April 27, 2025 • 54 mins
Have you ever dreamed of leaving it all behind and Living the Dream in France? In this episode of the Join Us in France Travel Podcast, titled Living the Dream: Moving from Australia to Paris, Burgundy, and Provence, Annie Sargent talks with Alexandra Lalak, an Australian travel and food writer who made the big move to France.
Get the podcast ad-free
Alexandra first landed in Paris, thinking she’d stay for just two years. But she fell in love with French life—and a Frenchman—and never left. She later moved to Burgundy, where she discovered the beauty of wine country and the joys of a slower, more rural lifestyle. Now, she’s living in Provence, enjoying sunshine, local markets, and everything the Mediterranean lifestyle has to offer.
In this relaxed, friendly chat, Annie and Alexandra dive into what it’s really like to live in France. They talk about everyday life in French villages, exploring Provence, shopping at local markets, and discovering French wine from small producers. Alexandra also shares practical advice for those considering a move to France or planning a visit to places like Avignon, Luberon, and Nuits-Saint-Georges.
Thinking about Living the Dream in France? This episode is packed with insights and tips about traveling, moving, and truly enjoying the best of French life.
Don’t forget to subscribe to Join Us in France for more real stories and expert advice about traveling in and living in France.
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
This is Join Us in France, episode543, cinq cent quarante-trois.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withAlexandra Lalak, an Australian travel
(00:36):
and food writer living in France.
Join me as we explore herjourney from Australia to Paris,
Burgundy, and finally Provence.
Discover her love for Frenchculture, cuisine, and the beautiful
landscapes of Burgundy and Provence.
Alex shares valuable tipsfor anyone dreaming of moving
to France or just visiting.
(00:57):
This episode is filled withinsights on French wine,
local markets, and the serene,fulfilling Mediterranean lifestyle.
Tune in for an inspiring andinformative conversation.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
(01:20):
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
Southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that at myboutique: JoinUsinFrance.com/boutique.
And remember Patreon supporters get thepodcast ad-free as soon as it's ready.
Click on the link in the show notesto enjoy this Patreon reward for as
(01:42):
little as three dollars per month.
And I'd like to remind you that to seethe show notes for this episode and
the transcript for this episode, youneed to go to JoinUsinFrance.com/543.
That's the numeral 5-4-3.
(02:02):
For the magazine part of the podcasttoday after my chat with Alexandra,
I'll discuss changes coming to theAirbnb market in France that are
going to affect visitors as well.
(02:23):
Bonjour, Alex Lalak, andwelcome to Join Us in France.
Thank you so much, Annie.
It's lovely to be with you.
Wonderful to talk to you.
We have a lot of fun topics to discuss.
You live in France, and youwent from Paris to Burgundy.
So, we're going to talk a lotabout moving to France, how to
(02:44):
find great places in France.
You're a travel writer as well,so we're going to talk about that.
And if you have, you know, suggestionsfor people who are looking to visit
Burgundy, and all of that good stuff.
So, why don't you introduce yourself andtell us a little bit about what you do?
Sure.
I'm an Australian food and travel writer,and I'm currently living in the South
(03:06):
of France, but as you mentioned, I did,I was going to say did some time, that
makes it sound bad, but I spent some timein Burgundy, which was amazing actually.
But yeah, my France story began inParis originally, I would say six
or seven years ago, I lose track.
I first moved to France, I thinkit had always been a little
dream of mine to live in Paris,I think as it is for many people.
(03:29):
And I thought I would move to Paris formaybe two years, I had in my mind as a
sort of time, I thought that would be anice amount of time to spend in Paris.
But I, to put it simply really, Iwas seduced by France, and I was
also seduced by a Frenchman, Ishould probably mention as well.
Yeah.
Who is now my husband, so...
Yes, yes, yes.
(03:50):
That story ended well.
Good.
It wasn't just my wonderful husband whotook me in, I really, I just fell in love
with France and I fell in love with thelife here, much more than I expected
actually, when I first moved here.
Yeah.
I thought Paris would be beautiful and Ithought living here would be lovely, but
I've really found that I love the way oflife and the way that the French people
(04:11):
approach life and the philosophies, andthe quality of life that we enjoy here.
So, that's one of thereasons why I'm still here.
Yeah.
And your husband is fromwhich part of France?
His family are from, originally fromthe Loire, just outside of Le Mans.
But he actually grew up in the US.
Oh.
He's French American.
He's actually French Peruvian,but he grew up in the US.
(04:32):
So, we've got quite a mix ofnationalities going on in our household.
Wow.
So does he have Frenchnationality as well?
He does, yes.
Okay.
So you don't have a lot of problemswith visas and things like that?
No, I've been doing my own visa,now that we're married, I've
changed to one connected to him.
But no, it hasn't been an issue.
And he, as a Frenchcitizen, he has no problems.
(04:53):
And we have a little baby, alittle Frenchman of our own, so
he obviously, he was born here,so he's a French citizen as well.
Oh, congratulations.
How old is your baby?
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
He's 17 months.
Leonardo.
Ooh.
Yeah.
Yeah, he has a lot of energy.
Yes, I bet.
Yeah.
And is currently navigating.
Is he walking yet?
(05:13):
Oh, he is.
He is running.
Running, climbing.
He was quite an early walker,so he gets around a lot.
And he's sort of navigating thetwo languages at the moment, so
he's just on the cusp of speaking,so that's been quite fun as well.
Wonderful.
Well, that's going to keep you verybusy for the foreseeable future.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
(05:34):
Okay.
So you mentioned that you werein Burgundy, but you moved away
from Burgundy to go to Provence?
Mm-hmm.
Tell us a little bit more about that.
What are the things that people need toknow about these two parts of France, when
they're considering a place to move to?
And Paris as well.
I mean, you've lived in all three.
Yeah.
I think for me personally, so as Isaid, I moved to Paris because it had
(05:57):
always been a little dream of mine.
I have to say actually I'd always, likea lot of people, had a little dream of
living in Provence very down as well.
I think the first time we all read AYear in Provence, you know, the Peter
Mayle classic, I think I just sort ofalways dreamed of being in that area.
But my husband or then boyfriend, but nowhusband, when we were living in Paris,
(06:18):
it was very hard to get him out of Paris.
He really was very committed to Paris anddidn't like the idea of moving elsewhere.
But we were living there duringthe pandemic, and we were in a
very, a lovely but very smallapartment in the first lockdown.
And I'd previously been workingfrom home as a freelance writer.
He had started working from homeas a, he does corporate training.
(06:40):
The two of us working from home in a tinyapartment was just not going to cut it.
So, when we had the summer where thingsopened up, we had friends of a friend,
had a gite in Nuits-Saint-Georges.
And so we went and spent aweek or maybe even two weeks
there, just to go for a holiday.
And I said, "Let's just go for a littlevisit to Burgundy and see what it's like."
And fortunately, we both really liked it.
(07:01):
We loved the owners of the gite who livearound the corner and have become friends
of ours, and we really liked the area.
The gite had quite a lot ofspace, it had three bedrooms and
it was a little terrace house.
So, when it became clear that therewas going to be another lockdown and
that they were looking for someone torent it, I put up my hand immediately
and we made the move quite quicklyactually from Paris to Burgundy.
It all happened within a couple of months.
(07:22):
And almost as soon as we gotthere, the second lockdown began,
and that was over the winter.
It was not ideal circumstance, wecouldn't really get around very
much, we couldn't see a lot, andyet it was absolutely beautiful.
And I think it's becauseof the beauty of Burgundy.
I mean, Burgundy's not an unknownregion by any means, but I
really think it's underrated bya lot of people, particularly
(07:44):
tourists coming to visit France.
I don't personally speak to a lot ofpeople who say, "Oh, I really want to
go and spend time in Burgundy." Youknow, they'll say Provence, always
Paris, you know, maybe some other areas.
Normandy, Provence, Paris.
Alsace as well is getting very popular.
Yeah, but Burgundy... this is the thing,I think people often will go to Bordeaux.
(08:06):
I personally, I reallylike Bordeaux and the area.
I just absolutely loved Burgundy.
It's very lush and green.
Yeah.
The produce was exceptional.
I really... Going to the localNuits-Saint-Georges market every Friday
morning, and I went every Friday morning.
I mean, during lockdown there wasreally not a lot else to do, and so I-
(08:27):
Right.
I would go to the market and I would comeback laden like a pack horse, with huge
bags of this absolutely gorgeous produceand then I would just spend the entire
weekend cooking and having fun with food.
And it was a really wonderful timefor me to explore recipes I hadn't had
a chance to do and things like that.
But it was because the quality ofthe food there is so fantastic.
(08:49):
The incredible cheeses.
You know, the wine of course.
And so we know about Burgundy,we know about the wine.
But I really think the landscapeand the quality of the produce and
the food is underrated as well.
So, we just had a wonderful time there.
The weather is fairly similar toParis and therefore not amazing.
Yeah.
I mean, if you like sunshineas I do, as an Australian.
So, you know, it would... It tendedtowards quite chilly in the summers
(09:12):
and not necessarily particularlyhot, but some people love that.
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.
if you want a part ofFrance that's not super hot-
... usually, you know, there are exceptions,but yes, Burgundy would be good.
Yeah.
It's perfect for that.
It's just very lush and green.
Really nice for sort of outdoor walks andoutdoor activities and things like that.
(09:32):
And obviously, it has so many beautifulchateaus, really beautiful little
villages and a lot of wonderfulrestaurants actually, as well.
We discovered there were quite a fewvillages where it would be quite a small
village, they wouldn't do much otherthan make wine as they all... All the
villages would make beautiful wine, butthere would be like one amazing restaurant
in that village and really amazing.
Yeah, I find Burgundy tobe kind of upscale overall.
(09:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree with that.
That's the impression it gives whenyou, as a French person, when you visit.
Yeah.
You're like, "Oh, I've stepped into anupscale kind of lifestyle- that people
have." I'm not sure if the prices arereally outrageous compared to Paris or
compared to, I don't know, Provence or-
Mm-hmm.
... any other parts of France, but itfeels upscale, let's put it that way.
(10:19):
I absolutely agree.
I mean, for one thing the architectureis very notable, I remember being
there and looking around and thinking,"Oh, you can really tell that
historically there's been a lot ofmoney in this region because they've
invested in beautiful architecture."
And also things are very well lookedafter, so the villages are very clean,
(10:40):
and beautifully taken care of, and they'llhave lovely roses and things that I find
maybe in the south, some villages are alittle bit more rough around the edges.
Particularly, the village thatwe live in, Tavel, at the moment,
is a lovely little village.
It's a wine-making village as well.
Tavel, right?
Tavel, yeah.
We're not far from Avignon.
And it's also a wine-making village,but it feels so different to a-... a
(11:03):
Burgundy wine-making village, you know.
It feels rough around the edges ina charming way of its own, but yeah,
Burgundy is definitely very refined.
Yeah.
Tavel makes everyday wines.
They make reds, they make rosés.
Rosé, of course.
Do they make whites?
I'm not sure if they make white.
Not really.
Okay.
Not really.
I mean, it's mostly rosé.
(11:24):
There is a little bit of red, there's alittle bit of other, but it's mostly rosé.
And fine sort of table rosé, itis, but this is not Burgundy wine.
Right, right.
Tavel, you wouldn't pay more thanfive, six euros even for the famous
ones, you know, but in general.
Yeah.
Well, there is actually one amazingwinemaker in our village that's become
(11:46):
very, very well known internationallyand they run a little bit higher, but
again, nothing like Burgundy levels.
They would be 30 or 40 euros a bottle.
It's called Languelot.
Aha.
Yes.
And it's very, very hard to get.
You actually can't buyfrom the cellar door.
They don't sell direct, and it'svery hard to find it in shops.
Usually, you can only find itin restaurants, and there's one
(12:08):
restaurant in our village thatsells this particular wine.
So every time we go there forlunch, we order the Languelot.
