July 7, 2025 • 26 mins
In today’s #podcast episode, I interview Stewart Ervin. I ask Stewart how you can get unstuck as a business owner. Stewart also shares with you how important communication is to business. Stewart also talks about how you, your calling, and your business all need to align with your money.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Thanks for joining us on episode 1555 of the Inspired Stewardship
Podcast. I'm Stuart Irvin.
I challenge you to invest in yourself,
invest in others,
develop your influence and impact the world by using your time,
your talent and your treasure to live out your calling.
Having the ability to recognize that failure isn't final is key.
(00:22):
And one way to be inspired to do that is to
listen to this the Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend Scott
Material. I have one client who has a goal to give
away a million dollars a year.
And so when we do our annual planning,
(00:42):
obviously he's not in a position to do that today,
but we're starting to build that.
And so we've got an eight year plan to say in
eight years we want our business to be this level from
a revenue standpoint to produce this amount of profit to better
give a million dollars away.
Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Ste
Stewardship Podcast.
If you truly desire to become the person who God wants
(01:05):
you to be,
then you must learn to use your time,
your talent and your treasures for your true calling.
In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast,
you will learn to invest in yourself,
invest in others,
and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
(01:30):
In today's podcast episode,
I interview Stuart Irvin.
I asked Stuart how you can get unstuck as a business
owner. Stuart also shares with you how important communication is to
business. And Stuart also talks about how you,
your calling and your business all need to align with your
money. I have a great book that's been out for a
(01:50):
while now called Inspired Living.
Assemble the puzzle of your calling by mastering your time,
your talent and your treasures.
You can find out more about that book over@inspiredlivingbook.com
it'll take you to a page where there's information and you
can sign up to get some mailings about it as well
as purchase a copy there.
(02:12):
I'd love to see you get a copy and share with
me how it impacted your world.
Stuart Irvin,
the driving force behind Bracket Management,
a premier fractional CFO company.
Stuart is a seasoned expert in the manufacturing industry with an
impressive track record of helping businesses optimize their financial performance and
(02:32):
strategic planning.
Stuart's unique approach blends proven corporate results with a deep understanding
of the challenges faced by many small businesses.
At Bracket Management,
Stuart and his team provide invaluable services that help businesses achieve
clean financials,
efficient operations and strategic direction.
Their clients see remarkable results.
(02:52):
Welcome to the show,
Stuart. Thanks,
Scott. Appreciate you having me.
Absolutely. It's great to have you.
So I talked a little bit in the intro about some
of the work you do over at Bracket Management and how
you've gotten there.
But I also know that intros and bios and those sorts
of things are like the Instagram photos,
they just show the highlight reel,
(03:13):
they don't show the whole story.
So take us back in time a little bit and talk
about your journey and what brought you to the point where
this is the work that you're doing.
Yeah, it's really wild.
So I've really known ever since I was super young,
13, 14 years old that I wanted to go into business.
I just didn't necessarily know what routes,
but it's entrepreneurship,
corporate, small business,
(03:34):
on and so forth.
So my dad started his business when I was roughly around
14 and I started working in that business at that time
and he made me start at the very bottom and work
my way all the way to the top.
Now I had no clue how that would play into things
when I was in my late,
the mid late 20s,
mid 30s,
but it really built to where I am today.
So I learned every aspect of the business.
(03:56):
And so in my early 20s,
late 20s really,
I was focused on,
I tried everything.
I went corporate,
I went entrepreneurship,
and I really was somewhat struggling to still trying to figure
that out.
But from a financial aspect,
the corporate route was where I had to go.
So I had a failed business and again,
all of this was just learning and puzzle pieces that were
(04:17):
being put together.
So I,
in 2010,
I went back into corporate America per se.
And my job at that point was supply chain.
And so I knew enough about operations and supply chain and
so forth that I was the guy that was sent out
to turn these cuts,
these suppliers around if they weren't supporting the program.
And so I had to go in blindly and say,
(04:38):
okay, something's going on.
Your on time delivery is not supporting where we're at and
I've got to figure out what's up.
And so for four years I'd go in these companies and
I'd get them back on track and I get them back
on track.
And it really was things that I learned back when I
was in my late teens learning how to do that.
So one of the last major companies I turned around from
a supplier aspect actually hired me and said,
(05:00):
listen, I really like what you're doing,
I like the way you operate.
I need to sell my business and my business is really
messed up and I need to bring you in to help
me get everything like properly diversified,
get my Financials in line.
I need to step away and sell because we need to
grow it some,
and I need you to help me run it.
See, that was the thing for me.
That was a switch.
(05:20):
I went from,
like, really turning around just operations to entire businesses.
And so for the last 10 years,
I'm taking the tools that I learned in my late teens
and the experiences I have in my 20s,
and I've been turning companies around for the last 10 years,
and it's been so rewarding to do that,
and I just have a blast.
And so,
again, it was.
If I hadn't gone through,
I can just remember in my late teens thinking I was
(05:42):
so impatient,
why am I not getting quicker?
And then when my business failed and when I was in
my late 20s,
I was like,
well, now I see there was a better plan for me.
And again,
it put me where I am at today.
It just was a little bit later in the timeline than
I would have preferred.
But if it had happened earlier,
do you think you would have had the skills to actually
do it?
Absolutely not.
Yeah. Absolutely not.
(06:03):
Yeah. The reality is the cherry on top really came when
in 2019,
where I was.
I basically landed the largest P and L that I had
ever managed.
And that's where I really learned a lot of the strategy
stuff that I apply today.
So again,
before 2019,
it was fairly operations focused.
In 2019 through 2022,
23, time frame is where I really put all the strategy
(06:27):
stuff in place and really saw what it was like to
run a very large organization.
But I couldn't have gotten that gig had I not built
up to it.
