iNTO THE FRAY 523: The House of Ivy

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The infinite complaces people went to and pro fears about
their little affairs, serene in the assurance of their dominion
over this small binning fragment of solar driftwood, which, by
chance or design, Man has inherited out of the dark
mystery of time and face.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Apologies for my side of the audio for this episode,
something happened with the SD card via my roadcaster, so
this audio for my side is pulled from streamyard itself,
so that's why I sound a little bit more muffled
than usual. Apologies on this episode of Into the Fray,

(01:24):
I welcome Barry back on with me. Now this is
part four of my chats with Barry. We have everything
sectioned off, and the first chat was five ten, The
Boogeyman Chat number two was five seventeen. The Field of Screams.
Chat three is yet to be named or aired as

(01:45):
of right now, so I don't know where to point
you yet because it's not aired yet. And then today
the section is titled the House of Ivy And honestly, Barry,
you are great at naming your own episodes just because
of things that either happen to be labeled for the
whole section or a certain encounter or siting within said section,

(02:07):
So thank you for that. You've made it very easy
on me. I'm sure that I will title this one
in the House of Ivy, because by God, that's the
title of the section. But welcome back, Arry. I appreciate
all of this time that you've spent with me, and
there's more to come after this too.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
There's more to come, and I am back. Thank you
so much, Shannon for having me here again.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
We new so you mentioned that you probably were going
to set us up with timelines and moving from one
place to this said section of your experiences. So at
wherever we need to start, let's.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Do that, Okay, Yeah, you know I was thinking about
this the other day. How I was just thinking about
how my wife and I decided to move from South
Florida up to central Florida, and how worrisome that was
for me because you know, we had touched on the
first step pisoda, that I had a career going on

(03:02):
and so forth. You know, maybe some of your listeners
would be interested in some of the horror movies. I
can mentioned a couple of them before I get off
of this. Anyways, you know, we were kind of spinning
our wheels though down there, and you know, this is
the we had gotten married and we were living in apartments,
and then we were renting the condo down there, and

(03:25):
you know, if you're trying to make a career, a
young person trying to make a career in film and television,
and you're you know, I was living in Florida. It
was so unpredictable, you know, such an unpredictable business that
you know, you could be feast or famine type of thing.
You know. I had established a lot of freelance connections

(03:45):
for art and so forth, so I was able to
fill in a lot of the gaps in between projects.
But once I got married, you know, then I had
another person that was relying on me to keep things steady.
And I was used to the ko us, you know,
but we you know, we were trying to look for
something a little more calmer, I guess, and looking for

(04:10):
a job where maybe I could get benefits in that
which I was not finding. And of course I wasn't
ready to settle into that, you know, for a long time.
But anyways, we were talking about moving and I was
the one, you know that was really worried about that,
losing all the you know, probably about ten or eleven

(04:33):
years of professional connections and so on. But you know,
I knew that we probably should make a move in
some ways in the back of my head. But one
day I was dropping one of our cars was broke
down and I had to drop my wife off to
the salon, you know, and I was on my way

(04:54):
back home.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
It was a Saturday, I believe.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
So I drive by and there's a sign and it
says Psychic Fair, and out of nowhere, I just do
a U turn and I pull into some little holiday
inn and Plantation, Florida. I have like twenty five dollars
in cash on me, and I walked in there and
there's like psychic readings, you know, twenty twenty or twenty
five bucks.

Speaker 4 (05:18):
So I was gonna spend my last dollar to do.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
And it seemed crazy, but I'd been stewing in this decision,
you know, So I decided I look around. There's some
you know, tarot cars and incense and gems for sale
and so. But I'd never been to a psychic fair before,
so I thought it was interesting. And I walked in
and there's a tent set up, and I go to

(05:41):
get a reading and I walked in. As soon as
I saw the lady, I said something to her and
she looked at me and goes, oh, my goodness, you
just read my mind.

Speaker 4 (05:50):
You know, I don't remember what it was.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Whatever, the first thing that came into my mind just
came out of my mouth, and I surprised her, you know,
so we kind of clicked.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
And she's looking at me.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
She goes, oh, my gosh, I feel so frustrated looking
at you.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
I just can't.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
I don't know, you know, you have all this creative
energy and it's all, you know, just bundled up and
it's not being used.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Do we You know you should. I just feel a
very great frustration. And she looked at me. She goes,
are you thinking about moving?

Speaker 3 (06:22):
And I said, well, my wife has mentioned it several
times and we've had a discussion. She goes, oh my god,
pack your bags and go. I was shocked, you know,
I was like, what you know? She said, No, I
see amazing things. You just got to pack your stuff
up and go go for it. She goes, I see

(06:42):
life changing opportunities for you. You just need to make
this decision and do it. And so by the time
I left there, I was like, Wow, okay, this lady.

Speaker 4 (06:57):
I was kind of shocked she.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
At what she did, and she goes, I just she
actually said, I see you walking up to a large,
tall glass building and when you get to the top floor,
there's gonna be two men standing there at the door
waiting to greet you for your new career. And Okay,
that sounds a little weird, you know, but all right whatever.

(07:22):
And you know, after I left there, I confessed to
my wife that I spent my last dollar getting a
psychic greeting. So I'm sure she'd probably like, oh gosh,
why that's why she handles my money. By the way,
she's the practical one and I'm the guy that's the
spender and takes these crazy u turns at times in life.

(07:44):
But anyways, we began talking about this, and so we
decided to make a plan to come up to Central
Florida for a weekend to check things out. And while
we were on our way, I think, on either the
turnpike or on I ninety five, somewhere in between South

(08:05):
Florida and Central Florida. We're driving out in the middle
of nowhere, and I suddenly get a weird feeling it,
and I turned my head to the left to the
car that's right next to me. Ri I'm driving eighty
miles and seventy five eighty miles an hour, and it's
my boss and his wife and they look over at me.
It was like a slow motion, weird moment. It wasn't

(08:27):
like a happy joy joy thing. It was sort of
like seeing the Witch on the bicycle and Wizard of Oz,
you know, kind of riding your bicycle.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
Value.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
It was just a really strange thing that seems surreal.
But of course at that point my boss and his
wife were The place was not a I was trying
to attempt to work a more steady job, you know,
because of the production industry being so non steady, and

(08:57):
after a few big disappointments that occurred, I told my
wife I was going to try to buck up and
settled in a little bit. But this place was kind
of an abusive situation and a lot of talented artists
working there. But uh, yeah, it was not. It was
not a dream job. There was no benefits, I was underpaid,

(09:17):
and they were kind of jerky people. So I looked
over and when after that, I went, oh my god,
that is a sign where the decision.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
Is made we're going. So it was it was just wild.
You know.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
The odds of that were, you know, one in a million,
and yet it happened. So we ended up packing up
our bags and we moved to central Florida. I had
acquired a part time teaching art teaching job part time,
which gave me more courage to take the leap, and

(09:50):
so we got up to Uh. We got up here,
and actually I had worked. It was working six days
a week working at a bronze founder and then teaching
part time. So it was hard work, you know, and
I was used to that, but it was certainly not
my dream situation. But you're doing what you had to do.

(10:12):
And somewhere along that line. After within a few months
of us moving up back up here into another apartment complex,
which was not ideal, my wife looked at me and
she goes, I want.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
To buy a house, and I was like, what you crazy?
We can't buy a house.

Speaker 3 (10:28):
You know.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
It's like she's like, I'm tired of this. I want
to buy a house.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
So we began driving around looking at neighborhoods on our
weekends and our day off, which had been a Sunday
probably that we would have the day off together and
we would drive around neighborhood to neighborhood and we started
to pinpoint a couple of neighborhoods that we liked. Eventually

(10:54):
we went to a real or actually I think we
went to the bank first. And the bank they were
only willing to loan us a very small I mean
amount of money for what we were trying to do.
So when we went to the realtor, we said, these
are the areas we're interested in living, and this is

(11:16):
our price range. And of course that meant that we
ended up with a very short list of options for
a house. We looked around at some of these places
and a lot of them would have required a lot
of money to put into the place, and it would
have required us to live in our apartment and be

(11:38):
renovating the house, which we could not afford to do.
We were, you know, struggling couple still really, I mean,
and we had enough money. When you move, you know,
you need to first last security and all that kind
of stuff. And you know, so we had spent a
big chuck and our car broke down on the way

(11:59):
on our trip, so.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
You know, oh, gosh, of course it did, right.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Yeah, I mean it was not the greatest entrance into
our new life. But I'm driving the U haul and
she's driving in front of me, and I see smoke
blast out of the back, and she keeps going.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
She got cats whining in a cage and.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
A you know, and meanwhile, next thing you know, we
are pulled off to the saddle. We were close to
our destination but not quite and so as soon as
you know, we had enough money to hold us over
for about a month or two. But when we found
out that the car needed all that money to get fixed,
now we were really in trouble. So luckily she got

