iNTO THE FRAY 513: Pascagoula Uncovered

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The infinite complaces people went to and pro fears about
their little affairs, serene in the assurance of their dominion
over this small binning fragment of solar driftwood, which, by
chance or design, man has inherited out of the dark
mystery of time and face.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
On this episode of Into the Fray, I welcome Philip
Mantle on with me finally, really honestly right Philip, But
he is a veteran uk UFO researcher, a lecturer, broadcaster,
and publisher. He has his own publishing house. It is
called Flying disc Press. Go to Flyingdiscpress dot com to

(01:22):
check out all of his titles. But we are going
to talk today about his latest release, which is titled
Pasca Goula Uncovered Witnesses, Files and Audio Tapes. And just
really quickly, Philip, before I officially say hello to you
and let you finally speak, I wanted to bring up
a couple of your other titles that are in relation

(01:44):
to this case, which obviously you got bit by quite
the Pascagoula bug, as it seemed. But in twenty eighteen
Philip release Pascagoula The Closest Encounter, and then twenty twenty
three was Beyond Reasonable Doubt twenty twenty four, Pascagoula, nineteen
seventy three, The Hypnosis, Transcripts and honorable mentions for other

(02:09):
books that he himself has either authored or co authored
with someone else without consent, Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind,
Russia's USO Secrets, and UFRE excuse me, UFO Landing's UK,
just to name a few. So Philip, welcome on into
the Fray.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, good evening, Shannon. Nice to speak to you at
last week. We've tried several times, but now we've managed it.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
It is happening, And as I said, I'm like I
have several things recording just in case because I don't
want to screw this one up. So no, I am
so pleased to be finally speaking to you, Philip. I mean,
you have been someone that I have been aware of
long before I even started podcasting at all. So I'm
very happy to be speaking with you.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
You're making me sound very old, Shunnon.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
But no, not at all, not at all. I've just
I've been such a huge nerd for this stuff for
a long time, and now I'm lucky enough to be
speaking to people that I hold in high regarding you
were one of them, So Philip I figured that, I mean,
most people most likely will maybe have a guess as
to how you got bit by the uf Let's start

(03:17):
with a UFO bug first. You know that you probably
have explained this many times on many A shows, but
I'm going to make you do it once more. If
people are not familiar with you, how did you get
your start in UFOs?

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, I'm no problem with that, Shannon. I mean, as
a young fellow at high school, I had several interests.
One was astronomy in general, the other was the space program.
The top of the list was the paranormal. And when
I used to live with my parents, it was quite
fortunate that my best friend's grandmother lived the opposite side

(03:55):
of the road and she used to go to a
local Spiritualist church, so I went along with her a
few times. I found it fascinating, even if I didn't
agree with, you know, with a lot that was said.
But I remember reading one book on astronomy. I can't
remember the title, but it had one chapter in it

(04:16):
on UFOs. Pretty dismissive, to be honest, but that piqued
my interest. So I left high school in nineteen seventy four,
I didn't really know what to do with myself, had
several jobs, and then in nineteen seventy eight, over the
winter into nineteen seventy nine, a friend and I worked

(04:40):
in West Germany and we couldn't speak a word of
the language. I mean, not a word. We're just glad
that beer was the same in both languages, you know.
But I found my mom and said, could you send
me some books to read? Mom, I didn't specify what.
So this box arrived and much to my amazement, it

(05:01):
was a box of paperback books all about ufones. So
I after work on an evening I would sit down
and read these when it came home. In nineteen seventy nine,
and then went to see the movie Close Encounters, which
increased my interest. And I used to live about five
miles outside of the city of Leeds in West Yorkshire.

(05:24):
It used to publish an evening newspaper and still does.
It's called the Yorkshire Evening Post. On my aunt to
live around the corner. She knew of my increased interest
in this subject. You brought the newspaper around one evening
and there was a small advertisement in it and it
said come in this Sunday the first meeting of the

(05:46):
Yorkshire UFO Society in Leeds. So that was for me.
In those days here in the UK on a Sunday
everything used to close. I didn't drive, so I got
a court a bus inter Leeds, found this location, went in.
There are lots of rooms inside, but I could hear
some voices from one room, so that must be it.

(06:08):
In I went and it was two brothers, Graham and
Mark Birdsell. They'd set up the Yorkshire UFO Society. They
put on a presentation which made it quite clear they'd
already been involved a few years themselves. And for me
there was a table full of books, so you know,
UFO books were hard to come by, so I was

(06:30):
grateful for that. I joined the Yorks UFO Society there
and I think my membership for the year was about
two pounds three dollars. And that was it, Shannon. You know,
I felt as if I'd found my niche in life. Naively,
I thought, I'll read a few books, maybe write a

(06:50):
few letters, and I'll have all the answers. And of
course here I am, you know, forty plus years later,
still still asking questions. We don't have all the answers.
That's how I began, as simple as that.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Yeah, it's funny how that works. You get in thinking
I'm gonna figure some things out here, and you just
end up with many, many, many more questions as time
goes on.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
I mean absolutely, I mean you know, I was, like
I said, I was very naive. I thought, you know,
I'll read a number of these books and it'll all
fall into place, surely, But it didn't. And here I
am all these years later.

Speaker 4 (07:30):
Philip.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Have you had your own sighting of any kind or
any paranormal experience?

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean UFO wise. When I joined the
Yorkshire UFO Society, we were in West Yorkshire. Our county
used to be one big one but they split it
up into North, South and East and West. And in
North Yorkshire we have the Yorkshire Dale's National Park, very

(07:56):
beautiful part of the country. And in a small was
around the small market town of Skipton that there was
a little village called Carlton and above it was simply
Carlton Moore. And for whatever reason, Shannon, we got a
lot of sightings coming out of this area in and
around Skipton. So one evening I still didn't drive Graham

(08:19):
Burstall used to rang me up and said you fancy
going to Carlton Moore for an hour? It was a
lovely evening, So yeah, he can't pick me up. Off
we goes and we were still there it would have
been about midnight, one o'clock in the morning, talking about
the football and you know whatever. And there are no
dwellings on the mod It's laid out in front of
you where we were parked. It's all heather, so there's

(08:43):
no livestock it was. It was therefore game birds, you know,
grouse and pheasant partries, that kind of thing right in
the distance, dislike appeared. I remember Graham looking at me,
Me looking at him, say, well, there is no buildings there.
Where does that come from? So we jumped in the
car and Graham used to drive like a maniac anyway, Shannon.

(09:07):
So we're screaming across the mall in pitch darkness, and
all the fields there are surrounded by what we call
dry stone walls. And I'm looking out of the driver's seat,
the driver's side, and I don't know whether it was
a gate that was open on the wall was damaged,
but I could see down a little valley and there
was this. The only thing, the only way I can

(09:29):
describe it is like a cartwheel of colored lights in
the sky. And I don't mean a little, you know,
dot in the distance, I mean right in your face.
I screamed at Graham, who stopped, and by the time
we got out of the car and scrambled over the wall,
there was nothing in sight. And Graham was as mad

(09:50):
as help because he hadn't seen it. Of course, so
we took a role that circumnavigates the morning. We went
all the way around and didn't see anything else. Whatever
the hell it was, Shannon, I have no idea. And
this was in nineteen eighty one. Jump forward to July
the twenty third, nineteen eighty four. I finished work. I

(10:11):
used to work in a factory. I finished work at
ten o'clock in the evening. I'm driving at this point.
I come out of the industrial straight and it's estate
and it's just one straight road all the way home,
about two and a half miles. And I could see
this light in the sky straight away and knew it
shouldn't be there. And I knew a bit about astronomy.
I knew the roots of the you know, the aircraft

(10:32):
that used to fly into Leeds. So set off. About
halfway home. There was a layby when I could pull
in and this thing was still there, and I lined
it up with a lamp posts. It seemed to be
sit pretty stationary. So set off again. And I got
to a stage where I'm on the hill that we

(10:53):
have the city of Leeds in the valley below us.
And there was a hill to the right and this
thing is a you didn't have to cranky neck, you
could see it. It was two lights next to each other.
The right hand one was slightly larger. Again, there weren't
little dots of light. They were quite large, but like
a pearly white, you know, and off off off white.

(11:15):
I'm standing there watching it, and there's there's traffic going
buy me and then puff they were gone. They didn't
go up, down, left or right. They were gone. So
I only lived around the corner. I drove around home.
I phoned my colleagues at the yorkshre UFOs, so I
told them what I'd seen. I grabbed my camera and
my binoculars, went back out and stood there for an hour,

(11:37):
but didn't see anything again. But all belown to me
at that point. We had lots of sidings coming in
that night from all around the area, so they were
that's you would class them as probably as the UFO
side of things paranormal wise. I don't know if this fits,
but since nineteen ninety nine, I've been had a problem

(11:59):
with a heart condition. In nineteen ninety nine, I had
a near fatal heart attack. In two thousand and nine,
I was diagnosed with heart failure that nearly killed me
a few times as well. In twenty sixteen, i'd been
working during the day. I had to finish working in

(12:20):
the factory because of my health and now worked for
a bank in Leeds. Drove home. I'm cooking the dinner
at home for me and my wife and in the
kitchen and it was a bit like a soap opular
kind of heart problem. My heart just sped up like
a buzz so I mean literally, I now had a
pacemaker fitted with a d FIB. I put my hand

(12:43):
on my chest. I thought, this is it, I'm finished,
but one hand on the kitchen top, my knees buckled,
and then the d fib part of my pacemaker fired. Wam,
first time I had ever done that, like I being
kicked by Mumal. But it reset my heart, you know,

