iNTO THE FRAY 507: Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains-Part Two

Mark Muncy and Erika Lance of Eerie Travels are back! This time around we discuss haunted locations and dark history, such as the Wheatlands Plantation, Cades Cove, the Old Mill Restaurant, the Moon-Eyed People, and more.

Get your copy of The Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains: A Travel Guide for Your Next Spooky Journey here- (releasing Aug 23rd, 2025!) https://a.co/d/b1ts03J

Find Mark and Erika on:
Their Website- https://eerietravels.com/
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Spotify- https://open.spotify.com/show/62kHAWbtMnTTpjMVt3SOdV
Apple Podcasts- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/eerie-travels/id1669145793

This episode is brought to you by the book series, Project Threshold. From author, Craig Crawford....a series of novellas, Project Threshold is about a secret group who walks in the shadows standing against malevolent beings in order to keep us safe.  Dark horror and sci-fi, jump in with three different teams of agents as they keep back the darkness. Learn more at Projectthreshold.com

Project Threshold Season 1 released in 2023 and it’s back with Season 2, releasing now.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The infinite complaces people went to and pro fears about
their little affairs, serene in the assurance of their dominion
over this small binning fragment of solar driftwood, which, by
chance or design, man has inherited out of the dark
mystery of time and face?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Are we living in a multiverse with other dimensions all
around us? What if the encounters reported by people on
podcasts like Into the Fray are true? What if there's
bleed through? What if there are creatures and entities crossing
over into our world all the time? Who could protect us?
This is the premise of Project Threshold, a series of novellas.

(01:29):
Project Threshold is about a secret group who walks in
the shadows, standing against malevolent beings in order to keep
us safe. Both dark horror and sci fi jump in
with three different teams of agents as they keep back
the darkness. Project Threshold Season one released in twenty twenty three,
and it's back with season two releasing now. Go to

(01:54):
Project Threshold dot com to check out the books and
an audible release of the entire first season. Join the
newsletter and join the team to help protect humanity from darkness.
Go to Project Threshold dot com again, that's Project Threshold
dot com. On this episode of Into the Fray, I

(02:16):
welcome back Mark Munsey and Erica Lance there, of course,
the hosts of the podcast Eerie Travels, and you guys.
All you guys know Mark very well. He's been on
many times. I think he is still the most oft
visited guest for Into the Fray. That is my eerie
Florida friend and your eerie Florida friend, Mark Munsey. And

(02:38):
of course, this is part two of three episodes that
we will be doing about the book that Mark Munsey
and Erica Lance have co written and co traveled. Might
I say together It is the Dark Side of the
Smoky Mountains, a travel guide for your next spooky journey,
with illustrations by the very town to Carrie Schultz Eerie Muncie.

(03:03):
I have to it's her full name. I just I
can't not say her full name. So there we go.
Welcome back you guys, Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
I love being here.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
I love having you guys. The first round we covered
a lot of stuff and we're going to cover a
lot of good stuff on this one as well. A
part that Part one was episode five hundred, of course,
and we talked about things like old green eyes, crystal caverns,
and it's freaky spiders and things which means spider is
a spear finger and then what's his name, dark Aggie.
So we that was all on part one and part

(03:35):
two's got just the same amount of paranormal and creepy
creature goodness.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
Is part one. And thanks everybody. When I listened to
five hundred and you were giving out all the shadout
everybody who called in to give it all the shout outs.
I did not pay those people to shout me out
the few times that they did, and.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, you got called out on that. You did.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
Belove you? Is that if I do bup India, I
do you a dollar?

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Okay, a dollar and a high five.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
Exactly yep.

Speaker 4 (04:13):
So I'll take yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
And maybe you got one of his books, maybe he'll
sign it for you, just maybe, yeah, Then you can
make a lot more one day when you know, these
guys get super duper uber famous and then that signature
is going to be like a Stephen King first edition
type of a deal.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Don't say stuff like that, Shannon, and it'll go straight
to his head.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
I know it already has. It's already too late. I
can't take it back. Here gets in the ether. Al Right, guys,
let's dive in.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
I have signed a few books.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Go ahead, mark, sorry.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Said I have signed a few books to eBay.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Just yeah, you never know what you're gonna find on
eBay anymore. I haven't bought anything from eBay in a while.
Is that still a hot thing to do? Is to buy?

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Like?

Speaker 3 (05:10):
I know?

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I a long time ago I looked up haunted dolls
on eBay and quite a few popped up.

Speaker 4 (05:18):
And they're still there. They're still there, which is interesting
to me. I love that that's a thing.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
See here's my thinking on that. Do you think that
if a doll is priced quite cheaply then that means
it's actually haunted because that means the person really truly
wants to just pass that on to someone else. Or
does that mean it's bs and you need to search
for the more expensive one and there that then verifies
it a little bit more for it being real? Thoughts? Please?

Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, they're in lies the rub I did notice that
New Orleans they now have some of the real litors
but up signs that say haunted to increase the value,
which imagine that twenty years ago was the other way around.
You had to put some signs not haunted.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, they try to keep that ish quiet and you're like, no,
this place isn't haunted. That door shuts all the time,
you feel a breeze, You're like, no, oh, it was there.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
And now they're like, oh no, it's there's ghost here
all over the place. They're just in this closet. Come
on out and make some money selling your house for
a haunted tour.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Oh you don't like the voodoo witch queen the animal
blood on the floor, I'm sorry, Go next door, that'll
be the place for you.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Wow. Wow, that took on a whole new level. Guys,
are you going to be real toorists now? Because I
think that would be really cool?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Or the dark side of realty?

Speaker 4 (06:40):
La grow and Muncie realtors extraordinary of the paranormal.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yeah, don't go in the attic, don't go in the basement,
and for the love of God, locked the closet doors.
All right, guys, let's jump in Shalloway.

Speaker 5 (06:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
First on the list that I have chosen for this
little trip we shall take is the Wheatland Plantation.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Ah oh, all right, my favorites, one of my favorites
because it has one of the things that I love
the most, Dungeon's ghosts. Oh yeah, yes, Weleetland's plantation mark.
Do you want to kick us off here?

