Welcome to Joe Flanagan's Hampton Roads Podcast. In this episode, join host Joe Flanagan as he dives deep into the ambitious Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel expansion project. Joe is accompanied by Ryan Banas, the Project Director, and Paula Miller, the Communications Director, to uncover the monumental efforts behind one of the most transformational infrastructure projects in Virginia's history.
From the project's sheer scale and intricate engineering feats to remarkable personal stories and historical discoveries unearthed during construction, this episode offers a comprehensive look at how the expansion will alter the landscape and lives of Hampton Roads residents. Whether you're intrigued by large-scale engineering, fascinated by local history, or curious about the future of travel in the region, this episode has something for everyone. Get ready to learn, laugh, and look forward to a future with smoother commutes through a project bigger and bolder than ever before. Tune in now!
Email me: joeflanaganshr@gmail.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
After 31 years at 13 News, now I was probably
best known for my Joe's Job series. At the
core of 42 years in local TV newsrooms, one
important word defines me. Curiosity.
Yes. I've always been curious about the who, what, where, when, and
why who my subjects are, what they're curious
(00:31):
about, where are their roots, and why do they do
what they do. What a great place to start the
Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel expansion project.
I've driven it since I moved here in 1980. Now they
just might be on the verge of something we never thought
VDOT could do again. One word,
(00:54):
expansion.
Well, Joe Flanagan sitting here with Ryan Banas, who
is the project director for the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel
expansion project. Ryan, there's a million questions to
ask you. Before I do that, I want to also say Paula Miller is seated
here with us, too, an old friend of mine. Paula Miller, Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel
(01:17):
Expansion Project Communications director. Nice to have you with us,
Paula. Thanks, Joe. Wow. Like I say, Ryan,
where do we begin? This goes so far back. And
I heard you talk to our Kiwanis Club, and you started, and 25 minutes
later, we all said, wow, you could go another 25 minutes. Tell
us how you got involved and what your responsibility is on this
(01:39):
project. Well, I'll say that my involvement at the HRBT
expansion, just sheer luck. Absolute sheer luck. So with
the retirement of the previous project director, VDOT
was looking for somebody to fill his shoes for several months. I think I was
at the bottom of the barrel. Went up to Richmond on a Wednesday morning and
was sold Wednesday afternoon. You need to be on the project Monday morning, bright
(02:01):
and early, ready to go. So very much a shift in the plans for
myself and my family. We've been in Hampton roads now almost 13 years,
but at that time, we really didn't know what was going to be next for
us. But it has been an amazing journey and a phenomenal
opportunity, both for my career, but also just
professionally and personally rewarding to be a part of something
(02:22):
that is so much big than any one of us or any
agency, really, even bigger than our region, because when this project is
complete, it is going to absolutely transform Hampton Roads and
Virginia. Can't wait. And we go from two
lanes to four. Yeah. So right now, across the corridor, we have
two lanes in each direction. Folks are very, very familiar with that. If you travel
(02:43):
through our corridor at the end of the project, once we're complete, we will
have eight total lanes, four in either direction.
Now, we'll always. A lot of folks talk about the Tolling, and that is a
part of the HRBT Expans Mansion and the larger Hampton Roads Express
Lane network. But one thing we really love to highlight about the project
is the two lanes of free capacity that you have today will
(03:05):
always exist. Those will always be there, always be free of charge for everybody
to use. As a result of the project, the two additional lanes in each
direction we're adding will allow HOV occupants of two or
more people to ride on those for free. So there are two additional lanes for
people to have the opportunity to ride on. In addition, if you're a single
rider, you can join those HOV riders
(03:28):
for a fee or a toll. And I think what's really important as we talk
about that toll, that toll, is simply to
manage congestion on those lanes. As an HOV lane, we're required
to maintain a minimum level of service, which is 45 miles an
hour. So as those lanes get a little bit more congested,
typically due to those additional single riders who are paying that fee, we
(03:49):
incrementally raise that fee to persuade them to
stay in the general purpose lanes. And that's really to provide those HOV folks
that consistent ride of at least 45 miles an hour. And if you can
want to make the investment and spend the money, you can still do that as
a single rider. But really important to know that we will always have those two
free lanes in each direction. Nice. And how much further are those lanes
(04:11):
than just at the Bridge Tunnel? Yes, it's a really great story. We talk
about the Hampton Roads expressing network. So from Patrick Henry Field or the
Newport News Airport all the way down to Bowers hill. So a
45 mile network when this is all said and done. So the
current timeline and bringing that entire Network Online is
2028. Now, if you've been in Hampton Roads for any time, the reversible lanes that
(04:33):
go from the 264 interchange up to 564, those have been in
operation since I believe about 2017. So that's a part of
this network. Additionally, the section that goes from the 264
interchange to Bowers Hill, that includes the High Rise Bridge, which we opened up earlier
this year in 2024, that's already operational as well. So we already have a
couple segments in place. But the remainder from
(04:55):
the 564 interchange all the way up to Patrick Henry Field, that
is under construction right now, that comprises four other
projects, three of which are actively under construction. One of them is nearing
procurement. So it is lots of barrels and cones here in
Jersey walls for the next few years. But come 2028, it is going to
absolutely be a different corridor. The goal to alleviate
(05:18):
traffic backups. And will it work? Yeah, I absolutely.
Joe, we are so excited. So it's, you know, ease congestion, increase
travel time reliability and provide choices to folks going through the corridor.
