31:23): Well, I would agree that Montes, this is definitely the Messi of the Chilean wine world. (01:04):
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Aurelio (31:28):. Yeah. (01:05):
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Joe (31:30): All right. Aurelio thank you so much. This is a, this was a really nice conversation. I appreciate you taking the time. (01:06):
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Aurelio (31:36): No, it's a pleasure. Always talking about Chile and of course about Montes. (01:07):
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Joe (31:40): All right. So I think listener, if you haven't been there yet, you need to visit Chile and, and discover all of the wonder and beauty that is there. (01:08):
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Aurelio (31:48): Definitely. Yes. You're gonna love Chile., (01:09):
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Joe (31:53): Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Aurelio Montes Jr. If you'd like to learn more about the wines of Montes, you can go to their website at Monteswines.com. And because you listened this far, I have a special gift for you. 15% off your entire order at Wine365.com. Use the code CHILE15, that's C-H-I-L-E, one 15, CHILE15. If you get there quickly, there may still be a few bottles left of Montes Folly, one of those amazing wines we talked about today. It's probably the best Syrah coming out of South America, and definitely a wine worth adding to your cellar. Again, go to wine three six five.com, use the code CHILE15 for 15% off your entire order, and no worries. If you're driving around or on the treadmill. You'll find all this information later in the show notes. I'll be back again in about two weeks. In the meantime, remember, wine is food. It comes from a place. Enjoy it responsibly. (01:10):
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Aurelio (01:02): Yeah. what happened? You know, it's the evolution of any country that produce wine. When we start producing wine, we're talking about
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Aurelio (02:09): It was much better than what people used to get used to understand about Chile. So, as you said in Chile in the eighties, beginning of the eighties, there was no more than 10 wineries that, again, focus in simple wines. And my father, with Miguel Torres, they decided to, to start looking for specific vineyards in specific places. And that's the point when Chile changed completely the way of looking our wine making, we realized that producing wine from the Central Valley to the Andes to the coast was completely different in a few miles, separated from a few miles. So when you get closer to the, to the ocean, the weathers get really cold. When you go to the Andes, also get cold, not as cold as the ocean influence, but get cooler than the Central Valley. And Central Valley, we had so many different type of soil weather. (00:02):
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Aurelio (03:09): So Chile is small, narrow, long country, but with many mountains, many, many mountains, everywhere you look, you're gonna find mountains. So also the way how the land evolved, we're talking about million years ago, is the type of soil that you can get in Chile. So now in Chile, you can really get different type of wine, depending where you're planting in terms of how close of the ocean, how close of the Andes, and also how the land is facing the north, the east, the west. So that's why my father and Miguel Torres decided to go not one step, three or four step over in, in term of quality, because they realized there was so many places that we could produce good wines. And after that, of course, many wineries start looking to us saying, what are are doing all these crazy guys, you know, producing premium wine from Chile, who's gonna buy a bottle of a premium wine from Chile? (00:03):
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Aurelio (04:14): So my father proved that the world was open for Chile, not only for the entry level, also for premium wine. And after that, many, many wineries joined to this adventure, and they start producing wines, premium wine from different places. And after that, we were obliged as a country to start talking about different DO, or denominations, right? So today we have, you know, I, to be honest with you, I don't know how many, but it could be more than a hundred denominations, depending if you're in the coast, in the Andes, in the Central Valley, in the south and the north. So all of them are separated, so you can get different styles. And since that till today, not only we, we grow in term of premium wines, we also grow in term of amount of wineries. Today there's so many new wineries with new philosophies. (00:04):
