August 28, 2025 • 26 mins
Are you unintentionally sabotaging your relationship or losing your libido without knowing why? In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Emily Jamea to talk about the subtle, unsexy habits that can quietly destroy emotional and physical intimacy in long-term relationships. These aren’t dramatic blow-ups or obvious red flags but small, everyday behaviors that slowly build walls between you and your partner. We unpacked why these habits form, how they affect your connection over time, and what you can do to turn things around. If you’ve been feeling distant, disconnected, or stuck in a rut, this conversation offers real, practical ways to reignite desire and rebuild closeness. Whether you’re in a committed relationship or just want to better understand how to keep love and passion alive, this video is a powerful starting point.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Sex is most of the time a physical act.
(00:03):
Of course, it's hugely emotional and relationaland I write and it's an opportunity for self
expression concepts that I write aboutextensively in the book.
You know, I I had kinda noticed an increasingthe high number of people in my office
complaining about this inability to quiet downthe mind enough to focus on the sensations of
(00:25):
Zach.
I think thanks in large part to our smartphonesand the degree to which we're multitasking all
day long.
So, you know, when you're having lunch, justsit and have lunch.
Or when you're having a glass of wine in theevening, just kind of stop what you're doing
for a second and just actually taste the wineor the coffee or the tea whatever it may be.
(00:46):
Just elongate the time that you're kind oftouching and exploring each other's bodies, so
that you can make that transition of the chaosof your day and to kind of this sacred space
that the two of you can share.
The whole premise of the book draws from flowstate sign.
One of those is clear goals with immediatefeedback as to whether or not you're reaching
(01:11):
those goals.
Just wanted to take a quick minute to tell youhow you can get almost $250 worth of free
bonuses that will teach you how to improve yourdesire, how to have more libido, how to get the
right test done to figure out the root causesof low libido from a physical perspective.
This is for men and women.
(01:32):
And you do this by preordering a copy of mybook.
My book is coming out in late fall.
Projected date is November 1.
And in my book, we're gonna talk about allsorts of physical root causes for low libido,
how to help pelvic pain, how to help erectiledysfunction, how to help vaginal dryness, how
(01:52):
to do this together in your partnerships, andso much more.
And when you preorder a copy, I am giving youalmost $250 worth of bonuses right away for
your support.
So to get that, you simply go towanttowantit.com or look in the show notes for
that direct link.
So wanttowantit.com, the name of my book.
(02:14):
Now back to our show.
Hi, LAPIDO Lounge members and listeners.
It's so good to have you back here for anotherpodcast.
I had a really exciting guest today.
I have doctor Emily Jamia.
We are gonna talk about her book, Anatomy ofDesire.
So we're gonna go deep with this because one ofthe cool things about having an author on these
(02:34):
shows is I get to read these things andformulate all my questions that I have, that I
think you might have, and then we get to have areal live chat with doctor Chinia herself.
So that's what we're gonna do today.
We're gonna talk about what really drivesdesire.
We're gonna talk about safety and this conceptof disembodiment, like, when people are just,
(02:56):
like, not present or not in their body, they'renot experiencing the sensation.
What's happening there?
One of the questions that I'm gonna ask her,which I'm so excited to hear her answer to, and
I know you will be too, is if you followed meon this show before, most people I interview
say, hey, it is a really, really bad idea tohave goal oriented sex.
(03:19):
They should not do that.
One of the things that Doctor.
Emily says on page 52 of her book is that thisis not what she says.
So we're gonna get to what's going on, why shesays this, and so much more.
So welcome to the show, Emily.
I'm so happy to be here with you.
Thank you so much for having me.
I am thrilled to be chatting with you today.
Yeah.
(03:39):
It's gonna be such a fun conversation.
Let's get started.
So let's talk about this concept ofdisembodiment.
So this is something that I know some of ourlisteners have heard before, and and the way I
oftentimes look at disembodiment is, hey, weare not able to feel the sensations in our body
sometimes due to things like trauma where wejust go into this almost like freeze mechanism.