How today,
when you think about the businesses that you work with because
it's small business,
covers a lot of ground from a solopreneur operating out of
their. Their back bedroom all the way through to several thousand
(06:49):
employees and millions of dollars in revenue.
So when you think about where you focus or where your
sweet spot is,
what does that business look like?
Yeah. So for me,
my current clients range anywhere from 1 to 30 million a
year. Actually,
one of the largest ones we're dealing with now,
we're looking at doing a $30 million acquisition.
So it'll take us up to 60 million.
So it really ranges.
(07:10):
For me,
I focus heavily in manufacturing.
That's not to say that what we do doesn't transfer over,
but I've got 25 years of manufacturing experience,
so it's fairly easy for me to walk into a business
and be like,
within a couple hours,
just walk through the process.
Okay, here's probably your issue and kind of dive into it.
So for me,
we really focus on 1 to 30 million is our kind
of our target.
(07:31):
Our goal is to get you to 50 million because at
50 million you probably can hire a full time fractional CFO.
But again,
manufacturing sector primarily is what we focus on.
So one of the things I like to highlight on the
show is the intersection of our life journey and what we
do with our faith journey and how that's developed us or
impacted the choices that we make.
(07:52):
Share a little bit about what that's looked like for you.
Yeah. So I was born and raised in a Christian home,
Christian parents,
went to a Christian school.
My whole life.
I've been active in church my entire life.
I really have never fallen out of that.
And that's not to say my faith journey hasn't wavered.
Right. There were times I questioned everything I'd ever been taught,
(08:12):
particularly when things were tough and there were really seasons.
And my wife is.
I'm really worried about where you are mentally and spiritually.
And I'm like,
yeah, I am too,
because my whole life I've believed this.
But I think that made me dive deeper into what I
knew and studied and researched and just really foundationally just really
reiterated what I felt like as a Christian.
And so for me,
(08:33):
on the business aspect,
again, as the businesses kind of things I've done is wavered
and been struggled.
It's been in and out.
But throughout the entire process,
I have seen the Lord's hand in everything I do.
And Ashley was reminded of this recently from my second son.
And he was like,
God's been good to you in your career.
And I was like,
yeah, I would agree.
(08:54):
Where's this coming from?
And so it was really the second company that I was
focused on turning around.
Things were not going well,
but I was so emotionally committed to that,
that company.
And I don't remember this,
but he reminded me of this.
And it is in fact true.
But he reminded me that one night I sat down,
I said,
lord, I'm never going to leave this particular company on my
(09:17):
own. If you want me to separate from it,
you're going to have to make it happen because I think
I'm too emotionally attached.
Very next day I was fired.
And if I'm no lie,
but that's pretty clear,
I was terminated.
So I was floored.
But also I somewhat knew that,
okay, I had just prayed that.
But what it did is I referenced earlier the role of
(09:40):
the largest P and l back in 2019.
I walked right out of that job that I had been
terminated from and right into the one that really pretty much
changed my professional life.
And I had forgotten that.
And then as this journey has progressed since 2019,
again, my son reminded me of that.
And so,
again, I look back,
my wife was just talking about this the other day.
(10:01):
She's. You always are very clear that you can see God
has woven himself into every move,
and I can just see how everything has built.
Even when I wasn't necessarily as committed to his path,
he was always there.
And it's clear when I look backwards,
but sometimes in the moment,
it's not there.
But as I've gotten older,
(10:21):
I recognize I'm more aware.
Okay. And I accept it.
And I know that this is God's will and God's plan
to just stick it out in.
In the end,
it'll work itself out.
Mm. So let's talk a little bit about those businesses that
call you in as a fractional cfo,
where you're stepping into them.
And you talked a little bit about the kind of business
you like to work with,
(10:41):
but what's the kind of problems or challenges they're facing that
might make you a good fit or somebody that can come
in and really help turn them around?
Yeah, pretty much.
The overarching problem is they have hit a ceiling in their
business. In many cases,
I've actually started going backwards.
Right. And so I can tell you time and time again,
(11:03):
I had a $20 million company that had gone back to
14. They called me.
There's another company that was at 80.
They had gone to 60,
and they called me.
So that's really the biggest driver.
They've fallen backwards.
So right in that line is many times these entrepreneurs have
hit a ceiling that they don't feel comfortable.
They're just like,
I don't know what else to do.
I'm lost.
I need someone who's been there and done that to just
(11:24):
walk alongside of me.
I have a sales and marketing coach,
and he's.
What you realize is you're their safety blanket.
You're just there to make them feel warm and fuzzy and
have someone to talk to.
And that's the reality,
is they just don't know what else to do.
So those really are the two,
the biggest areas.
Again, they've grown to a point falling backwards,
and they're starting to freak out and say,
okay, I need help.
Or they've reached a point that their comfort level is gone,
(11:45):
and they're like,
okay, I need to bring in someone to help me go
to the next level.
So when you think about that,
where is that coming from in the business?
What's the most common challenges or mistakes or issues that you
see that starts people down that road?
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
A lot of time,
again, they're small business.
A lot of times what has happened is the,
(12:05):
the, a lot of these guys I deal with are second
generation. But those that are not typically the,
the founder is the technical expert behind whatever they're doing,
right? It could be they're the guy who understands how to
make this widget better than anybody else.
They're the engineering brain that builds these systems,
so on and so forth.
And typically what happens is they run it for the lack
(12:26):
of better terms,
a little loose.
And mom and Poppy,
right, they just fairly loose.
And so there's no forward looking strategy.
It's just,
okay, how much cash do I have in the bank?
Okay, I feel comfortable with that.
How's my ar?
Okay, good.
We got money coming in.
All right,
let's just keep grinding.
And they really don't run their business with necessarily any discipline
or really intentioned.
(12:48):
And that's just going to catch up with you at some
point. And so a lot of times what we figure out
is I got to figure out first when they call me
in, do you really want to go there?
