What can being 6'7" tall teach us about effective leadership? As it turns out, quite a lot. Steve Bowler—known professionally as "Stand Tall Steve"—joins us to share how his physical height became the foundation for a powerful leadership philosophy that's transforming school cultures across the country.
Steve reveals three profound parallels between tall people and great leaders: they naturally stand out rather than blend in, they possess a unique perspective that helps guide others, and they learn to persevere through discomfort rather than avoid challenges. Through a touching personal story about his dramatic growth spurt in eighth grade and the friend who told him to "stop trying to be small," Steve illustrates how embracing our unique attributes—rather than hiding them—becomes the foundation for authentic leadership.
The conversation takes a deep dive into what truly drives positive school transformation. Steve articulates the crucial distinction between compliance (following rules) and commitment (pursuing excellence regardless of obstacles). He unpacks a clear framework for understanding school climate and culture, explaining how emotions, traditions, operations, and behaviors interconnect to create environments where students and teachers either thrive or struggle.
For school leaders, Steve offers practical wisdom through four essential strategies: deep listening, over-communication, balanced accessibility, and mastering the five levels of decision-making. Each approach helps leaders align their school's practices with shared values, creating stable, positive environments where meaningful growth happens.
Whether you're an educator, administrator, or leader in any field, you'll gain actionable insights about creating cultures of commitment rather than mere compliance. Follow Steve's work through his new book "An Educator's Guide to Improving Climate and Culture" and discover how standing tall in your leadership can elevate everyone around you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Colley (00:13):
here we are another episode shift, that
podcast coming to you.
Um, I have a great guest today,steve bowler.
Um, he's an author, educator,thoughtcaster, I mean.
The list goes on and on and on.
Check out his website, I'llinclude it in the show notes.
And he goes by the persona ofStan Tall Steve, and I assume
(00:37):
that's because he's tall.
But I'm going to let Steve kindof fill in those gaps.
So, stan Tall Steve, where didthis come from Steve?
Yeah, in those gaps.
So, stand tall Steve, where didthis come from Steve?
Steve Bollar (00:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, First of all, hey man, thanks so
much for having me.
Chris Colley (00:49):
This is exciting.
Oh, it's a pleasure.
Steve Bollar (00:50):
I love chatting it up with some great people.
Who knows what it's all about.
Yeah, my name is Steve Bowler.
I go by Stand Tall Steve and itis because I am a tall guy.
I am six foot seven, six seven,you know, black guy, bald head.
I look like a basketball player, but I'm not.
My name is Steve.
(01:11):
I do stand tall.
It all kind of works welltogether, where this all kind of
came about.
I really got into speaking andtraining and consulting and such
, and a lot of people who are inspeaking they use their name.
You know, hey, I am SteveBowler, speaker or whatever.
You know, chris.
(01:31):
So I was thinking I needed apersona.
I needed something that cankind of hook some people and
being tall is a major part of mylife, specifically the way that
I look.
I look like someone who shouldbe on the basketball court but
I'm not.
And it really defined who I wasgrowing up as a youth, to a
teenager, to a young adult, tonow even being an adult, and so
(01:55):
therefore, you know that standtall piece.
I was talking with some otherspeakers and we kind of came up
with that persona but it workswell because it connects
directly to the message that Ishare with everyone.
Chris Colley (02:06):
I like the idea too I think I heard you mention
this that because of your heightalso, you stand out.
But you can see over everythingyou know, kind of that
leadership eye on the prize ofkeeping all the eggs together
there.
Yeah, I really like that.
That's really cool.
Steve Bollar (02:24):
It's a major piece of what I say.
Like when I go out and I speak,I talk about leadership.
Specifically, I talk about K-12schools.
That's my main area Culture andclimate leadership development,
idea development.
So, as it relates to leadership, I connect the world of tall
people to the world ofleadership.
And number one tall people.
(02:45):
We don't blend in.
Like we don't blend in.
You look into a crowd, we popout right away, you can't miss
us.
Same thing with leaders.
It's not your job to blend in,and I say that to leaders A lot
of times.
Leaders are like well, I'm justlike everybody else.
No, that's why you're a leader.
Yes, you connect with otherpeople, you feel welcome, but
(03:06):
there's a reason why you standout and so, therefore, you need
to embrace that.
There was a time when I wasyounger where it would bother me
greatly that I stood out somuch.
No, that's my job.
The job is to stand out.
Another thing about leaders isleaders.
I mean with tall people, wehave a different view of the
world, right, like, just likeyou said, we're in a crowd, we
can see everything.
Like you know other people andI always give the example you
(03:31):
know how many people have beenin a crowd with a tall friend
right.
And what do you do?
You put your tall friend to thefront.
You grab their hand or theirshoulder.
You say go.
And off they go and they pullyou through.
That's because they have adifferent view.
They can see the vision.
They can see where it is thatyou need to go.
They can plan things out.
Same thing with leadership.
You know, with leaders you haveto have that vision.
It's a vision, is a picture offuture success, a compelling
(03:53):
picture of future success, apositive picture of future
success.
So you have that vision andyou're taking everybody where
they need to go, you're sharingthe vision with them and moving
them forward.
And the last thing about beingtall and leadership is I say
that you know, tall people wedon't fit.
We don't fit in the world.
(04:13):
You know, I don't fit in cars,airplanes, doorways, ceiling
fans, shower heads, spider websthese are all issues in the
world of tall people.
We just we don't fit.
But here's the thing, worldit's all people.
We just we don't fit.
But here's the thing, eventhough we don't fit, do we give
up?
No, we can't give up.
Like I travel all over theworld because I work with
schools all over the place andsometimes I have to get into
(04:34):
tiny little airplanes, like Imean, I almost, on my hands and
knees, try to get to my seat, Idon't walk up to the plane and
go.
You know what it's really small, I'm not gonna go.
No, suck it up, buttercup,let's go.
You know what it's really small, I'm not going to go no suck it
up, buttercup, let's go.
You know it's a littleuncomfortable, but you got to
make it work.
Same thing with leadership it'snot always going to work, it's
not always going to fit.
(04:55):
You're going to have to beuncomfortable sometimes, but
guess what?
Suck it up, buttercup, let's go.
That's the role so that's how Iconnect the world of tall people
to leadership, just to kind ofgive a different perspective and
understanding, Like you knowwhat.
Yeah, there's someself-personal responsibility.
I'm not supposed to alwaysblend in with everyone else.
I do have to have a vision ofwhere it is.
I'm going and take people thereand it's going to be tough and
(05:17):
uncomfortable at times, but thisis the role that I have Amazing
.
Chris Colley (05:20):
Amazing, I love it .
Amazing, amazing, I love it, Ilove it.
I think it just works so welltoo.
I love how you married thosetwo together, um, so well.
I always like to kind of startoff, steve, with with.