(04:04):
But talk to us about just a little bit moreabout, like, how you define disembodiment, what
it is exactly, and what role does it actuallyplay with desire intimacy?
Why is this so important?
Yeah.
So, you know, sex is most of the time aphysical act.
Of course, it's hugely emotional andrelational, and I write, and it's an
(04:26):
opportunity for self expression concepts that Iwrite about extensively in the book, but by and
large, it's a very physical act.
And, you know, I I had kinda noticed anincreasing the high number of people in my
office complaining about this inability toquiet down the mind enough to focus on the
(04:46):
sensations of sex, you know, they would saythings like, I'm there with my partner, we're
kinda going through the motions, but then Ihave these thoughts like, you know, have I
registered my kid for summer camp?
Do they have coats that fit them for the nextseason?
Did I remember to call my sister back?
This like never ending to do list, which, youknow, that mental load is a conversation that
(05:08):
has become very prominent in the last couple ofyears, but, you know, I noticed just a huge
difference from when I first started working asa therapist to when I, you know, started
writing this book, and I started to wonder whythat is.
And so I actually called up one of my firstever sex therapy supervisors, her name was
(05:32):
Doctor.
Ruth Sherman, not the Doctor.
Ruth, but another wonderful Doctor.
Ruth, to ask her if this was a problem that sheremembered her patients complaining of.
And the reason I called her specifically isbecause at the time she was my supervisor when
I was just a baby sex therapist, She hadretired from seeing clients, so this would have
(05:53):
been back in like 02/2008, 02/2009.
And people had smartphones, but we were not asapp driven as we are this day and age.
Like Instagram, I think, had maybe not evencome out yet as an app.
So, you know, I I asked her if she rememberedher patients complaining about this.
She took a few days to get back to me, and shesaid, you know, Emily, I definitely had people
(06:16):
who would get distracted over things like bodyimage concerns, or I had men worried about
losing their erection, but she said this neverending chitter chatter in people's heads that
you're describing, she said, I I thought a lotabout it, and I just don't remember that being
a complaint, which kinda confirmed myhypothesis, which is that we are becoming
(06:38):
increasingly disembodied as a society.
I think thanks in large part to oursmartphones, and the degree to which we're
multitasking all day long.
You know, our devices allow us to listen to apodcast when we're out for a walk, or check
emails while we're sitting down for lunch, orread the news when we're stopped at a traffic
(07:01):
light.
So you cannot expect to go from split attentionall day long to the singular focus of sex.
You know, not just that, but our calendars arejust, I think, overly full with commitments and
obligations.
Our lives have just become a lot busier.
(07:22):
And, you know, so I just don't think it'srealistic to go from split attention all day
long, you know, or two people who are justbusier, kinda living like two ships passing in
the night, to then, you know, deciding on amoment's notice to reconnect and stay fully
present and engage with the body during sex.
And so, you know, this is the focus, I wouldsay, the sensuality chapter of the book.
(07:47):
It's kinda like how to Marie Kundo your sexlife and and really get back to the basics, but
in a really deep and meaningful way, and and,and so, yeah, that's kinda what that's about.
Well, and you you kinda started answering mysecond question, which my second question was
gonna be like, how common really is this,right, from a standpoint of like statistics and
(08:09):
that sort of thing?
And it sounds like what you're saying is like,hey, in talking to one of your mentors, like,
it's becoming, like, increasingly more commonthat this is happening over time based upon
things like multitasking smartphones, how muchwe are pulled in different ways, and ultimately
being pulled in different ways where I'm, like,I can put my mind on this, and I can put my
(08:29):
mind on this, and I can put my mind on this,ultimately means we're probably not putting our
mind on the sensations of our body.
Correct?
Exactly.
Precisely, and that's what embodiment is allabout.
It's a step beyond mindfulness.