(13:04):
and I staggered into the living room. My wife called
for the ambulance, and even sitting there, Shannon, I can
remember seeing all this happen. But I'm at the other
end of the kitchen, up by the ceiling, looking down
on it, totally dispassionate, no emotion if I'm watching some

(13:25):
boring movie, and I could see this happening. So whether
you call that a near death experience or whatever, I'm
not sure. But I remembered it instantly, you know, even
before the paramedics arrived and the chipped me off to hospital.
And you know, make of it what you will.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Oh, that's pretty incredible. So of course that you weren't
hooked up to anything at that time, it was before
the paramedics got there. But I suppose the assumption is
that you had in fact gone to quote unquote another place.
Who are been in between the living and the dead somehow,
and you got to watch this whole thing that must
be quite sobering.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
It was. I mean, I remembered it instantly because my
wife had filmed for the paramedics and sat on the
cety waiting for them to arrive. And I can see
it in front of me now, Shannon, as clear as day.
What happened. I have no idea. I can only retell
what I experienced and what I remembered, and I've told

(14:29):
several people about it. You know, I don't know what
it was. I was aware of near death experience, having
an interest in the paranormal, but never expected anything like this.
And thankfully my heart's not bothered me since I've had
other medical problems, but no more heart problem since then.
And a long way that.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Last, what about the crafts that you saw, Philip, what
is your especially after all these years and all of
the cases that you you have looked into. What was
your initial reaction to those craft that they were something
conventional that we had come up with, or that it
was they were something off planet.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Well, I don't know. I mean the ones we saw,
the one that the big cartwheel thing were saw on
cal To More. I can't explain it, Shan, because there
is nothing there. You know that it is just moorland.
There was no dwellings, nothing. We've been there several times.
We'd interviewed a couple of there, the farmers nearby. We'd

(15:34):
seen things and this was not a little dot in
the sky. This is right in your face. And unfortunately,
Graham was I had to concentrate on driving down the
road because it was pitch black. There's no one, there's
no lighting up there. What the hell it was? I
have no idea that the thing I saw back in
in nineteen eighty four over an area of South Leeds.

(15:58):
I'm pretty sure there's an next eplanation for that, although
I don't really know what it is, because it was
seen by a lot of people and it seemed to
be around the area for a couple of hours, and
we interviewed people. We've got reports from people right from
out on the east coast of the UK right across

(16:18):
to where I was, a bit further than it seemed
to be going backwards the same route over about a
two hour period. And on my colleague Graham Bertel, who
sadly no longer with us, he thought it might have
been a police helicopter because at that point in time
there was a lot of industrial strife here in Yorkshire

(16:44):
and surrounding counties. The coal miners were on strike. It's
a well known historical thing that happened here. But where
I saw this thing, there were no coal mines, so
you know, I don't know. I think there may be
a rational explanation that for the other one up on
the moors. I don't know, and I don't suppose I

(17:05):
have a will.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Is the Yorkshire UFO Society still around to this.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Day, No, it's it's long gone. I mean I was
with them for about seven or eight years, and then
I moved on to the British UFO Research Association, which
was a national organization. Graham Mark, of course, went on
to edit and publish UFO Magazine, which was a newsstand

(17:34):
publication here in the UK, a very successful one and
it only ended not that many years back when sadly
Graham passed away, you know, out of the blue, and
the magazine died with him. So we used to in
those days at the Orkshire UFO Society. We started with
our own newsletter which we used to handprint with a

(17:58):
machine called gastepner and you used to wind it around.
And then we moved on to the UFOs Journal, where
we actually bought a little printing machine and we used
to in our own little magazine. And so UFO Magazine
had an infancy in those two publications, so it didn't

(18:20):
sort of come out of the blue, and it was
very successful. You know, Graham was very well known. Mark
was more on the research side in the background. Mark
is still alive, but he has no more interest in
the subjects. And like I said, the magazine died with Graham. Unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
I bet you have several copies that you've hung on
to in church to this day.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I do have, well, I did have some copies, and
because I've been so ill, all of my paper files
are now with David Marler in Albuquerque. David is the
director of the National UFO Historical Records Center, and I've seen,
you know, little archives end up in the trash, Shannon,

(19:08):
which is tragic. So when I found out about David
and what he was working on, I offered to donate
all my paper files and he has the lot. They're
all there just while people are listening. You know, if
you've got any archive of any description, please don't let
it end up in the trash. There are several places

(19:31):
that will take it. David is just one of them.
So he's got all my and I found some of
the old magazines just recently as well, Shannon. I've when
I shipped the material out to David. I'm mister box
and I found it while clearing out the garads. Thankfully
it was all dry and safe. So he's literally got
them in the last few weeks. And some of them
are those hand printed publications we did way back in

(19:53):
the nineteen eighties, a maximum of fifty copies of each
whatever done, so they are few and far between, shall
we say.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
I think I recall a post that either David put
up or you put up. I'm pretty sure it was
you guys have two vehicles pulled up next to each
other and just boxes in the back of the vehicles,
and I think that that was that exchange. If I'm
not mistaken, it may well have been.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
But David has had some other donations from some of
which are very well known. Some of that. Yeah, but
the archive there is forever growing, and I wish him
every success.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
So important to do that. As you say, I mean,
if you think that something is just silly and should
go in the trash, nothing of that's where it should
ever go in the trash, because it's lost forever exactly.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
And I've seen it happen, you know, so I made
sure it didn't happen with my modest little archive.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
So Philip, before we go into, you know, at least
a snapshot as much as you want to go into
the actual Pasca Gooula incident for those not familiar with it,
I would like you to intro before you get into that,
how you became essentially the go to person who has

(21:15):
written the most about and knows the most about, in
my opinion, the Pasca Gooula incident. How did that happen?
And then let's get into the actual incident itself and
some of the various information that's come out over the
last couple of years.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, I mean back in the nineteen eighties I read
about the Pasca Gooula case in a magazine here and
I was always struck by the peculiarity of the creatures
that were seen that night. I always stuck in my head.
When I moved on to the British UFO Research Association,
one of the many things that I did for them

(21:51):
was their conference organizer, and in the early nineties, one year,
via a colleague of mine, we actually had an agreement
with Charlie Hickson to come and speak here in the UK.
Unfortunately he wasn't able to make it, so we never
got him here. So after I took Hill in twenty sixteen,

(22:14):
I had just started Flying dis Press a colleague of
mind by the name of John Hanson, who was a
retired police detective. John had already started his own publishing
and it's called Haunted Skies, and I'd advise anyone to
have a look at what John's produced. So my idea was,

(22:37):
I'll do a little bit of this and in seven
or eight years time, when I retire, I'll get stuck
into it. Because I took Hill, I got the chance
to take early retirement. So round about the twenty seventeen mark,
I realized that I didn't have a copy of the
book that Charlie Hickson had co author with a chap

(23:00):
called Billiam Mendes. It came out in nineteen eighty three,
and by the looks of it online, it didn't sell
a lot of copies because the occasional book that came
up for sale was quite costly. But anyway, I bought
one and I thought I'd like to get the rights
to republish this book, which I managed to do. Now

(23:22):
I knew Charlie had passed away in twenty eleven, but
I wasn't sure about Calvin. I couldn't find anything after
twenty thirteen. I couldn't find any obituary, so I assumed
he was alive. My idea was, if I could just
get an interview with him and add an extra chapter
to this book, you know, an update, so to speak.

(23:45):
Took me about three months, but I finally managed to
get a hold of him and I got his phone number.
When I spoke to him, he was very nice, Shannon,
you know, very polite. It was clear to me he
didn't want to tell me anything. But what I didn't
know in the background, just a few weeks before I

(24:06):
phoned him, he'd been to a funeral of a friend
and as he's coming out of the funeral home, there
was a book of condolence and he signed it Calvin Parker.
The people coming behind him saw his name and you
could see the wink wink, nodge nudge, you know, and
he thought that was very disrespectful, and of course they

(24:29):
knew it was the alien man. Now. Calvin's wife, Weynette,
was with him. She'd been with him right since the
incident happened in nineteen seventy three, and she said, well,
why don't why don't you write a book, tell everybody
your story, and then everybody will know. And he said, yes, Darling,
you know, of course I will. I had no intention

(24:50):
of writing any book, Shannon, So I think it was
out of the second or third phone call I had
with him. He mentioned this to me and I said, well,
why won't you give me an interview? He said, well,
every time I'm interviewed, he said, in the past, the
journalist would, would you know, mix the story up on
purpose and say something stupid, said the world. Don't you

(25:13):
write a book? I said, I'll tell you what. I
will provide you with a contract so that we can't
publish anything until you say so. If you're not happy
with anything, will change it. And that's what we agreed.
And even the spelling errors and the typos, Calvin wouldn't
let me change. And that way, he said, I want

(25:38):
people to know who I am, not just what happened
to him and Charlie. So in twenty eighteen, you know, Pascagoula,
the closest encounter by Calvin Parker came out and we
were up and running chain and that's that's how it started.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
I think that was so smart for you to say
that to him right out of the game, like, listen,
you will have the editorial rights. Whatever you want to
keep in, you keep in. And I am not going
to change your story, because that is what tends to happen,
especially in the more sensational ones like they, which is
astonishing to me because to add anything just seems silly anyway,

(26:17):
because the stories themselves as they are are fascinating.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Oh absolutely, I agree with you. And Calvin and I
became good friends and no matter what I did, I mean,
Calvin went on to speak at confidences, appear on TV,
et cetera, et cetera. I wouldn't do anything without Calvin's approval,
and he said, you don't have to ask me anymore, Philip,

(26:43):
I said, no, I do, Calvin, because at the end
of the day, this is not my story. It's yours
or yours and Charlie, Sally, Charlie is no longer here
to tell it. So you decide, you know, you get
a conferencing fight. You don't have to go if you
don't want to. You know, if you want to, then fine,
same with a TV appearance. If you don't want to

(27:04):
do it, don't do it. There's even a screenplay written
about Calvin and Charlie's experience, and I said to him,
you have to remember this is entertainment and it may
not be one hundred percent accurate if it ever gets made.
So either do it or don't, but don't complain if

(27:25):
they do make it and it's not one hundred percent accurate,
or just making him away Shannon of how things worked,
and I wouldn't do anything without Calvin say so, and
we stuck to that all the way through until they
passed away.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Did that ever get made that particular project.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Not yet. I spoke to the producer not that long ago,
and they have a director on board, and he said
it was finishing up a moving now and they said,
we hope to have some news in in the in
the fall, as you say, later this year in the autumn.

