iNTO THE FRAY 500: Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains

Mark Muncy and Erika Lance join me to discuss their own Eerie Travels through the area known as the Smokies, featured in their upcoming book, The Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains.

Pre-order The Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains here - https://bit.ly/4kgXyBE

You can find all of Marks' books on Amazon- https://amzn.to/4j08mmA

And listen to Mark and Erika's podcast- Eerie Travels wherever you get your podcasts, to include of course- Apple Podcasts- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/eerie-travels/id1669145793

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The infinite complaces people went to and pro fears about
their little affairs, serene in the assurance of their dominion
over this small binning fragment of solar driftwood, which, by
chance or design, Man has inherited out of the dark
mystery of time and face.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hey, Shannon, it is Randy. I'm just calling to congratulate
you on five hundred episodes. Five freaking hundred episodes. That
is amazing. You are amazing. You are one of my
favorite podcasters of all time. You're the first person I
ever signed up for a Patreon four U f and rock.

(01:25):
As far as some of my favorite episodes of all time,
I can't narrow it down to just one, but you've
got the classic. You've got Pam in episode one oh three,
The Fay. That is the first time I ever paid
attention to the Fay of my life, and I've loved
it ever since. One dog Man on Temple Road, the Judge,
You're running down the running down the side of the cornfield.
First time I ever paid attention to the dog Man. Now,

(01:47):
I came your way for Sasquatch, so I already loved
them before this. By episode three hundred, Sasquatch Reclusive the
Olympics was just mind blowing. The recordings, the evidence, the conversation,
the Sasquatch calling the dogs on audio. I can't tell
you how much I love that episode. And if we
want to go with something more recent, since I've found

(02:09):
my way wandering into the woo over these last five years,
I've been listening to you four fifty nine fourst people
of the Moggian Rim. All that you do is fantastic.
You're amazing. You touch lives every day. You should be so, so,
so damn proud of yourself, even outside of just one
off episodes, anything with John Olsen, Mark and Carey Munsey,

(02:32):
uh Sam's Giant bug stories early on. Hell, you even
introduced me to the Hadels. So yeah, congratulations you Flip
and rock and I can't wait to see what happens
over the next five hundred episodes.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
This is Roy Daniel from episodes two thirty three and
two thirty four. I'm not going to pick a favorite episode.
I have listened to every single episode so far. Shannon
has not best to beat. Everyone is at least interesting
and engaging. It's been an interesting six years for me

(03:05):
since I started listening ten years of content to listen to.
It's a great podcast and a great community built alongside
of it. Thank you, Shanna.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
This is Shauna from episodes three sixty eight and three
sixty nine, Ancient Powerful Parts one and two, and episode
four thirty three, The Night Owls. Since I love so
many episodes and can't make up my mind, I'll have
to speak generally that my favorites are those about Bigfoot,
as well as Appalachian and Kentucky weirdness, and any of
the episodes from my teeps over on the itf Patreon.

(03:40):
Getting to know them has made the listening experience even better.

Speaker 5 (03:44):
Hotti, y'all, it's Troy from Texas by way of Florida,
or as Shannon likes to call me affectionately, Tony. I've
been listening to this lady since Jesus was a corporal.
It's been one fantastic ride, and I just want to say,
dear Heart, congratulations on your five hundredth episode. That's real
top shelf right there. Going back, I would have to

(04:07):
say my favorite episodes or with the monthies with the
Eerie Florida crew, there're seven hundred and twenty four episodes
talking about their books and fantastic books about the Eerie
Florida and creepy Florida and talking about things like the
Skunk Cat down South and all over, and the Barton Bugger,
and the gnomes of Bach Tower and even Old Hitler

(04:29):
off there off the coast. Y'all give a listen. Quite
sure you'll enjoy it almost as much as I did.
Y'all have a happy Hey.

Speaker 6 (04:38):
So for my favorite end of the Fray show, I
guess I got that right. It would have to be
when Shannon first started doing podcasts and interviews back in
the Sasquatch Chronicles days. Privileged to know Shannon for ten years.
If I was to say if I had a favorite show,
it would be with John and Sarah Brown and Shannon.

(04:59):
Very proud of you. I'm glad you've gone this far.
It's been a wonderful, uh wonderful journey watching you grow
with into the Fray. You take care and have a
good day.

Speaker 7 (05:09):
Hello, Shannon, this is Jake Drussel from its episodes two
eighty six and four twenty two, a little sort of
Hubert Heights Part one and two. I'm just calling to
wish you a huge congratulations on five hundred episodes and
hoping for five hundred more. My favorite episode is episode
one oh three, The Fay with Tam. I have listened

(05:31):
to this episode at least four or five times, and
I've just re listened to it before I called in again.
It hits on so many things that we hear that
we've even discussed, like even to promote viewers guides and
all these different things, and it's absolutely the most fascinating
episode to me. Completely shifted a lot of the ways

(05:53):
that I look at things and even my interests in
parts of the paranormal that I wasn't interested in before. Again, congratulations,
and here's the five hundred more.

Speaker 8 (06:03):
Hi, Shannon, this is David. I'm not sure which episode
is my favorite. It could be the one of the
first two Robert episodes, or the hat Man trilogy, or
even the two that had the officers in Georgia that
saw the dog Man. I'll give you the episode that
I decided to become a Patreon member, and that was

(06:26):
episode one seventy four, The Ringing of the Bells. During
John telling us about his encounters with the aliens, he
said he only had about ten seconds of memories each time,
but he had a lot of details within those short memories.
The one that's always stuck out was a little badge,
the one alien was wearing, and it was made up

(06:47):
a bunch of triangles, and how much detail went into that.
We also seen where we had a lot of the
classic alien stories where they just couldn't quite get everything right,
such as wearing clothes that were decades old or fishing
with the gun. For once, we see that with John,

(07:07):
that his dad actually believed him. We don't see that
with parents too often. They always have an excuse of
what we've seen or what we've encountered. Only did his
dad believe him to some degree. He went out and
investigated and ended up burning the barn down. As far
as these gray aliens are concerned, it appears they were

(07:28):
very manipulative to the children and lied or twisted the
truth to get the kids to do what they wanted.
I'm not sure if that is an aliens that we
want to work with. John seemed quite hesitant at times
to continue to tell parts of the story, almost if
we wouldn't believe him, But you were able to convince
him to tell the story and made him feel comfortable

(07:51):
about telling his story. No how, no matter how far
fetched it seemed. And that is something that's been one
of the reasons that I've continued to listen listen to
your episodes is because you make people feel that way,
and that's a very difficult thing to do. Overall last year,
i'd like to congratulate you on five hundred episodes. I

(08:12):
am very interested on how the next five hundred episodes
will enlighten us. Take care.