You know, mindfulness is such a buzzword, andwe hear it all the time, and it's a great tool
for a number of things, and it's a wonderfulfirst step.
(08:51):
You know, mindfulness is all about noticing theintrusive thought, but then kind of detaching
from it emotionally and redirecting yourattention back into the body, but that sort of
this kind of back and forth of noticing thethought coming back into the body, noticing the
thought coming back into the body.
People who are truly embodied, especially whenthey're doing things like enjoying a meal or
(09:12):
out for a walk or having a really great sexualexperience, don't have those thoughts at all
because they are so fully present in the body.
I love one thing that embodiment expert MarkWalsh says, which is that mindfulness is kind
of like being aware of the body, but embodimentis being aware as the body.
(09:38):
So we The differentiation.
I love it.
It's just a simple change in proposition, butit kinda packs a major punch.
I mean, it's a huge shift.
And so, you know, people in my study or, like,in Peggy Kleinplatz's research as well, which
sort of, have a very large part kind ofinspired my work, you know, talks about how,
(09:59):
you know, people will say things like, youknow, my hand went there because that's what it
wanted to do.
You know?
So it's it's a really, to a large extent, kindadeeper level of presence with the body and with
the five senses, while at the same time kindaholding space for your partner's experience as
well.
You're really doing a good job of just likeleading me perfectly into the next question, so
(10:23):
I ask, which is wonderful.
I'm the first rodeo.
So
so Well, you've mentioned something in justwhat you said that you also said on page
eighteen and nineteen of your book, which isabout using things like movement and eating,
like, these types of things can be ways ofpracticing embodiment, that these can actually
be embodied types of activities.
(10:44):
So my question for you then is, like, how doyou, from a standpoint of actionable steps, you
know, people are listening to this and beinglike, wow, I'm definitely not embodied most of
the time, which frankly, I think is actually alot of humans, how do people begin to recognize
like, this is like truly, I am not in my body,like what what is that point of like, oh,
(11:07):
right, here's me not in my body, here's mecoming back to my body?
Yeah.
I think what I hear most often is is phraseslike, I just feel like we're going through the
motions, and you know, I'm physically present,but I'm not emotionally engaged.
So, you know, but even that that statement, I'mphysically present, I would argue, I guess,
because you know, if you're not engaged withthe body, yes, you may be there, but you're not
(11:31):
really present.
So, know, what I encourage people to do,especially if this is their issue, is to do
little things, especially on a day when they'rewanting to have better than average sex, single
task as much as possible.
It's, you know, it's kind of a, like, a littlemuscle we have to start flexing, you know.
(11:52):
I I write in the book, you cannot expect towalk to run a marathon if you've never walked
around the block.
So, you know, when you're having lunch, justsit and have lunch, or when you're having a
glass of wine in the evening, just kinda stopwhat you're doing for a second and just
actually taste the wine or the coffee or thetea or whatever it may be.
You know, people in my research, you know,talked about how they were the kind of people
(12:17):
to stop and smell the roses when they were outfor a walk, or you know, they would really
notice the sensation of the shower in themorning.
So, you know, as much as possible, practicethroughout the day being present in the body.
And then aside from that, there's lots oflittle ways to transition from the chaos of the
(12:39):
day to day into the body space that's requiredfor truly embodied sex.
So I'll tell people to do things like, youknow, take literally thirty seconds.
You don't need more than that just to do somedeep diaphragmatic breathing to calm the
nervous system, or, you know, when you and yourpartner start to engage, just elongate the time
(13:02):
that you're kind of touching and exploring eachother's bodies, so that you can make that
transition of the chaos of your day into kindof this sacred space that the two of you can
share.
If you haven't taken a minute yet to go towanttowantit.com to get your bonuses, almost
$250 worth of free bonuses for pre ordering mybook, I recommend you do that now.
(13:26):
We're gonna go through so many reasons and somany solutions to fixing low libido for both
men and women.