(28:05):
So I'm hoping we might have some some some information
or some movement on it later this year. It was
written in conjunction with Calvin. It's two professional screenwriters that
have written it, and they would be forever checking the facts.
I've read it. Ah, it's pretty good that you know

(28:29):
it's not one hundred percent accurate and and the there's
reasons for that. Shannon, you know, but it's it's it's
as bad as accurate as I think you're gonna get.
But I just keep my fingers crossed. We will hope it.
I used to pull Calvin's you know, pull is make
a bit of fun out of him. I say, I'll

(28:50):
see you on the red carpet in your tuxedo, you know,
and he says, that's okay, as long as I can
wear my fishing cap, you know. So fingers cross and
it is very well written, I have to say. And
we'll see well, fingers crossed.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Well before we start talking about your latest released, Pasca
Goula Uncovered. For those that do not know, can you
talk about the incident itself?

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah? Absolutely, So we go back in time to October
the eleventh, nineteen seventy three. Now Calvin was eighteen, almost
nineteen at that point. He didn't live in Pascagoula. He
lived in a place called Laurel in Mississippi. I think
it's a good one hundred and fifty miles from Pasca Goula.

(29:42):
It got engaged to his childhood sweetheart, Waynette, and they
were getting married the following month in November, and Calvin
was working two or three jobs, you know, to make
some money, and why next as I never actually see you,
you're at work all the time. Now, the Parker family

(30:02):
had grown up with the Hickson family and Charlie was
a friend of Calvin's dad. So Calvin's father said, why
are you're in Charlie. He's a foreman at the shipyard
out pastagool Away. He might be able to get you
a regular job. So he did, and Charlie says, yeah,

(30:24):
we're hiring now. And Calvin was a welder, so he
got him a job. What the idea was, Shannon, is
that Calvin would lodge with Charlie Monday to Friday, go
home on a weekend. It all went well, to get
married and then maybe look for their own place to
live out there. So October the eleventh, nineteen seventy three,

(30:48):
was Calvin's first day working in the shipyard and he
didn't know the area, of course, you know, he didn't
live there. So they were working that day. Calvin had
bought a new car, I know the name of it.
It's a Hornet Rambler. It was bright yellow and he
was driving. So they're going home at night, him and Charlie,

(31:11):
and it was Charlie said, you want, you know, you
want to do some fishing tonight. So both guys love
to fish. They were fishing mad and says yeah, great.
They go home, have a bite two week, grab the
fishing tackle, buy some bait on the way, and Charlie
is telling Calvin where to go. So this wasn't an
out of the way sport Shannon and the area in question,

(31:34):
down by the Pascagoula River was a bit run down,
but it wasn't in the middle of a swamp or
anything like that. So they're driving in. They pass the
car that's already parked up. There's a no entry sign
and Calvin remarks on this, and Charlie said, don't worry
about it. So I come here all the time. So

(31:54):
they part the car, go to one spot. They're absolutely
plagued by by insects, so they moved to another spots
an old pier on a little shipyard that has long
since closed. So they sat on the edge with their
rods in the water. And the Pascagoula River also has

(32:14):
another name. It's called the Singing River. And they heard
this little buzzing sound and then from behind them these
blue lights come go out across the water, and Calvin thinks,
oh boy, we're gonna get arrested for trespassing. You know,
we shouldn't have ignored that no entry side. He thinks

(32:35):
this is the police. So they both turn around, and
of course it's not the police. There is an oval
shaped object descending. It's got two big lights on the
left hand side. It stops about eighteen inches two feet
off the ground on the right hand side and opening appiers,

(32:57):
and the light that comes out of it is absolutely dazzling.
Both men had to shield their eyes. Out of this
opening come three humanoid figures. Again. They never touched the ground,
They moved about eighteen inches above it. Calvin described them
as being about five feet five feet four in height,

(33:22):
bulky looking. They had a bulky head but no neck.
They had pointed protrusions out of the side of the
head and one out of the front. Their arms were long,
they didn't have fingers. They were like mittens or pincers.
The legs were wedged together. The legs never moved, and
their skin, if that's what it was, was like a

(33:44):
gray but they described it as been wrinkly, like that
of an elephant. Two got out of Charlie, and this
is important, but he felt a pinch on his forearm.
One got old of Calvin and they said, we were
instantly frozen, couldn't move, and it felt like he'd been

(34:05):
given an injection because the fear that had been experienced.
He went The only thing he could move, Shanon was
his eyes. They were wolf taken through this opening. Charlie
went to the right, Calvin to the left. Calvin said
he was placed on a transparent table at an angle.
This big, ugly creature, as he called it, seemed to

(34:29):
back off and stand still, and he said, this thing
came out of the ceiling. You know the walls were
this light came out of the walls, but no light fittings.
Calvin said, it came out of the paint. And this thing,
about the size of a deck of cards, with no
wires or anything, came out of the ceiling, stopped in
front of his face and went around him, making a

(34:50):
clicking noise, and it was gone back up to where
it had come from. Then Calvin sensed there was something behind.

Speaker 4 (34:58):
Him, and a female creature appeared looked pretty much human,
said the only real difference was that her middle fingers
were extremely.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
Long and I asked him to describe her, and he said,
the only way I can describe it. He said, if
he saw this young lady in a bar, you buy
a drink. You know. She was pretty, she was attractive.
And she opened his mouth and she put her fingers
down his mouth, and he heard this sound in his head.
His voice said, we're not going to hurt you. His

(35:34):
lower clothing was removed, along with his shoes and his socks,
and he says something was This is also an important part.
Said something was stuck in his foot underneath and it
felt like it was drawing his blood out and replacing
it with something else. So it was put his clothes

(35:56):
back on him. Managed to get free. He got hold
of this woman around the neck and she just pointed
to the big guy, and he got old of Calvin,
and instantly he was frozen again. He was placed back
outside on the pier. Then Charlie came and Charlie shook Calvin.
Charlie said Calvin was stood there with his arms out.

(36:19):
Charlie described going into this room if that's what it was,
and he was suspended. He wasn't putting any table or anything.
He was just hanging in the air and this thing
came out in front of him, not from the ceiling.
It was about the size of a basketball, and he

(36:40):
said it looked like a big eye. And he didn't
go around his head like Calvins, and it went around
him from head to foot, around and around and around,
then went back in. He never saw any female and
he was downplaced back outside. He had wobbly legs. He
saw Calvin and he shook it. You're right, son, you're right.

(37:01):
And they both turned around with this thing when zip
banged gone, you know, in an instant. So they deliberated.
I mean both guys were fighting stiff, Shannon, I mean
absolutely fright, more so Calvin because Charlie had was a
veteran of the Korean War. He's been in the US Army,

(37:25):
involved in some quite heavy fighting during in Korea. And
the decision was we're not going to tell anybody. They
will think we are nuts. Calvin was also worried if
if this gets out, I'm supposed to get married next month.
There's no way his Wayne's father gonna let this knockcase

(37:46):
marry is his daughter, you know. So they head back
to the car. As the approached the car, Charlie opens
the passenger side and all the glass falls out of
the window. Calvin gets in the car. Bernie, mind, this
is brand new. It's a brand new Hornet Rambler, and

(38:08):
it wouldn't start, he said. He said it took him
about twenty attempts to get it started. So they set
off to go home. En route, Charlie has a change
of heart. He said, we've got to tell somebody. He said,
what if these things come back and do this to
somebody else, but if it's an invasion. So Calvin reluctantly

(38:31):
agrees on one condition, he said, I'm not going to
tell anybody what happened to me. I'll just say when
I saw the things come out of the doorway, I
passed out and I can't remember anything. So Charlie could
see what a state Calvin was in. I mean, he
was shaking like a leap So he agreed. So they

(38:52):
pulled in a local convenience store. He was a payphone
and outside of pastor Google about thirty miles I think
it is is KEYSLERD Air Force Base. So Charlie, being
a military veteran, thought that's the right place to form.
He ran KEYSLERD Air Force base. They just said, we're
not interested in UFOs anymore, ring your local authorities. At

(39:16):
this point, Calvin sat in the cars screaming blue murder
at Charlie to forget it, let's go home, but he
said no, so he if They formed the police, and
they passed them through to Jackson County Charff's department and
they said stay there, we'll come get you. So they

(39:37):
sent us car out. They did a little sobrietary test first,
and then they escorted them into town. The man in
charge was Shaddy Fred Diamond, with his deputy at Glenn Ryder.
They interviewed both men separately and they gave him a
real warning Shannon. He said, is this some kind of
you know, redneck start? You guys are going to be

(40:00):
in big troll. They then put them in a room
together and the deputy said, I'm just stepping out to
get some coffee. It won't be a moment. And there
was a table in there, a desk, and he gone
in the desk of the deputy. Callie and Charming had
no idea what he was doing. He came back a
few minutes later, went in the desk and what happened

(40:21):
He switched the tape recorder on. They were pretty sure
that when they were left alone, they'd be laughing and
joking about this stant they'd pulled. Of course, when they
played it back, there was nothing like that on it.
These guys are still talking about what had happened to them.
Calvin said, I've got to get something from our nerves.