Do you really want to grow to 10,
20, 30 million or whatever that might be?
Because it's a whole different ball game,
a whole different set of disciplines.
Before this started,
you and I were talking about being busy,
right? And so I was just at a client over the
past two days who they're going through an audit to to
(13:09):
make them airspace worthy to make aerospace parts.
And we got to the end of it.
The owner looked at me and said,
man, I just don't know if it's worth it.
I said,
you're at a crossroads.
You have to make a decision.
Are you going to do the things it's going to take
to get there?
Are you okay with just staying small?
That's the decision you got to make.
So yeah,
staying small is necessarily bad.
It's just,
do you want to do that or not?
(13:30):
Because the kicker is if you want to stay small,
you just said,
you don't need me.
You've done well at that.
You don't need this.
And so that's really the biggest driver.
It gets to a point where the business overtakes the owner's
ability to manage it.
There's no forward looking,
there's no strategy,
there's no forecasting or Any managing with intent.
And then,
and that's really the biggest driver.
And I think so many folks,
(13:51):
I work a lot with businesses below the level that you're
working in terms of revenue.
So I've worked with a lot of guys that are just
starting. They've jumped ship,
they've got their thing starting.
They've maybe made a couple of hundred thousand,
250,000. They're trying to get to a million.
And usually at that point it's oh,
$1 million will solve all my problems.
And it's.
No, it really won't.
(14:13):
It's going to change them.
And, but a lot of times,
like you said,
they're technical minded.
They were good at fixing air conditioners or turning a wrench
on pipe and they've seen what happens in the business and
they're like,
I could do that.
Yeah. And yet there's a whole nother set of skills.
And then they get to your like you're saying go from
30 to 50.
It's a whole nother set of skills.
(14:35):
Yeah, you know,
it's Bracket.
We actually started bracket 2010 in as on the side.
And we really,
what we focused on was probably the same group that you're
looking at.
We were trying to take those solo guys who were starting
and we would say,
hey, let us do the boring stuff.
So we would do the marketing,
the bookkeeping,
all the hr,
all the business stuff.
And we would say,
you go be the best painter,
(14:56):
you can be the best party planner,
the best whatever.
And that's really where Bracket started.
And we kind of ran it part time for four or
five years.
Then we shelved it because again,
we recognized it was probably something better to offer.
But yeah,
Bracket started with the same group,
same clients again because we recognize that we had so many
people say,
I just want to go paint,
right? I just want to go remodel.
(15:17):
I don't want to do all this other crap.
And yeah,
that's where we really got the idea to start it.
And, and again,
that's the thing is if all you want to do is
turn a wrench or paint or whatever,
yeah, that's fine.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But just realize that there's a cap to that.
You're going to only get to a certain level and that's
as high as you can go because at some point your
time is finite.
You're everything else and you're going to,
(15:39):
you're going to run into that cap.
So when you think about the business structure,
especially by the time you're getting to that 30,
50 million revenue level and 100 million and all of that.
What role do you see in terms of for the leaders
in really understanding those other skills other than just the business
(15:59):
skills, looking at a P and L,
that kind of thing.
But the soft skills,
the communication,
the training,
the understanding people kind of side.
Yeah, so that's.
We really have six key things that we look at.
And when we go into a business,
we really call it the six key plays.
The very first play we run is we call it the
communication play.
And that communication is both internal and external.
(16:20):
And a lot of times these guys,
they really don't even think about that.
They don't even really think about how are you being perceived
in the marketplace.
They don't.
They, they may have a mission,
vision, they may really talk about their values,
but it's really not broadcasted internally or externally.
So what we go through is we say,
hey, you got to set this in stone,
you got to have value so your people internally know where
you're at,
you have a mission and vision so your people externally can
(16:43):
know where you're headed and what you're all about.
So we really drive that because if you're not communicating,
people's imagination will run wild and people's imaginations are wild.
And so we really focus very right out of the box
communication. What does that look like?
What does our meeting cadences look like?
What do we talk about in those meetings?
Because again,
you bring an outsider in,
(17:03):
people's imaginations are going to go wild,
particularly if someone like me is going to be at the
top. And so that is the very first thing we do.
And so we focus on that.
We. The second play we run is once we kind of
get the financials in order,
we really focus on a forecast,
we and start working on a plan of let's set a
target on the financials.
And the biggest thing we do is we set a plan,
(17:25):
we reforecast.
But what we do is we look and say how well
did we do against that forecast and what do we need
to do to change it.
So in those conversations,
I'm training the owner,
I'm training the other senior leaders to understand the ins and
outs of a P and L and what are the knobs
that need to be turned operationally,
so on and so forth.
Once we kind of get all that in line and again,
we talked about,
talked about it a second ago,
(17:46):
but we do a monthly business review where all the senior
leaders get together and we understand where are we at with
the business and what we need to do to change again,
now we're reviewing all the financials,
we're reviewing the how we,
how well are we communicating,
so on and so forth.
So you can see that's woven in everything we do.
There's another play that we run is the employee play where
there's a job description,
(18:06):
there's a KPI,
there's an org chart that's developed.
And so everyone knows if I need something,
this is who I go talk to.
If it's about finance,
I talk to this person.
Oh, by the way,
this is what I'm really supposed to do.
And this is what winning looks like.
So we're putting all those pieces together.
So again,
you have a very well ran machine that's very well communicated.
People know where they're going,
they know if they're winning or losing,
(18:27):
so on and so forth.
When you think about the financial piece of it,
all too often I've seen folks that the focus becomes so
much on the bottom line and or the top line.
A lot of times it's people only talk about the revenue
they make or they only talk about the profit at the
end they kind of lose track of all the stuff in
between the two.
What role do you see financials playing in how businesses execute
(18:51):
and achieve that bigger mission that they really are after?
Yeah, so I referenced it a second ago.
So we set an annual plan and not only do we
do an annual plan,
we do a three,
five and sometimes a ten year outlook.
