July 9, 2025 • 33 mins
This week’s “How She Finds Purpose” insight comes from Neri Karra Sillaman. She says –
“It is never about you. All the entrepreneurs I talk to, that's the most surprising element. When they were building the businesses, it was never about them. They never thought of themselves as the sun in the middle, and they are this leader that is shining out their intelligence and benevolence to others, but they are thinking of others first. And that's what creates business longevity.”
Here are 3 reasons why you should listen to this episode:
-
You’ll hear how Neri made the bold decision to walk away from a successful family business to pursue what really lit her up—and the moment she knew it was time.
-
You’ll learn why so many immigrant entrepreneurs build businesses that last, and how those same principles can apply to your life and work.
-
You’ll get real insight into what it means to live with purpose, even when it means going against expectations and choosing yourself.
Born in communist Bulgaria and once a refugee living in a tent, Neri shares how education became her North Star, how she built a global luxury goods brand with her family, and why stepping away from it all led her to the work she was truly meant to do.
Neri Karra Sillaman is a globally recognized entrepreneur, author, and advisor to leaders worldwide. She’s also the founder of a luxury leather goods brand, a former associate professor, and author of Pioneers: Eight Principles of Business Longevity from Immigrant Entrepreneurs.
Connect with Neri at:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/prof.neri/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neri-karra-sillaman/
You can purchase her book Pioneers at Amazon here https://www.amazon.com/Pioneers-Principles-Longevity-Immigrant-Entrepreneurs/dp/1394304056
Would you prefer to watch or listen to the podcast on YouTube?
Head on over to https://www.youtube.com/@leadershippurposepodcast
Want to connect? Connect with Dr. Robin on
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinlowensphd/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robinlowensphd
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robinlowensphd/
Email: Robin@LeadershipPurposePodcast.com
Thank you for listening! Rate, review, & follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. Talk to you soon!
This episode was produced by Lynda, Podcast Manager for GenX Creative Entrepreneurs at https://www.ljscreativeservices.co.nz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin l Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership
(00:47):
Purpose with Doctor. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here
and listening into the podcast. I really appreciate you for listening in. I
know I say it all the time every episode, and I'll continue to say it
because the appreciation is real. We couldn't have a podcast
without you. And because you've been such faithful listeners, we've
been ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts
(01:10):
globally according to Listen Notes. So thank you for listening in.
And would you do us a favor and go ahead and submit a review of
the podcast? It'll help us keep it going. And share the podcast with a
friend. Alright. So now that we've gotten that out of the way, and I hope
you really take that to heart, I'm really looking forward to my conversation
today with Doctor. Neri Kara Silliman.
(01:32):
Now let me tell you a little bit about Doctor. Neri. She is a
globally recognized entrepreneur, thought leader, and
author. She's named to the thinkers 50 radar
list. She is the founder of a luxury leather goods
brand and sought after advisor to global leaders.
In her book entitled Pioneers, and those who are on
(01:54):
YouTube, you might be able to see it. She has an image up on the
screen now. But the title of the book is Pioneers, eight
principles of business longevity from immigrant
entrepreneurs. And the book is a transformative guide to
building businesses that last, and it's inspired by stories of
resilience and purpose. And it features insights from
(02:15):
founders of Chobani, Duolingo, Calendly, and
others. And her book bridges passion, purpose,
and practicality for lasting impact. Welcome,
doctor Neri Kara Silliman. Thank you, Robin. It's so nice
to see you. No so nice to meet you. Thank you for inviting me.
I'm so glad you're here and that you're taking time at the end
(02:37):
of really at the end of your night, 9PM in
Paris. Thank you for staying up late and staying alert to
have this conversation. Alright. So let's just jump right in. You heard
me read your introduction and a little bit about you, but why don't you tell
us in your own words a little bit more two things
about who you are. You can say anything about who you are and then about
(02:59):
the work you do. So it's quite a long story, and I'll
try to keep it as concise as possible. Yeah. Give us the
short version, and then I'll come back to it later because I wanna kinda do
it in order. Sure. So I was born in
Bulgaria during communism to Turkish ethnic
minority. And in 1989, we were
(03:20):
asked to leave the country, and 360,000
of Bulgarians of Turkish ethnicity like me had to
leave the country. At the age of 11, I became a refugee with my
parents and nine nine year old brother. We first lived
in a refugee camp in a tent, set up by
the Red Cross. And then I went to University
(03:43):
of Miami, did my bachelor's degree there because education
is what drove me forward. And in those very challenging
days and times, it became my North Star.
I did start our family business of
luxury leather goods products when I was 21 years old with
my parents and my family. And we
(04:06):
produce today, our business is twenty five years
old, and we produce for some of the
leading luxury leather goods in the world. They are based
in Italy. But because of my contract, I can't
reveal their names. Although in some podcasts, I did reveal
them. And I have a PhD from University
(04:28):
of Cambridge, so I bridge both academia and entrepreneurship.
And I have been wearing those two hats for several years.
But in the last six or seven years, I
have taken a step back from my family business where my parents
run the business. And instead, I focused on what I love, which
is speaking, advising. And very recently, I
(04:51):
wrote a book that you mentioned, Pioneers. I love
that. Everything about that journey. Wow. I'm sure there's a lot
to unpack. Okay. Alright. So you've mentioned that after
the long journey, say more about what you're doing now. You said this is your
passion. Say tell us more about what you're doing currently. I
was an associate professor at the business school here, and
(05:14):
I resigned in order to, well, I became a
mother. So that was, like, a very big decision factor
in in everything I did at the time. And I
started a company called Moda Metier, which is
a consultancy working with fashion and luxury
brands. And I'm also an entrepreneurship expert
(05:36):
at University of Oxford where I work with startups and
advise startups and basically people
who students who have an idea for a business,
but they end up making it into a reality.
I wrote two books in the last six years, even less,
less than that. One was called Fashion Entrepreneurship, Creation
(05:59):
of the Global Fashion Business, and the second one is called
Pioneers. In a nutshell, that's what I'm doing at the
moment. Okay. I mean, there's so much. Right now, my brain
was just, like, sorting through, like, 10 questions that came at the
same time. So I'm trying to now get them back focused in.
