April 23, 2025 • 31 mins
This week’s “How She Finds Purpose” insight comes from Laura Zavelson. She says –
“My advice or my thought would be if you have any interest in entrepreneurship or any seed of an idea, honor that and explore it because there are a lot of different paths your life can take, and there are ways to derisk entrepreneurship and make it more of a calculated risk rather than something, you know, you're just jumping into the unknown. And especially if you have experience in networking and you're a natural leader like the women you described. But if there's a group of people you'd like to help and a problem that you can solve, there are ways to explore that that can help reduce the risk. And you might unlock some real freedom for yourself to do something that lights you up.”
Laura Zavelson is an MBA, a self-described corporate finance escapee turned serial entrepreneur, former professor of entrepreneurship, and business strategist. She helps Gen Xers - especially women - who’ve been laid off, pushed out, or burned out, turn their hard-earned experience into thriving coaching, consulting, or expert-based businesses.
With 25 years of entrepreneurial experience behind her, Laura is committed to helping women create financial stability, flexibility, and freedom in their next chapter.
Here are 3 reasons why you should listen to this episode:
-
If you’re a high-achieving woman in transition, Laura shares practical and relatable advice for starting something new - even if it’s been a while since you tried.
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You’ll learn why your career experience is more valuable than you think, and how it can be the foundation for a business that supports your life and values.
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Laura offers thoughtful encouragement for anyone who’s ever wondered, “Do I really have something to offer?” (Spoiler: Yes, you absolutely do.)
Connect with Laura at:
Website: https://laurazavelson.com/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC08dydudrKphIodKJAgdFLw
Would you prefer to watch or listen to the podcast on YouTube?
Head on over to https://www.youtube.com/@leadershippurposepodcast
Want to connect? Connect with Dr. Robin on
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinlowensphd/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robinlowensphd
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robinlowensphd/
Email: Robin@LeadershipPurposePodcast.com
Thank you for listening! Rate, review, & follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. Talk to you soon!
This episode was produced by Lynda, Podcast Manager for GenX Creative Entrepreneurs at https://www.ljscreativeservices.co.nz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Dr Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin L Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership
(00:47):
Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here and
you're listening to the podcast. I say it all the time. I'll say
it every time. I appreciate you for listening in. And because
you've been such faithful listeners to the podcast, you've helped us
get ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts
globally according to Listen Notes, so thank you for doing that.
(01:09):
And I ask you to help us keep it going. Rate, review,
subscribe to the podcast, and if you hear something you like, especially
take a moment to review the podcast. Really appreciate that.
Alright. Now, today, I'm talking with
Laura Zavelson. Now, let me tell you a little bit about Laura.
She's an MBA and she's a what she calls a corporate
(01:32):
finance escapee. I love that.
Turned serial entrepreneur, former professor of
entrepreneurship, and business strategist. She
helps Gen Xers who are laid off, pushed out, or
burned out. And she helps them capitalize
on their own experience to build businesses as coaches,
(01:55):
consultants, or independent experts. And she draws on twenty
five years of entrepreneurial experience to do this, and she's
committed to helping them have financial stability,
flexibility, and freedom. Welcome, Laura
Zavelson. Thank you so much for having me today. I'm so
glad you're here, and I can't wait to get into this conversation. We were on
(02:17):
a roll before we started recording. I know. This is gonna be
fun. Alright. But you heard me. Let's so people get a sense
of you beyond what I just read. Say a little
more about who you are and what you do, and
then we'll take it from there. Well, you know, I I think, your
introduction covered it pretty well. So right now, I'm a business
(02:40):
strategist, and I do focus on helping Gen X
women, either transition into entrepreneurship
or grow the businesses that they already have. And,
generally, I work with coaches and consultants because that is
one of the easiest transitions that women in
midlife can make because we already have so much experience.
(03:03):
And one of the things that just bugs me is
that so many corporations don't recognize that.
And so and and again, I it occurred to
me as I was creating this business that we had all these women with
all this talent and they were kind of getting, you know, put off in
the sidelines, but the talent they they had
(03:25):
and the the skills that they have aren't necessarily the same skills
you need to grow a business. And so that's where
I, I hope that I help people connect the dots. I
love that. And of course I would. How'd you come to this
work? Because that's very specific. Yeah. It's
interesting. So I used to primarily work with high growth start ups,
(03:46):
so, you know, more on the venture capital kind of side.
And during the pandemic, I started to see, you
know, there were massive layoffs. And I noticed, I
mean, I'm sure this went on before that, but I noticed that a lot of
these women were around my age. They were midlife, mid career. They
were getting laid off. They were trying to start businesses. They
(04:09):
they were deeply passionate about what they did, but they
were just getting stuck in some of the mechanics
to grow a business. And the thing about coaching and
consulting is that it's not like you're trying to
start something nobody's ever done before. Right? You're not try it's not like you're the
founder of Airbnb and you're trying to, like, make that happen for the first time.
(04:32):
Right? We know how to build coaching and consulting businesses.
And so that means that you can
develop a skill set that already exists
that will take some of the well, that should make your path shorter and less
frustrating. Yes. Okay. And so now let's get a
little, zero in on it a little more. Was
(04:54):
there a moment in time or an incident or a day or a
situation that said, you know, I'm really gonna do this now? I know you said
there were some changes, but what happened specifically, if
anything? Yeah. Well, you know, what happened was during the
pandemic, we were also isolated, and I joined
an online group of women who were looking for their next
(05:16):
chapter. And I was actually sort of looking for
my own next chapter. I had recently exited a
company, you know, helped I would came in as the adult supervision
of a it was a start up and helped them get some traction so
they could sell that company. I wasn't actually there for very long and that
that gig kind of wrapped itself up. And I was kind of trying to figure
(05:38):
out what I was gonna do next when the pandemic hit. And I
was really, you know, in a funk, you know, and
just trying to figure out, you know, what should I do next? And this
is all so crazy. And, you know, I had kids that were at college that
came home. So I joined this group of women, some of the
entrepreneurs, but a lot of them just trying to figure out what they wanted to
(05:59):
do next. I I think very similar to a lot of the things that you
talk about. And I was on a Zoom call, of
course, one day, and I noticed that a lot of these women who
were trying to start businesses, were expressing frustration. They were
asking questions. You know, they were just sort of stuck. And
it occurred to me, you know, I actually have answers for
(06:21):
some of this. And I wonder if
that's a way that I could put something that's
important to me and that I love teaching out there in
the world and actually help this group of people that I
am very much committed to helping succeed. And so that, I
guess, that was the turning point. No one's ever asked me that before, but I
(06:41):
think that was it. Yeah. I love hearing that. And was
it easy? I mean, I know it bubbled up during
listening to those women. Was it easy for you to then
make the shift or was there some time of struggle or challenge? And I
ask because somebody might be in that same spot right now and be
inspired by hearing just whatever you have to share. I think
(07:03):
because so, yes, it was easier for me to
start putting the steps in place to start a company because
I've already done it. I did a software
company, I built a branding agency, and
so I was the founder of both of those, and then I was an executive
in residence at a startup accelerator. I've helped many, many people
(07:27):
put these initial building blocks in place to grow a business.