And so what I attempt to do when I go into
these businesses,
I try to find out from the owner,
what is it that you really want?
What is utopia?
Is it that you want to grow this business and go
to the Bahamas?
(19:12):
Is it whatever the case would be.
I have one client who has a goal to give away
a million dollars a year.
And so when we do our annual planning,
obviously he's not in a position to do that today,
but we're starting to build that.
And so we've got an eight year plan to say in
eight years we want our business to be this level from
a revenue standpoint,
to produce this amount of profit to better give a million
dollars away.
(19:33):
And that's the goal that it plays.
And so it's like I work with these business owners,
I learned what they want to do personally so I can
help guide them on the financial planning and forge strategic execution
to make it happen.
To me,
the numbers tell the story.
That's it.
And so it's more than a P and L,
it's more than a balance sheet.
It's more than a cash flow statement.
And so many cases when I do a month in report
(19:57):
to the owners,
I am telling them a story and I'm just basically referencing
the P and L.
But if I didn't have that P and L to tell
the story,
I wouldn't have anything to talk about.
So it is the story for a finance guy to better
read that and better communicate that to the owner.
So I've got a few questions that I like to ask
all of my guests.
But before I go there and ask those,
(20:18):
is there anything else about the work you do with these
businesses that you think is really important for the listener to
hear? Yeah.
Again, a lot of times I get called in when people
are in trouble.
And I want people to understand that there's always an option,
there's always a way.
A lot of times you haven't figured it out,
but if you can,
(20:39):
if you reach out and try to figure out what I
need to do,
find an expert who can help you before you really just
close the doors.
There's been times that I walked in and people have just
been in a dire situation that within three months you're like,
oh my,
holy crap,
I'm so glad we did this.
And so the biggest thing I want people to realize is
there probably are other options out there besides you to just
do some research,
(20:59):
do your homework,
and see if there's someone out there who can come in
and help you.
Again. With the world today and the fractional movement becoming more
and more popular,
you can really tap into some very strong resources at a
fairly reasonable price to come and help you on a part
time basis.
And again,
a lot of these guys are very seasoned and they can
come in and pretty much make a huge impact fairly quickly
(21:21):
at a reasonable price.
So just don't give up.
Look for other options.
There are guys out there like me who can help and
just make it happen.
So my brand is inspired stewardship and I run things through
that lens of stewardship.
And yet I've discovered over the years that's one of those
words that means a lot of different things to a lot
of different people.
So for you,
when you hear the word stewardship,
what does that word mean to you?
(21:43):
Yeah, I recognize that everything we have really comes from God
and we're just really managers of that.
And so that's time,
money, health,
so on and so forth.
And just like if you were to borrow anything from anybody
else, you would take great care of it better than you
probably would your own stuff.
And so I recognize that I'm just a servant to that
and that I need to utilize the time,
(22:04):
gifts, talents,
money, whatnot that you that I have as if God has
given it to me and I just manage it well.
So this is my favorite question that I like to ask
everybody. Imagine for a moment that I could invent this magic
machine. And with this machine I was able to take you
from where you are today and transport you into the future,
maybe 150,
(22:25):
maybe 250 years.
And through the power of this machine,
you were able to look back and see your entire life,
see all of the connections,
all of the ripples,
all of the impacts you've left.
What impact do you hope you've left in the world?
Yeah. So when I rebranded Bracket and relaunched it,
I said I wanted to be the Dave Ramsey to small
businesses. Now I know he's got the entree leadership stuff,
(22:48):
but what he's done to personal finance and how he's helped
thousands and thousands of people become debt free and live a
whole different life,
I want to have that same impact on small businesses.
And that's my goal,
is to help as many small businesses as I can to
reach their full potential and their full benefits and levels that
they have desire to.
(23:08):
So what's on the roadmap?
What have you got on the agenda for the rest of
the year?
Yeah, so we're,
we're looking at a variety of things.
Again, Bracket,
like I said,
we've rebranded it,
we've been running,
I referenced that.
I have a sales and marketing coach and so we're changing
some things up,
kind of changing our offerings up a little bit to,
to be a better service.
We're getting a little more operational focus.
(23:29):
And so again my background is finance and operations and we
originally came out heavy in the finance side,
but we're looking at building out a business system because again,
we have somewhat of a playbook and it goes a little
bit beyond just the finance piece.
And so probably in the next few months you'll see a
relaunch of Somewhat of a Business Systems.
If you can think like the Great Game of Business or
(23:51):
Entree Leadership or even entrepreneurial operating system.
We're just doing some work on that and seeing if that's
going to roll out and make some changes.
So you can find out more about Stuart Irvin over@bracketmanagement.com
and that's management mgmt.
Of course I'll have a link to all of that over
in the show notes as well so you can find it
(24:12):
there. Stuart,
is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener?
The only thing I'd like to share is if you were
to go on our website and take a look.
We have a business assessment that kind of allows you to
see where your business falls.
And so we focus on strategy,
execution, financial positioning and operational execution.
And it's a smaller assessment.
(24:33):
It's about 30 questions,
takes you about five minutes,
but you get a detailed report back in regards to what
are you doing?
Well, areas of improvement.
And then again,
it allows us to start that dialogue if you need any
assistance in your business and can help.
But it's a pretty comprehensive view of where you stand as
a business.
Awesome. I'll put a link to that in the show notes
(24:54):
as well so folks can find it there.
And thank you so much.
Thank you,
Scott. Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship podcast.
As a subscriber and listener,
we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen,
(25:14):
but act on what you've heard and find a way to
live your calling.
If you enjoyed this episode,
please do us a favor.
Go over to inspired stewardship.com
iTunes Rate all one word iTunes Rate.
(25:34):
It'll take you through how to leave a rating and review
and how to make sure you're subscribed to the podcast so
that you can get every episode as it comes out in
your feed.