I will say I've had the privilege of working on several large
projects in my career down here in Hampton Roads. I did the Gilmerton Bridge years
ago as a young engineer when we opened up the additional lanes there,
(05:40):
raised that bridge so we didn't have to have so many bridge openings. Traffic
improved dramatically. Fast forward. Then I got the privilege of working
at the Midtown Tunnel and I can remember those backups on Hampton Boulevard going all
the way to odu Every afternoon we opened up that
second lane. Traffic went away immediately. Here at the
hrbt, I don't even think we fully appreciate how
(06:02):
transformative this is going to be, but at the end of the day, if things
go as we plan, as we've engineered, as we've designed, we are going to be
looking at a truly different experience driving across
the harbor here. And I'm so excited to see that happen.
Me too. Been here since 1980, so 44 years of it can't
wait. Paula Ryan, you wanted to mention too, there's a. You
(06:23):
mentioned the Midtown, but you have experience on other tunnels. Yes. The
Midtown is not my first tunnel. So my tunnel experience goes all the way back
to my time spent up in Manhattan. So prior to coming to the Gilmerton
Bridge, the Manhattan, New York City, very great time in my
career. Not only did I get to work on my first subway system and tunnels,
I also met my fiance who became my wife. Very good. So good time in
(06:44):
my life. But we started there, then came down here, Gilmerton, Midtown.
And then I also had the privilege of working at the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel
for about five years from about 2015 to 2020, as that project was
going through procurement startup and all the preparatory works towards
mining and then throwing the mix along there at our wonderful Arlington
National Cemetery up in Arlington, Virginia, I had an opportunity to work on
(07:07):
a small tunnel there that we're putting underneath the roadway connecting the
cemetery to a new maintenance facility. I will say for our
listeners that have the opportunity to go up there, that is such an amazing
facility. And the expansion work that's going on at Arlington National Cemetery
is unbelievable. Which is actually managed out of Norfolk,
the Norfolk Army Corps of Engineers base right here in downtown. So if you ever
(07:29):
take a boat near downtown you'll see the Army Corps of Engineers headquarters
that Arlington National Cemetery falls under their purview. So that was another
really, really cool project that I've had the pleasure of working on. So neat
to be a part of something that honors our nation's heroes. And
you know, in engineering, we always talk about life expectancy. In Arlington National
Cemetery, I was in a meeting, I said, what's the life expectancy? 50, 100 years.
(07:52):
And they looked at me, said, ryan, it's forever. This does not go away.
So he kind of, you know, we talk HRBT, we're very proud, 100 year design
life. But Arlington National Cemetery, I'll tell you, no expense
spared. Forever is one heck of a design code to try and
meet. Absolutely. Let's talk about the interesting
tidbits of making this new tunnel happen.
(08:13):
50ft deeper than the old tunnels. How in the world do
you engineer that? You know, a lot of our engineering,
and I say this to, you know, folks I talk to every day, people get
so overwhelmed and think about how cumbersome and how meticulous and how in depth
it must be. It's big Legos. That's really what we're looking at here.
And of all the engineering disciplines, geotechnical
(08:35):
engineering or digging in the earth is the least scientific. It's orders of
magnitude and best guesses because as you can imagine, we
don't know what's in every single inch of the ground. So we use large factors
of safety. A lot of experience goes into making those
determinations. But here for us, one of the things that we've really benefited at the
HRBT is with all of the previous construction we've had throughout our
(08:56):
corridor, anytime we start construction, we do a lot of geotechnical sampling. And
that's simply putting a drill bit in the ground, pulling up soil and
analyzing that. Here at the HRBT expansion, we've had the benefit
of the previous two tunnels being built. All of those geotechnical
samples along with the ones that we've done now. And now you can imagine 50
years later, since the last tunnel was built, technology has improved. We
(09:19):
have a really good understanding of how the soil should behave. So
you take all of that understanding of the soil, mix it with some big
Legos, and engineering in one of the biggest tunnel boring machines in North
American history, Mary. She's our second biggest ever. She's our prized possession here,
the namesake of our project. Everybody knows Mary, the tunnel boring machine.
And you put a lot of blood, sweat and tears. And hopefully by
(09:41):
2027, we've got two new tunnels. Since this is a Joe Flanagan
podcast we're working on at this point where you mentioned Mary, I have to add
my family connection. The fact that my father in law, T. Melvin
Butler, was the human resources director NASA Langley when
he was the one who had to hire some computer
experts and he was the one who found the Katherine Johnsons and the Marys and
(10:04):
got them all over there to NASA Langley. And when hidden figures came out,
our hearts just skipped a beat. My wife and I, when we realized
the role he played, she said back in the day, he came home, had his
high ball. You never knew what he did at work, but wow, it's given me
goosebumps just to talk about it. Was he ever a key player in
making all that happen? So I'm tickled that the unit is
(10:25):
named Mary. And for my sake, how long is Mary
and what does Mary do? So I'd like to say Joe, first and foremost, I
think it is so cool in just that, the tie you have to the project
and how many other people in Hampton Roads have some tie.
Whether it was their neighbor that was an electrician and their uncle was a carpenter
on the original cross scene or somebody that was a surveyor. We get stories pouring
(10:48):
in like that. And to me that is the part that
really helps you appreciate how much this means to our entire community.
Everybody's got a tie, everybody's got a story. Whether you sat in traffic for six
hours the night before your wedding or you missed a flight to get
onto your vacation. Everybody's got a story about hrbt. Some more positive than
others, granted. I just think that that is, that's what makes this such
(11:10):
an amazing experience for me and just such a privilege. So back to Mary
Statistics Mary. So she is the second largest
tunnel boring machine in North American history at 46ft in diameter.
