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November 4, 2024 14 mins
Are you ready to tackle the taboo of talking about sex? Today on The Libido Lounge, Dr. Diane Mueller sits down with Dr. Evelin Dacker, a sex-positive family medicine doctor, to get real about what it takes to have open, honest conversations about intimacy. From her unique "STARS Talk" model to her inspiring journey from the roller derby rink to the TEDx stage, Dr. Dacker shares how we can all approach sex as an important part of health and well-being. This episode dives into why talking about sex can be tough, how these conversations can get easier, and why they matter at every stage of life. Whether you’re looking to connect with a partner, bring new tools to your practice, or just be more comfortable discussing your own needs, this conversation will help you break down barriers. Get ready to rethink intimacy, communication, and the joy of a healthy sexual life.
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Episode Transcript

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(00:00):
Welcome to the libido lounge.
We focus on all things love, lust, and libido.
We believe that fabulous sex is important tohealth as exercise and good food.
Hey, everybody.

(00:20):
Welcome back to another episode on the lounge.
I'm your libido expert, Doctor.
Diane Mueller, and I'm so excited to inviteDoctor.
Eveline Dacker to our show today.
We're gonna have a great conversation.
I was really inspired to get doctor Dacker onthe phone with me today because of so many
areas of her work, but in particular, her workaround communication and how we talk about sex.

(00:44):
She has a really great acronym and process forwhat she teaches about.
We're gonna get into that today.
And a lot of the episode, we're gonna see wherethis goes as always, but a lot of the
orientation today is going to be oncommunication, on sex, on how do we talk to our
partners, on how do we talk to each other aboutthis very important topic.
So thank you so much for being here with metoday.

(01:06):
Yeah.
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here as well.
I'd love before we jump into the the juicinessof the story.
I'd love to hear a little bit of the nuts andbolts of you from a standpoint of you've gone
such an interesting direction as a doc in yourcareer to really bring so much communication
and so much of the conversation around healthysexuality and not just to focus on, say, the

(01:31):
physical components of human sexuality.
So I'm curious about your story, if we can leadwith that around, like, what what really
happened or what transpired to help youunderstand that this is such an important thing
to talk about and then to, you know, take itpretty big and get on, you know, TEDx and
really be getting your word out.
What was what was the initial, say, the processof that?

(01:55):
Oh, okay.
It was roller derby.
For real or figurative?
No, honey.
We really like I joined the roller derby teamwhen I was like 44.
And all of a sudden, like being in a group ofwomen who were in this like place in their life
of wanting to express themselves and like withavatars and dressing up and just like being in

(02:18):
a community of women really made me realize howlittle we know about sex, how little we know
about our own sexuality, and how little it'stalked about.
So I was not a good roller derby player, but Iwas kind of like the team doc.
And people just were asking me questions.
And at the same time, I was in the process ofgetting a certification in functional medicine,

(02:41):
which I kind of called natural empathy for MDs.
And, I realized, darn, I'm learning about allthis root cause of illness and disease, but
we're not talking about what something that'sso important and that's pleasure.
Yeah.
That's your connection.
What makes our life yummy.
Right.
And, and that's kind of where I started goinginto sexuality, but not sexuality.

(03:05):
It's like something is wrong, but like, how canwe actually make things great for ourselves?
I was also 44.
So I know as being a doctor, you know, I work,I've been working with menopause and
periadipause for the last twenty, thirty years.
And I had this story in my head that, oh myGod, I'm going to hit 50 and I'm going to be
dead sexually.

(03:26):
Right.
Because that's kind of the story that we'regiven.
And I decided that that didn't have to be true.
And I went deep into like studying sexuality,but not from the lens of medicine and
dysfunction, but from the lens of like, whatare people actually doing?
And, so, you know, I like to laugh, like I tookup my first people ask me, so how'd you get

(03:49):
into this?
Like, what, what, like, what continuingeducation did you do?
And I'm like, oh, I took some classes at a, ata sex store and there's an adult store.
There's a late store in Portland, Oregon calledshe bop and they used to teach classes.
So I went and I started learning from peoplewho were sex educators.
And, I realized that there's some reallyimportant things out there that is not known in

(04:15):
the mainstream.
Stream.
And I just felt like the worlds could be sodifferent to the way we navigate sexuality
could be so different if we take these lessonsfrom, you know, these sex positive subcultures
and actually bring them to the mainstream,which is kind of where my work is.
I love it.
And definitely similar soul missions.
I I often say pleasure is not just aboutdesire.