Until next time,
invest your time,
your talent and your treasures.
Develop your influence and impact the world.
Thanks for joining us on episode 1555 of the Inspired Stewardship
Podcast. I'm Stuart Irvin.
I challenge you to invest in yourself,
invest in others,
develop your influence and impact the world by using your time,
your talent and your treasure to live out your calling.
Having the ability to recognize that failure isn't final is key.
(00:22):
And one way to be inspired to do that is to
listen to this the Inspired Stewardship Podcast with my friend Scott
Material. I have one client who has a goal to give
away a million dollars a year.
And so when we do our annual planning,
(00:42):
obviously he's not in a position to do that today,
but we're starting to build that.
And so we've got an eight year plan to say in
eight years we want our business to be this level from
a revenue standpoint to produce this amount of profit to better
give a million dollars away.
Welcome and thank you for joining us on the Inspired Ste
Stewardship Podcast.
If you truly desire to become the person who God wants
(01:05):
you to be,
then you must learn to use your time,
your talent and your treasures for your true calling.
In the Inspired Stewardship Podcast,
you will learn to invest in yourself,
invest in others,
and develop your influence so that you can impact the world.
(01:30):
In today's podcast episode,
I interview Stuart Irvin.
I asked Stuart how you can get unstuck as a business
owner. Stuart also shares with you how important communication is to
business. And Stuart also talks about how you,
your calling and your business all need to align with your
money. I have a great book that's been out for a
(01:50):
while now called Inspired Living.
Assemble the puzzle of your calling by mastering your time,
your talent and your treasures.
You can find out more about that book over@inspiredlivingbook.com
it'll take you to a page where there's information and you
can sign up to get some mailings about it as well
as purchase a copy there.
(02:12):
I'd love to see you get a copy and share with
me how it impacted your world.
Stuart Irvin,
the driving force behind Bracket Management,
a premier fractional CFO company.
Stuart is a seasoned expert in the manufacturing industry with an
impressive track record of helping businesses optimize their financial performance and
(02:32):
strategic planning.
Stuart's unique approach blends proven corporate results with a deep understanding
of the challenges faced by many small businesses.
At Bracket Management,
Stuart and his team provide invaluable services that help businesses achieve
clean financials,
efficient operations and strategic direction.
Their clients see remarkable results.
(02:52):
Welcome to the show,
Stuart. Thanks,
Scott. Appreciate you having me.
Absolutely. It's great to have you.
So I talked a little bit in the intro about some
of the work you do over at Bracket Management and how
you've gotten there.
But I also know that intros and bios and those sorts
of things are like the Instagram photos,
they just show the highlight reel,
(03:13):
they don't show the whole story.
So take us back in time a little bit and talk
about your journey and what brought you to the point where
this is the work that you're doing.
Yeah, it's really wild.
So I've really known ever since I was super young,
13, 14 years old that I wanted to go into business.
I just didn't necessarily know what routes,
but it's entrepreneurship,
corporate, small business,
(03:34):
on and so forth.
So my dad started his business when I was roughly around
14 and I started working in that business at that time
and he made me start at the very bottom and work
my way all the way to the top.
Now I had no clue how that would play into things
when I was in my late,
the mid late 20s,
mid 30s,
but it really built to where I am today.
So I learned every aspect of the business.
(03:56):
And so in my early 20s,
late 20s really,
I was focused on,
I tried everything.
I went corporate,
I went entrepreneurship,
and I really was somewhat struggling to still trying to figure
that out.
But from a financial aspect,
the corporate route was where I had to go.
So I had a failed business and again,
all of this was just learning and puzzle pieces that were
(04:17):
being put together.
So I,
in 2010,
I went back into corporate America per se.
And my job at that point was supply chain.
And so I knew enough about operations and supply chain and
so forth that I was the guy that was sent out
to turn these cuts,
these suppliers around if they weren't supporting the program.
And so I had to go in blindly and say,
(04:38):
okay, something's going on.
Your on time delivery is not supporting where we're at and
I've got to figure out what's up.
And so for four years I'd go in these companies and
I'd get them back on track and I get them back
on track.
And it really was things that I learned back when I
was in my late teens learning how to do that.
So one of the last major companies I turned around from
a supplier aspect actually hired me and said,
(05:00):
listen, I really like what you're doing,
I like the way you operate.
I need to sell my business and my business is really
messed up and I need to bring you in to help
me get everything like properly diversified,
get my Financials in line.
I need to step away and sell because we need to
grow it some,
and I need you to help me run it.
See, that was the thing for me.
That was a switch.
(05:20):
I went from,
like, really turning around just operations to entire businesses.
And so for the last 10 years,
I'm taking the tools that I learned in my late teens
and the experiences I have in my 20s,
and I've been turning companies around for the last 10 years,
and it's been so rewarding to do that,
and I just have a blast.
And so,
again, it was.
If I hadn't gone through,
I can just remember in my late teens thinking I was
(05:42):
so impatient,
why am I not getting quicker?
And then when my business failed and when I was in
my late 20s,
I was like,
well, now I see there was a better plan for me.
And again,
it put me where I am at today.
It just was a little bit later in the timeline than
I would have preferred.
But if it had happened earlier,
do you think you would have had the skills to actually
do it?
Absolutely not.
Yeah. Absolutely not.
(06:03):
Yeah. The reality is the cherry on top really came when
in 2019,
where I was.
I basically landed the largest P and L that I had
ever managed.
And that's where I really learned a lot of the strategy
stuff that I apply today.
So again,
before 2019,
it was fairly operations focused.
In 2019 through 2022,
23, time frame is where I really put all the strategy
(06:27):
stuff in place and really saw what it was like to
run a very large organization.
But I couldn't have gotten that gig had I not built
up to it.