Speaker 4 (07:27):
All right? So, as we say on the show, we
got to go in the waybacks with the wayback machine
back to the eighteen twenties, in fact, eighteen twenty, and
that was when the Wheatland Plantation was built, also known
as the Wheatlands, And it was built by a guy
named Timothy Chandler, and it was his family farm. He

(07:48):
was a revolutionary war veteran and he had fought hard
and long, so they granted him this land. Of course,
previous land, we'll get into that. The land is a
little bit older than that, of course. And when he died,
he gave his land to his son John, And so
John's the one who built the main house and built

(08:10):
the plantation house. And it covered around forty over four
thousand acres and when it the Civil War, Yeah, yeah,
not the house that was. Isn't that big? Sorry, thanks, Erica.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
That is the biggest house ever built in the entire universe.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
Yes, that it'd be bigger and built more than but yeah,
the Chandler Gap community is famous there. It was built
basically by the when John Chandler he after the Civil War,
he gave a large portion of his lands to the
slaves and they founded that community and it's still there,
so very cool.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
Yes, that's the somewhat good part, if you can say
that this particular.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
Area, Yeah, it's a little dark. There wasn't at least
during the Civil War. There wasn't any major things. There
was some raids in the area, raiding some of the farms.
Both sides. That area was the we don't want to
be part of the Civil War, so everybody was just
kind of not really into it. This whole area of

(09:22):
the Smoky Mountains kind of it was both sides were involved,
so not everybody dealt with it. But what happened was
it basically we didn't really discover much about the house
until about around twenty ten ish when a new couple,
John Burns, they basically got the house. We're trying to

(09:45):
restore it and they discovered, oh so many things, and
that was when the paranormal activity began. They found out
the house was.

Speaker 3 (09:54):
Built on pormal activity started being reported. Yeah, I believe
what's happening based on what happened at this house way
before then. Hence the reason Erica stayed by the sign.

Speaker 4 (10:11):
Really, the picture in the book is the picture in
the book is about as close as Erica would get
to that.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yes, Eric, are you sensitive at all? Could you feel
what was going on? And you just didn't want to
take a step any closer for fear of dragging things
home with you?

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Yes, I do carry protections not to drag things home.
But it was a really heavy environment. So yes, I
am very sensitive to it. It is a very heavy environment,
and unfortunately, when I go around ones that are more powerful,
I see images like going and usually it's not pleasant.

(10:50):
So Mark tricked me, and I'm going to use the
word tricked me into going to trains on our last
travel and oh I could taste it in my mouth. Yeah,
So this was great is heavy?

Speaker 4 (11:09):
What was great is we were going we did the
Philippy and we saw the Philippy mummies, and then I
got her to go to trans Allegany because it's just
it's just a little about half hour away and we
needed some pictures for the next book, the one we're
working on now. And I got her into the parking
lot at the very edge of the parking lot, and

(11:30):
I'm like, let's get a little closer so we can
get a picture in front of it, so we can
have a nice author picture. And then as we got
to the footsteps, I'm like, oh, look there's the gift shop.
Let's just run in and get a T shirt. And
once I got her in, oh yeah, that's about as
far as I could get her. She was ready for
the door right then.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Oh, in the best partch and he didn't stop there.
He was like, yeah, we don't need to pay for
a tour. And then he goes up to the booth
and goes, wait, how much is it for just right
inside the house the building here, And I'm like, no,
put that wallet away, I'm leaving right now.

Speaker 5 (12:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:05):
So the wheat is similar, not as bad, of course,
but very similar.

Speaker 5 (12:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
I would imagine anyone that is sensitive trans Alleghini is
about the last place that you would want to be
stepping stepping into any way shape or form.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Oh yeah, no, nope, yep, nope.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
Yeah. Uh the wetlands it back to that. Yeah. The
guy who built the blace, John Chandler, He was a freemason,
and when he started building a house, he realized it's
on a geode, like a giant geode the land there,
so he incorporated that into the foundation of the house.
So for those of us who know the geodes and

(12:46):
crystals channel energy type thing, of course, this is perfect.
And we're in Severeville, which is where the Battle of
Boyd's Creek was in the seventeen ninety and that's where
Severe John Severe fought a bunch of Cherokee and he
dumped a bunch of the casualties in a mass grave

(13:09):
right here at the wheatlands, at least twenty some odd bodies.
And then they cleared out. Yeah, it's just crazy. And
then they cleared out more overgrowth and they discovered this
wonderful pond and a little spring and a abandoned slave cemetery. Wow.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, and it's a lot.

Speaker 4 (13:32):
Of death and that's yeah. Seventy recorded deaths in the
house from the Chandler family. And I loved his quote
when we talked to Richard, he said, of course there's
ghosts here. There's ghosts everywhere here.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Seventy deaths within the house are documented.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yes, this team died in the master bedroom alone, and
one lady died on the main staircase of a heart attack,
and then another one fell and broke her neck in
the nineteen thirties. Yeah, and Tim Chandler nineteen forty two,

(14:16):
he was one of the last direct family members, got
drunk and began shooting randomly throughout the house and so
to stop him, his son wound up bludgeting him to
death to stop him. And I just wow, how drunk
do you have to be? And that now people hear
the yelling, the thuds, and then some strange gurgling sound.

