June 16, 2025 • 37 mins
In this #podcast episode, I interview Constance Hastings. I ask Constance about her book the Trouble with Jesus. Constance shares how doubt is not the same as not believing. Constance also shares with you how we struggle today with justice issues.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Thanks for joining us on episode 1549 of the Inspired Stewardship
Podcast. I'm Constance Hastings.
I challenge you to invest in yourself,
invest in others,
develop your influence and impact the world by using your time,
your talent and your treasures to live out your calling.
(00:22):
Having the ability to look at justice with the eyes of
God is key.
And one way to be inspired to do that is is
to listen to this the Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend
Scott Mater.
(00:42):
Given my career path,
given my family life,
I've lived a lot of times,
let's just say,
on the other side,
outside of church.
And I've listened and I've watched and I've had the conversations
with people who are the doubters and who are the scouts
skeptics. Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired
(01:06):
Stewardship Podcast.
If you truly desire to become the person who God wants
you to be,
then you must learn to use your time,
your talent and your treasures for your true calling.
In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast,
you will learn to invest in yourself,
invest in others,
and develop your influence so that you can can impact the
(01:29):
world. In today's podcast episode,
I interview Constance Hastings.
I asked Constance about her book the Trouble with Jesus.
Constance shares how doubt is not the same as not believing.
And Constance also shares with you how we struggle today with
(01:50):
justice issues.
I have a great book that's been out for a while
now called Inspired Assemble the puzzle of your calling by mastering
your your talent and your treasures.
You can find out more about that book over@inspiredlivingbook.com
it'll take you to a page where there's information and you
can sign up to get some mailings about it as well
(02:13):
as purchase a copy there.
I'd love to see you get a copy and share with
me how it impacted your world.
Constance Hastings brings an outsider's perspective to what insiders know about
the story of Jesus.
Raised by non religious parents,
educated in a Christian school,
lover of great literature,
teacher of the disadvantaged,
(02:33):
ordained in a mainline denomination,
a mental health counselor outside of the church,
she aims to make connections,
speaking in new places,
the old voices of meaning with an edgy voice recognized by
those caught in an existential dilemma.
For those who have never or not been in church for
a long time,
for those who used to think they know him,
(02:53):
Constance Hasting confronts your concept of one of the most controversial
figures who ever existed and the trouble Jesus means.
She does that in her book,
the Trouble with Jesus.
Welcome to the show,
Constance. Hi Scott.
Good to be here today.
Absolutely. I'm Happy to have you.
We talked a little bit in the intro about some of
(03:15):
the things you've done,
some of the work you've done,
and how you've been putting out a message into the world.
But at the same time,
I think of intros as like the highlight reel of things.
They never really tell the whole story.
So back up a little bit and walk us through a
little bit of your journey and what brought you to this
point where this is the message you feel compelled to put
(03:36):
out into the world.
I tell people,
Scott, that I'm in a place where I never should have
been. Left to my own desires and ambitions.
I should have been able to have a wonderful career in
education, retire,
enjoy life,
just be with family,
follow my simple hobbies and love it.
(03:57):
But sometimes God has other plans.
And that's specifically what happened to me.
My early story is that I was not raised in a
family that was particularly religious,
or church was something that was done because good people do
that sort of thing,
but never really integrated our beliefs with our lifestyles.
(04:18):
My father owned a bar.
We were growing up at the time of desegregation.
My parents did not want us involved in that.
But right down the street was a small Christian school.
It was independent school,
but it was also relatively inexpensive.
So for what I call all the wrong reasons,
(04:40):
I went to this little Christian school.
It was there that the teachers loved me.
They taught me not just in academics,
but of course in the Bible.
I excelled in that.
And as it was,
I was able at a very young age to take upon
myself a faith in Jesus Christ.
(05:00):
But like I said,
though, I didn't have a church to surround me and hold
me very much through the years and.
But God kept his hand on me.
And as it was when I had my first job in
teaching, my husband was a pastor's kid.
He was very interested in being in church.
(05:22):
So we went to church and I discovered that it was
that I knew more about the Bible than most of the
people there.
And from there I was able to again be embraced.
And I was able to find my gifts.
(05:42):
And at the same time,
I was following a teaching career.
It was a time when I was able to minister to
my students and pray with them.
And I thought God should be pretty happy with all of
that. But it didn't work out that way.
As they recall it,
the hound of heaven grabbed me by the throat and said,
(06:03):
nope, got other plans for you.
Led me to faith based counseling,
which I did for 18 years.
And that was a journey that I never anticipated.
Being in and walking that walk with other people in their
pain and in their seeking as well,
at the same time,
(06:23):
God only knows.
But I was called to a ministry as a deacon in
the Methodist Church,
and I followed that route.
That's how that went.
Learned a lot,
blessed a lot,
stretched a lot in my own faith,
met people that I never would have met otherwise in my
life until in 2018,
(06:44):
my husband said he wanted me to retire and we would
go live in Florida to be near our son.
I had on my heart for about six years a book
to write,
and I told him,
okay, I'll go,
I'll retire,
but you got to give me time and space to do
that. And he did,
(07:05):
and God took it from there.
So God doesn't let you go.
There's always something else.
And in our gifts and in our call,
where he would take us,
and that's exactly what happened there.
When you think about your faith journey,
I think it's.
It's typical and atypical at the same time.
Right. I think there's a lot of folks that are not
(07:26):
brought up in the church,
don't necessarily have a real Christian upbringing,
but then something happens that opens that up,
that door open for them.
Whether it's a relationship with another person,
it's an invitation,
and in your case,
going to the school that you went through something,
God puts those things in our place.
How you see that your faith journey has influenced the life
(07:49):
journey that you've been on,
and how has your life journey influenced your faith?
At this point in my life,
my. My life journey is my faith journey.
I am always looking for where God would take me next,
whether it be a podcast interview,
whether it be speaking someplace,
but it's.
(08:10):
It's definitive and who I am,
and I have family who aren't necessarily believers,
but there is,
over the years,
a sense of respect that they have for me,
and I'm the one they call on in those times,
and I'm very grateful for that.
(08:31):
In my relationships,
it's so important in.
I'm in life groups and have those kinds of relationships,
but also my journey's been one where I was able to
facilitate a Celebrate recovery group and wow,
the people that I met and how much they taught me
(08:53):
about the work of God in one's life and bringing about
those reversals that we need to be able to live and
be loved by God.
And that's all been very tremendous.
