March 30, 2025 • 61 mins
What happens when a mother, daughter, and best friend set out on a road trip across France to celebrate a milestone birthday? In Celebrating 75 Years with Vanessa Christman, host Annie Sargent talks to Vanessa, a librarian from California, about the trip of a lifetime: Mother-Daughter Celebrating a 75th Birthday in France.
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Vanessa planned this adventure around her mom’s long-time love of France. They landed at Charles de Gaulle, picked up a rental car, and hit the road. From charming Burgundy villages like Tournus, to the sparkling Mediterranean coast near Martigues, to the lavender-scented hills of Provence and the grand castles of the Loire Valley — they saw it all.
Along the way, they visited abbeys, tasted Gigondas wine, created custom perfumes in Grasse, explored markets in Carpentras, and dined at a Michelin-starred restaurant in Ardèche. Vanessa shares what went right (most things), what went wrong (French tacos!), and her top tips for traveling with someone who has reduced mobility.
This episode is full of practical travel advice and heartfelt reflections. It’s especially helpful for anyone dreaming of a multigenerational trip to France.
Subscribe to Join Us in France Travel Podcast for more stories and tips from real travelers. Whether you’re planning a special celebration or just love French culture, this one’s for you.
Table of Contents for this Episode
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
This is Join Us in France, episode539, cinq cent trente-neuf.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Vanessa Christman about her
(00:35):
incredible journey through Francecelebrating her mother's 75th birthday.
From exploring historic abbeys andcharming medieval towns, to indulging in
some wine, wine tastings, and creatingcustom perfumes in Grasse, Vanessa shares
all the details of their road trip.
This episode is packed with traveltips, heartfelt moments, and
(00:58):
practical advice for anyone planninga similar adventure or just wants
the inspiration, especially whentraveling with elderly family members.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
(01:22):
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that and myboutique: joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And remember, Patreon supporters get thepodcast ad-free and as soon as it's ready.
Click on the link in the show notesto enjoy this Patreon reward today.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Vanessa, I'll
(01:45):
discuss some restaurant experiencesI had while in Paris, including
one that was entirely new to me.
It was very strange.
I also want to tell you about my newVoiceMap tour, because it's very cool.
And a bit of a rant aboutthe state of tours in Paris.
(02:13):
Bonjour, Vanessa Christman andwelcome to Join us in France!
Bonjour Annie.
I am really excited to be here.
Thank you so much.
So you had a trip in France, withyour family, and your trip took place
June 5th through June 18th, 2024.
Right?
That is correct.
Yes.
(02:33):
Okay, and when I asked you for agood title, you said 'Celebrating
75 years with a French road trip'.
So that sounds lovely.
Who was turning 75?
You were not, clearly!
My mother.
My mother was turning 75.
She actually turned 75 in Januaryof this past year, and she had never
(02:56):
been out of the country before.
Oh.
She's been a Francophile for most of herlife and had read about it when she was
a child, and still read pretty much anyhistorical book you can find about France.
She will read and so, her kind ofpitch to me was if you help do the
planning and drive me around, I willhelp make a trip to France happen
(03:20):
because I've always wanted to go.
Oh, that's wonderful.
I seized that opportunity.
That's really truly wonderful.
So, it was just you and yourmother and a friend as well.
Yes, I had a friend ask if shecould join the trip, about kind of
midway into the planning process.
She's a long time family friend who's mybest friend and my mom's other daughter.
(03:43):
So it was so wonderful to have her along.
Fantastic.
That's great.
I have one daughter and one of herfriends is also, feels like a, you
know, not quite a daughter, but I havea lot of affection for her, for sure.
Absolutely.
And it worked out well because we learnedthat we travel extremely well together.
And so, future trips,she's invited by default.
(04:05):
Fantastic.
So what, where did you go?
I want to get into that first andalso how did you plan this trip?
What did you do to plan this trip?
Well, where we went, it's reallyhard to kind of describe it quickly.
It's, we kind of planned it around theareas where my mom most wanted to see, and
(04:25):
kind of pit stops in between those areas.
Just because we weren't, wedidn't want to be stuck in a car.
You know, we're Californian, sowe're going to drive everywhere.
I tried to pitch public transportation,but my mom was a bit nervous.
She was most interestedin seeing Provence, the
Mediterranean, and Loire Valley.
Those were her threemust-see destinations.
And so, we flew into Charles deGaulle, rented a car, did a pit
(04:50):
stop in Burgundy, which is an area Iwanted to see, and it worked out well.
Spent some days in the Mediterranean,and in Provence, and then drove
all the way to the Loire Valleyand spent some time there.
We just, we ping ponged around prettymuch, a lot, a huge chunk of France,
actually, around 2000 miles in total.
Wow.
Yeah, that's quite a bit.
So, you rented your car right from CDG.
(05:14):
Yes.
Right, from landing from California.
Well, we did spend an overnight next tothe hotel just to decompress, and then
the next morning we rented our car.
Okay, so you spent one night nearthe airport before you set off.
Yes.
Because that's a, I mean,from California, that's a lot.
Jet lag really hits you, right?
(05:34):
It does.
I have a really nice little app that Ifound that, I don't want to go in too much
of a tangent of it, but it is used, itwas developed for astronauts, actually.
So, you kind of put in your flight timesand it tells you a few days before when
to go to sleep, and when to wake up to tryto like permute you to the new time zone.
Oh.
I've done it in a few trips toFrance and it works pretty well.
(05:56):
I was strict on my travel companions.
And jet lag wasn't too much of an issue,but still wanted to have that rest day.
That's cool.
So first question is,what's the name of the app?
And second question is, how manytrips to France have you had?
The name of the app is Time Shifter.
Highly recommended.
And you don't even have to be toostrict to adhere to their time
recommendations, but it's been helpful.
(06:18):
I've been to France twice before.
One was like a short trip upfrom above Barcelona and the
cost area, the Costa Brava.
We wanted, we went into seeCarcassonne, and a town whose name
I can't remember, I wanted to seethe Cathar Castles in that area.
I'm kind of a history and archeology nerd.
(06:39):
Okay.
I love anything to do with that.
So, we went and traveled up there,and then I had been to the Loire
Valley a few years after that, itwas in November, it was during our
Thanksgiving break, and it was withmy kids and we had a wonderful time.
But, yeah, Loire Valley, it remindedme of where I lived, in November, which
was very pastoral, but also misty.
(07:00):
And you, you really miss something, notseeing all the gardens in bloom, so...
That's true.
Was still a great trip.
We went to the city ofNantes, which I love Nantes.
It's a fantastic city,and the kids loved it too.
How many kids do you have?
I have two kids.
I have one who is now 17, whichis really hard for me to believe,
and I have a 11-year-old.
(07:23):
He was, I think six at the time.
Okay.
And he was a hit.
He was a hit.
We had him go in front of us andsay the bonjour to everybody.
We called him our Bonjour ambassador.
And he just, the French loved him.
He helped us get a fantastic reception.
I remember being in France and awaitress, like, gave him her phone number.
(07:45):
He went down to meet the chef.
I mean, he had the redcarpet rolled out for him.
So, he loves France too.
Fantastic.
All right, so you had one night'ssleep near the airport, near CDG.
Correct.
What was the name of the hotel?
People are going to askthese sorts of questions.
The Ibis styles.
Alright.
Across the way it's, I think hassome sort of a vague Star Wars theme.
(08:08):
We've stayed there before,it's perfectly fine.
Yeah, so you just walked to that.
We took the shuttle.
You took a shuttle, okay.
A very fast shuttle, but it wasgood to get a little adrenaline
rush right after the flight.
So you took the shuttle, you had anight's sleep, then the next morning
you picked up your car and left.
Excellent.
(08:29):
Okay.
And you made your way to Burgundy.
So I don't know, shall we take this inthe order you did it or by your favorites?
Do it in the order, I think that typeof road trip order might be helpful.
So, let's do it that way.
Tell me about the first place you visited.
So we first visited the town ofTournus which was kind of our pit stop.
(08:54):
It's in southern Burgundy, I wouldsay about 30 minutes north of Macôn.
The reason we stopped there wasn'tnecessarily, it was really just
logistical, I had to think about howmany hours I thought my mom could
really sit in the car after a longtrip and if she's too overtired.
But then again, the next daywe were headed down to the
(09:14):
Mediterranean and so I didn't wanta huge chunk of time the next day.
So, you know I reallywanted to stay in Dijon.
But it still would've been too longof a drive down to the Mediterranean.
So, it's like, let's pick someplace in between that seems still
interesting, at least has somesort of tourism infrastructure.
Right, so Tournus is T-O-U-R-N-U-S.
(09:38):
Yes.
Not a town I visited, so youhave to tell me what it's like.
Okay, I loved it.
I felt pretty proud of myselffor finding this place.
It's known amongst just regional tourists,apparently, for a really beautiful
abbey that I believe, and I can check mynotes, first built in the 10th century,
(10:01):
it was built around some pilgrims fromthe, or some monks from the north of
France who came down brought the relicsof Saint-Philibert, and I don't know
my saints very well, so I don't...
Me neither.
That Saint was particularly known for,but they were fleeing viking invasions.
And so they came downto Tournus, I believe.
The King of France at the time, gavethem some land, next to the Saône river.
(10:25):
And they built an Abbey to housethese relics and it became kind of
one of the pilgrimage destinations.
I think the town itself to renew wasa Roman town right along the river.
It was shipping outpost.
It had a lot of prehistory in the area.
And so the monks built this beautifulstone abbey, and the town kind
of really developed alongside it.
(10:47):
I have never been to Burgundy before,but in my head, this is kind of
what a Burgundian town looks like.
On Saturday, the day we woke up,there was a market day that kind
of wound through the streets.
The Abbey was almost that kind of a, itwas like a bit of a hill, and the abbey
is of course at the top of the hill.
And it just, it does havesome tourism infrastructure.
(11:09):
I know some of the rivertours stopped there.
It's a port.
But it still seemed prettyresidential as well.
So it was a very, very good mix ofa few tourists, but also just life.
Life was happening.
Yeah.
We kind of walk through the streets, therewas, I can't remember what it's called,
(11:30):
but it's one of those medieval hospitals,that I know they have in Beaune.
And yeah, you know, it's reallyhard for me to describe it.
It was a little bit of a blur.
We rented an Airbnb, which was lovelythough, that was my first experience
in, and two steep stairs for my mom.
But we made it work.
We really just kind of usedthat as a recovery day.
We walked around the town, we wentto the main square and ate at a cafe.
(11:53):
The locals were very, very friendly,very, you know, reserved, but
also very polite and very helpful.
And the next morning before weleft, we got up and we went to the
abbey, which was, I've been to myfair share of abbeys and churches,
and this was just really unique.
I mean, you could tellthe construction was old.
(12:14):
It was, you know, in multiplephases it was preserved.
A lot of the stained glass was, I won'tsay primitive looking, but you know,
it didn't have the ornate scenes, butit was still just really beautiful.
It's also known for having a veryatmospheric crypt underneath.
And that was kind of a, one of the...my mother didn't go just because of the
(12:36):
stairs, but my friend Jamie and I went.
And we were really excited and takingvideos and then just the lights went
out and so she screamed a little.
It became a little bit out of like aHalloween movie a bit, but they came
back on and we felt a little bit better.
But it was another way to get theadrenaline pumping for a long road trip
is getting yourself locked in a darkcrypt underneath the atmospheric abbey.
(13:00):
It was just, you know,I really recommended.
Before we actually went into Tournus,there was a, I don't know if you want to
call it a wine store, but maybe it's aco-op where a lot of the producers from
Southern Burgundy have their cellar wines.
And so we did a tasting there, too.
And I really like those, I mean,come on, it's Burgundian wine, so
(13:21):
I'm going to find something to like,even though I'm from California.
It was fantastic.
It was a highlight.
And it was a really interesting town.
Not totally overrun, but just beautiful.
Pretty nice.
And the wine, the prices of the wine?
Do you remember, was itreasonable compared to California?
Yeah.
You know, my friend Jamie, she andher husband belonged to a number
of wine clubs in Napa Valley andSonoma Valley, and they spoil me.
(13:46):
But it was extremely reasonablein terms of, you know, $15,
$20, fantastic bottles of wine.
You know, reds, sparklings, thewhites I really liked, very kind
of minerally, but I like that.
So, yeah, I enjoyed it, veryreasonable, friendly folks.
We had an issue with the rental car,and we had somebody in... just an old
(14:07):
man in the streets of Burgundy flag usand we thought he was going to yell at
us for parking in the wrong spot, buthe was just trying to point out that we
needed to be careful with our radiator.
And he was very, just almost kind of likea old grandfather looking out for us.
It was a very, very lovely feeling.
Yeah.
So was there somethingwrong with your radiator?
It just, I think it was the condensationfrom the air conditioning, so...