(04:37):
It's something we require.
And it's for exactly what you said.
It's like so much I think of motivation inmedicine and society is like away from pain,
which is important.
But I really appreciate what you're doingbecause, like, there's it's like changing the
orientation from moving away from pain toactually, like you said, like, making life more
yummy.
Right?

(04:57):
Bringing in more of that pleasure.
So it's such a great orientation to health of,like, towards pleasure versus, like, chasing
away the bad thing, even though we wanna getaway with that bad thing too.
So in these years of study, what have you foundto be some of the core things that are
important for healthy sexuality and sexualexpression?

(05:19):
Well, of course, communication.
Yay.
We got Yay.
And then and we had to talk about like, oh, wegotta talk about sex.
But one of the things that I realized is thatwe don't have a framework to talk about it.
So so I came up with one.
I came up with a framework and it's called theSARS talk.
And I'll get into this in a minute.
Please.
But the other thing that really I noticed isthat we need to understand ourselves,

(05:42):
especially people who are raised as women.
Like we're not taught how to own our ownsexuality and our own, like, pleasure and our
own for us.
Right?
Yeah.
And so much of what we're taught aboutsexuality is like reproductive sex, penetrative
sex, heterosexual sex.
And if we could step a little bit away fromthat and relearn what sexuality means, then

(06:08):
we're able to talk about it.
We're able to ask for it.
We're able to keep it alive for us.
And so that's what the STARS talk is.
It it actually is not only a framework to haveconversations, but it's a framework for us to
understand our to create our sexual selfawareness.
Yeah.
It's so important because I think that's one ofthe the biggest things is, like, where to get

(06:28):
started, how to get started.
And you're right.
Like, so many times, it's, like, such a taboothing to talk about sex.
And another thing I hear in so many of myfemale population, so much of my female
population is, like, this sense of, like, I'mdoing it wrong.
Right?
There's almost this feeling of, like, becausewe're not taught that women and men, our
processes are different.

(06:48):
Right?
That that oftentimes there's this this senseof, like, doing it wrong that I see in in my
female population.
And it's really just, like, this lack ofcommunication and this lack of understanding
and this lack of awareness of, like, therethere's really no right and wrong in this.
It's it's about consent and exploration andcommunication.
And so let's get into Yeah.

(07:10):
Your STARS framework.
I wanna make sure we get, you know, thoroughlyinto that city.
No.
Let's talk
in.
Okay.
So the very so it's an acronym and each onestands for something.
I'll just say what the acronym is really first.
I will go into each other.
So it stands for safety needs, turn ons, avoidsrelationship values or retentions and
expectations, and then our sexual health STIdisclosure.

(07:34):
So it starts out with safety needs because, youknow, I've been working on this framework for
many years, and I realized, like, thefundamental thing that we need to know is how
to stay safe because we cannot open our heart,our mind, or our body if we're not really safe.
So then what if safe, what does that even mean?
Right.

(07:54):
And so I'd like to take that even a step backinto like, what does our body tell us?
What is the somatic safety?
Could we tune into like, oh, when I feel safe,this is how my body is acting.
And when I don't feel safe, this is how I'macting.
And like, then you could decide to realizelike, oh, I need like, for me personally, I
don't feel safe if I'm with somebody andthey're drinking a lot of alcohol.

(08:17):
Like, I don't feel like I could really haveconsent in that situation.
So one of my safety needs that I tell people islike, I count drinks.
If you're gonna have more than two alcoholicdrinks, then, you know, it's gonna change our,
our encounter.
Some other things that could be safety is like,where do I feel?
What location do I feel safe?
Is do I feel safe getting into a car withsomebody that I haven't met yet?

(08:40):
No.
So, you know, like, let me just tell that tosomebody upfront so that we could make plans in
a way that we could come together so that we'reboth safe?
Like, what do we both need?
And it's not something we talk about.
It's not even something we think about, butit's so important.
So I like to start with safety needs.
Safety needs also like sometimes the whole sextalk is about safer sex.

(09:03):
So we think it's about like condoms andreproductive.
But I like to put that to the end and reallystart with, like, what does our body, our mind,
our sex, like, what do we need to feel safewith a person?
So that's the first one.
The second one is turn ons or things we like.
Like, what do I like?
One of my turn ons is I love goodconversations.

