iNTO THE FRAY 514: Skinwalker on the Reservation

Taylor discusses Bigfoot encounters, missing time, a strange creature in TX, a ticked-off skinwalker, and more. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The infinite complaces people went to and pro fears about
their little affairs, serene in the assurance of their dominion
over this small binning fragment of solar driftwood, which, by
chance or design, man has inherited out of the dark
mystery of time and face.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
On this episode of Into the Fray, I welcome Taylor
on with me, And I'm excited because I have a
nice little bullet point list, and these bullet points are
things like missing time and Bigfoot and even the word
shoop of covers in here. So I'm very excited and
looks like quite a bit of this takes place in
one of my favorite places that I used to live

(01:24):
in for a few years, and that's Washington State. But Taylor,
welcome on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Thanks glad to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I am glad that you got in touch, all right.
So I don't know how much backstory we need to
set us up with Washington State, and it sounds like
you grew up there. But wherever you wanted to begin,
you go right ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I'll just ramble around and you can reel me in
when you want to. The first one or the big one,
why I called, first of all, I listen to your
show all the time. So I had a pretty good
understanding of the stuff that people think is interesting enough
that other people would like to hear. And the first

(02:12):
big thing was about Man. It was like thirty five
years ago. I was young, fairly recently married, had a
two year old kid, and my wife was the time,
was literally nine months pregnant with the next one. And
so it was aga November and I made the decision

(02:36):
to talker into not carrying if I went deer hunting
that weekend, and she had lot. We had both had
lots of family in town, and she had lots of friends.
It was a town we grew up in, so it
wasn't that big of a deal. I was supposed to
be back Saturday night for a wedding reception. Her friend

(02:57):
had wedding reception and it was from eight o'clock to
eleven o'clock, and so I was like, man, don't worry,
I'll be home by seven. Pop in the shower, we'll
be over there, no problem. It's like, okay, cool, we'll
get your little sister to babysit the two year old.
I'll be ready to roll, like no problem. So of

(03:22):
course we were late, leaving, and we were about two
and a half hours away from home when we even left,
so it was about probably nine to fifteen ish. We
were about ten miles away from home. And this was
the days were right when cell phones were coming in.
Nobody really had the handheld. But the guy that I

(03:44):
was with had his own business and he had a
mobile phone in his truck. So as soon as we're,
like I said, about ten minutes away from home, now
it's nine to fifteen and the phone rings and he
just looks at me and he's like, man, you know
who that is? My guy? I know I'm in trouble.

(04:07):
So he answers it and he's like, yeah, it's hurt her,
and he hand me the phone. She's like, where are you?
We're late. Your sister's been here for two hours, and
so I gave her, you know, the old excuse, and
I we're ten minutes away from town and we'll be there.
I can hop in the shower. It's only nine thirty.

(04:29):
Still got an hour and a half hanging out there
with everybody. And she's like, okay, you know, just get home.
And we're coming up on the there's one big round
turn before it's a straight shot into town and we
could see the bubble lights of a cop and I

(04:51):
hung up the phone and I look at my watch
and it's nine eighteen, and I was like, yeah, we'll
be there and plenty of time. And as soon as
I put the phone back in the cradle, I looked
up again and there were the flashing lights were gone,
and uh, this was oldie time days. So the cassette

(05:11):
we were listening to in the stereo, same song, but
it bumped forward like about six or seven words, and
it's not, you know, like a cdal scratch or an
LP wal scratch, but a cassette doesn't just bump forward.
But anyway, we hit the turn and there's no lights,
there's no cop car, there's no car pulled over on

(05:33):
the side of the road, there's no tail lights, and uh,
we just kind of looked each other like, man, that's
freaking weird. And uh there was another guy with this,
and we go, did you see that? And he's like,
I didn't see nothing. Man didn't see nothing. And so
we just drive home kind of in silence, trying to
figure out what was going on. And we get there,

(05:56):
get home, my little sister's car is gone. But my
friend's wife's car is there, and I'm like, man, what's
going on here? That was pretty quick, pretty quick change.
And we get in and she just tore into me.
She's like, where the hell where are you? We're going
to be We're not going to make it now. And
I was like, man, I told you, it's like, what

(06:18):
is it? Nine thirty five? We'll get there. And I
looked down at my watch and it was ten thirty five,
and she's like, where the hell were you? You just
said you were ten minutes outside of town. I was like, yeah,
you're right at the turn. I called you at nine
thirty nine eighteen. She's like, where the hell were you? Like,
let me smell your breath? What are you guys doing?

(06:39):
And no excuse? And ever since then so I don't
know what happened there. I don't I have no memory.
I'm not saying anything happened. I don't know. I don't
know what's what. But ever since that time, I've had

(07:02):
I started having sleep paralysis and major insomnia, can't sleep,
don't sleep well. I've looked into sleep paralysis and people say,
you know, I understand the physics behind it, yourn sleep

(07:22):
and all that stuff, but I feel sometimes the presence
that some people feel about, and like there's somebody in
the room or or somebody, because sometimes it's just like
a normal normal I guess you'd say sleep paralysis. And

(07:43):
then sometimes it's just like added added terror to it,
like like I really need to wake up and want
to wake up, but I can't. Sometimes it's just like,
oh man, I'm stuck in the lube and I I
just can kind of relax and write it out. In

(08:05):
one house I was lived in in particular, I got
another story with his house too, But every time I
had this sleep proalyssce in this house, I felt that
there instead of just a standard you know, sleep paralysis,
and I'd hear three knocks on the wall of my

(08:27):
room and then I could wake up. I could snap
out of it, but not until I heard the three knocks.
And that hasn't never happened anywhere else, so I don't
know what that was all about.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
So you say that you could feel a presence occasionally,
did you ever get to see anything any kind of
a shape or form or a shadow anything like that.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
No, And that's what I tried. I've talked to other
people that have had it, and and I've read a
lot about it, you know, I've even I've been to
doctors and talked about it, and they're like, yeah, your
r em sleep gets screwed up and your your mind's awake,
but your body can't react. And I'm like, yeah, I

(09:16):
understand the physics behind that, but there's still sometimes when
I feel this presence and but you're locked up. You know,
your body is literally frozen. My mind's going full blast,
but my body won't react to anything. So I feel
like there's something like right out of the edge of

(09:38):
my vision, right out of the corner of my eye,
especially those ones when it took the three knocks to
snap me out of it. But no, I've never seen anything.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Now, what about your other hunting partners after this over
an hour missing time? Did they have similar problem sleep
and all of that? After this?

Speaker 3 (10:03):
One of them refused to talk to us about that incident,
and he didn't really I didn't. I don't know if
he did or not. The other one he had not
the sleep paralysis like I got, but we both got.

