May 15, 2025 • 33 mins
Are you curious about polyamory and wondering if it's the right fit for you? In this video, we'll explore the world of non-monogamy, discussing the pros and cons, and helping you decide if polyamory is right for you. From the benefits of multiple loving relationships to the potential challenges and conflicts, we'll dive into the complexities of polyamory and provide you with the tools to make an informed decision. Whether you're currently in a monogamous relationship or considering exploring non-monogamy, this video is for anyone looking to understand the ins and outs of polyamory and how it can impact their life.
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(00:00):
We have a whole society built on avoidingdiscomfort.
(00:03):
Yeah.
It's okay to be uncomfortable.
It's okay to have feelings that don't feelgreat sometimes.
Like, it's the human experience.
Again, it's not failure.
It's growth.
It's process.
They're not called growing pleasures.
Right?
Right now, all you know is that you're curious.
That's great.
That doesn't mean you go to a sex partytomorrow or you bring a third person into your
bedroom.
Right?
This means you're curious.
(00:24):
You wanna learn more.
We're in a society where we're given like arelationship prescription is what I call it.
Here's what relationship looks like.
That is it.
And if it's not working for you, you are theproblem.
That's just not true.
It's never been true.
Is your relationship a safe container to havethese uncomfortable conversations?
You're doing life with somebody, some weirdshit's gonna happen along that ride.
(00:46):
You've gotta be able to sit in that discomfortand work through it together and and learn how
to make it something that actually strengthensyour connection in your relationship.
A relationship without trust and freedom isn'tpartnership.
It's ownership.
So you get better at the skill that life isuncomfortable.
There's always gonna be uncomfortable stuff,but you get better at navigating it.
(01:07):
By owning your needs, you gave your partner theinvitation to participate with you or not.
Neither is wrong.
Do you wanna be with a partner who's choosingto be with you or who feels like they have no
other choice?
Hey, everybody.
Quick break at our episode to talk to you aboutour sponsor, My Libido Doc.
(01:32):
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(01:58):
deeper love and passion with yourself and yourpartner.
So if you just go to mysexdoc.com, you willfind that e book there for download.
Now back to our show.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the lounge.
I'm so excited to introduce you to our guesttoday, Allie.
I'm your sexologist and libido expert, doctorDiane.
(02:23):
And the reason I'm so excited to introduce youto Allie today is for so many reasons.
Those of you who've been following my show fora long time have heard some of my own story, my
history with consensual non monogamy, andeventually me landing through my own discovery
and my own self exploration that I lovemonogamy and that I really am truly wired that
(02:44):
way.
Now one of the things that I learned the mostfrom that particular lifestyle is that we get
to make our own rules and that inrelationships, the more we can explore what is
right for us and what is right for ourrelationship and how that looks to bring
passion back into whatever type of lifestyle orwhatever type of arrangement you choose and you
(03:08):
and your partner choose, this is so amazing,right, that we get to actually create what we
want.
So while I talk so much in my work with myclients around novelty and monogamy and how to
bring the passion back, I wanted to bring Alliein because she's so amazing at really going
deep into this topic and really bringing theawareness of both the principles of this for
(03:29):
things like monogamy, but also how to begin toexplore and deepen and open up your
relationship if that is truly what seems likethe right thing for you and your partner.
So welcome to the show, Ali.
I can't wait to dig in.
Thank you so much for having me.
What a wonderful introduction.
Thank you.
(03:50):
My pleasure.
So let's like just lay the ground rules becauseI really haven't talked a ton about like the
other side of monogamy and, you know,consensual non monogamy.
And there's so many different ways that thiscan look.
So and people I think get confused betweenconsensual non monogamy and polyamory and
(04:10):
swinger lifestyle and, you know, all of thesethings can have their little nuances.
So can you just kinda open this up with likethe framework so we're all on the same page or
like, what exactly are we even saying withthis?
Absolutely.
And first and foremost, this is a conversationabout relationship dynamics.
So don't ever hear me as saying, you know,monogamy bad, non monogamy good, or anything
(04:32):
like that.
These are all relationship dynamics that whenwe understand what's actually available to us,
like you said, we can actually make a decision.
We can make a choice about what we want.
So the easiest way to break down what seemslike a lot of terminology that sounds very new
is non monogamy, consensual non monogamy,ethical non monogamy.
These are synonyms.
Right?
E n m, c n m.
(04:53):
And they're the umbrella term for a number ofdifferent relationship dynamics such as
polyamory, swinging, solo polyamory,relationship anarchy.
It's like an umbrella term for all thesedifferent dynamics, and then monogamy.
So monogamy is, you know, one sexual romanticlife partner.
Non monogamy is having multiple sexual romanticintimate partners simultaneously with the key
(05:15):
ingredient, the full knowledge and consent ofeveryone involved.
Right.
So I think that's one of the most importantthings where people get confused around, like,
we're not talking about cheating.
Right?
The ethical word is that it is transparent.
It is with integrity.
It is with honesty and openness and groundrules, and people are playing in a way that is
in agreeance for what they've determined aretheir their agreements in their relationship.
(05:42):
Exactly.
You know, in thinking about
this, right, because I know one thing thatcomes up, like like, non monogamy and the
openness and other partners is something that Ithink a lot of people, no matter what their
relationship choice is, I think a lot of peoplefantasize about this, right, about fantasize
about that novel new partner.
So what are your strategies around if somebody,you know, is hearing this or if they are having
(06:07):
these fantasies?
Like, how do people start determining ifexploring this with their partner is something
that's, you know, open or there is right forthem versus, like, oh, this really needs to be
kept in fantasy.
Like, what do you recommend on that?
Well, I think starting with curiosity overconviction is something I like to say.
Right now, all you know is that you're curious.
(06:28):
That's great.
That doesn't mean you go to a sex partytomorrow or you bring a third person into your
bedroom.
Right?
This means you're curious.
You wanna learn more.
I like to use metaphors.
I'm a whore for metaphors.
You're gonna hear me use a number.
I love it.
If you if you know you're interested in inswimming, you don't just go dive into the
Pacific Ocean.
Right?
You find, you know, a teacher, a local pool.
You get some lessons, some group lessons, someindividual lessons.
(06:50):
You try it out in the pool, then you get into,you know, bigger waters.
It's a process.
Right?
So right now, you're just curious to learnmore.
You don't even know what this thing isnecessarily or what it's gonna mean to you and
what your needs are.
So right now, you just wanna learn.
So if you're looking at bringing this up toyour partner, again, starting with curiosity
over conviction, that initial conversation isreally about gauging where they're at.
(07:15):
You're not asking for anything other than, hey.
Have you even heard of this?
I've heard this term, consensual non monogamyor, you know, this new movie or this show or
whatever.
I read this article.
Have you heard about this?
What do you think about this?
Gauge where they're at with it, and then invitethem on exploring what this even is, learning.
Again, not experiential right away.
(07:35):
But, like, let's read this article together.
Let's go to this movie together.
Let's talk about this.
What even is this?
That is step one before anything else happens.
Yeah.
I know.
I love that.
I know, like, when I was getting started, whenI tried this for the first time, it was, like,
finding every book and article I read of thatthen.
It was, like, ethical slut or ethical slut andsex before dawn and those kind of books.
(07:56):
And, you know, now there's even books likePolysecure and some of the newer books that
have come out that really address differentcomponents of it.
But it was cool.
You know, the cool thing about that was if,like, for me, it did lead to two cents of
trying that type of relationship.
