June 22, 2025 • 55 mins
Exploring Paris and Strasbourg: Notre-Dame Highlights and Winter Traditions — Have you ever wondered what it’s like to visit France in the winter? In this episode of the Join Us in France Travel Podcast, host Annie Sargent chats with Kim Cox, a listener from Minnesota, about her December adventures in Paris and Strasbourg.
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They talk about how to enjoy Paris museums like the Musée d'Orsay and the Musée de l'Orangerie when the weather is chilly and the days are short. Kim shares what you can currently see at Notre-Dame de Paris, including the ongoing restoration and the excellent archaeological crypt right in front of the cathedral.
Then it’s on to Strasbourg, where Kim timed her visit perfectly to enjoy the Strasbourg Christmas markets, known as some of the best in Europe. She offers tips for navigating the festive crowds, finding the best vin chaud, and learning about Alsatian culture at the local museum.
If you're curious about winter travel in France, exploring Paris and Strasbourg in December might be just what you're looking for. It’s a great time for museum visits, festive lights, and warm comfort food.
Subscribe to the Join Us in France Travel Podcast for weekly episodes about French destinations, history, culture, and practical travel tips.
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:16):
This is Join Us in France, episode551, cinq cent cinquante et un.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Kim Cox about her enchanting
trip to France, including a visitto the reopened Notre-Dame de Paris,
(00:39):
exploring Parisian neighborhoods,winter markets, and hidden gems.
Are you planning a winter trip to France?
Now is the time to do it.
Then perhaps you'd like to indulgein some travel inspiration.
This episode is packed withtips and heartfelt experiences
that you won't want to miss.
This podcast is fueled by chocolatine,caffeine, and the generosity
(01:01):
of wonderful humans like you.
Maybe you've booked an itinerary consult,taken a VoiceMap tour, joined me in my
electric car, come to the boot camp,or sent a few euros my way on Patreon,
and I appreciate it more than you know.
Want to help me keepgoing and skip the ads?
There's a link for that in the show notes.
(01:24):
Visit joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And merci beaucoup.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Kim today, I'll
discuss a big solar project going onright in the heart of Paris, and I'll
update you on my crazy six weeks whenI was mostly away from my computer.
(01:45):
If you want all the links and thefull episode transcripts, you'll
find everything on the page thatlists all episodes by month at
joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
And if you'd like a handy summary ofthe conversation with all the useful
link, subscribe to the newsletterat joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
(02:06):
That's the best way to stay in the loop.
Bonjour Kim Cox and welcometo Join Us in France.
Bonjour, Annie.
Maybe I should say welcome backbecause you were a boot camper.
Maybe you were on the boot camp episodes.
(02:29):
I was not on the episode, but I wasin the boot camp, my husband and I
were in the very first boot camp.
Wonderful.
Yes, it was a wonderful time.
And I'm thick in the middle ofplanning the next one, so...
Well, they're going to have so much fun.
Thank you.
All right, Kim, you hada recent trip to France.
You went to Paris and Strasbourg,and I want to hear about the
(02:53):
things you particularly enjoyedspending this time in France.
Well, the highlight had to be gettingto see the reopening of Notre Dame.
And, it was just... I would havebeen disappointed had we not been
able to get in, but it was easy.
It really was.
And I think the advice thatI would give is get the app.
(03:14):
Make sure you get the Notre Dameapp, because we knew before we came,
we were lucky and we were followingit on the news, and we knew that
it was going to be open about aweek or two before we got there.
We went to Strasbourg first,and then came to Paris, and we
were there during Christmas.
But we knew that it was going tobe opening, and were following the
(03:35):
news and saw that you could getyour tickets two days in advance.
And so I assumed that they would probablyopen them up at midnight, because I
kept... even prior to that time, Ihad the app and I would just kind of
play around with it and see what wasavailable just so I could get an idea.
And so, the two days before we wanted,so we visited on the 21st of December,
(03:59):
at midnight, the 18th, the night ofthe 18th, so the morning of the 19th,
I logged in and had my choice of times.
Wonderful.
We could have gone any time that day.
There were probably 10 times listed.
And I clicked on, I thinkwe went one o'clock in the
afternoon, and it was great.
When we got there, there was a longline for people who did not have
(04:22):
tickets and who were waiting to get in.
And I talked to somebody at thefront and they said it was about
a two-hour wait at that time.
Oof.
Yeah, that's a long time.
It is.
And it was raining, so it wasn't the best.
But with our reservation, we justwalked right up to the front door, went
through security, and walked right in.
Fantastic.
(04:43):
I would suggest doing that.
It might not be as long a wait inJanuary, February, that time of year,
maybe late in the day, early in the day.
But I imagine it'll get crowdedagain in the spring and summer.
Oh, I'm sure.
Spring and summer, lots and lots ofpeople are going to want to see it.
We can see that there's a huge interestin the cathedral, which makes sense.
(05:04):
It's gorgeous, right?
It was absolutely incredible.
I've been there eight or nine timesbefore because we've been to Paris many,
many times and every time we go... ButI guess I haven't been there... I've
been to Paris eight or nine times.
It's been closed the past few times,so maybe I've been four or five.
But when I walked in,it was just beautiful.
(05:27):
It was so bright.
It was funny because I enjoy architectureand history, and I've read so much about
the Gothic architecture and the flyingbuttresses, and they always say the flying
buttresses are to hold up the sides of thewalls so that they can let in the light.
And although I thought theywere beautiful and I loved the
architecture, I never really understoodletting in the light until now.
(05:50):
Because now you go in and thewindows are beautiful, and not just
the rose windows, but all of them.
They're the most beautiful blue.
and it was raining that dayand it was still very bright.
And they haven't changed anything.
They've just cleaned it.
Yeah.
So I know people are concernedthat it'll be a different place.
It's not a different place.
(06:10):
It's just brighter and cleaner.
And it was just absolutely gorgeous.
The things that I noticed too,the side chapels are all open now.
In the past, they were pretty dingyand some of them I even think they
used for storage or in disrepair.
Now they're all operational and clean.
The paintings have been cleaned.
(06:32):
There's one chapel that hasthe most beautiful blue ceiling
that I've ever seen, and it isjust... It's breathtaking now.
How long did you spend in there andhow long would you recommend people
spend inside of the cathedral?
It depends what you want to do.
I mean, it's a very, veryspecial place for me.
I think the very first placewe went the very first time we
(06:53):
visited Paris, and I just love it.
I'm not a particularly religiousperson, but I find peace there.
Whenever I'm in there, I sit downfor a moment and it occurs to me
that people came to pray for theirloved ones during the plague.
Of course, now we've allsurvived a plague too.
But I think about it and I think,"Well, if it worked out for
(07:14):
them, my problems will probablywork themselves out as well."
So it just sort of gives me some peace.
So I like to spend a littlemore time than most people.
You could go in and out in half anhour and get a really good sense of it.
But we probably spenteasily about an hour.
We might have spent more,but it was very crowded.
I will say it was very crowded.
Yeah.
(07:35):
And you can go into the crypt as well.
There's a bit of a fee for that.
The crypt is a collection of the,kind of the jewels of the cathedral.
The beautiful vestments and thingsthat the bishops of Paris have
collected over the centuries.
I've been down there before.
We didn't go this time.
Although, there is an area inthe back now where they do have
(07:58):
displayed the Crown of Thorns.
Oh, wow.
So we were lucky enough... Or youknow, supposedly, the Crown of Thorns.
Yeah.
We were able to see that aswell and that it, that chapel is
quite impressive even on its own.
All the way past the altar in the back.
Okay.
Yeah, and about getting tickets,I would say, it's going to get...
It's going to be fairly easy.
(08:20):
I'm going in January, it'sgoing to be fairly easy.
But it will get more difficultin May and et cetera.
But the fact that they don't letpeople just reserve up all the tickets
and then try to scalp them, whichis what they would do, you know?
That they would say, "Oh, skip theline at Notre Dame for 50 bucks,"
and lots of people would go for it.
(08:41):
The fact that it's just one day ortwo days before is actually a good
thing, because it's going to stopthat and, a lot of us, as we get
older, we kind of wake up in thenight perhaps to go to the bathroom.
That would be the time to check.
Get your tickets then!
Yes, yes, yes.
Get your tickets then.
(09:02):
Or like you mentioned, goeither early or late, you know?
And perhaps it's easier.
I don't know.
In May, I think it'sgoing to be mobbed again.
It's going to be lots and lots of people.
I would encourage the reservation system.
It did work well.
There were some folks out there sortof milling around talking to some
of the people in line suggestingthey could perhaps pay and get in.
(09:24):
Know that that's a scam.
Yes.
There are no tickets to be sold.
It's free!
Yes.
As a matter of fact, isn't it freeto go into all churches in France?
In France churches are free, whatthey charge you for sometimes is to
go see the treasure or the crypt,which is the same in Notre Dame.
Also, once they reopen the belltowers, they're not open yet,
(09:49):
but once they reopen those, youwill need a paid ticket for that.
So cathedrals themselvesare free in France.
I can't think of a single one whereI've ever had to pay anything to enter,
but you have to pay sometimes forthings that are adjacent to the church.
If someone is visiting and if someonesuggests that you can pay or online
(10:12):
or anything like that, know thatthat is not... That's not a thing.
That's a scam.
It is not a thing.
I hadn't heard about that, thankyou for mentioning it, because I'm
sure again some people will fallfor it or they wouldn't even try.
Yep.
Right.
All right, so the second thing,your second favorite thing that
you mention on your list isChristmas markets in Strasbourg.
(10:34):
Incredible.
Yeah?
Just beautiful.
Just beautiful.
They're everywhere.
It's not like there's justone place that you go.
We enjoy walking, so we would justset out and look at neighborhoods
and enjoy walking around, and itseems like every corner we'd turn,
we'd find a new Christmas market.
And they're all somewhatdifferent, which is wonderful.
(10:56):
They all have a littlebit of a different flair.
You'll come upon some where it, it'sheavily food-focused and they have
like picnic tables out and it looksas if almost the whole community is
out there having dinner together.
And it's wonderful.
And then others are more focusedon preps and Christmas ornaments,
or artisan types of products.
(11:17):
But it was just beautiful,we really enjoyed it.
How long did you spend?
We were in Strasbourg for three nights.
And just Strasbourg?
You didn't try to go do anything else?
We kind of wanted to.
We were going to try to go toColmar and maybe some other places,
but no, we just didn't have time.
One of the things I'm really learning andprobably as I get older on trips is I try
(11:40):
not to pack too much into it, because thenwhen I do that I don't enjoy anything.
It feels like it's work.
We really were trying to do just a,maybe a couple things a day in addition
to walking around and kind of gettinga feel for neighborhoods and so forth.
And it was just... it was fun to doit that way because it was relaxing.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
(12:01):
Now, you were in Strasbourgbefore you went to Paris, so
it was earlier December, right?
You arrived what day?
We were, actually flew into Munich andwe were in Munich for three nights.
I think we came on the 13th, 14th.
So we were in Strasbourgon the 17th and 18th.
Yes, that... For three nights.
Okay.
So pretty close to Christmas, really.
(12:23):
It was very close and it was lovely.
Yeah, but it must've been very busy.
Lots and lots of people, again.
