2024 Distinguished Member: Coleman Scott

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
So the National Wrestling Hall of FameHonors Weekend twenty twenty four. Part of
this year's honors class is our guesttoday on the Legends podcast. It's distinguished
member Coleman Scott, a three timehigh school state champion from Waynesburg Central,
four time NCAA Division one All American, and a national champion. And probably
the highlight of a career littered withaccolades is the Olympic bronze medal back in

(00:28):
twenty twelve. And Coleman, youare coming up on the twenty years from
your high school graduation, now comingin as this next generation of distinguished Members.
The first thing I want to startwith is when you got the call,
when you got the email, whenyou got the notification, what was
your first response to, Holy crud, I'm in the Hall of Fame.

(00:49):
Yeah, sort of surreal. Youknow, Lee Rod called me. I
was actually an Albania U twenty threeWorlds last fall and wasn't sure why he
was called me, but but uh, you know, sort of couldn't believe
him. Thought he was messing withme at first. You know, we
go long ways back, so uhbut yes, very surreal. Just just

(01:10):
couldn't believe that it really wasn't athought of mine to to be at this
level or be even considered for theHall of Fame. And and I never
even thought about that I would beon the on the ball or on the
docket, you know. So,uh just very cool and very honored,
uh to to get the call.What names pop into your mind when you
hear National Wrestling Hall of Fame prettymuch every every idol that we've had growing

(01:37):
up, right, I mean,I mean you look at at the sport
from from you know, for megoing through the nineties when I when I
really fell in love with the sportand Kenda Cross and and and those guys
and carry Cole that band from fromthe same hometown in Green County, and
they're same the same areas in county. You know, those are the guys
that pop in my head and go, wow, I didn't even I never

(02:00):
never put myself on their level,right. I always thought that that it
just really wasn't a thought for mine. It would just be the best person
I can be in the moment.But I never had that thought that I
could be at their level and andeven be considered at their level, you
know. So it was something forme that, you know, like I
said, very surreal, very honored, just to just to just to get

(02:22):
the call. You talked about whenyou fell in love with the sport.
How did that process go? Likewhen did when did wrestling first put itself
into your world? You know Ifirst started probably well when I was about
six years old. My grandfather reallygot me into it. He wrestled all
the way through high school and youknow, and and then went into the
Navy and really was always adamant.You know, at a young age.

(02:45):
I remember just hey, you needto give this a try. And I
think when I was that was whenI was six, about ten years old,
was the ninety six Games in Atlanta, which we had a little bit
more I would say coverage or thoughtor something whatever you want to call it,
just stateside, just it being inAtlanta and being around wrestling, and
I paid attention, and you know, I really remember remember that that team

(03:07):
and Kendall specifically, you know whathe did in that moment and you know,
putting Cciri to his back and allthat stuff that I watched, you
know, probably VHS recorded at twoam or whatever it was to watch the
next day, just whatever it wason TV. You know you sort of

(03:27):
just did that, but uh,you know, I think I fell in
love. I realized what the pinnacleof the sport was that year, you
know, probably about ten years old. I realized that, you know,
there's no professional league, but that'sthat's freaking cool. He's got red,
white and blue, He's got theUSA across his chest. Like, that's
what I want to do. Andthat's really where the love started for for
wrestling, you know, and youknow, really just putting myself and always

(03:49):
thinking about, hey, I cando that. And then you know,
a couple of years later, fouryears later, a couple years later with
Carrie, you know, really makingthat run and being from from the same
area and knowing some of his familyand him for a long time, right
like, just following that path andthat and what he did so closely,
it was just it really hit home, Hey maybe I can do this.

(04:09):
Maybe this is something that that it'sreal, you know, somebody from five
minutes down the roads doing it rightnow and one of the best in the
world, you know. So Icontinued just just want to do that.
So that probably that that four tofive years right there, from from ten
to fourteen, you know, andand really just just fell in love with
it. And it was just thepeople close to me, and uh,

(04:29):
they made it a realization, youknow when you when you watch it and
say, hey, I can Ithink I can do that. I want
to do that. At least I'mgoing to give everything I got. How
quickly did success come to you whenyou first got into the sport? Fairly
fairly quickly, you know. II it's probably a better question for my

(04:50):
my dad and my my little leaguecoaches Joe throckmore than those guys, because
I don't. I don't necessarily rememberwhat what what the credentials I had as
a little league and junior high Idon't. I don't. I know I
was successful, and you know,fell in love with it because of the
success. You know, it's easierto like something when you have a little
success early on, you know.But but I was fairly successful. I

(05:12):
won probably a couple of state titlesat the pj W level, at the
at the state level, a coupleof probably Tulsa National tyes of stuff like
that, so it really, youknow, I remember having success, but
I don't necessarily remember what what allI did at at a younger age,
it wasn't. It was never glorified, you know in my house to to
just it wasn't. It wasn't aboutjust winning and getting trophies. And that's

(05:35):
where my parents did an unbelievable jobof of keeping me humble and keeping me
into the realization of of what thisis about. Let's just be better every
day. Let's continue to chase thingsthat you've always wanted to chase. And
you know that next level, youknow, how do you get to that
next level? There's always something moreand uh, you know, and and
you know, that's that's just wherewe were where my family really stuck.

(05:57):
And I don't even know if theyknow how many what what I had at
a young age in western Pennsylvania.You know, the cultivation of talent in
the whole state entirely, but youknow, there's that pride of you know,
Western PA. And then you knowobviously Waynesburg Central, just Emidst like
blue collar atmosphere, you know,the the whole area. You talk about
Green County and you know, youget into high school, we're looking at

(06:19):
your background. Okay, you've gotthree PA state titles there. That's that's
kind of rare air to begin withyou place a freshman. I'm looking at
some of the weights now, thosewho are coming through in your era.
These are names you talk about Tulsa. These are names and that you see
through the youth circuit. Okay,you wrestle Brad Pataki in the finals as
the finals of sofhtmore in that way, Mark McKnight's in that way, Tim

(06:40):
Harner, Nate Noroth, Clinton Shirt, Garrett Barbush, Morgan babble At,
Steve Mittach, Alex Krom and notall those guys place And that's just your
softomore year. We get further along, you see these guys later on,
But at what point do you knowthat, man, not only am I
I'm having some success here, whichyou said you stay grounded with, but
like when you start winning against theseguys are also like they've got some accolades.

(07:01):
The Internet is starting to get therein the late nineties. You're kind
of in that early run of theInternet rankings generation. So at what point
do you realize that there's some prettygood guys around you and I'm beating some
pretty good guys in the process.You know, I think I think you
hit nail on the head. Beingfrom Southwestern Pennsylvania. You grow up in
every weekend, you know, youwrestle Mark McKnight, Donnie Jones, Adam

(07:28):
Frye. Right that that that's abracket at a podunk tournament in southwestern Pennsylvania.
Uh, and you see him everyweekend, literally every Saturday. That's
who. That's who we're wrestling,right, and a lot more than that.
So so growing up I knew thatthat you know, I don't say
battle tested, but but you knewyou were. These guys were winning at
a high level as well around thecountry. And you know those big tournaments

(07:49):
that we used to go to inTulsa Nationals and the I think there's one
in Detroit, one in Topeka,Kansas back in the day. And you
know, so these guys are winningaround you, and then you got you
got to see them every freaking weekend, right and and it just continues into
high school. And I think everybodyfrom PA's got that pride of we are
the best, uh And we stillare the best, and we produce at

(08:11):
a very high level. And it'sno secret. Right again, every Saturday,
every Sunday that you're wrestling up there, you're wrestling against the best kids
in the country, not just thebest kids in the area. Uh,
And we're not afraid to step outand you know, sort of test yourself
in the waters every tournament around thecountry. There's never a thought process.
Somebody need to protect anything, youknow. And I don't know if I

(08:33):
ever thought of it that I wasbeating these good guys. I knew they
were good. The whole state's good. I think that that we as Pennsylvanians,
that's what we we We are thebest, you know, and that's
what you think. So if you'reat that pinnacle, you know, no
matter what weight class, no matterwhat double a trouble, you're gonna beat
some guys that are very very highlevel and will be very successful in life

(08:54):
and wrestling beyond high school. Aswell. Of your three state finals Brap
Attack, you had a pretty goodcareer in college as well. Brad Canterbury
placed multiple times in Fargo growing throughgrowing up, and then Charles Griffin,
who really emerged his senior year,had a really good career at HOSTRA.
Of those three state titles, whichone do you remember the most? Which
one are you most fond of?Senior year? Charles Griffin, I had

(09:18):
one state title at one, Ithink one twelve the year prior to and
Charles had won one twenty five theboth of our junior years, and so
it was like the marquee matchup.I went up to twenty five, probably
only weighed one hundred and twenty eightmaxed out right, maybe one thirty that

(09:39):
year maybe, And so I rememberjust being the marquee matchup of the whole
state tournament. People talking about it. You know, what's going to happen.
Coleman's coming up? Two way classes? Can you handle this guy?
You know, Charles was a coupleof times, maybe two or three time
All American at Hofstra, you know, always a little bit bigger than me
once we get to college. Butjust to just a lot of respect for

(10:01):
him, you know, and whathe what he did, you know,
those last couple of years of highschool. And just remember that match vividly
in the sense that it was tiedlate and then ended up getting a reversal
to his back, you know.And and you know, I just a
few moments walking into the arena andpeople talking about it and with their buddies,
Hey, this is you know,who's gonna win? Who's this?

(10:22):
Scott or Griffith you know, justhearing all the chatter through the whole weekend
about that match, and that probablymakes it more special to me. And
and and you know, being myour senior year, my senior year,
and uh, going out on top, and you know, jumping up two
way classes from junior to senior yearto to sort of I don't want to
say prove a point, but butmake sure that I was you know,

(10:43):
my my thought process was I wasgonna have to wrestle twenty five in college
the next year anyway, so Imight as well start now. It is
what it is type of thing.And and uh, you know, so
that's that's probably by far my mostvivid memory of high school. You had
mentioned the reversal to is back,And there's one of the early memories I
have of you is we've talked aboutthis probably multiple times. It's almost every

(11:07):
time we running each other. Wetalk about the old days. Is your
win against Mike Rowe in the Beastof These Finals two thousand and three,
two thousand and four, where youare down late and you reverse him to
his bat? I would you reversedhim and sucked him back? If I
recall right, you were down,it was like four seconds to go on
the restart. And you know,what do you remember about that sequence?

(11:28):
If it still comes to mind whenI don't bring it up, it does,
you know. Yeah, I don'tthink about it daily, but it
does. You know. I rememberhaving a thought and again that senior year,
having that thought. You know,I think there's five six seconds left
on a restart. Okay, Igot time to you know, I can't
remember what the score was. Ijust knew I in my mind said,
okay, I can I can reversethem, or I got time to I

(11:50):
got time to win still and gotreset. I think I jammed back into
him and and sort of hiit iisonor whatever it was, but caught him
on his back there for I thinktwo and two to win the match,
you know. And and and atthe time, Beast the East was was
by far the toughest tournament the country, you know, any high school.
It was better than iron Man,it was better than all those There wasn't

(12:11):
Super thirty two all that stuff,right, So it was Beast And I
believe I believe that was my onlyI think that was the only time winning
it. If I'm not mistaken,you know, so, so I'm not
quite sure. But but but Iremember that was a big tournament for me,
just because as a team and everythingwe did, you know, being
Waynesburg and not not being a hugeschool. It's not like we had a

(12:35):
plethora of people winning that tournament,you know. You know. So but
I do remember that every you know, every so often, and you know,
I don't know if I've ever watchedthe match again. It's just all
through through memory. Yeah, Ijust I just remember being because you know,
Mike Rowe had come through uh youknow, the Southern Maryland Northern Virginia
circuit, so I had seen himas a kid growing up, and he

(12:56):
eventually wrestled Nebraska for a minute,and you know he was also in that
in that bracket in Fargo. Uhlater, you know, later that summer.
Now, that's one thing that youdid that a lot of the kids
these days don't do as much.Is the graduated senior going to Fargo to
try to win a junior national title. You'd already won a junior title,
you'd want a cadet title, andthen you had a junior title year before.