So this is something that I'm not surelisteners understand, but in France,
there's several ways to sell your wine.
There are people who selltheir wines internationally.
These are the ones that you find at Costcoand in the US and Canada, et cetera.
(12:31):
These are big producers who could alwaysmake a few thousand bottles, you know,
predictably export them, et cetera.
Then you have the people who make wine tobe sold through grocery stores, and those
are also, usually fairly big producers.
(12:51):
Not as big as the exporters, but big.
And then you have the peoplewho sell to restaurants.
And those are the people whomake pretty small productions
comparatively, or they sell at the door.
So clearly this Languelot is in between.
They have probably enough to be soldto some restaurants, but they don't
(13:14):
have enough to sell directly becausethey don't make enough is the issue.
They don't have enough, bigenough production to sell
themselves, which is weird.
And there's also wine producersin the Southwest who pretty
much only sell themselves.
You can't buy it anywhere otherthan if you stop by and buy some.
This is what we loved finding in Burgundyactually, the winemakers who were
(13:37):
those smaller winemakers who weren'tmaking enough to be selling certainly
internationally or doing big amounts, butwere making absolutely beautiful wine.
And often quite, by Burgundystandards, really affordable wine.
Mm-hmm.
The way we found these wineswere through the locals.
The locals know what's what.
Particularly local winemakers, I mean,obviously, but local winemakers are
(13:59):
incredibly knowledgeable about thelocal wines, and they're very, you
know, even though they're trying tosell their own wine, they're very happy
to tell you about other winemakers.
They're really supportive of each other.
And so, particularly if you buy abottle or two of their wine, you know,
and show appreciation for them, butthey'll more than happily tell you about
other places to find really good wine.
They'll tell you about their favorite, andthey're really good at finding value, like
(14:21):
delicious wine that doesn't cost a lot.
We were buying somewonderful wine in Burgundy.
It's actually probably ruined us forwine anywhere else because through
our winemaker friends, we were findingwines that would be 12 euros a bottle,
15 euros a bottle, which is notsuper, super cheap, but nothing crazy.
That was absolutely delicious.
Mm-hmm.
And now by comparison looking at,it tasted like the kind of bottles
(14:45):
of wine you would get elsewherethat would be easily 30 or 40 euros.
It would be that kind of level of quality.
And we just found itthrough recommendation.
So I really recommend talking, going,doing some tastings, going to some
cellar doors, just chat to them.
Most people speak at least a bit ofEnglish, they're very welcoming, they're
very happy to discuss and give tips.
(15:05):
And also I've discovered winemakers,again, good taste goes in all directions,
they usually are very good at givingrestaurant recommendations as well.
So if you're looking for somewhere togo for lunch or a few times where we
would be going somewhere and doing atasting in the morning, we'd think,
"Where are we going for lunch?" We'relike, "We won't even bother looking.
We'll just talk to the winemaker in themorning and they'll tell us where we
should go," and they'll always know.
(15:26):
So those are my tips.
Yeah.
So you are a travel writer.
Talk a little bit about that,that part of your experience.
What sorts of publications have you done?
What sort of work do you do?
Sure.
I mainly work for magazines.
So I work a lot for somepublications in Australia.
Probably the main one is calledEscape, which is a, they have a number
(15:49):
of different formats, but they'rea weekly lift-out from a newspaper.
They also have a magazine every coupleof months and they have a great website.
So I do a lot of writing for them,but I also write for a number
of other publications as well.
And I'm also in the process of writing abook, which is in its very early stages,
but also a sort of food and travel focus.
So, they're the sort of areasthat I love writing about.
(16:11):
I love traveling and I love eatingand cooking, and so the extension of
sort of writing about those things andsharing what I've learned and what I
discover with other people has reallybeen something I've enjoyed doing.
So it's been really wonderful to beable to make a career out of that.
Sure.
Yeah.
So do you have a website as well?
I do.
I have a website.
It's alexlalak.com.
(16:31):
It's very straightforward.
And I have on there some of the articlesI've written, and sort of tips and things.
A lot of the articles I tend to write orthat I pitch to editors tend to be based
actually on either places that I've goneto and I always do a lot of research,
because, you know, I want to and becauseI love doing that, finding the best
places, talking to locals, and then Ilove sharing those through the articles.
(16:55):
Often, also through things that I getasked by people, particularly family
and friends, they'll often ask me foradvice if they're going somewhere.
And once I sort of realize what peopleare interested in, I think, "Hmm, I
should put that into an article andshare it with some other people."
So the articles on there are sortof combination of those things.
So what is it like living inProvence, living in Tavel?
(17:16):
It is wonderful.
It really... There'sno other way to put it.
I absolutely love it.
We're actually in theprocess of moving house.
Uh-huh.
So we're in Tavel at the moment,but only for a couple more weeks,
and then we will be in the heart ofProvence in a village called Robion.
Aha.
Yeah.
Robion is further east?
It is, yes.
(17:36):
So it's near Cavaillon.
It's near, some of the villages nearby,it's near a number of well-known villages.
L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue is well known,for its amazing antique shops and
antique market, so that's maybe10 minutes away from Robion.
It's in that sort of area.
Near Ménerbes is another famous one thatpeople love, it's a beautiful village.
(17:56):
It is wonderful livinghere, I have to say.
I really... as an Australian who lovessunshine, for me this is definitely
the part of France that has the mostsunshine, and I really appreciate that.
It really creates an atmosphereof warmth, not just in literal
warmth, obviously the summer, itdoes get very hot, I have to say.
Mm-hmm.
But it does just feel every day... weget something like, I believe, 300 days
(18:19):
of sunshine a year, is the statistic.
And I would believe that.
I feel like even all throughwintertime, it'll be very, very cold
outside, but the sky will be brightand blue and we'll get lots of sunny
days, so it's really beautiful.
And actually, I really recommend visitingthese areas in winter, actually, as well
as... or maybe not even necessarily theheart of winter, but in the shoulder
(18:40):
months, not just in summertime.
Actually, I would say that summer isperhaps my, if I had to pick one, maybe
my least favorite time to be here, inthe very peak of summer, that July,
August period, because it is just so hot.
It is so, so hot.
There tend to be a lot of visitors,which is nice, but it, you know, it
becomes- it starts to feel, you know,the markets are sort of overfilled
(19:01):
with people and it's hard to getaround and you just can't really live
life the way that you normally do.
I think we all... all the locals sigha little sigh of relief come, you know,
the 1st of September, La Rentrée, whensort of all the visitors go away and
suddenly the market has half as manypeople and you can get around and
talk to people and do what you want.
But yeah, those shoulder monthsparticularly, sort of April, May, and
(19:25):
September, October are really spectacular.
And winter is wonderful as well.
So, do you have favorite villagesto take people to when you have
family or friends visiting Provence?
Where do you take them to and, Imean, if they can't stay with you,
where do you tell them to stay?
Because that is the biggest question, iswhere do you stay when visiting Provence?
(19:47):
Because it's kind of a long arealike, you know, between Apt and,
and Avignon, really, there's a lot.
It's huge, actually.
I would actually probably say, myrecommendation, and this is a little
bit of a challenging recommendationbecause I realize not everybody
can do this, but I would probablysay don't try to do everything
in one trip if you can avoid it.
If you can come back more than once, Iwould really recommend doing that because
(20:11):
it is a huge area to try to fit in.
And sometimes, people will come andthen they'll spend literally one day
doing an hour, hour and a half driveto get somewhere, spend a couple of
hours somewhere, and then driving back.
You end up just spending all of your timedriving, you know, trying to get around.
So I wouldn't really recommendthat, and I think understanding
that there are really sort of threemain regions of Provence to explore.
(20:33):
There's the Luberon, which Robion,where we're moving to, is sort
of in the heart of, and that'sa well-known part of Provence.
There's the Alpilles, which is alovely area, and that's where you
find, you know, Saint-Rémy-de-Provenceand Arles and beautiful places
like that, Baux-de-Provence.
And then there's the, the partof Provence that's more the Cote
d'Azur, closer to the coastline.
And for me, those three areas are quiteseparate, particularly the Cote d'Azur
(20:55):
because it stretches so far along.
I would recommend really making that-if you're going to do a trip, just
do a trip focused on that area alone.
Perhaps the Luberon and the Alpilles,you could combine, but just be
prepared for a bit of driving.
And I find when we want to take peopleout, there are places in both...
I mentioned Saint-Rémy because welove, we love visiting there and
(21:15):
there are some beautiful restaurantsaround that we like to go to.
Baux-de-Provence is reallybeautiful as well, very spectacular.
And they're the sort of areas actuallythat when you're- even if you are doing
a bit of a long drive, the landscapeis so beautiful that it's actually
really lovely to drive through thoseareas and enjoy the landscape and get
to see, because it is quite different,the beautiful cliffs and the trees
(21:37):
are quite- it- it's just has quite adifferent feel to other parts of Provence.
Arles is actually reallywonderful as well.
It has a slightly wilderfeel to it somehow.
It's not quite as pristine as someof the other Provençal villages.
And it has some wonderful museums,some really fantastic restaurants
have started to open in that area,so that's another nice one to visit.
But if you're around the Alpilles,sorry, around the Luberon, there are
(21:59):
some wonderful spots around there.
We like heading... I mean, Apt isgreat and they have a beautiful
Saturday market that's worth visiting.
And actually there's a little village,probably about 15 minutes or so north
of Apt called Saint-Saturnin-lès-Apt.
Okay.
Saint-Saturnin-lès-Apt, okay.
It's quite a small village, but it'sbecoming more and more known, because
(22:22):
there's a little restaurant hotel.
They just opened the hotel sectionthere called Le Saint-Hubert.
And actually the beautiful owners of therestaurant have become friends of ours
just from going there and getting toknow them and they're absolutely lovely.
It's a couple, they're both chefs.
They opened the restaurantnot long before COVID.
Oh.
And poor things, they got it all setup, it was absolutely amazing, and
(22:45):
then COVID hit so they sort of didtheir best to get through that time.
To survive, yeah.
And to survive, and bless them, they did.
I mean, it wouldn't have been easy at all.
But they've continued and gone strengthto strength, and just this year they've
opened a little hotel above the restaurantwhich was originally part of the
building, which is really beautiful so Ireally recommend going there for lunch.
They've got a terrace at the back, avery small terrace, with a fabulous
(23:08):
view out over the valley of the Luberon.
So we love to go there andhave a lovely long lunch.
I'm a big fan of the long lunch.
Gazing out at their view and thengo for a walk around the village
after lunch, it's really beautiful.
Yeah.
That's part of the lifestyle, isyou take a long lunch and then
you have a... a stroll, you know?
(23:28):
Mm-hmm.
It's very fun.
Places like L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue,
La Fontaine de Vaucluse, all ofthose typical one, do you take
people to those as well or arethey just too many tourists?
No, we do, we do, becausethey're still beautiful.
There's a reason why they'repopular with tourists.
And I have to say, other than thosereally peak summer months, you know,
(23:49):
there'll be tourists in all these places,but actually it's not too much of a
problem, I don't find... it doesn't feelsort of overwhelmed by tourists at all.
Yeah.
No, we definitely go to all those places.
We love Gordes.
And again, Gordes can be a bit of atricky one, because it is quite small and
when it's busy with tourists, it can bequite hard to move around and see things.
There's a very, very beautiful five-starhotel in Gordes right on the cliff side.
(24:13):
Airelles, I think is the hotel group.
It's A-I-R-E-L-L-E-S.
Okay.
Okay.
And it is very, very expensive.
You know, if you were able to staythere, then I would highly recommend
it, but I think that's probablyout of most people's budgets.
But what is wonderful and what we liketo do is actually go there just for,
(24:35):
you know, a coffee in the afternoonand a little dessert or go for a little
cocktail or just go and do something,because they have a wonderful little
terrace bar that you can go to.
There are two wonderfulrestaurants as well, but again,
they tend to be a little pricey.