But what's very interesting about it was evenfrom a standpoint of just, like, reading those
(08:17):
books and just, like, talking about it, even ifit wouldn't have moved past then, it still was,
like, really, like, hot.
Like, it still just, like, allow theseconversations with my partner at the time, my
main partner at the time, to to actually, like,unfold.
And even, like, talking about it was kind oflike foreplay.
So do you see that in your in people you coachwith that?
(08:39):
Absolutely.
That's why I I like to say whether you chooseto open up your relationship to include other
people or you just wanna open up moreauthentically to each other, I help you open up
without blowing up.
Because regardless of what happens after, youneed to at least be able to talk about this.
Like you said perfectly, the curiosity.
Right?
Coming from that curiosity, is it gonna stay infantasy, which means it's just in your
(09:02):
imagination?
Maybe it's something you guys play with, youknow, fantasy land versus desire, which is when
you bring a fantasy into reality, intopractice, you know, IRL.
So getting to explore what this really isstarts with you.
What are your needs when it comes to yoursexual or physical needs, your emotional or
romantic needs?
What is your hierarchy of exclusivity on bothof those planes?
(09:23):
And then that helps you understand whichrelationship dynamics really support that.
We're in a society where we're given, like, arelationship prescription is what I call it.
Here's what relationship looks like.
That is it.
And if it's not working for you, you are theproblem.
That's just not true.
It's never been true.
Our species is incredible.
We are, we're ambiamorous.
(09:44):
We are perfectly natural and capable of havingmonogamous and nonmonogamous relationships
throughout our history.
This is not a new conversation.
It is a new modern conversation in a sense.
But really understanding what relationshipdynamics are enables you to actively build and
then choose your relationship.
Again, even if it's monogamous.
(10:05):
Now you're actually choosing it because youknow, like you figured out, this is the
relationship structure that supports me andwhat I need.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
And so in thinking about this, right, so I likethis, you know, curiosity and it's a really
great start for people.
Are there questions from like a self discovery,you know, process?
Are there questions that you recommend people,like, ask themselves and take into, you know,
(10:29):
journaling or meditation or working withsomebody like yourself?
Like, how how does that self exploration beyondthe curiosity go?
Like, where where do you advise there?
Yeah.
So I'm something that's really integral here isunderstanding your big why.
And I actually have a free tool called what thefuck do you want workbook.
It helps you understand your big why.
(10:49):
Why are you even curious about this in thefirst place?
That is so important.
You can go to passporttopleasure.
It's the numeral two.
Passport to pleasure dot com slash big y, theword.
Okay.
And we can share hopefully, we can share thoselinks.
I'd like Yeah.
I find that people like to hear it too becausesometimes they get lost in the show notes.
Absolutely.
Passporttopleasure.com/bigy.
(11:12):
And that is a great little workbook that willhelp you with some fun exercises to really
uncover where this is coming from for you.
Is this sexual?
Is this emotional?
Is it both?
And understanding that big why is really gonnainform your whole journey.
It's always what you're gonna come back to whenyou're making these decisions, when you're
having these conversations with your partner orpartners.
It is that is that starting point.
(11:34):
Right?
And so, like I said, kinda touched on earlierthat looking at your hierarchy of exclusivity
when it comes to your sexual physical needs andyour emotional romantic needs.
We don't all have the same level of ofexclusivity in both of those areas.
We don't all necessarily need the same amountof exclusivity.
So really understanding where you fall, thenlearning about all these different relationship
(11:56):
dynamics helps you figure out where on the, youknow, relationship dynamic chart you fall.
This is all stuff that I walk people through inmy course, e and m one zero one.
Because it's it can seem like a lot becauseit's new.
Right?
That's all it is.
It's once you kinda get into it and you'relearning this new language, it's just like
learning any new language.
It's just new.
That's all.
It seems like a lot.
It's just new.
(12:17):
It's okay.
Beginner's mindset.
Yeah.
And I think a big key that I look for incouples is, you know, how do you handle
mistakes in your relationship?
Is it just a blowout blame game situation, oris it like, hey.
What happened here?
What can we learn from this?
What do we need to change and shift so that itdoesn't happen again?
Is there value here?
(12:37):
Are there boundaries and agreements that weneed to adjust?
Understanding things like jealousy, mistakes,etcetera, as learning opportunities, as points
of actual deeper connection is a huge part ofthis.
And that's actually, honestly, one of thebiggest things that even monogamous couples can
take away from learning about consensualnonmonogamy.
Yeah.
Oh, I couldn't agree more.
It's a it's a really good opportunity to workthrough, like, oh, like, like, in life, in
(13:02):
relationships, it's so easy to find jealousyover anything.
Right?
Over, you know, looking at another personthat's beautiful, over a conversation, over
hanging out with somebody as friends, like, somany different things.
And I think one of the things that I have seenwith the ethical nonmonogamy arrangement is it
does, like, those things that it can be, like,almost in shadow where we're like, okay.
(13:26):
It's like easy to put over the side.
Even though these things are often impactingourselves and our relationship, it does bring
some of it in my experience, some of thosethings up to the surface that says, hey,
there's something here that we actually need tospend time to work on ourselves and to address
and and all of those things.
So I
really love for that.
And, when it comes to, say, pros versus, let'scall them challenges.
(13:50):
Right?
So in an ethical non monogamy scenario, whatare some of the things that you've seen across
the board as being like, hey.
These are really common, you know, pros,benefits that people get out of that
arrangement.
And what are some of the things that you seefrom the other side of like, okay, these are
challenges that come up that, you know, peoplemight struggle and and have more effort in in
(14:13):
working through and figuring out?
Sure.
I think the the key here is reallyunderstanding consensual non monogamy as
exposure therapy, honestly, like relationshipexposure therapy.
It's not really adding anything new that wasn'tthere.
It's just, like you said, bringing it to thesurface.
So you're really gonna get to see who you andyour partner really are and the quality of your
(14:35):
relationship.
Is your relationship a safe container to havethese uncomfortable conversations, which are
still required by monogamous relationships?
Just a quick break to let you know that eightypercent of women do not have orgasms from
vaginal intercourse alone.
So many people are not having the type of sexthat is healing, that brings them closer, that
(14:57):
brings them more connected, that is full of somuch pleasure and passion that it can build
bones, reduce stress, help serotonin, bringhappiness, lower anxiety, improve sleep, and
build a better connection with your partner.
That is what hot and modern monogamy is, ismodern monogamy that brings in all of that
(15:18):
passion, that desire, that closeness, and thathealing, and that's what you can get at the hot
and modern monogamy club.
So if you're interested in that and I can helpyou, please go to modernmonogamyclub.com.
Now back to our show.
You're doing life with somebody, some weirdshit's gonna happen along that ride.
You gotta be able to sit in that discomfort andwork through it together and and learn how to
(15:42):
make it something that actually strengthensyour connection in your relationship.
So something like, again, the the benefits arejust to me, like, endless.
That, you know, increased, safety fromcommunication, using tools using things like
jealousy as a tool rather than trying to avoidit or run away from it, really owning and
understanding your desires, your needs,learning how to ask for and speak for them, and
(16:06):
then boundaries.
There's this big misconception that boundariesare rules.
Right?
That this is how, you know, I separate myselffrom everyone else.
If you cross my boundary, you know, you're, youknow, you're wrong and I'm gonna punish you and
all this stuff.
Boundaries are the edges of our comfort zone.
Boundaries are how I take care of myself andhow I invite you to join me in that.
(16:26):
And if you can't, that's okay, but this is howI'm gonna still take care of myself.
