October 29, 2022 • 35 mins
Learn more at JorgeCruise.com/podcast #JorgeCruise #ZakWilliams
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Joining me today on the podcast is a dear friend Zach Williams.
(00:03):
He's an advocate for mental health and you have a term that
I want us to talk about this mental hygiene, which I think is
brilliant. First, welcome to the show.
Zack, I'm thrilled you're here. Thank you so much.
So thrilled that we can be talking today because not only
is there a ton to go over but wejust we want to share some
(00:23):
things with the world. I know you do.
I certainly do and just there's so much need.
There's so much need out there to get the right education to
folks. In need of mental health
support. I feel like this could be for
me. I've been doing this podcast act
now is our fourth season and I feel like today's conversation
for me is probably going to be the most meaningful I think.
(00:45):
For me has been something that I've really not that I've shied
away from it, sometimes taboo. If there's trauma in someone's
life out there to talk about howto fix when I think a lot of us
just numb how maybe you could share with us a little bit of
your background. But those of you, those of us
watching or listening to the podcast, you have an incredible
Legacy, you come from a family of probably, one of the most
(01:07):
iconic people on Earth, your father, Robin Williams, and
we're all fans of his work, but obviously he passed it out was a
tragedy obviously traumatic for all of us hooting obviously,
you, but can you take us back a little bit Zach, tell everyone
where you were back in the day because he grew up in a.
Is that what they call it in Hollywood?
A fishbowl? We're definitely your dad was
(01:29):
somewhat popular. When you were born already,
right? Yeah, I guess you could call it
a fishbowl. Haven't heard that term and I
like it. Yeah, when I was born, he wasn't
necessarily famous but he might have been developing a
reputation but this was before him doing film his first film's
(01:49):
world according to GARP Popeye and so forth.
He was a baby then. Wow.
And prior to that, his big breakout was before I was born.
Born or big breakout at least interms of TV and stand up relate
very much to Mork and Mindy and doing the circuit in Los Angeles
(02:12):
primarily but also San Franciscoaround stand-up comedy for me
growing up. I was born and raised in San
Francisco. I wasn't necessarily in or near
the Limelight so now I have bringing was Reasonably normal
that said, I had anxiety ever since I was a child and had
(02:38):
trouble sleeping actually insomnia for me was something
that I had since my earliest memories.
And so, for me, going through early childhood and then
adolescence, it was uncomfortable, I was
uncomfortable in my skin, I would overeat is a kid and My
(03:01):
entry into adolescence involved,a traumatic event.
My cousin. Who was someone?
I was very close with died by Suicide.
He was 13. I was 12.
That was in California. He was in Connecticut, but we
spoke a lot and I was really looking forward to him.
Coming to visit for a time and when I received the news around
(03:25):
him dying by Suicide, I didn't know how to handle it.
I have coping mechanisms, I didn't have a process per se and
for me, it catalyzed. What I would consider beginning
of a specific type of mental health in which I was coping
with trauma and the experience of feeling dysregulated and
(03:51):
feeling frustrated and more and more progressively, unhealthy me
and I found coping mechanisms through things like alcohol into
like pretty early on. So we're talking in your early
teens, right? /?
Yeah. Yeah.
Ultimately yeah, really discovering.
How it was. And I'm put this in quotes
helpful for me from years old onwards.
(04:13):
Yeah, but I just thought it was just part of managing, and I
don't know if this is a thing ornot, but I didn't have really an
environment where I saw or witness people have a healthy
relationship with alcohol. I'm not sure.
Any necessarily any relationshipwith alcohol could be considered
(04:33):
optimally healthy, I found a solution to Manage my anxiety
and rest and sleep. Me, that was a major Discovery.
It was, it was a Eureka moment. There were other elements over
the course of that period in between, for sure, it's
(04:53):
typically for me first week of living on my own in New York
City. Was September 2001.
Whoa, a 911 just before 911 justbefore I moved to New York City
and that was shit. That was my entry point into, I
guess you could call it. Adulthood so you never works out
(05:17):
of this. They say, technically legally
adulthood starts at 18 years old, the science is now showing
that your brain isn't necessarily fully developed
until you're about 25. And yeah, yeah, for me, from a
learning and coping perspective,I was traumatized by that
(05:37):
experience, but because I didn'tdirectly know people who say
were killed in that attack. I thought that I couldn't I
thought my case. Hey, you Didn't experience this
directly. Therefore, it's not something
that. Yeah, you can really validate as
being traumatic for you, I think.
(06:01):
I assume that position. For a long period of time
saying, unless it's something that directly impacts you a
close family member or someone harms you, you can't call that
traumatic. That was less worried about my
personal safety and we were. So concerned for the well-being
of my family and the state of things, I'm when you have such a
(06:25):
disruption of Your mental model of how things should be.
It's scary, right? You're thinking to yourself what
is what do things look like? Moving forward.
Everything that I thought was stable is no longer stable,
there's a period of instability and for me I took with me, the
(06:46):
whole premise of Hey, Shake It Off.
Drink it off. You can get through it, you can
manage it. But you have alcohol to manage a
lot of this. And the other thing is there's I
was of the impression there's noamount of Trauma or experience
that could ultimately take me down.
(07:07):
I think what's great? What we're going to talk about,
is this gift that comes from sometimes.
Having an ego or being alcoholic, I feel like sure
don't know. This can be a gift, but before
we get to your thing because something incredible did happen
after your father's passing. And that's obviously why you're
on the show to talk about this, incredible advocacy work that
(07:27):
you're doing. Take us to the point where then
I would say and I don't know if it's the point a climax in your
mental health where it finally just and I don't want to use
dramatic words, but we're reallywas a lot too much to handle
almost with your father's chasing.
Take us to that because that wasyears later then.
That was only how many years agomaybe eight or nine years ago is
(07:48):
that right years? Eight years, eight years passed
away just over eight years ago. So there was there's a term for
it. It's not climax, it's a nadir.
Say that again nadir NAD. IR a low.
Yeah, so for me, there is a collection of things that happen
subsequent to my father dying bySuicide, my father's widow.
(08:09):
She decided to take my siblings and I into a legal proceeding,
which was traumatic Kong as big as traumatic.