But if you go to the bar, you canorder a little dessert, order a little
coffee, enjoy the view, enjoy theatmosphere, and still have that five-star
(24:55):
experience, and it's a really, reallywonderful way to experience Gordes.
Wonderful.
I didn't know about this.
Next time I'm in Gordes, I will try it.
Oh, I thoroughly recommend it.
It really feels very special.
It's a lovely way to see it.
Okay, more recommendations like that?
I love those...
We have, I have so many recommendations.
(25:17):
We have so many different littleplaces that we like taking people to.
Another place that I really enjoyand I really recommend visiting,
which is actually going to bevery close to our new home in the
village of Oppede, is a beautifulwinery called Mas des Infermières.
and it's actually owned by theHollywood film director, Ridley Scott.
(25:39):
Le Mas des Infermières à Oppede,c'est une cave à vin à Oppede.
Very good.
So that's a good place to stopand have... Enjoy some local wine?
Oh, it's lovely.
They do a really nice selection there,which is one of the things I like.
Sometimes when you go to wineries,depending on what their produce is
like, they might only make rosé andmaybe a little bit of other things.
(26:00):
What I really like here is theymake a really wonderful rosé, just
a really good standard table rosé.
They also make a really lovely sparklingrosé, which actually incidentally we
had as our sparkling wine at our weddingearlier this year, because we love this
winery, it was very special for us.
So we really love that wine, butthey also make really nice red wines
(26:22):
and I think they might have starteddoing one or two whites as well.
So, basically everyone's coveredregardless of what you like.
But they're just, they'revery warm, very welcoming.
The staff speak excellent English.
They happily give youa taste of everything.
There's also within the main sort of cavewhen you first enter, which is a beautiful
building, a few sort of bits of Hollywoodmemorabilia that Ridley Scott's put in,
(26:46):
which sounds a little bit cheesy, andto be honest, I would not have been very
into, but it's actually quite lovely.
There are some reallybeautiful pieces that he has.
Apparently, he sends pieces of costumesand things from his films and things-
Cool.
... that he's held onto.
It's actually really cool.
When you go there, if you mightbe able to persuade them if you're
there, and it's a quiet day and youget lucky, but otherwise they have
certain weekends where they do tours.
(27:07):
But if you can do a behind-the-scenestour, they'll take you and show
you where they make the wine.
But also if you go downstairs, they'vegot an incredible room where they
store hundreds of barrels of wine.
And then there's another beautifulroom that they use for, like, meetings
and things and it has a lot morememorabilia and things down there.
So, if you can get a littlebackstage tour, I recommend doing
it, because we've done that a coupleof times and it's been lovely.
(27:29):
But even just to go and taste the winesand just have a little experience.
Do they sell these tours and winetastings, or do you just taste and
buy a few bottles the same way?
You just taste.
Yeah, it's all free.
It's all free.
They're very welcoming.
I mean, you know, these places youcould go and taste and you don't
even have to buy any bottles.
There's no expectation there, but...
(27:50):
That's true.
They would like you to, though.
It's delicious.
Yeah, I would recommend it, becausethey have really delicious wines,
but there's no actual requirement.
And often we're bringing friendswith us who are traveling and
it's quite hard taking bottleswith you when you're traveling.
So-
Yeah.
... you know, they might maybe takeone bottle, but you know, the
people in these places understandthat and it's completely fine.
(28:11):
Actually, on their website it says,"Accessible without appointment. The
shop is open all year round. View ouropening times here." So I'll just put
a link to their website and you candecide if you want to make a stop or not.
And Oppede is a lovely town.
Oppede-le-Vieux is-
Oh, it's charming.
... is must see as well.
Oh, it's gorgeous.
Yeah, absolutely gorgeous.
(28:31):
And even just driving around, so thisis another thing that I would really
recommend if you come to visit Provence,is you really should rent a car.
It's very, very hard toget around without a car.
Yeah.
There are some buses.
There are, I think, some taxis.
I've never taken one, andI've never really seen one,
but apparently they exist.
(28:51):
What I tell people is either you hirea guide who's going to take you around
for a few days, or you do day trips.
You could do day tripsfrom Avignon, for example.
You stay in Avignon, you hire adifferent guide to take you to, or
the same guide, to take you to dodifferent things different days.
But you need a car.
(29:11):
It's, this is not, you know.
And you need to be fairly comfortabledriving on narrow, windy roads,
because that's what you have there.
I mean, if I remember correctly, theroad between Rubion and L'Isle-sur
la Sorgue is one of these wherepeople think they can drive like 100
kilometers an hour, and they shouldn't.
They will also... I think whatyou just need to be prepared for
(29:34):
as well is just don't stress.
You just drive in your ownway, just drive carefully.
And if anybody comes up behind you andis tailing you, which unfortunately
does happen quite a lot on theFrench roads, don't worry about it.
That person will go around you probablyat speed as soon as they're able to.
Yep.
I find this all the time, so Ijust, if someone comes up behind
(29:55):
me, I don't panic about it.
I just keep driving the way that I'mdriving, and I know that they'll go
around me and speed off, and that's fine.
And just don't get upsetabout it or stressed by it.
Usually, I just say, "I'm ahead ofyou, sweetheart. Just find a way to get
around me." If I can pull over, I will,you know, but yeah, I was here first.
Absolutely.
Occasionally, I mean,sometimes that is the best way.
(30:16):
If you just pull over and let themgo past to give yourself that bit
of space, and just as, becausethis should be enjoyable as well.
You should be enjoying the driveand enjoying the landscape,
so don't let it be stressful.
But also, don't let that stopyou from driving, because I
really think it's worth it.
And the Vaucluse, I would say,on a bicycle is not ideal.
These roads, there's a lotof very aggressive drivers.
(30:39):
I wouldn't do a lot of cycling inthe Vaucluse, unless I'm with a
guide who knows exactly where they'regoing and will take you off, you
know, around, away from those roads.
I agree.
And again, the distancesare really quite far.
You really need to be very realistic,because I think doing a bicycle tour in
a small part of an area, for example,around Apt, there are some really,
(31:00):
really beautiful bicycle tracks.
Actually, right through the Luberon,they're putting in more and more
bicycle trails and whatever.
That's lovely, but that's not reallygoing to get you from A to B very much,
because it actually is quite a distanceto get between a lot of these villages.
So I think a car is necessary.
Yeah.
I think while saying that as well, andwhat we tend to do when we have people
staying with us or friends in the areaand we want to meet up with them, what
(31:23):
we tend to do is don't be too ambitious.
I think, really probablyvisiting one place in a day is
probably quite enough, maybe two.
I really wouldn't try to visit morethan two, two places in one day,
unless they're very close together.
It's just too much.
I usually would like to do something nicein the morning, so maybe go to a market
(31:44):
that I know that's on that day, or goto a village or a town that has a museum
I want to visit or something like that.
We have a nice morning activity.
We'll go and have a nice long lunch,because I love a long lunch, and
I think that's really important.
And then in the afternoon, often aftera morning of exploring, a long lunch,
you're full of food, you've had a coupleof glasses of wine, there's not really a
(32:05):
lot that you want to do in the afternoon.
Let yourself have a bit of a rest.
So maybe go and do something small,you know, you can stop somewhere, go
for a little walk, something like that.
But then go back to wherever you'restaying, relax, enjoy yourself, you know.
Don't push it too hard, because that's howwe approach it here as people living here.
You know, we enjoy the day butdon't expect too much of it.
Yeah, a lot of places where you'regoing to be staying, be they
(32:26):
hotels or Airbnbs or whatever,are going to have a swimming pool.
So go relax by the pool.
Make the most of it.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
You know, enjoy the garden, beingoutdoors or, you know, sit and
read a book or have a nap, I mean.
Life in Provence is about enjoyingthings, but also just enjoying your
(32:47):
own day, enjoying your own life,eating good food, resting, relaxing,
just having a really pleasant time.
You don't need to tick everythingoff on your to-do list every time.
That's why I said, you know, evenif you don't know if you're going to
be able to come back another time,let's be optimistic and say that
you will, and just pick a few thingsthat you want to do and then maybe
leave the others for another time.
(33:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a good excuse to come back.
Maybe share some advice thatyou have for people who are
hoping to also move to France.
What are some things they should know?
Who is the ideal candidateto move to France?
The few ideal candidatesin your experience?
Mm-hmm.
I feel like in many ways, to be honest, Imean, an ideal candidate to move to France
(33:29):
is someone, this might sound very obvious,but someone who really wants to do it.
I think really wanting to movespecifically to France, you know,
wanting to, having an understanding alittle bit of what French life really
means and what life will be like here,I think, is really important in advance.
So I would, for one thing, I woulddefinitely recommend visiting at least
(33:50):
once, if not numerous times prior toplanning a visit, just so that you can
really get an understanding for what...what it feels like to be in France.
And try to come for, not for aweekend or a few days or a, you
know... Try to actually come andspend a week or a couple of weeks.
If you're able to come and spend amonth in France ahead of moving, just
to come and, again, get a real feel forit, I think that really helps a lot.
(34:12):
It is not absolutely essential tospeak French, but it definitely
helps, particularly outside of Paris.
And I think even in Paris as well,I think the French have a certain
expectation that... that peoplewho are living in their country
will have some level of French.
And quite frankly, Ithink that's pretty fair.
So I think that's definitely important.
(34:33):
If I moved to Australia and Ididn't try to learn any English,
you'd think, "Oh, this person'snot going to do great," right?
Absolutely.
And it just makes life harder foryou than it really needs to be.
Having said that, again, I wouldn'tbe afraid to do it, if you haven't
learnt French or you only have verybasic French and you really, really
wanna move to France, go for it, butmake an effort with the language.
(34:55):
And I find so often with localsthat they appreciate effort so much.
Yeah.
So even though my French is not greatand I make so many mistakes still, they
don't mind because they can see that I'mmaking an effort and I'm really trying
to communicate in French and trying tounderstand French language and culture,
and I think that really means a lot.
I find, actually French peopleare so much warmer and kinder than
(35:17):
they sometimes get credit for.
I think maybe there's a little bit ofa... a brusqueness there sometimes that,
that might come across as being rude.
I mean, sometimes, look, sometimesFrench people are rude, but sometimes
people in all countries are rude as well.
There are plenty ofAustralians who are rude.
So that definitely happens, and I thinkyou're more likely to get that kind of
(35:37):
experience, I think, if you come in anddon't take any effort or time to sort of
assimilate, even as a tourist, you know?
I think even as a tourist, smallthings, you know, being able to say
please or thank you or just little,little things in French I think
would make such a difference, and Ithink people really appreciate that.
So, I think having the right mindset isreally important for moving to France.
(36:00):
I think planning isreally important as well.
As we talked about, you know, I startedoff in Paris, and then we made the
move to Burgundy for a year, whichwe loved, but it wasn't quite right.
And we thought about moving back to Paris,but I'd always had this little hankering
for the South of France in my heart.
And so we moved down and gave it atry, and then have discovered that
we absolutely love it down here.
(36:20):
But that, I really recommenddoing that, not necessarily being
completely committed to, "I'm movingto Paris, and that's the end of it."
Yeah.
Maybe that will be right for you.
Maybe it won't and be open to maybe tryingsome different places, moving around.
I have another friend who's Australianwho lived in Paris for a couple of
years and went back to Australia,and she's come back to France and
(36:41):
was planning to live in Paris again.
And she just got back to there and said,"Actually, this isn't right for me."
And so she's currently in the South andreally loving it, along the Cote d'Azur.
And I think probably she's going tobuild a life on the Cote d'Azur now.
And she's found that really suits her.
But she was really open to thatchange, and when she got to Paris,
didn't think, "Okay, I'm not enjoyingit here," for whatever reason.
(37:02):
I think maybe the city atmospherewasn't right for her or whatever, but
didn't write off France as a whole.
Mm-hmm.