It is action packed with solutions fromsupplements, to diet, to lifestyle, to lab
tests you should talk to your doctor about, tophysical routines you can change.
So many things designed to help supportestrogen and testosterone and circulation and
(13:51):
erectile dysfunction, vaginal dryness, so muchmore.
So if you go to wanttowantit.com, you can findthat book with her pre order, and you can also
then take advantage of the almost $250 worth ofbonuses I am giving away for pre order that
will not be available for long.
Now let's get back to our episode.
You know, a lot of people rush through sex, andoftentimes don't give it the time it needs to
(14:18):
get into a focused state.
So we know from research, like on focus andattention, that it takes people on average,
like twelve to fifteen minutes to get into ahighly focused state, and when that focus is
broken by something like a ping on the phone,it can take twenty five minutes to regain that
(14:39):
focus, and so, you know, there's a lot I thinkto be said about that, because, you know,
oftentimes people don't even have sex fortwelve to fifteen minutes.
And so if the goal is to work on embodiment,and presence, and to awaken the five senses,
you know, if I had to put everything down inkind of a a nugget piece of advice, it would be
(15:03):
to slow down, way down, you know, and talk toyour partner about that.
I I was just kinda scrolling on my Instagramthe other day, and this sex coach shared a post
that I thought was so great.
She said, you know, we think of arousal andkind of foreplay as this very you're kind of
trying to excite someone, like activate thenervous system, but she's like, what if we
(15:26):
think about it more as like a groundingexperience?
And I was like, yes.
Like, that is exactly what I'm talking abouthere.
You know, I personally noticed I needed that alot more after having kids, you know.
I needed to kind of have a a more kind ofpresent.
I'm like, can you just kind of massage me inlike a non sexual way, you know, for five, ten
(15:47):
minutes, so that I can make that transition,and so I think just when we're busy, and we're
working, and we have a million commitments, orespecially for people who have young kids at
home, you know, these are the kinds of stepsyou need to take to start to get back in touch
with the senses and wake them up again.
Yeah.
I've seen that so much in my work too aroundthe massage, the bath, the even co showering,
(16:12):
like, and just, like, being there, holding eachother, and just, like Yeah.
You know, just those types of activities.
Like, we don't count those those things asforeplay, but in some ways, like, that's, like,
the most pivotal foreplay around, like, gettinginside one's body, but having those practices
to actually do that before we actually go pastthere, because it's so easy to be just checked
out into the day, the task, the things youforgot to do at work without those those
(16:37):
situations, without that support.
Yeah.
So then moving on to one of our, you know,teasers for the episode here around because
this I found to be super interesting what yousaid on page 52, and you said that ninety nine
percent of sex therapists say that you shouldnot have goal oriented sex.
And I know, you know, a lot of the way thatthis a lot of the reason for this is that, hey,
(17:00):
we don't want to hyper focus on orgasm, and sothat's where a lot of this comes from is like,
hey, hyper focus on orgasm sometimes puts thepressure on, and that leads to oftentimes it
backfiring.
So, you know, you specifically in your booksay, like, not me, which I just, you know, I
love your your your call out on that.
Yeah.
(17:21):
But I wanna know why.
Why not you?
Why are
you a I bad know.
It's a bit it's a bit heretical.
But yes, you know, it's not bad advice per seto to not have goal oriented sex, and of
course, the idea is so that you you focus onthe kind of those moment by moment pleasures,
and there's so much to be discovered in themoment and and less in the outcome like the
(17:44):
orgasm or having you know, sustaining theerection or whatever it may be.
However, you know, the book, it the wholepremise of the book draws from flow state
science.
So just briefly, you know, flow state is adecades old term coined by American Hungarian
psychologist, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
It describes the state of mind that we enterwhen we are so fully engaged, focused, and
(18:09):
absorbed in an activity that, you know, timeand space kinda disappear.
It has we have experienced a sense ofeffortlessness.
You know, think of a surfer who's at one withthe wave.