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Aurelio (05:10): So in Chile, you can find the most craziest wine to the most classic wines. So it's for everyone. So if you are more inside of the natural wine, or you are more crazy in term of varieties like Cinsault, Mission or Pais, you're gonna find crazy, amazing wine. But also, if you want, if you are the more traditional wine lover with a Cabernet Sauvignon, Syrah, Merlot, even the new grape of the world that is Carmenere, Carmenere that we're doing so well in Chile, you know, you have to try Chile because you're gonna find amazing, amazing wines of that grapes. So we move from different places. (00:05):
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Joe (05:52): Yeah. It sounds like you're starting to discover the different terroirs of the land. You're starting to figure out which grapes grow, where your dad was a big part of that too, right? (00:06):
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Aurelio (06:01): Definitely. Yes. (00:07):
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Joe (06:02): I've heard a story about your dad planting Syrah. (00:08):
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Aurelio (06:07): Yeah. (00:09):
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Joe (06:08): Tell me this story because it's, it's something that really I think has changed the whole mindset of, of Chile and terroir and, and the idea that you can grow things other than Merlot and Cabernet. (00:10):
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Aurelio (06:19): Well, in Chile, if you go back to the eighties when everyone was focused on, on entry level wines, there was mainly two grapes, Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. Right? Okay. Mainly that's it. And then in the south of Chile was Cinsault, Pais, and other grape that was used for really rich, cheap wines. So with, with all this new move of, of, of trying to show a different Chile, my father was really excited about finding specific terroir for specific grapes. So he start trying new grapes. Today, Montes, we have Tempranillo, Marselan, Touriga, Tannat, Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Albarino. We have so many because our DNA, you know, is pioneer is looking for new grapes in, in new places. And Syrah at that time, we're talking about the end of the nineties, was a completely unknown grape, not only for Chile, for the world. I know that, you know, the Rhone area, it's quite known for, but that's it. (00:11):
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Aurelio (07:20): But most of the people that drink Rhone area around wine don't know exactly that is Syrah or Shiraz. And Australia at that time was also an unknown, unknown country. Australia was even smaller than Chile. When you talk about export. Yeah, right. In the, in of the eighties or the nineties, sorry. And my father, after traveling to the Rhone area, he realized that the terroir, the soil exposition, the the hillside of Chile was quite similar. So he decide to make the risk, to take the risk. So he planted the first Syrah ever in Chile, but not only planted, he decide to plant it in the first ever done very steep, slow plantation that is three time more expensive, not only to plant also three time more expensive to work with the vines, because of course, is everything handmade. And not only that, you need trained people because you have to climb. (00:12):
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Aurelio (08:18): It's really steep. And my father was so convinced that that was the way to produce premium Syrah. And he, well, after a few years of researching trying the grape, he realized, okay, we have something, have something unique. And the funny story is that I was, at that time I was living in Australia. I spent one year working in different wineries, and I met John Duval that used to be the, the wine maker of Grange. Sure. At that time was the, it was the wine maker of Grange. Yeah. The most known Syrah from Australia. So we had a meeting with him, and we show him the wine, and, we ask him, what do you think about this Syrah? And he really was crazy. What, you have something here, you have something really special. So that was our last punch to, to take the decision to, to produce this Syrah. (00:13):
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Aurelio (09:08): And of course, we, we have this beautiful Syrah, but we needed a name, we needed a concept to express this crazy evolution of the Syrah in Chile. And and that's why when one of the, one of the partner, my father, another crazy guy, he met Ralph Steadman for people that doesn't know was Ralph Steadman. Ralph Steadman is a very well known guy. He's he's illustrator. He is a guy that, one of the guys that paint the album, "The Wall" from Pink Floyd. Mm-Hmm.