She just sort of looked for where...Because I think this is the other
thing with France, and, you know,as a tourist you can see this,
but it's really the differentparts of France are so different.
That's right.
There's a thread that holds them alltogether, absolutely, but the experience
(37:23):
and the environment and so many thingsare so completely different that I think,
you know, I really feel like almost anyonecould find somewhere in France that they
really loved, certainly to visit if notto live, you know, because I think you
can have from living in the Alps, toliving on the Cote d'Azur, to being in the
cities, it is really, really different.
Or Bretagne or Normandy or...
(37:46):
But... Exactly.
... or the Basque Coast.
I mean, you know, it's acountry of a lot of differences.
Paris is amazing.
I love Paris.
But...
Me too.
... I would be miserableliving in Paris full time.
I cannot do it.
It's too high-octane.
You run into situations that I finddifficult to handle all the time.
(38:09):
Whereas if it's occasionally where I live,it doesn't, I mean, I find I get over it.
But in Paris, it happens over and overand over again, and I don't like it.
Like, I just can't... But,you know, I'm a country girl.
That's just...
I was born and raised in a big city.
Toulouse is a big city by Frenchstandards, but, as soon as I lived
in the countryside, I was like, "Oh,that's what I like." That's for me.
(38:33):
I feel the same way actually, becauseI've always lived in cities as well,
including cities like New York, you know.
I've really lived the big city sort ofexperience, and I loved that in ways,
but I just could not do it right now.
And I felt the same waywhen I got to the country.
I think there was a part of methat just went, "Oh," just...
Yes.
I just suddenly relaxed a littlebit, and I think it's something
(38:54):
that I keep realizing here.
Particularly, I think because my husbandand I both work from home, so we're
not commuting to and from work, we'requite flexible with our schedules.
You know, we have a lot of benefitsthat we're very, very grateful for.
But it's also made me realizethat we... we don't have a huge
amount of stress in our life.
I mean, of course there's some there,there's always stress with life and a
(39:16):
toddler running around and whatever.
But not in the way that I think atother times in my life, I've sometimes
felt really stressed and, you know,busy and pulled in lots of directions.
And I feel like sometimes life in aFrench village, you know, it lacks some
of the excitement that you get from citylife or from living in other places,
and so you have to sort of accept that.
But also it comes with a sense ofcalm that is so soothing and so
(39:39):
wonderful, and I really enjoy that.
Yeah.
And it's like with children, you know,sometimes you have to, you have to
let your kids entertain themselves.
Yes.
It's important that they find waysto entertain themselves because
that's how you discover what youlike and what... And it's the
same with living in a quiet place.
Like... there's not alwayssomething entertaining,
(40:01):
reaching out to entertain you.
It's you thinking about, "Okay,what would make this day pleasant?
What would make this day nice?" Andyou think of it yourself, which is
a wonderful way to live, I think.
It absolutely is, and I thinkthe same thinking can actually
be applied to going on a vacationas well, you know, the holiday
(40:22):
approach, particularly in Provence.
Not every minute and every day needsto be filled with activities as well.
There's actually a lot to do in Provence,and it really, to be honest, is one of the
reasons I really have enjoyed moving here.
Burgundy is, as I said, incrediblybeautiful and I love living there,
but for me, there wasn't quiteenough variety in activities to
live there long-term, whereas inProvence, there are so many options.
(40:44):
Always stuff to do.
From cultural things you can do, youknow, museums you can visit, the markets.
I'm an absolute market junkie,let me tell you, so-... I'm always
happy to go to markets, and thereare so many to pick from here.
But also a lot of wonderful outdoorsthings you can do, from cycling to
kayaking to all sorts of things.
But you also don't needto do things all the time.
(41:05):
I think it is, like you said, I thinkwhen you were talking about where to
stay or what kind of accommodationwould be recommended, I really recommend
somewhere that has a little bit ofoutdoor space, a garden, maybe a
swimming pool if you're here in summer.
Definitely a swimming pool, actually,if you're here in summer, I really...
Yes.
I thoroughly recommend that.
But somewhere that you can comfortably goback to and enjoy the space, relax, sit
(41:29):
outside, like I said, sit and read a bookor, you know, sit and have a little gin
and tonic in the afternoon in the garden.
Something like that I think isreally, really important to have those
restful times, places where you can gowalking, even just a beautiful village
that you can go and walk around.
I think that's one of the nicestactivities you can do here, is just
going from, just going for a walk,just a simple stroll and the beautiful
(41:51):
things that you'll see, and theexperience doesn't need to be structured.
It can just be very loose and relaxed, andit will be really, actually some of the
most memorable things you'll do, I think.
Yeah, you can be in the moment.
Well, it sounds like you'veadjusted to the Mediterranean
lifestyle very, very well.
I've done my best, I mean,it's not hard to adapt to.
(42:14):
It's a beautiful wayto live, I must admit.
Glorious.
Absolutely.
Well, Alex, we have been talking almostan hour, so we have to say goodbye.
But I hope people visit your website,Alex Lalak, read your articles.
Let me know when your book comes out.
I'll link to it in the show notes, andall the recommendations you've shared will
(42:34):
be in the show notes for this episode.
Thank you for inspiring us.
A travel writer is an inspirer.
That's a great job you have, you know?
It's like, you make people feel better.
I tell you, it is a lot of fun.
Inspiring them to dothings, it's wonderful.
Hmm.
It is really lovely.
Merci beaucoup, Alex.
De rien.
(42:55):
Merci, Annie.
Au revoir.
Merci, au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
(43:19):
And a special shout-out this week to mynew Join Us in France champions, Jolyn,
who joined at the Groupies du Podcastyearly level, and Tamar May, who was a
boot camper, so I know her personally.
Bonjour, Tamar.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I
would love to have you pledge more soyou can have access to more rewards.
(43:42):
This week, I shared two extra pieces ofcontent, one called Access Restrictions
at Notre-Dame de Paris, and the other: How to Use an eSIM When Visiting France. (43:47):
undefined
And this one is more likea step by step, what is it?
How it works?
Will it do this?
Will it not do that?
Et cetera.
I think it's going to be very helpfulfor people who've never tried this
before and are a bit hesitant, but youdo need data when you visit France.
(44:09):
So to become a patron,go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
Somebody left this review of mytour this week, and if you want to
read more of these reviews, go tojoinusinfrance.com/vmr, which stands for
(44:30):
VoiceMap Reviews, about my Latin Quartertour, "Great tour of the Latin Quarter.
My only regret is that I had to breakthe tour into two days and did not
arrive in time to see the Roman arena.
Next time.
Many thanks." Yeah, sometimesyou get there and it's closed.
That's just how it is.
About Le Marais, "Great tour.I loved the engaging style of
(44:53):
storytelling and details provided."
About the Saint-Germain-des-Prés tour: "An amazing tour to special hidden places (44:56):
undefined
and amazing corners that we would havenever come across on our own. Thank you."
Yes, thank you very much reviewers, Itry to make these tours truly something
that not everybody knows about.
(45:17):
Podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website,
and it's best for me because that way Iget to keep more of what you pay instead
of giving it mostly to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, itis a manual process, so don't expect
it to be instant like it would be ifyou were buying directly from the app,
(45:37):
but most of you listening plan theirtrip at least a few days in advance.
Some of you, it's morelike a few months, right?
So you're probably not in a big rush.
To use your codes, open VoiceMap, bottomright it says Tour Codes, tap on it, enter
the code, download the tour, and this isa digital product that you own forever.
(45:58):
Even if you change phones, forexample, log into your VoiceMap
account and you can download allthe tours you own again forever.
Think of these tours like walking aroundParis with your French friend, a friend
who loves history, architecture, andart, and can't wait to share it with you.
Take me in your pocketwith my VoiceMap Tours.
(46:18):
And if you're planning a trip to Franceand you need personalized advice, you can
hire me to be your itinerary consultant.
It's a very busy time ofyear for these consults.
Don't delay too much or thespots are all going to be full.
Again, you can book that by goingto joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
(46:39):
All right, let's have an importantupdate on tourist rentals in France.
If you're planning to stay at an Airbnbor short-term rental in France, listen up.
Some new national rules are being rolledout that might explain why the place
you booked suddenly becomes unavailable.
In 2024, the Le Meur law introduceda much stricter framework for
(47:06):
tourist rentals, especially incities where housing is tight.
Now, I'm not just talking about Airbnb.
This is for all shortterm tourist rentals.
I'm going to give you the basics,but if you own property in France and
you want to rent it out, talk to yourcity hall or notaire for the details.
Until now, whether or not youhad to declare a furnished rental
(47:30):
like an Airbnb or VRBO or Gites deFrance depended on where in France
the property was located and if itwas your primary residence or not.
But going forward, registration ismandatory across the whole country for
both primary and secondary residences.
There's going to be a national registryand an online system to handle it all.
(47:55):
It's expected to launch by May 20th, 2026.
So it's not today, but it's in a year.
There are also new energy efficiencyrequirements for all rentals, although
that's not coming into full force until2034, but it's getting rolled out as well.
The French legislature wants to preservehousing for local residents and also
(48:19):
improve the quality of the rental unitson the market, which means go after
slumlords, because we do have those.
So what does this mean for traveler?
Mostly that there will be fewershort term rentals eventually.
In large cities with lots of demandfrom visitors, the market for
short term rentals will mostly becaptured by folks who own several
(48:43):
units and make it their profession.
It'll probably go back to thesituation we had 10 years ago.
There were rental agencies whohandled short term rentals,
Airbnb swooped in and put a lotof these agencies out of business.
I think they'll make a comeback,because when visiting Nice for a week,
I'd rather deal with a local agencythan go through Airbnb, which is
(49:05):
impersonal and doesn't give a hoot aboutanything but their profits, really.
If you book a place that's not properlyregistered, the listing might disappear.
Now you have to admit, if you livedin a building in Paris that has
different people rolling in withtheir suitcases every few days, you
would know exactly what's happeningand you'd be sick of it too.
(49:26):
I mean, you know, whoever owns thatapartment has the right to use it
in any way they like, if they complywith local rules and regulations.
And if they're not doingthis, goodbye listing.
And if the building is in a buildingwith a condo board, that's a
copropriété, the building itself maynow ban short term tourist rentals
(49:48):
with two thirds vote of the owners.
Also, cities now have the power to lowerthe rental limit for primary residences.
Previously, you could rent outyour main home for up to 120 days
a year, but now that might be cutto 90 days depending on the city.
Bottom line, if you're using shortterm rentals in France, especially
(50:12):
in high demand areas like Paris,Lyon, Nice, you may notice fewer
listings or changing rules.
Book early, read the fine print, andif your booking is suddenly canceled,
it may be due to these new regulations.
If you need a place with akitchen, consider renting an
appart hôtel instead of an Airbnb.
(50:34):
An appart hôtel in France is a hybridbetween a hotel and a furnished apartment.
It includes a small kitchen, living area,private bathroom, offering more space and
flexibility than a standard hotel room.
Services like reception, cleaning,and breakfast are sometimes included.
You can book them for two nightsor two weeks or however long.
(50:56):
In Paris, Citadine are one such option.
Another option to consider, verystrongly, is a home exchange program.
I will release an episode aboutthat in the next few months,
hopefully sooner, but we'll see.
I think home exchange is anexcellent choice for people
who want to live like a local.
How about you actually stay insomebody's home and see how they live?
(51:19):
You can't get any morelocal than that, can you?
You can search for hotels thathave small kitchens in Booking
or in your favorite search tool.
There will be more and moreof those in France because
there's a need for them now.
Visitors like having a fridge,a hot plate, microwave, a coffee
maker so they can have some oftheir meals in their accommodations.
(51:41):
And not to forget, somewhere to make tea.
A kettle, they need a kettle, and sodo I. If you want to be sure you're
staying somewhere legal and safe, lookfor listings with a registration number
and good communication from the host.