(40:41):
Charlie didn't know what to do. So at that point
the law enforcement officers, their attitude towards them tended to
change a little bit, and they said, yet and go on.
There's nothing we can do. So they said, look, you know,
just don't tell anybody. Charlie and Calvin please with them
not to tell anyone so we want so they went on.

(41:05):
The following morning, they got up to go to work.
As they're driving in, they noticed as a few extra cars.
They've only been there a short round. They summoned to
the boss's office and he said, what the hell have
you two been doing? He said, the telephones won't stop rigging.
We've got journalists from here, there and everywhere. I wanted

(41:27):
to speak to you. So they told the boss what
had happened. The sheriff was there. He took them to
the Singing River Hospital they had a quick check up.
Everything was fine, and somebody, I think it may have
been the sheriff, said what about radiation? Well, the hospital

(41:48):
couldn't check for that. So the sheriff ran keeps the
air Force base explain what was going on, and there's yeah,
we can check for that. Okay, I'm coming out there now.
All they were taken to Keeslin Air Force Base, the
very place that had given them the you know, the
elbow the night before. And Calvin told me said, they

(42:11):
were that they're waiting for us, you know, guys in
hazmat suits. They ran the detector over them and it
was fine, and they said, guys, why are you here?
Why didn't you come in and tell us what happened
last night? So they did and the story was out.
And the following day Dr James Harder from the Aerial

(42:31):
Phenomena Research Organization arrived and the Close Encounters man himself,
Dr Allen Heinek arrived. They both of them interviewed Charlie
and Calvin. They listened to the secret tape. Chalie Calvin
was still oblivious to that. Dr hard had tried to
put both of them onder hypnosis. He managed a few

(42:54):
minutes with Calvin, but didn't get anywhere with Charlie. And
before they left, they had a press conference and said,
you know, these guys have had an experience period and
then should be treated with respect. And the story was
out and it went around the world. Calvin headed back

(43:15):
home to Laurel. Charlie obviously stayed there, his family were there,
and they were asked to have a polygraph. Charlie had
the polygraph, Calvin couldn't because he ended up in hospital,
and you know, the story and then went around the
world channel, and that's pretty much in a nutshell.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Did they have any sense of how much actual time
quote unquote earth time, I'll call it that they were
aboard that craft.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Not At that point, Neither Charlie or Calvin wore a watch,
so they have no idea. They won't even show what
time of night it was. And there's a little bit
of disagreement here as well. There are, you know, different
opinions about it. When they drove into town into the
sheriff's office, they pulled up at the newspaper office, which

(44:11):
was closed, and they knocked on the door and there
was a couple of cleaning ladies in there and said,
you know, it's closed, come back tomorrow. And that was
Charlie knocking on the door. Now, somebody said they were
trying to tell the newspaper about the story, which wasn't
the case. Calvin said, no, we thought there was a
big clock, you know, on the wall inside the officers there,

(44:35):
because we didn't know what time it was. We're just
trying to find out what time it was and they
had no idea, I think, you know, with hindsight. And
they looked back on it maybe half an hour forty minutes,
certainly no longer than that. So yeah, that was just
an estimate, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Now, especially since Calvin was physically stuck in his it
was something. Were there physical remnant or marks or any
indication of what they they recounted.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah, that's this is why I pointed out those two
little bits. When I started working with Calvin on his book.
I said to him, do we have any photographs, documents,
I mean, you know, newspaper, cuttons, anything, And he said no.
They said our house was hit by Hurricane Katrina and
it was on the twelve feet of water. We lost everything. Okay,

(45:32):
I understand. So I started putting the feelers out to
want to either individuals or UFO groups, just to see
if they had anything. One of those seemed obvious for me.
It was the Center for UFO Studies, you know, formed
by Alan Heinek. So I contacted them and yeah, they said, yeah,

(45:54):
we've We've got a file. Philip here it is to
PEDIF file. Most of it was newspaper cuttings, which is fine.
In the middle of this file, Shannon, there was a
one page type written so it's written on an old
typewriter and it's headed Puncture Ones and it's dated October thirteenth,

(46:16):
nineteen seventy three. So two days later they've actually put
the wrong date, so they've typed over it. And I
remember he was in an old typewrit myself, so I've
done it myself. And it goes on to describe that
both men were asked to strip to their underwear and
they were given the once over, and that in inverted Commas,
puncture wounds were found in Charlie Hickson's forearm and Calvin

(46:39):
Parker's foot, and it mentioned some photographs, but there were
no photographs with it. I thought this is amazing, so
I asked Calvin, who gave you the once sober? Who
asked you to strip down and said that it was
doctor Harder. It wasn't a medical doctor. I think it
was a doctor of engineering, but at least he had
the foresight to have a look, so to speak. So

(47:02):
about a year, maybe a little bit longer after that,
I get an email from the same gentleman, same caller.
You've got the center fore UFO Studies, And he said, Philip,
I was going through some files today. I wasn't looking
for these. Well, I assume you've got them anyway, but
I thought i'd better send them pay presto. It was
the photographs that went along with that document. So here

(47:23):
you have Charlie Hickson's forearm with these small marks on it,
and then you have Calvin's Parker's foot and he's got
three marks underneath him, like a little triangle under his foot.
They are minor injuries, Shannon, you know, I won't exaggerate.
They are only minor injuries. But you've got them, you've
got both gentlemen recounting them, then you've got the document

(47:48):
written about seeing them, and then you've got your photographs
showing them. So for me, that is a physical link
to what happened to them. That night. What it says again,
it is open to speculation, but it's there. And we
published those photographs Beyond Reasonable Doubts with doctor Irean the
Scott as my co author for the first time, along

(48:09):
with the document, and they are there for everyone to
look at and make up their own mind.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Philip, have you ever come across any other cases where
the beings were described in a similar way, because these
are very unique.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
No. I mean, as I mentioned, when I first read
about this case back in the eighties, it was these
creatures that really stuck in my mind. And ever since,
you know, linking up with Calvin and Dr Scott and
doing this work, we now have this technology that I'm

(48:45):
able to search all kinds of things and put appeals
out and ask people en mass and I've done that
and I can't find anything that is even close Shannon.
And of course, back in nineteen seventy three, the only
real sort of science fiction TV that I can remember

(49:07):
is here in the UK we had Doctor Who, and
then we had The Outer Limits. And I can't think
of anything in the science fiction literature that looks like
these things either. So it's another unique aspect about the
encounter itself. It's the description of these beings. And of

(49:27):
course Calvin said, there was this creature that looked like
a female, a human female. Again, you know, you just
have to make of it what you will.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
I mean, besides some of the more obvious points that
do mirror some other encounters, that was one of the
ones that stuck out to me the most was it
seems like they have this other being that looks just
similar enough to where as you say, if she was
at a bar, she was normal and pretty enough you'd

(49:59):
buy or drink. And it's as if they're just placed
there to have the new occupant or the cap tour
as it were, essentially feel a little bit more at ease.
As at ease. They could be hanging mid air like
Charlie was and Calvin laying on this table. I don't
know how you could be at ease, but it seems

(50:21):
like that's what those are there for.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Yeah, I mean, and this, you know, Calvin had this
message in ahead, but you know, we're not going to
hurt you and Charlie. He thought they were going to
be killed. There was no indication of that was just
the way he thought about it at the time. And
he thought if they're going to kill us. Get on
with it, you know, don't don't, don't make a suffer,

(50:46):
just get on with it. And then Charlie went back
in time to when he was in Korea and he
remembered when they were pinned down with from enemy gunfire
at one particular place and he thought, you know, we're finished,
We're not going to get out of here, and his
commanding officers said, stay calm, don't panic. An opportunity will

(51:10):
come for us to get out of here, and when
it does, will be gone. So that's what came in
then came into Charlie's mind. I'll get a chance to
get out of here, not going to be killed, and
we'll be gone. So he was able to handle it
differently as well. Shannon, and he didn't see that, you know,
any female or anything like that, and it wasn't he

(51:32):
was scared. But when you listen to the you know,
the secret tape Calvin was crawling up the wall, there
was a difference between the two. You know, I don't
know what to make of it. I mean, if we
go forward in time a couple of years, we have
the Travis Walton incident in Snowflakeing, Arizona, and of course

(51:56):
during his experience he saw some beings looked almost human
as well, so that part is not unknown, so to speak.
It probably was at the time, but you know, that's
that kind of thing has happened since then. But as
for these big ugly creatures that Calvin saw, can't find

(52:16):
them anywhere.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
I feel like if Calvin and Charlie and Travis would
have a meeting, I don't know if they ever did,
you could probably tell us, but I feel like they would.
They would feel at ease with each other, and they
could easily talk and of course understand one another, because
there are a lot of similarities to Travis's case as well.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Yeah, I mean, I know Calvin met Travis. I think
it was twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen at a conference. Both
Charlie and Calvin at different times also met Betty Hill.
In fact, Calvin went and stayed three days with Betty,
and we have a picture of Charlie with Betty and
some correspondents between them as well, So they certainly met others.

(53:03):
And I asked Calvin why he wanted to speak to
Betty's and I thought she'd be able to help us,
And I think she did, you know, she helped them,
She tried to help Calvin, you know, because Calvin was
traumatized for the rest of his life. I've often described
Calvin's experiences a bit like I don't know if people
remember the TV series in the nineteen eighties, The Hulk.

(53:27):
The Hulk was you know, Dr David Banner, and there
were a journalists hunting them. So every time the journalists
got here, they've moved to another town to keep out,
get out of the way. Calvin did that in real
life with his wife and family in tow and it
haunted him for the rest of his life. And it's

(53:47):
only in the last couple of years before he died
that things started to change for him.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Was there ever any sense that these beings came back
in any way, shape or form and made contact with
Calvin or Charlie?