(10:23):
I also got locid dreaming out of it, and we
would talk about it every now and then, and he
also he said, man, I can kind of control my
dreams now, and I don't know if it's kind anything
to do with you know, what happened. And that's about
all he would say too about what happened. We never
really talked about it because it kind of, you know,

(10:46):
it was bizarre, and I think he got in more
trouble than I did. My wife was a pitbull, and
I think his wife really kind of tore into him
about what happened, about us being late and missing the
thing and blamed him, and so he didn't really liked it.
We didn't talk about it much, but I know he

(11:08):
did get dreaming, the lucid dreaming out of it.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
And none of you guys recall seeing a craft or
anything like that.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
We didn't see anything. That's the weird thing about it.
I don't remember, couldn't tell you anything, you know. I mean,
I'm I'm pretty deep into the weird stuff. That's why
I'm calling you. And there's no you know, marks on
the body. No, we didn't see a craft. We didn't

(11:39):
see anything, nothing other than the fact that it was
like guaranteed we all know that we lost that time
and that we saw that light, you know, And then
it was gone. The cop car it was had someone
pulled over. And that's a stretch. It's like an eight

(12:02):
mile stretch that's pretty straight, and there was nowhere no
other side road. So if there was a car there,
even if it was just a cop car for some
reason with his lights on, not having somebody pulled over,
we would have seen him or seen his tail lights,
or he would have spun round to come back at us.

(12:23):
We didn't see another car on that road.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
It makes me wonder if the police officer and whoever
he had pulled over, had anything weird happened to them.
There's no way to know, but that's where my mind goes.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, I didn't even think about it until years later,
and I was like, you know, we should have checked
with the We should have checked with the sheriff and
seen if they pulled anybody over out there that night,
if that was some information we could have got from them.
But it was years later, But of course I thought
of that, so we didn't.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Now this was in Washington state, right, yes, yep. Did
you ever go back and look at and most people
don't take the time to even go to a website
and report anything, and if this was when cell phones
were just coming out, then this was probably not really
a thing that much. But did you ever go back
and see if anyone eventually reported seeing a craft or

(13:23):
strange lights in that area at that time, not that.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Exact area, I don't know. If you're familiar with the
Top and Ish lights incident, that's another It was kind
of a big flap, and there's a book about it now.
I just got that book, and I realized that it
was hind of the same time frame as a few

(13:51):
years before what happened with us. But Top and Ish
only thirty five forty miles away from where this happened,
and they had a whole summer of crazy stuff. The
reservation police, there's a small reservation up there, and the
reservation police were chasing stuff all over, and the city

(14:14):
cops where even they were taking all kinds of everybody
calling in and saying they were seeing stuff, and that
one kind of backs up to U sneering at Cheese
and outside of Yakama. It's in between where I was
in Yakama, and uh, if you're a bigfoot girl, you

(14:35):
know a lot of stuff there in the cascades around
Natchies and Yakama and that was all kind of tied in.
But Poppinish Lights it's a great book. But like I
said that, that was kind of basically the same time
frame and the same area, and it's near also near

(14:58):
we were maybe ten miles from a commercial nuclear reactor
and the Hanford Reservation, the Doe Reservation, so there's a
lot of nuclear stuff going on around there. And there's also,
as you know, theories about kind of extra people seeing

(15:22):
stuff around nuclear installations. I mean, I got plenty of
friends growing up that saw stuff. Nobody, you know, with
a full on I got beamed aboard a ship or anything.
But lots of people see things in the sky.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, And there's less light pollution in that part of
the country, especially in that part of that state, so
it's easier to see when there's weird things in the sky.
But yeah, definitely if there's a nuclear installation, there's gonna
be some stories around places like that. So I mean,
do you feel like when you look back on that
and with does do this range do the sleep issues

(16:02):
still continue to this day? Tailor?

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Oh? Yeah, yeah, And this was, like I said, this
was nineteen ninety, so thirty five years ago, and uh
and before that, it was great. I was great, man,
I was a no issues really to speak of, and
I still have I don't get the much more where

(16:27):
we were just talking about the paralysis as much as
I used to. But it still comes and goes. But
I'm sixty years old and I fall out of bed
sometimes or I wake up on the floor, or I
got like I said, the lucid dreaming. I didn't even
know what a lot of this stuff was until last

(16:48):
five or ten years when I started reading and watching
shows about stuff. But I never had that before and now,
and it's it goes both ways. If I'm having a
good dream, I can like steer it almost like a
movie and make things happen, but when I wake up,

(17:10):
it's gone. But if I'm in a bad dream and
I'm trying to get out of it, I'll wake up,
like I'll make myself wake up and fall right back asleep,
and I'll be right back where I was in the
bad dream, and I can even get up and go
to the bathroom and walk around for a minute because

(17:32):
I'm just like, man, this dream sucks and I don't
want to be there. And then I go back to bed,
fall asleep and boom right back at it.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
I mean, do you have what you consider to be
dreams about being taken or being around entities or.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
Anything like that somebody? Sometimes I mean, I can't say
like I'm seeing getting probed or you're seeing anything anything specific,
but it's just like an overall feeling of terror. It's
darkness and like a stuck somewhere that I can't get

(18:12):
out of that type thing, and nothing specific. I wish
it was specific. You'd probably helped or make it worse,
but either way it'd be better. I think.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Do you wonder if some of these are not dreams,
Like if you're waking up on the floor, maybe they
put you back in the wrong spot. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
That's you know. Sometimes I know, like I normally, when
you fall out of bed, you got like, oh shit,
I fell out a bit man, like it wakes you up.
But there have been a couple of times when I
just flat woke up on the floor, like I'll be
sleep sleeping on the couch or something years ago had

(18:58):
happened a few times and I just wake up on
the floor. But it was like a low rider couch
and I'm like, oh man, I must just fallen off so,
but yeah, I mean, I gotta say I've thought of
that before.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
It's a scary thought though, So I would be like
you would be like, oh, it's just a shitty dream,
just a exact bummer of a dream. So these sleep
disturbances happened literally right after this incident for you guys.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, before that, I was a man, hard, hard sleeper,
and it never I never had any sleep problems at all.
Sometimes I couldn't get to sleep at night when I
was a kid, But I also had restless legs bad
and stuff like that. You know, I was off from

(19:49):
the last person in my house to fall asleep. I
could hear everybody else snoring and saw on logs. But
it wasn't like I was up all night. I was.
It just took could be a minute to fall asleep,
and once I was out, I was out. I just
and that was it. Nothing weird about dreams, No terrors,
no paralysis, no lucidity. I couldn't control anything. Just a

(20:16):
dream was a dream.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
I do wonder, though, if the one guy that really
refuses to say anything about this, if he actually remembers
quite a bit more about what went on in that
little over an hour time period.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah, I see. I he was like a friend of
a friend, and so I knew him that we were
both there because the guy driving my friend his brother
owned the land and it was like, you know, from
where we were up a couple hours north up outside

(20:54):
of Spokane, and so there were a lot of people
that were kind of in the click that went hunting
with his family and that third guy, and both of
these guys are gone now, so I can't. I couldn't
talk to him, you know if I want, if I
wanted to about it, but he just flat he fly refused.