France is still very much open tovisitors, of course, but it's tightening
(52:02):
the rules to make sure locals still havea place to live that they can afford.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
Many thanks to podcast editors Anneand Christian Cotovan, who produced
the transcripts and the audio.
Next week on the podcast, anepisode about the best of the
Savoie department with Elyse.
You can join us as we delve into theenchanting Savoie department in France.
(52:27):
We explore the rich history, thebreathtaking landscapes, renowned
ski resorts, charming villagesand delightful culinary offerings.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
(52:48):
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode543, cinq cent quarante-trois.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture, and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversation withAlexandra Lalak, an Australian travel
(00:36):
and food writer living in France.
Join me as we explore herjourney from Australia to Paris,
Burgundy, and finally Provence.
Discover her love for Frenchculture, cuisine, and the beautiful
landscapes of Burgundy and Provence.
Alex shares valuable tipsfor anyone dreaming of moving
to France or just visiting.
(00:57):
This episode is filled withinsights on French wine,
local markets, and the serene,fulfilling Mediterranean lifestyle.
Tune in for an inspiring andinformative conversation.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
(01:20):
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
Southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that at myboutique: JoinUsinFrance.com/boutique.
And remember Patreon supporters get thepodcast ad-free as soon as it's ready.
Click on the link in the show notesto enjoy this Patreon reward for as
(01:42):
little as three dollars per month.
And I'd like to remind you that to seethe show notes for this episode and
the transcript for this episode, youneed to go to JoinUsinFrance.com/543.
That's the numeral 5-4-3.
(02:02):
For the magazine part of the podcasttoday after my chat with Alexandra,
I'll discuss changes coming to theAirbnb market in France that are
going to affect visitors as well.
(02:23):
Bonjour, Alex Lalak, andwelcome to Join Us in France.
Thank you so much, Annie.
It's lovely to be with you.
Wonderful to talk to you.
We have a lot of fun topics to discuss.
You live in France, and youwent from Paris to Burgundy.
So, we're going to talk a lotabout moving to France, how to
(02:44):
find great places in France.
You're a travel writer as well,so we're going to talk about that.
And if you have, you know, suggestionsfor people who are looking to visit
Burgundy, and all of that good stuff.
So, why don't you introduce yourself andtell us a little bit about what you do?
Sure.
I'm an Australian food and travel writer,and I'm currently living in the South
(03:06):
of France, but as you mentioned, I did,I was going to say did some time, that
makes it sound bad, but I spent some timein Burgundy, which was amazing actually.
But yeah, my France story began inParis originally, I would say six
or seven years ago, I lose track.
I first moved to France, I thinkit had always been a little
dream of mine to live in Paris,I think as it is for many people.
(03:29):
And I thought I would move to Paris formaybe two years, I had in my mind as a
sort of time, I thought that would be anice amount of time to spend in Paris.
But I, to put it simply really, Iwas seduced by France, and I was
also seduced by a Frenchman, Ishould probably mention as well.
Yeah.
Who is now my husband, so...
Yes, yes, yes.
(03:50):
That story ended well.
Good.
It wasn't just my wonderful husband whotook me in, I really, I just fell in love
with France and I fell in love with thelife here, much more than I expected
actually, when I first moved here.
Yeah.
I thought Paris would be beautiful and Ithought living here would be lovely, but
I've really found that I love the way oflife and the way that the French people
(04:11):
approach life and the philosophies, andthe quality of life that we enjoy here.
So, that's one of thereasons why I'm still here.
Yeah.
And your husband is fromwhich part of France?
His family are from, originally fromthe Loire, just outside of Le Mans.
But he actually grew up in the US.
Oh.
He's French American.
He's actually French Peruvian,but he grew up in the US.
(04:32):
So, we've got quite a mix ofnationalities going on in our household.
Wow.
So does he have Frenchnationality as well?
He does, yes.
Okay.
So you don't have a lot of problemswith visas and things like that?
No, I've been doing my own visa,now that we're married, I've
changed to one connected to him.
But no, it hasn't been an issue.
And he, as a Frenchcitizen, he has no problems.
(04:53):
And we have a little baby, alittle Frenchman of our own, so
he obviously, he was born here,so he's a French citizen as well.
Oh, congratulations.
How old is your baby?
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
He's 17 months.
Leonardo.
Ooh.
Yeah.
Yeah, he has a lot of energy.
Yes, I bet.
Yeah.
And is currently navigating.
Is he walking yet?
(05:13):
Oh, he is.
He is running.
Running, climbing.
He was quite an early walker,so he gets around a lot.
And he's sort of navigating thetwo languages at the moment, so
he's just on the cusp of speaking,so that's been quite fun as well.
Wonderful.
Well, that's going to keep you verybusy for the foreseeable future.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes, absolutely.
(05:34):
Okay.
So you mentioned that you werein Burgundy, but you moved away
from Burgundy to go to Provence?
Mm-hmm.
Tell us a little bit more about that.
What are the things that people need toknow about these two parts of France, when
they're considering a place to move to?
And Paris as well.
I mean, you've lived in all three.
Yeah.
I think for me personally, so as Isaid, I moved to Paris because it had
(05:57):
always been a little dream of mine.
I have to say actually I'd always, likea lot of people, had a little dream of
living in Provence very down as well.
I think the first time we all read AYear in Provence, you know, the Peter
Mayle classic, I think I just sort ofalways dreamed of being in that area.
But my husband or then boyfriend, but nowhusband, when we were living in Paris,
(06:18):
it was very hard to get him out of Paris.
He really was very committed to Paris anddidn't like the idea of moving elsewhere.
But we were living there duringthe pandemic, and we were in a
very, a lovely but very smallapartment in the first lockdown.
And I'd previously been workingfrom home as a freelance writer.
He had started working from homeas a, he does corporate training.
(06:40):
The two of us working from home in a tinyapartment was just not going to cut it.
So, when we had the summer where thingsopened up, we had friends of a friend,
had a gite in Nuits-Saint-Georges.
And so we went and spent aweek or maybe even two weeks
there, just to go for a holiday.
And I said, "Let's just go for a littlevisit to Burgundy and see what it's like."
And fortunately, we both really liked it.
(07:01):
We loved the owners of the gite who livearound the corner and have become friends
of ours, and we really liked the area.
The gite had quite a lot ofspace, it had three bedrooms and
it was a little terrace house.
So, when it became clear that therewas going to be another lockdown and
that they were looking for someone torent it, I put up my hand immediately
and we made the move quite quicklyactually from Paris to Burgundy.
It all happened within a couple of months.
(07:22):
And almost as soon as we gotthere, the second lockdown began,
and that was over the winter.
It was not ideal circumstance, wecouldn't really get around very
much, we couldn't see a lot, andyet it was absolutely beautiful.
And I think it's becauseof the beauty of Burgundy.
I mean, Burgundy's not an unknownregion by any means, but I
really think it's underrated bya lot of people, particularly
(07:44):
tourists coming to visit France.
I don't personally speak to a lot ofpeople who say, "Oh, I really want to
go and spend time in Burgundy." Youknow, they'll say Provence, always
Paris, you know, maybe some other areas.
Normandy, Provence, Paris.
Alsace as well is getting very popular.
Yeah, but Burgundy... this is the thing,I think people often will go to Bordeaux.
(08:06):
I personally, I reallylike Bordeaux and the area.
I just absolutely loved Burgundy.
It's very lush and green.
Yeah.
The produce was exceptional.
I really... Going to the localNuits-Saint-Georges market every Friday
morning, and I went every Friday morning.
I mean, during lockdown there wasreally not a lot else to do, and so I-
(08:27):
Right.
I would go to the market and I would comeback laden like a pack horse, with huge
bags of this absolutely gorgeous produceand then I would just spend the entire
weekend cooking and having fun with food.
And it was a really wonderful timefor me to explore recipes I hadn't had
a chance to do and things like that.
But it was because the quality ofthe food there is so fantastic.
(08:49):
The incredible cheeses.
You know, the wine of course.
And so we know about Burgundy,we know about the wine.
But I really think the landscapeand the quality of the produce and
the food is underrated as well.
So, we just had a wonderful time there.
The weather is fairly similar toParis and therefore not amazing.
Yeah.
I mean, if you like sunshineas I do, as an Australian.
So, you know, it would... It tendedtowards quite chilly in the summers
(09:12):
and not necessarily particularlyhot, but some people love that.
Sure.
Yeah, yeah.
if you want a part ofFrance that's not super hot-
... usually, you know, there are exceptions,but yes, Burgundy would be good.
Yeah.
It's perfect for that.
It's just very lush and green.
Really nice for sort of outdoor walks andoutdoor activities and things like that.
(09:32):
And obviously, it has so many beautifulchateaus, really beautiful little
villages and a lot of wonderfulrestaurants actually, as well.
We discovered there were quite a fewvillages where it would be quite a small
village, they wouldn't do much otherthan make wine as they all... All the
villages would make beautiful wine, butthere would be like one amazing restaurant
in that village and really amazing.
Yeah, I find Burgundy tobe kind of upscale overall.
(09:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, I agree with that.
That's the impression it gives whenyou, as a French person, when you visit.
Yeah.
You're like, "Oh, I've stepped into anupscale kind of lifestyle- that people
have." I'm not sure if the prices arereally outrageous compared to Paris or
compared to, I don't know, Provence or-
Mm-hmm.
... any other parts of France, but itfeels upscale, let's put it that way.
(10:19):
I absolutely agree.
I mean, for one thing the architectureis very notable, I remember being
there and looking around and thinking,"Oh, you can really tell that
historically there's been a lot ofmoney in this region because they've
invested in beautiful architecture."
And also things are very well lookedafter, so the villages are very clean,
(10:40):
and beautifully taken care of, and they'llhave lovely roses and things that I find
maybe in the south, some villages are alittle bit more rough around the edges.
Particularly, the village thatwe live in, Tavel, at the moment,
is a lovely little village.
It's a wine-making village as well.
Tavel, right?
Tavel, yeah.
We're not far from Avignon.
And it's also a wine-making village,but it feels so different to a-... a
(11:03):
Burgundy wine-making village, you know.
It feels rough around the edges ina charming way of its own, but yeah,
Burgundy is definitely very refined.
Yeah.
Tavel makes everyday wines.
They make reds, they make rosés.
Rosé, of course.
Do they make whites?
I'm not sure if they make white.
Not really.
Okay.
Not really.
I mean, it's mostly rosé.
(11:24):
There is a little bit of red, there's alittle bit of other, but it's mostly rosé.
And fine sort of table rosé, itis, but this is not Burgundy wine.
Right, right.
Tavel, you wouldn't pay more thanfive, six euros even for the famous
ones, you know, but in general.
Yeah.
Well, there is actually one amazingwinemaker in our village that's become
(11:46):
very, very well known internationallyand they run a little bit higher, but
again, nothing like Burgundy levels.
They would be 30 or 40 euros a bottle.
It's called Languelot.
Aha.
Yes.
And it's very, very hard to get.
You actually can't buyfrom the cellar door.
They don't sell direct, and it'svery hard to find it in shops.
Usually, you can only find itin restaurants, and there's one
(12:08):
restaurant in our village thatsells this particular wine.
So every time we go there forlunch, we order the Languelot.
So this is something that I'm not surelisteners understand, but in France,
there's several ways to sell your wine.
There are people who selltheir wines internationally.
These are the ones that you find at Costcoand in the US and Canada, et cetera.
(12:31):
These are big producers who could alwaysmake a few thousand bottles, you know,
predictably export them, et cetera.
Then you have the people who make wine tobe sold through grocery stores, and those
are also, usually fairly big producers.
(12:51):
Not as big as the exporters, but big.
And then you have the peoplewho sell to restaurants.
And those are the people whomake pretty small productions
comparatively, or they sell at the door.
So clearly this Languelot is in between.
They have probably enough to be soldto some restaurants, but they don't
(13:14):
have enough to sell directly becausethey don't make enough is the issue.