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Yeah, I have to say yes to that. Charlie in
his book UFO Contact of Pascagoula tells of you'd almost
then class Charlie has a contact. He claimed to get
a couple of messages from these creatures. Never saw them,
and they told him that they were these creatures were

(54:30):
going to help mankind in some way. I mean big time,
and that Charlie was going to play a part in that.
He wasn't sure what it was. He also had another
sighting on a UFO that was seen by all the family.
Calvin had another encounter in nineteen ninety three. He again

(54:53):
went fishing, this time in a little boat on his own,
just a few miles from where they were living. And
he said, I'm only going for a couple of hours.
So I just took a sandwich in a bottle of water.
And he's fishing away and there's a cloud. Love. He
see this cloud and the cloud opens. This is not

(55:13):
our cloud, you know. Next thing he remembers, it pitched black.
It's the early hours of the morning. He's caught some fish.
You don't remember catching any fish. Is his launch. He
goes back to shore. His car is there, and there's
a note under his windscreen from his wife wearing out wheather.

(55:33):
Hell ayah, you know she'd been out looking for him.
He was coming in this black stuff. He went home
and said, oh that, you know, the engine packed up
on the boat. Calvin told his neighbor a friend, and
his friend knew a little bit about the UFO subject,
but only a little bit. And he said, does a

(55:55):
conference coming up in Florida, and there's a guy speaking
there called Bod Hopkins. He specializes in this type of thing.
So they got in the car. They drove to Florida.
I think Calvin told me it took him like thirteen
hours to get there, but at a long drive. The

(56:16):
conference was being held at a hotel. Calvin would not
go in, he didn't want anyone to recognize him. So
his friend went in, found Bod, explained what had happened. Bud,
being the lovely guy that he was, as he's my
hotel key, teime, I'll meet him in my room in
you in an hour or whenever, which he did. And

(56:41):
then and then Bout touched Calvin under hypnosis, and we
managed to find a copy of the tape of that
hypnosis session Buds. As you know, he was no longer
with us. His archive with was with Dr David Jacobs.
Contact to David, and David would only let us have

(57:04):
a copy of it with Calvin's permission, which he gave.
But on this tape you hear the hypnosis in full.
Calvin is on this thing. It's the same creature as again,
this woman and these these big ugly things he's shown us.

(57:25):
I'll call it a mirror, which it's not a mirror,
shallon the best way I can describe it. In this mirror,
Calvin describes it as been a curse. It was shown
things that had happened to the earth in the past,
what was happening now, what was going to happen in
the future. And it wasn't pleasant, And you know, people

(57:47):
being killed, mass starvation, war, that kind of thing. And
Calvin actually got hold of this female creature and I
started to fight with her. He said, I've had enough
of this. He said, I was looking for a door
and were if there was one, we're both going out
of it. But the big guy got hold of him
and that that was the end of that. But also

(58:10):
under this hypnosis, Calvin again told the experience of nineteen
seventy three, but he also told of similar too little
experiences when it was a young as a young boy,
and they too involved this female. So in all these instances,
this the common denominator was this female creature. Now, when

(58:34):
Calvin passed away, I found a lot of stuff that
was still hadn't published. Shannon. I thought our book Beyond
Reasonable Doubt was going to be the you know, the last,
the last piece of the puzzle. But there was still
information coming in and every now and again, I'll do

(58:56):
a sweep of things online. And I had a look
and I found a website and it had been set
up in the nineties by a local journalist. And on
this website there was a couple of police officers that
were interviewed. They'd seen something around the same time. But

(59:17):
long behold. Embedded into this website there is Calvin and
he looks, you know, in his thirties, twenties, I don't know,
you know. And there's little videos and it's Calvin's just
talking to the camera. The first half he talks about

(59:38):
what happened to him in nineteen seventy three. He finishes that,
turns around, faces the camera again, and it then goes
on to talk about another encounter that happened place called
Baldwin in Louisiana in nineteen ninety two. Now, Calvin had
never mentioned this to me or anyone else. And this

(01:00:02):
encounter he was working out in Louisiana. It was in
the car with a friend. They were going to look
at their next destination for work, and they said, Calvin
got this feeling, for want of a better word, that
these these beans were again nearby. She stopped the car,
went off into the woods and there was one of

(01:00:25):
these craft there. There was some of the ugly creatures outside,
but this time there was a ramp coming down and
he went in and there was the female and she
explained to Calvin that her species had gone through similar
problems that we on Earth were going through, you know,
global warming, war, et cetera, et cetera. They got past

(01:00:48):
that now, and they indeed wanted to try and help
h mankind. And she explained, you know that the ugly
guys out there are checking samples, and it's talking to
her about this, and he'd forgotten about his friend. He
was still sighting the car, and they earned this commotion outside,

(01:01:10):
and Calvin said, as I came out, my friend had
come to find it, and he thought he's there with
a tire iron. He thought something had happened to me,
So off they went and went back home. So possibly
somewhere out there there's one of Calvin's work colleagues who
could corroborate this. But it's awfully puzzling, Shannon that he

(01:01:32):
never mentioned it. So what I've done I put the
whole transcript of it in the most recent book, pascagoul Uncopboard,
so people can can read it for themselves. It's all there.
I just find it fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
No, it absolutely is. And it's you know, it's sad though,
because and I say this kind of in a chuckle way,
but it's not. It's funny, but it's not funny. Poor
Calvin loved to go fishing. But every time, not every time,
strike that he would go fishing, and he loved to
do this, and then he's having these sometimes terrifying experiences,

(01:02:13):
ruin in something that he loves doing, which is fishing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
Yeah. I mean, I'll give you an example of Calvin.
And he's also his sense of humour. Shannon. One of
the local charities in Pascagoula was raising money for whatever,
and you could donate something and they would raffle it
off and the money would go to the charity. Calvin

(01:02:39):
offered a free night time fishing with him on the
river as a prize, and he laughed, you know, he
laughed about you know, he's nineteen seventy three encounteries. So
I got hired, fired and abdupted all in the same day.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
My gosh, poor guy, thought, really, I mean terrifying experience.
Though really, I mean there are i'mhappy that he could
laugh about it a little bit, but it's not nice,
not at all.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
I mean that night in nineteen seventy three when they
got back to Charlie's, and this reminded me of other
victims of traumatic events. Calvin got in the shower and
he found a gallon of bleach and he washed himself
in bleach. And he'd got his clothes, put them in
a plastic bag and threw them in the trash in

(01:03:32):
case they were contaminated in some way. And he said, Tulip,
I wish I hadn't done that now, but you know,
I wasn't thinking straight that night. And you know, I've
heard of people who have been you know, physically abused
of feeling dirty on want to wash themself, and it
just what Calvin said that night, it just reminded me

(01:03:52):
of that he washed himself in bleach, He scrubbed, he
scrubbed himself, red rawing bleach, and it was trauma pretty
much for the rest of his life as a result.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
I mean, Philip, as you will know, looking into these
UFO cases, not every time, but many times it seems
to follow family line. So were there other family members
of Calvin and Charlie that had similar experiences.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Not that we know of. I mean, Calvin's mom is
still alive, but she's in a nursing home. His father's
passed away. He had one brother younger than him. He's
no longer with us either. We've spoken with Eddie Hickson,
you know, Charlie's son. I mean Eddie at the time

(01:04:42):
was actually in the Marine Corps. The first he heard
of it was in is it Stars and Stripes? They
call it the magazine for the military. That was the
first time he read about it. And he got on
the phone to his father, said, you know what the
hell's been happening? And to give you an example, Calvin

(01:05:02):
got married to Waynet as planned in November nineteen ninety three.
Not long after, Calvin himself joined the Marine Corps because
he wanted to get away for I found in the Marines,
there's nobody can find me. He lasted nine months and
he got an honorable discharge. And so I asked him,

(01:05:26):
why were you Why did you get a discharge? He said, well,
one of the other marines trying to make fun of him,
and Calvin was how can I put it, Well, he
liked it. He didn't mind a fight. So this marine
ended up on the wrong end of Calvin's fists, I believe,
and I'm sure that happened. You know, in Marines when

(01:05:47):
the training there's a lot of you know, testosterone. But
then Calvin said there was a journalist turned up. I
found where Calvin was, so he went to see his
commanding officer explain the situation. This is, don't worry about someone.
We'll work you know, will work something out. And he
got an honorable discharge. And Calvin's brief military career, all

(01:06:11):
his documents are all in the new book Pascagoula un Cupboard.
I managed to get them and they're all in there
so you can see it for yourself. But it showed
you how desperate it was Shannon to get away from
this story. You know, joining the Marines not long after
you've moneyed your childhood sweetheart is no mean feat.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
No, and people can be so cruel unless they've been
through it, and sometimes even when they have been through it,
because they don't want to face it like these guys have.
All they can turn to is the the hurtful words
and the poking fun and as you say, what was
the nickname the alien man they called him, which is unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
Yeah, yeah, but things things change for Calvin once he
wrote his own book because he it was treated with
respect by the local media. He was invited to UFO
conferences where people wanted to hear his story. There was
no poking fun at him. Things changed from a research

(01:07:12):
point of view as well. Shannon I was contacted by
a gentleman in Greece. His name is Stephanos Stephanos Panageo
Takis and Stephanos back in the seventeen eighties, being in
the Greek Merchant Navy. He was a radio operator, but
he was also a UFO researcher and he used to