So I can't say one was able to deviate from the
other. They just intermingled over the years.
And so it is.
(09:13):
That's where God has brought me.
Well, and what's interesting,
too, to me is I like to remind people that.
Not that church is not important.
I believe church is very important to our journey as Christians.
But at the same time,
some of the strongest Christians people I've met maybe have never
actually set foot in a church,
if that makes sense.
(09:34):
Coming from our side of the world,
that doesn't seem fair.
But God can work with that.
It does.
Seriously. Sometimes I meet him and I'm like,
I really need you to go to church because you're.
You really know you've been touched by God in a way
that. That maybe you don't even realize.
I'd love to see you inside the building,
too. But for various reasons,
trauma and other things,
(09:55):
that. That may not be something that they can find themselves.
Finding themselves to do.
Talking about your book,
you mentioned that was your passion to.
To write the book.
After y' all moved,
talk a little bit about the trouble with Jesus and what
is it about?
What does it mean to you?
Why was this the book that God put on your heart?
Again, given my career path,
(10:16):
given my family life,
I've lived a lot of times,
let's just say,
on the other side,
outside a church,
and I've listened and I've watched and I've had the conversations
with people who are the doubters and who are the skeptics.
It began.
The inspiration that was most prevalent,
(10:36):
you'll see in the book is the voice of this doubter
and skeptic.
But it's one to which I have listened for a very
long, long time.
In doing so,
I was able to,
let's just say,
fashion the book not from the usual sense of this is
Jesus, but how these doubters and skeptics,
(10:59):
how the world comes to Jesus and that,
that was the formative part of it.
However, when the book,
the manuscript was pretty much complete,
I had an editor read it who was a confirmed skeptic
herself. And I wanted that.
And I said,
I want you.
Let me know.
(11:20):
Does this sound to you?
Does this speak where you're coming from?
And she was very good about it,
and in doing that,
but she said to me,
when we were about finished,
especially in the later chapters of the book,
there are some parts in here that we'll just call the
narration, but there is a sense of doubt that is being
(11:41):
spoken even in the narration.
And I'm like,
what? And I went through and read it and was like,
whoa, those are my doubts.
That's where I'M coming from.
And I had to refashion those chapters in that way.
But it really clarified for me how all of us have
(12:03):
places where we don't have answers and we sit in just,
just not quite convinced.
We could call it faith place.
And so we need to still look at that and wrestle
with that.
In counseling.
We call it peeling away the layers of an onion.
And a life journey is like that.
You, you have to come to that place where you have
(12:26):
to continually re examine and question where you are and ask
God to speak into it.
Yeah, I know for me,
I, I am,
I'm a skeptic.
I have doubts and I'm very aware of them.
And yet I'm also a person of faith.
I don't necess necessarily think that because I think a lot
of times people assume that,
oh, if you're a believer,
(12:47):
it means you have no doubts when it's,
oh, that's not what that means.
So talk a little bit about that.
What do you see as that tension that we have as
believers, but yet,
like you just said,
there's still doubts that we have to wrestle with.
How does that play out in your life and in the
book when you're writing this for skeptics?
(13:08):
In my own life.
Let's just say that when I pray,
like most people,
we pray God.
We need help on this.
And I have a pretty good idea what God ought to
do about it.
We sometimes say we serve God in an advisory capacity.
And it's not that I doubt or question whether God can,
(13:34):
but it's whether God will.
And I have had times in my life where I have
just had to sit there and wait and watch and just
see what God was going to do because things were just
so bad.
And unfortunately we get to that point sometimes where we don't
know what to pray for.
And that's a tough place to be.
(13:57):
It occurred to me when my father was dying and as
it was,
our church was in chaos and all the supports that I
should have had weren't there and a lot of questions about
what my role had been in that church and what I
should do next and just really struggling.
(14:17):
And then my father,
who as far as anybody would know was not a believer.
You know,
however, my father,
my daddy had been very proud of what I was doing.
And sometimes when I would speak,
he would come hear me,
had to do some family funerals.
(14:38):
And of course he was there for that,
so he was getting a message,
but I couldn't see it playing out in beliefs.
And I was there In.
At the hospice facility the night before he died,
a nurse came in to talk to me,
and she said to me,
(14:58):
this is the time when people have that last conversation with
God. And it struck me how God's grace is that hound
of heaven just follows us and grabs us,
and the love of God will not let us go,
(15:21):
even when we,
for all practical purposes,
believe that someone has no thought processes or could never make
a decision for God.
And yet God is still there.
God is in that soul.
And as it was,
this nurse had children who were attending that little Christian school
(15:45):
that I had gone to,
and I told her about my own salvation experience there and
how at the age of seven,
on my knees in my bed,
I felt so responsible that Jesus had to die for me
and asked that he forgive me.
(16:07):
And I felt an immediate physical relief in that moment.
And I knew that was my salvation.
It wasn't much longer after that I was leaving.
And as I was going out,
it occurred to me the last thing my father heard from
me was my salvation story.
(16:31):
And that was a place where I realized that no matter
what happened,
no matter how God worked this,
that he was there.
And I left feeling such a.
And I still have it to this day,
a sense of confidence and peace and where my father is.
(16:51):
So that's.
That's what God does.
And that's the place where we.
When we are in that tension,
as you call it,
we can sit back and watch and,
as I sometimes say,
wonder at what God will do.
Yeah. One of the things I Actually,
a few months ago,
I released an episode,
one of my solo episodes,
where what I was wrestling with and talking about was,
(17:15):
again, a lot of times we set up this tension and
we say doubt and belief are opposites.
And I actually don't think that.
I think belief and fear are opposites.
I think the fear is what pulls us away from belief
much more than doubts,
if that makes sense.
It does.
Yeah. And I think a lot of times where we mess
up is when,
quite frankly,
(17:35):
when I have no doubts that I'm right no matter what
and everything,
I've solved it all.
And I know in some ways I'm putting myself in the
position of God as opposed to the position of submission.
Oh, nobody does that,
Scott. Right.
Oh, I only do it on days that end in y.
The rest of the time,
I'm fine.
(17:56):
Yeah. Yeah.
In my book,
the. In.
In the latter chapters,
I talk about three places where these characters,
on whose shoulders we stand when it comes to faith,
really struggled in their own ways with death.
We look at John the Baptist and here he was sitting
(18:17):
in the pit of Herod's prison,
and he sends his messengers to Jesus and says,
are you for real?
Are you really the Baptist?
You really the Messiah?