Speaker 9 (08:18):
Hello, Shannon, this is Vitobacilly in Buffalo, New York. Happy
Mother's Day. I wanted to let you know my favorite
episode was episode three seventeen, Bigfoot of Seagull Pa. I
was born and raised in Pennsylvania, and when I discovered
your podcast shortly before I became a Patreon member, I
started trolling it for anything about Bigfoot in Pennsylvania near

(08:42):
where I lived, to compare it to what my encounter
was and when I happened on this particular episode, I
was listening to it early in the morning, well before
sun up, and I noticed something odd was going on
with my husky Nova. She started crying and she was
going out in the door, and every time she came
back to the door, she was bringing in one of

(09:03):
her toys when they were all in after about half
an hour, I just kept listening to the podcast, really
enjoying it, listening to Travis's account, and Nova fell asleep
on my feet halfway maybe through the middle of the podcast.
I had the crap scared out of me. I'm listening
to the podcast l laan Edge. Some things start falling

(09:25):
off of my table in my work area near the
back door. Nova starts barking. I hear this loud noise
and the entire house shook. Then I heard this noise
that sounded like a freight train. Of course, I panicked completely,
and I'm thinking slaps of the cabin. Now I live

(09:45):
at the very edge of the city of Buffalo, but
certainly no place Sasquatch would be. After about thirty seconds
and the house stopped shaking, I realized that we were
having an earthquake. Rand to the TV. Yes, that was it.
The strongest earthquake Buffalo had ever seen since nineteen seventy.
And we do actually sit on a fault line that

(10:06):
is rather calm and doesn't not very active. But I
just this has always been my favorite episode because I
had the crap scared out of me. And then I
just laughed my ass off when I realized, you know,
what an idiot I had been. So I hope if
you hear those that you got to kick out of
the story. But I love all of the stuff, but

(10:29):
I'm always interested in Bigfoot in Pennsylvania. I want to
thank you for letting me share my stories.

Speaker 10 (10:36):
Hey, Shannon, it's Nicole Morock. Congratulations on episode five hundred.
I have so much to aspire to when I listen
to you. You have done so much good work for people,
providing a platform to discuss all the weirdness that we
love so much. And I just wanted to call in

(10:59):
and let you know that my favorite episode so far
is episode three ninety two The Troll. Tina and Laura
of Freewheel Healing in Saint George, Utah discussed angels with
blue eyes that smell like chocolate chip cookies meeting the
spirit of Christmas in the troll at Walmart. And let

(11:20):
me tell you, the two favorite things in that episode
were the angels with blue eyes and the troll at Walmart.
And as they were describing what happened with the troll
at Walmart, I could totally see the whole thing play
out in my head, and I was both disturbed and
laughing at the same time. I have had moments where

(11:42):
I've looked at somebody and felt like they were not
what they appeared to be, But I have never had
the experience of seeing a troll. And where else but Walmart?
Where else would you see a troll? Anyway, that is
my favorite. I hope you have five hundred more left
in you or more. This is such a great podcast.

(12:02):
You are definitely one of my favorite podcasters, and best
of luck to you.

Speaker 11 (12:08):
Hi, Shannon, It's Debbie here of the Elemental Somerset and
all the fay. I would just like to congratulate you
on your five hundred podcast and add some of my
favorites and if anybody would like to go and listen
to them, they are two seven five Elkins Creek, three hundred,

(12:29):
Sasquatch Recluse of the Olympics, four three zero, Saskuatch of
Alaska four three three and four three four Married with Aliens,
and any of the Steve Stockton and Cisco Murdoch Halloween specials.
They are so much fun and filled with such heart.

(12:49):
I have no doubt I'll be speaking to you again soon,
but congratulations.

Speaker 12 (12:55):
Hello, this is Denise. I picked four ninety five County Bigfoot.
The reason why I picked this one is because of
an experience I had In June twenty twenty four. A
friend and I went to a marsh that's near my house.
It's also a Native American baraground. As we're walking through,

(13:17):
I have the spirit Box on on my phone and
I'm trying to talk to the spirits of the Native
Americans there. Shortly after we started walking down these planks
going through the marsh, I hear what sounds like a gunshot.
I asked my friend, did you hear that? And she's like, no,
I didn't hear that, and we keep on walking. We

(13:38):
get through few voices through the spirit box, but you
can't really understand what they're saying. So we turn a
corner maybe eight minutes into walking, and we hear this
grunt growl. Scared the f out of me. I asked
my friend to help me get the taser out because

(14:00):
because I don't trust people, and at the same time,
my phone went black. So we get the taser out.
I'm trying to get my phone up and running to videotape.
What's going to kill us because I I honestly thought
we were going to die that day. As I finally
get the video up, I turn around and my friend
is walking towards the noise, the growl, and when I

(14:21):
finally got up to her, I'm like, what the f
are you doing?

Speaker 2 (14:27):
And she said that she.

Speaker 12 (14:28):
Thought whatever it was would be more scared of us
than we would of it.

Speaker 8 (14:35):
Now.

Speaker 12 (14:35):
The reason why I chose four ninety five Bear County
bigfoot is because he said that they would live in
rural areas where people are close by, Because I never
understood why a bigfoot would be living in that marsh
because there's farmland around and houses all around. So that

(14:56):
made me understand that yes, because there's a water source
and there's obviously food there because I'm sure deer run
around in that marsh too. And the other reason is
because he said that he would go and if he
heard a noise, he would go Google to see what
animal it could be. And I did the same thing

(15:17):
when I got home. I googled, like, could it be
a coyote, Could it be a raccoon? Could it be
a wild pig out there? Anything to figure out what
this sound was. I finally like you know, I'm just
gonna try gorilla, And it was exact match to the
sound that I heard was a gorilla. So that's why

(15:39):
I liked this story, because it helped me understand that
they could be there and that whatever it was sounded
like an anger gorilla. I know there's not a gorilla
in that swamp or that marsh, but it was terrifying.

Speaker 13 (15:54):
Thank you on this episode, the five hundredth episode. Actually,
I am pleased to welcome on Mark Muncie and Erica Lance.
They podcast together and have begun what I am hoping
is a long running book series, and we are here

(16:16):
to cover their brand new book that is coming out
called The Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains and it
is of course illustrated by the wonderful and talented Carrie Schultz.
Now their podcast is Eerie Travels, so this book flows
right along that river. I know that you guys know
Mark pretty well. And Mark, I went in to my

(16:40):
website and I thought, well, write down and mention all
of the episodes that you've been on. But I thought,
you know what, that'll take twenty five minutes, because this
is your eighteenth official ITF episode. Now that does not
include Patreon episodes and the call in episodes.

Speaker 14 (16:56):
So there are more with you in there.

Speaker 13 (16:59):
So we have a lot of Mark Munsey and we
have more Mark Muncy, which happens to be the five
hundredth episode. I think that is actually pretty wonderful and
I am happy to have you and Erica welcome on
for your first episode. What I hope is the first
of many with these with the books coming out, and
I wanted to say really quickly before I finally shut

(17:19):
my mouth and let them introduce themselves, is that we
are going to do three episodes alone on this book.
So if that's not a hint as to the fact
that there is a lot of information in this book alone,
if we can do three episodes and there's still plenty
for you guys to consume, just take that in.

Speaker 15 (17:38):
Okay.

Speaker 14 (17:39):
So Mark Erica, well come on.

Speaker 16 (17:43):
Thank you, thank you for having me. I'm excited that
I get to be a part of the five hundredth episode.
I love that. That's so cool.

Speaker 14 (17:50):
Thank you, thank you so much.

Speaker 13 (17:52):
I'm it's gone in a blank unbelievably ten years in September,
but five hundred is coming up in two days Thursday
when this comes out, So finally, Well, Mark.

Speaker 17 (18:03):
And nuts it is. I think I was on one
of your early ones. But man, I don't think I
was that early with it. But I think I was
under one hundred when I first started.

Speaker 14 (18:13):
I think it was like eighty one. Maybe I'd have
to look that up. I should have actually lived there.

Speaker 13 (18:18):
Yeah, it was pretty early on Mark, considering all the episodes.
So welcome back on pretty fitting that you're here for
five hundred if you ask me, there's gonna be a
lot of very happy folks out there. And Okay, so
I would like you guys to go ahead and just
talk a little bit about yourselves, how you found each other,
your podcast, all of that kind of thing, and what

(18:38):
are the plans for these these books. I hope there's
more than just the one book.