(14:40):
Oh god, I can't imagine that. And then there's a
little girl in a blue dress ghost. Yeah, not a
little lady in white, just a little girl in blue.
And of course shadow figures everywhere. And that's one that's
just it's a crazy how opened for tours.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
So it's a beautiful place.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
You go and get it to her. Yep, Thursday through
Sunday you can get it to her. And if you
reach out to them at the Wetlands, you can schedule
a private night for ghost hunting.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Disembody gurgling. Yeah, that's a lot there, seventy deaths with
just within the house alone. And then yeah, phantom gurgling.
That's you don't hear that often, lovely.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
So you got a mask grave, you got murders, you
got all kinds of deaths, and that geode underneath just
soaking up all the energy.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
So yeah, two mass graves, Mark No. One one.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
Oh yeah, technically, and.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
I'm quite sure the family cemetery is somewhere there as well.
So yes.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Now, one of the features throughout the book is Erica's
eats and Erica's sleeps, where she's choosing cool restaurants with
either some kind of a cool name or history attached
to it. Of course is maybe it's haunted, a creature,
whatever it is. And those are restaurants, replaces, A B
and b's, you can sleep, you can stay whatever, a motel.
And then I ourmo Mark and I before we do

(16:28):
any of these interviews, he sends me the book ahead
of time, and I'll we do our three parters, whatever
it is, and I send him a list of my choices, essentially,
and when I just found this out before we hit
the record button. But there's I'll let Mark tell it.
But there's a cool story synchronicity that has gone on
with this list this time, and I'm enjoying it. And
it has to do with my choice for this episode,

(16:52):
because I figured each episode I would feature one of
Erica's eats, where Erica's sleeps, maybe a little of both.
Maybe next time I need to do that, do a
two for but I chose for Eric's eats this time
the abbey in Townsend, and that's in Tennessee. So Mark,
would you mind sharing with me, or rather sharing with

(17:13):
the audience what you shared with me before we hit
the record button about this particular location.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yeah, it was interesting. I was taking two of my
YouTuber friends. They are known as Tampa Jay and Chris
the Girl. If anybody follows them, they've got both got
quite big followings their daily vloggers. They go to theme
park attractions and festivals and stuff like that, and they
just moved up to the Knoxville area and I wanted

(17:42):
to show them some of the spooky places from the
new book, and so we agreed to meet in Cade's
Cove and we did a little breakfast there and then
we went through the cove, which is it's so funny
because that's one of the places we're gonna be talking about.
But we stopped for lunch at a restaurant and it's
called the Abbey in Townsend, Tennessee. And that's while I'm

(18:05):
sitting there eating with them at this amazing place, I
get the message from Shannon, Hey, here's the list of
places I want to talk about this weekend, and it
includes Kate's co it includes the Wheatlands, and it includes
the abbey that I was sitting at that moment.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
I love that. That doesn't happen very often to me.
So when I heard that before we hit record on
going Okay, that's pretty freaking amazing, because I have to say,
this book is so that's why we're able to do
three episodes anytime Mark writes something. And now that Mark

(18:42):
and Erica have this book, it is so chalk full
of locations and information. There was plenty to choose from.
So I just think that's very cool that happened. That
was It's a very interesting coincidence, synchronicity, whatever made my
day today.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
Yeah, so Eric, you want to tell him about this place,
I will.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
So the abbey is really neat because the abbey used
to be a former chapel and it's right on the
river and so you river tubers can actually just float
up to the outdoor patio. So if you're out tubing,
which I recommend heavily, that's super fun and not haunted
at all. So it's good. I love tubing. But one

(19:26):
of the things about this, so it's for more chapel
really neat inside. But there's apparently a spirit with an
unknown background that will just come through the dining room
and in broad daylight. This isn't a like nighttime ghost
you know, on to schedule a special time. They might
walk right up to you in the middle of eating

(19:48):
your lunch or dinner. It's awesome. There's amazing beer, cheese,
and I might have needed a few shots to sit there.
It's fine, it's fine, don't need a ghost friend coming
up while I'm eating. But they have incredibly yummy food.
They have a rib special which I love every Friday
night and it's super fun. So the other cool thing

(20:09):
is a townshend where this is where the Smoky Mountain Bigfoot.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
Festival is, Yeah, which is huge event. Yeah, on par
with Hawking Hills and West Virginia Bigfoot. Thousands of people
show up for that. Very cool. But the abbey, it's
very neat. They you walk in, there's the bar right
there and you order at the bar, your food, your drinks,

(20:34):
what have They've got a distillery they carry some of
our favorite drinks from all over the Smoky Mountains. They've
got the Bujin Brewery stuff there as well, which is
one of our favorite places. And they've got mark of
my favorite features is the fact that the booths.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
They use the pews from the booths to make the booth,
so you're sitting in the old pe.

Speaker 4 (21:02):
Yep and it's right in front of the altar and
right next to the organ, so you're actually in that
main area. There's also a vestibule area that's really nice.
A great place for events too, so they'll do like
your weddings, receptions and stuff like that. So very cool.
Cannot recommend it enough. And good food. I like their
flank steak special. That's one of my favorites. They have

(21:22):
daily specials, so check them out.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Is there any thought as to who the apparition is?

Speaker 4 (21:30):
As I've done some deep diving, I think I may
have found it because there was one of the pastors
died there during a sermon. Oh and they did not
know that, and I didn't. I only found it because
I found the original name of the church, and that
was where we were able to go. Okay, that might

(21:50):
be the guy who knows. They of course don't want
to say the pastor is haunting the place, but could
be anybody. That's the problem with these things. If it's
not really documented, we don't know. It is funny when
you go there. I asked the lady at the bar
if she had heard the stories, because I always ask
every time you go, right, you go anywhere, you ask,
even if you do know it's haunted. And of course

(22:11):
lady bar, no, don't know what's talking about. But then
the old waitress right next to is, are you kidding?
What about the thing the other night? What about the
thing the other day? And she's, oh, no, we don't
talk about that, and she said the owner knows about it. Yeah,
talk to him. It's very cool.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yeah, huge. I five, whether that's him or not, it's
still cool that you found that so very well done.

Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yes, yes, and we do what we can do what
we can.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, all right, So staying within the Great Smoky Mountains,
this is a place that I have been myself when
I was still living in Ohio. Drove down and went
to Cade's Cove and if that's ringing a bell with
anyone that is at all into strange disappearances. It was

(22:57):
also heavily featured in all the Missing four one stuff
is the haunting disappearance of little Dennis Martin. And you
know that is not the only strange thing that goes
on in Caid's Cove. And something you guys mentioned in
the book is something you call bear jams, which we

(23:17):
did get stuck in a bear jam there and people
were getting out to take pictures and they're getting yelled at,
what are you doing, you dummy, get back in the car.
It is freaking bears. Okay, So I actually do have
pictures taken from the car, not outside the car, taken
from the car of a mama and her cub, which
I had really never seen anything like that unless it

(23:40):
was at a zoo. So that was really cool from
my perspective. But to be in Caid's Cove in the
Smokies in general, really it just it sets itself up
this beautiful, creepy, haunting and very unique location because the
Smokies is smoky. That's how it got its name. But anyhow,

(24:01):
let's talk about the area Cade's Cove in Tennessee, yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
It's what's fun you talk about the bears. We took
the YouTubers there and we didn't see any bears. No
log jam, no bear jam. No, there was a deer
jam because there were a few deers. But what was
funny is as soon as we left, and we left them,
Carrie and I stopped at another little gift shop that
had just opened in a little oddities market and shout

(24:30):
out to them. They were great, right next to Bigfoot
Philly cheese steaks, which highly recommend. And again it just opens,
so we couldn't put it in the book. But when
we stopped there, there were four bears just in the
dumpster behind the restaurant. So that's they're all over the place,
black bears, all over the Smoky Mountains. And remember they're

(24:51):
more afraid of you than you are of them.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Just my recommendation is to not pet the fuzzy dogs,
as I liked it. Do not the dog because what
doesn't kill you will make you stronger, except bears. Bears
will kill you.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
Yes, So anyway, the Caid's Cove is one of just
people come from all over the world to go to
the Smoky Mountains, and this is everybody goes to Gallenberg.
Everybody goes to Pigeon Forge and goes down the main
strips like what we like to call Baptist Vegas. But
when you go to Caide's Cove, you are getting the

(25:35):
smoky mountains and this huge valley. Now the natives cleared
it by burning big sections of it, this flat land,
and it stayed that way and it is and then
the settlers came. They chased the Cherokee out, and then
while they were there, they grew to about seven hundred people,

(26:00):
and there were lots of kids per household, because this
is the eighteen hundred early eighteen hundreds. You need ten
to twelve kids keep the farm running. And then it
had several churches built up because you have to have
the Baptist area, the Methodist area, and they did build
a school it's long gone, and they it was a community.

(26:23):
They did marriages, they did all the things. They My
favorite thing is Wiener cabins, and that was where you
would have this special cabin that was just for couples
in their early days of marriage, so they could have
the quiet time, the honeymoon time. But then they were
still close enough to go and help with the farms
and stuff, and it's just it's an amazing place. And

(26:46):
then the families got kicked out when they built it
into the National Park, so we just keep kicking people
out of there.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
So March.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Yeah. So we've got one of.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
My favorite stories though, in Kid's Cove involves one of
the first X men.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. We've got an equivalent to storm there.
Buckle up. This is a fun one. So there was
a young couple and her name. Their names were Mavis
and Basil step and they lived in a little two
room cabin right along one of the streams there, and
they had a great, yea life there. But Mavis had

(27:38):
this fear, this phobia that she was just could not stand,
and that was thunderstorms. And she had heard this legend
of a bride, a ghostly bride that had been born
during a thunderstorm, had been surrounded by thunderstorms, and when

(28:01):
she went and finally got married right at the steps
of what's called the primitive Baptist church now, she was
struck by a freak bolt of lightning in her wedding dress,
dead right at the base of the church. And so
she supposedly haunts the church and the graveyard, and she's

(28:22):
seen as a lady in white but also with blue
sparks coming off of her. Her face is a dark
blue surrounded with energy, and some people say that they
see her walking through walls there. It's interesting.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
One of the things too, is like in their house
they had, she wouldn't allow any metal, including she made
quilts but without metal needles. She used like stone and
stuff because she didn't want to wood needles. She didn't
want to have any metal in the house where she

(28:59):
could get rock.

Speaker 4 (29:02):
Yeah, that's how severe her fear was. And she famously
built one. It's a legendary blanket, a legendary quilt, and
she made it out of her husband, Basil's shirts, his
old flannels, and she called it the Cussing Cover because
he had been wearing one shirt during their first big

(29:22):
fight and she learned that Basil could swear a storm.
So that's the shirt she remembered, and so that became
the Cussing Cover. And I love that's And apparently it's
still in the hands of a local collector, so I'd
love to see it if you're out there listening. And
we heard the story that it's still out there, but

(29:47):
it's light. She didn't die from lightning. Mavis had some
sort of severe illness. We assumed tuberculosis because it would
have been around that time period, and she was very bedridden.
Died and she went to Basle and said, all right,
I'm going to be gone soon. The farm's gonna need

(30:07):
a partner. I'll I give you permission to remarry, but
there are two rules you must never break, and one
is never sell any of my quilts and never use
them on any metal bed. So there you go. As

(30:28):
long as you don't break those two rules, you're fine.
So she died and Basil agreed to those terms, and
ever the d dutiful husband. About two weeks later he
remarried a woman about twenty years younger, and her name
is Truly, and of course Truly was not happy with

(30:52):
old wooden beds, so get me a new metal bed.
And then winter came and it got really cold, and she's,
can I use one of the quilts to keep me warm?
So he's, of course, so what does she use? The
cuts and cover?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, and Erica, we're we all sense it's not gonna end.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
Well, what is it your favorite thing? Erica?

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Yep?

Speaker 4 (31:22):
A vengeance ghost?

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Oh, I love vengeance ghosts, vengeance ghosts or my favorite.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
Yeah, Truly wakes up and sees some woman standing at
the foot of her bed and pointing at her and
screaming at her. So she screams out awake and tries
to get Basle awake, but yeah, he's gone, but she's gone, Bazle,
What what are you talking about? Just go back to bed,
don't know what time about. And then a few hours later,

(31:51):
Truly finds herself like flying out of bed, waking up,
and then there is this bright flash of light and
she can't see anything. When she wakes up, the eyes
come back and Basil is struck dead by lightning and
no other damage anywhere in the house and no reported storms,

(32:13):
no nothing, just poor Basle struck by lightning. So there
you go.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
I think for anyone that doesn't like thunderstorms, the last
place that you should be is Tennessee. I'm pretty sure
they have pretty amazing storms there.