This is John the Baptist,
right? The one who baptized Jesus,
who had known him from the womb.
And yet Jesus replies to him,
yes, the blind will see,
(18:38):
the lame will walk,
the. The oppressed will be set free.
But he leaves out that verse from Isaiah where the captives
will be set free.
And he was telling John,
it's not going to happen for you,
John. But then he says,
blessed are those who take no offense with me.
(18:59):
Blessed are those who can sit in that place and still
believe. When we say who I am.
There also is the man who comes to Jesus and his
son was,
as they said then,
possessed by demons.
And he asked Jesus,
he says,
if you can,
(19:21):
will you heal him?
And Jesus said to him,
what do you mean if I can?
And he says,
lord, I believe.
Just help my unbelief.
And yep,
that's where we are.
We can still believe and not have that,
that absolute 100%,
I know this is going to happen,
don't talk to me about it kind of thing.
(19:42):
And then let's not forget Peter and what happened to him
and how he turned away because the Messiah that he always
had believed in didn't turn out to be the Messiah that
he thought he was.
And his journey back.
Thomas there.
And Jesus said,
blessed are you who believe,
(20:02):
but blessed are those who have yet and come to believe.
That's the rest of us.
So doubt is very much a part of Jesus story.
It's not.
I like the way you say faith and fear are opposite,
but not doubt.
Doubt is maybe a place of,
I don't know,
ignition for belief to come.
(20:24):
And that's the role that it plays in this.
And I also think it helps us live in the world
but not be of the world.
That when we see things like social justice issues and inequality,
abuse, or all of the other things that confront us every
day to,
to wrestle with that and be in a place of I,
(20:47):
I believe that God exists.
I believe there's good in the world.
But yet.
And what can I do?
What is my message?
So how do you see the challenge that we have playing
out around faith and around again the worldly issues,
justice, equality,
equity, those sorts of things.
(21:09):
Jesus made it very clear that those he loved best were
the ones that nobody else wanted.
Yeah, we talk about the tax collectors,
prostitutes and other notorious sinners.
And yet it was to them that Jesus moved and most
dearly loved them and wanted to help them find a release
(21:33):
given as well.
Because of the oppression that the Jews were experiencing from the
Romans and within the temple leadership,
the oppression of the priest upon them as well.
Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.
And yet Jesus did not give up on them.
What I think that is for us though,
(21:55):
particularly in this day and age,
is a call to examine our lifestyles and how are we
living in such a way that is oppressive for others Now.
I don't know what I can do about it,
but I live in a place where every time we flush
a toilet it goes into the city to a wastewater treatment
(22:16):
place. And when the Delaware river floods,
it backs up not to my house,
but into the homes of those people who have to live
near the river and are in a place of poverty.
I don't know what I could do about it and then
move, but it'd still be here.
(22:37):
And yet I have a sense there.
That's what happens in my life and how even though as
we say,
I never started it,
I never made that happen.
It wasn't my fault,
but I contribute to it.
And another way in which I look at it is through
our tax systems.
Some places are thinking about doing away with property tax and
(23:01):
depending upon sales taxes and other taxes that the government uses.
That's wonderful for people who are very wealthy and live in
big homes and have lots large amount of property tax.
But for somebody on the other end of the spectrum in
economic status,
(23:21):
it's oppressive because that means the taxes that they pay for
every little thing that they need is going to go up.
I think Covid revealed that too.
I was in a place during COVID and the state would
actually have a sales tax on diapers.
I'm like,
diapers? Why diapers?
(23:43):
And eventually they did repeal that.
Covid made that happen.
But that's what I'm talking about.
We really have to be careful and examine who we are.
We all like to think if we contribute to the right
organizations that people will be helped.
But we're called to have relationship and that end relationship.
Learn to see how people actually live and what it means
(24:08):
on their end because of how we live.
And I think it's the efficient water doesn't necessarily know it's
in water.
I think it's very easy,
especially in the United States to become unaware of the vast
amount of privilege we may have.
I'm a.
I'm an older white male with gray hair.
If I get pulled over by a police Officer,
(24:30):
I'm not really concerned.
It doesn't,
it doesn't worry me at all.
Odds are really good.
I'm getting a warning and going on my way,
or maybe a ticket and going on my way.
But there are other people where that same interaction,
it's not going to play out that way.
And there's fear.
Even if the fear is not justified,
it doesn't matter.
(24:51):
It's still present because of their learned and lived experience.
And just being aware of that is,
is something.
Like you said,
I don't know how I could fix that other than voting
and other activities that I do.
But it's still reality right now.
And that's not,
that's not the reality.
I want to exist.
Yes, it is.
But I've also been given a measure of position where I
(25:15):
can speak to it,
like right now.
And that's where it starts.
We can't be silent.
We can't just say,
well, it's not my fault.
It's. There's nothing I could do about it,
so I'm just not going to do anything.
Yeah. And again,
I think the first step is awareness because I think there
are people that are very unaware of.
I, I've traveled internationally to third world countries to do work.
(25:36):
And it's amazing when you go to Santiago,
Chile, and see the people that are living and real true,
abject poverty.
And it's,
wait a minute.
I am incredibly blessed by the fact that I live in
a house with air conditioning that works and all of these
sorts of things.
Yeah, yeah.
But, yeah,
(25:57):
we have to become aware of it.
So I've got a few questions that I like to ask
all of my guests.
But before I ask you those,
is there anything else about the work you do or the
book, the trouble with Jesus,
that you'd like to share with the listener?
As I said,
the trouble with Jesus has that voice of the doubter and
the skeptic in it.
And that voice challenges the narration,
(26:18):
the story of Jesus.
And at some points there's even almost like a dialogue.
I think of it as a,
as almost like a Greek chorus that is commenting on the
narration. And that works well because we're talking about the Gospels,
which were written in the first century.
People living in that context were familiar with Greek drama and
(26:38):
they were familiar with how,
how this interplay happened.
So that's what I'm pulling from in there.
In, in total,
the book is written for that doubter and for that skeptic.
And so I've had people who affirmed,
watching them blood believers read it and go,
oh, my.
(26:59):
It points when you.
This voice was speaking.
I'm going,
ouch. And that's okay.
But what I hope and pray is that people who have
on their heart someone who is not a believer,
who is that skeptic,
who would just assume,
like the ritual or walk away,
that first of all people would be in prayer for them,
(27:22):
stay in deep,
tight relationship with them,
and when it's they're ready,
be able to maybe give them the book and say,
this is the trouble with Jesus considerations.