How today,
when you think about the businesses that you work with because
it's small business,
covers a lot of ground from a solopreneur operating out of
their. Their back bedroom all the way through to several thousand
(06:49):
employees and millions of dollars in revenue.
So when you think about where you focus or where your
sweet spot is,
what does that business look like?
Yeah. So for me,
my current clients range anywhere from 1 to 30 million a
year. Actually,
one of the largest ones we're dealing with now,
we're looking at doing a $30 million acquisition.
So it'll take us up to 60 million.
So it really ranges.
(07:10):
For me,
I focus heavily in manufacturing.
That's not to say that what we do doesn't transfer over,
but I've got 25 years of manufacturing experience,
so it's fairly easy for me to walk into a business
and be like,
within a couple hours,
just walk through the process.
Okay, here's probably your issue and kind of dive into it.
So for me,
we really focus on 1 to 30 million is our kind
of our target.
(07:31):
Our goal is to get you to 50 million because at
50 million you probably can hire a full time fractional CFO.
But again,
manufacturing sector primarily is what we focus on.
So one of the things I like to highlight on the
show is the intersection of our life journey and what we
do with our faith journey and how that's developed us or
impacted the choices that we make.
(07:52):
Share a little bit about what that's looked like for you.
Yeah. So I was born and raised in a Christian home,
Christian parents,
went to a Christian school.
My whole life.
I've been active in church my entire life.
I really have never fallen out of that.
And that's not to say my faith journey hasn't wavered.
Right. There were times I questioned everything I'd ever been taught,
(08:12):
particularly when things were tough and there were really seasons.
And my wife is.
I'm really worried about where you are mentally and spiritually.
And I'm like,
yeah, I am too,
because my whole life I've believed this.
But I think that made me dive deeper into what I
knew and studied and researched and just really foundationally just really
reiterated what I felt like as a Christian.
And so for me,
(08:33):
on the business aspect,
again, as the businesses kind of things I've done is wavered
and been struggled.
It's been in and out.
But throughout the entire process,
I have seen the Lord's hand in everything I do.
And Ashley was reminded of this recently from my second son.
And he was like,
God's been good to you in your career.
And I was like,
yeah, I would agree.
(08:54):
Where's this coming from?
And so it was really the second company that I was
focused on turning around.
Things were not going well,
but I was so emotionally committed to that,
that company.
And I don't remember this,
but he reminded me of this.
And it is in fact true.
But he reminded me that one night I sat down,
I said,
lord, I'm never going to leave this particular company on my
(09:17):
own. If you want me to separate from it,
you're going to have to make it happen because I think
I'm too emotionally attached.
Very next day I was fired.
And if I'm no lie,
but that's pretty clear,
I was terminated.
So I was floored.
But also I somewhat knew that,
okay, I had just prayed that.
But what it did is I referenced earlier the role of
(09:40):
the largest P and l back in 2019.
I walked right out of that job that I had been
terminated from and right into the one that really pretty much
changed my professional life.
And I had forgotten that.
And then as this journey has progressed since 2019,
again, my son reminded me of that.
And so,
again, I look back,
my wife was just talking about this the other day.
(10:01):
She's. You always are very clear that you can see God
has woven himself into every move,
and I can just see how everything has built.
Even when I wasn't necessarily as committed to his path,
he was always there.
And it's clear when I look backwards,
but sometimes in the moment,
it's not there.
But as I've gotten older,
(10:21):
I recognize I'm more aware.
Okay. And I accept it.
And I know that this is God's will and God's plan
to just stick it out in.
In the end,
it'll work itself out.
Mm. So let's talk a little bit about those businesses that
call you in as a fractional cfo,
where you're stepping into them.
And you talked a little bit about the kind of business
you like to work with,
(10:41):
but what's the kind of problems or challenges they're facing that
might make you a good fit or somebody that can come
in and really help turn them around?
Yeah, pretty much.
The overarching problem is they have hit a ceiling in their
business. In many cases,
I've actually started going backwards.
Right. And so I can tell you time and time again,
(11:03):
I had a $20 million company that had gone back to
14. They called me.
There's another company that was at 80.
They had gone to 60,
and they called me.
So that's really the biggest driver.
They've fallen backwards.
So right in that line is many times these entrepreneurs have
hit a ceiling that they don't feel comfortable.
They're just like,
I don't know what else to do.
I'm lost.
I need someone who's been there and done that to just
(11:24):
walk alongside of me.
I have a sales and marketing coach,
and he's.
What you realize is you're their safety blanket.
You're just there to make them feel warm and fuzzy and
have someone to talk to.
And that's the reality,
is they just don't know what else to do.
So those really are the two,
the biggest areas.
Again, they've grown to a point falling backwards,
and they're starting to freak out and say,
okay, I need help.
Or they've reached a point that their comfort level is gone,
(11:45):
and they're like,
okay, I need to bring in someone to help me go
to the next level.
So when you think about that,
where is that coming from in the business?
What's the most common challenges or mistakes or issues that you
see that starts people down that road?
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
A lot of time,
again, they're small business.
A lot of times what has happened is the,
(12:05):
the, a lot of these guys I deal with are second
generation. But those that are not typically the,
the founder is the technical expert behind whatever they're doing,
right? It could be they're the guy who understands how to
make this widget better than anybody else.
They're the engineering brain that builds these systems,
so on and so forth.
And typically what happens is they run it for the lack
(12:26):
of better terms,
a little loose.
And mom and Poppy,
right, they just fairly loose.
And so there's no forward looking strategy.
It's just,
okay, how much cash do I have in the bank?
Okay, I feel comfortable with that.
How's my ar?
Okay, good.
We got money coming in.
All right,
let's just keep grinding.
And they really don't run their business with necessarily any discipline
or really intentioned.
(12:48):
And that's just going to catch up with you at some
point. And so a lot of times what we figure out
is I got to figure out first when they call me
in, do you really want to go there?
Do you really want to grow to 10,
20, 30 million or whatever that might be?
