May 11, 2025 • 55 mins
What’s it like to explore France on your own? In A Solo Traveler’s Experience in Southwest France, host Annie Sargent chats with Dawn Fairchild, a seasoned traveler from Los Angeles who set out on a two-week solo adventure through the stunning regions of the Lot, Dordogne, and Toulouse.
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Dawn shares her honest impressions, travel tips, and favorite moments—from learning French in a relaxed immersion program near Cahors to wandering the medieval streets of Sarlat. She talks about her visit to the painted cave at Pech Merle, wine tasting in Cahors, the markets of Toulouse, and unexpected joys like stumbling into a vide-grenier in Montignac. Annie and Dawn discuss beautiful châteaux like Beynac and Milandes, Josephine Baker’s legacy, and how Southwest France is a treasure trove of history, food, and natural beauty.
Whether you're dreaming about Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, want to explore Toulouse’s vibrant markets, or plan to visit the Cité du Vin in Bordeaux, this episode is packed with useful details and inspiration. Annie and Dawn also reflect on the joys and challenges of solo travel, including navigating language and culture with confidence.
Subscribe to Join Us in France for more conversations like this—real stories from travelers who dive deep into French life, culture, and history. New episodes drop every week. Let’s look around France together!
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
This is Join Us in France, episode545, cinq cent quarante-cinq.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withDawn Fairchild about her unforgettable
(00:36):
solo adventure in the Southwest of France.
From exploring medieval villagesto indulging in local delicacies,
Dawn's insights and experienceswill inspire your next trip.
Listen in for our travel tips,hidden gems, and a joyous account
of French culture and hospitality.
This podcast exists thanks tolisteners who support my work.
(00:59):
Some book itinerary consults,others buy my GPS self-guided
tours on the VoiceMap app.
Some become patrons or book aday trip with me in the Southwest
of France in my electric car.
You'll find all of that atjoinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And if you want the podcast ad-freeas soon as it's ready, join us on
(01:20):
Patreon for as little as $3 a month.
The link for that is in the show notes.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Dawn today,
I'll discuss hidden messages in theobelisk at the Place de la Concorde.
Hmm.
How mysterious!
You can see all the links to theplaces we discuss and read the
(01:40):
full transcript on the episode pageat joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
Bonjour, Dawn Fairchild, andwelcome to Join Us in France.
Hi, Annie.
(02:01):
It's a pleasure to be here,thank you for having me.
Oh, it's... you're goingto be right in my alley.
We're going to talk about yourtrip in the Southwest of France,
so I'm going to feel right at home.
When did this trip take place?
Started at the end of June 2024.
And it was a four-week trip but twoweeks of it were in the Southwest
(02:23):
of France before I headed up tothe UK for a couple of weeks.
Wonderful.
So was this your first time in theSouthwest, or had you visited before?
I've been to France a lot oftimes but I have never been to the
Southwest, and I was, you know, Ihave to say I've been very inspired
by the podcast, and especially theboot camp to visit that area, the
(02:44):
boot camp that you host annually.
Through listening to the podcast I'velearned what a incredibly rich region
of France that is as far as, you know,history, you've got an extraordinary
pre-historic relics, you have renaissancehistory, a vast amount of Medieval
history, there's extraordinary wineregions, it's breathtakingly gorgeous,
(03:07):
you know, everything that I wouldhear, through trip reports or in you
talking with Elyse on the podcastreally made me think, "I've got to go
there and do a deeper dive myself."
Well, thank you so much.
And to add to that, to yourwonderful description, now, a... oh,
what's the name of that magazine?
Now Lonely Planet has namedToulouse as the best destination
(03:29):
to go to in 2025, so woo-hoo.
Well, I think I'm going to have tomake a return trip in 2025 then.
Yes, yes.
So we had done an itinerary consult.
We've talked many times because you'realso a patron, so thank you for that.
You come to the Zooms and all that, soyou've gotten to ask all your questions.
(03:49):
Were you surprised by anything,besides how much you liked it?
Was I surprised by anything?
You may remember from our itineraryconsultation that I was a little
trepidatious because I'm terrified ofheights, and so everything was just
like, "Okay, is this going to scare me?"
And you were fantastic andfound photos of things so I
(04:10):
could kind of gauge all of that.
It's a lot less scary thanI envisioned it would be.
I was thinking, just big cliffs anddrop-offs and that sort of thing.
I mean, it's hills, absolutely, andsome didn't have a whole lot of space
or guardrails between me and the edge.
So I, I found it to be just incrediblyaccessible, but I think... I don't...
(04:32):
You know, France is so beautiful,but I was absolutely stunned at
how beautiful the region was.
You don't drive for 15 or 20 minuteswithout, you know, "Oh my gosh,
there is a chateau on the top ofthat hillside," or there are caves
built out through that cliff wall,or there is a river or a valley.
It is so just very rich anddiverse in what it has to offer.
(04:56):
And I think that surprised me, just,you know, it's almost the embarrassment
of riches, in the Southwest.
Yeah.
So let's talk about the placesyou went to specifically.
You rented a car, right,for part of this trip?
Yeah, I did.
I did.
For the entire time that I was in theLot department and in the Dordogne.
Mm-hmm.
(05:16):
So where all did you go?
Tell us about the namesof the places you went.
Okay.
Well, I started out my trip with kind ofa mini language immersion at a chambre
d'hote with an associated languageschool outside, right outside of Cahors,
like 10 minutes outside of Cahors.
And that is called Les Fraises.
What I really loved about this place isthat... Well, it was gorgeous, first off.
(05:42):
You know, it was a beautiful,beautiful chambre d'hote.
I had a lovely, lovely, lovely room witha private terrace overlooking the pool
and the valley and it was just gorgeous.
But they really let you customizeyour language learning based on your
own personal goals and travel type.
Some people might do, you know, likea week or two-week stay where they
(06:02):
live, in the house with the teachersand make meals together, and it's
just 24/7 of language learning.
You know, I was on vacation andkind of wanted to go a little
easier on myself than that.
And so, you know, I would interactwith the hosts over the most
beautiful breakfast, the hostsand the guests up on the terrace.
And they would provide consultationabout activities that I was planning
(06:25):
on doing that day, and it was reallykind of a mini tourism office.
They had every possible brochure.
And then, you know, I'd go off onmy own and explore, return in the
evenings, have a glass of wine.
One evening we went to alocal food festival that I
never would've known about.
You know, the host said, all we haveto do is bring cutlery and show up
(06:46):
and you get free local food, wine.
There was some local performers singingEdith Piaf covers with a portable mic,
and it was absolutely fantastic andI think- I mean, really gave me more
confidence right away at the beginningof my trip in my language abilities.
And so it just, I think, set me upto really dive in, in a way that
(07:06):
I haven't in past trips to France.
And also, I was going to a lotof really smaller villages where
people weren't necessarily goingto default to English either.
So that's where I started.
And I'll put a link to thisservice, to this school and,
I guess, lodgings as well.
They do both, right?
So is it like a home stay with them?
(07:28):
It can be, if that's what you choose.
Through their immersion program, I mean,they do have guest rooms within the
house where you cook dinner with thefamily, you engage all your waking hours.
They go on sightseeing trips with you.
You can do that or you can do what Ichose to do or somewhere in between,
and I chose to be in one of their, theyhave two guest accommodations that have
(07:52):
private entrances, they're absolutelylovely seating areas, big comfortable
bed, the biggest bathroom I've everhad in France, a private terrace.
And then you have access toa shared kitchen as well.
They have two of those and arebuilding out a guest apartment.
So you can really choose, you know,what you want the experience to be.
Yeah.
Or if you just want to stay there,enjoy the region, you don't even
(08:16):
have to do the language component.
But, you know, for me it was a great wayto, to start my trip to really kind of
delve into confidently speaking French.
Right, so were there any sit downclasses or was it mostly just
interacting with these people?
It's really interacting.
I think because it's so small, atmost they would have maybe three,
four people, and so they're reallyable to customize the experience and
(08:39):
balance their schedule so that they'renot going to have five people that
want the full on immersion, you know.
They were able to really balance, okay,few hours, morning, evening, with me,
with other learners throughout the day.
Hmm, very nice.
Yeah, and it's really interesting, theyvery much customize the conversation
and your learning plan based onyour own motivations and interests.
(09:03):
So I find that to be a reallyeffective way to learn.
Yes, and so this where you startedyour stay and then you... So you
had a car, so then you moved onto...
Well, while I was there, I did acouple of things in the region.
The first off was I went to the Grottede Pech-Merle, beautiful, extraordinary
pre-historic painted caves that youcan still actually go in with a guide.
(09:27):
And that was just... I mean, thesethings were... The paintings were
created as long ago as 29,000years by Cro-Magnon men and women.
I know that on the boot campyou take people to that.
And it is just extraordinary.
It's quite humbling.
Yeah, it's really fascinating to realizethat these were people just like us.
(09:49):
And I think it's too easy for us to think,"Oh, people in the past, they weren't like
me, they didn't have the same feelings.They didn't have the same needs."
But actually, they were.
They were humans just like us, andit's extraordinary that at a time
when there was no writing, and for avery long time, there was no writing.
(10:09):
That's why we know so littleabout these people is because they
didn't leave any written anything,but they left some pictures.
Absolutely.
And one of the things that I foundreally fascinating were some of the
pictures, there was a hand print bythem with an outline of paint, and the
guide was telling us that they would,you know, kind of like, blow out the
(10:33):
paint in their mouth around their hand.
And I mean, to me, that was, is this theirway of signing the work, of asserting, you
know, that I created this and I was there?
I thought it, you know, all thevery human inclinations just are
so apparent in visiting that place.
I'd highly, highly recommend it.
Right, right.
(10:53):
So there was, there were systems ofwriting but that's really basically
the reason why we don't know that much.
Until we get to a good standard ofwriting that we can still understand,
it's hard to know what they were thinking.
But we know for sure they were peoplejust like us and so it's always...
Yeah, I think Pech-Merle is abeautiful visit and not to be missed.
(11:14):
You do have to book it in advance.
In the summer months, it can fill out.
Their website is not super reliable,so if it says there are no tickets
left, give them a call because, ithappened to me, where the website
said full and it wasn't full at all.
It's just that... Well, it's complicated.
(11:34):
I'm not going to go into why itwas, they made the mistake, but
it was a mistake on their part.
So don't give up.
Do give them a call, look at thewebsite, but try to book this at
least a month in advance, is ideal.
Absolutely, very good advice.
Well, I was near Cahors as well.
I went to Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, whichis... I know you've done an episode
(11:55):
about it with Elyse on the podcast.
It's so beautiful.
People go to this place.
It's just magical.
There's the Château de Cardillac,am I butchering the pronunciation?
No, no, that's it.
Well, actually there were severalchâteaus, they went through, the
village went through several lords,and they each built their own place.
None of the châteaus are really, there'snot much left of them at this point.
(12:19):
But it's really interesting to seehow they lived, the sort of lifestyle
they had, the medieval stuff wherethey had to, you know, everybody came
into the walls at night, they wouldshut down, and you can see the walls.
And they're hard tosee because it's steep.
It is so steep, yes.
I mean, it was really kind of funny,people were, as I was walking up, because,
(12:40):
you know, you can't, you park at thebottom or you park at the top, you don't
park in the historic center at all.
Yeah, yeah.