Can you give me some tippingpoints that happened in your
career so far that kind ofbrought you to where you are now
?
Um, do you have some of thosestories that a moment or an
(05:42):
encounter or that kind ofchanged your trajectory of, of
your career, my career, my life,yeah, everything.
Steve Bollar (05:50):
I mean, you know, there there are.
There is a lot of differentones.
I mean, truthfully, if you wantto go way back, it was eighth
grade.
Uh, you know, talk about careerand life and everything.
Eighth grade was the year thateverything went nuts for me.
Uh, at the beginning of eighthgrade I was five foot.
At the beginning of eighthgrade I was five foot eight.
At the end of eighth grade Iwas six foot two.
Five, eight, six, two.
(06:10):
So that's seven inches.
That's a lot of growth in oneyear.
Now, usually when kids gothrough their growth spurt they
get what?
Three, two, three million fourinches.
I had seven.
It hurt, it was rough.
So I mean I was at big feet, Iwas tripping over myself, my
knees hurt, my legs hurt, myback hurt, my arms hurt.
I had chest pains.
(06:32):
Because my chest was alwayshurting I had to wear like a
Holtzer monitor.
My parents took me to thedoctor.
You know I was.
I was hunched over.
You know you ever see someonewho's hunched over doesn't stand
up straight, because I wasembarrassed of how tall I was
and how much I stood out fromeveryone around me.
So eighth grade was a roughyear for me.
(06:52):
So I was in school and I waswalking home from school.
One day I was walking home witha friend of mine.
Her name was Danielle, soDanielle lived over on 7th
Street, I lived over on 9thStreet, and so as we get to 7th
Street, danielle, she told me tostay still.
And I'm like what's going on?
She said you know, just staythere.
She walked behind me, she puther hand on my shoulder and then
(07:13):
she balled up her fist andpunched me in the middle of my
back and I was like you knowwhat is wrong with you and
everything.
If you hold the shoulder, punchthe back, what happens?
You arch your back up andbackup right.
And, as I said, I was hunchedover so much.
And she said to me she said,steve, you're a tall person,
stop trying to be small, standtall.
That's when it clicked.
That's when I was like, oh, mygoodness, what in the world am I
(07:36):
doing?
What I mean that moment?
I mean I remember it.
So you know those moments inlife that you remember crystal
clear you remember the smell thethe temperature the everything?
yes, totally, it was that momentand I stood there and I looked
at her like, yes, why in theworld am I doing this?
(07:56):
Now let me explain.
Let me explain my family.
All right, let me talk about myfamily my father's six foot six
.
My mom's five foot ten.
My brother's six foot six.
My sister's five foot ten, myuh, my grandfather six foot ten.
Like he's a giant.
I'm going to be tall, bro, youknow there was no getting away
(08:17):
from that, that was just likesealed but here I am trying to
fight it, and it took herpunching in my back for me to
realize this.
So at that moment I kind ofchanged the way that I carried
myself.
It was instantaneous confidencein who it is that I was
embracing, who I am, and thatkind of changed everything.
(08:38):
Now, granted, I didn't know aton about leadership and the
whole world and everything Imean, I was student body
president and stuff like that,you know young leader but that
changed everything, my overallpersona of of so, so much.
Chris Colley (08:53):
So that was the seed was planted right there,
steve, at that moment Likeamazing, that's such a great
story and that kind of changedthat, that that whole piece of
who I am and what I, what I amRight.
Right, and you talk about change, right, and I really feel like
that story you just said has alot to do with mindset, right,
(09:13):
like changing the way you seethings.
You know from something veryfixed this is who I am, it's all
you know.
I have no control over it too.
I have power, I can do stuff.
How do you, how do you developa mindset?
How do you encourage educatorsyou know in your leadership
roles, to have that capacity orto be aware of that capacity?
(09:36):
Because I do believe someteachers just believe no, this
is who I am, I don't learnanymore, I can't do anything
else.
This is who I am.
Yeah, in reality, that's.
We know that that's not thecase.
Can you expand on that a littlebit of like, how do you?
get those mindsets, moreinstilled into the openness of,
we could do anything we want.
Steve Bollar (09:56):
We can make this happen.
Now, there are parameters,obviously, that we have in
schools, but you're right, it'sa mindset.
You can work within thoseparameters and make things
possible.
One of the things I talk prettyheavily on and actually, no, I
don't talk heavily on, I hit itand I leave it where it is, but
it changes everybody's mindsetand perception quickly is I say
(10:16):
to them are you at compliance orcommitment?
Are you at compliance orcommitment?
Compliance Schools are verycompliance-based organizations.
Right, we have outlines, wehave rules, we have expectations
, and so a lot of educators rolland work within the compliance
mindset.
This is what you tell me to do.
(10:38):
This is what I will do, asopposed to being in a commitment
mindset.
So, compliance you're talkingabout rules, laws, policies.
You know all those things.
Commitment mindset you'rethinking of, you know whatever
it takes.
Possibilities are endless.
(10:59):
I can do this.
What's another way of thinkingabout this?
Because when you're committedto something, you'll go above
and beyond.
Your whole mindset shifts likewell, I'm committed to these
kids, I'm committed to myprofession, I'm committed to
this community, and if I'mcommitted to it, I'm going to
keep looking.
I'm committed to my profession,I'm committed to this community
, and if I'm committed to it,I'm going to keep looking, I'm
going to keep trying thingsdifferently, Whereas you're
compliant.
You're like okay, tell me whatyou need me to do, I'll do that.
(11:22):
I've got my ducks in a row.
And then, when you're doneputting the ducks in a row, that
they tell you to.
Well, I did what you told me todo.
Well, your kids aren'tsuccessful.
I told you, I did what you toldme to do.
I've yet to see any school, anydistrict, any classroom, any
teacher be outrageouslysuccessful just being compliant,
(11:43):
Just compliant, just compliant.
That's all you got.
Compliant.
If you're just being because tome compliance is accomplishment
it's a lower level ofaccomplishment.
So if you want to be more orget better outcomes, feel good
about yourself.
You can't just be compliant.
You've got to be committed.
And when you're committed now,you're going to get some things.
(12:05):
So that's the first thing thatI do.
I make sure that educatorsunderstand what that's about.
The second thing I do is, whenI said I talk about culture,
climate, leadership and ideas,is I like to share ideas?
I share so many ideas.
One of my books that I have iscalled Ideas, ideas, ideas,
which is a ton of differentideas.
When people hear differenttypes of ideas, different ways
(12:29):
of thinking, then they realizethe possibilities.
Oh, you could do that.
Oh, that's possible.
Oh, someone else tried it.
Oh, so once they realize thatit can be done, other people
have tried it differently it'salmost like giving them a
subliminal permission to stepinto the commitment realm, to
(12:52):
step into the idea realm, tostep into the commitment realm,
to step into the idea realm.