Speaker 16 (18:43):
Right, Oh, there absolutely is going to be more than
the one book. So since Mark has been on here
a lot, i'll jump in. My name is Erica Lance.
I'm a horror writer, and so I will say that
me and Mark have now discs us both of our histories,
and we almost passed across paths about five million times

(19:07):
before we finally did at Spooky Empire and we met,
which is a convention. So we met at a convention
and we know literally all the same people throughout our lives,
which was really funny that we never met before then.
But Mark being a storyteller and me being a storyteller,

(19:28):
I had for years tried to get him to do
a podcast, and I couldn't figure out why he didn't
do it until it finally came out basically that he
wanted a co host, so I volunteered his tribute or
lost to bet, it depends on how you look at it.
So I joined Mark to be the co host of
Eerie Travels and we're into our second year of doing it,

(19:50):
which has been amazing and fun. Mark.

Speaker 17 (19:55):
Yeah, Well, I'm for those who don't know me, I
am the Mark Munsei, the author of Eerie Florida, Freaky Florida,
and Eerie Appalachia, amongst others. I like to consider myself
a paranormal journalist. I'm not a big foot hunter, ghost hunter,
UFO hunter, but I go out with bigfoot hunters, UFO
hunters and ghost hunters and get their stories, get their

(20:15):
information and doing all the research and all that digging
into historical societies and museums, and I've stumbled on quite
a few things that way, so it's been fun. I've
been on Shannon's show quite a bit. I've been a
fan of Shannon's from the beginning, so I'm happy to
be back. It's just an honor. And like said Erica said,

(20:37):
I've been on over a thousand podcasts and then finally
she twisted my arm and got me into doing my
own and we've done about two hundred episodes, which is crazy.

Speaker 13 (20:48):
I will agree, Mark, it is about time, So I'm
happy that Erica was finally the one that got you
into it.

Speaker 14 (20:54):
It was long overdue.

Speaker 17 (20:58):
Yeah, we've been doing this while now and we've had
some amazing guests, but we also do our own little
deep dives on stuff like that without guests, and then
we get listener tales like your call ins. But we
get so many that we've we had to catch up.
What how many do we do in a row?

Speaker 16 (21:17):
We did some episodes in a row between questions and
tales because we were the holidays. Everybody came up with
scary stuff to tell us over the.

Speaker 17 (21:26):
Holidays with nuts. Yeah, but we love it. We deal
with everything from ghosts, UFOs, Bigfoot, missing time, glitches, and
the matrix you call it, we've got it all.

Speaker 16 (21:37):
So yeah, and the book series, because you asked about that.
So the Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains is the
first in the series. Right now, we are knee deep
in the Dark Heart of the Apple Latches, which is
going to be book two. So we intend on doing.
We planned out I think like eight of these so far.

(21:59):
So we're going around and finding all of the myths, monsters, legends, ghosts,
and UFOs in these areas. And they're very neat because
you can actually take the travel through the book, and
we intend it that way so that you can literally
grab the book, start where we started and follow a trip.

Speaker 13 (22:20):
Something else that I noticed is, and I love this
because when you're out and you're traveling, let's face it,
who doesn't like to eat?

Speaker 14 (22:29):
I love to eat. Everyone else loves to eat. So
throughout the Dark Side.

Speaker 13 (22:33):
Of the Smoky Mountains, and I'm sure this will be
a vein that goes through all of the books, there
is little little half page or full page little blips
on there. They're called Erica's Eats and Erica's sleeps, and
a lot of them are quirky places or you know,
they've got unique menus or they're haunted probably themselves, right,

(22:56):
And I thought maybe, Eric, if you felt like it,
maybe one per episode, we could, you know, an honorable
mention that sticks out to you, doesn't have maybe anything
to do with the ones that I've chosen for that
particular episode, but maybe you could give a special shout
out to a cool place to stay or a cool
place to eat once per episode because I like that

(23:16):
part of the book.

Speaker 16 (23:18):
I'd love that, And I love food and coffee and whiskey.

Speaker 14 (23:24):
These amen I like you, Erica, Yes.

Speaker 16 (23:29):
So I love to find because I feel like, you know,
doing all these adventures, you need to find all the
absolutely wonderful places to go, eat and find. You know,
sometimes I need a couple of shots before I go
into the next place with Mark, because, as any listeners
to our podcast, no, I will nope out of most

(23:52):
situations that Mark's like, yeah, let's do this, Yeah, and
the answer is nope, nope. But some times, if I
get a couple of shots of whiskey and me, I'm
much more malleable to go into the book.

Speaker 13 (24:07):
Mark's like pulling it out of the waistband Like okay, Eric,
good time to go in.

Speaker 14 (24:11):
Take a couple of SIPs.

Speaker 17 (24:13):
Take your doctor, Pepper, It's fine, take your medicine.

Speaker 14 (24:17):
Close your eyes to take your medicine. Let's go exactly
pretty much.

Speaker 16 (24:22):
So I would love to. I'll definitely highlight every episode
of Place Excellent or Sleep, and some of them are haunted.
So you know, Sleep's negotiable depending on how you look
at it.

Speaker 13 (24:33):
Yeah, you just be like, good luck, it's a beautiful room.
Good luck on the sleep, have fun.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (24:39):
All right, So now I realize this is quite self
explanatory considering the title of the book, but I would
like to go ahead and if you guys could want to,
you explain exactly where do we travel in this book.
It doesn't have to be every single location, just what's
the net cover?

Speaker 17 (24:55):
Well we wanted When I was doing Erie Appalachia for
History Press, I did the whole We did the whole
Appalachian Trail from Alabama all the way up to Quebec,
which Joe Bob Briggs said, you're really stretching Appalachia Appalachia
and I'm like, well the Appalachian Trail. He's like, oh, okay, yeah,
because he was upset. I through Jersey Devil and Owen.

(25:17):
But if you scaled down. We realized while we were
doing that there was so much right here in the
sub range, the Smoking Mountains, and more or less it's
kind of like how Mothman in West Virginia is like
the center of a big spot. This we realized the
Smoking Mountains were just huge, with all these weird little

(25:41):
holler tails and Cherokee legends and Chalkedaw legends and then
a little bit of Civil War history and all that.
So way the travel worked. As we realized, Chattanooga was
a nice little kind of the eastern hub of the
Blue Ridge and Smoking Mountains. So is land in Chattanooga
for your trip, or somehow get to Chattanooga, and then

(26:02):
you drive along the edge of the Smokeees up through Knoxville,
and we threw in a few areas just kind of
in that area of Cherokee National Forest and all that.
And then you come down through Knoxville into Gatlinburg, Tennessee.
You know, a Gatlinburg and a Pigeon Forge. You go
through what we call Baptist Vegas, and we had all
these little side things there into the heart of the

(26:23):
Smoking Mountains National Forest, the Great Smoking Mountains National Forest,
and from there you come out on the other side
into Cherokee itself, the Cherokee Reservation and the only reservation
anybody can drive through. They open to the public. And
then you come along the backside of the smokeyes, through

(26:43):
North Carolina, and you go through Silva Waynesville some territory
we call it, and then out in Franklin and then
off to Murphy and then you're back to chat you know,
to Chattanooga. We threw in Ashville as well, which is
kind of on the edge of it because there were
just so many ghosts there. We had to throw that in.

Speaker 5 (27:04):
Well.

Speaker 13 (27:05):
I wanted to this one, of course, and I'm sure
Mark probably it was like, oh, big shocker. She wants
to talk about Old Green Eyes, and I think that
it has come up before, but I never tire of
hearing about Old Green Eyes.

Speaker 14 (27:19):
So if we could, can we start there?

Speaker 17 (27:23):
Oh man, yeah, Erica, Yeah, I remember going to Rock
City in the Civil War battlefield Chickamaugua.