It would get busy in the evening, inthe daytime you could still... I would
suggest if people really want to shop,the time to do that is in the daytime.
I think the market's open at 11:00 AMand that's a good time to actually...
If you want to talk to the peoplewho have their stand, that's a
(12:47):
really good time to do that....and do some shopping and so forth.
And then in the evening, that's a goodtime for kind of milling around and
having your vin chaud and just sort ofenjoying the... enjoying the sights.
Was it very cold this year in Strasbourg?
We were very lucky.
I mean, I'm a Californian,so yeah, it was cold, but...
(13:11):
Yeah.
We had the right clothingand it never stopped us.
I would say it was in, in Fahrenheit,the 40s, which wasn't bad.
No, it's really not bad.
The year we went to Strasbourg,it froze... It was freezing in
the middle of the day, you know?
So it was cold.
The thing in Strasbourg too that, I reallywasn't... didn't know about but very much
(13:34):
enjoyed were just walking the streets inthe evening and seeing the decorations
down the different streets and alleys.
And they were just beautiful.
Just gorgeous.
It's all decked out, isn't it?
It's like all the city is alldecked out ready for Christmas.
They are.
And everyone's in a good mood andvery friendly and it was wonderful.
(13:54):
And there's some wonderfulthings to do there.
I know we'd had some time together beforethe trip and you were, you graciously
shared some of your ideas and we wentto the City Museum, which was wonderful.
And we went on the boat cruise,which my husband affectionately
called the snooze cruise.
That's all right.
Well, if you were jet... No,you weren't jet lagged because
(14:15):
you had been to Munich first.
I think he, he was just tired.
But it was a nice little boat trip.
The thing that was really cool aboutit is that you get to go in a lock.
And we don't often get to do that,and you get to see how that works.
Like a little elevator to bring youup or down and that was really...
Yeah, so that depends on the tour.
(14:35):
Some of them don't, but I, I'mpretty sure most of them you
do get to go through the lock.
Yeah, and that was really cool.
It was fun.
We had a good time.
Wonderful.
All right.
So shopping for food and walking ourparisian neighborhood like a local.
That sounds fun.
Which... What was your Parisianneighborhood this time?
We stayed at a VRBO in the 15th...
(14:59):
Aha.
... and it's very much, very much aneighborhood, it's not a tourist area.
Yeah.
Wasn't it you that was... yourVRBO was on Rue du Commerce?
It was the street overRue des Entrepreneurs.
The Rue des Entrepreneurs.
Yes, yes, yes.
And it was a block away from Ruede Commerce, which was perfect.
(15:19):
Yeah, Rue du Commerce is fun, isn't it?
Yes.
We just so enjoyed walking up anddown the street and we adopted
several of the shops as our own, sowe made fast friends with the cheese,
the fromager, I never can say that.
Fromagere?
Fromagerie.
Thank you.
Fromagerie.
We made very good friends withhim and went there a few times
(15:41):
and got some lovely cheeses.
And of course at thepatisserie, the boulangerie,
then the wine shop, of course.
We loved doing that.
As a matter of fact, one of our favoritememories was on Christmas Eve, we had a
dinner out on Christmas Eve night, butwe knew that for Christmas Day, pretty
much everything was going to be closed.
So we wanted to, on ChristmasEve, go out and get our food that
(16:07):
we would have for Christmas Day.
So we went to about six or seven differentshops, just putting our meal together,
and we had one of those rolling cartsand just walked up and down the street
... and got our food and it... We just feltlike we were real parisians that day.
Yeah.
So your VRBO included a rolling cart?
(16:27):
It did.
That's a splendid idea.
It was very, very fun.
And one of the other places wefound that we enjoyed, we enjoyed
for hors d'oeuvres and also forone night we did, we did use it for
dinner, was Picard, the frozen food.
So tell me what you liked about that.
Well, first of all, it's likenothing we have in the United States.
(16:51):
I know somebody compared it to, like,maybe a Trader Joe's with just frozen
food, but it wasn't like that at all.
It was very, very high-end frozen food.
And you could get anything fromfrozen... just plain frozen vegetables
and frozen fish that you could,you know, make on your own and
make your own sauce and do whateveryou want, or a full prepared meal.
(17:13):
And all kinds of desserts and, I thinkthey're well known for their canapes,
the hors d'oeuvres, which were lovely.
Yep.
We had those with some champagne onChristmas Day and it was wonderful.
Anything you can think of, andit's very well... I would say it's
very high end, very well done.
They're well-packaged,they're never freezer burned.
(17:36):
The instructions on how to warmthem up or use the products are very
well researched, very well written.
It's just a well donefrozen kind of food place.
This year, I just got veganfoie gras from Picard.
It was my first time trying it,and it wasn't bad at all, you know?
(17:59):
It tasted very good.
Okay, I prefer the real thing.
But if you want to be nice to the ducks,then buy the frozen one at Picard.
You put it in the fridge todefrost for 24 hours and then
it's just perfect... you know?
And it's easy.
It was lovely.
And for I think two euro,I now have a Picard bag.
(18:22):
A little grocery bag.
And I now use it at home becauseit brings back nice memories.
Yes, yes.
And a lot of European countrieshave kind of specialty frozen foods.
In Spain it's called La Sirena.
It's also very good, but Picard doesa really, really, really good job
with, like, traditional dishes thatyou can warm up at home, easily.
(18:46):
And at Christmastime, they go allout with the lobsters, the shrimp,
all the seafood, the canapes,all sorts of really good stuff.
Oh, they had so much there.
It was incredible.
Stuffed turkey, stuffed pintade.
The one, the, what's it called?
Triduck, triduck... the one thathas the three different meats.
(19:07):
They had that.
They had everything.
Yeah,
It's hard not to buy oneof everything at Picard.
I know.
I wanted to, but I'm like, "Okay,you're only here a few days.
You're not going to eat it all."
That's right.
That's right.
I actually did leave an item in thefreezer and told our host, I said,
"Well, we didn't get to one. It's in thefreezer. No one's touched it." And she
wrote back and said she couldn't wait.
(19:29):
Oh, yeah.
French people go to Picard all the time.
This is not a touristy thing.
This is... Actually, most touristsprobably don't know about it.
So Picard is a... is a good tip.
Well, there were the shops everywhere.
From where we stayed, we musthave been close to at least three
of them within walking distance.
And so when we would take our walks,I would see them again, and we were
(19:50):
laughing about it because I said,"Well, I'm sure they've been here
around us every time we visited,but I've never noticed them before."
Well, but because the 15th is a... areal neighborhood, like a real, where
people live they have more of them.
If you've had a long day at work,but you don't want to eat out, you
stop at Picard on your way home,you'll eat a delicious dinner, and
(20:11):
you haven't had to do very much work.
And it's not that expensive either.
The prices are reasonable.
They really are.
I mean, for a family, it would bewonderful to do that easily, and
it's much cheaper than eating out.
That's for sure.
Ah, yep, it is.
Well, the free ad for Picard is over.
Hey, they're not payingus to say any of this.
(20:32):
This is really what we think.
You enjoyed cafe cultureeven in the winter.
I did.
It was our... We'd never been toEurope at all in... Well, no, I'd
been to England in the winter.
But I'd never been toFrance in the winter.
And I was kind of a little bit worried,because I thought, "Well, it's not going
to be as much fun as it is in the summer,or in the spring or the fall," because
(20:55):
we enjoy walking so much, and gettingout, and sitting in the cafe and watching
the world go by, and that kind of thing.
And I thought we would miss outon that, but we didn't at all.
The cafes are booming, even in the winter.
There are people who sit outside,even when it's freezing, and they're
generally the people who want to beout there because they want to smoke.
(21:15):
Yep.
But there was one day that, I thinkit was Christmas Day actually, when we
were walking around, there was a cafeopen, and we stopped, and it was pretty
warm, so we just sat outside for afew minutes, and it was kind of nice.
I will say, that I had not spentvery much time in the cafes inside
because I've always been outsidebecause the weather's been good.
But inside is lovely.
(21:35):
Some of the places they'rebeautiful, they were beautifully
decorated for the holidays.
And they try to sit you by thewindow anyway, so you get to, to
have that experience, but you'renot freezing, and the bonus is
there's no one smoking inside.
That's right.
That's a big plus.
So
it was wonderful.
(21:56):
We had a great time.
I went to... we would go somewhereand usually stop at a cafe for lunch
maybe or just to get a cup of coffeeor a glass of wine or something, and
sometimes that would turn into a meal.
Yeah.
But it was wonderful just sittingthere, we got the same experience, I
think, as sitting outside when we satby the window and watched everyone,
(22:18):
particularly with the holidays, walkingby with, scurrying around getting
their things, and it was wonderful.
That's fantastic.
The next thing is the StrasbourgHistorical Museum, but you already
mentioned that you like that, so we'lljust move on to the Resistance Museum in
Paris, which is also in the 15e, I think?
Yes.
It was very, very well done.
(22:40):
I had not really, I wasn'treally familiar with that.
I believe you had mentioned it, because,you know, when you've been to Paris
many, many times, the first few times,you do kind of the big hits, right?
Then you start sort of delvinginto it a little bit further.
And this is one I'd not gone to before.
It looks like it's been redone recently.
Oh, it's not a very old museum,so this is the original.
(23:01):
They haven't redone it yet.
I think it's maybe 10 yearsold, no more than that.
It's very moving, andvery, very informative.
Everything is in French andEnglish, so it's easy to follow.
The thing I really like is that it takestwo people who were important during
the Resistance and kind of followstheir lives throughout the museum.
(23:25):
So you get to follow these two individualswho are different, very different in
focus, but you get to follow them fromthe beginning of their lives at the
start, and then you follow them throughthe different time periods that they're
presenting, and you can see what...
So it's Jean Moulin.
Who's the other one?
I can't remember.
(23:45):
Jean Moulin and then another...
But, it's fascinating.
And then they show allof these other people.
They make it very human.
It's not just like going to amuseum and seeing the facts.
It's very human because they givea lot of information about specific
individuals and what they did duringthe Resistance, their role, how it
ended for them, that type of thing.
(24:06):
So, I found it very moving.
I wouldn't take little children.
I don't think it wouldreally be that appropriate.
But I'd say anybody over, you know, 12.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you get to go into the bunker as well?
We did not.
We weren't in the mood towalk down and up again, but...
Yeah.
So in that museum, at specifictimes, one of the tour guides takes
(24:29):
people down to the actual bunker.
It wasn't ever used for protectionfrom bombing really, but it was used
for meetings for the Resistance.
And so it was an important place.
It's a bunch of stepsand then cement rooms.
And there's a place for a bicycle wherethey could do a pump to get fresh air into
(24:51):
the... into the... it was interesting,I don't remember what all I saw, but
it was really interesting, I thought.
So if you have a chance, it mightbe good to go there as well.
It was very fascinating.
I think sometimes we don't realizethe contributions that were made by
the individuals who were part of theResistance, and how, you know, there
were contributions large and small.
(25:12):
But, you know, we may not bewhere we are today without it.
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
You did a walk, guided walkon VoiceMap of Strasbourg.
How did that go?
It was great.
We had a good time.
You should do one becauseyours would be wonderful.
But we did because you had introduced meto VoiceMap through your tours, I had the
(25:38):
confidence to go in and try another one.
We did that, and it was wonderful.