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Joe (10:27): Yeah, I'm sure he's (00:15):
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Aurelio (10:28): Getting something
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Joe (11:11): Yeah. How, how big is the vineyard? It's gotta be a tiny vineyard. If it's on the hillside like that. (00:17):
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Aurelio (11:15): It is, it's, it is four hectares. Not a hundred percent of the hectare are used for Fsolly. So our four hectares, very steep plantation. So we map every year the vineyard. So we took like the filet of the Yeah. Of the vineyard. Okay. Only for, for Folly. So, (00:18):
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Joe (11:34): So in this, so this was inspired in part from the northern Rhone, like the Hermitage? (00:19):
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Aurelio (11:40): Exactly. Okay. Exactly. The, the only thing that people ask me all the time is like, Aurelio, what is the style of the Folly? It's a French style. It's a Australian style, and I have to be a barrier with you. It's a Chilean style. Yeah. It's spicy, it's soft, it's big. So it has some, a little bit of everything. But one of the things that describe perfectly Chilean wines are that spiciness that make the wine so crispy. So unique. (00:20):
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Joe (12:14): So what was the first vintage of Folly? (00:21):
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Aurelio (12:16): The year 2000. (00:22):
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Joe (12:18): 2000. Yeah. And so now we're here in February of 2024. (00:23):
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Aurelio (12:23): Exactly. (00:24):
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Joe (12:24): How have the wines been aging? (00:25):
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Aurelio (12:26): You know, we were very afraid of the evolution of the wine. We didn't have the experience. Sure, yeah. Because it's brand new. Brand new, yeah. That's always the risk of being the first. Yeah. That you don't have any, any number, you don't have any information about how the wine's gonna evolve in the future. And also, we had been moving slowly from different style of the wine at the beginning, at the beginning of the two south. And the wine was a concentrate, was big, was a blockbuster. Yeah. You know, it was a big boy. That was the style of the wine that people wanted to drink at that time. Sure. Today it's completely different. It's really elegant. It's still big wine because it, it's bigger than Cabernet. It's bigger than Cabernet or Merlot, but the city is so elegant, the wine is so the crispy fresh. (00:26):
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Aurelio (13:25): So the, the first years when the wine was too big, the evolution was really good. But today with the new style, the, the, the evolution of the wine is even much better. It's stay with the amazing color because of the acidity, because the tannins, because of the, of the condition of the wine today are more ageable, better for aging than in the past. So still, but I, every year I open all the years from 2000 till 2022 that the current harvest, 21, sorry, is the current harvest, but 22 is still, now is in the bottle. So every year we try all of them. And I can tell you that the wine without any problem, age perfectly for 20 years. Oh, (00:27):
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Joe (14:14): Wow. (00:28):
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Aurelio (14:14): Yeah. (00:29):
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Joe (14:15): That's amazing. Yeah. (00:30):
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Aurelio (14:16): It's really, really, I, I'm not that patient to wait 20 years. I, (00:31):
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Joe (14:20): I'm not waiting 20 years, maybe I'll wait two years, three, five. Exactly. But it, it is still open and, and enjoyable. You could pop it open. Right? (00:32):
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Aurelio (14:28): I mean, for me, that's the biggest, biggest advantage of Chile. That the wines, 90% of the wine that you're gonna buy it, it's gonna be ready to drink today. You want, if you want to age the wines, you can age it. Of course, if you want to age longer, you know, you need to go to more expensive wines. More unique wines. Yeah. But most of the wine, let's, let's talk about price in between 20, 30, $40 a bottle, retail price. The wine's gonna be ready to drink today. Right? You don't need to wait. Not even one year. It is in the market. It's because the wine is ready to be drink. (00:33):
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Joe (15:05): Let's talk a little bit about those, those more unique wines, those more expensive ones, because it feels like right now Chile is starting to have a real moment that seems like the really savvy collectors, the wine collectors and connoisseurs are starting to look at Chile and they're saying, oh, there are some interesting things there. And the, and they're very quietly buying them and stashing them in the cellar. And it, and it's a very interesting thing to see that this whole new evolution in Chile with the really high-end wines. So you mentioned Folly being one of these wines that can be in a cellar for 20 years. So I could see a collector being interested in that. What are some other, some of the wines that, you know, Montes has, or I guess, I guess it's the areas like the regions of Chile where you've seen, you know, the same kind of a thing as a folly. The where, where like the terroir and the grape match perfectly and can create these amazing, amazing wines that the collectors are all going after. What are some of the other wines that you're looking at, like that (00:34):