Myself.
Yeah.
Understanding where those boundaries are andnot not misconstruing them for rules.
Boundaries are about me.
Right?
I.
Rules are about you controlling somebody else.
And then agreements are about basicallyboundaries for our relationship.
So the easiest way to break it down isboundaries are me, rules are you, agreements
(16:48):
are we.
So really understanding the difference therehelps you create a relationship that has
freedom.
And that doesn't necessarily mean multiplepartners.
It means two individuals or more, but twoindividuals who are free to explore and be
curious and learn and grow, get uncomfortable,and expand.
That is the making of what I call expansivelove.
(17:11):
Again, whether it includes multiple people ornot or multiple partners or not, this is how
you create the foundation for a relationshipthat is growing and open.
Something I like to say is a relationshipwithout trust and freedom isn't partnership.
It's ownership.
So if you wanna create partnership, you reallyhave to integrate tools like boundaries,
(17:31):
learning how to use jealousy, etcetera.
But as far as what, you know, like, as as yousaid, challenges, it's it's challenging because
it's new.
Absolutely.
You're going to be given the opportunity toreally deal with some uncomfortable stuff, but
it's just like going to the gym.
Right?
The first time you go to the gym, it's reallyhard.
(17:52):
But you know what?
Those weights don't get lighter.
You just are able to lift bigger and biggerweights.
So you get better at the skill that life isuncomfortable.
There's always gonna be uncomfortable stuff,but you get better at navigating it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's any anything that is growthoriented is that way.
Right?
Like, the bigger challenges we face in anythingin life.
(18:12):
It's like, woah.
I survived that.
And then it allows us to have a bigger andbroader threshold for tolerance around what we,
you know, what we can actually say accomplishand overcome and navigate and emotionally stay
grounded during all of that.
So Yeah.
I think the boundary conversation is reallyimportant.
(18:34):
So let's go back to that.
So in this conversation around, okay,boundaries are the I.
Right?
Boundaries are like, okay.
They're for me.
How do people begin to to unpack that and anddeal with sometimes, okay.
Well, like you said, you're so well saidaround, like, boundaries might not always be
respected.
I still have then an internal way of protectingmy and taking care of myself during that do
(19:00):
that.
So I think that's a pretty, like, big concept,and we're saying that.
That can sound, like, pretty esoteric.
So do you have any, like, examples of how thatcould really look around?
Like, okay.
Let's say, like like, a common thing, you know,in, like like, going through that world, it was
very interesting how every relationship hadtheir agreements.
Right?
And so it's navigating a lot of, like, okay.
(19:23):
Now there's a new relationship with newagreements, a new relationship new agreements,
and there was a lot of navigating that.
And it was common that somebody might have, youknow, a a boundary or, I guess, like, the if
the partner had, say, a rule, and it would besomething like, well, their rule and their
agreement with their other partner was that,hey, there'd be no spending the night.
(19:44):
Or I met somebody that the rule that he had wasfive hours at a time.
That was the max any sort of date could everlast.
Right?
And so where do you, you know, where do peoplebegin?
And it's like, okay.
Well, if my boundary let's say somebody islike, my boundary is this is what it is and
they wanna engage with somebody and there'sthis almost this conflict, how do we begin to
(20:08):
take care of ourselves if somebody is, say, notrespecting our boundary?
I'm gonna use an example that's probably gonnabe very, feel might feel a bit dramatic for
some people.
So I'm just gonna preface with that, but it'sthe most clear way I can think of to describe
it.
So our relationships, we have a very, we have avery closed version of relationship in our
(20:36):
society.
And, again, it's kind of what I mean by, youknow, partnership versus ownership.
We're making choices.
Relationships are in agreement.
Right?
There's there's no real shackles.
There's not we are choosing to be with eachother regardless of, you know, whatever forms
have been filed and labels have been attached.
You are actively choosing to be with somebodyin whatever dynamic you're in, what however
(20:57):
informed or uninformed that might be.
So the difference between boundary and rule isI get to decide what you know, am I am I
monogamous?
Am I nonmonogamous?
Do I want one partner or multiple partners?
I don't get to tell my partner how manypartners they get to have.
I don't get to make them non monogamous if theyonly want to be with me anymore than they get
(21:20):
to make me monogamous if I am non monogamous.
But we get to decide what kind of partners wewant to be with.
So I don't get to go, you can only see me.
I get to go, I wanna be in a relationship withI feel safe in a relationship.
I feel, you know, whatever adjectives in arelationship with a partner who is monogamous.
(21:41):
So that may equal not being in a relationshipwith that person.
Monopoly relationships are a % possible.
You can have a monogamous partner and apolyamorous partner because, again, you're
agreeing to be with that person as who theyare.
You're not trying to make them or tell them tobe somebody else.
You're taking responsibility for the kind ofpartner or partners that you wanna be with.
(22:01):
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
I mean, it's a it's a perfect example.
It's actually, like, was applied even to my ownlife around, like, that was a huge part of why,
like, the last poly relationship ended is Ithere's many reasons, but one of them was I am
like, came to a conclusion after some yearsthat that was not the lifestyle.
And he came to the conclusion after some yearsthat it was definitely the lifestyle.
(22:23):
And we could have stayed in that relationship,but I also relationship, but I also came to the
conclusion for myself, like you're saying, oflike, oh, I actually want to be with somebody
and it's my boundary that I wanna be withsomebody that actually is interested in the
same type of relationship structure for a lotof different reasons.
And so then my choice was, okay.
Well, this is not our values around this arenot the same, it's important enough to me that,
(22:44):
you know, why we have to go our separate ways.
So that to me is, you know, an example of whatyou're saying around, like, yeah, there's we
gotta take.
We are responsible for our ownresponsibilities, and it might mean, that in
that scenario, like, the relationship ended,but there was still that choice.
I still had my own Exactly.
Own power.
Right?
By owning your needs, you gave your partnerinvitation to participate with you or not.
(23:10):
Neither is wrong.
Right?
It's again, the the this framing of, like, theend of a relationship is somehow a failure.
Well, how is it a failure if by ending thatversion of relationship, both people are able
to create something that's more supportive towhat they want and need in their lives.
That sounds like success to me, and you bothlearned that through being with each other?
(23:31):
Chef's kiss.
That is a fantastic Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
It was like a lot of self exploration.
And here's where I think it gets tricky.
So here's where I think people get confusedbetween, like, ultimatums and boundaries.
Right?
So I think it would be good to bring that upbecause it's so easy in this example, right, to
say, okay.
(23:51):
Well, here's my boundary.
And if you can't meet me here, I have to gotake care of myself, which might mean that this
relationship is over.
That can also, like, be construed.
You could look at it from a certain frame andbe like, well, that's an ultimatum, and there's
such a negative con con text around ultimatums,which I think is like I think there's some ways
(24:12):
that ultimatums or boundaries are done that isgoes in more to this, like, controlling or
forcing type of thing.
Right?
Mhmm.
And that's, like, that's where I think they geta bad reputation.
But where is that fine line between betweenexactly this, like, okay.
This is my boundary versus, hey.
I'm doing this as a way to manipulate andcontrol.
(24:34):
Well, it's it's there's intention involved inthat for sure.
And it's, again, it's is it about you and yourexperience, or is it about making somebody else
do something?
Yeah.
Do you wanna be with a partner who's choosingto be with you or who feels like they have no
other choice?
Yeah.