(13:16):
Why go back your senior year andO four to win another one.
I was told to, you know, I think that no other reason than
that I asked the question to mycoach, is here at os you when
I when I came in and Iwas here living here that summer, and
they said, no, you needto You haven't. You haven't wrestled since
since you know, State tournament,a couple other a little small for you.
You need to wrestle, stay fresh. That was that was the only

(13:37):
reason, you know. I stillthink that that that kids should. I
think that they they take take takegranted, or take advantage of, Hey,
I need this summer off. Ineed that. You know, Uh,
we've never really had time off.I don't think one tournament's going to
burn you out right. I thinkthat that when you have something to train
for and uh, when you're lookingat it and that that's an odd time

(13:58):
that year because you don't have thestuff every weekend, you're not looking for
it, you know. So itjust kept me on point, It kept
me ready. I think that thatwas probably a big, big reason to
success leading into that fall where Iwasn't behind because I did stay sharp all
the way through July, you know, and as you know, that's a
pretty dangn tough tournament, you know, so I had to get in shape,
had to you know, make sureit's cutting my weight right and doing

(14:20):
all that. So I think itreally helped me propel me into the fall
that year and be ready as atrue freshman to step out and wrestle.
You had mentioned your match with GriffinState finals. Maybe think of something.
Was that the last time you wereyou were light for a weight class.
Yeah, yeah, you know,and I knew coaching. Coaching told me

(14:41):
when he recruited me that that itwas either you know, probably twenty five
and then we'll see if you grow. If you don't, great, if
you do, we'll just move upinto thirty three. And my sophomore year
was pretty tough cut to twenty five. You know. Freshman year was okay,
My sophomore year became pretty tough,and thirty three my junior year was
it felt great because it wasn't Itwas just I went up eight pounds,

(15:01):
right, so if it was justmentally better. And then senior year was
was another pretty good cut, andyou know, and of course international,
you know it it was it gotbetter as I got older and figured out
how to be smarter with it,you know. Uh so uh but but
you know, of course, andthen finished at the end of my career
one twenty five, which was probablythe most miserable thing I've ever done,

(15:24):
you know, But but I don'tregret any of it. But yeah,
that was that was probably the onlytime, you know, freshman year,
freshman year, and senior year.Yeah, freshman year, I we wrestled
one twelve and I weighed maybe onehundred and five. I couldn't beat Drew
Headley, who was our who wasour three pounder, and you know,
and I went up and wrestled twelve. I think I weighed at state tournament
with everything on, sweatpants, shoes, everything, and maybe weighed one hundred

(15:48):
and seven. You know, SoI was small. I was a small
kid until later in life. Whenwas the last time Drew beat you?
Oh, Drew beat me a lot. Drew be me a lot. I
mean, I'm I mean even shoot, he might have been me internationally even
after college, you know. Iknow we wrestled a couple of times.
I can't can't, can't remember,but you know we Drew and I grew
up a mile part. You know. Ronnie, his dad was our junior

(16:11):
high coach, and he was Carrie'scoaching high school down of Jefferson. So
that's how we made that connection earlyon. Uh, you know, through
the nineties and everything. So butDrew, I mean, I mean I
Drew was unbelievable. I mean Icouldn't beat him for the longest time.
And it wasn't anything other than hewas. He was better than me,
you know, he was a yearolder and and better wrestler than me.

(16:33):
You know. And and you know, again going back to what southwestern Pennsylvania
is when when you when you struggleto make your team, you know,
against the guy that's winning state title, it's the nunca he ends up being
an all married Right, those arethose are the guys that push you and
propel you into being who you are. Uh. And I was just fortunate,
you know, to be saying similarage great coaches grow up in Waynesburg.

(16:56):
Right, It wasn't anything other thanthat, you know then than having
these guys and their dads who arecoaches, you know, really understand the
sport at at a very high leveland push us to that point. Now
when you talk about staying sharp,you came from a club you kind of
are on that front end of Iguess there's a new generation of the elite

(17:17):
clubs. Angry Fish was that clubthat was really going Time or Ray Brendser
obviously in that Western PA group.I mean we mentioned McKnight. Jake Herbert's
around there too, And you've gotpersonalities like the late Time Or and Ray
Brends are being such so dynamic withtheir knowledge but also just just a little
off center with some of their mentalityand whatnot. Talk about when you jumped

(17:41):
into the Angry Fish Wrestling club,what it was, the guys around you,
and why it worked for you.Yeah, I think that, like
you said, it was the veryprecursor to what clubs are today, you
know, And I think that itreally for me, It started on Sundays.
I would go up on Sundays andMark You would be in the room,
and Carrie Ragged and and a coupleothers and Jake Herbert and of course

(18:03):
Raymond and Ty would be running topractice and I I just it was really
just to push myself and there'd bea couple of guys from ways where we
drive up together and it'd be anhour hour and a half one way just
for a practice for an hour anda half. But but I remember,
you know, wrestling with Ty whowas who was you know, it's time
more right, He's one of thegreatest coming out of Pennsylvania and especially southwestern

(18:25):
Pennsylvania ever. And and then MarkAngeles in the room. Uh. And
Mark was a guy that that Ialways looked at as one of the fastest,
best footwork guys I've ever seen,you know, wrestle and uh,
and these are guys I'm getting towrestle with, you know, later in
my high school career, and theseare guys that are leading me and guide
me. And then you got RaymondWho's you know Ray's It's it's Ray right,

(18:47):
I think you know him. Andthere's no better way to describe it
than that. But but we hada very strong just I felt like they
could they were so much different thanI was brought up in that they could
and I could just lean on them, and they made me so much better
of just overall wrestler right right,taught me positions in Greco and all this
that like that I had never evenknown or thought of. And and Ties

(19:11):
just just the tenacity and the mindsetand the belief. Uh. These guys
really just pushed me to a levelthat I just didn't even know was possible,
you know, and just again fortunate. I just happened to be right
age, right time, right place, you know, right connections and and
and they was able to take advantageof them right and and and they they

(19:33):
really poured into me. And youknow, I couldn't ask for just just
be just lucky that I was,that I was there that that time,
and you know, and and wewrestled a couple of clubs duels, but
it was more of a hey,this is a place to work out,
and it's a place to train,and we're gonna have the best guys in
the area and the state all cometo us and train. And that's that's
where it started, you know.And I still remember those practices of being

(19:57):
like, damn, that was hard. I just got my tail whipped for
for for two hours. Right.I haven't felt that in a long time,
you know. And you understand,you always think you're working hard,
you always think you're doing right,uh, but you just don't know what
you don't know, you know,And that that place, those those guys
help push me to a new levelwhen you look at look around. Obviously,

(20:21):
you know, you and Drew grewup together. So you know,
there's that relationship and you know,guys in your coaching circle seeing each other.
And then when you see those guys, you know, Mark M.
Knight's still around the Penn State programand whatnot. When you cross paths with
the guys you grew up with,you know, the guys that you you
bled with on the mat and battlewithin the room. What's it like to
run into those guys now, asyou know, you're not kids anymore.
You're adults. You've got families,you got jobs, your names in wrestling,

(20:45):
and so are they. Yeah.I think that that when you just
hit now on the headliner, likethat's what we do. We talk about
family. Hey, how's how's thekids, How's everything going, how's life?
You know, we're just at thatnext phase of life. Right.
We went from young high school,young kids. I mean, Drew and
I grew up since six. Iwas six, he was seven in the
same Little league room, right anduh, all the way through high school

(21:07):
and then he went to pitt andI came out here. You know.
So I think that that you startand you have such a bond that it
doesn't the time doesn't really matter,right, you just you just jump right
back into conversation and how how yourparents are, how your how your wife's
doing, how your kids are.You know, just you just jump right
into that because that's that's you know, we go so far back. It's

(21:30):
we don't have to be beat aroundthe bush about the small talk, right,
it just gets back into how you'redoing, how's everybody doing, and
and uh, you know, youjust go hang out and see them and
uh, you know, it's justit's just pretty I don't want to say
odd, but it's pretty cool tosee when you when you go to these
tournaments and you do see people thatyou've literally known your entire life doing the

(21:51):
same thing you were doing, rightand at the same level. I just
don't I just tend to believe thatthat doesn't happen very often. And there's
probably five or six of us thatliterally have known each other for thirty plus
years and competed against each other,and we're still doing the same thing.
I just find it hard to believe, in another profession that that happens.

(22:12):
Going back to that summer of fourgetting sharp before you're heading the still water,
I've already mentioned the Mike Row comefrom behind. You mentioned Charles Griffin
come from behind. Then there's amatch in the pools against Jordan Freshcorn from
Virginia. And back in the systemwhere the vertical pairing where you know you're
wrestling your fifty sixty seventy guys oneach half of the bracket. You got

(22:33):
to get through to be the lastthree in your pool to wrestle in the
All American round the pools, you'vegot Cameron Doggett, who at the time
was one two in the country.You're one two in the country, Jordan
Freshcorn's one two in the country,depending on if it's win or portamage for
wrestlings, depending on the rankings.This was a buzzsaw. And you know,
fast forward in time, the guyyou eventually wrestled the NCAA Finals where
you won your title, you eliminatedhim in like round eight, Joey Slayton

(22:56):
from Iowa, so he didn't placethat. You're out of that side of
that pol But the Cardiac match,you get rolled multiple times by Jordan Freshcorn
in one of these round rob actuallythis wasn't even the round robin. This
was in you know, probably roundsix, round seven. You come from
behind to win that one by apoint the cardiac Coleman Scott era was nothing

(23:17):
new. But what made you,I mean, being so good. You're
used to winning all the time.What's it take to be used to being
down and know how to come backand win a match against somebody that's spectacular?
Was in that era? You know? Mike Row was great, Jordan
Frishcorn was great. These are toughopponents you had to come back and beat.
Oh yeah, I don't know.I never thought of it as being

(23:37):
down, you know. For me, it was always lead management was much
harder. I'd rather be down andthrow everything into the wind and get after
it and throw the kitchen sink athim and see what happens. But lead
management when you are up by onewas always way harder for me as my
whole life. I don't think Igot better at that until twenty eleven,
you know, when I was whenI was twenty five years old. But

(24:02):
I just never thought of it anythingother than don't try to do right.
I had belief in my ability togo score on anybody really in the world,
all the way up through even someof my late wins, all the
way up until twenty twelve. Right, it was just I never doubted myself
in the sense in those moments,I knew if I if I just kept
doing what I was good at it, I would prevail, right And I