(14:30):
Ah!
Just be careful, and we were tryingto do Google Translate and he was
trying to speak in broken English.
And it was a cultural experience,but we felt cared for.
You know, we thought it was areally lovely cultural exchange.
Yes, yes.
But in the end the car was fine.
That's good.
Yeah.
And we put it to its pacesafterwards, so it was, it was fun.
(14:51):
Yes.
All right.
So, the next morning, after visiting theAbbey, you set off to go south, I suppose.
We did.
We got up, we went through thefarmer's market, we went to the
Abbey, and then we headed south.
This was a little bit of a divergencefrom my initial plans, because I
(15:12):
wanted to stay in Provence, but Jamieand my mother, they had never seen
the Mediterranean before, you know?
And they had that kind of sentimental,you know, we want to stay by the sea.
Since Provence was also a lot of ourdestination still, the compromise
was trying to find a place thatwas, you know, close to Marseille,
(15:32):
while not being in Marseille,because I was a little worried about
overwhelming my mom with a bigger city.
And so we stayed in a town called, well,it's Martigues is the town, but the
little community is called the Carro.
And it's on somethingcalled the Côte Bleue.
Yeah.
La Côte Bleue.
Yeah.
The Blue Coast, right nextto, what would you say?
(15:53):
It's on the, the westernside of Marseille.
And I really just found an Airbnbthere that I liked, that I felt
met our needs for four or fivedays, and the host was lovely.
And it was right next to abeautiful little cove, a beach
for where the towns folk werethere swimming and having a blast.
(16:15):
It was a great home base.
Right, so June, the water wasprobably still a little bit cool.
Jamie and I, we were going toswim regardless, but that first
day it was a rude awakening.
I knew it was going tohappen, but it was still cold.
Yes.
Was it a rocky beach or sandy beach?
It was actually a sandy beach.
Ah!
A little pebbly, it was just,you know, the series of coves.
(16:36):
I wouldn't call it a calanques by anystretch of the imagination, but it was
like a micro calanques or something.
It was very small, sandy,kind of covey, gentle sloped.
It was nice.
My daughter is actuallydown in this area today.
Just earlier today, she sent mea photo of a little beach where
she is, and it's little pebbles.
(16:57):
So in that area you have both,pebbles and sandy, it just
depends on exactly where you are.
Huh?
So you just need to look itup if that matters to you.
Yes.
Yeah, I did.
For my day job, I'm a librarian andI'm a researcher and I do extensive
research on these types of things.
So I wasn't just, you know, this looksnice, it was like doing the Google Street
(17:20):
view and making little custom maps anddoing a lot of different things to.
You can plan a lot and you justdon't know until you get there.
But I was, you know, since I hadsome folks, I wanted to make sure
they had a good time, especially mymom, I put a lot of effort into to
trying to find the right locations.
Yeah, and you know, you can find out alot about, looking at Google Street view.
(17:42):
Oh, absolutely.
It's totally worth doing, even if,and I'm sure a lot of people are
nodding their heads, they are alsohyper planners or they wouldn't
be listening to this podcast.
Absolutely.
Well, I do the street view, I learneda trick where, you know, I had somebody
say I read on a forum that, you thinkabout the destinations you most want to
visit, you know, essentially do like acustom map around those areas to make
(18:07):
sure, to help you kind of map your trip.
I read reviews of destinations nearby,and I make sure to sort by French because
I want to see, even then I translate thereviews, but I want to see the perspective
of the French tourists, the localtourists, because I feel like they just
have a better sense of, you know, whatis good service or what to expect versus
(18:29):
other folks who might not be as realistic.
Right.
And people, French people aredemanding in a French way.
They don't have the sameexpectations as Americans.
That's an importantthing to do if you can.
All right, but you also went intoVaison-la-Romaine, Carpentras, Gigondas.
Yes.
(18:50):
We gave my mom a rest day, just becauseI knew I wanted to set her up in a place
where I knew she would feel comfortablejust watching TV and sleeping in.
And so, Jamie and I,I've always wanted to go.
I've never been to Provence.
I've never been to thesouthern part of France.
And so, kind of the romance of it inmy head and I wanted to see some of the
(19:10):
attractions that most interested me.
And so I've always wanted togo to a provincial, market,
flea market or antique market.
I'm more of a low end shopperthan I am a high end shopper.
So, I wanted to, Ilooked up Sunday markets.
I know there's the very famous Sundaymarket in the multi hyphenated town
(19:30):
that I'm not... L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you for sayingit so I didn't have to.
And so, it's like I thought, youknow, and I had read the review
saying it's lovely, but it's alsoon for the Sunday market days, it
could be really overrun with turists.
It is.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, I'm one of thoseobnoxious tourists where I'm
like, oh, other tourists, I don'twant to be around other tourists.
(19:50):
But then again, I am still a touristand I think it's important to be where
there is some tourism infrastructure.
Yeah.
I read about Carpentras and I read thatthey have a nice little bit more low key
Sunday market, which it definitely was.
It wasn't, you know, I thoughtit was going to be bigger.
It pretty much was the size of, I'd saylike two thirds of the town parking lot.
(20:15):
And the vendors were alllocal kind of antique vendors.
There were some really interestingvendors, but it wasn't super overwhelming.
And we found a parking spot reallyquickly, which was surprising.
Yeah.
We just kind of had astroll around the markets.
Got a few little vintage postcards.
We just wanted to have a stroll andlook at the wares, and so we did.
(20:38):
Mm-hmm.
Didn't have to take our entire day likeI thought maybe the other market would.
Because Jamie is very interested inwine, my friend, and her husband in
particular loves like the big, boldred wines from California, which,
you know, in that region of Franceit's not necessarily known for.
Right.
We, I looked up a place calledwhich isn't too far from there,
(20:59):
it's kind of up the mountain, andwe made it up, we walked into the
local wine tasting room, wine store.
I think what I had read is thatGigondas is very similar to
Châteauneuf-du-Pape, in terms of likethe, not, maybe, not necessarily the
quality, but like the style of wine.
(21:20):
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, Châteauneuf-du-Pape seemed,seemed a little expensive for my tastes.
Yeah.
And Gigondas seemed likea very good alternative.
And we drove up to the town.
We had, you know, went to a cafe andhad lunch, just Jamie and I. We went
wine tasting, they were fantastic.
They were just bold and smoothand the person giving us pours,
(21:43):
explained about the terroir.
And, he bonded with Jamie, becauseJamie has a French last name because she
married into a French Canadian family.
And so I think, the person's husband thatwas his wife's last name, and so we're
like, oh, well, we're cousins, I guess.
Yeah, and so we ordered somewines to be shipped to us.
Oh!
They don't ship them untilthe weather gets cooler.
(22:06):
So, around Thanksgiving time, we'regoing to be breaking open some
new Gigondas bottles of wine.
Was that expensive to get it shipped?
It was pretty expensive, youknow, Jamie's more of the wine
aficionado, so we, it wasn't expensivewhen you split the cost of it.
The bottles themselves were anywherefrom $10 to $25 to maybe $30 at most,
(22:28):
but when you're shipping them, you'readding in the shipping cost, it was
around like $45 a bottle, which, youknow is still pricey, but we're splitting
it and it's for a special occasion.
Right.
So there are people whobring an extra suitcase.
There are actually wine suit... Okay?
There are wine suitcases youcan buy that are made for that.
(22:50):
I saw one.
I was surprised.
I was like... our friends came tovisit and they brought an extra
suitcase that was made for wine.
I was like, oh, I've neverseen anything like this.
Interesting.
Jamie brought one.
Jamie brought one specifically forwine as well, because she loves wine.
And I ended up taking some of the roomfor... I'm more of a honey and an oil
(23:10):
fan, so I took some of the room up forhoney and olive oil, but it came in handy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fantastic.
So you had, I mean, just to touch up onwhat you said, the Châteauneuf-du-Pape,
I haven't had extensive tastings,but the one place we went, the last
place we went, I didn't think itwas all that, it wasn't worth, I
(23:30):
didn't think it was worth the price.
I mean, whenever we go wine tastinganywhere we stop somewhere, we
just always buy six bottles.
Okay.
We did this just recently in Sancerre, wefound a shop that was open, we bought six
bottles, put it in the car, drove off.
I never go anywhere and buy fewer thansix bottles in Châteauneuf-du-Pape I just
(23:51):
bought the one, because I was like... Imean, I don't like it that much, you know?
So, yeah.
You know, I, and I was afraid that wasgoing to happen in Châteauneuf-du-Pape,
I mean, my mom was very interested in it.
It's very fun to say from anEnglish speaker perspective.
So that's, I think part oflike, oh, Châteauneuf-du-Pape,
...Yeah.
Everybody loves to
say
it.
You know, what I had done before is Ihad gone to some wine stores here in
(24:14):
California, thought about the regionswe were going to visit, tried to get,
buy some bottles in advance to seewhat we liked and we didn't like.
And the one bottle I could not bringmyself to buy was a Châteauneuf-du-Pape,
just because with import fees, even inCalifornia, it was punishingly expensive.
And it's like, I don't, if Ilove it, I don't want to be
stuck of buying it all the time.
(24:35):
That is a good point.
Yes.
So I, and I think Gigondas, I did someadditional research and so, if you like
it in theory, but you don't like theprice, I would love to recommend Gigondas.
And it's just a really picturesque spot.
It's a small town, it'sperched up on the hill.
You could see all the valley below,some great places to eat there.
(24:59):
I think it's a good, happy medium whereyou get some of that quality, some,
a little bit bolder of a red than youwould find in Burgundy or Bordeaux.
And the price is right.
Excellent.
Then you went to Grass and Saint Maxim.
Yes.
Well, at the end of that day,we went to Vaison-la-Romaine.
(25:20):
Oh yeah, Vaison-la-Romaine, yes.
Like I said, I'm an archeology fan andso I wanted to see the ruins there.
The most interesting part of thatis, the weather was really unsettled,
that's the one thing of French folkstalked to us about the entire time.
It's like, oh, you came on a terribletime, the weather is so unsettled.
You know, it was nice coming fromthe heat of California to have
some rain in and some overcastdays, so it didn't bother us.
(25:42):
But we understood what they meantthat day, because we got caught in
a very ferocious hailstorm right inthe middle of the archeological park.
It was shocking to see just storm cloudsroll over, like mount vent to and just
all of a sudden unleash a hailstorm on us.
And so we were running around withour shoes off, trying to find shelter.
(26:05):
Some of the workers there thoughtwe were absolutely hilarious for
trying to, you know, put bagsover our head and run around.
And they were very entertained byour antics, which I appreciated.
At one time we were like stoopedunder a tree, trying to take a
video, and then some car rolls by andcompletely like splashes me and...
Ooh.
Jamie's laughing hystericallyin the background.
(26:26):
It was an experience, it was an adventure.
Alright.
And so the next day we, well, Idon't know the next day, but we
went up and we went to to Grasse.
It was a just a wonderfulexperience making perfume.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's what youlisted as your top activity.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It was one where we were all inagreement that we liked the best.
(26:47):
Both myself, my mom, and Jamielove perfumes and cosmetics.
I saw this workshop, there's anumber of them in that town, this
one just worked out timing wise.
It was a drive from wherewe were on the other side of
Marseille, but it was worth it.
Yeah, because you weredoing this as day trips.
Yeah.
That, in retrospect, I probablywould've stationed myself a
(27:09):
little bit closer to that.
Easier to do it from Nice.
Absolutely.
As the crow flies, it doesn'tlook so bad distance wise.
Uhhuh, but those roads...
Hills and roads and it was...
And those freeways are so busy.
Oh, so busy.
California busy.
California busy.
We were prepared for the freeways.
We weren't necessarily prepared forthe tiny winding roads up the hill,
(27:33):
speed bumps in the middle of nowhere.
We actually started a game of liketrying to guess how many, we were betting
on how many roundabouts we would hit.
It's like, well, on thisstretch we're going to hit 25.
Yeah, we had a little roadgames we invented, so...
Did you get to like them in the end?
Yes, I mean, I love roundabouts.
I think they are a revelation for traffic.
Alright, that's good.
(27:54):
So the speed bumps in the middle ofnowhere, on the other hand, that's pretty
jarring, literally and figuratively.
So, we went to Grasse, wewas at Molinard Fragrances.
It was a bit of a challengefor my mom just because it
was up on the side of a hill.
Even their handicap parking, whichwe used her handicap placard, which
(28:14):
worked really well throughout France.
Mm-hmm.
It was still a bit of adifficult walk up to the hill.
My mom still said it wasworth it, more than worth it.
And yeah, we sat, they explainedkind of the fragrance pyramid and
base notes and top notes, and hadus go through a perfumers organ.
It was really interesting becausethey would have you smell the caps
(28:36):
of the fragrances that you likethe most, and then you would kind
of pull those out, dip a littlepiece of paper into the fragrance.