Speaker 16 (27:32):
Yeah, No, I absolutely I remember that with some little
alcohol around it, but yes, I do. And so that
one of the things about this book is we end
up in a lot of graveyards, which I feel like
that's the thing with Mark, like he's like, you know
where we need to go more graveyards, And I'm like,

(27:53):
we absolutely do not need to keep going into more graveyards,
please and thank you so, but that particular cemetery. Let
me just my brain is going a million miles an hour.
But that one, the old Green Eyes is located. Isn't
that near Gatlinburg.

Speaker 17 (28:15):
No, No, it's Chattanooga. It's near the Battle of Yeah.

Speaker 7 (28:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (28:22):
So it's a battlefield. And it was the Battle of Chickamaugula,
probably the second bloodiest battle of the Civil War, if
not the bloodiest, you know, because reporting is a little off,
you know, Gettysburg pickets charge maybe a little more than this.
And it's sometimes called the Battle of Lookout Mountain or
the Battle amongst the Clouds because hey, the smoky mountains.

(28:43):
It was like the tops of them were covered in
clouds and they were firing down on the battlefield below.
It's pretty crazy this area and Chickamaugua, Oh my gosh,
it's just the story goes. So we'll get to Green Eyes.
We'll just skip ahead. I could regale you on the
Battle of Chickamaugua for an hour and we're not going

(29:04):
to do that. But what happened is after this bloody battle,
the bodies are just strewn everywhere right, and neither side
can go out and get there fallen because the battle's
just on a hiatus and people are hearing the dying
and all this. But what people saw was this dark
figure with glowing green eyes moving amongst the dead and

(29:28):
leaning down over them or the dead and the dying,
and he would just lean down over them, and then
the person would be quiet, or the body would just
kind of stiffen up even more. So. The theory goes
that this was some sort of vampiric spirit that was
moving along the graves and moving around, stealing the life

(29:51):
force of these soldiers. And then we find out it's
older than that. There were plenty of other sightings of
this thing that date back, including the Cherokee mentioned the
green eyed spirit. I forget their name for it. I'm
terrible at pronouncing the Cherokee names. We had a wonderful

(30:14):
advisor on this, Kathy little John. She's a storyteller out
of the Cherokee reservation, and she gave us all the
names and the proper spellings and all that so we
could be respectful of the lore and trust. And I
don't think she had even heard of Old green Eyes
before we meshed them with this spirit, And so that's
what we learn. There's all these connections that many people

(30:38):
didn't put together. And yeah, Old green Eyes. We had
a park ranger there who Erica remembers that he told
us that he saw a strange hitchhiker one night in
the battlefield when they're not supposed to be out there
after dark, and he went up to him and the
guy just kind of looked at him, just kind of
disheveled look and close bright green Eye, and then he

(31:01):
vanished right in front of him. So is he still there?

Speaker 16 (31:06):
Like yeah, and that. Yeah, he also mentioned that they
thought that Green Eyes was rumored to be a man
who lost his head by a cannonball, which.

Speaker 17 (31:20):
We've heard that story a few times.

Speaker 16 (31:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's like a headless horseman, and
they think maybe he's searching for his head. But I'm like,
that doesn't explain the eyes, like, because you generally have
to have a head to have eyes, you know.

Speaker 13 (31:41):
Yeah, just like a disembodied situation, just floating eyeballs, that
would be pretty horrific.

Speaker 16 (31:48):
Yeah, although I decided I kind of want a green
Eyes plushy. I mean, I.

Speaker 17 (31:53):
Think, yeah, there's Green Guy's Green Eyes Festival in October.

Speaker 13 (32:01):
I'm pretty sure that would be a hot cellar. I'm
not gonna lie.

Speaker 17 (32:04):
Yeah, but they have a mascot. They have a Mascot's
a guy in a cosplay. It's just like a black
suit with a like a bug eyed head with big,
buggy green eyes. It's hysterical. Yes. Chattanooga National Cemetery, by
eighteen seventy it had over twelve thousand interments from the
Chickamaugua Battlefield, so like eight thousand some known and four

(32:28):
thousand some unknown.

Speaker 13 (32:30):
So wow, that is crazy, Like no wonder these are
such active locations.

Speaker 14 (32:36):
And speaking of that, there's also we have a lady
in white out that way too.

Speaker 17 (32:42):
Erica loves for ladies in white, right.

Speaker 16 (32:45):
I do love my ladies in white. My ladies in
white are vengeful ghosts. So I have a whole theory
about ladies in white because I think that, I mean this,
the lady in white has a story. But people see
lady in white all over the world, right, and they're
usually dark haired walking along the side of a road.

(33:08):
Or a bridge, and they are appear to be wet
most of the time, like they fell in water, and
they always go, well, it's this person and it's that person.
I'm firmly convinced that most of the time those ladies
in white are something else, some other kind of demon
or something that is out there, because too many people

(33:30):
see them, you know, and they can't all be you know,
Sally the ghost. But this lady in white, Mark, do
you want to start off the story?

Speaker 17 (33:41):
Yeah, The story about her was that she was there
was a nurse there in the battle and possibly they're
kind of blurring it with this other lady that was
also a nurse there, and she's kind of like the
Florence Nightingale of the battlefield. But there was also a
lady a number of years later that did the same

(34:02):
thing during the yellow fever outbreak and during the perculosis outbreak,
and so I think her stories kind of merged, and
I think it's all these ladies kind of fit the
lady and White of this graveyard. And they didn't really
report her until the nineteen fifties. So I don't know
the Civil War stories. I can't find an actual Civil

(34:24):
War story of the lady and white there, So I
don't know. I love the graveyards of Chattanooga. There's so
many good ones. We did find a green lady too,
and I loved her story that was talking about venge stories.
That was this guy had a wife that was sickly

(34:46):
and he kind of pushed her out in her wheelchair
to a river. This is actually a greenwood cemetery, so
appropriate for a lady in green and he just pushed
her into the lake. And that because she was yellow
fever victim and he didn't want to deal with her.
So and within a week, ever, the dutiful husband, he
found a mistress and then you know, that was it.

(35:08):
And then but she comes back as a green mist
and supposedly came and killed the husband and the mistress.
So we love that. I just love the ghosts of Chattanooga.

Speaker 16 (35:20):
I just I love vengeful ghosts. And one other cool
thing which we should mention is one of the most
famous female baseball players.

Speaker 17 (35:30):
Is oh Jackie Mitchell.

Speaker 16 (35:33):
Jackie Mitchell, and she was, you know, she was one
of the female baseball players. We've all heard of the
league of their own, but she was one of the
ones that played. And there is a rumor that she
struck out Babe Ruth.

Speaker 17 (35:49):
It's it's not a rumor. We we have the story
that she but it's the question is was it a setup?

Speaker 5 (35:56):
Oh?

Speaker 17 (35:56):
But she because she played for the Chattanooga Lookouts, which
was a minor league team, so she's technically official MLB
before MLB and the New York Yankees came there for
an exhibition game in nineteen thirty one and she pitched,
and it was a big deal, woman pitcher gonna pitch,
and she struck out Babe Ruth. She struck out was

(36:17):
it Lou Garrig? And then the next batter came up
and she walked them, so they pulled her from the game,
and then she then the next day Old the Kennesaw
Mountain landis the best named ever baseball commissioner. He banned
all women from baseball at that point.

Speaker 14 (36:34):
Lovely.

Speaker 17 (36:35):
Yeah, But she's buried. There no ghost stories about her.
She's resting in peace. But that's a grave you can
visit in Greenwood Cemetery right near Chickamauga Battlefield.