(12:38):
hired at a salon quickly, and I ended up getting
hired at the bronze Foundry, which, you know, Florida's already hot,
but probably working in a place where there's molten bronze.
Being poor artistically is fascinating, but it is hard and
allowed to work, to be in an atmosphere. Anyways, I

(12:59):
we jumped on it, and we did our best that
we could to get on our feet. But you know, again,
we had this dream of buying a home, and so
the real order would take us around on our little.
I don't know whenever we were able to get together,
we were so busy. I don't know how we manage it.
But she took us around and we saw a bunch

(13:21):
of places and I was just like, oh my god,
our options are running low.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
And then she took us to this one to look
at the place. The area was a very desirable area
for us. It was on our top of our list
because it was an older part of town, a lot
of shade trees, a lot of things were within walking distance,
which was a big appeal. You ride your bicycle everywhere,

(13:46):
you know, kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (13:47):
And it was centrally located to stuff, so that was
a big appeal. But you know that she takes us
to see this place and it is a concrete blow home,
a two bedroom, one bath. It's like nine hundred square feet,
you know, and so you know it's not our It

(14:09):
wasn't a dream house. But literally the bank offered us
sixty thousand dollars and we mustered up through three grand
or something maybe four grand to put into that. So
I think for sixty four thousand dollars we bought this
little block of a house that was It was built
in nineteen forty eight. So but it was solid, and

(14:30):
it was in a good area. You know, there was
a but my dad, I remember he came down and
he saw the house and he asked, how much did
you pay for that? And I could tell he was
looking at me, thinking, my son's an idiot, because he
was used to prices of places up north in our
little hometown area in western New York, where.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
You could buy an old, you know.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Victorian house for that price or something, you know, with.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
Four bedrooms and two bads or something.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
But so I could tell, you know, he was probably thinking, oh,
my son, he was never been braid or something. I
don't know what he was thinking, but I think I
could tell he was not impressed with what I did.
But again, we didn't have too many choices. But when
we went in to look at the house, I'm you know,
I'm surprised I didn't pick up on it.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
But I was so busy just looking at the.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Structure of the house and what I needed to do
to get it to where we could move in and
and make it livable and so forth. So the thing
for that was place was solid. Everything seemed like it
was in good place. It needed some work, needed a
floor treatment and some paint and and maybe some carpet

(15:45):
in a couple of rooms. But other than that, it
was seemed like it was a very pretty sound structure,
except for there was one major problem with this house,
and that was that there was no central air conditioning.
And here we are living in floor so and that's
a big expense, you know.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
But okay, that's actually wild that any house in Florida
wouldn't have central AC.

Speaker 4 (16:08):
Exactly right, And you know there's a reason for that.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
I think I could come up with and I'll talk, well,
it'll you know, it'll make itself kind of self evident here.
But you know, it was a surprise. But that's why
it was in our price range, right. So, I mean
all the other places they had nineteen seventies lime green
and bright red carpet, shag carpet and you know, just

(16:35):
old panels, and you know, everything would have been gutted.
And I didn't have the problem work in six days
a week, and I worked six days a week for
years actually, so it wasn't anything I wasn't used to.
But I had no spare time, very little spare time.
Of course, we didn't have the money to put in

(16:56):
or be able to live in two different places. And
one thing that was good is I had a buddy
who was from South Florida. He had moved up here
ahead of time, and they actually showed us around when
he came up to visit on that weekend before we
decided to move. He was a tile guy and I
used to assist him on help him out on some

(17:17):
projects for extra money and because he needed help. And
when he in South Florida, because he was he had
his own business, and so I knew how to assist him.
So I hired him to do the tile work in
the house and we tiled this place. So you know,
we've heard you've heard these stories when you buy a

(17:39):
place and you start automatically changing things around, what can happen.
But when we went in there with the realtor looking around,
I was only busy looking at the structural thing while
my wife was walking around. And after we left there,
I went, my god, that's the perfect house. And she's like,
I don't know, I just get a weird feeling about it.

(18:00):
And I was like, what do you mean, I don't know,
It's just I just get a weird feeling about it,
you know, so I like, whatever, man, we don't have
any more options. This is it. I said, we can
wait another year if that's what you want to do.
You know, we can wait another year. And she's like no,
I said, well we with a little paint and some

(18:21):
tile work.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
I said, it's going to be great.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
You know. It's like it's we can walk to all
those places. You can walk to the post office, walk
to the grocery store. There's diners, there's places to go.
And so she's like, all right, then let's steal it.
So we made the decision to purchase this house. Well,
you know, it's a big effort to go through all this.

(18:47):
So this is months in the making where we drove
around for months, you know, looking at places and kind
of having a dream. It seemed far off because really
we had only been in uh we were here six
months before we purchased the house, and so we both
had new, pretty new jobs for the most part, and

(19:11):
we're you know, we gosh, get myself thought, you know,
we just made that decision.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
Okay, we're gonna go for it.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
And when we went to go to the closing of
the purchase of the house, we went to some office place,
big room with a big table, and the two representative
realtors were there for the seller and for us. So
we were filling out all the paperwork and signing all

(19:42):
the stuff and initially things, you know, all that crap
and right, and there was an there was an elder
lady that was selling the house to us. And we
were in our early thirties at this point, fairly new.
We had been together for four or five years at

(20:03):
this point, but we had only been married for a
year I think maybe a year and a half or something.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
But the elderly lady, just as I'm ready to sign,
like like the last page or something, she goes, oh,
by the way, if you see a ghost, it's my
mother in law and her name is Ivy. I skid
you not, And the I look around and the room

(20:33):
became totally silent, where you could hear a pin drop.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
Both of the realtor's jaws were drop literally dropped open.
And I looked at my wife and she looked at me,
and I looked at the lady and I didn't say
a single word and I signed the paper.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
Any normal person would have jumped up and go, whoa
hold on, what.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
What did you just say? Say that again. But I
don't know. After getting the bank loan, getting you know,
all this stuff, I just signed the paper because I
was tired of it.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Oh, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (21:12):
And when we drove away, my wife punched me in
the arm and goes we bought a haunted house. And
I didn't think you believed that stuff, you know, But
I said that woman was crazy or something. I don't know,
she's a senile. Maybe, don't worry. Don't worry about it.
Everything's fine. And that's how we started this whole ordeal

(21:35):
with our purchases of our first home. Ever.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, that's interesting because I in my mind I was
waiting for maybe you didn't see the back of the
house and it was covered in physical Ivy. You know,
I was thinking the house of Ivy. I was like,
where's the description of the Ivy? But it's not a
thing or a plant. It is a person that is.
Oh boy, I'm excited to hear things now.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
You know why the title?

Speaker 2 (22:03):
I really get the title. Yes, it is Ivy's house
and she has not left. She loves the place.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
Yeah, apparently.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
And so in the paperwork to the house, there was
a mention in there that she died in there. So
now we got a dead old lady. The woman that
died in the house in bed, I believe, and so
in her sleep, I guess. So that was disturbing. But

(22:34):
you know, we're like, okay, there it is a lady
died in here and her name's Ivy. Well we got
to move on, and we we're busy, we have jobs,
just hurt my my wife and I, you know, and
we had a couple of pet cats, and you know,

(22:58):
we just had a move on. So my friend, the
tile guy, and I began while we still were in
the in the apartment, we began starting to do some
of the big messy stuff first and foremost, get that
out of the way. So he and I were going
in there on the weekend and in the evenings laying

(23:21):
tile down, which really made place to cost him. But
you know, a little there were quirky little things that started.
But you know, for me, I have a d D.
I misplaced stuff a lot. But there was a little
little things like miss misplaced items. And then you know,
when we first moved in and my wife would ask me,

(23:41):
what would you do with this or with that?

Speaker 4 (23:43):
And I'd be like, I don't remember doing anything with it.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
I don't know, you know, be like walking around looking
for stuff and later you might find it in a
drawer or something.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
You know, of course, the keys and that type of thing.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
But nothing that would sound any a lot arms really
because like I say, I I have add I'm I
can misplace things very easily and I do it quite often.
So anyways, that was interesting. But you know, we were
getting this tile work done. Nothing you know, seemed too

(24:18):
weird or anything. I didn't I was not catching I
wasn't catching anything where. We were really busy and my
friend and I both liked rock music and had radio
going and stuff, you know, so while we were working,
so if there was a noise or a bump, we
wouldn't have heard anything anyways. But when we finally moved

(24:39):
into the place, we a couple some odd things started
to happen. You know, we kind of got everything settled in.
We were painting, uh you know, painting the place and that.
But we could live in the house and still paint
on the you know, when we could and stuff and
take one room at a time kind of a thing.