They actually have railings likeyou would for a staircase, and I
saw people with walking sticks andI was like, "Okay, I hope I'm up for
this challenge." But it's doable.
You know, just take it slow and it'stotally fine, it is well worth the climb.
(13:02):
The views and vistas are gorgeous,there are just charming shops
and galleries everywhere.
There's a museum there called MuséeAndré Breton, which is a museum of
surrealism, both in art and in literature.
And so, unfortunately, the day I wasthere, they were doing a changeover
(13:22):
of installation so it was closed, butanyway, now I have an excuse to return.
That's right, yes, AndréBreton played a big part in
the development of the village.
A lot of these medieval villageswere kind of abandoned when French
people went in search for more modernthings, a more modern way of life.
And André Breton was a poet and awriter and an author, and he went there
(13:48):
once, and he was just gobsmacked by howbeautiful it was, and decided that that's
where he wanted to spend his summers.
And because he was there, he attracteda lot of other artists and it attracted
a lot of interest in the area.
And so, yeah, André Breton played a bigpart, but it is a very small museum,
(14:11):
it's not open all the time, so sometimesyou can see it, sometimes you cannot.
The other things that I did inthat region in the Lot department,
were really largely centered aroundCahors, which is a lovely town.
It's to my understanding, it's thelargest city, town, in the Lot department.
And the historic center andthe market are gorgeous.
(14:31):
There is a fantastic church there,cathedral, with the most enchanting
cloisters, a walled-in garden thatyou really absolutely should visit.
There's the iconic bridge therethat a little tip is that there are
wine tastings pretty much adjacentto the bridge in a couple of
spots, so I took advantage of that.
(14:52):
Also, my host, Anna told me thatthe tourism office actually does
wine tasting as well, so, you know,that elevated the France to the
greatest country on the planet.
If I had any doubt, that confirmed it.
Right, so it's funny because yes,you can taste wine, and it's Malbec,
in this area is the major grape.
(15:13):
It's a big flavored red.
But there's still lots of differences inflavor between the different productions.
So if you try one and you don't like it,don't give up just yet, try another one.
Because I had customers, since I do daytrips to this area, I had customers who
were not at all impressed by the firstone we tried, but I said, "Well, let's
try another one." And they loved thesecond one and bought several bottles.
(15:36):
It just depends on whatyour preferences are.
Absolutely.
Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, a person could easilyspend a good week or more, I
think just in that department.
My one regret is, I just didn'thave enough time, I think,
to see everything everywhere.
Yeah.
But after a few days in the Lotdepartment, I moved on to the Dordogne,
(15:57):
and my home base was in Sarlat,which is absolutely enchanting.
It is such a beautiful,beautiful, beautiful place.
I know that, you know, lots of listenersto the podcast I've seen in the Facebook
group, you know, have been there, andthey, I think share my affection for it.
I found the most wonderfulAirbnb, I really think it's the
(16:17):
best Airbnb I've ever stayed in,right in the historic center.
It's in a early Renaissance building,and you know, has been just very
thoughtfully modernized, while stillretaining all of the character.
It was only up one flight of stairs, ithad air conditioning and, you know, just
beautifully decorated, very comfortable,and very, very central, just half a block
(16:41):
away from the beginning of all the shopsand the markets, but still, I could,
you know, easily within a five-minutewalk get to a free public parking place.
Ah, that's what I was going to ask.
Where did you park?
Yeah, because in Sarlat, the problem isthe parking, but you found places to park.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah, there was a free lot, maybe abouta five-minute walk, but then just one
(17:03):
block up, there were a meter or, youknow, pay station parkings where, you
know, when I was loading, unloadingmy car, bringing my luggage in, I just
parked there, and it was fantastic.
Yeah, that worked really, my host wasso fantastic in giving me very detailed
information about all of that, so...
Right.
So this B&B is called Le Rousseau?
(17:25):
Yes.
Rousseau like the author?
Yes.
And, I will try to link to it.
The Airbnb is... I don't typicallylink to Airbnbs because it changes
all the time, and so they're going toshow it if it's available, but they
won't show it the next day or whatever.
It's called Le Rousseau,if you want to find it.
Yeah, highly, highly recommend it.
I definitely want to go back there.
(17:47):
That first day in Sarlat, I justkind of wanted to explore the city.
It's so beautiful.
There's so many winding medieval streetsloaded with markets and galleries
and charming shops and all of that.
So I spent a fair amount of timejust, you know, wandering around.
I went to the covered market.
(18:07):
There's a really interesting small museum.
It's called Le Manoir de Gisson,and it is early Renaissance mansion,
like a bourgeois mansion that hashistoric furniture, period furniture.
You know, it's a small museum, it'ssomething you can see in about an hour,
but it's beautiful, it's fascinating.
(18:27):
It's not anything I have accessto in my life here in Los
Angeles, you know, super fun.
And they also... One of, I think one ofthe things that was really remarkable to
me is that in the kitchen, the sink andthe stove are original Renaissance items.
So, you know, in talking about reallygaining an understanding of how people
(18:47):
lived, I mean, I think kitchens give youthat window more than a lot of things.
Well, that's good to know.
We can... I have not been to that museum.
When I go to Sarlat, there's so much todo just walking around, looking around.
I never went to the museum.
I should really do it.
I should do it.
It is charming, and I think thatthere's so much to see, there are
other museums I didn't get to at all.
(19:08):
And there's, you know, thewonderful 11th, I think it's
11th-century cathedral right there.
One of my greatest memories of thetrip was opening my front windows in
my apartment, and all you could hearwere the 11th-century cathedral bells
chiming and birds singing, and that'skind of an eternal, timeless soundscape
that, again, I don't really get to takeadvantage of much here in Los Angeles.
(19:31):
Yeah, very different fromwhat your day-to-day life is.
That's great.
Yep, it's a lovely, lovely city, andit's also really well-situated to
explore other areas within the Dordogne.
So after a good night sleep, I, the nextday was planning on going to the Abri
de la Madeleine that we talked about.
(19:52):
But it's kind of like almost avillage carved into troglodyte
cliffside caves, with cathedralsand all of that sort of thing.
But I don't know if I was still a little,like, leg sore from Saint-Cirq-Lapopie,
but I kind of, I really wanted aless intensive rugged climbing day.
And so, I went to a Renaissancechateau and gardens called Losse,
(20:14):
L-O-S-S-E Chateau and Gardens, andit just... It was absolutely lovely.
It was small, I think that when Ifirst arrived, I was maybe one of
five people there, and it's just alovely Renaissance chateau out in
the countryside, on the banks of ariver, again, with period furnishings.
It has formal gardens butalso woodland gardens.
(20:37):
There was a lovely cafe.
So I went and, you know,spent a couple hours there.
It was, just, I think, exactlywhat the doctor ordered.
And after that, I was thinking aboutgoing to Lascaux Painted Caves, and I
drove over to Montignac, but then whenI got there, I saw what a charming
village it was, and there was avide-grenier going on, which seemed to
(20:59):
be like a community garage sale or...
Yeah.
... thrift market, and it just was vast.
And I thought, "Well, I'm not goingto pass this by." I love- ... French
and so I just, you know, spent a goodamount of time wandering around in that.
They also had a really interesting artisanmarket, you know, with jewelry, just
things that local craftspeople made thatis housed in a converted church as well.
(21:24):
And just, you know, lots of interestingshops, I picked up... You know,
walnuts are so big there that Ipicked up some walnut liqueur, and
it's just... it's absolutely lovely.
Did not make it to Lascaux,so that means I have another
excuse to return to the region.
Yeah, Montignac is alovely little town, really.
If people don't find accommodationsin Sarlat, I think it's good
(21:48):
to also stay in Montignac.
It's a cute town.
It really is.
And Lascaux, well, yeah, you'regoing to have to go back.
You hadn't bought your tickets in advance?
No.
Okay.
Yeah.
I bought Pech Merle in advance.
That was the one that I was, youknow, somehow really spoke to me.
But yeah, I think I also anticipatedLascaux to be a little bit more
(22:09):
crowded, and perhaps more tourists.
And so...
It usually is, yes.
Yeah.
I just, kind of, really was more lookingfor a little bit more off the beaten
track experience in this trip, you know,where I could really practice my French
and read the museum signs in French.
And not, you know, just have it, haveEnglish be such a default as well.
So it's interesting because the Chateaude Losse, which you just mentioned
(22:33):
earlier, I have driven past it manytimes but I have never stopped.
Because the reality is I'm alwaysgoing somewhere and you see so many
things of interest along the waythat you, sometimes you don't stop.
In the Dordogne you can totally justdrive around and see what you happen upon.
There are so many chateaus, so manythings to visit that you could do that
(22:53):
in the Dordogne, if you wanted to.
Absolutely.
I know, there's just like, as Isaid, an embarrassment of riches.
It's so, it's lovely.
Lovely.
Another thing that I loved, thiswas a real high point for me of
the Dordogne and the trip really,was going to Chateau des Milandes.
Josephine Baker, youknow, she is such a hero.
I mean, in addition to her greatcontributions to the arts, her
(23:17):
contributions as a civil rights leaderand as a war hero are extraordinary.
And if anybody has not listenedto the podcast that you and Elyse
did on Josephine Baker, please do.
And so the chateau itself is justfascinating, there are exhibitions
that cover all of these things.
You know, her work during the resistancein World War II, her contributions to
(23:40):
the American Civil Rights movement.
Her career as an artist.
There are also lots ofother things to enjoy.
The gardens are breathtaking,there are animals everywhere.
There are multiple aviaries, includingone that houses birds of prey that
they use in falconry exhibitionsthat take place throughout the day.
(24:02):
There are aviaries with peacocks andparrots that you can actually enter into.
There are sanctuaries with baby goats.
I mean, it's just...
Yes.
If you're an animal lover, you canspend a fair amount of time there.
Yeah, you will enjoy it.
And the bird shows are good.
I like them.
When I go I try to stay for thebird show because I enjoy it.
(24:23):
Yes, I did as well.
It was really interesting.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
And there's a little cafe thereas well that's quite pleasant.
Very pleasant.
I think I had discovered the great,another genius French invention,
the Cafe Gourmand, there as well.
But I had it with tea.
But, you know, for those whodon't know, it's coffee or tea
(24:44):
with a bunch of little desserts.
So you get to sample a bunch of stuff, so.
Yeah, beautiful place.
I definitely highly recommend thatyou go to the Chateau des Milandes
because it's open year round I think.
And it is just beautifuland very, very interesting.
So yeah, a great recommendation.
Yes, absolutely.
(25:05):
also, let's see, the other reallyexciting thing that I did when I was
in the Dordogne is I went to Beynac.
I went to the Chateau de Beynac, whichis... it's impossible to really pick
one chateau to go to in that region,you know, if you're there for a day.
And I was kind of debatingbetween that one and, oh gosh,
is it Castelnau de la Chapelle?
Yeah, Castelnau de la Chapelle, yep.
(25:27):
They're the two that arelike, ah, they're both great.
Exactly.
But I decided to go with the Frenchone because isn't Castelnau de la
Chapelle has more of an English history?
Or maybe I'm missing...
Oh, maybe it does.
I don't remember that.
Yeah.
So I went to that.
It has so many connections with veryimportant era of French history,
with Richard the Lionhearted.
(25:49):
The views are extraordinary.
I mean, it's just so,so, so well presented.
