May 14, 2025 • 33 mins
This week’s “How She Finds Purpose” insight comes from Jenny Mitchell. She says -
"I believe that we are almost always so much stronger, braver, more creative, more curious, more inspiring, and more capable than we give ourselves credit for."
Jenny Mitchell is the author of the book Embracing Ambition: Empowering Women to Step Out, Be Seen, and Lead. She is the chief visionary officer of Chavender, where she works with leaders to change the world one mission at a time.
A dynamic speaker, executive coach, fundraising professional, and host of the Underdog Leadership podcast, Jenny's passion for inspiring excellence led her from a career as a classical pianist to leadership coaching.
Here are 3 reasons why you should listen to this episode:
- Discover how Jenny transitioned from a classical pianist to a leadership coach, turning her passion for people into a thriving career.
- Learn why saying “yes” to unexpected opportunities can be a game-changer for your personal and professional growth.
- Get practical insights on finding your purpose, even if you’re feeling stuck or unsure where to start.
Connect with Jenny at:
Website: https://chavender.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chavender/
Podcast: https://chavender.com/underdog-leadership-podcast/
Would you prefer to watch or listen to the podcast on YouTube?
Head on over to https://www.youtube.com/@leadershippurposepodcast
Want to connect? Connect with Dr. Robin on
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robinlowensphd/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/robinlowensphd
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/robinlowensphd/
Email: Robin@LeadershipPurposePodcast.com
Thank you for listening! Rate, review, & follow on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast player. Talk to you soon!
This episode was produced by Lynda, Podcast Manager for GenX Creative Entrepreneurs at https://www.ljscreativeservices.co.nz
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Dr Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin L Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership
(00:47):
Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here and
you take time to listen into the podcast. And because you've been listening to
the podcast so faithfully, we've been ranked in the top
5% of all podcasts globally according to
Listen Notes. So thank you for listening in. And I encourage you as
always to continue to help us keep it going. Rate,
(01:09):
review, and subscribe to the podcast. That would be a big help. All right.
Now, today, I'm talking with Jenny
Mitchell. Now, let me tell you a little bit about Jenny. Jenny
Mitchell is the author of the book In Embracing
Ambition, Empowering Women to Step Out, Be
Seen, and Lead. She is the chief visionary
(01:31):
officer of Chavender, where she works closely with leaders
to change the world one mission at a time. She's
a dynamic speaker, executive coach, fundraising
professional, and my favorite, host of the Underdog
Leadership podcast. Penny's passion for inspiring
excellence and others guided her from a career
(01:53):
as a classical pianist into leadership coaching. I
can't wait to hear about that story. Just can't wait.
Drawing on years of experience as a professional musician, she strives to bring
creativity, energy, and excellence to everything she does.
Welcome, Jenny Mitchell. Oh. Thank you
very much, Doctor. Robin. It's a pleasure to be here with you and your audience.
(02:17):
I'm glad you're here. Okay. So now you heard me read your
official sort of bio intro, but tell us in your own words
more about who you are and then what you do. So I
guess I would call myself an obsessed, curious person,
and I can remember right from the beginning just
really enjoying and and learning from other people.
(02:39):
And, you know, the things that matter to me, doctor Robin, at this stage of
my life are my family, my purpose. I
believe in women's leadership. I believe in a new paradigm
of leadership where we have variety of ways we
lead, not one, not another, but always that we lead. And
on a personal note, I have a a COVID cat. I have a
(03:01):
dog. I have two beautiful daughters that are a lot of my purpose in life,
and I'm a ridiculously avid tennis player. Oh,
wow. Good for you. You know, when you said tennis,
I just thought about the one tennis lesson I had, and I really enjoyed it.
Maybe I'll have another one. Well, and tennis
is a great, transition sport for us
(03:23):
addictive, obsessive people. Like, we're gonna talk more about piano
performance later on, I'm sure, in the podcast. And, tennis
has this wonderful combination of technique, like craft,
exercise, and social. So it's like this
trifecta for me. And fun fact, tennis is one of those
few sports that they say from the research can add ten years to your
(03:46):
life. I'll see. I have to get back. Lesson two
on my calendar. Say no more. Say no more, Jenny Mitchell.
I'm going back for my second lesson. Alright. So, you know, I
hinted at this a little bit in your introduction, but tell us how
you came to do the work you're doing. Yeah. And it's a it's
a okay. Put your seat belts on people. It's gotta look a lot of I'm
(04:08):
ready. I'm ready. It's got some pin what do you call those things? Switchbacks.
I guess they call them when you go up the hill. Everything in Italy seems
to be at the top of a hill. Anything worth seeing is at the top
of the hill. So I I wanna bring our listeners back to a
bright eyed, curious young lady who went to high school
and had options. I was very lucky to have
(04:28):
parents that said, you know, you do what you wanna do. And I
while I looked at many options out of high school, I knew
that music was the one thing or the thing I thought would be bottomless, that
it would be able to kind of peak my curiosity indefinitely. And
I was good at it, to be honest. I I like to jump hurdles. So
I completed a undergraduate degree in piano performance at a
(04:51):
very prestigious school here in Canada. And from
there, I went, okay. What's next? Most of my friends were doing
masters, and I'm I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I kind of was like,
where's the next hurdle? Let's jump the next hurdle. I didn't do a ton of
thinking. I was also pretty young. Did a master's at Manhattan School
of Music, which your listeners will recognize that's up on the Upper West Side
(05:12):
Of New York City. And from there, got into a
doctorate program in at SUNY Stony Brook, which is out on Long Island,
and completed my doctorate there, just around, the year
February. And all of those experiences were
incredible, doctor Robin. I wouldn't change them from the world.
And when you ask about the colonels of my story, I
(05:35):
think about the discipline I learned. I think about the connections
and the camaraderie that we had in those those departments
because nobody goes into music for money. People go into music for
the experience. The kind of self discipline that I
found in myself and and learned and I would
also call, like, you know, it's it's not an easy
(05:56):
profession. It's, it's insatiable, the amount of time you can spend in
a practice room. But by the time I finished my doctorate, I
knew I was not meant to be in a room 10 by
10 by myself practicing piano. I had I was far too chatty,
to be honest. That was the first part. And second of all, I had other
interests. I was always the person that organized people. I was always the person
(06:19):
that brought people together to do things. And when I
started my family, I fell into fundraising
at the Brooklyn Conservatory of Music where I was teaching,
and I got involved with a fundraising day event for the
pianos. And I'll be honest. Like, I was kinda hooked. It was like,
okay. So we all come together. We make the world a better place. We make
(06:41):
effort. Money's raised, and we can buy things, like,
in this case, better pianos. I was like, this is awesome. Like, I
loved the team, and I loved getting to know the people and
understanding how their strengths could contribute to the team. And
so I know from your work, you will you can totally relate.