And when we look at flow state science, we seethat there are eight core components of flow.
You don't have to have them all at the sametime, but usually you have, you know, a few of
(18:31):
them at once, and and you can say, yeah, Ithink I was in a flow state.
One of those is clear goals with immediatefeedback as to whether or not you're reaching
those goals, and it's one of the mostpredictable ways to get into flow.
And I think it's best illustrated by, you know,think of like a musical band.
(18:52):
Right?
They have a goal.
They have a song that they are working togetherto perform, and they know right in the moment
whether someone is off key or makes a misstepwith their instrument that that goal maybe
isn't being reached optimally, and so they'llreadjust that they as a group can meet their
goal.
Same with a sports team, you know, they can'tstop and talk through every move when they're
(19:14):
out there on a field.
There's a cohesiveness, a synchrony that wesee, and again, when someone makes a misstep,
they're then working against the goal ofwinning the game.
So they talk at length about what their goalsare.
We can look at, you know, the BDSM and Kinkcommunity.
Tons of goal setting to create these scenesthat they have envisioned playing out in their
(19:37):
head, and a lot of conversation around thingslike boundaries and safe words and and that
sort of thing, and we know that people in theBDSM community experience flow state more
frequently than people who, you know, kind ofhave more vanilla sex.
Not that you have to have BDSM to experienceflow, and I write about this in the book, but
this idea of being clear about what you'rewanting from the experience, I think, is a bit
(20:03):
of a reframe that we can pull from occasionallyto, to add a bit more intention to what we're
doing.
Because when we are intentional about what wewant from the experience, we can work together
as a team to create the desired experience.
And sometimes it may be things like, hey, Iwanna see if I can have multiple orgasms, you
(20:27):
know, let's play with that today.
Or, you know, I sometimes it's more meaningmaking, like, god, I just want this, you know,
when we make love tonight, I want it to feelreally romantic, and tender, and soft.
And so everyone shows up with that intention,and when you're intentional about something,
you focus on it, and flow follows focus.
(20:51):
So anything we can do to help drive focus isgonna be more likely to get us into that flow
state.
Yeah.
It's so beautifully said.
I see that in my own relationship too aroundcertain things where it's like, oh, we're gonna
play with this tantric breath work practicetonight, for example, or like when you're
talking about like the different feelings, Ihave different playlists for the type of
(21:12):
intimacy that we want that night, whether it'sgonna be, you know, like, way more just, like,
sweet and that sort of thing versus just, like,way more intense.
Right?
That's gonna have a very different type ofsetting.
And so Yeah.
You will even set the stage and be like, oh,yeah.
This is the playlist we evoke that versus thisis the playlist we evoke that.
(21:33):
Yes.
That's a perfect example.
That's exactly what I'm talking Beautiful.
And then, so talk to us, because you talk aboutthis too in your book on page two forty seven
when you talk about the flow state.
You talk about transient hypofrontality.
So tell us about that.
What is that, and how does that influence flow?
Yeah.
Such a wonderful, like, brain phenomenon thathappens when we're in a flow state.
(21:56):
And, you know, I I like to talk about it incomparison to the honeymoon stage, you know,
because everyone is looking back to thehoneymoon stage as kind of the, you know, the
place that they're trying to get back to, butnobody in my research cited the honeymoon stage
as the best sex.
They all talked about sex that happened waylater, so that's one a huge myth that we have
(22:21):
to move away from.
And when we're looking at what's happeningneurochemically in the brain during the
honeymoon stage, you know, of course we have aton of dopamine, which is the reward chemical.
We've got the oxytocin from all the physicaltouch, which feels really good.
We've got norepinephrine, which kinda makes usfeel charged up.
But we experience a dip in serotonin, Andthat's a problem because what serotonin what
(22:47):
serotonin does is make us feel kind of calm,steady, and at ease.
