2024 Medal of Courage Recipient: Jonathan Koch

Koch worked as a television producer and co-founded Asylum Entertainment which sold to Legendary Entertainment in 2014.
In 2015 his life took an unexpected turn when he fell seriously ill during a producers conference in Washington, D.C.
To save his life, doctors had to place Koch into a coma. After several harrowing weeks, he miraculously woke up with his mind and spirit intact.
However, he learned that he had survived septic shock, which had severely compromised his body. As a result, he had lost all or part of all four limbs, including his right leg and left hand.
Even in the face of such devastating circumstances, Koch refused to succumb to despair. Rather than accepting a grim prognosis, he made a vow to not only survive but to thrive for the sake of his teenaged daughter and new wife, Jennifer.
Despite being told that his chances of survival were slim, Koch defied the odds. His doctors were astounded by his resilience and determination to live.
One doctor, in particular, admitted that Koch had changed her perspective on being a doctor and what could be achieved when patients were willing to fight back. When asked how he survived against unimaginable odds by a doctor at GW hospital, a depleted Koch whispered the powerful truth, “I’m a wrestler.”
Over the next 18 months, Koch underwent numerous painful surgeries, prosthetic fittings, and endured intensive rehabilitation.
Despite the challenges he faced, he consistently surpassed his doctors' expectations.
Recognizing his mental and physical strength, a pioneering surgeon believed Koch was an ideal candidate for a revolutionary human hand transplant. In a groundbreaking procedure, Koch made medical history by successfully receiving a new hand.
While it typically takes several years to learn how to use a transplanted hand, Koch's determination and tenacity allowed him to succeed in its use within just four months.
Astonishingly, he was back on the tennis court soon thereafter, showcasing his resilience and unwavering spirit.
Today, Koch shares his remarkable journey with people worldwide.
Through coaching, leadership, and motivational speaking engagements, he inspires others to stand up and fight against adversity.
Jonathan Koch's story serves as a powerful testament to the strength of the human spirit and the extraordinary possibilities that can emerge from even the darkest of situations.

Bio by National Wrestling Hall of Fame

Episode Transcript

(00:06):
From the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. This is Legend is Legends. I'm
Jason Bryant. Prepare for a journeythrough wrestling's past, president and future.
As we'll hear are the great storiesof wrestling and success from the true legends
of the sport. Here on Hallof Fame Legends. Jonathan Codge a former

(00:36):
wrestler with a twenty one and sevenvarsity record at State College Area High School
in State College, Pennsylvania. Asan incredible story of resilience, Coach works
as a television producer and co foundedAsylum Entertainment, which later sold the Legendary
Entertainment in twenty fourteen. In twentyfifteen, his life took an unexpected turn
when he fell seriously ill during aproducer's conference in Washington, d C.

(00:59):
To save his life, doctors hadto place Conch into a coma. After
several harrowing weeks, he miraculously awoke, with his mind in spirit intact.
He learned that he'd survived septic shock, which had severely compromised his body,
and as a result, he'd lostall a part of four limbs, including
his right leg and left hand.Even in the face of such devastating circumstances,

(01:23):
Kach refused to succumb to despair.Rather than accepting a grim prognosis,
he made a vow to not onlysurvive, but to thrive for the sake
of his teenage daughter and new wife, Jennifer Spike. Being told his chances
of survival were slim, Kach defiedthe odds. His doctors were astonished by
his resilience and determination to live.One doctor in particular admitted that Kach had

(01:48):
changed her perspective on being a doctorand what could be achieved when patients were
willing to fight back. When askedhow he survived against unimaginable odds by a
doctor at GW Hospital, a depletedKach whispered the powerful truth, I'm a
wrestler. Over the next eighteen months, Kach underwent numerous painful surgeries, prosthetic
fittings, and indert intensive rehab.Despite the challenges he had faced, he'd

(02:13):
consistently surprised his doctor's expectations. Recognizinghis mental and physical strength, the pioneering
surgeon believed Kach was an ideal candidatefor a revolutionary human hand transplant. In
a groundbreaking procedure, Kach made moremedical history by successfully receiving a new hand.
While it typically takes several years tolearn how to use a transplant at

(02:34):
hand, Kitchio's determination and tenacity allowedhim to succeed in its use within just
four months. Astonishingly, he wasback on the tennis court soon thereafter,
showcasing his resilience and unwavering spirit.Today, Kach shares his remarkable journey with
people worldwide through coaching, leadership,and motivational speaking engagements. He's inspired others
to stand up and fight against adversity. Jonathan conscious story serves as a powerful

(03:00):
testament to the strength of the humanspirit and the extraordinary possibilities that can emerge
from even the darkest of situations.Twenty twenty four National Wrestling Hall of Fame
honoree with the Medal of Courage JonathanKotch Hall of Fame Legends twenty twenty four
Honors Weekend celebrates the induction this year'sMedal of Courage winner. Jonathan Koch is

(03:24):
a I guess A multifaceted movie mogulCEO. I mean, Jonathan, What's
I guess? The best way todescribe what you've done in your professional career?
Up to this point. I mean, I've done pretty much every job
in the entertainment industry over the lastyou know, thirty whatever five years.
I started off as an agent,and then became a manager, and then

(03:47):
a marketing company, and then awebsite, and finally when I was about
I ran MERV. Griffin's company wasabout thirty years old. And then right
after that I started my producing career. What was the draw to get into
this type of world, you know, I really wanted to try something different,

(04:09):
and so I came to Los Angeles. I tried being an actor,
which I was absolutely terrible. Inow that I do this for a living
and I know what good auditions are. I can't even imagine what was going
on in those rooms after I left, the hysteria that never let him in
here again, like all that.So I tried a little bit of that

(04:29):
and I had a little bit ofsuccess. But I think the only thing
worse than failing is succeeding in away in that world, because it's all
a lot of waiting around, youknow, and you can't control your own
destiny, and you really don't knowwhat the criteria is. You know.
One of the things, you know, we love about wrestling is it's objective

(04:54):
either win or don't, you know, either be successful or don't. But
in the entertainment industry it's much morevague than that. So I tried to
put myself in a position where Icould have more control over the outcome of
my life. And so I thoughtcreating my own opportunities was better than reacting
to other people's opportunities. Kind oflike wrestling in a way. You know,

(05:16):
if you're on the offense, you'recreating your own opportunities versus being you
know, sometimes being a counter wrestlerdoes help, but ultimately you've got to
go out and get the takedown.And of course we're going to tie this
into wrestling. You wrestled in highschool from State College Pennsylvania, a little
lion, as we were discussing beforewe got started, But you didn't go
to penn State. You got alittle bit away from home. You went
down Central PA to Shippensburg. Butyou did wrestle in high school. Talk

