July 23, 2025 • 31 mins
This week’s “How She Finds Purpose” insight comes from Naaima Khan. She says –
“Take care of your spiritual self first. Really ground yourself in what anchors you from your principles, whether it's tied to a specific spiritual practice or not, whether it's informed by a community or not. But I think wherever you're able to find and kind of tap into that spiritual base and keep it well and keep your heart well, and I'm not just talking about the physical exercise of the heart, which is also very important, but just the emotional state of the heart, like a peaceful heart. Being able to tend to creating that peaceful heart is going to be really central to doing work that is sustainable.”
Here are 3 reasons why you should listen to this episode
-
Hear what it really looks like to make a big career leap—without romanticizing it. Naaima shares how small, intentional shifts helped her move from burnout to building a values-aligned business
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If you're questioning your current role, Naaima’s story will help you spot the subtle signs of misalignment and show you what it means to listen to your deeper calling
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Gain a fresh perspective on meaningful work. Purpose-led work doesn’t have to be flashy or grand—it can be quiet, steady, and rooted in doing good right where you are
Naaima Khan is a senior strategist and founder of Create Good, where she helps organizations advance racial and economic equity. With over 15 years in the social sector and a thoughtful shift from DEI to anti-colonial frameworks, her work is grounded in deep values, authenticity, and a commitment to justice.
Connect with Naaima at:
Email: naaimakhan@creategood.biz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naaimakhan
Website: https://www.creategood.space/
Would you prefer to watch or listen to the podcast on YouTube?
Head on over to https://www.youtube.com/@leadershippurposepodcast
Want to connect? Connect with Dr. Robin on
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinlowensphd/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robinlowensphd
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robinlowensphd/
Email: Robin@LeadershipPurposePodcast.com
Thank you for listening! Rate, review, & follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. Talk to you soon!
This episode was produced by Lynda, Podcast Manager for GenX Creative Entrepreneurs at https://www.ljscreativeservices.co.nz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin l Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership
(00:47):
Purpose with Doctor. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're
here and take time to listen into the podcast. And because you've been
such a faithful listener of the podcast, we've got ranked in the top
5% of all podcasts globally
according to Listen Notes. So thank you for listening and help us
keep it going. Rate, review, subscribe. I know you
(01:09):
hear those words all the time, but it really makes a difference. So we'd appreciate
that. And give us a positive review, and I'll be sure to
highlight it on social media if you do that. Okay. So now that
we have that out of the way, today, I'm really excited about the
conversation. I am talking with Naima Khan. Now let me tell you a
little bit about Naima. She's a senior consultant and strategist with over
(01:32):
fifteen years of experience in the social sector. She
specializes in helping organizations advance racial
and economic equity, and I already get a sense of her
commitment and passion for this. Her approach is rooted in principles of
abundant, asset thinking, and authenticity.
I want authenticity. And she has a
(01:54):
strong background with teams and leadership, and she's an
expert in strategy. And I can't wait to hear more.
Welcome, 09:00. Thank you, doctor Robin, for having me. I
really appreciate it. Alright. So now you heard me say a little bit, just
read some from your bio. Why don't you tell us in your own words a
little bit more about, first, who you are and then
(02:17):
about what you do? Absolutely. Thank you again. My
name is Naima, and I run a business called Create Good,
which is, based in Minnesota. And I
have been running it for about six years where we focus on advancing
racial economic equity justice work through equity center
strategic planning, facilitation, and evaluation.
(02:39):
And, these are all kind of what what folks would typically
consider management consulting kind of roles. Although now
that I'm, a little,
I guess, just what's the word I'm looking for?
Spoiler alert is that in my trajectory, I've gone from
being being more DEI focused to anti
(03:01):
colonial focused. And so that has put an entirely different lens on
some of the language I use. So I'm really careful now to really
grapple with these terms like management consulting and what does that really mean and what
does that imply for kind of the broader, you know, social order that we
construct here in The United States as well as globally. Right? So anyway,
back to my, you know, kind of what I'm doing now, I I think that
(03:22):
that is an important part of who I am and how I show up in
the world. I love the name Create Good. How'd you come to that
to call your company Create Good? Yeah. You know, honestly, it
was a translation of an Arabic word,
And so is this concept of of good,
but it it's not like something that's colossal or something that
(03:44):
is so out of reach that, you know, like,
daily folks can't do it. You know what I mean? Like,
you know, someone like me, I can attempt to do good and kind of any
situation that I'm in. And so I felt like that was a
really great way to just kind of say that we can create good in the
world, even if it's not as splashy or
(04:06):
transformational as we want it to be recognizing
that, yes, we do want to get to ultimate longer term goals. And we do
want to, you know, seek rigor and all of that yet,
we can do the little that we can, right, in front of us.
And that's ultimately what we have control over. And so I just I just thought
it was a really good nod to, like yeah. I think it's nice to be
(04:28):
able to create good in the world. Right? And initially, I was thinking of calling
it, like, create justice or, you know, boldness or, you know, some of
these, like, more grand kinda sounding titles. But at the end of the day,
something just felt right about being able to say, like, yeah. Let's create good together.
I love that. I love how you came to that that name, create good. I'm
glad that you're doing that work in the world. Alright. So now
(04:51):
tell us more about the actual work, what it looks like,
and, yeah, all about that. Yeah. So create good
was really born in reaction to the patterns
and limitations that I saw within the field of philanthropy. Before I
started my business, I spent a good eight or nine years in,
what we call institutional philanthropy, which in The US is grant making.
(05:13):
So, working for community based funders, as well as an
independent private foundation. And then prior to that, I was
my background is in public policy. And so I did a lot of, study of,
like, political science as well as English and did a lot of internship
roles and kind of, more minor roles or, I guess, entry level roles at
different nonprofit organizations and actually ended up
(05:36):
as a grant writer, which is kind of on the receiving end of the
grants, right, that I I was just talking about. So then
fast forward to 2011 when I moved to Minnesota, in the
Minneapolis Saint Paul area, that's when I really had my foray
into the field of philanthropy and saw what it was like
to operate from within grant making organizations.
(05:59):
So that was a really interesting kind of look and
really had a a trajectory around, you
know, just my own philosophy and and thinking
around how we think about nonprofit work, how we think about
social good work in general. Right? All of that really coming to
some critical analysis through these different experiences. And
(06:21):
so ultimately decided if I want to have the type of
results that I wanna see bring brought about by by
my work, I needed to kind of, you know, go
solo in a way. Right? I needed to even though even though I collaborate,
deeply with with many coconspirator, coconsultants,
and, you know, all that. But I did see the need at some
(06:43):
point in my trajectory to say, okay, this space is no
longer serving me in the ways that I need to be showing up.