Speaker 13 (36:46):
All right, So, since everyone knows how much I love
not only caves and deep dark places, but the spiders
in those caves, I did choose for you guys to
touch on the crystal caverns cave because it's actually a
protected spider that you're not going to find anywhere else,
which I actually thought was pretty dang cool.

Speaker 16 (37:07):
Yes, yes, well, one thing everyone should know is that
me and Carrie, but Carrie even more than me, absolutely
love spiders. You know a lot of people are terrified
of them, but we absolutely absolutely love spiders. So that
makes you know anything. So for the record, though, I

(37:29):
have to give the disclaimer I did in the book.
You cannot take one of these home like people. That
was my first assumption that I should be able to
take one of them home, but I'm not allowed to
take them home. So with that said, Mark and Mark
and carry got to do a part of that that

(37:50):
cave system without me. But the caverns, which are really
absolutely beautiful, right as Marcus our driver, Mark, how would
you talk about getting up to them?

Speaker 17 (38:04):
Yeah, it's Raccoon mountain caverns. It's probably if you go
up to Rock City, the famous sea Rock City, there's
you'll see those barns all over the world. And if
you head up to Rock City, this is the next
peak over, so you'll see see Ruby Falls, which is
one of the largest underground continuous underground waterfalls in the

(38:26):
United States, which is an amazing place. That's its own
cavern system. This is part of that. It's called Raccoon
Mountain Caverns. It's the next little bit over and it's
a campground. You can stay with your RV or whatever.
But they have the old cave there that you can
go into and it's amazing. It's just a quick little

(38:49):
walk through at the start, but it's pretty tough they have.
This thing was founded in the nineteen thirty so it's
been around a while, and they keep finding new spots
of it, so they keep opening up little bits. If
you're kind of adventurous, not any of us, but if
you're a spilunker, they have a crawling tour. You can

(39:09):
actually get into some bigger areas, but you have to
crawl through some sections that they have whiten. Yeah not
for me, not for me. I'm not going to me either.

Speaker 14 (39:18):
Nope, yeah, no, no.

Speaker 17 (39:20):
I'm a tad stout, so that's not gonna happen.

Speaker 14 (39:23):
Stout or not.

Speaker 13 (39:24):
Well, that's just such a huge bag of nope, uhuh yeah.

Speaker 16 (39:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (39:28):
But there's one tour there they call the Crystal Palace
Tour and it is beautiful and in that area because
it looks like a crystal palace when you walk into
that cave, it's amazing, looks like something Disney would have designed.
But in there they have the cave spider, which is
the Crystal Caverns Cave Spider or I can't pronounce the

(39:49):
Latin name for it. Next next to us, food to us.
My poor Latin teacher is gonna kill me. But it
was discovered in nineteen thirty eight, but they didn't officially
figure it out till nineteen eighty four. That it only
exists here and because of that, no pets, no service animals,
nothing are allowed in here because it would endanger the

(40:12):
spider's environment and it's unique ecosystem there. There are some
also some amazing cave salamanders there, but they found them
in Ruby Falls and a couple of the other neighboring caves,
so they're not quite as endangered. It's pretty crazy. But
that Wild Cave expedition, that's the one where you splunk
next to it and all that there is a ghost there.

Speaker 16 (40:33):
I was gonna say, there is so super fun and exciting.
There's a ghost, and he likes to flirt with women.
So you might feel a little running his fingers through
your hair. You might feel his breath on your ear,
because there's nothing like a disembodied person trying to get

(40:57):
the hawks with you, you know, for all these flunkers.
If you're a female, you might be crawling through that cave,
then you might have a little buddy with you along
the way.

Speaker 13 (41:08):
Well, it just adds to the scooting a little faster.
I guess when you realize it's not your buddy behind you.

Speaker 16 (41:14):
Yeah, exactly. It's nothing like getting flirted with in a cave.

Speaker 14 (41:19):
But yeah, caves aren't creepy enough. We have to add
that in.

Speaker 13 (41:23):
So do you guys know, are there any reports at
all of this spirit touching or interacting with with males.

Speaker 17 (41:34):
Not many. There was a report that this one guy's
wife was getting the treatment and he got upset, so
he started like provoking, saying, hey, stop that whatever, you know,
you got to stop this. This is this is my lady.
And he got a shove but and fell down. But

(41:55):
we don't know if he just fell right, We don't know.
I think it was exaggerated because there are no other
accounts of that happening at all.

Speaker 16 (42:07):
And I mean, how do you compete with a ghost.
I'm just throwing that out there, you know.

Speaker 14 (42:14):
I don't Yeah, I don't think you can.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
No.

Speaker 16 (42:18):
I think it's best just to let that transpire whatever's
happening there.

Speaker 17 (42:22):
Yeah, but stay at the campground. They do have night
tours as well as day tours, and they're super nice
there and they will tell you all about the ghost
and tell you his real story. Yeah.

Speaker 16 (42:36):
All right.

Speaker 13 (42:36):
So before we move on to the Cherokee National Forest
section of this chat, Erica, would you mind picking one
of Erica's eats that sticks out to you or one
of your favorites for this episode.

Speaker 16 (42:48):
I would absolutely love to. And we're gonna do Judy
Darling's doughnuts. So this is one that you can find
in Chattanooga, but you obviously need to plow through all
the ghosts and monsters to go there. But they have
things like a banana split filled donut. These are some

(43:10):
of the most amazing, yummy Granny's apple pie donuts. I
love a good donut. I super love a good donut.
So does Mark, even though he's not supposed to eat them.
But Judy Darling's donuts. Absolutely, hands down, get a donut.
You're gonna go get flirted within a cave, you might
as well have a sweet treat in your hands.

Speaker 14 (43:34):
I love it. And guys, those are all throughout the book.

Speaker 13 (43:38):
Just every single chapter has Erica's eats and Erica's sleep.
So I would like to save who Erica titled the
Female Hannibal Lecter for last. Can we go next with
Dark Aggie and Old Gray Cemetery?

Speaker 17 (43:57):
Oh? Man, yeah, this is this place is awesome. We
were just there, I want to say, about a month
or two ago. Because this old cemetery. They do a
movie night in the cemetery showing horror films and they
did the classic Return of the Living Dead in the cemetery.

(44:22):
You want to talk about amazing experience.

Speaker 16 (44:25):
You know, Mark used the term amazing. I use the
term terrifying. Where I don't want to be looking at
a bunch of zombies on the screen. It's where a
bunch of zombies can come out of the ground.

Speaker 13 (44:36):
Yeah, that's their home base. And Mark's like, oh, I
love this place. Eric's like, really, no, where's my whiskey?

Speaker 17 (44:45):
And of course Carrie is over there taking pictures of
the butterflies.

Speaker 13 (44:47):
On the on the grape absolutely, or sketching, sketching things
or sketching.

Speaker 17 (44:52):
Yeah. So its name the cemetery is Old Gray Cemetery.
It's just outside of Knoxville. It's kind of in Knoxville,
and it's was named after the poet Thomas Gray. And
it's just beautiful. It is one of the prettiest graveyards
I've been in. I've been in a lot, and this

(45:14):
was back during the garden cemetery movement of the mid
eighteen hundreds, where cemeteries of the place you went, you
went and had your lunch there, you went and visited
with the dead folks and had a nice place to
visit and all that. So it's just an amazing place.

Speaker 16 (45:32):
Yeah, And I think one of the things about the
cemetery is that it's it was set up that way
to almost be like like this gardens thing. So it's
not like you go sit in front of a bench
in front of just headstones like. It was very much
designed to be this beautifully laid out place which is
still haunted by a really creepy entity. So among other things, Yeah.