Speaker 4 (32:31):
Yeah, especially this area, because there are tons of freak
lightning strikes in bright sunny days all around Cade's Cove
and everybody says, oh, it's the lightning lady, and no
one really knows who that first lightning lady is. That's
my problem. I keep trying to dig into her. You
can find everything on Mavis and the cuss and cover,

(32:54):
but trying to find stuff about the bride is super
hard to do. There are so many graveyards in Cade's Cove.
There's supposed to be fourteen according to the census, and
so far we've only found eleven of them. So there
are three missing ones, including the one where Mavis is
supposed to be buried. We don't know where that one is.

(33:17):
And the one interesting thing about this is we talked
to one of the rangers there and he said, oh yeah,
let me show you something, and he showed us off
of one of the main roads, there was this giant
rock and it is covered. It just looks giant black rock.

(33:42):
And he walks over to it and he says, it's
not a black rock's not shale, and he rubs it
and it's all soot and it's been struck by lightning.
It's numerous times like a natural lightning rod, because it's
the tip of a copper vein that runs under Cade's Cove.
And there's supposedly another little one not too far from

(34:06):
the church, the old primitive Baptist Church. So maybe that's
where these stories of lightning strikes and the freak lightning
that hits around there, it's because of the copper veins
that run under there.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, it's definitely a strange area, and you can talk
about all the what's under the ground to help exacerbate
such certain situations of high strangeness. That's something that's been
speculated in other areas of the country too, So very
interesting area. One of the few of the many locations

(34:41):
you guys cover in the book that I've been to,
and it is gorgeous. Okay, So next up we are
going to Pigeon Forge, Tennessee and the Old Mill restaurant.
And this even before I began reading it, I'm like, oh, no,
where have I heard that? And then it dawned on
me that I have watched the episode of Restaurant Impossible
with Robert Irvine where they went in and it's a

(35:03):
restaurant in trouble. They go in and they help the
management and if there's fighting, but they also do renovations
within the restaurant. And I would love to know if
after they did any reservations, if that changed or ramped
up the activity for the folks that lived there and
patrons that go there to eat. So yeah, let's talk

(35:25):
about the Old Mill restaurant, all right.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
It is one of the most photographed mills in America
because it's right off the main road in Little Pigeon
River in Pigeon Forge, and it's currently really hard to
get to because the bridge to it got hammered in
the storms last year and they're having to restore it. Actually,
where we took our picture for the book, you can't

(35:52):
get to right now, but it was again back in
the way back machines. It was settled in the seventeen
hundreds that area and named Mordecai Lewis and his grandson
built the big mill right there on the river, and
it's just iconic. It's one of those just great old mills.

(36:13):
And then they built the forge right there. It was
actually one of the family members there they built the forge,
and that's where the town Pigeon Forge gets its name.
And these two families that built the mill and built
the forge, they founded the town and they the old
mill basically wound up in the Trotter family years later,

(36:35):
pretty much during the Civil War, and famously up in
the attic area, Second Florida. That's where he treated the
Union people who were hurt in the Civil War. And
this was a Confederate state, even though, like I said,
both sides really didn't want anything to do with it. It
was that was this guy was. That was his way

(36:58):
of helping. He was a Union sympathizer. And the mill
got damaged over and over again by storms. So it's
not the old original seventeen hundreds mill. It's been rebuilt
several times right now. It was rebuilt in the nineteen thirties,
so it's still close to one hundred years old, and

(37:21):
it's the grinding stone there is the last remaining piece
of the original building. So very cool. It was. Man,
the restaurant there is wonderful. They've got a lot of
great food Erica. It was what was It was kind
of like fancy cracker barrel, right, it's like a.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Fancy cracker barrel. But they give you free banana nut
muffins with breakfast and corn fritters with flunch or dinner.
So you never pass up free corn fritters.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Seriously, no, that's like passing up free boiled peanuts. It
just doesn't happen. Now there have we have been seen
a couple of figures there. One of my favorites that
we pretty much identified him because he wears an apron
and walks through the guest area and he is almost solid.

(38:14):
People sometimes think he is a some guy just working there,
but he looks a little disheveled and pretty much we've
got pictures of this guy and people say, oh, yeah,
that's him. And it was a guy named Douglas Ferguson
who is a potter and built play pots and stuff,
and he had a shop just across the way. It

(38:37):
was his studio, and he would come to the mill
to grab clay. So that's what we think keeps coming
back and forth to the place. And then there's the
scary one, and that we think that one's more of
a stone tape. Douglas Ferguson. He's just a repeater ghost,

(38:57):
just doing what he used to do. He doesn't seem
to interact with anybody or anything like that. But this
one became famous because in the middle of a wedding reception,
this guy just shows up, walks up the stairs and
right through the tables. The tables weren't even there because
they've been adjusted for the wedding and it's just this

(39:19):
black figure and again shadow person type thing, but everybody
smelled like sulfur and gunpowder, and then when he came up,
he just kind of poofed in red smoke. And this
was right around nineteen right around the year two thousand.

(39:40):
Crazy story. He's been seen a few times since, not
as impressive as that one with dozens of witnesses, but
people still see him there in The waitresses do not
like work in that top floor at all, which is.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Where Mark insisted that we sit. But I insisted that
we go to during daytime.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
Yes, I didn't tell her that the wedding was in
the middle of the day, so.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, no, Mark really does enjoy tricking me into places. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:15):
The guy who runs the doors there, his name is
Emmett and he's been there for over half a century
and he still runs the tours. So if you go there,
tell him hi.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
It's unique for a shadow figure or shadow being to
poof out and produce or be seen. I don't know
if they produce it that was the wrong word, but
to poof out and there's red smoke or red whatever
the hell it is before they go. That's interesting.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
Yeah, they usually just melt into the shadows or just appear.
This one. I like to think he's like Batman's bom
and now.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
Definitely a poltergeist.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Yeah, it's just Batman. It's okay. He's there to help you.
There probably markets at the point where whatever you say,
Eric is just going to do the opposite because she
already knows. By now you're like, I want to sit downstairs.
She's so we're going upstairs, is what you're saying. So

(41:20):
now you just need to start mixing it all up
so she doesn't know what's what and do the opposite
every time I hear you.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
Guys, right, I already get her occasionally with the reverse psychology.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
But yeah, yes, it's great when your partner does that.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
You know what it is, Erica. He just wants to
make sure. It's like muscle memory, just like working out.
If you don't use it, you lose it. So he
wants to make sure that your psychic sensitive abilities stay sharp.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Yes, yeah, no, that's absolutely what's I'm going to get
him back. Don't worry.