And my relationship was falling apart on long-term relationship,
had been married for over nine years and I was drinking
alcoholic lie to manage the trauma.
(08:31):
Ah and just was not having a great time of things.
And I discovered a couple thingsthat ultimately led me to the
turnaround experience. One was a commitment to advocacy
started actually teaching volunteering teaching at San
Quentin prison teaching. Financial literacy.
Wow. Yeah, I'm very passionate about
(08:54):
the financial markets and specifically education teaching
people around. The different elements that make
up the markets. But also, as it relates to
personal accountability, personal leadership and
understanding one's own assets, and liabilities as a means of
growing value self-worth and so forth through screen standing
and knowledge, but that was for me a catalyst and to ultimately
(09:19):
Getting super into mental healthadvocacy from teaching financial
literacy. I started sharing my story
started opening up somewhat and then I started working with
Mental Health Organization, starting with the company, a
not-for-profit specifically, bring change to mind which I've
been involved with for just under seven years at this point
(09:41):
and I started learning more about myself, learning more
about the trauma that I was diagnosed with post-traumatic
stress. This order, and also my personal
relationship with self-medicating and coping, and
started learning more about the anxiety.
I was experiencing and the depression and why was?
(10:03):
Self-medicating using alcohol, and the advocacy was really
healing for the trauma. Didn't necessarily help,
anxiety, and depression. And up, I started learning a
couple of things. One was I learned about.
What? I now call mental, hygiene
prioritizing Mental Health on a daily basis.
(10:26):
Love the stop drinking. Alcohol was still super stressed
and anxious. My now wife who I was dating at
the time, and this was started this process for me, started
about five years ago, be had experienced Her sister Dying by
Suicide when she was 10 years old.
(10:46):
Wow, and she had Post-traumatic stress disorder.
And all this mental health is regulation from her personal
experience through that trauma and had spent two decades.
At the, at that point. Learning more about what she
could do to manage her well-being and mental health.
(11:08):
And she found specifically Nutritional Solutions and other
things like Fitness and mindfulness.
I love that. Yeah.
Some respect therapy yet to support her well-being.
And she started teaching me about these different elements
and turns out for me, really transformative point for me was
(11:32):
discovering how nutrition can support mental well-being.
So I learned about love that. Yes, yeah, it was eye-opening, I
learned about neurotransmitter deficiency I learned about how
amino acids can support the synthesis of neurotransmitters
and it was learning about my diet.
Ultimately leading me to feelingsuper dysregulated.
(11:52):
High sugar, high fat. Yes, with the sugar.
Didn't you pack? Yeah, yeah.
But when a person I was under the impression providing, I was
exercising regularly. I can eat what I want and
providing I wasn't drinking. I would be fine and It turns out
that there's a bunch of toxic elements of in taking a bunch of
(12:15):
sugar, high fat processed foods,things like that.
Being in a new environment with toxic inputs that can ultimately
lead to. Pretty severe mental health is
regulation and showed this tumoroff-camera, my favorite little
prayer out there, you know this?Yeah, love God, grant me the
serenity to accept the things. I cannot change the courage to
(12:37):
change it. Things I can and the wisdom.
This is where it's hard sometimes to know the
difference. But using this and is that
something you would recommend topeople to possibly?
Absolutely. Yeah.
Prayer for me is a form of meditation.
Yeah. With toxic element of with an
element of mindfulness associated with it.
(12:58):
So prayer can be transformative for your body's chemistry
specific. And there's now More evidence
backed approaches towards Gathering the science and
research to support that that form of meditation.
So I discovered nutrition specifically and also
(13:20):
mindfulness meditation therapy to some respect Community
Support. I'm active in 12-step, I'm
active in recovery. The injunction of experiences
that I ultimately sought to integrate into my daily life as
mental hygiene And let's get into that.
Yep. Is that solution?
This mental hygiene Describe theterm from your perspective.
(13:43):
What is this? Can't say I coined the term.
There are other people who certainly use it, whether
they're neuro scientists or people in the business world.
But yep, we In creating my company, Pim which stands for
prepare your mind. It's also are your mind.
Love ya. It's also my middle name Pym,
not prepare your mind, we turnedit into an acronym.
(14:06):
As I thought, my father gave me that middle name, he said it
sounded vaguely Welsh, why not? But I created a company around
it along with my co-founder and wife, Olivia June Williams and
we I wanted to create a brand that stood for mental health,
advocacy, Patagonia stands for sustainability right at the lens
(14:29):
that we took in establishing this company was it's not just
about our products whether they're The Chew or the mental
hygiene kit that we're launching.
It's primarily about getting people into a mindset of
prioritizing their mental healthevery day.
And so now, We're framing our company is the mental hygiene
(14:52):
company, because we want to get people into that daily mindset
of taking care of their mental well-being.
Because that's really what it takes in this day and age.
When the stressors are out, stressors are cruel and unusual
and extent. I think what you're saying is so
important. And if anyone listening to us
right now that obviously has been through trauma, whatever
(15:13):
the trauma is, obviously, it doesn't matter.
You have to realize, and I thinkfrom the 12 steps as I'm also a
huge believer in that. I feel like it's a daily
reprieve. We get and it's just each day,
it's every morning for me, I have practice that I start my
day off to really get myself to have a good day mentally to have
my hygiene. Can you take us through, what
you suggest, what's your day? Like when you start off when you
(15:35):
have a good day? If you were to follow a recipe,
may be exact, how do you start your morning?
How do you start your day and this product that you have it's
incredible. I've tried it when we first met
you said you gave me some samples.
You happen to have something there to show them this to
product. Check this out.
Guys, our first product is the original mood shoe.
It's a Gaba, l-theanine and Rhodiola product.
(15:56):
And I love Manta. Support the body's Gaba system,
which is gamma-aminobutyric acidsystem supports information
regulation, when you're Gaba, deficient things, feel
overwhelming. It's hard to focus in some ways.
You can have that manifest as anxiety and high stress.
And, and so, our product supports the body's Gaba system.