(21:17):
He was like, I don't know what you guys are
talking about. It were like, you saw here, it's a
pickup We're in a pickup truck. You saw the same
shit we did. And he's like, I don't know what
you're talking about. Just refuse. And I asked my other
buddy about it one time when we were we were
talking about the dreaming. I don't even remember how that
came up, but we were talking about getting this lucid

(21:41):
dreaming out of it. Oh, it's because I was asking
him if he had any other sleep trouble and he's like, no,
but I can dream like a freaking maniac now, And
I said, well, what about the other guy. You know,
he's like, I don't know. He won't talk to me
about he won't say a word about it.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, I bet he remembers something pretty dark, maybe you're scary.
Maybe he actually does remember seeing a craft or some
weird lights, something close to what happened to Drevis Wolton
and fire in the sky, something like that. You know,
I mean, I know it's very dramatized.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
But we met Travis to a couple of years. Got
what a great guy he is.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Yes, and he's never changed his story. And even the
people that didn't like him, they they said what he
said and they all passed the line detector tests.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
So yeah, yes, and just a straight shooter, such a calm, quiet,
genuine guy.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah. And I appreciate the fact that he's like, hey,
the movie is very dramatized from my actual version, and
he's he's always said that, And I think that he's
always said that the Paranormal Witness episode that I forget
who did that, if it was Discovery, but he said
that was the closest rendition to his actual experience. So

(23:04):
I always like to put that out there. I think
that you can watch those online somewhere. But anyway, Okay,
so Taylor, you mentioned you said the B word, you
said bigfoot, So why don't we talk a little bit
about that.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
I got okay, I got no firsthand like visions of
but I have. First of all, I was hunting again.
It's a hunting one and it's in two separate parts
of the state. You'll be familiar with both of them.

(23:38):
But I was elk hunting with my brother and a
friend on the in the Blue Mountains outside of Walla Walla.
And the Bigfoot guys have been there on film a
few times. And we're camped out and they were sleep

(24:00):
in the tent and I had a pick up with
a camper on it, so I was sleeping in there,
and uh, I didn't hear anything all night long. I heard,
you know, the wind was blowing a little bit, and uh,
my brother hadn't been around elk much and he's like, man,

(24:21):
the wind was blowing through the tent poles all night
long and all morning long, and it was waking me
up and pissing me off. And the guy that was
with goes that wasn't the wind blowing. That was elk bugling,
I think, and he goes, but it didn't really sound
like it. But I thought it was elk bugling and
I was like, oh, what was it And he said,

(24:43):
I don't know. It just sounded like a bunch of
screaming and hollering. He said, well, I don't it's could
have been who knows. And uh. Anyway, so we walked,
got our stuff ready, sunlight. Uh. We were walking down
and they were talking about this. Then we got quiet
because we were getting close to the bottom where we'd

(25:05):
seen small herd the day before, and we heard stuff
running through the brush and it was just daylight and
we couldn't really see anything. We just got out slapped
in the face with the weirdest, grossest smell. It was
like it was like being the last person in a

(25:28):
taxi in August in downtown Vegas. The freaking body sweat
and it was just horrible, mixed with a little bit
of just general musk and cat pee. It was just brutal.
And I was like, well, man, it's an elker running.
And it was right about rut season and I was

(25:50):
new too, It's not like I knew what was going on.
I was like, man, I know, they kind of pee
on themselves and they go crazy, and that's probably what
it is. We kept walking and we just we just
smelled this stanch and heard stuff running through this tick brush.
But like I said, we never and we never saw anything.

(26:11):
So that was it. No elk, there were no elk around.
They were all gone. Everything was gone. We didn't see
any deer, which was highly unusual for that area, and
so we went home. That was it. That was that story.
And then about two years later, I had a friend

(26:31):
of mine that another guy, just a straight shooter. We
never even talked about anything weird or anything. And we'd
just been playing a poker game and this guy grew
up in Yakama and we got done playing or crivage
tournament it was, and we were just hanging out talking
and he goes, you know, I saw bigfoot once and

(26:54):
I was like what and he's like, yeah, when I
was a kid, me, me and my dad and we're
up hunting outside of Yakamar around that cheese again. He's like, yeah,
it was a female and I you know it was
a female and he's like because they have big Harry boobs.
And I was like, well that didn't Yeah, I got you,

(27:18):
he said. He was just walking out of the brush
and he was being quiet, and he saw what he
thought was a chimpanzee like Michael Jackson's little pet monkey
by this stream, and he's like, man, what the hell
is a monkey doing out here up in the cascades.
And then he looked and he saw a big one

(27:42):
leaning over the stream scooping water out like a human
wood and drinking out of it, and he he was
making enough noise. She looked up, and that's when she
stood up, and he saw the big hairy boobs and
she held her arm out and the little one ran
to her and they ran in the bushes. And he's

(28:04):
like telling me all this. I'm like, why are you
telling me this? And goes, I don't know. I never
tell anybody about it. I thought you'd be a guy
that would appreciate it. I was like, oh, yeah, that's
pretty cool. So the next season I went hunting with
him because he I usually hunted over there on the
east side in the Blue Mountains, and he hunted up

(28:25):
there in the Cascades and he's like, yeah, we'll go
up there to the spot. I just go with my
dad where we saw the Bigfoot and it's like cool,
and so we got up there and we woke up
and there was like a hot, steamy elk proof about
ten feet outside of our trailer door that we'd been

(28:48):
slept in. And we're like, man, awesome, this is a
good sign. So we took off. We'd been walking for
about thirty minutes and we came up to a stream
and he's like, this is the stream we were about
a mile away. This is the stream I was telling
me about where we saw that bigfoot. I was like,

(29:11):
oh cool. And so we were walking for I don't know,
fifteen twenty minutes and just got hit in the face
with that same exact stench that we got when we
were in Walla Walla. And I was like, man, what's that.
He goes, that's it, and I go that's what and
he goes, that's exactly what I smelled when we saw
it when I saw that Bigfoot when I was a kid.

(29:35):
And we looked and we didn't see anything, and then
we heard stuff on the other side. This stream is
like literally maybe six feet across. It's just a tiny
little thing that trickled down and the water was all
muddy from something running in it, and we could hear
stuff crashing through the bushes. But again it could have

(29:58):
been elk deer fa who knows. But it was that
same exact stench that I smelled a few years earlier
in the Blues. And then I got thinking. Right then,
I was like one my brother and the other guy

(30:19):
we were with at that time about the sounds they heard,
and you know, the who have been in the eighth
calls and everything else. I was going just thinking, man,
they might have been hearing Bigfoot that night. Who knows.
So neither time did I see anything. I didn't see footprints,
I didn't even really hear anything, but both times I

(30:41):
got the same stench that people talk about, and it
could have been who knows.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, I'm really jealous of that sighting of your friend
there who finally told you that story. That is a
very cool Bigfoot setting.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
Yeah, And he, like I said, he's a guy. He
didn't tell anybody. There were like eight of us that
played cribbage, and he waited till everybody else was gone.
It was me and him and we were just sitting
around talking and you know, we talked about UFOs and
weird shit before and I was like well, why where

(31:19):
did that come from? Like, I don't know. I just
figured you'd appreciate it. But he's not a guy that
told you know, people that story. He didn't go around
like even when other people at work had start talking
about weird stuff. We were working together for years. People
had start talking about weird stuff and seeing this and that,

(31:40):
and he wouldn't go Well, esually I saw Bigfoot. He
was just very specific about who he told about it
because he didn't want people thinking he was a kook.
But the story was so specific and so out of nowhere,
there was no reason to believe him.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Well, how about we talk a little bit about the Chupacabra.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah, we were kind of nuclear based again for a while,
or a few times. We worked. Me and the ex
wife worked refuel outages at the commercial nuclear plants. I'll
go down for you know, six or twelve weeks in
the old days. One well, they're redoing their fuel and

(32:28):
they go in and kind of work on that process,
and so you get to see a lot of the country.
You know, you travel around, you make good money. And
we're down at the South Texas Project in Bay City, Texas,
and there were you work six twelve hours days in

(32:50):
a row, and then you get a day off, and
that's usually just kind of doing laundry and passing out
and regrouping for the next you know. And so we'd
been doing that for like six or seven weeks, and
it was our last last weekend there, and I started
seeing uh signs up around town for like a town