Only second to Bertha, who mined out in Seattle. She did the dig out there
for State Route 99. She's 430ft in
length, so longer than a football field. Absolutely huge
(11:32):
machine. She weighs almost
10 million pounds. Now I'm a numbers guy and I
love to equate that to different things. I think we've done the math. It's about,
I think it's 30,000 school buses. My favorite number is,
I think it's almost 4 billion paper clips is what Mary
weighs. Try to put it in perspective for folks at home.
(11:54):
She is an absolute behemoth. She can rotate up to
two and a half times a minute. So I always try to again put that
in terms folks can Relate to. So that's like a two story house, essentially, maybe
a three story house rotating in a circle two and a half times a
minute. I mean, when you think about that, that is absolutely unbelievable. And
she does it completely silently because she's electrically powered.
(12:14):
So it is so hard to appreciate the
magnitude of these machines until you're down on the floor looking up. We have a
lot of folks see aerials and other photos standing around our launch pit looking
down on her. But until you can be shoulder to shoulder and look up at
the massive machine, she is very similar. I know folks familiar with region
here look at aircraft carriers from above and oh, man, they're grand. When you get
(12:37):
on the water in a boat next to them and you see how wide and
how long and how tall they are. And Mary is no different. She is
an absolute engineering feat. Yes. And I have seen
pictures of rotating the blade. That that process is
a whole nother beast. When you finish boring through the one
tunnel, you had to spin it to go back and bore the other one. Talk
(12:57):
about that. Yeah. So the rotation of Mary really important for us. So two tunnels,
right? We have two tunnels. Now we need to build two additional tunnels. So each
of our new tunnels will handle two lanes of traffic. So as we
launched Mary from the Norfolk side, or south island as we like to
refer to it here near Willoughby spit, we mined
7,941ft to be exact, over there to
(13:19):
our North Island. But Mary was only halfway done. So we then had to
take and rotate her, rotate her 180 degrees so that she
could mine from North Islander, near Hampton, back down
to Norfolk. So Mary, when we talk about tunnel boring machines,
the easiest way to think about them is like a train. So you have the
train engine and for us, that's the cutter head and the shield. That's a part
(13:41):
where we drive the machine. It has the force that propels the machine
forward and then behind that, you have train cars, or for us, we call them
gantries. And gantries are simply support cars that have
electrical, mechanical, ventilation equipment, grouting equipment, all the other things
we need to operate the machine. So as we broke through there on
North island on April 17, a day that I will long remember along with
(14:02):
many others, Mary, we had to then disconnect her from her trailing
gear and rotate her cutter head and shield. That piece of equipment
alone was 2500 tons.
So one fifth of the machine is half of the weight when you think about
it. So it's a very dense piece of equipment now to do that. There
really aren't cranes with the capacity readily available to bring them in and
(14:24):
lift Mary up and do that rotation. So we took a book from our
friends across the pond that have done this over in Europe and we
brought in what is referred to as a nitrogen sled. The best way I can
equate this to common terms is if you have those nice plastic discs you put
under heavy pieces of furniture. We put some discs underneath
Mary, that happened to be some steel casings, some steel
(14:46):
discs. We then inject liquid nitrogen between those steel discs
and the floor of our receiving pit, which was also plated with
steel the time. And as that nitrogen hits
atmospheric air pressure and temperature, it boils and creates
a floating cushion, if you will. So in doing that, we're able to
reduce the force of friction required to move Mary by a factor
(15:08):
of 100. So if you take something that weighs 100
pounds and you need to move it with 100 pounds of force, we were moving
that 100 pounds with one pound of force. So great, great reduction.
Really important for us. We then use chain falls. So mix just chain falls. We
use every single day that go back to ancient times, long,
long time ago to just slowly rotate Mary that
(15:29):
180 degrees and line her up. So in doing so, we
shattered the previous world record with us having a 46 foot diameter
TBM and 2500 tons doing that in about an 11 hour shift.
So record setting work being done right here in Hampton
Roads. And I always like to remind folks, we are on the world stage
right now and to get to do that and so many of us, I've
(15:51):
been here for 13 years, Paul has been here for quite a while. Others around
our team have been in Hampton Roads for a long time. To be able to
do those record setting things with Hampton Roads residents I think is
just so, so cool. And Ryan, when you spoke at my Kiwanis
club, you mentioned the best day that you've had was did
I hear 170ft? 171.
(16:11):
I wish it was 171ft. That would be, that would really be
a record setting day. But not, maybe not quite that impressive.
113.2. Very precise here.
113.2ft in a single day. And that equates to 17
rings. So a ring for us, a ring moves us
about six and a half feet. Each of those rings is comprised of nine
(16:33):
segments. So our very best day, 113ft. Our
very best week, 331ft. Feet. And
Ryan, based on distance each day, what's the best guess
for completion to do this whole thing. Well, we'd be
very Easy to take 113, our total length divided by
113, and come up with the number of days. But unfortunately, it's not
(16:55):
quite that simple. So our tunnel boring machine, again, 430ft
in length, takes us about 60 people to run that machine
at any given time. And we usually work 24 hours a day, five days a
week. Now those two reserve days, that's maintenance, cleaning things up, making
sure we have everything we need, also letting folks spend some time with their
families. Our initial trip was anticipated to take one
(17:17):
year, and we're very proud to say it took us 51 weeks.