(24:23):
didn't always right, but the thoughtnever wavered no matter what year it was,
no matter when it was, Iwas never out of a match because
I had ability to score on myfeet, I had ability to turn in
part teer and freestyle. I hadability to turn on top and folk style
right like I had. I justthought that whether that was true or not,

(24:44):
I don't know, right, Ijust had an internal belief that I
could be the best and I couldbeat anybody, and no matter what the
situation is, I can go score, I can go get my hands locked,
I can go score. Right.It was That's just the way I've
always sort of thought about it,you know. It wasn't anything more than
that. And it's probably coming upin a little league program, in a
high school program that they preached thatyou know, it's never over right,

(25:08):
get after it right. You've gotthe ability to score anybody in here in
this room, then that means yougot the ability to score anybody out in
the country, you know. Andthat's just it's just how we operated.
And I think that A lot ofus thought that, and you know,
it wasn't much more to it thanI believe I can go get this done,
right, and you know, andthen you just told the line and

(25:29):
see if it happens in an eranow where kids are committing as early as
like eighth grade to colleges and such, what do you remember about your recruiting
process and your commitment process and basicallywhat was the ultimate decision to go to
Stillwater and Rustle for Coach Smith?It was very condensed compared to what I've
been dealing with in the last recruitingthese kids, right, I mean,

(25:52):
I remember July of my senior year, going into my senior year is the
first year or even able to talkto a coach like a real recruiting process.
And then you go to Fargo,so it's sort of put on hold
for for ten days right right afteryou start. And of course we didn't
have cell I didn't have a cellphone. Maybe others did. I didn't
have a cell phone. So Iwas dealing with a landline back in Waynesburg

(26:15):
and listening to the voice or listento the answering machine every evening, uh
to see who I have to callback, because that was my dad's say,
if they call you better call back, and if you don't want to
go there, tell them you don'twant to go there, then move on
to the next. So I remembervetting through that process and and and it
was really at that time it wasabout reading magazines and seeing who you liked.

(26:37):
And you know, I remember,I know, you know, the
the NCAA tournament. You you mightonly catch a period of a match on
ESPN when they first started airing it. Nothing but I know why. But
I would VHS record all the NCAAand just rewatch it. So that's sort
of how I became probably narrowed someof my visits down just by watching that.

(26:59):
I had never been to the NCAATournament until after I'd already signed with
Oklahoma State, so so leading mywhole life, I didn't really know who
was great other than watching it onTV for those couple minutes or those the
one hour session section, or readinga magazine or newspaper, and then I
just remember everybody reaching out, youknow, and of course looked at Iowa

(27:22):
and Oklahoma State and OU and Nebraskaand uh, North Carolina, and those
were my visits and then West Virginiaand Penn State being so close, so
I figured that those could be unofficial, and I that was that was the
max that I did. So Idid seven visits, you know, and
again it was a different time.I took. My parents went on the

(27:44):
ones you could drive, so theywent to of course West Virginia and Penn
State and North Carolina. But otherthan that, it was it was all
my own. I'd get on aplane and fly out there and I'd have
to report back to my parents threedays later whatever two days later, and
say, hey, how was it. Well, you know, this is
what I liked, this I didn'tlike, and you know, so I
was making that decision on my own, and it was a you know,

(28:07):
they were fine with the places Ihad narrated down. They said, okay,
we've met all these coaches, theycame to the house, every single
one of them. You know,we're fine with with any of these choices.
It's on you now, you know, and that's it. And I
just weeded through it. And Iremember coming out to Stillwater was one of
my last visits, and you know, just they had just won the national

(28:29):
title of the year prior and youjust I showed up and Pat Smith and
Mark Branch sort of sort of pickedme up and just sort of took me
around. And I figured I realizedpretty quickly there was no we were just
writing conversation. There was no awkwardsilence sitting in a car for an hour
coming from Oklahoma City are tall soI can't remember which one, but it's
an hour ride, right, Andit just was It was just like,

(28:52):
Wow, these these guys are reallyeasy to talk to, and uh,
they're some of the greatest. Imean, this is the first four time
NCAA champ, and this is afour time five an lists that are just
chumming it up and talking to meand and and it's crazy today. I
just talked to Branch yesterday, right, And and Pat Smith still keeps like
those That's what really sold me onthis place. And then you get here
and you see a bunch of guysthat are just like minded. They're all

(29:15):
hanging out, They've all got thesame goals. They're they're not worried about
all the bs outside of outside ofthe room. They're worried about getting better
wrestling, hanging out with their brothersand and and taking care of school.
That was it and and that sortof just sold me on it. And
I remember coming back and I waslike that, I'm going to Okahoma State,
right, And they're like, well, we haven't. They hadn't met

(29:37):
John yet. And and you know, I remember John came and did a
home visit and you know, Icommitted right there in my living room and
in Waynesburg, and you know,that was it, you know, but
but it was very condensed. Soall that happened within you know, two
three months everything seven visits and sevenhome visits, uh, you know,

(30:00):
and then a decision to make onmy own. What was it? Was
there? Ever? You know,being around college programs a long time,
you know there's there's programs that takea flyer. They're like, you know,
the mid major will send an interestcard to the elite guys. No,
and they're never going to get avisit out of them. But is
there one school you remember getting acard or an interesting thing from them?

(30:21):
Like where is that? No?No, I was good. I do
remember like a couple of the ivy'sreaching out to me and going like,
I think you guys got something mistakenhere. I can't. I'm just not
that smart, right, And Iremember thinking like, wow, that's that's
pretty cool. But these guys,I don't know. Of course, different

(30:41):
area. You don't know all thestuff. I'm like, I can't succeed
at this place academically, right,It's just not who I am. And
of course they don't know. Nowthat I'm in the process, I've been
through the process. On the otherside of it. You got to throw
a net out there, right,because you never know, you know.
But I thought that that was prettycool when you get a couple of those
and you're going, oh, wow, these guys think come smart. They

(31:03):
must not have gotten my transcripts andmy SAT scores yet. But no,
I was pretty privy to where everythingwas. And I remember a couple of
small coaches, I can't remember exactlywho, but calling and I'm They're like,
hey, we're just calling here,you know, making sure. I'm
like, yeah, I appreciate it, but I'm you know, I'm not
interested. You know. It's it'sa thing my dad always, my dad,

(31:26):
my mom did, my mom anddad did through this process. I
had to call everybody back, noquestions asked. If they left a message
on that answer machine, I hadto call him back. And if I
wasn't interested. Even all the wayto the end of the day. When
I made my decision, I hadto call every single coach that I was
still talking to and tell them I'mnot going there and I'm going over here.
And they made me do it upuntil the last day when I made

(31:48):
that decision. That night, mydad made me sit on the couch and
in front of him and call everycoach that I where I wasn't going to
and I had committed Oklahoma State,you know, and it was probably the
hardest conversations of my life, eventhough it's not really that hard now looking
back on it that I'm just tellingsomebody I'm picking. I'm making a choice
for myself. But in the moment, as a seventeen year old kid calling

(32:12):
grown men that you've vitalized and programsthat you've vitalized and tell them, hey,
I'm sorry, I'm going over here. And some of them weren't happy
with it. And I remember somegetting yelled at and this and that by
by some coaches, and you know, really just but you know, I
think that that makes you who youare, right, being very upfront,
And it started pretty young in mylife, and you know, I think
it's from my parents. Yeah,and then jumping ahead to your your your

(32:36):
college coaching career, you're looking atlike how you've got to recruit these kids
now? You said, you know, July one, before your senior year.
Now it's like texting content. Imean, there's there's so many different
rules and compliance that you got togo through. Okay, can I we
can talk to the kid here,he can be on campus here for the
RTSTS. You know, there's somany different hurdles to jump through now.
Yeah, I guess comparing contrast alittle bit what it's like being a college

(32:57):
coach now from what you experienced onthe side of being recruited twenty years ago.
Yeah, you know, I thinkeverything that's been created in the last
ten years has been how do weget around the rules, you know with
the RTCs and the local clubs anddoing camps at this time of the year
to see this kid, you know. I mean you can contact kids June

(33:21):
fifteenth, going into their junior year, so it's over a year earlier than
I was used to, you know, and you can see a kid August
first, going into his junior yearand bring them on campus. So everything's
sort of pushed up and then it'sabout you know, to me, it's
still today, it's about relationships,right, And that's that's why you know,

(33:42):
we as college coaches or whatever youwant to call it. You know,
when you're in the in the collegegame, you try to do camps
strategically around the country. I seea lot of coaches coaching Fargo still.
And you do all those things toto create that relationship with that kid,
maybe at a younger age than thanyou're technically legal league able to you know,
parents, so you know, andthat and that's what it comes down

(34:04):
to. When you have a strongrelationship with the kid and then he trusted
in the system that you have andand the people around you and the and
the program around you. You know, and and you can put yourself in
a way way better advantage moving movingforward when you have some of the best
kids in the country that you're trainingand you're competing with, and you know,
and and that's the nature of thegame now is just just recruiting and
developing. And you know, Idon't want to get into the N I

(34:28):
L space that that that is allon top of that, right that that's
getting sort of out of whack andsort of out of whack for the entire
sport or the entire collegiate athletics.I should say, not just the sport,
it's it's everything, you know,but that it is what it is.
And uh, you know, we'rewe're tasked with a set of rules
or a set of standards that we'vegot to oh byde by and that's it,

(34:50):
right, and you've got to bethe best at them, you know.
So yet completely different ball, it'snot even the same. I think
it was a true recruiting process whenI was coming through, who could who
could present themselves the best to makethe best offer when I say offer scholarship.
That that's all we had to dealwith, you know. And so
when you when you're all dealing withnine point nine, it's, hey,
who's got the best program? Who'swho can put me at the best ability

(35:13):
to achieve my goals? That's arecruiting process. I believe that now it's
a little bit skewed with all thestuff that we'd deal with when we get
to Stillwater. You know, you'reyou and you know Nathan Morgan are kind
of connected when it comes to yeah, because they pulled both of you guys
at a red shirt twenty five thirtythree, and you know, you guys
are nineteen to oh, nineteen toone. I can't remember which one of

(35:35):
you were undefeated at the time whenyou both got pulled at the National duels,
not me o case. Okay,so you had I know you had
just the one because there was adiscussion within the rankings like, well,
yeah, those matches count now becausethey got pulled out a red shirt.
But you guys were on a tearand that decision. You know, there
were some some guys that were doingokay in the lineup, but you know,
John was never afraid to pull aguy in this case, multiple guys

(35:55):
and put him in the lineup ifyou thought they were ready. And you
know what were the just you know, discussions like amongst the team. I
mean, what did you know?You and Nathan again were right there,
bang bang, right out of theshoot. You know, California West,
you know, Western Pa coming intothis blue blood program and you guys are
setting the tone every duel meet rightoff the bat. I mean those national
duels were you know, here yougo, welcome to b and wrestling.

(36:17):
None of this open tournament stuff.Again, there was coach coach had mentioned
it, Hey, if you guysare ready and it's best for the team,
then then we'll make that call,you know. And and and I
wasn't ready. I wasn't ready.In the fall mentally I did I didn't
really understand what what college wrestling was. I thought I did, you know.