Both my husband and I, we had theearbuds, and he had one and I had one,
so we could listen at the same time.
Right, that works well, doesn't it?
I mean...
It did.
It really did.
And we walked around the town.
It was probably a couple hours.
And you would stop it and go dosomething different for a while.
(26:00):
But it was great.
I loved it.
It gave us all the history and theinformation, and I heartily recommend it.
Yeah, VoiceMap tours arejust good, most of them.
I did one once that I thought, "Eh."But honestly, most of the people
who start doing that kind of workbecause it's... it's hard work doing
it... they really want to sharesomething special about their city.
(26:23):
So I think it's a good thing to do.
It is a good... It is good.
And then if you go offtrack, it tells you.
Well, you hear, you hear the voiceof Gandalf telling you that, "All who
wander are not lost, but you might be."
Yes.
"But you might be."
Yes, yes.
I try to avoid that voice.
(26:43):
So as soon as he comes on,I'm like, "Oh, what'd I do?"
You enjoyed the Carnavalet Museum.
Was this your first time goingback, or your first time ever?
It was my first time ever.
We had not been.
Now, that one I know has beenredone recently, and I was anxious
to see it, primarily because ofthe architecture of the building,
(27:04):
which is an old mansion, I believe.
And it's really, it's really beautiful.
But yeah, it's, that's... It'svery well done, too, in that you
start at the bottom, and it'skind of cool when you go in.
There's just all these different signs.
Yeah.
Yeah, the entrance is cool, I think.
I like it.
Yeah, all these different sort of, kindsof signs that you'd see on the streets
(27:26):
of Paris, and they put them in there.
They're old signs.
And then you go through the museum.
You can go downstairs where it has, like,almost down to prehistoric times, and
see what the area was like at that time.
And then you can just followit chronologically as you go
upstairs, all the way, past theFrench Revolution and into today.
The whole top level with the FrenchRevolution was fascinating to me.
(27:49):
But it goes beyond that.
It goes to a little bit about France,Paris under the Occupation, and things
like that, and the '70s and I think it'sa beautiful museum if you have time.
And it's free.
Like, you know.
So people who are on a budget, even youngpeople... You know, sometimes when you're
younger, you're going with kids, you havetwo or three kids in tow, you're like,
(28:10):
"Oh, that's going to be a lot of money."Well, this one, it's not a lot of money.
Sometimes it's wise to book atime when you're... So you need
a free ticket to enter at times.
Not always.
Sometimes they let people just right in,so... But if you go in May, June, July...
We just walked in that day.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it just depends.
But sometimes there's a lineoutside, sometimes there isn't.
(28:33):
It's, you know... But it's worth going.
It's right in the Marais, which alsohas many other very interesting museums.
But this one is definitelya favorite of mine.
And the little cafe area.
I don't know if you sat in the cafeat all, but it's very nice as well.
We walked through the cafe.
It was very nice.
We were probably there acouple of hours actually.
(28:54):
And then we came out, and just asyou said, that area is booming.
And that was probably one of the daysthat we stopped and had lunch at one
of the cafes we just happened upon.
And it was so much fun.
Yeah.
because that area is so lively.
Yeah.
I think, because you've been to Parismany times you probably understand this,
but people need to think about the factthat they don't really need to plan every
(29:18):
meal that they're going to have in Paris.
No.
No, no, no, no.
If you're going to do somethingspecial, so for example, on Christmas
Eve, we had reserved in advance,probably a month in advance even.
The rest of the time, wemade a couple reservations.
But the most fun we had was just,there was a local café even by
(29:39):
where we were staying that, youknow, probably was, I mean, it's
nothing special, but it was just fun.
We had dinner there acouple of nights, actually.
Yeah.
Becomes your cantine.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Yeah.
And the people start to knowyou, and everyone's very
friendly, and we enjoyed it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When you made thosereservations, how did you do it?
(29:59):
Did you call them?
Did you email them?
Did you use an app?
Oh, that was a little morecomplicated than it needed to be.
I tried to do it online through the,I think, through The Fork, but for
some reason, it wasn't going through.
I kept getting error messages.
So I ended up having to call them.
But that worked out well.
You know, one morning here inthe US I called, and it was,
(30:22):
you know, in the evening there.
So they took my credit card overthe phone and had the reservation.
But it worked beautifully.
We got there.
It was a beautiful meal,that was a big highlight.
One of the things I would say aboutvisiting during holidays, and I'm
sure this would apply to Easter orany other big holiday as well, Paris
(30:44):
is such a big city, there are alwayspeople there who are not celebrating
your specific holiday, who are working.
So we noticed that the people at therestaurant, they probably were not
Christians, so they weren't celebratingChristmas, but they, you know, they
were working very hard and happy to...very friendly and happy to welcome us.
.The drivers when we took... I think we took an Uber home and, you know,
(31:07):
you would notice there, there arepeople who probably celebrate a
different holiday at a different time.
Sure.
Sure.
Yeah, and for special occasions like aChristmas Eve dinner or a Christmas Day
dinner or something, they would almostalways take your credit card because they
don't want to have no-shows, you know.
So they will... And some Michelinrestaurants do this as well.
(31:29):
You can't reserve unless you agree to 50bucks per person and then they'll charge
you however much you actually spent.
But if you don't show up, they'lltake the 50 bucks anyway, you know.
Yeah, and I can understandthat in this situation.
I mean, there was one seating.
It was clear.
It was a four-course dinner.
(31:50):
I'm sure they, you know, theywant to make sure that they're
going to have the funds there.
When we sat there, itwas quite delightful.
When we were sitting at a table and to ourleft was a family that was celebrating.
They were speaking Spanish.
And to our right was a familyand they were speaking French.
And then behind us wasa group of Italians.
And so by the end of the night,we were all wishing each other a
(32:14):
Merry Christmas in our own language.
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
That's great.
You also enjoyed the Pantheon.
Was it your first timeat the Pantheon as well?
It was my first time.
It's surprising I hadn't been to thePantheon because the very first time
we went to Paris with... Gosh, itwas probably, like, 30 years ago now.
(32:34):
My husband and I actuallystayed in that area.
We stayed in the Latin Quarter in a littlehotel by Cardinal Lemoine, the Cardinal
Lemoine Metro stop right down there.
And so we frequented that area, butwe'd never gotten into the Pantheon.
And I think probably because the weatherwas always good, we were always outside.
And this time, it was like, "Okay, let'sdo something inside." And we went in.
(32:58):
And it was really, really cool, theupstairs portion you can get like
a little audio guide and listen toinformation about the artwork and so
forth and that's quite interesting.
I did some of it and then sortof lost a little interest.
But definitely, somethingthat folks would enjoy.
And then you go into the cryptarea and there are maps everywhere,
(33:22):
and if there's a particularperson you want to visit, you can.
I was quite excited based on the podcastepisode, I wanted to see Josephine Baker.
And did that, and some others.
So yeah, it's a pretty cool thing.
It was sort of funny because wewere laughing going, "Oh, here we
are at a crypt at Christmastime."But, it was kind of fun.
(33:45):
I like the Pantheon.
I think it's a wonderful place to visit.
And of course since you were visitingin December, in Paris it rains a
lot, especially this year it rained.
Last year, I mean, it rained a lot.
So you really need to planthings that you can do indoors.
You do.
You do.
And then of course, we were rightthere, so we got to visit some of the
(34:07):
places that we, we... Every time we goto Paris, we always go to the little
square or the circle, that was justdown from our hotel the first time.
It's the Place de la Contrescarpe.
Oh, yes.... beautiful little plaza.
It is.
We always go down thereand go to the café.
It's called Delma's.
And visit and remember.
(34:28):
We always take a picture so that we havethe same picture that we had, of course.
I love it.
That's great.
We're looking a little differentthan we did the first time.
Well, you've aged a bit, but that's okay.
You haven't aged since lasttime I saw you, so that's good.
You went to the Galerie Vivienneand the covered passages?
We did.
We spent some time doing that as wellas going to the Galeries Lafayette
(34:52):
and Printemps, to see the decorations.
Yeah, it's very festive at Christmastime.
It's beautiful.
They were very different.
I would say the Galerie Lafayette,of course, inside has the beautiful
tree in the middle that you canvisit, and then Printemps, is the
one, I think, that has the outside.
Yes, Printemps is all thewindows shopping kind of thing.
(35:14):
It's beautiful.
It is beautiful.
And one of the things that they do thatI thought was lovely is they have little
steps that the children can get up on.
And make sure that they can see aswell, and that, that was lovely.
They don't really have much decorationinside, but there's this outside.
And then going to the coveredpassages was very fun because that
was just so very different, andnot anything I had done before.
(35:37):
And again, somethingwonderful to do in the winter.
Yeah.
And they're pretty close.
Galerie Vivienne is pretty closeto the Printemps and Haussmann.
Wonderful.
All right.
So you went to the Louvre.
Ah, but this time, you went late.
Do tell.
I would say this is a tip that wouldsave everybody a lot of hassle.
(35:58):
If you go to the Louvre, and we'vebeen before, of course, but haven't
been in many, many years, so we thoughtit would be kind of fun to go, and
we thought, "Well, maybe it won'tbe as crowded this time of year."
So we made a reservation to go.
They're open late, Ithink, two nights a week.
I know Friday night is one of them.
I believe the other may be Wednesday.
Oh, that would be new.
(36:19):
Maybe, maybe.
But they're open late on Friday night.
They're open until nine o'clock.
And so we made a reservation at 7:00, andwe got there, and there was no one there.
I mean, it was just... We walked upto the Mona Lisa, no line, nothing.
We're in the Grand Gallery taking picturesof each other and we can... You know,
there's not a million people in there.
(36:41):
So it, it was wonderful.
I would heartily suggest goingat that time because it's
just so empty and wonderful.
Yeah.
I was just doing an itinerary consultwith people who are just going to
be in Paris three days, but theyinclude Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
So okay, this is what you do on Fridays,what you do on Saturdays, what you
do on Sunday, you know, because theyalso wanted to walk my food tour.
(37:05):
And that's lovely if you can walk it onSunday morning because there's actually
an extra little outdoor market plusthe whole shopping street, anyway.
Paris is wonderful, but if you goat the right time, it's even better.
Definitely.
This is our second time that we'vegone in the evening like that.
One time, we were there, and itwas even in the summer, it was even
(37:26):
in the summer because our wholefamily was there, and we went in the
evening, it would've been in June.
And it was not crowded at, even inJune, at late at night like that.
So, I would say it's just the best.
And the other thing is, you can go laterlike that on a Friday night, and let's
say you're there till 8:30, nine o'clock,when you leave, you can still have dinner.
(37:50):
Of course, yeah.
Because the cafés will be open.
And I know that's what we did.
We went back to the 15th nearour apartment, and just went
into the café and had a, for us,a little bit of a later dinner.
But it was packed.
Yeah, people are out.
Right, right.
So don't think that, you know,you have to eat at five o'clock
(38:11):
or something if you do that.
Yeah, that would be abit early, wouldn't it?
Absolutely.
So overall, what sort of trip was this?
Did you learn anything?
You have recommendation, things thatyou want to point out to people that
you learned that you wish to share?
I would say, winter is the perfect time togo to France because it's not as crowded.