(24:59):
One evening we were in bed sleeping middle of the night,
and when we wake up to a huge, loud kaboom,
jump out of bed, like, oh my god, what in
the world was that? You know, I jump up and
I'm going around looking to figure it out what's happening.
And the house is small, it's nine hundred square feet

(25:20):
or something, maybe a little bit more than that. And
uh right directly in front of our there's our bedroom.
There was a little tenC hallway and then the only
bathroom to the house directly across so the I went
over in h I saw that the shampoo bottle, which
was up on a like a shelf ledge, fell down

(25:44):
in the middle of the night, down into the tub,
and that's what made this kaboom sound. I was like,
what in the heck, you know, And I, you know,
reached up there to see if it was wet or something,
you know, and uh, no, it was dry. And then
I I actually, you know, I was trying to figure
that out. I got a level out to see maybe

(26:07):
this thing slanted or something, you know, No, it was level,
if you know. I was trying to figure out what happened.
I thought could one of the cats maybe, And I
was looking at the situation like now they're old and lazy,
that they're not gonna that would be a real leap
of faith for a cat to try to jump up

(26:27):
from there up to the It's just it didn't seem
to make any sense. But you know, you just gotta go, well, okay,
that was odd, but I'm not gonna chuck it, chock
it up as paranormal.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
At this point, I matter of fact, I was trying
everything I could.

Speaker 3 (26:43):
To you know, not come to that, because uh, you know,
I don't want to live in it haunted half, and
I didn't want my wife to be worried about things.

Speaker 4 (26:53):
So you know, I just kind of like moving on.
And then another night, in the middle of kaboom.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
Again, and sure enough, big full shampoo bottle, heavy shampoo
body drops down all the way up from up above
the shower down hits the bottom of the tub again
and just you know, scares the living crap out of
you in the middle of the night. And so this

(27:22):
really was getting me, you know, the back of my mind,
I was like, what is happening here? But I was
determined to try to figure out, Like, I don't know,
maybe one of the cats is getting up there, but
I can't for the life of me, just didn't seem likely,
and I couldn't think of any logical reason for anything

(27:43):
like that to.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
Be going on, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:46):
So that was you know, just shortly after we moved in,
these kind of things started to happen, the little things
that make you scratch your head and go hmm, I
don't know what was that. Well, then one night my
wife and I were in bed, sleeping, middle of the night,
and directly above us in the attic, something began crashing

(28:13):
and banging and making all kinds of thumping sounds, reverberating
thumping sounds right over our heads in while we were
in the bedroom, and you know, scared again. We were like,
oh my god, and we're like, I'm like, what in
the heck. I'm like that there's no squirrel man. That's

(28:35):
got to be a raccoon up in the attic, you know,
like what how in the world, you know, I'm like,
it has to be a raccoon. I can't think of
anything else big enough to be making that kind of
noise up in the attic, you know.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
But our attic was a.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Tiny It's a tiny little house with a tiny little attic,
and you can't even stand up in this attic.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
It's a crawl space attic, you know.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
So, and there's no air conditioning, so there's no air conditioning,
ducks or anything up there.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
It's just a you know.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
I peeked in there, I think, just prior to purchase
it when we maybe after we purchased the house, or
maybe before that, I don't know. But anyway, something's in
the attic, you know. Oh my god, And it's in
the middle of the night, and what are we gonna do?
But we heard all this banging and crashing and noise,

(29:29):
and then it would eventually stop. Well, of course we
have to get up and go to work in the morning,
and uh, I'm not gonna sleep easily after that. It
all happened adrenaline rush, you know. But I knew I
was going to have to do something, and I got
up early in that morning, and I got the ladder

(29:50):
out and I climbed up on the roof of the house.
I was really hesitanting to stick my head up in
the hole in the hallway, the little hatch and put
my head up there in case there was some crazy
raccoon or some other large animal to jump on my head.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
So I would did not was not really looking forward
to that.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
So I looked up on I got up on the roof,
and I was, you know, I had to try to
go to work, but I was trying to look around
and I could not see any place where a large
animal could have gotten into the house.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
You know, I saw a few little cracks.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
I'm I go, I have to fill that, you know,
I could a rat have gotten into It's like no
rat could make that kind of not that noise, you know.
But I was confused, and then I started thinking, well,
maybe it was up on the roof and but you
could feel the vibration coming through, you know. I was like,
I don't believe that would be the case. It would
have been more muffled. So again I could not figure

(30:45):
out what was going on. But we we headed off
to work. I think that we, uh, well, whatever happened,
we decided to call the trapper because I mean, this
was disturbing, and I did eventually when I got home
from work, I put a little ladder in the hallway

(31:07):
and stuck my head up there reluctantly and looked around
and I did not see anything, but I mean something
had to be in there. So we called a trapper
and the arranged to come with a big box trap
and put some bait in there, and he got he
looked around and he said, I don't see any signs

(31:29):
of anything. But so there looked like there might be
some really old mouse poopers and some birds poop or
something up there, but I don't see anything, any signs
of any big animals of any kind or anything, certainly
anything large. It was kind of like, well, okay, jeez,

(31:50):
but we heard this cabou and bang loud. You know,
guy I could tell you, was like, okay, he left
the trap there and put bait in it, and and
then of course as soon as he leaves the nothing happened.
We left it up there for I guess a week
or you know, close to it, and then he uh.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
We he ended up coming back to get the trap.

Speaker 3 (32:15):
And so we were kind of like, oh, well, okay, thanks,
kind of felt silly a little bit, but and thought,
well maybe that whatever that was, it's done. And of course,
right after the guy takes the trap, almost I don't
know if it was the same night or within a
day or two, it happens again. Boom boom, boom, crash bangs, thump, thump, smash,

(32:41):
you know, right over our heads again and yeah, now
again we are absolutely freaked out. We called the trapper
company again. Same guy shows up and he's like, you
guys again. We're like, yeah, man, it's back. Whatever it is,
it's back. It's making all kinds of racket and you know,

(33:02):
the guys, I could I know that he's thinking we're
nuts or something, you know, because he's a good old boy.
You know, he used to thinks he would know if
he sees raccoons scat or something. Right, he's saying, no,
sees no signs of anything up there, like he said.
But he put the trap up there again for us
and put some bait in there, and nothing happened out

(33:26):
and he ends up coming back and getting his trap
within the week or so. And the week after that.
You know, it was kind of like, okay, what was that.
We had no idea. It was weird. So we at
this point in time, we started to think something isn't right,

(33:48):
you know, and we began whispering conversations, which is kind
of a strange thing to have to do in your
own home. But you know what, when and uh, it's
one thing to go into a place for a haunt
ghost hunting thrill with a group of people to visit

(34:08):
for one night somewhere. You know, it's different when you
have to live with something that you can't see, maybe
like living with the invisible man in your house.

Speaker 4 (34:17):
Can you imagine, Uh.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
It's psychologically this really was tom This tormented.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Us in a lot of ways.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
Not this the whole event of living there was psychologically
really difficult on us, you know. You know, so we yeah,
we had we decided to have a rule where you
couldn't say your name in the house. We would have
conversations outside of the house about her, but we we

(34:50):
still weren't convinced that it We were not committing to
this as a paranormal thing, even though we kind of
knew it most likely he was something going on, but
we were not one hundred percent committed to that. But
we also know that something weird was who went on,
and so we would have conversations outside of the home

(35:15):
and tried to not talk about too much in the house.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Now, very is that because was this protocol implemented because
of the fact that anytime you said out loud, oh,
maybe it's Ivy upstairs in the attic hahaha, or what
with the shampoo bottles. Maybe it's ivy because then you
felt like it ramped up, or you just buy some

(35:40):
intuition k new that you shouldn't be calling attention to that.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
Well, you know, I'm thinking about what I just said.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
I think that this rule got implemented after the next
events that okay, hurt.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Actually now I'm thinking about it.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
But we started to become very uneasy about things, right,
and I think that we were openly we did not
We're still kind of hesitant to say that name out
loud against like me with mister Wolf. Maybe you know,

(36:16):
I was just kind of like, okay, let's not you know,
maybe call it superstition. But we started to get this
idea that something might be happening and that I could
not explain these things that were going on. You know,
so I'm having to unfortunately come to terms with that

(36:37):
crazy old lady. Soda Zials may have been just being
honest and telling us something that I really didn't want
to hear or acknowledge.

Speaker 4 (36:47):
But so.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Here's the next thing that happened, and this is when
the real alarm bells kind of came on. We both
went to work one day. When we got home from work.
Our bathroom sink was pulled off of the wall and
it was just hanging there. By miracle, our house didn't

(37:14):
get flooded or anything.