They don't have enough, bigenough production to sell
themselves, which is weird.
And there's also wine producersin the Southwest who pretty
much only sell themselves.
You can't buy it anywhere otherthan if you stop by and buy some.
This is what we loved finding in Burgundyactually, the winemakers who were
(13:37):
those smaller winemakers who weren'tmaking enough to be selling certainly
internationally or doing big amounts, butwere making absolutely beautiful wine.
And often quite, by Burgundystandards, really affordable wine.
Mm-hmm.
The way we found these wineswere through the locals.
The locals know what's what.
Particularly local winemakers, I mean,obviously, but local winemakers are
(13:59):
incredibly knowledgeable about thelocal wines, and they're very, you
know, even though they're trying tosell their own wine, they're very happy
to tell you about other winemakers.
They're really supportive of each other.
And so, particularly if you buy abottle or two of their wine, you know,
and show appreciation for them, butthey'll more than happily tell you about
other places to find really good wine.
They'll tell you about their favorite, andthey're really good at finding value, like
(14:21):
delicious wine that doesn't cost a lot.
We were buying somewonderful wine in Burgundy.
It's actually probably ruined us forwine anywhere else because through
our winemaker friends, we were findingwines that would be 12 euros a bottle,
15 euros a bottle, which is notsuper, super cheap, but nothing crazy.
That was absolutely delicious.
Mm-hmm.
And now by comparison looking at,it tasted like the kind of bottles
(14:45):
of wine you would get elsewherethat would be easily 30 or 40 euros.
It would be that kind of level of quality.
And we just found itthrough recommendation.
So I really recommend talking, going,doing some tastings, going to some
cellar doors, just chat to them.
Most people speak at least a bit ofEnglish, they're very welcoming, they're
very happy to discuss and give tips.
(15:05):
And also I've discovered winemakers,again, good taste goes in all directions,
they usually are very good at givingrestaurant recommendations as well.
So if you're looking for somewhere togo for lunch or a few times where we
would be going somewhere and doing atasting in the morning, we'd think,
"Where are we going for lunch?" We'relike, "We won't even bother looking.
We'll just talk to the winemaker in themorning and they'll tell us where we
should go," and they'll always know.
(15:26):
So those are my tips.
Yeah.
So you are a travel writer.
Talk a little bit about that,that part of your experience.
What sorts of publications have you done?
What sort of work do you do?
Sure.
I mainly work for magazines.
So I work a lot for somepublications in Australia.
Probably the main one is calledEscape, which is a, they have a number
(15:49):
of different formats, but they'rea weekly lift-out from a newspaper.
They also have a magazine every coupleof months and they have a great website.
So I do a lot of writing for them,but I also write for a number
of other publications as well.
And I'm also in the process of writing abook, which is in its very early stages,
but also a sort of food and travel focus.
So, they're the sort of areasthat I love writing about.
(16:11):
I love traveling and I love eatingand cooking, and so the extension of
sort of writing about those things andsharing what I've learned and what I
discover with other people has reallybeen something I've enjoyed doing.
So it's been really wonderful to beable to make a career out of that.
Sure.
Yeah.
So do you have a website as well?
I do.
I have a website.
It's alexlalak.com.
(16:31):
It's very straightforward.
And I have on there some of the articlesI've written, and sort of tips and things.
A lot of the articles I tend to write orthat I pitch to editors tend to be based
actually on either places that I've goneto and I always do a lot of research,
because, you know, I want to and becauseI love doing that, finding the best
places, talking to locals, and then Ilove sharing those through the articles.
(16:55):
Often, also through things that I getasked by people, particularly family
and friends, they'll often ask me foradvice if they're going somewhere.
And once I sort of realize what peopleare interested in, I think, "Hmm, I
should put that into an article andshare it with some other people."
So the articles on there are sortof combination of those things.
So what is it like living inProvence, living in Tavel?
(17:16):
It is wonderful.
It really... There'sno other way to put it.
I absolutely love it.
We're actually in theprocess of moving house.
Uh-huh.
So we're in Tavel at the moment,but only for a couple more weeks,
and then we will be in the heart ofProvence in a village called Robion.
Aha.
Yeah.
Robion is further east?
It is, yes.
(17:36):
So it's near Cavaillon.
It's near, some of the villages nearby,it's near a number of well-known villages.
L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue is well known,for its amazing antique shops and
antique market, so that's maybe10 minutes away from Robion.
It's in that sort of area.
Near Ménerbes is another famous one thatpeople love, it's a beautiful village.
(17:56):
It is wonderful livinghere, I have to say.
I really... as an Australian who lovessunshine, for me this is definitely
the part of France that has the mostsunshine, and I really appreciate that.
It really creates an atmosphereof warmth, not just in literal
warmth, obviously the summer, itdoes get very hot, I have to say.
Mm-hmm.
But it does just feel every day... weget something like, I believe, 300 days
(18:19):
of sunshine a year, is the statistic.
And I would believe that.
I feel like even all throughwintertime, it'll be very, very cold
outside, but the sky will be brightand blue and we'll get lots of sunny
days, so it's really beautiful.
And actually, I really recommend visitingthese areas in winter, actually, as well
as... or maybe not even necessarily theheart of winter, but in the shoulder
(18:40):
months, not just in summertime.
Actually, I would say that summer isperhaps my, if I had to pick one, maybe
my least favorite time to be here, inthe very peak of summer, that July,
August period, because it is just so hot.
It is so, so hot.
There tend to be a lot of visitors,which is nice, but it, you know, it
becomes- it starts to feel, you know,the markets are sort of overfilled
(19:01):
with people and it's hard to getaround and you just can't really live
life the way that you normally do.
I think we all... all the locals sigha little sigh of relief come, you know,
the 1st of September, La Rentrée, whensort of all the visitors go away and
suddenly the market has half as manypeople and you can get around and
talk to people and do what you want.
But yeah, those shoulder monthsparticularly, sort of April, May, and
(19:25):
September, October are really spectacular.
And winter is wonderful as well.
So, do you have favorite villagesto take people to when you have
family or friends visiting Provence?
Where do you take them to and, Imean, if they can't stay with you,
where do you tell them to stay?
Because that is the biggest question, iswhere do you stay when visiting Provence?
(19:47):
Because it's kind of a long arealike, you know, between Apt and,
and Avignon, really, there's a lot.
It's huge, actually.
I would actually probably say, myrecommendation, and this is a little
bit of a challenging recommendationbecause I realize not everybody
can do this, but I would probablysay don't try to do everything
in one trip if you can avoid it.
If you can come back more than once, Iwould really recommend doing that because
(20:11):
it is a huge area to try to fit in.
And sometimes, people will come andthen they'll spend literally one day
doing an hour, hour and a half driveto get somewhere, spend a couple of
hours somewhere, and then driving back.
You end up just spending all of your timedriving, you know, trying to get around.
So I wouldn't really recommendthat, and I think understanding
that there are really sort of threemain regions of Provence to explore.
(20:33):
There's the Luberon, which Robion,where we're moving to, is sort
of in the heart of, and that'sa well-known part of Provence.
There's the Alpilles, which is alovely area, and that's where you
find, you know, Saint-Rémy-de-Provenceand Arles and beautiful places
like that, Baux-de-Provence.
And then there's the, the partof Provence that's more the Cote
d'Azur, closer to the coastline.
And for me, those three areas are quiteseparate, particularly the Cote d'Azur
(20:55):
because it stretches so far along.
I would recommend really making that-if you're going to do a trip, just
do a trip focused on that area alone.
Perhaps the Luberon and the Alpilles,you could combine, but just be
prepared for a bit of driving.
And I find when we want to take peopleout, there are places in both...
I mentioned Saint-Rémy because welove, we love visiting there and
(21:15):
there are some beautiful restaurantsaround that we like to go to.
Baux-de-Provence is reallybeautiful as well, very spectacular.
And they're the sort of areas actuallythat when you're- even if you are doing
a bit of a long drive, the landscapeis so beautiful that it's actually
really lovely to drive through thoseareas and enjoy the landscape and get
to see, because it is quite different,the beautiful cliffs and the trees
(21:37):
are quite- it- it's just has quite adifferent feel to other parts of Provence.
Arles is actually reallywonderful as well.
It has a slightly wilderfeel to it somehow.
It's not quite as pristine as someof the other Provençal villages.
And it has some wonderful museums,some really fantastic restaurants
have started to open in that area,so that's another nice one to visit.
But if you're around the Alpilles,sorry, around the Luberon, there are
(21:59):
some wonderful spots around there.
We like heading... I mean, Apt isgreat and they have a beautiful
Saturday market that's worth visiting.
And actually there's a little village,probably about 15 minutes or so north
of Apt called Saint-Saturnin-lès-Apt.
Okay.
Saint-Saturnin-lès-Apt, okay.
It's quite a small village, but it'sbecoming more and more known, because
(22:22):
there's a little restaurant hotel.
They just opened the hotel sectionthere called Le Saint-Hubert.
And actually the beautiful owners of therestaurant have become friends of ours
just from going there and getting toknow them and they're absolutely lovely.
It's a couple, they're both chefs.
They opened the restaurantnot long before COVID.
Oh.
And poor things, they got it all setup, it was absolutely amazing, and
(22:45):
then COVID hit so they sort of didtheir best to get through that time.
To survive, yeah.
And to survive, and bless them, they did.
I mean, it wouldn't have been easy at all.
But they've continued and gone strengthto strength, and just this year they've
opened a little hotel above the restaurantwhich was originally part of the
building, which is really beautiful so Ireally recommend going there for lunch.
They've got a terrace at the back, avery small terrace, with a fabulous
(23:08):
view out over the valley of the Luberon.
So we love to go there andhave a lovely long lunch.
I'm a big fan of the long lunch.
Gazing out at their view and thengo for a walk around the village
after lunch, it's really beautiful.
Yeah.
That's part of the lifestyle, isyou take a long lunch and then
you have a... a stroll, you know?
(23:28):
Mm-hmm.
It's very fun.
Places like L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue,
La Fontaine de Vaucluse, all ofthose typical one, do you take
people to those as well or arethey just too many tourists?
No, we do, we do, becausethey're still beautiful.
There's a reason why they'repopular with tourists.
And I have to say, other than thosereally peak summer months, you know,
(23:49):
there'll be tourists in all these places,but actually it's not too much of a
problem, I don't find... it doesn't feelsort of overwhelmed by tourists at all.
Yeah.
No, we definitely go to all those places.
We love Gordes.
And again, Gordes can be a bit of atricky one, because it is quite small and
when it's busy with tourists, it can bequite hard to move around and see things.
There's a very, very beautiful five-starhotel in Gordes right on the cliff side.
(24:13):
Airelles, I think is the hotel group.
It's A-I-R-E-L-L-E-S.
Okay.
Okay.
And it is very, very expensive.
You know, if you were able to staythere, then I would highly recommend
it, but I think that's probablyout of most people's budgets.
But what is wonderful and what we liketo do is actually go there just for,
(24:35):
you know, a coffee in the afternoonand a little dessert or go for a little
cocktail or just go and do something,because they have a wonderful little
terrace bar that you can go to.
There are two wonderfulrestaurants as well, but again,
they tend to be a little pricey.
But if you go to the bar, you canorder a little dessert, order a little
coffee, enjoy the view, enjoy theatmosphere, and still have that five-star
(24:55):
experience, and it's a really, reallywonderful way to experience Gordes.
Wonderful.
I didn't know about this.
Next time I'm in Gordes, I will try it.
Oh, I thoroughly recommend it.
It really feels very special.
It's a lovely way to see it.
Okay, more recommendations like that?
I love those...
We have, I have so many recommendations.
(25:17):
We have so many different littleplaces that we like taking people to.
Another place that I really enjoyand I really recommend visiting,
which is actually going to bevery close to our new home in the
village of Oppede, is a beautifulwinery called Mas des Infermières.
and it's actually owned by theHollywood film director, Ridley Scott.