Speaker 4 (41:56):
It's kind of oh yeah, she's got things in store.
I still we went to just one place right there
is Alcatraz east On the island. Just I have to
mention this place because it's amazing, because Erica is miss
true crime, and that's what scares me. I don't. I'm
fine with ghosts, monsters, vampires, you name it. I'm good.

(42:18):
But serial killers that's a whole nother ballgame. And Alcatraz East,
which is right there. People look at it and say,
what the heck is this some sort of because it
looks like Alcatraz, But when you get inside, it is
actually a amazing collection. It's actually the John Walsh Collection
from the Old Prime Museum in Washington, d C. Before

(42:41):
they closed it. They moved it here, so it's got
amazing artifacts like Ted Bundy's car and the floorboards the
bloody floorboards of the cabin where Billy the Kid was
gunned down, and just incredible museum and probably one of
the most reasonably priced and pigeon forms. I highly recommend it.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Okay, I would actually love that too, Erica. I am
right there with you. I love true crime. Yep, sign
me up.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Yeah, No, it is really amazing. I will say you
have to prepare for the energy in there, but I
think going into that place, I'm prepared for it. I'm
just not going. It's very different for me than going
into haunted house and having a bunch of ghosts that

(43:31):
got thrown into a pit right stuff together.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, I can see that, and I can understand that.
But as much as we joke about, oh, let's trick
Erica going into certain places, there are certain times where
it would become too much for somebody like you. And
that is a true statement and a serious thing in
some occasions, because you can be physically affected, become ill,

(43:57):
and as mentioned in a funny way, but it's not funny,
is actually taking something home with you. So certain people
do have to be careful with things like that.

Speaker 4 (44:08):
Yeah, No, we joke a lot, but we treat it
very seriously. Yes, and we always we have cleansing stuff
we do. And then also we have good friends who
will help us quite a bit with that too.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Yes, Oh yeah, absolutely, guys.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
What if we discuss a little bit about the moon
eyed people.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Wow, we love the moon eyed people. It is one
of those things that, gosh, it's hard to describe to
people without sounding a little weird because it's so spread
out over the area from North Georgia all over the
smoke Ees, all over western North Carolina to eastern Tennessee.

(44:58):
This legend, it's not a legend according to the Cherokee.
It is history. And that's what you have to understand.
The Cherokee do have some mythology, they do have some
of that, but for them certain things are that's this
is reality. And we talked to Kathy Little John, probably

(45:18):
one of the greatest storytellers of the Cherokee, and then
we talked to some others who were also just this
is the way it is. And basically the moon eye
people were. They weren't like supernatural entities. They were real
people with very pale skin, sometimes with bearded faces, which

(45:44):
the natives didn't have. And they either had gray eyes
or blue eyes that were very large, and they were
all very short, with little round bodies, but their eyes
were so sensitive to the sun they could only come
out at night. And that's where they get the name

(46:06):
the moon eyed people. They full moons were even too
strong for these guys, and they built these low lying
forts because these things were like two or three feet tall.
And there's an amazing place in North Georgia called Fort
Mountain that we don't know who built this giant wall

(46:28):
of stone up there. That's only three feet high, and
it's on top of a mountain, almost like stone hinge
worthy mystery. It's very wild. And one of the Cherokee
chiefs up there talking about it that when one of
the presidents came to see it for the first time,
and this chief said, oh, yeah, it was this was

(46:50):
built by the moon eyed people. And then we went
to war with them, and we chased them into the caves.
And okay, I.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Wonder what two or three foot tall people did that
warranted going to war with them.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Yeah, And there's a famous description of them from around
the late seventeen hundreds where one of the botanists exploring
the ever the area is. I guess it was probably
Burton or Bartram, one of the two, and he wrote
that the Cherokee Dallas, that these people inhabited the land,

(47:29):
and the wretches they expelled. I love that quote, so
it's wow. And some people said they were albino, some
people thought that they were just they were white men
that came from across a great River. And that's when
we get the whole tie in with the Welsh prince

(47:53):
Prince Mattic, which is you want to talk about a
crazy legend. It's basically a Welsh guy who got kicked
out of Great Britain and he said fine, and he
grabbed his people and sailed westward. And if that's true
that he came here and founded people, he would have

(48:14):
beat leif Erickson because this would have been around the
eleven hundred something. It's wow. But yeah, I don't think
that's these guys, because when you talk about the moon
eyed people, they were very big headed, very big eyes,
and short and squat. And when you think about that,

(48:38):
and and what comes to mind, big eyes, big heads,
little small bodies. What do you think troll dolls?

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, little baby troll we have. We have
our own little people issues. Right in the forest of
the nation that people talk about. We have pill crawlers.
I don't know where was your mind going with that.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Some people say, hey, that sounds an awful lot like
the Grays because they would have had gray skin, dark eyes.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Oh my head, My mind wasn't even going there. Yeah,
that's interesting, that's very interesting.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
So if you go to Murphy, North Carolina, there is
the Museum of the Cherokee in this town, and it's
pretty much very close to the Tennessee border this museum,
but if you go there, they have tons of artifacts.
But downstairs in the basement, in a special cabinet, you

(49:39):
see what the Cherokee carved, an effigy of the moonlight people.
And if you look at that, I'll tell you that
looks like you're looking at somebody's early carving of the
roswell bodies. It's it's crazy now that Cherokee do have

(50:01):
their own little people, the Faye for them. They call
them the Cherokee little people or the deer folk. And
they even have basically red caps and that are mischievous.
And then they have some that are very happy and
help you and play with you. They play with children.