(33:13):
wide rummage sale type thing in Lagrange. And I was
going to Grange and I talked, I asked somebody there
at local and I goes that, like the Zzy Talk
song Lagrange. They're like, yeah, it's just right down the
road here. I was like, that is awesome. I gotta
go find his clothes. So and the wife was really

(33:34):
big into that rummage sale, yard sale type stuff. So
and you know, like, okay, cool, it's Saturday, we're done,
let's let's go down there. We had a kid. The
poor little guy was too young to know what was
going on. He was only like ten months old at
the time or so. But so the three of us

(33:57):
were packing the truck with all our stuff and we're
driving from Bay City to Lagrange. And again this was
this was nineteen ninety eight, and I had no no
clue about Cuba copper or anything. But we're driving, and

(34:17):
we left early in the morning because we'd been getting
up early anyway, and we wanted to get there. I
was driving. Out the corner of my eye, I saw
something running along the road and I was like, man,
there's a dog or some kind of animal running. And
my wife looked over, and right when she looked over,

(34:38):
this thing started to running across the road in front
of the truck. So I almost stopped, and it was
running pretty fast. But it's like my brain couldn't figure
out what it was because it was moving like a cat,
like it looked like a mountain lion or a cougar,
like a big cat, but it had the head of
a dog. It was like an obvious dog hit but

(35:01):
it ran like a cat, and it was like blueish
gray with spots on it and stuff, like a very
odd color to be any animal that I'm familiar with.
But it ran across the road and was gone, and
we just liked to look at each other and we're like,
what the hell was that? And you know, I'm just

(35:25):
a kid from Washington, So just being in that part
of Texas, I was seeing alligators and buzzards and all
kinds of armadillos animals that I'd never seen before. And
I was really outdoorsy guy at the time. I was like, man,
I got no idea what the hell that could have
been anyway, So and we talk about it every now

(35:48):
and then over the next year or two, but neither
one of us. I didn't have any idea what it was.
And then I was watching the Old Unsolved Mysteries with
Robert Stack and it was a cheap a cabra and
she looks over at me and she's like, shit, that's
what we saw in Texas. And I was like, yeah,

(36:08):
that is and like it was exactly what Breed Loves did,
the chup oficabra one with the Elmendorf beast. And after
I saw that, I was like, man, that is like exactly,
almost to a t, what we saw when I was younger.

(36:30):
I know what a coyote looks like. I've seen hundreds
of coyotes. We used to get in the mid eighties.
You got decent money for the pelts and just for
to help farmers out during caving season. We'd go out
and the pastures and shoot coyotes and we'd actually turn
the pelts in and pay for the AMMO and the

(36:53):
you know, gas money. And so I've seen. I know
what they look like, and I know how big they are,
and I know what they look like mange, and I
know what they look like in different color phases, and
how big they are. This thing we saw, you know,
we didn't see it for a long time, but we
saw really well and really close, and it was healthy
and muscled, and it moved like a cat. It just

(37:16):
like I said, it looked like a dog. And the
closest thing I've seen is that some of those clips
on the Elmondorf Beast, which I found out later was
also not far from where we were, in between Bay
City and Lagrange there.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Have you seen. It's been on TV quite a bit,
but there's a woman in Texas that supposedly has one
of these. They call them the quote unquote Texas blue Dogs.
It's stuffed in our house. The whole thing. Have you
seen that? Is that similar as well?

Speaker 3 (37:50):
That's very similar. The one. The one we saw was
it was like thicker, It was a very it looked healthy.
I mean, it looked like like you could see muscles
moving underneath the skin, especially since there was no fur,
no hide. It really showed how toned and muscular this

(38:14):
thing was. That's why I thought it was a cat.
But and I mean I had the head of a
dog and it was and it was hard to describe.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
That's a cool siding, though. I would love to see
something like that.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, I mean it was right there. It was like
literally it had followed along the side, kind of kept
pace with this, and then there was a colvert in
the road and it didn't It would have had to
either get up on the road or go around at
or whatever, but it chose right then to cross the road.

(38:53):
So it was right in front of us, and it
was running pretty good, but still, like I said, you know,
it's got to get all the way across the road.
So we saw it for a good few seconds. All right.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
So next on the list we have an ish talking
relative and photos flying off of the wall.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah, it's just a little quickie I thought you might enjoy.
This was at the same house I lived in for
ten years, and it was at the same one that
when I locked up with the sleep paralysis at night,
I couldn't snap out of it until the three knocks and
then I'd like come out of it. Of this house.

(39:38):
I had pictures of a bunch of my relatives up
on my wall, like old eight x ten's and whatever,
of like old black and white pictures a great grandparents
and great grandparents, generations passed, and I had one of
my uncle in the early my grandpa in the early

(40:01):
thirties sitting on a harley out range georchard. And the
other side of my family really really stuffy, and they
were very, very religious. And my great grandfather was the

(40:23):
mayor of a pretty well known town in Utah, and
he's got a hall named after him at a university there,
and he was big in the church there, and he
was my dad tells us all kinds of stories about him,
and it's very different. The other side of my family.

(40:45):
They were kind of rednecks. Came up from Mexico, and
he's the one that had the harley, and I had
a picture of him on a buffalo hunt and this
other guy's just sitting in a straight back chair with
his hands clasped over a and my sister, you're also
pretty religious. Uh, I'm not, but they stayed with the

(41:08):
family belief. And they were visiting me one day and
we're like talking and they're looking up at the pictures
and they're like, oh, that's such a good picture of him,
and uh uh Grandma's and hands, and and then we
just the picture of the the other guy, great grandpa.

(41:28):
He's just sitting there all pious like almost like he
was looking down on the rest of them. And that
was kind of like the way I had it arranged,
which was in no particular order, but I had him
kind of up and over and and uh. Anyway, we
started kind of talking some crap about, uh, how he's
sitting there like he's better than everybody else, and like, well,

(41:49):
I'm sure he thought he was. He was the mayor
and he was the big dog. And uh. Then I
kept going a little further than I should have, even
than I would have with how kind of straight laced
my sisters are, and his picture just flew off the wall.
It didn't drop, it flew. It landed like three feet

(42:11):
away from the wall on the floor, and it landed
face up, and the glass shattered, and no other picture
on that wall moved, and they were all hung exactly
the same way. There was no earthquake, nothing hit the outside,
nothing else even jiggled or moved or anything, but that

(42:35):
picture of the guy that I had been shit talking
flew off the wall and landed face side up, and
it's the glass shattered. And that was the last time
my sisters went to my house too. They were like, man,
you can just come visit as a dad's house when
we come to down.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
You know that whole three knocks thing that would bring
you out of your sleep paralysis, there's definitely something to that, obviously.
Have you ever come across another encounter or experience where
they said that three knocks would bring them out of
their sleep paralysis.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
No, I've heard. I've heard stuff about three knocks meaning
something or or three knocks being a thing, but I've
never like experienced it at any time other than when
I was in a sleep paralysis and that, like I said,

(43:37):
it was just like it was just like if you're
sleeping somebody slaps you. I mean, I could come right
out of it.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Well, I mean, the three knocks is usually the mocking
of the Holy Trinity. So it is interesting that the
one picture that flew off the wall was this, you know,
supposedly very on the high horse pious man holding a Bible,
and then you have three knocks that brings you out
of this horrifying sleep paralysis. It's very scary to have

