June 4, 2025 • 27 mins
This week’s “How She Finds Purpose” insight comes from Jessica Werner. She says –
"Follow the things that you're curious about, even if they don't seem connected. You never know when they're going to become a building block of something."
Jessica Werner is the founder and CEO of NorthShore Learning, where she provides life-coaching style professional development for teachers, helping them combat burnout and improve student outcomes.
With a PhD in education and experience teaching worldwide, she combines her expertise in behavior support, social-emotional learning, and holistic approaches to transform education.
Here are 3 reasons why you should listen to this episode:
- Discover how Jessica transformed a dream job into a purpose-driven business that supports teachers and changes classrooms worldwide.
- Learn why following curiosity, even without a clear plan, can open doors you never imagined.
- Get Jessica’s powerful advice for high-achieving women who feel stuck but know they are meant for something more.
Connect with Jessica at:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-werner-ph-d
NorthShore Learning: https://northshorelearning.org/
Would you prefer to watch or listen to the podcast on YouTube?
Head on over to https://www.youtube.com/@leadershippurposepodcast
Want to connect? Connect with Dr. Robin on
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinlowensphd/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robinlowensphd
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robinlowensphd/
Email: Robin@LeadershipPurposePodcast.com
Thank you for listening! Rate, review, & follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. Talk to you soon!
This episode was produced by Lynda, Podcast Manager for GenX Creative Entrepreneurs at https://www.ljscreativeservices.co.nz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Dr Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin L Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership Purpose
(00:47):
with Dr. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here listening to the
podcast. I say it all the time, and I'll continue to say it. I
really appreciate you for listening into the podcast because we wouldn't have a
podcast without you listening. And because you've been listening
so faithfully, we've been ranked in the top 5%
of all podcasts globally according to Listen
(01:10):
Notes. So thank you for listening. I really appreciate you. And
continue help us out. Go ahead and rate, review, subscribe.
I know you hear those words all the time. They seem meaningless, but they're meaningful.
So if you do that, really appreciate it. Alright. Now
today, I'm talking with Dr. Jessica
Werner. Now let me tell you about Dr. Jessica. She is the founder
(01:33):
and CEO of North Shore Learning. And from teaching
across the globe, Jessica witnessed a common
struggle, burnout among educators
and declining student behavior. This drove her
to establish North Shore Learning, a groundbreaking
initiative offering personalized life coaching
(01:56):
style professional development for teachers. I just have to
pause and say I think that's an amazing idea. I love
that. Anyway, okay, now back to our intros.
With a PhD in education, Jessica is not just an academic
but a dynamic force reshaping classrooms
worldwide. Her expertise in behavior
(02:17):
support, social and emotional learning, and holistic student
approaches sets her apart. Through North Shore
Learning, Jessica is passionately committed to
retaining quality teachers and creating
an inclusive, supportive educational experience
for all. Welcome, Dr. Jessica Werner.
(02:41):
I'm excited to be here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're
here. Okay. So now you heard me just read your
official introduction. Now tell us in your own
words more about who you are and then
about the work you do. It's so crazy to hear the
introduction because if you had said ten years ago, in ten
(03:02):
years, this is what you'll be doing, and I I
would not believe it. So, yeah, I'm so happy to be
here. I'm Jessica. I'm a former teacher, elementary
school, middle school. I taught preschool even. I did a stint
and taught around The US, around the world,
was super committed to education. I still am. And and students
(03:26):
and working with kids, But I found
it was really, really hard. And
I mean, we know this, we know teaching is a hard job, but the job
was getting harder. And when it came time to decide if I would
keep teaching or pursue my doctorate, I thought,
I don't know how anybody could do grad school and teach at the same time,
(03:48):
like too much emotional drain. So I left the
classroom to study and I honestly didn't think
necessarily I would be back in schools. My doctorate is in
policy and specifically I was doing work
internationally and hoping to do work with humanitarian aid, which I
did end up doing, but I just can't
(04:10):
stay away. I can't stay away from schools. And I think my heart
understands teachers, understands and sees how hard
it is. It's getting harder. Obviously, the pay is not
increasing. And now that I have kids in the system, I think
it's so important to know and to be able
to take for granted that our children, a, will
(04:32):
have teachers and will have really good teachers. So I do what
I do now, honestly, just to try and keep good teachers in
schools feeling supported. And it's
it's such a privilege. I feel like I have the world's best job. Love that.
And I love that the way you say, school and
education has always been a part of your heart and you've made
(04:55):
it work for you. You had different iterations of it. And I have
to say, God bless you. You even taught preschool. I mean, I can't even imagine.
Preschool's special. That is a special it takes it takes
special people for all the ages, but I think specifically middle school
and preschool. Oh, yeah. A special person. Yes.
My heart goes out to the middle schoolers teaching
(05:18):
all the time. I mean, I have the good fortune of teaching, you know, students
that are 18 through 21, so it's a little, a little easier.
Yeah. Yeah. But I love that you you transitioned. You
kept close to your heart and then you made it look different. All right. You
started out saying ten years ago, you would never have imagined. After hearing your
introduction, you said ten years ago, you wouldn't have imagined. What
(05:40):
was happening ten years ago that you wouldn't have imagined doing what you're doing
now? Well, I just think I never foresaw being a
business owner. It was never like a dream. I
never thought, oh, I wanna do that. In fact, when I saw or heard
about small businesses, it kind of scared me a
little bit. I always felt like, wow, those people are really brave because
(06:03):
it looks hard. How do you get customers? How do you put the word
out? And so I had, I've always had a lot of respect for business
owners, but I never thought, oh, that'll be me.