(50:21):
Of course, Erica knows the Fay playing with children probably
not a good thing.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
No, that is a terrible idea. But yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:31):
The Jerkee little people are more they're more supernatural. They
connect with the Ninaway, which is the upper beings, the
higher beings of the Cherokee, or angels we would call them,
and the little people are their earthly friends and stuff.
But yeah, the moon eyed people, I'm reminded of those

(50:52):
bogeymen up in West Virginia that were found in the
mind supposedly these wide eyed gollum looking things. So maybe
that's what they've evolved into after being chased into the
caves and the underground here. So there are tons of
caves in this area.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Ye, the hatles get them.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
What's interesting too. I mean we can go on a
deep dive of this. We're just talking smoky mountains. But
in Hawaii they had little people that were basically hunted
and killed off there. And then you go to Iceland
and they have the little people there and they swear
by them. So I'm just this could be race of

(51:31):
creatures people that are throughout the world. They've just been
hunted to extinction.

Speaker 4 (51:39):
And in Knoxville, they have this amazing theater called the
Tennessee Caverns and they have music events there and it's
not open for tours, but it's open for these events.
And one of the things they do is they show
movies in there. And in June of the I'm sorry,
and July of this year they're actually showing The Descent

(52:03):
in there. And I cannot wait to go. And I'm
gonna try to get Erica to come, but I don't
think she will, absolutely not.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
Yeah, a graveyard.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Again, Yeah, She's gonna feel that a mile away and
definitely will not want to go a mile deep the
second that you start looking into caves and things. And
if you read the Descent they watched the movie, courses
are two different things, even though they're same creatures. But yeah,
hadles and anything subterranean I find extremely fascinating what might

(52:38):
be going on under our feet. But being a spelunker
is on the nope list. Hard nope.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Yeah, good good.

Speaker 4 (52:47):
So we went and saw me.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, we'll just go look at true crime stuff above ground,
and the rest of these kookies can go and explore
caves and get stuck in them.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
Carrie and I went and saw weird Al Yankovic there
and it was amazing.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Oh that is cool, that's great, that's grue.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
No.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
I love the movie to sin. I don't hate on it.
I just I try to make the distinction that that
actually the guy claims that he has he didn't even
read Jeff Long's Descent book. Oh god, no one believes
that it just happens to be the exact same creature. Okay, buddy,
but I still love the movie.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
Okay, the movie and being shown there. Yeah, I'm all in.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Heck, yeah, that's a cool spot to do that. It's
just what is it called the Red Rocks out in Colorado,
That really cool music venue and stage built right into
the rock. It's a natural formation that is conducive for
such things. Wonderful. Okay, So, last, but certainly not least,
we are going to Gatlinburg, Tennessee and hitting up the

(53:46):
wayy Big Greenbrier Cemetery.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
Yeah, it's it's a little it's a little trip from Gatlinburg,
but that's where we put it in the book because
it's the closest place you can get to it. There's
a few fun trails off the main branch of Gallenberg.
Most people go to Gallenberg, they go see Ripley's, they
go see the tourist stuff. They go by fudge. They
get chased by bears that are sneaking into the fudge places.

(54:14):
But there's a couple of fun trails. There's a Roaring
Fork which has a great ghost story. There's the ferry House.
Erica loves the ferry House.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
I do love the ferry House. I enjoy the fae,
but I yes, they're easier to deal with as far
as I'm concerned.

Speaker 4 (54:33):
And the ferry house has nothing to do with ferries,
but it's pretty cool. But we go but it looks
like something to do with the fairies. But anyway, Yeah,
if you go to this area that it's called Little Greenbrier,
which is funny because it's actually this area is called Greenbrier.
The area on Cade's Cove side and where the alkmont

(54:55):
Land is, that's actually called Little Green Bar So it's
on the complete other side of the smoke. So it
can be very confusing. But the Whaley family had their
land here and they had they've been here a long
time again. Family served in a Revolutionary war, were granted
all this land and told hey, take it from the
Cherokee and it's yours. So of course they chased out

(55:17):
the Cherokee. They started farming this land. It wasn't as
smooth as like the Caidsco Valley area, and it was
a little more tree, but they were working on it.
And then of course National Park Service comes and says, oh,
you gotta leave, and so they were forced to leave,
and they moved just a little further away. And then

(55:39):
the Tennessee Valley Authority comes in and says, nope, you
got to leave. We're building a dam, and we needed
to power things. And they finally moved to another place
called oak Ridge, Low ways away, and then that land
got seized so that they could power more stuff for
the Manhattan Project, which everybody associates with White Sands. No,

(55:59):
it was all built here in Tennessee and North Carolina.
And yeah, so this family got kicked around a lot,
but their original cemetery is still there now. If you
go to that area, it's amazing the stuff in Kate's Cove.
There's a few cabins, there's those churches. This area has
a lot more. It's mostly foundations and stuff and a

(56:22):
lot of old chimneys and they've been preserved. And then
there's a couple long trails. They are not easy trails. People.
A lot of stuff in the Smokies are pretty easy trails.
These are not. But you will see so many remains
of these things, and lots of great waterfalls, so many

(56:44):
waterfalls along these trails. And you'll see the ruins at
Engine Creek, which is a steam engine that crashed here famously.
And the several ghosts are they we'll get into them
another time. They're in the book, So pick up the book.

(57:05):
But when you're walking down this hike, you'll come to
a harry called Porter's Creek Scenic Loop, and when you
go there you will see the wayy big Greenbrier cemetery.
It is impressive for an old cemetery. It's most these

(57:25):
when you see these little plots and family plots, they're
not as extensive as this one. And this one has
one of Erica's favorite type of ghosts. Right.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
Yes, it's a lady in white.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
Yep, and she's seen there quite a bit walking around.
But like my kid, Kelly would be so happy she
is not alone. She has a pet there.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
But that is a big stretch right there calling it
that a pet.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
It's a large black dog that is a ghostly black
dog that is supposedly guarding the cemetery, and that we
know of from European tradition, they call those grims, and
what they are not like the old TV show Grim

(58:24):
which Erica finally got to meet a couple of the
cast members the way, but that grims were very common
over in Europe and it was basically a custom when somebody.
Most cemeteries are founded when like the patriarch dies or
when the young soldier dies in the war and stuff

(58:47):
like that, and that comes from an old belief that
the first one buried in the cemetery has to protect
the cemetery, so the soldier stands on guard, the patriarch
watches out for the family for forever. But what they
decided was, that's the rough job. We need these guys
to go on to heaven, So why don't we just
kill a puppy and bury him first so there'll be

(59:09):
a garden.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
Why did you say it like that. That's not how
it goes.