And so essentially they had a"nez", or I don't know if she
was in training, she was amazing.
And so she basically took all thescents that we had labeled and
dipped, rearranged them, kind offanned them in front of our face.
(28:57):
To say like, do you likethe way that smells?
Do you like the way that smells wouldkind of reconfigure it based on what we
liked and then just would kind of smellit herself and say like, okay, well if
you want to make this into a perfume, youneed to add this, this, this, and this.
We did that.
It was a little kind of like alittle chemistry experiment, where
we had the droppers in there.
(29:17):
She actually, my mom loved this,because she smelled what my mom
had kind of picked out and waslike, this is absolutely perfect.
You don't need to add anything to this.
Which she was the only person in theentire class where that happened to, so...
That's good.
Your mom has a nose.
Exactly right.
We made all of our perfumes and I'msure if any of you have, you know, if
(29:38):
you've attended one of those, they kindof label your creation and then you
could always order it from that perfumehouse, and as long, they said, as long as
you're alive, you can order it from us.
Wow.
That's great.
Which was great.
And we all had something thatsmelled a little bit different.
My mom's was very fresh.
Mine ended up smelling likepeach Coca-Cola in some strange
(29:58):
way, but it still works.
And Jamie's was very kindof bold and instinctual.
We spent some time on the road tryingto invent names for our perfumes because
we spent a lot of time in the car.
So that just, we all lovedit, we all created something.
My mom got that extra boostfrom participating in that.
And then we went to the coastto have lunch, St. Maxim, which
(30:23):
it was also another sandy beach.
Mm-hmm.
And highly recommended.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
We drove home and it was a day thatexhausted us, but it was worth it.
Wonderful.
All right.
We got to move on because wedon't have a lot of time left.
Ardèche.
Okay.
This is one place that we don'ttalk about very much on the podcast.
You did an overnight at Charmes-sur-Rhône.
(30:45):
That was one of the ones where we weretrying to have a stop in between the
Mediterranean and Loir, but we didn'twant to just go back to Burgundy.
I picked the hotel based on thefact that it had a Michelin starred
restaurant and got very good reviews.
We wanted to try it.
We hadn't really tried aMichelin star restaurant before.
I thought, you know,when in France, why not?
(31:05):
Yeah.
And I picked one that looked a littlebit more down to earth, but still
an amazing mind blowing experience.
But, while we were traveling upthere, we just discovered what an
absolutely stunning area this is, right?
Yeah.
Kind of along the Rhône River Valley,seeing the big river, you know, I'm not
a cruise person, but I did see some ofthose riverboat cruises, and I thought,
(31:29):
okay, there might be something to that.
Yes, there is something to that.
Yes, yes.
And so it was just kind of a stay alongthe river in, in the Charmes-sur-Rhône.
And the hotel that we stayed at,which I probably can't pronounce very
well, Le Carré d'Alethius, so it'sbased off there was a Roman senator,
(31:51):
apparently his tomb is in the city hall.
You can go see it.
And it's based on that romansenator, is the name of the hotel
slash Michelin starred restaurant.
It's a very small hotel, humble,it's lovely, well thought out.
But the restaurant was so good.
It was an amazing experience.
So that's called Le Carré
d'Aléthius,
(32:13):
Thank you.
And I will have all of that in theshow notes for people who want to...
Get the cheese board.
The cheese board's incredible.
I've never seen anything in it.
I don't want to sound too, yeah, I'm hokeylike, oh, I've never seen a cheeses board
in my life, but it is just next level.
Very good.
Fantastic.
And that was just for one overnight.
(32:33):
One overnight.
And then you moved on to the Loire.
We did.
We drove through anarea near Saint-Étienne.
And I, even before I knew, I said, thislooks like Pennsylvania, it's like we're
going through the Allegheny's and Coalcountry and I guess it is coal country.
Sure enough, sure enough, it is.
We had a short stop ina town called Roanne.
(32:55):
Yep.
We stopped there just for a pit stop.
I wanted to try French tacos.
And I regretted it.
I'm sorry.
Apologies to the French gourmands...
It is awful.
It's, wow, there's so many layers of goo.
Yes.
I don't even know howyou guys deal with it.
Yes, yes, yes.
I had my first French taco thisweek, by the way, and never again.
(33:18):
My first, yes.
I have seen my husband eat them and Ialways thought, I'm not having that.
This time I thought, I was very hungryand I thought, okay, this is probably
a million calories and I'm hungry.
So I had it.
And yes, I ate it, but never again.
It doesn't even taste that great.
And it's layers of goo, like you said.
(33:38):
Layers of goo.
Never have I seen this muchgoo crammed into one vessel.
Yes.
Beware.
Nothing like tacos, nothinglike a gyro or anything.
Okay.
No.
That's a separate podcast of mecomplaining about French tacos.
So yeah, we did that.
We also stopped, it's supposed tobe an up and coming wine region,
and we stopped at a, a wine caveand we got a couple of bottles.
(33:59):
And, I know you're okay with ustalking about terrible things on
this podcast, but I don't know ifnecessarily if the wine was terrible,
but there was something wrong with it.
We ended up not even bringing it backbecause it's like, I think it was corked.
Ah.
And because it just, the corkcrumbled, it tasted like vinegar.
Oh.
Maybe this needs a few days to breathe.
(34:20):
No, no, no, no.
It was bad.
So, I'm hoping that was just a flukebecause the area of these beautiful
rolling hills and, and it was nice.
So this is wine you bought in Roanne.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think it ... camp,
Was it a wine shop?
It's a wine shop, and he was very,you know, we talked to him, it's
like most typical of this region,and he knew exactly what he wanted.
(34:42):
I don't know if he was like, let'sget these busted bottles of wine and
pawn them off on these tourists...
Could be.
He didn't seem like it, but...
You never know.
It was, I don't know.
It was supposed to be likeBeaujolais based, so it's like I
know Beaujolais enough to know whatit should taste like, and it should
not taste like red wine vinegar.
So if the Roanne Tourism Board wantsto sponsor me to come back and try
(35:02):
more, I'm definitely up for it.
But otherwise, no.
Otherwise, yeah, butit's a beautiful area.
Yeah.
So we went kind of on the other side,and kind of worked our way back up to
the Loire Valley and that area, I mean,it's very pastoral and very hilly.
It reminds me of the Sierra Nevadafoothills here in California.
It's just stunning.
It's so beautiful.
(35:23):
France in general is beautiful, but thatarea was kind of took me by surprise.
And so we went to a B&Boutside of Chamonix and that
was one of our highlights.
It was such a fantastic place.
So B&B.
So what was the name of the B&B?
Let's see.
Did you write it down?
And I'm going to butcher it.
(35:45):
Domaine de la Rabouillere B&B.
Yes, and I think I looked upRabouillere which doesn't have
a lot of English translation.
No, it doesn't mean anything.
It's a rabbit sworn.
It's apparently where femalerabbits go to give birth.
That's a new one on me.
The researcher come through.
It's like, I will find thedefinition of this word.
Well, good for you.
I would, I mean, I look at this,Rabouillere, okay, whatever,
(36:06):
but it's just a name to me.
It's all good.
Good, good.
Okay.
And there were some giantrabbits around there, so...
Ah, well.
So, we did that.
And we used that as a homebase for the next five days.
We had some must sees that mymother absolutely had to see.
One of her obsessions fromreading all those books about
France was Eleanor of Aquitaine.
(36:27):
Yes, of course.
I had listened to podcasts and done myresearch enough to know that we definitely
had to go to the Fontevrault Abbey.
Yes.
It was a little disappointingfor her, just because it just,
you know, it was a prison right?
And they stripped everything... and,but it still was a lovely experience.
We ate at the restaurant there,we ended up going, thinking it
(36:50):
was just, we booked a restaurant,apparently was a tasting experience.
Uhhuh.
And it was a little bit, it wasbeautiful, and it was wonderful,
and it was just a little esoteric.
It was like we're basing this mealoff the monk who would steal down from
the hills to steal things from thegarden, and he had very expensive taste.
(37:12):
This hermit, who would, you know,come down and steal our stuff.
And so we were inspired by hisexpensive tastes in his thievery.
And so we created thistasting menu to honor him.
And than they had like a map ofall the places he would steal from.
And it was it, you know, and he clearly,the meal really proved that he did
(37:33):
have some really exceptional tastes.
The thieving hermit of the Abbey.
But it was great.
It was beautiful.
It was, I think I'm addicted to high-enddining experiences now thanks to this.
But the Abbey was a beautiful,Chenonceau she had to see because
she had read all about that as well.
Sure.
We did the boat tour of kind of goingup and under, then kind of walked around
(37:57):
and I had a much more down to earthdining experience at that cafeteria.
Which that was great.
Yeah, I want to highlight thefact that you really, really
liked this B&B, near Cheverny.
Which makes it very good, I mean,it's a good place to, a lot of people
ask me where to base yourself out ofwhen you're visiting the Loire Valley.
(38:19):
It's a hard question to answerbecause it really depends, I
mean, it's a river, it's long.
Yes.
So, it's great that yourecommend this place.
You say the breakfast was good, very kindowners, charming dog, comfortable beds.
Define comfortable bed.
I think it, it struck the rightbalance between a very firm mattress
(38:41):
and very comfortable bedding.
We had been to some places before wherethe mattresses were exceptionally firm.
Yeah.
Is good for your back, but it's notexactly something that you could
snuggle into after a long day.
Yes.
Yes.
So it was, yeah, the linens werehigh quality, everything was...
Not too hard.
Not too hard not to soft, thekind of the Goldilocks zone.
(39:03):
Excellent.
And it was like a separate, almost likegîte, or a small cottage on the property.
And usually when you rent the small gîteson the B&B properties, you don't get
breakfast, or you have to pay extra a bit.
But this was included and, youknow, we didn't even have to leave.
He would bring it in and set it up for us.
And we'd just call him to come take it.
(39:24):
His English, he was veryinsecure about his English.
Although, like most French people,when they're insecure about their
English, it's pretty much flawless.
But he, they grew honey on theproperty, not grew honey, they
produced honey on the property.
He included it in the breakfast.
It was mind blowingly good, andhe was just so charming and sweet.
He kind of gave off like dadenergy because he was always
(39:47):
like... he wanted to check in.
We took a day trip to Paris from thereand he, my mom stayed and so he checked in
with my mom, like, are the girls back yet?
Have they made it?
Is everything okay?
It was very attentive, caring servicein a beautiful family run property.
I would go just to staythere and go nowhere.
Mm. So day trip to Paris,you drove into Paris?
(40:09):
We actually, no, we drove intoOrleans to the train station
there and took a train there.
I didn't want to deal withdriving anywhere near Paris.
Okay.
Okay.
And so yeah, it was great because myfriend had never been to Paris before and
she just wanted to tick that off her box.
Although, you know, she went tothe Louvre and was completely
overwhelmed by the crowds.
I wanted no part of that, you know, justhad to check it off her list and so...
(40:32):
Yeah.
And then the last place youstayed was in Chantilly.
Yes.
It's a beautiful town, the chateau itself.
We were a little chateauout by this point.
We had been to quite a few, and sowe did kind of, we walked around the
grounds, didn't really go in therebut it, yeah, wow, it's beautiful.
(40:53):
Stunning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I don't know why morepeople don't visit it.
it's very nice.
It's, you know, it stood up toanything in the Loire Valley.
I mean, it was beautiful.
And, you stayed there becauseyou wanted to be close to your
CDG departure the next morning.
I think they had started, we lookedat the, some of the airports hotels
(41:14):
and the prices, and they'd all of asudden gone berserk, and it's like,
I'm wondering, well, is this like thelead up to the Olympics where they're
just going to start, you know, so...
Right?
You know, just 10 miles up theroad in Chantilly, everything
was really reasonable and we'renext to a beautiful chateau.
Okay.
That sounds good.
Check, check.
(41:35):
Very good.
Alright, so we have beentalking a long time.
We need to stop.
But your notes were excellent aswell, for researchers, so I will post
those linked through the main episodepage for this, for this episode.
And overall, do you have anyadvice for people who want to do
(41:56):
a trip like this with their motheror with an elderly relative?
Yes, I do have some advice and I'lltry to make it brief as I can manage.
One thing that I didn't reallyconvey very well throughout this is
that my mom has reduced mobility.
Not, you know, complete no mobility,but had a stroke, is a very slow
(42:16):
walker unsteady on her feet.
Mm-hmm.
I, you know, wanted to stay close tocity centers and atmospheric locations.
And one thing that I didn't do is domy due diligence as much as I should
in terms of verifying staircases andthings that, you know, don't make
a difference to me, but somebodywith limited mobility, they do.
(42:37):
And you know, all of our hostswere wonderful, welcoming, if I
would've just called or sent theman email in advance, I'm sure they
would've given me more of a heads up.