(44:07):
sleep paralysis from what I hear, so I don't know,
there's definitely something there.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, it was. It was interesting. Like I said, it's
only one weird thing, but it was freaking bizarre.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
That's one way to keep relatives out of the house,
right if you want you don't want visitors.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
Like, yeah, one way to do it, man. Yeah, all right.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Next, let's let's talk about a skin walker.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
All right. Before, before I got a real job and
turned into an adult, and when I was like nineteen
or twenty, I was working at this it's a lodge

(45:01):
thirty five forty miles from the Grand Canyon, and my
mom worked there way back, like in the fifties, and
my sister, my older sister worked there. They hired these
people were of a specific faith. The people had owned it,
and they hired people of basically of that faith. Or

(45:27):
they kind of recruited heavily at one of those Utah schools.
But they had this deal kind of where anybody that'd
worked there when as soon as they had kids, you know,
their kids were getting an interview and if things worked out,
they could go work there. Too, and they had a

(45:51):
like a restaurant, a gift shop with a bunch of
Indian art. There was a gas station, so there were
all kinds of jobs to do, and you lived there.
They had dormitories separated for girls and guys. And they
also had a lot of Native Americans working there that

(46:19):
did a lot of weaving. They sold a lot of
weaving and pottery and art and bead work out of
their gift shop. And so a lot of those people
had children and and they were mostly like the the
maids at the hotel. Uh there was a hotel attached
and some cabin rental cabins, and so it was kind

(46:44):
of a mixture of these native people and good college kids.
And I got an interview and and got the job
up there, and I was working in the out and
gas station, which at this time this was like mid

(47:07):
eighty eighty four ish, and so all I really was
was like filling cars up and cleaning windshield and hanging
out and not much to the job. And I didn't
really get along with a lot of the the people

(47:27):
they hired from their university weren't my kind of people.
So I moved my stuff out of there into the
behind the gas stations where all the native people lived.
And so I fell right in with those guys and
became really good friends with them really quickly. And so

(47:52):
they were telling me, you know, yeah, you need to
come down and hang out with us on the reservation sometimes.
So we'd get a day off and I'd run down there.
It was about a two hour drive maybe to get
down to the reservation and just the edge of it.
And I went down there with them a few times
and had a great time. Man. I learned all kinds

(48:15):
of stuff about their their lore and their life and
everything else. And well, I walked in one day and
one of them was listening to a like I straight
out straight out of the Western movie The Indian the
beating on their drums and singing. I don't want to

(48:35):
be disrespectful of racist, but it was just like you'd
imagine and all the movies. And I was like, for
you really listening to that. They were like, Hey, this
is big. We're trying to learn this. I want to
be a singer in the ceremonies. I want to be
in the one of the drum guys. And and I

(48:55):
was like, I didn't know it was that big. Of
a deal and they're like, yeah, well, in a couple
of weeks, we're having a I can't remember pow wow.
And he says come to me. You know, They're like,
come down to that and check it out. So I
went down to that and they had Indian dancing and singing,

(49:16):
and it's like I was just fascinated by all this
because you know, I'm like nineteen twenty year old guy
that had never really been away from home, and I
was just like it fascinated. And so when it was over,
when the season was over, I didn't have anywhere, you know,
I was just going to go home. I didn't have

(49:38):
a job at home, I was out of high school,
wasn't going to college. And they're like, hey, why don't
you come down just come hang out and live with
us for a while. So I'm like, yeah, absolutely. So
I just went down there and I was staying with

(49:59):
these guys and kind of right on the edge of
the Navajo and Hopi Reservation is where we started out,
and I was just living the life. We'd hang out
every night, just hang out around fires talking. They had

(50:20):
a house that they lived in the parents kind of
all lived separate and they gave the kids one house,
so it was all just a full time party in
video games and all this stuff. And I was just
kind of getting immersed in the culture and how life
was out there, and the good part about how they

(50:44):
didn't have have to worry about a whole lot, but
also the struggle and that there really wasn't a whole
lot out there. And they never talked. Every now and
then they talk about like the skin walker thing, but
they really didn't like to talk about it, and they
they talk about it just enough to scare me, like

(51:04):
out around a fire, They're like, oh, yeah, they hate
white people and uh and then they started laughing. I know,
it's all good. And after I'd been out there for
like three weeks or a month. Again, not to sound racist,
but I realized that I, like, there was no other
white people out there, and I was just like, man,
I know how these people feel. You know. It was

(51:25):
kind of getting an appreciation for being the odd guy
out and there was there was one other white guy
and he drove, but he was an EMT and he
owned his own ambulance when he was married to a
Native girl. And people that got sick or got cuts
or just needed a little help. Instead of driving all

(51:50):
the way to uh place with a doctor trying to
mess with government bureaucracy and insurance. They come to this
guy and he'd patch him up or hook him up,
give him, you know, medicine that he had or that
he could get hold of. But he was the only
other white guy that that was out there. And anyway,

(52:19):
after I'd been out there for about a month, they
were like, yeah, we're gonna go way back to sheep camp.
It's time where we're going to shear the sheep and
dehorned the calves and why. It was like all this
cowboys stuff that I I only seen in movies and
heard of. And I was like, hell, yeah, I want
to go. And they're like, man, it is way out
there and this it's like Hogan's to mud huts or

(52:44):
tents and that's it. And we're going to be out
there for like two weeks. And I was like, no,
that's cool. I'm down. And they said, okay, we got
to go to there was this other thing kind of
like a big community say, I don't remember what they
called it, but it's where they bought it got all

(53:05):
the provisions to go on this to go up there
for a couple of weeks. So we were there and
we're buying all the getting water and soda, pop and
food and stuff, and they sell for the fry bread.
A lot of these guys. People would buy like fifty

(53:26):
pounds or bigger bags of flour and then they put
it into zip block bags and they'd sell it at
this bizarre thing we were at for people to take
up in the hill, said cook with. And so we
were sitting there and I saw a bunch of these
big ziploc bags filled with flour and I said, oh,

(53:47):
look at that. We can even get some coke to
take up there. And I mean, it is one hundred
percent of kiddy. And I'd never touched cocaine in my life.
I wouldn't have known if it would have hit me
in the head. But I saw movies and I don't
look like a brick of coke. And uh so they
kind of laughed. And then Uh, this guy, big older

(54:11):
uh Indian Navaho guy, uh with kind of glaucomas in
his eyes, he says, oh, funny with your cocaine joke.
And I just turned around and uh, he says, billy
Ghana with their cocaine and bill agana just means white person.
I'm probably not saying it right, and it's not a

(54:36):
derogatory term, it's just the word. But the way he
was saying it, it was sliding out of his mouth
and he was looking at me. It was just like
he was calling me the N word, and uh, I
was like what and uh, my friends just saw this
guy and they were like, oh, oh no, he was
just kidding. It's no, we're sorry, and uh, he said

(55:00):
it again. He kept saying it be a gun and
cocaine and you brought the alcohol and you guys did this,
and like all of a sudden, the fact that I
was white and the only white I felt really terrified
for a minute. And my friends again were like, no,
he's sorry, you know, and I said, hey, I'm sorry.