Right? Team building. I was doing team building in a different structure. I
(07:02):
love everything about this story. I have 25,000 thoughts
competing right now. But first, let me give a nod to
Manhattan School of Music because I used to live in New York on the
Upper West Side Oh my gosh. And the bus stop right outside of my
building was right next door to the Manhattan School of Music. And this
really is related to our overall story here, but, you know it'd be
(07:25):
11:00 at night or midnight no matter what time it was if somebody
was from this Manhattan School of Music and they were at the bus stop they
would be singing nobody's around they're just singing out
and I loved it And what I made up about
that was when you have a passion in you, it has to come out.
So you're just at the bus stop and it's coming out, and it was beautiful,
(07:47):
you know, a variety of sounds from from those people.
So I had that memory when you talked about being in New
York. Oh, I'm so happy to hear that. And, you
probably know the deli where I survived on, chicken
parmesan sandwiches with my meager skills or my my
meager dollars when I was studying there. And because your podcast is about
(08:08):
passion and purpose, you know, we're gonna talk more about how I shifted
away from music. And I think one of the things that that brought me to
it was the expectations around being a classical
musician and the pressure, I'm gonna call it that. And that was self
imposed. I don't think anybody was really breathing down my neck,
but I also realized that there were other things I wanted to do. So I
(08:30):
think that's important for your listeners to hear because I had this niggle
that not so much is this all there is, but
more like, what else is there? Or it I, like, I
was, again, very curious, and I I'm grateful for the
experience. I just think an arts degree is so just any kind of
arts degree, not just just broaden it to help you understand
(08:52):
how you think, how you critical think, and the world is full of
people. So I think it's unrealistic to think you can go through the world without
learning how to work with and alongside people. Yeah.
Yeah. I love that. Alright. So now let's go back to the point where you
fell upon fundraising. You know, I
I see the I I'm seeing the dots here already. Alright. So did
(09:15):
someone ask you to participate in this fundraiser? How did you get connected with
the fundraiser? It's a great question. That first one that opened up your eyes.
Yeah. So definitely somebody her name was Jeri Mayer. It's so funny. I remember
that name. And she invited me to be on the committee and to be a
volunteer. And, it was a big gala. And, you know, this was
shiny for me. I was young. This is New York City. We're talking like the
(09:36):
heyday of New York City. Right, Robin? We're talking Yes. You know, things were
fun, man. And, you know, the the the experiences
were big. The money was big. And so I'm volunteering. I put
together the silent auction. And at the same time, I was taking a course
at NYU. I took a introduction to fundraising course. And I do wanna set
the stage that at the time, I had just delivered my first baby, and I
(09:59):
was very actively it's funny. We talk about purpose, but also,
like, lifestyle. I don't think I ever really thought much when I was in school
about what kind of lifestyle I wanted. And once I became a
musician, I realized, okay. So my work is all evenings and weekends, and my
husband works a banking job that's nine to whatever, and this
is not gonna work. Right? Like, this is there's a problem here.
(10:21):
And so I was actively looking for daytime hours. I remember walking
around my apartment saying, okay. How do I find a job that's
during the day, and what skills are transferable? And I
knew I could write because I did have a had written a dissertation, and
I knew I could put sentences together. So I the one of the first steps
I took was taking a grant writing course, and I I started writing
(10:42):
grants and grant applications because that was a skill I had.
And that was kind of the first foray to your point,
between the courses, which by the way was just I would get on I lived
in Brooklyn. I would get on the subway. And if anybody out there has had
a six week or a three month old baby, and I was by myself for
two and a half hours, and I would go into the city and listen and
(11:03):
learn. Learning's a big it's actually, one of my,
defining features. Like, if you look at my strengths finder, learner is very
high, and I would come home, and it was just like this magical
experience I'm so grateful for. I'm
relate. I'm laughing because I can relate to just being that learner and
for you not having time, but then having a chunk of time where you can
(11:27):
focus on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. Alright. So we have some
nuggets already for the listener. You never know someone
where it comes from. Like someone recognized in you that you
could do this work. Even though it was a volunteer role, I'm sure they didn't
ask just anyone. So there was something that they recognized in you. So for people
to pay attention when other people ask them for help or to do
(11:50):
things. I was gonna say, and I'm gonna pick up on that too, that I
really said yes to something I knew nothing about. And in
my experience, that's been one of the differentiators,
you know, to I could have said I'm not ready. I don't know how to
do it. I could have deferred to someone else. I said, sure. What
the heck? And often, Jenny Mitchell says, and how hard can that be? And
(12:11):
then I find out how hard it could be. Right? But go for
it. Like, I think not wildly and not, like, crazily, doctor
Robin, but, you know, if you don't put yourself out there
and try things, you won't know, and you won't have a a dataset
to compare yourself to. I agree. I agree.
Okay. So you you did this fundraiser. You participated
(12:34):
in it, and it sounds like that's when the energy started to rise in
you. Then what happened? How did how did it
impact your journey and when? For sure. So there's somewhere along the line
where I go, oh, this is a profession. I can actually do this. This is
a thing. Because I think a lot of people fall into fund development and
fundraising. So then what's interesting is we
(12:56):
ended up moving back to Canada. So I'm originally I'm from Canada, and I'm
Canadian. And it was a bit of a tumble. It was a bit of
a chaotic tumble back to Canada, and I had two little babies.
And I'm like, okay. So who am I? Like,
literally, who am I besides the mother of these two children because I've been out
of the country for so long. And I start to define for
(13:18):
myself what I am and what I wanna do. And I remember one
moment waking up and going, okay. There's a
fundraising conference coming up, and I know no one because I'm
just new. And I'm like, okay. I'm just gonna go show up,
and I'm gonna meet people. And I had this idea that I could work part
time because the kids are pretty young. And so I basically went with the intention
(13:39):
of I'm gonna meet as many consultants as I can, and I'm gonna find out
if there's work for me. And with that intention, I I actually
met my mentor at that conference. I mean, you
know, was somebody looking out for me, or was my intention clear enough? You know,
finding that purpose, that was the next step for me, because I
didn't have my own network. And that relationship, I
(14:02):
visited her this summer. I mean, we've been friends for over twenty years
and I visit her this summer at her house. She's she's traveled and
whatever. So that's kind of a cool story too. Yeah. That's wonderful. But
you had you took the initiative to say I need to be around people.
So that was that was a big step too, a bit of a risk to
just step out into an unknown. Oh, and look, I I don't I
(14:24):
didn't have many clothes. Like, I was like, what fits?
Like shoes, like, where are these things? I was, and I
I remember thinking, it's time to build
my community. It's a time to I'm gonna be here for a while. And
I I want to build a community of people and
and people that I trust. It was very important to me. And so
(14:46):
you said you were asking you were looking for people to to
work with as a consultant. You then saw yourself as a
consultant at that point. Is that where we are in the story? Yeah. So where
we are in the story is I couldn't get my head around a full time
job at the time, and I kept thinking,
well, what do I want? And sometimes I think with particularly with
(15:09):
women, we pull away from what we actually want. We kind of minimize it
or we pretend it's not possible or it's not possible for me.