A lot of times the teachers,they just need permission to do
so.
They've been stuck incompliance so long they don't
have the permission, and thepermission comes when they see
and look beyond their walls andhear about other ideas
Absolutely Well, and I do thinkour institution is very.
Chris Colley (13:11):
You know right and wrong.
I mean, you got the rightanswer.
You got the wrong answer right.
Like that's our foundationalpractice, really Right Testing,
info test, info test.
So I love what you're saying toSteve, like the mindset too of
and we talked a little bit aboutthis one before we hopped on
(13:33):
here where you were talkingabout climate and culture, and I
found that that was when I waslooking through your materials
in your books and like it seemslike that's at the forefront of
a lot of what you talk about is.
Could you, could you, um,elaborate on on that, like
climbing culture, what?
What is that in a school andand how can we influence it
(13:55):
absolutely?
Steve Bollar (13:56):
climbing a culture .
It's who it is.
It is the bedrock of ofeverything that can take place
within any organization,especially a school, and if
you're not purposeful incrafting the culture and climate
, you're just what are you doing?
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
Come on, you got to bepurposeful in it, and the thing
(14:17):
is a lot of people don't knowwhat to do to be purposeful with
it.
So let's break everything downfirst, to begin with.
So the anchor to culture andclimate is clearly identifying
what you respect and value.
What is it that youcollectively everyone respect
and value?
I go to schools a lot and I sayto them if I was to talk to
everyone in this building allthe teachers, aides,
(14:40):
administration, support staff,students, parents and ask them
hey, what do we respect, what doyou respect and value in this
organization?
Would everyone say the samething?
Nope, nope.
I've yet to find any schoolthat says, yeah, we all say the
exact same thing about respectand value.
So that's the first step is tofind out what do we collectively
respect and value, and there'smany different ways you can go
(15:01):
about doing that.
So let's say that you worktogether within your
organization and you come upwith teamwork, integrity and
accountability.
All right, so we're going to gowith those three things we all
collectively respect and valueteamwork, integrity,
accountability.
So let's go to, and that'sgoing to be our anchor.
So let's go to climate.
(15:21):
What is climate?
Climate is the emotional statepeople feel when they enter a
space.
So how do they feel when theywalk into the school?
How do they feel when they walkinto a classroom?
You know, it's the mood, it'sthe feeling, right, of how they
feel.
That's why we call the weatheroutside the climate.
(15:43):
You walk out, you feel it.
We're emotional creatures.
That's what climate is.
Now, climate fluctuates, right,it changes month to month, week
to week Day to day, sometimesDay to day, minute to minute,
second to second.
Sometimes right, like I wouldtell people the climate at the
beginning of the school year isdifferent than the climate
(16:04):
before testing, right?
Yes, it just is a differentclimate.
I could walk into one classroomfeels great.
Walk into another classroomfeels bad.
That's climate.
So when you think of climate,it kind of fluctuates.
Sometimes it's close to whatyou say, you respect and value,
sometimes it's not.
That's climate.
(16:25):
Now there's culture.
What is culture?
Culture is really?
It's just a fancy word fortraditions.
That's what culture really is.
Culture is a culmination oftradition and practices that
happen within a school.
That's what culture is.
So let's say you're going to goon holiday, you're going on
vacation, and you say, oh, I'mgoing to go to this other
(16:46):
country, it's going to be sowonderful, I want to get
immersed into the culture.
You want to get immersed intothe traditional things that
country does.
It's traditional things.
Same thing in a school.
What traditional things arehappening that create the
culture?
Now, there are two differenttypes of culture.
There's your operationalculture and then there's your
behavioral culture.
Your operational culture, thatone, that's how you operate.
(17:11):
How do you traditionally operate?
How do kids come in thebuilding?
How do they move in thehallways?
No-transcript.
(17:34):
How do people traditionallybehave?
How do they talk to each other?
How much is tolerated right?
How do students talk tostudents?
How do students talk toteachers?
How do teachers talk tostudents?
How do students talk toadministrators?
How do administrators talk tostudents?
How do administrators talk toteachers, like, how do everybody
interact with each othertraditionally over time?
(17:56):
Okay, we have all of our parts.
So let's do and imagine.
I know everybody's listening,but I want you to imagine what
it is that I'm saying to you.
So let's say we have thisdiagram.
In the middle of this diagramis what you say you respect and
value Teamwork, integrity,accountability.
Those are the anchors Now,wrapped around those three words
(18:18):
waving up and down.
Is the climate right?
Because we know sometimes it'sclose to it, sometimes it's not
close to it, it bounces around.
Then let's think about twoparallel lines, horizontal
parallel lines, one above, onebelow.
The one above is yourbehavioral culture, the one
below is your operationalculture.
(18:40):
Here's the thing Our goal is toget the climate to feel good,
because we're emotionalcreatures.
It's all about that climate.
We want to feel good regularly.
In order to get that climate tobe stable, close to what we
respect and value, you have towork on the culture.
Right.
That culture, that behavioralculture and your operational
(19:00):
culture have to be in alignmentwith teamwork, integrity and
accountability.
Your operations isn't inalignment with teamwork,
integrity and accountability.
Hold people accountable to that.
Are the behaviors in alignmentwith teamwork, integrity and
accountability?
And when they are that crazywavy line of climate, it shrinks
down.
It shrinks down closer to whatit is you respect and value.
(19:24):
And when your climate, theemotions, are connected to what
you respect and value teamwork,integrity and accountability,
people are happy, students arehappy, teachers are happy,
communities are happy,administrators are happier.
Now it's still going to wave.
You know that climate, but itwon't be big swells like oh,
we're out of control, the moraleis bad, hold people accountable
(19:48):
.
And it leans on the leadership.
It leans on the teachers to doit to each other and eventually
it trickles down to the students, where they're doing it to each
other, where they're holdingeach other accountable to.
This is who we are.
We're about teamwork, integrity, accountability or whatever the
three words that you're goingto anchor it to.
Right, right, right.
So I know that's kind of a long, roundabout way, but that's
what climate and culture reallyis, and it's possible, it is
(20:10):
totally doable, to make a schoolorganization wrap around what
you respect and value.
Chris Colley (20:16):
Absolutely, and I'll include that on the post,
that visual, so that people cansee, Because I love that visual
too.
I saw it in one of your talksand it makes so much sense.
Steve Bollar (20:27):
But the words you just put to it.
It's just like yes, that makesso much.
Chris Colley (20:31):
Steve, what about?
So leadership, like here inQuebec anyway, we have a
tendency of having principalsturn over, you know, relatively
short, usually five handful ofyears.
How do schools continue thatclimate and culture that they
(20:51):
would have established withanother leader?
How do they transfer that over?