(55:20):
It was just a joke. I didn't mean to offend you.
I didn't, you know, I'm sorry, and they're like kind
of trying to hustle me away from this guy. And
then he kept saying it, and I finally, you know,
I was young and dumb, and I turned around like, hey, man,
I apologize, I'm sorry, and my friends grabbed me and

(55:43):
they're like no, no, let's go, let's go, just keep going,
And the guy was still yelling and kind of being
a dick the whole time. Were they were hustling me away,
and I was like, what's up with that guy? And
two of my friends just shut up and they wouldn't
even talk. And uh, the one guy that I was
really good friends with, he said, he's just you don't

(56:06):
want to mess with that guy.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
He's uh, the people say he's a witch and that
his family people people just stay away from him.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
I said, what do you mean a witch? Like a
like a witch witch and it's like, yeah, they do
bad magic and they live out by their you know,
out by themselves, and uh, you don't want to piss
them off. And I'm like, well it's a little late
for that. And uh he's like, well, you know, don't

(56:38):
worry about it. You know, we're going to go up
sheep camp. Everything's going to be cool. We'll get back
and things will die down. So we go up to
this sheep camp for a week and we're sharing sheep
de horning calves. I was having the time of my life.
I saw kinds of cool stuff and learned a bunch
of stuff. And then they were like, all right, we're

(57:01):
gonna go see my grandma before we head back to town.
And she lived like even another ten miles out in
the middle of nowhere from the sheep camp that was
fifteen miles from nowhere. So now we are like out
in the middlest of the middle of nowhere, and there's

(57:22):
like three or four little hogans out there where this
guy's grandma and one of his uncles and some other
relatives lived. And we were out there for a night
and we're having a great night and good food, hanging
out by the fire. That was the furthest from civilization
I've ever been, and the night sky was so clear

(57:45):
you could see. It was amazing, and I said, I
was having the time of my life. And the next night,
the second night, we were hanging out and it just
kind of got it felt weird. All of a sudden,
things felt weird. And his grandma had three dogs, like

(58:10):
a healer's cattle dogs, and they were like, you know,
they're pretty badass little dogs, and they jumped up from
the fire and went and ran into the house. And
my friends like, man, it's weird. They never do that.
And so we're sitting there by the fire, and we

(58:34):
hear this like again, not to be racist, but like
in the movies, like a war cry type sound like
you would hear if you're watching a movie about the natives.
And it kind of was jarring out there in the
pitch black in the middle of nowhere, and I'm like,

(58:56):
what the hell is that? And they said inside, so
we go inside, and we heard it again, and then
we started to hear like iotes yapping, but it was
like they were running away. And then there was a deeper,

(59:18):
more grun to growl, and we look out the window
and there was a light like a torch, way far out,
and then it was closer, and then it was closer,
and it was and it was like running in a zigzag,
but running way faster than like a person or an

(59:38):
animal should have been able to in this, like I said,
a zig zag pattern. And we're like, man, what the
hell is that? And the dogs are freaking out and
we were hearing this, uh wolf howl and seeing this
light zig zag and uh. His grandma had a It

(59:59):
was pretty standard. Everybody had guns out there, had a
old rifle sitting over by the doorway, and they didn't
it didn't have a real door toy had like a
big rug hanging in the doorway, and the dogs were
going crazy, and I was like, what the hell is

(01:00:20):
going on? And she just said, just you guys, sit down,
and the light stopped and the light went out, and
then we heard more of this weird sound, and then
there was a smack on the backside of this hogan
we were in, and then another went on the side
of it, and then right out like in front of

(01:00:43):
the door aways we heard the howl again or whatever
it was, and she stuck the rifle out the front
of the thing and shot, and then nothing happened. We
kept hearing stuff, and she shot a second time and
we heard like a heap, like a dog or something

(01:01:06):
got hit, and uh then if heer dogs settled down
and then they ran outside and so they like were like, well,
everything must be cool now the dogs are fine. It's gone.
And I said, what the hell was all of that? Hell?
What's going on? And then and my friends wouldn't say
anything to me. They didn't want to talk about it.

(01:01:28):
And then their grandma was like, what's going on, Like
she knew something was up, and so then they told
her the whole story about me and the cloudcoma guy
at the market and she just shook her head and
she said, you guys are messing with stuff you shouldn't
mess with. And I said it was you know, it

(01:01:51):
was my fault, but I didn't. I wasn't messing with anything.
I just made a stupid joke, and uh, it wasn't appreciated.
I tried to apologize, but maybe I was kind of,
you know, being rude to the guy even in my apology.
And the next morning it was blite, like maybe two

(01:02:13):
hours after that, and she's like, well, you guys should
probably go and get back to where you're going. So
we went back to town and we were hanging out
for a couple of days. Nobody talked all the way
back to town and probably ten words like the whole time,
and then we never really talked about it that day.

(01:02:33):
And then the next day I was like, man, is
this something we should talk about? And they're like, man,
you don't even want to know. That night that an
ambulance driver came over to the house. He was hanging
out and they're playing video games and stuff, and he goes, oh, Taylor,
I saw your buddy yesterday. I was like, what, buddy,

(01:02:54):
and he goes, the old man he came in two
nights ago and we dug a bullet out of his ass.
And I was like yeah. We were like what, and
he goes, yeah, the old man came in, we dug
a thirty caliber bullet out of his ass. I was

(01:03:14):
like wow. And then my friend's like, man, we shouldn't
even And I was like, I don't know. I don't
know your I mean, I know your traditions and I
respect you, but I'm going to tell him. And I
told the guy this story and he was he was like, yeah,
I'm not going to add anything to that, but I've

(01:03:36):
helped this family a couple of times, and I've seen
shit that I don't want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Holy crap. I was wondering if that was going to happen.
But when you actually said it, I was like, Okay,
that is okay. Wow. Did you how much longer did
you stay after that? Or did you boogie?

Speaker 5 (01:03:59):
Well?

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
I was getting to leave anyway. I'd been okay for
like a month. Yeah, so, but I stayed for another
week or so. And this also, this is nineteen eighty four.
I still talk to the guy all the time. I mean,
we're friends, but we have never talked about that again.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
So this what you perceived as a torch light off
in the distance when it was quote unquote running back
and forth whatever it was, somebody holding it or whatever
it was. Did it dim or did the shape of
it alter when it was in this zig zag pattern?

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
No? And that's what That's something that was really odd
because I mean it looked like a flame, like a
flickering flame, you know, but there's like, just in pure physics,
how the hell could a flame keep lit moving at
that speed. But but it's like we wouldn't see like
you could see the flame. It was like you saw

(01:04:57):
it here, then you saw it here, then you saw
it here in here, and.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
It was moving faster than a person could run.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Oh shit. Yeah yeah, it was crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
I love though how the Grandma's like you all need
to go now bye, thanks for stopping bye.

Speaker 6 (01:05:14):
See.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Yeah, she didn't kick us out in the middle of
the night, but as soon as it was she was like, man, guys,
bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
That would have sucked out in the middle of the
night with whatever is out there.

Speaker 6 (01:05:27):
Yeah. So did you.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
See the old man again before you left?

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
No? And I'm glad I didn't he's I mean, he
was was terrifying as it was. This guy he was
he was very tall and thick. And I said, most
of these again not to sound racist, but generally speaking,
they have very black or dark hair and dark eyes.