(05:40):
about, you know, when yougot into wrestling and how the sport I
guess kind of found you. Well, you know, when you're from Central
Pennsylvania, they just throw you onthe mat and a pair of jeans and
a T shirt where you're, youknow, five years old, and everybody's
crying, or half of them arecrying and the other and you know,
it's just wrestling was a hot butyou know, in central pennsylvania's a hot

(06:01):
bet for wrestling, and it hasn'talways been the way it is now,
but it's certainly. My father wasa huge penn State wrestling fan, so
he took me to rec hall everymeet. We never missed one. And
in fact, when I was veryyoung, they used to throw me on
the map before the matches and Iwould wrestle with the nitney lyon and he

(06:25):
would say, you know, grabmy arm and twist it and then he'd
do a flip and you know,and I was sort of the entertainment or
he was, and I was thefoil. And so I just, you
know, wrestling was just a partof my life since I as early as
I can remember, and I alwaysloved it. You know, I loved

(06:46):
the work, you know, morethan the competition. I just I loved
the challenging yourself, working against reallyjust your own expectations, and being part
of a team, but having anindividual sport so that you know, we
got into it really young. Sowhen you see Penn State wrestling in its

(07:08):
heyday right now, a little callbacksto your your time growing up. So
what's it been like to see youknow, Cayle Sanderson and their success from
Afar. Yeah, I'm blown away. I mean, I you know,
I grew up in the Jerry Vallecoand Jerry White and Andy Matter, they
used to come to my house.My mom would feed all of them.
That's sort of the first people thatI ever really learned wrestling from. Charlie

(07:30):
Getty, who was my favorite youknow, Penn State wrestler when I was
a kid, and you know,it was great. But if we had
one John Fritz, you know,in the finals, we were all gathered
around listening to it on the radioor whatever, you know, when we
didn't go to Nationals, Like havingone finalist was like such a big deal,

(07:51):
you know. And to see whatI think is undisputed the greatest dynasty
alive in any sport anywhere, youknow, right now, you know,
I love it. I'm so proudof them, and it's incredible to be
able to have your team be theone since in my other you know,

(08:16):
I'm a Browns fan in football,so I've taken a beating my whole life,
so it's nice to Yeah, AndI want to say, you know
that I think having a little bityou know, more competition. One hundred
point win is you know, it'sthe sign that something is great in state

(08:37):
college. But you know, thesport needs more competition. So I'm excited
for you know, what's going tocome, and you know, we'll see
what happens. But I don't seeanything stopping Kale or you know, Penn
State. I don't see anything stoppingthem. They're just, you know,
because they make great men, youknow, and they it's not just about

(09:01):
the result. In fact, Idon't think it's about the result at all.
I think it's about you know,what you do when nobody's looking,
and being responsible to your teammates.And all the things I love about wrestling
are manifested in the Penn State programnow and that's turned it into a juggernaut.
So I love seeing it. Youknow, I'm not going to lie.

(09:22):
I know when I watched Nationals,I'm I'm just so filled with pride
of you know, for who theyare. Yeah, I mean, how
how how close do you keep upwith the college and obviously your your career
in Hollywood is kind of you know, I learned firsthand that I was.
I was in a movie for oneday. I shot one scene. It

(09:43):
took all day. And then Iknow when I'm trying to track down actors
like Matthew Modine, I've been tryingto get Chris Pratt on the show forever
for other things, and it's like, oh, I get it now.
They're on set for months at atime, depending on the length of the
project. So I'm you know,as a producer, director and whatnot.
You know, you're kind of isolatedfrom from the real world at times.
So how much could you have keptup with wrestling of the last you know,

(10:05):
thirty some years. You know,there was a I was just actually
talking to my high school coach,who I hadn't spoken to in you know,
thirty eight years or something. Italked to him because I'm flying him
out to the Hall of Fame forthis event, and you know, I
just wanted to tell him how muchhe meant to me, because I don't
think they ever get to, youknow, get to know that. And

(10:26):
I was just telling him that therewas a dark period in my in my
capacity to follow wrestling. That wasprobably you know, fifteen to twenty years
where I could just follow it ina cursory way. It wasn't until I
went to Nationals again, I thinkin Philadelphia the year that Anthony Roblos won.

(10:52):
I went that and ever since then, I've just you know, I
watch everything. I have, youknow, six screens set up for conference
championships, like, I literally watcheverything. I try to know every wrestler.
And plus I'm on the board ofdirectors for the NWCA, so I'm
you know, I stay in touchwith wrestling as a fan, but also

(11:13):
try to put myself in a positionto be helpful in growing the sport as
much as possible and live in theservice of Mike Moyer and whatever they need
me to do. So I youknow, when I was in the throes
of it, I did take timeaway and I missed it, you know,
but I couldn't do all of it. You know, you talk about

(11:37):
going to Shippensburg get away from home, but wrestling in college was was not
something you were going to pursue,although you did say you did see a
little time on the mat, albeitin the non traditional sense. Yeah,
I you know, I showed up, nobody cared, which was great.
But I went to high school,you know, and so you know,
Scott Piper, who was a statechampion, and Robbie Cole, who's one

(11:58):
of my closest friends, is goingto be presenting me, is now the
head coach you know, at NorthCarolina. But so we had great you
know, I had great wrestlers onmy team. I just wasn't one of
them. So I think the coacheswere thought, well, maybe you came
from a good program, maybe it'sworth a try to let me come up
to the room and see what's goingon. But you know, probably five

(12:20):
minutes into it, they realized thatI was really going to be, you
know, a tackling dummy or wrestlingdummy and every kind of dummy they needed
me to be, you know,just for the guys there that were actually
going to compete on behalf of Shippensburg. But it was pretty short as far

(12:41):
as my time goes, because Igot rolled over, you know, guys.
The room was small, and somepretty huge guys came rolling through there.
My foot was planted and it toreeverything in my knee, and I
remember walking through the frozen parking lotin my shorts and my wrestling shoes and

(13:01):
sort of the lowest moment when yourealize, you know, wrestling's over,
you know, for me in thisway anyway. So by the time I
finished that walk, I thought tomyself, this could be the best thing
that ever happened to me. Alsobecause I had gotten everything that I possibly

(13:22):
could from the standpoint of character andthe standpoint of understanding what it took to
you know, worked through adversity andresilience, and I had already gotten all
of that from wrestling. And Iwasn't going to compete, you know anymore,
not by my own choice. Ijust don't think I was good enough
to do it. And I bythe time I reached the dorms, I

(13:45):
was ready. You know. Ithought to myself, this was fortuitous.
I probably would have hung on tothat way too long. So my career
came to an end, and sobe it. Yeah, some people talk
about the car ride home after,you know, after a loss, and
it's the speech you get from yourdad or your if your dad's a coach
or if it's a coach, youknow, your car ride home was a

(14:07):
walk back to the dorm. Yeah, and it was just one voice in
your head, it was, butit was so obvious, like, you
know, I've always been this age, even when I was that age,
and you know my perspective of it. You know, I love the quote
that roughly is I treat victories anddefeat like the impostors they both are.