Alright. Because I have two that are competing right off the top of my
(06:21):
head. But let let me say what I noticed so far. The through line
through your journey that you shared already, entrepreneurship has
been there throughout the way, from your early years through the trials
and then your your family's business. And then as you
go on in both of your books that you mentioned feature or
highlight entrepreneurship, and you've done your own version. So
(06:43):
because that's the theme that that's jumping out at me, I'll tell
all those other 10 questions to hold on.
Hold on and let's talk about this topic of entrepreneurship.
Okay. So now when you are think about in your
early early development, I know the parents had the
business. Was there a time when you thought about yourself as
(07:05):
being in business? I mean, when you were a little girl, a little neary, was
there anything about business that was on your mind? Because I see it's it came
through later in your life. Not really. Actually, my parents
didn't even have the business because we were born in
communism in Bulgaria, so you were not allowed to have a business.
And we were ethnic minorities, and that meant
(07:27):
in nineteen eighties, Bulgarian government carried
out an ethnic assimilation campaign against
our own ethnicity. Our names were changed. We were not
allowed to practice our religion or culture.
But because we were ethnic minorities, you were also
not allowed access to higher education.
(07:51):
You don't have the same opportunities as
other people would necessarily. And in an indirect
way, entrepreneurship was there because my
family was very poor. So they had to
find ways to make a living in a way that will
allow them to not be dependent only on the communist government.
(08:13):
My father would make garage doors for our neighbors
and other people and make additional money. He worked in
construction. My grandfather carried cement,
with his, horse carriage. You know, we did he didn't have a
car. So in some ways, entrepreneurship
was always there. And for me, I think we
(08:35):
became and this is something that is very much discussed in the
immigrant entrepreneurship literature as well because
immigrants are more likely to become entrepreneurs because
they don't necessarily have access or resources
that other local people would do. So when we immigrated,
when we became refugees in Turkey, we had only
(08:58):
two suitcases to our name, nothing else. After the
refugee camp, we found, my father
managed to track down a long lost aunt who was living in
Istanbul. She opened her doors to us. My
parents worked in many different jobs trying to
make money in any way, shape, or or
(09:20):
form. And in the end, they become
entrepreneurs because there are not opportunities
available to them to have paying jobs that
will allow them to rent a home and so on.
So my dad I mean, this is very much early days,
but he became an illegal cab driver. I'm not,
(09:42):
promoting that to, you know, to be the case. But you try
to do whatever is possible in order to make a
living and earn a living. So entrepreneurship
was there, but not in this necessarily
formal way in the early days. But it was always there.
You are right. Makes sense. And, I mean, that's
(10:05):
amazing. Like, even with your father, they saw a need back then.
Garage doors, kind of looked around and said, where's the need and how can I
serve? Even though we can't do it in the ways that the government would
allow. So that's amazing. How old were you when when the
family was in the refugee camp? 11 years old. 11. So you were
very young? Yes. Very young, and we were there several months.
(10:26):
And then we moved to our aunt's home
for two two more months two, three months. And then
my parents managed to rent an apartment
in a very rundown area, very rundown apartment
with no heating. It it was very challenging
days, I have to say. Very challenging, but it made me who
(10:48):
I am. Yeah. And you now look how many people you're helping with your
story, what you've learned in your own resilience, and now you talk about and
teach and help others and write about resilience. So hopefully,
all that, you can see that all that you, that hardship has not
been in vain because now you're carrying it on to help others. Absolutely.
Yeah. And so when you, when you started in Miami, let's,
(11:11):
we're moving forward, moving forward. So you were just 11. We were just talking around
that time. Now we're skipping up to when you were in Miami, and you talked
about education. So how'd you what what made you go to
Miami? What was the circumstance around that move? Very If you wanna call it a
move. Yeah. Yes. So I remember standing at
the border with two suitcases to our name and
(11:34):
making a decision that I have to get a good education.
The way out of this will be if I get a good education.
For me to have a good life, I need to go to university.
Nobody in my family has a university degree. The
highest degree is the one my father had, and that's from a
(11:54):
technical high school. You know, it's not it's not a
university. And this was my
North Star when we were in Turkey in those early
years because no matter how difficult the circumstances
were, I was bullied at school, but almost like it was
one thing that allowed me to just keep moving forward
(12:17):
because I knew I am going to I have to get a
good education. And I talk about this in my
book and the failure. One of the principles
when it comes to build building businesses that last is about
reframing failure. And I failed at the age of
18 to get into Turkish university, And your first
(12:39):
failure hits you very hard. And as human beings, we
are it's in our DNA. We don't like to
fail. And we remember failure much more acutely than we will
remember our successes. So in that
moment, I think I have failed.
And what I'm but immediately my next thought
(13:01):
was, what do I have to do now? What is my next
step? Because I don't want to wait another year. And
I found an agency in Istanbul that was helping
graduates to go abroad. And there was a lovely woman who
looked at my degree. I was a valedictorian. I didn't
even have a a minus.
(13:24):
So yes. So I I was a very good student. Congratulations.
That's what what I was focused on. And
then she basically told me how it's
possible to do it. I took my SATs and TOEFL and
all the exams. I did everything without telling
my parents. And she also I managed to get
(13:46):
financial aid and got into the honors
program of University of Miami. And the the reason
why I chose University of Miami is because they said that I can
start immediately. I can start immediately. I don't have to
wait another year. I don't have to wait for another college
year to start. So I thought, you know, there
(14:09):
were other options that there were other schools that I got into in
UK and in US, but that's the reason
why I went to University of Miami. Hey. So you you
just took the one that was available first to you, and that was the one
that was available first, and you started because education was so
important to you. So that was a huge accomplishment. A
(14:30):
huge accomplishment. Okay. So now you're in, you're in college.
We're just kind of going through your journey, going through your kind of career journey
here. Alright. So you're in college and when you
were in college, what were you thinking? Did you have an idea of what kind
of work you wanted to do or were you there to just explore? Oh, no.