Speaker 4 (37:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
I mean, this was beyond My brain was exploding at
this situation because I could not I.

Speaker 4 (37:29):
Was looking at what had happened.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
I thought, somebody broke into our home, and you know,
is what my first thought. I ran around looking in
the house, and all the doors and windows were closed
and locked. There was nothing else out of place or
out of order. Now, the house was built in the
late nineteen forties, and everything was still original in that

(37:54):
house far as I know, and so you've got. But
they made stuff really heavy duty back then. I mean,
this house has we stood hurricanes and all kinds of stuff,
you know, through the years here in Florida. But this
old sink, which it was attached to the wall, and

(38:17):
it had two metal legs that supported it, you know,
for all, as far as I knew, it seemed quite
sturdy and perfectly fun there was. It was a small,
tiny little bathroom, tiny little house, little bedrooms, everything small
in this little house, you know, and everything was retro,

(38:40):
which we liked retro as a matter of fact, we
ended up renovating the house to be retro early late forties,
early fifties. We went to the antique store and purchased,
you know, we bought furniture to look like that style,
and we you know, we were taking pride and trying
to fit the house up and get a vibe going

(39:02):
that looked neat, you know.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
But yeah, the sink, what and the hell happened here?
You know?

Speaker 3 (39:09):
And uh, of course again, could the cats have done this?
Could could one of the cats have jumped up here
and that happened? You know. I'm like, the force that
it would take to pull this thing off of the wall.
I just my mind was a bit blown on this.
I could not and it scared me, all said, because

(39:32):
oh my god, whatever this is, it's if this is
some supernatural or paranormal thing, it's it's got really powerful abilities,
you know, And that really was terrifying. So I did
not want to come to that conclusion. But on the

(39:54):
other hand, I thought, we need we can't talk about
this in the house because if we do anything to
piss her off anymore, I mean, I don't know what
she might do to us. You know, you start feeling
like you could be in danger or something. You know,
this was really weird.

Speaker 4 (40:14):
And I was.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
I could not at this point. I kept trying to like, Oh,
everything's fine, darling, and everything's.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
Fine, don't worry about it.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Well, you know, at this point it's like, okay, all right,
we got to figure this something is going on. And
so that's when we really said, Okay, we're gonna we'll
talk about it in the car, out in the backyard, whatever, you.

Speaker 4 (40:36):
Know, but we're not going to talk about this in
the house.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
So we kind of came to this this idea that
we were going to just have a rule for ourselves,
and that was the rule. Well, my wife told her
sister that I think we bought a haunted house and
told her about some of this stuff. Of Course, living

(41:01):
in Florida, everybody wants to come and take vacation, and
you know, we had a tiny little house, not hardly
big enough for us, but we had a little guest bedroom,
and of course we get family that want to come
and visit. And so my wife's sister and her former

(41:21):
husband came and he's a young, cocky guy and he
walks in as soon as he walks in the house,
so where's what's your name your ghost?

Speaker 4 (41:31):
Jokingly? And you know, not cool man.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
You know, it's all fun and games until you got
to live in that environment, you know, and oh ho ho,
it's like, well, you know, the interesting thing is we're like, please,
let's not you know, And I know that he's thought
it was a big goof stupid joke. Well, I don't

(41:57):
know if it was, like I think it might have
been the first night or a second night that they
were there. He one morning he was acting kind of
weird and then he's like, I saw an old lady
in your kitchen, and I thought he was joking with us,
you know, like, oh great, you know it's not funny, man, Seriously,

(42:18):
I don't want we don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
He was like, no, really, I really did.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
There was an old lady staring at me from the
kitchen because and uh, I realized that this big old
guy was actually scared. So that was the first and
they never did come back to ever visit again, which
is fine, but so that happened, you know again, you know,

(42:47):
I do I believe this guy, but he did act
like he was frightened by that situation. One of the
things that happened one day. I my wife worked on
Saturdays at the salon, and I would oftentimes almost always
had freelance work going on, and I would stay at

(43:10):
home and work on illustration or I was that day.
I had a little small studio space in out in
the Florida room set up without a drawing table, and
I was sitting out there working on an illustration for
a client, and I began to hear one of our cats, Heidi.

(43:32):
She was a snow shoe cat, and they kind of
like a Siamese more or less. She looked like she
had a mask over her eyes, and you know, she
had these sort of a Siamese color, bright blue eyes.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
She was a very smart cat, and she was getting
up there.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
I don't know, she was starting to get up there
in age, I guess, but I don't know how old
she was really, but she was a mature cat. And
I heard her verbally chatting away while I was sitting
in that other room, and I thought, that's weird.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
What is she doing?

Speaker 3 (44:12):
I thought, she usually only does that if we're paying
attention to her, you know. So I decided to get
up and go check it out. And I got up
and I crossed over the house to the other side,
which wasn't a big long distance cut through the living room,
and I looked in from the little small hallway into

(44:34):
the little guest bedroom. Was Heidi sitting on the bed,
looking up into the middle of the room, looking like
she's looking up at something and she's just talking away. Oh.
I was like, that's weird. And I went walking into

(44:55):
the room and I walked right into an ice cold
spot right where my cat was looking. And all the hair,
all the it's like static because like all the hairs
instantly went up on my body, covered in goosebumps, and
all that moment of realization, like oh my god, I

(45:18):
just walked into her. And I backed up out of
there and I went, I'll leave you two alone now.
I turned around and I went back to my drawing table.
I was freaking out. I was like, oh my god, Okay,
this is all real.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
She's here.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
She likes my cat at least that's good. I don't
think she likes me very much, but she likes my cat.
And I, oh, this is this is getting stranger. And
I'm like, should I tell my wife or not? You know,
But that happened, and that was kind of interesting.

Speaker 5 (45:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
I mean once the animals start to because we're we
can and we are quite good at dismissing things or saying, oh,
it's just the wind, or it's just a raccoon in
the attic or a huge rat of some sort. But
once the animals start acting like that and there is

(46:17):
a cold spot, oh boy, now you're probably going, oh, kidoky,
that's why you're like, I'll be in here, see you later.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Yeah. It's a it's a very strange feeling when you
walk into that kind of an energy. It for me,
it's very powerful. I don't know other people maybe they
don't feel it the way, but for me, I know
the feeling. I've felt it throughout my life. You know,
I've been there with that more than many times. You know,

(46:47):
it's here's all your senses just gone high alert. It
is a very weird feeling. It's not just cold air,
you know, like a It's more than that. And it's
a kind of it's a bone chill type of a feeling.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
But you look.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
I look it down at my arms and they're covered
in goosebumps and and all the hair is standing. I
feel the hair actually stand up on my on top
of my head even and it's not in the back
of your neck, of course, but it's it is a
very strange, intense feeling.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
So I knew.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
I bet literally backed up. I went and I was like,
but I said something. I went, Okay, I'm just going
to leave you two alone now. And I didn't know
what to do, you know, but it was it was weird,
for sure, and that happened. So, you know, Okay, there's

(47:42):
an old lady here. But you know again, and I
mentioned that, and I'll mention it because the biggest thing
is to realize you're living in a small space with
a dead old lady that seems to be a conscious entity.
You have no privacy. There is you know, you know,

(48:05):
like what is she's sitting over there in the corner
eating invisible popcorn watching us right now.

Speaker 4 (48:10):
Hey, you want to get romantic? I don't think.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
So it's kind of feels, you know, you're uncomfortable in
your own house, you know, you just it is a
it is a strange thing.

Speaker 4 (48:20):
And the other part of the real problem is.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
It's so isolating because you know, I went to work,
you know, like, oh my god, something, but I can't.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Just go Hey, guess what.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
I just bought a haunted house and all there's stuff
banging around, you know, you you know, I just actually,
when we were right in the process of buying that house,
I forgot to fill. I'm going to do a wind
back to when I the psychic lady that said she
saw me a vision of me going into a glass building.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Well, right while we.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Were in the per middle of perch sing our first home,
and I saw an ad in the newspaper and it
was for an art job, but it was very non specific,
and I thought this seemed like an odd thing. But
I thought my wife said, why don't you just go ahead?
And because I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie. I was

(49:18):
really struggling with my other situation. It was really tough,
and you know, I was looking for something better, and
of course none of those jobs offered me benefits, which
is our goal to uh for.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
Moving up there. I answered this ad in the paper.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Sent a resume or whatever, and I ended up getting
a call back. And when I went there for the interview,
it was a big, tall glass building. I got in,
I went all the way to the top floor and
I went to walk to the door and there were
two statues on both sides of the door of these figures,

(50:01):
which I'm like, she said, I'm going to be greeted
by two men when I walk in there. I ended
up getting hired by the Ripley's Believe it or Not
company and they just started an art department in town,
and so I.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
Came in at the very beginning level.