(36:39):
But but getting through that preseason andrealizing that there's this is a room
full of killers, and we've gotto be prepared. Nate, Nate was
unbelievable, one of the most skilledwrestlers I've ever been around, still today,
you know. But but we therewasn't much discussion. Hey, Nate
and doctor Mason were roommates over atbet at Hall. It was us three
in a room, right, Andso I remember going back and I'm like,

(37:01):
hey, if coach says they needus, let's go, right And
that's that's just the mindset we had. It wasn't anything other than that.
I wasn't making a call to mydad to see what he had to think.
I didn't. If coach said go, let's go, and the team
needed us, I don't, youknow, we could say hypothetically they didn't
need us. You know, wehad five NCAA champs that year on the
team and a couple other All Americans. I think we were doing okay,

(37:23):
you know in the team team scoringbusiness, but I think the coach just
wanted to start the duel meet offand he pushed us into those open tournaments
that fall and he said, thisis going to be our future and this
is what we need to do,and that's what we ran with. I
I would say today, I'm soglad that I wrestled that year. Whether
I was an All American or not, I think it made me grow up.

(37:45):
It made me realize that this isthere's a level to this that I've
got to be better and better eachand every time, and you know,
I've got to figure this out.And I'm glad I didn't have to wait,
you know. And people are like, well, what if you could
have won it? I said,oh, that's a big what if.
I don't I don't know. I'mglad I got four years. I mean,
there's guys in college for seven eightyears now. I was done in

(38:06):
four and couldn't be more grateful forit. It is a freaking there in
anything harder than going through a college, a collegiate season of a motion of
training of weight cuts every I mean, it's just one of the hardest things
you can do on on somebody's body, you know, So I'm grateful I
got pulled out and it was reallyjust coach saying, hey, we need
you, let's go, let's getafter this thing. Had some personalities on

(38:30):
that team too. One of themwas was Johnny Hendrix, who really played
the villain. Yeah in that area. You know, I remember, you
know that National Duels. I'm standingat matt side and you know, hendricks
is down to fifty seven that year, and you know, I just remember
somebody walking off the mat. Hehad just been in this war. I
don't even know if he won orlost, but his face is bloodied,
and it was like, that guy'sa warrior right there. You guys had
some warriors on that team. You'reyou're a warrior. Morgan's Hendrickson warrior,

(38:53):
like you know, you know,who knows how do you can describe Steve
Maco, But you know it's it'syou know, we talk the era of
where you came in and what itmeant to you and your teammates around you
to be part of such a greatprogram. So that line up that year,
right I'm an eighteen year old kidfrom coming out here. I knew
that the team was good, right, I mean they had won the national

(39:15):
title of the year before, sothere's no But there again, this is
sort of pre internet. There isno flow, There is no So how
do you track everybody that every everythingthat's going on in the college realm when
when you only get just a smallsnippet of it. And I wasn't just
a guy that was traveling around thecar. I was just living in my
own world playing three sports. Iplayed soccer in the fall, baseball in

(39:35):
the spring, right, So Ihad a lot going on. And I
remember walking in eighteen year old kidand it's me and the lineup ends up
being me Nate. So I wasI think eighth that year. Nathan was
around to twelve. Daniel Frishcorn whounbelievable. As you know, Daniel was
fourth I think that year, Yeah, he was fourth, and after you
know, him and Ronnie Delk werebattling for that spot. John made a

(39:55):
decision there, made a decision ontwo guys that were back and forth.
We got the fourth best kid inthe country, right, I mean that's
the level that we were at,and s Bow was forty nine, Kevin
Ward was Zach won a title thatyear, and Kevin Ward I think was
around twelve ron sixteen that year,A one fifty seven Johnny was at one
sixty five and won a title.Pendleton was seventy four won a title.

(40:20):
Eighty four is kid named Clay Kerr, and then ninety seven was Jake Roscholt
won his I think second title thatyear. Then Maco won a title that
year. Right, Like, some walking in to that lineup, I
didn't have to guess what it tookto be the best, right, I
just walked in and looked said,I'll just do what these guys do.
That's I just okay, just dowhat those guys do, you know.

(40:43):
And I fell in line and endedup, you know, being close with
Zach and roomed with him for thenext two years after my freshman year.
Right, And so I was justsort of following what these guys were doing.
I didn't have to have this hugeguess of this is what I need
to do to be a national champ, this is what I need to do
to be an All American. No, I just need to listen to coach

(41:04):
and watch these guys work, right, they live the right lifestyle, they
do the right thing in season outof season, and they're great humans,
right, And that's all I lookedat. So it was very simple in
the sense of just just look atthe people around you and follow along.
We don't need to rewrite the bookhere, and I don't need to be
this outlier. I need to know. I just need to do what these
cats do. They're winning at thehighest level. I might as well do

(41:27):
that, you know. And sothat's the way I thought about it,
you know, you said earlier itwas almost Yoda like there, you know,
you don't try, you do sowhen you hear and you see what
there is to do, how hardis it for you to actually put that
into practice? Though? There's onething of being able to seeing yourself visualize
yourself doing it, but the bodydoesn't always translate to what the mind wants.
Sometimes, How do you How didyou go ahead and take that next

(41:49):
step and get better? You know? I think that for me again,
just very very fortunate to have amindset and a little bit of talent,
I guess, if that's what youwant to call it. I don't.
I don't know how much I had, But the people that were around me.
You know. I remember after mylet me think my would have been

(42:13):
my sophomore year, I believe,and I was going up to thirty three
for the next year, and PatSmith worked on me with elbow control.
I never knew what an elbow control, or I knew what it was,
but I never never really developed it. And Pat worked with me for one
whole summer, and I wasn't allowedto hit anything but an elbow. And
of course, if anybody knows,Pat's a lefty, and I hit an
elbow control to predominately what the whata left leg lead does. But even

(42:36):
though I'm aariety all because I learnedit from Pat right and John hitson on
the other side, you know.But but I spent one summer and that's
all I was allowed to do.I wouldn't allowed to do anything. And
so I think, to answer yourquestion, I was just lucky to have
people around me that cared for me, and they could they could break it
down for me, and they putthe effort into saying, hey, comin,

(42:58):
this is what we're going to doevery day for three months, you
know. And it wasn't just hey, go do it. He's standing next
to me. He showed me he'sdoing it with me, right, And
this is in my mind the greatestcollege wrestler that ever lived. You know.
Of course, I'm sure arguments now, but in two thousand and four,
that is the greatest guy that youknow, in my mind. So

(43:19):
I don't know, I don't knowhow it translated. I think that that
the biggest thing was it was Ihad the ability. I had the willingness,
and then I had the people aroundme that were that they had the
willingness to help me. You know. I think that you need both of
those to be great. You know, first off, you have to have
the willingness, which is your mindsetand the and the heart to do it.

(43:39):
Then the second piece of that isthat you have to have the ability
to do it right. Not everybodycan can is I don't want to say
athletically and that whatever it is.You know, I can't. I can't
really hit a baseball that well,right, It's just I don't have the
ability to, you know, AndI could probably learn it, but I
just haven't spent the time to doit, you know. And you know,
and I was just again fortunate thatmy ceiling could keep growing and some

(44:02):
people they just hit their ceiling atan earlier age. And you know,
I don't know. I wish thatthere was a better answer for that,
you know, I just think thatit takes. I was probably lucky to
make some decisions I made at avery young age to put myself in a
situation to better me. And Ididn't even know it, you know,

(44:24):
making decision come to Oklahoma State andbeing around all those guys I named,
and then plus Mark Branch, PatSmith, John Smith, Eric Guerreo,
Shane Roller, Jamel, Kelly Mohammed, Lal Daniel Cormier, Johnny Thompson,
Tyrone, those right like that wasour room. Right, How the hell
don't you get better? I meanplaying and simple? You brought something up

(44:46):
earlier about playing three sports. Nowwe've got the elite kids coming through and
they're pretty much thirteen months a yearthey're wrestling, and I realized that's that's
you know, play on words there. But you know, the the balance,
you know, I'd always say atFreestein Greco is cross training for high
school season and then but at somepoint you rut your body wrestles so much

(45:07):
you need recovery time. How muchdid play in soccer and baseball. Help
you hug, you know, whenyou got to college to be a full
time wrestler, huge every athlete has. I only have so many double legs
I can hit before I just can'thit them again. I only have so
many single legs, so many highcrotches. Right. An NFL player only

(45:27):
has so many hits they can take, or let's say not a football player
only has so many hits they cantake. A running back only has so
many cuts they can make before it'sjust done. They can't do it anymore.
Right, we don't know what thatnumber is. Right, Nobody just
wakes up and says Coleman, youcan only hit one hundred thousand doubles in
your life, and then you goto hit the next one and something happens
and you're done. Right, Itjust it just doesn't work anymore. These

(45:52):
kids are finding these numbers at away younger age. You know. I
think you look at the look atthe national tournament and see how many shoulder
braces in the graces. Compared towhat I was in school, I couldn't
even tell you what a shoulder bracewas because we didn't have a person on
our team that wore one, right, and through my whole college career,
and we were all multiple sport athletes, right, And what it's come down

(46:15):
to, And I've had a lotof I've got three kids on my own,
and so it's a very strong inmy household. It's very I'm very
adamant you will play multiple sports,right, because because you only hit so
many hours, so many hits,so many numbers in one sport, and
we've got to make sure we maximizewhat you want to do. And especially
if you're training at a very highlevel, you only get so many years

(46:37):
of training at that high of alevel before your body just breaks down,
you know. So society has becomeso money hungry, and I understand it's
very hard for certain families. Certainlike if I'm just on the fortunate side
that if my daughter wants to placehigh level soccer and high level lacrosse and

(46:58):
something else that we can actually afford, because it's two to five thousand dollars
per sport per year for her,right, So I can understand where people
can't physically afford to do it,right, you know. Now the boys
are a little bit different, alittle bit easier, right, We wrestle
in the local club. We playedbaseball. Over here, we played football.

(47:19):
It's a little bit cheaper, butat some point that that money,
you know, when people just wantto make money and they say, you
need to do this twelve years.You can't miss here, or you're not
on the number one team, andyou can't do this, you can't.
You know, it became a systemrather than an organic thing where I grew
up in the local soccer club,the local wrestling club, and the local
baseball organization. Right, that wasit, and that's how we all all

(47:43):
went through high school. And Ithink you were probably to say what we
didn't, just say, I'm justa wrestler. No, when you're in
a small town, if you're big, you're the offensive line in football or
the defensive line. You're a heavyweight. You got to play three sports for
your high school team to be successful, and you're throwing shot put in track,
right Like, that's just what itis, you know, And as

(48:05):
a as a town, as acommunity, it's just what it was.
And we've lost all sense of community, all sense of town. We've lost
all sense of pride. I mean, we've got kids that don't even wrestle
in their high school season anymore?Right, that would my dad would not
happening here right in different er now. But I don't know. I just
think that we've got we've got acertain number of hours that we can put

(48:29):
on our body, and we're gettingto that our point way earlier in the
age because we do, like yousaid, thirteen months a year. It's
crazy, it's crazy. I'm I'mthirty eight years old, and I need
to break What makes you think thata twelve year old doesn't? Right?
And we as a sport specifically,people go, well, well, why
is there a high burnout? Right? And I ask every adult, well,

(48:52):
do you like being on a dietand cut weight? Making weight every
weekend? We? No, don't. I don't do that, okay,
So what makes you think a youngkid wants to do that for twenty straight
years? Right? And you know, I'm I was, I did it,
But but I will say I didnot cut a pound until I was
high school later on, and reallydidn't cut much, you know, until