I personally would much rather know that mypartners are actively choosing to be with me
(24:54):
when they're with me, that they know that ourrelationship is an open space for them to
explore and question and come to me withcuriosities, concerns, etcetera.
It is an act of choice every day whether weacknowledge it or not to be in relationship.
So how you frame it is key, and that's, youknow, what you what intention are you bringing
to this?
Is it you better do this and you're weaponizingyour relationship?
(25:18):
You're weaponizing connection with you?
Or are you saying, I I am here.
I'm available, but this is what I'm availablefor.
Are you able to meet me in, you know, the fieldof availability, or are you in a different
area?
Great.
You're in a different area.
That doesn't I'm I'm obviously sounding very,like, cool and chill and everything.
These there's emotions involved.
It it can be challenging, and there's tears,and, like, that's okay.
(25:42):
I think we have, there's a lot of things atplay here.
We have a whole society built on avoidingdiscomfort.
Yeah.
It's okay to be uncomfortable.
It's okay to have feelings that don't feelgreat sometimes.
Like, it's the human experience.
Again, it's not failure.
It's growth.
It's process.
They're not called growing pleasures.
Right?
Like, sometimes there's pain involved, and, youknow, you you move forward from that, and
(26:04):
ideally you learn.
Yeah.
I think we also have a society that just we'venot been trained very well in how to embrace
and deal with the concept of paradox.
So I think it's really hard for people in thesesituations that we're talking about around,
like, oh, the paradox of, like, I can be joyousand happy about taking care of myself and at
the same time devastated that it might mean, inthis example, losing a partner.
(26:27):
Right?
And sometimes it's very difficult to, you know,to to actually, you know, rectify that we can
feel these two sometimes very polar emotions atthe same time.
And we have a word for it in society.
We have, like, bittersweet.
Right?
Which is kind of what that word is.
But we I think we're just, like, not reallytaught from the standpoint of, like, the
challenge and the emotion behind that whatactually happens.
(26:50):
And what I'm hearing you say there is, okay,from the standpoint of boundaries versus
ultimatums, it really comes down to, like, theword choice and the the framing and our
intention behind it.
And we can come at that that whole conversationfrom a place of, like, you know, this is just
me showing up for myself and in love andwanting you to choose the best life for you and
(27:14):
me to choose the best life for me.
And we're just seeing if that matches, andthat's one conversation versus, hey.
I'm going to do this and I'm gonna use this andI'm gonna use language of, like, if you don't
do this, I will dot dot dot dot dot.
Mhmm.
And that languaging could have a lot more, likelike, control and manipulation behind it.
Correct?
Is it a power play, or is it an invitation
(27:35):
Right.
At the end of the day?
Yeah.
It's a very good distinction.
Well, I know we're we're starting to wrap up ontime here.
We're definitely gonna let everybody know howto get ahold of you, and we already, you know,
talked about your, offering that we want we'llput in the show notes.
But before we wrap up and actually say allthat, is there anything in this discussion that
you feel like we have to say that we have notsaid in in the conversation of, like, ethical
(27:58):
non monogamy of, you know, starting the theconversation, of starting to begin to maybe
explore this?
Any like, this is essential.
Yeah.
I I think we we kinda started with it, but Ijust wanna reiterate.
Learning about this is just learning aboutrelationship dynamics.
We have a society that again gives us thisprescription, so it's very easy to be kinda
(28:21):
lazy about relationship.
A lot of people are participating in what Icall lazy monogamy.
Oh, yeah.
We're in relationship now.
We kinda went through this whole journey.
I assumed a bunch of stuff.
Like, we're on a date.
It probably means the same thing to you.
We live together.
It probably means the same thing to you.
Lot of assumptions, not a lot of conversation.
Relationship is an actual skill set.
You see people have no problem going to, youknow, professional communication courses and
(28:43):
how to be a better leader and all that stuff.
This is all relationship.
Why is there so much shame and avoidance arounddeveloping those same skills for our most
important relationships?
So this is just, a conversation about learningrelationship skills, learning about all the
relationship dynamics available so you canactually make an active choice.
(29:03):
Doesn't mean you have to open up yourrelationship tomorrow.
Doesn't mean you're gonna open up yourrelationship ever.
It means you're committed to choosing whateverrelationship you're in.
Yeah.
Amazing.
And and that's a really good lead in too,everybody.
We're gonna film part two and do part two in asecond.
Part two, you'll be able to access in thelibido club, so you'll find that in the show
notes as well.
And in part two, what we're doing is we aretalking about how to take all of these concepts
(29:28):
and really apply them more to the couple thathas, you know, decided that they want to be in
a monogamous relationship, and that's best forthem.
But some of these concepts we're talking aboutreally do apply to monogamy.
So if you're listening to this and you're like,oh, this is for me.
I you know, but as far as the concepts, but youwanna stay in monogamous relationships,
(29:49):
definitely tune in for part two and how to findthat will be below.
And then, of course, we wanna tell people howto, you know, work with you and all of that
because also as somebody who's, like, gonethrough all of that.
And and I like I said, I read, like, every bookand every article and everything that I could
find back then.
It was really helpful.
And having gone through that whole process,having somebody that like yourself that has
(30:12):
walked it, that has steps, that has processes,I just think is so important because I really
did see in that in those types of scenarioswith people I met.
I saw people who were, like, not navigatingconversations well and was leading to a lot of
fighting.
And I've seen relationships destroyed over itthat could have probably been saved had they
just figured out how to actually communicateeffectively and with love and and do some of
(30:38):
the steps.
So I think, you know, having that support isessential if that is if people are interested
in more exploring ethical non monogamy.
So how do people get a hold of you to learn
and get Well, yeah.
And I just wanna reiterate what you said too.
The right support is so key because when youhave a society again that has one view of what
relationship looks like, very well meaningfriends and family, when you're meeting those
(31:01):
inevitable struggles, it's so common for themto go, you know what?
This wasn't coming up until you tried openingup, so maybe you guys should close down.
Maybe this isn't for you.
When really the guidance of somebody who canreally help you dig in and see what the root
really is to help you on this journey is isjust integral.
And so many, unfortunately, so manyrelationship therapists, counselors, coaches,
(31:23):
again, come from a very mononormative viewpointbecause that's most of what's out there.
So having a specialist for this explicit, youknow, experiment, if you will, is is so key.
So so so key.
So how do you find me?
Passport to pleasure.com.
Again, that's the number two passport topleasure.com.
(31:44):
I have a very active Substack where I sharetons of free content all about all these
different skills, everything you can learn fromconsensual non monogamy to support your
relationship journey, everything from jealousyto communication to compersion, the boundaries,
tons of stuff on there.
I do videos.
I do written articles.
I share some of my own personal story as well.
And then I also have a monthly relationshipcolumn, advice column called ask Ali, and it's
(32:08):
an inclusive relationship advice column becauseI do work with monogamous couples as well.
There's been a few couples that have come to methinking that, you know, I think we wanna open
up.
Well, let's figure out what that looks like.
And, actually, they just wanted to be able toopen up to each other and talk about these
fantasies and play with them and explore them.
And then they decided, you know what?
Actually, we're gonna remain monogamous, butnow we have a deeper, more expansive level of
(32:29):
communication and understanding about ourselvesand each other.
Amazing.
And we'll have all of those links in the shownotes, you guys.
And thank you again, Ali.
Thank you for being here and sharing your yourwisdom and your knowledge and just for helping
this community so much.
Really appreciate you.
Thank you.
And everybody, look in the show notes for allof this, and we will see you in, you know, in
(32:51):
the future for another episode on the lounge.