You know, people who have low serotonin levelshave things like anxiety and OCD, and because
those levels dip in the honeymoon stage, why wekind of obsess over whether or not that new
person is gonna call us back, and we kind ofruminate over them, and it it kind of creates
anxiety early on.
(23:07):
When we're in a flow state, however, and andwe'll talk kind of about what that transient
hypofrontality is, we we get the dopamine, weget the oxytocin, you know, through the sex, we
get the norepinephrine, We also get endorphins,which can help us forget the pain that we're
in.
I actually talked to a lot of people in myresearch who were chronic pain sufferers, or
(23:30):
who had chronic illness, who actually turned tosex as a way to forget their pain.
We get anandamide, helps tighten focus, and weget a boost in serotonin.
So you actually get a much more potentneurochemical cocktail during flow state than
you do in the honeymoon phase, And, part ofwhat causes that is this transient hypo
(23:53):
mortality, so what that means is that theprefrontal cortex part of the brain, which is
where our executive function or higher ordercognitive thinking happens, things like, you
know, rationality, decision making, planning,kind of that that monkey brain, it goes quiet.
So when we're in a flow state, we're not reallyusing more of the brain as you might expect,
(24:16):
we're in fact using less of the brain.
And, when that part of the brain goes quiet,because it also kind of houses our personality
and sense of self, we're no longer selfconscious.
So the body image issues disappear, the, youknow, insecurity disappears, the self doubt,
(24:36):
the worry about quote unquote performance,which is a word my clients are not allowed to
use, all of that quiets down because of thisexperience.
So it's it's pretty fun.
Yeah.
It's so great.
And everybody, we are gonna wrap up today'sepisode, but I wanna let you know some Emily
has some amazing bonuses for you guys.
We're gonna talk about those.
(24:58):
We're gonna continue this conversation becausesome of what that some of what was just said,
it's really important to think about, okay,well, what is happening at that beginning of
the relationship?
And, you know, and there's vulnerability there.
And another thing Emily talks about in her bookis this concept of of vulnerability and where
that plays in at different points of therelationship and how that impacts sex and
(25:20):
intimacy and desire and all that.
And I also wanna cover with her in part two theconcept of attunement because she says that
this is one of the most important parts of sexis attunement, and I could not agree more.
So we're gonna talk about that and so much morein part two.
So I'm gonna link below this video how youaccess part two.
(25:41):
But before we do that, I wanna make sureeverybody knows how to get ahold of your book,
your bonuses, and everything you have for ustoday.
So can you share Thank
you so much.
Yes.
So you if you purchase the book, you can visitmy website, which is emilyjimiya.com, and
there's an online form you fill out there, andyou get access to hundreds of dollars worth of
(26:01):
free bonuses with qualified book bookpurchases.
So I have things like, you know, access to mymaster class, the intimacy discussion deck.
I have a thirty day intimacy challenge, apleasure playlist.
You know, we were talking about music.
So all, like, tons of goodies are there for youto check out.
So it's a really good deal.
And then if you wanna follow along for moredaily tips, you can follow me across all the
(26:24):
socials at d r emily jamia.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much, and thank you forbeing here.
And everybody, it's been a pleasure as alwaysto have you here with me.
Please do subscribe and share this with yourfriends.
We'll see you again soon.
Ciao for now.
Thank you for listening to the libido lounge.
Please don't keep me a secret.
(26:45):
Please share this with your friends.
You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, aswell as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.
Sex is most of the time a physical act.
(00:03):
Of course, it's hugely emotional and relationaland I write and it's an opportunity for self
expression concepts that I write aboutextensively in the book.
You know, I I had kinda noticed an increasingthe high number of people in my office
complaining about this inability to quiet downthe mind enough to focus on the sensations of
(00:25):
Zach.
I think thanks in large part to our smartphonesand the degree to which we're multitasking all
day long.
So, you know, when you're having lunch, justsit and have lunch.
Or when you're having a glass of wine in theevening, just kind of stop what you're doing
for a second and just actually taste the wineor the coffee or the tea whatever it may be.