(49:12):
a little bit my sophomore junior orhigh school. But really college, right,
that's when I really cut weight.We say diet, you know,
so my management, let's do theweight management. That's the buzzy, that's
die. Yeah, whatever you wantto call it, right, Like,
I didn't do that un till laterin life. Right, So my years
were I had a lot of yearsleft. Once I hit college, I

(49:34):
wasn't part of it. I grewto love the sport more later in life
than I did earlier. And Ithink it was because all this stuff.
I did play those sports all throughhigh school. I did didn't cut a
ton of weight or weight manute.I didn't have any of that until later
on in life. And that's whereas a sport, we we we get
lost in this. I need allthese trophies and I need this, and
I need to be a triple crownwinner, and I need this big belt

(49:57):
at super thirty two from six yearsold on. And you nothing against them,
but that's just what society has cometo. And we need to make
sure we tweet about it and instagramabout it. And so everybody knows how
good I am. You know,I to me, that stuff's pointless.
You know, my kids get probablyten to fifteen matches in a year as
a ten year old, and that'sit. Now we practice, you know,

(50:21):
we probably it's fun, right,It's fun for them right, fun
loves it, loves it. HeI mean, he's begging to go to
freestyle. Dudes never wrestled freestyle otherthan watching me, Like, we haven't
even wrestled a tournament. But he'sbegging to go to practice twice a week
with baseball going on, right,And that's what you want. Yeah,
I'll take you, Bud, I'lltake you. I'll drop you off.
Right. We're lucky you got somegood people around here to trade you.
But that's what you want. It'snot me, Hey son, we've got

(50:45):
practice to night. No, he'sgoing, Hey Dad, can we I
know I don't have baseball night?Could you drop me off out the club?
Pick me up after Cash's practice orlate? You know, that's the
cool stuff, right, And andI'm going to keep continuing to do that
until he's ready and mature enough tostart sing at a higher level and putting
more time and effort, and youknow, training at a different level,

(51:05):
because you only have so many years, so many hours of that high level.
When we moved to getting inducted intothe National Wrestling Hall of Fame,
so much of the credentials are basedon college and post collegiate success. We
look at your college success. We'vetouched on your freshman year Endo, finishing
eighth as a true freshman. Thenyour sophomore year you're the sixth seed and

(51:27):
you get bounced in the first roundby Bryce Lenhardt from Wyoming. This is
probably not something you'd had experienced verymuch in your career as a first round
loss. What goes through your headin that moment? What is the what
is the readjustment your sophomore year tocome back through? And the guys you
beat were you're hungery and I lookat some of those guys you beat too,
It's like another world of like,look who's coaching you beat? Hobby

(51:49):
Maldonado, He's coaching Obie Blankie's coaching. You know you got you beat it
eventually. NCAA champ Paul Donaho,you know, he you know, you
know you've got a who's who onthe backside, still all trying to get
the same thing. You've been onthe podium once before. Where is that
adjustment? How difficult was that sophomoreseason at the NCAA As I remember,
I thought, you know, goinginto that we we were favored to win

(52:13):
as a team, but it wasn'tnearly as as clear cut as it was
the year prior, you know,and it ended up being we end up
winning by pretty big but but itwasn't leading into that tournament, so so
there's a little bit more at stake, right, like as a team aspect.
And I remember coach just I mean, I've never seen seeing seen him
so upset with me. And afterthat moment, I said, screw it,

(52:36):
What's I mean, what's gonna happenwhen I can get another buttcheing,
I'm going I'm coming for blood.Right, probably happened to you was redoing
that haircut you had that year too. Boy, I had to back that
up. I had to do something. Coach was on my ass about it,
you know. You know, man, it was a bet that I
had ended up winning, you know, so, uh I just I I

(52:58):
really threw all care into the winthat for that I it was that that
moment where you say, I'm notworried about losing. I'm not worried about
I'm just worried about giving my maximumeffort. And really I was so upset
and mad that I was going totake that out on every kid I wrestled,
and it was going to be pain. And that's probably not the best
thing to say, but that's theway I had to operate. I just

(53:20):
I didn't care. I didn't care. I was going to come back and
give it everything I had every singlematch. My body freaking hurt. I
remember just feeling that that Sunday.I just couldn't even even Saturday. I
woke up and you got the concertSemis, and I didn't even want to.
I'm asking myself, how am Igoing to warm up? How am
I going to do this? Mybody I can't walk and my neck hurts,

(53:42):
my back, you know, andthen once you get into a your
you're good. But it was justsomething that I always sort of remember,
just you know, adversity, overcomingthings, obstacles that you don't see happening.
I never envisioned that happening. Thatwasn't part of the plan, you
know. So I had to.I had to bounce back. I had
to. I had to do itfor the team. It wasn't for me,

(54:05):
you know, It's for my myfamily, my team, and and
that was it right to show that, hey I am, I'm not that
guy. I'm somebody different. Ican I can rebound off this. We
go to the next year. Youmove up, you end up losing in
the finals too. God was prettygood out of Jersey, Matt Vealeni And
uh, you know the weight cutyou said it was kind of gone after

(54:28):
your sophomore year. You know,you got a little bigger your senior year,
but that that junior year, thatwas that refreshing for you? Or
you know that that season, whatdid it mean for you to have you
and Nathan both went up? Ye? You know what was meant for your
success and the team success? Andyou know, ultimately was it an opportunity
for you to get better as awrestler. You know, people say you
can learn wrestling when you're not cuttingweight. You're you know, when you're
cutting weight, you're just you're you'recutting the beat to scale. You're not

(54:50):
cutting to beat an opponent. That'sright, That's right. And you know
I think that it was it justtook it took a big load off of
me going in and hey, Ican just this waight, this weight,
cut this weight. But whatever itwas was way different this year, and
I can just get better at wrestling. And and I spent that whole summer,
like I said, I knew Iwas going up, so I spent
that summer just getting better at wrestling. I wasn't worried about, you know,

(55:14):
anything other than getting better at wrestlingfor for months at a time.
So it wasn't you know, itwas part of me going up, but
it was my mindset change, youknow, finishing eighth and fifth and and
realizing, well, this sort ofsucks, right, I mean, I
mean, I hate that I'm notagain. I don't want to sound but
like I wanted to be a nationalchamp, right, and so two years

(55:37):
in a row of not accomplishing thatand realizing, hey, I'm okay,
I'm halfway done here. All rightnow I'm at a fifty percent, So
it's not a twenty, you know, to win a title. I've got
to I've got to really get betterat this this thing that I want to
do, uh if I if Iwant to become a national champer. So
I had to make some changes,uh, in the way I wrestled and

(55:57):
keep developing and not just rely ona double egg and be good on top.
And that's where I really developed,you know, my elbow control and
some other things you know. Soso it was just everything worked together and
then I went up and weighed classand felt better during the year and and
really you know, grew to managethat that and I didn't feel small,
didn't feel any of that. Soit was it was really good for me.

(56:21):
And again, you know, havinga room with Nate Morgan where I
today, I couldn't beat him.I couldn't meet him then never beat him,
right, the guy was so goodand uh, you know, always
having that guy right next to me, you know, always kept me humble
and know that there was somebody alwaysout there ready to beat me. Again,
this is about you and being inthe Hall of Fame. But you

(56:42):
know, sometimes you know the guysthat get forgotten about, not because of
you know, they weren't good,but you know, you know, Nathan
Morgan is a guy that you know, the California kid people are like,
oh, must be a surfer dude. The kids are Baker's Field. Okay,
it's not like it's but it's adifferent feel. I mean, you're
from out you know, the grindingWestern then you have a chance to hit
the slickers from New Jersey and thenyou know, what's it like mix it

(57:04):
up with a California guy for thefirst time and in that situation, and
how do those feels in the wrestlingroom make you better as an athlete.
Nate was a guy that, literally, like we always say, well,
I had a go to shot.Mine was a double leg and then turned
into my elbow control, and thatwas the extent of really what I had.
Nate could drill twenty different shots andthen go out in the match and

(57:28):
hit twenty different shots all on thesame match. It was the most remarkable
thing I've ever seen in my life. I would see him hit, I'm
like, I ain't gonna work,and then I'd be out there wrestle them
and get hit getting hit in itright, and then he got in the
match and do it against number fivekid in the country. It was unbelievable,
just how he operated and how heflowed through skill, how his mind

(57:50):
was just he was ahead of histime, to be honest. He had
gone overseas prior to getting to OSUand lived in Belarus with some really high
level eyes, and so his mindsetand skill was so far beyond mine.
He was doing things that I didn'teven know existed, and not just in
skill or in the rest of it, but just like, hey, I'm

(58:12):
going to go live overseas for amonth and learn from Like I didn't know
who the heck was good at.I didn't know Russia was the best country
in the world. Like I wasjust living in this naive little coal mine
in town. I didn't even knowthere was a World Championships. I didn't
I just knew there was Olympic Gate, Like I didn't know any of that,
you know. And so then Imeet this guy. That's oh,
I've been studying this guy. I'vegot this film on Bella glaus Off and

(58:36):
John Smith, and you know,there's just stuff that I just didn't know
existed. And so when I steppedin the room, and I'm going like,
whoa, how can I be?Like there are levels of this stuff
and I'm behind, you know,And he made me realize that very very
quickly, you know, And Ihad to I had to figure a way
to I mean, I lived withhim, it was my roommate. I

(58:57):
had to figure a way to atleast have something to get him with at
night and not just get my tailwhipped every day and then go over there
and try to hang out with him. I had to had to find a
way to say, Hey, Igot you today, or got one over
you and you know, you know, I don't know. He pushed me
in different ways than he probably evereven knows. Junior year, Uh,
you know, you beat Nick Simmons, who had beaten you the year before

(59:19):
in the in the consolations, ifyou beat him to make the finals,
and then Matt Velni who uh,he's going to come back and eventually be
the head coach at Penn. Butthis is a guy that you know,
and you know your age group.You know this is a Jersey guy.
I'm guessing you guys had crossed pastperiodically prior to that. But what was
it about Matt that made him sucha tough competitor? God, he was
good. I mean he was goodrest. I mean his his ability to

(59:40):
score. Of course he reversed mein that in that match, and then
his ride. He had that crouchcall, Matt returned that that I physically
I stood up one hundred times andI was Matt returned one hundred times.
Right. He just had a tenacityand an ability that that was probably a
under I don't want to say undervalue, Not not in my mind it was

(01:00:02):
undervalue, but probably in the perspectiveof the wrestling world. His ability to
score on his feet. His defensewas unbelievable, and then his matt wrestling
was very very good both ways,both ways top and bottomore war and that
made him probably one of the mostcomplete wrestlers of our era, you know,
in that you know, having twotitles and running through some people if

(01:00:24):
you if you look at it,some high level, world class people in
his era, you know, Andand I ended up wrestling them in the
I think this said Buys at theOlympic Trials in twenty twelve, and I
wasn't able to get a win onhim til freestyle, you know. And
I had to get a couple ofyears older to figure out how to beat
this guy, you know. Soso you know, it is again a

(01:00:46):
guy that pushed me in it's todate and will be my hardest loss ever,
you know, losing the national finalsand realizing you don't you get three
hundred and sixty five days to reversethe feeling that you have today, you
know, and that's that's a veryvery tough pill to swallow. Moving to

(01:01:07):
your senior year. Eventually you winit clear, we know, we know
the end result of your senior year, but looking through that draw again,
you're not the one seed here,you're the three seed. Uh. You
know looking at you know Joe Baker, that's a that's a that's a California
guy to wrestled Navy. That waslike one of the hardest nosed dudes ever
probably known for him and Fanthorpe bleedingall over the place. I think it
might have been that year. Uh, Jimmy Kennedy in in the semifinals.