Before you walk away,
if you'll read this,
could we have a conversation and then let the Holy Spirit
(27:43):
do what the Holy Spirit does?
So my brand is inspired stewardship,
and I run things through that lens of stewardship.
And yet that's one of those words that I've discovered over
the years can mean a lot of different things to a
lot of different people.
So when you hear the word stewardship,
what does that word mean to you and how has it
impacted you?
Obviously, when you first hear the word stewardship,
(28:05):
you think of money.
One of the chapters in the book is the trouble with
Jesus is he talked too much about money.
There's only over 2000 verses.
What are you talking about?
Someone said,
and I haven't done my own analysis,
but I think in the Gospel of Luke,
Jesus talks more about money than he does about prayer.
(28:26):
So it's a pretty big deal in that regard.
And we can look at the parables.
So many of the parables have something to do with money.
And the.
The one as far as stewardship that's always pulled out of
the bag is the one of the servants who the master
gives 10 talents,
five talents and one talent.
And the first two servants,
(28:47):
they take their money,
they invest it,
the master comes back,
he's very pleased with them,
and says,
blessed are you.
And then to the one servant who only had one talent,
who had buried it,
not done anything,
the master's not very pleased with that.
Basically has the servant kicked out and gives his share to
the other,
the one who had increased his money the most.
(29:10):
Oh, God,
what kind of financial plan are you working for?
But I think what it shows us is that the blessings
that we have are not ours.
They belong to God.
And God wants us to see them used and be fruitful
and grow.
Now, yes,
(29:31):
that parable,
I think it's in Luke 19,
it's one that is.
I don't want to put it.
It's a parable that speaks,
as I said,
on the surface,
to money.
But as the old translations Use the word talent.
In our culture,
that means a whole lot more.
And we're talking our gifts that we have of time,
(29:54):
of the abilities that we have,
of what God has given to us that we can share
as well with others.
So all of that,
and I'm sure you've discussed this many other times in your
work, is the stewardship that God has given to us.
And we can take care of those,
whether it be in our personal health,
(30:15):
something in our family,
we can work on them,
give them to God,
and let God use those for the blessings that he would
have for his kingdom.
Yeah, two things.
Two things that always strike me.
One is in that parable,
it's also very clear that the talent that the servant who
(30:36):
buries the talent,
it's actually out of fear that the servant is acting.
And again,
that's. That idea of fear is actually not the fruit of
the spirit that allows us to.
To serve well.
So I.
I think it reinforces that concept too.
And yeah,
one of the things I tell people about my show is
I'm trying to reclaim the word stewardship from.
(30:56):
Hey, we're starting a building campaign and we need your donations,
which is unfortunately,
what has come to mean in a lot of church settings.
So this is my favorite question that I like to ask
everyone. Imagine for a moment that I invented this magic machine.
And with this machine,
I was able to take you from where you are today
and transport you into the future,
(31:17):
maybe 150,
maybe 250 years.
And through the power of this machine,
you were able to look back and see your entire life,
see all of the connections,
all of the ripples,
all of the impacts you've left behind.
What impact do you hope you've left in the world?
Oh, wow.
I hope that in all humility,
(31:38):
the people,
people have seen that I have had a willingness to answer
God's call upon my life.
Now, sometimes people think that we have to be bold and
brash with that sort of thing.
I haven't mentioned this before,
but when God created me,
he created a really confirmed introvert,
(32:01):
and I'm not the best with large crowds and so forth.
And there it was on Christmas Eve,
and I was preaching to over 300 people.
But it's.
It shows that God can take us as we are and
bring us to a place,
mold us in a way that we don't anticipate,
(32:25):
but it does bring him glory.
And at this stage in my life,
yes, I've been a teacher,
I have been a mental health counselor.
I've worked in the church I've had all those relationships and
now I have this book.
And the prayer is that this book will be able to
go forth.
(32:45):
It has my name on it,
but it's not of me.
It is of God.
And to speak to people that I'll never know,
I'll never meet.
But that's okay.
And that's how God basically works,
that he takes where someone is in a particular time and
place and he can expand it.
(33:08):
I don't 100,
200 years from now,
who knows what will happen with the book.
But the message,
it's the message.
I hope that continues in whatever form that God can put
it in.
Absolutely. So what's on the roadmap?
What's coming next for you?
Continue on this journey.
(33:29):
I'm working on a blog.
I have a blog that's a companion to the book.
It's also called the Trouble with Jesus and you can find
it on my website.
Constance hastings.com
subscribe it comes out weekly.
It does usually have that voice of the doubter and skeptic
(33:50):
in it,
as well as dealing with a gospel passage and again,
that challenge.
But of course it's whereas it's related to,
like I said,
a companion to the book,
it goes in shorter spurts,
let's just say.
So someone could read it once a week for about 10
minutes and use that as their meditation.
(34:12):
So that that's my primary work beyond that and otherwise just
being where God would have me go.
Last month I was God talking about God blessing something.
My husband and I went to Tuscaloosa,
Alabama, to the Southern Christian Writers Conference and the book was
named the 2024 Notable Book Award.
(34:35):
Awesome. Yeah.
Like I said,
I've never would have been to Tuscaloosa,
Alabama, but I've got that sense of willingness that where God
calls, I'm ready to go.
I have the health and means do.
And with a message that has been given to me to
give to others.
So you can find out more about Constant Hastings in her
(34:57):
book and the blog over@constant Hastings.com
of course,
I'll have a link to that over in the show notes
as well.
Constance, anything else you'd like to share with the listener?
As we've talked about and I love the way Scott positioned
this is that when you have your doubts,
when you just don't know,
(35:19):
you you wonder what is God doing?
How can this be?
Whether it be in your personal life or as you look
into the discord that is out there nationally,
those voices,
whether it be something that God has brought upon you on
a global sense.
Do not despair.
(35:39):
Yes, there are times when we wonder,
we question,
we watch.
We hope that God will do something.
But again,
do not despair.
Because that love that we know of God is based in
grace. And grace is something that just permeates the whole kingdom
and is there for everyone.
(36:00):
So I hope and pray for each of you who hear
this. You're able to live into that and learn to bring
it to others in your own life.
Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.
As a subscriber and listener,
(36:21):
we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen,
but act on what you've heard and find a way to
live your calling.
If you enjoyed this episode,
please please do a a favor.
Go over to inspired stewardship.com
iTunes Rate all one word iTunes Rate.
(36:47):
It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review
and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so
that you can get every episode as it comes out in
your feed.