So my recommendation is maybe tothink more about staying in the hotels
as much as it pains me to say, youknow, staying in a chain hotel or
something where maybe there's thatlegal governmental requirement to, if
(43:00):
you're going to say this is accessible,it's going to be an accessible room.
Right, so accessible room in French,you ask for a PMR room, which
means 'Personne à Mobilité Réduite.
Sure.
So if the room is labeled PMR, ithas to be accessible for a wheelchair
user, which means that there's goingto be a, you know, either an easy
(43:25):
ramp or an elevator, or no stairs.
Exactly.
I think, when you look at the descriptionand it says only one staircase,
because my mom said, I can go up astaircase as long as it has a rail.
Well, great.
Most of those places have astaircase, but there are steps
to even get to the staircase.
Yes.
Steps up and down.
We kind of joke like 'theseare the hidden stairs'.
(43:47):
There's always hidden stairs orhidden hills or hidden obstructions,
and so, I would recommend going forthe surety of more of a chain or at
least just taking that extra stepto reach out to folks about it.
Yes.
That was the one thing Icould have done differently.
And that's the advice to give to somebody.
It's doable, especially with extensiveresearch, but just be on the safe
(44:09):
side with your accommodations.
Right, and also realize that very often inFrance, the bathrooms are in the basement.
Yes.
So you go use the bathroom in arestaurant, and at least half of
the time it's in the basement.
And with restaurants too, you know,I love family, I like to keep the
money that I'm spending in thecommunities and family run restaurants.
(44:32):
And my mom made it, but there was somewhere it was just like, oh, well we
have your table, it's at the top ofthe spiral staircase, in the attic.
Mm.
It's, well, yeah, okay, either wecan't do it or she's really going
to have to dig deep for this.
And so we had a few of those experiences.
It didn't take away fromthe overall experience...
(44:54):
But these are difficulties that pile up.
Absolutely.
A 40-year-old who doesn'thave these challenges, I don't
necessarily think of that.
But if you're planning for somebodywith limited mobility, I would
definitely do not hesitate toreach out and ask about, you know,
logistics or go with a safer bet.
Vanessa, thank you somuch for talking to me.
(45:17):
I'm sure it's going to be very helpfulto people who are planning trips with
their family members, especially elderlyfamily members, because you got to make
the most of the time you have on earth.
And having a trip to France oncein a while makes life better.
Absolutely.
She wants to go again already,and it's like, well, let's
see what my brother's doing.
He can take you next.
(45:38):
Wonderful.
All right, Merci.
Thank you.
Au revoir!
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so, you can
see them at patreon.com/JoinUs.
(46:06):
And a special shout out this week tomy new Join us in France champions
Josh Stewart, Mike Carter, JodyFlood, Christine Cunningham and Neva.
And thank you Gregg Rudder for upgradingyour membership to yearly support.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I would
(46:29):
love to have you pledge more so youcan have access to more of the rewards.
And of course when you join at the oneof the higher tiers, you also have access
to lots and lots of previous rewards.
I have worked on this for years now.
Go to patreon.com/joinus.
(46:49):
And to support Elyse goto patreon.com/ElysArt.
This week I published details of a greatwalk in Paris between the Moulin Rouge and
Passage Jouffroy, with some descriptions,and a short video, and things like that.
It's always good to have aplan for a fun walk in Paris.
(47:11):
And this week I also published mynew Paris Tour on the VoiceMap app,
which have called Paris's GothicJewels: Notre Dame Cathedral, Saint
Chappelle, and the Conciergerie.
Now, this is a tour that takes you bothinside and out of these three monuments.
It's very, very well crafted, andthis is probably the last Paris
(47:37):
VoiceMap tour I'm going to writebecause this is a huge undertaking.
It took me 10 full days of doingnothing else from 9:00 AM until 7:00 PM.
Every detail is examined about the pathI take you on, the stories I share,
the audio because unlike the podcast,the tours have sound effects and
(47:58):
musical bits to enhance the experience.
There are photos to help youfind your way, and also help you
see things that are hard to see.
In the Saint Chappelle, trust me, thereare a lot of things that are hard to see.
I mean, these VoiceMap tours are a fullimmersive experience, and these are great
because you can take them at your own pacewithout needing to make a reservation.
(48:22):
They don't cost very much.
They are just awesome, and Ilove them, but it's so much work.
I think I might be done.
Many of you have never tried one, andyou might be hesitant, I understand.
You might think, oh, let's try to joina group, have a live guide, and while
there are some great live guides,most of them are not that great.
(48:43):
First of all, in this gig economy, theguides you find on the big platforms that
you've heard of are mostly very young.
They're not French originally.
There is a huge demand for guideswho can speak English for a few
months, and then it all dries up.
The platforms take huge commissions,these guys don't get paid that much.
(49:04):
Lots of these young people do the jobfor one season, if they last that long,
and then they find something more stable,you know, more rewarding, less difficult.
Because sometimes dealing with touristsis not the easiest thing in the world.
You'll find some seasoned guidesin Paris, but they mostly have
full-time employment in museums.
(49:26):
So just know that booking a live tourin Paris is not always a guarantee.
In my opinion, there aremore downsides than upsides.
And the price of these livetours is another problem.
You know, they cost minimum50 bucks per person.
And you'll pay the same amount fora great guide as you will for a
mediocre one, and you really don'tknow what you're going to get.
(49:48):
So, if you enjoy the work that Ido, if you like my style, if you
think I know France and Paris prettywell, then try one of my tours.
It's literally taking me in your pocket.
Make me happy and get my new baby.
Paris' Gothic Jewels, NotreDame Cathedral, Sainte
Chappelle, and The Conciergerie.
And podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website.
(50:12):
It is wonderful because the cost isreally, really great, but only do
that if you're not in a big hurry.
It might take a few hours, perhapsa few days for you to get the codes.
And please, please, please, if youtake my latest tour Paris's Gothic
Jewels, leave a review because it'simpossible to sell digital products
(50:35):
that don't have dozens of reviews.
That's how the world works these days.
So yeah, I would love it if you wouldtry it, and you can actually do it from
home because this is one where thereare several photos at every stop, and
so you could just listen to it at home.
People ask me for restaurantrecommendations all the time, and
(50:55):
I sometimes hesitate to give anyunless I've been there and I can
tell you that it's legit, you know?
So, while in Paris, Itried some new restaurants.
I also went to some old ones again,but there were four new restaurants
that I want to tell you about.
Le Petit Chatelet on 39 Rue de laBûcherie is right by Shakespeare
(51:17):
and company, and if you get thetable upstairs, by the window, you
get a great view of Notre Dame.
I was there with mysister-in-law, Stephanie.
And she really, really loved it.
I let her have the view.
The only place you can have a view likethat is if you go to La Tour d'Argent
and, uh, you know, that's expensive.
(51:38):
Another place we went to withStephanie was Le Bistrot des Victoires.
That's on 6 Rue de la Vrillière.
In the first arrondissement,it's near the Palais Royal.
This is one that was recommendedby a friend of my daughter's.
She works at the Ministère de la Cultureat the Palais Royal, her name is Amber and
(52:01):
because I know she works there and I've,you know, she comes home once in a while,
we live in the same village, literallya stones throw away from my place.
I asked her for inexpensive places forlunch right around where she works.
Because this is an area thathas a lot of restaurants, but
some of them are pretty pricey.
She gave me a list and her listincluded a lot of Asian places.
(52:24):
She's very interested in Japanand she speaks Japanese very well.
So one of them though, she knows me, sheknows I like to eat, so she recommended
one place, this one Le Bistrot desVictoires, it's not a boullion per
se, but it's that sort of restaurant.
It's old style.
It's very full, people enjoy just the samedishes over and over again, and it was
(52:49):
really inexpensive for the food we got.
It was just, everything theyserved us was perfectly executed.
It was not fancy looking,but it was just great.
And the wait staff was lovely.
I really had a good laugh with awaitress who was taking care of us.
She had a great sense of humor.
And of course, because I was therewith my sister-in-law, I didn't
(53:09):
say any words in English, right?
I was just speaking French with her.
And so it was a very different feel.
It's interesting, when I'm withother people, because I am French
all the time, but if I'm with otherpeople who I speak English with,
they just assume I'm an American.
And the treatment is different.
If they don't hear me speak anyEnglish, they just, oh, French person.
(53:32):
And the banter and theconversations are different.
Let's put it this way.
At this Bistrot des Victoires you needto get there by noon, or it'll be full.
They might do a second service starting at1:00 or 1:15 or 1:30 but I'm not certain.
It's not huge, but it'sdefinitely worth a try.
Another place, and this is theone that was very strange, was
(53:56):
Bouillon Chartier Grands Boulevards.
Alright, so this one is right, it'son 7 Rue du Faubourg Montmartre.
It's right by the Passage Jouffroy.
And I walk in, and I was by myself, itwas right around 12:30 or something.
And the guy takes me to a tableand says: 'Right here', and there
(54:16):
was already a woman sitting there,and these are not big tables, okay?
These are really, really small tables,like my knees, my knees could touch hers
once I sat and I was like, you want me tosit with madame, Je m'assoie avec Madame?
Il me dit oui.
Yeah.
He says, yeah, that'swhere you going to sit.
I was so surprised that hadnever happened to me before.
(54:37):
Now at a bar, like if you're at abar and you're eating at the bar,
you can be side by side with otherpeople, but face to face with someone
you don't know was very strange.
I just thought, okay, what do I do?
And so I got the menu, and I was lookingat the menu thinking, and then I look
at her, of course, I had said Bonjourbefore I sat down, okay, with this lady.
(55:00):
Bonjour Madame and she responded,and she was a little older than me,
but you know, about the same age.
I sit down and I don't say much.
I'm looking at my menuthinking, oh, what the hell?
And she was eating her food, she wasn'tpaying any attention to me really.
So I thought, okay, I'm goingto ask her you know, what's
good here, like an ice breaker.
(55:22):
And so she told me that she hadbeen there 50 years ago, and she
pointed at a table, with her husband.
And I was like, oh, wow.
So immediately I'm thinking, okay,what happened to the husband?
But, I mean, I don't know this woman.
I don't want to ask her whathappened to your husband?
(55:42):
So I just said, oh, oh, how cool.
Yes, that's great.
So what's good to eat?
And she told me what she tried, andI, she didn't really know what was
good to eat, but I picked somethingthat was actually very plain.
It was good, but you know, itwasn't anything to write home about.
The food was fine.
(56:03):
Very fast service and friendly, I suppose.
And so with this lady, wechatted for about 20 minutes.
She had her dessert whileI was having my main dish.
And then she left by the time Iwas having my dessert, but it was
the really strange thing and sheasked me what I was doing in Paris.
So I told her about the podcast andI realized just now she might be
(56:25):
listening because I gave her my card.
And if you are my dear lady,don't be mad at me, I didn't know
what to say about your husband.
That was the part thatkind of threw me off.
But I am glad we got to sit and enjoy ameal together, because you were lovely.
So you never know who you'regoing to meet in Paris, right?
Especially if you eat by yourself.
(56:46):
It's kind of interesting.
I also went back to the LeSaint-Regis restaurant, by
the Cathedral, by Notre Dame.
And I met a lady who had been ona tour with me years ago that said
she was in Paris, and we said Hi,and it was lovely seeing her and
her friend that she was visiting.
And I also went back to L'Aubergedes Deux Ponts, also near Notre Dame
(57:09):
where my favorite soup Nazi works.
I don't know if I told you about this one.
This guy is, he's, you never knowif he's going to serve you or not.
So while I was there this time, I gotthere like at 12:15 and I was the only
person in the restaurant at that point.
(57:30):
Two people came and asked for a table.
I had, okay, I shouldsay I had called him.
I didn't, you don't show up at thisplace, you call to make sure it's okay.
I called and I said, I'm coming,it's just me, is that okay?
Yes, it's fine.
Come.
Okay.
And then, while I was sitting thereconsidering what I was going to have,
(57:50):
two people came and asked for a tableand he turned them both away, but he
didn't have anybody else to serve untilI was ready to leave, because I was
the only one, I was the only person hewas serving, so it went pretty fast.
He's the cook and the waiter.
It's kind of interesting.
(58:10):
And by the time I was having mydessert, a big table of six arrived
and then a big table of four arrived.
And it's true that they had reservedand he couldn't... but I mean, if he
had hurried these two people there,he could have served them quickly,
and, you know, rush them out's doorto have room for the big table.
I don't know it, it's atiny little restaurant.
(58:31):
It's very quirky, but he's a good cook.
So what can I tell you?
I'm a sucker for a good cook.
My thanks to podcast editors Anne andChristian Cotovan, who produce the
transcripts and make it sound good.
Next week on the podcast an episodewith Elyse about the Marvelous Cézanne.