(01:07:35):
write for a publication in Greece and his favorite case
was Pascagoula. So in nineteen eighty one, the ship that
he was on doped him Pascagoula and he got several
days shortly, so he set out to get an interview
with Charlie, which he did. He then went to the
police station, explained who he was and you know, he've

(01:07:58):
got any more info? They said to him, have you
spoken to Pastor Seagallas, what the hell's he? So they
gave him his name and address. Sephanos went and knocked
on this chentleman's door, introduced himself, Come on in. Just
so happens that the pastor was his family would have

(01:08:18):
Greek couragin and here you've got a Greek eye standing
on the doorstep. What happened was Pastor Sigallas along with
a chap called down Broaderess who worked for the police
and Probation department. That night of October the eleventh, nineteen
seventy three, they were going to a meeting that was

(01:08:39):
sponsored by the church for people who had alcohol problems.
And in the back of the car they were in
was a young lady. She was a church volunteer. And
as they're heading out of town, this young lady sees
this thing coming. She's looking out of the passenger seat.
It went right over in front of them, right not
a literally right in front of them, heading in the

(01:09:04):
general direction of where Charlie and Calvin were. It's pretty
their description of it is pretty similar as well. Now
Stephanos interviewed the pastor and had a transcript of that. Sadly,
it was no longer around, same with mister Broadhurst. At
first we didn't have the lady's name who was sat

(01:09:25):
in the back of the car. We managed to find
it in a little obscure newspaper cutting. It's called Joanne Hallmark.
We found a black and white picture of her from
nineteen seventy four. I think it was She wasn't a resident,
wasn't born and bred in the area, She'd only gone
there to work for a couple of years. I found

(01:09:48):
a couple of social media accounts that she had, but
they hadn't been used in an awful long time, Shannon,
so I left it, and then I went back sometime
later and I noticed on one of these social media
accounts there was the name of a church. So I
did what you can do now that you couldn't do
in nineteen seventy three. I put the church's name into Google. Hey, Presto,

(01:10:11):
it was there, and it was but it wasn't in Pastorgool.
It was in Maryland, and he had a websites. So
I loved on and on this church website there were
two sermons that you could download, both done by somebody
called Hallmark. And I'm thinking, is this her husband or
perhaps her son's and the church had a general email address,

(01:10:36):
you know, info at church whatever. So I sent them
an email just saying I was looking for this. Lady
didn't say what about. I just said she worked with
the pastor Cigalas in Pascogoler in nineteen seventy three. If
she's still there, could you pass the email on. Three
or four weeks later, got a reply from her. She
was indeed still there, So then I to explain in response,

(01:11:02):
in reply to what I was interested in, I sent
her a copy of the black and white photo we had.
Again three or four weeks later she replied again. She
laughed at the old photograph. She sent us an up
to date one, by the way, and she confirmed what
they'd seen that night. She gave us a telephone number.
I was now working with Dr Irena Scott. So Irena

(01:11:25):
rang her and we got the details. We were up
and running as far as new witnesses were concerned. And
that was you know, that that gave us the idea
that maybe we might get a few witnesses. We didn't
think we'd get what we ended up with, but there
was one who we tracked down. She hadn't stepped forward

(01:11:48):
and you know, she'd had no more sightings, wasn't interested
in the subject. And away we went. And Calvin was amazed,
absolutely amazed.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
Oh I bet he was. That all of you guys were.
That is incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
Well, it continued. I'll give you another example. Calvin had
a book signing in basket googler. An old boy came
up to him. Can I buy him up? Mister Parker,
here's my money? Sign it. Oh, by the way, I
saw that thing that night if he went, luckily, if

(01:12:24):
I somebody was taking photographs and there's a picture of
this chap buying a book. So I put that on Facebook,
just said, anybody know this gentleman? Would you like to
speak to him? A lady contacted me and said, yeah,
I know him. I'll ask you if he'll speak to you.
He said yes. His name was mister Lewis Lee, and

(01:12:45):
he worked on the opposite side of the river that
night in the shipyard, and he said, I was a
crane driver, Philip, and he said, as soon as I
got my cab ten or twelve feet off the ground,
I could see this darn thing out over the river,
not open the sky, but out over the river. He said,

(01:13:07):
I've never seen anything like it in my life. And
he said, I watched it for quite some time, and
so I only took my eyes off it. It's my
colleague down below. He's shouting at me. So I had
to attend to that. And then when I look back
at had gone and I said, did you report it
twenty one? He says, Philip, this is nineteen seventy three.

(01:13:29):
There's no Ghostbusters the helm I'm going to call. So
I just told my family and that was it. So
we got another witness. And then the following year, one
of the charities in Pastor Goouler had raised enough money

(01:13:51):
to put an historic plaque, a historic marker near the
site of the encounter, and it was a fish opened
by the mayor and people came along. Eddyson came along.
It was a nice thing. Now, Calvin had been interviewed
by a local journalist and they done an article and

(01:14:15):
put it online. While she was speaking to him, she
also filmed him. She had a little sort of six
minute video, you know, embedded into her article. Somebody got
that Shannon and put it on YouTube. And I'm reading
in the comments. One comment said, my mum and dad

(01:14:35):
were on the opposite side of the river that night,
they too saw the UFO. So when iaged to find
this person, there's a young lady. I said, could we
speak to your mom and dad? She said, I'll ask.
They came back and said yes, this was Jerry and
Maria Blair, and I spoke to them. Maria said husband

(01:15:00):
worked off shore, he supplied the oil rigs. The boat
was there to take him to work that night, but
his boss hasn't turned up, so we sat in the
car waiting for his boss. Jerry's not in the best
of moods, and she says, we'll see this blue thing

(01:15:22):
come down the river and then hover opposite where we
were and move around as if it was looking for something,
or perhaps it was lost. Now Maria knew the area.
You know, there's no airfield there, there's no helicopter pad.
So at this point they decided to take Jerry's clothes

(01:15:44):
down the pier and put them on the boat. As
they're walking down the pier, she said, there's this almighty
splash in the water next to her, and out of
the water comes this gray man's her words, gray man,
and it literally stood nose to nose with her, and

(01:16:06):
then it went back down into the water and was gone.
She ran up to the boat, chopped Jerry's clothes on it,
and she estimates this was about nine o'clock. She turned
and high tailed it out of there, and once she
got back to the car, it was about midnight. Now
Jerry was gone. A few days she saw Charlie and

(01:16:28):
Calvin on the local news. Jerry come back and said,
don't tell anybody, not a soul. Not a soul. And
the young lady who put that comment on there was
actually their youngest daughter. They had two daughters, both of
whom knew about the sighting, but not this creature. And

(01:16:51):
Maria was very emotional when she was talking about this,
and she said, I've often wondered if something similar didn't
happen to me and Jerry. That's why do you say that?
She says, well, I can see something out of my
peripheral vision. I can't quite make it out what it is,

(01:17:11):
So I've passed their details on to my colleague, Dr
Irena Scott, who I was working with, and Irena took
over from there and she kept in touch with Maria
one way or another. Sadly, Jerry became seriously ill and
he was hospitalized and he was going to have a

(01:17:36):
little operation. It wasn't sure if it was going to survive.
So before the operation, from his hospital bed, Shannon, he
made Maria telephone me and this says, mister martlalled, I
saw the exact same thing as my wife. He called
it the gray humanoid, not the gray man. And Maria

(01:17:58):
filmed him, you know, saying this on his hospital bed. Thankfully,
he survived the operation, but it was only a temporary fix,
so to speak. And he turned to Maria and said,
we too would abdopted that night. And he told her
about what had happened. Then these things that Maria could

(01:18:20):
see out of her peripheral vision made sense. It wasn't
a peripheral vision. She actually had her eyes screwed up,
and she could only see through, you know, people, I
could peeping out of her eyes. Two of these creatures.
I got hold of her husband. When I got hold
of her, they went and her husband kept saying, I've

(01:18:41):
got my eye on that one, got my eye on
that one, as if one of them was in charge
or was special in some way. And even though Jerry
was terminally ill, Maria really did give him what fuck.
It's why, you know, why am it's told of this before,
and said, I was just trying to protect you, and

(01:19:01):
it won't people think we're crazy. Sadly, you know. Jerry
passed away and then at some point Maria asked if
there was any chance of hypnosis and we said, well,
I on the other side of the Atlantic. I don't.

(01:19:22):
I don't think there's anything I can do, so you know,
she'll let it go, and then she come back sometime later.
I said, well, look, I'll see what I can do.
So I just went online. Shannon and I found a
few hypno therapists in the area and I just emailed them.
One of them came back to us, a lady by
the name of Crystal Slaughter, said yeah, I can help.

(01:19:44):
We didn't tell her what the subject matter was or
anything like that, and she said, if it makes it easier,
I can even come to the client's home. You don't
have to come here. So we arranged for Maria to
go under hypnosis and it was conducted at Calvin's house.
She now met Calvin and Waynette and I haired a

(01:20:05):
guy who was a professional cameraman, and all we told
the hypnotherapist was daytime and location, and off she went
and again Maria was very emotional. You know, her husband
wasn't there where they were tainting Jerry cut in a
long story short she said that these creatures were interested

(01:20:26):
in her eggs and that they wanted to make creatures
that could walk amongst us without standing out, that we
wouldn't recognize them. We have it all on film, and
what was interesting after all this and it calmed down Shannon,
she came to the conclusion that it was her and

(01:20:48):
Jerry were they intended in inverted commas targets that night
because they were supposed to be there at that time
and at that location, Charlie and Calvin have decided to
go fishing on the way home from work, so they
weren't supposed to be there. They were like collateral damage,
so to speak. We made a documentary and sadly we

(01:21:13):
missed Maria. She was moving home, so we just couldn't
get organized the time to interview her. So there's a
lady who we got friends with out there called Chelsea
Norton Prince. She runs the Ocean Springs Historical Society and
an interest in the incident. She met Calvin and bought

(01:21:33):
a book off him, so I asked Chelsea if she
had an iPhone. She said yeah. I said, could you
do as a favor, could you interview Maria on your
iPhone because we don't have her, you know, on camera,
so to speak, apart from under hypnosis. So she said, yeah,
it ranged it. I said a list of questions, and

(01:21:56):
I said, just let her tell her story. So she
tells the story. And one of the questions I asked
Chelsea to ask Maria was to confirm when she first
met Calvin. She met Calvin in twenty nineteen when I
told you about the little historical marker. She came along
to that, so I might expecting Maria, I say, I

(01:22:17):
first met Calvin Parker when they unveiled the historical marker
in twenty nineteen. You know he Mississippi accent or Southern accent,
I should say, She said, I first seen Calvin. In
other words, I first saw Calvin when he got abdopted.