(16:19):
And then also Through l-theanine, which is a compound
that supports the brains defaultmode Network, which is
responsible, is like rumination and focus, and so forth in
conjunction with rhodiola, whichsupports it has a
neuroprotective quality as an adaptogenic compound, these
three products that we formulated our in achoo, you
(16:42):
take the chew, you chew on it for 20 seconds.
Ideally, so it's absorbed through the mouth and that
ultimately Italy has helped manypeople with feelings of
overwhelm and stress, and worry.And, and the products that we're
now launching moving forward arevery much focused on mental
(17:03):
hygiene. The mental hygiene kit is for
products. It's a psycho biotic which are
probiotics to support the gut brain connection.
It's a magnesium stack with Amino fortification that is
meant to promote. Calm while providing some Amino
supplementation and addition to methylated B vitamins and
(17:26):
methylated folate, which people all people benefit from.
But there's a portion of the populace, which is not an
insignificant portion, it's not the majority it's under the
majority, but it's, it's it's Millions upon millions of people
with an MTHFR mutation. And if you have MTHFR mutation,
(17:47):
you can't synthesize B vitamins properly.
And so, you require methylated Bvitamins.
The better synthesize neurotransmitters specifically
serotonin and the like. And so we've got methylated B
vitamins and folate product thatthat were now Distributing and
(18:07):
also in conjunction with that assustainable.
Omega fatty acid product, that healthy fats, ya that we want to
get to people so that they can in turn support their brain
health and ultimate better mood through getting what they need
because I recently learned that the proportion of the people who
(18:29):
are getting the appropriate fatty acids through Amigas.
The general population is about 3%.
Know we're getting to all the bad fats, the signal, the bad
canola oils. Oh, and they make us.
Hungry. They make us fat, they break us
down inflammation. And yet the very thing that you
guys are doing. This is brilliant Chevron again
that that container. Do you have one of those little
(18:49):
choose in there? They're super small, they're
Killers. Can you show us one?
So basically you start your morning with one of these Zach,
tell us how you use this little guy to go into the mental health
ritual, that pays can take us through.
The rituals is, yeah, I get up in the morning.
Generally pretty early have a three-year-old boy named Mickey
and I have a one-year-old Girl named Zola and yeah, they get up
(19:14):
bright and early very generally and make them breakfast.
I do fast, there's a metabolic component to that I've become
very passionate yoga around. When I come on your show.
Will talk about that if you want.
Yeah, would love. That was supporting the body's
metabolism through mindfulness and specifically around, what we
don't eat. I tend to not overload on.
(19:36):
Okay, sugar, so forth, prior to doing all that I engage in.
Attitude exercise where I list the things that I care most
about and just ground myself andseeking you the day, with those
things. I'm appreciative of top of mind.
That's the first things I do throughout the day and then
(19:57):
after the kids eat and are my son's off to school so forth.
I make sure to limit my caffeineintake, caffeine is a Gaba
antagonist. So if you're drinking caffeine
and you take the choose, it's going to make the choose less.
Effective because caffeine is, is bonding to the Gaba
neurotransmitter, and so it's making it more challenging for
(20:19):
say, taking Gaba for Gaba that you be taking to be effective.
Do you have any compensate by taking more galba, low, lower it
down lower coffee? And then when they, when, you
know a couple hours after drinking coffee, then you take
the product and that's when it'smost effective for me person.
Do you do it? Exactly.
Do the product? The true when you're feeling
anxiety. Come on.
(20:40):
Or is it just Do you take on a schedule?
How do you do? Yeah, you can, it can have a,
it's called a prophylactic effect, a preventative effect.
I think some people equate, the here prophylactic through
thinking condoms and so forth, but really, what prophylactic
means is prevention, right prophylactic.
Yes. Oh, you should take it prior to
(21:01):
going into a stressful scenario and it will be supportive, but
you can also be feeling stressedand overwhelmed and take it and
it will be supportive as well. We don't want to To elicit
Euphoria a feeling of being highor so forth.
We're just seeking to remove those unpleasant feelings and
(21:22):
that's that then let your body just do what it does is to
support it. So like that and that's a
paradigm shift because I think most people that struggle with
any kind of addiction to sugar alcohol or drugs.
I think the high is the was the intention describe what you just
said Zach because I think what you said is it More profound.
It's not about getting high but it's about just removing say it
(21:45):
again, removing that the anxiety, right?
We happy. Yeah, it's about.
Removing those feelings that youget that might feel unpleasant
or dysregulated when I get little anxious.
I know, I know if I'm really at that point, where it's getting
to be difficult for me and I've used your product, I've known
about Gaba for a long time. My sister years ago was a big
(22:06):
advocate of it and shall we say,take your Gaba and for people
that aren't familiar? Earlier with that, this has been
around for a while. He's in there amino acids, is
that the court? Yeah, but you we toasted more.
Sure. There's it bioavailability
consideration in terms of takinga shoe and chewing it.
Letting it absorb through the mouth.
That's important. The other consideration around
(22:27):
it is, it's just part of this Mosaic that would make up the
mental hygiene ritual, the choose are helpful for me,
they've been helpful for thousands upon thousands of
other folks, but extending into the day, I make sure to always,
Try to get a walk-in try to get my steps is he'd say good
percent, let's move it up. Shake It Up.
Walk. Yeah but also it's important to
(22:48):
give aerobic activity. Ideally have a short bursts of
intensive exercise for sure. Look at tree, I love that sound
meditation, extremely helpful for me but short meditation, you
only 15, 20 minutes, total heat,even do a five minute
meditation. It can be helpful.
It's shown to be effective for neurogenesis or pardon me.
(23:10):
There's a specific report. It's shown to be effective in
terms of supporting and catalyzing a neuroplastic state
in which your brain then is ableto.
When your brain is in a neuroplastic state can make and
facilitate Connections in new and unique ways versus not being
in a neuroplastic state. There are two things that
support neuroplastic States in adults.
(23:33):
Tell meditation. Yeah, psychedelics.
Whoa. Yeah, and so meditation is To be
very effective for helping catalyze, a neuroplastic state
in which you can change and establish even deeply ingrained
behaviors form Pathways, which can ultimately help you have
better outcomes relating to yourmental health, and so forth.
(23:54):
So that's actually, I've heard how powerful meditation is,
would you honor Us by giving us a sample?