And so my journey into it was
really unexpected. And when you haven't gone
the entrepreneurial route, you don't really think about it too much.
(06:26):
You know, we we get a job, we keep our job, we take
our vacation, we we get our paycheck. It
never occurred to me that I could kind of build my own
work because in our family, we don't
have a history of entrepreneurship. We have a history of really
hard, amazing workers, but I just, I didn't have any
(06:49):
kind of model for that to think, okay, that's what I wanna do. So
I think it's amazing because the fact that I did
it without intending to and that it's been working and
we've been evolving, and I'm learning this thing. I feel like I'm
getting a PhD in business, but I'm starting in
kindergarten because to go from
(07:11):
teaching or any any real industry into being
an entrepreneur is very different. So I feel like a kindergartner.
Yeah. Yeah. And you're doing it. You're doing it. Okay,
so what happened? How did how did the change happen? What
was happening around the time when you started to
make the shift? Where what were you doing in terms of work?
(07:33):
And then how did the idea come up? What was happening to
bring it up for you? I have to say it happened pretty slowly. It definitely
wasn't like an epiphany. It wasn't obvious. I, so I
had a full time job. I was working in international development and it was a
dream job. I was leading teacher professional learning
with local schools in East Africa. It was a dream. I I
(07:55):
loved it. I loved our the communities we worked with. I
loved the people who were on my team. But what
I didn't realize is that for the years I did that,
there, there wasn't a whole lot of growth, like personal and
professional growth. I was kind of repeating the same playbook and
that was fine for a while, but then it got to the point where I
(08:18):
wanted to innovate and that wasn't really allowed at the time for
different reasons. But then I started getting
a little curious, like, okay, I didn't realize that was
something I needed to be fulfilled. What can that look
like? So since graduate school, which I
graduated officially in 2012 or '13,
(08:41):
I, I had started teaching in the teacher ed program, so
aspiring teachers. So even when I was working
in international development, I was teaching graduate students
how to be teachers, classroom management, and part of the work
was supervision. And that was my favorite part where I would go into the school,
I would watch them in action, we would debrief, and it
(09:04):
was after visiting a school, and the principal said, you've
done a lot of work with our student teachers. Do you think you could do
some of the same things with my other teachers?
And that was where the idea sparked and my
immediate answer was, I don't know. Can you?
Like is that, is there funding for that? Is there,
(09:27):
what does that look like? I had no idea. So I said yes,
because that's just a good rule of thumb to start saying yes,
whenever you're asked a question. Can you do this? Yes. And then I
started doing what I do really well probably from the
doctorate is I started researching. I just, I I was like, I'm gonna figure
it out. I'm gonna ask around. I'm gonna figure out what
(09:49):
people charge. And that was our, the
first contract. It was, I, I of course, way
under charge because I didn't know any better. And I still probably went way under
charge, honestly, because that doesn't get easier. It doesn't get easier to figure
out pricing and and your value, what you're worth. But
I loved it. And I said to him at the end of that
(10:11):
experience, I said, do you think any other principals would be interested in this? And
he said, yeah, I'll pass I'll pass your name along. And again, that was like
a smart strategic move of mine that I didn't even know
was smart and strategic. But yeah, he
passed me. I got a referral almost immediately. And
so for the first couple of years, it was small contract
(10:33):
to small contract, and I had a full time job and I had two children
at home. So everything was kind of going great. But
then I got to the point where I started getting more
excited about the business and
finding business. And I started, I was
still doing my job really well, I think, but you just know,
(10:55):
everybody knows where you get to the crossroads when you kind of lose
steam. And it was then that I realized
I should make a decision. I should do one or the other. Being
both I'm feeling very divided. It was very hard
to walk away from a paycheck and benefits, but
that is kind of the progression to 2020,
(11:19):
which was three years after the first contract when I said, okay,
I quit my job. I lost my salary,
and it it was all unknown. That was a,
a bold and brave move for you. I feel like it
always is for people. Like, any kind of leap of faith, like,
literally, you have no idea where you're going. But, yeah, it was very
(11:41):
scary. And it took a long time for me to get there. I mean, my
husband is also an educator, so we do need
resources and finances. And I had to be sure and
or at least hopeful that we could keep things going, but it was very
scary. Yeah. That makes sense. Alright. So now say more about that.
When you said you came to a point where you were at a crossroads and
(12:03):
you knew you had to make a decision? Do you remember anything else about that
time? What was happening, what you were thinking, or what you were feeling? Or,
like, how'd you know that you were even at a crossroads? I had
just I had felt myself kind of I had this nagging feeling
in the back of my head for a few years that I was outgrowing the
job that I had. And I I ignored that feeling because like I
(12:25):
said, the drop the job was a dream job. I loved the job,
but because I wasn't able to innovate, because
I don't know, just different factors. My family was growing.
Over time it became clear, like my heart was not there.