Take care.
Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge.
Please don't keep me a secret.
Please share this with your friends.
You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, aswell as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.
We have a whole society built on avoidingdiscomfort.
(00:03):
Yeah.
It's okay to be uncomfortable.
It's okay to have feelings that don't feelgreat sometimes.
Like, it's the human experience.
Again, it's not failure.
It's growth.
It's process.
They're not called growing pleasures.
Right?
Right now, all you know is that you're curious.
That's great.
That doesn't mean you go to a sex partytomorrow or you bring a third person into your
bedroom.
Right?
This means you're curious.
(00:24):
You wanna learn more.
We're in a society where we're given like arelationship prescription is what I call it.
Here's what relationship looks like.
That is it.
And if it's not working for you, you are theproblem.
That's just not true.
It's never been true.
Is your relationship a safe container to havethese uncomfortable conversations?
You're doing life with somebody, some weirdshit's gonna happen along that ride.
(00:46):
You've gotta be able to sit in that discomfortand work through it together and and learn how
to make it something that actually strengthensyour connection in your relationship.
A relationship without trust and freedom isn'tpartnership.
It's ownership.
So you get better at the skill that life isuncomfortable.
There's always gonna be uncomfortable stuff,but you get better at navigating it.
(01:07):
By owning your needs, you gave your partner theinvitation to participate with you or not.
Neither is wrong.
Do you wanna be with a partner who's choosingto be with you or who feels like they have no
other choice?
Hey, everybody.
Quick break at our episode to talk to you aboutour sponsor, My Libido Doc.
(01:32):
One of the things that we truly believe is thatgreat sex is available to everyone, but we just
have to learn how.
So head over to our site to get your free copyof our e book, Five Steps to Mind Blowing
Orgasms and Romance.
Get the quick and easy tips to turn your sexlife around, rev up your engines, and fall in
(01:58):
deeper love and passion with yourself and yourpartner.
So if you just go to mysexdoc.com, you willfind that e book there for download.
Now back to our show.
Hey, everybody.
Welcome to the lounge.
I'm so excited to introduce you to our guesttoday, Allie.
I'm your sexologist and libido expert, doctorDiane.
(02:23):
And the reason I'm so excited to introduce youto Allie today is for so many reasons.
Those of you who've been following my show fora long time have heard some of my own story, my
history with consensual non monogamy, andeventually me landing through my own discovery
and my own self exploration that I lovemonogamy and that I really am truly wired that
(02:44):
way.
Now one of the things that I learned the mostfrom that particular lifestyle is that we get
to make our own rules and that inrelationships, the more we can explore what is
right for us and what is right for ourrelationship and how that looks to bring
passion back into whatever type of lifestyle orwhatever type of arrangement you choose and you
(03:08):
and your partner choose, this is so amazing,right, that we get to actually create what we
want.
So while I talk so much in my work with myclients around novelty and monogamy and how to
bring the passion back, I wanted to bring Alliein because she's so amazing at really going
deep into this topic and really bringing theawareness of both the principles of this for
(03:29):
things like monogamy, but also how to begin toexplore and deepen and open up your
relationship if that is truly what seems likethe right thing for you and your partner.
So welcome to the show, Ali.
I can't wait to dig in.
Thank you so much for having me.
What a wonderful introduction.
Thank you.
(03:50):
My pleasure.
So let's like just lay the ground rules becauseI really haven't talked a ton about like the
other side of monogamy and, you know,consensual non monogamy.
And there's so many different ways that thiscan look.
So and people I think get confused betweenconsensual non monogamy and polyamory and
(04:10):
swinger lifestyle and, you know, all of thesethings can have their little nuances.
So can you just kinda open this up with likethe framework so we're all on the same page or
like, what exactly are we even saying withthis?
Absolutely.
And first and foremost, this is a conversationabout relationship dynamics.
So don't ever hear me as saying, you know,monogamy bad, non monogamy good, or anything
(04:32):
like that.
These are all relationship dynamics that whenwe understand what's actually available to us,
like you said, we can actually make a decision.
We can make a choice about what we want.
So the easiest way to break down what seemslike a lot of terminology that sounds very new
is non monogamy, consensual non monogamy,ethical non monogamy.
These are synonyms.
Right?
E n m, c n m.
(04:53):
And they're the umbrella term for a number ofdifferent relationship dynamics such as
polyamory, swinging, solo polyamory,relationship anarchy.
It's like an umbrella term for all thesedifferent dynamics, and then monogamy.
So monogamy is, you know, one sexual romanticlife partner.
Non monogamy is having multiple sexual romanticintimate partners simultaneously with the key
(05:15):
ingredient, the full knowledge and consent ofeveryone involved.
Right.
So I think that's one of the most importantthings where people get confused around, like,
we're not talking about cheating.
Right?
The ethical word is that it is transparent.
It is with integrity.
It is with honesty and openness and groundrules, and people are playing in a way that is
in agreeance for what they've determined aretheir their agreements in their relationship.
(05:42):
Exactly.
You know, in thinking about
this, right, because I know one thing thatcomes up, like like, non monogamy and the
openness and other partners is something that Ithink a lot of people, no matter what their
relationship choice is, I think a lot of peoplefantasize about this, right, about fantasize
about that novel new partner.
So what are your strategies around if somebody,you know, is hearing this or if they are having
(06:07):
these fantasies?
Like, how do people start determining ifexploring this with their partner is something
that's, you know, open or there is right forthem versus, like, oh, this really needs to be
kept in fantasy.
Like, what do you recommend on that?
Well, I think starting with curiosity overconviction is something I like to say.
Right now, all you know is that you're curious.
(06:28):
That's great.
That doesn't mean you go to a sex partytomorrow or you bring a third person into your
bedroom.
Right?
This means you're curious.
You wanna learn more.
I like to use metaphors.
I'm a whore for metaphors.
You're gonna hear me use a number.
I love it.
If you if you know you're interested in inswimming, you don't just go dive into the
Pacific Ocean.
Right?
You find, you know, a teacher, a local pool.
You get some lessons, some group lessons, someindividual lessons.
(06:50):
You try it out in the pool, then you get into,you know, bigger waters.
It's a process.
Right?
So right now, you're just curious to learnmore.
You don't even know what this thing isnecessarily or what it's gonna mean to you and
what your needs are.
So right now, you just wanna learn.
So if you're looking at bringing this up toyour partner, again, starting with curiosity
over conviction, that initial conversation isreally about gauging where they're at.
(07:15):
You're not asking for anything other than, hey.
Have you even heard of this?
I've heard this term, consensual non monogamyor, you know, this new movie or this show or
whatever.
I read this article.
Have you heard about this?
What do you think about this?
Gauge where they're at with it, and then invitethem on exploring what this even is, learning.
Again, not experiential right away.
(07:35):
But, like, let's read this article together.
Let's go to this movie together.
Let's talk about this.
What even is this?
That is step one before anything else happens.
Yeah.
I know.
I love that.
I know, like, when I was getting started, whenI tried this for the first time, it was, like,
finding every book and article I read of thatthen.
It was, like, ethical slut or ethical slut andsex before dawn and those kind of books.
(07:56):
And, you know, now there's even books likePolysecure and some of the newer books that
have come out that really address differentcomponents of it.
But it was cool.
You know, the cool thing about that was if,like, for me, it did lead to two cents of
trying that type of relationship.
But what's very interesting about it was evenfrom a standpoint of just, like, reading those
(08:17):
books and just, like, talking about it, even ifit wouldn't have moved past then, it still was,
like, really, like, hot.