And so what does it look like for me to actually build something
that does allow me to show up and how I need to be showing up
right now? And so that you say that, like, it was just so easy, and
I'm imagining it wasn't just so easy like that. So
(07:05):
but was there something like and because that's a big that's like
it takes some courage and some real, you know,
strength to say, I'm gonna go out on my own. Did you have
any other, like, inklings or thoughts before that
or years before? Like, one day, I'm gonna have this business, or do did you
have any of that, or was it Brandon? Yes. And thank you for naming
(07:27):
that, doctor Robin. Yes. It was challenging all through and through. I mean,
when I say it, it sounds all nice and simple, but it was certainly,
anything but in terms of the actual transition itself. I mean,
honestly, I did have an inkling for quite a few years. I just had it
in the back of my heart that, you know, oh, I could be doing
something. And and I didn't know exactly what form it would take, so it
(07:50):
wasn't abundantly clear in my head, right, like it is now.
But I think that at that moment, I was just kind of like I
felt the need to say, you know, oh, I can really bring a useful perspective
in this way. Right? And maybe I can work with organizations independently,
and maybe I could, you know, help them achieve the goals that they that they
want to achieve in a more rigorous, authentic way.
(08:12):
I mean, I would attend, like, conferences and then find myself at, like, the
breakout on consultancy or, like, starting your your own
consultancy or, like, business planning one zero one. Right? So I'd be, like,
naturally gravitating toward these things even while I had a full time
role at a philanthropy. And so I guess I was just
kind of, you know, in the back of my mind still kind of dabbling with
(08:33):
it. But I will say, despite having,
you know, some level of comfort and economic privilege, right through
which I could I could actually make the leap, I mean, it was a
very scary leap, right? Going from a
stable, consistent income, going from a place like
philanthropy, where frankly, you have power in the community, you
(08:55):
are seen as a as a power broker in many ways. Many would
argue you're a gatekeeper. Right? That's another
we can talk about that later. But so from that perspective, it
was a really big leap to say, okay. You know, I I
had a little bit of a tested audience for my services, but
there was no, like, established client base. I didn't know
(09:17):
that, you know, contracts would materialize for me down the line.
And so it was really a a leap of faith in many ways
in order to start consulting. But I think the point that I was at
was I had so much emotional burnout in a
way because of the values misalignment that I felt in the place that I was
in that moment where it was just worth it to me.
(09:39):
Right? Like, at the end of the day, I felt like I can't continue
really doing what I was doing in an
authentic way as myself and really showing up as myself. And it was kinda
wearing on me every day to try and smile past it or just, like,
do it just because it was what was expected of me in my role.
And so I was like, you know, this just doesn't sit right, and
(10:01):
it doesn't feel right aligned to my values. And so I was
like, to me, this is actually just worth it. And and I was
at a point where I was like, I don't really care about the concept. Like,
and again, I had that that economic privilege, right, that luxury
to be able to say like, Okay, this is not gonna like break the bank,
we're not gonna like not have bread on the table or roof overhead. So I
(10:22):
completely get that that was a big ability
that that drove me to be able to do that. But I also didn't go
about it brashly. I didn't just pick up one day and was like, Oh, I'm
gonna quit the next day and start my business. Like I actually
asked my employer to reduce my time a little
bit. So, then I started working at 80%
(10:43):
time. And one day out of the week, I would like go fish for
clients, you know, go go, like, sell my services, things like
that. And and just really kind of think about, right, like, what it is that
I want to offer into the world to even begin to create, like, a package
of services for people. I say fish for clients, but that was actually really
opposite of what I was doing. But, like, I just happened to be
(11:05):
speaking at a TEDx where one of the fellow speakers with
me that night ended up meeting me backstage, after
after the, you know, series of talks was done. And we just
really kind of hit it off. And she ended up being the executive director of
the small arts based organization out in the area where I previously
lived. And so she and I just really connected. And she was
(11:27):
like, hey, I think you can really help us, you know, we need to develop
a logic model and an evaluation framework for how we're, you know,
assessing the work that we're doing with students. And so I was just like, okay,
let's, you know, it sounds simple enough. Let's do it.
So and I I had led, evaluation work
internally in my previous role. So I wasn't, you know, coming at it from,
(11:50):
like, a very, blind spot in a way. But I, you know,
so I helped them and, and it was actually just so much fun. I
mean, I learned, as always, I learned along with my clients, which
is so enriching for me and so beneficial. I feel like I
almost selfishly get more out of our
relationships, sometimes, but obviously, they they get the
(12:12):
deliverables too. But yeah, so I think it's a,
it's a very, like, rewarding it was it was such a rewarding
experience that I felt like, okay, this is the seems like the right path to
keep kind of forging and keep trying to push and, you know,
develop those relationships and, you know, pursue that
networking that will help me get ideal clients. Yeah.
(12:34):
She identified you. She knew, based on your speech,
she knew that you could help. So that's wonderful. Now was that during
your eighty twenty time? You know what I mean by was that during that
time? That was during that time. Yes. So then Interesting.
Yeah. And, really, I mean, the stars aligned and and we're
both, you know, so, like, I mean, I I spiritually
(12:56):
inclined, I guess I should say so. I, certainly believe that it was
divine plan. Right? That this kind of came to fruition at this
time. And I was like, oh my goodness. Like, if I hadn't made the shift,
I wouldn't have been able to say yes to working with a person who is
clearly so interested in working with me. And so I was just really,
again, just grateful that, you know, I was able to kind of make
(13:18):
that little leap. And so it's not a big leap. I guess that's the key
takeaway that I want folks to hear is that it's almost like a calculated
leap in smaller iterations until you can build yourself up to like
the full leap. So. Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that in a way.