(14:31):
And you know, that was always, you know, loud in my head.
And I realized that, you know, that I had accomplished everything that
I was capable of accomplishing, youknow, and that I worked as hard
as any human being could to overcomemediocrity, and I had some great moments,

(14:54):
and I was part of an amazingteam in State College or we were
defeated my senior year, and itwas just incredibly meaningful to be, you
know, a heavier weight fighting forthe opportunity to stay undefeated at times when
it would come down to my match, and I got so much out of
it, and I just realized,like from an attachment and relationship with my

(15:20):
teammates, it couldn't get any betterthan that, you know, my love
of that team and my appreciation forour coaches wasn't going to get any better
than that. And so when Ishowed up at Shippensburg, probably trying to
hang on to something that was overwith before I got there. You know,
getting hurt was fortuitous in a way. It saved me for myself a

(15:43):
little bit because I always felt likethe pain of quitting was worse than the
pain. So you know, Ihung on as long as I could.
When you get away from wrestling,you get into your career, you know,
obviously you'd take this through the Iguess the cliff notes version of where

(16:03):
you got to where you are today. But the Medal of Courage honor that
you're being, you know, recognizedfor by the National Wrestling Hall of Fame
in twenty twenty four was for somethingthat was not sports related. It was
something that you had to show thatresilience that you learned through wrestling. And
of course, if if anybody isfamiliar with your story, and if they're

(16:23):
not, twenty twenty did a agreat piece on you several years ago,
and you know, the Rocky themecomes through, and it's kind of fitting
that it was NCAA's in Philadelphia thatbrought you back into the sport, given
your affinity for Rocky and using youknow, as you said in ne'sary,
the Gospel of Rocky, so tospeak. But the medal of courage is

(16:47):
bestowed upon somebody that's overcome seemingly insurmountableodds, and that's been a wrestler.
And for the uninitiated, your insurmountableodds caused you to lose digits, lose
a limb, and have a veryunique and at that time probably a you
know, expervolational surgery. Yeah,with the hand transplant. So let's go

(17:10):
back in time. You're on yourway to a conference in twenty fifteen.
You wake up, you don't feelgood, You get on a cross country
flight, you go to a conference. You're across the country from where you
live in California to Washington, dC. And basically the wheels come falling
off here. So you know,kind of give us the short version of
when all of these problems with youraffliction came to light. You know,

(17:33):
I was supposed to leave on Monday, and the conference that we were going
to is called Real Screen and it'sspeed dating for producers and networks, for
buyers and sellers. So it's crucial. It's the super Bowl of reality television
every year. And we had justsold our company and I felt a huge
responsibility. So even though I feltterrible, I got on a plane anyway,

(17:57):
probably against better job, and Iwas pitching Discovery Channel, and I
saw three executives that I was pitchingtoo, but there was only one there,
so I pitched to the one inthe middle, figuring that was her,
and then as soon as it wasover, I wandered out to the

(18:17):
front of the hotel. I didn'ttell anybody, and I got a cab
and I said, take me tothe nearest hospital. And within two hours
I was told that I was probablygoing to die tonight that night and that
I should get in touch with myfamily. So things were getting bad very

(18:41):
quickly. I mean, my bodywas just so swollen, and you know,
just all the signs of terrible ofit being attacked, and nobody knew
what was attacking it. So theywere trying everything, but nothing was working,
and I didn't have a lot ofoxygen in my brain. So I
was being pretty obstinate and trying toleave the hospital. And it was a

(19:03):
pretty big fight. And so ata certain point I think I don't remember
this. I was told this,you know, for people around me.
But at some point I tried totear out all the you know, needles
out of my arms and all myIV's and everything, and tried to leave,
like stomp out of the hospital likeFrankenstein, I guess, and my

(19:29):
father in law grabbed me by myfoot. He's like half my size,
and he grabbed me by my footand held on until the nurses came in
and induced me into a coma.And you know, I was terrifying.
The coma was terrifying in itself.But as you said, for the sake
of brevity, you know, Iwoke up to, you know, the

(19:51):
idea that I was going to haveto get these amputations, and you know,
that's that's what happened. And fromthere it was a fight to stabilize,
you know, my health. Itwas a fight to get stronger,
to be able to survive the amputations, and it was a fight to come

(20:11):
home. You talk about all ofall the fights, and that's you know,
an eighteen month span, I believe, year and a half from the
moment it happens to when ultimately,you know, you're starting to come around,
you're starting to recover, and whenwe look at the things that are
going through. Okay, you're notyet married. It's your fiance, and

(20:33):
then you've got a young daughter,a young teen daughter at the time,
you know, we go back,I guess nine years ago. At this
point, we're almost at a decadepast it. The resilience of wrestling,
which you talk about, it's like, yeah, you learn things here.
You know, it's not something that'slike fresh in your mind. You're like,
I got to do this because I'ma wrestler. It's not like a
happy go lucky kind of sports youknow, you know Karate Kid Rocky Cava

(20:56):
story. It's a this is legit. I know, this is this is
real. This is real war problems. This is not sports. So where
did you call on that strength from? I mean, you had, you
had the sports system of your sinto be wife and your and your family,
But where else did you draw thatfight from to to basically get through
this incredible ordeal? You know,I remember the exact moment, you know,

(21:23):
when I was really being obstinate andin my mind the doctor who was
treating me in Washington was like acrossbetween Godzilla and Broomhilda. She was like,
I was really not having a goodtime of it. In my mind.
She was like six five, twofifty, like pushing me around,

(21:47):
you know, And I remember Iwas saying terrible things to her, which,
since she's told me what those thingswere, totally the opposite of my
personality, I would never do that, but I would. I asked her
how she even became a doctor.I end up according to her, I
remember this like nurse outside my door, rolling up her sleeves, like nobody
talks to doctor Abel like that.Like I thought she was going to kick