So I think I have an advantage on that side, but I definitely
went through a period of, do I have anything
to say that anybody wants to hear? Do I you know,
is what I teach really important? You know, I think we all can have
those moments of self doubt and especially when we're in transition. Right?
(07:49):
We think, you know, my immediate thing was I can help, and here's a
problem I can help solve, And I think I could really make a difference.
And then those voices come in, and they say, they are they don't
need your help. There's plenty of other people who do what you do. You don't
really need to do this. And, we were speaking just a little bit before
the podcast that my original thought was I was gonna take all of this stuff,
(08:11):
and I was just gonna put it in a book. And thinking
about writing a book is is very safe because I can write
my book, and I don't actually have to talk to anybody. I'm just gonna go
over here and write my book. Well, when
you start doing that, you suddenly realize as you're going through this that, you
know, you really do need to go out and talk to some people and make
(08:33):
sure your message resonates. And so I started putting myself
out there, And that's how it kind of grew
from, oh, I'm just gonna write this down somewhere and keep it all to myself.
And maybe I'll maybe I'll send it to, you know, a publisher, see what happens
to okay. Let's let's go ahead and start another business because,
you know, this is what you really like to do. And so there, here I
(08:54):
am. I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did
because it led you to this moment here and now. It did.
Yeah. So would you say now in your experience doing this work, I
know you have along here, like we already heard, twenty five plus years.
Yeah. In this iteration, would you say you have purpose in your
life and work? Yes, I would. And I would say I
(09:16):
have it kind of two ways. Right? Because we can talk
about what, you know, what our purpose is, what our life's work
is or whatever. And I found out relatively
late in life that mine is teaching. So I had a whole
career in corporate, as I said, corporate finance.
And, and I was even, you know, a CEO of a startup and I I
(09:38):
built this other company. And during the, after
the great recession, I shut that company down that it was a brand strategy
agency and marketing companies did not do very well during the great
recession. And I, I was at another one
of these just transition points where I didn't know what I was gonna do next.
And a friend of mine who was a professor at a nearby university,
(10:01):
her department chair called her and said, do you know anybody who can teach venture
funding? And she literally handed the phone to me.
And I I talked to this the the department chair, and I said, well,
yes. I I I know a lot about venture funding and about entrepreneurship,
but I I don't know anything about teaching. And she said, well, why don't you
come in and let's have a conversation? And I was terrified.
(10:24):
Like I, I had no idea if teaching was going to be a good
idea, but I knew the subject matter. And this
door opened for me at a time when a lot of doors were closed.
And I said, well, I'm going to try.
And, I loved it. I loved interacting with the
students. I loved sharing my knowledge. I loved the idea
(10:46):
that I was convincing people that entrepreneurship was an opportunity for
them. And I'm gonna tell a story that when I
taught that very first class, there was only one woman in my
class. And after the first class, I went to
the department chair and I said, why do I only have one woman in my
class? And I don't know. And I'm
(11:07):
like, that's not really okay with me. And so I went
to go find out why. And so I talked to that the woman who was
in my class, and then I asked if I could talk to a few of
her friends. And what I found out was
entrepreneurship was living in the business school, and
through they were afraid to come take classes in the business school
(11:29):
because they were afraid they were gonna be, have a lot of rigorous
math. Oh. And I was like,
okay. First of all, in entrepreneurship, the hardest math we do is percentages,
and I'm pretty sure you all know how to do that. And second of all,
I promise we're not gonna bite you. Come come to
the business school and take my class. And so that's actually what I ended up
(11:52):
doing is going around and talking to various women students groups
on campus and saying, this is why entrepreneurial
skills are important for you, even if you have no desire to start
a company. Right? Because you're always gonna be trying to get other people to
go along with your ideas. You're you're always gonna be trying to sort of
ask people to get on board with things that you wanna do. You've got
(12:14):
to understand how to plan, you know, how to plan something.
And that these skills are useful in corporate America, even
as much as they are, if you're a solo or, you know, a small
company. And I was very successful. I ended up,
increasing the number of women in the minor, like doubling it.
And after I had been at the school for, like, two
(12:36):
semesters, half of my class was women. Wow. So
I'm very proud of that because I feel like I had the
opportunity to influence, you know, at least for the years I was there, a
lot of women to to, you know, take control of their
own destinies by starting their own companies. I love that. And help them think
differently about the whole situation, and math wasn't the only equation.
(13:00):
Exactly. Yeah. That's wonderful. And I mean, there was still room for the men. So
I mean, it didn't take away from anything. So yeah, I love that.
Love that and how you were just guided by your love
and your desire to make a difference all in one.
And you were open when the opportunity came because when your friend
said that, you could have said no. You could have just resisted this.
(13:22):
I could have. I mean, in in you know, again, it was it was not
where I thought I was gonna go. You know, I it really
never crossed my mind Yeah. That I would become a
professor, that I would teach. My mother was a teacher. She taught high school.