Speaker 17 (45:58):
There's this wonderful there's two graves just across from each other,
thankfully far enough apart. There was a famous duel there
that was kind of like a gunfight at the ok
Corral type thing. There was the family the Maybury's versus
the O'Connors, and there was a fight at a tavern,

(46:20):
and then there was one of them vowed to get
revenge on the other and basically killed the other guy
with a shotgun, and they were both buried on the
same day. Both families buried their men on the same day.
On the other sides of the cemetery. Talk about Haffields
and McCoy's about to happen again, and that actually got
so famous. Mark Twain wrote about it in his book

(46:42):
Life on the Mississippi, and this is nowhere near the Mississippi,
but he had to write about this story. And so
that's all there. But this crazy spirit there and this
one it's just.

Speaker 16 (47:01):
It's so it latched. It appears to have latched onto
this graveyard. It's been seen a lot. Some call it
Dark Aggie, sometimes they call it Black Aggie. And what
it appears to be is like a skeletal male in
a cloak that floats on misted so people see him

(47:23):
all the time and usually right before sunset, so don't
go in there after closing time. You can see him
and there are hundreds of stories about this, but he
appears to get rid of unwanted visitors, right. The thing
is is that the paranormal investigators who have gone there

(47:44):
feel like they've said that somebody defiled his grave and
that's why he does what he does. So you don't
know if that's true exactly, but yeah, it's it's not
even a specific spot of the graveyard, which is even
more terrifying because he can do a pop up pretty

(48:05):
much anywhere you are. So what's a great idea is
to go watch a horror movie in a graveyard with
an entity that has been steened by literally hundreds of
people and doesn't want people there, go tee out.

Speaker 17 (48:23):
Yeah. No, the EVPs and psychics have all talked to him,
and he's just like my graves not where it should be.
I'm very upset, and that's it. But he looks like
the grim Reaper and that was one of the ones
Carrie got to draw from descriptions. It's it's a I
would not want to meet that one.

Speaker 14 (48:44):
Has he not? Has he ever relayed where he is
supposed to be buried.

Speaker 17 (48:50):
Now that's the problem. He's looking for it. He doesn't remember,
but it's not where he thought it was. So I
think they moved. They've moved bodies around in that graveyard
a few times.

Speaker 14 (49:01):
We all know what happens when you do that.

Speaker 17 (49:04):
Yep, yeah, we all see those movies. So but yeah,
there there's another dark Aggie, Black Aggie up in north
in New England, and it's a big creepy statue. And
I think some people get these two mixed up when
they're talking about dark Aggy Black Aggie. I learned that

(49:27):
researching the history of this one. It was like, oh,
there's all these stories. I'm like, oh, there's a statue
there that looks just like it. Oh wait, no, there's
that that's in another cemetery.

Speaker 14 (49:37):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (49:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (49:40):
No shortage of strange, creepy paranormal goodness on that side
of the country, that is for sure.

Speaker 17 (49:48):
Yeah, Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's these these cemeteries, these
these places. There's there's so many beautiful ones. Knoxville, Chattanooga,
I mean everywhere. We talked, how many Gragars do we
visit for this book? Of way too many.

Speaker 16 (50:03):
I don't want to keep talking.

Speaker 13 (50:04):
About the graveyards, She's like, don't remind me of my
graveyard PTSD.

Speaker 16 (50:11):
Yeah, it's you know what, though, I have to say this,
most graveyards, most there's caveat here, are actually a lot
more peaceful because I feel like the person is generally
laid to rest, usually where the trauma happened in the house,
the bar, the alleyway, the you know, gallows, wherever that

(50:33):
kind of stuff is there, there's usually more like that.
But I'm not gonna lie that dark Aggie Cemetery is
there's some trauma there.

Speaker 13 (50:43):
Yeah, all right, guys will last, but in no way
least for this episode.

Speaker 14 (50:49):
Let's talk about spear Finger.

Speaker 16 (50:52):
Oh, she is one of my fasts. Don't ever want
to meet her though, don't ever want to meet her.
What's interesting I will say before Mark jumps in a
little bit about Spearfinger, is we heard a not Cherokee
version of this story which was very, very different, and

(51:15):
it was corroborated with family members who experienced it. But
it is not actually where the legend of Spearfinger comes from. So,
in case you all are wondering, Spearfinger is an entity
that I did call the female Hannibal elector because she

(51:37):
eats livers, yes, and probably not with a nice kiante
and fava bean. So, but Mark, do you want to
start where it begins for our lovely vengeful ghost.

Speaker 17 (51:52):
Yeah, so we put this section in because she really
bookends the book. She's all over everywhere we go, there's
talking is about her, there's talking about her rival, Old Stonehead,
and but sometimes they team up. It's it's very much

(52:12):
Marvel comics sometimes with these these legends and.

Speaker 16 (52:16):
They eat livers, which doesn't.

Speaker 5 (52:18):
Other than that.

Speaker 17 (52:18):
Yeah, yeah, but she's called the stone Witch by the settlers,
and but she's known as to the Cherokee, she is
known as Untilata, which translates to spearfinger in English. And
we heard this from Kathy Little John. She's this amazing
storyteller in Cherokee. We'll probably have to hook you guys

(52:39):
up sometimes, Shannon, because she's just got story stories for that. Yeah,
she's a or, she's an oral historian for the Cherokee.
That's that their stories are not legends, they're not myths,
they're history to them, and we who are we to
say they're not? But she basically there's where to the Cherokee.

(53:01):
There's three worlds. There's the upper world, which is where
the thunderbirds, the creators, the Ninaway, which are kind of
like the angels, they're up there. And then there's the
middle world where we live the birds, the animals, the insects,
the reptiles. And then there's the lower world, the underworld,
and people are not meant to go there, and that's

(53:22):
why they're not big on caves. They're not big on
going into the the under dark of what we would call.
But somewhere in the Nottahalla or maybe near chilliwe the
in the Cherokee National Forests some that's what you're kind
of moving between. When you're heading up from Chattanooga to Knoxville.

(53:44):
There's this lady and she was maybe a fallen nin
Away sort of thing. The nin Away they're not really angels,
they're just kind of like these immortal beings that show
up to the Cherokee. Sometimes they're happy, sometimes they're helpful.
Most of the time they're helpful, but not always. And

(54:07):
she though is pure malevolence. She loves human lovers. And
she would disguise herself as either a young lady or
an old woman, and she would you know, make herself
basically undetectable, and then she would move in with a

(54:27):
family and start attacking them, and she would be there
and most people wouldn't realize it for a few days
that they'd been hurt because she used that long finger.
Her finger is literally a spear, and she would stab
you and then suck out your liver some way, and

(54:48):
it's and she would sing to children as a grandmother,
let your dranny, you know, mess your hair and dress
your hair and come grandchildren's and then sometimes she would
dress this is a beautiful woman to lure the men.
Usual stuff like that. We get that a lot with
these stories and legends. But I think she really did

(55:09):
this because the tribes got together and said, we have
to get rid of this because she is killing many, many,
many of our people. And this is the first time
several tribes got together and held a council a council

(55:30):
the Choda, the Seneko, the Tonai, the Tumatley, and there's
so many. With the Cherokee, they just had this huge
council and we have records of that. And the medicine
man said, I've got an idea. We already know her tactics.
We just don't know how to kill her. But let's
make a trap. We'll trap her and we'll figure it

(55:52):
out how to kill her later. And one of the
ways she would hunt is the Cherokee used to get chestnuts. Now,
the chestnuts in this area had a bad blight and
the American chestnut is almost gone and we're trying to
restore it, but it's one of those it almost died out.
It's very rare to see them, but here they used

(56:13):
to be everywhere. They were the dominant tree of the
Smoky mountains. And there's a lot of good food in
a chestnuts. So what they would do is they'd set
these little brush fires. The chestnuts would fall, Hey, chestnuts
roasting on open fire, and then they would run out
and gather it. So they said, hey, let's dig a
pit outside this town. We'll roast the chestnuts. We'll do

(56:34):
a fire. She'll come out, because this is how she hunts.
She'll grab stragglers out there and then she'll fall into
the pit and then we can figure out how to
kill her.