(22:11):
my ass. So things were notgoing great, and I think she was
trying to get my attention. Soshe said, You're probably going to die
tonight, and you need to getin contact with your your family, your
daughter. And when she said thatmy daughter in particular, because you know,
Jennifer and I my wife had beenin contact, but my daughter didn't

(22:33):
know anything that was going on.And when she said you should get in
contact with your daughter, it allkicked in and I was like, there
is no way that I'm calling mydaughter to tell her that I'm probably going
to die tonight, that I'm goingto pull everything that I am and everything
I've ever been and all of thetraining I've had, all the love that

(22:56):
i have for my family, andI'm just not going to die. I'm
going to fight and you know,so that was what was in my mind.
And you know, when I gotthrough all of it, you know,
when they finally induced it, andagain like for the brevity of this,
like you know, the ordeal washuge. Like it was you know,

(23:18):
months and months without eating. Itwas, you know, having my
hand. My hands and Pete weredead and necrotic. They were black,
you know, it was they weremummified, and you know, they were
doing everything they could, and justby good fortune, somebody came up with
the idea of what was wrong withme, and they told my doctors and

(23:38):
they were able to give me chemotherapyand everything and start bringing me around.
At a certain point they had tostop treating me because they were killing me.
And so you know, according tothe doctor, they stopped and said,
you know it's up to you,Jonathan, you know, to me
now in a coma fighting off allthese you know, snake bite terror,

(24:03):
you know, coma terrors with snakesbiting me all day every day and being
held captive and like all these horrifyingthings that were happening in my coma.
And when I came out and Iwas stabilized, they eventually wanted to transfer
me to Mayo Clinic, and wehad made a lot of friends during that

(24:25):
time, and so everybody sort ofgathered to say goodbye, and they were
bringing me scarves and you know,George Washington University Hospital, chotchkes and hats,
just to wish me best of luckon my way to Mayo. But
Broomhilda wasn't there, and I wasglad because I remember talking to her in
a terrible way. And then allof a sudden, everybody got quiet,

(24:52):
and all the doctors parted, andthey're standing at the door was this diminutive,
very sweet looking blonde doctor who Iimmediately recognized was doctor Abel, who
I thought was Broomhilda. She wasactually not that at all, of course,
and she asked everybody to leave,and I was really concerned about what

(25:21):
she was going to say to mebecause I didn't treat her well. And
she closed the door behind me,and she turned around and walked towards me,
and I could see tears rolling downher face, and of course I
didn't know she could cry, orthat she was, you know, really
even a human by my earlier recollections. And she came over and held my

(25:41):
pod. She said, I've neverseen anything like you in my life.
She said, you are the sickestperson that will ever leave this hospital.
There's no reason that you should beleaving this hospital. And I just don't
know how you did it. AndI had you out of me, so
I couldn't really talk to her,and so I whispered to her the only

(26:06):
thing that I thought I could getout that would make sense, which was
I'm a wrestler. I told herI'm a wrestler, and she hugged me
and we both cried, and youknow, and she left and they shipped
me off to Mayo Clinic. Sothat's in that moment, I think when

(26:26):
I decided not to call my daughterand tell her that I was going to
die, I think that's the momentthat I tapped back into my wrestling life.
In the timeframe too, You're you'reaway, so you're you know,
you live in California, You're inDC, then you get shipped up to
Minnesota. So what was the timelinethere? How long were you in DC
at George Washington? How much timedid you spend at Mayo. I was

(26:51):
two months I think in George Washington, and then another maybe two months or
maybe two and a half months atGeorge Washington and a month and a half
half of Mayo I left. Igot sick in January. I went home
in May. And then we getto I guess you repair yourself. Your
body is starting to heal. Sowhat are the steps between that? Okay,

(27:15):
you know, if you watch thetwenty twenty, your hands and bandages,
you've got basically that you know,the term Gangreenes used a lot.
You said necrotic, they're black,I mean you and you said pauw,
which is if you know, lookingat the video with you know, your
hands and bandages. Essentially, it'skind of what it looked like. So
apt description there. When's when's thetime frame between the time you're like,

(27:37):
okay, I'm back in California too, when this doctor shows up with this
idea looking for that right patient tosay, you know what, we're going
to try something here. And I'mnot trying to make light or find any
humor in this situation. But you'veworked in Hollywood. You've seen scripts that
are worse than your your story here, and you've seen scripts that are better
than your story. And then I'mthinking of this transplant that bad movie body

(28:00):
parts back in the day where it'slike, oh great, we got the
serial killer's arm attached to it.I mean Pardoner reference there. But we
like this, that's so interesting,he said that. I mean, first
of all, the idea of handtransportation was brought up at Mayo Clinic and
they really really wanted to do itat Mayo. My daughter's birthday, sixteenth

(28:23):
birthday was coming up in may andI said to Jennifer, like, we
we have to go home. LikeJennifer literally, she's well known at all
these hospitals as the greatest advocate apatient has ever had. She she sparked
up into some superhero you know mode, and so she ordered a wheelchair off

(28:45):
of Amazon. You know. Theyhad put me in an old folks home
because I was getting it was terrifying. I mean, and I'm not scared
of anything. It was terrifying.They they said, you're not sick enough
to stay in the hospital, butyou have to stay here to do hyperbaric
chamber treatments, which I give creditto saving so much of what I have

(29:10):
left, because those hyperbaric chamber treatmentswere incredible and I could feel it.
But they were also terrifying because theyput a plastic hood over your head and
a metal collar around your neck andput you one hundred and five meters below
sea level from a pressure standpoint.And for a lot of people it was

(29:30):
nothing. They were sitting around doingcrossbar puzzles. But I didn't have I
couldn't move and I was laying down, so I was suffocating a lot,
like during the treatments, and theywere, you know, like way over
an hour long, and it wasreally tough, and so I started to
wear down, Like after about twentyeight of those treatments, I had a

(29:56):
panic attack in the hyperbaric chamber,which really sucks because they can't just take
you out because they or you'll getthe bends, so they have to bring
you up slowly. So it wasall terrible, and I had gotten to
the point now where I was like, I don't think that I can keep
doing that anymore without having the reactionthat I had because I was just worn

(30:21):
out from it. I was justworn thin from everything, so I said,
let's escape. So I was verydisappointed to tell doctor Moran, who
was the hand transplant at Mayo,who had never done a hand transplant,
we can't stay. Jennifer said,I wrote down the name of a doctor.
She put it in her pocket andshe says, if he says this

(30:42):
name, he's our guy. Solong story short, we tell him.
He says, I totally get it. My mentor and the greatest hand surgeon
in the country is at UCLA whereyou live, and his name is doctor
cod Asari. Jennifer reached in herpocket, she opened the paper and said,

(31:03):
Cody Azari. So we were like, he's our guy. So we
made some phone calls. I gothome on a Friday. We met doctor
Azari on Monday, and you know, I was on two hundred and seventy
milligrams of morphine every day. Ireally didn't even know what was going on.