Oh. But, I I didn't even realize I didn't also didn't know if I
would be good at it. And, I I ended up I mean, like,
(13:44):
based on the feedback that I got, you know, I I think I was able
to help a lot of people. And so, I I really do. So you are
asking, like, do I have purpose in my work now? And so, yes, I
do because I do feel like teaching is what I was meant to do. I
I wish I had known a little earlier, but that's okay. I get to do
it now. And then I also have purpose in
(14:06):
sort of what we were talking about earlier that in helping
keep a lot of sort of this midlife mid career talent,
like in circulation. Oh. You know, like,
how do we and also getting more
money into the hands of women. Because I think when that happens, good
things follow. Yes. Yes. I agree
(14:29):
wholeheartedly. I love that. All right. So now, I
want, my brain is competing with two thoughts right now.
Okay. I'm going to try to keep them both. We'll see. All right. So,
purpose. I just have to interject for people who are listening who heard me say
this. I think my definition of purpose, true purpose, life
purpose is different than most that I hear. And
(14:52):
often it's about doing a thing and that it's external.
And by the way, you are an illustration of this, which is why I'm bringing
it up now. So hopefully someone else will catch it from your
illustration. I'm just weeing it here, so we'll see how it goes.
Okay. So my my understanding from my experience,
decades of looking for purpose in my own life and studying it and
(15:15):
all this, purpose is not out there. Often people think
it's a thing I have to find, something big and
out there. Solve the issue of homelessness. Find a cure from
cancer. Is there some external thing? Right? A lot of people think that. And they
think it's huge, and they think it's a one time thing. And I
think those are all misconceptions. I think it's evolving.
(15:38):
It's not one time. It doesn't have to be a grand grandiose thing
like that. It could be that, but not usually. And
it doesn't come from out there. It comes from inside of you.
And I have this whole framework without going off on a tangent about how
you get at you, what I callit's an acronym for
your own uniqueness. And when you bring your own uniqueness
(16:01):
and express it, you can express it in different ways,
and it can change over time. And here's the example you just gave
us. The teacher, Inuithere was a teacher, Inuithere was a teacher, Inuithere was the
one that wants to write it in the book and bring it out, or
teach it in the class to the students, or teach it to these
emerging business owners in lots of ways. So teaching is happening
(16:23):
in various ways over the years because it's at the core
of who you are, your own uniqueness. Yeah, I like
that a lot. Yeah And, yeah, it didn't and, again, it
is, it's definitely not something that I ever considered.
Not, you know, not when I was in school. There was never a class I
took that that none of those assessments that you ever take ever said,
(16:46):
hey. You know what you should be doing? You should be a teacher. But I
think and I don't even necessarily think that I teach business
because that's the subject matter that I have the experience in and where I can
help people. But who knows? If I had figured it out
earlier and got it, it's really teaching.
It's like really sharing my knowledge and helping people
(17:08):
learn something new. That's actually it. That's the essence of it.
And again, the discovery of that was really interesting for me because I
it was very unexpected. Yeah. Now I'm curious. Was there
anything about little Laura who was
helping people with her knowledge back then? Not
that she had to be a teacher in the classroom or anything like that, but
(17:30):
was there any part of little Laura helping people learn
something or sharing knowledge in any remote way?
Yeah. That's a really good question. I'm not sure,
but I do know that I remember
taking you know, I I think this was big in the eighties, like, a what
color is your parachute kind of assessment. Right? Where they're you know, you're trying to
(17:52):
figure out your career or whatever. And they asked you to sort
of you were supposed to think of times in your life when you really felt
good about what you were doing or you you know, things you were really proud
of. And I did see a pattern through a couple
of things I had done. They were just really, you know, kind of they were
unrelated to each other until you looked at them and said, you know what I
(18:13):
was actually doing? I was sharing knowledge. I was helping people with something.
So, yeah, there were little tiny glimpses of it along the
way. But you know, sometimes you have to be hit by the head.
And we don't we don't often, like you had the opportunity, but usually we
don't have an opportunity to stop and look. You know, I think of it as
connecting the dots, but we don't even get a chance to stop and think about
(18:34):
the dots because we're on to the next thing. And no judgment about that, just
the way our life is in this society and age and time. Well, and for
sure, and certainly once you choose a career and if your career
has specialized training, you know, you kind of get on this
bus, and you don't really have a chance
to to say, oh, well, wait a minute. You know, to be really introspective
(18:57):
about that, I suppose. Yeah. And you're doing some very important
work helping, people who are in transition
sort of connect the dots from their experience now and use that in the
next iteration of their life and work in their next chapter.
So Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And, again, you
know, it it's some people it's interesting in
(19:19):
this, you know, probably, has some you know, it's
connected to your work, but some people do
realize that they aren't using their
purpose in their chosen career. And
so when they are laid off or pushed out, they don't
necessarily wanna continue that. And so
(19:41):
I I think that's interesting. I think if you are
interested in using the experience you've built during your career,
you have that and your network to be able to leverage
that into a new venture, which can make that transition a
little easier. But it's amazing
how many people come to me and say, well, this is what I've been doing
(20:02):
for this whole career, but I have this idea. And it's
usually something that they're it's a talent that they have.
Or, you know, I don't I don't necessarily like to always say
passion, because all passions do not should not necessarily
be your job. Right? And there's a lot of noise about that out there, and
I it's not an always profitable.
(20:25):
And that is the point of having a business is that we want it to
be able to support you financially and emotionally. So
we do look for which of your ideas has the best opportunity
to be profitable. But, you know, you can do it either
way. But I do think if you do if you
have found some purpose in your work, again, just as you were saying, sometimes
(20:47):
there's an opportunity to apply it in a different way. Yeah. And I agree with
you wholeheartedly, especially about the passion piece. Part
of my teaching is, about your own uniqueness, that y
o u your own uniqueness includes and I think it is a
misconception about passion because it makes it think like there's one thing
and that you have to do that exact thing. So I've learned
(21:09):
over my years that, twenty years or so,
passion is a part of it. You bring your passion to the thing.