Something you, and I can do withpeople right now for a minute or
two. A simple demo.
Can you do a little meditation? And for me, it's the Serenity
Prayer to form of Prayer meditation.
It could be that if you have a little something you could walk
us through and we'll do it together.
(24:15):
Certainly. Yeah.
What would be something you suggest sure.
An easy way to do it is to just take two minutes of Stillness
and just taking the opportunity still together.
Focus on your breath. A nice way to think about it is.
There's a count. There's a way to support on this
and Stillness in your mind and it's racing.
(24:38):
You breathe in for four seconds,count to five and exhale for
seven seconds. And then we can do this for two
minutes. Let's do it.
Let's set a timer. You got in touch with her.
Yep. Perfect.
I'll set it to and again, and wecabron follow along with us.
(24:59):
Zack. Do you mind leading it, Force,
you, take us through, sure. I'm gonna just set a timer.
You got it, and just breathe in,and out.
And this is a breathing meditation, but helpful, in
terms of establishing a sense ofStillness and calmness,
especially if you're feeling dysregulated.
So, let's give it a go starting now.
(27:18):
And time. Wow, I feel you.
How would you describe it? Because there is a massive
shift, right? Back the way in which the breath
exercise supports calming. You is a doing.
These exercises helps manage things like parasympathetic
(27:38):
arousal, when you're experiencing.
The parasympathetic sympathetic State.
You can feel agitated and so forth.
And if you're managing to sootheyour system through different
means what ends up happening is your body, feels more grounded.
Your mind, feels more grounded, and the reason why the counting
(27:59):
with breath is so effective is because it helps keep you from
racing around other things. It's grounding, of course, you
don't need to ultimately, it canbecome more automatic and you're
not. Thinking about your breath,
you're not thinking about those other things.
You're just ultimately just feeling the air come in and out
(28:20):
and your body starts a tuning itself to just a natural Rim.
Pardon me. A natural rhythm of I'm trying
to be the best word for it. It's a shame to see them of
soothing Sue, right? Yeah 100%.
I feel like yeah so many people look for example, I known in 12
steps. I see a lot of people that smoke
and yet you can't smoke but you can do this without this.
(28:41):
Folk, it's even healthier because all you're doing is
oxygenating your body and it's creating that that incredible
natural rhythms act that causes our heart and soul.
I think, even our spirit to feela sense of safety is that?
I think that's yelling. Yeah, sure.
You know, as you think about longer meditations and your body
(29:03):
part of the, your mind can race still think things and be
meditating effectively. I think people forget that in
terms of, yeah, you can. 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minute
meditation, you can be stressed and anxious and your mind can be
racing, it will still have a beneficial effect, you know,
some even if you're not practicing it.
And so the thing for me is that's an important element of
(29:27):
the mental hygiene ritual, for me personally.
And then extending beyond that 12-step community support
finding meaningful connection and opportunity to be loving and
find that grounding and daily appreciation and respect and
love for people. People is really helpful as
well. I love that.
I think it's such a great Community to have that
accountability to that encourages us to stay in a place
(29:51):
where we have a sense of faith and where there's that
connection to the truth and the reality that we're all
interconnected and this higher power in our lives can give us
this energy through simple practices and I think what
you're doing with your wife is so incredible.
Zach, I'm just so grateful for what you've shared if people
watching and listening want to reach out.
(30:11):
Want to try your to will you, please give them all the
information? How to get a hold of you and how
to get ahold of the product, please?
Sure. Yeah, websites very simple, it's
tim.com. You can learn all about what
we're doing and what we're seeking to do in terms of our
mental health advocacy Mission. Yep, our approach to mental
hygiene and all the products that we're going to be launching
(30:34):
coming up and the products that were now We now have in Market
to totally whether it's a mentalspell, the website for everyone.
Make sure you spell it for us sowe have it and tell us the
social as well on Instagram. I'm assuming Facebook and all
that go ahead. Yeah, sure.
You can follow us on Instagram at.
Youc am Pym. You can pimp m.com, is our
(30:54):
website. You can also do, you can Pim.com
but right plain and simple Twitter, you can Pim follow us.
Learn more about what we're up to, and we look forward to
hearing from you because we are constantly seeking Tune and
iterate and provide better. More supportive experiences is
we learn more about the researchand the evidence backed approach
(31:16):
to our product development. So love it.
I'm so honored to have you on the show here.
Zach. I hope you can join us again,
and I feel like your work is incredible.
Once the kit is available, we want to showcase that all the
different pieces, but thank you for showing us the choose, guys,
get these choose. They are not just even
delicious, but they're so effective.
And I remember when you gave himto me, I had them that weekend
(31:38):
and I just absolutely love them and they're so simple and
effective. Again, the website guys, we're
gonna have it in the show notes Zach.
Thank you so much for your time.Thank you for what you're doing
and thank you for sharing with us how you've turned this Our
Lives because I'm in the same boat with.
It's been an interesting life for me and I know for you but
there's a gift in this, right? And it really is this gift that
(32:00):
comes from knowledge that comes from learning and I'm just so
grateful that you're so passionate about making this.
Not just a job or career for what you're doing, but this is
your mission and we're excited to see the next level.
And next year more, I'm sure please give my best to your
family. Thanks Jorge looking forward to
speaking more very soon and the mental health but it's now
(32:22):
available. So it is available, perfect.
Alright, you can check it out. I can just pick it up, guys.
Pick up everything. Get to choose Zach.
Thank you so much. All right, peace and purpose.
My friend. Thank you and see you.
Same to you. Thank you so much.
All right. Today's episode is complete
guys. Thank you so much for listening
and I want to ask you to. Please subscribe to the show on
(32:43):
Apple podcast and please leave areview on Apple as well.
Give it five stars. If you think the show has helped
you in some way to transform your thinking, I hope it has and
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today's episode did for your thinking and what you got out of
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And for me this is a revolution,this is A podcast, this is a way
(33:06):
of life and I hope to transform over a million lives in the next
couple of years and I need your help.
So please become part of the zero.
Hunger Revolution by leaving that review, on Apple podcast
and subscribing today. Thanks so much, have a great one
piece of purpose and I'll see you on the next episode.