I, I too, like you, I'm spiritually inclined, and I do do believe
that was a divine intervention. Because once you set the intention and
(13:40):
then, you know, the the way opens, so to speak. Alright. So
now let's go back before you established this sort of 8020
schedule. You were saying it was getting to a point where you knew it was
no longer in aligned with who you were. What are
some symptoms if you could remember? Or, like, what did that look like
in case there's somebody who they're having that now, they
(14:02):
might recognize themselves. Yeah. That's tough. It
almost opens up some emotion. Yeah. I was gonna say, you know, when
I when I and you don't have to answer. When I when it came out,
I was like, oh, I don't know if that's gonna be, too touchy
to go back to that feeling. But if you can go ahead, if you
ran or not, we can keep going. Yeah. No. That that's alright. Yeah. And I
(14:24):
think I can offer some, like, really cursory kinda observations if I think
back about myself then. And, again, they might not be totally, you know, accurate
because it's, like, quite a few years removed now. But just from
what I reflect on or I guess what I recall, I just remember having this
overwhelming sense of, like, surrealness in in a
way. Like, I would show up and I would do the work, and it's like
(14:45):
I could observe myself kind of going through the motions of doing the work.
But I knew that there was something else that I needed to
be doing that I couldn't do quite. And and and I couldn't
quite name it at that time. Right. So that was also a journey of discovery
of like, what is that thing? What is
calling that I was feeling, you know, all of that. And and I feel like,
(15:07):
really, it's it's an ever evolving path, as you know. Right? It's it's not like
you ever arrive at an answer. But at that time, it was just
something I didn't even have the language to really kind of articulate,
right? Because I was just so in it. I was like, in the hamster
wheel. I was I was producing, I was doing the things. And I
just, I guess this is what burnout feels like is like, you
(15:28):
just have this overwhelming sense of, okay, I'm doing all the things, but no
matter what I do, it doesn't ever feel really fully done.
You're you're stressed out that it's not really at the
caliber or the quality of results that you wanna create.
Always perhaps feeling like, there's a little bit more yet to be desired from
your work. And the folks that you're working with may be really kind
(15:52):
of hampering down your ability to, like, fully express, right, or, like,
fully kind of demonstrate what you can bring to the table. You know,
those were some of the things that I was kind of grappling with in that
time period. And so I just feel like reflecting back on it, it
just felt like the necessary thing to do almost. You know, it was
to be like, you know, I'm not fully feeling appreciated. I'm
(16:14):
not fully feeling like my my skills are being brought to bear as much as
they could, you know, in this context and situation. And
so why not just try and and see what I
could, you know, drive change for from my own
perspective. Right? Yeah. Thank you for sharing that even though, you know, it was
back then and it was, you know, not the the most pleasant time. So thank
(16:36):
you for sharing that. Now just one or two more questions on this, and then
I can move forward. Alright. So during the time when you did the the the
split, the 8020 split, did you
have a way of sort of making it work for
your schedule? I mean, just the fact that you said 8020, that's sort of like
a strategy. But I'm thinking about people who are might be doing both
(16:58):
still in a job and doing a business. Is there
anything you learned about how to do both, if we wanna call it balancing?
I don't know that balance is really achievable, but you use that word.
So So when you're juggling or balancing both, was there, something that helped
you? You know, I appreciate that question. I think it depends so much on the
person. I suspect that we all have different learning and processing styles. And so
(17:20):
for me, it was very difficult to feel like I could give my all to
two very separate things. And part of my issue was
that what I was setting out to create was very much in reaction to what
I was already experiencing. Right. And so I had to kind of figure
out how to create that distance in order to fully
kinda see what I needed to do. So that was part of the
(17:42):
issue for me. And part of it was just the the demands in
typical corporate environments, which, you know, most independent private
philanthropic organizations are pretty corporate, in nature depend
again, depending on the organization. You don't
have, like, the luxury of time or space, really. Right? Like, you're
just doing what your key deliverables are, you need to, you
(18:04):
know, meet your performance targets, and you need to make sure
you're on top and that in and of itself, just being in that wheel
or that churn of kind of capitalist production, right? Like that, to
me is, is very much time suck. It's an energy suck. And
because you're managing all of these things that are not really meeting
your purpose, it's also kind of like an emotional suck,
(18:27):
right? Because it really drains you, again,
from that space of being kind of spiritually misaligned with with what's
going on. Right? And and that takes just a lot from people.
I think it I think it takes more from us than we fully recognize.
And so being in that space wasn't really conducive for me
to long term, at least, build something sustainable. Now, you
(18:50):
know, I get it. Some folks need to hustle. Right? Like, folks
need to make it work balancing multiple things and priorities.
And sometimes that is, you know, just what is needed
and what what has to be done. And I would say if
folks have the ability to take more
of that space for themselves, even if it's just to recognize
(19:12):
what each thing is like bringing you or, like,
fully flesh out what spiritual needs are being met through
each thing for yourself and articulate that. Right? Like, I think that could in and
of itself could be a very powerful exercise and maybe just helps you
understand if you if you do need to realign or create another
type of balance, you know, shift the balance if you as it
(19:35):
were. Yeah. Yeah. That's very that's very helpful.
Alright. So now, let's go back to this. You said you were
kinda drawn to this philanthropic work. Now
what about little Naima? Go way
back to little Naima. Do you see any expression
of her that could connect now to this
(19:58):
philanthropic work? You see any connections?
Yes. I do. And my brothers and sisters will tell
you. Yeah. I mean, my my siblings
sometimes poke fun at me for, like, caring too much or, like, you know,
just being that child that was, like, caring about random thing or, like,
things that didn't really make sense. And I don't know. To me, I was just
(20:20):
kind of like, well, at least I was thinking about, like, vulnerable
animals or, you know, whatever. Right? Like, just things in in my child
mind that were, like, vulnerable or didn't have didn't have people to care
for them. Right? Or or people that didn't have other people to care for them.
And so I guess, like, reflecting back on that, like, those are some of my
earliest memories of having some level of cognizance of like,
(20:43):
oh, like, what about people that don't have family members that
they can count on? Or what about people that don't have something or
another? And so so I I do think I did have something of
that early consciousness. I can't, like, pinpoint a direct
through thread of how it, like, flowed all the way through. I think, frankly, our
schooling system does a really great job of miseducating us and
(21:05):
misaligning our own intentions and and purposes.