Not one. Aspects of any number of
passions. You bring your passions. You bring some
aspect of your value, something that really matters to you. You
bring some aspect of what some people call your gifts. I call them
(21:31):
your natural abilities, those things that come naturally to you. Like for
yours, it sounds like it comes naturally to share your knowledge,
right? So an aspect of each of those, your passions, your
values, the natural abilities, some piece of that has to be in there
in service to someone or something beyond
yourself. When you bring those together and you express it, you
(21:53):
can do it any type of any way in the job, outside of your
job, this year, next year, years to come in different ways. I
think that is such a great way to describe it because
I do think there's a lot of messaging out there about
not only finding your passion. Right? There's just one thing. Right? Which is
(22:13):
okay. Wow. That's a lot of pressure. And then to tell
people, okay, now you have to monetize that. Right? Oh, you
know, do what you love, and you'll never work another day in your life. Well,
you know what? We can love many things and we can be
good at many things and we can be passionate about many things, but it doesn't
mean that all of those things are gonna make us money. And if you are
(22:35):
trying to build a livelihood or a financial opportunity
around something, we need to look at some of those other things that you
mentioned and see what else we can bring to the table so we find ourselves
a profitable opportunity. So we can not only love what we
do, but we can also support ourselves. Yes.
Yes. I agree. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Of course.
(22:58):
Yeah. Of course. We're on the same wavelength. That's right. Okay.
Alright. So now let's talk to thelet's talk to the woman that's listening,
and I'll describe her to you. Oh, this is what I think, and I call
them high achieving women. Yeah. All right. So let's take the high achiever.
She is ambitious in a positive way. She's
responsible. She's always been the responsible one no matter what she's doing.
(23:20):
And I see some kind of nods of approbation, like you can relate to some
of this. She's good at a few things. People come to
her in a professional life. They want advice. You know, what do you think about
this? Whether it's related to her role or anything she does or
not, she's the one that they kind of come to. In her home,
community, neighborhood, people come to her. Let
(23:42):
me let me get your advice or opinion about it could be any random
thing unrelated to her work or whatever that she
does or not, but she's the one. So they're they come, and
she's okay with that, but she's the one that supports a lot of other
people. So when I first started the podcast, I was like, well, who supports
her while she's supporting everyone else? What if we all came
(24:05):
together and supported each other in conversation like this?
And then, for a little while past, I thought, oh, also,
if she's at the point of saying, you know, I'm successful. I
checked all the boxes. I did all the things, but there's something missing,
and she's yearning for more meaning and purpose, fulfillment,
then it all came together. So that's who we're talking to now.
(24:28):
Alright. Yeah. Yeah. So if you were talking to her and she was here like
you are, what would you say to her from your life or your
work or any part of your experience that might be
encouragement or might be advice or whatever you think
might be helpful. Yeah. You know, when I was in,
you know, the corporate finance role, man, I really felt like I was
(24:50):
checking all the boxes. Right? You know, I got that MBA because
I needed to go all the way. You know? And then I I needed to
get this big job where I wore a suit and played the spreadsheets and all
the things. And it it was you know, I think
for externally, it probably looked successful, but
(25:17):
advice or my thought would be, if you
have any interest in entrepreneurship or
any seed of an idea, honor that and
explore it. Because there are a lot of
different paths your life can take, and there are
ways to derisk entrepreneurship
(25:39):
and make it more of a calculated risk rather than something, you
know, you're just jumping into the unknown. And
especially if you have experience in networks and you're a
natural leader like the women you described, you know, they're they're the women
who, you know, they're in a room and nobody raises, you know,
something a decision needs to be made, and they don't necessarily raise their hand, but
(26:01):
everybody turns to them. You know, they're just natural leaders. They they
give that off, and people respect them, and they they wanna know what they think.
And so if you have and and often we're people
like that are are helpers by nature. So if you
see a problem that you would like to solve for a group of
people, and again, it it as you said, it does not have to be
(26:24):
a large problem that's facing society could be a small problem
like I saw. But if there's a group of people you'd like to help
and a problem that you can solve, there are ways to explore
that, that are that can help again
reduce the risk. And you might
unlock some real freedom for yourself to
(26:47):
do something that lights you up to use a phrase that's
overused, but very descriptive, you know, and
to find some time flexibility. And I think as
a woman, I'm a mom and I have aging parents,
like so many of us in this age group, you know,
to free up some time flexibility so there's time for them
(27:10):
and there's time for you. Right? You know, you wanna talk about a great way
to reduce the stress in your life. Even if you are an entrepreneur and there's
stress around that, I I'm not gonna sugarcoat that. But to free
up your time, to get control back over your time,
entrepreneurship is great for that. And then I would
say, as you talk about as we get older and there's a lot of
(27:32):
data on this, there's a lot of research. Women
want more meaning and the ability to create
impact. And I think if you wanna choose your projects
and choose what you work on and choose who you work with,
again, entrepreneurship is a great avenue for that. And so give
yourself the opportunity to explore it. Yes. I
(27:54):
love that. I love that. I mean, that is such wisdom.
Thank you for sharing that. And, this has been
such a delight. And, you know, we were going on and on before we started,
and we I know. We needed to go on and on, but I know you
don't have all day. So, but if there's anything that I didn't get
to ask you that you might say, Oh, let me just share one more thought
(28:14):
before we tell people how they can get in touch with you. So if you
have one more thing, we'll do it. If you don't have one more thing, we
can get right to sharing how they can reach you. I do have one more
thing. I I wanna just say I am so glad you're doing this podcast
because I think understanding your purpose
is is the key to being happy,
(28:36):
to being content, to feeling like you're
not missing something, like to kind of rounding out your
life. And as I said, I really do
feel like my purpose is to teach and had no idea that was
the case until this opportunity came along.
And I I was able to use that and discover something about
(28:59):
myself that I didn't even know was there. And so if
people are listening to you and they realize that
there's this opportunity to discover this and you
are able to help people find that inside themselves, I just think that's such a
gift. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. It's one of the great joys of
my life doing this, I mean, the podcast and the other ways that I share
(29:21):
this message. So thank you for, sharing that. Alright. So
where can people because I'm imagining they're like, Oh, I want to hear more.
I want to hear more. Where can people, get in touch with you? Well, I
would love that. The best way to find me is on my website at
laurazavolson.com, and I'm gonna spell it for you. It's l a u
r a, z as in zebra, a, v as in victory, e
(29:43):
l s o n. So laura zavelson dot com. I am the only Laura
zavelson. And so if you type that into YouTube, you will
come across my YouTube channel, and that has a lot of resources for
people who are interested in starting or growing coaching and consulting businesses.
And so I would say that those are two places where you can find out
a little bit more about me and also get some resources, if
(30:05):
you are sort of contemplating that seed of entrepreneurship.