And I think I would have stayed with the job if, if I hadn't been
creating something in addition to it, that really
(12:48):
I never set out to create. But by the time I was really
ready to leave the job, the business was ready to
have me full time and it was, it was like really serendipitous
because the job of doing
trainings in East Africa ceased to exist after
2020 because we couldn't travel there. Because of the two years
(13:11):
of stop travel and so I don't think it would
have existed after. But, you know, of course I
had no way of knowing that when I was feeling this conflict, but yeah, it
all kind of worked out. Yeah. That's amazing.
Alright. So then you got some opportunities and kind of word-of-mouth and
referrals. And then how'd you move into kind of really
(13:33):
making it the thing that you knew you wanted to do and plan to build?
I think as I saw over time how everywhere
I did the work, I felt like I could see some kind of impact
immediately. And a lot of times it was just a teacher saying like, thank
you, or it's so good to be heard, or now I know what to do
with that, that behavior problem. And I thought, I wonder
(13:56):
if this is something we could spread larger than
just here in the twin cities. And I had spent
a year abroad in my early twenties working at
an international school in Warsaw, Poland. So I
knew there was kind of this international school network. I knew there were
networks outside of Minnesota, obviously, but I decided to make a really
(14:19):
concerted effort to try and tap into them. And
so once we started spreading, not just locally, but
then domestically, and then we had our first international
client, I thought, you know, if the world, if the entire
world is at play, like, we can we can make
this into something big. Yeah. That's amazing that you
(14:42):
and that you are thinking globally. I mean, you are thinking big immediately.
It was only because I had had this previous experience, which I'm
so grateful for because the actual experience was not great.
Awesome. But I think it planted this seed in me
that it gave me a window into these
this other system that most people don't know exists, but I knew it was out
(15:05):
there. And I knew because I had taught in it that they were having all
the same issues that we were having here. Yeah.
Yeah. Now would you say today you have purpose in your
work? Yes. A %. I feel
blessed every day. It feels like a dream that I didn't know that
I wanted. You know, like I said, ten years ago, I did not know.
(15:28):
It's amazing to work in schools. It's hard. So some of the first
advice I got when I said I'm gonna be doing
education. They're like, you can't make money there. It's a terrible industry. It's
(15:48):
really volatile. And I have ignored
that. And I'm still here because
it's not just about what is the work we do and
it's about the impact. And, you know, you're
an educator. It's hard if you're outside of that to
realize how important it is. But every time I step into a school or I
(16:11):
work with a teacher or principal, I feel really honored that I
get to do that work and be in that environment because it's so meaningful to
so many people. Yes. And it sounds like it's meaningful
to you because it's meaningful to so many other
people. Absolutely. I think education is a human it's a
basic human right. And that everybody everywhere should
(16:33):
have the opportunity to have good education. And that
includes kids with special needs, which has been a lot of the work we've been
doing recently. So I'm really just trying to make sure that all
kids, all kids can get what they need. And I've worked in places
where that will never be achieved. Like the systems in certain
countries where I've worked, they, they do not accommodate
(16:55):
students. So I, I feel like it gives me even more of a
purpose to try and do what I can within the systems where I'm working to
try and help that. Sounds like that idea of making an
impact through education is the core driver
and the thing that connects you mostly with your purpose.
Absolutely. Sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. So now do you think it's important
(17:17):
for people in general, we're talking to, high achieving women, think it's
important for them to have the sense of purpose in their life and or
work? I think so. There's a lot of conflicting
messages about that. And I hear them all the time in the entrepreneurial
world, but they mostly are coming from men who say you don't have
to be connected to the work. You just have to be really invested in it.
(17:40):
But I don't know how I can be invested in work I'm not connected
to. And so I don't know if that's my perspective as a female
or just who I am, but I think especially for
women who are raising families, you know, all the, there
are only so many hours in the day we can do everything. And so we,
we wanna be doing things that are meaningful. And I like to think
(18:02):
because my family's not always very happy with me when I have to like do
work, but I like to think at least they're seeing that
mom is doing something that matters.
So for me, yes. For other people, maybe not. Maybe you
don't need a sense of purpose to do the work. Maybe the work and the
the payoff is its own purpose. But for me, I just feel
(18:25):
really connected to the the purpose of the work. Yeah.
So that's what you were talking about when you say connected, connected to the
purpose of the work. Yes. Okay. All right.
So now this podcast, as you may know, I'm sure you listened to some
episodes, is for what I call high achieving women. Now, here's
my definition of high achieving women, especially for those who are listening because they might
(18:46):
have their own definition. She is responsible.
Always, you can count on her to get things done. She's ambitious
in a positive way. She's good at some things.
And she's the one in her professional life where people come to her
for advice, whether it's related to her area of what her work
(19:07):
is or not. Theyshe's the one in her home life. She's
the one that they come to, family, friends, neighbor,
community. She's the one. And so she's always giving out
this support for other people. So when I originally started the
podcast, it was to support her. Then I added on the
layer, Oh, she's also at that place where you were
(19:29):
about ten years ago looking for more meaning
and purpose and impact through her work, and she's
not quite there. She's having the feeling like where you were
feeling disconnected from the work. So with
her in mind, what's something you could share from youreither
your personal or your professional life that might be a
(19:52):
source of encouragement to her? Well, yes.