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Aurelio (16:08): Since we started, Montes has been focused on premium wines. Yeah. So always looking up, right, looking for the, I, I will not say perfection, but looking for the best terroir for each grape. So today we produce two type of Cabernet Sauvignon. One is a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon with the Cabernet Franc, Petit Verdot, Merlot that is from, called Colchagua Valley. That's the Montes "M". And then we just started a few years ago with a new project. It's not anymore a project with a new wine called Muse. That's a hundred percent Cabernet Sauvignon from Maipo Valley, one of the most known and respected areas for Cabernet Sauvignon. We also have Purple Angel, of course, one of the most known wine from Montes. And I would say one of the most known wine from Chile. Yeah. Inside of the premium wine, of course, there's other brands that are much more known. (00:35):
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Aurelio (17:03): But in the more into, in the entry level line, one of the things I can tell you about Chile, not only about Montes, I, I want to be very clear that if you look, the magazines, the most known magazines, Wine Spectator, Wine Enthusiast, James Suckling and so on, Chile has been improving strongly in the right things of the wines. Today we have a few hundred points. We have a, a Chilean industry 99 98 points. So for collectors that normally follow this magazines to understand how is the quality of Chile, take one minute, follow this. All this wine I'm telling to you, Montes M, Puple Angel, Folly and the ratings all has been very high. Very high. So it's a good starting point to explain that it's not only my opinion, it's only from the expert of the world in England, in United States, in in Asia, and all these wines. (00:36):
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Aurelio (18:02): Let's start with the, with the Caberet Sauvignon having two different type of Cabernet Sauvignon. That one is a, is more a blend because it's 80% Cabernet sauvignon, and then the rest are other grapes. The Montes "M" is a really classic wine for me. It's a classic with all the personality of Chilean taste with the spiciness, soft tannins. Let's talk about, again, ageability. Huge ageability. Huge. The same of the Muse of, of, of the Maipo area. Completely different styles. The Montes, because we have Petit Verdot because we have Cabernet Franc, a Merlot. The wine is stronger, beautiful tannins. So we'll say really strong ageability. The Montes Muse, that's from Maipo Valley, it's even softer. I would say. It's more feminine. It's really floral. Also with some spiciness in the back. Really, really classic. Beautiful. And I would say higher acidity, softer tannins. So it's a wine that also with a big ageability, but a little bit less than the "M" then the, well, the Folly we just talked about the Folly, the, the Syrah. (00:37):
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Aurelio (19:13): And, and one of the most unique wine is the Purple Angel. The Purple Angel has been a rockstar for Chile, rockstar for Montes. This wine always, always with amazing ratings and also amazing comments from the consumers. That's the thing that I prefer to hear, is a wine that it's a a hundred percent or almost a hundred, a hundred percent Carmenere. Our, we call it national grape. Mm-Hmm.
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Aurelio (20:11): Nowhere, never see it anywhere. No, it's so complicated. It's so, it's so, could be so unfriendly grape if you're not in the best place. But when you find the place, the grape is magical. It's soft, it's big in term of really, really power in terms of flavors, spices, black fruit, dark fruit. That's why we call Purple Angel, because it's so dark, so purple that when you look, the wine looks, it's charming. It's the latest grape to harvest. You need to wait really long into the autumn to harvest the, the grape. That's why it's so challenging, because you're always afraid of the rains coming from the Yeah. Coming, closing, getting closer. But because you, you're almost in into the winter when you harvest. And we added a little bit of Petit Verdot to make the wine a little bit more complex. And that wine has been, been really, really a rockstar because it's so drinkable at the same time. So complex. (00:39):
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Joe (21:15): It's interesting, the, the way you're talking about Carmenere in so many ways, it reminds me of Pinot Noir and Burgundy, right. For so many years that was, sure everyone tried to grow Pinot Noir, but it only really was magical in Burgundy for a long time. It sounds very similar story (00:40):
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Aurelio (21:32): Exactly the same. And exactly as, as complicate, I I always say the most complicated grape to grow in the world, it's Pinot Noir. Mm-Hmm.