Until next time,
invest your time,
time, your talent and your treasures.
Develop your influence and impact the world.
Thanks for joining us on episode 1549 of the Inspired Stewardship
Podcast. I'm Constance Hastings.
I challenge you to invest in yourself,
invest in others,
develop your influence and impact the world by using your time,
your talent and your treasures to live out your calling.
(00:22):
Having the ability to look at justice with the eyes of
God is key.
And one way to be inspired to do that is is
to listen to this the Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend
Scott Mater.
(00:42):
Given my career path,
given my family life,
I've lived a lot of times,
let's just say,
on the other side,
outside of church.
And I've listened and I've watched and I've had the conversations
with people who are the doubters and who are the scouts
skeptics. Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired
(01:06):
Stewardship Podcast.
If you truly desire to become the person who God wants
you to be,
then you must learn to use your time,
your talent and your treasures for your true calling.
In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast,
you will learn to invest in yourself,
invest in others,
and develop your influence so that you can can impact the
(01:29):
world. In today's podcast episode,
I interview Constance Hastings.
I asked Constance about her book the Trouble with Jesus.
Constance shares how doubt is not the same as not believing.
And Constance also shares with you how we struggle today with
(01:50):
justice issues.
I have a great book that's been out for a while
now called Inspired Assemble the puzzle of your calling by mastering
your your talent and your treasures.
You can find out more about that book over@inspiredlivingbook.com
it'll take you to a page where there's information and you
can sign up to get some mailings about it as well
(02:13):
as purchase a copy there.
I'd love to see you get a copy and share with
me how it impacted your world.
Constance Hastings brings an outsider's perspective to what insiders know about
the story of Jesus.
Raised by non religious parents,
educated in a Christian school,
lover of great literature,
teacher of the disadvantaged,
(02:33):
ordained in a mainline denomination,
a mental health counselor outside of the church,
she aims to make connections,
speaking in new places,
the old voices of meaning with an edgy voice recognized by
those caught in an existential dilemma.
For those who have never or not been in church for
a long time,
for those who used to think they know him,
(02:53):
Constance Hasting confronts your concept of one of the most controversial
figures who ever existed and the trouble Jesus means.
She does that in her book,
the Trouble with Jesus.
Welcome to the show,
Constance. Hi Scott.
Good to be here today.
Absolutely. I'm Happy to have you.
We talked a little bit in the intro about some of
(03:15):
the things you've done,
some of the work you've done,
and how you've been putting out a message into the world.
But at the same time,
I think of intros as like the highlight reel of things.
They never really tell the whole story.
So back up a little bit and walk us through a
little bit of your journey and what brought you to this
point where this is the message you feel compelled to put
(03:36):
out into the world.
I tell people,
Scott, that I'm in a place where I never should have
been. Left to my own desires and ambitions.
I should have been able to have a wonderful career in
education, retire,
enjoy life,
just be with family,
follow my simple hobbies and love it.
(03:57):
But sometimes God has other plans.
And that's specifically what happened to me.
My early story is that I was not raised in a
family that was particularly religious,
or church was something that was done because good people do
that sort of thing,
but never really integrated our beliefs with our lifestyles.
(04:18):
My father owned a bar.
We were growing up at the time of desegregation.
My parents did not want us involved in that.
But right down the street was a small Christian school.
It was independent school,
but it was also relatively inexpensive.
So for what I call all the wrong reasons,
(04:40):
I went to this little Christian school.
It was there that the teachers loved me.
They taught me not just in academics,
but of course in the Bible.
I excelled in that.
And as it was,
I was able at a very young age to take upon
myself a faith in Jesus Christ.
(05:00):
But like I said,
though, I didn't have a church to surround me and hold
me very much through the years and.
But God kept his hand on me.
And as it was when I had my first job in
teaching, my husband was a pastor's kid.
He was very interested in being in church.
(05:22):
So we went to church and I discovered that it was
that I knew more about the Bible than most of the
people there.
And from there I was able to again be embraced.
And I was able to find my gifts.
(05:42):
And at the same time,
I was following a teaching career.
It was a time when I was able to minister to
my students and pray with them.
And I thought God should be pretty happy with all of
that. But it didn't work out that way.
As they recall it,
the hound of heaven grabbed me by the throat and said,
(06:03):
nope, got other plans for you.
Led me to faith based counseling,
which I did for 18 years.
And that was a journey that I never anticipated.
Being in and walking that walk with other people in their
pain and in their seeking as well,
at the same time,
(06:23):
God only knows.
But I was called to a ministry as a deacon in
the Methodist Church,
and I followed that route.
That's how that went.
Learned a lot,
blessed a lot,
stretched a lot in my own faith,
met people that I never would have met otherwise in my
life until in 2018,
(06:44):
my husband said he wanted me to retire and we would
go live in Florida to be near our son.
I had on my heart for about six years a book
to write,
and I told him,
okay, I'll go,
I'll retire,
but you got to give me time and space to do
that. And he did,
(07:05):
and God took it from there.
So God doesn't let you go.
There's always something else.
And in our gifts and in our call,
where he would take us,
and that's exactly what happened there.
When you think about your faith journey,
I think it's.
It's typical and atypical at the same time.
Right. I think there's a lot of folks that are not
(07:26):
brought up in the church,
don't necessarily have a real Christian upbringing,
but then something happens that opens that up,
that door open for them.
Whether it's a relationship with another person,
it's an invitation,
and in your case,
going to the school that you went through something,
God puts those things in our place.
How you see that your faith journey has influenced the life
(07:49):
journey that you've been on,
and how has your life journey influenced your faith?
At this point in my life,
my. My life journey is my faith journey.
I am always looking for where God would take me next,
whether it be a podcast interview,
whether it be speaking someplace,
but it's.
(08:10):
It's definitive and who I am,
and I have family who aren't necessarily believers,
but there is,
over the years,
a sense of respect that they have for me,
and I'm the one they call on in those times,
and I'm very grateful for that.
(08:31):
In my relationships,
it's so important in.
I'm in life groups and have those kinds of relationships,
but also my journey's been one where I was able to
facilitate a Celebrate recovery group and wow,
the people that I met and how much they taught me
(08:53):
about the work of God in one's life and bringing about
those reversals that we need to be able to live and
be loved by God.
And that's all been very tremendous.
So I can't say one was able to deviate from the
other. They just intermingled over the years.
And so it is.
(09:13):
That's where God has brought me.