(58:53):
Now, there's going to be a lot of Cézannestuff happening in France this year,
and you don't want to miss this one.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
(59:16):
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
This is Join Us in France, episode539, cinq cent trente-neuf.
Bonjour, I'm Annie Sargent and Join Usin France is the podcast where we take
a conversational journey through thebeauty, culture and flavors of France.
Today, I bring you a conversationwith Vanessa Christman about her
(00:35):
incredible journey through Francecelebrating her mother's 75th birthday.
From exploring historic abbeys andcharming medieval towns, to indulging in
some wine, wine tastings, and creatingcustom perfumes in Grasse, Vanessa shares
all the details of their road trip.
This episode is packed with traveltips, heartfelt moments, and
(00:58):
practical advice for anyone planninga similar adventure or just wants
the inspiration, especially whentraveling with elderly family members.
This podcast is supported by donorsand listeners who buy my tours and
services, including my ItineraryConsult Service, my GPS self-guided
tours of Paris on the VoiceMap app,or take a day trip with me around the
(01:22):
southwest of France in my electric car.
You can browse all of that and myboutique: joinusinfrance.com/boutique.
And remember, Patreon supporters get thepodcast ad-free and as soon as it's ready.
Click on the link in the show notesto enjoy this Patreon reward today.
For the magazine part of the podcast,after my chat with Vanessa, I'll
(01:45):
discuss some restaurant experiencesI had while in Paris, including
one that was entirely new to me.
It was very strange.
I also want to tell you about my newVoiceMap tour, because it's very cool.
And a bit of a rant aboutthe state of tours in Paris.
(02:13):
Bonjour, Vanessa Christman andwelcome to Join us in France!
Bonjour Annie.
I am really excited to be here.
Thank you so much.
So you had a trip in France, withyour family, and your trip took place
June 5th through June 18th, 2024.
Right?
That is correct.
Yes.
(02:33):
Okay, and when I asked you for agood title, you said 'Celebrating
75 years with a French road trip'.
So that sounds lovely.
Who was turning 75?
You were not, clearly!
My mother.
My mother was turning 75.
She actually turned 75 in Januaryof this past year, and she had never
(02:56):
been out of the country before.
Oh.
She's been a Francophile for most of herlife and had read about it when she was
a child, and still read pretty much anyhistorical book you can find about France.
She will read and so, her kind ofpitch to me was if you help do the
planning and drive me around, I willhelp make a trip to France happen
(03:20):
because I've always wanted to go.
Oh, that's wonderful.
I seized that opportunity.
That's really truly wonderful.
So, it was just you and yourmother and a friend as well.
Yes, I had a friend ask if shecould join the trip, about kind of
midway into the planning process.
She's a long time family friend who's mybest friend and my mom's other daughter.
(03:43):
So it was so wonderful to have her along.
Fantastic.
That's great.
I have one daughter and one of herfriends is also, feels like a, you
know, not quite a daughter, but I havea lot of affection for her, for sure.
Absolutely.
And it worked out well because we learnedthat we travel extremely well together.
And so, future trips,she's invited by default.
(04:05):
Fantastic.
So what, where did you go?
I want to get into that first andalso how did you plan this trip?
What did you do to plan this trip?
Well, where we went, it's reallyhard to kind of describe it quickly.
It's, we kind of planned it around theareas where my mom most wanted to see, and
(04:25):
kind of pit stops in between those areas.
Just because we weren't, wedidn't want to be stuck in a car.
You know, we're Californian, sowe're going to drive everywhere.
I tried to pitch public transportation,but my mom was a bit nervous.
She was most interestedin seeing Provence, the
Mediterranean, and Loire Valley.
Those were her threemust-see destinations.
And so, we flew into Charles deGaulle, rented a car, did a pit
(04:50):
stop in Burgundy, which is an area Iwanted to see, and it worked out well.
Spent some days in the Mediterranean,and in Provence, and then drove
all the way to the Loire Valleyand spent some time there.
We just, we ping ponged around prettymuch, a lot, a huge chunk of France,
actually, around 2000 miles in total.
Wow.
Yeah, that's quite a bit.
So, you rented your car right from CDG.
(05:14):
Yes.
Right, from landing from California.
Well, we did spend an overnight next tothe hotel just to decompress, and then
the next morning we rented our car.
Okay, so you spent one night nearthe airport before you set off.
Yes.
Because that's a, I mean,from California, that's a lot.
Jet lag really hits you, right?
(05:34):
It does.
I have a really nice little app that Ifound that, I don't want to go in too much
of a tangent of it, but it is used, itwas developed for astronauts, actually.
So, you kind of put in your flight timesand it tells you a few days before when
to go to sleep, and when to wake up to tryto like permute you to the new time zone.
Oh.
I've done it in a few trips toFrance and it works pretty well.
(05:56):
I was strict on my travel companions.
And jet lag wasn't too much of an issue,but still wanted to have that rest day.
That's cool.
So first question is,what's the name of the app?
And second question is, how manytrips to France have you had?
The name of the app is Time Shifter.
Highly recommended.
And you don't even have to be toostrict to adhere to their time
recommendations, but it's been helpful.
(06:18):
I've been to France twice before.
One was like a short trip upfrom above Barcelona and the
cost area, the Costa Brava.
We wanted, we went into seeCarcassonne, and a town whose name
I can't remember, I wanted to seethe Cathar Castles in that area.
I'm kind of a history and archeology nerd.
(06:39):
Okay.
I love anything to do with that.
So, we went and traveled up there,and then I had been to the Loire
Valley a few years after that, itwas in November, it was during our
Thanksgiving break, and it was withmy kids and we had a wonderful time.
But, yeah, Loire Valley, it remindedme of where I lived, in November, which
was very pastoral, but also misty.
(07:00):
And you, you really miss something, notseeing all the gardens in bloom, so...
That's true.
Was still a great trip.
We went to the city ofNantes, which I love Nantes.
It's a fantastic city,and the kids loved it too.
How many kids do you have?
I have two kids.
I have one who is now 17, whichis really hard for me to believe,
and I have a 11-year-old.
(07:23):
He was, I think six at the time.
Okay.
And he was a hit.
He was a hit.
We had him go in front of us andsay the bonjour to everybody.
We called him our Bonjour ambassador.
And he just, the French loved him.
He helped us get a fantastic reception.
I remember being in France and awaitress, like, gave him her phone number.
(07:45):
He went down to meet the chef.
I mean, he had the redcarpet rolled out for him.
So, he loves France too.
Fantastic.
All right, so you had one night'ssleep near the airport, near CDG.
Correct.
What was the name of the hotel?
People are going to askthese sorts of questions.
The Ibis styles.
Alright.
Across the way it's, I think hassome sort of a vague Star Wars theme.
(08:08):
We've stayed there before,it's perfectly fine.
Yeah, so you just walked to that.
We took the shuttle.
You took a shuttle, okay.
A very fast shuttle, but it wasgood to get a little adrenaline
rush right after the flight.
So you took the shuttle, you had anight's sleep, then the next morning
you picked up your car and left.
Excellent.
(08:29):
Okay.
And you made your way to Burgundy.
So I don't know, shall we take this inthe order you did it or by your favorites?
Do it in the order, I think that typeof road trip order might be helpful.
So, let's do it that way.
Tell me about the first place you visited.
So we first visited the town ofTournus which was kind of our pit stop.
(08:54):
It's in southern Burgundy, I wouldsay about 30 minutes north of Macôn.
The reason we stopped there wasn'tnecessarily, it was really just
logistical, I had to think about howmany hours I thought my mom could
really sit in the car after a longtrip and if she's too overtired.
But then again, the next daywe were headed down to the
(09:14):
Mediterranean and so I didn't wanta huge chunk of time the next day.
So, you know I reallywanted to stay in Dijon.
But it still would've been too longof a drive down to the Mediterranean.
So, it's like, let's pick someplace in between that seems still
interesting, at least has somesort of tourism infrastructure.
Right, so Tournus is T-O-U-R-N-U-S.
(09:38):
Yes.
Not a town I visited, so youhave to tell me what it's like.
Okay, I loved it.
I felt pretty proud of myselffor finding this place.
It's known amongst just regional tourists,apparently, for a really beautiful
abbey that I believe, and I can check mynotes, first built in the 10th century,
(10:01):
it was built around some pilgrims fromthe, or some monks from the north of
France who came down brought the relicsof Saint-Philibert, and I don't know
my saints very well, so I don't...
Me neither.
That Saint was particularly known for,but they were fleeing viking invasions.
And so they came downto Tournus, I believe.
The King of France at the time, gavethem some land, next to the Saône river.
(10:25):
And they built an Abbey to housethese relics and it became kind of
one of the pilgrimage destinations.
I think the town itself to renew wasa Roman town right along the river.
It was shipping outpost.
It had a lot of prehistory in the area.
And so the monks built this beautifulstone abbey, and the town kind
of really developed alongside it.
(10:47):
I have never been to Burgundy before,but in my head, this is kind of
what a Burgundian town looks like.
On Saturday, the day we woke up,there was a market day that kind
of wound through the streets.
The Abbey was almost that kind of a, itwas like a bit of a hill, and the abbey
is of course at the top of the hill.
And it just, it does havesome tourism infrastructure.
(11:09):
I know some of the rivertours stopped there.
It's a port.
But it still seemed prettyresidential as well.
So it was a very, very good mix ofa few tourists, but also just life.
Life was happening.
Yeah.
We kind of walk through the streets, therewas, I can't remember what it's called,
(11:30):
but it's one of those medieval hospitals,that I know they have in Beaune.
And yeah, you know, it's reallyhard for me to describe it.
It was a little bit of a blur.
We rented an Airbnb, which was lovelythough, that was my first experience
in, and two steep stairs for my mom.
But we made it work.
We really just kind of usedthat as a recovery day.
We walked around the town, we wentto the main square and ate at a cafe.
(11:53):
The locals were very, very friendly,very, you know, reserved, but
also very polite and very helpful.
And the next morning before weleft, we got up and we went to the
abbey, which was, I've been to myfair share of abbeys and churches,
and this was just really unique.
I mean, you could tellthe construction was old.
(12:14):
It was, you know, in multiplephases it was preserved.
A lot of the stained glass was, I won'tsay primitive looking, but you know,
it didn't have the ornate scenes, butit was still just really beautiful.
It's also known for having a veryatmospheric crypt underneath.
And that was kind of a, one of the...my mother didn't go just because of the
(12:36):
stairs, but my friend Jamie and I went.
And we were really excited and takingvideos and then just the lights went
out and so she screamed a little.
It became a little bit out of like aHalloween movie a bit, but they came
back on and we felt a little bit better.
But it was another way to get theadrenaline pumping for a long road trip
is getting yourself locked in a darkcrypt underneath the atmospheric abbey.
(13:00):
It was just, you know,I really recommended.
Before we actually went into Tournus,there was a, I don't know if you want to
call it a wine store, but maybe it's aco-op where a lot of the producers from
Southern Burgundy have their cellar wines.
And so we did a tasting there, too.
And I really like those, I mean,come on, it's Burgundian wine, so
(13:21):
I'm going to find something to like,even though I'm from California.
It was fantastic.
It was a highlight.
And it was a really interesting town.
Not totally overrun, but just beautiful.
Pretty nice.
And the wine, the prices of the wine?
Do you remember, was itreasonable compared to California?
Yeah.
You know, my friend Jamie, she andher husband belonged to a number
of wine clubs in Napa Valley andSonoma Valley, and they spoil me.
(13:46):
But it was extremely reasonablein terms of, you know, $15,
$20, fantastic bottles of wine.
You know, reds, sparklings, thewhites I really liked, very kind
of minerally, but I like that.
So, yeah, I enjoyed it, veryreasonable, friendly folks.
We had an issue with the rental car,and we had somebody in... just an old
(14:07):
man in the streets of Burgundy flag usand we thought he was going to yell at
us for parking in the wrong spot, buthe was just trying to point out that we
needed to be careful with our radiator.
And he was very, just almost kind of likea old grandfather looking out for us.
It was a very, very lovely feeling.
Yeah.
So was there somethingwrong with your radiator?
It just, I think it was the condensationfrom the air conditioning, so...
(14:30):
Ah!
Just be careful, and we were tryingto do Google Translate and he was
trying to speak in broken English.
And it was a cultural experience,but we felt cared for.
You know, we thought it was areally lovely cultural exchange.
Yes, yes.
But in the end the car was fine.
That's good.
Yeah.
And we put it to its pacesafterwards, so it was, it was fun.
(14:51):
Yes.
All right.
So, the next morning, after visiting theAbbey, you set off to go south, I suppose.
We did.
We got up, we went through thefarmer's market, we went to the
Abbey, and then we headed south.
This was a little bit of a divergencefrom my initial plans, because I
(15:12):
wanted to stay in Provence, but Jamieand my mother, they had never seen
the Mediterranean before, you know?