Our return trip though. And if you think about Mary again, we mentioned
aircraft carriers before, you know, she is a massive piece of
equipment. She was custom built for our project. She is the
largest of her kind. So it takes time to learn how
she will operate. And on our initial bore, we took it easy on her. We
(17:39):
wanted Mary to get in there, understand how she operates, how she works in
certain conditions. And again, we mentioned those 60 people. It is an
absolute ballet of having equipment, having people,
having spoils, spoils, disposal, bringing segments in. All those things
have to line up exactly right, so 113ft. We don't
replicate that day in, day out. Our return trip though, because we've
(18:01):
already bored. Once we know how Mary works, our crews have learned how to
work together, we know how we can operate best, we can anticipate
needs. We think in the return trip, we'll probably do that in
about 10 months. So our goal right now is to launch Mary here in the
coming months, fall of 2024. And if we do things right, we hope by
summer of 2025 she will break through there on south
(18:23):
island for one heck of a self celebration. I promise you that. I'm
sure one of the fascinating things too is some of the artifacts
that have been uncovered by this process. Touch on some of those.
They're just amazing. Yeah, I always like to say these are the things they
never teach you about in engineering school. What to do when you get the phone
call that says, ryan, we found a bone. What are you supposed to do? So
(18:45):
we've had many artifacts uncovered here. I think some of the coolest ones
to highlight, we have nine Civil War era cannonball.
So here, the Hampton Roads region, we're all very familiar with the Battle of the
Ironclads. And we are immediately adjacent to Fort Wool,
which was previously Fort Calhoun, but that was very near the Battle
of the Ironclads that happened right here out in Hampton Flats in the Hampton Roads
(19:07):
Harbor. During our excavation of south island, we found
nine of those cannonballs, Four of which, working with our friends up at Langley,
they came down and detonated them. Those we still retain possession of
five, two of which reside in our welcome center in Norfolk.
On top of the military artifacts we found, also
including a helmet liner. Additionally, during our excavation
(19:29):
of north island, in preparation for island expansion work, we came
across a shipwreck. And working with William and Mary, a great partnership, the project
developed, we were able to date that back, using newspaper articles,
to 1823, a shipwreck that was carrying granite
to Fort Monroe, which, if you didn't know, is the largest stone fort in the
United States. Like a pretty cool piece of history. I never knew. But that ship
(19:52):
was carrying both granite and cattle because cattle were a beast of burden.
It wrecked around early April of 1823. We were able to find from
newspaper clippings. We found that. And working with William and Mary, were able to
date it, source it, and have a better understanding of history.
But the very coolest part, and I always say this, you know, I have a
small son at home. We talk about tunnel boring machines constantly.
(20:14):
He wants to know what snacks they have, where they sit, how they get there,
where do you go to the bathroom? And I thought I was pretty cool for
that. But it wasn't until I got to tell him that we found mastodon remains
on our project that I became really cool, because in his mind, that's a
dinosaur, so no way to be cooler than that. But we did have that
really amazing find in the fall of 2023, during excavation of the tunnel using the
(20:34):
TBM, somebody happened to see on our slurry
treatment plant, where all the spoils are separated from the slurry,
that there was something that didn't look like the others. We like to say they
stopped the conveyor, pulled it out. And working with the Virginia Museum of Natural
History, we were able to discover that we found the remains of a
mastodon, very likely between 12 and 50,000 years
(20:56):
old. Also very likely was walking in a
freshwater area and walked into a mud pit and
was succumbed by the circumstances. And some 12 to 50,000 years
later, here, we find that amazing.
It is so cool to think that we are finding things of,
you know, modern history, right? Civil War, kind of believe that's modern history, but when
(21:18):
you're comparing it to something 50,000 years old, pretty darn modern. So
I'll say, just fascinating. Paula, your thoughts on
that, just incredible. History that is uncovered.
And we're just scratching the surface, too. You know, we're very excited
to see if we find even more going back.
Nothing to interrupt the mining process, of course, but just more
(21:40):
cool things that little Henry might enjoy hearing about and
seeing. But other children, and that's, you know, that's a big. You make a
good point about all this history, because we're really. We do
have a story to tell. And that's kind of my role in the
project is to keep the public informed, not only about
traffic impacts, but what this project really means to the
(22:02):
region and how they either have a connection to
it or how it's going to improve their life in the
future. But not only, you know, Mary and Catherine, who you
talked about, which is just so cool because we're learning so much about history.
And I love that movie, Hidden Figures. That's just wonderful.
But, you know, we're going to fast forward, and this is going to be in
(22:24):
the history books, this project. And, you know, we had
10 immersed tubes here in Hampton Roads prior to this
project. And this is the first board tunnel for vdot.
Interesting. So it's a big difference. And, you know, people
drive by every day, traffic's whizzing by. Ryan and I might
be out on the island, north island or south island, and
(22:46):
traffic's whizzing by, and everybody's going about their daily lives.
But 65ft below that roadway surface,
there is a heck of a lot of activity going on. People don't realize it,
so we have to either tell them about it, show them in
videos, things that they can see on our website,
hrbtexpansion.org or hear about in our
(23:08):
podcast, which. And we appreciate your interest in
the project. Hear about the Project, our monthly newsletter.
There are just so many avenues for outreach. We have a
large component in terms of, you know, reaching out to the public. The
Kiwanis Club, your Kiwanis Club, Civic leagues, Girl Scout
clubs. So many people want to know about this project. I have a neighbor,
(23:30):
a retiree, every time he sees me out, he crosses the street to come ask
me, hey, what's happening today? You know, they're just so
enamored with the magnitude of the project. And,
you know, this is kind of new. Cool. A board tunnel. They're
curious. So everything we can do
to inform the public, make them understand that this is
(23:52):
their tunnel. And this is going to be for the next generation,
for Ryan's children, you know, in the future
generations, because, as he said, these are tunnels that have a 100
year lifespan. What we're doing today is really for future
generations. So it's really a joy and a
pleasure to be part of this and to tell that story and to make
(24:14):
sure people understand how their dollars are being
spent and how it's going to improve their life
and make sure that there's travel reliability and that
congestion is relieved. So, well
said. I think we can wrap at this point. We have had
a great conversation. Conversation. I have learned so much from both of
(24:36):
you guys. Let's call this one a day and Joe Flanagan will jump
in at another time. Thank you both.