I was not there to explore. I kinda had had a
(14:51):
feeling that you had a plan from early, early years, and you
were sticking to it. But, anyway, let's hear. I was there to
study business because I wanted to know how
at the age of 16 back in Turkey, I worked as a translator
to leather producers, taking them to Italy,
and really learned about leather manufacturing and so
(15:14):
on. And I wanted to, again, coming
have having this immigrant background, I want to have a
better life, better finances, and I do
not want myself to live in poverty or my family to
live in poverty. I was very focused on learning how
businesses were created and what creates
(15:36):
iconic businesses, what creates businesses that last.
So you are seeing now the title of my book, but
the foundation of that started at the at a very
early age. I was very curious to know
how is it that Procter and Gamble lost? How is it that we know
the name of Chanel, but not necessarily of Paul
(15:59):
Poiret, let's say, or Charles Worth?
So what is it that some brands lost, some
businesses lost, but others don't? And it was
I graduated in two and a half years, but in my
very last in order to have a departmental honors, I
needed to write a thesis or a business
(16:21):
plan. So I chose to write a business plan, and that's the
business plan that became our business today. That's
amazing. That's amazing. Yeah.
If you think about it, you probably are just going through it and not even
noticing, but I just want to pause here to recognize
how amazing that is and that you've been thinking about this for a
(16:43):
long time. And we, the readers now of your
book, will get the benefit of all those years of thinking
and working. So now that I mentioned the book, let's talk about that a little
bit. Tell us the main the main premise of the book. The main
premise is I started with the question because,
as I said, I'm very curious to understand what what is
(17:06):
business longevity? What creates a business that lasts?
And when we look at the literature, I actually
was stopped in my tracks by a statistic that
I read about a year ago, which was nearly
50% of Fortune 500 companies are started
by immigrants. 80% of
(17:28):
unicorn businesses, billion dollar startups have
a founder or an executive who is an immigrant. These are
exceptional numbers. Statistically, immigrant
founded businesses last longer than their counterparts.
But I thought to myself, no one in the literature has asked the
question, why are immigrant founded businesses
(17:50):
lasting longer? Why are there most more successful?
Because in my PhD, I focused on ethnic and
immigrant entrepreneurship as one of my topics. So
you have a lot of focus on immigrants are more
likely to become entrepreneurs. So that's what everyone
seems to have asked, but nobody asked why is it
(18:14):
that they are starting these incredibly successful
businesses. So that's how I started
to write, to research, and,
create the book I created. And that's what the book
fundamentally, that's what the question the book is answering,
and that's what the book is helping others to do.
(18:36):
Now I have been hearing from readers who and the
book is not written for immigrants. Because I want to
be very clear about that. I wrote the book. I use immigrants
as examples, but I wrote the book for anyone
who wants to think differently about their life and business.
I'm hearing from readers, and it makes me very happy because
(18:59):
they are saying these principles can also apply to my
life. And that's the biggest compliment. I can
imagine just hearing that feedback from others, especially
after this is a work that's a culmination of years and years, even
though not officially, but years and years of thinking about this
question and how the question developed over time. Alright,
(19:21):
so, let me just ask you one more question about the book, and then we'll
go back to your career journey. Alright, so the book is eight principles.
What would you say has been the biggest surprise to
you? Because you've been thinking about this for a long time. So now when you
come to this work, what was the biggest surprise that you learned
that you kinda really kind of like, wow, I didn't expect that. This I
(19:43):
love this question because it was in November as I'm
coming to the end of my writing. I've written the
principles, and one common almost
like the glue that binds all the principles together is
kindness. I just thought without kindness, you cannot
practice any of the principles. You have to have that.
(20:06):
But then I am in a hotel room in Washington. The election
is happening in few days. It's November
3. I was there for a conference. And then I'm
in the and I was about to give a webinar,
actually. That's why I'm by myself, and I'm
still in the writing process of the conclusion. As I
(20:28):
look at everything that's around me, all my, you
know, Word documents, I stood up and I
said, oh my god. I was stopped in my
tracks because I said, it will it is never it
was never about you. It is never about
you. All the entrepreneurs I talk to,
(20:50):
that's the most surprising element in my research, in my
book. Because when they were building the businesses,
it was never about them. They never thought of
themselves as the sun in the middle, and they are this
leader that is shining out
their, you know, intelligence and benevolence
(21:12):
to others, but they are thinking of others
first. And that's what creates business longevity.
And even in the book, I start with that and say we need to
rethink what business longevity is even about. Because
when you look at the classics of business longevity, the
businesses they studied didn't necessarily last
(21:36):
or even in Japan. The longest lasting businesses are in
Japan, and even they end at some point.
So forget businesses, you can live for hundred
hundred and twenty years, but what have you done with your
life? What is the impact? What is the impact of your
life, of your business? And you will never be in
(21:58):
the equation. It will always be about others and
what you give. Makes sense. That makes sense. And it's good
to hear. Alright. So now with your work, I'm imagining
it's for others. Would you say that you have purpose
in the work that you're doing now? Yes. I do. Yes. Is it
something that you set out to have, or did it just
(22:20):
happen? You you woke up and realized, this feels good. This is
right. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. Or did you kinda stumble across
it? I think it was something that I paid attention
to because I have been quite intentional from
a very early age. Why am I here? What is
my purpose? I wanted to ask that question myself
(22:43):
and answer that question. And how I came
upon it is by paying attention to my feelings, to
my thoughts, to to to my being, to
my soul. And it was when I felt
that lit lights me up, and I feel alive, and
I just almost become animated. And that's when I
(23:05):
knew that's my purpose. And it is
inspiring others, in day to day, it looks
like speaking, public speaking, just sharing.
And that's that's how I I sense it. That makes
sense. Was there ever a time you know, you said you had that
question and you were kinda thinking about it, but was there a time when it
(23:27):
was you were aware that you didn't have it and that you
wanted more meaning and purpose? Was there any frustration about
not having that? 100%. And
it was and it was when I didn't listen
to myself. I was too afraid to even
listen to myself and because of what I would
(23:50):
hear. And once I was able to hear it,
it took courage to voice my needs and stand up for
myself. And that's when everything changed for me.