(38:36):
I mean, Paris doesn't get that coldreally, I don't think, normally.
And I don't think it usually snows,it might be in the 40s, it might rain.
Yeah, rain, yeah.
It might rain.
But as long as you're prepared forit and you have the correct clothing,
you're not going to... It's not, youknow, you're not going to Iceland.
No, no.
(38:57):
And there's still plenty to do.
So I would say Paris is a good time to go.
This time, because we stayed in anot-so-touristy area, we really did
feel like we were getting to be a littlebit part of the community for a week.
And because it wasn't so touristy,I think the local merchants and
so forth spend more time... That'sthe other thing I would say.
(39:18):
I think everyone... I putthis in my report too.
We all need to stop people whenthey say the French are rude.
I know sometimes when people saythings like that, I just kind of
let it go because I think, "Oh, youhave no idea." But you need to be
proactive and just say, "You know what?
That is just not true."
Because people are people everywhere inthe world, and there are people who are
(39:40):
rude and there are people who are lovely.
But as long as you treat peoplewith kindness and respect, I
think most people want to helpyou and are very, very pleasant.
We made some friends on thistrip, so I, I would say...
That's great.
Yeah.
It's great just to take the timeto talk to people and meet them.
Every time I would try my littlebit of French, they would ask if
(40:01):
I'd like them to speak English.
And so, it was...
That's all right.
Don't take it personally.
Something you didn't like very much, youdidn't love the boat tour in Strasbourg.
That's funny because I really enjoyed it.
But see, it's just a personal,like, perhaps I was in the
mood for a boat tour that day.
(40:21):
Who knows?
You were tired maybe.
You needed the rest.
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
You can just sit there and like...
and then you mentioned thatLa Defense Christmas market
is really nothing special.
I would have to agree.
It's a shopping thing.
Yeah.
it's really, it's not... Idon't think it's worth the time.
My husband made a comment, it wasunfortunate, I guess it was unfair
(40:43):
maybe to the Paris Christmas marketsthat we had been to Strasbourg first.
Yes.
Because my husband, the way hedescribed it was that the Strasbourg
Christmas markets were just thebest, just beautiful, well done,
just what you would imagine.
And then he said, "Well, Paris,they're just too busy being Paris."
(41:06):
Just don't tell them.
Don't tell them that there's othertowns that can do it better than them.
They will get annoyed.
But yeah, I would say, the Christmasmarkets in general in Paris were not
as... Of course they're not as good.
I mean, they're... But the LaDefense one is very commercial.
Maybe if you're a young person and you'relooking for kind of an evening out, that
(41:31):
maybe is, you know, has loud music andmaybe a little more rowdy, might be fun.
Yeah.
So it sounds like you hada relaxing trip to France.
I mean, sounds like you reallyenjoyed yourselves and didn't
stress out about anything.
No, not at all.
Just kind of let, let it go.
The only thing I was stressed out aboutwere getting those Notre Dame tickets.
(41:52):
But after that I was good.
And yeah, it was very, very funand I can't wait to go back.
The thing I learned most I think wasthat no matter how many times I go back,
there's still 100 things I want to do.
Paris is endless.
You can live there and not see everything.
Or you want to go back, or you just like,"Oh, that was fun. I want to do that
(42:15):
again and again and again," you know?
Well, like, for example, even in NotreDame itself, and I'm excited the next time
I go you'll have your VoiceMap tour, yournew tour, and I would like to take that.
But one of the things you can do onthe app, and I wish I had done this,
but I'll do this the next time, whenyou have the Notre Dame app, you can
go on there and you can look at all...they give you a little bit of history
of each of the pieces of art in there.
(42:37):
Nice.
And that's one thing I'dlike to do next time.
Next time I'll go and maybe I'll do alittle research and look at the artwork,
and as I walk around have a greaterappreciation for what each piece is.
Oh, that's cool.
I hadn't noticed that they do that.
That's great that it'sincluded in the Notre Dame app.
That's really cool.
It's right on there, so.
Fantastic.
Well, Kim, you are a delight to talk to.
(42:58):
I always enjoy spending time with you.
Thank you very much for sharing your trip.
And well, come back.
Definitely.
We're already starting to make plans.
And I can't wait.
And I'll look forward tohearing your new VoiceMap app.
And as always, it'swonderful to hear your voice.
So thank you so much and hope everyonegets to see Notre Dame very, very soon.
(43:20):
And it is an absolute treat.
Thank you so much.
Merci, Kim.
Au revoir.
Merci.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinusAnd a special shout-out this
(43:45):
week to my new Join Us in Francechampions, K. Hope, Heather Addison,
Robin, Cathy Georgopoulos, ShirleyCheng, Jennifer Jerzyk, Lisa
Woods Yarnell, and Julie Lynch.
And thank you Beth Murphy andChuba for editing your pledge up.
(44:06):
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3a month, but if you can afford it,
I'd love to have you pledge moreso you have access to more rewards.
Go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elyseart.
(44:28):
Patrons, our next Zoom callsare taking place next weekend,
June 21st and 22nd of 2025.
It's been a long time since we chattedbecause I've been mostly away from
my computer, like I mentioned before.
More on that in a second.
Let me read you some reviewsof my VoiceMap tours this week.
"This is my second VoiceMap inParis from Annie Sargent. She is
(44:51):
thorough and educational. I highlyrecommend this tour if you want
in-depth info about the Eiffel Tower."
About my Montmartre tour, "Amazing.
The instructions for directionswere very clear and easy to follow.
The history was narratedvery structuredly.
I recommend wholeheartedly."
About my Saint-Germain-des-Préstour, "I listened to this tour in
(45:13):
preparation for a recent trip to Paris.
Annie is engaging and entertaining host.
I really enjoyed the historicalwarm-up she provides.
The tour is well done andinformative, but not overwhelming.
It was the perfect preparation forvisiting these sites in person.
VoiceMap is like taking a privatetour with a human guide who lets
(45:33):
you stop whenever you want, picks upagain at your leisure, or even goes
to a different point on the map." Youcannot do that with a live guide, okay?
Podcast listeners get a big discount forbuying these tours from my website, and
it's better for me as well because I getto keep more of the money that you pay
instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
(45:55):
But if you buy it from me, it's a manualprocess, it's going to take minimum 24
hours, sometimes a little bit longer.
To use your code, open VoiceMap, tapTour Codes at the bottom right, enter
the code, and download the tour.
You don't have to use yourtour credit immediately.
It just sits in youraccount until you're ready.
Want to use it on a different device?
(46:16):
Just log into your account.
You can listen in virtual playbackfrom anywhere in the world.
Perfect if Paris is notin your immediate plans.
Take me in your pocket with VoiceMap.
And if you're planning a trip toFrance and want expert help, you can
hire me as your itinerary consultant.
It's a busy season.
Book early at joinusinfrance.com/boutiqueand I will enjoy chatting
(46:41):
with you about your trip.
Let's talk about a big solarenergy project happening
right in the heart of Paris.
The Canopée des Halles, that modern glassand steel structure you see when you visit
Les Halles, where one of my VoiceMap toursis, it's about to get a major eco upgrade.
(47:02):
By January 2026, they'll be installing1,200 solar panels on its roof.
These panels will cover2,200 square meters.
That's a lot of surface dedicated torenewable energy in central Paris.
This project has been inthe works for a while.
In fact, when the Canopée wasdesigned, they had already planned
(47:24):
for solar panels to be added later.
Now it's finally happening, and it'sall part of Paris's climate action plan.
The budget is 715,000 euros.
Dan Lert, who is in charge of ecologicaltransition at Paris City Hall, explains
that the panels are going on parts of theCanopée that are already opaque, exactly
(47:48):
where the architect intended them to go.
And here's something interesting.
About 20% of the solar energy producedwill be used directly by the public
buildings underneath the Canopée.
That includes places like thelibrary and community spaces.
Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo says thiswill be the largest solar power
(48:09):
station in central Paris and themost productive one in the city.
Paris wants to reach 20% of locallyproduced renewable energy by 2050.
Right now, it's only 7%, sothere's a long way to go.
But with 1,502 hours of sunshinein Paris in 2024, solar is
(48:30):
definitely part of the plan.
So let's talk about my sixweeks away from my desk.
You know, the life of a podcasterinvolves a lot of time at a desk, usually.
But the last six weeks, Idid very little of that.
First, there was the Boot Camp 2025.
That went great.
(48:51):
Elyse and I got to hang out andexplore the South West of France
with wonderful listeners for ninedays, and we saw some great stuff.
Everybody had a lovely time, and I'llpublish an episode about that soon.
Then six days after that, it wastime for my daughter's wedding.
We are very lucky that many visitorscame from my husband's family
in the US and many French familyfrom my side of the family as
(49:14):
well from all over France as well.
If one of your children has gottenmarried, you know it's a busy, busy time.
Thankfully, it all went wonderfully well.
It was a happy celebration, and I'mdelighted to have a new daughter, Melanie.
Now, French weddings are quitethe affair, and my girls went
all out, so it took all day.
(49:37):
But it was fantastic.
I won't go into details here becauseit would take too long, but perhaps,
we'll talk about it on the Zoom callwhere I'll have more time to chat,
but it's really an all-day thing.
Then a few days after the wedding,we went on a cruise to Norway.
That was my fault because Iwas turning 60 and I wanted to
go on a cruise to celebrate.
We went a couple of days ahead of time.
(49:59):
We spent a couple of days inCopenhagen before and another
couple of days after the cruise.
I had been to Copenhagenbefore but never for that long.
What a cool city.
We took a VoiceMap tour to get familiarwith the city, and it was a very good one.
It was one, that included... Itwas themed around Hans Christian
(50:20):
Andersen, the fairy tales writer,and I'm a geek, I love stories.
So I really enjoyed that.
And we also took a canal cruise.
What a beautiful canalthey have in Copenhagen.
We also took the train across thebay to Malmo in Sweden, because most
of my husband's ancestors are fromSweden, so he wanted to see that.
(50:41):
And then there was the cruise proper thattook us to Norway and some amazing fjords.
I had never seen anything like it.
I really, really loved it.
We were on the MSC Euribia because Iwanted to do a northern cruise, and
that's where there were cabins left.
It was a fine cruise, and I,like I said, I turned 60 on the
(51:02):
cruise, which was extra special.
Then today, my brother turned 65,and we had a great celebration
at his house in the mountains.
He and his wife throw thebest parties, honestly.
Several of his best childhoodfriends came, and it was fun to see
them because my brother's friendswere kind of my friends as well.
I mean, we hang out a lot,and yeah, it was just lovely.
(51:25):
And tomorrow, I'm off to spend fourdays in the Basque Country just
to go discover the Basque Country.
My husband cannot come alongbecause he has to work.
Originally, Elyse was going tocome along, but she had to cancel.
She had a last minute problem.
So I'm going anyway because I needto see every corner of France,
and I had blocked off the time andreserved the hotels and everything.
(51:48):
So it's happening, so I'mreally glad about that.
So that's my busy month.
By comparison, spending time at my deskis very, very quiet, but it's nice to have
a lot of excitement sometimes, isn't it?
But I do need to get out of herebecause I haven't packed my bag,
and it's past 10:00 PM already.
(52:08):
Where does the time go?
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan,
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, we'rediving into an intoxicating journey
through time as we explore therich history of perfume in France.