And they had that kind of sentimental,you know, we want to stay by the sea.
Since Provence was also a lot of ourdestination still, the compromise
was trying to find a place thatwas, you know, close to Marseille,
(15:32):
while not being in Marseille,because I was a little worried about
overwhelming my mom with a bigger city.
And so we stayed in a town called, well,it's Martigues is the town, but the
little community is called the Carro.
And it's on somethingcalled the Côte Bleue.
Yeah.
La Côte Bleue.
Yeah.
The Blue Coast, right nextto, what would you say?
(15:53):
It's on the, the westernside of Marseille.
And I really just found an Airbnbthere that I liked, that I felt
met our needs for four or fivedays, and the host was lovely.
And it was right next to abeautiful little cove, a beach
for where the towns folk werethere swimming and having a blast.
(16:15):
It was a great home base.
Right, so June, the water wasprobably still a little bit cool.
Jamie and I, we were going toswim regardless, but that first
day it was a rude awakening.
I knew it was going tohappen, but it was still cold.
Yes.
Was it a rocky beach or sandy beach?
It was actually a sandy beach.
Ah!
A little pebbly, it was just,you know, the series of coves.
(16:36):
I wouldn't call it a calanques by anystretch of the imagination, but it was
like a micro calanques or something.
It was very small, sandy,kind of covey, gentle sloped.
It was nice.
My daughter is actuallydown in this area today.
Just earlier today, she sent mea photo of a little beach where
she is, and it's little pebbles.
(16:57):
So in that area you have both,pebbles and sandy, it just
depends on exactly where you are.
Huh?
So you just need to look itup if that matters to you.
Yes.
Yeah, I did.
For my day job, I'm a librarian andI'm a researcher and I do extensive
research on these types of things.
So I wasn't just, you know, this looksnice, it was like doing the Google Street
(17:20):
view and making little custom maps anddoing a lot of different things to.
You can plan a lot and you justdon't know until you get there.
But I was, you know, since I hadsome folks, I wanted to make sure
they had a good time, especially mymom, I put a lot of effort into to
trying to find the right locations.
Yeah, and you know, you can find out alot about, looking at Google Street view.
(17:42):
Oh, absolutely.
It's totally worth doing, even if,and I'm sure a lot of people are
nodding their heads, they are alsohyper planners or they wouldn't
be listening to this podcast.
Absolutely.
Well, I do the street view, I learneda trick where, you know, I had somebody
say I read on a forum that, you thinkabout the destinations you most want to
visit, you know, essentially do like acustom map around those areas to make
(18:07):
sure, to help you kind of map your trip.
I read reviews of destinations nearby,and I make sure to sort by French because
I want to see, even then I translate thereviews, but I want to see the perspective
of the French tourists, the localtourists, because I feel like they just
have a better sense of, you know, whatis good service or what to expect versus
(18:29):
other folks who might not be as realistic.
Right.
And people, French people aredemanding in a French way.
They don't have the sameexpectations as Americans.
That's an importantthing to do if you can.
All right, but you also went intoVaison-la-Romaine, Carpentras, Gigondas.
Yes.
(18:50):
We gave my mom a rest day, just becauseI knew I wanted to set her up in a place
where I knew she would feel comfortablejust watching TV and sleeping in.
And so, Jamie and I,I've always wanted to go.
I've never been to Provence.
I've never been to thesouthern part of France.
And so, kind of the romance of it inmy head and I wanted to see some of the
(19:10):
attractions that most interested me.
And so I've always wanted togo to a provincial, market,
flea market or antique market.
I'm more of a low end shopperthan I am a high end shopper.
So, I wanted to, Ilooked up Sunday markets.
I know there's the very famous Sundaymarket in the multi hyphenated town
(19:30):
that I'm not... L'Isle-sur-la-Sorgue.
Yes.
Thank you.
Thank you for sayingit so I didn't have to.
And so, it's like I thought, youknow, and I had read the review
saying it's lovely, but it's alsoon for the Sunday market days, it
could be really overrun with turists.
It is.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, I'm one of thoseobnoxious tourists where I'm
like, oh, other tourists, I don'twant to be around other tourists.
(19:50):
But then again, I am still a touristand I think it's important to be where
there is some tourism infrastructure.
Yeah.
I read about Carpentras and I read thatthey have a nice little bit more low key
Sunday market, which it definitely was.
It wasn't, you know, I thoughtit was going to be bigger.
It pretty much was the size of, I'd saylike two thirds of the town parking lot.
(20:15):
And the vendors were alllocal kind of antique vendors.
There were some really interestingvendors, but it wasn't super overwhelming.
And we found a parking spot reallyquickly, which was surprising.
Yeah.
We just kind of had astroll around the markets.
Got a few little vintage postcards.
We just wanted to have a stroll andlook at the wares, and so we did.
(20:38):
Mm-hmm.
Didn't have to take our entire day likeI thought maybe the other market would.
Because Jamie is very interested inwine, my friend, and her husband in
particular loves like the big, boldred wines from California, which,
you know, in that region of Franceit's not necessarily known for.
Right.
We, I looked up a place calledwhich isn't too far from there,
(20:59):
it's kind of up the mountain, andwe made it up, we walked into the
local wine tasting room, wine store.
I think what I had read is thatGigondas is very similar to
Châteauneuf-du-Pape, in terms of likethe, not, maybe, not necessarily the
quality, but like the style of wine.
(21:20):
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, Châteauneuf-du-Pape seemed,seemed a little expensive for my tastes.
Yeah.
And Gigondas seemed likea very good alternative.
And we drove up to the town.
We had, you know, went to a cafe andhad lunch, just Jamie and I. We went
wine tasting, they were fantastic.
They were just bold and smoothand the person giving us pours,
(21:43):
explained about the terroir.
And, he bonded with Jamie, becauseJamie has a French last name because she
married into a French Canadian family.
And so I think, the person's husband thatwas his wife's last name, and so we're
like, oh, well, we're cousins, I guess.
Yeah, and so we ordered somewines to be shipped to us.
Oh!
They don't ship them untilthe weather gets cooler.
(22:06):
So, around Thanksgiving time, we'regoing to be breaking open some
new Gigondas bottles of wine.
Was that expensive to get it shipped?
It was pretty expensive, youknow, Jamie's more of the wine
aficionado, so we, it wasn't expensivewhen you split the cost of it.
The bottles themselves were anywherefrom $10 to $25 to maybe $30 at most,
(22:28):
but when you're shipping them, you'readding in the shipping cost, it was
around like $45 a bottle, which, youknow is still pricey, but we're splitting
it and it's for a special occasion.
Right.
So there are people whobring an extra suitcase.
There are actually wine suit... Okay?
There are wine suitcases youcan buy that are made for that.
(22:50):
I saw one.
I was surprised.
I was like... our friends came tovisit and they brought an extra
suitcase that was made for wine.
I was like, oh, I've neverseen anything like this.
Interesting.
Jamie brought one.
Jamie brought one specifically forwine as well, because she loves wine.
And I ended up taking some of the roomfor... I'm more of a honey and an oil
(23:10):
fan, so I took some of the room up forhoney and olive oil, but it came in handy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Fantastic.
So you had, I mean, just to touch up onwhat you said, the Châteauneuf-du-Pape,
I haven't had extensive tastings,but the one place we went, the last
place we went, I didn't think itwas all that, it wasn't worth, I
(23:30):
didn't think it was worth the price.
I mean, whenever we go wine tastinganywhere we stop somewhere, we
just always buy six bottles.
Okay.
We did this just recently in Sancerre, wefound a shop that was open, we bought six
bottles, put it in the car, drove off.
I never go anywhere and buy fewer thansix bottles in Châteauneuf-du-Pape I just
(23:51):
bought the one, because I was like... Imean, I don't like it that much, you know?
So, yeah.
You know, I, and I was afraid that wasgoing to happen in Châteauneuf-du-Pape,
I mean, my mom was very interested in it.
It's very fun to say from anEnglish speaker perspective.
So that's, I think part oflike, oh, Châteauneuf-du-Pape,
...Yeah.
Everybody loves to
say
it.
You know, what I had done before is Ihad gone to some wine stores here in
(24:14):
California, thought about the regionswe were going to visit, tried to get,
buy some bottles in advance to seewhat we liked and we didn't like.
And the one bottle I could not bringmyself to buy was a Châteauneuf-du-Pape,
just because with import fees, even inCalifornia, it was punishingly expensive.
And it's like, I don't, if Ilove it, I don't want to be
stuck of buying it all the time.
(24:35):
That is a good point.
Yes.
So I, and I think Gigondas, I did someadditional research and so, if you like
it in theory, but you don't like theprice, I would love to recommend Gigondas.
And it's just a really picturesque spot.
It's a small town, it'sperched up on the hill.
You could see all the valley below,some great places to eat there.
(24:59):
I think it's a good, happy medium whereyou get some of that quality, some,
a little bit bolder of a red than youwould find in Burgundy or Bordeaux.
And the price is right.
Excellent.
Then you went to Grass and Saint Maxim.
Yes.
Well, at the end of that day,we went to Vaison-la-Romaine.
(25:20):
Oh yeah, Vaison-la-Romaine, yes.
Like I said, I'm an archeology fan andso I wanted to see the ruins there.
The most interesting part of thatis, the weather was really unsettled,
that's the one thing of French folkstalked to us about the entire time.
It's like, oh, you came on a terribletime, the weather is so unsettled.
You know, it was nice coming fromthe heat of California to have
some rain in and some overcastdays, so it didn't bother us.
(25:42):
But we understood what they meantthat day, because we got caught in
a very ferocious hailstorm right inthe middle of the archeological park.
It was shocking to see just storm cloudsroll over, like mount vent to and just
all of a sudden unleash a hailstorm on us.
And so we were running around withour shoes off, trying to find shelter.
(26:05):
Some of the workers there thoughtwe were absolutely hilarious for
trying to, you know, put bagsover our head and run around.
And they were very entertained byour antics, which I appreciated.
At one time we were like stoopedunder a tree, trying to take a
video, and then some car rolls by andcompletely like splashes me and...
Ooh.
Jamie's laughing hystericallyin the background.
(26:26):
It was an experience, it was an adventure.
Alright.
And so the next day we, well, Idon't know the next day, but we
went up and we went to to Grasse.
It was a just a wonderfulexperience making perfume.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's what youlisted as your top activity.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It was one where we were all inagreement that we liked the best.
(26:47):
Both myself, my mom, and Jamielove perfumes and cosmetics.
I saw this workshop, there's anumber of them in that town, this
one just worked out timing wise.
It was a drive from wherewe were on the other side of
Marseille, but it was worth it.
Yeah, because you weredoing this as day trips.
Yeah.
That, in retrospect, I probablywould've stationed myself a
(27:09):
little bit closer to that.
Easier to do it from Nice.
Absolutely.
As the crow flies, it doesn'tlook so bad distance wise.
Uhhuh, but those roads...
Hills and roads and it was...
And those freeways are so busy.
Oh, so busy.
California busy.
California busy.
We were prepared for the freeways.
We weren't necessarily prepared forthe tiny winding roads up the hill,
(27:33):
speed bumps in the middle of nowhere.
We actually started a game of liketrying to guess how many, we were betting
on how many roundabouts we would hit.
It's like, well, on thisstretch we're going to hit 25.
Yeah, we had a little roadgames we invented, so...
Did you get to like them in the end?
Yes, I mean, I love roundabouts.
I think they are a revelation for traffic.
Alright, that's good.
(27:54):
So the speed bumps in the middle ofnowhere, on the other hand, that's pretty
jarring, literally and figuratively.
So, we went to Grasse, wewas at Molinard Fragrances.
It was a bit of a challengefor my mom just because it
was up on the side of a hill.
Even their handicap parking, whichwe used her handicap placard, which
(28:14):
worked really well throughout France.
Mm-hmm.
It was still a bit of adifficult walk up to the hill.
My mom still said it wasworth it, more than worth it.
And yeah, we sat, they explainedkind of the fragrance pyramid and
base notes and top notes, and hadus go through a perfumers organ.
It was really interesting becausethey would have you smell the caps
(28:36):
of the fragrances that you likethe most, and then you would kind
of pull those out, dip a littlepiece of paper into the fragrance.
And so essentially they had a"nez", or I don't know if she
was in training, she was amazing.
And so she basically took all thescents that we had labeled and
dipped, rearranged them, kind offanned them in front of our face.
(28:57):
To say like, do you likethe way that smells?
Do you like the way that smells wouldkind of reconfigure it based on what we
liked and then just would kind of smellit herself and say like, okay, well if
you want to make this into a perfume, youneed to add this, this, this, and this.
We did that.
It was a little kind of like alittle chemistry experiment, where
we had the droppers in there.
(29:17):
She actually, my mom loved this,because she smelled what my mom
had kind of picked out and waslike, this is absolutely perfect.