And I you know, we all have all these stories. And so I guess I
went saying, well, if I could have if I had a magic
wand, what I wanted was a two, three day a week job where I could
work and the work would be meaningful and I could learn.
(15:32):
And, I remember that was that was really my main goal.
And I didn't I so I worked for other consultants. So I was like a
subcontractor for other consultants. And the impact was that I got to
see a lot of different files, which is a great, great
experience for me in particular because I'm not a I don't know if you do
disc assessments or whatever, but I'm not an s or a c. I'm not a
(15:53):
stability girl. I'm not a conscientious girl. I'm more of a, like,
what else is there, girl? I'm the the the quiet the visionary,
the the creative on the scale. So I need
I crave experiences and different experiences. So it was a
real great match made in heaven. I did all sorts of grunt work. I worked
the front lines. I learned from the bottom up. Highly
(16:15):
recommend it. Being a consultant is a very dynamic
thing, and you have to be able to quickly process and absorb
information and make good recommendations. And I did that for
a long time until, switch back in the story,
my mentor, her husband came into the business, and there was no longer enough
work for me. And so I was like,
(16:36):
okay. I guess I put out a website. I make a website
and hang out. Like, it was that kinda like, I guess that's what I do.
And I did that with no knowledge. I had no logo, no
nothing. I built it from scratch and said, let's see what happens.
I mean, that's amazing. I mean, because a lot of people could have just said,
I don't know what to do. Just rely on this person and True. You
(16:59):
know, but you just, once again, put yourself out
there. Yeah. Did you know what you were how
you were gonna shape what you were you when you put the website, you're like,
I'm gonna do this on my own. I mean, I had very little idea, to
be perfectly honest. I think I liken it to when I went to go to
school in music. Who knows what a professional musician does all
(17:20):
day? Right? Like, it's we think about the career. We think about the the
degree, but we don't actually think about the lifestyle. And that's one of the vices
I often give to younger folks is, you know, think about not just
the job that you'll do all day, but the kind of environment in the life.
You know, if you're gonna be a chemical engineer, you're in our world, you're probably
gonna work out out west in in in Canada, or you're gonna work in certain
(17:41):
areas of the country, and you're gonna be on shift work, and you're gonna be,
like, just trying to put into perspective the holistic approach
to a choice rather than just a linear.
So I knew I wanted my independence, and I think it's important for your
listeners to know that my mother ran a small business. So I was
seeped in that background, and my father was a sales rep. So I
(18:03):
came by it honestly. A lot of folks say, oh
my gosh. How did you become an entrepreneur? And I think it's just exposure. I
mean, it takes a certain kind of, that
transition from corporate to entrepreneurship, which I I've helped
some women through. You know, the advice is build up
a war chest and bet on yourself.
(18:27):
Can't go wrong. You can't go wrong. Okay. Alright. So
you bet on yourself and you started your website
and your business was born off and running. Alright. So now fast
forward to this moment and we might go back. Do you feel now that you
are expressing your purpose? I so
love that you asked me that because sometimes it's hard
(18:49):
to step off the roller coaster and take stock. So thank you for that
that opportunity. I was I was preparing sort of my notes.
I finally feel like I am expressing my
purpose and that I am truly in my groove. And how I know it,
because that was I figured you were gonna ask me that question too. How I
know it is that my days
(19:12):
don't feel not that they don't feel stressful, but they even if
they're stressful, there's a reason and there's a there's an intention
behind it. I also feel like my
unique skill set not everybody wants to be a CEO, not everybody wants to be
an entrepreneur, but my unique skill set is perfectly
aligned with the work that I'm doing. I like
(19:35):
as a coach, an executive coach, I like getting to know
people deeply. I care about important conversations.
I respect people. You know, when I heard and we can
talk a little bit about switching from fundraising to coaching because it's it's actually quite
simple. But when I heard of when I did my my first coaching certification
and I realized that the mantra or the approach was
(19:58):
people are all were already whole, that we we come to a coaching space
with the understanding the person in front of us is already capable and whole
and beautiful, and our job is to partner with them. I was
like, that's what was missing from my music background
because the music was so hierarchical, doctor Robin. It was do it
this way. Do it with this inflection. Do it with this school of thought,
(20:20):
and teachers and mentors were so put on
pedestals. I think that was really one of the things that
didn't jive for me in hindsight, but I, I couldn't have told you that until
I, I took my first coaching experience. Makes
sense. It makes sense. So you found the thing that
suited who you are. Yeah. I'll put Yeah. I'll put
(20:42):
And share it as a mission. I've never thought of it that
way. So thank you. I mean, I know it feels good. That's
the other one for your listeners. It just like you know, and and we have
to be careful as coaches. Like, I'm not here in the coaching business to
make myself feel good. Right? My I'm here in the coaching
business to, help support someone through a journey that's
(21:04):
not mine. I think a lot about that, especially because I'm a pleaser,
and I like to do things right, and I like to make people happy. But
being a coach is also asking tough questions and and challenging people's
narratives or stories that they might have about themselves or others.
And I often will check-in at the end of my day, you know, did I
feel like I did more good than harm? Did I do I feel
(21:27):
like I made a difference today? And
I do. I do. Most days, I feel like I can hang
my hat on that, and that is becoming enough for me.
And the not for profit world, the way I thought I would contribute, which was
fund development and raising money, it's I always found
the raising money was great. I was happy with that, but that I always came
(21:49):
back to the people. I always connected the most with the people, and I actually
switched into coaching because the money wasn't enough. I wanted to help
the people change and the people adapt. And the
people, if we worked with them and supported them, they could raise the
money. Yes. Yes. I see how it all flows
together. Now what is there any part of
(22:11):
little Jenny whenever you were little Jenny,
do you see any part of her showing up in the what you're
doing these days? Yeah. So
little Jenny, you ask good questions. Thank you for
that. You know, little Jenny was busy.
Like, she didn't wanna stop to eat.
(22:34):
She was full of ideas. You know, I I think back on
it, She was resourceful. She was very curious.
I would say that what one of the things that happened with
little Jenny was the world happened. And so little Jenny gets a layer
and another layer and another layer, and she learns how to conform in the world.
And I hope your listeners can can see themselves in this
(22:56):
journey. We we survive. I'm a survivor. We we add
these components on top of ourselves to live and
and survive and and exist and coexist. And the
beautiful part about getting older is you start throwing off those layers. You're like, I
don't need that coat. I don't need that costume. I don't need that anymore.
And what's left is this sort of that vibrancy,
(23:18):
that energy. I think I always had a lot of energy and a lot
of enthusiasm, and I was actually people laugh,
but I was a relatively shy kid. I I wasn't the
person to reach out in the classroom, but I almost feel
like I overdid it when I I what I saw as a deficiency
became a superpower because my way to feel comfortable was
(23:41):
to ingratiate and get to know people. And so that
superpower kind of fueled a lot of my work. And at this
stage, you know, I'm not everybody's cup of tea, and that's okay,
doctor Robin. And I'm I'm really good with that because I
do feel aligned with my purpose and that, you know, the people that
wanna meet me and find me or align with me, they'll they'll find me. That's
(24:03):
okay. And I wish the others well. No no ill feelings. That's
right. That's right. I agree with you. I agree with you. So I think that's
true for everyone. You know? I think for everyone, there's no
100%, you know, liking of one person. So I'm
with you. I'm with you. All right. Let's switch gears to
theto the listener. I'll tell you who I think the listener is, and
(24:24):
then, you can share whatever thoughts you want.