The village itself is absolutely charming.
I think I've heard that it was the villagewhere the film Chocolat was filmed.
Oh, perhaps.
It's just, you know, just crazypicturesque, charming, adorable.
And went as, I went on a flat bottomboat tour, one of the gabar tours,
(26:13):
down the Dordogne, from Beynac,which was just, you know, wonderful.
I mean, you spend an hour lookingfrom one riverside chateau to the
next, you know, getting a narrative.
You can't go wrong.
Yeah.
Those little boat tours alongthe Dordogne are really fun.
They're just really pleasant.
I don't know.
(26:33):
I've never taken one that I thought, "Oh,that was a rip-off." You know, I like it.
And in Beynac you canalso do hot air balloons.
There's a bunch of things.
I'll try and list a few in the show notes.
But there's a bunch of more, like,daredevil, you know... Yeah, I can imagine
you would never go on a hot air balloon.
(26:54):
Neither would I.
No, no, no, no.
A sea level floating downthe river, that's... I agree.
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.
It's very pleasant.
It is so no pressure.
It's just, you know,everything was easy about it.
Easy to park, you just,you know, get on the boat.
You can choose to have anEnglish translation of the tour.
I, by that point in time,didn't feel like I needed one.
(27:14):
But, I mean, it just was a verylow pressure, real day, you know?
Wonderful.
Yeah.
I had a wonderful time.
Yeah, so that, I think, thoseare the highlights of my time
in the Lot and the Dordogne.
Did you ever make it to any ofthe Abris or Abri de la Madeleine
or, or... No, you didn't?
Okay.
(27:34):
Next trip.
So next time, next time.
Yeah, because in the Dordogne,really, you have chateaus, you have
things you can do on the river,either canoe or take a boat ride.
You have the abris,which are the shelters.
You have the prehistoric caves, andyou have several of each, so you have
to pick which one you're going to see.
(27:56):
But the abris are definitely a bigdeal, because you get to see how
early, you know, people a long,long time ago, how they lived.
And I know in some ways, we are justtrying to recreate, we don't have a lot
of written evidence, but the archeologistsare pretty good at looking for evidence
(28:17):
and finding, you know, little things.
It's much easier thanprehistorical paintings.
You know, the abris are...we know more about those.
Well, another excuse to go back, for sure.
So, from Sarlat then I, you know,spent a lot of time in village,
a more rural life in France.
So, I moved on to city life inToulouse, which is rightfully been
(28:39):
named the best vacation destination,as you said, by Lonely Planet.
I absolutely fell in love with this city.
I don't... You know, it's just the...yes, it has extraordinary markets.
It has wonderful, wonderful museums.
It's beautiful.
The historic center is charming.
I don't know, there's just like alightness and a joy and a happiness
(29:02):
to the place that you just, you cannothelp but pick up on when you're there.
It absolutely charmed me.
Yeah, and it's easy life.
I mean, life in Toulouse is pretty,it's not crazy fast, but it... You can
tell it's a city with plenty of work.
So, you know, people canmake a good living here.
(29:22):
They don't particularly struggle withany of the, you know, terrible weather
or hurricanes or whatever it is.
And so it's, you know,it's- it's a good life.
We have good wine, good food.
We have a lovely accent.
There's another podcast that I listento on life in France, I think that
(29:44):
they just, they reported on somesurvey where they said that French
people view the Toulouse accent as themost alluring of all French accents.
So...
I'm not surprised.
And it's really funny because Idon't think of myself as having
an accent, but I really do.
When I speak French, oh... I havesuch a strong Toulouse accent.
I can't help it.
(30:05):
When I was younger, I worked againstit, but now I don't even care.
"Ah, that's how I talk. That's it."
Well, I think most people probablywould say it's a bonus for
you, then, to have that accent.
Yes.
Thank you.
It's such a lovely city, and I stayedin the most wonderful apartment.
A couple bought a townhouse you know,an older townhouse, probably not
(30:27):
really old by France standards, butcertainly by my standards, and converted
it into, oh, maybe 10 or so guestapartments, and they just were lovely.
You know, all of them had privateterraces, super comfortable
beds, great air conditioning,beautiful modern kitchens.
The hosts were as lovely as possible, youknow, leaving snacks and goodies for you.
(30:49):
And yeah, it was just a delight.
It was in the Les Carmes neighborhood.
Am I pronouncing that correctly?
Les Carmes, yeah, yeah.
And it was called Le Clos des Salins.
So La Place des Salins is abig plaza, I assume you entered
through The Place des Salins.
There was a little very narrowlittle street around the place and,
you know, just wind around that fora few minutes and you enter behind
(31:12):
big metal, ornamental gates intoa beautiful courtyard absolutely
loaded with geraniums and... Yeah.
And there were allthese lovely apartments.
One day I will be able to make mywork schedule work to go to the boot
camp and I will absolutely stay there.
Well, that's a good recommendation forpeople who are coming to the boot camp.
Le Clos des Salins, I'll putthe link in the show notes.
(31:33):
Oh, good.
You know, one thing, I found all ofthe accommodations in the Southwest
wonderful, but also extremely affordable.
Very, very well priced.
So, it leaves you more money to spendon the local wine and, you know,
walnuts and- ... yeah, whatever,truffles and all the other specialties.
Whatever tickles your fancy.
(31:54):
Exactly.
So the first thing that I did in Toulouse,was Elyse's walking tour, VoiceMap
walking tour, which was... It's such awonderful way to give you the lay of the
land, to give you, you know, a real richunderstanding of the city right away so
that then, you know, as you spend thenext few days exploring, you already
(32:15):
have a pretty strong base of knowledgeabout the layout, the history, and high
points that would be of interest to you.
So, you know, based on that, I spenta fair amount of time in markets.
The covered market in Les Carmes, Iwent to that pretty much every day.
I also went to the Victor Hugo market,which was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
(32:38):
And then you had given me a recommendationof your favorite cheese shop right around
the corner from there, so I went thereand had loads of fun talking with the
people in the store, the salespersons,or the cheese experts, really.
Xavier.
Xavier.
(32:59):
Xavier.
Yeah.
An excellent cheese shop rightby the Victor Hugo Market.
Yes.
They did not steer me wrong inselecting my cheese plate and
one thing I did learn about theSouthwest, not only is chocolatine,
chocolatine and not a pain au chocolat,
instead of asking if I want a sac at theend, they asked me if I wanted a poche-
(33:22):
Une poche.
Vous voulez une poche?
I know, I mean, that was the fun part,I think, of just really, you know,
kind of jumping in and using my veryintermediate French was, I had to, like,
"Okay, what do you mean by that? Is thisactually, you know, what you call a sac
here?" We had some real good laughs.
The guys there were really fun.
Yep.
That's how we say it.
Sac, une poche.
(33:45):
It was a lot of fun.
And what else?
There are some really greatmuseums as well in Toulouse.
I went to the Musée de la Résistance,which is, you know, very much about the
Resistance during World War II in France.
They have a very touching, movingexhibition on that as well, but then
they also had a temporary exhibitionon the rise of fascism in Spain with
(34:08):
Franco, which, you know, was really,really, really well presented.
Let me see.
I went also to... Oh, this is agood one, the Fondation Bamberg.
Fondation Bamberg.
Yeah, they're... Andthey are now reopened.
They were closed for awhile, but they're reopened.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a beautiful museum.
(34:28):
I'm hoping I'm remembering right, I thinkit's in a Renaissance building, like a big
Renaissance mansion around a courtyard.
It's absolutely gorgeous.
I mean, even if you don't go into see the collection, I'd highly
recommend just going to look at thebuilding and the architecture itself.
It's gorgeous.
Yeah, the courtyard is fabulous.
Elyse gives a very, very goodin-person Renaissance tour.
(34:51):
She's threatened to do iton VoiceMap a few times.
Hasn't done it yet.
I got to shake her down.
Please do it.
Shake her down and get thatproduced before I return.
Yeah, but it's got a wonderfulcollection of, you know, art from
the Renaissance through the 18thcentury, a lot of, you know, the
old masters and that sort of thing.
It was absolutely delightful.
(35:12):
There are also somereally great cathedrals.
I think it was Cathédrale Saint-Etienne.
Yep.
Saint-Etienne.
Yep.
Beautiful and stunning.
One place also that I don't really... I'mnot sure if it's really used entirely as
a church, but the Couvent des Jacobins.
Yeah.
That was really interesting because,yes, it's this extraordinarily,
(35:34):
architecturally beautiful space,but they have installed you know,
kind of like a modern art exhibitionwith light and with soundscapes.
And I think that they installed thatto guide people into experiencing the
cathedral in, like, a more sensory way.
Yep.
And it was really fascinating,especially the sound component.
(35:56):
Yeah, it's not a church anymore.
It hasn't been a churchfor a very, very long time.
It stands out because it'sa place for performances.
The cloister is absolutely beautiful.
They often have temporary exhibitsthat come through and Saint
Thomas of Aquinas is buried there.
So, his casket is there.
(36:16):
Yeah.
Yes, as I recall, the Saint Thomas ofAquinas casket is pretty front and center.
It's a very large monument,very accessible if people are
interested in visiting that.
Absolutely.
So I could probably, you know, justwax poetic about Toulouse forever
but- ... I know that time is limited.
So, after Toulouse I headed up toBordeaux, and spent a couple of days
(36:40):
there as well, which is also a fascinatingcity, the historic center and, all of the
great monumental buildings are stunning.
I think the high point of Bordeaux forme was going to the Cité du Vin museum.
You could spend a day there.
It is absolutely fascinating.
Have you been, Annie?
Yep, I have.
It's lovely.
(37:00):
One of my favorite museums.
Yep.
And it's such an education.
I mean, it really gives you a deep diveinto, I think, every varietal of French
grape and all of the wines that stemfrom it, you know, an understanding
of how the terroir and the regionimpacts the development of the wine.
It was super fun.
They have certain stations wherethey even, like, puff aromas at
(37:22):
you so that you can, you know,have a better understanding of it.
It culminates in a glass of wine at thetop of the building in their tasting room.
It was just absolutely lovely.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's a beautiful museum.
And Bordeaux is a differentcity from Toulouse.
I mean, it has a different feel to it.
Very.
It's also very nice.
Some people prefer Bordeaux, somepeople prefer Toulouse, but they're
(37:46):
both worth visiting, I think.
Absolutely.
I mean, I loved Bordeaux, absolutely.
I mean, full disclosure,I think I'm team Toulouse.
But Bordeaux isabsolutely, it's wonderful.
And I do wish, I would have had moretime to spend there, because when you're
only in a place for two or three days,you only get the top level, you know?
(38:06):
Sure.
And there, there were so many museumsI would have loved to have seen, and
also, I would have loved to, to go,have gone out into, you know, some
of the vineyards outside of the city.
Oh, oh, also, there's a wonderfulcovered market in Bordeaux,
the Marché des Capucins.
Uh-huh.
I can't go to a citywithout seeking out markets.
That's just...
Yeah, you like the markets.
(38:28):
That's great.
And one really interesting thing overallabout this trip and the markets was,
I was there in the summer during bothrounds of voting for the snap elections,
and I discovered that the French way ofpolitical advertising is very different
than the American way, in that, in themarkets or by subway stations, there
(38:49):
would just be you know, volunteers orcampaign workers handing out brochures,
trying to engage in conversations, ratherthan doing big, you know, ad campaigns
and that sort of thing like we do here.