(01:01:30):
Uh, and then Joey Slayton inthe finals, who we had alluded to
you had wrestled him in freestyle whenyou were in high school. But uh,
I will look at this match whenyou won. Mike McCormick was officiating.
I don't know if you ever knewthat. I just know that because
it's from my hometown. But butI look at it and then yeah,
yeah, that's Bull Island a littleWell. Note that your celebration is one

(01:01:51):
that will be in my mind becauseI don't think i'd ever seen anybody.
Okay, you weren't running around witha flag like Johnny Hendricks was, but
the sheer moment of elation, itwas like put you on a side and
spin around like a top multiple times. I mean, never see anybody so
happy to you have won a nationaltitle and you did it with you know,
you're a cowboy. You pinned aHawkeye in the finals to win the

(01:02:14):
title. It's kind of hard toget more storybook than that. I think
that's why the emotion came out right. It's it was everything that, all
the emotion from the last three yearsof not being there and then and then
building up and the rivalry with OklahomaState and Iowa. You know, a
guy that I had a tight matchwith during the year, and and and

(01:02:36):
really get into a position also,you know, with a crackdown position that
we're sort of known for here atOSU, and and you know, getting
a pen. I mean you alwaysdream about those, Hey I'm gonna pin
this guy. Really, you know, this guy's pretty good, you know,
But but it ends up happening ina big moment for me. So
I think that that's where that emotioncame from. And you know, I've

(01:02:58):
always had a big support system inmy family and my friends, and you
know, there were a bunch ofthem in the stands. And again I
do all that, you know,everything I've done in my career, it
was very little for me in thosemoments. You know, all the people
that gave their lives to me,and and uh, you know, I
was a selfish one going through allthis, and uh, you know,
for thirty two years, I've I'vebeen, you know, doing what I

(01:03:21):
want to do in this sport andtaking away from something else. And whether
it's my sisters, my parents,you know, whether it's their time or
at whatever it is. Right,So when you get in those moments,
you know, and I remember allthat emotion coming out of me, and
you know, I remember my dadjust and to him he can say whatever,

(01:03:43):
but that was probably his biggest moment. I can remember how excited he
was. My dad showed no excitementyay or nay, right, you know,
good or bad. He was veryeven keel guy until that, until
that moment the first time I sawhim after the match, and I just
remember thinking, like wow, thatthat meant so much to him, you
know, And that and that's why, that's why I was doing this sport

(01:04:05):
and at a very high level.It wasn't about me and what I wanted
to do a little bit, butit is what I wanted to do.
But in those moments, I wasdoing it for them. There was somebody
else behind me. There was somebodyelse that that gave their life and gave
their effort for me to be inthis position. And it's the least I
could do is just you know,make them happy and give it everything I

(01:04:27):
had, because that's that's all Iwas going to do. As we get
to your college career, when youknow, as as an adult now you're
talking about kids now being selfish asan athlete, and then there comes a
time where you meet somebody up guesswhat, there's there's something other than my
other than wrestling that's in my brainas an athlete, you know, talk,
you know, what's the timeline andmeeting your wife and then say all

(01:04:49):
right, let's let's we're doing thecollege thing, we're doing the senior level
thing. How does that all tieinto the next steps post college? For
Coleman' Scott. So met my wifethe uh well, February early February fifth,
sixth, whatever of two thousand andeight, whatever the super Bowl was,

(01:05:09):
so if if if the Super Bowlof two thousand and eight. We
actually wrestled Minnesota that that day andshe was friends with with some of the
Matt Maids and the Matt made president. So started helping out with with them
and Brandy Esposito and Zach we wewe won the duel and then we went

(01:05:30):
over to Luke Silver's house, Iremember, for a very low key Super
Bowl we'll call it a party,but it was for us to watch the
game after due in the middle ofwrestling season, so so not much going
on, and they a whole lotof eating because you got to make wait
a week later, you know exactlywe might have we might have had.
I think Steve Silver ordered some pizzaidw you know, some some very basic
stuff that none of us really ate. And then they introduced us there and

(01:05:53):
and and sort of just progressed fromthere. And then we got married a
couple of years later, and you'relike later had my daughter, and you
know, and I remember going throughwe were both graduating. I graduated that
that fall and being done and thenjust sort of, you know, we
continued our relationship. And I rememberI was a couple of years later and

(01:06:16):
you know, going to say,hey, I'm gonna this is what I
want to do, and I wantto propose to her. And I was
old school, and you know,so I called her dad. I talked
to her dad, and which Ibelieve everybody still should. I don't know
if that happens still, but yeah, I talked to her dad. You
know, I'm training for the Olympics, right I'm making twelve thousand dollars a

(01:06:38):
year, and if I don't wanta tournament, I don't have money.
And she's working full time, andI remember just having the conversation of what
the hell are you doing. You'vegot a degree in two minors and you
don't have a job, you know, And I'm like, it'll it'll work
out, right. I'm just I'mgoing to train definitely through twenty twelve and
see where it takes me. Butdon't worry. I'm gonna win and i'll

(01:07:00):
be Olympic gold messle and we'll havewhatever job we want. And you know,
he's like, but you're not understandingyou want to get married prior to
that, and you don't have ajob, and my daughter's working full time
supporting you. Uh. And Iwas like, I understand that, and
it'll come back around. I promise. That's just how this world, you
know, just being a non wrestlingperson, he didn't understand, you know,

(01:07:21):
my mindset and thought process and whichI don't think any hell, And
she's an Oklahoma native too, Soyes, a little bit of that little
mill America like little yeah. Thethe what's the word I'm looking for?
The the value system is a littledifferent, you know, yeah, than
than some places these days. It'sstill kind of school. It's very old

(01:07:44):
school, and you know, butbut they they, you know, they
loved who I was and knew Iwas. We were getting married for the
right reasons and all that, andyou know, so he was fine with
it. It was just a grownup conversation that I would probably have the
same thing if if a guy cameto me and is making twelve thousand a
year and said, I want tomarry Oh, okay, what are we
doing here? You know, Butyou know, they were They ended up

(01:08:05):
being some still today some of thebiggest supporters of me and in my career,
in my life, and you know, you know, and and then
and so then we ended up startingour family pretty quick. And you know,
had Leyton in twenty eleven, youknow, leading right up to the
Games, and I think that shewas actually the the Monday before We're World

(01:08:26):
Team trials and twenty eleven, whichwhich luckily was in Oklahoma City, is
when Layton was born and then weknew we wanted to have you know,
two or three kids, and wewanted to start pretty quick, so you
know, I could eventually retire ata younger age and or we could travel
around and not be older parents.You know, we wanted to have our
later in life and be able toget them through school and then enjoy ourselves,

(01:08:50):
you know, for for multiple yearsthen, so, you know,
and then we just continued to ofcourse, Stetson was born in twenty fourteen,
and then Cash, my youngest,is twenty eighteen, you know,
so and we're definitely done now atthree. That's plenty in my mind,
you know, having a Cash who'ssix and nuts it made us realize,

(01:09:15):
okay, we're good. Yeah,And I guess it's also interesting because you
know, a lot of a lotof the wrestlers' wives who you know,
say they meet as freshmen, theygo through the entire college career, they
understand, they've seen it. Whatwas the adjustment like for you to kind
of, you know, tell Jessica, this is this is how senior level
is completely different than college. Thisis you know, you I've got a

(01:09:38):
coach, I've got a club,but there's no the schedule is all right,
I'm every three months, I'm inkur Plakistan, for example. This
is not like the college schedule.How did you have to brace her for
what the international was going to be? For that quad the best part of
meeting your wife the last semester ofyour college career and her coming from a
small school in Oklahoma that didn't havewrestling, she didn't understand what it was,

(01:10:03):
you know. And then we soshe really grew to her internet.
The international scene was really where shegrew to love wrestling, and that's what.
So that was the norm to her, me leaving for two weeks at
a time, a month at atime, and then coming back, you
know, so that that became thenorm tour. She didn't know any different,
you know. So Uh, andagain, I wouldn't be able to

(01:10:26):
do what I wanted to do withouta support system and without her understanding that,
you know, of saying, hey, this is what he wants to
do, this is what he loves. He will be gone for the next
month in Russia and Belarus and Ukraineall together. Uh, be bopping around,
and you know, I'm gonna sithere and do do our thing with
race, raise the kids and andall that and you know work at the

(01:10:47):
same time, So it takes avery special person and and I'm just fortunate
that I found one that was ableto do that and understand that. But
yeah, I was just lucky thatthey didn't. She didn't really know what
the normal wrestling season was when welook at that quad. You know,
you hadn't been on a world team. You've you've got an interesting situation to

(01:11:11):
make the team, and you doit in times Square, I explained that
the twenty twea act. I'm gonnabackup a little bit. I remember I
think the most miserable I ever physicallysaw you was two thousand and nine Sun
Kissed and I see you in thelobby and I was like, oh,
okay, you know Coleman's cutting downto sixty and you could just see,
I mean, you were sucked outand we're still hours away from Wiyans.

(01:11:31):
You look. I was like,I didn't even want to say hi because
I've made the mistake of talking towrestlers at the wrong part of the weight
cut, and it was like,you look like freaking skeletor and you know,
here we are still three years out, and that I mean getting down
of the cut. Yeah, it'snot every single week like college wrestling,
but at some point there's a changein how you were, how you were
dropping weight, and how you weremanaging it. What was that balance,

(01:11:56):
like, how did you have tolearn how to do that with the international
way in styles? And generally?I mean, what was it overstated or
understated how miserable you were that lastI guess twenty four to forty eight hours
before stepping on the scale. Iwas miserable at the front end of that
international career, right because I didn'tI didn't know anything. I didn't do
anything right, you know, Ididn't. I just ate what I wanted
to eat and drank a bunch ofpop and you know, just my normal,

(01:12:19):
my normal thing that I got awaywith for my whole life. And
you know, I just remember acouple. It's soda, by the way,
It's it's soda. It's not popright now, Southwestern Pennsylvania pop.
You know, I think that ittook me years of failure to realize that.
Man, I'm doing this at ahigh level. But I'm but I'm

(01:12:41):
but I'm really not right. I'mjust masking everything and competing well. But
but I don't feel my best.I don't feel you know, so really
in the in the twenty ten movinginto eleven, did it better than eleven
And then really just started to changeand my my my training way, what
I ate. I became very regimented, my meal prepped. I did everything,

(01:13:06):
you know, I get again,I'm just lucky, right timing Johnny
Johnny Hendricks was man one of thosetitle fights or I can't remember he he
had he was fighting in the UFCand big fight, and so they all
came up to still Water to dosome of his wrestling training and sort of
moved his whole camp up here.And I was in this in this time,

(01:13:29):
and he had a dietician at thetime that that none of us could
afford. I wasn't making any money, right, And I got to know
the guy and he really gave mesome just little bits and pieces of why
you do what you do when youdo it. And I stuck with it,
right, and it really changed mylife and it changed my system,
and and you know it was itwas not easy. It was a meal
prep every Sunday Wednesday as a family, and this is what I'm going to

(01:13:50):
eat. I ate the same thingfor breakfast, lunch, and dinner for
over a year, right, didn'tchange any bit of it, you know,
And and I cut out some somethings. And then so my weight
became a non issue. And Iwas training at forty one forty two and
making sixty kilos one thirty two,and you know that was that was nothing.