All right. So but I started the podcast for what I call High Achieving
Women. But the reason why I started the podcast a couple reasons.
But one, you know, we're talking about doing the thing who
like, that's inside of us. When I was in high school, I had a
fantasy to be on the radio, but I didn't tell anyone because I didn't
(24:47):
know anybody. I didn't even know like, you were talking about you didn't know it
was a job. I didn't know it was a thing. So I'm just like, but
that would be so cool, and I always had that fantasy. So fast
forward years later when podcast became a thing, I'm like, oh,
here's my chance to do something I feel like I would like. And it
was true. I love it, as you might be able to tell. Yeah. I can
tell. So start the podcast. Alright. So now who's the podcast
(25:10):
for? The podcast is for high achieving women. This is my
definition of the high achieving women. Ambitious in a positive
way. Responsible. She's the one that people
come to her for advice or just to kind of hear what she has to
say about the situation in her professional life and in her
personal life, whether it's family, community, neighbor,
(25:33):
they wanna hear from her, whether it's related to something she could do or
not. She's the one. And I see you
nodding as in recognition. And she's good at a couple things.
And so she's doing all the things and she's enjoying it. So it's for her.
But now she's at this point where she feels like I
have success, but I'm unfulfilled. It's empty.
(25:55):
Something's missing. So I bring people like you on the
podcast who had a journey and came through the tough
times because it's not easy. You know, we're talking about some of the highlights, but
I know it wasn't always easy to get here, to be where you are.
But she's still there. So what can you say to her from
either your personal experience or your professional experience
(26:17):
that might just, uplift her, encourage her, or give
her something to think about. Yeah. I love that
description. And, in my world, I call them the hurdle
jumpers. Right? They put the hurdle in front and they jump it because it's there.
And I did a lot of that in my my life, and I think I
have the luxury at this stage of my life to be able to say,
(26:39):
I don't know if I like that hurdle. It's not my color. It's not
the right height. Like, a little bit more pondering. And I think
as women, you know, these capable women I'd I'm gonna answer your question, but
I'm gonna come around to it. I I think there's, like, a blessing and a
curse of being a capable woman. In my podcast, I talk about
helping number twos become number ones in life and work
(27:01):
because finally, I often get pigeonholed into this number two role
where they're doing everything for everyone else, and it's
so deeply a defined part of them. You have a problem, you go talk to
Jenny. You have a problem, you need to go talk to rock doctor Robin. And
it it becomes almost like an identity. It's very
hard. It becomes in in entrenched. And so if
(27:23):
that resonates with you and the second part of it is that
there's some burning something that's unmet, unfulfilled,
or, you know, that phrase, I thought it would be different when I got this
or that. That's your chance to kind of go
inward or, you know, have a date with yourself. I'll often say to
people, like, have a date. Go to the spa and just
(27:45):
have dinner with yourself and keep your notebook close by. I mean, I'm
I have a lot of trouble slowing down. I'm a I'm a Speedy Gonzales,
and I like to move, and I I like to do things. And that's
another indicator. Right? Often, it's hard for well, I'm talking for
myself to be with my own thoughts because they're all over and they're full of
it. Right? Almost like I feel like
(28:08):
I'm too big for my britches or my how could I possibly want
that, your point about the radio? So I'd invite folks
to to get quiet because it doesn't have to be so
dramatic. It's not like you have to throw the whole job out sometimes.
Sometimes it's about doing some tweaks so that the work
itself is more fulfilling. Or maybe it is
(28:30):
changing portfolios. Absolutely. But sometimes there's a lot more
balance and nuance there. And maybe the other one I would
say is just from a personal experience, volunteering.
Getting on a different community of people when you're stuck
and you feel like you have no options because often your salary
is tied to your livelihood, and that feels really scary.
(28:53):
Getting out and seeing how other people live or experience the
world can be very uplifting because we do get into
these narratives of this is how the world is. And you know what? It's
a big place, and there's lots more options out there. So
interrupting your thought patterns and getting into some different communities
are two great ways to start thinking about what's most
(29:16):
important to you and not to everybody else in your world that has
a, little, rental space on your ear.
That's right. Be true to you. That's really valuable
insights that you're sharing. I mean, Jenny, you've been so generous.
Well, I was just gonna say, and if this is really scary and you have
no idea what you want, I just wanna say that out loud because
(29:37):
I get it. And and maybe you've been here too. Like, you know, you you
give and devote your time to this career and you've raised a family
and suddenly it's it's quiet and it's could be really
unnerving. Like, how can I not know myself at all?
And I just I just wanna say to that person, it's okay.
It's a process. It took you twenty years to get here, so let's give
(30:00):
yourself two or three to to play a little bit more. I just wanted to
say that because sometimes we think they're these light bulb
moments and maybe it's just a progression. Yeah. I love that
you said that. And it was almost like you were reading my mind because Really?
I was gonna ask you, is there anything else? And then you're
like, yeah, there is. But I'm gonna do it one more. It's like, you know,
(30:22):
a PS and then a PS. Okay. So is there anything that
I didn't ask you directly about that might be on your
heart? And you're just like, well, yeah, I just have this one more thing or
one more thought. If not, it's okay. But I wanna give you the opportunity before
we tell people how they can be in touch with you. Oh, I love this.
I believe that we are
(30:43):
almost always so much stronger,
braver, more creative, more curious, more
inspiring, and more capable than we give ourselves
credit for. And the funny part is with women, they
give it so generously to others. And so
my invitation is I'm getting goosebumps, oh, that they turn even
(31:06):
just a tenth of that on themselves and and believe and trust in
themselves, because we are so much more capable than
we give ourselves credit for. I'm glad I opened up the door for that
one. I felt it too as you were
feeling it. I felt it. Now for those who feel like, oh, I wanna hear
more. I wanna hear more. How can they be in touch with you? My
(31:28):
pleasure. So my website is chavender.com, which is
chavenderlikelavender, spelled like lavender. You can also find me on
LinkedIn, Jenny Mitchell, but I will say there's a lot of Jenny Mitchell's, so
you may wanna look for Chavender instead. And I guess I would just
really encourage folks to hop over to the podcast too if you enjoyed the our
conversation, Underdog Leadership. And the reason I called it
(31:51):
Underdog Leadership, doctor Robin, just to set it up is I
really believe that this change that's happening in the world, this
new it's not new paradigm of leadership, but just different paradigm
of leadership. I believe folks that have been dismissed
or left for number twos or pigeonholed because of the
experiences they've had, they're perfectly positioned to lead
(32:13):
in this this new world. And I I wanna be somebody who elevates those
voices. And I'm sure you are doing that over and
over again in all you do. So thank you for your
work and for being here. Thank you for the opportunity, and and thanks
everyone for listening. Been a joy. Okay, everyone. I'd
love to hear your response to this episode, any comments you have,
(32:36):
or just follow me on LinkedIn because I just wanna see what
you're up to and you could see what we're up to here. I'm
mostly on LinkedIn, but all the social media at
Robin L Owens PhD, at Robin L Owens PhD.