(25:39):
Le Mas des Infermières à Oppede,c'est une cave à vin à Oppede.
Very good.
So that's a good place to stopand have... Enjoy some local wine?
Oh, it's lovely.
They do a really nice selection there,which is one of the things I like.
Sometimes when you go to wineries,depending on what their produce is
like, they might only make rosé andmaybe a little bit of other things.
(26:00):
What I really like here is theymake a really wonderful rosé, just
a really good standard table rosé.
They also make a really lovely sparklingrosé, which actually incidentally we
had as our sparkling wine at our weddingearlier this year, because we love this
winery, it was very special for us.
So we really love that wine, butthey also make really nice red wines
(26:22):
and I think they might have starteddoing one or two whites as well.
So, basically everyone's coveredregardless of what you like.
But they're just, they'revery warm, very welcoming.
The staff speak excellent English.
They happily give youa taste of everything.
There's also within the main sort of cavewhen you first enter, which is a beautiful
building, a few sort of bits of Hollywoodmemorabilia that Ridley Scott's put in,
(26:46):
which sounds a little bit cheesy, andto be honest, I would not have been very
into, but it's actually quite lovely.
There are some reallybeautiful pieces that he has.
Apparently, he sends pieces of costumesand things from his films and things-
Cool.
... that he's held onto.
It's actually really cool.
When you go there, if you mightbe able to persuade them if you're
there, and it's a quiet day and youget lucky, but otherwise they have
certain weekends where they do tours.
(27:07):
But if you can do a behind-the-scenestour, they'll take you and show
you where they make the wine.
But also if you go downstairs, they'vegot an incredible room where they
store hundreds of barrels of wine.
And then there's another beautifulroom that they use for, like, meetings
and things and it has a lot morememorabilia and things down there.
So, if you can get a littlebackstage tour, I recommend doing
it, because we've done that a coupleof times and it's been lovely.
(27:29):
But even just to go and taste the winesand just have a little experience.
Do they sell these tours and winetastings, or do you just taste and
buy a few bottles the same way?
You just taste.
Yeah, it's all free.
It's all free.
They're very welcoming.
I mean, you know, these places youcould go and taste and you don't
even have to buy any bottles.
There's no expectation there, but...
(27:50):
That's true.
They would like you to, though.
It's delicious.
Yeah, I would recommend it, becausethey have really delicious wines,
but there's no actual requirement.
And often we're bringing friendswith us who are traveling and
it's quite hard taking bottleswith you when you're traveling.
So-
Yeah.
... you know, they might maybe takeone bottle, but you know, the
people in these places understandthat and it's completely fine.
(28:11):
Actually, on their website it says,"Accessible without appointment. The
shop is open all year round. View ouropening times here." So I'll just put
a link to their website and you candecide if you want to make a stop or not.
And Oppede is a lovely town.
Oppede-le-Vieux is-
Oh, it's charming.
... is must see as well.
Oh, it's gorgeous.
Yeah, absolutely gorgeous.
(28:31):
And even just driving around, so thisis another thing that I would really
recommend if you come to visit Provence,is you really should rent a car.
It's very, very hard toget around without a car.
Yeah.
There are some buses.
There are, I think, some taxis.
I've never taken one, andI've never really seen one,
but apparently they exist.
(28:51):
What I tell people is either you hirea guide who's going to take you around
for a few days, or you do day trips.
You could do day tripsfrom Avignon, for example.
You stay in Avignon, you hire adifferent guide to take you to, or
the same guide, to take you to dodifferent things different days.
But you need a car.
(29:11):
It's, this is not, you know.
And you need to be fairly comfortabledriving on narrow, windy roads,
because that's what you have there.
I mean, if I remember correctly, theroad between Rubion and L'Isle-sur
la Sorgue is one of these wherepeople think they can drive like 100
kilometers an hour, and they shouldn't.
They will also... I think whatyou just need to be prepared for
(29:34):
as well is just don't stress.
You just drive in your ownway, just drive carefully.
And if anybody comes up behind you andis tailing you, which unfortunately
does happen quite a lot on theFrench roads, don't worry about it.
That person will go around you probablyat speed as soon as they're able to.
Yep.
I find this all the time, so Ijust, if someone comes up behind
(29:55):
me, I don't panic about it.
I just keep driving the way that I'mdriving, and I know that they'll go
around me and speed off, and that's fine.
And just don't get upsetabout it or stressed by it.
Usually, I just say, "I'm ahead ofyou, sweetheart. Just find a way to get
around me." If I can pull over, I will,you know, but yeah, I was here first.
Absolutely.
Occasionally, I mean,sometimes that is the best way.
(30:16):
If you just pull over and let themgo past to give yourself that bit
of space, and just as, becausethis should be enjoyable as well.
You should be enjoying the driveand enjoying the landscape,
so don't let it be stressful.
But also, don't let that stopyou from driving, because I
really think it's worth it.
And the Vaucluse, I would say,on a bicycle is not ideal.
These roads, there's a lotof very aggressive drivers.
(30:39):
I wouldn't do a lot of cycling inthe Vaucluse, unless I'm with a
guide who knows exactly where they'regoing and will take you off, you
know, around, away from those roads.
I agree.
And again, the distancesare really quite far.
You really need to be very realistic,because I think doing a bicycle tour in
a small part of an area, for example,around Apt, there are some really,
(31:00):
really beautiful bicycle tracks.
Actually, right through the Luberon,they're putting in more and more
bicycle trails and whatever.
That's lovely, but that's not reallygoing to get you from A to B very much,
because it actually is quite a distanceto get between a lot of these villages.
So I think a car is necessary.
Yeah.
I think while saying that as well, andwhat we tend to do when we have people
staying with us or friends in the areaand we want to meet up with them, what
(31:23):
we tend to do is don't be too ambitious.
I think, really probablyvisiting one place in a day is
probably quite enough, maybe two.
I really wouldn't try to visit morethan two, two places in one day,
unless they're very close together.
It's just too much.
I usually would like to do something nicein the morning, so maybe go to a market
(31:44):
that I know that's on that day, or goto a village or a town that has a museum
I want to visit or something like that.
We have a nice morning activity.
We'll go and have a nice long lunch,because I love a long lunch, and
I think that's really important.
And then in the afternoon, often aftera morning of exploring, a long lunch,
you're full of food, you've had a coupleof glasses of wine, there's not really a
(32:05):
lot that you want to do in the afternoon.
Let yourself have a bit of a rest.
So maybe go and do something small,you know, you can stop somewhere, go
for a little walk, something like that.
But then go back to wherever you'restaying, relax, enjoy yourself, you know.
Don't push it too hard, because that's howwe approach it here as people living here.
You know, we enjoy the day butdon't expect too much of it.
Yeah, a lot of places where you'regoing to be staying, be they
(32:26):
hotels or Airbnbs or whatever,are going to have a swimming pool.
So go relax by the pool.
Make the most of it.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
You know, enjoy the garden, beingoutdoors or, you know, sit and
read a book or have a nap, I mean.
Life in Provence is about enjoyingthings, but also just enjoying your
(32:47):
own day, enjoying your own life,eating good food, resting, relaxing,
just having a really pleasant time.
You don't need to tick everythingoff on your to-do list every time.
That's why I said, you know, evenif you don't know if you're going to
be able to come back another time,let's be optimistic and say that
you will, and just pick a few thingsthat you want to do and then maybe
leave the others for another time.
(33:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a good excuse to come back.
Maybe share some advice thatyou have for people who are
hoping to also move to France.
What are some things they should know?
Who is the ideal candidateto move to France?
The few ideal candidatesin your experience?
Mm-hmm.
I feel like in many ways, to be honest, Imean, an ideal candidate to move to France
(33:29):
is someone, this might sound very obvious,but someone who really wants to do it.
I think really wanting to movespecifically to France, you know,
wanting to, having an understanding alittle bit of what French life really
means and what life will be like here,I think, is really important in advance.
So I would, for one thing, I woulddefinitely recommend visiting at least
(33:50):
once, if not numerous times prior toplanning a visit, just so that you can
really get an understanding for what...what it feels like to be in France.
And try to come for, not for aweekend or a few days or a, you
know... Try to actually come andspend a week or a couple of weeks.
If you're able to come and spend amonth in France ahead of moving, just
to come and, again, get a real feel forit, I think that really helps a lot.
(34:12):
It is not absolutely essential tospeak French, but it definitely
helps, particularly outside of Paris.
And I think even in Paris as well,I think the French have a certain
expectation that... that peoplewho are living in their country
will have some level of French.
And quite frankly, Ithink that's pretty fair.
So I think that's definitely important.
(34:33):
If I moved to Australia and Ididn't try to learn any English,
you'd think, "Oh, this person'snot going to do great," right?
Absolutely.
And it just makes life harder foryou than it really needs to be.
Having said that, again, I wouldn'tbe afraid to do it, if you haven't
learnt French or you only have verybasic French and you really, really
wanna move to France, go for it, butmake an effort with the language.
(34:55):
And I find so often with localsthat they appreciate effort so much.
Yeah.
So even though my French is not greatand I make so many mistakes still, they
don't mind because they can see that I'mmaking an effort and I'm really trying
to communicate in French and trying tounderstand French language and culture,
and I think that really means a lot.
I find, actually French peopleare so much warmer and kinder than
(35:17):
they sometimes get credit for.
I think maybe there's a little bit ofa... a brusqueness there sometimes that,
that might come across as being rude.
I mean, sometimes, look, sometimesFrench people are rude, but sometimes
people in all countries are rude as well.
There are plenty ofAustralians who are rude.
So that definitely happens, and I thinkyou're more likely to get that kind of
(35:37):
experience, I think, if you come in anddon't take any effort or time to sort of
assimilate, even as a tourist, you know?
I think even as a tourist, smallthings, you know, being able to say
please or thank you or just little,little things in French I think
would make such a difference, and Ithink people really appreciate that.
So, I think having the right mindset isreally important for moving to France.
(36:00):
I think planning isreally important as well.
As we talked about, you know, I startedoff in Paris, and then we made the
move to Burgundy for a year, whichwe loved, but it wasn't quite right.
And we thought about moving back to Paris,but I'd always had this little hankering
for the South of France in my heart.
And so we moved down and gave it atry, and then have discovered that
we absolutely love it down here.
(36:20):
But that, I really recommenddoing that, not necessarily being
completely committed to, "I'm movingto Paris, and that's the end of it."
Yeah.
Maybe that will be right for you.
Maybe it won't and be open to maybe tryingsome different places, moving around.
I have another friend who's Australianwho lived in Paris for a couple of
years and went back to Australia,and she's come back to France and
(36:41):
was planning to live in Paris again.
And she just got back to there and said,"Actually, this isn't right for me."
And so she's currently in the South andreally loving it, along the Cote d'Azur.
And I think probably she's going tobuild a life on the Cote d'Azur now.
And she's found that really suits her.
But she was really open to thatchange, and when she got to Paris,
didn't think, "Okay, I'm not enjoyingit here," for whatever reason.
(37:02):
I think maybe the city atmospherewasn't right for her or whatever, but
didn't write off France as a whole.
Mm-hmm.
She just sort of looked for where...Because I think this is the other
thing with France, and, you know,as a tourist you can see this,
but it's really the differentparts of France are so different.
That's right.
There's a thread that holds them alltogether, absolutely, but the experience
(37:23):
and the environment and so many thingsare so completely different that I think,
you know, I really feel like almost anyonecould find somewhere in France that they
really loved, certainly to visit if notto live, you know, because I think you
can have from living in the Alps, toliving on the Cote d'Azur, to being in the
cities, it is really, really different.
Or Bretagne or Normandy or...
(37:46):
But... Exactly.
... or the Basque Coast.
I mean, you know, it's acountry of a lot of differences.
Paris is amazing.
I love Paris.
But...
Me too.
... I would be miserableliving in Paris full time.