Frankly, that's a whole other topic. But, so so just going
through all of those motions of going through the education system and,
you know, getting to a point where it's like, okay, now what do I what
do I really wanna do with my life? And what, you know, what do I
what I see for that? I don't think, you know, I think it was just
(21:25):
really doing most of mostly what I was seeing around
me, which is such a natural thing to do until I was able
to kind of exercise that independent thinking and critical
analysis faculty a lot more to my benefit. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, I think that's wonderful because I see it. You're talking about you
cared about those as a little one you cared about. You just had compassion
(21:48):
and care for others in essence, and that's what you have
now, compassion and care for others. Just take different forms and
shapes of expression. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, it's funny that when we have these memories,
our our siblings, the thing that they point out typically
is they're really getting at who we are, right, and what makes us
(22:10):
authentically who we are. So Yes. Good for you. Thank you for sharing
that. Alright. So now in your work now, do you feel like you have a
sense of purpose now that you're doing it, you have create good? Yes. Very
much so. I think what was missing was some type of
was fusing, like, the spiritual framework that I, believe in
with the actual work that is being done. And so with the
(22:31):
business, I feel like it allows me that flexibility and that creativity
to, like, fuse those, right, and figure out how it actually more
seamlessly kind of merges. And and so I feel
like I'm more fully living out my purpose through my
work because it's something that I was able to build as a
as a demonstration of kind of my values. Right? And so
(22:54):
that feels a lot more agency filled and,
authentic. You know what I mean? Rather than, I guess, being under someone
else's, you know, mission or vision. And and, and and
and as good as that work can be, I think particularly if you really
find some a place that's super aligned with, you know, how you
personally operate and what you value and and all that, that no no shade to
(23:16):
those who are who are who are doing that work. But I think for me,
I just needed something kind of radically different. And so in
order to build that, I had to go outside of what I was seeing and
finding. Yeah. Yeah. And do you think it's important for you and
or others to have that sense of purpose in your work?
Yes. Absolutely. I think it's what makes us
(23:38):
sustainable in our work, and and it really kinda helped me
redefine work a little bit. You know? I again, I feel
like because of the kind of rampant, you know,
capitalist kind of culture and production systems that we're we're trapped
within, right, or that we we kind of find ourselves often reacting to,
I think that it's easy to get kind of
(24:00):
caught up in what's expected or what the, you
know, what kind of the trajectory that people
have created, you know, is and that needs to be met.
And I think that's by design. And and I think that when
folks kind of are able to lift their head up and say, okay, if this
doesn't feel right and that and that's not to say everybody feels misaligned. Right? Because
(24:21):
clearly some people don't. And and and that's great when you can find that
alignment in in what you do kind of naturally. But for those who
can't, right, I think when people lift their heads up and and are like,
okay, well, what are the types of possibilities? I don't think
society affords us again, like, in a space of creativity early
on to really think outside the box. Right? You're you're told, like, you know, you
(24:43):
take those career tests in middle school, and then I think mine
was like I scored high for, like, a counselor or something like
that, which I was like, okay. Like, you know, counselor consultant. Yeah.
Kind of. I could see a little bit of a through thread there. But,
yeah, I mean, I do think that, you know, there are there are certain
boxes that society wants to put folks into. And I think
(25:06):
that in order for folks to think differently, I think, being
an entrepreneur really provides a great space, again, just to
exercise that level of, you know, self initiation, self
kind of driven creativity in the way that you want
to. Yes. I I agree. I agree with that wholeheartedly.
And I'm guessing there are people who listening now might be in that
(25:28):
place of looking for something that is more meaningful for them, which
is really the point of the podcast. And I say it's for high achieving
women who are, they're at that place where
they feel like, they're not in alignment. You know? There's something
missing, and they want more meaning and purpose and
fulfillment and to express it through their work. Work is not the only
(25:50):
way to express it, but the podcast focuses on that
particular expression. So with that woman in mind,
what's something you can share from either your personal experience or your professional
journey that might be just a tip to help her
or a word of encouragement or if I however you wanna couch it,
something to speak to her that, you know, might help her as
(26:13):
she's listening right now? I would say take care of your spiritual
self first. Really ground yourself in what anchors you
from your principles, whether it's tied to a
specific spiritual practice or not, whether it's informed by
a community or or not. I mean, obviously, I I have
thoughts on on, you know, how that ought to work.
(26:35):
But I think what wherever you're able to find
and kind of tap into that spiritual base and keep it well and keep
your heart well. And I'm not just talking about, like, the the physical
exercise of the heart, which is also very important, clearly, but
just the emotional state of the heart, like a peaceful heart. Being
able to tend to creating that peaceful heart is gonna be really central to
(26:57):
doing work that is sustainable. And and I was just going down that path. So
I appreciate your your nudge there. But work isn't just about, like, what
we produce at the end of the day, right? It's it's a state or an
experience that we want to produce for ourselves and those around us.
Right? And so I think that really kind of getting clear on the
results that we wanna see through our work. And, you know, even,
(27:19):
again, even if it's not like the grand plan or, like, some grand
transformation. Right? Like, reach for the little little good that's in front of you. Right?
And, like, what can what can we do? Because each of us can do something.
And so and we know that. Right? I think it's just a matter of getting
into those conversations where we're able to really articulate that
kind of build off of one another's energy and, you know, inspire one
(27:41):
another to to take that leap. Yes.
Yes. I'm imagining that's inspiring somebody right now.
And before we tell people, where they can get a chunk of you,
you've been very gracious with your time and generous. Is there anything that
I didn't get a chance to ask you that you might wanna share that
anything else pop in your mind? You don't have to, but I just like to
(28:03):
leave it open in case there was something that wait. There's one more thing before
we go. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I
think I I talk a lot about principles led work. And I think it's
one thing to claim that, and I think it's a whole other thing to try
and practice that. Right? And so I I guess one other thing that
I'd like to share is just my own reflections on, even if you
(28:25):
are aspirational and and leading with your principles, just putting in the
effort, like, putting in the work and being imperfect and learning the
lessons through the falls and the mistakes. Right? Like, that
that is the work. That is the journey. Right? And so, like, just,
I guess, being able to hold some grace with ourselves even when we
take this approach to our work is a really important thing to to
(28:46):
hold. Well, I'm glad I didn't let that go. I'm glad I'm
glad I opened up space so you could share that. Alright. So I imagine
people might be asking, well, how can I hear more? And if they wanna be
in touch with you, how can they connect with you? Yeah. Absolutely. I'm,
more than happy to share my email address,
naima@creategood.biz. So that's create good dot b
(29:07):
I z. And, my first name is spelled n
a a I m a, and I'm more than happy to connect with
anybody, there via LinkedIn. Yeah. Thank you
so much for having me, doctor Robin. This is such a pleasure. It was a
joy to have you. So are you at Create Good on LinkedIn also?
Yes. You can also find the business page on LinkedIn. Correct. Okay. And your
(29:29):
website is creategood.com? It's
creategood,uh,.space, actually.
Interesting domain name things. Yes.