You don't need to add anything to this.
Which she was the only person in theentire class where that happened to, so...
That's good.
Your mom has a nose.
Exactly right.
We made all of our perfumes and I'msure if any of you have, you know, if
(29:38):
you've attended one of those, they kindof label your creation and then you
could always order it from that perfumehouse, and as long, they said, as long as
you're alive, you can order it from us.
Wow.
That's great.
Which was great.
And we all had something thatsmelled a little bit different.
My mom's was very fresh.
Mine ended up smelling likepeach Coca-Cola in some strange
(29:58):
way, but it still works.
And Jamie's was very kindof bold and instinctual.
We spent some time on the road tryingto invent names for our perfumes because
we spent a lot of time in the car.
So that just, we all lovedit, we all created something.
My mom got that extra boostfrom participating in that.
And then we went to the coastto have lunch, St. Maxim, which
(30:23):
it was also another sandy beach.
Mm-hmm.
And highly recommended.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
We drove home and it was a day thatexhausted us, but it was worth it.
Wonderful.
All right.
We got to move on because wedon't have a lot of time left.
Ardèche.
Okay.
This is one place that we don'ttalk about very much on the podcast.
You did an overnight at Charmes-sur-Rhône.
(30:45):
That was one of the ones where we weretrying to have a stop in between the
Mediterranean and Loir, but we didn'twant to just go back to Burgundy.
I picked the hotel based on thefact that it had a Michelin starred
restaurant and got very good reviews.
We wanted to try it.
We hadn't really tried aMichelin star restaurant before.
I thought, you know,when in France, why not?
(31:05):
Yeah.
And I picked one that looked a littlebit more down to earth, but still
an amazing mind blowing experience.
But, while we were traveling upthere, we just discovered what an
absolutely stunning area this is, right?
Yeah.
Kind of along the Rhône River Valley,seeing the big river, you know, I'm not
a cruise person, but I did see some ofthose riverboat cruises, and I thought,
(31:29):
okay, there might be something to that.
Yes, there is something to that.
Yes, yes.
And so it was just kind of a stay alongthe river in, in the Charmes-sur-Rhône.
And the hotel that we stayed at,which I probably can't pronounce very
well, Le Carré d'Alethius, so it'sbased off there was a Roman senator,
(31:51):
apparently his tomb is in the city hall.
You can go see it.
And it's based on that romansenator, is the name of the hotel
slash Michelin starred restaurant.
It's a very small hotel, humble,it's lovely, well thought out.
But the restaurant was so good.
It was an amazing experience.
So that's called Le Carré
d'Aléthius,
(32:13):
Thank you.
And I will have all of that in theshow notes for people who want to...
Get the cheese board.
The cheese board's incredible.
I've never seen anything in it.
I don't want to sound too, yeah, I'm hokeylike, oh, I've never seen a cheeses board
in my life, but it is just next level.
Very good.
Fantastic.
And that was just for one overnight.
(32:33):
One overnight.
And then you moved on to the Loire.
We did.
We drove through anarea near Saint-Étienne.
And I, even before I knew, I said, thislooks like Pennsylvania, it's like we're
going through the Allegheny's and Coalcountry and I guess it is coal country.
Sure enough, sure enough, it is.
We had a short stop ina town called Roanne.
(32:55):
Yep.
We stopped there just for a pit stop.
I wanted to try French tacos.
And I regretted it.
I'm sorry.
Apologies to the French gourmands...
It is awful.
It's, wow, there's so many layers of goo.
Yes.
I don't even know howyou guys deal with it.
Yes, yes, yes.
I had my first French taco thisweek, by the way, and never again.
(33:18):
My first, yes.
I have seen my husband eat them and Ialways thought, I'm not having that.
This time I thought, I was very hungryand I thought, okay, this is probably
a million calories and I'm hungry.
So I had it.
And yes, I ate it, but never again.
It doesn't even taste that great.
And it's layers of goo, like you said.
(33:38):
Layers of goo.
Never have I seen this muchgoo crammed into one vessel.
Yes.
Beware.
Nothing like tacos, nothinglike a gyro or anything.
Okay.
No.
That's a separate podcast of mecomplaining about French tacos.
So yeah, we did that.
We also stopped, it's supposed tobe an up and coming wine region,
and we stopped at a, a wine caveand we got a couple of bottles.
(33:59):
And, I know you're okay with ustalking about terrible things on
this podcast, but I don't know ifnecessarily if the wine was terrible,
but there was something wrong with it.
We ended up not even bringing it backbecause it's like, I think it was corked.
Ah.
And because it just, the corkcrumbled, it tasted like vinegar.
Oh.
Maybe this needs a few days to breathe.
(34:20):
No, no, no, no.
It was bad.
So, I'm hoping that was just a flukebecause the area of these beautiful
rolling hills and, and it was nice.
So this is wine you bought in Roanne.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think it ... camp,
Was it a wine shop?
It's a wine shop, and he was very,you know, we talked to him, it's
like most typical of this region,and he knew exactly what he wanted.
(34:42):
I don't know if he was like, let'sget these busted bottles of wine and
pawn them off on these tourists...
Could be.
He didn't seem like it, but...
You never know.
It was, I don't know.
It was supposed to be likeBeaujolais based, so it's like I
know Beaujolais enough to know whatit should taste like, and it should
not taste like red wine vinegar.
So if the Roanne Tourism Board wantsto sponsor me to come back and try
(35:02):
more, I'm definitely up for it.
But otherwise, no.
Otherwise, yeah, butit's a beautiful area.
Yeah.
So we went kind of on the other side,and kind of worked our way back up to
the Loire Valley and that area, I mean,it's very pastoral and very hilly.
It reminds me of the Sierra Nevadafoothills here in California.
It's just stunning.
It's so beautiful.
(35:23):
France in general is beautiful, but thatarea was kind of took me by surprise.
And so we went to a B&Boutside of Chamonix and that
was one of our highlights.
It was such a fantastic place.
So B&B.
So what was the name of the B&B?
Let's see.
Did you write it down?
And I'm going to butcher it.
(35:45):
Domaine de la Rabouillere B&B.
Yes, and I think I looked upRabouillere which doesn't have
a lot of English translation.
No, it doesn't mean anything.
It's a rabbit sworn.
It's apparently where femalerabbits go to give birth.
That's a new one on me.
The researcher come through.
It's like, I will find thedefinition of this word.
Well, good for you.
I would, I mean, I look at this,Rabouillere, okay, whatever,
(36:06):
but it's just a name to me.
It's all good.
Good, good.
Okay.
And there were some giantrabbits around there, so...
Ah, well.
So, we did that.
And we used that as a homebase for the next five days.
We had some must sees that mymother absolutely had to see.
One of her obsessions fromreading all those books about
France was Eleanor of Aquitaine.
(36:27):
Yes, of course.
I had listened to podcasts and done myresearch enough to know that we definitely
had to go to the Fontevrault Abbey.
Yes.
It was a little disappointingfor her, just because it just,
you know, it was a prison right?
And they stripped everything... and,but it still was a lovely experience.
We ate at the restaurant there,we ended up going, thinking it
(36:50):
was just, we booked a restaurant,apparently was a tasting experience.
Uhhuh.
And it was a little bit, it wasbeautiful, and it was wonderful,
and it was just a little esoteric.
It was like we're basing this mealoff the monk who would steal down from
the hills to steal things from thegarden, and he had very expensive taste.
(37:12):
This hermit, who would, you know,come down and steal our stuff.
And so we were inspired by hisexpensive tastes in his thievery.
And so we created thistasting menu to honor him.
And than they had like a map ofall the places he would steal from.
And it was it, you know, and he clearly,the meal really proved that he did
(37:33):
have some really exceptional tastes.
The thieving hermit of the Abbey.
But it was great.
It was beautiful.
It was, I think I'm addicted to high-enddining experiences now thanks to this.
But the Abbey was a beautiful,Chenonceau she had to see because
she had read all about that as well.
Sure.
We did the boat tour of kind of goingup and under, then kind of walked around
(37:57):
and I had a much more down to earthdining experience at that cafeteria.
Which that was great.
Yeah, I want to highlight thefact that you really, really
liked this B&B, near Cheverny.
Which makes it very good, I mean,it's a good place to, a lot of people
ask me where to base yourself out ofwhen you're visiting the Loire Valley.
(38:19):
It's a hard question to answerbecause it really depends, I
mean, it's a river, it's long.
Yes.
So, it's great that yourecommend this place.
You say the breakfast was good, very kindowners, charming dog, comfortable beds.
Define comfortable bed.
I think it, it struck the rightbalance between a very firm mattress
(38:41):
and very comfortable bedding.
We had been to some places before wherethe mattresses were exceptionally firm.
Yeah.
Is good for your back, but it's notexactly something that you could
snuggle into after a long day.
Yes.
Yes.
So it was, yeah, the linens werehigh quality, everything was...
Not too hard.
Not too hard not to soft, thekind of the Goldilocks zone.
(39:03):
Excellent.
And it was like a separate, almost likegîte, or a small cottage on the property.
And usually when you rent the small gîteson the B&B properties, you don't get
breakfast, or you have to pay extra a bit.
But this was included and, youknow, we didn't even have to leave.
He would bring it in and set it up for us.
And we'd just call him to come take it.
(39:24):
His English, he was veryinsecure about his English.
Although, like most French people,when they're insecure about their
English, it's pretty much flawless.
But he, they grew honey on theproperty, not grew honey, they
produced honey on the property.
He included it in the breakfast.
It was mind blowingly good, andhe was just so charming and sweet.
He kind of gave off like dadenergy because he was always
(39:47):
like... he wanted to check in.
We took a day trip to Paris from thereand he, my mom stayed and so he checked in
with my mom, like, are the girls back yet?
Have they made it?
Is everything okay?
It was very attentive, caring servicein a beautiful family run property.
I would go just to staythere and go nowhere.
Mm. So day trip to Paris,you drove into Paris?
(40:09):
We actually, no, we drove intoOrleans to the train station
there and took a train there.
I didn't want to deal withdriving anywhere near Paris.
Okay.
Okay.
And so yeah, it was great because myfriend had never been to Paris before and
she just wanted to tick that off her box.
Although, you know, she went tothe Louvre and was completely
overwhelmed by the crowds.
I wanted no part of that, you know, justhad to check it off her list and so...
(40:32):
Yeah.
And then the last place youstayed was in Chantilly.
Yes.
It's a beautiful town, the chateau itself.
We were a little chateauout by this point.
We had been to quite a few, and sowe did kind of, we walked around the
grounds, didn't really go in therebut it, yeah, wow, it's beautiful.
(40:53):
Stunning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
I don't know why morepeople don't visit it.
it's very nice.
It's, you know, it stood up toanything in the Loire Valley.
I mean, it was beautiful.
And, you stayed there becauseyou wanted to be close to your
CDG departure the next morning.
I think they had started, we lookedat the, some of the airports hotels
(41:14):
and the prices, and they'd all of asudden gone berserk, and it's like,
I'm wondering, well, is this like thelead up to the Olympics where they're
just going to start, you know, so...
Right?
You know, just 10 miles up theroad in Chantilly, everything
was really reasonable and we'renext to a beautiful chateau.
Okay.
That sounds good.
Check, check.
(41:35):
Very good.
Alright, so we have beentalking a long time.
We need to stop.
But your notes were excellent aswell, for researchers, so I will post
those linked through the main episodepage for this, for this episode.
And overall, do you have anyadvice for people who want to do
(41:56):
a trip like this with their motheror with an elderly relative?
Yes, I do have some advice and I'lltry to make it brief as I can manage.
One thing that I didn't reallyconvey very well throughout this is
that my mom has reduced mobility.
Not, you know, complete no mobility,but had a stroke, is a very slow
(42:16):
walker unsteady on her feet.
Mm-hmm.
I, you know, wanted to stay close tocity centers and atmospheric locations.
And one thing that I didn't do is domy due diligence as much as I should
in terms of verifying staircases andthings that, you know, don't make
a difference to me, but somebodywith limited mobility, they do.
(42:37):
And you know, all of our hostswere wonderful, welcoming, if I
would've just called or sent theman email in advance, I'm sure they
would've given me more of a heads up.
So my recommendation is maybe tothink more about staying in the hotels
as much as it pains me to say, youknow, staying in a chain hotel or
something where maybe there's thatlegal governmental requirement to, if
(43:00):
you're going to say this is accessible,it's going to be an accessible room.
Right, so accessible room in French,you ask for a PMR room, which
means 'Personne à Mobilité Réduite.
Sure.
So if the room is labeled PMR, ithas to be accessible for a wheelchair
user, which means that there's goingto be a, you know, either an easy
(43:25):
ramp or an elevator, or no stairs.
Exactly.