I guess what I'm trying to getat is how does a principal gauge
the climate and culture of aschool when they're first coming
in, so that you're aware of,and not stepping on toes where
you're like I'm implementingthis new cultural aspect or this
(21:15):
climate is we're going tochange, like what kind of advice
do you give to principals thatare new to a school, that might
come into a really, you know,great, great culture, great
climate, or the opposite?
What are some of those, thosetips and tricks or strategies
that you offer up to supportthose, those, those new
principals in school?
Steve Bollar (21:34):
Yeah, exactly Like I said, I do climate, culture,
leadership, development, right,and all those things.
Well so I do a lot of coachingof administrators and I get a
good fair share of new buildingprincipals.
The number one thing I say tobuilding principals is or any
leader that's coming into aschool, and this is pretty
common it's like you got tolisten, got to listen, listen,
(21:58):
listen.
Yes, there are times you haveto make some decisions.
That's your job.
All right, put out fires, youknow all those things.
But the more that you canlisten, the better.
When you get in there, you haveto interview those teachers.
Yes, you did the wholeinterview in order to get the
position.
Now it's your turn to interviewthose teachers.
And the interview of theteachers is what do you do?
(22:19):
How long have you been here?
What things do you like mostabout this school?
You know you can touch on somethings that need to be improved.
All right, because you don'twant it to turn into a you know
what kind of thing and they'recomplaining about all the
different things you know, touchon it.
But what is it that you loveabout this school?
What are some great things thatyou saw coming up that may need
to change?
(22:40):
You know that.
You know coming up that youwant to keep going.
Now don't just get thisinformation and hold it separate
.
Find the connections betweenthem.
You're going to find out somegood information about what good
things of the culture thateverybody respects and values.
Okay, here we go.
Now I kind of have a betterunderstanding of what that is.
(23:01):
The second thing I tell a lot ofnew administrators is you need
to over-communicate,over-communicate.
A lot of times they come in andthey get into the world of
administrivia and in the worldof administrivia you keep things
to yourself and you have to bethe leader of the ministry.
You know, and it's like, cut itout, cut it out.
You need to over-communicatebecause, as much as you're
(23:22):
trying to get the integrity andthe understanding of your staff,
they're trying to do the samething to you, and the best way
for them to do that is tounderstand how you make
decisions, how you are decidingthings, what your thought
process is.
So, email more than what youusually would.
Talk more than you usuallywould.
(23:42):
Even if you're a talker talkmore than you usually, would I
more than you usually would.
Even if you're a talker, talkmore than you usually would.
I always say to themspecifically the first six
months.
Now we know school district,the schools they run good 10
months, or you know, pluswhatever.
First six months you betterover-communicate.
Hey, I was thinking about this,yz, and these are some of the
thoughts I have.
I'll give you my answer soon.
Even if you don't have theanswer, just say this is some of
(24:04):
your thought process, becausewhat's going to happen is people
are going to see your thoughtprocess.
They're going to say, okay, Isee how she makes decisions.
Sometimes they say you knowwhat, I'm now empowered to come
in and give some of my thoughtto you.
Oh, wonderful, now you'redeveloping a dialogue, all right
.
Third thing I telladministrators is you have to do
the door, the office doorpractice, which I call the
(24:28):
office door practice.
What that means is you have toprotect your time as an
administrator to be able to getwork done, but you also need to
have opportunities for people tocommunicate well with you.
Therefore, you need to tellyour staff all right, my door,
because you always say, oh, it'san open door policy.
No, no, don't do that.
No, come on, let's be real.
You have three stages for yourdoor.
(24:49):
If my door is wide open, comeon in.
Knock on the door hey, you gota minute.
Come on.
If my door is halfway open,check with the secretary, see
what's going on.
First, if my door's shut, don'tget upset, my door's shut.
Three stages of the door.
This way they understand andrespect your time where you are.
(25:12):
Now I know there's a lot ofadministrators now.
They get a cart and they'rerolling all around the hallways
and they're in and out ofclassrooms constantly.
That's wonderful, but atcertain times you need to go to
your office, y'all Okay, so usethat as well and that empowers
them as well.
The last thing which I make sureevery administrator not just
new, but everybody knows is thefive levels of decision making,
(25:35):
because you need to includepeople for decisions, but
sometimes you don't know whichlevel or how to bring them in so
very quickly.
Five levels of decision-making.
Level one decision-making isyou, the administrator, make the
decision, no input from anybodyelse.
Usually this is reserved foremergency situations.
Something's coming up, maybeit's morning arrival at an
(25:55):
elementary school, a hailstormcomes through or bad you know I
don't have time.
You go over there, get the kidsthere, keep the kids on the bus
.
You guys can be on, just boom.
Level one decision you make itquick, you do it.
Level two decision-making isyou're the leader.
You're going to make a decision, but I'm going to check with
other people first.
What do you think?
What do you think?
(26:16):
What do you think I might useyour, your input?
I might not, but I'm checkingin.
I want to see what other peoplethink before I make my decision
.
Level three we're going to makethe decision together.
My input is no bigger thananybody else.
This is when you have like acommittee.
You know you raise hands,whatever it is Equal amount of
decision-making taking placehere.
(26:38):
Level four I'm the leader.
Now I'm going to let yousomebody else make the decision
after I, the leader, give you myinput first.
So we have something that'sgoing on here.
Remember this, remember this,don't forget this.
And here's some guidelines forthis.
Go Now they go and make thedecision.
Keep me informed in case thingsdon't work out right.
(26:59):
But now I'm empowering others,now that I've given you the
information.
Level five this is when otherpeople make the decision.
Me as a leader, I have nothingto do with it.
No, you got it.
You're empowered.
You're fully empowered.
You know the vision.
You know the vision, themission, the goals.
You know it all.
Go for it.
Let me know whenever you needto.
Chris Colley (27:23):
And those are various levels, steve too, of
shared leadership.
Steve Bollar (27:24):
You're trying to empower your people, but still
the buck stops with you as theadministrator, yes, and a lot of
times leaders don't have thatunderstanding and so when they
start thinking, okay, this is alevel two situation, oh, I can
do a level four situation, butit helps guide their minds to be
able to do better.
So those are the top fourthings that I would make sure
(27:46):
every new leader does and, inturn, anchoring it to what you
respect and value moves theclimate and culture better.
Chris Colley (27:53):
Amazing, beautiful full circle here, steve, in 25
minutes Just unbelievable.
I so appreciate you coming onand sharing these thoughts.
I think that these kinds ofconversations need to happen
more with our schools, and Ithink that you've thrown a ton
of seeds out here that willsurely grow with the people that
(28:16):
listen.
So thank you so much for takingsome time out of your day and
sharing these thoughts with us.
Steve Bollar (28:21):
I enjoy this immensely.
I love K-12 education and it'smy heart and I just want all
schools to be better.