Well, and what's interesting,
too, to me is I like to remind people that.
Not that church is not important.
I believe church is very important to our journey as Christians.
But at the same time,
some of the strongest Christians people I've met maybe have never
actually set foot in a church,
if that makes sense.
(09:34):
Coming from our side of the world,
that doesn't seem fair.
But God can work with that.
It does.
Seriously. Sometimes I meet him and I'm like,
I really need you to go to church because you're.
You really know you've been touched by God in a way
that. That maybe you don't even realize.
I'd love to see you inside the building,
too. But for various reasons,
trauma and other things,
(09:55):
that. That may not be something that they can find themselves.
Finding themselves to do.
Talking about your book,
you mentioned that was your passion to.
To write the book.
After y' all moved,
talk a little bit about the trouble with Jesus and what
is it about?
What does it mean to you?
Why was this the book that God put on your heart?
Again, given my career path,
(10:16):
given my family life,
I've lived a lot of times,
let's just say,
on the other side,
outside a church,
and I've listened and I've watched and I've had the conversations
with people who are the doubters and who are the skeptics.
It began.
The inspiration that was most prevalent,
(10:36):
you'll see in the book is the voice of this doubter
and skeptic.
But it's one to which I have listened for a very
long, long time.
In doing so,
I was able to,
let's just say,
fashion the book not from the usual sense of this is
Jesus, but how these doubters and skeptics,
(10:59):
how the world comes to Jesus and that,
that was the formative part of it.
However, when the book,
the manuscript was pretty much complete,
I had an editor read it who was a confirmed skeptic
herself. And I wanted that.
And I said,
I want you.
Let me know.
(11:20):
Does this sound to you?
Does this speak where you're coming from?
And she was very good about it,
and in doing that,
but she said to me,
when we were about finished,
especially in the later chapters of the book,
there are some parts in here that we'll just call the
narration, but there is a sense of doubt that is being
(11:41):
spoken even in the narration.
And I'm like,
what? And I went through and read it and was like,
whoa, those are my doubts.
That's where I'M coming from.
And I had to refashion those chapters in that way.
But it really clarified for me how all of us have
(12:03):
places where we don't have answers and we sit in just,
just not quite convinced.
We could call it faith place.
And so we need to still look at that and wrestle
with that.
In counseling.
We call it peeling away the layers of an onion.
And a life journey is like that.
You, you have to come to that place where you have
(12:26):
to continually re examine and question where you are and ask
God to speak into it.
Yeah, I know for me,
I, I am,
I'm a skeptic.
I have doubts and I'm very aware of them.
And yet I'm also a person of faith.
I don't necess necessarily think that because I think a lot
of times people assume that,
oh, if you're a believer,
(12:47):
it means you have no doubts when it's,
oh, that's not what that means.
So talk a little bit about that.
What do you see as that tension that we have as
believers, but yet,
like you just said,
there's still doubts that we have to wrestle with.
How does that play out in your life and in the
book when you're writing this for skeptics?
(13:08):
In my own life.
Let's just say that when I pray,
like most people,
we pray God.
We need help on this.
And I have a pretty good idea what God ought to
do about it.
We sometimes say we serve God in an advisory capacity.
And it's not that I doubt or question whether God can,
(13:34):
but it's whether God will.
And I have had times in my life where I have
just had to sit there and wait and watch and just
see what God was going to do because things were just
so bad.
And unfortunately we get to that point sometimes where we don't
know what to pray for.
And that's a tough place to be.
(13:57):
It occurred to me when my father was dying and as
it was,
our church was in chaos and all the supports that I
should have had weren't there and a lot of questions about
what my role had been in that church and what I
should do next and just really struggling.
(14:17):
And then my father,
who as far as anybody would know was not a believer.
You know,
however, my father,
my daddy had been very proud of what I was doing.
And sometimes when I would speak,
he would come hear me,
had to do some family funerals.
(14:38):
And of course he was there for that,
so he was getting a message,
but I couldn't see it playing out in beliefs.
And I was there In.
At the hospice facility the night before he died,
a nurse came in to talk to me,
and she said to me,
(14:58):
this is the time when people have that last conversation with
God. And it struck me how God's grace is that hound
of heaven just follows us and grabs us,
and the love of God will not let us go,
(15:21):
even when we,
for all practical purposes,
believe that someone has no thought processes or could never make
a decision for God.
And yet God is still there.
God is in that soul.
And as it was,
this nurse had children who were attending that little Christian school
(15:45):
that I had gone to,
and I told her about my own salvation experience there and
how at the age of seven,
on my knees in my bed,
I felt so responsible that Jesus had to die for me
and asked that he forgive me.
(16:07):
And I felt an immediate physical relief in that moment.
And I knew that was my salvation.
It wasn't much longer after that I was leaving.
And as I was going out,
it occurred to me the last thing my father heard from
me was my salvation story.
(16:31):
And that was a place where I realized that no matter
what happened,
no matter how God worked this,
that he was there.
And I left feeling such a.
And I still have it to this day,
a sense of confidence and peace and where my father is.
(16:51):
So that's.
That's what God does.
And that's the place where we.
When we are in that tension,
as you call it,
we can sit back and watch and,
as I sometimes say,
wonder at what God will do.
Yeah. One of the things I Actually,
a few months ago,
I released an episode,
one of my solo episodes,
where what I was wrestling with and talking about was,
(17:15):
again, a lot of times we set up this tension and
we say doubt and belief are opposites.
And I actually don't think that.
I think belief and fear are opposites.
I think the fear is what pulls us away from belief
much more than doubts,
if that makes sense.
It does.
Yeah. And I think a lot of times where we mess
up is when,
quite frankly,
(17:35):
when I have no doubts that I'm right no matter what
and everything,
I've solved it all.
And I know in some ways I'm putting myself in the
position of God as opposed to the position of submission.
Oh, nobody does that,
Scott. Right.
Oh, I only do it on days that end in y.
The rest of the time,
I'm fine.
(17:56):
Yeah. Yeah.
In my book,
the. In.
In the latter chapters,
I talk about three places where these characters,
on whose shoulders we stand when it comes to faith,
really struggled in their own ways with death.
We look at John the Baptist and here he was sitting
(18:17):
in the pit of Herod's prison,
and he sends his messengers to Jesus and says,
are you for real?
Are you really the Baptist?
You really the Messiah?
This is John the Baptist,
right? The one who baptized Jesus,
who had known him from the womb.