Speaker 3 (50:21):
With the company. It ended up being a seventeen year
career for me. So the psychic was right, just sorry,
I you know, went made a full circle. But we
had already moved into our new house when that happened, so,
you know, so I got a new job. I can't
tell people what's going on in our private life with

(50:44):
this crazy house, you know. And of course people that
you do try to tell, like some family or whatever,
they're sitting there thinking you're.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
Crazy or whatever. But that's the problem with you.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
Experience paranormal things and other people don't, you know, which
it's a frustrating place to be at times. But we
knew what was going on. We had no doubt about
it at this point in time. We definitely knew that
something was up, and you know it. Unfortunately, so you know,

(51:21):
there was the next thing is very disturbing. So sorry
if it disturbs anybody. Uh just I was warning, I'm
warning you that this is just it's it's weird. And
uh so, remember I said that the place they had
no central air.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
Well, it took a while.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
For us to get the money up to be able
to put the central air in because it's not a
cheap thing to do, even with a small place, you know,
And of course we were tapped out financially, but with the
car repairs and you know, and then the down payment
for the house and everything, and the money we spent

(52:04):
for tiles and all that stuff. So you know, it
took us another probably six months or.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
So before we could address that.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
But in Florida without central air, I mean, you know,
it's it's rough. So we knew we had to do this.
So we ended up making that decision and we had
the air conditioning guys came and I was at work
that day. My wife she had she worked on Saturdays

(52:35):
and she was home on Mondays. So the air conditioning
guys came and they were cutting holes for the events
in the ceilings. While they were up in this attic,
the one guy yells down at my wife and says, hey,
I found something up here, and she says what and
he hands down to her a he hands down a

(53:00):
VHS tape. He's like, I found this way in the
corner in the attic. What what in the world is that?
And why is that in the attic? You know, this
is interesting, very strange. She's like okay, and she's like, well, whatever,
I will wait until they're gone.

Speaker 4 (53:20):
To see what this is.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
And so after the workers left for the day, she
puts the tape in.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
Well, she ends up realizing that it is a man in.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
The middle of our living room, undressed, and he's touching
himself and filming himself really really disturbing. So I didn't
watch it. I just threw the ding thing in the trash.
But so we did know that the house had been

(54:00):
rented out after the old lady had died, had been
rented out through the years she had died. Let's see,
I had probably been she had been dead for at
least twenty years, I think, maybe not that much, maybe
more like twelve or thirteen years actually, But anyways, the

(54:22):
place had been rented out for a number of years
to different people. The neighbor guy before this said, oh,
there was a weird guy that was living here. Glad
he's gone, you know, I'm like, well, where are your
new neighbors? When I got home from work, I looked
at my wife first, the look on her face. What's wrong?

(54:42):
She goes something really disturbing. She tells me about the tape,
and I'm like, where is it? I was like, oh,
get it out of my house, you know. And yeah,
we were at that point we wanted to just go
back with some bleach and scrub the entire home again.
But so on that to be really strange, and then

(55:02):
we thought.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
Is that why the old lady was so angry?

Speaker 3 (55:09):
You know, like maybe she's just angry because weird people
were kept coming into this It's her home, and strange
people keep coming in there. And then she got some
creeper in there doing stuff, you know, and we you know,
I thought, maybe that's why she was making all that
noise in the attic. I don't know, but uh, yeah,

(55:31):
it's kind of sorry, it's it's that was a weird
thing to discover for us, and I'm sure it's weird
for people to hear that.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I mean, what in the Buffalo bill is going on there?
All right? Like that's not that is not something that
you want to see. And I mean, I suppose if
you're making videos like that, I would imagine you would
keep them in a space where not a whole lot
of people are just going to come across and go, oh,
what's on this tape and plot that in. But what

(56:02):
a shame that that got left behind when said lovely
gentleman moved away for you guys to find.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
Yeah, but also you wonder why was it in the
attic way in the far corner, Because I took a
flashlight moved around, I didn't see anything up there, and
but you had to go all the way back, and
so that is weird. And it almost like did this
guy know the place was haunted? Did you know was
see something going on there? Or was she just weird

(56:30):
and twisted or wanted to leave something disturbing.

Speaker 4 (56:34):
For others to find. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
You can't imagine what goes on as he said like that.
But all I know is at that point I wanted
to cleanse the house or do something, but my wife
was afraid for us to do anything. I mean, because
I mentioned maybe we should try to find somebody to
come here and do you know, we were afraid to

(56:58):
stir things up, you know, we were afraid to make
this entity any angry again or anything, because things had
seemed like they had calmed down well after that tape
was gone. It does seem like things we had we
started to have calm moments in between where you know,

(57:23):
in the beginning things were really ramped up. It seemed
like there were times when things were felt somewhat normal
for the most part, but that happened.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
I know, one other evening, I remember I.

Speaker 3 (57:37):
Was out working on illustration and my wife was in
the bedroom and she was watching television, and so I said,
mentioned we already had a couple of cats. They were older,
I don't know, gosh, dang it, a little cute white
kitten came around somehow ended up becoming our the third animal.

(58:02):
And she was she was just a young, you know,
juvenile kitten or less. And she was laying in between
my wife's legs on the bed. And the way this
setup was is our bed was up against the wall
right next to the entrance door to our bedroom, so

(58:23):
if you were to so the TV was facing the
opposite side of the doorway at that time.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
And I just heard my wife say something weird's going on.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
I'm like, why she got she goes, I don't know,
and I jumped up and I headed towards the bedroom
and I went into the hallway, and right at the
doorway of our bedroom, I looked and I saw the
kitten standing up, back arched, all the hair standing up, frozen,

(58:57):
staring in at the doorway.

Speaker 4 (59:01):
And as soon as I got.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
Up there to it, I walked into the ice cold
spot again, and so like, oh, the old lady's standing
here watching looking into the room. Maybe she's watching TV
with my wife. Maybe she's looking at the cats or
the new kitten that we brought home. I don't know,
but I went, oh, this time, I did say her name.

(59:24):
It's just divy. And I turned. My wife's like that's
not funny. I went, I am, it's not supposed to
be funny. I just went back and sat back at
my drawing table, just kind of like, Okay, this is
this is our life now. And you know, we lived
in this house for over five years or around five years,

(59:46):
so you know, you're hearing a condensed version of a
lot of stuff. But there are, like I say, there
were times when they were quiet moments or little quirky
things that would happen again, but you don't know, you
hear any noise just to wonder, or or something gets
moved out of place and then you wonder. But things

(01:00:07):
were not terrifying at least at that point, and which
was good.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
You know, we were starting to get sort of used
to this weird idea of having a roommate, if you will.
But you know, it's some weird how you can get
sort of used to things. But it still was very
unnerving to say the least. I mean, and you know,

(01:00:33):
but what are you going to do? We were stuck.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
I mean, you know, it wasn't like, oh crap, we
could just turn around and leave this situation. Now we're
committed to the bank to pay off alone, and you know,
we didn't have a big amounts of money in the
bank to make big changes.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Or just run out of there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
You know, we're pretty much committed to this at this point.
And that's the hard part.

Speaker 4 (01:00:59):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
I said, you're going to visit a place that might
be haunted for a thrill is one thing, But when
you're stuck and have to live in that, it really
is it's a whole other thing, you know, and yeah,
we So the next thing that happened, which was, I

(01:01:20):
think it's gonna be kind of the crescendo of things,
I guess, if you will. One evening, we were in
bed sleeping. My wife woke up hearing our cat, Heidi, again,
chattering away. And she when she wakes up, she as
she hears that. From hearing that, she looks and in

(01:01:44):
our bedroom doorway she sees a silhouette of a figure
standing there. And the bathroom was directly across from our
doorway of our bedroom, and that little tiny bathroom had
a win in there, and there's a street light or
something in the street on the other.

Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
And there's some ambient light coming in through there, so
she could see the silhouette against that light. And I
hear her say, who are you? What do you want?

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Or something like that. And I wake up and I,
you know, I'm like, what the hell's going on? And
I look over and I see the figure standing there,
And before I could really do anything, it came floating

(01:02:40):
into the bedroom, cut across the room, and the room
was lit by street lights outside. You could see all
the furniture in the room. It was, you know, so
it wasn't pitch black or anything. There was enough light
to see what was going on. This thing cut across

(01:03:04):
in front of the bed, heading my direction, and it
was a human like form, milky smoky, milky white kind
of or gray or white kind of heading towards me.
And it came over to my side of the bed

(01:03:25):
and it stopped and it stood there looking down at me.
And I don't know that I've it's one of the
most frightening moments I've ever had in my life.