And so, because I was really strivingto work on my French, I got to engage in
a lot of, you know, conversations withpeople, just about current affairs in
France, and they had great interest inwhat was going on in the United States.
(39:12):
And then, you know, a big pivotalelection had just happened in England.
So, you know, I was really able toengage as best I could with my French,
or, you know, lapsing into Franglais.
You know, conversationsjust about global affairs.
Yeah, they must have loved youbecause most of us French people
run away from these people.
But you want to actually talk to them.
That's great.
I'm that dorky tourist, for sure.
(39:34):
No, that's great.
That's great.
Yeah, I mean, honestly,we should talk to them.
They probably have good points to make.
But most people know howthey're going to vote.
Like, you know... But whatever.
We're not here to discuss politics.
But it is quite different, there aren't...I don't think there's- well, I don't
watch French TV, so what do I know?
It's not that I never watch French TV.
I rarely watch French TV.
(39:55):
So I don't- it's not like I haveit on in the background, so do
we have political ads on TV?
I don't think we do.
I don't think we do.
No.
I watched a fair amount of,you know, French television.
Or not watched, I had it on in myapartment just because I'm always trying
to get my ear trained to hear French.
I don't recall any, and thatwas during, you know, kind
(40:16):
of a- a very political time.
So...
Very, very, yeah.
I think you're right.
Yeah, I think we don't have any.
Yeah.
So what did you learnabout France on this trip?
Are there things that were new to youthat you hadn't discovered before?
You know, things that were new to me... Imean, I love walnuts, and I learned that
walnuts are elevated in the Southwest.
(40:38):
I mean, the food everywhere inFrance is delicious, but when
you go to a different region, youget to discover different things.
The chocolate-covered walnuts are great.
I came home with kilos of walnuts,vacuum-packed, walnut oils.
I hope my sisters won't be listeningto this, because I did bring back
walnut oil for both of them that Idecided I needed to keep for myself.
(40:58):
Walnut liqueur.
I mean, it's justmind-blowingly delicious.
There were also... I love floralflavors, and in Toulouse especially,
I think violet is a big thing there.
So, I found an extraordinary pastry,the Toulouse version of the Paris-Brest,
which I think they called it aToulouse-Brest, which was the same thing
(41:19):
as the Paris-Brest, but instead of thehazelnut crème pâtissière, it has violet.
Which was mind-blowinglydelicious in my opinion.
You know, I had violet ice cream.
It was... I learned lotsof things like that.
I think in traveling, you also kind oflearn a lot about your own resilience.
I like to travel alone, and so, youknow, it's just me figuring things out.
(41:43):
On the first few days of my trip,there was this global cell phone
outage, and so my Google Maps on myphone or my Apple Play didn't work.
That's just what you useare the maps on your phone.
And I hadn't figured out a plan B,and so I figured out how to navigate
through Cahors and the countryside inthe Lot without, you know, Apple Maps.
(42:05):
Huh.
In the car, it wasn't so bad becausethere was kind of a rudimentary GPS,
but once I was in, you know, a villageoutside of the car, I would even do
things like, all right, if I want toget to this restaurant from the car,
map it out in the car, and then take aphoto of it on my phone to follow that.
So you figure out, youknow, parts of yourself.
(42:26):
Also, as we brought up earlier,I'm terrified of heights.
And so Saint-Cirq-Lapopieis a very steep place.
So, this is kind of teaching meabout resilience and how much, you
know, if you just don't freak outand figure it out, you're fine.
Don't let fears get inyour way of anything.
So I'm leaving, driving down thatvery, very steep street, and some
guy on a motorcycle is driving up,and he's yelling at me in French.
(42:51):
And he was saying, Ithink it was recueillait.
And I was like, "What is thatword? I don't know what the..."
Reculez.
Reculez.
And I didn't know what that word was,so I was trying to, you know, down,
window down, trying to explain to him,"I'm learning French." And, you know,
anyway, he just then yelled at me (43:05):
le bus!
Le bus!"
And so then I looked up and rightbehind him was this gigantic bus.
And so in spite of the fear of heights,backed up the side of a, you know,
pretty sheer drop-off, and I survived it.
I did not panic.
And I think that I learned thingslike that about myself that, "You
(43:26):
know what? You got this." You know?
So, this is funny that you had arun-in with this guy, because I've
had a run-in with this guy as well,both when we went with a tour,
because I wanted people to get offwhere he didn't want us to get off.
So, we discussed, because he's just amunicipal employee, and another time, I
think I was trying to pick up somebody ona private tour also on that roundabout,
(43:49):
and he did not want me to stop.
Not even for a second.
But there was nobody elsecoming, so I just ignored him.
But he is very insistent.
He is very ... scary.
Not really wanting to engage and,"Can you say that in a different way
and more in simpler, slower French?"
Yeah, no.
It all worked out.
And you know what?
I love that sort of thing because itreally, it's a great travel story.
(44:12):
When I came home and told my sisters,they thought that was hilarious.
Some guy yelling at you, youdon't know what he wants.
Yeah, exactly, and you know what?
I figured out how to back up the sideof a cliff without freaking out, so...
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the rule in France is, if there'sa bus coming, it's the smallest
vehicle that needs to back out.
So, you know, he was telling you right.
(44:32):
You were supposed to back out.
That's how it works.
Wow.
Okay.
Well, we've been talking a longtime already, but it sounds
like you had a wonderful time.
It sounds like you made themost of a wonderful two weeks.
Was it two weeks?
Three weeks?
It was two weeks.
You made the most of it.
(44:52):
You were by yourself, but I don't thinkyou ever cared one way or the other.
You were quite happy.
I am very happy to be able to bein a fascinating, beautiful place
like France, do exactly what I want,when I want, and be entirely in my
head when I'm looking at, you know,extraordinary art or just, you know,
awe-inspiring historical monuments.
(45:13):
That's my happy place, for sure.
People were so nice and so willingand happy to chat with me and
engage in conversations in French.
It was fantastic.
I think my only regret is, Ididn't, you know, there are so many
things to see that I didn't get to.
I think even this summer, I'mkind of contemplating a return
to Toulouse and then spread outalong the south, maybe toward Nice.
(45:36):
For example, I've learned through thepodcast there's a Goya museum in Castres
that I really wanted to get to, but Ididn't want to take a day away from my
beloved Toulouse in order to do that.
So, you know, I think I'vealso learned that it's never
enough time in the Southwest.
Yeah.
And the Southwest is lotsto do, lots to do, so...
Thank you so much, Dawn.
You've been a delight to talk to.
(45:57):
You've shared some great stuff,and it was wonderful, you know, I
was right at home in the Southwest.
It's fantastic.
Well, thank you so muchfor the podcast, Annie.
You have inspired not only thistrip, but, you know, so many other
fantastic wanderings in France inthe past that I've done, that I'm
confident I will take in the future.
So, you and Elyse are treasures.
(46:19):
Thank you for all you do.
And thank you for yoursupport over the years.
Very, very appreciated.
Merci beaucoup.
Merci, Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Once again, a big thank youto my wonderful patrons.
Your support makes this podcastpossible week after week.
(46:43):
I am pre-recording a few episodesright now, so no new shout-outs
today, but I have not forgotten you.
Every single patron helps keep thelights on at Join Us in France.
If you've been enjoying theshow and want to give back,
consider joining us on Patreon.
It starts at just $3 a month, and you'llget access to exclusive rewards and
(47:04):
ad-free episodes as soon as they're ready.
Visit patreon.com/joinus to learn more.
And if you're already apatron, merci, merci, merci.
You're the reason this show keeps going.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
(47:30):
Like I said before, I'm recordingahead this week, so I don't have any
new VoiceMap reviews to share, butif you're curious about what other
listeners think of my VoiceMap tours,head over to joinusinfrance.com/vmr.
That stands for VoiceMap Reviews.
You'll find lots of feedback fromfellow travelers who've walked the
(47:51):
streets of Paris with me in their ears.
Maybe your review willbe the next one I read.
Podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours on my website.
It's best for me as well because I getto keep more of what you pay instead
of giving it to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, it'sa manual process, so don't expect it
(48:11):
to be instant like it would be if youwere buying directly from the app.
But most of you listening plan theirtrips at least a few days in advance,
some of you it's a lot longer thanthat, so you're probably not in a rush.
To use your code, open VoiceMap,tap Tour Codes at the bottom right,
enter the code, and download tour.
(48:31):
You own it forever.
Even if you change phones, just log intoyour VoiceMap account to access it again.
The tours work without data becausethe audio, images, and maps are
downloaded to your phone, and GPS worksanywhere, even without cell service.
Best of all, you can listen invirtual playback from anywhere
(48:52):
in the world, perfect if Parisis not in your immediate plans.
Take me in your pocket with VoiceMap.
If you're planning a trip to Franceand want expert help, you can hire
me as your itinerary consultant.
It's a busy season, so book earlyat joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Usually I have openings within amonth, but right now it's more like
(49:14):
two or three months out, so don't wait.
Let's talk about the hidden messagesin the obelisk at Place de la Concorde.
This is something fun anda little bit mysterious.
The obelisk at the Place dela Concorde, you've seen it.
It's that great, tall granite, pinkgranite, kind of, monument from Luxor.
(49:37):
It's covered in hieroglyphics rightin the middle of Paris traffic.
It's been there since 1836.
But guess what?
Turns out it still hasa few secrets to share.
A French Egyptologist namedJean-Guillaume Olette-Pelletier, what
a great French name, just revealedthat he's cracked seven hidden coded
(50:00):
messages carved into the stone.
He spent over four years workingon this discovery, and it all
started during the COVID lockdowns.
He lived nearby and would walkover to the obelisk during
his allowed one-hour outings.
One day, something in the carvingslooked off, so he came back the next
(50:21):
day with binoculars and a notebook.
Yes, really.
That's when he noticed what he nowcalls cryptographic hieroglyphs, symbols
carefully disguised inside regular scenes.
Later, during the restoration of theobelisk ahead of the Paris Olympics,
he got access to the scaffolding.
(50:41):
He was able to get close enoughto confirm what he suspected, the
carvings included secret messages.
What do these messages say?
Eh, it's all about Ramesses II.
According to Olette-Pelletier, theywere ancient propaganda meant to show
that Ramesses was of divine origin.
One coded phrase, for example,combines symbols to say, "Soothe
(51:04):
the vital force of the god Amun."
And that's a powerful political messagewhen you're trying to convince your
elites that your power comes straightfrom the gods, and probably that you're
the only one who can save everybody.
That's what they all do, isn't it?
These messages were carved in a veryspecific spot on the side of the
(51:25):
obelisk that would have faced the Nile,where Egypt's nobles could see it.
These weren't meant for theaverage person on the street.
This was elite messaging designedto reinforce Ramesses' authority.
And here's the kicker, not allEgyptologists agree with this
interpretation, of course, itwouldn't be any fun if they all did.
(51:48):
The idea of hidden codes in hieroglyphsis still debated in academic circles,
but Olette-Pelletier stands by hisresearch and he'll be publishing the full
results in a specialized journal soon.
So next time you walk by thePlace de la Concorde, maybe take
a closer look at the obelisk.
(52:08):
Who knows what else is hiding there?
You could try with binoculars,but stay away from Paris traffic.