Chris Colley (28:28):
They can do it, you can do it Well, I feel your
passion and thanks again, and Iwish you all the best, too, in
your day and weeks and the restof the school year, and I hope
one day we talk again.
Steve, this has been such apleasure to welcome you and I
have so many other questions,but I'm respecting our time, so
not a problem, hey bring me back.
Steve Bollar (28:48):
We can come back and do a part two or something
like that.
I got a lot of things.
The summer is coming up.
I got a lot of speakingengagements.
I'm all over the place.
Got a new book that's comingout.
It came out.
It Go to Amazon, check it out.
It's an educator's guide toimproving climate and culture.
So I'm a busy guy, but wealways have time for each other,
chris.
This is great, amazing.
Thanks so much, steve.
All the best.
here we are another episode shift, that
podcast coming to you.
Um, I have a great guest today,steve bowler.
Um, he's an author, educator,thoughtcaster, I mean.
The list goes on and on and on.
Check out his website, I'llinclude it in the show notes.
And he goes by the persona ofStan Tall Steve, and I assume
(00:37):
that's because he's tall.
But I'm going to let Steve kindof fill in those gaps.
So, stan Tall Steve, where didthis come from Steve?
Yeah, in those gaps.
So, stand tall Steve, where didthis come from Steve?
Steve Bollar (00:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, First of all, hey man, thanks so
much for having me.
Chris Colley (00:49):
This is exciting.
Oh, it's a pleasure.
Steve Bollar (00:50):
I love chatting it up with some great people.
Who knows what it's all about.
Yeah, my name is Steve Bowler.
I go by Stand Tall Steve and itis because I am a tall guy.
I am six foot seven, six seven,you know, black guy, bald head.
I look like a basketball player, but I'm not.
My name is Steve.
(01:11):
I do stand tall.
It all kind of works welltogether, where this all kind of
came about.
I really got into speaking andtraining and consulting and such
, and a lot of people who are inspeaking they use their name.
You know, hey, I am SteveBowler, speaker or whatever.
You know, chris.
(01:31):
So I was thinking I needed apersona.
I needed something that cankind of hook some people and
being tall is a major part of mylife, specifically the way that
I look.
I look like someone who shouldbe on the basketball court but
I'm not.
And it really defined who I wasgrowing up as a youth, to a
teenager, to a young adult, tonow even being an adult, and so
(01:55):
therefore, you know that standtall piece.
I was talking with some otherspeakers and we kind of came up
with that persona but it workswell because it connects
directly to the message that Ishare with everyone.
Chris Colley (02:06):
I like the idea too I think I heard you mention
this that because of your heightalso, you stand out.
But you can see over everythingyou know, kind of that
leadership eye on the prize ofkeeping all the eggs together
there.
Yeah, I really like that.
That's really cool.
Steve Bollar (02:24):
It's a major piece of what I say.
Like when I go out and I speak,I talk about leadership.
Specifically, I talk about K-12schools.
That's my main area Culture andclimate leadership development,
idea development.
So, as it relates to leadership, I connect the world of tall
people to the world ofleadership.
And number one tall people.
(02:45):
We don't blend in.
Like we don't blend in.
You look into a crowd, we popout right away, you can't miss
us.
Same thing with leaders.
It's not your job to blend in,and I say that to leaders A lot
of times.
Leaders are like well, I'm justlike everybody else.
No, that's why you're a leader.
Yes, you connect with otherpeople, you feel welcome, but
(03:06):
there's a reason why you standout and so, therefore, you need
to embrace that.
There was a time when I wasyounger where it would bother me
greatly that I stood out somuch.
No, that's my job.
The job is to stand out.
Another thing about leaders isleaders.
I mean with tall people, wehave a different view of the
world, right, like, just likeyou said, we're in a crowd, we
can see everything.
Like you know other people andI always give the example you
(03:31):
know how many people have beenin a crowd with a tall friend
right.
And what do you do?
You put your tall friend to thefront.
You grab their hand or theirshoulder.
You say go.
And off they go and they pullyou through.
That's because they have adifferent view.
They can see the vision.
They can see where it is thatyou need to go.
They can plan things out.
Same thing with leadership.
You know, with leaders you haveto have that vision.
It's a vision, is a picture offuture success, a compelling
(03:53):
picture of future success, apositive picture of future
success.
So you have that vision andyou're taking everybody where
they need to go, you're sharingthe vision with them and moving
them forward.
And the last thing about beingtall and leadership is I say
that you know, tall people wedon't fit.
We don't fit in the world.
(04:13):
You know, I don't fit in cars,airplanes, doorways, ceiling
fans, shower heads, spider websthese are all issues in the
world of tall people.
We just we don't fit.
But here's the thing, worldit's all people.
We just we don't fit.
But here's the thing, eventhough we don't fit, do we give
up?
No, we can't give up.
Like I travel all over theworld because I work with
schools all over the place andsometimes I have to get into
(04:34):
tiny little airplanes, like Imean, I almost, on my hands and
knees, try to get to my seat, Idon't walk up to the plane and
go.
You know what it's really small, I'm not gonna go.
No, suck it up, buttercup,let's go.
You know what it's really small, I'm not going to go no suck it
up, buttercup, let's go.
You know it's a littleuncomfortable, but you got to
make it work.
Same thing with leadership it'snot always going to work, it's
not always going to fit.
(04:55):
You're going to have to beuncomfortable sometimes, but
guess what?
Suck it up, buttercup, let's go.
That's the role so that's how Iconnect the world of tall people
to leadership, just to kind ofgive a different perspective and
understanding, Like you knowwhat.
Yeah, there's someself-personal responsibility.
I'm not supposed to alwaysblend in with everyone else.
I do have to have a vision ofwhere it is.
I'm going and take people thereand it's going to be tough and
(05:17):
uncomfortable at times, but thisis the role that I have Amazing
.
Chris Colley (05:20):
Amazing, I love it .
Amazing, amazing, I love it, Ilove it.
I think it just works so welltoo.
I love how you married thosetwo together, um, so well.
I always like to kind of startoff, steve, with with.
Can you give me some tippingpoints that happened in your
career so far that kind ofbrought you to where you are now
?
Um, do you have some of thosestories that a moment or an
(05:42):
encounter or that kind ofchanged your trajectory of, of
your career, my career, my life,yeah, everything.
Steve Bollar (05:50):
I mean, you know, there there are.
There is a lot of differentones.
I mean, truthfully, if you wantto go way back, it was eighth
grade.
Uh, you know, talk about careerand life and everything.
Eighth grade was the year thateverything went nuts for me.
Uh, at the beginning of eighthgrade I was five foot.
At the beginning of eighthgrade I was five foot eight.
At the end of eighth grade Iwas six foot two.
Five, eight, six, two.
(06:10):
So that's seven inches.