Speaker 4 (01:03:37):
I think I've had a lot of frightening moments in life,
but it's one of them.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
I'm looking up at it and it's like it's moving,
you know, it's it's like a smoky vapor moving, but
it's in a form of what I would say a
human form, and it had what looked kind of like
a skeletal feature. It had two dark voids for that
I a dark void for the mouth. And it's just

(01:04:05):
hard to make out in that situation what exactly I
was looking at, other than I know that it's an apparition,
and I know who it's probably most likely is, and
it's scaring the hell out of me, and then.

Speaker 4 (01:04:24):
It just evaporates.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
I turned my head or looking over, and my wife
is laying down sleeping, Like, what in the heck? How
could she possibly have rolled over gone back to sleep?
This is insane, But I don't know what. I never
went back to sleep. I was petrified, and I spent

(01:04:53):
the rest of the night wide awake, and you know,
I had to get up and go to work the
next morning.

Speaker 4 (01:05:00):
Oddly, we got up and.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
We didn't say a single word about it. We went
off to work, and when we got home from work,
I was like.

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
What happened?

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
It's like, I don't know. You tell me, like, we've
got to go outside and have this conversation. It would so,
you know, sounds so crazy. Yeah, I can't. Can't have
a conversation in our own home. I was like, okay, well,
I said, you know, I heard you. You woke me up.
And then I saw something in the doorway and then

(01:05:32):
it came floating across the room and it came over
and she goes, yeah, that's what I saw or something
like that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:39):
You know, Well, the firson.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
The funny thing is, later I was saying, you know
what I saw? She goes, well, you didn't. You saw
something different than what I saw. I'm like, what do
you mean we both saw something at the same time.
She goes, I just saw a silhouette of a figure
in the doorway or something, you know, And you're saying
you saw these details, and so I went, well, first

(01:06:01):
of all, from your perspective, it was backlit, and it
did look like a silhouette, but was it came into
the room heading towards me. It came right up near me,
and I'm looking at it, and I said, I didn't see,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:19):
Real precise details.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
I saw, you know, what looked like a strange form
of a human being or a I don't know, a
ghost sleep being with with case skeletal feature because it
had dark voids where the eyes, in the mouth would
have been, maybe the nose, and you know it. All
I know is freaked me out in a very intense

(01:06:46):
way to where I ended up with a bad sleep disorder.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
It went on for a really long time. I still
don't sleep well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
I mean, I've always had issues with insomnia and stuff,
you know, because when you think something might just come in,
pop into your room, or you know, just show up
at any time, you kind of sleep with one eye open,
I guess, but I really was disturbed by this, and
I just couldn't help but think this thing pulled a

(01:07:16):
sink off of my wall and made things crash and
bang around in the attic. You know, it moves things,
It has the ability to move objects. I you know,
how do I know it's not gonna stick a knife
in me? And that sounds a little extreme, I know,
but I mean, you know, just your imagination could be

(01:07:38):
your worst enemy with stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Now, Barry, would you say, and you you gave a
great description, but would you say that it was a
woman shape at all? Or could you not tell something
like that?

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
Well? You know, it really would be really I felt that,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
Of course I preconceived notion that it was an old lady, right,
but the stature of it was seemed like a smaller
figure that would have been like this, like an little
old woman, you know. So I but there I did

(01:08:20):
not see details of hair. And when it was walked walking,
it was floating across the room. It looks almost like
a trail of like smoky looking. It's like it almost
looked like smoke, like if you were to take cigarette
smoke in a room where there was a little light.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
And blow that into the room.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
Only it was in a form, and it was forming
the It was in the form of a human being.
It could see the head, the shoulders going down. I
didn't notice. I did not notice the lower half of
it at all, because I was so busy looking at
the upper half, which was standing there looking down at
me as I was kind of leaning up a little

(01:09:04):
bit in my bed on my elbows or I don't know,
maybe I had my arms out holding me up or something.
But it was very close to me, within a few feet,
you know, And I was just an absolute shock, even
though I knew the place is haunted, but still to

(01:09:24):
actually see it is it's a bit of a mind blower,
you know, well.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
And for your wife. And this isn't the first time,
of course, we've heard something like this, Right, you have
someone that sees something and she even out loud acknowledged it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Who are you?

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
What do you want? And then by the time she
or it whatever we want to call that figure over
to your side of the bed, you look over, she's
already turned over sleeping again.

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
This is that's happened time and again. At least she
remembered the next day, right, It would have been an
extra level of mind efferee. I think for you if
the next day your wife would have been like, what
are you talking about? I didn't see anything?

Speaker 3 (01:10:08):
Oh my god, that would have been really upsetting. But yes, well,
you know, it's funny. She did not want to. She
wanted me to describe what happened before she would, because
I was I've been dealing with this stuff my entire life.
She's only been dealing with it since she moved in
with me. So we've had some quirky things happen in

(01:10:30):
our lives. Little things.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
Oh well, no, some of them were pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Big actually, and I'm going to talk about some of
those earlier experiences later on in another episode. But you know,
it's a heck of a thing to have to say, Oh,
by the way, you know, weird things happen around me,
you know, like what are you talking about?

Speaker 4 (01:10:51):
So, but for her to come out and admit what.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
She saw and there was no it's nice to have
that voundation because, yeah, when it's just you, even though
you're quite sure something happened, you saw something, you have no.

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
You can't validate it, and so you question yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:11:11):
You know, at least I question myself at times when
I've had personal experiences and it's just me going I
heard that audible voice or you know, but there's nobody
there to go. Yeah, I heard too.

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
So so it was at this point now there's no questions.
We already knew, you know, didn't take too long to
realize that, you know, we were living with this dead woman.

Speaker 4 (01:11:45):
You know, but it was what it was, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
Luckily, I think she realized how terrified I was to
see her, because she never showed herself again. And and
thank god, she seemed like she laid low after that
for the most part, where you know, again, maybe we would.
I'm sure that she enjoyed the company of my one cat,

(01:12:14):
but you know, we things seem to have calmed down
after that for a good while. And thank goodness, because
you cannot live like this over and over again. We
you know, we had plenty of things that have problems
with and stressful things in our lives, but that is
a stress that is so hard for anyone else to

(01:12:40):
imagine it unless you were going through it. We did.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
So apparently obviously this entity, apparition, deceased person whatever again,
whatever the label is, realize the trauma. I think that
she caused so as you say, it kind of calmed down.
But it sounds like that probably wasn't very comforting for

(01:13:08):
you guys, because it sounds like the damage had been done.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
Yeah, you size that up pretty well.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
I mean, you know again, just knowing that that old woman,
how you know, it blows my mind to think that
an apparition, something that's not even in our realm, a
tangible thing. It's I don't know what it is. Adam's

(01:13:34):
floating around, I don't we don't know. Nobody knows exactly
what kind of energy this is. A conscious energy has
the ability to physically you know, of course we're talking
p K here, but poltergeist type activity, you know, that
something that could take a manipulate and go hmmm, I

(01:13:56):
don't know if I want these people in this house.
I think I'm going to wake them up in the
middle of the night by taking this shampoo bottle and
knocking it over and making a really loud noise wake
them up, you know, I mean, it's wild.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
You know, I mean, she did seem to like the cats.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
You know, Thank God for that there was something, you know,
because you know, I know that I came in there
gang busters, both of us did. We're gonna, hey, We're
gonna give us some fresh paint. You know that there's
a nice thing about this place with one of the
selling points. We walked in there and everything was like
painted white walls, everything was solid, everything was original.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
We uh in there for the most part, and so
we I thought, well, we all got to do is
put some paint on the walls and then through the
floor and of course the air canon.

Speaker 4 (01:14:50):
There was stuff they need to be done.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
There was an old metal heater in the middle of
the living room that we gas heater that we had
removed out of there. You know, I was like, what
in the world is that? Jesus, It's a very unattractive setup.
But you know, the thing is this. I found out
that this woman, her and her husband bought that house

(01:15:13):
right after it was built, you know, so they lived
there and had raised their family in this little tiny house.
I think that had a small family lived there from
the nineteen forties, and she had became a widow and
ended up living in there her latter years in that
house alone. And then she dies in the late seventies

(01:15:38):
in bed. I couldn't help. I know this is morbid,
but that's where I go. How long did she lay
in that bed before somebody knew that she passed away? Yeah,
it's a visual you don't want to think about.

Speaker 4 (01:15:54):
It's in your bedroom that you know, but I couldn't help.

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
But wonder about out that, you know, And how would
that affect Was she aware that she was dead?

Speaker 4 (01:16:06):
Is she see people coming.