I I do have some advice. Again, I was kinda doing it before I knew
I was doing it, but one of the things I was very
grateful for in my job is that they they let me do some
professional development. They, they never questioned what it was and I
just kind of followed my interests. So the years I was,
(20:15):
the last couple of years at my job, I found, you know, different
workshops people had recommended that I didn't know much about, but they
sounded interesting. And when you look on the
map, they weren't they weren't super close to the
actual work. They weren't even tangential. They were just things that
I I was really motivated to learn more about. And what
(20:37):
I found that as I kept doing that, you know, a little bit over
time or even reading a book, you know, reading a book that it doesn't have
anything to do with work, doesn't have anything to do with family, but it's an
interest that kind of compounded. And then when
I was ready to start my own business, I had
acquired this skill set along the way, just out of
(20:59):
pure interest. And I think that's what I would say.
Just follow follow the things that you're curious about and are
interested in, even if they don't seem connected or related at all. You
never know when it's going to become like a building block of something.
Yes. Yes. And it your story is a perfect illustration of
that. Yes. Absolutely. And it sounds like curiosity
(21:22):
and innovation was a driver for you in addition to this
wanting to make a meaningful contribution and have impact.
Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I haven't ever thought of it that way, but
you're right. Curiosity is really what led me kind of away
from the other job. And it's it's one thing. It's a
really good quality to have in entrepreneurship
(21:44):
because you never know what's gonna happen and you have to kind of engage
with each day with curiosity and open mindedness, which is really hard
sometimes. But yeah, it keeps me going and keeps me
motivated. Yeah. Yeah. And when you talked about it, when I asked you
if you had purpose in your work and you lit up, you like all the
energy, which is I think another indicator for people when they, when you
(22:06):
kind of feel that energy rise up within. Yeah. And to your
point, after exploring things that are curious or you're interested
in will help you get to that eventually. And what I appreciate in your story,
too, you talked about it was like a few years, so people don't
expect it to happen overnight. Like there was some time in between,
so give it some time. And if they're taking your advice to
(22:29):
then seek out things that they're interested in, they have time to
really dig into those. Yeah. Yeah. And even, you
know, right now, unfortunately, there are a lot of people
jumping out of education and they want to jump into
consulting. And it seems like
they think it'll be a quick little hop, like over to the
(22:51):
next thing. And what I want to say is first of all it's
so hard to build and it takes a long time, but even
the more you get out and expose yourself to different things, like if I,
if I want to be a consultant, what kind of field do I want to
work in? Do what kind of school, if it's education, do I wanna be
facilitating or do I wanna be doing one on one? Like all those things
(23:12):
are important to discern and you can do
that while you're waiting. You can, you can go. I mean, I
do this all the time. I reach out to people and I say, oh, can
I come see what you do? And then, you know, you get that
feeling when you see it. You're either like, yeah, I could do that. Or, oh,
no. Uh-uh. What's an example of something
(23:32):
you wanted to go see and you observed? Back when I
was not sure exactly what I would be doing after my, my previous
job, I thought, you know what? I have the credentials. I love working in
schools. Maybe I want to run a school. So maybe I
wanna be like a principal or a head of school. And I started
before I did my own advice, I started applying for jobs.
(23:56):
And it was at the end of an interview cycle where
I was being considered for head of school that I thought, you know what,
I I'm just gonna talk to a few more people who do this and and
learn more about it. Like, I think I know what it is, but I wanna
know what the actual experience is. And I talked to one
person, Thank goodness. And he had talked me out
(24:18):
of it, not on purpose, just telling me the reality of his job in about
five seconds. And I thought, oh, I'm so glad you saved me from
something I I really wouldn't have been good at anyway.
But yeah, I'm so glad I just started asking around and started,
and people are always, not always, but I would say 90% of the time
people are open to talking and they're open to sharing their story.
(24:42):
And so I guess it's something I've never been afraid to ask. Yeah. It's
a good strategy. Another one that, like, an expert strategy that you didn't
realize was an expert strategy when you did it. Yep.
Like like this one and the other one, kind of. Do you know anybody else
who might need my services? Yeah. Yeah. It's Really good. Something
about instincts that come to you that, Hey, this is the next right thing to
(25:04):
do. Jessica, you've dropped so many nuggets. I'm
sure, remember in the beginning I was like, I'm sure somebody will get at
least one nugget from this. I think they got several nuggets of
information and inspiration that they could take with them. Now
is there something that I didn't get to ask you that you'd like to
share or that if anything popped in your mind? If not, it's okay. But if
(25:26):
is there one more thing you wanna say before we tell people how they can
be in touch with you? I think I wanna say thank you for creating
spaces that honors women and women, high achieving
women, women who are looking for purpose because
it it's it's a tricky space. It's
especially in business, it's dominated by males. The
(25:49):
drive often looks different. The motivations can be different. Not always, but
sometimes. And a lot of the messaging you have to filter out and be
like, all right, what, what is actually relevant for
me? So I just want to thank you and to women who are listening, who
are thinking, yeah, it seems like it's going to be really hard. It
is. And having communities like this is really essential.
(26:11):
So go find the communities, keep listening to the podcast and
find your people to help you remember why you're doing
what you're doing. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for your kind words.
I appreciate that and your wisdom. So So now people wanna be in touch with
you. How can they connect with you? I'm on LinkedIn,
(26:31):
and it's also easiest probably through my website, which is
northshorelearning.org. Okay. And
we'll be sure to put that in the show notes. Jessica, thank you so much
for spending your time and being generous with your wisdom and
somehow your instinctual expertise.