Okay. I just wanna put that out there in case people are have different ways
to to reach you. Alright. As we talked about
before we started the conversation, this has been absolutely
(29:49):
wonderful. So thank you for taking time out of your day and sharing your
with us today. I really appreciate the space that you and time that you
took, doctor Robin. So I I really appreciate that. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Okay, everyone. I'm so glad that you had this opportunity
to share in this conversation, and I'd love to hear your response to it.
And you can find me on LinkedIn. I mean, I'm on all the social media
(30:13):
channels, but I spend most of my time on LinkedIn.
And each one, it's at Robin l Owens PhD
at Robin l Owens PhD. I'd love to hear your response
to the episode. And follow me there. Follow me on LinkedIn. I have lots of
new things coming up, and I want you to be the first to know about
that. And until next time, this is
(30:33):
Dr. Robin. Thank you for tuning into this episode of
the Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast.
If you enjoyed it, head on over and rate and
subscribe so you never miss an episode. New episodes
drop every week, and I can't wait to hang out with you
again soon. Meanwhile, this
(30:55):
is Dr. Robin signing off. See you next
time.
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin l Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership
(00:47):
Purpose with Doctor. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're
here and take time to listen into the podcast. And because you've been
such a faithful listener of the podcast, we've got ranked in the top
5% of all podcasts globally
according to Listen Notes. So thank you for listening and help us
keep it going. Rate, review, subscribe. I know you
(01:09):
hear those words all the time, but it really makes a difference. So we'd appreciate
that. And give us a positive review, and I'll be sure to
highlight it on social media if you do that. Okay. So now that
we have that out of the way, today, I'm really excited about the
conversation. I am talking with Naima Khan. Now let me tell you a
little bit about Naima. She's a senior consultant and strategist with over
(01:32):
fifteen years of experience in the social sector. She
specializes in helping organizations advance racial
and economic equity, and I already get a sense of her
commitment and passion for this. Her approach is rooted in principles of
abundant, asset thinking, and authenticity.
I want authenticity. And she has a
(01:54):
strong background with teams and leadership, and she's an
expert in strategy. And I can't wait to hear more.
Welcome, 09:00. Thank you, doctor Robin, for having me. I
really appreciate it. Alright. So now you heard me say a little bit, just
read some from your bio. Why don't you tell us in your own words a
little bit more about, first, who you are and then
(02:17):
about what you do? Absolutely. Thank you again. My
name is Naima, and I run a business called Create Good,
which is, based in Minnesota. And I
have been running it for about six years where we focus on advancing
racial economic equity justice work through equity center
strategic planning, facilitation, and evaluation.
(02:39):
And, these are all kind of what what folks would typically
consider management consulting kind of roles. Although now
that I'm, a little,
I guess, just what's the word I'm looking for?
Spoiler alert is that in my trajectory, I've gone from
being being more DEI focused to anti
(03:01):
colonial focused. And so that has put an entirely different lens on
some of the language I use. So I'm really careful now to really
grapple with these terms like management consulting and what does that really mean and what
does that imply for kind of the broader, you know, social order that we
construct here in The United States as well as globally. Right? So anyway,
back to my, you know, kind of what I'm doing now, I I think that
(03:22):
that is an important part of who I am and how I show up in
the world. I love the name Create Good. How'd you come to that
to call your company Create Good? Yeah. You know, honestly, it
was a translation of an Arabic word,
And so is this concept of of good,
but it it's not like something that's colossal or something that
(03:44):
is so out of reach that, you know, like,
daily folks can't do it. You know what I mean? Like,
you know, someone like me, I can attempt to do good and kind of any
situation that I'm in. And so I felt like that was a
really great way to just kind of say that we can create good in the
world, even if it's not as splashy or
(04:06):
transformational as we want it to be recognizing
that, yes, we do want to get to ultimate longer term goals. And we do
want to, you know, seek rigor and all of that yet,
we can do the little that we can, right, in front of us.
And that's ultimately what we have control over. And so I just I just thought
it was a really good nod to, like yeah. I think it's nice to be
(04:28):
able to create good in the world. Right? And initially, I was thinking of calling
it, like, create justice or, you know, boldness or, you know, some of
these, like, more grand kinda sounding titles. But at the end of the day,
something just felt right about being able to say, like, yeah. Let's create good together.
I love that. I love how you came to that that name, create good. I'm
glad that you're doing that work in the world. Alright. So now
(04:51):
tell us more about the actual work, what it looks like,
and, yeah, all about that. Yeah. So create good
was really born in reaction to the patterns
and limitations that I saw within the field of philanthropy. Before I
started my business, I spent a good eight or nine years in,
what we call institutional philanthropy, which in The US is grant making.
(05:13):
So, working for community based funders, as well as an
independent private foundation. And then prior to that, I was
my background is in public policy. And so I did a lot of, study of,
like, political science as well as English and did a lot of internship
roles and kind of, more minor roles or, I guess, entry level roles at
different nonprofit organizations and actually ended up
(05:36):
as a grant writer, which is kind of on the receiving end of the
grants, right, that I I was just talking about. So then
fast forward to 2011 when I moved to Minnesota, in the
Minneapolis Saint Paul area, that's when I really had my foray
into the field of philanthropy and saw what it was like
to operate from within grant making organizations.
(05:59):
So that was a really interesting kind of look and
really had a a trajectory around, you
know, just my own philosophy and and thinking
around how we think about nonprofit work, how we think about
social good work in general. Right? All of that really coming to
some critical analysis through these different experiences. And
(06:21):
so ultimately decided if I want to have the type of
results that I wanna see bring brought about by by
my work, I needed to kind of, you know, go
solo in a way. Right? I needed to even though even though I collaborate,
deeply with with many coconspirator, coconsultants,
and, you know, all that. But I did see the need at some
(06:43):
point in my trajectory to say, okay, this space is no
longer serving me in the ways that I need to be showing up.
And so what does it look like for me to actually build something
that does allow me to show up and how I need to be showing up
right now? And so that you say that, like, it was just so easy, and
I'm imagining it wasn't just so easy like that. So
(07:05):
but was there something like and because that's a big that's like
it takes some courage and some real, you know,
strength to say, I'm gonna go out on my own. Did you have
any other, like, inklings or thoughts before that
or years before? Like, one day, I'm gonna have this business, or do did you
have any of that, or was it Brandon? Yes. And thank you for naming
(07:27):
that, doctor Robin. Yes. It was challenging all through and through. I mean,
when I say it, it sounds all nice and simple, but it was certainly,
anything but in terms of the actual transition itself. I mean,
honestly, I did have an inkling for quite a few years. I just had it
in the back of my heart that, you know, oh, I could be doing
something. And and I didn't know exactly what form it would take, so it
(07:50):
wasn't abundantly clear in my head, right, like it is now.