(31:23):
I didn't know that, but Ididn't really know what was going on.
So we go and meet doctor Azariand we're like, like you kind
of like making light of it.We're like, do you have a hand
here that we picked from or howdoes this work? And he looks at
us like this is not going towork out. You know, you guys

(31:44):
are too google. So I wasin a wheelchair, still had my hands
and feet that were necrotic. Iwas bald from the chemotherapy. I mean,
things were just not great. Andhe said, here's what you have
to do before. I can't doanything until you can walk. So,

(32:05):
you know, I had a sixfoot seven, two hundred and eighty pound
trainer that we traded for got ridof our pt people who just were not
up to my level of expectations,and we got somebody that knew nothing about
it. He knew nothing about anything. He was just a trainer at Beach
Body that did like P ninety xand all that, and he became family.

(32:31):
But he took one look at meand he was like, what the
f am I doing? Like whatis this? And I said, don't
worry, like, just push meas hard as I can handle it.
Just push me. So we didsome crazy things that I'm not supposed to
admit, and we worked really hardso that I could walk back into doctor

(32:55):
Zzari's office. So I met thisproselytist and whose family now too, And
I said, Ryan, if Ican't walk by the time my next appointment
with doctor Azari, like we've missedthe boat, Like we're not doing what
we're supposed to be doing. SoRyan, my procettist, Scott, my

(33:16):
giant trainer and me. We workedreally hard, and soon the first day
I ever had my prosthetic, Iwalked on it and it was blinding pain.
I mean, it felt like razorblades were shoving up into my leg.
But I was like, I'm goingto show doctor Azari what I made
out of and about. You know, four weeks after that, I walked

(33:43):
back no crutches, no nothing.I walked back into doctor Zzari's office with
a completely straight face, even thoughin my heart I was dying a thousand
deaths. And I looked at himand I said, now what. And
it was sort of that moment likethe Rocky movies were Adrian tells him to
win, Like doctor Zari was like, oh my god, Like you're my

(34:07):
guy. And we became brothers.And we went to work, you know,
at it day and night, andwe became partners. And so he
organized He was my quarterback on myon my transplant team. He organized my
you know, he actually did myhand amputations, which my hand was the

(34:32):
first one in history of mankind tobe amputated in order to be transplanted.
So it was a real you know, it was a real epiphany moment for
him, and a really, youknow, brand new moment for the world
of transplant. So yeah, wewe got together and I kept working on

(34:52):
getting stronger. And this is mytransplant. This is the when I didn't
get transplanted. That's my regular hand. So it works really great. And
to your point earlier, Jason,which I am amazing that you said that
we had. I went two yearswithout a hand and waiting for and about

(35:17):
a year in I got a callfrom doctor Zari and he said, I
just want to tell you, honestlythat we had an option today to move
forward with their transplant. And Isaid no, And I said why and
he said, well, the handwas perfect except for he was a murderer.

(35:38):
And you know, again go intothe script. So, I mean,
you see scripts, you see badscripts, you see bad screenplays all
the time. This would be one. Yeah, you're you're you're tossing out
right, Yeah we done that thing. Is like we were so bonded at
Jennifer and myself and doctor Azari andthe u c l A team, like

(35:59):
we were so did that. Inever said anything but okay, I you
know, I will follow doctor Azzari'slead and if I never get a hand
transplant, because it's never right.Okay, fine, but you know he
just said, I didn't feel it, like I know you and I know

(36:19):
who you are as a person,and I know that you can't have this
hand. It just wouldn't work.So I said, trying, and I
went back to work, and youknow, I went back to the office
and I was trying to work,and you know, and I was a
real mess. I can't even imaginewhat those people must have thought, you
know, when they came in andsaw me sitting there with no hand and

(36:43):
no hair and mostly dead, youknow, taking pitches, you know,
their pitches for their life dreams tocome true. And I tried really hard,
but my wife is the only onethat can break through. So yeah.
So then eventually we got the call, and it was an urgent call,

(37:04):
like get in the car and cometo the hospital right now. Doctor
Azari is going about an hour south. I lived an hour north to get
the hand, to meet the familyand to meet me back in the hospital,
and you know, about two hours. But unfortunately movie script time,

(37:28):
Barack Obama was in La so allthe freeways were shut down, so we
couldn't get anywhere near UCLA. Sowe're in the car like this most momentous
occasion and dead stopped in the middleof the canyon, can't move, And
I was calling UCLA, telling him, you know, because time is of

(37:51):
the essence when you have something likethis, because you know, the hand
will start to die. So itwas like a chance that we weren't even
going to be able to do itbecause they wouldn't be able to keep it
long enough, even though it wason ice. So we finally got there
after like two and a half hoursin the car, we finally got to

(38:13):
UCLA, and you know, theygrabbed me and they rushed me back into
the pre op area and got meready to go, and there wasn't a
lot of time to think about it. Doctor Zara showed up and he was
frazzled from the traffic as well.So I said to him, you know,

(38:34):
let's just be here together for aminute, like to get our minds
right, like what you're about toembark in your super Bowl and you know,
and I want to be good foryou. And so we sat for
a minute together and got our headsstraight, and he said, is there
any question I said no, andhe said, there's a possibility that I

(38:55):
won't be able to do it,and I said, I understand. Whatever
happens happens, right, So yeah, that was it. And then they
took me to surgery. And nineteenhours later, you know, I woke
up and I asked doctor Zari,you know, if they did it,

(39:17):
I decid, did you do it? And he said, yeah, we
did it, and it was great. It was successful. And to his
words, not my memory, hestarted I started singing the Rocky theme while
they were wheeling me out, andI was holding my arm up in the
air, straight up in the airfor what reason, I don't know,

(39:38):
and they wheeled me through the hospitaland all I remember was that there were
doctors and nurses asleep all over theplace, you know, in the operating
room and in the waiting area,in the hallway. On the way back.
You know, they had obviously beenthrough a war. And they took

(39:58):
me back and I got to seeJennifer for the first time, and I
could move my thumb on the firstday. You know, it was pretty
miraculous. A lot of work todo and then between now and then,
but you know, then and nowit was pretty miraculous. There's one scene
and it's just you know, thewhole Rocky theme going through that keeps coming

(40:21):
into my mind, and it iswhere Rockies going and going down no more,
a going down no more. Itseems to be like, you know,
it's a mantra. You've been youwere knocked down multiple times, not
just from the onset. By theway, we didn't even mention what was
the name of the I mean,it's like three words that are like,
you know, thirty characters long.So what was it was? Eight eight
H or h LH H l Hbages city his you know, psytosis.