Okay. Alright. Laura, thank you so much for
sharing your wisdom, your insight, your energy. I feel it.
Your passion, I feel it coming through. Thank you for taking the time and
sharing all that with us here today. Thank you so much for inviting
me. My joy. Okay, everyone. I'd love to hear your
(30:27):
response. Any anything that struck you about this
conversation, about this interview, go ahead and go over to
the podcast website,
leadershippurposepodcast.com,
leadership purpose podcast Com, and
we'll have some resources for you there. Or if you'd rather go to social
media, on all the channels, but I spend most of my time on
(30:51):
LinkedIn, RobinL. Owens, PhD,
RobinL. Owens, PhD. So just send me a connection request or a message
and let me know what's on your mind. And until next time,
this is Dr. Robin. Thank you for tuning into
this episode of the Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast.
(31:11):
If you enjoyed it, head on over and rate and
subscribe so you never miss an episode. New episodes
drop every week, and I can't wait to hang out with you
again soon. Meanwhile, this
is Dr. Robin signing off. See you next time.
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Dr Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin L Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership
(00:47):
Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here and
you're listening to the podcast. I say it all the time. I'll say
it every time. I appreciate you for listening in. And because
you've been such faithful listeners to the podcast, you've helped us
get ranked in the top 5% of all podcasts
globally according to Listen Notes, so thank you for doing that.
(01:09):
And I ask you to help us keep it going. Rate, review,
subscribe to the podcast, and if you hear something you like, especially
take a moment to review the podcast. Really appreciate that.
Alright. Now, today, I'm talking with
Laura Zavelson. Now, let me tell you a little bit about Laura.
She's an MBA and she's a what she calls a corporate
(01:32):
finance escapee. I love that.
Turned serial entrepreneur, former professor of
entrepreneurship, and business strategist. She
helps Gen Xers who are laid off, pushed out, or
burned out. And she helps them capitalize
on their own experience to build businesses as coaches,
(01:55):
consultants, or independent experts. And she draws on twenty
five years of entrepreneurial experience to do this, and she's
committed to helping them have financial stability,
flexibility, and freedom. Welcome, Laura
Zavelson. Thank you so much for having me today. I'm so
glad you're here, and I can't wait to get into this conversation. We were on
(02:17):
a roll before we started recording. I know. This is gonna be
fun. Alright. But you heard me. Let's so people get a sense
of you beyond what I just read. Say a little
more about who you are and what you do, and
then we'll take it from there. Well, you know, I I think, your
introduction covered it pretty well. So right now, I'm a business
(02:40):
strategist, and I do focus on helping Gen X
women, either transition into entrepreneurship
or grow the businesses that they already have. And,
generally, I work with coaches and consultants because that is
one of the easiest transitions that women in
midlife can make because we already have so much experience.
(03:03):
And one of the things that just bugs me is
that so many corporations don't recognize that.
And so and and again, I it occurred to
me as I was creating this business that we had all these women with
all this talent and they were kind of getting, you know, put off in
the sidelines, but the talent they they had
(03:25):
and the the skills that they have aren't necessarily the same skills
you need to grow a business. And so that's where
I, I hope that I help people connect the dots. I
love that. And of course I would. How'd you come to this
work? Because that's very specific. Yeah. It's
interesting. So I used to primarily work with high growth start ups,
(03:46):
so, you know, more on the venture capital kind of side.
And during the pandemic, I started to see, you
know, there were massive layoffs. And I noticed, I
mean, I'm sure this went on before that, but I noticed that a lot of
these women were around my age. They were midlife, mid career. They
were getting laid off. They were trying to start businesses. They
(04:09):
they were deeply passionate about what they did, but they
were just getting stuck in some of the mechanics
to grow a business. And the thing about coaching and
consulting is that it's not like you're trying to
start something nobody's ever done before. Right? You're not try it's not like you're the
founder of Airbnb and you're trying to, like, make that happen for the first time.
(04:32):
Right? We know how to build coaching and consulting businesses.
And so that means that you can
develop a skill set that already exists
that will take some of the well, that should make your path shorter and less
frustrating. Yes. Okay. And so now let's get a
little, zero in on it a little more. Was
(04:54):
there a moment in time or an incident or a day or a
situation that said, you know, I'm really gonna do this now? I know you said
there were some changes, but what happened specifically, if
anything? Yeah. Well, you know, what happened was during the
pandemic, we were also isolated, and I joined
an online group of women who were looking for their next
(05:16):
chapter. And I was actually sort of looking for
my own next chapter. I had recently exited a
company, you know, helped I would came in as the adult supervision
of a it was a start up and helped them get some traction so
they could sell that company. I wasn't actually there for very long and that
that gig kind of wrapped itself up. And I was kind of trying to figure
(05:38):
out what I was gonna do next when the pandemic hit. And I
was really, you know, in a funk, you know, and
just trying to figure out, you know, what should I do next? And this
is all so crazy. And, you know, I had kids that were at college that
came home. So I joined this group of women, some of the
entrepreneurs, but a lot of them just trying to figure out what they wanted to
(05:59):
do next. I I think very similar to a lot of the things that you
talk about. And I was on a Zoom call, of
course, one day, and I noticed that a lot of these women who
were trying to start businesses, were expressing frustration. They were
asking questions. You know, they were just sort of stuck. And
it occurred to me, you know, I actually have answers for
(06:21):
some of this. And I wonder if
that's a way that I could put something that's
important to me and that I love teaching out there in
the world and actually help this group of people that I
am very much committed to helping succeed. And so that, I
guess, that was the turning point. No one's ever asked me that before, but I
(06:41):
think that was it. Yeah. I love hearing that. And was
it easy? I mean, I know it bubbled up during
listening to those women. Was it easy for you to then
make the shift or was there some time of struggle or challenge? And I
ask because somebody might be in that same spot right now and be
inspired by hearing just whatever you have to share. I think
(07:03):
because so, yes, it was easier for me to
start putting the steps in place to start a company because
I've already done it. I did a software
company, I built a branding agency, and
so I was the founder of both of those, and then I was an executive
in residence at a startup accelerator. I've helped many, many people
(07:27):
put these initial building blocks in place to grow a business.