Joining me today on the podcast is a dear friend Zach Williams.
(00:03):
He's an advocate for mental health and you have a term that
I want us to talk about this mental hygiene, which I think is
brilliant. First, welcome to the show.
Zack, I'm thrilled you're here. Thank you so much.
So thrilled that we can be talking today because not only
is there a ton to go over but wejust we want to share some
(00:23):
things with the world. I know you do.
I certainly do and just there's so much need.
There's so much need out there to get the right education to
folks. In need of mental health
support. I feel like this could be for
me. I've been doing this podcast act
now is our fourth season and I feel like today's conversation
for me is probably going to be the most meaningful I think.
(00:45):
For me has been something that I've really not that I've shied
away from it, sometimes taboo. If there's trauma in someone's
life out there to talk about howto fix when I think a lot of us
just numb how maybe you could share with us a little bit of
your background. But those of you, those of us
watching or listening to the podcast, you have an incredible
Legacy, you come from a family of probably, one of the most
(01:07):
iconic people on Earth, your father, Robin Williams, and
we're all fans of his work, but obviously he passed it out was a
tragedy obviously traumatic for all of us hooting obviously,
you, but can you take us back a little bit Zach, tell everyone
where you were back in the day because he grew up in a.
Is that what they call it in Hollywood?
A fishbowl? We're definitely your dad was
(01:29):
somewhat popular. When you were born already,
right? Yeah, I guess you could call it
a fishbowl. Haven't heard that term and I
like it. Yeah, when I was born, he wasn't
necessarily famous but he might have been developing a
reputation but this was before him doing film his first film's
(01:49):
world according to GARP Popeye and so forth.
He was a baby then. Wow.
And prior to that, his big breakout was before I was born.
Born or big breakout at least interms of TV and stand up relate
very much to Mork and Mindy and doing the circuit in Los Angeles
(02:12):
primarily but also San Franciscoaround stand-up comedy for me
growing up. I was born and raised in San
Francisco. I wasn't necessarily in or near
the Limelight so now I have bringing was Reasonably normal
that said, I had anxiety ever since I was a child and had
(02:38):
trouble sleeping actually insomnia for me was something
that I had since my earliest memories.
And so, for me, going through early childhood and then
adolescence, it was uncomfortable, I was
uncomfortable in my skin, I would overeat is a kid and My
(03:01):
entry into adolescence involved,a traumatic event.
My cousin. Who was someone?
I was very close with died by Suicide.
He was 13. I was 12.
That was in California. He was in Connecticut, but we
spoke a lot and I was really looking forward to him.
Coming to visit for a time and when I received the news around
(03:25):
him dying by Suicide, I didn't know how to handle it.
I have coping mechanisms, I didn't have a process per se and
for me, it catalyzed. What I would consider beginning
of a specific type of mental health in which I was coping
with trauma and the experience of feeling dysregulated and
(03:51):
feeling frustrated and more and more progressively, unhealthy me
and I found coping mechanisms through things like alcohol into
like pretty early on. So we're talking in your early
teens, right? /?
Yeah. Yeah.
Ultimately yeah, really discovering.
How it was. And I'm put this in quotes
helpful for me from years old onwards.
(04:13):
Yeah, but I just thought it was just part of managing, and I
don't know if this is a thing ornot, but I didn't have really an
environment where I saw or witness people have a healthy
relationship with alcohol. I'm not sure.
Any necessarily any relationshipwith alcohol could be considered
(04:33):
optimally healthy, I found a solution to Manage my anxiety
and rest and sleep. Me, that was a major Discovery.
It was, it was a Eureka moment. There were other elements over
the course of that period in between, for sure, it's
(04:53):
typically for me first week of living on my own in New York
City. Was September 2001.
Whoa, a 911 just before 911 justbefore I moved to New York City
and that was shit. That was my entry point into, I
guess you could call it. Adulthood so you never works out
(05:17):
of this. They say, technically legally
adulthood starts at 18 years old, the science is now showing
that your brain isn't necessarily fully developed
until you're about 25. And yeah, yeah, for me, from a
learning and coping perspective,I was traumatized by that
(05:37):
experience, but because I didn'tdirectly know people who say
were killed in that attack. I thought that I couldn't I
thought my case. Hey, you Didn't experience this
directly. Therefore, it's not something
that. Yeah, you can really validate as
being traumatic for you, I think.
(06:01):
I assume that position. For a long period of time
saying, unless it's something that directly impacts you a
close family member or someone harms you, you can't call that
traumatic. That was less worried about my
personal safety and we were. So concerned for the well-being
of my family and the state of things, I'm when you have such a
(06:25):
disruption of Your mental model of how things should be.
It's scary, right? You're thinking to yourself what
is what do things look like? Moving forward.
Everything that I thought was stable is no longer stable,
there's a period of instability and for me I took with me, the
(06:46):
whole premise of Hey, Shake It Off.
Drink it off. You can get through it, you can
manage it. But you have alcohol to manage a
lot of this. And the other thing is there's I
was of the impression there's noamount of Trauma or experience
that could ultimately take me down.
(07:07):
I think what's great? What we're going to talk about,
is this gift that comes from sometimes.
Having an ego or being alcoholic, I feel like sure
don't know. This can be a gift, but before
we get to your thing because something incredible did happen
after your father's passing. And that's obviously why you're
on the show to talk about this, incredible advocacy work that
(07:27):
you're doing. Take us to the point where then
I would say and I don't know if it's the point a climax in your
mental health where it finally just and I don't want to use
dramatic words, but we're reallywas a lot too much to handle
almost with your father's chasing.
Take us to that because that wasyears later then.
That was only how many years agomaybe eight or nine years ago is
(07:48):
that right years? Eight years, eight years passed
away just over eight years ago. So there was there's a term for
it. It's not climax, it's a nadir.
Say that again nadir NAD. IR a low.
Yeah, so for me, there is a collection of things that happen
subsequent to my father dying bySuicide, my father's widow.
(08:09):
She decided to take my siblings and I into a legal proceeding,
which was traumatic Kong as big as traumatic.
And my relationship was falling apart on long-term relationship,
had been married for over nine years and I was drinking
alcoholic lie to manage the trauma.