(00:46):
Just elongate the time that you're kind oftouching and exploring each other's bodies, so
that you can make that transition of the chaosof your day and to kind of this sacred space
that the two of you can share.
The whole premise of the book draws from flowstate sign.
One of those is clear goals with immediatefeedback as to whether or not you're reaching
(01:11):
those goals.
Just wanted to take a quick minute to tell youhow you can get almost $250 worth of free
bonuses that will teach you how to improve yourdesire, how to have more libido, how to get the
right test done to figure out the root causesof low libido from a physical perspective.
This is for men and women.
(01:32):
And you do this by preordering a copy of mybook.
My book is coming out in late fall.
Projected date is November 1.
And in my book, we're gonna talk about allsorts of physical root causes for low libido,
how to help pelvic pain, how to help erectiledysfunction, how to help vaginal dryness, how
(01:52):
to do this together in your partnerships, andso much more.
And when you preorder a copy, I am giving youalmost $250 worth of bonuses right away for
your support.
So to get that, you simply go towanttowantit.com or look in the show notes for
that direct link.
So wanttowantit.com, the name of my book.
(02:14):
Now back to our show.
Hi, LAPIDO Lounge members and listeners.
It's so good to have you back here for anotherpodcast.
I had a really exciting guest today.
I have doctor Emily Jamia.
We are gonna talk about her book, Anatomy ofDesire.
So we're gonna go deep with this because one ofthe cool things about having an author on these
(02:34):
shows is I get to read these things andformulate all my questions that I have, that I
think you might have, and then we get to have areal live chat with doctor Chinia herself.
So that's what we're gonna do today.
We're gonna talk about what really drivesdesire.
We're gonna talk about safety and this conceptof disembodiment, like, when people are just,
(02:56):
like, not present or not in their body, they'renot experiencing the sensation.
What's happening there?
One of the questions that I'm gonna ask her,which I'm so excited to hear her answer to, and
I know you will be too, is if you followed meon this show before, most people I interview
say, hey, it is a really, really bad idea tohave goal oriented sex.
(03:19):
They should not do that.
One of the things that Doctor.
Emily says on page 52 of her book is that thisis not what she says.
So we're gonna get to what's going on, why shesays this, and so much more.
So welcome to the show, Emily.
I'm so happy to be here with you.
Thank you so much for having me.
I am thrilled to be chatting with you today.
Yeah.
(03:39):
It's gonna be such a fun conversation.
Let's get started.
So let's talk about this concept ofdisembodiment.
So this is something that I know some of ourlisteners have heard before, and and the way I
oftentimes look at disembodiment is, hey, weare not able to feel the sensations in our body
sometimes due to things like trauma where wejust go into this almost like freeze mechanism.
(04:04):
But talk to us about just a little bit moreabout, like, how you define disembodiment, what
it is exactly, and what role does it actuallyplay with desire intimacy?
Why is this so important?
Yeah.
So, you know, sex is most of the time aphysical act.
Of course, it's hugely emotional andrelational, and I write, and it's an
(04:26):
opportunity for self expression concepts that Iwrite about extensively in the book, but by and
large, it's a very physical act.
And, you know, I I had kinda noticed anincreasing the high number of people in my
office complaining about this inability toquiet down the mind enough to focus on the
(04:46):
sensations of sex, you know, they would saythings like, I'm there with my partner, we're
kinda going through the motions, but then Ihave these thoughts like, you know, have I
registered my kid for summer camp?
Do they have coats that fit them for the nextseason?
Did I remember to call my sister back?
This like never ending to do list, which, youknow, that mental load is a conversation that
(05:08):
has become very prominent in the last couple ofyears, but, you know, I noticed just a huge
difference from when I first started working asa therapist to when I, you know, started
writing this book, and I started to wonder whythat is.
And so I actually called up one of my firstever sex therapy supervisors, her name was
(05:32):
Doctor.