Thank you so much for having me. It was a delight. Okay,
(26:54):
everyone, I'd love to hear your response to this episode. So connect with me
on LinkedIn. I'm on all the socials, but I spend most of my time on
LinkedIn. Connect there, and I'd love to hear your response
to the episode, or if you just want more information and,
insights and stories and tools and resources like we are doing here, I
share them on LinkedIn at Robin L. Owens
(27:16):
PhD, at Robin L. Owens PhD. And
until next time, this is Dr. Robin.
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Leadership Purpose
with Dr. Robin podcast. If you enjoyed it, head on
over and rate and subscribe so you never miss an
episode. New episodes drop every week, and I
(27:39):
can't wait to hang out with you again soon.
Meanwhile, this is Dr. Robin
signing off. See you next
time.
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Dr Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin L Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership Purpose
(00:47):
with Dr. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here listening to the
podcast. I say it all the time, and I'll continue to say it. I
really appreciate you for listening into the podcast because we wouldn't have a
podcast without you listening. And because you've been listening
so faithfully, we've been ranked in the top 5%
of all podcasts globally according to Listen
(01:10):
Notes. So thank you for listening. I really appreciate you. And
continue help us out. Go ahead and rate, review, subscribe.
I know you hear those words all the time. They seem meaningless, but they're meaningful.
So if you do that, really appreciate it. Alright. Now
today, I'm talking with Dr. Jessica
Werner. Now let me tell you about Dr. Jessica. She is the founder
(01:33):
and CEO of North Shore Learning. And from teaching
across the globe, Jessica witnessed a common
struggle, burnout among educators
and declining student behavior. This drove her
to establish North Shore Learning, a groundbreaking
initiative offering personalized life coaching
(01:56):
style professional development for teachers. I just have to
pause and say I think that's an amazing idea. I love
that. Anyway, okay, now back to our intros.
With a PhD in education, Jessica is not just an academic
but a dynamic force reshaping classrooms
worldwide. Her expertise in behavior
(02:17):
support, social and emotional learning, and holistic student
approaches sets her apart. Through North Shore
Learning, Jessica is passionately committed to
retaining quality teachers and creating
an inclusive, supportive educational experience
for all. Welcome, Dr. Jessica Werner.
(02:41):
I'm excited to be here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're
here. Okay. So now you heard me just read your
official introduction. Now tell us in your own
words more about who you are and then
about the work you do. It's so crazy to hear the
introduction because if you had said ten years ago, in ten
(03:02):
years, this is what you'll be doing, and I I
would not believe it. So, yeah, I'm so happy to be
here. I'm Jessica. I'm a former teacher, elementary
school, middle school. I taught preschool even. I did a stint
and taught around The US, around the world,
was super committed to education. I still am. And and students
(03:26):
and working with kids, But I found
it was really, really hard. And
I mean, we know this, we know teaching is a hard job, but the job
was getting harder. And when it came time to decide if I would
keep teaching or pursue my doctorate, I thought,
I don't know how anybody could do grad school and teach at the same time,
(03:48):
like too much emotional drain. So I left the
classroom to study and I honestly didn't think
necessarily I would be back in schools. My doctorate is in
policy and specifically I was doing work
internationally and hoping to do work with humanitarian aid, which I
did end up doing, but I just can't
(04:10):
stay away. I can't stay away from schools. And I think my heart
understands teachers, understands and sees how hard
it is. It's getting harder. Obviously, the pay is not
increasing. And now that I have kids in the system, I think
it's so important to know and to be able
to take for granted that our children, a, will
(04:32):
have teachers and will have really good teachers. So I do what
I do now, honestly, just to try and keep good teachers in
schools feeling supported. And it's
it's such a privilege. I feel like I have the world's best job. Love that.
And I love that the way you say, school and
education has always been a part of your heart and you've made
(04:55):
it work for you. You had different iterations of it. And I have
to say, God bless you. You even taught preschool. I mean, I can't even imagine.
Preschool's special. That is a special it takes it takes
special people for all the ages, but I think specifically middle school
and preschool. Oh, yeah. A special person. Yes.
My heart goes out to the middle schoolers teaching
(05:18):
all the time. I mean, I have the good fortune of teaching, you know, students
that are 18 through 21, so it's a little, a little easier.
Yeah. Yeah. But I love that you you transitioned. You
kept close to your heart and then you made it look different. All right. You
started out saying ten years ago, you would never have imagined. After hearing your
introduction, you said ten years ago, you wouldn't have imagined. What
(05:40):
was happening ten years ago that you wouldn't have imagined doing what you're doing
now? Well, I just think I never foresaw being a
business owner. It was never like a dream. I
never thought, oh, I wanna do that. In fact, when I saw or heard
about small businesses, it kind of scared me a
little bit. I always felt like, wow, those people are really brave because
(06:03):
it looks hard. How do you get customers? How do you put the word
out? And so I had, I've always had a lot of respect for business
owners, but I never thought, oh, that'll be me.
And so my journey into it was
really unexpected. And when you haven't gone
the entrepreneurial route, you don't really think about it too much.
(06:26):
You know, we we get a job, we keep our job, we take
our vacation, we we get our paycheck. It
never occurred to me that I could kind of build my own
work because in our family, we don't
have a history of entrepreneurship. We have a history of really
hard, amazing workers, but I just, I didn't have any
(06:49):
kind of model for that to think, okay, that's what I wanna do. So
I think it's amazing because the fact that I did
it without intending to and that it's been working and
we've been evolving, and I'm learning this thing. I feel like I'm
getting a PhD in business, but I'm starting in
kindergarten because to go from
(07:11):
teaching or any any real industry into being
an entrepreneur is very different. So I feel like a kindergartner.