I think that is really gonna speak to a lot of people that
issue that you just talked about. Can you say a little more about that? You
said was there something in particular that you knew that yourself was
(24:12):
telling you that you were ignoring? Absolutely. So this will
sound maybe funny because I talked about building a business
with my family, and I'm very proud of the work
we we have done. It's a blessing, and it has been a
blessing to countless other people. But I also
because of my family and my background, I have
(24:34):
this obligation. You've you have this sense of I am the good
daughter. I have obligation towards my family.
My father had an obligation to his family and so did
his father, and now it's my turn. And it's
very difficult to, especially in my culture, to
say, I'm not doing that. I am not doing that
(24:57):
because it's like a domino effect. Once you say that,
there are things that will shift and takes a lot of courage
in some in some way to to say that. So
around the age of 35, I remember very clearly sitting
at the kids' table at my friend's wedding in
Turkey and just realizing
(25:20):
I'm living my life for someone else, and I have
to stop. So I went to my family, and I
basically told them I'm going to take a step back from the business.
Here are the credit cards, and and I imagine
myself if I'm on a remote island,
desert island, and I have to make a living, what
(25:42):
can I do? I will teach. That's what I can do, and
that's what I like doing. So I started applying now.
I'm getting back to academia, polished up my
CV and sent it out to all the universities in the world. I
was single at the time, so there was nothing to hold me
back. I got a response from a university in
(26:04):
France and became an associate professor here
in France. But after that, my entire
life changed in a good way. It changed
because I started to live from my truth, and I
started to live from my power and started to
speak up. And that's when I started to live my life
(26:27):
that I was supposed to live. Yes. Yes. That makes a
lot of sense. I'm really struck. I wanna go back to that moment when
you talked about being at the wedding and you had that
insight. It's a little bit before the time where you had
like what made it what do you think allowed you to have
that insight that day? Like I'm going to be
(26:49):
true to who I am. Can you recall, did something lead up to it?
Was there a final straw so to speak? Was there I just
like, what helped you get there? I do. And I've been trying to
actually identify the book, but I was reading a book on the beach
that day. And it's either I'm thinking it's either
David Ricco, r I c c
(27:12):
h o is the last name. He has written many good
books, but he has, like, he has a
really interesting book about accepting.
And I have gotten into meditation into
just not in a very deep way, but listening
to my to myself. And meditation was helping
(27:34):
me a lot with that. I had gone at the time to Eckhart
Tolle seminars in London. I've been reading a lot of
Eckhart Tolle and just pausing
and reflecting. That's what brought me there. And I think that
day on the beach, I was reading a book by David Ricco.
And probably I'm thinking, because I think a lot back
(27:57):
about back to that moment at the wedding, what is it
that made me have that realization and try to
trace it back myself? But when it's happening in the moment,
I wasn't thinking this is a transformative,
insightful moment that I'm having. Yes. That makes
sense. So before that moment, you
(28:20):
had been there had been a a period of time when you started to
practice listening to yourself in other ways through the reading and
meditating. And so Yes. That happened to be when the answer came at the
wedding. Makes sense. That makes sense. Alright. So now you
know the podcast is leadership purpose. Alright. And so the the
podcast is for what I call high achieving women.
(28:42):
And my definition of high achieving women, because we might have different
definitions, whoever's listening, She's responsible. She's
ambitious. She's good at a couple things.
People come to her in her professional life, you know,
for advice, whether it's related to what she's working on or
not. And by the way, this definition can be some or all of these
(29:05):
make up what I think of a high achieving woman. In her personal
life, family, community, neighbors, relatives, whatever,
they come to her for advice or she's the one that they feel like she
could they she might know whatever the answer is to the thing. So she's
doing all these things, and she's really responsible. And
she's gotten to a point in her life where she feels
(29:28):
like there's something missing. Like, is there there
must be more to this in terms of her work, not material
things, but she's feeling like more meaning,
a missing meaning and purpose. Something's just not there.
And she's already successful in what she's
doing, that piece is missing, something that makes it
(29:50):
more meaningful in this sense of purpose. She may be in a
business that's established and successful, or she may be in a career
where she's in a leadership role or higher.
Alright. So now with her in mind Mhmm. What's something from
your either your personal experience or your professional
experience that you could say to her just to give her some
(30:12):
words of encouragement? I would say keep going.
And even if there will be detours in your life
and there may be many, trust that you are on
the right path and you are going to get there. Okay.
Trust. Because we hear we heard from your story, got to the point
where you could finally trust yourself. So that that's
(30:35):
wonderful words of wisdom. Alright. Now before we tell people how they can be
in touch with you, is there anything that I didn't get to ask you about
that you kinda wanted to talk about? Or did something pop in your mind while
we were talking? You're like, one more thing, one more thing. But if not, we
can just tell people how they can be in touch with you. I think,
maybe, you know, to listen to your voice if you if
(30:58):
there is many ways meditation I talked about, but I do
something called morning pages every every morning where
as soon as I wake up, I will just it's from Julia Cameron.
I will just write three or four pages or as much
as I want. And this helps me actually
start the day, and it can be different for anyone else.
(31:20):
But having a morning practice can be very beneficial,
and that's what I I was going to add to listening to the
voice and how to hear what what you want.
Yes. I love that. It is a a really helpful way to listen to
yourself. Julia Cameron in her book The Artist Way for
people who might want to get it. That's right. Yeah, I did those morning pages
(31:42):
for a year, so I know exactly what you're talking about. So thank you for
sharing that with us. All right, so I imagine peoplewell, where can they hear more
about you? They might want to know, like, how can I get the book or
or how can I just be in touch or follow you? How can they connect
with you? The book is available anywhere books are sold,
bookshop.org, Amazon, independent bookstores,
(32:02):
anywhere. I am on Instagram with
professor dot neri, and you can find me on LinkedIn, Neri
Karra Sillaman. I would love to connect with you. Okay. And we'll be
sure to have that in the show notes. Dr. Neri, thank you so much for
being here and sharing your amazing story and the wisdom
that you've gleaned from all you've been through. Really appreciate that. Thank
(32:25):
you, Robin. It was an honor to be on your podcast. Thank
you. Okay, everyone, I would love to hear your response to the
episode or any thoughts you have about the podcast.