From its ancient roots to the glamourof Chanel and Dior, join us as Elyse
(52:30):
Rivin uncovers the fragrant tales thathave shaped France's national identity.
Don't miss out on this aromatic adventure.
And tune in for that episode.
That's a sure to leavea lasting impression.
It was really, really cool actually, yeah?
I have no interest in perfume, but shemade it really, really interesting.
(52:51):
She's wonderful that way.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
(53:12):
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode551, cinq cent cinquante et un.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent, and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Kim Cox about her enchanting
trip to France, including a visitto the reopened Notre-Dame de Paris,
(00:39):
exploring Parisian neighborhoods,winter markets, and hidden gems.
Are you planning a winter trip to France?
Now is the time to do it.
Then perhaps you'd like to indulgein some travel inspiration.
This episode is packed withtips and heartfelt experiences
that you won't want to miss.
This podcast is fueled by chocolatine,caffeine, and the generosity
(01:01):
of wonderful humans like you.
Maybe you've booked an itinerary consult,taken a VoiceMap tour, joined me in my
electric car, come to the boot camp,or sent a few euros my way on Patreon,
and I appreciate it more than you know.
Want to help me keepgoing and skip the ads?
There's a link for that in the show notes.
(01:24):
Visit joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And merci beaucoup.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Kim today, I'll
discuss a big solar project going onright in the heart of Paris, and I'll
update you on my crazy six weeks whenI was mostly away from my computer.
(01:45):
If you want all the links and thefull episode transcripts, you'll
find everything on the page thatlists all episodes by month at
joinusinfrance.com/episodes.
And if you'd like a handy summary ofthe conversation with all the useful
link, subscribe to the newsletterat joinusinfrance.com/newsletter.
(02:06):
That's the best way to stay in the loop.
Bonjour Kim Cox and welcometo Join Us in France.
Bonjour, Annie.
Maybe I should say welcome backbecause you were a boot camper.
Maybe you were on the boot camp episodes.
(02:29):
I was not on the episode, but I wasin the boot camp, my husband and I
were in the very first boot camp.
Wonderful.
Yes, it was a wonderful time.
And I'm thick in the middle ofplanning the next one, so...
Well, they're going to have so much fun.
Thank you.
All right, Kim, you hada recent trip to France.
You went to Paris and Strasbourg,and I want to hear about the
(02:53):
things you particularly enjoyedspending this time in France.
Well, the highlight had to be gettingto see the reopening of Notre Dame.
And, it was just... I would havebeen disappointed had we not been
able to get in, but it was easy.
It really was.
And I think the advice thatI would give is get the app.
(03:14):
Make sure you get the Notre Dameapp, because we knew before we came,
we were lucky and we were followingit on the news, and we knew that
it was going to be open about aweek or two before we got there.
We went to Strasbourg first,and then came to Paris, and we
were there during Christmas.
But we knew that it was going tobe opening, and were following the
(03:35):
news and saw that you could getyour tickets two days in advance.
And so I assumed that they would probablyopen them up at midnight, because I
kept... even prior to that time, Ihad the app and I would just kind of
play around with it and see what wasavailable just so I could get an idea.
And so, the two days before we wanted,so we visited on the 21st of December,
(03:59):
at midnight, the 18th, the night ofthe 18th, so the morning of the 19th,
I logged in and had my choice of times.
Wonderful.
We could have gone any time that day.
There were probably 10 times listed.
And I clicked on, I thinkwe went one o'clock in the
afternoon, and it was great.
When we got there, there was a longline for people who did not have
(04:22):
tickets and who were waiting to get in.
And I talked to somebody at thefront and they said it was about
a two-hour wait at that time.
Oof.
Yeah, that's a long time.
It is.
And it was raining, so it wasn't the best.
But with our reservation, we justwalked right up to the front door, went
through security, and walked right in.
Fantastic.
(04:43):
I would suggest doing that.
It might not be as long a wait inJanuary, February, that time of year,
maybe late in the day, early in the day.
But I imagine it'll get crowdedagain in the spring and summer.
Oh, I'm sure.
Spring and summer, lots and lots ofpeople are going to want to see it.
We can see that there's a huge interestin the cathedral, which makes sense.
(05:04):
It's gorgeous, right?
It was absolutely incredible.
I've been there eight or nine timesbefore because we've been to Paris many,
many times and every time we go... ButI guess I haven't been there... I've
been to Paris eight or nine times.
It's been closed the past few times,so maybe I've been four or five.
But when I walked in,it was just beautiful.
(05:27):
It was so bright.
It was funny because I enjoy architectureand history, and I've read so much about
the Gothic architecture and the flyingbuttresses, and they always say the flying
buttresses are to hold up the sides of thewalls so that they can let in the light.
And although I thought theywere beautiful and I loved the
architecture, I never really understoodletting in the light until now.
(05:50):
Because now you go in and thewindows are beautiful, and not just
the rose windows, but all of them.
They're the most beautiful blue.
and it was raining that dayand it was still very bright.
And they haven't changed anything.
They've just cleaned it.
Yeah.
So I know people are concernedthat it'll be a different place.
It's not a different place.
(06:10):
It's just brighter and cleaner.
And it was just absolutely gorgeous.
The things that I noticed too,the side chapels are all open now.
In the past, they were pretty dingyand some of them I even think they
used for storage or in disrepair.
Now they're all operational and clean.
The paintings have been cleaned.
(06:32):
There's one chapel that hasthe most beautiful blue ceiling
that I've ever seen, and it isjust... It's breathtaking now.
How long did you spend in there andhow long would you recommend people
spend inside of the cathedral?
It depends what you want to do.
I mean, it's a very, veryspecial place for me.
I think the very first placewe went the very first time we
(06:53):
visited Paris, and I just love it.
I'm not a particularly religiousperson, but I find peace there.
Whenever I'm in there, I sit downfor a moment and it occurs to me
that people came to pray for theirloved ones during the plague.
Of course, now we've allsurvived a plague too.
But I think about it and I think,"Well, if it worked out for
(07:14):
them, my problems will probablywork themselves out as well."
So it just sort of gives me some peace.
So I like to spend a littlemore time than most people.
You could go in and out in half anhour and get a really good sense of it.
But we probably spenteasily about an hour.
We might have spent more,but it was very crowded.
I will say it was very crowded.
Yeah.
(07:35):
And you can go into the crypt as well.
There's a bit of a fee for that.
The crypt is a collection of the,kind of the jewels of the cathedral.
The beautiful vestments and thingsthat the bishops of Paris have
collected over the centuries.
I've been down there before.
We didn't go this time.
Although, there is an area inthe back now where they do have
(07:58):
displayed the Crown of Thorns.
Oh, wow.
So we were lucky enough... Or youknow, supposedly, the Crown of Thorns.
Yeah.
We were able to see that aswell and that it, that chapel is
quite impressive even on its own.
All the way past the altar in the back.
Okay.
Yeah, and about getting tickets,I would say, it's going to get...
It's going to be fairly easy.
(08:20):
I'm going in January, it'sgoing to be fairly easy.
But it will get more difficultin May and et cetera.
But the fact that they don't letpeople just reserve up all the tickets
and then try to scalp them, whichis what they would do, you know?
That they would say, "Oh, skip theline at Notre Dame for 50 bucks,"
and lots of people would go for it.
(08:41):
The fact that it's just one day ortwo days before is actually a good
thing, because it's going to stopthat and, a lot of us, as we get
older, we kind of wake up in thenight perhaps to go to the bathroom.
That would be the time to check.
Get your tickets then!
Yes, yes, yes.
Get your tickets then.
(09:02):
Or like you mentioned, goeither early or late, you know?
And perhaps it's easier.
I don't know.
In May, I think it'sgoing to be mobbed again.
It's going to be lots and lots of people.
I would encourage the reservation system.
It did work well.
There were some folks out there sortof milling around talking to some
of the people in line suggestingthey could perhaps pay and get in.
(09:24):
Know that that's a scam.
Yes.
There are no tickets to be sold.
It's free!
Yes.
As a matter of fact, isn't it freeto go into all churches in France?
In France churches are free, whatthey charge you for sometimes is to
go see the treasure or the crypt,which is the same in Notre Dame.
Also, once they reopen the belltowers, they're not open yet,
(09:49):
but once they reopen those, youwill need a paid ticket for that.
So cathedrals themselvesare free in France.
I can't think of a single one whereI've ever had to pay anything to enter,
but you have to pay sometimes forthings that are adjacent to the church.
If someone is visiting and if someonesuggests that you can pay or online
(10:12):
or anything like that, know thatthat is not... That's not a thing.
That's a scam.
It is not a thing.
I hadn't heard about that, thankyou for mentioning it, because I'm
sure again some people will fallfor it or they wouldn't even try.
Yep.
Right.
All right, so the second thing,your second favorite thing that
you mention on your list isChristmas markets in Strasbourg.
(10:34):
Incredible.
Yeah?
Just beautiful.
Just beautiful.
They're everywhere.
It's not like there's justone place that you go.
We enjoy walking, so we would justset out and look at neighborhoods
and enjoy walking around, and itseems like every corner we'd turn,
we'd find a new Christmas market.
And they're all somewhatdifferent, which is wonderful.
(10:56):
They all have a littlebit of a different flair.
You'll come upon some where it, it'sheavily food-focused and they have
like picnic tables out and it looksas if almost the whole community is
out there having dinner together.
And it's wonderful.
And then others are more focusedon preps and Christmas ornaments,
or artisan types of products.
(11:17):
But it was just beautiful,we really enjoyed it.
How long did you spend?
We were in Strasbourg for three nights.
And just Strasbourg?
You didn't try to go do anything else?
We kind of wanted to.
We were going to try to go toColmar and maybe some other places,
but no, we just didn't have time.
One of the things I'm really learning andprobably as I get older on trips is I try
(11:40):
not to pack too much into it, because thenwhen I do that I don't enjoy anything.
It feels like it's work.
We really were trying to do just a,maybe a couple things a day in addition
to walking around and kind of gettinga feel for neighborhoods and so forth.
And it was just... it was fun to doit that way because it was relaxing.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
(12:01):
Now, you were in Strasbourgbefore you went to Paris, so
it was earlier December, right?
You arrived what day?
We were, actually flew into Munich andwe were in Munich for three nights.
I think we came on the 13th, 14th.
So we were in Strasbourgon the 17th and 18th.
Yes, that... For three nights.
Okay.
So pretty close to Christmas, really.
(12:23):
It was very close and it was lovely.
Yeah, but it must've been very busy.
Lots and lots of people, again.
It would get busy in the evening, inthe daytime you could still... I would
suggest if people really want to shop,the time to do that is in the daytime.
I think the market's open at 11:00 AMand that's a good time to actually...
If you want to talk to the peoplewho have their stand, that's a
(12:47):
really good time to do that....and do some shopping and so forth.
And then in the evening, that's a goodtime for kind of milling around and
having your vin chaud and just sort ofenjoying the... enjoying the sights.
Was it very cold this year in Strasbourg?
We were very lucky.
I mean, I'm a Californian,so yeah, it was cold, but...
(13:11):
Yeah.
We had the right clothingand it never stopped us.
I would say it was in, in Fahrenheit,the 40s, which wasn't bad.
No, it's really not bad.