But I think that at that moment, I was just kind of like I
felt the need to say, you know, oh, I can really bring a useful perspective
in this way. Right? And maybe I can work with organizations independently,
and maybe I could, you know, help them achieve the goals that they that they
want to achieve in a more rigorous, authentic way.
(08:12):
I mean, I would attend, like, conferences and then find myself at, like, the
breakout on consultancy or, like, starting your your own
consultancy or, like, business planning one zero one. Right? So I'd be, like,
naturally gravitating toward these things even while I had a full time
role at a philanthropy. And so I guess I was just
kind of, you know, in the back of my mind still kind of dabbling with
(08:33):
it. But I will say, despite having,
you know, some level of comfort and economic privilege, right through
which I could I could actually make the leap, I mean, it was a
very scary leap, right? Going from a
stable, consistent income, going from a place like
philanthropy, where frankly, you have power in the community, you
(08:55):
are seen as a as a power broker in many ways. Many would
argue you're a gatekeeper. Right? That's another
we can talk about that later. But so from that perspective, it
was a really big leap to say, okay. You know, I I
had a little bit of a tested audience for my services, but
there was no, like, established client base. I didn't know
(09:17):
that, you know, contracts would materialize for me down the line.
And so it was really a a leap of faith in many ways
in order to start consulting. But I think the point that I was at
was I had so much emotional burnout in a
way because of the values misalignment that I felt in the place that I was
in that moment where it was just worth it to me.
(09:39):
Right? Like, at the end of the day, I felt like I can't continue
really doing what I was doing in an
authentic way as myself and really showing up as myself. And it was kinda
wearing on me every day to try and smile past it or just, like,
do it just because it was what was expected of me in my role.
And so I was like, you know, this just doesn't sit right, and
(10:01):
it doesn't feel right aligned to my values. And so I was
like, to me, this is actually just worth it. And and I was
at a point where I was like, I don't really care about the concept. Like,
and again, I had that that economic privilege, right, that luxury
to be able to say like, Okay, this is not gonna like break the bank,
we're not gonna like not have bread on the table or roof overhead. So I
(10:22):
completely get that that was a big ability
that that drove me to be able to do that. But I also didn't go
about it brashly. I didn't just pick up one day and was like, Oh, I'm
gonna quit the next day and start my business. Like I actually
asked my employer to reduce my time a little
bit. So, then I started working at 80%
(10:43):
time. And one day out of the week, I would like go fish for
clients, you know, go go, like, sell my services, things like
that. And and just really kind of think about, right, like, what it is that
I want to offer into the world to even begin to create, like, a package
of services for people. I say fish for clients, but that was actually really
opposite of what I was doing. But, like, I just happened to be
(11:05):
speaking at a TEDx where one of the fellow speakers with
me that night ended up meeting me backstage, after
after the, you know, series of talks was done. And we just
really kind of hit it off. And she ended up being the executive director of
the small arts based organization out in the area where I previously
lived. And so she and I just really connected. And she was
(11:27):
like, hey, I think you can really help us, you know, we need to develop
a logic model and an evaluation framework for how we're, you know,
assessing the work that we're doing with students. And so I was just like, okay,
let's, you know, it sounds simple enough. Let's do it.
So and I I had led, evaluation work
internally in my previous role. So I wasn't, you know, coming at it from,
(11:50):
like, a very, blind spot in a way. But I, you know,
so I helped them and, and it was actually just so much fun. I
mean, I learned, as always, I learned along with my clients, which
is so enriching for me and so beneficial. I feel like I
almost selfishly get more out of our
relationships, sometimes, but obviously, they they get the
(12:12):
deliverables too. But yeah, so I think it's a,
it's a very, like, rewarding it was it was such a rewarding
experience that I felt like, okay, this is the seems like the right path to
keep kind of forging and keep trying to push and, you know,
develop those relationships and, you know, pursue that
networking that will help me get ideal clients. Yeah.
(12:34):
She identified you. She knew, based on your speech,
she knew that you could help. So that's wonderful. Now was that during
your eighty twenty time? You know what I mean by was that during that
time? That was during that time. Yes. So then Interesting.
Yeah. And, really, I mean, the stars aligned and and we're
both, you know, so, like, I mean, I I spiritually
(12:56):
inclined, I guess I should say so. I, certainly believe that it was
divine plan. Right? That this kind of came to fruition at this
time. And I was like, oh my goodness. Like, if I hadn't made the shift,
I wouldn't have been able to say yes to working with a person who is
clearly so interested in working with me. And so I was just really,
again, just grateful that, you know, I was able to kind of make
(13:18):
that little leap. And so it's not a big leap. I guess that's the key
takeaway that I want folks to hear is that it's almost like a calculated
leap in smaller iterations until you can build yourself up to like
the full leap. So. Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that in a way.
I, I too, like you, I'm spiritually inclined, and I do do believe
that was a divine intervention. Because once you set the intention and
(13:40):
then, you know, the the way opens, so to speak. Alright. So
now let's go back before you established this sort of 8020
schedule. You were saying it was getting to a point where you knew it was
no longer in aligned with who you were. What are
some symptoms if you could remember? Or, like, what did that look like
in case there's somebody who they're having that now, they
(14:02):
might recognize themselves. Yeah. That's tough. It
almost opens up some emotion. Yeah. I was gonna say, you know, when
I when I and you don't have to answer. When I when it came out,
I was like, oh, I don't know if that's gonna be, too touchy
to go back to that feeling. But if you can go ahead, if you
ran or not, we can keep going. Yeah. No. That that's alright. Yeah. And I
(14:24):
think I can offer some, like, really cursory kinda observations if I think
back about myself then. And, again, they might not be totally, you know, accurate
because it's, like, quite a few years removed now. But just from
what I reflect on or I guess what I recall, I just remember having this
overwhelming sense of, like, surrealness in in a
way. Like, I would show up and I would do the work, and it's like
(14:45):
I could observe myself kind of going through the motions of doing the work.
But I knew that there was something else that I needed to
be doing that I couldn't do quite. And and and I couldn't
quite name it at that time. Right. So that was also a journey of discovery
of like, what is that thing? What is
calling that I was feeling, you know, all of that. And and I feel like,
(15:07):
really, it's it's an ever evolving path, as you know. Right? It's it's not like
you ever arrive at an answer. But at that time, it was just
something I didn't even have the language to really kind of articulate,
right? Because I was just so in it. I was like, in the hamster
wheel. I was I was producing, I was doing the things. And I
just, I guess this is what burnout feels like is like, you
(15:28):
just have this overwhelming sense of, okay, I'm doing all the things, but no
matter what I do, it doesn't ever feel really fully done.