And yet Jesus replies to him,
yes, the blind will see,
(18:38):
the lame will walk,
the. The oppressed will be set free.
But he leaves out that verse from Isaiah where the captives
will be set free.
And he was telling John,
it's not going to happen for you,
John. But then he says,
blessed are those who take no offense with me.
(18:59):
Blessed are those who can sit in that place and still
believe. When we say who I am.
There also is the man who comes to Jesus and his
son was,
as they said then,
possessed by demons.
And he asked Jesus,
he says,
if you can,
(19:21):
will you heal him?
And Jesus said to him,
what do you mean if I can?
And he says,
lord, I believe.
Just help my unbelief.
And yep,
that's where we are.
We can still believe and not have that,
that absolute 100%,
I know this is going to happen,
don't talk to me about it kind of thing.
(19:42):
And then let's not forget Peter and what happened to him
and how he turned away because the Messiah that he always
had believed in didn't turn out to be the Messiah that
he thought he was.
And his journey back.
Thomas there.
And Jesus said,
blessed are you who believe,
(20:02):
but blessed are those who have yet and come to believe.
That's the rest of us.
So doubt is very much a part of Jesus story.
It's not.
I like the way you say faith and fear are opposite,
but not doubt.
Doubt is maybe a place of,
I don't know,
ignition for belief to come.
(20:24):
And that's the role that it plays in this.
And I also think it helps us live in the world
but not be of the world.
That when we see things like social justice issues and inequality,
abuse, or all of the other things that confront us every
day to,
to wrestle with that and be in a place of I,
(20:47):
I believe that God exists.
I believe there's good in the world.
But yet.
And what can I do?
What is my message?
So how do you see the challenge that we have playing
out around faith and around again the worldly issues,
justice, equality,
equity, those sorts of things.
(21:09):
Jesus made it very clear that those he loved best were
the ones that nobody else wanted.
Yeah, we talk about the tax collectors,
prostitutes and other notorious sinners.
And yet it was to them that Jesus moved and most
dearly loved them and wanted to help them find a release
(21:33):
given as well.
Because of the oppression that the Jews were experiencing from the
Romans and within the temple leadership,
the oppression of the priest upon them as well.
Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.
And yet Jesus did not give up on them.
What I think that is for us though,
(21:55):
particularly in this day and age,
is a call to examine our lifestyles and how are we
living in such a way that is oppressive for others Now.
I don't know what I can do about it,
but I live in a place where every time we flush
a toilet it goes into the city to a wastewater treatment
(22:16):
place. And when the Delaware river floods,
it backs up not to my house,
but into the homes of those people who have to live
near the river and are in a place of poverty.
I don't know what I could do about it and then
move, but it'd still be here.
(22:37):
And yet I have a sense there.
That's what happens in my life and how even though as
we say,
I never started it,
I never made that happen.
It wasn't my fault,
but I contribute to it.
And another way in which I look at it is through
our tax systems.
Some places are thinking about doing away with property tax and
(23:01):
depending upon sales taxes and other taxes that the government uses.
That's wonderful for people who are very wealthy and live in
big homes and have lots large amount of property tax.
But for somebody on the other end of the spectrum in
economic status,
(23:21):
it's oppressive because that means the taxes that they pay for
every little thing that they need is going to go up.
I think Covid revealed that too.
I was in a place during COVID and the state would
actually have a sales tax on diapers.
I'm like,
diapers? Why diapers?
(23:43):
And eventually they did repeal that.
Covid made that happen.
But that's what I'm talking about.
We really have to be careful and examine who we are.
We all like to think if we contribute to the right
organizations that people will be helped.
But we're called to have relationship and that end relationship.
Learn to see how people actually live and what it means
(24:08):
on their end because of how we live.
And I think it's the efficient water doesn't necessarily know it's
in water.
I think it's very easy,
especially in the United States to become unaware of the vast
amount of privilege we may have.
I'm a.
I'm an older white male with gray hair.
If I get pulled over by a police Officer,
(24:30):
I'm not really concerned.
It doesn't,
it doesn't worry me at all.
Odds are really good.
I'm getting a warning and going on my way,
or maybe a ticket and going on my way.
But there are other people where that same interaction,
it's not going to play out that way.
And there's fear.
Even if the fear is not justified,
it doesn't matter.
(24:51):
It's still present because of their learned and lived experience.
And just being aware of that is,
is something.
Like you said,
I don't know how I could fix that other than voting
and other activities that I do.
But it's still reality right now.
And that's not,
that's not the reality.
I want to exist.
Yes, it is.
But I've also been given a measure of position where I
(25:15):
can speak to it,
like right now.
And that's where it starts.
We can't be silent.
We can't just say,
well, it's not my fault.
It's. There's nothing I could do about it,
so I'm just not going to do anything.
Yeah. And again,
I think the first step is awareness because I think there
are people that are very unaware of.
I, I've traveled internationally to third world countries to do work.
(25:36):
And it's amazing when you go to Santiago,
Chile, and see the people that are living and real true,
abject poverty.
And it's,
wait a minute.
I am incredibly blessed by the fact that I live in
a house with air conditioning that works and all of these
sorts of things.
Yeah, yeah.
But, yeah,
(25:57):
we have to become aware of it.
So I've got a few questions that I like to ask
all of my guests.
But before I ask you those,
is there anything else about the work you do or the
book, the trouble with Jesus,
that you'd like to share with the listener?
As I said,
the trouble with Jesus has that voice of the doubter and
the skeptic in it.
And that voice challenges the narration,
(26:18):
the story of Jesus.
And at some points there's even almost like a dialogue.
I think of it as a,
as almost like a Greek chorus that is commenting on the
narration. And that works well because we're talking about the Gospels,
which were written in the first century.
People living in that context were familiar with Greek drama and
(26:38):
they were familiar with how,
how this interplay happened.
So that's what I'm pulling from in there.
In, in total,
the book is written for that doubter and for that skeptic.
And so I've had people who affirmed,
watching them blood believers read it and go,
oh, my.
(26:59):
It points when you.
This voice was speaking.
I'm going,
ouch. And that's okay.
But what I hope and pray is that people who have
on their heart someone who is not a believer,
who is that skeptic,
who would just assume,
like the ritual or walk away,
that first of all people would be in prayer for them,
(27:22):
stay in deep,
tight relationship with them,
and when it's they're ready,
be able to maybe give them the book and say,
this is the trouble with Jesus considerations.
Before you walk away,
if you'll read this,
could we have a conversation and then let the Holy Spirit
(27:43):
do what the Holy Spirit does?