Speaker 4 (59:14):
It's there's got a dog, yeah, poor sweet dog. And
but that ghost will be there, and that one is
supposed to be there with the lady in white, and
a lot of people go, oh, it's just a black bear,
because there are so many black bears, as we said,
in that area. But everybody says, at first they think

(59:36):
it's a bear, and then they realize it's a dog,
maybe a wolf. There are some wolves out there, not
a lot, but there are some. And when it would howl,
they said it sounded like a wolf, but it had
very deep red eyes and very sharp teeth. And then
it would again would just melt into the stone, so

(59:58):
like a shadow person, but a dog and yeah, it's
there's there's another cemetery nearby that the lady in White visits,
and that's if you just arrive along just a short
distance right at Greenborough Road, there's another trailhead. It's a
bit of a steep hike, but there's the Obe Cemetery

(01:00:19):
and there you will see Mary Waley's grave, who was
a little baby who died there in nineteen oh nine.
And then that lady in White comes there to visit
the baby. It's that's a long hikee for that ghost,
but it does it and people have seen it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
I know that it's limited by the same physical constraints
that we are.

Speaker 4 (01:00:43):
Yeah, good point. Good point. There's a lot of great
hikes off of that. There's a there's some special areas
that you can go to. I it's a beautiful area.
There's a lot more forested than Cade's Cove area, a
lot more hilly. But yeah, again, we got that weird
feeling there, Erica, Right, you got the chills all up

(01:01:04):
and down. You're like, yeah, okay, we should go, we
should go.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Yes, no, I agree, and something definitely doesn't want you there.

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I actually love stories of phantom black dogs, so it
is quite fitting to have one roaming a creepy cemetery.
And I didn't know that about burying killing a dog
and burying it because whatever you bury first will then
protect the graveyard. I was not aware of that until
I read that in the book.

Speaker 4 (01:01:37):
Yeah, they have to put them in cornerstones of churches
as well, just as when they built the church's let's
protect the church with a guardian spirit. And you think
the church wouldn't want anything to do with spirits and stuff,
but that goes way back to medieval times and probably
even earlier. Just that's when we have records of it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
That's fascinating. Yeah, there's a lot of good info in
the book, I have to say, and it's definitely a
fun trip. It's a great reads, all right, So talk
about eerie travels a little bit before you guys go
and let everybody know where to hear you guys chatting
and where to get the podcast. And then of course
the fact that The Dark Side of the Smoky Mountains

(01:02:16):
is available for pre order and let everybody know when
that comes out as well.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
The publication date is going to be August twenty third
of this year. But if you go to our website
eertravels dot com. You can see all of the events
and we have advanced copies that we will sign for you,
and Mark will dutifully put a wonderful bit of advice
on your travels, which is always good. And you can

(01:02:46):
find us basically YouTube anywhere, Spotify, Apple anywhere, podcasts are
you can find us.

Speaker 4 (01:02:55):
And yeah, eri travels dot com also has links to
all our socials and all that as they update as
social media is come and go. It's just easier just
go to our website and that'll have all the links.
We have a great discord that people chat in. We've
got Apple etch and which support there. We've got paranormal
facts posted all the time. We've got a nice little

(01:03:18):
community there. We've got our Patreon of course, because you
got we got to keep the show on the road
and got to have fun. But you can find our
podcast Spotify, iTunes, all the fun places, and we're on
a couple times a week, so we appreciate if you
show up.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Thank you guys for coming back on for part two,
and I will have Mark and Erica back once again
for the part three, which will be the final culmination
of our chats for this book and which you already know.
I'm looking forward to the next book you guys are
working on right now.

Speaker 6 (01:03:54):
Yay.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
But thanks again and I look forward to our next converse.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Absolutely, thank you for having us, Shannon. It's always wonderful.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
And always a pleasure and thank you phrases. We love
you all. I'll keep coming as long as you guys
keep wanting me.

Speaker 5 (01:04:14):
Well, I'm sorry. So I was given the name by
my parents. My business, I've been such a college. I've
done these things as my profession. I produce a little box.
Budhi says, forget it, that's not that's someone your story,
that's all gone, that's all possible. I want to see
this really you who you are?

Speaker 7 (01:04:32):
Now nobody knows who that is because we don't know
ourselves except for listening to our egos and consulting on them.
But then that's a really when that again, it's as
beast this question, well are you? That is to mean,

(01:04:56):
we shall see how they play with this example by
the co get you to come out of the show.

Speaker 5 (01:05:04):
I'm find out.

Speaker 8 (01:05:12):
Let's steps, its speaks, puss puss pass.

Speaker 5 (01:06:57):
Example. They will say.

Speaker 9 (01:07:00):
No, we don't believe literally if in reincarnation that after
your funeral to grow, you will suddenly become somebody different.

Speaker 5 (01:07:10):
The mean somewhere else, they will say. Reincarnation means this
that if you sitting here now are really convinced that
you're the same.

Speaker 7 (01:07:19):
Person boarding at the door half an hour ago, you'll
be reincarnated if you are liberate with remans now that
you're done.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
The past hasn't been at.

Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
The future doesn't existence. There is only the present. That's
the only amenian that there is. The zen masters will
get in this way in the same.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
String does not become something.

Speaker 5 (01:07:47):
First there is something, and.

Speaker 9 (01:07:49):
Then there is streing.

Speaker 6 (01:08:22):
It's it's, it's, it's, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:09:41):
T s. That's the same idea.

Speaker 9 (01:09:45):
Where he says, when you settle down in the train
to read your newspapers and you're not the same person,
uh the platform. If you think you are, you are
linking your moments doesn't change. And this is what binds
the wheel both when you know that every moment which

(01:10:10):
you are is the only moment. This comes into the
air and the master will.

Speaker 5 (01:10:14):
Say to somebody, I cannot have a walk across the
room and it can be back, and he says, where
are your foot They've gone so Where are you? Who
are you? When we are asked who we are, we
usually give a kind of recitation of an instrum string
for instence