I'm on social media, all the channels, but I spend most of my
time on LinkedIn. Go over, connect with me,
request a connection request, go ahead and send me a message, and let me know
(32:47):
what you think about the podcast, at Robin L.
Owens PhD, at Robin L. Owens PhD.
And until next time, this is Dr. Robin.
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Leadership Purpose
with Dr. Robin podcast. If you enjoyed it, head on
over and rate and subscribe so you never miss an
(33:09):
episode. New episodes drop every week, and
I can't wait to hang out with you again soon.
Meanwhile, this is Dr Robin
signing off. See you next time.
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin l Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership
(00:47):
Purpose with Doctor. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here
and listening into the podcast. I really appreciate you for listening in. I
know I say it all the time every episode, and I'll continue to say it
because the appreciation is real. We couldn't have a podcast
without you. And because you've been such faithful listeners, we've
been ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts
(01:10):
globally according to Listen Notes. So thank you for listening in.
And would you do us a favor and go ahead and submit a review of
the podcast? It'll help us keep it going. And share the podcast with a
friend. Alright. So now that we've gotten that out of the way, and I hope
you really take that to heart, I'm really looking forward to my conversation
today with Doctor. Neri Kara Silliman.
(01:32):
Now let me tell you a little bit about Doctor. Neri. She is a
globally recognized entrepreneur, thought leader, and
author. She's named to the thinkers 50 radar
list. She is the founder of a luxury leather goods
brand and sought after advisor to global leaders.
In her book entitled Pioneers, and those who are on
(01:54):
YouTube, you might be able to see it. She has an image up on the
screen now. But the title of the book is Pioneers, eight
principles of business longevity from immigrant
entrepreneurs. And the book is a transformative guide to
building businesses that last, and it's inspired by stories of
resilience and purpose. And it features insights from
(02:15):
founders of Chobani, Duolingo, Calendly, and
others. And her book bridges passion, purpose,
and practicality for lasting impact. Welcome,
doctor Neri Kara Silliman. Thank you, Robin. It's so nice
to see you. No so nice to meet you. Thank you for inviting me.
I'm so glad you're here and that you're taking time at the end
(02:37):
of really at the end of your night, 9PM in
Paris. Thank you for staying up late and staying alert to
have this conversation. Alright. So let's just jump right in. You heard
me read your introduction and a little bit about you, but why don't you tell
us in your own words a little bit more two things
about who you are. You can say anything about who you are and then about
(02:59):
the work you do. So it's quite a long story, and I'll
try to keep it as concise as possible. Yeah. Give us the
short version, and then I'll come back to it later because I wanna kinda do
it in order. Sure. So I was born in
Bulgaria during communism to Turkish ethnic
minority. And in 1989, we were
(03:20):
asked to leave the country, and 360,000
of Bulgarians of Turkish ethnicity like me had to
leave the country. At the age of 11, I became a refugee with my
parents and nine nine year old brother. We first lived
in a refugee camp in a tent, set up by
the Red Cross. And then I went to University
(03:43):
of Miami, did my bachelor's degree there because education
is what drove me forward. And in those very challenging
days and times, it became my North Star.
I did start our family business of
luxury leather goods products when I was 21 years old with
my parents and my family. And we
(04:06):
produce today, our business is twenty five years
old, and we produce for some of the
leading luxury leather goods in the world. They are based
in Italy. But because of my contract, I can't
reveal their names. Although in some podcasts, I did reveal
them. And I have a PhD from University
(04:28):
of Cambridge, so I bridge both academia and entrepreneurship.
And I have been wearing those two hats for several years.
But in the last six or seven years, I
have taken a step back from my family business where my parents
run the business. And instead, I focused on what I love, which
is speaking, advising. And very recently, I
(04:51):
wrote a book that you mentioned, Pioneers. I love
that. Everything about that journey. Wow. I'm sure there's a lot
to unpack. Okay. Alright. So you've mentioned that after
the long journey, say more about what you're doing now. You said this is your
passion. Say tell us more about what you're doing currently. I
was an associate professor at the business school here, and
(05:14):
I resigned in order to, well, I became a
mother. So that was, like, a very big decision factor
in in everything I did at the time. And I
started a company called Moda Metier, which is
a consultancy working with fashion and luxury
brands. And I'm also an entrepreneurship expert
(05:36):
at University of Oxford where I work with startups and
advise startups and basically people
who students who have an idea for a business,
but they end up making it into a reality.
I wrote two books in the last six years, even less,
less than that. One was called Fashion Entrepreneurship, Creation
(05:59):
of the Global Fashion Business, and the second one is called
Pioneers. In a nutshell, that's what I'm doing at the
moment. Okay. I mean, there's so much. Right now, my brain
was just, like, sorting through, like, 10 questions that came at the
same time. So I'm trying to now get them back focused in.
Alright. Because I have two that are competing right off the top of my
(06:21):
head. But let let me say what I noticed so far. The through line
through your journey that you shared already, entrepreneurship has
been there throughout the way, from your early years through the trials
and then your your family's business. And then as you
go on in both of your books that you mentioned feature or
highlight entrepreneurship, and you've done your own version. So
(06:43):
because that's the theme that that's jumping out at me, I'll tell
all those other 10 questions to hold on.
Hold on and let's talk about this topic of entrepreneurship.
Okay. So now when you are think about in your
early early development, I know the parents had the
business. Was there a time when you thought about yourself as
(07:05):
being in business? I mean, when you were a little girl, a little neary, was
there anything about business that was on your mind? Because I see it's it came
through later in your life. Not really. Actually, my parents
didn't even have the business because we were born in
communism in Bulgaria, so you were not allowed to have a business.