Because it's a whole different ball game,
a whole different set of disciplines.
Before this started,
you and I were talking about being busy,
right? And so I was just at a client over the
past two days who they're going through an audit to to
(13:09):
make them airspace worthy to make aerospace parts.
And we got to the end of it.
The owner looked at me and said,
man, I just don't know if it's worth it.
I said,
you're at a crossroads.
You have to make a decision.
Are you going to do the things it's going to take
to get there?
Are you okay with just staying small?
That's the decision you got to make.
So yeah,
staying small is necessarily bad.
It's just,
do you want to do that or not?
(13:30):
Because the kicker is if you want to stay small,
you just said,
you don't need me.
You've done well at that.
You don't need this.
And so that's really the biggest driver.
It gets to a point where the business overtakes the owner's
ability to manage it.
There's no forward looking,
there's no strategy,
there's no forecasting or Any managing with intent.
And then,
and that's really the biggest driver.
And I think so many folks,
(13:51):
I work a lot with businesses below the level that you're
working in terms of revenue.
So I've worked with a lot of guys that are just
starting. They've jumped ship,
they've got their thing starting.
They've maybe made a couple of hundred thousand,
250,000. They're trying to get to a million.
And usually at that point it's oh,
$1 million will solve all my problems.
And it's.
No, it really won't.
(14:13):
It's going to change them.
And, but a lot of times,
like you said,
they're technical minded.
They were good at fixing air conditioners or turning a wrench
on pipe and they've seen what happens in the business and
they're like,
I could do that.
Yeah. And yet there's a whole nother set of skills.
And then they get to your like you're saying go from
30 to 50.
It's a whole nother set of skills.
(14:35):
Yeah, you know,
it's Bracket.
We actually started bracket 2010 in as on the side.
And we really,
what we focused on was probably the same group that you're
looking at.
We were trying to take those solo guys who were starting
and we would say,
hey, let us do the boring stuff.
So we would do the marketing,
the bookkeeping,
all the hr,
all the business stuff.
And we would say,
you go be the best painter,
(14:56):
you can be the best party planner,
the best whatever.
And that's really where Bracket started.
And we kind of ran it part time for four or
five years.
Then we shelved it because again,
we recognized it was probably something better to offer.
But yeah,
Bracket started with the same group,
same clients again because we recognize that we had so many
people say,
I just want to go paint,
right? I just want to go remodel.
(15:17):
I don't want to do all this other crap.
And yeah,
that's where we really got the idea to start it.
And, and again,
that's the thing is if all you want to do is
turn a wrench or paint or whatever,
yeah, that's fine.
There's nothing wrong with that.
But just realize that there's a cap to that.
You're going to only get to a certain level and that's
as high as you can go because at some point your
time is finite.
You're everything else and you're going to,
(15:39):
you're going to run into that cap.
So when you think about the business structure,
especially by the time you're getting to that 30,
50 million revenue level and 100 million and all of that.
What role do you see in terms of for the leaders
in really understanding those other skills other than just the business
(15:59):
skills, looking at a P and L,
that kind of thing.
But the soft skills,
the communication,
the training,
the understanding people kind of side.
Yeah, so that's.
We really have six key things that we look at.
And when we go into a business,
we really call it the six key plays.
The very first play we run is we call it the
communication play.
And that communication is both internal and external.
(16:20):
And a lot of times these guys,
they really don't even think about that.
They don't even really think about how are you being perceived
in the marketplace.
They don't.
They, they may have a mission,
vision, they may really talk about their values,
but it's really not broadcasted internally or externally.
So what we go through is we say,
hey, you got to set this in stone,
you got to have value so your people internally know where
you're at,
you have a mission and vision so your people externally can
(16:43):
know where you're headed and what you're all about.
So we really drive that because if you're not communicating,
people's imagination will run wild and people's imaginations are wild.
And so we really focus very right out of the box
communication. What does that look like?
What does our meeting cadences look like?
What do we talk about in those meetings?
Because again,
you bring an outsider in,
(17:03):
people's imaginations are going to go wild,
particularly if someone like me is going to be at the
top. And so that is the very first thing we do.
And so we focus on that.
We. The second play we run is once we kind of
get the financials in order,
we really focus on a forecast,
we and start working on a plan of let's set a
target on the financials.
And the biggest thing we do is we set a plan,
(17:25):
we reforecast.
But what we do is we look and say how well
did we do against that forecast and what do we need
to do to change it.
So in those conversations,
I'm training the owner,
I'm training the other senior leaders to understand the ins and
outs of a P and L and what are the knobs
that need to be turned operationally,
so on and so forth.
Once we kind of get all that in line and again,
we talked about,
talked about it a second ago,
(17:46):
but we do a monthly business review where all the senior
leaders get together and we understand where are we at with
the business and what we need to do to change again,
now we're reviewing all the financials,
we're reviewing the how we,
how well are we communicating,
so on and so forth.
So you can see that's woven in everything we do.
There's another play that we run is the employee play where
there's a job description,
(18:06):
there's a KPI,
there's an org chart that's developed.
And so everyone knows if I need something,
this is who I go talk to.
If it's about finance,
I talk to this person.
Oh, by the way,
this is what I'm really supposed to do.
And this is what winning looks like.
So we're putting all those pieces together.
So again,
you have a very well ran machine that's very well communicated.
People know where they're going,
they know if they're winning or losing,
(18:27):
so on and so forth.
When you think about the financial piece of it,
all too often I've seen folks that the focus becomes so
much on the bottom line and or the top line.
A lot of times it's people only talk about the revenue
they make or they only talk about the profit at the
end they kind of lose track of all the stuff in
between the two.
What role do you see financials playing in how businesses execute
(18:51):
and achieve that bigger mission that they really are after?
Yeah, so I referenced it a second ago.