And until next time, this is Dr.
Robin. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the
(32:58):
Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast. If you
enjoyed it, head on over and rate and subscribe
so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop
every week, and I can't wait to hang out with you again
soon. Meanwhile, this is
Dr Robin signing off. See you next time.
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Dr Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin L Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in
(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership
(00:47):
Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here and
you take time to listen into the podcast. And because you've been listening to
the podcast so faithfully, we've been ranked in the top
5% of all podcasts globally according to
Listen Notes. So thank you for listening in. And I encourage you as
always to continue to help us keep it going. Rate,
(01:09):
review, and subscribe to the podcast. That would be a big help. All right.
Now, today, I'm talking with Jenny
Mitchell. Now, let me tell you a little bit about Jenny. Jenny
Mitchell is the author of the book In Embracing
Ambition, Empowering Women to Step Out, Be
Seen, and Lead. She is the chief visionary
(01:31):
officer of Chavender, where she works closely with leaders
to change the world one mission at a time. She's
a dynamic speaker, executive coach, fundraising
professional, and my favorite, host of the Underdog
Leadership podcast. Penny's passion for inspiring
excellence and others guided her from a career
(01:53):
as a classical pianist into leadership coaching. I
can't wait to hear about that story. Just can't wait.
Drawing on years of experience as a professional musician, she strives to bring
creativity, energy, and excellence to everything she does.
Welcome, Jenny Mitchell. Oh. Thank you
very much, Doctor. Robin. It's a pleasure to be here with you and your audience.
(02:17):
I'm glad you're here. Okay. So now you heard me read your
official sort of bio intro, but tell us in your own words
more about who you are and then what you do. So I
guess I would call myself an obsessed, curious person,
and I can remember right from the beginning just
really enjoying and and learning from other people.
(02:39):
And, you know, the things that matter to me, doctor Robin, at this stage of
my life are my family, my purpose. I
believe in women's leadership. I believe in a new paradigm
of leadership where we have variety of ways we
lead, not one, not another, but always that we lead. And
on a personal note, I have a a COVID cat. I have a
(03:01):
dog. I have two beautiful daughters that are a lot of my purpose in life,
and I'm a ridiculously avid tennis player. Oh,
wow. Good for you. You know, when you said tennis,
I just thought about the one tennis lesson I had, and I really enjoyed it.
Maybe I'll have another one. Well, and tennis
is a great, transition sport for us
(03:23):
addictive, obsessive people. Like, we're gonna talk more about piano
performance later on, I'm sure, in the podcast. And, tennis
has this wonderful combination of technique, like craft,
exercise, and social. So it's like this
trifecta for me. And fun fact, tennis is one of those
few sports that they say from the research can add ten years to your
(03:46):
life. I'll see. I have to get back. Lesson two
on my calendar. Say no more. Say no more, Jenny Mitchell.
I'm going back for my second lesson. Alright. So, you know, I
hinted at this a little bit in your introduction, but tell us how
you came to do the work you're doing. Yeah. And it's a it's
a okay. Put your seat belts on people. It's gotta look a lot of I'm
(04:08):
ready. I'm ready. It's got some pin what do you call those things? Switchbacks.
I guess they call them when you go up the hill. Everything in Italy seems
to be at the top of a hill. Anything worth seeing is at the top
of the hill. So I I wanna bring our listeners back to a
bright eyed, curious young lady who went to high school
and had options. I was very lucky to have
(04:28):
parents that said, you know, you do what you wanna do. And I
while I looked at many options out of high school, I knew
that music was the one thing or the thing I thought would be bottomless, that
it would be able to kind of peak my curiosity indefinitely. And
I was good at it, to be honest. I I like to jump hurdles. So
I completed a undergraduate degree in piano performance at a
(04:51):
very prestigious school here in Canada. And from
there, I went, okay. What's next? Most of my friends were doing
masters, and I'm I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I kind of was like,
where's the next hurdle? Let's jump the next hurdle. I didn't do a ton of
thinking. I was also pretty young. Did a master's at Manhattan School
of Music, which your listeners will recognize that's up on the Upper West Side
(05:12):
Of New York City. And from there, got into a
doctorate program in at SUNY Stony Brook, which is out on Long Island,
and completed my doctorate there, just around, the year
February. And all of those experiences were
incredible, doctor Robin. I wouldn't change them from the world.
And when you ask about the colonels of my story, I
(05:35):
think about the discipline I learned. I think about the connections
and the camaraderie that we had in those those departments
because nobody goes into music for money. People go into music for
the experience. The kind of self discipline that I
found in myself and and learned and I would
also call, like, you know, it's it's not an easy
(05:56):
profession. It's, it's insatiable, the amount of time you can spend in
a practice room. But by the time I finished my doctorate, I
knew I was not meant to be in a room 10 by
10 by myself practicing piano. I had I was far too chatty,
to be honest. That was the first part. And second of all, I had other
interests. I was always the person that organized people. I was always the person
(06:19):
that brought people together to do things. And when I
started my family, I fell into fundraising
at the Brooklyn Conservatory of Music where I was teaching,
and I got involved with a fundraising day event for the
pianos. And I'll be honest. Like, I was kinda hooked. It was like,
okay. So we all come together. We make the world a better place. We make
(06:41):
effort. Money's raised, and we can buy things, like,
in this case, better pianos. I was like, this is awesome. Like, I
loved the team, and I loved getting to know the people and
understanding how their strengths could contribute to the team. And
so I know from your work, you will you can totally relate.
Right? Team building. I was doing team building in a different structure. I
(07:02):
love everything about this story. I have 25,000 thoughts
competing right now. But first, let me give a nod to
Manhattan School of Music because I used to live in New York on the
Upper West Side Oh my gosh. And the bus stop right outside of my
building was right next door to the Manhattan School of Music. And this
really is related to our overall story here, but, you know it'd be
(07:25):
11:00 at night or midnight no matter what time it was if somebody
was from this Manhattan School of Music and they were at the bus stop they
would be singing nobody's around they're just singing out
and I loved it And what I made up about
that was when you have a passion in you, it has to come out.
So you're just at the bus stop and it's coming out, and it was beautiful,
(07:47):
you know, a variety of sounds from from those people.