(01:14:11):
And I felt stronger, My shapewas better. And then I just
focused on getting better a wrestling andI developed that overtie ankle pick stuff and
all in that same moment. Andthe fall twenty eleven, moving into the
the winter, the spring of twentytwelve, so it was just it was
just right time, right place,right people. Twenty twelve, the Olympic
year is it's weird because the weighthadn't yet been qualified. When you go

(01:14:35):
through, you got to win thetrials, you got to and you do
it in Carver and then, whichis just you know, always odd for
a cowboy to actually not be booedin Carver. But then you go out
there and then you've got to waitfor Sean to qualify the weight. Then
you get the wrestle off. Imean, okay, from a nerve racking
standpoint, you have to go fromrooting for Sean to wanting to beat Sean

(01:14:57):
in a very short window of time. Well, first you got to win
the trials. That window of timehelp. You'll talk about the pressure through
that I was. It was anodd time. You look at it and
you go, you know, Iremember being upset that, uh, you

(01:15:18):
know that certain guys weren't in thein the the Trials bracketing, right,
Sean understandably reeses out he's hurt,and I'm going, what the hell I
gotta go to this tournament just toqualify myself for what At the time,
we didn't know what. Right I'mgonna go win the tournament. And you
know, there wasn't any discussion onthere's a wrestle off at Times Square.
That didn't happen until the day afterI won the Trials in Iowa City,

(01:15:41):
when everybody sat down and they decidedthat we're going to wrestle off in Times
Square to beat the streets and cold. When you're going to wrestle Reese one
match and then the best two orthree against shot that that was not decided.
So me going into the Trials wasjust, Hey, this is a
tournament. I gotta go win forthe unknown, right for the unknown to
give myself self a shot to bean Olympian, right, because if you
want to be an Olympic champion,you got to be an Olympian first.

(01:16:03):
And I remember going to that tournament. I felt great and I was like,
this is it's my time and I'mgoing to do it. And I
had some, you know, likeI said, upset struggles leading up to
it, but I trusted the teamaround me and the people around me,
and you know, I liked wrestlingCarver. Hell I got boot all the
time in there, you know,but we didn't. If there's one thing
we didn't lose in Carver my fouryears, right, never did we and

(01:16:26):
uh nor did I? Right,So so it's to me that that was
a good place to wrestle, youknow. So I was excited about it,
and you know, like I said, I didn't you know, by
the time the tournament came around,I was just focused on winning what I
had to do to be the best. And then I remember sitting in the
stands the second day and Coach Smithand Greoro and Kenny Monday came out and
they said, okay, well therest off is going to be beginning of

(01:16:50):
June, and beat the streets andyou're going to wrestle outside of Times Square
and you're going to wrestle Reese onceand Sean twice if the way it's qualified,
and you know, but we youknow, I remember going to New
York City that next week because there'stwo last chance qualifiers and I think Reese
and I I believe, I believethis, and I could be wrong,

(01:17:12):
but I believe we were. Iflew to New York City for just in
case Sean didn't qualify, and wewere going to have a one match for
wrestle off to see who went tohell Sinki for the last chance qualifier.
And we woke up Friday morning downto wait because I was waiting that day
to wrestle Saturday to see him.Watching Sean and China wrestled a true third
match and came down to clinch Ibelieve, to see if the waite's qualified,

(01:17:35):
and sure enough Sean Sean did it. So yeah, chair and for
him, yeah, unbelievably, youknow, happy, And then flew right
back to Stillwater and went to WorldCup for I think I spent two or
three weeks in Baku. Azerbay Jeanthat year had a great World Cup and
then prepped and that was in Mayand then went right into June for the
rest of off. So now there'sone thing too that you just brought up

(01:18:02):
that this past trials, it alwayscomes into mind. You go through the
whole the pomp and circumstance introducing theteam, and you're not on the team,
and you've got to go through theflowers, the presentation there. You
know what's going through your mind whenyou're up there. Okay, you know
that you just said it. I'mnot on the freaking team yet, and
yet here's all this, this thisceremonial things you've got to go through.

(01:18:26):
I remember vividly, I've never beenmore pissed off my life. I did
not add anybody, not at anybody. But just like you know, you're
sitting there and Sam Hayeswinkle, youknow, you're in line, Sam hayes
Winkle, Olympian Sam hayes Winkle,right, and then it's Olympic Trials champion
Coleman Scott You're like, yep,me. And then it's Jared Freyer Olympia.
You know, the rest of theteam's Olympians. Right now, I'm

(01:18:47):
sitting there going well this or amI really taking a picture with you guys
right now, right am I.We're going to do this, right.
This is the dumbest shit I've everseen in my life. And I'm sitting
out here the only one in thefreestyle team not qualified, right, But
I just went through the gutlet andrested all these dudes, and I was
and again it wouldn't add anybody orI was just this is stupid. What

(01:19:12):
am I doing? Let me?Let me go home. I gotta get
back to work. This is dumb. I don't want to do this,
you know. And that's the thoughtprocess I had in the moment, because
it's it freaking sings. When everybodyelse is laughing and smiling and high fiving,
I'm sitting there going like, Ijust I still got boys, I
still got uh, you know,three to four matches left before I can
be called an Olympian and and andwe're we've got to maybe do some other

(01:19:34):
things to even be considered that,you know. So it was a time
of a very odd time, youknow. And I, uh, those
guys this year, as I'm sittingthere, I know what they're feeling.
I knew what they were feeling,you know. Spencer and saying I knew
what they were feeling, and it'san uneasy feeling. You make the team

(01:19:58):
and probably one of the most dramatI mean, sun is down, You've
got the match against Bunch. Thenyou know, you hit the big throw,
he challenges it, it gets overturned, it doesn't get overturned. You
actually get a better score out ofit. And then there's Coleman losing his
mind again with the flag double flatjust times. I mean, yeah,

(01:20:18):
it's one thing to do it inan iconic arena like Carver or or Gallagher
Ibo or or something like that,but times square is probably not anything that's
on anybody's you know, Bingo card, I'm gonna win a match in times
Square to make the Olympic team.This is take us through that series of
emotions there. I think there's onlya few times in life that you'll ever

(01:20:41):
experience pure joy and like pure joy, like don't care what's around you,
don't care what's going on in theworld, pure joy. You're just in
a moment of pure joy. Andthat's probably the moment I have of just
it was a blur, right,Remember the whole day was a blur and

(01:21:01):
got banged up that morning in mywarm up and was a little hurt.
And but just remember having I thinkthere were sixty some people there for me.
My family and friends just came towatch it, and you know,
I think it was pure joy forthem as well, right, Like,
holy count, did we just watchwhat I thought we watched? Did we
just did that just happen in TimesSquare? You know, because I haven't

(01:21:25):
really watched it too much, butyou see some pictures and you see,
you know, Jessica's face, andmy parents and my sisters and and my
my aunts and uncles, all myfriends, like it was just a look
of everybody. I mean, CoachSmith, I've never seen him act like
that and almost tackle me off thething, and s Bo and Eric like
that whole group of people just theywere It wasn't just me, right,

(01:21:47):
it wasn't it was they put somuch into me so and that's what that's
how much more it meant through thehard times, through winning the trials,
through winning the rest of like allthese things, like there was all these
hurdles that we just we just keptgetting over, we kept jumping over,
and it wasn't me jumping it wasus together that this whole little posse of
people, of people that were behindme in my little group and my family

(01:22:11):
like that. We were doing thisthing together. I was never out there
alone doing this. And I thinkthat that's what comes out in those moments
when you realize, Okay, wow, I just did something pretty special.
And it wasn't even you know,a thought process, or it wasn't even
this is what I'm going to dowhen I win. I had no clue,
right, I didn't. I wasready to get back out of the
mat and finish the period, youknow. And that happens and you go,

(01:22:36):
wow, okay, this is that'sit, right, and you know
it's to be an Olympic champion,And that's all I ever dreamt about as
a kid. That was a pinnaclesince I've been ten years old. You
got to make the team first,right, and in this country that's pretty
dang hard. You know. Wewere at the front end of where we

(01:22:56):
are today with some of the greatestwrestlers ever, you know. So I
just look at it as a timeof pure join elation for myself, my
family, my friends, the peoplethat are around me, you know.
So it's it's just one of thosethings that you could never replace. We
get to London, you know,there's there's an opportunity here. You you

(01:23:18):
win your first two bouts and youreach the semi finals. You're in the
Olympic semifinals. Here, you areanywhere from four to six minutes because you're
in a you're in a rule set. You're in competing in what is pretty
much considered as a dark ages ofwrestling with you know, with the three
periods. In some cases, Icall it the binary code of wrestling because
it was a lot of oh oneone oh one ones in those situations,

(01:23:41):
especially over with our friends in Greco. But we look at this situation where
like you've always had a tank,You've always been able to be you know,
late in the matches, you're acomeback guy. We've we've we've established
that point, you know. Youknow, if you know, Damian Han
famously said, if there's time onthe clocker's time to score, Coleman's got
you kind of live that with someof your performances over the years. You

(01:24:01):
get to the semi finals and it'sjust you know, you lose two periods
to to a young stud name torule as Gara from Azerbaijan. I guess
one, what's it like to Iguess back this up a little bit before
you lose going through the whole processof you know, they're the opening ceremonies,
which some athletes that have to competeright off the bat tend to abduct

(01:24:23):
because you're on your feet for eightto twelve hours or however long. It
is the moment of going through thepomp and circumstance of the Olympics, when
when you take your competitive desire outof being like, okay, you have
a chance to soak this in.What was that like to go through the
Olympic experience? Opening ceremonies one ofthe greatest things I've ever been through,

(01:24:45):
right, And luckily wrestling and freestylewas at the back end of the game,
so we weren't quite worried about that. We actually left London to go
to Belarus for a couple of daysfor a week right after opening ceremonies,
but just being a part of agroup that's so minute small and like it's
like you get into the village andyou're like, wow, Wow, these

(01:25:06):
are the best athletes in the entireworld in one little half block area in
these apartment villas that you were eatingnext to you, say, Bolt,
and you see this guy over here, like all these people that you just
it was sort of in a dreamworld right there on ESPN. They're not
next to you, you know,And so I thought that that was some

(01:25:28):
of the coolest things that I couldhave could have done, is going through
the opening ceremonies and just being inthe village and seeing all these people walking
around drinking coffee saying hi, youknow, you know, and then getting
to the games in the tournament.You know, it was first time I
walked out of a tunnel, somethingI never felt with emotion and probably why
I rested a little bit tight thatthat first match, But but after that

(01:25:51):
it was again I was like,Okay, I'm good, let's go,
let's let let's let's let's do everythingI can and let it hang out.
And I'm not worried about whinning andlosing. I'm worried about giving it my
best effort. And that's that's whatI felt I gave, you know,
uh, you know, losing inthe semis. I never thought about losing,
so so I was how I neverthought that that that would happen,

(01:26:14):
you know, at that at theend that moment, and and it was
it was I remember Jim Ravenack wasa big reason why. You know.
He came and talked to me inthe hotel room and put it in perspective.
But if he didn't, I don'tknow if I would have come back
a couple hours later wrestled for bronze. I would have wrestled, but I
don't know if I would have donevery well. Because it was me and