So we set an annual plan and not only do we
do an annual plan,
we do a three,
five and sometimes a ten year outlook.
And so what I attempt to do when I go into
these businesses,
I try to find out from the owner,
what is it that you really want?
What is utopia?
Is it that you want to grow this business and go
to the Bahamas?
(19:12):
Is it whatever the case would be.
I have one client who has a goal to give away
a million dollars a year.
And so when we do our annual planning,
obviously he's not in a position to do that today,
but we're starting to build that.
And so we've got an eight year plan to say in
eight years we want our business to be this level from
a revenue standpoint,
to produce this amount of profit to better give a million
dollars away.
(19:33):
And that's the goal that it plays.
And so it's like I work with these business owners,
I learned what they want to do personally so I can
help guide them on the financial planning and forge strategic execution
to make it happen.
To me,
the numbers tell the story.
That's it.
And so it's more than a P and L,
it's more than a balance sheet.
It's more than a cash flow statement.
And so many cases when I do a month in report
(19:57):
to the owners,
I am telling them a story and I'm just basically referencing
the P and L.
But if I didn't have that P and L to tell
the story,
I wouldn't have anything to talk about.
So it is the story for a finance guy to better
read that and better communicate that to the owner.
So I've got a few questions that I like to ask
all of my guests.
But before I go there and ask those,
(20:18):
is there anything else about the work you do with these
businesses that you think is really important for the listener to
hear? Yeah.
Again, a lot of times I get called in when people
are in trouble.
And I want people to understand that there's always an option,
there's always a way.
A lot of times you haven't figured it out,
but if you can,
(20:39):
if you reach out and try to figure out what I
need to do,
find an expert who can help you before you really just
close the doors.
There's been times that I walked in and people have just
been in a dire situation that within three months you're like,
oh my,
holy crap,
I'm so glad we did this.
And so the biggest thing I want people to realize is
there probably are other options out there besides you to just
do some research,
(20:59):
do your homework,
and see if there's someone out there who can come in
and help you.
Again. With the world today and the fractional movement becoming more
and more popular,
you can really tap into some very strong resources at a
fairly reasonable price to come and help you on a part
time basis.
And again,
a lot of these guys are very seasoned and they can
come in and pretty much make a huge impact fairly quickly
(21:21):
at a reasonable price.
So just don't give up.
Look for other options.
There are guys out there like me who can help and
just make it happen.
So my brand is inspired stewardship and I run things through
that lens of stewardship.
And yet I've discovered over the years that's one of those
words that means a lot of different things to a lot
of different people.
So for you,
when you hear the word stewardship,
what does that word mean to you?
(21:43):
Yeah, I recognize that everything we have really comes from God
and we're just really managers of that.
And so that's time,
money, health,
so on and so forth.
And just like if you were to borrow anything from anybody
else, you would take great care of it better than you
probably would your own stuff.
And so I recognize that I'm just a servant to that
and that I need to utilize the time,
(22:04):
gifts, talents,
money, whatnot that you that I have as if God has
given it to me and I just manage it well.
So this is my favorite question that I like to ask
everybody. Imagine for a moment that I could invent this magic
machine. And with this machine I was able to take you
from where you are today and transport you into the future,
maybe 150,
(22:25):
maybe 250 years.
And through the power of this machine,
you were able to look back and see your entire life,
see all of the connections,
all of the ripples,
all of the impacts you've left.
What impact do you hope you've left in the world?
Yeah. So when I rebranded Bracket and relaunched it,
I said I wanted to be the Dave Ramsey to small
businesses. Now I know he's got the entree leadership stuff,
(22:48):
but what he's done to personal finance and how he's helped
thousands and thousands of people become debt free and live a
whole different life,
I want to have that same impact on small businesses.
And that's my goal,
is to help as many small businesses as I can to
reach their full potential and their full benefits and levels that
they have desire to.
(23:08):
So what's on the roadmap?
What have you got on the agenda for the rest of
the year?
Yeah, so we're,
we're looking at a variety of things.
Again, Bracket,
like I said,
we've rebranded it,
we've been running,
I referenced that.
I have a sales and marketing coach and so we're changing
some things up,
kind of changing our offerings up a little bit to,
to be a better service.
We're getting a little more operational focus.
(23:29):
And so again my background is finance and operations and we
originally came out heavy in the finance side,
but we're looking at building out a business system because again,
we have somewhat of a playbook and it goes a little
bit beyond just the finance piece.
And so probably in the next few months you'll see a
relaunch of Somewhat of a Business Systems.
If you can think like the Great Game of Business or
(23:51):
Entree Leadership or even entrepreneurial operating system.
We're just doing some work on that and seeing if that's
going to roll out and make some changes.
So you can find out more about Stuart Irvin over@bracketmanagement.com
and that's management mgmt.
Of course I'll have a link to all of that over
in the show notes as well so you can find it
(24:12):
there. Stuart,
is there anything else you'd like to share with the listener?
The only thing I'd like to share is if you were
to go on our website and take a look.
We have a business assessment that kind of allows you to
see where your business falls.
And so we focus on strategy,
execution, financial positioning and operational execution.
And it's a smaller assessment.
(24:33):
It's about 30 questions,
takes you about five minutes,
but you get a detailed report back in regards to what
are you doing?
Well, areas of improvement.
And then again,
it allows us to start that dialogue if you need any
assistance in your business and can help.
But it's a pretty comprehensive view of where you stand as
a business.
Awesome. I'll put a link to that in the show notes
(24:54):
as well so folks can find it there.
And thank you so much.
Thank you,
Scott. Thanks so much for listening to the Inspired Stewardship podcast.
As a subscriber and listener,
we challenge you to not just sit back and passively listen,
(25:14):
but act on what you've heard and find a way to
live your calling.
If you enjoyed this episode,
please do us a favor.
Go over to inspired stewardship.com
iTunes Rate all one word iTunes Rate.
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