I think, when you look at the descriptionand it says only one staircase,
because my mom said, I can go up astaircase as long as it has a rail.
Well, great.
Most of those places have astaircase, but there are steps
to even get to the staircase.
Yes.
Steps up and down.
We kind of joke like 'theseare the hidden stairs'.
(43:47):
There's always hidden stairs orhidden hills or hidden obstructions,
and so, I would recommend going forthe surety of more of a chain or at
least just taking that extra stepto reach out to folks about it.
Yes.
That was the one thing Icould have done differently.
And that's the advice to give to somebody.
It's doable, especially with extensiveresearch, but just be on the safe
(44:09):
side with your accommodations.
Right, and also realize that very often inFrance, the bathrooms are in the basement.
Yes.
So you go use the bathroom in arestaurant, and at least half of
the time it's in the basement.
And with restaurants too, you know,I love family, I like to keep the
money that I'm spending in thecommunities and family run restaurants.
(44:32):
And my mom made it, but there was somewhere it was just like, oh, well we
have your table, it's at the top ofthe spiral staircase, in the attic.
Mm.
It's, well, yeah, okay, either wecan't do it or she's really going
to have to dig deep for this.
And so we had a few of those experiences.
It didn't take away fromthe overall experience...
(44:54):
But these are difficulties that pile up.
Absolutely.
A 40-year-old who doesn'thave these challenges, I don't
necessarily think of that.
But if you're planning for somebodywith limited mobility, I would
definitely do not hesitate toreach out and ask about, you know,
logistics or go with a safer bet.
Vanessa, thank you somuch for talking to me.
(45:17):
I'm sure it's going to be very helpfulto people who are planning trips with
their family members, especially elderlyfamily members, because you got to make
the most of the time you have on earth.
And having a trip to France oncein a while makes life better.
Absolutely.
She wants to go again already,and it's like, well, let's
see what my brother's doing.
He can take you next.
(45:38):
Wonderful.
All right, Merci.
Thank you.
Au revoir!
Again, I want to thank my patrons forgiving back and supporting the show.
Patrons get several exclusiverewards for doing so, you can
see them at patreon.com/JoinUs.
(46:06):
And a special shout out this week tomy new Join us in France champions
Josh Stewart, Mike Carter, JodyFlood, Christine Cunningham and Neva.
And thank you Gregg Rudder for upgradingyour membership to yearly support.
Would you join them too?
You can do it for as little as $3 amonth, but if you can afford it, I would
(46:29):
love to have you pledge more so youcan have access to more of the rewards.
And of course when you join at the oneof the higher tiers, you also have access
to lots and lots of previous rewards.
I have worked on this for years now.
Go to patreon.com/joinus.
(46:49):
And to support Elyse goto patreon.com/ElysArt.
This week I published details of a greatwalk in Paris between the Moulin Rouge and
Passage Jouffroy, with some descriptions,and a short video, and things like that.
It's always good to have aplan for a fun walk in Paris.
(47:11):
And this week I also published mynew Paris Tour on the VoiceMap app,
which have called Paris's GothicJewels: Notre Dame Cathedral, Saint
Chappelle, and the Conciergerie.
Now, this is a tour that takes you bothinside and out of these three monuments.
It's very, very well crafted, andthis is probably the last Paris
(47:37):
VoiceMap tour I'm going to writebecause this is a huge undertaking.
It took me 10 full days of doingnothing else from 9:00 AM until 7:00 PM.
Every detail is examined about the pathI take you on, the stories I share,
the audio because unlike the podcast,the tours have sound effects and
(47:58):
musical bits to enhance the experience.
There are photos to help youfind your way, and also help you
see things that are hard to see.
In the Saint Chappelle, trust me, thereare a lot of things that are hard to see.
I mean, these VoiceMap tours are a fullimmersive experience, and these are great
because you can take them at your own pacewithout needing to make a reservation.
(48:22):
They don't cost very much.
They are just awesome, and Ilove them, but it's so much work.
I think I might be done.
Many of you have never tried one, andyou might be hesitant, I understand.
You might think, oh, let's try to joina group, have a live guide, and while
there are some great live guides,most of them are not that great.
(48:43):
First of all, in this gig economy, theguides you find on the big platforms that
you've heard of are mostly very young.
They're not French originally.
There is a huge demand for guideswho can speak English for a few
months, and then it all dries up.
The platforms take huge commissions,these guys don't get paid that much.
(49:04):
Lots of these young people do the jobfor one season, if they last that long,
and then they find something more stable,you know, more rewarding, less difficult.
Because sometimes dealing with touristsis not the easiest thing in the world.
You'll find some seasoned guidesin Paris, but they mostly have
full-time employment in museums.
(49:26):
So just know that booking a live tourin Paris is not always a guarantee.
In my opinion, there aremore downsides than upsides.
And the price of these livetours is another problem.
You know, they cost minimum50 bucks per person.
And you'll pay the same amount fora great guide as you will for a
mediocre one, and you really don'tknow what you're going to get.
(49:48):
So, if you enjoy the work that Ido, if you like my style, if you
think I know France and Paris prettywell, then try one of my tours.
It's literally taking me in your pocket.
Make me happy and get my new baby.
Paris' Gothic Jewels, NotreDame Cathedral, Sainte
Chappelle, and The Conciergerie.
And podcast listeners get a big discountfor buying these tours from my website.
(50:12):
It is wonderful because the cost isreally, really great, but only do
that if you're not in a big hurry.
It might take a few hours, perhapsa few days for you to get the codes.
And please, please, please, if youtake my latest tour Paris's Gothic
Jewels, leave a review because it'simpossible to sell digital products
(50:35):
that don't have dozens of reviews.
That's how the world works these days.
So yeah, I would love it if you wouldtry it, and you can actually do it from
home because this is one where thereare several photos at every stop, and
so you could just listen to it at home.
People ask me for restaurantrecommendations all the time, and
(50:55):
I sometimes hesitate to give anyunless I've been there and I can
tell you that it's legit, you know?
So, while in Paris, Itried some new restaurants.
I also went to some old ones again,but there were four new restaurants
that I want to tell you about.
Le Petit Chatelet on 39 Rue de laBûcherie is right by Shakespeare
(51:17):
and company, and if you get thetable upstairs, by the window, you
get a great view of Notre Dame.
I was there with mysister-in-law, Stephanie.
And she really, really loved it.
I let her have the view.
The only place you can have a view likethat is if you go to La Tour d'Argent
and, uh, you know, that's expensive.
(51:38):
Another place we went to withStephanie was Le Bistrot des Victoires.
That's on 6 Rue de la Vrillière.
In the first arrondissement,it's near the Palais Royal.
This is one that was recommendedby a friend of my daughter's.
She works at the Ministère de la Cultureat the Palais Royal, her name is Amber and
(52:01):
because I know she works there and I've,you know, she comes home once in a while,
we live in the same village, literallya stones throw away from my place.
I asked her for inexpensive places forlunch right around where she works.
Because this is an area thathas a lot of restaurants, but
some of them are pretty pricey.
She gave me a list and her listincluded a lot of Asian places.
(52:24):
She's very interested in Japanand she speaks Japanese very well.
So one of them though, she knows me, sheknows I like to eat, so she recommended
one place, this one Le Bistrot desVictoires, it's not a boullion per
se, but it's that sort of restaurant.
It's old style.
It's very full, people enjoy just the samedishes over and over again, and it was
(52:49):
really inexpensive for the food we got.
It was just, everything theyserved us was perfectly executed.
It was not fancy looking,but it was just great.
And the wait staff was lovely.
I really had a good laugh with awaitress who was taking care of us.
She had a great sense of humor.
And of course, because I was therewith my sister-in-law, I didn't
(53:09):
say any words in English, right?
I was just speaking French with her.
And so it was a very different feel.
It's interesting, when I'm withother people, because I am French
all the time, but if I'm with otherpeople who I speak English with,
they just assume I'm an American.
And the treatment is different.
If they don't hear me speak anyEnglish, they just, oh, French person.
(53:32):
And the banter and theconversations are different.
Let's put it this way.
At this Bistrot des Victoires you needto get there by noon, or it'll be full.
They might do a second service starting at1:00 or 1:15 or 1:30 but I'm not certain.
It's not huge, but it'sdefinitely worth a try.
Another place, and this is theone that was very strange, was
(53:56):
Bouillon Chartier Grands Boulevards.
Alright, so this one is right, it'son 7 Rue du Faubourg Montmartre.
It's right by the Passage Jouffroy.
And I walk in, and I was by myself, itwas right around 12:30 or something.
And the guy takes me to a tableand says: 'Right here', and there
(54:16):
was already a woman sitting there,and these are not big tables, okay?
These are really, really small tables,like my knees, my knees could touch hers
once I sat and I was like, you want me tosit with madame, Je m'assoie avec Madame?
Il me dit oui.
Yeah.
He says, yeah, that'swhere you going to sit.
I was so surprised that hadnever happened to me before.
(54:37):
Now at a bar, like if you're at abar and you're eating at the bar,
you can be side by side with otherpeople, but face to face with someone
you don't know was very strange.
I just thought, okay, what do I do?
And so I got the menu, and I was lookingat the menu thinking, and then I look
at her, of course, I had said Bonjourbefore I sat down, okay, with this lady.
(55:00):
Bonjour Madame and she responded,and she was a little older than me,
but you know, about the same age.
I sit down and I don't say much.
I'm looking at my menuthinking, oh, what the hell?
And she was eating her food, she wasn'tpaying any attention to me really.
So I thought, okay, I'm goingto ask her you know, what's
good here, like an ice breaker.
(55:22):
And so she told me that she hadbeen there 50 years ago, and she
pointed at a table, with her husband.
And I was like, oh, wow.
So immediately I'm thinking, okay,what happened to the husband?
But, I mean, I don't know this woman.
I don't want to ask her whathappened to your husband?
(55:42):
So I just said, oh, oh, how cool.
Yes, that's great.
So what's good to eat?
And she told me what she tried, andI, she didn't really know what was
good to eat, but I picked somethingthat was actually very plain.
It was good, but you know, itwasn't anything to write home about.
The food was fine.
(56:03):
Very fast service and friendly, I suppose.
And so with this lady, wechatted for about 20 minutes.
She had her dessert whileI was having my main dish.
And then she left by the time Iwas having my dessert, but it was
the really strange thing and sheasked me what I was doing in Paris.
So I told her about the podcast andI realized just now she might be
(56:25):
listening because I gave her my card.
And if you are my dear lady,don't be mad at me, I didn't know
what to say about your husband.
That was the part thatkind of threw me off.
But I am glad we got to sit and enjoy ameal together, because you were lovely.
So you never know who you'regoing to meet in Paris, right?
Especially if you eat by yourself.
(56:46):
It's kind of interesting.
I also went back to the LeSaint-Regis restaurant, by
the Cathedral, by Notre Dame.
And I met a lady who had been ona tour with me years ago that said
she was in Paris, and we said Hi,and it was lovely seeing her and
her friend that she was visiting.
And I also went back to L'Aubergedes Deux Ponts, also near Notre Dame
(57:09):
where my favorite soup Nazi works.
I don't know if I told you about this one.
This guy is, he's, you never knowif he's going to serve you or not.
So while I was there this time, I gotthere like at 12:15 and I was the only
person in the restaurant at that point.
(57:30):
Two people came and asked for a table.
I had, okay, I shouldsay I had called him.
I didn't, you don't show up at thisplace, you call to make sure it's okay.
I called and I said, I'm coming,it's just me, is that okay?
Yes, it's fine.
Come.
Okay.
And then, while I was sitting thereconsidering what I was going to have,
(57:50):
two people came and asked for a tableand he turned them both away, but he
didn't have anybody else to serve untilI was ready to leave, because I was
the only one, I was the only person hewas serving, so it went pretty fast.
He's the cook and the waiter.
It's kind of interesting.
(58:10):
And by the time I was having mydessert, a big table of six arrived
and then a big table of four arrived.
And it's true that they had reservedand he couldn't... but I mean, if he
had hurried these two people there,he could have served them quickly,
and, you know, rush them out's doorto have room for the big table.
I don't know it, it's atiny little restaurant.
(58:31):
It's very quirky, but he's a good cook.
So what can I tell you?
I'm a sucker for a good cook.
My thanks to podcast editors Anne andChristian Cotovan, who produce the
transcripts and make it sound good.
Next week on the podcast an episodewith Elyse about the Marvelous Cézanne.
(58:53):
Now, there's going to be a lot of Cézannestuff happening in France this year,
and you don't want to miss this one.
Thank you so much for listening,and I hope you join me next time so
we can look around France together.
Au revoir.
The Join Us in France travelpodcast is written, hosted, and
produced by Annie Sargent, andCopyright 2025 by AddictedToFrance.
(59:16):
It is released under a CreativeCommons attribution, non-commercial,
no derivatives license.
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