I cannot do it.
It's too high-octane.
You run into situations that I finddifficult to handle all the time.
(38:09):
Whereas if it's occasionally where I live,it doesn't, I mean, I find I get over it.
But in Paris, it happens over and overand over again, and I don't like it.
Like, I just can't... But,you know, I'm a country girl.
That's just...
I was born and raised in a big city.
Toulouse is a big city by Frenchstandards, but, as soon as I lived
in the countryside, I was like, "Oh,that's what I like." That's for me.
(38:33):
I feel the same way actually, becauseI've always lived in cities as well,
including cities like New York, you know.
I've really lived the big city sort ofexperience, and I loved that in ways,
but I just could not do it right now.
And I felt the same waywhen I got to the country.
I think there was a part of methat just went, "Oh," just...
Yes.
I just suddenly relaxed a littlebit, and I think it's something
(38:54):
that I keep realizing here.
Particularly, I think because my husbandand I both work from home, so we're
not commuting to and from work, we'requite flexible with our schedules.
You know, we have a lot of benefitsthat we're very, very grateful for.
But it's also made me realizethat we... we don't have a huge
amount of stress in our life.
I mean, of course there's some there,there's always stress with life and a
(39:16):
toddler running around and whatever.
But not in the way that I think atother times in my life, I've sometimes
felt really stressed and, you know,busy and pulled in lots of directions.
And I feel like sometimes life in aFrench village, you know, it lacks some
of the excitement that you get from citylife or from living in other places,
and so you have to sort of accept that.
But also it comes with a sense ofcalm that is so soothing and so
(39:39):
wonderful, and I really enjoy that.
Yeah.
And it's like with children, you know,sometimes you have to, you have to
let your kids entertain themselves.
Yes.
It's important that they find waysto entertain themselves because
that's how you discover what youlike and what... And it's the
same with living in a quiet place.
Like... there's not alwayssomething entertaining,
(40:01):
reaching out to entertain you.
It's you thinking about, "Okay,what would make this day pleasant?
What would make this day nice?" Andyou think of it yourself, which is
a wonderful way to live, I think.
It absolutely is, and I thinkthe same thinking can actually
be applied to going on a vacationas well, you know, the holiday
(40:22):
approach, particularly in Provence.
Not every minute and every day needsto be filled with activities as well.
There's actually a lot to do in Provence,and it really, to be honest, is one of the
reasons I really have enjoyed moving here.
Burgundy is, as I said, incrediblybeautiful and I love living there,
but for me, there wasn't quiteenough variety in activities to
live there long-term, whereas inProvence, there are so many options.
(40:44):
Always stuff to do.
From cultural things you can do, youknow, museums you can visit, the markets.
I'm an absolute market junkie,let me tell you, so-... I'm always
happy to go to markets, and thereare so many to pick from here.
But also a lot of wonderful outdoorsthings you can do, from cycling to
kayaking to all sorts of things.
But you also don't needto do things all the time.
(41:05):
I think it is, like you said, I thinkwhen you were talking about where to
stay or what kind of accommodationwould be recommended, I really recommend
somewhere that has a little bit ofoutdoor space, a garden, maybe a
swimming pool if you're here in summer.
Definitely a swimming pool, actually,if you're here in summer, I really...
Yes.
I thoroughly recommend that.
But somewhere that you can comfortably goback to and enjoy the space, relax, sit
(41:29):
outside, like I said, sit and read a bookor, you know, sit and have a little gin
and tonic in the afternoon in the garden.
Something like that I think isreally, really important to have those
restful times, places where you can gowalking, even just a beautiful village
that you can go and walk around.
I think that's one of the nicestactivities you can do here, is just
going from, just going for a walk,just a simple stroll and the beautiful
(41:51):
things that you'll see, and theexperience doesn't need to be structured.
It can just be very loose and relaxed, andit will be really, actually some of the
most memorable things you'll do, I think.
Yeah, you can be in the moment.
Well, it sounds like you'veadjusted to the Mediterranean
lifestyle very, very well.
I've done my best, I mean,it's not hard to adapt to.
(42:14):
It's a beautiful wayto live, I must admit.
Glorious.
Absolutely.
Well, Alex, we have been talking almostan hour, so we have to say goodbye.
But I hope people visit your website,Alex Lalak, read your articles.
Let me know when your book comes out.
I'll link to it in the show notes, andall the recommendations you've shared will
(42:34):
be in the show notes for this episode.
Thank you for inspiring us.
A travel writer is an inspirer.
That's a great job you have, you know?
It's like, you make people feel better.
I tell you, it is a lot of fun.
Inspiring them to dothings, it's wonderful.
Hmm.
It is really lovely.
Merci beaucoup, Alex.
De rien.
(42:55):
Merci, Annie.
Au revoir.
Merci, au revoir.
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing that.
You can see them at patreon.com/joinus.
(43:19):
And a special shout-out this week to mynew Join Us in France champions, Jolyn,
who joined at the Groupies du Podcastyearly level, and Tamar May, who was a
boot camper, so I know her personally.
Bonjour, Tamar.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I
would love to have you pledge more soyou can have access to more rewards.
(43:42):
This week, I shared two extra pieces ofcontent, one called Access Restrictions
at Notre-Dame de Paris, and the other: How to Use an eSIM When Visiting France. (43:47):
undefined
And this one is more likea step by step, what is it?
How it works?
Will it do this?
Will it not do that?
Et cetera.
I think it's going to be very helpfulfor people who've never tried this
before and are a bit hesitant, but youdo need data when you visit France.
(44:09):
So to become a patron,go to patreon.com/joinus.
And to support Elyse, goto patreon.com/elysart.
Somebody left this review of mytour this week, and if you want to
read more of these reviews, go tojoinusinfrance.com/vmr, which stands for
(44:30):
VoiceMap Reviews, about my Latin Quartertour, "Great tour of the Latin Quarter.
My only regret is that I had to breakthe tour into two days and did not
arrive in time to see the Roman arena.
Next time.
Many thanks." Yeah, sometimesyou get there and it's closed.
That's just how it is.
About Le Marais, "Great tour.I loved the engaging style of
(44:53):
storytelling and details provided."
About the Saint-Germain-des-Prés tour: "An amazing tour to special hidden places (44:56):
undefined
and amazing corners that we would havenever come across on our own. Thank you."
Yes, thank you very much reviewers, Itry to make these tours truly something
that not everybody knows about.
(45:17):
Podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website,
and it's best for me because that way Iget to keep more of what you pay instead
of giving it mostly to Apple or Google.
But if you buy from my boutique, itis a manual process, so don't expect
it to be instant like it would be ifyou were buying directly from the app,
(45:37):
but most of you listening plan theirtrip at least a few days in advance.
Some of you, it's morelike a few months, right?
So you're probably not in a big rush.
To use your codes, open VoiceMap, bottomright it says Tour Codes, tap on it, enter
the code, download the tour, and this isa digital product that you own forever.
(45:58):
Even if you change phones, forexample, log into your VoiceMap
account and you can download allthe tours you own again forever.
Think of these tours like walking aroundParis with your French friend, a friend
who loves history, architecture, andart, and can't wait to share it with you.
Take me in your pocketwith my VoiceMap Tours.
(46:18):
And if you're planning a trip to Franceand you need personalized advice, you can
hire me to be your itinerary consultant.
It's a very busy time ofyear for these consults.
Don't delay too much or thespots are all going to be full.
Again, you can book that by goingto joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
(46:39):
All right, let's have an importantupdate on tourist rentals in France.
If you're planning to stay at an Airbnbor short-term rental in France, listen up.
Some new national rules are being rolledout that might explain why the place
you booked suddenly becomes unavailable.
In 2024, the Le Meur law introduceda much stricter framework for
(47:06):
tourist rentals, especially incities where housing is tight.
Now, I'm not just talking about Airbnb.
This is for all shortterm tourist rentals.
I'm going to give you the basics,but if you own property in France and
you want to rent it out, talk to yourcity hall or notaire for the details.
Until now, whether or not youhad to declare a furnished rental
(47:30):
like an Airbnb or VRBO or Gites deFrance depended on where in France
the property was located and if itwas your primary residence or not.
But going forward, registration ismandatory across the whole country for
both primary and secondary residences.
There's going to be a national registryand an online system to handle it all.
(47:55):
It's expected to launch by May 20th, 2026.
So it's not today, but it's in a year.
There are also new energy efficiencyrequirements for all rentals, although
that's not coming into full force until2034, but it's getting rolled out as well.
The French legislature wants to preservehousing for local residents and also
(48:19):
improve the quality of the rental unitson the market, which means go after
slumlords, because we do have those.
So what does this mean for traveler?
Mostly that there will be fewershort term rentals eventually.
In large cities with lots of demandfrom visitors, the market for
short term rentals will mostly becaptured by folks who own several
(48:43):
units and make it their profession.
It'll probably go back to thesituation we had 10 years ago.
There were rental agencies whohandled short term rentals,
Airbnb swooped in and put a lotof these agencies out of business.
I think they'll make a comeback,because when visiting Nice for a week,
I'd rather deal with a local agencythan go through Airbnb, which is
(49:05):
impersonal and doesn't give a hoot aboutanything but their profits, really.
If you book a place that's not properlyregistered, the listing might disappear.
Now you have to admit, if you livedin a building in Paris that has
different people rolling in withtheir suitcases every few days, you
would know exactly what's happeningand you'd be sick of it too.
(49:26):
I mean, you know, whoever owns thatapartment has the right to use it
in any way they like, if they complywith local rules and regulations.
And if they're not doingthis, goodbye listing.
And if the building is in a buildingwith a condo board, that's a
copropriété, the building itself maynow ban short term tourist rentals
(49:48):
with two thirds vote of the owners.
Also, cities now have the power to lowerthe rental limit for primary residences.
Previously, you could rent outyour main home for up to 120 days
a year, but now that might be cutto 90 days depending on the city.
Bottom line, if you're using shortterm rentals in France, especially
(50:12):
in high demand areas like Paris,Lyon, Nice, you may notice fewer
listings or changing rules.
Book early, read the fine print, andif your booking is suddenly canceled,
it may be due to these new regulations.
If you need a place with akitchen, consider renting an
appart hôtel instead of an Airbnb.
(50:34):
An appart hôtel in France is a hybridbetween a hotel and a furnished apartment.
It includes a small kitchen, living area,private bathroom, offering more space and
flexibility than a standard hotel room.
Services like reception, cleaning,and breakfast are sometimes included.
You can book them for two nightsor two weeks or however long.
(50:56):
In Paris, Citadine are one such option.
Another option to consider, verystrongly, is a home exchange program.
I will release an episode aboutthat in the next few months,
hopefully sooner, but we'll see.
I think home exchange is anexcellent choice for people
who want to live like a local.
How about you actually stay insomebody's home and see how they live?
(51:19):
You can't get any morelocal than that, can you?
You can search for hotels thathave small kitchens in Booking
or in your favorite search tool.
There will be more and moreof those in France because
there's a need for them now.
Visitors like having a fridge,a hot plate, microwave, a coffee
maker so they can have some oftheir meals in their accommodations.
(51:41):
And not to forget, somewhere to make tea.
A kettle, they need a kettle, and sodo I. If you want to be sure you're
staying somewhere legal and safe, lookfor listings with a registration number
and good communication from the host.
France is still very much open tovisitors, of course, but it's tightening
(52:02):
the rules to make sure locals still havea place to live that they can afford.
And there is nothing wrong with that.
Many thanks to podcast editors Anneand Christian Cotovan, who produced
the transcripts and the audio.
Next week on the podcast, anepisode about the best of the
Savoie department with Elyse.
You can join us as we delve into theenchanting Savoie department in France.
(52:27):
We explore the rich history, thebreathtaking landscapes, renowned
ski resorts, charming villagesand delightful culinary offerings.
Thank you so much for listening andI hope you join me next time so we
can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
(52:48):
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!