You're you're stressed out that it's not really at the
caliber or the quality of results that you wanna create.
Always perhaps feeling like, there's a little bit more yet to be desired from
your work. And the folks that you're working with may be really kind
(15:52):
of hampering down your ability to, like, fully express, right, or, like,
fully kind of demonstrate what you can bring to the table. You know,
those were some of the things that I was kind of grappling with in that
time period. And so I just feel like reflecting back on it, it
just felt like the necessary thing to do almost. You know, it was
to be like, you know, I'm not fully feeling appreciated. I'm
(16:14):
not fully feeling like my my skills are being brought to bear as much as
they could, you know, in this context and situation. And
so why not just try and and see what I
could, you know, drive change for from my own
perspective. Right? Yeah. Thank you for sharing that even though, you know, it was
back then and it was, you know, not the the most pleasant time. So thank
(16:36):
you for sharing that. Now just one or two more questions on this, and then
I can move forward. Alright. So during the time when you did the the the
split, the 8020 split, did you
have a way of sort of making it work for
your schedule? I mean, just the fact that you said 8020, that's sort of like
a strategy. But I'm thinking about people who are might be doing both
(16:58):
still in a job and doing a business. Is there
anything you learned about how to do both, if we wanna call it balancing?
I don't know that balance is really achievable, but you use that word.
So So when you're juggling or balancing both, was there, something that helped
you? You know, I appreciate that question. I think it depends so much on the
person. I suspect that we all have different learning and processing styles. And so
(17:20):
for me, it was very difficult to feel like I could give my all to
two very separate things. And part of my issue was
that what I was setting out to create was very much in reaction to what
I was already experiencing. Right. And so I had to kind of figure
out how to create that distance in order to fully
kinda see what I needed to do. So that was part of the
(17:42):
issue for me. And part of it was just the the demands in
typical corporate environments, which, you know, most independent private
philanthropic organizations are pretty corporate, in nature depend
again, depending on the organization. You don't
have, like, the luxury of time or space, really. Right? Like, you're
just doing what your key deliverables are, you need to, you
(18:04):
know, meet your performance targets, and you need to make sure
you're on top and that in and of itself, just being in that wheel
or that churn of kind of capitalist production, right? Like that, to
me is, is very much time suck. It's an energy suck. And
because you're managing all of these things that are not really meeting
your purpose, it's also kind of like an emotional suck,
(18:27):
right? Because it really drains you, again,
from that space of being kind of spiritually misaligned with with what's
going on. Right? And and that takes just a lot from people.
I think it I think it takes more from us than we fully recognize.
And so being in that space wasn't really conducive for me
to long term, at least, build something sustainable. Now, you
(18:50):
know, I get it. Some folks need to hustle. Right? Like, folks
need to make it work balancing multiple things and priorities.
And sometimes that is, you know, just what is needed
and what what has to be done. And I would say if
folks have the ability to take more
of that space for themselves, even if it's just to recognize
(19:12):
what each thing is like bringing you or, like,
fully flesh out what spiritual needs are being met through
each thing for yourself and articulate that. Right? Like, I think that could in and
of itself could be a very powerful exercise and maybe just helps you
understand if you if you do need to realign or create another
type of balance, you know, shift the balance if you as it
(19:35):
were. Yeah. Yeah. That's very that's very helpful.
Alright. So now, let's go back to this. You said you were
kinda drawn to this philanthropic work. Now
what about little Naima? Go way
back to little Naima. Do you see any expression
of her that could connect now to this
(19:58):
philanthropic work? You see any connections?
Yes. I do. And my brothers and sisters will tell
you. Yeah. I mean, my my siblings
sometimes poke fun at me for, like, caring too much or, like, you know,
just being that child that was, like, caring about random thing or, like,
things that didn't really make sense. And I don't know. To me, I was just
(20:20):
kind of like, well, at least I was thinking about, like, vulnerable
animals or, you know, whatever. Right? Like, just things in in my child
mind that were, like, vulnerable or didn't have didn't have people to care
for them. Right? Or or people that didn't have other people to care for them.
And so I guess, like, reflecting back on that, like, those are some of my
earliest memories of having some level of cognizance of like,
(20:43):
oh, like, what about people that don't have family members that
they can count on? Or what about people that don't have something or
another? And so so I I do think I did have something of
that early consciousness. I can't, like, pinpoint a direct
through thread of how it, like, flowed all the way through. I think, frankly, our
schooling system does a really great job of miseducating us and
(21:05):
misaligning our own intentions and and purposes.
Frankly, that's a whole other topic. But, so so just going
through all of those motions of going through the education system and,
you know, getting to a point where it's like, okay, now what do I what
do I really wanna do with my life? And what, you know, what do I
what I see for that? I don't think, you know, I think it was just
(21:25):
really doing most of mostly what I was seeing around
me, which is such a natural thing to do until I was able
to kind of exercise that independent thinking and critical
analysis faculty a lot more to my benefit. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, I think that's wonderful because I see it. You're talking about you
cared about those as a little one you cared about. You just had compassion
(21:48):
and care for others in essence, and that's what you have
now, compassion and care for others. Just take different forms and
shapes of expression. Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, it's funny that when we have these memories,
our our siblings, the thing that they point out typically
is they're really getting at who we are, right, and what makes us
(22:10):
authentically who we are. So Yes. Good for you. Thank you for sharing
that. Alright. So now in your work now, do you feel like you have a
sense of purpose now that you're doing it, you have create good? Yes. Very
much so. I think what was missing was some type of
was fusing, like, the spiritual framework that I, believe in
with the actual work that is being done. And so with the
(22:31):
business, I feel like it allows me that flexibility and that creativity
to, like, fuse those, right, and figure out how it actually more
seamlessly kind of merges. And and so I feel
like I'm more fully living out my purpose through my
work because it's something that I was able to build as a
as a demonstration of kind of my values. Right? And so
(22:54):
that feels a lot more agency filled and,
authentic. You know what I mean? Rather than, I guess, being under someone
else's, you know, mission or vision. And and, and and
and as good as that work can be, I think particularly if you really
find some a place that's super aligned with, you know, how you
personally operate and what you value and and all that, that no no shade to
(23:16):
those who are who are who are doing that work. But I think for me,
I just needed something kind of radically different. And so in
order to build that, I had to go outside of what I was seeing and
finding. Yeah. Yeah. And do you think it's important for you and
or others to have that sense of purpose in your work?