Like, it still just, like, allow theseconversations with my partner at the time, my
main partner at the time, to to actually, like,unfold.
And even, like, talking about it was kind oflike foreplay.
So do you see that in your in people you coachwith that?
(08:39):
Absolutely.
That's why I I like to say whether you chooseto open up your relationship to include other
people or you just wanna open up moreauthentically to each other, I help you open up
without blowing up.
Because regardless of what happens after, youneed to at least be able to talk about this.
Like you said perfectly, the curiosity.
Right?
Coming from that curiosity, is it gonna stay infantasy, which means it's just in your
(09:02):
imagination?
Maybe it's something you guys play with, youknow, fantasy land versus desire, which is when
you bring a fantasy into reality, intopractice, you know, IRL.
So getting to explore what this really isstarts with you.
What are your needs when it comes to yoursexual or physical needs, your emotional or
romantic needs?
What is your hierarchy of exclusivity on bothof those planes?
(09:23):
And then that helps you understand whichrelationship dynamics really support that.
We're in a society where we're given, like, arelationship prescription is what I call it.
Here's what relationship looks like.
That is it.
And if it's not working for you, you are theproblem.
That's just not true.
It's never been true.
Our species is incredible.
We are, we're ambiamorous.
(09:44):
We are perfectly natural and capable of havingmonogamous and nonmonogamous relationships
throughout our history.
This is not a new conversation.
It is a new modern conversation in a sense.
But really understanding what relationshipdynamics are enables you to actively build and
then choose your relationship.
Again, even if it's monogamous.
(10:05):
Now you're actually choosing it because youknow, like you figured out, this is the
relationship structure that supports me andwhat I need.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that.
And so in thinking about this, right, so I likethis, you know, curiosity and it's a really
great start for people.
Are there questions from like a self discovery,you know, process?
Are there questions that you recommend people,like, ask themselves and take into, you know,
(10:29):
journaling or meditation or working withsomebody like yourself?
Like, how how does that self exploration beyondthe curiosity go?
Like, where where do you advise there?
Yeah.
So I'm something that's really integral here isunderstanding your big why.
And I actually have a free tool called what thefuck do you want workbook.
It helps you understand your big why.
(10:49):
Why are you even curious about this in thefirst place?
That is so important.
You can go to passporttopleasure.
It's the numeral two.
Passport to pleasure dot com slash big y, theword.
Okay.
And we can share hopefully, we can share thoselinks.
I'd like Yeah.
I find that people like to hear it too becausesometimes they get lost in the show notes.
Absolutely.
Passporttopleasure.com/bigy.
(11:12):
And that is a great little workbook that willhelp you with some fun exercises to really
uncover where this is coming from for you.
Is this sexual?
Is this emotional?
Is it both?
And understanding that big why is really gonnainform your whole journey.
It's always what you're gonna come back to whenyou're making these decisions, when you're
having these conversations with your partner orpartners.
It is that is that starting point.
(11:34):
Right?
And so, like I said, kinda touched on earlierthat looking at your hierarchy of exclusivity
when it comes to your sexual physical needs andyour emotional romantic needs.
We don't all have the same level of ofexclusivity in both of those areas.
We don't all necessarily need the same amountof exclusivity.
So really understanding where you fall, thenlearning about all these different relationship
(11:56):
dynamics helps you figure out where on the, youknow, relationship dynamic chart you fall.
This is all stuff that I walk people through inmy course, e and m one zero one.
Because it's it can seem like a lot becauseit's new.
Right?
That's all it is.
It's once you kinda get into it and you'relearning this new language, it's just like
learning any new language.
It's just new.
That's all.
It seems like a lot.
It's just new.
(12:17):
It's okay.
Beginner's mindset.
Yeah.
And I think a big key that I look for incouples is, you know, how do you handle
mistakes in your relationship?
Is it just a blowout blame game situation, oris it like, hey.
What happened here?
What can we learn from this?
What do we need to change and shift so that itdoesn't happen again?
Is there value here?
(12:37):
Are there boundaries and agreements that weneed to adjust?
Understanding things like jealousy, mistakes,etcetera, as learning opportunities, as points
of actual deeper connection is a huge part ofthis.
And that's actually, honestly, one of thebiggest things that even monogamous couples can
take away from learning about consensualnonmonogamy.
Yeah.
Oh, I couldn't agree more.
It's a it's a really good opportunity to workthrough, like, oh, like, like, in life, in
(13:02):
relationships, it's so easy to find jealousyover anything.
Right?
Over, you know, looking at another personthat's beautiful, over a conversation, over
hanging out with somebody as friends, like, somany different things.
And I think one of the things that I have seenwith the ethical nonmonogamy arrangement is it
does, like, those things that it can be, like,almost in shadow where we're like, okay.
(13:26):
It's like easy to put over the side.
Even though these things are often impactingourselves and our relationship, it does bring
some of it in my experience, some of thosethings up to the surface that says, hey,
there's something here that we actually need tospend time to work on ourselves and to address
and and all of those things.
So I
really love for that.
And, when it comes to, say, pros versus, let'scall them challenges.
(13:50):
Right?
So in an ethical non monogamy scenario, whatare some of the things that you've seen across
the board as being like, hey.
These are really common, you know, pros,benefits that people get out of that
arrangement.
And what are some of the things that you seefrom the other side of like, okay, these are
challenges that come up that, you know, peoplemight struggle and and have more effort in in
(14:13):
working through and figuring out?
Sure.
I think the the key here is reallyunderstanding consensual non monogamy as
exposure therapy, honestly, like relationshipexposure therapy.
It's not really adding anything new that wasn'tthere.
It's just, like you said, bringing it to thesurface.
So you're really gonna get to see who you andyour partner really are and the quality of your
(14:35):
relationship.
Is your relationship a safe container to havethese uncomfortable conversations, which are
still required by monogamous relationships?
Just a quick break to let you know that eightypercent of women do not have orgasms from
vaginal intercourse alone.
So many people are not having the type of sexthat is healing, that brings them closer, that
(14:57):
brings them more connected, that is full of somuch pleasure and passion that it can build
bones, reduce stress, help serotonin, bringhappiness, lower anxiety, improve sleep, and
build a better connection with your partner.
That is what hot and modern monogamy is, ismodern monogamy that brings in all of that
(15:18):
passion, that desire, that closeness, and thathealing, and that's what you can get at the hot
and modern monogamy club.
So if you're interested in that and I can helpyou, please go to modernmonogamyclub.com.
Now back to our show.
You're doing life with somebody, some weirdshit's gonna happen along that ride.
You gotta be able to sit in that discomfort andwork through it together and and learn how to
(15:42):
make it something that actually strengthensyour connection in your relationship.
So something like, again, the the benefits arejust to me, like, endless.
That, you know, increased, safety fromcommunication, using tools using things like
jealousy as a tool rather than trying to avoidit or run away from it, really owning and
understanding your desires, your needs,learning how to ask for and speak for them, and
(16:06):
then boundaries.
There's this big misconception that boundariesare rules.
Right?
That this is how, you know, I separate myselffrom everyone else.
If you cross my boundary, you know, you're, youknow, you're wrong and I'm gonna punish you and
all this stuff.
Boundaries are the edges of our comfort zone.
Boundaries are how I take care of myself andhow I invite you to join me in that.
(16:26):
And if you can't, that's okay, but this is howI'm gonna still take care of myself.
Myself.
Yeah.
Understanding where those boundaries are andnot not misconstruing them for rules.