That's a lot of growth in oneyear.
Now, usually when kids gothrough their growth spurt they
get what?
Three, two, three million fourinches.
I had seven.
It hurt, it was rough.
So I mean I was at big feet, Iwas tripping over myself, my
knees hurt, my legs hurt, myback hurt, my arms hurt.
I had chest pains.
(06:32):
Because my chest was alwayshurting I had to wear like a
Holtzer monitor.
My parents took me to thedoctor.
You know I was.
I was hunched over.
You know you ever see someonewho's hunched over doesn't stand
up straight, because I wasembarrassed of how tall I was
and how much I stood out fromeveryone around me.
So eighth grade was a roughyear for me.
(06:52):
So I was in school and I waswalking home from school.
One day I was walking home witha friend of mine.
Her name was Danielle, soDanielle lived over on 7th
Street, I lived over on 9thStreet, and so as we get to 7th
Street, danielle, she told me tostay still.
And I'm like what's going on?
She said you know, just staythere.
She walked behind me, she puther hand on my shoulder and then
(07:13):
she balled up her fist andpunched me in the middle of my
back and I was like you knowwhat is wrong with you and
everything.
If you hold the shoulder, punchthe back, what happens?
You arch your back up andbackup right.
And, as I said, I was hunchedover so much.
And she said to me she said,steve, you're a tall person,
stop trying to be small, standtall.
That's when it clicked.
That's when I was like, oh, mygoodness, what in the world am I
(07:36):
doing?
What I mean that moment?
I mean I remember it.
So you know those moments inlife that you remember crystal
clear you remember the smell thethe temperature the everything?
yes, totally, it was that momentand I stood there and I looked
at her like, yes, why in theworld am I doing this?
(07:56):
Now let me explain.
Let me explain my family.
All right, let me talk about myfamily my father's six foot six
.
My mom's five foot ten.
My brother's six foot six.
My sister's five foot ten, myuh, my grandfather six foot ten.
Like he's a giant.
I'm going to be tall, bro, youknow there was no getting away
(08:17):
from that, that was just likesealed but here I am trying to
fight it, and it took herpunching in my back for me to
realize this.
So at that moment I kind ofchanged the way that I carried
myself.
It was instantaneous confidencein who it is that I was
embracing, who I am, and thatkind of changed everything.
(08:38):
Now, granted, I didn't know aton about leadership and the
whole world and everything Imean, I was student body
president and stuff like that,you know young leader but that
changed everything, my overallpersona of of so, so much.
Chris Colley (08:53):
So that was the seed was planted right there,
steve, at that moment Likeamazing, that's such a great
story and that kind of changedthat, that that whole piece of
who I am and what I, what I amRight.
Right, and you talk about change, right, and I really feel like
that story you just said has alot to do with mindset, right,
(09:13):
like changing the way you seethings.
You know from something veryfixed this is who I am, it's all
you know.
I have no control over it too.
I have power, I can do stuff.
How do you, how do you developa mindset?
How do you encourage educatorsyou know in your leadership
roles, to have that capacity orto be aware of that capacity?
(09:36):
Because I do believe someteachers just believe no, this
is who I am, I don't learnanymore, I can't do anything
else.
This is who I am.
Yeah, in reality, that's.
We know that that's not thecase.
Can you expand on that a littlebit of like, how do you?
get those mindsets, moreinstilled into the openness of,
we could do anything we want.
Steve Bollar (09:56):
We can make this happen.
Now, there are parameters,obviously, that we have in
schools, but you're right, it'sa mindset.
You can work within thoseparameters and make things
possible.
One of the things I talk prettyheavily on and actually, no, I
don't talk heavily on, I hit itand I leave it where it is, but
it changes everybody's mindsetand perception quickly is I say
(10:16):
to them are you at compliance orcommitment?
Are you at compliance orcommitment?
Compliance Schools are verycompliance-based organizations.
Right, we have outlines, wehave rules, we have expectations
, and so a lot of educators rolland work within the compliance
mindset.
This is what you tell me to do.
(10:38):
This is what I will do, asopposed to being in a commitment
mindset.
So, compliance you're talkingabout rules, laws, policies.
You know all those things.
Commitment mindset you'rethinking of, you know whatever
it takes.
Possibilities are endless.
(10:59):
I can do this.
What's another way of thinkingabout this?
Because when you're committedto something, you'll go above
and beyond.
Your whole mindset shifts likewell, I'm committed to these
kids, I'm committed to myprofession, I'm committed to
this community, and if I'mcommitted to it, I'm going to
keep looking.
I'm committed to my profession,I'm committed to this community
, and if I'm committed to it,I'm going to keep looking, I'm
going to keep trying thingsdifferently, Whereas you're
compliant.
You're like okay, tell me whatyou need me to do, I'll do that.
(11:22):
I've got my ducks in a row.
And then, when you're doneputting the ducks in a row, that
they tell you to.
Well, I did what you told me todo.
Well, your kids aren'tsuccessful.
I told you, I did what you toldme to do.
I've yet to see any school, anydistrict, any classroom, any
teacher be outrageouslysuccessful just being compliant,
(11:43):
Just compliant, just compliant.
That's all you got.
Compliant.
If you're just being because tome compliance is accomplishment
it's a lower level ofaccomplishment.
So if you want to be more orget better outcomes, feel good
about yourself.
You can't just be compliant.
You've got to be committed.
And when you're committed now,you're going to get some things.
(12:05):
So that's the first thing thatI do.
I make sure that educatorsunderstand what that's about.
The second thing I do is, whenI said I talk about culture,
climate, leadership and ideas,is I like to share ideas?
I share so many ideas.
One of my books that I have iscalled Ideas, ideas, ideas,
which is a ton of differentideas.
When people hear differenttypes of ideas, different ways
(12:29):
of thinking, then they realizethe possibilities.
Oh, you could do that.
Oh, that's possible.
Oh, someone else tried it.
Oh, so once they realize thatit can be done, other people
have tried it differently it'salmost like giving them a
subliminal permission to stepinto the commitment realm, to
(12:52):
step into the idea realm, tostep into the commitment realm,
to step into the idea realm.
A lot of times the teachers,they just need permission to do
so.
They've been stuck incompliance so long they don't
have the permission, and thepermission comes when they see
and look beyond their walls andhear about other ideas
Absolutely Well, and I do thinkour institution is very.
Chris Colley (13:11):
You know right and wrong.
I mean, you got the rightanswer.
You got the wrong answer right.
Like that's our foundationalpractice, really Right Testing,
info test, info test.
So I love what you're saying toSteve, like the mindset too of
and we talked a little bit aboutthis one before we hopped on
(13:33):
here where you were talkingabout climate and culture, and I
found that that was when I waslooking through your materials
in your books and like it seemslike that's at the forefront of
a lot of what you talk about is.