After 31 years at 13 News, now I was probably
best known for my Joe's Job series. At the
core of 42 years in local TV newsrooms, one
important word defines me. Curiosity.
Yes. I've always been curious about the who, what, where, when, and
why who my subjects are, what they're curious
(00:31):
about, where are their roots, and why do they do
what they do. What a great place to start the
Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel expansion project.
I've driven it since I moved here in 1980. Now they
just might be on the verge of something we never thought
VDOT could do again. One word,
(00:54):
expansion.
Well, Joe Flanagan sitting here with Ryan Banas, who
is the project director for the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel
expansion project. Ryan, there's a million questions to
ask you. Before I do that, I want to also say Paula Miller is seated
here with us, too, an old friend of mine. Paula Miller, Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel
(01:17):
Expansion Project Communications director. Nice to have you with us,
Paula. Thanks, Joe. Wow. Like I say, Ryan,
where do we begin? This goes so far back. And
I heard you talk to our Kiwanis Club, and you started, and 25 minutes
later, we all said, wow, you could go another 25 minutes. Tell
us how you got involved and what your responsibility is on this
(01:39):
project. Well, I'll say that my involvement at the HRBT
expansion, just sheer luck. Absolute sheer luck. So with
the retirement of the previous project director, VDOT
was looking for somebody to fill his shoes for several months. I think I was
at the bottom of the barrel. Went up to Richmond on a Wednesday morning and
was sold Wednesday afternoon. You need to be on the project Monday morning, bright
(02:01):
and early, ready to go. So very much a shift in the plans for
myself and my family. We've been in Hampton roads now almost 13 years,
but at that time, we really didn't know what was going to be next for
us. But it has been an amazing journey and a phenomenal
opportunity, both for my career, but also just
professionally and personally rewarding to be a part of something
(02:22):
that is so much big than any one of us or any
agency, really, even bigger than our region, because when this project is
complete, it is going to absolutely transform Hampton Roads and
Virginia. Can't wait. And we go from two
lanes to four. Yeah. So right now, across the corridor, we have
two lanes in each direction. Folks are very, very familiar with that. If you travel
(02:43):
through our corridor at the end of the project, once we're complete, we will
have eight total lanes, four in either direction.
Now, we'll always. A lot of folks talk about the Tolling, and that is a
part of the HRBT Expans Mansion and the larger Hampton Roads Express
Lane network. But one thing we really love to highlight about the project
is the two lanes of free capacity that you have today will
(03:05):
always exist. Those will always be there, always be free of charge for everybody
to use. As a result of the project, the two additional lanes in each
direction we're adding will allow HOV occupants of two or
more people to ride on those for free. So there are two additional lanes for
people to have the opportunity to ride on. In addition, if you're a single
rider, you can join those HOV riders
(03:28):
for a fee or a toll. And I think what's really important as we talk
about that toll, that toll, is simply to
manage congestion on those lanes. As an HOV lane, we're required
to maintain a minimum level of service, which is 45 miles an
hour. So as those lanes get a little bit more congested,
typically due to those additional single riders who are paying that fee, we
(03:49):
incrementally raise that fee to persuade them to
stay in the general purpose lanes. And that's really to provide those HOV folks
that consistent ride of at least 45 miles an hour. And if you can
want to make the investment and spend the money, you can still do that as
a single rider. But really important to know that we will always have those two
free lanes in each direction. Nice. And how much further are those lanes
(04:11):
than just at the Bridge Tunnel? Yes, it's a really great story. We talk
about the Hampton Roads expressing network. So from Patrick Henry Field or the
Newport News Airport all the way down to Bowers hill. So a
45 mile network when this is all said and done. So the
current timeline and bringing that entire Network Online is
2028. Now, if you've been in Hampton Roads for any time, the reversible lanes that
(04:33):
go from the 264 interchange up to 564, those have been in
operation since I believe about 2017. So that's a part of
this network. Additionally, the section that goes from the 264
interchange to Bowers Hill, that includes the High Rise Bridge, which we opened up earlier
this year in 2024, that's already operational as well. So we already have a
couple segments in place. But the remainder from
(04:55):
the 564 interchange all the way up to Patrick Henry Field, that
is under construction right now, that comprises four other
projects, three of which are actively under construction. One of them is nearing
procurement. So it is lots of barrels and cones here in
Jersey walls for the next few years. But come 2028, it is going to
absolutely be a different corridor. The goal to alleviate
(05:18):
traffic backups. And will it work? Yeah, I absolutely.
Joe, we are so excited. So it's, you know, ease congestion, increase
travel time reliability and provide choices to folks going through the corridor.
I will say I've had the privilege of working on several large
projects in my career down here in Hampton Roads. I did the Gilmerton Bridge years
ago as a young engineer when we opened up the additional lanes there,
(05:40):
raised that bridge so we didn't have to have so many bridge openings. Traffic
improved dramatically. Fast forward. Then I got the privilege of working
at the Midtown Tunnel and I can remember those backups on Hampton Boulevard going all
the way to odu Every afternoon we opened up that
second lane. Traffic went away immediately. Here at the
hrbt, I don't even think we fully appreciate how
(06:02):
transformative this is going to be, but at the end of the day, if things
go as we plan, as we've engineered, as we've designed, we are going to be
looking at a truly different experience driving across
the harbor here. And I'm so excited to see that happen.