And we were ethnic minorities, and that meant
(07:27):
in nineteen eighties, Bulgarian government carried
out an ethnic assimilation campaign against
our own ethnicity. Our names were changed. We were not
allowed to practice our religion or culture.
But because we were ethnic minorities, you were also
not allowed access to higher education.
(07:51):
You don't have the same opportunities as
other people would necessarily. And in an indirect
way, entrepreneurship was there because my
family was very poor. So they had to
find ways to make a living in a way that will
allow them to not be dependent only on the communist government.
(08:13):
My father would make garage doors for our neighbors
and other people and make additional money. He worked in
construction. My grandfather carried cement,
with his, horse carriage. You know, we did he didn't have a
car. So in some ways, entrepreneurship
was always there. And for me, I think we
(08:35):
became and this is something that is very much discussed in the
immigrant entrepreneurship literature as well because
immigrants are more likely to become entrepreneurs because
they don't necessarily have access or resources
that other local people would do. So when we immigrated,
when we became refugees in Turkey, we had only
(08:58):
two suitcases to our name, nothing else. After the
refugee camp, we found, my father
managed to track down a long lost aunt who was living in
Istanbul. She opened her doors to us. My
parents worked in many different jobs trying to
make money in any way, shape, or or
(09:20):
form. And in the end, they become
entrepreneurs because there are not opportunities
available to them to have paying jobs that
will allow them to rent a home and so on.
So my dad I mean, this is very much early days,
but he became an illegal cab driver. I'm not,
(09:42):
promoting that to, you know, to be the case. But you try
to do whatever is possible in order to make a
living and earn a living. So entrepreneurship
was there, but not in this necessarily
formal way in the early days. But it was always there.
You are right. Makes sense. And, I mean, that's
(10:05):
amazing. Like, even with your father, they saw a need back then.
Garage doors, kind of looked around and said, where's the need and how can I
serve? Even though we can't do it in the ways that the government would
allow. So that's amazing. How old were you when when the
family was in the refugee camp? 11 years old. 11. So you were
very young? Yes. Very young, and we were there several months.
(10:26):
And then we moved to our aunt's home
for two two more months two, three months. And then
my parents managed to rent an apartment
in a very rundown area, very rundown apartment
with no heating. It it was very challenging
days, I have to say. Very challenging, but it made me who
(10:48):
I am. Yeah. And you now look how many people you're helping with your
story, what you've learned in your own resilience, and now you talk about and
teach and help others and write about resilience. So hopefully,
all that, you can see that all that you, that hardship has not
been in vain because now you're carrying it on to help others. Absolutely.
Yeah. And so when you, when you started in Miami, let's,
(11:11):
we're moving forward, moving forward. So you were just 11. We were just talking around
that time. Now we're skipping up to when you were in Miami, and you talked
about education. So how'd you what what made you go to
Miami? What was the circumstance around that move? Very If you wanna call it a
move. Yeah. Yes. So I remember standing at
the border with two suitcases to our name and
(11:34):
making a decision that I have to get a good education.
The way out of this will be if I get a good education.
For me to have a good life, I need to go to university.
Nobody in my family has a university degree. The
highest degree is the one my father had, and that's from a
(11:54):
technical high school. You know, it's not it's not a
university. And this was my
North Star when we were in Turkey in those early
years because no matter how difficult the circumstances
were, I was bullied at school, but almost like it was
one thing that allowed me to just keep moving forward
(12:17):
because I knew I am going to I have to get a
good education. And I talk about this in my
book and the failure. One of the principles
when it comes to build building businesses that last is about
reframing failure. And I failed at the age of
18 to get into Turkish university, And your first
(12:39):
failure hits you very hard. And as human beings, we
are it's in our DNA. We don't like to
fail. And we remember failure much more acutely than we will
remember our successes. So in that
moment, I think I have failed.
And what I'm but immediately my next thought
(13:01):
was, what do I have to do now? What is my next
step? Because I don't want to wait another year. And
I found an agency in Istanbul that was helping
graduates to go abroad. And there was a lovely woman who
looked at my degree. I was a valedictorian. I didn't
even have a a minus.
(13:24):
So yes. So I I was a very good student. Congratulations.
That's what what I was focused on. And
then she basically told me how it's
possible to do it. I took my SATs and TOEFL and
all the exams. I did everything without telling
my parents. And she also I managed to get
(13:46):
financial aid and got into the honors
program of University of Miami. And the the reason
why I chose University of Miami is because they said that I can
start immediately. I can start immediately. I don't have to
wait another year. I don't have to wait for another college
year to start. So I thought, you know, there
(14:09):
were other options that there were other schools that I got into in
UK and in US, but that's the reason
why I went to University of Miami. Hey. So you you
just took the one that was available first to you, and that was the one
that was available first, and you started because education was so
important to you. So that was a huge accomplishment. A
(14:30):
huge accomplishment. Okay. So now you're in, you're in college.
We're just kind of going through your journey, going through your kind of career journey
here. Alright. So you're in college and when you
were in college, what were you thinking? Did you have an idea of what kind
of work you wanted to do or were you there to just explore? Oh, no.
I was not there to explore. I kinda had had a
(14:51):
feeling that you had a plan from early, early years, and you
were sticking to it. But, anyway, let's hear. I was there to
study business because I wanted to know how
at the age of 16 back in Turkey, I worked as a translator
to leather producers, taking them to Italy,
and really learned about leather manufacturing and so
(15:14):
on. And I wanted to, again, coming
have having this immigrant background, I want to have a
better life, better finances, and I do
not want myself to live in poverty or my family to
live in poverty. I was very focused on learning how
businesses were created and what creates
(15:36):
iconic businesses, what creates businesses that last.
So you are seeing now the title of my book, but
the foundation of that started at the at a very
early age. I was very curious to know
how is it that Procter and Gamble lost? How is it that we know
the name of Chanel, but not necessarily of Paul
(15:59):
Poiret, let's say, or Charles Worth?