So I had that memory when you talked about being in New
York. Oh, I'm so happy to hear that. And, you
probably know the deli where I survived on, chicken
parmesan sandwiches with my meager skills or my my
meager dollars when I was studying there. And because your podcast is about
(08:08):
passion and purpose, you know, we're gonna talk more about how I shifted
away from music. And I think one of the things that that brought me to
it was the expectations around being a classical
musician and the pressure, I'm gonna call it that. And that was self
imposed. I don't think anybody was really breathing down my neck,
but I also realized that there were other things I wanted to do. So I
(08:30):
think that's important for your listeners to hear because I had this niggle
that not so much is this all there is, but
more like, what else is there? Or it I, like, I
was, again, very curious, and I I'm grateful for the
experience. I just think an arts degree is so just any kind of
arts degree, not just just broaden it to help you understand
(08:52):
how you think, how you critical think, and the world is full of
people. So I think it's unrealistic to think you can go through the world without
learning how to work with and alongside people. Yeah.
Yeah. I love that. Alright. So now let's go back to the point where you
fell upon fundraising. You know, I
I see the I I'm seeing the dots here already. Alright. So did
(09:15):
someone ask you to participate in this fundraiser? How did you get connected with
the fundraiser? It's a great question. That first one that opened up your eyes.
Yeah. So definitely somebody her name was Jeri Mayer. It's so funny. I remember
that name. And she invited me to be on the committee and to be a
volunteer. And, it was a big gala. And, you know, this was
shiny for me. I was young. This is New York City. We're talking like the
(09:36):
heyday of New York City. Right, Robin? We're talking Yes. You know, things were
fun, man. And, you know, the the the experiences
were big. The money was big. And so I'm volunteering. I put
together the silent auction. And at the same time, I was taking a course
at NYU. I took a introduction to fundraising course. And I do wanna set
the stage that at the time, I had just delivered my first baby, and I
(09:59):
was very actively it's funny. We talk about purpose, but also,
like, lifestyle. I don't think I ever really thought much when I was in school
about what kind of lifestyle I wanted. And once I became a
musician, I realized, okay. So my work is all evenings and weekends, and my
husband works a banking job that's nine to whatever, and this
is not gonna work. Right? Like, this is there's a problem here.
(10:21):
And so I was actively looking for daytime hours. I remember walking
around my apartment saying, okay. How do I find a job that's
during the day, and what skills are transferable? And I
knew I could write because I did have a had written a dissertation, and
I knew I could put sentences together. So I the one of the first steps
I took was taking a grant writing course, and I I started writing
(10:42):
grants and grant applications because that was a skill I had.
And that was kind of the first foray to your point,
between the courses, which by the way was just I would get on I lived
in Brooklyn. I would get on the subway. And if anybody out there has had
a six week or a three month old baby, and I was by myself for
two and a half hours, and I would go into the city and listen and
(11:03):
learn. Learning's a big it's actually, one of my,
defining features. Like, if you look at my strengths finder, learner is very
high, and I would come home, and it was just like this magical
experience I'm so grateful for. I'm
relate. I'm laughing because I can relate to just being that learner and
for you not having time, but then having a chunk of time where you can
(11:27):
focus on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's wonderful. Alright. So we have some
nuggets already for the listener. You never know someone
where it comes from. Like someone recognized in you that you
could do this work. Even though it was a volunteer role, I'm sure they didn't
ask just anyone. So there was something that they recognized in you. So for people
to pay attention when other people ask them for help or to do
(11:50):
things. I was gonna say, and I'm gonna pick up on that too, that I
really said yes to something I knew nothing about. And in
my experience, that's been one of the differentiators,
you know, to I could have said I'm not ready. I don't know how to
do it. I could have deferred to someone else. I said, sure. What
the heck? And often, Jenny Mitchell says, and how hard can that be? And
(12:11):
then I find out how hard it could be. Right? But go for
it. Like, I think not wildly and not, like, crazily, doctor
Robin, but, you know, if you don't put yourself out there
and try things, you won't know, and you won't have a a dataset
to compare yourself to. I agree. I agree.
Okay. So you you did this fundraiser. You participated
(12:34):
in it, and it sounds like that's when the energy started to rise in
you. Then what happened? How did how did it
impact your journey and when? For sure. So there's somewhere along the line
where I go, oh, this is a profession. I can actually do this. This is
a thing. Because I think a lot of people fall into fund development and
fundraising. So then what's interesting is we
(12:56):
ended up moving back to Canada. So I'm originally I'm from Canada, and I'm
Canadian. And it was a bit of a tumble. It was a bit of
a chaotic tumble back to Canada, and I had two little babies.
And I'm like, okay. So who am I? Like,
literally, who am I besides the mother of these two children because I've been out
of the country for so long. And I start to define for
(13:18):
myself what I am and what I wanna do. And I remember one
moment waking up and going, okay. There's a
fundraising conference coming up, and I know no one because I'm
just new. And I'm like, okay. I'm just gonna go show up,
and I'm gonna meet people. And I had this idea that I could work part
time because the kids are pretty young. And so I basically went with the intention
(13:39):
of I'm gonna meet as many consultants as I can, and I'm gonna find out
if there's work for me. And with that intention, I I actually
met my mentor at that conference. I mean, you
know, was somebody looking out for me, or was my intention clear enough? You know,
finding that purpose, that was the next step for me, because I
didn't have my own network. And that relationship, I
(14:02):
visited her this summer. I mean, we've been friends for over twenty years
and I visit her this summer at her house. She's she's traveled and
whatever. So that's kind of a cool story too. Yeah. That's wonderful. But
you had you took the initiative to say I need to be around people.
So that was that was a big step too, a bit of a risk to
just step out into an unknown. Oh, and look, I I don't I
(14:24):
didn't have many clothes. Like, I was like, what fits?
Like shoes, like, where are these things? I was, and I
I remember thinking, it's time to build
my community. It's a time to I'm gonna be here for a while. And
I I want to build a community of people and
and people that I trust. It was very important to me. And so
(14:46):
you said you were asking you were looking for people to to
work with as a consultant. You then saw yourself as a
consultant at that point. Is that where we are in the story? Yeah. So where
we are in the story is I couldn't get my head around a full time
job at the time, and I kept thinking,
well, what do I want? And sometimes I think with particularly with
(15:09):
women, we pull away from what we actually want. We kind of minimize it
or we pretend it's not possible or it's not possible for me.
And I you know, we all have all these stories. And so I guess I
went saying, well, if I could have if I had a magic
wand, what I wanted was a two, three day a week job where I could
work and the work would be meaningful and I could learn.
(15:32):
And, I remember that was that was really my main goal.
And I didn't I so I worked for other consultants. So I was like a
subcontractor for other consultants. And the impact was that I got to
see a lot of different files, which is a great, great
experience for me in particular because I'm not a I don't know if you do
disc assessments or whatever, but I'm not an s or a c. I'm not a
(15:53):
stability girl. I'm not a conscientious girl. I'm more of a, like,
what else is there, girl? I'm the the the quiet the visionary,
the the creative on the scale. So I need
I crave experiences and different experiences. So it was a
real great match made in heaven. I did all sorts of grunt work. I worked
the front lines. I learned from the bottom up. Highly
(16:15):
recommend it. Being a consultant is a very dynamic
thing, and you have to be able to quickly process and absorb
information and make good recommendations. And I did that for
a long time until, switch back in the story,
my mentor, her husband came into the business, and there was no longer enough
work for me. And so I was like,
(16:36):
okay. I guess I put out a website. I make a website
and hang out. Like, it was that kinda like, I guess that's what I do.