Yeah. Yeah. And you're doing it. You're doing it. Okay,
so what happened? How did how did the change happen? What
was happening around the time when you started to
make the shift? Where what were you doing in terms of work?
(07:33):
And then how did the idea come up? What was happening to
bring it up for you? I have to say it happened pretty slowly. It definitely
wasn't like an epiphany. It wasn't obvious. I, so I
had a full time job. I was working in international development and it was a
dream job. I was leading teacher professional learning
with local schools in East Africa. It was a dream. I I
(07:55):
loved it. I loved our the communities we worked with. I
loved the people who were on my team. But what
I didn't realize is that for the years I did that,
there, there wasn't a whole lot of growth, like personal and
professional growth. I was kind of repeating the same playbook and
that was fine for a while, but then it got to the point where I
(08:18):
wanted to innovate and that wasn't really allowed at the time for
different reasons. But then I started getting
a little curious, like, okay, I didn't realize that was
something I needed to be fulfilled. What can that look
like? So since graduate school, which I
graduated officially in 2012 or '13,
(08:41):
I, I had started teaching in the teacher ed program, so
aspiring teachers. So even when I was working
in international development, I was teaching graduate students
how to be teachers, classroom management, and part of the work
was supervision. And that was my favorite part where I would go into the school,
I would watch them in action, we would debrief, and it
(09:04):
was after visiting a school, and the principal said, you've
done a lot of work with our student teachers. Do you think you could do
some of the same things with my other teachers?
And that was where the idea sparked and my
immediate answer was, I don't know. Can you?
Like is that, is there funding for that? Is there,
(09:27):
what does that look like? I had no idea. So I said yes,
because that's just a good rule of thumb to start saying yes,
whenever you're asked a question. Can you do this? Yes. And then I
started doing what I do really well probably from the
doctorate is I started researching. I just, I I was like, I'm gonna figure
it out. I'm gonna ask around. I'm gonna figure out what
(09:49):
people charge. And that was our, the
first contract. It was, I, I of course, way
under charge because I didn't know any better. And I still probably went way under
charge, honestly, because that doesn't get easier. It doesn't get easier to figure
out pricing and and your value, what you're worth. But
I loved it. And I said to him at the end of that
(10:11):
experience, I said, do you think any other principals would be interested in this? And
he said, yeah, I'll pass I'll pass your name along. And again, that was like
a smart strategic move of mine that I didn't even know
was smart and strategic. But yeah, he
passed me. I got a referral almost immediately. And
so for the first couple of years, it was small contract
(10:33):
to small contract, and I had a full time job and I had two children
at home. So everything was kind of going great. But
then I got to the point where I started getting more
excited about the business and
finding business. And I started, I was
still doing my job really well, I think, but you just know,
(10:55):
everybody knows where you get to the crossroads when you kind of lose
steam. And it was then that I realized
I should make a decision. I should do one or the other. Being
both I'm feeling very divided. It was very hard
to walk away from a paycheck and benefits, but
that is kind of the progression to 2020,
(11:19):
which was three years after the first contract when I said, okay,
I quit my job. I lost my salary,
and it it was all unknown. That was a,
a bold and brave move for you. I feel like it
always is for people. Like, any kind of leap of faith, like,
literally, you have no idea where you're going. But, yeah, it was very
(11:41):
scary. And it took a long time for me to get there. I mean, my
husband is also an educator, so we do need
resources and finances. And I had to be sure and
or at least hopeful that we could keep things going, but it was very
scary. Yeah. That makes sense. Alright. So now say more about that.
When you said you came to a point where you were at a crossroads and
(12:03):
you knew you had to make a decision? Do you remember anything else about that
time? What was happening, what you were thinking, or what you were feeling? Or,
like, how'd you know that you were even at a crossroads? I had
just I had felt myself kind of I had this nagging feeling
in the back of my head for a few years that I was outgrowing the
job that I had. And I I ignored that feeling because like I
(12:25):
said, the drop the job was a dream job. I loved the job,
but because I wasn't able to innovate, because
I don't know, just different factors. My family was growing.
Over time it became clear, like my heart was not there.
And I think I would have stayed with the job if, if I hadn't been
creating something in addition to it, that really
(12:48):
I never set out to create. But by the time I was really
ready to leave the job, the business was ready to
have me full time and it was, it was like really serendipitous
because the job of doing
trainings in East Africa ceased to exist after
2020 because we couldn't travel there. Because of the two years
(13:11):
of stop travel and so I don't think it would
have existed after. But, you know, of course I
had no way of knowing that when I was feeling this conflict, but yeah, it
all kind of worked out. Yeah. That's amazing.
Alright. So then you got some opportunities and kind of word-of-mouth and
referrals. And then how'd you move into kind of really
(13:33):
making it the thing that you knew you wanted to do and plan to build?