Me too. Been here since 1980, so 44 years of it can't
wait. Paula Ryan, you wanted to mention too, there's a. You
(06:23):
mentioned the Midtown, but you have experience on other tunnels. Yes. The
Midtown is not my first tunnel. So my tunnel experience goes all the way back
to my time spent up in Manhattan. So prior to coming to the Gilmerton
Bridge, the Manhattan, New York City, very great time in my
career. Not only did I get to work on my first subway system and tunnels,
I also met my fiance who became my wife. Very good. So good time in
(06:44):
my life. But we started there, then came down here, Gilmerton, Midtown.
And then I also had the privilege of working at the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel
for about five years from about 2015 to 2020, as that project was
going through procurement startup and all the preparatory works towards
mining and then throwing the mix along there at our wonderful Arlington
National Cemetery up in Arlington, Virginia, I had an opportunity to work on
(07:07):
a small tunnel there that we're putting underneath the roadway connecting the
cemetery to a new maintenance facility. I will say for our
listeners that have the opportunity to go up there, that is such an amazing
facility. And the expansion work that's going on at Arlington National Cemetery
is unbelievable. Which is actually managed out of Norfolk,
the Norfolk Army Corps of Engineers base right here in downtown. So if you ever
(07:29):
take a boat near downtown you'll see the Army Corps of Engineers headquarters
that Arlington National Cemetery falls under their purview. So that was another
really, really cool project that I've had the pleasure of working on. So neat
to be a part of something that honors our nation's heroes. And
you know, in engineering, we always talk about life expectancy. In Arlington National
Cemetery, I was in a meeting, I said, what's the life expectancy? 50, 100 years.
(07:52):
And they looked at me, said, ryan, it's forever. This does not go away.
So he kind of, you know, we talk HRBT, we're very proud, 100 year design
life. But Arlington National Cemetery, I'll tell you, no expense
spared. Forever is one heck of a design code to try and
meet. Absolutely. Let's talk about the interesting
tidbits of making this new tunnel happen.
(08:13):
50ft deeper than the old tunnels. How in the world do
you engineer that? You know, a lot of our engineering,
and I say this to, you know, folks I talk to every day, people get
so overwhelmed and think about how cumbersome and how meticulous and how in depth
it must be. It's big Legos. That's really what we're looking at here.
And of all the engineering disciplines, geotechnical
(08:35):
engineering or digging in the earth is the least scientific. It's orders of
magnitude and best guesses because as you can imagine, we
don't know what's in every single inch of the ground. So we use large factors
of safety. A lot of experience goes into making those
determinations. But here for us, one of the things that we've really benefited at the
HRBT is with all of the previous construction we've had throughout our
(08:56):
corridor, anytime we start construction, we do a lot of geotechnical sampling. And
that's simply putting a drill bit in the ground, pulling up soil and
analyzing that. Here at the HRBT expansion, we've had the benefit
of the previous two tunnels being built. All of those geotechnical
samples along with the ones that we've done now. And now you can imagine 50
years later, since the last tunnel was built, technology has improved. We
(09:19):
have a really good understanding of how the soil should behave. So
you take all of that understanding of the soil, mix it with some big
Legos, and engineering in one of the biggest tunnel boring machines in North
American history, Mary. She's our second biggest ever. She's our prized possession here,
the namesake of our project. Everybody knows Mary, the tunnel boring machine.
And you put a lot of blood, sweat and tears. And hopefully by
(09:41):
2027, we've got two new tunnels. Since this is a Joe Flanagan
podcast we're working on at this point where you mentioned Mary, I have to add
my family connection. The fact that my father in law, T. Melvin
Butler, was the human resources director NASA Langley when
he was the one who had to hire some computer
experts and he was the one who found the Katherine Johnsons and the Marys and
(10:04):
got them all over there to NASA Langley. And when hidden figures came out,
our hearts just skipped a beat. My wife and I, when we realized
the role he played, she said back in the day, he came home, had his
high ball. You never knew what he did at work, but wow, it's given me
goosebumps just to talk about it. Was he ever a key player in
making all that happen? So I'm tickled that the unit is
(10:25):
named Mary. And for my sake, how long is Mary
and what does Mary do? So I'd like to say Joe, first and foremost, I
think it is so cool in just that, the tie you have to the project
and how many other people in Hampton Roads have some tie.
Whether it was their neighbor that was an electrician and their uncle was a carpenter
on the original cross scene or somebody that was a surveyor. We get stories pouring
(10:48):
in like that. And to me that is the part that
really helps you appreciate how much this means to our entire community.
Everybody's got a tie, everybody's got a story. Whether you sat in traffic for six
hours the night before your wedding or you missed a flight to get
onto your vacation. Everybody's got a story about hrbt. Some more positive than
others, granted. I just think that that is, that's what makes this such
(11:10):
an amazing experience for me and just such a privilege. So back to Mary
Statistics Mary. So she is the second largest
tunnel boring machine in North American history at 46ft in diameter.
Only second to Bertha, who mined out in Seattle. She did the dig out there
for State Route 99. She's 430ft in
length, so longer than a football field. Absolutely huge
(11:32):
machine. She weighs almost
10 million pounds. Now I'm a numbers guy and I
love to equate that to different things. I think we've done the math. It's about,
I think it's 30,000 school buses. My favorite number is,
I think it's almost 4 billion paper clips is what Mary
weighs. Try to put it in perspective for folks at home.