So my brand is inspired stewardship,
and I run things through that lens of stewardship.
And yet that's one of those words that I've discovered over
the years can mean a lot of different things to a
lot of different people.
So when you hear the word stewardship,
what does that word mean to you and how has it
impacted you?
Obviously, when you first hear the word stewardship,
(28:05):
you think of money.
One of the chapters in the book is the trouble with
Jesus is he talked too much about money.
There's only over 2000 verses.
What are you talking about?
Someone said,
and I haven't done my own analysis,
but I think in the Gospel of Luke,
Jesus talks more about money than he does about prayer.
(28:26):
So it's a pretty big deal in that regard.
And we can look at the parables.
So many of the parables have something to do with money.
And the.
The one as far as stewardship that's always pulled out of
the bag is the one of the servants who the master
gives 10 talents,
five talents and one talent.
And the first two servants,
(28:47):
they take their money,
they invest it,
the master comes back,
he's very pleased with them,
and says,
blessed are you.
And then to the one servant who only had one talent,
who had buried it,
not done anything,
the master's not very pleased with that.
Basically has the servant kicked out and gives his share to
the other,
the one who had increased his money the most.
(29:10):
Oh, God,
what kind of financial plan are you working for?
But I think what it shows us is that the blessings
that we have are not ours.
They belong to God.
And God wants us to see them used and be fruitful
and grow.
Now, yes,
(29:31):
that parable,
I think it's in Luke 19,
it's one that is.
I don't want to put it.
It's a parable that speaks,
as I said,
on the surface,
to money.
But as the old translations Use the word talent.
In our culture,
that means a whole lot more.
And we're talking our gifts that we have of time,
(29:54):
of the abilities that we have,
of what God has given to us that we can share
as well with others.
So all of that,
and I'm sure you've discussed this many other times in your
work, is the stewardship that God has given to us.
And we can take care of those,
whether it be in our personal health,
(30:15):
something in our family,
we can work on them,
give them to God,
and let God use those for the blessings that he would
have for his kingdom.
Yeah, two things.
Two things that always strike me.
One is in that parable,
it's also very clear that the talent that the servant who
(30:36):
buries the talent,
it's actually out of fear that the servant is acting.
And again,
that's. That idea of fear is actually not the fruit of
the spirit that allows us to.
To serve well.
So I.
I think it reinforces that concept too.
And yeah,
one of the things I tell people about my show is
I'm trying to reclaim the word stewardship from.
(30:56):
Hey, we're starting a building campaign and we need your donations,
which is unfortunately,
what has come to mean in a lot of church settings.
So this is my favorite question that I like to ask
everyone. Imagine for a moment that I invented this magic machine.
And with this machine,
I was able to take you from where you are today
and transport you into the future,
(31:17):
maybe 150,
maybe 250 years.
And through the power of this machine,
you were able to look back and see your entire life,
see all of the connections,
all of the ripples,
all of the impacts you've left behind.
What impact do you hope you've left in the world?
Oh, wow.
I hope that in all humility,
(31:38):
the people,
people have seen that I have had a willingness to answer
God's call upon my life.
Now, sometimes people think that we have to be bold and
brash with that sort of thing.
I haven't mentioned this before,
but when God created me,
he created a really confirmed introvert,
(32:01):
and I'm not the best with large crowds and so forth.
And there it was on Christmas Eve,
and I was preaching to over 300 people.
But it's.
It shows that God can take us as we are and
bring us to a place,
mold us in a way that we don't anticipate,
(32:25):
but it does bring him glory.
And at this stage in my life,
yes, I've been a teacher,
I have been a mental health counselor.
I've worked in the church I've had all those relationships and
now I have this book.
And the prayer is that this book will be able to
go forth.
(32:45):
It has my name on it,
but it's not of me.
It is of God.
And to speak to people that I'll never know,
I'll never meet.
But that's okay.
And that's how God basically works,
that he takes where someone is in a particular time and
place and he can expand it.
(33:08):
I don't 100,
200 years from now,
who knows what will happen with the book.
But the message,
it's the message.
I hope that continues in whatever form that God can put
it in.
Absolutely. So what's on the roadmap?
What's coming next for you?
Continue on this journey.
(33:29):
I'm working on a blog.
I have a blog that's a companion to the book.
It's also called the Trouble with Jesus and you can find
it on my website.
Constance hastings.com
subscribe it comes out weekly.
It does usually have that voice of the doubter and skeptic
(33:50):
in it,
as well as dealing with a gospel passage and again,
that challenge.
But of course it's whereas it's related to,
like I said,
a companion to the book,
it goes in shorter spurts,
let's just say.
So someone could read it once a week for about 10
minutes and use that as their meditation.
(34:12):
So that that's my primary work beyond that and otherwise just
being where God would have me go.
Last month I was God talking about God blessing something.
My husband and I went to Tuscaloosa,
Alabama, to the Southern Christian Writers Conference and the book was
named the 2024 Notable Book Award.
(34:35):
Awesome. Yeah.
Like I said,
I've never would have been to Tuscaloosa,
Alabama, but I've got that sense of willingness that where God
calls, I'm ready to go.
I have the health and means do.
And with a message that has been given to me to
give to others.
So you can find out more about Constant Hastings in her
(34:57):
book and the blog over@constant Hastings.com
of course,
I'll have a link to that over in the show notes
as well.
Constance, anything else you'd like to share with the listener?
As we've talked about and I love the way Scott positioned
this is that when you have your doubts,
when you just don't know,
(35:19):
you you wonder what is God doing?
How can this be?
Whether it be in your personal life or as you look
into the discord that is out there nationally,
those voices,
whether it be something that God has brought upon you on
a global sense.
Do not despair.
(35:39):
Yes, there are times when we wonder,
we question,
we watch.
We hope that God will do something.
But again,
do not despair.
Because that love that we know of God is based in
grace. And grace is something that just permeates the whole kingdom
and is there for everyone.
(36:00):
So I hope and pray for each of you who hear
this. You're able to live into that and learn to bring
it to others in your own life.
Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship Podcast.
As a subscriber and listener,
(36:21):
we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen,
but act on what you've heard and find a way to
live your calling.
If you enjoyed this episode,
please please do a a favor.
Go over to inspired stewardship.com
iTunes Rate all one word iTunes Rate.
(36:47):
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and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so
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your feed.
Until next time,
invest your time,
time, your talent and your treasures.
Develop your influence and impact the world.
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