I think as I saw over time how everywhere
I did the work, I felt like I could see some kind of impact
immediately. And a lot of times it was just a teacher saying like, thank
you, or it's so good to be heard, or now I know what to do
with that, that behavior problem. And I thought, I wonder
(13:56):
if this is something we could spread larger than
just here in the twin cities. And I had spent
a year abroad in my early twenties working at
an international school in Warsaw, Poland. So I
knew there was kind of this international school network. I knew there were
networks outside of Minnesota, obviously, but I decided to make a really
(14:19):
concerted effort to try and tap into them. And
so once we started spreading, not just locally, but
then domestically, and then we had our first international
client, I thought, you know, if the world, if the entire
world is at play, like, we can we can make
this into something big. Yeah. That's amazing that you
(14:42):
and that you are thinking globally. I mean, you are thinking big immediately.
It was only because I had had this previous experience, which I'm
so grateful for because the actual experience was not great.
Awesome. But I think it planted this seed in me
that it gave me a window into these
this other system that most people don't know exists, but I knew it was out
(15:05):
there. And I knew because I had taught in it that they were having all
the same issues that we were having here. Yeah.
Yeah. Now would you say today you have purpose in your
work? Yes. A %. I feel
blessed every day. It feels like a dream that I didn't know that
I wanted. You know, like I said, ten years ago, I did not know.
(15:28):
It's amazing to work in schools. It's hard. So some of the first
advice I got when I said I'm gonna be doing
education. They're like, you can't make money there. It's a terrible industry. It's
(15:48):
really volatile. And I have ignored
that. And I'm still here because
it's not just about what is the work we do and
it's about the impact. And, you know, you're
an educator. It's hard if you're outside of that to
realize how important it is. But every time I step into a school or I
(16:11):
work with a teacher or principal, I feel really honored that I
get to do that work and be in that environment because it's so meaningful to
so many people. Yes. And it sounds like it's meaningful
to you because it's meaningful to so many other
people. Absolutely. I think education is a human it's a
basic human right. And that everybody everywhere should
(16:33):
have the opportunity to have good education. And that
includes kids with special needs, which has been a lot of the work we've been
doing recently. So I'm really just trying to make sure that all
kids, all kids can get what they need. And I've worked in places
where that will never be achieved. Like the systems in certain
countries where I've worked, they, they do not accommodate
(16:55):
students. So I, I feel like it gives me even more of a
purpose to try and do what I can within the systems where I'm working to
try and help that. Sounds like that idea of making an
impact through education is the core driver
and the thing that connects you mostly with your purpose.
Absolutely. Sounds like. Yeah. Yeah. So now do you think it's important
(17:17):
for people in general, we're talking to, high achieving women, think it's
important for them to have the sense of purpose in their life and or
work? I think so. There's a lot of conflicting
messages about that. And I hear them all the time in the entrepreneurial
world, but they mostly are coming from men who say you don't have
to be connected to the work. You just have to be really invested in it.
(17:40):
But I don't know how I can be invested in work I'm not connected
to. And so I don't know if that's my perspective as a female
or just who I am, but I think especially for
women who are raising families, you know, all the, there
are only so many hours in the day we can do everything. And so we,
we wanna be doing things that are meaningful. And I like to think
(18:02):
because my family's not always very happy with me when I have to like do
work, but I like to think at least they're seeing that
mom is doing something that matters.
So for me, yes. For other people, maybe not. Maybe you
don't need a sense of purpose to do the work. Maybe the work and the
the payoff is its own purpose. But for me, I just feel
(18:25):
really connected to the the purpose of the work. Yeah.
So that's what you were talking about when you say connected, connected to the
purpose of the work. Yes. Okay. All right.
So now this podcast, as you may know, I'm sure you listened to some
episodes, is for what I call high achieving women. Now, here's
my definition of high achieving women, especially for those who are listening because they might
(18:46):
have their own definition. She is responsible.
Always, you can count on her to get things done. She's ambitious
in a positive way. She's good at some things.
And she's the one in her professional life where people come to her
for advice, whether it's related to her area of what her work
(19:07):
is or not. Theyshe's the one in her home life. She's
the one that they come to, family, friends, neighbor,
community. She's the one. And so she's always giving out
this support for other people. So when I originally started the
podcast, it was to support her. Then I added on the
layer, Oh, she's also at that place where you were
(19:29):
about ten years ago looking for more meaning
and purpose and impact through her work, and she's
not quite there. She's having the feeling like where you were
feeling disconnected from the work. So with
her in mind, what's something you could share from youreither
your personal or your professional life that might be a
(19:52):
source of encouragement to her? Well, yes.
I I do have some advice. Again, I was kinda doing it before I knew
I was doing it, but one of the things I was very
grateful for in my job is that they they let me do some
professional development. They, they never questioned what it was and I
just kind of followed my interests. So the years I was,
(20:15):
the last couple of years at my job, I found, you know, different
workshops people had recommended that I didn't know much about, but they
sounded interesting. And when you look on the
map, they weren't they weren't super close to the
actual work. They weren't even tangential. They were just things that
I I was really motivated to learn more about. And what
(20:37):
I found that as I kept doing that, you know, a little bit over
time or even reading a book, you know, reading a book that it doesn't have
anything to do with work, doesn't have anything to do with family, but it's an
interest that kind of compounded. And then when
I was ready to start my own business, I had
acquired this skill set along the way, just out of
(20:59):
pure interest. And I think that's what I would say.
Just follow follow the things that you're curious about and are
interested in, even if they don't seem connected or related at all. You
never know when it's going to become like a building block of something.