Speaker 3 (01:16:09):
Into that house as intruders into her home that she
had a loving memories attached to, you know, so I
can understand it's got to be very frustrating to be invisible,
you know, and trying to convey and night a message
to somebody and people were just walking right through you.

Speaker 4 (01:16:32):
Of course she realized I was aware of her.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
You know, excuse me, I'll just leave you alone with
my cat, you know, I you know, try to We
tried to be somewhat respectful. Actually it was really all
in fear. I mean we were we were afraid to
do anything to really shake things up too much. But
I do think that she saw in the beginning when

(01:16:56):
we started renovating things.

Speaker 4 (01:16:58):
I think she was probably really.

Speaker 3 (01:16:59):
Upset, you know, and we've been playing loud rock music
and you know, whatever I got my crazy friend Tom
and they're putting tiles.

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
In there with me, and you know it stirring up
all this stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
But in the end, when we've got all the pieces
in the parts to that together, this beautiful new tile
over this old torazo that was in there that you know,
I like retro, but there was stuff that needed to
be replaced out of there. We bought this really cool
looking furniture and just had all this nice little nick

(01:17:36):
Naxingtenna was looking at a I love Lucy episodes and
for inspiration of the apartment for the furnishings.

Speaker 4 (01:17:46):
It's our mid.

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
Century, early mid centuries type of stuff, and you know,
it was kind of taking some pride in fixing the
place up, and we kind of fixed it up into
her era, you know, I would think. So I started
to realize that we were fixing the place, not trashing

(01:18:07):
it or damaging things in some way and erasing stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:18:13):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
So I do feel like she started to come to
terms with us and realizing that just like her and
her husband who had moved into that house long ago,
this was.

Speaker 4 (01:18:29):
Our first house.

Speaker 3 (01:18:31):
We were hard working people, we were a good couple,
and we just wanted to live our life, and you know,
so ultimately we after five years, you know that there
were issues with property. You know. It's funny. I we
talked about my This is just a funny story. While

(01:18:53):
we were living there, there was a little one car
garage in the back of the house, and I was
working full time for Ripley's Believe it or Not company
making museum figures, and I would do side projects as
I mentioned, and I ended up getting involved in a

(01:19:17):
low budget horror movie and I took vacation time, which
I finally got a job that had some benefits, and
I was taking some vacation time, and I was out
in my little garage in the middle of the night.
Because when you're working in a production like that, so
I would be in pre production before going on to

(01:19:39):
a film set. I would spend sometimes weeks or even
months preparing things ahead of time. But I'm not some
big shot guy out in California in a huge effect chip.

Speaker 4 (01:19:51):
I had a.

Speaker 3 (01:19:51):
Little one car garage out in my backyard that was
kind of creepy having to walk out there in the middle.
But I was out there making body parts or whatever
I was doing.

Speaker 4 (01:20:05):
And it's in the back of my backyard.

Speaker 3 (01:20:07):
But I discovered that a neighbor across the street was
spying on me in the middle of the night, which, uh,
And one day he approached me. He's like, I'm high.
I live across the street. Oh high in nice mate.
And then he's like kind of like trying to figure
out a way to ask me. He's I couldn't help,

(01:20:30):
but notice that you are in your garage late at
night doing stuff. I'm like, oh you. I'm like, well,
how long has this guy been sitting there watching me?
You know, what's going on here? You know, kind of
weirded me out. But I'm like he was a younger guy,
probably in my age range, you know. And I'm like, oh,

(01:20:52):
you want to see what I do in my garage?
And I walked him back to my backyard because he's like,
uh yeah, And I said, oh, go ahead, go in
to the little side door. I said, the light switch
is on the right right by the door or something.
And I looked and he I could see that he
had this hesitation to go inside.

Speaker 4 (01:21:14):
My garage, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:16):
And I was standing there and then he kind of
like hesitantly opens the door and he turns on the
light switch and and there are body parts hanging up
in there. And of course I find out that he's
a big horror film fan. But at first, you know, he's.

Speaker 4 (01:21:35):
Like, oh my gosh. Then he's like, oh, this is
cool man, what's going on?

Speaker 3 (01:21:40):
And I'm like, well, I work on b horror movies.

Speaker 4 (01:21:45):
He's like, oh, I'm a huge fan. Of course.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
Then he wanted to borrow stuff from me every Halloween.
But it was just a funny thing, like the neighbors
are spying on me, and you know, here I am
out there toiling away doing what I did.

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
But that's a little side trek thing that I just
thought of.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
But it's kind of funny, you know, Erry, I have
to say with you guys, being who you were, and
you had nothing but good intentions in your lives and
towards the house, and you have, you know, the cats
that she loved and everything. At least from what I
can that's my impression of it. She liked the cats.
I wonder what did mister Goodbye Horses experience in that house,

(01:22:26):
because I cannot imagine that she favored him very much.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
Now, yeah, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
And the other thing, I know nothing about the person
except for when I introduced myself to the neighbor guys.

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
There were two brothers that were.

Speaker 3 (01:22:40):
Living next door. He's like, oh, I'm glad to see
you moving in.

Speaker 4 (01:22:45):
The guy. We didn't like the guy.

Speaker 3 (01:22:47):
And one of the things is we are animal lovers, right,
and this guy had a big German shepherd dog the
chained to the tree out front of the house. I
was upset to hear that. I could see that the
the some of the bark on the tree was worn
off in a circle around it or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:23:05):
And so the neighbor guy said, yeah, well, we didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
Like that guy, and I went, okay, well, I hopefully
you'll think better of me and my wife. I said,
we're excited to be here with you. You know, we'll
be good, good neighbors if you need anything or whatever.
You know, we just had to try to have a
cordial But he sort of said, well, whoever the guy

(01:23:29):
there was some single guy there that was weird and
he seemed like he was abusive to his dog, you
know kind of thing. So you know, we are already
were like, oh, you know, we didn't, but I didn't.
I never actually didn't put any thought into it really
after that until the tape appeared. But I I did
not want to even look at that tape, so I

(01:23:49):
did not, but I heard enough visual unfortunately in my
mind too, it was enough for me. But yeah, I
would imagine that the old lady must have been very unhappy.
But you know, the thing is, the woman who sold
the house was the old woman's daughter in law, right,

(01:24:12):
and apparently I think she may have said something about
renting at one point renting the house to a family member,
but I don't believe that that it was that guy.
But you know, that family member must have told them that, oh,
by the way, the house is haunted and I'm moving
out kind of a thing, right, And then they started

(01:24:34):
renting the place out to, you know, other people that
were non relatives.

Speaker 4 (01:24:39):
Is what I think.

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
I'm putting pieces of a puzzle together here, but that's.

Speaker 4 (01:24:45):
What I'm thinking.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
And you know, I came across a little sketch that
I did the other I was looking through something and
it's kind of weird, but it may be totally unrelated,
but it's such a It was so weird that I
that I might mention it that my wife, somewhere not
too long back, had a dream. It was a nightmare,

(01:25:09):
actually a really scary nightmare about that house. And in
the dream, we were selling the house and trying to
get it all prepped to sell, and she looks over
and there's like a window with some curtains, and she

(01:25:30):
looks down and she sees these old lady's bowed legs
and feet, and suddenly this curtain moves and it's and it's.
She said it was Ivy in her mind, dressed as

(01:25:52):
a you know, in an old lady in her night clothes,
and she went to chase after her attack her. But
she said her head was like rotted meat that was
all wired together and being held together with wire. It
was really horrific, and that the woman was attacking her physically.

(01:26:13):
She was screaming in her sleep. I think I woke
her up and it was just such a weird dream,
and to dream years several years later, after we moved out.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
Of there about that.

Speaker 3 (01:26:25):
In the content of it, I thought, oh, my gosh,
that sounds like something that I would have. But she
had this dream, and she described it to me like
she had little chunks of her hair, almost as if
she was rotted in the house, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:26:40):
Her death state or something.

Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
I don't know, you know, It was really horrific, but
I had to try to do a little sketch of
it to remember it. And I came across that just
yesterday and I just triggered my memory of it. But
I thought i'd mentioned it. I don't know what that
was all about. Maybe it was this rooted psychological trauma.

(01:27:03):
I mean, cause you get post traumatic stress from stuff like.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
This, you know, absolutely absolutely, And I've said it many
times and you said it again in the beginning. If
you can go to a haunted location, have your fun
and your scares and then leave, that's very different than
actually that's your home, and where are you going to
go exactly?