Speaker 16 (56:45):
So they think this was a brilliant plan.

Speaker 17 (56:48):
Yeah, I like this.

Speaker 16 (56:49):
We're going to refer to this as Plan A.

Speaker 14 (56:53):
Exactly.

Speaker 17 (56:56):
So they dig the pit, they start the fire. Sure enough,
this little old lady comes walking up and she's singing
a song and then she's like, hey, I saw the fire.
I'm lost. I'm from the neighboring village. Please let me in.
And one of the warriors is like, yeah, okay, and
then the medicine man's like smacks him on the back
of the head, idiot, this is what we want. She's

(57:19):
kind of who we're looking for. So they let her
fall into the pit. She starts screaming. She turns into
the stone lady the spearfinger, and they're like, we got her,
let her have it. So they start firing arrows at her,
throwing spears at her. They're all just bouncing off because
she's made a stone no good. So the Ndaway are

(57:43):
very happy with her being caught. They want to help.
So these celestial beings send down a titmouse bird and
it has the legend of you know how to kill her,
and it says an un un, which to the warriors
sounded like nahu, which is Cherokee for heart. So they like,

(58:08):
all right, shoot her heart, shoot her heart. And it's
just again just bouncing off. And so now the Cherokee
called the titmouse bird liars, and they cut off their tongue.
So that's why they're small tongued.

Speaker 16 (58:22):
Yes, so they have to come up with another bird.

Speaker 17 (58:27):
Yeah. So now they send down the Carolina chickadee and
it comes down and it lands on her right hand,
just above that spearfinger, and that's when they realize, oh,
aim for her hand. And so she kept her hand
in a double fist, but they could see her heart
was in her hand, and they were they finally were

(58:49):
able to sever her wrist and then she just falls
to the ground. And supposedly that's the end of spearfinger.
But yes, that's the thing. And now the chickady is
called the truth teller, so we should mention that. And
it's supposedly if you see a chickadee, it's meant to

(59:10):
keep you safe. And so Carrie drew chickadee's and they're
on basically every page of the book, down in the
bottom corner when you're flipping through the book. I thought
that was great.

Speaker 14 (59:21):
Oh that's cool. I didn't notice the birds everywhere.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 17 (59:25):
So, but the Cherokee are convinced she's still around now
because she sings this song. This creepy song that I'm
sure it's pretty in the Cherokee, but it's basically liver liver.
I eat it and they hear that song at night sometimes.

Speaker 16 (59:45):
So either I've said that she will lure you in,
either pretending to be a maiden in distress or an
old woman in distress, and she maintains that until you
get into a trustworthy situation where she can stab you
through the neck or through the back to get to
your liver with her obsidian finger.

Speaker 17 (01:00:07):
Yep. Yeah, And like I said, it's one of those
we've had reports of people just get this weird sense
of unease. People have seen shadows of this figure with
a long, long finger, and the Cherokee are convinced that
she could be out there. She's she's the monster under

(01:00:30):
the bed. Be careful or spearfreng girl, get you stuff
like that. But then we had a medical report. We
didn't put this in the book because I was unable
to get it fully confirmed, but we had a report
of a kid, this would be in Severeville who went
to the hospital because his liver was missing and it

(01:00:51):
was a small hole in his side. So whoa late
that's from the early two thousands, and the chair were
convinced that we know what hit him, we know what
did it, but I could not find confirmation of that,
so I couldn't put it in the book. I'm still

(01:01:11):
digging on that one. I'm sure i'll find it somewhere
because enough people told me about it.

Speaker 14 (01:01:18):
Wow, that's an honorable mention if I've ever heard one.
Holy crab.

Speaker 13 (01:01:22):
I mean not nice for the boy, of course, but
I mean talk about a slight corroboration. There would be
cool to actually find some paper trails on that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
Huh.

Speaker 14 (01:01:31):
Mark, I know you're because you are.

Speaker 13 (01:01:33):
You've always been good about that and you've had many
instances of that over the years. Well you're saying, listen,
I'll mention this, but I haven't actually found the corroboration
or the confirmation rather that I need for this. So
I mean, you've always been that way and everyone appreciates that.

Speaker 17 (01:01:52):
Yeah, I won't put something in that we haven't actually visited.
I won't put to anything that's like on private property
unless we mentioned who to talk to to get to
and all that. We are not urban explorers and we
do not approve of that. I don't like people trespassing
on property and stuff like that, because you can get hurt,
and plus the people who own the place are liable

(01:02:14):
if you do get hurt. And I also won't put
anything in that doesn't at least have some corroboration. I'm
not a big you have to have three sources. As
long as I got two, I'm good. Preferably something official
or an official document or something well, we know, as
they're normal, you're not always going to find.

Speaker 14 (01:02:32):
That, right.

Speaker 18 (01:02:34):
What were you going to say, Erica, I was going
to say that, you know, one of the biggest things
with being a traveler we call you know, all of
the people that are part of our Eerie Travels.

Speaker 16 (01:02:44):
Group travelers, is that it's really important to respect the
environment that you're in and sort of the guidelines and
rules that people have, because there's so much to get
to see, like all this stuff we're talking about, and
you can go to Cherokee and you can even go
their story nights and hear about all of their histories
and stuff like that, that you have plenty of ability

(01:03:07):
to get all that without sort of violating any rules, laws,
or potentially getting yourself stabbed in the liver, which seems
like a terrible unpleasant way to go.

Speaker 13 (01:03:18):
Just starting that out there, Yeah, slightly unpleasant. I think
I'd rather take the whiskey and the graveyard.

Speaker 16 (01:03:23):
I don't know, yep, agree exactly exactly.

Speaker 13 (01:03:29):
And so just kind of closing out the encounters and
the stories and the legends here, might I just say,
and I'm sure you too would agree that if there's
whistling coming from the woods, baby cries, or if there's
some kind of it sounds.

Speaker 14 (01:03:43):
Like singing, do not go into the woods. Okay, it's
nothing good.

Speaker 17 (01:03:50):
Unless somebody's looking. You are lost and somebody you know, people.

Speaker 14 (01:03:53):
Are looking at Yeah, that's the only time respond period.

Speaker 17 (01:03:58):
If you don't respond, it's how many letters do we get, Erica?
How many emails?

Speaker 16 (01:04:03):
Oh my gosh, it just through the record only if
you don't know what direction you're heading when you're lost,
because there is a fifty to fifty chance whatever voice
you're hearing is not there to be helpful.

Speaker 19 (01:04:16):
So yeah, yeah, I mean we get so many and gosh,
we had one that literally sounded like they were about
to be abducted by fairies and never come back.

Speaker 14 (01:04:27):
Yeah, this is exactly.

Speaker 13 (01:04:28):
This is not a You will receive a high five
and a hot chocolate situation. Okay, folks, let's just you
stick in your camp and with your friends. Don't don't
get all like I'm going Indiana Jones over here.

Speaker 12 (01:04:40):
No.

Speaker 17 (01:04:41):
I mean, if you are with a team and you're
out bigfoot hunting or something like that, yes, investigate, but again,
don't straight from your group. Don't. Don't you always never
go alone period.

Speaker 13 (01:04:52):
Oh yeah, even if you're not out there for paranormal stuff,
for bigfoot stuff, that's just not smart. I was going
to say another word, but you know.