Boundaries are about me.
Right?
I.
Rules are about you controlling somebody else.
And then agreements are about basicallyboundaries for our relationship.
So the easiest way to break it down isboundaries are me, rules are you, agreements
(16:48):
are we.
So really understanding the difference therehelps you create a relationship that has
freedom.
And that doesn't necessarily mean multiplepartners.
It means two individuals or more, but twoindividuals who are free to explore and be
curious and learn and grow, get uncomfortable,and expand.
That is the making of what I call expansivelove.
(17:11):
Again, whether it includes multiple people ornot or multiple partners or not, this is how
you create the foundation for a relationshipthat is growing and open.
Something I like to say is a relationshipwithout trust and freedom isn't partnership.
It's ownership.
So if you wanna create partnership, you reallyhave to integrate tools like boundaries,
(17:31):
learning how to use jealousy, etcetera.
But as far as what, you know, like, as as yousaid, challenges, it's it's challenging because
it's new.
Absolutely.
You're going to be given the opportunity toreally deal with some uncomfortable stuff, but
it's just like going to the gym.
Right?
The first time you go to the gym, it's reallyhard.
(17:52):
But you know what?
Those weights don't get lighter.
You just are able to lift bigger and biggerweights.
So you get better at the skill that life isuncomfortable.
There's always gonna be uncomfortable stuff,but you get better at navigating it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's any anything that is growthoriented is that way.
Right?
Like, the bigger challenges we face in anythingin life.
(18:12):
It's like, woah.
I survived that.
And then it allows us to have a bigger andbroader threshold for tolerance around what we,
you know, what we can actually say accomplishand overcome and navigate and emotionally stay
grounded during all of that.
So Yeah.
I think the boundary conversation is reallyimportant.
(18:34):
So let's go back to that.
So in this conversation around, okay,boundaries are the I.
Right?
Boundaries are like, okay.
They're for me.
How do people begin to to unpack that and anddeal with sometimes, okay.
Well, like you said, you're so well saidaround, like, boundaries might not always be
respected.
I still have then an internal way of protectingmy and taking care of myself during that do
(19:00):
that.
So I think that's a pretty, like, big concept,and we're saying that.
That can sound, like, pretty esoteric.
So do you have any, like, examples of how thatcould really look around?
Like, okay.
Let's say, like like, a common thing, you know,in, like like, going through that world, it was
very interesting how every relationship hadtheir agreements.
Right?
And so it's navigating a lot of, like, okay.
(19:23):
Now there's a new relationship with newagreements, a new relationship new agreements,
and there was a lot of navigating that.
And it was common that somebody might have, youknow, a a boundary or, I guess, like, the if
the partner had, say, a rule, and it would besomething like, well, their rule and their
agreement with their other partner was that,hey, there'd be no spending the night.
(19:44):
Or I met somebody that the rule that he had wasfive hours at a time.
That was the max any sort of date could everlast.
Right?
And so where do you, you know, where do peoplebegin?
And it's like, okay.
Well, if my boundary let's say somebody islike, my boundary is this is what it is and
they wanna engage with somebody and there'sthis almost this conflict, how do we begin to
(20:08):
take care of ourselves if somebody is, say, notrespecting our boundary?
I'm gonna use an example that's probably gonnabe very, feel might feel a bit dramatic for
some people.
So I'm just gonna preface with that, but it'sthe most clear way I can think of to describe
it.
So our relationships, we have a very, we have avery closed version of relationship in our
(20:36):
society.
And, again, it's kind of what I mean by, youknow, partnership versus ownership.
We're making choices.
Relationships are in agreement.
Right?
There's there's no real shackles.
There's not we are choosing to be with eachother regardless of, you know, whatever forms
have been filed and labels have been attached.
You are actively choosing to be with somebodyin whatever dynamic you're in, what however
(20:57):
informed or uninformed that might be.
So the difference between boundary and rule isI get to decide what you know, am I am I
monogamous?
Am I nonmonogamous?
Do I want one partner or multiple partners?
I don't get to tell my partner how manypartners they get to have.
I don't get to make them non monogamous if theyonly want to be with me anymore than they get
(21:20):
to make me monogamous if I am non monogamous.
But we get to decide what kind of partners wewant to be with.
So I don't get to go, you can only see me.
I get to go, I wanna be in a relationship withI feel safe in a relationship.
I feel, you know, whatever adjectives in arelationship with a partner who is monogamous.
(21:41):
So that may equal not being in a relationshipwith that person.
Monopoly relationships are a % possible.
You can have a monogamous partner and apolyamorous partner because, again, you're
agreeing to be with that person as who theyare.
You're not trying to make them or tell them tobe somebody else.
You're taking responsibility for the kind ofpartner or partners that you wanna be with.
(22:01):
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
I mean, it's a it's a perfect example.
It's actually, like, was applied even to my ownlife around, like, that was a huge part of why,
like, the last poly relationship ended is Ithere's many reasons, but one of them was I am
like, came to a conclusion after some yearsthat that was not the lifestyle.
And he came to the conclusion after some yearsthat it was definitely the lifestyle.
(22:23):
And we could have stayed in that relationship,but I also relationship, but I also came to the
conclusion for myself, like you're saying, oflike, oh, I actually want to be with somebody
and it's my boundary that I wanna be withsomebody that actually is interested in the
same type of relationship structure for a lotof different reasons.
And so then my choice was, okay.
Well, this is not our values around this arenot the same, it's important enough to me that,
(22:44):
you know, why we have to go our separate ways.
So that to me is, you know, an example of whatyou're saying around, like, yeah, there's we
gotta take.
We are responsible for our ownresponsibilities, and it might mean, that in
that scenario, like, the relationship ended,but there was still that choice.
I still had my own Exactly.
Own power.
Right?
By owning your needs, you gave your partnerinvitation to participate with you or not.
(23:10):
Neither is wrong.
Right?
It's again, the the this framing of, like, theend of a relationship is somehow a failure.
Well, how is it a failure if by ending thatversion of relationship, both people are able
to create something that's more supportive towhat they want and need in their lives.
That sounds like success to me, and you bothlearned that through being with each other?
(23:31):
Chef's kiss.
That is a fantastic Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
It was like a lot of self exploration.
And here's where I think it gets tricky.
So here's where I think people get confusedbetween, like, ultimatums and boundaries.
Right?
So I think it would be good to bring that upbecause it's so easy in this example, right, to
say, okay.
(23:51):
Well, here's my boundary.
And if you can't meet me here, I have to gotake care of myself, which might mean that this
relationship is over.
That can also, like, be construed.
You could look at it from a certain frame andbe like, well, that's an ultimatum, and there's
such a negative con con text around ultimatums,which I think is like I think there's some ways
(24:12):
that ultimatums or boundaries are done that isgoes in more to this, like, controlling or
forcing type of thing.
Right?
Mhmm.
And that's, like, that's where I think they geta bad reputation.
But where is that fine line between betweenexactly this, like, okay.
This is my boundary versus, hey.
I'm doing this as a way to manipulate andcontrol.
(24:34):
Well, it's it's there's intention involved inthat for sure.
And it's, again, it's is it about you and yourexperience, or is it about making somebody else
do something?
Yeah.
Do you wanna be with a partner who's choosingto be with you or who feels like they have no
other choice?
Yeah.
I personally would much rather know that mypartners are actively choosing to be with me
(24:54):
when they're with me, that they know that ourrelationship is an open space for them to
explore and question and come to me withcuriosities, concerns, etcetera.