Either that or let theexperts do the decoding.
My thanks to podcast editors Anneand Christian Cotovan, who produced
the transcripts and the audio.
Join us next week on Join Us in Franceas we dive into the unforgettable journey
(52:30):
of Linda and Scott Rogers in France.
From the bustling streets of Paris tothe tranquil beauty of Annecy and the
excitement of the Paris Olympic Games,Linda and Scott share their adventures,
travel tips, and cultural insights.
Hear all about their journey,challenges, and the magic of
experiencing France like a local.
(52:52):
Don't miss that one.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
(53:14):
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode545, cinq cent quarante-cinq.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withDawn Fairchild about her unforgettable
(00:36):
solo adventure in the Southwest of France.
From exploring medieval villagesto indulging in local delicacies,
Dawn's insights and experienceswill inspire your next trip.
Listen in for our travel tips,hidden gems, and a joyous account
of French culture and hospitality.
This podcast exists thanks tolisteners who support my work.
(00:59):
Some book itinerary consults,others buy my GPS self-guided
tours on the VoiceMap app.
Some become patrons or book aday trip with me in the Southwest
of France in my electric car.
You'll find all of that atjoinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And if you want the podcast ad-freeas soon as it's ready, join us on
(01:20):
Patreon for as little as $3 a month.
The link for that is in the show notes.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Dawn today,
I'll discuss hidden messages in theobelisk at the Place de la Concorde.
Hmm.
How mysterious!
You can see all the links to theplaces we discuss and read the
(01:40):
full transcript on the episode pageat joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
Bonjour, Dawn Fairchild, andwelcome to Join Us in France.
Hi, Annie.
(02:01):
It's a pleasure to be here,thank you for having me.
Oh, it's... you're goingto be right in my alley.
We're going to talk about yourtrip in the Southwest of France,
so I'm going to feel right at home.
When did this trip take place?
Started at the end of June 2024.
And it was a four-week trip but twoweeks of it were in the Southwest
(02:23):
of France before I headed up tothe UK for a couple of weeks.
Wonderful.
So was this your first time in theSouthwest, or had you visited before?
I've been to France a lot oftimes but I have never been to the
Southwest, and I was, you know, Ihave to say I've been very inspired
by the podcast, and especially theboot camp to visit that area, the
(02:44):
boot camp that you host annually.
Through listening to the podcast I'velearned what a incredibly rich region
of France that is as far as, you know,history, you've got an extraordinary
pre-historic relics, you have renaissancehistory, a vast amount of Medieval
history, there's extraordinary wineregions, it's breathtakingly gorgeous,
(03:07):
you know, everything that I wouldhear, through trip reports or in you
talking with Elyse on the podcastreally made me think, "I've got to go
there and do a deeper dive myself."
Well, thank you so much.
And to add to that, to yourwonderful description, now, a... oh,
what's the name of that magazine?
Now Lonely Planet has namedToulouse as the best destination
(03:29):
to go to in 2025, so woo-hoo.
Well, I think I'm going to have tomake a return trip in 2025 then.
Yes, yes.
So we had done an itinerary consult.
We've talked many times because you'realso a patron, so thank you for that.
You come to the Zooms and all that, soyou've gotten to ask all your questions.
(03:49):
Were you surprised by anything,besides how much you liked it?
Was I surprised by anything?
You may remember from our itineraryconsultation that I was a little
trepidatious because I'm terrified ofheights, and so everything was just
like, "Okay, is this going to scare me?"
And you were fantastic andfound photos of things so I
(04:10):
could kind of gauge all of that.
It's a lot less scary thanI envisioned it would be.
I was thinking, just big cliffs anddrop-offs and that sort of thing.
I mean, it's hills, absolutely, andsome didn't have a whole lot of space
or guardrails between me and the edge.
So I, I found it to be just incrediblyaccessible, but I think... I don't...
(04:32):
You know, France is so beautiful,but I was absolutely stunned at
how beautiful the region was.
You don't drive for 15 or 20 minuteswithout, you know, "Oh my gosh,
there is a chateau on the top ofthat hillside," or there are caves
built out through that cliff wall,or there is a river or a valley.
It is so just very rich anddiverse in what it has to offer.
(04:56):
And I think that surprised me, just,you know, it's almost the embarrassment
of riches, in the Southwest.
Yeah.
So let's talk about the placesyou went to specifically.
You rented a car, right,for part of this trip?
Yeah, I did.
I did.
For the entire time that I was in theLot department and in the Dordogne.
Mm-hmm.
(05:16):
So where all did you go?
Tell us about the namesof the places you went.
Okay.
Well, I started out my trip with kind ofa mini language immersion at a chambre
d'hote with an associated languageschool outside, right outside of Cahors,
like 10 minutes outside of Cahors.
And that is called Les Fraises.
What I really loved about this place isthat... Well, it was gorgeous, first off.
(05:42):
You know, it was a beautiful,beautiful chambre d'hote.
I had a lovely, lovely, lovely room witha private terrace overlooking the pool
and the valley and it was just gorgeous.
But they really let you customizeyour language learning based on your
own personal goals and travel type.
Some people might do, you know, likea week or two-week stay where they
(06:02):
live, in the house with the teachersand make meals together, and it's
just 24/7 of language learning.
You know, I was on vacation andkind of wanted to go a little
easier on myself than that.
And so, you know, I would interactwith the hosts over the most
beautiful breakfast, the hostsand the guests up on the terrace.
And they would provide consultationabout activities that I was planning
(06:25):
on doing that day, and it was reallykind of a mini tourism office.
They had every possible brochure.
And then, you know, I'd go off onmy own and explore, return in the
evenings, have a glass of wine.
One evening we went to alocal food festival that I
never would've known about.
You know, the host said, all we haveto do is bring cutlery and show up
(06:46):
and you get free local food, wine.
There was some local performers singingEdith Piaf covers with a portable mic,
and it was absolutely fantastic andI think- I mean, really gave me more
confidence right away at the beginningof my trip in my language abilities.
And so it just, I think, set me upto really dive in, in a way that
(07:06):
I haven't in past trips to France.
And also, I was going to a lotof really smaller villages where
people weren't necessarily goingto default to English either.
So that's where I started.
And I'll put a link to thisservice, to this school and,
I guess, lodgings as well.
They do both, right?
So is it like a home stay with them?
(07:28):
It can be, if that's what you choose.
Through their immersion program, I mean,they do have guest rooms within the
house where you cook dinner with thefamily, you engage all your waking hours.
They go on sightseeing trips with you.
You can do that or you can do what Ichose to do or somewhere in between,
and I chose to be in one of their, theyhave two guest accommodations that have
(07:52):
private entrances, they're absolutelylovely seating areas, big comfortable
bed, the biggest bathroom I've everhad in France, a private terrace.
And then you have access toa shared kitchen as well.
They have two of those and arebuilding out a guest apartment.
So you can really choose, you know,what you want the experience to be.
Yeah.
Or if you just want to stay there,enjoy the region, you don't even
(08:16):
have to do the language component.
But, you know, for me it was a great wayto, to start my trip to really kind of
delve into confidently speaking French.
Right, so were there any sit downclasses or was it mostly just
interacting with these people?
It's really interacting.
I think because it's so small, atmost they would have maybe three,
four people, and so they're reallyable to customize the experience and
(08:39):
balance their schedule so that they'renot going to have five people that
want the full on immersion, you know.
They were able to really balance, okay,few hours, morning, evening, with me,
with other learners throughout the day.
Hmm, very nice.
Yeah, and it's really interesting, theyvery much customize the conversation
and your learning plan based onyour own motivations and interests.
(09:03):
So I find that to be a reallyeffective way to learn.
Yes, and so this where you startedyour stay and then you... So you
had a car, so then you moved onto...
Well, while I was there, I did acouple of things in the region.
The first off was I went to the Grottede Pech-Merle, beautiful, extraordinary
pre-historic painted caves that youcan still actually go in with a guide.
(09:27):
And that was just... I mean, thesethings were... The paintings were
created as long ago as 29,000years by Cro-Magnon men and women.
I know that on the boot campyou take people to that.
And it is just extraordinary.
It's quite humbling.
Yeah, it's really fascinating to realizethat these were people just like us.
(09:49):
And I think it's too easy for us to think,"Oh, people in the past, they weren't like
me, they didn't have the same feelings.They didn't have the same needs."
But actually, they were.
They were humans just like us, andit's extraordinary that at a time
when there was no writing, and for avery long time, there was no writing.
(10:09):
That's why we know so littleabout these people is because they
didn't leave any written anything,but they left some pictures.
Absolutely.
And one of the things that I foundreally fascinating were some of the
pictures, there was a hand print bythem with an outline of paint, and the
guide was telling us that they would,you know, kind of like, blow out the
(10:33):
paint in their mouth around their hand.
And I mean, to me, that was, is this theirway of signing the work, of asserting, you
know, that I created this and I was there?
I thought it, you know, all thevery human inclinations just are
so apparent in visiting that place.
I'd highly, highly recommend it.
Right, right.
(10:53):
So there was, there were systems ofwriting but that's really basically
the reason why we don't know that much.
Until we get to a good standard ofwriting that we can still understand,
it's hard to know what they were thinking.
But we know for sure they were peoplejust like us and so it's always...
Yeah, I think Pech-Merle is abeautiful visit and not to be missed.
(11:14):
You do have to book it in advance.
In the summer months, it can fill out.
Their website is not super reliable,so if it says there are no tickets
left, give them a call because, ithappened to me, where the website
said full and it wasn't full at all.
It's just that... Well, it's complicated.
(11:34):
I'm not going to go into why itwas, they made the mistake, but
it was a mistake on their part.
So don't give up.
Do give them a call, look at thewebsite, but try to book this at
least a month in advance, is ideal.
Absolutely, very good advice.
Well, I was near Cahors as well.
I went to Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, whichis... I know you've done an episode
(11:55):
about it with Elyse on the podcast.
It's so beautiful.
People go to this place.
It's just magical.
There's the Château de Cardillac,am I butchering the pronunciation?
No, no, that's it.
Well, actually there were severalchâteaus, they went through, the
village went through several lords,and they each built their own place.
None of the châteaus are really, there'snot much left of them at this point.
(12:19):
But it's really interesting to seehow they lived, the sort of lifestyle
they had, the medieval stuff wherethey had to, you know, everybody came
into the walls at night, they wouldshut down, and you can see the walls.
And they're hard tosee because it's steep.
It is so steep, yes.
I mean, it was really kind of funny,people were, as I was walking up, because,
(12:40):
you know, you can't, you park at thebottom or you park at the top, you don't
park in the historic center at all.
Yeah, yeah.
They actually have railings likeyou would for a staircase, and I
saw people with walking sticks andI was like, "Okay, I hope I'm up for
this challenge." But it's doable.
You know, just take it slow and it'stotally fine, it is well worth the climb.
(13:02):
The views and vistas are gorgeous,there are just charming shops
and galleries everywhere.
There's a museum there called MuséeAndré Breton, which is a museum of
surrealism, both in art and in literature.
And so, unfortunately, the day I wasthere, they were doing a changeover
(13:22):
of installation so it was closed, butanyway, now I have an excuse to return.
That's right, yes, AndréBreton played a big part in
the development of the village.
A lot of these medieval villageswere kind of abandoned when French
people went in search for more modernthings, a more modern way of life.