(01:22:37):
So I went back to one after this and I said,
I I want you to clarify this, Maria. Are you
telling me you saw what happened to Charlie? And Calvin said, yeah,
I could see what happened on the other side of
the river. Said, I thought it was men. I didn't
know anything about UFOs or aliens, men, you know, doing

(01:22:57):
men's stuff, you know, and said it was only when
I saw it on the TV or the local news
that you know, she went creative. Then what had happened
to her and Jerry? So Maria claims there were seeing
Charlie and Calvin's experience, their adoption, whatever you want to

(01:23:18):
call it. And again all of this has gone in
the new book. Pastor Goula oncopboard, you know, Maria's still there.
She said she's had telepathic messages from these beings. She
had one more sighting in Alabama. I believe it is
where she's moved to now with her and her granddaughter.

(01:23:41):
I think her granddaughter was about ten years of age.
And she's still in touch with with Dr Scott. And again,
like everything we've ever published on this case, Shannon, you know,
just allow people to make up their own minds. And
that's the same with the testimony from mister and missus Blair.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
I'm just so happy to hear that before Calvin passed,
and I'm sorry for his loss. I know that was
a friend of yours that he got to actually meet
the Blairs and hear their side of it, because that
is an incredible corroboration for he and Charlie's encounter.

Speaker 3 (01:24:18):
Yeah, Calvin felt vindicated. Shannon. It was like, well, I
told you so, perhaps now you'll listen, you know. And
Irene also spoke to Jerry. Johnny was a man of
few words, but he did confirm things. And you know,
had that young lady which turned out to be the

(01:24:39):
Blair's daughter not made that comment on YouTube, we'd probably
never have heard of it because they had no intention
of going on the record and her daughter didn't know
anything about the encounter apart from and seeing this blund
thing come down the river. Like I said, she became
friends with Calvin. We also, and this is an interesting

(01:25:00):
and we also had Calvin hypnotize with the same therapist
in his home a few weeks later. The hypnotherapist now
knew the subject matter, et cetera. So I just I said, look,
when you put Calvin on the hypnosis, I want you
to ask him one question. So he sat there with

(01:25:21):
his rod in the water, just asked him to describe
what he sees in front of him. I'm just wanting
to emphasize the area that there were fishing in Shannon.
So Calvin said, you know, he's on the hypnosis. She
asked him the question. He says, well, there's a boat
going out. He could even pick out the company name

(01:25:42):
on this little boat. He said, there's a bridge over
there on the left, there's one on the right, and
he said there's the ship building opposite, and then right
at the end of it Shannon. Calvin says, oh, and
there's two figures on the other side of the river.
Oh my gosh, now is that Maria and Jerry. We'll

(01:26:07):
never know. But if you don't, you know, if you
if you hadn't listened careful enough, you would have missed
that little throwaway little thing that Calvin said. He didn't
make any any emphasis of it. It was just a
little throwaway comment. And I thought, well, you know, I
don't know, you know. So we've just published it and

(01:26:29):
people again can can make up their own mind. And
we filmed it as well, so we had Calvin on
film under hypnosis. And we also found out that Charlie
Hickson back in the nineteen eighties went under hypnosis with
the Lake Bud Hopkins. He went to New York and
met Board and went on the hypnosis. We have copies

(01:26:49):
of those tapes as well, and so you know. One
of the criticisms at the time, like I said, the
location was a bit of a dump. It wasn't an
out of the way place. Shannon and two Charlie and
Calvin's left. There was a bridge that went over the river.
There was a toll bridge for traffic for cars. And

(01:27:12):
two criticisms were one that the toll booth was manned
twenty four hours and the toll bridge both operated that night.
Never saw anything. I'll come to that in a minute.
And the other criticism was that there was no drivers
coming over the bridge that saw anything what they Sugar said,
there was none that we are aware of. Because a

(01:27:34):
gentleman by the name of Rusty Lee, sorry not Rustily,
It's called Rusty. He stepped forward and he said, Philip,
I was driving over the bridge that night with my
wife and he said, as soon as we got onto
the bridge, you could see these lights and he said

(01:27:54):
they were actually down below us. It looked like whatever
was flying and I was going to crash it was
that low. And this is the next morning I went
down to visit my aunt who lived down by the river,
and he said, before I could say anything, she said
to me, you never guess what I saw last night.
His name was mister Alison Rusty Anderson. So Rusty was

(01:28:18):
interviewed for the documentary made and he put a little
Facebook post, I've been interviewed about my UFO sighting. So
I'm reading the comments underneath, and there's a lady with
a long name. She said, oh, I saw that thing
that night as well. So I left her a message

(01:28:38):
she got back to me. Her name is Pamela, Pamela
greatly Eves. She said. We lived in the opposite direction,
so to the right of where Charlie and Calvin were,
with some residential properties. And he says, I've put my
children to bed. Our house overlooked the water, and I
was going to close the curtains and said I could
see this blue thing out, you know, out over the river.

(01:29:03):
What was strange, Shannon, is that Rusty Anderson and Pamela
were actually cousins, and neither of them knew of each
other side. They never told anybody, you know. So you
have Charlie and Calvin sitting on the on the bank,
on this little pier with their rods. You've got You've

(01:29:24):
got Rusty Anderson going over the bridge, he sees it
opposite them. You've got mister Lewis Lee in the shipyard,
they ain't seen it. Just slightly to your right, you've
got you've got the Blairs, and then all the way
around to your right you've got Pamela. So you've got
observations all the way around Charlie and Calvin and what

(01:29:46):
went home that night, and then others further afield. So
what what what started at the very beginning was just
what happened to Charlie and Calvin that night. We now
end up with probably another encounter with Maria and Jerry
on the other side of the river, and then lots
of other weaknesses around. We have documents, photographs of the

(01:30:10):
minor injuries, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. All it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
So, Philip, the word audio tapes is in the subtitle
for Pasca Goula Uncovered, and you keep mentioning the incredible
Bud Hopkins. Of course, with some of these hypnosis sessions
that they went under. So I'm sure that some of
the transcripts are included, But is there anywhere that folks
could actually listen to those audio tapes.

Speaker 3 (01:30:36):
Yeah. Yeah. In between these two books, So in between
Beyond Reasonable Doubt and Pasca Lula Uncovered, there's another book.
It's simply called Pasca Goula seventy three. The Hypnosis transcripts
every piece of hypnosis that Charlie and Calvin and Maria
underwent transcribed in there in full. What is available is

(01:31:01):
an audio book that contains some of them, because some
of them just weren't good enough quality to put on
the audio book, Shannon, So you get parts where they
are read by a narrator, but other parts are the
actual audio of these various hypnosis sessions. So you have Calvin,

(01:31:25):
you've got Charlie, Anne, Maria. One of the other reasons
why we mentioned on Pascagoula Uncovered in the subtitle because
James Harder was there. Now, James Harder in nineteen seventy
was part of APRO, the Aerial Phenomenal Research Organization. They
in fact sent him down there, and we know it

(01:31:47):
was there, is in the news reports and all this
kind of thing. Now, our PRO was a big organization.
It packed ten years ago, and their files were held
in Limbo in Nevada. This couple had them a man
and a woman that the lady died, and I was

(01:32:08):
in correspondence with them trying to see if they had anything,
you know, in those files. They were very polite and nice,
but never got anywhere with them. Out of the blue,
David Marler we mentioned earlier, the National UFO Historical Records

(01:32:29):
sent to gets an email from the gentleman who has
these files. Basically he says to David, do you want them? David, yes, please.
They met, they signed a legal document. This gentleman wouldn't
even allow anyone else to deliver them. So David hired
him a truck I found wherever, and he drove them

(01:32:52):
up from Nevada and delivered them in person. And they
are still being worked on now. I get an email
from David saying, Philip, you got this audio at all?
And he sent me a list of these audio. No,
these were from the air profiles. They had never seen

(01:33:14):
the light of day. Ever, what's they're not? You know,
there's no smoking gone. From a historical perspective, they are
an amazing channel you have. The following day, when James
Harder turned up, he put Calvin under hypnosis. We have
that hypnosis. It's only eleven minutes long, and Calvin doesn't

(01:33:37):
say an awful lot. It's not good enough quality to
go on the audio, but but I transcribed it anyway.
It took a lot of doing. Then you have James
Harder a press conference taking as you know, a Q
and a press conference. You have Dr jarl and Heinek
interviewing the Sheriff Fred Diamond. All these are transcribed and

(01:34:02):
put in the new book pascagoul Or Uncovered they are.
And what is interesting, Charlie and Calvin both called these
big ugly creatures as robotic, or to them, they were robotic.
This wasn't something that appeared years later, because you have
these these audio files from a couple of days after

(01:34:23):
talking about them as robots, you know, as Charlie and
Calvin described him even right from day one as robots.
So it wasn't something that added to the conversation later.
And I'm extremely grateful to David Marla for providing copies
of these. Another bit of historic history. I was contacted