The year we went to Strasbourg,it froze... It was freezing in
the middle of the day, you know?
So it was cold.
The thing in Strasbourg too that, I reallywasn't... didn't know about but very much
(13:34):
enjoyed were just walking the streets inthe evening and seeing the decorations
down the different streets and alleys.
And they were just beautiful.
Just gorgeous.
It's all decked out, isn't it?
It's like all the city is alldecked out ready for Christmas.
They are.
And everyone's in a good mood andvery friendly and it was wonderful.
(13:54):
And there's some wonderfulthings to do there.
I know we'd had some time together beforethe trip and you were, you graciously
shared some of your ideas and we wentto the City Museum, which was wonderful.
And we went on the boat cruise,which my husband affectionately
called the snooze cruise.
That's all right.
Well, if you were jet... No,you weren't jet lagged because
(14:15):
you had been to Munich first.
I think he, he was just tired.
But it was a nice little boat trip.
The thing that was really cool aboutit is that you get to go in a lock.
And we don't often get to do that,and you get to see how that works.
Like a little elevator to bring youup or down and that was really...
Yeah, so that depends on the tour.
(14:35):
Some of them don't, but I, I'mpretty sure most of them you
do get to go through the lock.
Yeah, and that was really cool.
It was fun.
We had a good time.
Wonderful.
All right.
So shopping for food and walking ourparisian neighborhood like a local.
That sounds fun.
Which... What was your Parisianneighborhood this time?
We stayed at a VRBO in the 15th...
(14:59):
Aha.
... and it's very much, very much aneighborhood, it's not a tourist area.
Yeah.
Wasn't it you that was... yourVRBO was on Rue du Commerce?
It was the street overRue des Entrepreneurs.
The Rue des Entrepreneurs.
Yes, yes, yes.
And it was a block away from Ruede Commerce, which was perfect.
(15:19):
Yeah, Rue du Commerce is fun, isn't it?
Yes.
We just so enjoyed walking up anddown the street and we adopted
several of the shops as our own, sowe made fast friends with the cheese,
the fromager, I never can say that.
Fromagere?
Fromagerie.
Thank you.
Fromagerie.
We made very good friends withhim and went there a few times
(15:41):
and got some lovely cheeses.
And of course at thepatisserie, the boulangerie,
then the wine shop, of course.
We loved doing that.
As a matter of fact, one of our favoritememories was on Christmas Eve, we had a
dinner out on Christmas Eve night, butwe knew that for Christmas Day, pretty
much everything was going to be closed.
So we wanted to, on ChristmasEve, go out and get our food that
(16:07):
we would have for Christmas Day.
So we went to about six or seven differentshops, just putting our meal together,
and we had one of those rolling cartsand just walked up and down the street
... and got our food and it... We just feltlike we were real parisians that day.
Yeah.
So your VRBO included a rolling cart?
(16:27):
It did.
That's a splendid idea.
It was very, very fun.
And one of the other places wefound that we enjoyed, we enjoyed
for hors d'oeuvres and also forone night we did, we did use it for
dinner, was Picard, the frozen food.
So tell me what you liked about that.
Well, first of all, it's likenothing we have in the United States.
(16:51):
I know somebody compared it to, like,maybe a Trader Joe's with just frozen
food, but it wasn't like that at all.
It was very, very high-end frozen food.
And you could get anything fromfrozen... just plain frozen vegetables
and frozen fish that you could,you know, make on your own and
make your own sauce and do whateveryou want, or a full prepared meal.
(17:13):
And all kinds of desserts and, I thinkthey're well known for their canapes,
the hors d'oeuvres, which were lovely.
Yep.
We had those with some champagne onChristmas Day and it was wonderful.
Anything you can think of, andit's very well... I would say it's
very high end, very well done.
They're well-packaged,they're never freezer burned.
(17:36):
The instructions on how to warmthem up or use the products are very
well researched, very well written.
It's just a well donefrozen kind of food place.
This year, I just got veganfoie gras from Picard.
It was my first time trying it,and it wasn't bad at all, you know?
(17:59):
It tasted very good.
Okay, I prefer the real thing.
But if you want to be nice to the ducks,then buy the frozen one at Picard.
You put it in the fridge todefrost for 24 hours and then
it's just perfect... you know?
And it's easy.
It was lovely.
And for I think two euro,I now have a Picard bag.
(18:22):
A little grocery bag.
And I now use it at home becauseit brings back nice memories.
Yes, yes.
And a lot of European countrieshave kind of specialty frozen foods.
In Spain it's called La Sirena.
It's also very good, but Picard doesa really, really, really good job
with, like, traditional dishes thatyou can warm up at home, easily.
(18:46):
And at Christmastime, they go allout with the lobsters, the shrimp,
all the seafood, the canapes,all sorts of really good stuff.
Oh, they had so much there.
It was incredible.
Stuffed turkey, stuffed pintade.
The one, the, what's it called?
Triduck, triduck... the one thathas the three different meats.
(19:07):
They had that.
They had everything.
Yeah,
It's hard not to buy oneof everything at Picard.
I know.
I wanted to, but I'm like, "Okay,you're only here a few days.
You're not going to eat it all."
That's right.
That's right.
I actually did leave an item in thefreezer and told our host, I said,
"Well, we didn't get to one. It's in thefreezer. No one's touched it." And she
wrote back and said she couldn't wait.
(19:29):
Oh, yeah.
French people go to Picard all the time.
This is not a touristy thing.
This is... Actually, most touristsprobably don't know about it.
So Picard is a... is a good tip.
Well, there were the shops everywhere.
From where we stayed, we musthave been close to at least three
of them within walking distance.
And so when we would take our walks,I would see them again, and we were
(19:50):
laughing about it because I said,"Well, I'm sure they've been here
around us every time we visited,but I've never noticed them before."
Well, but because the 15th is a... areal neighborhood, like a real, where
people live they have more of them.
If you've had a long day at work,but you don't want to eat out, you
stop at Picard on your way home,you'll eat a delicious dinner, and
(20:11):
you haven't had to do very much work.
And it's not that expensive either.
The prices are reasonable.
They really are.
I mean, for a family, it would bewonderful to do that easily, and
it's much cheaper than eating out.
That's for sure.
Ah, yep, it is.
Well, the free ad for Picard is over.
Hey, they're not payingus to say any of this.
(20:32):
This is really what we think.
You enjoyed cafe cultureeven in the winter.
I did.
It was our... We'd never been toEurope at all in... Well, no, I'd
been to England in the winter.
But I'd never been toFrance in the winter.
And I was kind of a little bit worried,because I thought, "Well, it's not going
to be as much fun as it is in the summer,or in the spring or the fall," because
(20:55):
we enjoy walking so much, and gettingout, and sitting in the cafe and watching
the world go by, and that kind of thing.
And I thought we would miss outon that, but we didn't at all.
The cafes are booming, even in the winter.
There are people who sit outside,even when it's freezing, and they're
generally the people who want to beout there because they want to smoke.
(21:15):
Yep.
But there was one day that, I thinkit was Christmas Day actually, when we
were walking around, there was a cafeopen, and we stopped, and it was pretty
warm, so we just sat outside for afew minutes, and it was kind of nice.
I will say, that I had not spentvery much time in the cafes inside
because I've always been outsidebecause the weather's been good.
But inside is lovely.
(21:35):
Some of the places they'rebeautiful, they were beautifully
decorated for the holidays.
And they try to sit you by thewindow anyway, so you get to, to
have that experience, but you'renot freezing, and the bonus is
there's no one smoking inside.
That's right.
That's a big plus.
So
it was wonderful.
(21:56):
We had a great time.
I went to... we would go somewhereand usually stop at a cafe for lunch
maybe or just to get a cup of coffeeor a glass of wine or something, and
sometimes that would turn into a meal.
Yeah.
But it was wonderful just sittingthere, we got the same experience, I
think, as sitting outside when we satby the window and watched everyone,
(22:18):
particularly with the holidays, walkingby with, scurrying around getting
their things, and it was wonderful.
That's fantastic.
The next thing is the StrasbourgHistorical Museum, but you already
mentioned that you like that, so we'lljust move on to the Resistance Museum in
Paris, which is also in the 15e, I think?
Yes.
It was very, very well done.
(22:40):
I had not really, I wasn'treally familiar with that.
I believe you had mentioned it, because,you know, when you've been to Paris
many, many times, the first few times,you do kind of the big hits, right?
Then you start sort of delvinginto it a little bit further.
And this is one I'd not gone to before.
It looks like it's been redone recently.
Oh, it's not a very old museum,so this is the original.
(23:01):
They haven't redone it yet.
I think it's maybe 10 yearsold, no more than that.
It's very moving, andvery, very informative.
Everything is in French andEnglish, so it's easy to follow.
The thing I really like is that it takestwo people who were important during
the Resistance and kind of followstheir lives throughout the museum.
(23:25):
So you get to follow these two individualswho are different, very different in
focus, but you get to follow them fromthe beginning of their lives at the
start, and then you follow them throughthe different time periods that they're
presenting, and you can see what...
So it's Jean Moulin.
Who's the other one?
I can't remember.
(23:45):
Jean Moulin and then another...
But, it's fascinating.
And then they show allof these other people.
They make it very human.
It's not just like going to amuseum and seeing the facts.
It's very human because they givea lot of information about specific
individuals and what they did duringthe Resistance, their role, how it
ended for them, that type of thing.
(24:06):
So, I found it very moving.
I wouldn't take little children.
I don't think it wouldreally be that appropriate.
But I'd say anybody over, you know, 12.
Yeah, yeah.
Did you get to go into the bunker as well?
We did not.
We weren't in the mood towalk down and up again, but...
Yeah.
So in that museum, at specifictimes, one of the tour guides takes
(24:29):
people down to the actual bunker.
It wasn't ever used for protectionfrom bombing really, but it was used
for meetings for the Resistance.
And so it was an important place.
It's a bunch of stepsand then cement rooms.
And there's a place for a bicycle wherethey could do a pump to get fresh air into
(24:51):
the... into the... it was interesting,I don't remember what all I saw, but
it was really interesting, I thought.
So if you have a chance, it mightbe good to go there as well.
It was very fascinating.
I think sometimes we don't realizethe contributions that were made by
the individuals who were part of theResistance, and how, you know, there
were contributions large and small.
(25:12):
But, you know, we may not bewhere we are today without it.
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
You did a walk, guided walkon VoiceMap of Strasbourg.
How did that go?
It was great.
We had a good time.
You should do one becauseyours would be wonderful.
But we did because you had introduced meto VoiceMap through your tours, I had the
(25:38):
confidence to go in and try another one.
We did that, and it was wonderful.
Both my husband and I, we had theearbuds, and he had one and I had one,
so we could listen at the same time.
Right, that works well, doesn't it?
I mean...
It did.
It really did.
And we walked around the town.
It was probably a couple hours.
And you would stop it and go dosomething different for a while.
(26:00):
But it was great.
I loved it.
It gave us all the history and theinformation, and I heartily recommend it.
Yeah, VoiceMap tours arejust good, most of them.
I did one once that I thought, "Eh."But honestly, most of the people
who start doing that kind of workbecause it's... it's hard work doing
it... they really want to sharesomething special about their city.
(26:23):
So I think it's a good thing to do.