And André Breton was a poet and awriter and an author, and he went there
(13:48):
once, and he was just gobsmacked by howbeautiful it was, and decided that that's
where he wanted to spend his summers.
And because he was there, he attracteda lot of other artists and it attracted
a lot of interest in the area.
And so, yeah, André Breton played a bigpart, but it is a very small museum,
(14:11):
it's not open all the time, so sometimesyou can see it, sometimes you cannot.
The other things that I did inthat region in the Lot department,
were really largely centered aroundCahors, which is a lovely town.
It's to my understanding, it's thelargest city, town, in the Lot department.
And the historic center andthe market are gorgeous.
(14:31):
There is a fantastic church there,cathedral, with the most enchanting
cloisters, a walled-in garden thatyou really absolutely should visit.
There's the iconic bridge therethat a little tip is that there are
wine tastings pretty much adjacentto the bridge in a couple of
spots, so I took advantage of that.
(14:52):
Also, my host, Anna told me thatthe tourism office actually does
wine tasting as well, so, you know,that elevated the France to the
greatest country on the planet.
If I had any doubt, that confirmed it.
Right, so it's funny because yes,you can taste wine, and it's Malbec,
in this area is the major grape.
(15:13):
It's a big flavored red.
But there's still lots of differences inflavor between the different productions.
So if you try one and you don't like it,don't give up just yet, try another one.
Because I had customers, since I do daytrips to this area, I had customers who
were not at all impressed by the firstone we tried, but I said, "Well, let's
try another one." And they loved thesecond one and bought several bottles.
(15:36):
It just depends on whatyour preferences are.
Absolutely.
Absolutely, yeah.
I mean, a person could easilyspend a good week or more, I
think just in that department.
My one regret is, I just didn'thave enough time, I think,
to see everything everywhere.
Yeah.
But after a few days in the Lotdepartment, I moved on to the Dordogne,
(15:57):
and my home base was in Sarlat,which is absolutely enchanting.
It is such a beautiful,beautiful, beautiful place.
I know that, you know, lots of listenersto the podcast I've seen in the Facebook
group, you know, have been there, andthey, I think share my affection for it.
I found the most wonderfulAirbnb, I really think it's the
(16:17):
best Airbnb I've ever stayed in,right in the historic center.
It's in a early Renaissance building,and you know, has been just very
thoughtfully modernized, while stillretaining all of the character.
It was only up one flight of stairs, ithad air conditioning and, you know, just
beautifully decorated, very comfortable,and very, very central, just half a block
(16:41):
away from the beginning of all the shopsand the markets, but still, I could,
you know, easily within a five-minutewalk get to a free public parking place.
Ah, that's what I was going to ask.
Where did you park?
Yeah, because in Sarlat, the problem isthe parking, but you found places to park.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Yeah, there was a free lot, maybe abouta five-minute walk, but then just one
(17:03):
block up, there were a meter or, youknow, pay station parkings where, you
know, when I was loading, unloadingmy car, bringing my luggage in, I just
parked there, and it was fantastic.
Yeah, that worked really, my host wasso fantastic in giving me very detailed
information about all of that, so...
Right.
So this B&B is called Le Rousseau?
(17:25):
Yes.
Rousseau like the author?
Yes.
And, I will try to link to it.
The Airbnb is... I don't typicallylink to Airbnbs because it changes
all the time, and so they're going toshow it if it's available, but they
won't show it the next day or whatever.
It's called Le Rousseau,if you want to find it.
Yeah, highly, highly recommend it.
I definitely want to go back there.
(17:47):
That first day in Sarlat, I justkind of wanted to explore the city.
It's so beautiful.
There's so many winding medieval streetsloaded with markets and galleries
and charming shops and all of that.
So I spent a fair amount of timejust, you know, wandering around.
I went to the covered market.
(18:07):
There's a really interesting small museum.
It's called Le Manoir de Gisson,and it is early Renaissance mansion,
like a bourgeois mansion that hashistoric furniture, period furniture.
You know, it's a small museum, it'ssomething you can see in about an hour,
but it's beautiful, it's fascinating.
(18:27):
It's not anything I have accessto in my life here in Los
Angeles, you know, super fun.
And they also... One of, I think one ofthe things that was really remarkable to
me is that in the kitchen, the sink andthe stove are original Renaissance items.
So, you know, in talking about reallygaining an understanding of how people
(18:47):
lived, I mean, I think kitchens give youthat window more than a lot of things.
Well, that's good to know.
We can... I have not been to that museum.
When I go to Sarlat, there's so much todo just walking around, looking around.
I never went to the museum.
I should really do it.
I should do it.
It is charming, and I think thatthere's so much to see, there are
other museums I didn't get to at all.
(19:08):
And there's, you know, thewonderful 11th, I think it's
11th-century cathedral right there.
One of my greatest memories of thetrip was opening my front windows in
my apartment, and all you could hearwere the 11th-century cathedral bells
chiming and birds singing, and that'skind of an eternal, timeless soundscape
that, again, I don't really get to takeadvantage of much here in Los Angeles.
(19:31):
Yeah, very different fromwhat your day-to-day life is.
That's great.
Yep, it's a lovely, lovely city, andit's also really well-situated to
explore other areas within the Dordogne.
So after a good night sleep, I, the nextday was planning on going to the Abri
de la Madeleine that we talked about.
(19:52):
But it's kind of like almost avillage carved into troglodyte
cliffside caves, with cathedralsand all of that sort of thing.
But I don't know if I was still a little,like, leg sore from Saint-Cirq-Lapopie,
but I kind of, I really wanted aless intensive rugged climbing day.
And so, I went to a Renaissancechateau and gardens called Losse,
(20:14):
L-O-S-S-E Chateau and Gardens, andit just... It was absolutely lovely.
It was small, I think that when Ifirst arrived, I was maybe one of
five people there, and it's just alovely Renaissance chateau out in
the countryside, on the banks of ariver, again, with period furnishings.
It has formal gardens butalso woodland gardens.
(20:37):
There was a lovely cafe.
So I went and, you know,spent a couple hours there.
It was, just, I think, exactlywhat the doctor ordered.
And after that, I was thinking aboutgoing to Lascaux Painted Caves, and I
drove over to Montignac, but then whenI got there, I saw what a charming
village it was, and there was avide-grenier going on, which seemed to
(20:59):
be like a community garage sale or...
Yeah.
... thrift market, and it just was vast.
And I thought, "Well, I'm not goingto pass this by." I love- ... French
and so I just, you know, spent a goodamount of time wandering around in that.
They also had a really interesting artisanmarket, you know, with jewelry, just
things that local craftspeople made thatis housed in a converted church as well.
(21:24):
And just, you know, lots of interestingshops, I picked up... You know,
walnuts are so big there that Ipicked up some walnut liqueur, and
it's just... it's absolutely lovely.
Did not make it to Lascaux,so that means I have another
excuse to return to the region.
Yeah, Montignac is alovely little town, really.
If people don't find accommodationsin Sarlat, I think it's good
(21:48):
to also stay in Montignac.
It's a cute town.
It really is.
And Lascaux, well, yeah, you'regoing to have to go back.
You hadn't bought your tickets in advance?
No.
Okay.
Yeah.
I bought Pech Merle in advance.
That was the one that I was, youknow, somehow really spoke to me.
But yeah, I think I also anticipatedLascaux to be a little bit more
(22:09):
crowded, and perhaps more tourists.
And so...
It usually is, yes.
Yeah.
I just, kind of, really was more lookingfor a little bit more off the beaten
track experience in this trip, you know,where I could really practice my French
and read the museum signs in French.
And not, you know, just have it, haveEnglish be such a default as well.
So it's interesting because the Chateaude Losse, which you just mentioned
(22:33):
earlier, I have driven past it manytimes but I have never stopped.
Because the reality is I'm alwaysgoing somewhere and you see so many
things of interest along the waythat you, sometimes you don't stop.
In the Dordogne you can totally justdrive around and see what you happen upon.
There are so many chateaus, so manythings to visit that you could do that
(22:53):
in the Dordogne, if you wanted to.
Absolutely.
I know, there's just like, as Isaid, an embarrassment of riches.
It's so, it's lovely.
Lovely.
Another thing that I loved, thiswas a real high point for me of
the Dordogne and the trip really,was going to Chateau des Milandes.
Josephine Baker, youknow, she is such a hero.
I mean, in addition to her greatcontributions to the arts, her
(23:17):
contributions as a civil rights leaderand as a war hero are extraordinary.
And if anybody has not listenedto the podcast that you and Elyse
did on Josephine Baker, please do.
And so the chateau itself is justfascinating, there are exhibitions
that cover all of these things.
You know, her work during the resistancein World War II, her contributions to
(23:40):
the American Civil Rights movement.
Her career as an artist.
There are also lots ofother things to enjoy.
The gardens are breathtaking,there are animals everywhere.
There are multiple aviaries, includingone that houses birds of prey that
they use in falconry exhibitionsthat take place throughout the day.
(24:02):
There are aviaries with peacocks andparrots that you can actually enter into.
There are sanctuaries with baby goats.
I mean, it's just...
Yes.
If you're an animal lover, you canspend a fair amount of time there.
Yeah, you will enjoy it.
And the bird shows are good.
I like them.
When I go I try to stay for thebird show because I enjoy it.
(24:23):
Yes, I did as well.
It was really interesting.
Yeah.
It's fascinating.
And there's a little cafe thereas well that's quite pleasant.
Very pleasant.
I think I had discovered the great,another genius French invention,
the Cafe Gourmand, there as well.
But I had it with tea.
But, you know, for those whodon't know, it's coffee or tea
(24:44):
with a bunch of little desserts.
So you get to sample a bunch of stuff, so.
Yeah, beautiful place.
I definitely highly recommend thatyou go to the Chateau des Milandes
because it's open year round I think.
And it is just beautifuland very, very interesting.
So yeah, a great recommendation.
Yes, absolutely.
(25:05):
also, let's see, the other reallyexciting thing that I did when I was
in the Dordogne is I went to Beynac.
I went to the Chateau de Beynac, whichis... it's impossible to really pick
one chateau to go to in that region,you know, if you're there for a day.
And I was kind of debatingbetween that one and, oh gosh,
is it Castelnau de la Chapelle?
Yeah, Castelnau de la Chapelle, yep.
(25:27):
They're the two that arelike, ah, they're both great.
Exactly.
But I decided to go with the Frenchone because isn't Castelnau de la
Chapelle has more of an English history?
Or maybe I'm missing...
Oh, maybe it does.
I don't remember that.
Yeah.
So I went to that.
It has so many connections with veryimportant era of French history,
with Richard the Lionhearted.
(25:49):
The views are extraordinary.
I mean, it's just so,so, so well presented.
The village itself is absolutely charming.
I think I've heard that it was the villagewhere the film Chocolat was filmed.
Oh, perhaps.
It's just, you know, just crazypicturesque, charming, adorable.
And went as, I went on a flat bottomboat tour, one of the gabar tours,
(26:13):
down the Dordogne, from Beynac,which was just, you know, wonderful.
I mean, you spend an hour lookingfrom one riverside chateau to the
next, you know, getting a narrative.
You can't go wrong.
Yeah.
Those little boat tours alongthe Dordogne are really fun.
They're just really pleasant.
I don't know.
(26:33):
I've never taken one that I thought, "Oh,that was a rip-off." You know, I like it.