And I did that with no knowledge. I had no logo, no
nothing. I built it from scratch and said, let's see what happens.
I mean, that's amazing. I mean, because a lot of people could have just said,
I don't know what to do. Just rely on this person and True. You
(16:59):
know, but you just, once again, put yourself out
there. Yeah. Did you know what you were how
you were gonna shape what you were you when you put the website, you're like,
I'm gonna do this on my own. I mean, I had very little idea, to
be perfectly honest. I think I liken it to when I went to go to
school in music. Who knows what a professional musician does all
(17:20):
day? Right? Like, it's we think about the career. We think about the the
degree, but we don't actually think about the lifestyle. And that's one of the vices
I often give to younger folks is, you know, think about not just
the job that you'll do all day, but the kind of environment in the life.
You know, if you're gonna be a chemical engineer, you're in our world, you're probably
gonna work out out west in in in Canada, or you're gonna work in certain
(17:41):
areas of the country, and you're gonna be on shift work, and you're gonna be,
like, just trying to put into perspective the holistic approach
to a choice rather than just a linear.
So I knew I wanted my independence, and I think it's important for your
listeners to know that my mother ran a small business. So I was
seeped in that background, and my father was a sales rep. So I
(18:03):
came by it honestly. A lot of folks say, oh
my gosh. How did you become an entrepreneur? And I think it's just exposure. I
mean, it takes a certain kind of, that
transition from corporate to entrepreneurship, which I I've helped
some women through. You know, the advice is build up
a war chest and bet on yourself.
(18:27):
Can't go wrong. You can't go wrong. Okay. Alright. So
you bet on yourself and you started your website
and your business was born off and running. Alright. So now fast
forward to this moment and we might go back. Do you feel now that you
are expressing your purpose? I so
love that you asked me that because sometimes it's hard
(18:49):
to step off the roller coaster and take stock. So thank you for that
that opportunity. I was I was preparing sort of my notes.
I finally feel like I am expressing my
purpose and that I am truly in my groove. And how I know it,
because that was I figured you were gonna ask me that question too. How I
know it is that my days
(19:12):
don't feel not that they don't feel stressful, but they even if
they're stressful, there's a reason and there's a there's an intention
behind it. I also feel like my
unique skill set not everybody wants to be a CEO, not everybody wants to be
an entrepreneur, but my unique skill set is perfectly
aligned with the work that I'm doing. I like
(19:35):
as a coach, an executive coach, I like getting to know
people deeply. I care about important conversations.
I respect people. You know, when I heard and we can
talk a little bit about switching from fundraising to coaching because it's it's actually quite
simple. But when I heard of when I did my my first coaching certification
and I realized that the mantra or the approach was
(19:58):
people are all were already whole, that we we come to a coaching space
with the understanding the person in front of us is already capable and whole
and beautiful, and our job is to partner with them. I was
like, that's what was missing from my music background
because the music was so hierarchical, doctor Robin. It was do it
this way. Do it with this inflection. Do it with this school of thought,
(20:20):
and teachers and mentors were so put on
pedestals. I think that was really one of the things that
didn't jive for me in hindsight, but I, I couldn't have told you that until
I, I took my first coaching experience. Makes
sense. It makes sense. So you found the thing that
suited who you are. Yeah. I'll put Yeah. I'll put
(20:42):
And share it as a mission. I've never thought of it that
way. So thank you. I mean, I know it feels good. That's
the other one for your listeners. It just like you know, and and we have
to be careful as coaches. Like, I'm not here in the coaching business to
make myself feel good. Right? My I'm here in the coaching
business to, help support someone through a journey that's
(21:04):
not mine. I think a lot about that, especially because I'm a pleaser,
and I like to do things right, and I like to make people happy. But
being a coach is also asking tough questions and and challenging people's
narratives or stories that they might have about themselves or others.
And I often will check-in at the end of my day, you know, did I
feel like I did more good than harm? Did I do I feel
(21:27):
like I made a difference today? And
I do. I do. Most days, I feel like I can hang
my hat on that, and that is becoming enough for me.
And the not for profit world, the way I thought I would contribute, which was
fund development and raising money, it's I always found
the raising money was great. I was happy with that, but that I always came
(21:49):
back to the people. I always connected the most with the people, and I actually
switched into coaching because the money wasn't enough. I wanted to help
the people change and the people adapt. And the
people, if we worked with them and supported them, they could raise the
money. Yes. Yes. I see how it all flows
together. Now what is there any part of
(22:11):
little Jenny whenever you were little Jenny,
do you see any part of her showing up in the what you're
doing these days? Yeah. So
little Jenny, you ask good questions. Thank you for
that. You know, little Jenny was busy.
Like, she didn't wanna stop to eat.
(22:34):
She was full of ideas. You know, I I think back on
it, She was resourceful. She was very curious.
I would say that what one of the things that happened with
little Jenny was the world happened. And so little Jenny gets a layer
and another layer and another layer, and she learns how to conform in the world.
And I hope your listeners can can see themselves in this
(22:56):
journey. We we survive. I'm a survivor. We we add
these components on top of ourselves to live and
and survive and and exist and coexist. And the
beautiful part about getting older is you start throwing off those layers. You're like, I
don't need that coat. I don't need that costume. I don't need that anymore.
And what's left is this sort of that vibrancy,
(23:18):
that energy. I think I always had a lot of energy and a lot
of enthusiasm, and I was actually people laugh,
but I was a relatively shy kid. I I wasn't the
person to reach out in the classroom, but I almost feel
like I overdid it when I I what I saw as a deficiency
became a superpower because my way to feel comfortable was
(23:41):
to ingratiate and get to know people. And so that
superpower kind of fueled a lot of my work. And at this
stage, you know, I'm not everybody's cup of tea, and that's okay,
doctor Robin. And I'm I'm really good with that because I
do feel aligned with my purpose and that, you know, the people that
wanna meet me and find me or align with me, they'll they'll find me. That's
(24:03):
okay. And I wish the others well. No no ill feelings. That's
right. That's right. I agree with you. I agree with you. So I think that's
true for everyone. You know? I think for everyone, there's no
100%, you know, liking of one person. So I'm
with you. I'm with you. All right. Let's switch gears to
theto the listener. I'll tell you who I think the listener is, and
(24:24):
then, you can share whatever thoughts you want.
All right. So but I started the podcast for what I call High Achieving
Women. But the reason why I started the podcast a couple reasons.