It is an act of choice every day whether weacknowledge it or not to be in relationship.
So how you frame it is key, and that's, youknow, what you what intention are you bringing
to this?
Is it you better do this and you're weaponizingyour relationship?
(25:18):
You're weaponizing connection with you?
Or are you saying, I I am here.
I'm available, but this is what I'm availablefor.
Are you able to meet me in, you know, the fieldof availability, or are you in a different
area?
Great.
You're in a different area.
That doesn't I'm I'm obviously sounding very,like, cool and chill and everything.
These there's emotions involved.
It it can be challenging, and there's tears,and, like, that's okay.
(25:42):
I think we have, there's a lot of things atplay here.
We have a whole society built on avoidingdiscomfort.
Yeah.
It's okay to be uncomfortable.
It's okay to have feelings that don't feelgreat sometimes.
Like, it's the human experience.
Again, it's not failure.
It's growth.
It's process.
They're not called growing pleasures.
Right?
Like, sometimes there's pain involved, and, youknow, you you move forward from that, and
(26:04):
ideally you learn.
Yeah.
I think we also have a society that just we'venot been trained very well in how to embrace
and deal with the concept of paradox.
So I think it's really hard for people in thesesituations that we're talking about around,
like, oh, the paradox of, like, I can be joyousand happy about taking care of myself and at
the same time devastated that it might mean, inthis example, losing a partner.
(26:27):
Right?
And sometimes it's very difficult to, you know,to to actually, you know, rectify that we can
feel these two sometimes very polar emotions atthe same time.
And we have a word for it in society.
We have, like, bittersweet.
Right?
Which is kind of what that word is.
But we I think we're just, like, not reallytaught from the standpoint of, like, the
challenge and the emotion behind that whatactually happens.
(26:50):
And what I'm hearing you say there is, okay,from the standpoint of boundaries versus
ultimatums, it really comes down to, like, theword choice and the the framing and our
intention behind it.
And we can come at that that whole conversationfrom a place of, like, you know, this is just
me showing up for myself and in love andwanting you to choose the best life for you and
(27:14):
me to choose the best life for me.
And we're just seeing if that matches, andthat's one conversation versus, hey.
I'm going to do this and I'm gonna use this andI'm gonna use language of, like, if you don't
do this, I will dot dot dot dot dot.
Mhmm.
And that languaging could have a lot more, likelike, control and manipulation behind it.
Correct?
Is it a power play, or is it an invitation
(27:35):
Right.
At the end of the day?
Yeah.
It's a very good distinction.
Well, I know we're we're starting to wrap up ontime here.
We're definitely gonna let everybody know howto get ahold of you, and we already, you know,
talked about your, offering that we want we'llput in the show notes.
But before we wrap up and actually say allthat, is there anything in this discussion that
you feel like we have to say that we have notsaid in in the conversation of, like, ethical
(27:58):
non monogamy of, you know, starting the theconversation, of starting to begin to maybe
explore this?
Any like, this is essential.
Yeah.
I I think we we kinda started with it, but Ijust wanna reiterate.
Learning about this is just learning aboutrelationship dynamics.
We have a society that again gives us thisprescription, so it's very easy to be kinda
(28:21):
lazy about relationship.
A lot of people are participating in what Icall lazy monogamy.
Oh, yeah.
We're in relationship now.
We kinda went through this whole journey.
I assumed a bunch of stuff.
Like, we're on a date.
It probably means the same thing to you.
We live together.
It probably means the same thing to you.
Lot of assumptions, not a lot of conversation.
Relationship is an actual skill set.
You see people have no problem going to, youknow, professional communication courses and
(28:43):
how to be a better leader and all that stuff.
This is all relationship.
Why is there so much shame and avoidance arounddeveloping those same skills for our most
important relationships?
So this is just, a conversation about learningrelationship skills, learning about all the
relationship dynamics available so you canactually make an active choice.
(29:03):
Doesn't mean you have to open up yourrelationship tomorrow.
Doesn't mean you're gonna open up yourrelationship ever.
It means you're committed to choosing whateverrelationship you're in.
Yeah.
Amazing.
And and that's a really good lead in too,everybody.
We're gonna film part two and do part two in asecond.
Part two, you'll be able to access in thelibido club, so you'll find that in the show
notes as well.
And in part two, what we're doing is we aretalking about how to take all of these concepts
(29:28):
and really apply them more to the couple thathas, you know, decided that they want to be in
a monogamous relationship, and that's best forthem.
But some of these concepts we're talking aboutreally do apply to monogamy.
So if you're listening to this and you're like,oh, this is for me.
I you know, but as far as the concepts, but youwanna stay in monogamous relationships,
(29:49):
definitely tune in for part two and how to findthat will be below.
And then, of course, we wanna tell people howto, you know, work with you and all of that
because also as somebody who's, like, gonethrough all of that.
And and I like I said, I read, like, every bookand every article and everything that I could
find back then.
It was really helpful.
And having gone through that whole process,having somebody that like yourself that has
(30:12):
walked it, that has steps, that has processes,I just think is so important because I really
did see in that in those types of scenarioswith people I met.
I saw people who were, like, not navigatingconversations well and was leading to a lot of
fighting.
And I've seen relationships destroyed over itthat could have probably been saved had they
just figured out how to actually communicateeffectively and with love and and do some of
(30:38):
the steps.
So I think, you know, having that support isessential if that is if people are interested
in more exploring ethical non monogamy.
So how do people get a hold of you to learn
and get Well, yeah.
And I just wanna reiterate what you said too.
The right support is so key because when youhave a society again that has one view of what
relationship looks like, very well meaningfriends and family, when you're meeting those
(31:01):
inevitable struggles, it's so common for themto go, you know what?
This wasn't coming up until you tried openingup, so maybe you guys should close down.
Maybe this isn't for you.
When really the guidance of somebody who canreally help you dig in and see what the root
really is to help you on this journey is isjust integral.
And so many, unfortunately, so manyrelationship therapists, counselors, coaches,
(31:23):
again, come from a very mononormative viewpointbecause that's most of what's out there.
So having a specialist for this explicit, youknow, experiment, if you will, is is so key.
So so so key.
So how do you find me?
Passport to pleasure.com.
Again, that's the number two passport topleasure.com.
(31:44):
I have a very active Substack where I sharetons of free content all about all these
different skills, everything you can learn fromconsensual non monogamy to support your
relationship journey, everything from jealousyto communication to compersion, the boundaries,
tons of stuff on there.
I do videos.
I do written articles.
I share some of my own personal story as well.
And then I also have a monthly relationshipcolumn, advice column called ask Ali, and it's
(32:08):
an inclusive relationship advice column becauseI do work with monogamous couples as well.
There's been a few couples that have come to methinking that, you know, I think we wanna open
up.
Well, let's figure out what that looks like.
And, actually, they just wanted to be able toopen up to each other and talk about these
fantasies and play with them and explore them.
And then they decided, you know what?
Actually, we're gonna remain monogamous, butnow we have a deeper, more expansive level of
(32:29):
communication and understanding about ourselvesand each other.
Amazing.
And we'll have all of those links in the shownotes, you guys.
And thank you again, Ali.
Thank you for being here and sharing your yourwisdom and your knowledge and just for helping
this community so much.
Really appreciate you.
Thank you.
And everybody, look in the show notes for allof this, and we will see you in, you know, in
(32:51):
the future for another episode on the lounge.
Take care.
Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge.
Please don't keep me a secret.
Please share this with your friends.
You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, aswell as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.
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