Yes. Absolutely. I think it's what makes us
(23:38):
sustainable in our work, and and it really kinda helped me
redefine work a little bit. You know? I again, I feel
like because of the kind of rampant, you know,
capitalist kind of culture and production systems that we're we're trapped
within, right, or that we we kind of find ourselves often reacting to,
I think that it's easy to get kind of
(24:00):
caught up in what's expected or what the, you
know, what kind of the trajectory that people
have created, you know, is and that needs to be met.
And I think that's by design. And and I think that when
folks kind of are able to lift their head up and say, okay, if this
doesn't feel right and that and that's not to say everybody feels misaligned. Right? Because
(24:21):
clearly some people don't. And and and that's great when you can find that
alignment in in what you do kind of naturally. But for those who
can't, right, I think when people lift their heads up and and are like,
okay, well, what are the types of possibilities? I don't think
society affords us again, like, in a space of creativity early
on to really think outside the box. Right? You're you're told, like, you know, you
(24:43):
take those career tests in middle school, and then I think mine
was like I scored high for, like, a counselor or something like
that, which I was like, okay. Like, you know, counselor consultant. Yeah.
Kind of. I could see a little bit of a through thread there. But,
yeah, I mean, I do think that, you know, there are there are certain
boxes that society wants to put folks into. And I think
(25:06):
that in order for folks to think differently, I think, being
an entrepreneur really provides a great space, again, just to
exercise that level of, you know, self initiation, self
kind of driven creativity in the way that you want
to. Yes. I I agree. I agree with that wholeheartedly.
And I'm guessing there are people who listening now might be in that
(25:28):
place of looking for something that is more meaningful for them, which
is really the point of the podcast. And I say it's for high achieving
women who are, they're at that place where
they feel like, they're not in alignment. You know? There's something
missing, and they want more meaning and purpose and
fulfillment and to express it through their work. Work is not the only
(25:50):
way to express it, but the podcast focuses on that
particular expression. So with that woman in mind,
what's something you can share from either your personal experience or your professional
journey that might be just a tip to help her
or a word of encouragement or if I however you wanna couch it,
something to speak to her that, you know, might help her as
(26:13):
she's listening right now? I would say take care of your spiritual
self first. Really ground yourself in what anchors you
from your principles, whether it's tied to a
specific spiritual practice or not, whether it's informed by
a community or or not. I mean, obviously, I I have
thoughts on on, you know, how that ought to work.
(26:35):
But I think what wherever you're able to find
and kind of tap into that spiritual base and keep it well and keep
your heart well. And I'm not just talking about, like, the the physical
exercise of the heart, which is also very important, clearly, but
just the emotional state of the heart, like a peaceful heart. Being
able to tend to creating that peaceful heart is gonna be really central to
(26:57):
doing work that is sustainable. And and I was just going down that path. So
I appreciate your your nudge there. But work isn't just about, like, what
we produce at the end of the day, right? It's it's a state or an
experience that we want to produce for ourselves and those around us.
Right? And so I think that really kind of getting clear on the
results that we wanna see through our work. And, you know, even,
(27:19):
again, even if it's not like the grand plan or, like, some grand
transformation. Right? Like, reach for the little little good that's in front of you. Right?
And, like, what can what can we do? Because each of us can do something.
And so and we know that. Right? I think it's just a matter of getting
into those conversations where we're able to really articulate that
kind of build off of one another's energy and, you know, inspire one
(27:41):
another to to take that leap. Yes.
Yes. I'm imagining that's inspiring somebody right now.
And before we tell people, where they can get a chunk of you,
you've been very gracious with your time and generous. Is there anything that
I didn't get a chance to ask you that you might wanna share that
anything else pop in your mind? You don't have to, but I just like to
(28:03):
leave it open in case there was something that wait. There's one more thing before
we go. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I I
think I I talk a lot about principles led work. And I think it's
one thing to claim that, and I think it's a whole other thing to try
and practice that. Right? And so I I guess one other thing that
I'd like to share is just my own reflections on, even if you
(28:25):
are aspirational and and leading with your principles, just putting in the
effort, like, putting in the work and being imperfect and learning the
lessons through the falls and the mistakes. Right? Like, that
that is the work. That is the journey. Right? And so, like, just,
I guess, being able to hold some grace with ourselves even when we
take this approach to our work is a really important thing to to
(28:46):
hold. Well, I'm glad I didn't let that go. I'm glad I'm
glad I opened up space so you could share that. Alright. So I imagine
people might be asking, well, how can I hear more? And if they wanna be
in touch with you, how can they connect with you? Yeah. Absolutely. I'm,
more than happy to share my email address,
naima@creategood.biz. So that's create good dot b
(29:07):
I z. And, my first name is spelled n
a a I m a, and I'm more than happy to connect with
anybody, there via LinkedIn. Yeah. Thank you
so much for having me, doctor Robin. This is such a pleasure. It was a
joy to have you. So are you at Create Good on LinkedIn also?
Yes. You can also find the business page on LinkedIn. Correct. Okay. And your
(29:29):
website is creategood.com? It's
creategood,uh,.space, actually.
Interesting domain name things. Yes.
Okay. I just wanna put that out there in case people are have different ways
to to reach you. Alright. As we talked about
before we started the conversation, this has been absolutely
(29:49):
wonderful. So thank you for taking time out of your day and sharing your
with us today. I really appreciate the space that you and time that you
took, doctor Robin. So I I really appreciate that. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Okay, everyone. I'm so glad that you had this opportunity
to share in this conversation, and I'd love to hear your response to it.
And you can find me on LinkedIn. I mean, I'm on all the social media
(30:13):
channels, but I spend most of my time on LinkedIn.
And each one, it's at Robin l Owens PhD
at Robin l Owens PhD. I'd love to hear your response
to the episode. And follow me there. Follow me on LinkedIn. I have lots of
new things coming up, and I want you to be the first to know about
that. And until next time, this is
(30:33):
Dr. Robin. Thank you for tuning into this episode of
the Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast.
If you enjoyed it, head on over and rate and
subscribe so you never miss an episode. New episodes
drop every week, and I can't wait to hang out with you
again soon. Meanwhile, this
(30:55):
is Dr. Robin signing off. See you next
time.
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