(01:34:46):
by a gentleman called mister Payne Van Payne. Instead, I
believe I was the first journalist to interview Charlie and Calvin. Okay,
maybe maybe not what it was. Mister Payne got a
tip off it was a local journalist, got a tip

(01:35:08):
off from the Sheriff's office. Burning in mind, Charlie and
Calvin could never find out how the story got out.
He got a tip off. He's not sure if he
was from the dispatcher or somebody else telling him what
had happened. So he hi tells it to the Sheriff's office.
Too late, Charlie and Calvin had gone home, so he

(01:35:31):
goes back the next morning. Too late. They're not there.
They've gone to the hospital. So he goes to the
Singing River Hospital. Guess what, too late. They're now gone
to Keysler Air Force Base. So he drives there and
he waits outside of Keesler Air Force Base for Charlie
and Calvin. How they come and he asked for an interview,

(01:35:54):
which they declined, but he's a bit more persuasive and
they said, well, we'll give you an interview so long
as we can stand with our backs to the camera
so people can't see our face. So yeah, so you
have Charlie, Calvin, mister Van Payne facing the camera and
he's got his microphone in his hand and he's interviewing,

(01:36:16):
and it's fascinating, Shannon. This is the day after the encounter.
What was also fascinating because of course this was all
shot on sixteen millimeter film. You didn't just once you've
used the big you didn't chuck it in the bed.
You know, you saved it. We used the rest of it.
Mister Payne went to interview another gentleman. I can't remember

(01:36:39):
his name off the top of my head, but he
was part of the Civil Defense. He was the meteorological officer,
and he got something on radar that night. So mister
Paine's got him in his place of work and interviews him,
which we'd never heard of before. The one last thing
on this tape sixteen millimeter film, I should say, should

(01:37:04):
now been digitized, by the way, very little curious thing.
There is a guy who was a taxi driver in
the area claimed to see this UFO land and these
creatures with these crab like claws get out. But if
I got one thing, his colleague was parked in the
taxi rank behind him and said, if that didn't happen,

(01:37:25):
we never saw anything. It was a hoax. So we
even have that little snippet of information and thankfully, mister
van Paigne has given me a copy of the whole lot.
So I have all those films in our archive and
they're all transcribed and in the new book Passogle or Uncovered,

(01:37:46):
and on it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
And if I might just bring this up before I
have you tell everybody where to find you in your works,
is the fact that and this is nothing shocking, but
it is very dark. The implications are just dark and
can be sad for those who have possibly seen what
they have considered to be their offspring. And that is
the fact that Maria brought up the fact that she

(01:38:11):
thought that they were interested in her eggs, and then
Calvin seeing this human looking woman, who knows if she's
actually really there? Is it a projection? Is she a hybrid? Right?
Is she a product of some kind of a hybrid program?
And havn't forbidden knew him somehow, or maybe she knew

(01:38:32):
Maria somehow. I don't know, But that aspect of these
encounters to me is always just so dark and occasionally
very sad, because some of these folks actually recognize or
have these connections with these hybrids that they see on
these crafts, but they don't have relationships with them.

Speaker 3 (01:38:52):
No, but what he did with Maria, and of course
Maria has two daughters. That was the youngest start to
have put that little comment on YouTube. And what it did.
It made me real look at her daughters, I think,
could it be possibly? No, truly not. So It's left
her shaking her head in that respect, and so it

(01:39:15):
did have an effect on her. And she was very
emotional after the hypnosis as she was in the beginning.
She couldn't understand why she was so emotional. If she'd
just seen a blue light, that's why she She was
pretty sure there was something else, but she didn't know
what it was until Jerry then started telling her the

(01:39:36):
story and what she could see. Then all fitted and
slotted into place. Like I say, when when after the
hypnosis she said, you know you look at your your children,
anything you know like you've seen? Yeah, it made it
made her certainly made her think, Shannon, if nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
Else, I can certainly understand that I'd imagine to make
you question all kinds of things. So well do you
I mean, I hope that you have more books and
projects that you're looking into. Is there anything that you
can share that you might be looking into?

Speaker 3 (01:40:09):
Next Yeah, there's always there's always something that crops up, Shannon.
And I mean my colleague Dr Irian Scott was writing
one last book about Pastor Gooula, and she's a scientist.
She's taking a scientific look at it and looking at
some of the the you know, other things surrounding it,

(01:40:32):
shall we say, and that will probably be the last
last word unless anything else turns up in the meantime.
But you know, I'm not a member of any organizations
or anything like that anymore. So things, you know, just
come my way one way or another, and so there's
always there's always something to work on. I've got more

(01:40:54):
books coming by other authors. I'm working on a book
my self. It's pretty much finished for next year, and
that will detail a lot of the other things that
I've been involved in down the years, Shannon. You know,
because I've been at it an awful long time. It's
not everything, but it's a lot of the things that
I've been involved in down the years. So that will

(01:41:16):
give people a better grasp of, you know, what kind
of things I've been involved in. That will come out
sometime next year. It's almost finished, and some of those,
you know, there's photographic cases in there. There's several hoaxes
that I was involved in investigating, so one of which

(01:41:37):
everybody will know, which is the alien autopsy film. But
there's a couple of local ones that happened in West
Yorkshire that I'm pretty sure nobody's ever heard of or
versus only very few. So it's a mixture of all
kinds of things that were going that. I promised Calvin
that I'd be the torch bearer for the case and

(01:41:59):
I will. I'll continue to spread the word. As we've mentioned,
there is a a movie screen prey written and it
was written in conjunction with Calvin when he was before
he passed away. It has a producer and a director
attached to it and they've said that we might hear

(01:42:22):
something by the end of the year, so fingers crossed
that that gets the green light and well, and we'll
see what happens next.

Speaker 5 (01:42:29):
Well.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
I am extremely pleased to hear that, Philip, absolutely, So
let everybody know, of course where to find you on
the socials if you want to give any of those out,
and of course where to find all of your works.

Speaker 3 (01:42:41):
Yeah, I'm on Facebook. I'm not like some hobbit. Shannon
in a little hobble hiding away. Like you said, just
type in Flying disc Press you'll find it's this with
a K. I'm easily enough found. I'm on Twitter as well,
or x or whatever the hell they call it now exactly,
So yeah, I'm easy to find. And if anyone has
got any information about pastor Googler or wants to share something,

(01:43:05):
please do you know. And like I said at the
beginning the beginning, if anyone's got an archive out there
it's worried about what's going to happen to it, please
don't leave it too late. Donate it somewhere and keep
it safe.

Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
Well, Philip, I have truly enjoyed having you on, and
the next time you have that book come out, you
are absolutely welcome back on. And besides that, I mean,
let's face it, you have past works that I think
it would be wonderful to cover as well. So let's
do this again.

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
Thank you very much, Shannon. A great pleasure to talk
to you this evening for the for the first time,
but hopefully not the last.

Speaker 2 (01:43:41):
Long overdue and I apologize for that, but yes it
is not the last.

Speaker 3 (01:43:46):
Thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:43:50):
So I was given a name by my parents business
college I've done my profession producing the lab.

Speaker 3 (01:43:58):
But it says forget it.

Speaker 7 (01:44:00):
That's not.

Speaker 6 (01:44:02):
That's something for a story that's all gone, that's all pass.
I want to see the really you you are now,
But nobody knows who learning is because we don't know
our service except for listening to our eCos and consulting
our members. And then that's a really. And then again

(01:44:23):
needs expect this question.

Speaker 3 (01:44:27):
What are you?

Speaker 7 (01:44:29):
That is the meaning.

Speaker 3 (01:44:31):
We shall see how they play with the success.

Speaker 6 (01:44:34):
But buy the cots to get you to come out
of your show and find out.

Speaker 7 (01:44:40):
When you're really hard.

Speaker 5 (01:44:59):
H it's it's it's it's steps, it's puss. Puss Puss.

Speaker 7 (01:45:58):
Puts said.

Speaker 6 (01:46:32):
People, for example, are quite divided on us. They will say, no,
we don't believe literally in reincarnation that after your funeral
you will suddenly become somebody different living somewhere else. They
will say, reincarnation means this that if you're sitting here now,

(01:46:53):
are really convinced that you're the same person at.

Speaker 7 (01:46:56):
The door half an hour ago, you will become.

Speaker 3 (01:47:01):
If you're liberating your mothers now that you're doing.

Speaker 6 (01:47:04):
The past hasn't existence, The future doesn't existence.

Speaker 3 (01:47:09):
There is only a present.

Speaker 2 (01:47:11):
That's the only menim of the incidence.

Speaker 6 (01:47:14):
The send master, don'tspace s spring does not become something.

Speaker 3 (01:47:23):
Because there is some sense.

Speaker 7 (01:47:24):
And then there is springs. It's it's it's bassus Puss.

Speaker 5 (01:48:52):
Puss Puss has the same ideas four more Days, where

(01:49:21):
he says, when you settled down in the train, you
can read your newspaper.

Speaker 3 (01:49:25):
And so they were not the same person while I
go and live in the platform.

Speaker 6 (01:49:32):
If you think you are, you are linking your moments
up in the check And this is what binds the
wheeler band when you know that every moment of which
you are is the only moment. This cons in deser,
and the Master will say from somebody, I can't have
a walk acrost the rock and it can't be back,

(01:49:54):
And he says, where are you up with me?

Speaker 3 (01:49:57):
They've gone, it's but where are you?

Speaker 7 (01:50:01):
Who are you?

Speaker 6 (01:50:02):
When we are asked who we are, will we usually
give a kind of recitation of an instrums insensience, insence

Speaker 2 (01:50:13):
H

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