Could you, could you, um,elaborate on on that, like
climbing culture, what?
What is that in a school andand how can we influence it
(13:55):
absolutely?
Steve Bollar (13:56):
climbing a culture .
It's who it is.
It is the bedrock of ofeverything that can take place
within any organization,especially a school, and if
you're not purposeful incrafting the culture and climate
, you're just what are you doing?
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
Come on, you got to bepurposeful in it, and the thing
(14:17):
is a lot of people don't knowwhat to do to be purposeful with
it.
So let's break everything downfirst, to begin with.
So the anchor to culture andclimate is clearly identifying
what you respect and value.
What is it that youcollectively everyone respect
and value?
I go to schools a lot and I sayto them if I was to talk to
everyone in this building allthe teachers, aides,
(14:40):
administration, support staff,students, parents and ask them
hey, what do we respect, what doyou respect and value in this
organization?
Would everyone say the samething?
Nope, nope.
I've yet to find any schoolthat says, yeah, we all say the
exact same thing about respectand value.
So that's the first step is tofind out what do we collectively
respect and value, and there'smany different ways you can go
(15:01):
about doing that.
So let's say that you worktogether within your
organization and you come upwith teamwork, integrity and
accountability.
All right, so we're going to gowith those three things we all
collectively respect and valueteamwork, integrity,
accountability.
So let's go to, and that'sgoing to be our anchor.
So let's go to climate.
(15:21):
What is climate?
Climate is the emotional statepeople feel when they enter a
space.
So how do they feel when theywalk into the school?
How do they feel when they walkinto a classroom?
You know, it's the mood, it'sthe feeling, right, of how they
feel.
That's why we call the weatheroutside the climate.
(15:43):
You walk out, you feel it.
We're emotional creatures.
That's what climate is.
Now, climate fluctuates, right,it changes month to month, week
to week Day to day, sometimesDay to day, minute to minute,
second to second.
Sometimes right, like I wouldtell people the climate at the
beginning of the school year isdifferent than the climate
(16:04):
before testing, right?
Yes, it just is a differentclimate.
I could walk into one classroomfeels great.
Walk into another classroomfeels bad.
That's climate.
So when you think of climate,it kind of fluctuates.
Sometimes it's close to whatyou say, you respect and value,
sometimes it's not.
That's climate.
(16:25):
Now there's culture.
What is culture?
Culture is really?
It's just a fancy word fortraditions.
That's what culture really is.
Culture is a culmination oftradition and practices that
happen within a school.
That's what culture is.
So let's say you're going to goon holiday, you're going on
vacation, and you say, oh, I'mgoing to go to this other
(16:46):
country, it's going to be sowonderful, I want to get
immersed into the culture.
You want to get immersed intothe traditional things that
country does.
It's traditional things.
Same thing in a school.
What traditional things arehappening that create the
culture?
Now, there are two differenttypes of culture.
There's your operationalculture and then there's your
behavioral culture.
Your operational culture, thatone, that's how you operate.
(17:11):
How do you traditionally operate?
How do kids come in thebuilding?
How do they move in thehallways?
No-transcript.
(17:34):
How do people traditionallybehave?
How do they talk to each other?
How much is tolerated right?
How do students talk tostudents?
How do students talk toteachers?
How do teachers talk tostudents?
How do students talk toadministrators?
How do administrators talk tostudents?
How do administrators talk toteachers, like, how do everybody
interact with each othertraditionally over time?
(17:56):
Okay, we have all of our parts.
So let's do and imagine.
I know everybody's listening,but I want you to imagine what
it is that I'm saying to you.
So let's say we have thisdiagram.
In the middle of this diagramis what you say you respect and
value Teamwork, integrity,accountability.
Those are the anchors Now,wrapped around those three words
(18:18):
waving up and down.
Is the climate right?
Because we know sometimes it'sclose to it, sometimes it's not
close to it, it bounces around.
Then let's think about twoparallel lines, horizontal
parallel lines, one above, onebelow.
The one above is yourbehavioral culture, the one
below is your operationalculture.
(18:40):
Here's the thing Our goal is toget the climate to feel good,
because we're emotionalcreatures.
It's all about that climate.
We want to feel good regularly.
In order to get that climate tobe stable, close to what we
respect and value, you have towork on the culture.
Right.
That culture, that behavioralculture and your operational
(19:00):
culture have to be in alignmentwith teamwork, integrity and
accountability.
Your operations isn't inalignment with teamwork,
integrity and accountability.
Hold people accountable to that.
Are the behaviors in alignmentwith teamwork, integrity and
accountability?
And when they are that crazywavy line of climate, it shrinks
down.
It shrinks down closer to whatit is you respect and value.
(19:24):
And when your climate, theemotions, are connected to what
you respect and value teamwork,integrity and accountability,
people are happy, students arehappy, teachers are happy,
communities are happy,administrators are happier.
Now it's still going to wave.
You know that climate, but itwon't be big swells like oh,
we're out of control, the moraleis bad, hold people accountable
(19:48):
.
And it leans on the leadership.
It leans on the teachers to doit to each other and eventually
it trickles down to the students, where they're doing it to each
other, where they're holdingeach other accountable to.
This is who we are.
We're about teamwork, integrity, accountability or whatever the
three words that you're goingto anchor it to.
Right, right, right.
So I know that's kind of a long, roundabout way, but that's
what climate and culture reallyis, and it's possible, it is
(20:10):
totally doable, to make a schoolorganization wrap around what
you respect and value.
Chris Colley (20:16):
Absolutely, and I'll include that on the post,
that visual, so that people cansee, Because I love that visual
too.
I saw it in one of your talksand it makes so much sense.
Steve Bollar (20:27):
But the words you just put to it.
It's just like yes, that makesso much.
Chris Colley (20:31):
Steve, what about?
So leadership, like here inQuebec anyway, we have a
tendency of having principalsturn over, you know, relatively
short, usually five handful ofyears.
How do schools continue thatclimate and culture that they
(20:51):
would have established withanother leader?
How do they transfer that over?
I guess what I'm trying to getat is how does a principal gauge
the climate and culture of aschool when they're first coming
in, so that you're aware of,and not stepping on toes where
you're like I'm implementingthis new cultural aspect or this
(21:15):
climate is we're going tochange, like what kind of advice
do you give to principals thatare new to a school, that might
come into a really, you know,great, great culture, great
climate, or the opposite?
What are some of those, thosetips and tricks or strategies
that you offer up to supportthose, those, those new
principals in school?
Steve Bollar (21:34):
Yeah, exactly Like I said, I do climate, culture,
leadership, development, right,and all those things.
Well so I do a lot of coachingof administrators and I get a
good fair share of new buildingprincipals.
The number one thing I say tobuilding principals is or any
leader that's coming into aschool, and this is pretty
common it's like you got tolisten, got to listen, listen,
(21:58):
listen.