(01:05:55):
And uh, this guy was old, so he had long
white hair. But his eyes were like almost cataract. They
almost looked like a like a bluish hard to describe,
but there. They were terrifying, and he had he just

(01:06:15):
and I thought about it even at the time, like
he just threw off this evil, shitty aura. But at
the time, I was thinking it might just because he's
pissed at me. You know, I said something I was
it was stupid. You know, these people have been through
a lot, and sure, you know, white people screwed him
over and brought into alcohol and caused all these problems.

(01:06:39):
And you know, I was there and I was a
target and I was saying stupid stuff. So maybe I
just brought it out in him. But he really did
project like not a whole lot of goodness coming out
of him.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Holy smokes. See, and even with whatever he had going
on with his eyes, I hazard to say, he could
see just fine and see a whole lot better than
we could, like another kind of sight.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's uh, I said. And these guys
they don't, like I knew what skin they told me.
They'll tell you what a skin markers are, but they
don't just sit around and talk about them or the
ones I was my friends didn't. And then like when
we were out in the desert in the middle of

(01:07:27):
the night and they started saying something about, you know,
they love white people and they just scare me, just
to give me a little crap, and then but just
long enough to kind of get me fired up. And
then boot we'd be talking about girls and cars and
guns and like normal stuff, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
And there was no hint of headlights or tail lights
or hearing any vehicles pull up or leave during that
whole experience.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
No, no, And it was coming straight through the desert.
It would have been like a bit like a Baja
Wow through nowhere. There was the only road going in
and out actually to where this little uh group of
Hogans was was the one that we drove in on.

(01:08:19):
And this came from like a forty five degree angle
direction out from the desert towards it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
After you left, did you, I mean because you say
you still talk to one of the guys that you
were out there with. Did did the old dude ever
bring anything up? Did anyone ask him? Is your ass okay?
After getting shot? After stock and the white guy, like,
you know, did anything ever come up?

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
Nobody said, Nobody said a word. They saw him, you know,
they'd see him around town at that uh. And I
can't remember what they call that now, but it's just
like a big general square and it's it's kind of
kind of like out on the road side. If you've
ever been through the Southwest, you know, on the road side,
they'll sell their beadwork and jewelry, and it's like that,

(01:09:09):
only it's actually deeper in, so they're not trying to
sell each other their own shit. It's just kind of
like a big rummage sale. But they sell a lot
of food items there also. And and that guy would
come in him and his uh. I guess he had
a two sisters and a mom that was still alive.

(01:09:30):
I don't even know how, because this guy looked like
he was one hundred and ten, but supposedly he had
a mother that was still alive that would come in
every now and then too. And my friend Phil. He said,
people just stay away from them because they're creepy, and
everybody knows that they're into weird shit, but nobody says
anything to them, or you know, everybody's kind of afraid

(01:09:51):
of me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I can see why. Well that that makes sense, So maybe,
you know, it wasn't such a great question because I
think that the prevailing thought is we don't say the
word skinwalker around here. We don't talk about people that
we think might be skin walkers around here. We just

(01:10:12):
keep our mouths shut. So that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
That's why I like the ambulance driver. He just as
soon as he said that he'd been out there and
done stuff for him, he was sorry that he said it,
like he didn't even want to talk about it, you know, Yeah,
he didn't want to bring any bad And then I
was even thinking. I was like, man, yeah, if it's
at a point where if they really are into all

(01:10:38):
kinds of their weird shit magic and it's something that
they still need some flunky EMT to drive out there
and has broke down old ambulance to help them with
normal medicine, then it must be bad and it must
be something that I don't know if they swear into silence,

(01:10:59):
or he's just terrified of him, you know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Yeah, it could be either way. I would imagine though,
considering what you witnessed, I'd imagine they are absolutely terrified
of that dude. Ooh, I love that one. That one
is creepy, Taylor, holy shy sound. Oh my god. To
have him actually have a wound that matched after they

(01:11:24):
had been telling you, nope, nope, let's just let's squash this,
let's go to sheep camp. Everything's cool, everybody's cool. Well
it wasn't so cool. I guess he held on too
that for a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Well, yeah, that's and it was, like I said, it
was like, I mean, I'm sure they've been out there
for generations, so everybody knows everybody. But still just for
if that's really what happened. For this guy to pick
the fact that I'm with the grandkids of somebody and
he knows that we're gonna after sheep camp or gay

(01:11:57):
and how did he know where we were when we
were there always struck me as odd too.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Oh yeah, that's true, because everyone knew you're going to
sheep camp, but maybe not everyone knew that you were
visiting the grandma.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
Yeah, that came up at the very last minute. It
was like, well, shit, we're this close, let's go see
my grandma.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
Okay, oh, man, well that probably means that he was
watching y'all something. Do you remember anything weird during the
time at sheep camp?

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
No, man, it was a blast. Like I said, I
had the time of my life. I saw. You know,
I'd never been around I mean a city boy. It
was like only a town of thirty two thousand and
thirty thousand when I was grown up. It still I
had no experience with livestock at all. So watching the

(01:12:50):
sheep shearing and every night we were like barbecue and
sheep and goats, and it was I just was seeing
all kinds of stuff I've never seen. It was a blast.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
That does sound so fun, especially just every night you're
just you're out, you're out of doors, you're you're having
the campfires, you're seeing the dark sky above you. But
holy smokes, that one as a big wallser Okay, so last,
but not lease, let's talk about what happened in Pasco.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
Oh, it's another weird one. Like like with tight ststers.
I got no explanation for this one either. I was
working like a midshift while I was getting home at
midnight roughly, and I would park my truck, walk around

(01:13:45):
the house and go up the deck and go in
through the sliding door in the back. And we had
one hundred and twenty pounds raw wiler at the time,
and he'd always meet me back there at the fence
when I came in. Then my wife at the time,

(01:14:06):
and my kid was like my youngest was there. He
was like five ish. Probably they'd be asleep, and so
I'd hang out with a dog, watch TV for a
while and go to bed. I was coming around the
side and gate the like I always do, and the
dog wasn't there, and It's like, man, what's up with that?

(01:14:30):
And like right then every hair on my body stood
up and I was just like almost terrified in fear
for no reason. It's got to be like when there's
a grizzly bear about to jump out of the bushes
ash here or something. I looked up and there was
this guy looked kind of like a I don't know,

(01:14:52):
like a like a picture a cartoon genie maybe had
like a it looked like a dark skinned Indian the
swami kind of guy, like with the traditional cartoon turbine
and that stuff that you have. I was just like, whoa.

(01:15:14):
And when I could talk, I was like like, who
are you? He goes, who do you think I am?
I said, I don't know who are you? And he goes,
you know who I am? And I said, I don't
know who you are? Who are you? And what do
you want? And he goes, you know what I want?

(01:15:36):
And then it's like clicking in my head that his
mouth isn't moving, but I can hear him talking. He's
like not really floating, but doesn't seem to be on
the ground, and there's kind of a like almost like
he's a three D projection. But I know if I
stuck my finger out, I could poke him in the

(01:15:57):
chest the very odd look. And I said again, I said,
I don't know who you are? And he's like, you
know who I am? And I said, what the hell
do you want? And he's like, you know what I
want and we'll meet again. And then he was gone,

(01:16:19):
just like gone, and I was like, what the hell
was that? And I walked upstairs and my big tough
dog was laying underneath the kitchen table. He wouldn't even
come out. And then he came out when I came
through the door, and I went and I woke my
wife up and I told her, and she's like, what

(01:16:40):
I think? I said, I just saw the devil when
I walked in. I said, I just saw the devil.
She's like, what the hell are you talking about? But again,
that's another one that was like twenty five years ago. Man,
nothing's happened since, and I don't know what the hell
it was, but it was very odd.