(09:25):
Like, that helps me feel safe as well.
Like, having a good conversation with somebodybefore I would even consider getting address.
I know there's people that are really intohookups, and that's good.
That's what their turn ons are.
That's what they like.
So let's bring it out.
Like, how we'd like to be touched.
I like to be touched really slowly and softly.
So I let my partners know that.
So if they're not touching me, you know,softly, I could always say just now a little

(09:49):
softer, a little slower, and they don't feelbad about it.
I'm just telling them the way that I like.
I also love to know what my partner's like.
How do they like to be held and touched and,and what turns them on?
The, the counter of that is our avoid what wedon't want.
And, you know, these two could go back andforth and they're, they're very mad.
They go together, turn on to the void, but ouravoid our boundaries, the things that we don't

(10:13):
want, the things that may cause us to be goingto trauma response.
If we're going really deep into that, like howdo I, what is my trauma response?
How do I look?
How do I show up?
And can I tell a partner that beforehand?
So if it happens, they're aware of it.
That's a little deeper into the conversation,but I like to bring that up because I think,
consent has to happen from a trauma awareembodied attuned space.

(10:39):
And the stars talk is a talk, it is aconversation, but it really involves being
trauma aware, embodied, and leaning intolearning attunement with one another.
So our turn ons and avoids are really, theycould be very powerful for us to actually
explain them.

(10:59):
And I know, when I teach this to a lot ofpeople who are raised as girls and raised as
women, a lot of them don't even know what theylike.
I didn't even know what I liked.
It's like, what do I like?
I don't know.
I'd like to like turn my partner on.
I like to like orgasm proof this or that.
I don't know what I like.
I like to make him happy.
You know?
But, really, it's about owning ourselves and,like, knowing what do we want and not censoring

(11:25):
them, not censoring their orgasm.
But, you know, this is how we're gonna closethe orgasm gap.
So those are my turn ons and avoids.
And then, there's our relationship expectationsand intentions.
This is kind of like summed up in like, whatdoes sex mean to me?
What do I want in a relationship?
What am I looking for with this person?

(11:46):
Am I looking for someone distracting?
Am I looking for fun?
Am I looking for sex?
Or am I looking for partnership and love?
And knowing that and being clear withinourselves, help us navigate this whole dating
world or put in a relationship with somebody tobe like, oh, you know what?
I'm feeling like we're doing the domestic thingreally good, but I am missing a little bit of

(12:07):
that, that spontaneity and juice.
So like bringing that to our conversation withour partners.
And, you know, when I say expectations, peopleare like, oh, we shouldn't have expectations,
but it's human to have expectations.
So that's all that we have them and let's saythem and let's just be clear with one another.
And then the, you know, so that, that, and withpart of our expectations, I got this from the

(12:32):
sex positive communities, because one of thethings that really like made such an impact
from with me is when I kind of learned a littlebit about kink and BDSM and how people go into
this as a scene.
So they, they create a scene, they actuallycommunicate what they want, what they don't
want.
And then after they're done, they haveaftercare.

(12:54):
Yeah.
And I loved that concept.
I'm like, why doesn't why don't we all haveaftercare?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's cool.
I love pee.
Like, you know, being in a sexual, dynamic withsomebody or intimate dynamic, it takes energy
and and and I want aftercare.
So, like, I'm gonna ask what I need, and I'mgonna figure out what it is I need, and I wanna
know what my partner needs.

(13:16):
So expectations is kind of that.
It's kind of like the aftercare.
Do I I wanna be texted.
I don't like it when I text somebody and theydon't respond to me, you know, in a day.
I don't like ghosting.
And if you're, I, I look out for that.
Like, are you somebody that ghosts?
Because that's going to be something likethat's on my no list.
That's on my avoid list.
Yes.
So, so that's the relationship.

(13:38):
And then the last death, like, oh, you know, Ialso want to mention that most of the time we
start with the, our, we don't start, you know,we start with the safety needs in our body.
Then we start with the R of what our intentionsand expectations and our values are.
Then if we're fairly comfortable, we'll go tomore turn ons and the blades, but you know, the
acronym doesn't work in that direction.

(13:59):
Yeah.
We're gonna start and we're done.
And so then at the very, very end is when wetalk about our sexuality and our sexual health
and our STI.
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