(08:31):
Ah and just was not having a great time of things.
And I discovered a couple thingsthat ultimately led me to the
turnaround experience. One was a commitment to advocacy
started actually teaching volunteering teaching at San
Quentin prison teaching. Financial literacy.
Wow. Yeah, I'm very passionate about
(08:54):
the financial markets and specifically education teaching
people around. The different elements that make
up the markets. But also, as it relates to
personal accountability, personal leadership and
understanding one's own assets, and liabilities as a means of
growing value self-worth and so forth through screen standing
and knowledge, but that was for me a catalyst and to ultimately
(09:19):
Getting super into mental healthadvocacy from teaching financial
literacy. I started sharing my story
started opening up somewhat and then I started working with
Mental Health Organization, starting with the company, a
not-for-profit specifically, bring change to mind which I've
been involved with for just under seven years at this point
(09:41):
and I started learning more about myself, learning more
about the trauma that I was diagnosed with post-traumatic
stress. This order, and also my personal
relationship with self-medicating and coping, and
started learning more about the anxiety.
I was experiencing and the depression and why was?
(10:03):
Self-medicating using alcohol, and the advocacy was really
healing for the trauma. Didn't necessarily help,
anxiety, and depression. And up, I started learning a
couple of things. One was I learned about.
What? I now call mental, hygiene
prioritizing Mental Health on a daily basis.
(10:26):
Love the stop drinking. Alcohol was still super stressed
and anxious. My now wife who I was dating at
the time, and this was started this process for me, started
about five years ago, be had experienced Her sister Dying by
Suicide when she was 10 years old.
(10:46):
Wow, and she had Post-traumatic stress disorder.
And all this mental health is regulation from her personal
experience through that trauma and had spent two decades.
At the, at that point. Learning more about what she
could do to manage her well-being and mental health.
(11:08):
And she found specifically Nutritional Solutions and other
things like Fitness and mindfulness.
I love that. Yeah.
Some respect therapy yet to support her well-being.
And she started teaching me about these different elements
and turns out for me, really transformative point for me was
(11:32):
discovering how nutrition can support mental well-being.
So I learned about love that. Yes, yeah, it was eye-opening, I
learned about neurotransmitter deficiency I learned about how
amino acids can support the synthesis of neurotransmitters
and it was learning about my diet.
Ultimately leading me to feelingsuper dysregulated.
(11:52):
High sugar, high fat. Yes, with the sugar.
Didn't you pack? Yeah, yeah.
But when a person I was under the impression providing, I was
exercising regularly. I can eat what I want and
providing I wasn't drinking. I would be fine and It turns out
that there's a bunch of toxic elements of in taking a bunch of
(12:15):
sugar, high fat processed foods,things like that.
Being in a new environment with toxic inputs that can ultimately
lead to. Pretty severe mental health is
regulation and showed this tumoroff-camera, my favorite little
prayer out there, you know this?Yeah, love God, grant me the
serenity to accept the things. I cannot change the courage to
(12:37):
change it. Things I can and the wisdom.
This is where it's hard sometimes to know the
difference. But using this and is that
something you would recommend topeople to possibly?
Absolutely. Yeah.
Prayer for me is a form of meditation.
Yeah. With toxic element of with an
element of mindfulness associated with it.
(12:58):
So prayer can be transformative for your body's chemistry
specific. And there's now More evidence
backed approaches towards Gathering the science and
research to support that that form of meditation.
So I discovered nutrition specifically and also
(13:20):
mindfulness meditation therapy to some respect Community
Support. I'm active in 12-step, I'm
active in recovery. The injunction of experiences
that I ultimately sought to integrate into my daily life as
mental hygiene And let's get into that.
Yep. Is that solution?
This mental hygiene Describe theterm from your perspective.
(13:43):
What is this? Can't say I coined the term.
There are other people who certainly use it, whether
they're neuro scientists or people in the business world.
But yep, we In creating my company, Pim which stands for
prepare your mind. It's also are your mind.
Love ya. It's also my middle name Pym,
not prepare your mind, we turnedit into an acronym.
(14:06):
As I thought, my father gave me that middle name, he said it
sounded vaguely Welsh, why not? But I created a company around
it along with my co-founder and wife, Olivia June Williams and
we I wanted to create a brand that stood for mental health,
advocacy, Patagonia stands for sustainability right at the lens
(14:29):
that we took in establishing this company was it's not just
about our products whether they're The Chew or the mental
hygiene kit that we're launching.
It's primarily about getting people into a mindset of
prioritizing their mental healthevery day.
And so now, We're framing our company is the mental hygiene
(14:52):
company, because we want to get people into that daily mindset
of taking care of their mental well-being.
Because that's really what it takes in this day and age.
When the stressors are out, stressors are cruel and unusual
and extent. I think what you're saying is so
important. And if anyone listening to us
right now that obviously has been through trauma, whatever
(15:13):
the trauma is, obviously, it doesn't matter.
You have to realize, and I thinkfrom the 12 steps as I'm also a
huge believer in that. I feel like it's a daily
reprieve. We get and it's just each day,
it's every morning for me, I have practice that I start my
day off to really get myself to have a good day mentally to have
my hygiene. Can you take us through, what
you suggest, what's your day? Like when you start off when you
(15:35):
have a good day? If you were to follow a recipe,
may be exact, how do you start your morning?
How do you start your day and this product that you have it's
incredible. I've tried it when we first met
you said you gave me some samples.
You happen to have something there to show them this to
product. Check this out.
Guys, our first product is the original mood shoe.
It's a Gaba, l-theanine and Rhodiola product.
(15:56):
And I love Manta. Support the body's Gaba system,
which is gamma-aminobutyric acidsystem supports information
regulation, when you're Gaba, deficient things, feel
overwhelming. It's hard to focus in some ways.
You can have that manifest as anxiety and high stress.
And, and so, our product supports the body's Gaba system.
(16:19):
And then also Through l-theanine, which is a compound
that supports the brains defaultmode Network, which is
responsible, is like rumination and focus, and so forth in
conjunction with rhodiola, whichsupports it has a
neuroprotective quality as an adaptogenic compound, these
three products that we formulated our in achoo, you
(16:42):
take the chew, you chew on it for 20 seconds.