(40:45):
It's like a kid's thing. Adultsdon't usually survive. It's like one in
twenty million people get it. Andyou know, it was just U It
was fortunate. It was unfortunate andfortunate because I had spent my whole life
preparing for a fight that I neverknew was coming, you know, And

(41:07):
I have to say, I alwaysfeel like, you know, we're all
being chased by a bear of onekind or another. You know, all
the time, you never really knowwhat the size of the bear is or
how mad it's going to be.So in my mind, you know,
resilience is not a moment. It'sa muscle, and you work on it
all the time. You practice it, even in the gym, you push

(41:30):
yourself to the brink of whatever,you know and get to take a shower
and get something to eat. Butit's all in preparation for opportunities but also
for challenges. And the bear thatwas chasing me, it was very big
and it was very mad and Ibarely escaped, you know, like it
was. It was formidable, youknow, of a poae. So yeah,

(41:53):
his HLH was the diagnosis of it. So basically what it was is
that your my immune system was encounterthe virus. In this case it was
epstein bar and which is like monoand everybody at epstein bar exposure, and

(42:13):
instead of being able to fight itstarted fighting everything and started killing all the
good and the bad. And myown immune system was trying to kill me.
So that's that's what it really camedown to. As you've come through
all this, you know, youryour life refreshed again. You're you're back
to being active. One thing thatthe twenty twenty documentary or this the piece

(42:37):
mentioned that you know, you're oversix feet tall, you're over two hundred
pounds, you were fit, neverdrank, never smoked, never did drugs.
You were, you know, kindof one of those active LA types
and you know, getting back tothat, what was that type of fight
like to be able to do something? One you're missing a leg too,
You've got you know, nubs onyour your one hand, you've got a

(42:57):
hand that's not actually yours to beginwith. What about your other foot?
That was one that that didn't reallyget talked about in some of the features
that have been done on you.I mean you say they were all for
necrotic, but no toes. Okay, So so it's it's you know,
like again for lack of a betterterm here, like you've got a paw
for that would be your right foot, right left foot, left foot?

(43:19):
Okay, So it is uh,you know how getting back to being active.
You said you moved your hand,you move your thumb like right away,
but uh, the motor skills tofind motor the you know this this
type of thing and learning to playguitar all that type of stuff, what's
the timeline for that? What isthe you know, the mental I guess
frailty in some respects because it's likethe used to kodes, I used to

(43:42):
be able to do this. I'mI know I can do this. My
body's just not letting me do thisyet. How did you fight through those
struggles to get back a degree ofnormalcy in day to day life? You
know, I mean it's obviously agreat question, but I I've always lived
my life that way. It's nota California thing. Just to dispel that

(44:02):
rumor. I lived that way.You know, when you're a mediocre talent,
and you know, I wanted toalways do the very best I could
at whatever I could do. SoI just you know, to compete,
even to be able to compete.I just didn't want to do anything that

(44:22):
would take anything away from me.So that was something that you know,
had a lot of momentum and inertiain my life. So I think it
falls more into the only the goodday Young department, you know that it
does some sort of weird California lifestyle. I still very much consider myself a
Pennsylvanian. I always have and peopleask me, you know where I'm from,

(44:45):
I say Pennsylvania. So I thinkbecause that's where the fight comes from.
What I was trained to do inPennsylvania carried me through all of this.
And you know, I never Ispent one second looking back, you
know, I just didn't and thatincludes not asking the question why did this

(45:07):
happen? Which I didn't ask,but also you know, looking and reflecting
to your point about what I usedto be able to do. I never
really pursued my used to is.I just kept pushing my what can I
do now? You know? Andmy question to myself has always been what

(45:28):
do I do now? And itwas so much so Jason that at Mayo
Clinic they sent seven psychiatrists to myroom, including the guy we called the
bow Tie, who was like anold school, you know, Freudian sort,
with patches on his elbow. Andhe came to meet with me in
my room and he said, youknow, Jonathan, we don't really feel

(45:52):
like you know what's happened to you. And I said, I don't think
that's what you're really saying. Ithink you're saying that I'm not being even
in a way that makes you feelcomfortable, that I am reacting like everybody
else. And I'm not going toyou know, I'm gonna All I can
do is say what do I donow? Try to get stronger, try

(46:14):
to get better. You know.The day I woke up from my COMAI
asked them to tie resistance bands tomy bed because I knew that my only
chance to survive was to work atit, because that's always been my only
chance to survive in everything I've everdone. So that's what I did.
And I didn't know how far itwould go. I didn't know how well

(46:37):
I would do, and I reallydidn't think about it. I just you
know, really stayed in the inthe here and now of it all and
worked at it. And you know, one day became the next, and
it took me, you know,a year to get back to the office,
and I was working out with mygiant trainer a lot, you know,

(47:00):
in between now and then. ButI started skipping rope again. You
know that video that you saw wasprobably six months after I got maybe I
don't know, eight months after Igot hurt, after I got my prosthetic,
that I started jumping rope again.And you know, at that point,
we were taping the handles onto myhands so that I could jump rope

(47:24):
because I couldn't hold them. Soeverything just had its own timeline, its
own progression. And you know,now I compete a pickleball as well as
I would have competed if I didn'tget hurt. So I think it was
all a journey to get back.It's hard. It's hard to encapsulate it

(47:44):
all in this conversation because there werea lot of twists and turns of things
that happened, and setbacks and surgeriesand all of that. But in my
mind to pull back on it andreally look at it on a straight line.
You know, within eight months,I was back, you know,
training at my fullest capacity to train. The hardest part was I would fall

(48:10):
asleep a lot during my workouts.You know. Scott would say, you
know, do this, and Iwould do it, and then I'd fall
asleep and he would wait patiently untilI'd wake up, and then he'd say,
do this. And that was thehardest part, was trying to overcome
the exhaustion that my body was manifesting, because you know, your body gives

(48:34):
up way before your mind does.And my mind was ready to go.
But my body was tired, youknow. And it hurt a lot,
and it still does. You know, I still find it, but I
love it and I wouldn't change anything, you know, I wouldn't go back.
If people ask me, you know, if you could would you go

(48:54):
back, And the honest answer isI wouldn't. This is an incredible way
to be able to live your life, mostly because I've always just wanted to
be helpful to people, you know, and making television shows wasn't helping anybody.
But my story, not me,but my story has helped people,