It is a good... It is good.
And then if you go offtrack, it tells you.
Well, you hear, you hear the voiceof Gandalf telling you that, "All who
wander are not lost, but you might be."
Yes.
"But you might be."
Yes, yes.
I try to avoid that voice.
(26:43):
So as soon as he comes on,I'm like, "Oh, what'd I do?"
You enjoyed the Carnavalet Museum.
Was this your first time goingback, or your first time ever?
It was my first time ever.
We had not been.
Now, that one I know has beenredone recently, and I was anxious
to see it, primarily because ofthe architecture of the building,
(27:04):
which is an old mansion, I believe.
And it's really, it's really beautiful.
But yeah, it's, that's... It'svery well done, too, in that you
start at the bottom, and it'skind of cool when you go in.
There's just all these different signs.
Yeah.
Yeah, the entrance is cool, I think.
I like it.
Yeah, all these different sort of, kindsof signs that you'd see on the streets
(27:26):
of Paris, and they put them in there.
They're old signs.
And then you go through the museum.
You can go downstairs where it has, like,almost down to prehistoric times, and
see what the area was like at that time.
And then you can just followit chronologically as you go
upstairs, all the way, past theFrench Revolution and into today.
The whole top level with the FrenchRevolution was fascinating to me.
(27:49):
But it goes beyond that.
It goes to a little bit about France,Paris under the Occupation, and things
like that, and the '70s and I think it'sa beautiful museum if you have time.
And it's free.
Like, you know.
So people who are on a budget, even youngpeople... You know, sometimes when you're
younger, you're going with kids, you havetwo or three kids in tow, you're like,
(28:10):
"Oh, that's going to be a lot of money."Well, this one, it's not a lot of money.
Sometimes it's wise to book atime when you're... So you need
a free ticket to enter at times.
Not always.
Sometimes they let people just right in,so... But if you go in May, June, July...
We just walked in that day.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it just depends.
But sometimes there's a lineoutside, sometimes there isn't.
(28:33):
It's, you know... But it's worth going.
It's right in the Marais, which alsohas many other very interesting museums.
But this one is definitelya favorite of mine.
And the little cafe area.
I don't know if you sat in the cafeat all, but it's very nice as well.
We walked through the cafe.
It was very nice.
We were probably there acouple of hours actually.
(28:54):
And then we came out, and just asyou said, that area is booming.
And that was probably one of the daysthat we stopped and had lunch at one
of the cafes we just happened upon.
And it was so much fun.
Yeah.
because that area is so lively.
Yeah.
I think, because you've been to Parismany times you probably understand this,
but people need to think about the factthat they don't really need to plan every
(29:18):
meal that they're going to have in Paris.
No.
No, no, no, no.
If you're going to do somethingspecial, so for example, on Christmas
Eve, we had reserved in advance,probably a month in advance even.
The rest of the time, wemade a couple reservations.
But the most fun we had was just,there was a local café even by
(29:39):
where we were staying that, youknow, probably was, I mean, it's
nothing special, but it was just fun.
We had dinner there acouple of nights, actually.
Yeah.
Becomes your cantine.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Yeah.
And the people start to knowyou, and everyone's very
friendly, and we enjoyed it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When you made thosereservations, how did you do it?
(29:59):
Did you call them?
Did you email them?
Did you use an app?
Oh, that was a little morecomplicated than it needed to be.
I tried to do it online through the,I think, through The Fork, but for
some reason, it wasn't going through.
I kept getting error messages.
So I ended up having to call them.
But that worked out well.
You know, one morning here inthe US I called, and it was,
(30:22):
you know, in the evening there.
So they took my credit card overthe phone and had the reservation.
But it worked beautifully.
We got there.
It was a beautiful meal,that was a big highlight.
One of the things I would say aboutvisiting during holidays, and I'm
sure this would apply to Easter orany other big holiday as well, Paris
(30:44):
is such a big city, there are alwayspeople there who are not celebrating
your specific holiday, who are working.
So we noticed that the people at therestaurant, they probably were not
Christians, so they weren't celebratingChristmas, but they, you know, they
were working very hard and happy to...very friendly and happy to welcome us.
.The drivers when we took... I think we took an Uber home and, you know,
(31:07):
you would notice there, there arepeople who probably celebrate a
different holiday at a different time.
Sure.
Sure.
Yeah, and for special occasions like aChristmas Eve dinner or a Christmas Day
dinner or something, they would almostalways take your credit card because they
don't want to have no-shows, you know.
So they will... And some Michelinrestaurants do this as well.
(31:29):
You can't reserve unless you agree to 50bucks per person and then they'll charge
you however much you actually spent.
But if you don't show up, they'lltake the 50 bucks anyway, you know.
Yeah, and I can understandthat in this situation.
I mean, there was one seating.
It was clear.
It was a four-course dinner.
(31:50):
I'm sure they, you know, theywant to make sure that they're
going to have the funds there.
When we sat there, itwas quite delightful.
When we were sitting at a table and to ourleft was a family that was celebrating.
They were speaking Spanish.
And to our right was a familyand they were speaking French.
And then behind us wasa group of Italians.
And so by the end of the night,we were all wishing each other a
(32:14):
Merry Christmas in our own language.
Wonderful.
Wonderful.
That's great.
You also enjoyed the Pantheon.
Was it your first timeat the Pantheon as well?
It was my first time.
It's surprising I hadn't been to thePantheon because the very first time
we went to Paris with... Gosh, itwas probably, like, 30 years ago now.
(32:34):
My husband and I actuallystayed in that area.
We stayed in the Latin Quarter in a littlehotel by Cardinal Lemoine, the Cardinal
Lemoine Metro stop right down there.
And so we frequented that area, butwe'd never gotten into the Pantheon.
And I think probably because the weatherwas always good, we were always outside.
And this time, it was like, "Okay, let'sdo something inside." And we went in.
(32:58):
And it was really, really cool, theupstairs portion you can get like
a little audio guide and listen toinformation about the artwork and so
forth and that's quite interesting.
I did some of it and then sortof lost a little interest.
But definitely, somethingthat folks would enjoy.
And then you go into the cryptarea and there are maps everywhere,
(33:22):
and if there's a particularperson you want to visit, you can.
I was quite excited based on the podcastepisode, I wanted to see Josephine Baker.
And did that, and some others.
So yeah, it's a pretty cool thing.
It was sort of funny because wewere laughing going, "Oh, here we
are at a crypt at Christmastime."But, it was kind of fun.
(33:45):
I like the Pantheon.
I think it's a wonderful place to visit.
And of course since you were visitingin December, in Paris it rains a
lot, especially this year it rained.
Last year, I mean, it rained a lot.
So you really need to planthings that you can do indoors.
You do.
You do.
And then of course, we were rightthere, so we got to visit some of the
(34:07):
places that we, we... Every time we goto Paris, we always go to the little
square or the circle, that was justdown from our hotel the first time.
It's the Place de la Contrescarpe.
Oh, yes.... beautiful little plaza.
It is.
We always go down thereand go to the café.
It's called Delma's.
And visit and remember.
(34:28):
We always take a picture so that we havethe same picture that we had, of course.
I love it.
That's great.
We're looking a little differentthan we did the first time.
Well, you've aged a bit, but that's okay.
You haven't aged since lasttime I saw you, so that's good.
You went to the Galerie Vivienneand the covered passages?
We did.
We spent some time doing that as wellas going to the Galeries Lafayette
(34:52):
and Printemps, to see the decorations.
Yeah, it's very festive at Christmastime.
It's beautiful.
They were very different.
I would say the Galerie Lafayette,of course, inside has the beautiful
tree in the middle that you canvisit, and then Printemps, is the
one, I think, that has the outside.
Yes, Printemps is all thewindows shopping kind of thing.
(35:14):
It's beautiful.
It is beautiful.
And one of the things that they do thatI thought was lovely is they have little
steps that the children can get up on.
And make sure that they can see aswell, and that, that was lovely.
They don't really have much decorationinside, but there's this outside.
And then going to the coveredpassages was very fun because that
was just so very different, andnot anything I had done before.
(35:37):
And again, somethingwonderful to do in the winter.
Yeah.
And they're pretty close.
Galerie Vivienne is pretty closeto the Printemps and Haussmann.
Wonderful.
All right.
So you went to the Louvre.
Ah, but this time, you went late.
Do tell.
I would say this is a tip that wouldsave everybody a lot of hassle.
(35:58):
If you go to the Louvre, and we'vebeen before, of course, but haven't
been in many, many years, so we thoughtit would be kind of fun to go, and
we thought, "Well, maybe it won'tbe as crowded this time of year."
So we made a reservation to go.
They're open late, Ithink, two nights a week.
I know Friday night is one of them.
I believe the other may be Wednesday.
Oh, that would be new.
(36:19):
Maybe, maybe.
But they're open late on Friday night.
They're open until nine o'clock.
And so we made a reservation at 7:00, andwe got there, and there was no one there.
I mean, it was just... We walked upto the Mona Lisa, no line, nothing.
We're in the Grand Gallery taking picturesof each other and we can... You know,
there's not a million people in there.
(36:41):
So it, it was wonderful.
I would heartily suggest goingat that time because it's
just so empty and wonderful.
Yeah.
I was just doing an itinerary consultwith people who are just going to
be in Paris three days, but theyinclude Friday, Saturday, Sunday.
So okay, this is what you do on Fridays,what you do on Saturdays, what you
do on Sunday, you know, because theyalso wanted to walk my food tour.
(37:05):
And that's lovely if you can walk it onSunday morning because there's actually
an extra little outdoor market plusthe whole shopping street, anyway.
Paris is wonderful, but if you goat the right time, it's even better.
Definitely.
This is our second time that we'vegone in the evening like that.
One time, we were there, and itwas even in the summer, it was even
(37:26):
in the summer because our wholefamily was there, and we went in the
evening, it would've been in June.
And it was not crowded at, even inJune, at late at night like that.
So, I would say it's just the best.
And the other thing is, you can go laterlike that on a Friday night, and let's
say you're there till 8:30, nine o'clock,when you leave, you can still have dinner.
(37:50):
Of course, yeah.
Because the cafés will be open.
And I know that's what we did.
We went back to the 15th nearour apartment, and just went
into the café and had a, for us,a little bit of a later dinner.
But it was packed.
Yeah, people are out.
Right, right.
So don't think that, you know,you have to eat at five o'clock
(38:11):
or something if you do that.
Yeah, that would be abit early, wouldn't it?
Absolutely.
So overall, what sort of trip was this?
Did you learn anything?
You have recommendation, things thatyou want to point out to people that
you learned that you wish to share?
I would say, winter is the perfect time togo to France because it's not as crowded.
(38:36):
I mean, Paris doesn't get that coldreally, I don't think, normally.
And I don't think it usually snows,it might be in the 40s, it might rain.
Yeah, rain, yeah.
It might rain.
But as long as you're prepared forit and you have the correct clothing,
you're not going to... It's not, youknow, you're not going to Iceland.
No, no.
(38:57):
And there's still plenty to do.
So I would say Paris is a good time to go.
This time, because we stayed in anot-so-touristy area, we really did
feel like we were getting to be a littlebit part of the community for a week.
And because it wasn't so touristy,I think the local merchants and
so forth spend more time... That'sthe other thing I would say.