(11:54):
She is an absolute behemoth. She can rotate up to
two and a half times a minute. So I always try to again put that
in terms folks can Relate to. So that's like a two story house, essentially, maybe
a three story house rotating in a circle two and a half times a
minute. I mean, when you think about that, that is absolutely unbelievable. And
she does it completely silently because she's electrically powered.
(12:14):
So it is so hard to appreciate the
magnitude of these machines until you're down on the floor looking up. We have a
lot of folks see aerials and other photos standing around our launch pit looking
down on her. But until you can be shoulder to shoulder and look up at
the massive machine, she is very similar. I know folks familiar with region
here look at aircraft carriers from above and oh, man, they're grand. When you get
(12:37):
on the water in a boat next to them and you see how wide and
how long and how tall they are. And Mary is no different. She is
an absolute engineering feat. Yes. And I have seen
pictures of rotating the blade. That that process is
a whole nother beast. When you finish boring through the one
tunnel, you had to spin it to go back and bore the other one. Talk
(12:57):
about that. Yeah. So the rotation of Mary really important for us. So two tunnels,
right? We have two tunnels. Now we need to build two additional tunnels. So each
of our new tunnels will handle two lanes of traffic. So as we
launched Mary from the Norfolk side, or south island as we like to
refer to it here near Willoughby spit, we mined
7,941ft to be exact, over there to
(13:19):
our North Island. But Mary was only halfway done. So we then had to
take and rotate her, rotate her 180 degrees so that she
could mine from North Islander, near Hampton, back down
to Norfolk. So Mary, when we talk about tunnel boring machines,
the easiest way to think about them is like a train. So you have the
train engine and for us, that's the cutter head and the shield. That's a part
(13:41):
where we drive the machine. It has the force that propels the machine
forward and then behind that, you have train cars, or for us, we call them
gantries. And gantries are simply support cars that have
electrical, mechanical, ventilation equipment, grouting equipment, all the other things
we need to operate the machine. So as we broke through there on
North island on April 17, a day that I will long remember along with
(14:02):
many others, Mary, we had to then disconnect her from her trailing
gear and rotate her cutter head and shield. That piece of equipment
alone was 2500 tons.
So one fifth of the machine is half of the weight when you think about
it. So it's a very dense piece of equipment now to do that. There
really aren't cranes with the capacity readily available to bring them in and
(14:24):
lift Mary up and do that rotation. So we took a book from our
friends across the pond that have done this over in Europe and we
brought in what is referred to as a nitrogen sled. The best way I can
equate this to common terms is if you have those nice plastic discs you put
under heavy pieces of furniture. We put some discs underneath
Mary, that happened to be some steel casings, some steel
(14:46):
discs. We then inject liquid nitrogen between those steel discs
and the floor of our receiving pit, which was also plated with
steel the time. And as that nitrogen hits
atmospheric air pressure and temperature, it boils and creates
a floating cushion, if you will. So in doing that, we're able to
reduce the force of friction required to move Mary by a factor
(15:08):
of 100. So if you take something that weighs 100
pounds and you need to move it with 100 pounds of force, we were moving
that 100 pounds with one pound of force. So great, great reduction.
Really important for us. We then use chain falls. So mix just chain falls. We
use every single day that go back to ancient times, long,
long time ago to just slowly rotate Mary that
(15:29):
180 degrees and line her up. So in doing so, we
shattered the previous world record with us having a 46 foot diameter
TBM and 2500 tons doing that in about an 11 hour shift.
So record setting work being done right here in Hampton
Roads. And I always like to remind folks, we are on the world stage
right now and to get to do that and so many of us, I've
(15:51):
been here for 13 years, Paul has been here for quite a while. Others around
our team have been in Hampton Roads for a long time. To be able to
do those record setting things with Hampton Roads residents I think is
just so, so cool. And Ryan, when you spoke at my Kiwanis
club, you mentioned the best day that you've had was did
I hear 170ft? 171.
(16:11):
I wish it was 171ft. That would be, that would really be
a record setting day. But not, maybe not quite that impressive.
113.2. Very precise here.
113.2ft in a single day. And that equates to 17
rings. So a ring for us, a ring moves us
about six and a half feet. Each of those rings is comprised of nine
(16:33):
segments. So our very best day, 113ft. Our
very best week, 331ft. Feet. And
Ryan, based on distance each day, what's the best guess
for completion to do this whole thing. Well, we'd be
very Easy to take 113, our total length divided by
113, and come up with the number of days. But unfortunately, it's not
(16:55):
quite that simple. So our tunnel boring machine, again, 430ft
in length, takes us about 60 people to run that machine
at any given time. And we usually work 24 hours a day, five days a
week. Now those two reserve days, that's maintenance, cleaning things up, making
sure we have everything we need, also letting folks spend some time with their
families. Our initial trip was anticipated to take one
(17:17):
year, and we're very proud to say it took us 51 weeks.
Our return trip though. And if you think about Mary again, we mentioned
aircraft carriers before, you know, she is a massive piece of
equipment. She was custom built for our project. She is the
largest of her kind. So it takes time to learn how
she will operate. And on our initial bore, we took it easy on her. We
(17:39):
wanted Mary to get in there, understand how she operates, how she works in
certain conditions. And again, we mentioned those 60 people. It is an
absolute ballet of having equipment, having people,
having spoils, spoils, disposal, bringing segments in. All those things
have to line up exactly right, so 113ft. We don't
replicate that day in, day out. Our return trip though, because we've
(18:01):
already bored. Once we know how Mary works, our crews have learned how to
work together, we know how we can operate best, we can anticipate
needs. We think in the return trip, we'll probably do that in
about 10 months. So our goal right now is to launch Mary here in the
coming months, fall of 2024. And if we do things right, we hope by
summer of 2025 she will break through there on south
(18:23):
island for one heck of a self celebration. I promise you that. I'm
sure one of the fascinating things too is some of the artifacts
that have been uncovered by this process. Touch on some of those.