Yes. Yes. And it your story is a perfect illustration of
that. Yes. Absolutely. And it sounds like curiosity
(21:22):
and innovation was a driver for you in addition to this
wanting to make a meaningful contribution and have impact.
Yeah. Yeah. You're right. I haven't ever thought of it that way, but
you're right. Curiosity is really what led me kind of away
from the other job. And it's it's one thing. It's a
really good quality to have in entrepreneurship
(21:44):
because you never know what's gonna happen and you have to kind of engage
with each day with curiosity and open mindedness, which is really hard
sometimes. But yeah, it keeps me going and keeps me
motivated. Yeah. Yeah. And when you talked about it, when I asked you
if you had purpose in your work and you lit up, you like all the
energy, which is I think another indicator for people when they, when you
(22:06):
kind of feel that energy rise up within. Yeah. And to your
point, after exploring things that are curious or you're interested
in will help you get to that eventually. And what I appreciate in your story,
too, you talked about it was like a few years, so people don't
expect it to happen overnight. Like there was some time in between,
so give it some time. And if they're taking your advice to
(22:29):
then seek out things that they're interested in, they have time to
really dig into those. Yeah. Yeah. And even, you
know, right now, unfortunately, there are a lot of people
jumping out of education and they want to jump into
consulting. And it seems like
they think it'll be a quick little hop, like over to the
(22:51):
next thing. And what I want to say is first of all it's
so hard to build and it takes a long time, but even
the more you get out and expose yourself to different things, like if I,
if I want to be a consultant, what kind of field do I want to
work in? Do what kind of school, if it's education, do I wanna be
facilitating or do I wanna be doing one on one? Like all those things
(23:12):
are important to discern and you can do
that while you're waiting. You can, you can go. I mean, I
do this all the time. I reach out to people and I say, oh, can
I come see what you do? And then, you know, you get that
feeling when you see it. You're either like, yeah, I could do that. Or, oh,
no. Uh-uh. What's an example of something
(23:32):
you wanted to go see and you observed? Back when I
was not sure exactly what I would be doing after my, my previous
job, I thought, you know what? I have the credentials. I love working in
schools. Maybe I want to run a school. So maybe I
wanna be like a principal or a head of school. And I started
before I did my own advice, I started applying for jobs.
(23:56):
And it was at the end of an interview cycle where
I was being considered for head of school that I thought, you know what,
I I'm just gonna talk to a few more people who do this and and
learn more about it. Like, I think I know what it is, but I wanna
know what the actual experience is. And I talked to one
person, Thank goodness. And he had talked me out
(24:18):
of it, not on purpose, just telling me the reality of his job in about
five seconds. And I thought, oh, I'm so glad you saved me from
something I I really wouldn't have been good at anyway.
But yeah, I'm so glad I just started asking around and started,
and people are always, not always, but I would say 90% of the time
people are open to talking and they're open to sharing their story.
(24:42):
And so I guess it's something I've never been afraid to ask. Yeah. It's
a good strategy. Another one that, like, an expert strategy that you didn't
realize was an expert strategy when you did it. Yep.
Like like this one and the other one, kind of. Do you know anybody else
who might need my services? Yeah. Yeah. It's Really good. Something
about instincts that come to you that, Hey, this is the next right thing to
(25:04):
do. Jessica, you've dropped so many nuggets. I'm
sure, remember in the beginning I was like, I'm sure somebody will get at
least one nugget from this. I think they got several nuggets of
information and inspiration that they could take with them. Now
is there something that I didn't get to ask you that you'd like to
share or that if anything popped in your mind? If not, it's okay. But if
(25:26):
is there one more thing you wanna say before we tell people how they can
be in touch with you? I think I wanna say thank you for creating
spaces that honors women and women, high achieving
women, women who are looking for purpose because
it it's it's a tricky space. It's
especially in business, it's dominated by males. The
(25:49):
drive often looks different. The motivations can be different. Not always, but
sometimes. And a lot of the messaging you have to filter out and be
like, all right, what, what is actually relevant for
me? So I just want to thank you and to women who are listening, who
are thinking, yeah, it seems like it's going to be really hard. It
is. And having communities like this is really essential.
(26:11):
So go find the communities, keep listening to the podcast and
find your people to help you remember why you're doing
what you're doing. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for your kind words.
I appreciate that and your wisdom. So So now people wanna be in touch with
you. How can they connect with you? I'm on LinkedIn,
(26:31):
and it's also easiest probably through my website, which is
northshorelearning.org. Okay. And
we'll be sure to put that in the show notes. Jessica, thank you so much
for spending your time and being generous with your wisdom and
somehow your instinctual expertise.
Thank you so much for having me. It was a delight. Okay,
(26:54):
everyone, I'd love to hear your response to this episode. So connect with me
on LinkedIn. I'm on all the socials, but I spend most of my time on
LinkedIn. Connect there, and I'd love to hear your response
to the episode, or if you just want more information and,
insights and stories and tools and resources like we are doing here, I
share them on LinkedIn at Robin L. Owens
(27:16):
PhD, at Robin L. Owens PhD. And
until next time, this is Dr. Robin.
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Leadership Purpose
with Dr. Robin podcast. If you enjoyed it, head on
over and rate and subscribe so you never miss an
episode. New episodes drop every week, and I
(27:39):
can't wait to hang out with you again soon.
Meanwhile, this is Dr. Robin
signing off. See you next
time.
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