(49:16):
and that feels great. You know, if what happened to me the only
thing that happens to you is yousurvive, that's terrible. But if you
survive and your story is helpful toother people being able to survive, that's
the greatest thing ever. And Ireally mean that, Like I I'm so

(49:37):
fulfilled, you know, with thatopportunity to be of service. You know,
I wouldn't have wished this on myselfor anybody else, but now that
it's here, I'm not going towaste it. When you go back and
look, hindsight is al is whatyou make of it in a lot of
ways. But you go back totwenty eleven, you talked about anything Rollbosol,

(49:59):
Right, he's a guy that wasborn without a leg, and you
know his struggle in wrestling, hisstruggle in life is it's not similar,
but it's also in a situation whereyou know, he's born without a leg,
you had one amputated, and youlook at the similarities between wrestling and
fighting, you know, fighting throughwrestling and what he endured and what you've

(50:20):
gone through and indored, and belike, man, it's really weird that
the first Nationals I went back towas the one where he wanted Yeah,
well, you know it was gosh, it just so much respect, you
know, for the fact that Iwas very fortunate, Jason. You know,
I accomplished everything in my life beforeI got hurt, right Like,

(50:42):
I had already sold my company.You know, I had already been successful
in my career. I already hadamazing relationships and an incredible kid and you
know, and great friends, andbefore anything happened. I was forty nine
when it happened. You know,Anthony, you know, came the idea
that he never was, you know, like everybody else, and he went

(51:07):
on the attack and said, Idon't care about any of that. And
it's very inspiring, you know,it really is. And I'm you know,
really proud to get the same awardyou know that he has, even
though I don't feel in any way, you know, worthy of it.
The way I look at him orthe other people who have you know,

(51:28):
it's an incredible group of people,and I'm very grateful, you know,
for the award. But I lookat Anthony and I go, like that
guy, that's a hero, Likethat's a hero thing to do. To
not have that, you know,able body from the time you were born,
so you get used to it.It's all you've known, but you

(51:51):
don't let it stop you from doingthe things. And I have to say,
in a way, you know,I maybe his story affected me in
a little bit of a way,like I never let anything that happened to
me stop me from doing anything thatI want to do. You know,
I don't. I think I followedin his you know, footsteps that way,

(52:16):
and so I do really appreciate beingable to see that in addition to
him, you know, when Ione of the like the third show I
ever sold in my life was calledThe Gift, and it was about transplantation
and we took unfortunately a girl whoyou know, I was in a car
accident and we took we followed threeof her organs to the recipients, and

(52:40):
we told all three of the recipientstory and then we brought them all back
together with her mom, which was, you know, incredible emotional and I
really knew a lot about, youknow, the emotions behind transplantation because of
that show. And you know,so there were many different sort of elements

(53:01):
for all the you know, forall the things that might have happened to
me that were challenging, there werea lot of great things that bullied me.
And I think watching Anthony and Nationalsin Philadelphia, which, by the
way, was the first time,even though I'm from Pennsylvania, it was
the first time I had ever runthe Rocky Steps, and you know,

(53:24):
I was in tears because I thoughtI would go there and run the steps
and whatever and it was personal.And then I got there and there were
so many people running the steps andI was like, this is incredible,
Like it's amazing to me that thishas become like a place that people go

(53:46):
to prove to themselves the difference betweenwhat they're able to do and what they're
capable of doing. And they findthat on those steps, and so did
I, you know, and itwas just an amazing weekend, like,
you know, to be there inPhiladelphia and to watch him win, and
you know, and yeah, itwas really something, and you know,

(54:10):
wrestling's meant a lot to me sincethen. I obviously, you know,
I pursued being involved with it ina way. But it all really gets
back to when I spoke on behalfof the NWCA in Cleveland, right before
the I think the greatest Nationals evercontested, when Penn State and Ohio State

(54:32):
went at it in Cleveland and boNicole, you know, Miles Martin,
maybe the you know, to meanyway, the most meaningful match you know,
I've ever witnessed. You know,I think it was all very fortuitous,
you know, to be able tosee that, to see it then
and be able to recall all thethings I felt then when I got sick

(54:54):
myself and needed to rise up,and you know, see the the opportunity
to overcome because of chosen suffering,right like something we're all taught when we're
young, Like we don't have todo, you know, one hundred push
ups. We get to do ahundred push ups. That was the difference

(55:15):
between why the people who came tomy aid, the doctors and nurses and
all these incredible people, that whatthey recognized in me that they don't see
in other patients is the fact thatI didn't look at this as a burden.
I looked at it as an opportunityto climb. And that all came

(55:37):
from wrestling as a whole, youknow, watching Anthony in Philadelphia, you
know, just all the resilience,like drinking from the hose of resilience that
I got to do my whole life, you know, came into play,
and it's probably a big reason whyI've come back to wrestling with such you

(55:58):
know, ferocity. Got to askNCAA's or in Philadelphia in twenty twenty five,
it'll be the first time, youknow, wrestling's there since twenty eleven.
You're gonna run the Rocky steps.I could run the Rocky steps on
my hands, and I if Ican go and I'm able to be there,

(56:20):
COVID really put a big, youknow, cramp, and I don't
really want to talk about that much, but I'm highly immunosuppressed. So I
haven't been anywhere, you know,in four years. Going to the Hall
of Fame, it'll be the firsttime I've been indoors with other people that
I don't know since COVID. Soyou know, it's a big it's a

(56:46):
big event and I'm going to dothat first, and then I'm going to
see how it goes, you know, because at first when COVID came out,
they told me I couldn't survive becauseyou know, I'm immunosuppressed that highest
level of any human being, becauseyour skin is the largest organ, right

(57:06):
it's one organ, and so becausemy transplant is skin, I'm very vulnerable.
But I also am ready. I'mready whatever comes comes, you know.
And they've come a long way andbeing able to treat COVID, and
I got COVID last September for thefirst time, and and I made it.