They're just amazing. Yeah, I always like to say these are the things they
never teach you about in engineering school. What to do when you get the phone
call that says, ryan, we found a bone. What are you supposed to do? So
(18:45):
we've had many artifacts uncovered here. I think some of the coolest ones
to highlight, we have nine Civil War era cannonball.
So here, the Hampton Roads region, we're all very familiar with the Battle of the
Ironclads. And we are immediately adjacent to Fort Wool,
which was previously Fort Calhoun, but that was very near the Battle
of the Ironclads that happened right here out in Hampton Flats in the Hampton Roads
(19:07):
Harbor. During our excavation of south island, we found
nine of those cannonballs, Four of which, working with our friends up at Langley,
they came down and detonated them. Those we still retain possession of
five, two of which reside in our welcome center in Norfolk.
On top of the military artifacts we found, also
including a helmet liner. Additionally, during our excavation
(19:29):
of north island, in preparation for island expansion work, we came
across a shipwreck. And working with William and Mary, a great partnership, the project
developed, we were able to date that back, using newspaper articles,
to 1823, a shipwreck that was carrying granite
to Fort Monroe, which, if you didn't know, is the largest stone fort in the
United States. Like a pretty cool piece of history. I never knew. But that ship
(19:52):
was carrying both granite and cattle because cattle were a beast of burden.
It wrecked around early April of 1823. We were able to find from
newspaper clippings. We found that. And working with William and Mary, were able to
date it, source it, and have a better understanding of history.
But the very coolest part, and I always say this, you know, I have a
small son at home. We talk about tunnel boring machines constantly.
(20:14):
He wants to know what snacks they have, where they sit, how they get there,
where do you go to the bathroom? And I thought I was pretty cool for
that. But it wasn't until I got to tell him that we found mastodon remains
on our project that I became really cool, because in his mind, that's a
dinosaur, so no way to be cooler than that. But we did have that
really amazing find in the fall of 2023, during excavation of the tunnel using the
(20:34):
TBM, somebody happened to see on our slurry
treatment plant, where all the spoils are separated from the slurry,
that there was something that didn't look like the others. We like to say they
stopped the conveyor, pulled it out. And working with the Virginia Museum of Natural
History, we were able to discover that we found the remains of a
mastodon, very likely between 12 and 50,000 years
(20:56):
old. Also very likely was walking in a
freshwater area and walked into a mud pit and
was succumbed by the circumstances. And some 12 to 50,000 years
later, here, we find that amazing.
It is so cool to think that we are finding things of,
you know, modern history, right? Civil War, kind of believe that's modern history, but when
(21:18):
you're comparing it to something 50,000 years old, pretty darn modern. So
I'll say, just fascinating. Paula, your thoughts on
that, just incredible. History that is uncovered.
And we're just scratching the surface, too. You know, we're very excited
to see if we find even more going back.
Nothing to interrupt the mining process, of course, but just more
(21:40):
cool things that little Henry might enjoy hearing about and
seeing. But other children, and that's, you know, that's a big. You make a
good point about all this history, because we're really. We do
have a story to tell. And that's kind of my role in the
project is to keep the public informed, not only about
traffic impacts, but what this project really means to the
(22:02):
region and how they either have a connection to
it or how it's going to improve their life in the
future. But not only, you know, Mary and Catherine, who you
talked about, which is just so cool because we're learning so much about history.
And I love that movie, Hidden Figures. That's just wonderful.
But, you know, we're going to fast forward, and this is going to be in
(22:24):
the history books, this project. And, you know, we had
10 immersed tubes here in Hampton Roads prior to this
project. And this is the first board tunnel for vdot.
Interesting. So it's a big difference. And, you know, people
drive by every day, traffic's whizzing by. Ryan and I might
be out on the island, north island or south island, and
(22:46):
traffic's whizzing by, and everybody's going about their daily lives.
But 65ft below that roadway surface,
there is a heck of a lot of activity going on. People don't realize it,
so we have to either tell them about it, show them in
videos, things that they can see on our website,
hrbtexpansion.org or hear about in our
(23:08):
podcast, which. And we appreciate your interest in
the project. Hear about the Project, our monthly newsletter.
There are just so many avenues for outreach. We have a
large component in terms of, you know, reaching out to the public. The
Kiwanis Club, your Kiwanis Club, Civic leagues, Girl Scout
clubs. So many people want to know about this project. I have a neighbor,
(23:30):
a retiree, every time he sees me out, he crosses the street to come ask
me, hey, what's happening today? You know, they're just so
enamored with the magnitude of the project. And,
you know, this is kind of new. Cool. A board tunnel. They're
curious. So everything we can do
to inform the public, make them understand that this is
(23:52):
their tunnel. And this is going to be for the next generation,
for Ryan's children, you know, in the future
generations, because, as he said, these are tunnels that have a 100
year lifespan. What we're doing today is really for future
generations. So it's really a joy and a
pleasure to be part of this and to tell that story and to make
(24:14):
sure people understand how their dollars are being
spent and how it's going to improve their life
and make sure that there's travel reliability and that
congestion is relieved. So, well
said. I think we can wrap at this point. We have had
a great conversation. Conversation. I have learned so much from both of
(24:36):
you guys. Let's call this one a day and Joe Flanagan will jump
in at another time. Thank you both.
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