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Man, what did you do? Oh huh, we shall meet again.
That sounds so ominous? Did he say? Did he say
that last part in an ominous way?

Speaker 3 (01:17:08):
He just said, no, it was all very flat to me.
It was all very matter of fact. Yeah, like you
know who I am. It's like end of this day.
I don't. I mean I wanted it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
You're like, whoa, I really don't. That's why I asked.

Speaker 3 (01:17:25):
And you know what I want? Well, actually I don't.
You're scaring the crap out of me. And I don't
know who you are.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
I mean, so you say you looked up and there
he was. Was he standing in front of you in
your path to get into the house.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Yes, It's like like I don't nowhere and like I said,
took me a minute to move because I was it
was that fight or flight thing, and every hair on
my body and I was like almost frozen for a minute,
and I was just terrified and I didn't know why,
like and adrenaline shot.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Well, also, your one hundred and twenty pound rottweiler knew
from inside the house that some really bad stuff was
going on outside.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Yeah, I mean every night that was our thing. He
was out there waiting for me, like you know, he'd
hear my truck and so he'd come over the side
gate and that was it. But not tonight he was inside.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
What was this guy wearing? What was his clothes?

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Like that was That's the other thing he was wearing.
I'm gonna come across as the most racist person was
ever on your show. But he looked like a like
a swami, like a like a Pakistan Indian type, that
dark dark skin like that and the cloth loincloth type

(01:18:57):
thing that they wear like I don't know if that's
like oldie time biblical stuff or if it was like
like the Gurus and the swamis off a TV and cartoons.
Black hair, black.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Eyes, black eyes, no no whites in the eyes.

Speaker 3 (01:19:22):
Uh No, just black like supernatural demon eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
How far away do you think you were from him?

Speaker 3 (01:19:31):
I was close, like I said, man, if I had
the guts, I was close enough to poke him in
the chest to see that he was real, but probably
three feet three four feet away And it came out
of nowhere.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
And then describing as much detail as you can how
he left or poofed or whatever he did, it just
gone like he just did he fizzle loud or it
was like you blinked and then you open your eyes
and he's gone.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
That's it was there and then he was gone. Hmm,
no poof, no sizzle, no sound, no smell. Mouth never
moved and now And it took me a minute to
figure that out, like I said, because you know, he
kept saying the same stuff over and over. You know
who I am, you know what I want? Like the

(01:20:21):
third time he said it, I was like, damn, man,
his mouth isn't even moving. How am I getting this?

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
I mean, besides him floating in the air, I think
the mouth not moving would be one of the creepier parts,
just besides you know how he appeared in front of you.
Of course, did he ever move his hands or make
any gestures.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
No, no, like it was all my life. It could
have been a hologram if it wasn't for he didn't
do it and didn't do anything. Really, his face never
really changed, except that at the very end when he
said we'll meet again, he had this kind of a smirky,
crappy look on a grin on his face.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
I hope you don't have to meet him again. I
don't think that he was something good, especially since you're
primal fear kicked in even before you saw him.

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
Yeah, that's that was kind of a bummer.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Yeah, I mean we hear about that a lot in
various accounters where before they ever see anything, their their
body is telling them you're about to have a life
changing situation.

Speaker 3 (01:21:34):
Yeah. Yeah, that's what I mean. When read a lot
of stories and watch a lot of stuff on the
outdoors still, you know, and when people are getting tracked
by a mountain lion or there's a grizzly in the
bushes getting ready to jump on him, that sixth sense

(01:21:54):
kind of kicks in and they get locked up with adrenaline.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
Yeah, and that's even before well if they even see
what it is that's given them this this primal fear, right,
and sometimes they do see it and they have that confirmation,
which is horrifying, or maybe it's worse not to know.
I don't know. It could be.

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
Any kind of yeah, no thanks.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
Yeah, big no thanks on that. I mean, that's a
that's a no thanks sided that's a very unique one.
I hope that somebody hearing that will please reach out
to me because I would love to pass that along
to Taylor and go, You're not the only one to
see this devil genie dude, whatever the hell he is.

(01:22:39):
That's that's unique.

Speaker 3 (01:22:42):
That's why one of the things that got me to
call you. These are all just kind of little random stuff.
But I noticed a lot of times you have other
people that listen that have had similar stuff or know
someone that has, and they can kind of get answers yep.

Speaker 2 (01:22:59):
And a lot of times it's just the little details,
even in the bigger picture of things, that get somebody
to reach out. So I do hope that somebody does. So, Yeah,
as Taylor said, if you or someone you know, or
even if you've just heard it on another show, send
it along, because it's no none you know, out of
the two of us, it's not like you can listen
to every show that's out there. There's so many and

(01:23:21):
so many encounters online that are written. So if somebody
comes across something like that, that is extremely unique. But Taylor, I,
I thank you so much for being willing to come
on and share these.

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
No, thank you, I appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (01:23:39):
Well, I'm so. I was given a snake by my
parents business out of college. I've done these things in
my profession, I producing Little Black.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
But that's someone your story, that's.

Speaker 5 (01:23:53):
All gone, that's all possible, and I want to see them, Milion.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
What nobody does that is.

Speaker 7 (01:24:01):
Because we don't know ourselves except for listening to our eCos.

Speaker 5 (01:24:08):
And consulting our members. But then that's a really and
that again its aspect to.

Speaker 3 (01:24:14):
This question what are you? That is the meaning.

Speaker 5 (01:24:21):
We shall see how they play with the success or
buy the CODs to get you.

Speaker 3 (01:24:26):
To come out of your show and find out.

Speaker 6 (01:24:30):
Be very hard. It's it's, it's, it's, it's it's puss puss, puss,

(01:25:45):
puss puss.

Speaker 5 (01:26:21):
Send people for example, are quite divided on us. They
will say, no, we don't believe literally in reincarnation that
after your funeral grow you will suddenly become somebody different
to being somewhere else. They will say. Reincarnation means this
that if you're sitting here now, are really convinced.

Speaker 7 (01:26:43):
That you're the same person boarded at.

Speaker 4 (01:26:45):
The door half an hour ago, you'll be reincarnated.

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
If you are liberates now that you're done.

Speaker 5 (01:26:54):
The past hasn't been tested, The future doesn't existence. There
is only rest. That's the the wain is send Master.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
Do gets place said.

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
String?

Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
It does not become something.

Speaker 5 (01:27:12):
Because there is something any strings.

Speaker 6 (01:28:02):
Its puss puss, puss pusstss.

Speaker 7 (01:28:59):
Puss has the same idea in point four more Days,
where he says, when.

Speaker 5 (01:29:11):
You settle down in the train to read your newspaper
and so they were not the same person a while ago,
And live in the plan. If you think you are,
you are linking your moments up in the change. And
this is what binds the wheel of botland when you

(01:29:33):
know that every moment of which you are is the
only moment. This cans in des And the Master will
say to somebody, I cannot have a walk across the
room and he can be back, and he says, where
are your foot?

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
They've gone?

Speaker 4 (01:29:49):
So where are you?

Speaker 3 (01:29:50):
Who are you? When we are asked who we are.

Speaker 5 (01:29:53):
We usually give a kind of recipation of an infant
instring for instr