Ideally, so it's absorbed through the mouth and that
ultimately Italy has helped manypeople with feelings of
overwhelm and stress, and worry.And, and the products that we're
now launching moving forward arevery much focused on mental
(17:03):
hygiene. The mental hygiene kit is for
products. It's a psycho biotic which are
probiotics to support the gut brain connection.
It's a magnesium stack with Amino fortification that is
meant to promote. Calm while providing some Amino
supplementation and addition to methylated B vitamins and
(17:26):
methylated folate, which people all people benefit from.
But there's a portion of the populace, which is not an
insignificant portion, it's not the majority it's under the
majority, but it's, it's it's Millions upon millions of people
with an MTHFR mutation. And if you have MTHFR mutation,
(17:47):
you can't synthesize B vitamins properly.
And so, you require methylated Bvitamins.
The better synthesize neurotransmitters specifically
serotonin and the like. And so we've got methylated B
vitamins and folate product thatthat were now Distributing and
(18:07):
also in conjunction with that assustainable.
Omega fatty acid product, that healthy fats, ya that we want to
get to people so that they can in turn support their brain
health and ultimate better mood through getting what they need
because I recently learned that the proportion of the people who
(18:29):
are getting the appropriate fatty acids through Amigas.
The general population is about 3%.
Know we're getting to all the bad fats, the signal, the bad
canola oils. Oh, and they make us.
Hungry. They make us fat, they break us
down inflammation. And yet the very thing that you
guys are doing. This is brilliant Chevron again
that that container. Do you have one of those little
(18:49):
choose in there? They're super small, they're
Killers. Can you show us one?
So basically you start your morning with one of these Zach,
tell us how you use this little guy to go into the mental health
ritual, that pays can take us through.
The rituals is, yeah, I get up in the morning.
Generally pretty early have a three-year-old boy named Mickey
and I have a one-year-old Girl named Zola and yeah, they get up
(19:14):
bright and early very generally and make them breakfast.
I do fast, there's a metabolic component to that I've become
very passionate yoga around. When I come on your show.
Will talk about that if you want.
Yeah, would love. That was supporting the body's
metabolism through mindfulness and specifically around, what we
don't eat. I tend to not overload on.
(19:36):
Okay, sugar, so forth, prior to doing all that I engage in.
Attitude exercise where I list the things that I care most
about and just ground myself andseeking you the day, with those
things. I'm appreciative of top of mind.
That's the first things I do throughout the day and then
(19:57):
after the kids eat and are my son's off to school so forth.
I make sure to limit my caffeineintake, caffeine is a Gaba
antagonist. So if you're drinking caffeine
and you take the choose, it's going to make the choose less.
Effective because caffeine is, is bonding to the Gaba
neurotransmitter, and so it's making it more challenging for
(20:19):
say, taking Gaba for Gaba that you be taking to be effective.
Do you have any compensate by taking more galba, low, lower it
down lower coffee? And then when they, when, you
know a couple hours after drinking coffee, then you take
the product and that's when it'smost effective for me person.
Do you do it? Exactly.
Do the product? The true when you're feeling
anxiety. Come on.
(20:40):
Or is it just Do you take on a schedule?
How do you do? Yeah, you can, it can have a,
it's called a prophylactic effect, a preventative effect.
I think some people equate, the here prophylactic through
thinking condoms and so forth, but really, what prophylactic
means is prevention, right prophylactic.
Yes. Oh, you should take it prior to
(21:01):
going into a stressful scenario and it will be supportive, but
you can also be feeling stressedand overwhelmed and take it and
it will be supportive as well. We don't want to To elicit
Euphoria a feeling of being highor so forth.
We're just seeking to remove those unpleasant feelings and
(21:22):
that's that then let your body just do what it does is to
support it. So like that and that's a
paradigm shift because I think most people that struggle with
any kind of addiction to sugar alcohol or drugs.
I think the high is the was the intention describe what you just
said Zach because I think what you said is it More profound.
It's not about getting high but it's about just removing say it
(21:45):
again, removing that the anxiety, right?
We happy. Yeah, it's about.
Removing those feelings that youget that might feel unpleasant
or dysregulated when I get little anxious.
I know, I know if I'm really at that point, where it's getting
to be difficult for me and I've used your product, I've known
about Gaba for a long time. My sister years ago was a big
(22:06):
advocate of it and shall we say,take your Gaba and for people
that aren't familiar? Earlier with that, this has been
around for a while. He's in there amino acids, is
that the court? Yeah, but you we toasted more.
Sure. There's it bioavailability
consideration in terms of takinga shoe and chewing it.
Letting it absorb through the mouth.
That's important. The other consideration around
(22:27):
it is, it's just part of this Mosaic that would make up the
mental hygiene ritual, the choose are helpful for me,
they've been helpful for thousands upon thousands of
other folks, but extending into the day, I make sure to always,
Try to get a walk-in try to get my steps is he'd say good
percent, let's move it up. Shake It Up.
Walk. Yeah but also it's important to
(22:48):
give aerobic activity. Ideally have a short bursts of
intensive exercise for sure. Look at tree, I love that sound
meditation, extremely helpful for me but short meditation, you
only 15, 20 minutes, total heat,even do a five minute
meditation. It can be helpful.
It's shown to be effective for neurogenesis or pardon me.
(23:10):
There's a specific report. It's shown to be effective in
terms of supporting and catalyzing a neuroplastic state
in which your brain then is ableto.
When your brain is in a neuroplastic state can make and
facilitate Connections in new and unique ways versus not being
in a neuroplastic state. There are two things that
support neuroplastic States in adults.
(23:33):
Tell meditation. Yeah, psychedelics.
Whoa. Yeah, and so meditation is To be
very effective for helping catalyze, a neuroplastic state
in which you can change and establish even deeply ingrained
behaviors form Pathways, which can ultimately help you have
better outcomes relating to yourmental health, and so forth.
(23:54):
So that's actually, I've heard how powerful meditation is,
would you honor Us by giving us a sample?
Something you, and I can do withpeople right now for a minute or
two. A simple demo.