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Joe (22:13): Yeah. Every place has their grape. Right. (00:42):
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Aurelio (22:15): Exactly. Exactly. (00:43):
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Joe (22:17): You know, the more you're talking also about Purple Angel, it seems to me like it's to Chile what Penfolds Grange to Australia, you know, and, and there was that moment when Penfolds Grange became the IT wine or whatever you want to call it, and it, and everybody fell in love with it. And I feel like there are a lot of people that have fallen in love with Purple Angel, but it still hasn't like, reached that, that pinnacle or whatever it is. Like, do you think that moment is coming soon where, you know, like that watershed moment or whatever it's, you wanna say where, where people are just gonna go, oh, is it going to be Purple Angel that does it? Or you think it'll be something else that just really brings Chile to the forefront, (00:44):
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Aurelio (22:56): I think, Carmenere and Purple Angel is gonna be one of the main actors of, of this grow. Yeah. Chile's an amazing country. Yeah. Everyone say that is the Switzerland from from Latin America. It's a safe country. It's a clean country. We're really focused on sustainability everywhere. We have huge national parks. It's more extreme big rivers. It's, it's a pure country. Yeah. But not many people know about Chile. That's our biggest problem, you can call it. Problem is that Australia for example, it's known as a, you know, as a wild, also country as a kangaroos are. Yeah. You know, outback, (00:45):
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Joe (23:43): Crocodile Dundee (00:46):
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Aurelio (23:44): The movie. Right. Exactly. That make a huge difference. And we need that, that effort, not only from the wine industry, also from the government to start promoting Chile, because Chile, we have a unique style of food that match perfectly with our wines. We have landscape, we have, I, I would say the second or third biggest snow fields for people that like to ski. Mm. So it's a country, perfect country. When you, when you think about South Hemisphere, where to ski, the best place in the South Hemisphere by far is Chile. We have an amazing, amazing place to ski, even over a volcano, active vol, volcanos. We have a snow. Whoa. Really
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Aurelio (24:39): So for me, wine also represent a culture. When I, when I buy a bottle of let's say Burgundy, or let's say Tuscany, I travel to the place. Mm-Hmm. I know. It's not only the wine when we're talking about premium wine. Yeah. When you buy a cheap wine, doesn't matter where it come from. Right. It's, it is wine. Right. It's a party wine. Let's go, let's have fun, good price with decent wine. Sure. But when you go for a specific and unique wine like Purple Angel, you have to travel to one place. And until, if you make me choose one thing to change, I will say I will, I will say we need to put all our effort, not all in the wine making, also in promoting Chile as a beautiful country is the driest desert of the world. The Patagonian glaciers, the, you know, the ski, the everything that goes together with the wine and makes a unique and specific wine. (00:48):
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Joe (25:35): We need more people to go visit. (00:49):
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Aurelio (25:37): Exactly. Exactly. (00:50):
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Joe (25:38): That makes sense. That makes sense. Exactly. So you mentioned before how your dad and your family and and Montes has always been pioneers. Yeah. What crazy thing is your dad and you doing now? What, what are you two doing now? What crazy things are you looking at? (00:51):
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Aurelio (25:54): Well, me as a second generation of wine making, winemaker, sorry. The family and in charge of the wine making area today of Montes, I have a big challenge. My challenge is I can never stop. I I have to keep moving. Good. Keep going. Yeah. Keep going. Looking for new places. Today we're doing a few crazy things like working deeply with Touriga Nacional, that's very well known. Interesting. In Portugal. In Portugal. And we're doing an amazing job. Hopefully soon you're gonna hear a lot about what we're doing. Great. But with the grape. But the most crazy thing that we're doing that we're we planted in 2019 in the extremely south Patagonia area, in the middle of the undiscovered island in the middle of nowhere. So only as an idea, you have to take from Santiago, the capital of Chile, an airplane, two hours to the south, then you have to drive and you have to cross to the big island with a big boat, with a car. And you have to, then once you cross to the main island, you have to drive another two hours to a small town. And then you have to take a boat,
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Joe (27:20):
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Aurelio (27:25): Really crazy. Really crazy. We're producing the first sparkling wine from the Patagonia. We're almost ready. The wine is bottled and it's gonna be released in a few more years. Need to be aged in the bottle before we release. Sure. And it's coming. So good. So crazy. (00:54):
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Joe (27:43): Champagne Method? (00:55):
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Aurelio (27:44): Champagne. Yeah, exactly. Traditional method. And it's a combination of different grapes. Mainly from we have from Pinot Gris, Pinot Grigio. Mm-Hmm.