(57:31):
So I'm very confident that, youknow that I'll be able to whatever
comes comes. But I thought tomyself, like this is it, Like
there's no better place to break thiswhole, you know, hold on my
life than to go to the Hallof Fame and be around you know,

(57:52):
our people, your people, mypeople. Like when I spoke in Cleveland,
I got this sense right away thatI didn't really need to tell all
the things because everybody there was madeof all the same stuff I've made I'm
made of, and they would beable to do exactly the same that I
would do. If this God forbid, happened to them like they would react

(58:14):
the same way that I did.So it was really an opportunity to talk
about the greater parts of it,not the parts that I sometimes have to
share with other people who don't reallyget the idea of chosen suffering or you
know, what your capacity is like, or you know, all the things
that you and I've learned about beingaround wrestling. So it's all very tied

(58:37):
in to wrestling, you know,And gosh, you know, I can't
wait to go. I'm so excited, and I'm bringing a lot of my
high school teammates are coming, andyou know, even my friends who don't
know anything about wrestling, who justwere there for me and watched me go
through all this, and lifelong friends, you know, nobody under twenty five

(58:59):
years as a friendship will be attendingand with me anyway. So I'm really
excited to go, and you know, grateful for the opportunity, and even
though I don't really feel a wordworthy, you know, I will accept
it on behalf of you know,an entire community. You know that wrestling

(59:22):
is that raised us to be tough, and raised us to be resilient,
and raised us to overcome no matterwhat. So that's how I'll accept the
award, you know, on behalfof them. Yeah, and we'll close
with that. In terms of whenwhen people get these calls, distinguished members

(59:44):
have a different feeling than the Orderof Merit in the middle of courage.
Who were you notified by and whatwas what was your initial response? Well,
I think the first thing was beingdominated, which was Kyle Klingman from

(01:00:04):
Flow Wrestling. Kyle, you know, and I have had a lot of
conversations. He saw me speak onceand then he and I have you know,
periodically speak on Zoom and it's reallymore of a personal, you know
thing between the two of us,and you know, just conversations about resilience
and you know, just I thinkKyle's incredibly bright, and I think that

(01:00:31):
he really wanted to know some ofthe things that maybe I could share with
him that would increase his sort ofunderstanding and knowledge about it because I think
Jason, like you know, peoplealways ask me, in whatever terms they
ask it, they always ask me, what do you know that I don't
know? Which is based on theidea that I was, you know,

(01:00:53):
dead for a little while, andyou know that whatever you go out to
like the very edges of your ownmortality and come back. There's a story,
you know there, and I thinkwe started with that. We became
you know, friends, and thenunbeknounced to me he submitted me for this,
and Mike Moyer and you know thatkind of thing. And then I

(01:01:16):
got a call from the Hall ofFame, and you know, they said
that I was being considered for itand just wanted to make sure that I
would be able to be there,which in that moment, I know,
was sort of a nothing question forthem, but for me it was a
mortal question because agreeing to be theremeant the possibility at that time anyway,

(01:01:39):
that I might, you know,pay the price for it. And I
said I would because I you know, I felt like it was the right
thing to do or not for me. I just thought it was the right
thing to do, so I saidyes. And I had no idea whether
I would actually get the award ornot. But when they called and told

(01:02:01):
me that, you know, thatthey were going to move forward with it,
I at smith, you know,I was very honored. You know,
I'm sure you picked up a littlebit. I don't really like being
the center of attention. So alittle bit of me was like, that's
why I'm a producer and why I'mnot, you know, in front of

(01:02:23):
the camera, because I don't wantto take any of that. I just
I like the work, and Ilike the work that I did, you
know, with the people around me. Because when I left George Washington,
I'll wrap up with this, youknow. They my doctor, Abel said,

(01:02:43):
you know, you changed the wayI felt about being a doctor,
about the way we all feel aboutbeing a doctor, and about what we're
willing to ask from our patients,because patients have a tendency to lay down
and say fix me, you know, and the willing my willingness. First
of all, Jennifer had to convincethem to save me because there was no
reason for them to try to saveme really from a probability standpoint. And

(01:03:08):
she said, you know, he'llfight and you'll love him and I'll make
you laugh and you know, andyou know if you save him, you'll
be glad that you did. That'swhat the doctors told me. That my
wife said to them girlfriend at thetime, wife now, And you know,
so when she said that, Ichanged the way in which she thought

(01:03:30):
about how that asked the patients tobe more involved in their own survival.
You know. That really meant somethingto me. And that's the word,
right, like, you know,not to be passive in your own life
when you're in the midst of whateverchallenge is, but to rise up,
you know. And the wrestling communityis particularly well suited for that, and

(01:03:53):
they had one response to it.But when I spoke to five thousand rumatologists,
it was like an extent a foreignlanguage, you know, or all
these other groups that I spoke to. So to me, it was just
like, you know that that's theessence of this, which is I got
better because I wanted to be goodfor the doctors. I wanted them to

(01:04:15):
feel great about their job, notjust me surviving. I don't know that
I could have survived if I mightwas so obsessed with myself, but I
was obsessed with every person that cameinto that room that tried to make me
better. And we all did ittogether, and it was it was like
building a team, you know,like a real life living breathing felt like

(01:04:39):
a wrestling team. Like we allhad our jobs to do, but you
know, in total, we didsomething great together, you know, kind
of like winning a meet together eventhrough just the efforts you made in your
own match. And that's, youknow, what I did, and that's
what I was involved with. AndI still know all these and I'm still

(01:05:00):
involved with them and their friends andfamily now to us. And you know,
I think there's really something great aboutforgetting about yourself and really doing things
on behalf of the people that youever care about, or behalf of the
people that are working on your behalf. And that's what I did. So

(01:05:23):
that's how I will accept this award, you know, on behalf of them,
you know, and on behalf ofall the people in my life that
encourage me to stand up and fight, and all the people that I get
to now encouraged just stand up andfight. This is for them. It's
been an interesting story to dig into. More information if you're curious about Jonathan

(01:05:46):
story, Jonathan Kotch, that's jO N A t h A n koc
h dot com. It's got thevideos, it's got the features, also
got information if you're interested in hearinghim speak. You know, he's done
Ted talks and things of that nature. So we'll find out if that's going
to be more of an in personthing of course you say you do zoom
probably I don't know how many hoursa day, but just learning about your

(01:06:08):
story even more than an already hadknown, and then being able to talk
to you about this one. Congratulations. You might feel like you'll deserve it.
I think that anybody that hears yourstory can can check that box pick.
Yeah, you definitely deserve this recognition. So I appreciate your time and
congratulations on the Metal of Courage fromthe Hall of Fame. I really appreciate

(01:06:28):
your time, Jason, and Ireally enjoy you. Know, all the
work that you do is really youknow, as a professional producer, I
just have to tell you, Ithink your work is incredibly great. You
know, it's very It's very welldone and very thought out and incredibly impressive.
So it was my honor to behere with you, and hopefully I'll
see in Oklahoma. Legends is apresentation of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame

(01:07:05):
and produced by the matt Talk podcastnetwork. If you want to hear more
from Wrestling's Legends, contribute to theproject today by going to matttalkonline dot com
slash contribute. We hope you've enjoyedthis look into wrestling history, this has
been legends. I'm Jason Bryant,