Yes, there are times you haveto make some decisions.
That's your job.
All right, put out fires, youknow all those things.
But the more that you canlisten, the better.
When you get in there, you haveto interview those teachers.
Yes, you did the wholeinterview in order to get the
position.
Now it's your turn to interviewthose teachers.
And the interview of theteachers is what do you do?
(22:19):
How long have you been here?
What things do you like mostabout this school?
You know you can touch on somethings that need to be improved.
All right, because you don'twant it to turn into a you know
what kind of thing and they'recomplaining about all the
different things you know, touchon it.
But what is it that you loveabout this school?
What are some great things thatyou saw coming up that may need
to change?
(22:40):
You know that.
You know coming up that youwant to keep going.
Now don't just get thisinformation and hold it separate
.
Find the connections betweenthem.
You're going to find out somegood information about what good
things of the culture thateverybody respects and values.
Okay, here we go.
Now I kind of have a betterunderstanding of what that is.
(23:01):
The second thing I tell a lot ofnew administrators is you need
to over-communicate,over-communicate.
A lot of times they come in andthey get into the world of
administrivia and in the worldof administrivia you keep things
to yourself and you have to bethe leader of the ministry.
You know, and it's like, cut itout, cut it out.
You need to over-communicatebecause, as much as you're
(23:22):
trying to get the integrity andthe understanding of your staff,
they're trying to do the samething to you, and the best way
for them to do that is tounderstand how you make
decisions, how you are decidingthings, what your thought
process is.
So, email more than what youusually would.
Talk more than you usuallywould.
(23:42):
Even if you're a talker talkmore than you usually, would I
more than you usually would.
Even if you're a talker, talkmore than you usually would.
I always say to themspecifically the first six
months.
Now we know school district,the schools they run good 10
months, or you know, pluswhatever.
First six months you betterover-communicate.
Hey, I was thinking about this,yz, and these are some of the
thoughts I have.
I'll give you my answer soon.
Even if you don't have theanswer, just say this is some of
(24:04):
your thought process, becausewhat's going to happen is people
are going to see your thoughtprocess.
They're going to say, okay, Isee how she makes decisions.
Sometimes they say you knowwhat, I'm now empowered to come
in and give some of my thoughtto you.
Oh, wonderful, now you'redeveloping a dialogue, all right
.
Third thing I telladministrators is you have to do
the door, the office doorpractice, which I call the
(24:28):
office door practice.
What that means is you have toprotect your time as an
administrator to be able to getwork done, but you also need to
have opportunities for people tocommunicate well with you.
Therefore, you need to tellyour staff all right, my door,
because you always say, oh, it'san open door policy.
No, no, don't do that.
No, come on, let's be real.
You have three stages for yourdoor.
(24:49):
If my door is wide open, comeon in.
Knock on the door hey, you gota minute.
Come on.
If my door is halfway open,check with the secretary, see
what's going on.
First, if my door's shut, don'tget upset, my door's shut.
Three stages of the door.
This way they understand andrespect your time where you are.
(25:12):
Now I know there's a lot ofadministrators now.
They get a cart and they'rerolling all around the hallways
and they're in and out ofclassrooms constantly.
That's wonderful, but atcertain times you need to go to
your office, y'all Okay, so usethat as well and that empowers
them as well.
The last thing which I make sureevery administrator not just
new, but everybody knows is thefive levels of decision making,
(25:35):
because you need to includepeople for decisions, but
sometimes you don't know whichlevel or how to bring them in so
very quickly.
Five levels of decision-making.
Level one decision-making isyou, the administrator, make the
decision, no input from anybodyelse.
Usually this is reserved foremergency situations.
Something's coming up, maybeit's morning arrival at an
(25:55):
elementary school, a hailstormcomes through or bad you know I
don't have time.
You go over there, get the kidsthere, keep the kids on the bus
.
You guys can be on, just boom.
Level one decision you make itquick, you do it.
Level two decision-making isyou're the leader.
You're going to make a decision, but I'm going to check with
other people first.
What do you think?
What do you think?
(26:16):
What do you think I might useyour, your input?
I might not, but I'm checkingin.
I want to see what other peoplethink before I make my decision
.
Level three we're going to makethe decision together.
My input is no bigger thananybody else.
This is when you have like acommittee.
You know you raise hands,whatever it is Equal amount of
decision-making taking placehere.
(26:38):
Level four I'm the leader.
Now I'm going to let yousomebody else make the decision
after I, the leader, give you myinput first.
So we have something that'sgoing on here.
Remember this, remember this,don't forget this.
And here's some guidelines forthis.
Go Now they go and make thedecision.
Keep me informed in case thingsdon't work out right.
(26:59):
But now I'm empowering others,now that I've given you the
information.
Level five this is when otherpeople make the decision.
Me as a leader, I have nothingto do with it.
No, you got it.
You're empowered.
You're fully empowered.
You know the vision.
You know the vision, themission, the goals.
You know it all.
Go for it.
Let me know whenever you needto.
Chris Colley (27:23):
And those are various levels, steve too, of
shared leadership.
Steve Bollar (27:24):
You're trying to empower your people, but still
the buck stops with you as theadministrator, yes, and a lot of
times leaders don't have thatunderstanding and so when they
start thinking, okay, this is alevel two situation, oh, I can
do a level four situation, butit helps guide their minds to be
able to do better.
So those are the top fourthings that I would make sure
(27:46):
every new leader does and, inturn, anchoring it to what you
respect and value moves theclimate and culture better.
Chris Colley (27:53):
Amazing, beautiful full circle here, steve, in 25
minutes Just unbelievable.
I so appreciate you coming onand sharing these thoughts.
I think that these kinds ofconversations need to happen
more with our schools, and Ithink that you've thrown a ton
of seeds out here that willsurely grow with the people that
(28:16):
listen.
So thank you so much for takingsome time out of your day and
sharing these thoughts with us.
Steve Bollar (28:21):
I enjoy this immensely.
I love K-12 education and it'smy heart and I just want all
schools to be better.
Chris Colley (28:28):
They can do it, you can do it Well, I feel your
passion and thanks again, and Iwish you all the best, too, in
your day and weeks and the restof the school year, and I hope
one day we talk again.
Steve, this has been such apleasure to welcome you and I
have so many other questions,but I'm respecting our time, so
not a problem, hey bring me back.
Steve Bollar (28:48):
We can come back and do a part two or something
like that.
I got a lot of things.
The summer is coming up.
I got a lot of speakingengagements.
I'm all over the place.
Got a new book that's comingout.
It came out.
It Go to Amazon, check it out.
It's an educator's guide toimproving climate and culture.
So I'm a busy guy, but wealways have time for each other,
chris.
This is great, amazing.
Thanks so much, steve.
All the best.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com