So I think I have an advantage on that side, but I definitely
went through a period of, do I have anything
to say that anybody wants to hear? Do I you know,
is what I teach really important? You know, I think we all can have
those moments of self doubt and especially when we're in transition. Right?
(07:49):
We think, you know, my immediate thing was I can help, and here's a
problem I can help solve, And I think I could really make a difference.
And then those voices come in, and they say, they are they don't
need your help. There's plenty of other people who do what you do. You don't
really need to do this. And, we were speaking just a little bit before
the podcast that my original thought was I was gonna take all of this stuff,
(08:11):
and I was just gonna put it in a book. And thinking
about writing a book is is very safe because I can write
my book, and I don't actually have to talk to anybody. I'm just gonna go
over here and write my book. Well, when
you start doing that, you suddenly realize as you're going through this that, you
know, you really do need to go out and talk to some people and make
(08:33):
sure your message resonates. And so I started putting myself
out there, And that's how it kind of grew
from, oh, I'm just gonna write this down somewhere and keep it all to myself.
And maybe I'll maybe I'll send it to, you know, a publisher, see what happens
to okay. Let's let's go ahead and start another business because,
you know, this is what you really like to do. And so there, here I
(08:54):
am. I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did
because it led you to this moment here and now. It did.
Yeah. So would you say now in your experience doing this work, I
know you have along here, like we already heard, twenty five plus years.
Yeah. In this iteration, would you say you have purpose in your
life and work? Yes, I would. And I would say I
(09:16):
have it kind of two ways. Right? Because we can talk
about what, you know, what our purpose is, what our life's work
is or whatever. And I found out relatively
late in life that mine is teaching. So I had a whole
career in corporate, as I said, corporate finance.
And, and I was even, you know, a CEO of a startup and I I
(09:38):
built this other company. And during the, after
the great recession, I shut that company down that it was a brand strategy
agency and marketing companies did not do very well during the great
recession. And I, I was at another one
of these just transition points where I didn't know what I was gonna do next.
And a friend of mine who was a professor at a nearby university,
(10:01):
her department chair called her and said, do you know anybody who can teach venture
funding? And she literally handed the phone to me.
And I I talked to this the the department chair, and I said, well,
yes. I I I know a lot about venture funding and about entrepreneurship,
but I I don't know anything about teaching. And she said, well, why don't you
come in and let's have a conversation? And I was terrified.
(10:24):
Like I, I had no idea if teaching was going to be a good
idea, but I knew the subject matter. And this
door opened for me at a time when a lot of doors were closed.
And I said, well, I'm going to try.
And, I loved it. I loved interacting with the
students. I loved sharing my knowledge. I loved the idea
(10:46):
that I was convincing people that entrepreneurship was an opportunity for
them. And I'm gonna tell a story that when I
taught that very first class, there was only one woman in my
class. And after the first class, I went to
the department chair and I said, why do I only have one woman in my
class? And I don't know. And I'm
(11:07):
like, that's not really okay with me. And so I went
to go find out why. And so I talked to that the woman who was
in my class, and then I asked if I could talk to a few of
her friends. And what I found out was
entrepreneurship was living in the business school, and
through they were afraid to come take classes in the business school
(11:29):
because they were afraid they were gonna be, have a lot of rigorous
math. Oh. And I was like,
okay. First of all, in entrepreneurship, the hardest math we do is percentages,
and I'm pretty sure you all know how to do that. And second of all,
I promise we're not gonna bite you. Come come to
the business school and take my class. And so that's actually what I ended up
(11:52):
doing is going around and talking to various women students groups
on campus and saying, this is why entrepreneurial
skills are important for you, even if you have no desire to start
a company. Right? Because you're always gonna be trying to get other people to
go along with your ideas. You're you're always gonna be trying to sort of
ask people to get on board with things that you wanna do. You've got
(12:14):
to understand how to plan, you know, how to plan something.
And that these skills are useful in corporate America, even
as much as they are, if you're a solo or, you know, a small
company. And I was very successful. I ended up,
increasing the number of women in the minor, like doubling it.
And after I had been at the school for, like, two
(12:36):
semesters, half of my class was women. Wow. So
I'm very proud of that because I feel like I had the
opportunity to influence, you know, at least for the years I was there, a
lot of women to to, you know, take control of their
own destinies by starting their own companies. I love that. And help them think
differently about the whole situation, and math wasn't the only equation.
(13:00):
Exactly. Yeah. That's wonderful. And I mean, there was still room for the men. So
I mean, it didn't take away from anything. So yeah, I love that.
Love that and how you were just guided by your love
and your desire to make a difference all in one.
And you were open when the opportunity came because when your friend
said that, you could have said no. You could have just resisted this.
(13:22):
I could have. I mean, in in you know, again, it was it was not
where I thought I was gonna go. You know, I it really
never crossed my mind Yeah. That I would become a
professor, that I would teach. My mother was a teacher. She taught high school.
Oh. But, I I didn't even realize I didn't also didn't know if I
would be good at it. And, I I ended up I mean, like,
(13:44):
based on the feedback that I got, you know, I I think I was able
to help a lot of people. And so, I I really do. So you are
asking, like, do I have purpose in my work now? And so, yes, I
do because I do feel like teaching is what I was meant to do. I
I wish I had known a little earlier, but that's okay. I get to do
it now. And then I also have purpose in
(14:06):
sort of what we were talking about earlier that in helping
keep a lot of sort of this midlife mid career talent,
like in circulation. Oh. You know, like,
how do we and also getting more
money into the hands of women. Because I think when that happens, good
things follow. Yes. Yes. I agree
(14:29):
wholeheartedly. I love that. All right. So now, I
want, my brain is competing with two thoughts right now.
Okay. I'm going to try to keep them both. We'll see. All right. So,
purpose. I just have to interject for people who are listening who heard me say
this. I think my definition of purpose, true purpose, life
purpose is different than most that I hear. And
(14:52):
often it's about doing a thing and that it's external.
And by the way, you are an illustration of this, which is why I'm bringing
it up now. So hopefully someone else will catch it from your
illustration. I'm just weeing it here, so we'll see how it goes.
Okay. So my my understanding from my experience,
decades of looking for purpose in my own life and studying it and
(15:15):
all this, purpose is not out there. Often people think
it's a thing I have to find, something big and
out there. Solve the issue of homelessness. Find a cure from
cancer. Is there some external thing? Right? A lot of people think that. And they
think it's huge, and they think it's a one time thing. And I
think those are all misconceptions. I think it's evolving.