(01:26:35):
Turvelle who had just we had bothjust lost and were sitting there together sort
of sulking and going, what whatthe hell just happened? We didn't envision,
we never thought about what we gotto do now. And Jim came
in and I was Jim was oneof been one of my mentors in high
school and and and just sort ofput it in perspective. Hey, man,
you got ninety seven people out herethat flew all the way here to

(01:26:58):
see you. You think that theyyou think they're film bad for you because
you're wrestling for a bronze medal inthe Olympics. Quit film bad for yourself.
Man, this is a huge accomplishmentbeing a medalist, you know.
And that sort of was like,man, he's right, He's right there.
There's more to it than just gold, right, And I have to
I have to have to. Ihave to flip that mindset now because it
wasn't a two day Tournament's a oneday tournament, you know. And I

(01:27:20):
was I was having to be backat the arena in an hour to get
ready to wrestle for a bronze medal, you know. But you know I
again, it was it was somethingthat in that moment, it wasn't for
me. I came back to wrestlefor all the people that were there for
me and that have been there mywhole life. Bronze middle match can eat
you. In my modo of Japan, you lose the first period, win

(01:27:42):
the second. And again we goback to the late cardiac heart attack inducing
Coleman Scott big moment, and itcomes back to the move that while you
feel like you're you're you're known fora lot of the outside of the Western
pa Okahoma fans would would would notreally think double leg with Coleman Scott,

(01:28:02):
even though that's that was one ofyour red and butter moves forever, but
it's also one of your your earliest, most successful takedowns, Like you hit
arguably maybe the first, or itdepends on if your Brandon Slay it's the
second best double leg you've seen atthe Olympics, if your Coleman Scott is
probably the first best, because youknow you're talking about iconic Olympic double legs.
You slaves are up there. Yeah, I think both of them got

(01:28:26):
me beat. You know, Ican still remember what sleigh double aged,
double legged setee of head on thesame side, hitting it, putting him
to his butt, Like those areway bigger shots than I ever had,
you know. So so I lookat it and go, you know,
I was just doing what I could. I was I was doing, you
know, I was doing, nottrying. You know. I remember coach
just saying shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot shoot, and that's

(01:28:50):
all I was wanted to do.And I just said, Okay, this
is going to happen because you gotyeah, and I don't know if I
ever have a chance do this again, and I didn't, so luckily I
took advantage of it, and againit was it was an emotional time and
it was again it was for theninety some people that happened to be in

(01:29:11):
the stands for that came to supportme. It wasn't about me. It
was about all the coaches that hadput their life on hold so they could
help me reach reach this crazy feetand my family and my wife and my
laws, all those talks we had, Okay, this is this is this
is for you guys. This iswhat you know. It's not not about
me and my credentials and you know, medals. You know, there's a

(01:29:33):
lot more to life than just wrestlingand metals, right, And I had
to figure that out. He belliesout, and then I just will I'm
sure you remember. And I'm sittingthere across the arena and there's just the
pounding of the mat, like clockis it over? Yeah, I mean
just a short time, but it'slike boom. But it's like you knew
it. And you know you didn'tget to hear ladies and gentlemen, please

(01:29:55):
rise to nationally. You didn't getto hear the fifteen greatest words in sports.
But when they put with the bronzemedal over your neck on the podium,
next best thing we've been taught,we lose. We got to get
the next best thing, next bestthing. How awesome was the next best
thing in London? It was againyou go back to surreal, right,

(01:30:15):
like, like you go, amI really standing on the Olympic podium getting
a medal and all these photographers aretelling me to bite it? What you
bite the metal? What you've seenfor for the generations and ages and decades.
Is this really happening to me?Right? It sort of puts it
all, all your your life,everything into perspective of wow, I can't

(01:30:40):
you know, I can't believe I'min this moment. I never I didn't
think again, I didn't think aboutthis moment. I didn't think about what
this would be like. I justwanted to win the wrestling match, you
know, you know, so yeah, it was probably one of the greatest
for myself, my family, youknow. You just look back and I
didn't. Again in the moment,you're going like, wow, I'm third

(01:31:00):
in the world at the Olympics,right, I've got this big and London
had these big old medals, youknow, and it's like I'll be I'll
go down. And again I didn't. I never thought leading up to this
moment that you know there's only wellat the time, there's seven of us
every four years. Now there's sixof us every four years. That even
get this opportunity to maybe stand onthe awards stand right, and so again

(01:31:26):
just grateful, just grateful for allthe people that put their life into me
and and all those kind of allthat sort of motion, everything that every
thought that you have in that inthat time, that's what comes out right,
like like I have my parents,my my sisters, my my wife,
my inlaw, they al sort ofput their life on hold, my
coaches so I could chase this crazything and and I did it a piece

(01:31:48):
of it, I did it,you know, so so it was it
was a great moment for for me. And and really just remember that,
you know, the only thing thatpissed me off is I had to listen
to a Zeri national anthem, youknow why I stood up there. But
other than that, it was oneof the best moments of my life.
And and their their their anthem doessound kind of sinister. We've we've heard

(01:32:10):
it's there. It sounds like,you know, Star Wars Imperial Death March
kind of mets right, yeahs aswe look back now, so you you
that's your your competitive career is over. Well granted you did make you know,
one more run at it, whichI mean anything about that that last
that last shot. You're like,well, let's let's give it a give
it a go. I mean,that's not what you're remembered for. But

(01:32:31):
uh, you know, I guessexplain giving it one more go. I
knew if I I knew, Iwas in the in the in the in
the time of twenty twelve, likedebating whether I wanted to be done or
not. And at the time,I was like, you know what,
I don't. I don't I don'tthink. I think I can't be done
yet. I think I might missit a little bit. So once I
continue to start that cycle. Ialways had in my mind, if I

(01:32:53):
start a cycle of I'm going throughthe whole thing right or wrong, good
or bad, and I'll have noregrets doing it. I still adult,
right, And of course I didn'tforesee us speaking job from the Olympics.
I didn't foresee us coming back.I didn't foresee us taking sixty kilos out
and me having to go down tofifty seven right when I made that decision.

(01:33:13):
But again, I have no regretsin anything I did. And yeah,
I mean it wasn't my best Igot hurt in twenty thirteen and tore
my pack and did all that right. So there was all these things,
these hurdles, but I think itmay be a better man at the end
of the day because I went throughthat and I had those failures and continued
to compete at a high level Ithought a high level. And you know,
did I come up short. Yeah, But you know again, it

(01:33:36):
made me who I was and Iwas able to compete until I was thirty
years old. Not many people wereable to do that. So you piece
all that together, you get thethree high school titles, You've been on
the podium at the NCAA's four times. You stood on the top of the
podium for one of the most iconicprograms in college wrestling history, you know,
the New York Yankees, if youcould, you know, talk about

(01:33:56):
titles, the Yankees of college wrestling. And then you've represent this country winning
an Olympic medal, something that isa very elite company. And you put
all that stuff together, you bundleall that. Are you at all surprised
again when we circle back and say, hey, you're going to be a
distinguished member of the National Wrestling Hallof Fame, Yes, yeah, I

(01:34:17):
am, Yeah, I just itnever dawned on me that this would be
an opportunity or option. Like nevereven last year, right, like people
said, oh, you could bein the Hall of Fame. Get out
of here, get out. I'mnot. There's no way I can be
in the Hall of Fame. Idon't. I don't. That's something that's
that's I don't know. I justnever just that's not something you wake up

(01:34:42):
and say, I want to bein the Hall of Fame one day,
right, That just was never athought for me. And that's just how
my mind operated. I wanted tobe in a national champ, Olympic champ,
and of course came up a littleshort, and that's all. I
just wanted to turn my focus intocoaching after that. But I never really
put much thought into you know,this could be and this could happen.
And you know, of course I'vebeen through it one hundred times thousand times

(01:35:04):
just living here for ten years priorand then now back here, you know,
so it was always something that wasintriguing. But I never said,
oh man, I'm going to havea granted plaqu up there with my face
on it forever. I just Inever really looked at it that way,
and so yeah, all the accomplishmentsstill it's it's surreal, you know,
And again just grateful to the peoplethat have led me here and got me

(01:35:27):
here, and you know, becauseit wasn't not about me, It's not
I couldn't have done this thing withoutthe hundreds of people that have propped me
up and pushed me here in thevillage of people that are still behind me.
Twenty twenty four will go in Onnorsweekend in June. What are the
next steps in wrestling for Coleman's gotno clue, no clue right now,

(01:35:50):
you know. Yeah, with everythinggoing on, I don't know. I
don't know. We might have seenmy last days in the sport. I
don't know. I'm not sure,you know. And so that's that's for
me to figure out, and timeto to get on with my family and
be around my kids a little bitmore. And I've got some time to
figure that out. And that's whereI'm at today, you know. So

(01:36:15):
I don't know, I don't know. I don't know what the sport's got
for me anymore, Jason, I'mnot sure. So I think I've got
to do some deep dive in thenext couple of weeks and like I said,
with my wife and my kids andand really poured my my life into
them and to see where I'm at. And you know, our kids schools
end of the day, so we'restarting summer school, so I get a
little bit more time with them,and uh, just excited about that right

(01:36:39):
now. And that's sort of whereI'm at. Coldman Scott. It is
uh to have your face etchedon stoneis again before even age forty. It's
like, you know, it's oneof those things you're like, this is
this is kind of nuts. Soh put in perspective, you know,
you you'll walk through those halls thenext time you walk in and after the
unveiling, and you'll be up therenext next to the grades who is probably

(01:37:01):
the one you know, where wouldyou like your plaque situated if you had
an opportunity to say, hey JackHaley, well let's move this around,
put me next to this guy ora woman in this case too. I've
actually never thought of that, butprobably carry collapse, you know, just
pretty much same town. I mean, sister was my English teacher in high
school, you know, the lineage. Probably just somebody that I've I could

(01:37:27):
whether he knows it. I don'tknow if I've ever told him. Pay
a large portion of my thought processand career to him. Just because I
didn't have to be the first onefrom Green County to do the things that
I wanted to do. He didhim. So it's a lot easier being
second being him and doing what hedid. I can't imagine, you know,
the outlier that he that he was, and to chase crazy things,

(01:37:50):
right, So I think that Ilook at that and that that's probably somebody
that that that you know, I'mwhere I'm at because of him, even
if he never said a word tome, just might be looking at his
career, you know, and watchinghim go almost got congratulations. It's it's
been It's cool from where I sitto kind of kind of sit there and

(01:38:10):
see athletes from my era, youknow, our era. I mean,
I'm not much older than you,but I saw you come through in high
school, you know. Logan Steberalso goes in with this class, saw
him coming through too. Car Montgomery'sin this class, saw her on that
first Olympic team for women in twothousand and four. So there's just so
many cool things to be able tosee and then to be able to kind
of chronicle your your journey has beenbeen a pleasure for me and I know

(01:38:32):
it's a it's an honor for theHall to have you in Schrina. It's
it's it's an honor for those thathave known you. So congratulations on a
great career representing this country, notjust Oklahoma State, but also the United
States. So again, congratulations arein order for you and your induction.
Thank you, and I appreciate itand appreciate all the work you do for
for this sport. Right. It'snot it's not easy, and I know

(01:38:54):
you try it through a lot ofmud to get where you're at, and
you know so we appreciate you.

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