So what is it that some brands lost, some
businesses lost, but others don't? And it was
I graduated in two and a half years, but in my
very last in order to have a departmental honors, I
needed to write a thesis or a business
(16:21):
plan. So I chose to write a business plan, and that's the
business plan that became our business today. That's
amazing. That's amazing. Yeah.
If you think about it, you probably are just going through it and not even
noticing, but I just want to pause here to recognize
how amazing that is and that you've been thinking about this for a
(16:43):
long time. And we, the readers now of your
book, will get the benefit of all those years of thinking
and working. So now that I mentioned the book, let's talk about that a little
bit. Tell us the main the main premise of the book. The main
premise is I started with the question because,
as I said, I'm very curious to understand what what is
(17:06):
business longevity? What creates a business that lasts?
And when we look at the literature, I actually
was stopped in my tracks by a statistic that
I read about a year ago, which was nearly
50% of Fortune 500 companies are started
by immigrants. 80% of
(17:28):
unicorn businesses, billion dollar startups have
a founder or an executive who is an immigrant. These are
exceptional numbers. Statistically, immigrant
founded businesses last longer than their counterparts.
But I thought to myself, no one in the literature has asked the
question, why are immigrant founded businesses
(17:50):
lasting longer? Why are there most more successful?
Because in my PhD, I focused on ethnic and
immigrant entrepreneurship as one of my topics. So
you have a lot of focus on immigrants are more
likely to become entrepreneurs. So that's what everyone
seems to have asked, but nobody asked why is it
(18:14):
that they are starting these incredibly successful
businesses. So that's how I started
to write, to research, and,
create the book I created. And that's what the book
fundamentally, that's what the question the book is answering,
and that's what the book is helping others to do.
(18:36):
Now I have been hearing from readers who and the
book is not written for immigrants. Because I want to
be very clear about that. I wrote the book. I use immigrants
as examples, but I wrote the book for anyone
who wants to think differently about their life and business.
I'm hearing from readers, and it makes me very happy because
(18:59):
they are saying these principles can also apply to my
life. And that's the biggest compliment. I can
imagine just hearing that feedback from others, especially
after this is a work that's a culmination of years and years, even
though not officially, but years and years of thinking about this
question and how the question developed over time. Alright,
(19:21):
so, let me just ask you one more question about the book, and then we'll
go back to your career journey. Alright, so the book is eight principles.
What would you say has been the biggest surprise to
you? Because you've been thinking about this for a long time. So now when you
come to this work, what was the biggest surprise that you learned
that you kinda really kind of like, wow, I didn't expect that. This I
(19:43):
love this question because it was in November as I'm
coming to the end of my writing. I've written the
principles, and one common almost
like the glue that binds all the principles together is
kindness. I just thought without kindness, you cannot
practice any of the principles. You have to have that.
(20:06):
But then I am in a hotel room in Washington. The election
is happening in few days. It's November
3. I was there for a conference. And then I'm
in the and I was about to give a webinar,
actually. That's why I'm by myself, and I'm
still in the writing process of the conclusion. As I
(20:28):
look at everything that's around me, all my, you
know, Word documents, I stood up and I
said, oh my god. I was stopped in my
tracks because I said, it will it is never it
was never about you. It is never about
you. All the entrepreneurs I talk to,
(20:50):
that's the most surprising element in my research, in my
book. Because when they were building the businesses,
it was never about them. They never thought of
themselves as the sun in the middle, and they are this
leader that is shining out
their, you know, intelligence and benevolence
(21:12):
to others, but they are thinking of others
first. And that's what creates business longevity.
And even in the book, I start with that and say we need to
rethink what business longevity is even about. Because
when you look at the classics of business longevity, the
businesses they studied didn't necessarily last
(21:36):
or even in Japan. The longest lasting businesses are in
Japan, and even they end at some point.
So forget businesses, you can live for hundred
hundred and twenty years, but what have you done with your
life? What is the impact? What is the impact of your
life, of your business? And you will never be in
(21:58):
the equation. It will always be about others and
what you give. Makes sense. That makes sense. And it's good
to hear. Alright. So now with your work, I'm imagining
it's for others. Would you say that you have purpose
in the work that you're doing now? Yes. I do. Yes. Is it
something that you set out to have, or did it just
(22:20):
happen? You you woke up and realized, this feels good. This is
right. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. Or did you kinda stumble across
it? I think it was something that I paid attention
to because I have been quite intentional from
a very early age. Why am I here? What is
my purpose? I wanted to ask that question myself
(22:43):
and answer that question. And how I came
upon it is by paying attention to my feelings, to
my thoughts, to to to my being, to
my soul. And it was when I felt
that lit lights me up, and I feel alive, and
I just almost become animated. And that's when I
(23:05):
knew that's my purpose. And it is
inspiring others, in day to day, it looks
like speaking, public speaking, just sharing.
And that's that's how I I sense it. That makes
sense. Was there ever a time you know, you said you had that
question and you were kinda thinking about it, but was there a time when it
(23:27):
was you were aware that you didn't have it and that you
wanted more meaning and purpose? Was there any frustration about
not having that? 100%. And
it was and it was when I didn't listen
to myself. I was too afraid to even
listen to myself and because of what I would
(23:50):
hear. And once I was able to hear it,
it took courage to voice my needs and stand up for
myself. And that's when everything changed for me.
I think that is really gonna speak to a lot of people that
issue that you just talked about. Can you say a little more about that? You
said was there something in particular that you knew that yourself was
(24:12):
telling you that you were ignoring? Absolutely. So this will
sound maybe funny because I talked about building a business
with my family, and I'm very proud of the work
we we have done. It's a blessing, and it has been a
blessing to countless other people. But I also
because of my family and my background, I have
(24:34):
this obligation. You've you have this sense of I am the good
daughter. I have obligation towards my family.
My father had an obligation to his family and so did
his father, and now it's my turn. And it's
very difficult to, especially in my culture, to
say, I'm not doing that. I am not doing that
(24:57):
because it's like a domino effect. Once you say that,
there are things that will shift and takes a lot of courage
in some in some way to to say that. So
around the age of 35, I remember very clearly sitting
at the kids' table at my friend's wedding in
Turkey and just realizing
(25:20):
I'm living my life for someone else, and I have
to stop. So I went to my family, and I
basically told them I'm going to take a step back from the business.