(15:38):
It's not one time. It doesn't have to be a grand grandiose thing
like that. It could be that, but not usually. And
it doesn't come from out there. It comes from inside of you.
And I have this whole framework without going off on a tangent about how
you get at you, what I callit's an acronym for
your own uniqueness. And when you bring your own uniqueness
(16:01):
and express it, you can express it in different ways,
and it can change over time. And here's the example you just gave
us. The teacher, Inuithere was a teacher, Inuithere was a teacher, Inuithere was the
one that wants to write it in the book and bring it out, or
teach it in the class to the students, or teach it to these
emerging business owners in lots of ways. So teaching is happening
(16:23):
in various ways over the years because it's at the core
of who you are, your own uniqueness. Yeah, I like
that a lot. Yeah And, yeah, it didn't and, again, it
is, it's definitely not something that I ever considered.
Not, you know, not when I was in school. There was never a class I
took that that none of those assessments that you ever take ever said,
(16:46):
hey. You know what you should be doing? You should be a teacher. But I
think and I don't even necessarily think that I teach business
because that's the subject matter that I have the experience in and where I can
help people. But who knows? If I had figured it out
earlier and got it, it's really teaching.
It's like really sharing my knowledge and helping people
(17:08):
learn something new. That's actually it. That's the essence of it.
And again, the discovery of that was really interesting for me because I
it was very unexpected. Yeah. Now I'm curious. Was there
anything about little Laura who was
helping people with her knowledge back then? Not
that she had to be a teacher in the classroom or anything like that, but
(17:30):
was there any part of little Laura helping people learn
something or sharing knowledge in any remote way?
Yeah. That's a really good question. I'm not sure,
but I do know that I remember
taking you know, I I think this was big in the eighties, like, a what
color is your parachute kind of assessment. Right? Where they're you know, you're trying to
(17:52):
figure out your career or whatever. And they asked you to sort
of you were supposed to think of times in your life when you really felt
good about what you were doing or you you know, things you were really proud
of. And I did see a pattern through a couple
of things I had done. They were just really, you know, kind of they were
unrelated to each other until you looked at them and said, you know what I
(18:13):
was actually doing? I was sharing knowledge. I was helping people with something.
So, yeah, there were little tiny glimpses of it along the
way. But you know, sometimes you have to be hit by the head.
And we don't we don't often, like you had the opportunity, but usually we
don't have an opportunity to stop and look. You know, I think of it as
connecting the dots, but we don't even get a chance to stop and think about
(18:34):
the dots because we're on to the next thing. And no judgment about that, just
the way our life is in this society and age and time. Well, and for
sure, and certainly once you choose a career and if your career
has specialized training, you know, you kind of get on this
bus, and you don't really have a chance
to to say, oh, well, wait a minute. You know, to be really introspective
(18:57):
about that, I suppose. Yeah. And you're doing some very important
work helping, people who are in transition
sort of connect the dots from their experience now and use that in the
next iteration of their life and work in their next chapter.
So Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And, again, you
know, it it's some people it's interesting in
(19:19):
this, you know, probably, has some you know, it's
connected to your work, but some people do
realize that they aren't using their
purpose in their chosen career. And
so when they are laid off or pushed out, they don't
necessarily wanna continue that. And so
(19:41):
I I think that's interesting. I think if you are
interested in using the experience you've built during your career,
you have that and your network to be able to leverage
that into a new venture, which can make that transition a
little easier. But it's amazing
how many people come to me and say, well, this is what I've been doing
(20:02):
for this whole career, but I have this idea. And it's
usually something that they're it's a talent that they have.
Or, you know, I don't I don't necessarily like to always say
passion, because all passions do not should not necessarily
be your job. Right? And there's a lot of noise about that out there, and
I it's not an always profitable.
(20:25):
And that is the point of having a business is that we want it to
be able to support you financially and emotionally. So
we do look for which of your ideas has the best opportunity
to be profitable. But, you know, you can do it either
way. But I do think if you do if you
have found some purpose in your work, again, just as you were saying, sometimes
(20:47):
there's an opportunity to apply it in a different way. Yeah. And I agree with
you wholeheartedly, especially about the passion piece. Part
of my teaching is, about your own uniqueness, that y
o u your own uniqueness includes and I think it is a
misconception about passion because it makes it think like there's one thing
and that you have to do that exact thing. So I've learned
(21:09):
over my years that, twenty years or so,
passion is a part of it. You bring your passion to the thing.
Not one. Aspects of any number of
passions. You bring your passions. You bring some
aspect of your value, something that really matters to you. You
bring some aspect of what some people call your gifts. I call them
(21:31):
your natural abilities, those things that come naturally to you. Like for
yours, it sounds like it comes naturally to share your knowledge,
right? So an aspect of each of those, your passions, your
values, the natural abilities, some piece of that has to be in there
in service to someone or something beyond
yourself. When you bring those together and you express it, you
(21:53):
can do it any type of any way in the job, outside of your
job, this year, next year, years to come in different ways. I
think that is such a great way to describe it because
I do think there's a lot of messaging out there about
not only finding your passion. Right? There's just one thing. Right? Which is
(22:13):
okay. Wow. That's a lot of pressure. And then to tell
people, okay, now you have to monetize that. Right? Oh, you
know, do what you love, and you'll never work another day in your life. Well,
you know what? We can love many things and we can be
good at many things and we can be passionate about many things, but it doesn't
mean that all of those things are gonna make us money. And if you are
(22:35):
trying to build a livelihood or a financial opportunity
around something, we need to look at some of those other things that you
mentioned and see what else we can bring to the table so we find ourselves
a profitable opportunity. So we can not only love what we
do, but we can also support ourselves. Yes.
Yes. I agree. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Of course.
(22:58):
Yeah. Of course. We're on the same wavelength. That's right. Okay.
Alright. So now let's talk to thelet's talk to the woman that's listening,
and I'll describe her to you. Oh, this is what I think, and I call
them high achieving women. Yeah. All right. So let's take the high achiever.
She is ambitious in a positive way. She's
responsible. She's always been the responsible one no matter what she's doing.