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Joe (28:59): Yeah, they find their way back. (00:57):
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Aurelio (29:00): Their way back. So, but it's, it's, it's, you know, when you open a new place to put vineyard, it's always, you have this kind of funny things that you have to deal with. Sure. Nature, you know, so well, maybe. So that will be, you know, the two most crazy thing that we're doing now. (00:58):
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Joe (29:17): So maybe you'll grow a vineyard just for the beavers. (00:59):
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Aurelio (29:19): Exactly.
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Joe (29:22): So if it takes so, so much effort to get there, just to get to the vineyard, how are you going to get the grapes back and get the wine back? How, how are we going to figure that out? (01:01):
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Aurelio (29:33): It's crazy because we normally, what what we do, we hire a group of people that harvest the grapes. Mm-Hmm.
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Aurelio (30:24): That, that we can repeat the quality. This is, this is very important because let's say when you play soccer, you can make a goal. Sure. Okay. So maybe in that game you are the rockstar, but to be a really rockstar, you have to be able to make a goal in every game. Right. Like Messi. Okay. Right. Yep. The same with the wines. When you find or discover a new area, a new place, making a good wine one year's not complicated, making a good wine every year is the challenge. And that's when you describe this is a good terroir. So, so we're in that stage where we are trying to understand that if we're gonna be able to produce the same good quality year by year till now, we have been making goals every year,
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Joe (31:23): Well, I would agree that Montes, this is definitely the Messi of the Chilean wine world. (01:04):
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Aurelio (31:28):
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Joe (31:30): All right. Aurelio thank you so much. This is a, this was a really nice conversation. I appreciate you taking the time. (01:06):
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Aurelio (31:36): No, it's a pleasure. Always talking about Chile and of course about Montes. (01:07):
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Joe (31:40): All right. So I think listener, if you haven't been there yet, you need to visit Chile and, and discover all of the wonder and beauty that is there. (01:08):
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Aurelio (31:48): Definitely. Yes. You're gonna love Chile.
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Joe (31:53): Thanks so much for listening to my conversation with Aurelio Montes Jr. If you'd like to learn more about the wines of Montes, you can go to their website at Monteswines.com. And because you listened this far, I have a special gift for you. 15% off your entire order at Wine365.com. Use the code CHILE15, that's C-H-I-L-E, one 15, CHILE15. If you get there quickly, there may still be a few bottles left of Montes Folly, one of those amazing wines we talked about today. It's probably the best Syrah coming out of South America, and definitely a wine worth adding to your cellar. Again, go to wine three six five.com, use the code CHILE15 for 15% off your entire order, and no worries. If you're driving around or on the treadmill. You'll find all this information later in the show notes. I'll be back again in about two weeks. In the meantime, remember, wine is food. It comes from a place. Enjoy it responsibly. (01:10):
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