Speaker 4 (01:27:26):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:27:26):
So, yeah, we ended up we decided we needed a
bigger home, maybe one less haunted, you know, and a
lot less haunted maybe. You know, we were hoping to
start a family and it was time to try to
you know. It was again my wife pushes the envelope
with things I would have been like, never even thought about. Well, yeah,

(01:27:51):
what am I saying? Yeah we thought about moving the
whole time we were kind of stuck there. But she's like,
I think our house has increased in value because suddenly
we were living there in that five year period of time,
the neighborhood was switching from elderly people, uh into younger
couples desiring to move into the area. Restaurants, new restaurants

(01:28:15):
were popping up in stores and things, and you know,
it's starting to become a more trendy area. And uh
so the values were starting to go up.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
And and you guys put ac in so thank god.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
Yeah that that's a huge sell, right And the place
looked amazing if you walked in. I mean, it really
did look like a little bit of a our house
doesn't look like that anymore, but at that time, it
looked like a little bit of a showcase kind of thing.
Everything was kind of cool and hitch and uh we
had you know, we were young ins and you know,

(01:28:54):
had the some cool lighting in there and all that stuff.
And so people would come in and they would all go, wow,
this place is cool in here because I didn't look
like a lot outside of the place. But we I
painted the outside of the house too. But you know,
we really did put a lot of care into that
place of get it fixed up. So yeah, sold really

(01:29:14):
quick when we did decide to put it up for sale.
But I boy did I struggle about whether I am
I going to say at the closing.

Speaker 6 (01:29:22):
Oh by the way, if you see, you know, I
really struggled about that, and I looked up all the
legal stuff, so I'm like, man, I don't want to
get sooner, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:29:35):
Yeah, I looked up legal stuff, and at that point,
now there are no there were no legal things regarding ghosts.
You know, there is in the paperwork said that there's
a woman that died in there, but I was not obligated.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
To say anything, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:29:54):
And you know, truthfully, if the place was still really
having amped up stuff, I would have definitely tried to
get somebody to come in there and cleanse that place
or something, you know. But things had really calmed down
after those incidents where by the time we moved out,

(01:30:16):
I mean really there was didn't seem like there was
anything happening.

Speaker 4 (01:30:20):
So I chose to keep my mouth shut.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
You know. It's a weird. But here's the funny thing
is I drove by that place all the time. You
can't just walk away from it and let him forget that,
you know. And actually I ran into the person that
bought it at one point in time, and she looked
at me, and I looked at her, you know, and
I stopped and said something. She could have said something,

(01:30:46):
but she didn't, and I just couldn't. I wanted to
like anything going on here, but I just couldn't. I thought, well,
she doesn't know anything, and nothing's going on with her,
you know, because here's the thing. I do believe that,
you know, my wife picked up on the vibe that
something was off about the house. You know, I've come

(01:31:06):
to realize through the years that she has abilities, and
she is an empathic. She has she's an EmPATH and
and and then of course I obviously have things going
on with I don't know, uh, call me somewhat psychic
or whatever. I don't know where I fit into this all,
but trying to figure that out. But anyways, so maybe

(01:31:30):
this stuff affected us more than somebody else, perhaps, you know,
so I maybe that was me justifying things.

Speaker 4 (01:31:36):
But but at.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
This point in time, that place is worth seven times
what we paid for in the popular area, and uh,
you know, I hopefully everything is good and calm for
the uh whoever's there, and and you know, life goes on.

Speaker 4 (01:31:56):
But I would love, you know, from I.

Speaker 3 (01:31:59):
Hate unfinished projects, you know, I would love to be
able to go in there and go, you got a
time to move on, Go join your husband and move
on from here, you know, and you know, clear the
place and free that soul that's stuck there. But anyways,

(01:32:20):
that is really pretty much the full story of that,
the House of Ivy.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
I mean, that's a good point. Someone like me, who's
about as sensitive or empathic as a rock, might be
able to move into a house like that and never
ever have anything happen. Right, So that is a very
good point that let me right out of the gate.
You're like, the wife was feeling a little something weird,
but you were just real focused. You might have been
blocking that side of your feels out. But yeah, that's

(01:32:52):
a good point. Just it might be on a case
by case basis. So if mister Goodbye Horses was like me,
maybe he just moved out when he felt like and
it had nothing to do with seeing a full body
apparition and having things ripped off of the wall. So well,
and all right, so our next chat will be all

(01:33:12):
about your haunted workplaces. So again we're gonna continue with
this haunting theme.

Speaker 3 (01:33:19):
Yeah, well then almost you know, I know when this
is gonna be on the air and people will hear
it down in the future. But it's starting to gear
up towards October for here, and that's my favorite time
of year. So I'm gonna mention for any horror fan
out there. We're celebrating the fortieth anniversary of Georgia Merrow's

(01:33:40):
Day of the Dead, the classic cult zombie film, this year,
so I had a chance to get to do some
zombie work on it, and we're gonna be doing showing
that at a theater and I'm gonna be talking to
the audience about some of the behind the scenes stuff.
So it's gonna be fun. I sent you a little
clip to a little something today about that, just just

(01:34:03):
celebrating the Halloween season. But some of these things from
my career have made they're now retro and some of
them have come out and DVDs and and other things, and.

Speaker 4 (01:34:17):
Four I don't know whether forty or four K or whatever, all.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
These different formats now, and it's kind of neat to
see stuff that from so long ago, you know, forty years.

Speaker 4 (01:34:29):
I can't believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:34:30):
You know, But I think it's kind of neat though,
that people are still watching and interested in these old
films from going back to the eighties, guy like.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
Me, God bless George Romero, and I would hazard to say, supposedly,
maybe we will be talking a little bit more about
some of yours. Since we're talking about haunted workplaces, I
would imagine that would include film sets and things like that.
I don't want to even spoil it for myself, so
I'm not asking you if that is the case. But
you have had the privilege of working on some very

(01:35:03):
interesting projects, so I'm looking forward to hearing about that.
But Verry, thanks again so much for being willing to
come on.

Speaker 3 (01:35:09):
All right, Well, thank you so much. It was great,
and I will talk to you then.

Speaker 7 (01:35:17):
Well, I'm so so. I was given the name by
my parents. My business, I've such college, I've done these
things as my profession.

Speaker 4 (01:35:23):
I producing little Box.

Speaker 3 (01:35:25):
But it says, forget.

Speaker 8 (01:35:26):
It, that's something for story, that's all gone, that's all
a possible.

Speaker 5 (01:35:33):
I want to see them really you are now when
nobody knows who that is is, because we don't know
ours except for listening to our egos.

Speaker 4 (01:35:46):
And consulting on memoralism.

Speaker 7 (01:35:48):
But that that's a really When that again leads us
back to me this question.

Speaker 3 (01:35:54):
We are you That is going to mean.

Speaker 7 (01:35:59):
We shall see how they by this example by the
colors to get you to come out of the show
and find.

Speaker 9 (01:36:07):
Out the videos.

Speaker 10 (01:37:08):
Puts specs, Span puts its less specs to school spec.

Speaker 4 (01:38:00):
For example, are quite divided on us.

Speaker 7 (01:38:02):
They will say, no, we don't believe literally in reincarnation
that after your funeral grow you will sadly become saddly different.

Speaker 4 (01:38:12):
There being somewhere else.

Speaker 7 (01:38:15):
They will say, reincarnation means this. Then, if you sitting
here now are really convinced that you're the same person
the folding.

Speaker 8 (01:38:23):
At the door half an hour ago will be reincarnated if.

Speaker 5 (01:38:28):
You are liberating your plans now that you're done.

Speaker 7 (01:38:32):
The past hasn't existent, the future doesn't existence.

Speaker 3 (01:38:37):
There is only the present.

Speaker 8 (01:38:38):
That's the only arenia.

Speaker 3 (01:38:40):
That is the zen master.

Speaker 4 (01:38:42):
Don't get a in this way.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
In c.

Speaker 5 (01:38:46):
String does not become the sound.

Speaker 3 (01:38:50):
First there is Samath, and then there is spree.

Speaker 8 (01:39:21):
It's it's it's, it's, it's, it's it's g s is'.

Speaker 3 (01:40:44):
That's the same idea.

Speaker 7 (01:40:48):
Where he says, when you settled down in the train
to read your newspapers, you're not the same person.

Speaker 4 (01:40:56):
Uh.

Speaker 9 (01:40:59):
If you've you are.

Speaker 3 (01:41:01):
You are linking your moments up in the check. And
this is what binds, is that we look.

Speaker 7 (01:41:10):
When you know that every moment which you are is
the only moment.

Speaker 3 (01:41:15):
This comes in desair.

Speaker 7 (01:41:16):
The Master will say to somebody, I can I have
a walk.

Speaker 4 (01:41:18):
Across the road and it can be back.

Speaker 7 (01:41:21):
And he says, where are your foot?

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
They've got a book, so where are you? Who are you?

Speaker 4 (01:41:29):
When we are asked who we are, we usually give
a kind of recitation of an instrm screens

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