Here are the credit cards, and and I imagine
myself if I'm on a remote island,
desert island, and I have to make a living, what
(25:42):
can I do? I will teach. That's what I can do, and
that's what I like doing. So I started applying now.
I'm getting back to academia, polished up my
CV and sent it out to all the universities in the world. I
was single at the time, so there was nothing to hold me
back. I got a response from a university in
(26:04):
France and became an associate professor here
in France. But after that, my entire
life changed in a good way. It changed
because I started to live from my truth, and I
started to live from my power and started to
speak up. And that's when I started to live my life
(26:27):
that I was supposed to live. Yes. Yes. That makes a
lot of sense. I'm really struck. I wanna go back to that moment when
you talked about being at the wedding and you had that
insight. It's a little bit before the time where you had
like what made it what do you think allowed you to have
that insight that day? Like I'm going to be
(26:49):
true to who I am. Can you recall, did something lead up to it?
Was there a final straw so to speak? Was there I just
like, what helped you get there? I do. And I've been trying to
actually identify the book, but I was reading a book on the beach
that day. And it's either I'm thinking it's either
David Ricco, r I c c
(27:12):
h o is the last name. He has written many good
books, but he has, like, he has a
really interesting book about accepting.
And I have gotten into meditation into
just not in a very deep way, but listening
to my to myself. And meditation was helping
(27:34):
me a lot with that. I had gone at the time to Eckhart
Tolle seminars in London. I've been reading a lot of
Eckhart Tolle and just pausing
and reflecting. That's what brought me there. And I think that
day on the beach, I was reading a book by David Ricco.
And probably I'm thinking, because I think a lot back
(27:57):
about back to that moment at the wedding, what is it
that made me have that realization and try to
trace it back myself? But when it's happening in the moment,
I wasn't thinking this is a transformative,
insightful moment that I'm having. Yes. That makes
sense. So before that moment, you
(28:20):
had been there had been a a period of time when you started to
practice listening to yourself in other ways through the reading and
meditating. And so Yes. That happened to be when the answer came at the
wedding. Makes sense. That makes sense. Alright. So now you
know the podcast is leadership purpose. Alright. And so the the
podcast is for what I call high achieving women.
(28:42):
And my definition of high achieving women, because we might have different
definitions, whoever's listening, She's responsible. She's
ambitious. She's good at a couple things.
People come to her in her professional life, you know,
for advice, whether it's related to what she's working on or
not. And by the way, this definition can be some or all of these
(29:05):
make up what I think of a high achieving woman. In her personal
life, family, community, neighbors, relatives, whatever,
they come to her for advice or she's the one that they feel like she
could they she might know whatever the answer is to the thing. So she's
doing all these things, and she's really responsible. And
she's gotten to a point in her life where she feels
(29:28):
like there's something missing. Like, is there there
must be more to this in terms of her work, not material
things, but she's feeling like more meaning,
a missing meaning and purpose. Something's just not there.
And she's already successful in what she's
doing, that piece is missing, something that makes it
(29:50):
more meaningful in this sense of purpose. She may be in a
business that's established and successful, or she may be in a career
where she's in a leadership role or higher.
Alright. So now with her in mind Mhmm. What's something from
your either your personal experience or your professional
experience that you could say to her just to give her some
(30:12):
words of encouragement? I would say keep going.
And even if there will be detours in your life
and there may be many, trust that you are on
the right path and you are going to get there. Okay.
Trust. Because we hear we heard from your story, got to the point
where you could finally trust yourself. So that that's
(30:35):
wonderful words of wisdom. Alright. Now before we tell people how they can be
in touch with you, is there anything that I didn't get to ask you about
that you kinda wanted to talk about? Or did something pop in your mind while
we were talking? You're like, one more thing, one more thing. But if not, we
can just tell people how they can be in touch with you. I think,
maybe, you know, to listen to your voice if you if
(30:58):
there is many ways meditation I talked about, but I do
something called morning pages every every morning where
as soon as I wake up, I will just it's from Julia Cameron.
I will just write three or four pages or as much
as I want. And this helps me actually
start the day, and it can be different for anyone else.
(31:20):
But having a morning practice can be very beneficial,
and that's what I I was going to add to listening to the
voice and how to hear what what you want.
Yes. I love that. It is a a really helpful way to listen to
yourself. Julia Cameron in her book The Artist Way for
people who might want to get it. That's right. Yeah, I did those morning pages
(31:42):
for a year, so I know exactly what you're talking about. So thank you for
sharing that with us. All right, so I imagine peoplewell, where can they hear more
about you? They might want to know, like, how can I get the book or
or how can I just be in touch or follow you? How can they connect
with you? The book is available anywhere books are sold,
bookshop.org, Amazon, independent bookstores,
(32:02):
anywhere. I am on Instagram with
professor dot neri, and you can find me on LinkedIn, Neri
Karra Sillaman. I would love to connect with you. Okay. And we'll be
sure to have that in the show notes. Dr. Neri, thank you so much for
being here and sharing your amazing story and the wisdom
that you've gleaned from all you've been through. Really appreciate that. Thank
(32:25):
you, Robin. It was an honor to be on your podcast. Thank
you. Okay, everyone, I would love to hear your response to the
episode or any thoughts you have about the podcast.
I'm on social media, all the channels, but I spend most of my
time on LinkedIn. Go over, connect with me,
request a connection request, go ahead and send me a message, and let me know
(32:47):
what you think about the podcast, at Robin L.
Owens PhD, at Robin L. Owens PhD.
And until next time, this is Dr. Robin.
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Leadership Purpose
with Dr. Robin podcast. If you enjoyed it, head on
over and rate and subscribe so you never miss an
(33:09):
episode. New episodes drop every week, and
I can't wait to hang out with you again soon.
Meanwhile, this is Dr Robin
signing off. See you next time.
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