Speaker 17 (01:05:00):
Yeah, it's it's it's not a pleasant thing. You're not
going to win a prize for being out there alone.
You're you're not bear grills.

Speaker 13 (01:05:07):
Sorry, even bear grills grow screws up sometimes, you know,
these guys also get themselves into really hairy situations pun intended.
So everybody, I'm on your p's and q's. Okay, guys, Well,
let everybody know about the podcast, where to find that,
and of course when is the Dark Side of the
Smoky Mountains coming out?

Speaker 16 (01:05:29):
It officially releases August twenty third, but if you go
to Eerie Travels dot com you can find links to
where to listen everywhere we are, even on YouTube and
things like that, and then our events page says where
we're going to be and we will have advanced copies
for purchase at our events, and it comes in both.

(01:05:52):
I mean, you can't get the ebook, but I do
not recommend it because all of the beautiful pictures and
images don't go well in e book form, So you
can get it in paperback or an absolutely beautiful hardcover
which if you take the jacket off, has the full
maps of the Smoky Mountains and the hardcover has color pictures.

(01:06:14):
So if you're into that sort of thing, you can
come find us and one of the many events will
be at and get that signed by us.

Speaker 13 (01:06:24):
And how about the podcast, you guys? Where all can
folks find that? And Eerie Travels?

Speaker 16 (01:06:31):
If you just look up Eerie Travels pretty much on
any podcasting platform or on you know, the Apple, Amazon, Spotify, YouTube,
you google it, you'll find it. You'll find the amazing
artwork that Carrie did representing me and Mark, and you
can tell which one's me because I have the terrified

(01:06:53):
look on my face as he's explaining something to me.
So you can find us anywhere, and we have two
episodes a week. We also have a Patreon if you
want to get behind the scenes information from us and
be in one of our advanced travelers, you can do that.
But it's all located at Eerie Travels dot com. You

(01:07:15):
can find us and including our friends of the podcast
like Shannon Hey.

Speaker 13 (01:07:21):
Well, thank you both so much. And I can't wait
for the Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains Part two
for you know, particularly for itf We're going to do
a few of these, as I mentioned you guys, so
stay tuned because Mark and Erica will be back.

Speaker 17 (01:07:37):
Yeah, we just scratched the surface there. That's literally not
even the first couple chapters.

Speaker 14 (01:07:43):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 13 (01:07:44):
Yeah, there's it is so much information, and I'm like, okay,
I was going through the entire book and I'm like, well,
I could kind of zip around all over the place,
but I better keep things neat and tidy or Mark
and eric are gonna kill me. So I thought I
better try to go kind of down the line because
we have a lot more to talk about, and then

(01:08:05):
there's still a crap ton more for people just to
read that we will never have time to touch on.
Nor would we want to spoil every single story in
the book, because it would actually we'd have to do
a whole other new podcast just for the Dark Side
of the Smoky Mountains.

Speaker 14 (01:08:19):
So how about that.

Speaker 17 (01:08:21):
Yeah. My last few books, if you bought you guys
a body, Erie Florida or Erie Appalachia, those were around
one hundred and twenty pages. This one is over three
hundred pages.

Speaker 13 (01:08:31):
Yeah, so it's a big bite you got to take,
and I love it. It's a lot of creepy, weird
stuff and it's just fantastic with the extra little bits
and their places to go stay that might be haunted
or creepy, and amazing places to eat, which who.

Speaker 14 (01:08:46):
Doesn't love that?

Speaker 13 (01:08:47):
Well, you guys, thank you so much for being a
part of my episode five hundred.

Speaker 14 (01:08:50):
I really appreciate it.

Speaker 16 (01:08:53):
Thank you for having us. This was amazing. I'm so excited.

Speaker 17 (01:08:56):
Yeah, Shannon, what an honor. Thank you so much for
having us as often as we can't carry loves you
guys and says all the best. As we all know,
Carrie is not much of a talker, she's a drawer,
but she she We couldn't do this without her, and
we are all just so happy to be on this show.
You do the amazing stuff and we're just we're honored
to be here.

Speaker 13 (01:09:17):
You guys have been around with me for a long time,
and it's been a while. It's been a while since
you've been on. So I know everyone's going to be
very happy to hear this.

Speaker 14 (01:09:23):
And Erica, you're on with us.

Speaker 13 (01:09:25):
Now you're done, You're in the you're in the fold,
you're stuck.

Speaker 16 (01:09:30):
I am into the friend.

Speaker 17 (01:09:34):
You are a phrasey.

Speaker 13 (01:09:35):
Now you are officially a prazy.

Speaker 20 (01:09:40):
Well, I'm so so.

Speaker 21 (01:09:41):
I was given the name business.

Speaker 17 (01:09:44):
I was out of college.

Speaker 21 (01:09:45):
I've done these dings as my profession, my producer at
the block. But that's something her story, that's all gone,
that's all possible.

Speaker 8 (01:09:56):
And I want to see the million.

Speaker 20 (01:10:00):
But nobody knows who then is, because we don't know
ourselves except through listening to our egos.

Speaker 9 (01:10:09):
And consulting our memoris.

Speaker 20 (01:10:12):
But that that's a really and that again leads us
beect to this question, what are you?

Speaker 3 (01:10:19):
That is the mean.

Speaker 21 (01:10:22):
We shall see how they play with.

Speaker 20 (01:10:23):
The success or buy the cost to.

Speaker 8 (01:10:27):
Get you to come out of your show and find.

Speaker 15 (01:10:31):
Out will be very old.

Speaker 22 (01:11:00):
It's it's it's.

Speaker 15 (01:11:07):
It's stuttsssssss.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Send.

Speaker 8 (01:12:23):
People for example, are quite divided on us.

Speaker 20 (01:12:26):
They will say, no, we don't believe literally in reincarnation
that after your funeral glow you will suddenly become somebody
different living somewhere else. They will say, reincarnation means this
that if you're sitting here now, are really convinced.

Speaker 16 (01:12:45):
That you're the same.

Speaker 15 (01:12:45):
Person the bolder at.

Speaker 20 (01:12:46):
The door half an hour ago, you'll be reincomed if
you're liberating your plans now that you're not.

Speaker 21 (01:12:55):
The past hasn't been tested, The future doesn't insisted.

Speaker 8 (01:13:00):
There is only the present.

Speaker 20 (01:13:02):
That's the only walls, said Master.

Speaker 17 (01:13:06):
To get the place, said.

Speaker 21 (01:13:09):
String.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
It does not become something.

Speaker 21 (01:13:13):
Because there is some sense.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
And then there is springs.

Speaker 15 (01:14:05):
Its pass.

Speaker 22 (01:14:16):
Puss Puss, Puss, Puss puss pssts.

Speaker 20 (01:14:58):
Puts has the same idea in four Days, where he says,
when you settled down in the train to read your
newspaper and so you're not the same person.

Speaker 9 (01:15:19):
At a while ago and living the plan.

Speaker 17 (01:15:23):
If you think you are, you are linking your movements
up in the check.

Speaker 20 (01:15:28):
And this is what buyings the wee boland when you
know that every moment of which you are is the
only movement this cousin desa, the master will say, from.

Speaker 8 (01:15:40):
Somebody I can.

Speaker 17 (01:15:41):
Have a walk across the room and it can't be back.

Speaker 21 (01:15:44):
And he says, where are your footment?

Speaker 17 (01:15:48):
They've gone, So where are you?

Speaker 16 (01:15:51):
Who are you?

Speaker 17 (01:15:53):
When we are asked who we are, usually give

Speaker 20 (01:15:55):
A kind of recipation of an Instrmtsen