(39:18):
I think everyone... I putthis in my report too.
We all need to stop people whenthey say the French are rude.
I know sometimes when people saythings like that, I just kind of
let it go because I think, "Oh, youhave no idea." But you need to be
proactive and just say, "You know what?
That is just not true."
Because people are people everywhere inthe world, and there are people who are
(39:40):
rude and there are people who are lovely.
But as long as you treat peoplewith kindness and respect, I
think most people want to helpyou and are very, very pleasant.
We made some friends on thistrip, so I, I would say...
That's great.
Yeah.
It's great just to take the timeto talk to people and meet them.
Every time I would try my littlebit of French, they would ask if
(40:01):
I'd like them to speak English.
And so, it was...
That's all right.
Don't take it personally.
Something you didn't like very much, youdidn't love the boat tour in Strasbourg.
That's funny because I really enjoyed it.
But see, it's just a personal,like, perhaps I was in the
mood for a boat tour that day.
(40:21):
Who knows?
You were tired maybe.
You needed the rest.
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
You can just sit there and like...
and then you mentioned thatLa Defense Christmas market
is really nothing special.
I would have to agree.
It's a shopping thing.
Yeah.
it's really, it's not... Idon't think it's worth the time.
My husband made a comment, it wasunfortunate, I guess it was unfair
(40:43):
maybe to the Paris Christmas marketsthat we had been to Strasbourg first.
Yes.
Because my husband, the way hedescribed it was that the Strasbourg
Christmas markets were just thebest, just beautiful, well done,
just what you would imagine.
And then he said, "Well, Paris,they're just too busy being Paris."
(41:06):
Just don't tell them.
Don't tell them that there's othertowns that can do it better than them.
They will get annoyed.
But yeah, I would say, the Christmasmarkets in general in Paris were not
as... Of course they're not as good.
I mean, they're... But the LaDefense one is very commercial.
Maybe if you're a young person and you'relooking for kind of an evening out, that
(41:31):
maybe is, you know, has loud music andmaybe a little more rowdy, might be fun.
Yeah.
So it sounds like you hada relaxing trip to France.
I mean, sounds like you reallyenjoyed yourselves and didn't
stress out about anything.
No, not at all.
Just kind of let, let it go.
The only thing I was stressed out aboutwere getting those Notre Dame tickets.
(41:52):
But after that I was good.
And yeah, it was very, very funand I can't wait to go back.
The thing I learned most I think wasthat no matter how many times I go back,
there's still 100 things I want to do.
Paris is endless.
You can live there and not see everything.
Or you want to go back, or you just like,"Oh, that was fun. I want to do that
(42:15):
again and again and again," you know?
Well, like, for example, even in NotreDame itself, and I'm excited the next time
I go you'll have your VoiceMap tour, yournew tour, and I would like to take that.
But one of the things you can do onthe app, and I wish I had done this,
but I'll do this the next time, whenyou have the Notre Dame app, you can
go on there and you can look at all...they give you a little bit of history
of each of the pieces of art in there.
(42:37):
Nice.
And that's one thing I'dlike to do next time.
Next time I'll go and maybe I'll do alittle research and look at the artwork,
and as I walk around have a greaterappreciation for what each piece is.
Oh, that's cool.
I hadn't noticed that they do that.
That's great that it'sincluded in the Notre Dame app.
That's really cool.
It's right on there, so.
Fantastic.
Well, Kim, you are a delight to talk to.
(42:58):
I always enjoy spending time with you.
Thank you very much for sharing your trip.
And well, come back.
Definitely.
We're already starting to make plans.
And I can't wait.
And I'll look forward tohearing your new VoiceMap app.
And as always, it'swonderful to hear your voice.
So thank you so much and hope everyonegets to see Notre Dame very, very soon.
(43:20):
And it is an absolute treat.
Thank you so much.
Merci, Kim.
Au revoir.
Merci.
Au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinusAnd a special shout-out this
(43:45):
week to my new Join Us in Francechampions, K. Hope, Heather Addison,
Robin, Cathy Georgopoulos, ShirleyCheng, Jennifer Jerzyk, Lisa
Woods Yarnell, and Julie Lynch.
And thank you Beth Murphy andChuba for editing your pledge up.
(44:06):
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3a month, but if you can afford it,
I'd love to have you pledge moreso you have access to more rewards.
Go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elyseart.
(44:28):
Patrons, our next Zoom callsare taking place next weekend,
June 21st and 22nd of 2025.
It's been a long time since we chattedbecause I've been mostly away from
my computer, like I mentioned before.
More on that in a second.
Let me read you some reviewsof my VoiceMap tours this week.
"This is my second VoiceMap inParis from Annie Sargent. She is
(44:51):
thorough and educational. I highlyrecommend this tour if you want
in-depth info about the Eiffel Tower."
About my Montmartre tour, "Amazing.
The instructions for directionswere very clear and easy to follow.
The history was narratedvery structuredly.
I recommend wholeheartedly."
About my Saint-Germain-des-Préstour, "I listened to this tour in
(45:13):
preparation for a recent trip to Paris.
Annie is engaging and entertaining host.
I really enjoyed the historicalwarm-up she provides.
The tour is well done andinformative, but not overwhelming.
It was the perfect preparation forvisiting these sites in person.
VoiceMap is like taking a privatetour with a human guide who lets
(45:33):
you stop whenever you want, picks upagain at your leisure, or even goes
to a different point on the map." Youcannot do that with a live guide, okay?
Podcast listeners get a big discount forbuying these tours from my website, and
it's better for me as well because I getto keep more of the money that you pay
instead of giving it to Apple or Google.
(45:55):
But if you buy it from me, it's a manualprocess, it's going to take minimum 24
hours, sometimes a little bit longer.
To use your code, open VoiceMap, tapTour Codes at the bottom right, enter
the code, and download the tour.
You don't have to use yourtour credit immediately.
It just sits in youraccount until you're ready.
Want to use it on a different device?
(46:16):
Just log into your account.
You can listen in virtual playbackfrom anywhere in the world.
Perfect if Paris is notin your immediate plans.
Take me in your pocket with VoiceMap.
And if you're planning a trip toFrance and want expert help, you can
hire me as your itinerary consultant.
It's a busy season.
Book early at joinusinfrance.com/boutiqueand I will enjoy chatting
(46:41):
with you about your trip.
Let's talk about a big solarenergy project happening
right in the heart of Paris.
The Canopée des Halles, that modern glassand steel structure you see when you visit
Les Halles, where one of my VoiceMap toursis, it's about to get a major eco upgrade.
(47:02):
By January 2026, they'll be installing1,200 solar panels on its roof.
These panels will cover2,200 square meters.
That's a lot of surface dedicated torenewable energy in central Paris.
This project has been inthe works for a while.
In fact, when the Canopée wasdesigned, they had already planned
(47:24):
for solar panels to be added later.
Now it's finally happening, and it'sall part of Paris's climate action plan.
The budget is 715,000 euros.
Dan Lert, who is in charge of ecologicaltransition at Paris City Hall, explains
that the panels are going on parts of theCanopée that are already opaque, exactly
(47:48):
where the architect intended them to go.
And here's something interesting.
About 20% of the solar energy producedwill be used directly by the public
buildings underneath the Canopée.
That includes places like thelibrary and community spaces.
Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo says thiswill be the largest solar power
(48:09):
station in central Paris and themost productive one in the city.
Paris wants to reach 20% of locallyproduced renewable energy by 2050.
Right now, it's only 7%, sothere's a long way to go.
But with 1,502 hours of sunshinein Paris in 2024, solar is
(48:30):
definitely part of the plan.
So let's talk about my sixweeks away from my desk.
You know, the life of a podcasterinvolves a lot of time at a desk, usually.
But the last six weeks, Idid very little of that.
First, there was the Boot Camp 2025.
That went great.
(48:51):
Elyse and I got to hang out andexplore the South West of France
with wonderful listeners for ninedays, and we saw some great stuff.
Everybody had a lovely time, and I'llpublish an episode about that soon.
Then six days after that, it wastime for my daughter's wedding.
We are very lucky that many visitorscame from my husband's family
in the US and many French familyfrom my side of the family as
(49:14):
well from all over France as well.
If one of your children has gottenmarried, you know it's a busy, busy time.
Thankfully, it all went wonderfully well.
It was a happy celebration, and I'mdelighted to have a new daughter, Melanie.
Now, French weddings are quitethe affair, and my girls went
all out, so it took all day.
(49:37):
But it was fantastic.
I won't go into details here becauseit would take too long, but perhaps,
we'll talk about it on the Zoom callwhere I'll have more time to chat,
but it's really an all-day thing.
Then a few days after the wedding,we went on a cruise to Norway.
That was my fault because Iwas turning 60 and I wanted to
go on a cruise to celebrate.
We went a couple of days ahead of time.
(49:59):
We spent a couple of days inCopenhagen before and another
couple of days after the cruise.
I had been to Copenhagenbefore but never for that long.
What a cool city.
We took a VoiceMap tour to get familiarwith the city, and it was a very good one.
It was one, that included... Itwas themed around Hans Christian
(50:20):
Andersen, the fairy tales writer,and I'm a geek, I love stories.
So I really enjoyed that.
And we also took a canal cruise.
What a beautiful canalthey have in Copenhagen.
We also took the train across thebay to Malmo in Sweden, because most
of my husband's ancestors are fromSweden, so he wanted to see that.
(50:41):
And then there was the cruise proper thattook us to Norway and some amazing fjords.
I had never seen anything like it.
I really, really loved it.
We were on the MSC Euribia because Iwanted to do a northern cruise, and
that's where there were cabins left.
It was a fine cruise, and I,like I said, I turned 60 on the
(51:02):
cruise, which was extra special.
Then today, my brother turned 65,and we had a great celebration
at his house in the mountains.
He and his wife throw thebest parties, honestly.
Several of his best childhoodfriends came, and it was fun to see
them because my brother's friendswere kind of my friends as well.
I mean, we hang out a lot,and yeah, it was just lovely.
(51:25):
And tomorrow, I'm off to spend fourdays in the Basque Country just
to go discover the Basque Country.
My husband cannot come alongbecause he has to work.
Originally, Elyse was going tocome along, but she had to cancel.
She had a last minute problem.
So I'm going anyway because I needto see every corner of France,
and I had blocked off the time andreserved the hotels and everything.
(51:48):
So it's happening, so I'mreally glad about that.
So that's my busy month.
By comparison, spending time at my deskis very, very quiet, but it's nice to have
a lot of excitement sometimes, isn't it?
But I do need to get out of herebecause I haven't packed my bag,
and it's past 10:00 PM already.
(52:08):
Where does the time go?
My thanks to podcast editorsAnne and Christian Cotovan,
who produced the transcripts.
Next week on the podcast, we'rediving into an intoxicating journey
through time as we explore therich history of perfume in France.
From its ancient roots to the glamourof Chanel and Dior, join us as Elyse
(52:30):
Rivin uncovers the fragrant tales thathave shaped France's national identity.
Don't miss out on this aromatic adventure.
And tune in for that episode.
That's a sure to leavea lasting impression.
It was really, really cool actually, yeah?
I have no interest in perfume, but shemade it really, really interesting.
(52:51):
She's wonderful that way.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
(53:12):
no derivatives license.
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