And in Beynac you canalso do hot air balloons.
There's a bunch of things.
I'll try and list a few in the show notes.
But there's a bunch of more, like,daredevil, you know... Yeah, I can imagine
you would never go on a hot air balloon.
(26:54):
Neither would I.
No, no, no, no.
A sea level floating downthe river, that's... I agree.
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.
It's very pleasant.
It is so no pressure.
It's just, you know,everything was easy about it.
Easy to park, you just,you know, get on the boat.
You can choose to have anEnglish translation of the tour.
I, by that point in time,didn't feel like I needed one.
(27:14):
But, I mean, it just was a verylow pressure, real day, you know?
Wonderful.
Yeah.
I had a wonderful time.
Yeah, so that, I think, thoseare the highlights of my time
in the Lot and the Dordogne.
Did you ever make it to any ofthe Abris or Abri de la Madeleine
or, or... No, you didn't?
Okay.
(27:34):
Next trip.
So next time, next time.
Yeah, because in the Dordogne,really, you have chateaus, you have
things you can do on the river,either canoe or take a boat ride.
You have the abris,which are the shelters.
You have the prehistoric caves, andyou have several of each, so you have
to pick which one you're going to see.
(27:56):
But the abris are definitely a bigdeal, because you get to see how
early, you know, people a long,long time ago, how they lived.
And I know in some ways, we are justtrying to recreate, we don't have a lot
of written evidence, but the archeologistsare pretty good at looking for evidence
(28:17):
and finding, you know, little things.
It's much easier thanprehistorical paintings.
You know, the abris are...we know more about those.
Well, another excuse to go back, for sure.
So, from Sarlat then I, you know,spent a lot of time in village,
a more rural life in France.
So, I moved on to city life inToulouse, which is rightfully been
(28:39):
named the best vacation destination,as you said, by Lonely Planet.
I absolutely fell in love with this city.
I don't... You know, it's just the...yes, it has extraordinary markets.
It has wonderful, wonderful museums.
It's beautiful.
The historic center is charming.
I don't know, there's just like alightness and a joy and a happiness
(29:02):
to the place that you just, you cannothelp but pick up on when you're there.
It absolutely charmed me.
Yeah, and it's easy life.
I mean, life in Toulouse is pretty,it's not crazy fast, but it... You can
tell it's a city with plenty of work.
So, you know, people canmake a good living here.
(29:22):
They don't particularly struggle withany of the, you know, terrible weather
or hurricanes or whatever it is.
And so it's, you know,it's- it's a good life.
We have good wine, good food.
We have a lovely accent.
There's another podcast that I listento on life in France, I think that
(29:44):
they just, they reported on somesurvey where they said that French
people view the Toulouse accent as themost alluring of all French accents.
So...
I'm not surprised.
And it's really funny because Idon't think of myself as having
an accent, but I really do.
When I speak French, oh... I havesuch a strong Toulouse accent.
I can't help it.
(30:05):
When I was younger, I worked againstit, but now I don't even care.
"Ah, that's how I talk. That's it."
Well, I think most people probablywould say it's a bonus for
you, then, to have that accent.
Yes.
Thank you.
It's such a lovely city, and I stayedin the most wonderful apartment.
A couple bought a townhouse you know,an older townhouse, probably not
(30:27):
really old by France standards, butcertainly by my standards, and converted
it into, oh, maybe 10 or so guestapartments, and they just were lovely.
You know, all of them had privateterraces, super comfortable
beds, great air conditioning,beautiful modern kitchens.
The hosts were as lovely as possible, youknow, leaving snacks and goodies for you.
(30:49):
And yeah, it was just a delight.
It was in the Les Carmes neighborhood.
Am I pronouncing that correctly?
Les Carmes, yeah, yeah.
And it was called Le Clos des Salins.
So La Place des Salins is abig plaza, I assume you entered
through The Place des Salins.
There was a little very narrowlittle street around the place and,
you know, just wind around that fora few minutes and you enter behind
(31:12):
big metal, ornamental gates intoa beautiful courtyard absolutely
loaded with geraniums and... Yeah.
And there were allthese lovely apartments.
One day I will be able to make mywork schedule work to go to the boot
camp and I will absolutely stay there.
Well, that's a good recommendation forpeople who are coming to the boot camp.
Le Clos des Salins, I'll putthe link in the show notes.
(31:33):
Oh, good.
You know, one thing, I found all ofthe accommodations in the Southwest
wonderful, but also extremely affordable.
Very, very well priced.
So, it leaves you more money to spendon the local wine and, you know,
walnuts and- ... yeah, whatever,truffles and all the other specialties.
Whatever tickles your fancy.
(31:54):
Exactly.
So the first thing that I did in Toulouse,was Elyse's walking tour, VoiceMap
walking tour, which was... It's such awonderful way to give you the lay of the
land, to give you, you know, a real richunderstanding of the city right away so
that then, you know, as you spend thenext few days exploring, you already
(32:15):
have a pretty strong base of knowledgeabout the layout, the history, and high
points that would be of interest to you.
So, you know, based on that, I spenta fair amount of time in markets.
The covered market in Les Carmes, Iwent to that pretty much every day.
I also went to the Victor Hugo market,which was wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
(32:38):
And then you had given me a recommendationof your favorite cheese shop right around
the corner from there, so I went thereand had loads of fun talking with the
people in the store, the salespersons,or the cheese experts, really.
Xavier.
Xavier.
(32:59):
Xavier.
Yeah.
An excellent cheese shop rightby the Victor Hugo Market.
Yes.
They did not steer me wrong inselecting my cheese plate and
one thing I did learn about theSouthwest, not only is chocolatine,
chocolatine and not a pain au chocolat,
instead of asking if I want a sac at theend, they asked me if I wanted a poche-
(33:22):
Une poche.
Vous voulez une poche?
I know, I mean, that was the fun part,I think, of just really, you know,
kind of jumping in and using my veryintermediate French was, I had to, like,
"Okay, what do you mean by that? Is thisactually, you know, what you call a sac
here?" We had some real good laughs.
The guys there were really fun.
Yep.
That's how we say it.
Sac, une poche.
(33:45):
It was a lot of fun.
And what else?
There are some really greatmuseums as well in Toulouse.
I went to the Musée de la Résistance,which is, you know, very much about the
Resistance during World War II in France.
They have a very touching, movingexhibition on that as well, but then
they also had a temporary exhibitionon the rise of fascism in Spain with
(34:08):
Franco, which, you know, was really,really, really well presented.
Let me see.
I went also to... Oh, this is agood one, the Fondation Bamberg.
Fondation Bamberg.
Yeah, they're... Andthey are now reopened.
They were closed for awhile, but they're reopened.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a beautiful museum.
(34:28):
I'm hoping I'm remembering right, I thinkit's in a Renaissance building, like a big
Renaissance mansion around a courtyard.
It's absolutely gorgeous.
I mean, even if you don't go into see the collection, I'd highly
recommend just going to look at thebuilding and the architecture itself.
It's gorgeous.
Yeah, the courtyard is fabulous.
Elyse gives a very, very goodin-person Renaissance tour.
(34:51):
She's threatened to do iton VoiceMap a few times.
Hasn't done it yet.
I got to shake her down.
Please do it.
Shake her down and get thatproduced before I return.
Yeah, but it's got a wonderfulcollection of, you know, art from
the Renaissance through the 18thcentury, a lot of, you know, the
old masters and that sort of thing.
It was absolutely delightful.
(35:12):
There are also somereally great cathedrals.
I think it was Cathédrale Saint-Etienne.
Yep.
Saint-Etienne.
Yep.
Beautiful and stunning.
One place also that I don't really... I'mnot sure if it's really used entirely as
a church, but the Couvent des Jacobins.
Yeah.
That was really interesting because,yes, it's this extraordinarily,
(35:34):
architecturally beautiful space,but they have installed you know,
kind of like a modern art exhibitionwith light and with soundscapes.
And I think that they installed thatto guide people into experiencing the
cathedral in, like, a more sensory way.
Yep.
And it was really fascinating,especially the sound component.
(35:56):
Yeah, it's not a church anymore.
It hasn't been a churchfor a very, very long time.
It stands out because it'sa place for performances.
The cloister is absolutely beautiful.
They often have temporary exhibitsthat come through and Saint
Thomas of Aquinas is buried there.
So, his casket is there.
(36:16):
Yeah.
Yes, as I recall, the Saint Thomas ofAquinas casket is pretty front and center.
It's a very large monument,very accessible if people are
interested in visiting that.
Absolutely.
So I could probably, you know, justwax poetic about Toulouse forever
but- ... I know that time is limited.
So, after Toulouse I headed up toBordeaux, and spent a couple of days
(36:40):
there as well, which is also a fascinatingcity, the historic center and, all of the
great monumental buildings are stunning.
I think the high point of Bordeaux forme was going to the Cité du Vin museum.
You could spend a day there.
It is absolutely fascinating.
Have you been, Annie?
Yep, I have.
It's lovely.
(37:00):
One of my favorite museums.
Yep.
And it's such an education.
I mean, it really gives you a deep diveinto, I think, every varietal of French
grape and all of the wines that stemfrom it, you know, an understanding
of how the terroir and the regionimpacts the development of the wine.
It was super fun.
They have certain stations wherethey even, like, puff aromas at
(37:22):
you so that you can, you know,have a better understanding of it.
It culminates in a glass of wine at thetop of the building in their tasting room.
It was just absolutely lovely.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it's a beautiful museum.
And Bordeaux is a differentcity from Toulouse.
I mean, it has a different feel to it.
Very.
It's also very nice.
Some people prefer Bordeaux, somepeople prefer Toulouse, but they're
(37:46):
both worth visiting, I think.
Absolutely.
I mean, I loved Bordeaux, absolutely.
I mean, full disclosure,I think I'm team Toulouse.
But Bordeaux isabsolutely, it's wonderful.
And I do wish, I would have had moretime to spend there, because when you're
only in a place for two or three days,you only get the top level, you know?
(38:06):
Sure.
And there, there were so many museumsI would have loved to have seen, and
also, I would have loved to, to go,have gone out into, you know, some
of the vineyards outside of the city.
Oh, oh, also, there's a wonderfulcovered market in Bordeaux,
the Marché des Capucins.
Uh-huh.
I can't go to a citywithout seeking out markets.
That's just...
Yeah, you like the markets.
(38:28):
That's great.
And one really interesting thing overallabout this trip and the markets was,
I was there in the summer during bothrounds of voting for the snap elections,
and I discovered that the French way ofpolitical advertising is very different
than the American way, in that, in themarkets or by subway stations, there
(38:49):
would just be you know, volunteers orcampaign workers handing out brochures,
trying to engage in conversations, ratherthan doing big, you know, ad campaigns
and that sort of thing like we do here.
And so, because I was really strivingto work on my French, I got to engage in
a lot of, you know, conversations withpeople, just about current affairs in
France, and they had great interest inwhat was going on in the United States.
(39:12):
And then, you know, a big pivotalelection had just happened in England.
So, you know, I was really able toengage as best I could with my French,
or, you know, lapsing into Franglais.
You know, conversationsjust about global affairs.
Yeah, they must have loved youbecause most of us French people
run away from these people.
But you want to actually talk to them.
That's great.
I'm that dorky tourist, for sure.
(39:34):
No, that's great.