But one, you know, we're talking about doing the thing who
like, that's inside of us. When I was in high school, I had a
fantasy to be on the radio, but I didn't tell anyone because I didn't
(24:47):
know anybody. I didn't even know like, you were talking about you didn't know it
was a job. I didn't know it was a thing. So I'm just like, but
that would be so cool, and I always had that fantasy. So fast
forward years later when podcast became a thing, I'm like, oh,
here's my chance to do something I feel like I would like. And it
was true. I love it, as you might be able to tell. Yeah. I can
tell. So start the podcast. Alright. So now who's the podcast
(25:10):
for? The podcast is for high achieving women. This is my
definition of the high achieving women. Ambitious in a positive
way. Responsible. She's the one that people
come to her for advice or just to kind of hear what she has to
say about the situation in her professional life and in her
personal life, whether it's family, community, neighbor,
(25:33):
they wanna hear from her, whether it's related to something she could do or
not. She's the one. And I see you
nodding as in recognition. And she's good at a couple things.
And so she's doing all the things and she's enjoying it. So it's for her.
But now she's at this point where she feels like I
have success, but I'm unfulfilled. It's empty.
(25:55):
Something's missing. So I bring people like you on the
podcast who had a journey and came through the tough
times because it's not easy. You know, we're talking about some of the highlights, but
I know it wasn't always easy to get here, to be where you are.
But she's still there. So what can you say to her from
either your personal experience or your professional experience
(26:17):
that might just, uplift her, encourage her, or give
her something to think about. Yeah. I love that
description. And, in my world, I call them the hurdle
jumpers. Right? They put the hurdle in front and they jump it because it's there.
And I did a lot of that in my my life, and I think I
have the luxury at this stage of my life to be able to say,
(26:39):
I don't know if I like that hurdle. It's not my color. It's not
the right height. Like, a little bit more pondering. And I think
as women, you know, these capable women I'd I'm gonna answer your question, but
I'm gonna come around to it. I I think there's, like, a blessing and a
curse of being a capable woman. In my podcast, I talk about
helping number twos become number ones in life and work
(27:01):
because finally, I often get pigeonholed into this number two role
where they're doing everything for everyone else, and it's
so deeply a defined part of them. You have a problem, you go talk to
Jenny. You have a problem, you need to go talk to rock doctor Robin. And
it it becomes almost like an identity. It's very
hard. It becomes in in entrenched. And so if
(27:23):
that resonates with you and the second part of it is that
there's some burning something that's unmet, unfulfilled,
or, you know, that phrase, I thought it would be different when I got this
or that. That's your chance to kind of go
inward or, you know, have a date with yourself. I'll often say to
people, like, have a date. Go to the spa and just
(27:45):
have dinner with yourself and keep your notebook close by. I mean, I'm
I have a lot of trouble slowing down. I'm a I'm a Speedy Gonzales,
and I like to move, and I I like to do things. And that's
another indicator. Right? Often, it's hard for well, I'm talking for
myself to be with my own thoughts because they're all over and they're full of
it. Right? Almost like I feel like
(28:08):
I'm too big for my britches or my how could I possibly want
that, your point about the radio? So I'd invite folks
to to get quiet because it doesn't have to be so
dramatic. It's not like you have to throw the whole job out sometimes.
Sometimes it's about doing some tweaks so that the work
itself is more fulfilling. Or maybe it is
(28:30):
changing portfolios. Absolutely. But sometimes there's a lot more
balance and nuance there. And maybe the other one I would
say is just from a personal experience, volunteering.
Getting on a different community of people when you're stuck
and you feel like you have no options because often your salary
is tied to your livelihood, and that feels really scary.
(28:53):
Getting out and seeing how other people live or experience the
world can be very uplifting because we do get into
these narratives of this is how the world is. And you know what? It's
a big place, and there's lots more options out there. So
interrupting your thought patterns and getting into some different communities
are two great ways to start thinking about what's most
(29:16):
important to you and not to everybody else in your world that has
a, little, rental space on your ear.
That's right. Be true to you. That's really valuable
insights that you're sharing. I mean, Jenny, you've been so generous.
Well, I was just gonna say, and if this is really scary and you have
no idea what you want, I just wanna say that out loud because
(29:37):
I get it. And and maybe you've been here too. Like, you know, you you
give and devote your time to this career and you've raised a family
and suddenly it's it's quiet and it's could be really
unnerving. Like, how can I not know myself at all?
And I just I just wanna say to that person, it's okay.
It's a process. It took you twenty years to get here, so let's give
(30:00):
yourself two or three to to play a little bit more. I just wanted to
say that because sometimes we think they're these light bulb
moments and maybe it's just a progression. Yeah. I love that
you said that. And it was almost like you were reading my mind because Really?
I was gonna ask you, is there anything else? And then you're
like, yeah, there is. But I'm gonna do it one more. It's like, you know,
(30:22):
a PS and then a PS. Okay. So is there anything that
I didn't ask you directly about that might be on your
heart? And you're just like, well, yeah, I just have this one more thing or
one more thought. If not, it's okay. But I wanna give you the opportunity before
we tell people how they can be in touch with you. Oh, I love this.
I believe that we are
(30:43):
almost always so much stronger,
braver, more creative, more curious, more
inspiring, and more capable than we give ourselves
credit for. And the funny part is with women, they
give it so generously to others. And so
my invitation is I'm getting goosebumps, oh, that they turn even
(31:06):
just a tenth of that on themselves and and believe and trust in
themselves, because we are so much more capable than
we give ourselves credit for. I'm glad I opened up the door for that
one. I felt it too as you were
feeling it. I felt it. Now for those who feel like, oh, I wanna hear
more. I wanna hear more. How can they be in touch with you? My
(31:28):
pleasure. So my website is chavender.com, which is
chavenderlikelavender, spelled like lavender. You can also find me on
LinkedIn, Jenny Mitchell, but I will say there's a lot of Jenny Mitchell's, so
you may wanna look for Chavender instead. And I guess I would just
really encourage folks to hop over to the podcast too if you enjoyed the our
conversation, Underdog Leadership. And the reason I called it
(31:51):
Underdog Leadership, doctor Robin, just to set it up is I
really believe that this change that's happening in the world, this
new it's not new paradigm of leadership, but just different paradigm
of leadership. I believe folks that have been dismissed
or left for number twos or pigeonholed because of the
experiences they've had, they're perfectly positioned to lead
(32:13):
in this this new world. And I I wanna be somebody who elevates those
voices. And I'm sure you are doing that over and
over again in all you do. So thank you for your
work and for being here. Thank you for the opportunity, and and thanks
everyone for listening. Been a joy. Okay, everyone. I'd
love to hear your response to this episode, any comments you have,
(32:36):
or just follow me on LinkedIn because I just wanna see what
you're up to and you could see what we're up to here. I'm
mostly on LinkedIn, but all the social media at
Robin L Owens PhD, at Robin L Owens PhD.
And until next time, this is Dr.
Robin. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the
(32:58):
Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast. If you
enjoyed it, head on over and rate and subscribe
so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop
every week, and I can't wait to hang out with you again
soon. Meanwhile, this is
Dr Robin signing off. See you next time.
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