(23:20):
And I see some kind of nods of approbation, like you can relate to some
of this. She's good at a few things. People come to
her in a professional life. They want advice. You know, what do you think about
this? Whether it's related to her role or anything she does or
not, she's the one that they kind of come to. In her home,
community, neighborhood, people come to her. Let
(23:42):
me let me get your advice or opinion about it could be any random
thing unrelated to her work or whatever that she
does or not, but she's the one. So they're they come, and
she's okay with that, but she's the one that supports a lot of other
people. So when I first started the podcast, I was like, well, who supports
her while she's supporting everyone else? What if we all came
(24:05):
together and supported each other in conversation like this?
And then, for a little while past, I thought, oh, also,
if she's at the point of saying, you know, I'm successful. I
checked all the boxes. I did all the things, but there's something missing,
and she's yearning for more meaning and purpose, fulfillment,
then it all came together. So that's who we're talking to now.
(24:28):
Alright. Yeah. Yeah. So if you were talking to her and she was here like
you are, what would you say to her from your life or your
work or any part of your experience that might be
encouragement or might be advice or whatever you think
might be helpful. Yeah. You know, when I was in,
you know, the corporate finance role, man, I really felt like I was
(24:50):
checking all the boxes. Right? You know, I got that MBA because
I needed to go all the way. You know? And then I I needed to
get this big job where I wore a suit and played the spreadsheets and all
the things. And it it was you know, I think
for externally, it probably looked successful, but
(25:17):
advice or my thought would be, if you
have any interest in entrepreneurship or
any seed of an idea, honor that and
explore it. Because there are a lot of
different paths your life can take, and there are
ways to derisk entrepreneurship
(25:39):
and make it more of a calculated risk rather than something, you
know, you're just jumping into the unknown. And
especially if you have experience in networks and you're a
natural leader like the women you described, you know, they're they're the women
who, you know, they're in a room and nobody raises, you know,
something a decision needs to be made, and they don't necessarily raise their hand, but
(26:01):
everybody turns to them. You know, they're just natural leaders. They they
give that off, and people respect them, and they they wanna know what they think.
And so if you have and and often we're people
like that are are helpers by nature. So if you
see a problem that you would like to solve for a group of
people, and again, it it as you said, it does not have to be
(26:24):
a large problem that's facing society could be a small problem
like I saw. But if there's a group of people you'd like to help
and a problem that you can solve, there are ways to explore
that, that are that can help again
reduce the risk. And you might
unlock some real freedom for yourself to
(26:47):
do something that lights you up to use a phrase that's
overused, but very descriptive, you know, and
to find some time flexibility. And I think as
a woman, I'm a mom and I have aging parents,
like so many of us in this age group, you know,
to free up some time flexibility so there's time for them
(27:10):
and there's time for you. Right? You know, you wanna talk about a great way
to reduce the stress in your life. Even if you are an entrepreneur and there's
stress around that, I I'm not gonna sugarcoat that. But to free
up your time, to get control back over your time,
entrepreneurship is great for that. And then I would
say, as you talk about as we get older and there's a lot of
(27:32):
data on this, there's a lot of research. Women
want more meaning and the ability to create
impact. And I think if you wanna choose your projects
and choose what you work on and choose who you work with,
again, entrepreneurship is a great avenue for that. And so give
yourself the opportunity to explore it. Yes. I
(27:54):
love that. I love that. I mean, that is such wisdom.
Thank you for sharing that. And, this has been
such a delight. And, you know, we were going on and on before we started,
and we I know. We needed to go on and on, but I know you
don't have all day. So, but if there's anything that I didn't get
to ask you that you might say, Oh, let me just share one more thought
(28:14):
before we tell people how they can get in touch with you. So if you
have one more thing, we'll do it. If you don't have one more thing, we
can get right to sharing how they can reach you. I do have one more
thing. I I wanna just say I am so glad you're doing this podcast
because I think understanding your purpose
is is the key to being happy,
(28:36):
to being content, to feeling like you're
not missing something, like to kind of rounding out your
life. And as I said, I really do
feel like my purpose is to teach and had no idea that was
the case until this opportunity came along.
And I I was able to use that and discover something about
(28:59):
myself that I didn't even know was there. And so if
people are listening to you and they realize that
there's this opportunity to discover this and you
are able to help people find that inside themselves, I just think that's such a
gift. Thank you. Thank you for saying that. It's one of the great joys of
my life doing this, I mean, the podcast and the other ways that I share
(29:21):
this message. So thank you for, sharing that. Alright. So
where can people because I'm imagining they're like, Oh, I want to hear more.
I want to hear more. Where can people, get in touch with you? Well, I
would love that. The best way to find me is on my website at
laurazavolson.com, and I'm gonna spell it for you. It's l a u
r a, z as in zebra, a, v as in victory, e
(29:43):
l s o n. So laura zavelson dot com. I am the only Laura
zavelson. And so if you type that into YouTube, you will
come across my YouTube channel, and that has a lot of resources for
people who are interested in starting or growing coaching and consulting businesses.
And so I would say that those are two places where you can find out
a little bit more about me and also get some resources, if
(30:05):
you are sort of contemplating that seed of entrepreneurship.
Okay. Alright. Laura, thank you so much for
sharing your wisdom, your insight, your energy. I feel it.
Your passion, I feel it coming through. Thank you for taking the time and
sharing all that with us here today. Thank you so much for inviting
me. My joy. Okay, everyone. I'd love to hear your
(30:27):
response. Any anything that struck you about this
conversation, about this interview, go ahead and go over to
the podcast website,
leadershippurposepodcast.com,
leadership purpose podcast Com, and
we'll have some resources for you there. Or if you'd rather go to social
media, on all the channels, but I spend most of my time on
(30:51):
LinkedIn, RobinL. Owens, PhD,
RobinL. Owens, PhD. So just send me a connection request or a message
and let me know what's on your mind. And until next time,
this is Dr. Robin. Thank you for tuning into
this episode of the Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast.
(31:11):
If you enjoyed it, head on over and rate and
subscribe so you never miss an episode. New episodes
drop every week, and I can't wait to hang out with you
again soon. Meanwhile, this
is Dr. Robin signing off. See you next time.
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