Can you do a little meditation? And for me, it's the Serenity
Prayer to form of Prayer meditation.
It could be that if you have a little something you could walk
us through and we'll do it together.
(24:15):
Certainly. Yeah.
What would be something you suggest sure.
An easy way to do it is to just take two minutes of Stillness
and just taking the opportunity still together.
Focus on your breath. A nice way to think about it is.
There's a count. There's a way to support on this
and Stillness in your mind and it's racing.
(24:38):
You breathe in for four seconds,count to five and exhale for
seven seconds. And then we can do this for two
minutes. Let's do it.
Let's set a timer. You got in touch with her.
Yep. Perfect.
I'll set it to and again, and wecabron follow along with us.
(24:59):
Zack. Do you mind leading it, Force,
you, take us through, sure. I'm gonna just set a timer.
You got it, and just breathe in,and out.
And this is a breathing meditation, but helpful, in
terms of establishing a sense ofStillness and calmness,
especially if you're feeling dysregulated.
So, let's give it a go starting now.
(27:18):
And time. Wow, I feel you.
How would you describe it? Because there is a massive
shift, right? Back the way in which the breath
exercise supports calming. You is a doing.
These exercises helps manage things like parasympathetic
(27:38):
arousal, when you're experiencing.
The parasympathetic sympathetic State.
You can feel agitated and so forth.
And if you're managing to sootheyour system through different
means what ends up happening is your body, feels more grounded.
Your mind, feels more grounded, and the reason why the counting
(27:59):
with breath is so effective is because it helps keep you from
racing around other things. It's grounding, of course, you
don't need to ultimately, it canbecome more automatic and you're
not. Thinking about your breath,
you're not thinking about those other things.
You're just ultimately just feeling the air come in and out
(28:20):
and your body starts a tuning itself to just a natural Rim.
Pardon me. A natural rhythm of I'm trying
to be the best word for it. It's a shame to see them of
soothing Sue, right? Yeah 100%.
I feel like yeah so many people look for example, I known in 12
steps. I see a lot of people that smoke
and yet you can't smoke but you can do this without this.
(28:41):
Folk, it's even healthier because all you're doing is
oxygenating your body and it's creating that that incredible
natural rhythms act that causes our heart and soul.
I think, even our spirit to feela sense of safety is that?
I think that's yelling. Yeah, sure.
You know, as you think about longer meditations and your body
(29:03):
part of the, your mind can race still think things and be
meditating effectively. I think people forget that in
terms of, yeah, you can. 20 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minute
meditation, you can be stressed and anxious and your mind can be
racing, it will still have a beneficial effect, you know,
some even if you're not practicing it.
And so the thing for me is that's an important element of
(29:27):
the mental hygiene ritual, for me personally.
And then extending beyond that 12-step community support
finding meaningful connection and opportunity to be loving and
find that grounding and daily appreciation and respect and
love for people. People is really helpful as
well. I love that.
I think it's such a great Community to have that
accountability to that encourages us to stay in a place
(29:51):
where we have a sense of faith and where there's that
connection to the truth and the reality that we're all
interconnected and this higher power in our lives can give us
this energy through simple practices and I think what
you're doing with your wife is so incredible.
Zach, I'm just so grateful for what you've shared if people
watching and listening want to reach out.
(30:11):
Want to try your to will you, please give them all the
information? How to get a hold of you and how
to get ahold of the product, please?
Sure. Yeah, websites very simple, it's
tim.com. You can learn all about what
we're doing and what we're seeking to do in terms of our
mental health advocacy Mission. Yep, our approach to mental
hygiene and all the products that we're going to be launching
(30:34):
coming up and the products that were now We now have in Market
to totally whether it's a mentalspell, the website for everyone.
Make sure you spell it for us sowe have it and tell us the
social as well on Instagram. I'm assuming Facebook and all
that go ahead. Yeah, sure.
You can follow us on Instagram at.
Youc am Pym. You can pimp m.com, is our
(30:54):
website. You can also do, you can Pim.com
but right plain and simple Twitter, you can Pim follow us.
Learn more about what we're up to, and we look forward to
hearing from you because we are constantly seeking Tune and
iterate and provide better. More supportive experiences is
we learn more about the researchand the evidence backed approach
(31:16):
to our product development. So love it.
I'm so honored to have you on the show here.
Zach. I hope you can join us again,
and I feel like your work is incredible.
Once the kit is available, we want to showcase that all the
different pieces, but thank you for showing us the choose, guys,
get these choose. They are not just even
delicious, but they're so effective.
And I remember when you gave himto me, I had them that weekend
(31:38):
and I just absolutely love them and they're so simple and
effective. Again, the website guys, we're
gonna have it in the show notes Zach.
Thank you so much for your time.Thank you for what you're doing
and thank you for sharing with us how you've turned this Our
Lives because I'm in the same boat with.
It's been an interesting life for me and I know for you but
there's a gift in this, right? And it really is this gift that
(32:00):
comes from knowledge that comes from learning and I'm just so
grateful that you're so passionate about making this.
Not just a job or career for what you're doing, but this is
your mission and we're excited to see the next level.
And next year more, I'm sure please give my best to your
family. Thanks Jorge looking forward to
speaking more very soon and the mental health but it's now
(32:22):
available. So it is available, perfect.
Alright, you can check it out. I can just pick it up, guys.
Pick up everything. Get to choose Zach.
Thank you so much. All right, peace and purpose.
My friend. Thank you and see you.
Same to you. Thank you so much.
All right. Today's episode is complete
guys. Thank you so much for listening
and I want to ask you to. Please subscribe to the show on
(32:43):
Apple podcast and please leave areview on Apple as well.
Give it five stars. If you think the show has helped
you in some way to transform your thinking, I hope it has and
more importantly, share your comments, your review of what
today's episode did for your thinking and what you got out of
it because I think that is how we spread this.
And for me this is a revolution,this is A podcast, this is a way
(33:06):
of life and I hope to transform over a million lives in the next
couple of years and I need your help.
So please become part of the zero.
Hunger Revolution by leaving that review, on Apple podcast
and subscribing today. Thanks so much, have a great one
piece of purpose and I'll see you on the next episode.
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Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!