That's great.
Yeah, I mean, honestly,we should talk to them.
They probably have good points to make.
But most people know howthey're going to vote.
Like, you know... But whatever.
We're not here to discuss politics.
But it is quite different, there aren't...I don't think there's- well, I don't
watch French TV, so what do I know?
It's not that I never watch French TV.
I rarely watch French TV.
(39:55):
So I don't- it's not like I haveit on in the background, so do
we have political ads on TV?
I don't think we do.
I don't think we do.
No.
I watched a fair amount of,you know, French television.
Or not watched, I had it on in myapartment just because I'm always trying
to get my ear trained to hear French.
I don't recall any, and thatwas during, you know, kind
(40:16):
of a- a very political time.
So...
Very, very, yeah.
I think you're right.
Yeah, I think we don't have any.
Yeah.
So what did you learnabout France on this trip?
Are there things that were new to youthat you hadn't discovered before?
You know, things that were new to me... Imean, I love walnuts, and I learned that
walnuts are elevated in the Southwest.
(40:38):
I mean, the food everywhere inFrance is delicious, but when
you go to a different region, youget to discover different things.
The chocolate-covered walnuts are great.
I came home with kilos of walnuts,vacuum-packed, walnut oils.
I hope my sisters won't be listeningto this, because I did bring back
walnut oil for both of them that Idecided I needed to keep for myself.
(40:58):
Walnut liqueur.
I mean, it's justmind-blowingly delicious.
There were also... I love floralflavors, and in Toulouse especially,
I think violet is a big thing there.
So, I found an extraordinary pastry,the Toulouse version of the Paris-Brest,
which I think they called it aToulouse-Brest, which was the same thing
(41:19):
as the Paris-Brest, but instead of thehazelnut crème pâtissière, it has violet.
Which was mind-blowinglydelicious in my opinion.
You know, I had violet ice cream.
It was... I learned lotsof things like that.
I think in traveling, you also kind oflearn a lot about your own resilience.
I like to travel alone, and so, youknow, it's just me figuring things out.
(41:43):
On the first few days of my trip,there was this global cell phone
outage, and so my Google Maps on myphone or my Apple Play didn't work.
That's just what you useare the maps on your phone.
And I hadn't figured out a plan B,and so I figured out how to navigate
through Cahors and the countryside inthe Lot without, you know, Apple Maps.
(42:05):
Huh.
In the car, it wasn't so bad becausethere was kind of a rudimentary GPS,
but once I was in, you know, a villageoutside of the car, I would even do
things like, all right, if I want toget to this restaurant from the car,
map it out in the car, and then take aphoto of it on my phone to follow that.
So you figure out, youknow, parts of yourself.
(42:26):
Also, as we brought up earlier,I'm terrified of heights.
And so Saint-Cirq-Lapopieis a very steep place.
So, this is kind of teaching meabout resilience and how much, you
know, if you just don't freak outand figure it out, you're fine.
Don't let fears get inyour way of anything.
So I'm leaving, driving down thatvery, very steep street, and some
guy on a motorcycle is driving up,and he's yelling at me in French.
(42:51):
And he was saying, Ithink it was recueillait.
And I was like, "What is thatword? I don't know what the..."
Reculez.
Reculez.
And I didn't know what that word was,so I was trying to, you know, down,
window down, trying to explain to him,"I'm learning French." And, you know,
anyway, he just then yelled at me (43:05):
le bus!
Le bus!"
And so then I looked up and rightbehind him was this gigantic bus.
And so in spite of the fear of heights,backed up the side of a, you know,
pretty sheer drop-off, and I survived it.
I did not panic.
And I think that I learned thingslike that about myself that, "You
(43:26):
know what? You got this." You know?
So, this is funny that you had arun-in with this guy, because I've
had a run-in with this guy as well,both when we went with a tour,
because I wanted people to get offwhere he didn't want us to get off.
So, we discussed, because he's just amunicipal employee, and another time, I
think I was trying to pick up somebody ona private tour also on that roundabout,
(43:49):
and he did not want me to stop.
Not even for a second.
But there was nobody elsecoming, so I just ignored him.
But he is very insistent.
He is very ... scary.
Not really wanting to engage and,"Can you say that in a different way
and more in simpler, slower French?"
Yeah, no.
It all worked out.
And you know what?
I love that sort of thing because itreally, it's a great travel story.
(44:12):
When I came home and told my sisters,they thought that was hilarious.
Some guy yelling at you, youdon't know what he wants.
Yeah, exactly, and you know what?
I figured out how to back up the sideof a cliff without freaking out, so...
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the rule in France is, if there'sa bus coming, it's the smallest
vehicle that needs to back out.
So, you know, he was telling you right.
(44:32):
You were supposed to back out.
That's how it works.
Wow.
Okay.
Well, we've been talking a longtime already, but it sounds
like you had a wonderful time.
It sounds like you made themost of a wonderful two weeks.
Was it two weeks?
Three weeks?
It was two weeks.
You made the most of it.
(44:52):
You were by yourself, but I don't thinkyou ever cared one way or the other.
You were quite happy.
I am very happy to be able to bein a fascinating, beautiful place
like France, do exactly what I want,when I want, and be entirely in my
head when I'm looking at, you know,extraordinary art or just, you know,
awe-inspiring historical monuments.
(45:13):
That's my happy place, for sure.
People were so nice and so willingand happy to chat with me and
engage in conversations in French.
It was fantastic.
I think my only regret is, Ididn't, you know, there are so many
things to see that I didn't get to.
I think even this summer, I'mkind of contemplating a return
to Toulouse and then spread outalong the south, maybe toward Nice.
(45:36):
For example, I've learned through thepodcast there's a Goya museum in Castres
that I really wanted to get to, but Ididn't want to take a day away from my
beloved Toulouse in order to do that.
So, you know, I think I'vealso learned that it's never
enough time in the Southwest.
Yeah.
And the Southwest is lotsto do, lots to do, so...
Thank you so much, Dawn.
You've been a delight to talk to.
(45:57):
You've shared some great stuff,and it was wonderful, you know, I
was right at home in the Southwest.
It's fantastic.
Well, thank you so muchfor the podcast, Annie.
You have inspired not only thistrip, but, you know, so many other
fantastic wanderings in France inthe past that I've done, that I'm
confident I will take in the future.
So, you and Elyse are treasures.
(46:19):
Thank you for all you do.
And thank you for yoursupport over the years.
Very, very appreciated.
Merci beaucoup.
Merci, Annie.
Au revoir.
Au revoir.
Once again, a big thank youto my wonderful patrons.
Your support makes this podcastpossible week after week.
(46:43):
I am pre-recording a few episodesright now, so no new shout-outs
today, but I have not forgotten you.
Every single patron helps keep thelights on at Join Us in France.
If you've been enjoying theshow and want to give back,
consider joining us on Patreon.
It starts at just $3 a month, and you'llget access to exclusive rewards and
(47:04):
ad-free episodes as soon as they're ready.
Visit patreon.com/joinus to learn more.
And if you're already apatron, merci, merci, merci.
You're the reason this show keeps going.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
(47:30):
Like I said before, I'm recordingahead this week, so I don't have any
new VoiceMap reviews to share, butif you're curious about what other
listeners think of my VoiceMap tours,head over to joinusinfrance.com/vmr.
That stands for VoiceMap Reviews.
You'll find lots of feedback fromfellow travelers who've walked the
(47:51):
streets of Paris with me in their ears.
Maybe your review willbe the next one I read.
Podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours on my website.
It's best for me as well because I getto keep more of what you pay instead
of giving it to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, it'sa manual process, so don't expect it
(48:11):
to be instant like it would be if youwere buying directly from the app.
But most of you listening plan theirtrips at least a few days in advance,
some of you it's a lot longer thanthat, so you're probably not in a rush.
To use your code, open VoiceMap,tap Tour Codes at the bottom right,
enter the code, and download tour.
(48:31):
You own it forever.
Even if you change phones, just log intoyour VoiceMap account to access it again.
The tours work without data becausethe audio, images, and maps are
downloaded to your phone, and GPS worksanywhere, even without cell service.
Best of all, you can listen invirtual playback from anywhere
(48:52):
in the world, perfect if Parisis not in your immediate plans.
Take me in your pocket with VoiceMap.
If you're planning a trip to Franceand want expert help, you can hire
me as your itinerary consultant.
It's a busy season, so book earlyat joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
Usually I have openings within amonth, but right now it's more like
(49:14):
two or three months out, so don't wait.
Let's talk about the hidden messagesin the obelisk at Place de la Concorde.
This is something fun anda little bit mysterious.
The obelisk at the Place dela Concorde, you've seen it.
It's that great, tall granite, pinkgranite, kind of, monument from Luxor.
(49:37):
It's covered in hieroglyphics rightin the middle of Paris traffic.
It's been there since 1836.
But guess what?
Turns out it still hasa few secrets to share.
A French Egyptologist namedJean-Guillaume Olette-Pelletier, what
a great French name, just revealedthat he's cracked seven hidden coded
(50:00):
messages carved into the stone.
He spent over four years workingon this discovery, and it all
started during the COVID lockdowns.
He lived nearby and would walkover to the obelisk during
his allowed one-hour outings.
One day, something in the carvingslooked off, so he came back the next
(50:21):
day with binoculars and a notebook.
Yes, really.
That's when he noticed what he nowcalls cryptographic hieroglyphs, symbols
carefully disguised inside regular scenes.
Later, during the restoration of theobelisk ahead of the Paris Olympics,
he got access to the scaffolding.
(50:41):
He was able to get close enoughto confirm what he suspected, the
carvings included secret messages.
What do these messages say?
Eh, it's all about Ramesses II.
According to Olette-Pelletier, theywere ancient propaganda meant to show
that Ramesses was of divine origin.
One coded phrase, for example,combines symbols to say, "Soothe
(51:04):
the vital force of the god Amun."
And that's a powerful political messagewhen you're trying to convince your
elites that your power comes straightfrom the gods, and probably that you're
the only one who can save everybody.
That's what they all do, isn't it?
These messages were carved in a veryspecific spot on the side of the
(51:25):
obelisk that would have faced the Nile,where Egypt's nobles could see it.
These weren't meant for theaverage person on the street.
This was elite messaging designedto reinforce Ramesses' authority.
And here's the kicker, not allEgyptologists agree with this
interpretation, of course, itwouldn't be any fun if they all did.
(51:48):
The idea of hidden codes in hieroglyphsis still debated in academic circles,
but Olette-Pelletier stands by hisresearch and he'll be publishing the full
results in a specialized journal soon.
So next time you walk by thePlace de la Concorde, maybe take
a closer look at the obelisk.
(52:08):
Who knows what else is hiding there?
You could try with binoculars,but stay away from Paris traffic.
Either that or let theexperts do the decoding.
My thanks to podcast editors Anneand Christian Cotovan, who produced
the transcripts and the audio.
Join us next week on Join Us in Franceas we dive into the unforgettable journey
(52:30):
of Linda and Scott Rogers in France.
From the bustling streets of Paris tothe tranquil beauty of Annecy and the
excitement of the Paris Olympic Games,Linda and Scott share their adventures,
travel tips, and cultural insights.
Hear all about their journey,challenges, and the magic of
experiencing France like a local.
(52:52):
Don't miss that one.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
(53:14):
no derivatives license.
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