Ruth Sherman, not the Doctor.
Ruth, but another wonderful Doctor.
Ruth, to ask her if this was a problem that sheremembered her patients complaining of.
And the reason I called her specifically isbecause at the time she was my supervisor when
I was just a baby sex therapist, She hadretired from seeing clients, so this would have
(05:53):
been back in like 02/2008, 02/2009.
And people had smartphones, but we were not asapp driven as we are this day and age.
Like Instagram, I think, had maybe not evencome out yet as an app.
So, you know, I I asked her if she rememberedher patients complaining about this.
She took a few days to get back to me, and shesaid, you know, Emily, I definitely had people
(06:16):
who would get distracted over things like bodyimage concerns, or I had men worried about
losing their erection, but she said this neverending chitter chatter in people's heads that
you're describing, she said, I I thought a lotabout it, and I just don't remember that being
a complaint, which kinda confirmed myhypothesis, which is that we are becoming
(06:38):
increasingly disembodied as a society.
I think thanks in large part to oursmartphones, and the degree to which we're
multitasking all day long.
You know, our devices allow us to listen to apodcast when we're out for a walk, or check
emails while we're sitting down for lunch, orread the news when we're stopped at a traffic
(07:01):
light.
So you cannot expect to go from split attentionall day long to the singular focus of sex.
You know, not just that, but our calendars arejust, I think, overly full with commitments and
obligations.
Our lives have just become a lot busier.
(07:22):
And, you know, so I just don't think it'srealistic to go from split attention all day
long, you know, or two people who are justbusier, kinda living like two ships passing in
the night, to then, you know, deciding on amoment's notice to reconnect and stay fully
present and engage with the body during sex.
And so, you know, this is the focus, I wouldsay, the sensuality chapter of the book.
(07:47):
It's kinda like how to Marie Kundo your sexlife and and really get back to the basics, but
in a really deep and meaningful way, and and,and so, yeah, that's kinda what that's about.
Well, and you you kinda started answering mysecond question, which my second question was
gonna be like, how common really is this,right, from a standpoint of like statistics and
(08:09):
that sort of thing?
And it sounds like what you're saying is like,hey, in talking to one of your mentors, like,
it's becoming, like, increasingly more commonthat this is happening over time based upon
things like multitasking smartphones, how muchwe are pulled in different ways, and ultimately
being pulled in different ways where I'm, like,I can put my mind on this, and I can put my
(08:29):
mind on this, and I can put my mind on this,ultimately means we're probably not putting our
mind on the sensations of our body.
Correct?
Exactly.
Precisely, and that's what embodiment is allabout.
It's a step beyond mindfulness.
You know, mindfulness is such a buzzword, andwe hear it all the time, and it's a great tool
for a number of things, and it's a wonderfulfirst step.
(08:51):
You know, mindfulness is all about noticing theintrusive thought, but then kind of detaching
from it emotionally and redirecting yourattention back into the body, but that sort of
this kind of back and forth of noticing thethought coming back into the body, noticing the
thought coming back into the body.
People who are truly embodied, especially whenthey're doing things like enjoying a meal or
(09:12):
out for a walk or having a really great sexualexperience, don't have those thoughts at all
because they are so fully present in the body.
I love one thing that embodiment expert MarkWalsh says, which is that mindfulness is kind
of like being aware of the body, but embodimentis being aware as the body.
(09:38):
So we The differentiation.
I love it.
It's just a simple change in proposition, butit kinda packs a major punch.
I mean, it's a huge shift.
And so, you know, people in my study or, like,in Peggy Kleinplatz's research as well, which
sort of, have a very large part kind ofinspired my work, you know, talks about how,
(09:59):
you know, people will say things like, youknow, my hand went there because that's what it
wanted to do.
You know?
So it's it's a really, to a large extent, kindadeeper level of presence with the body and with
the five senses, while at the same time kindaholding space for your partner's experience as
well.
You're really doing a good job of just likeleading me perfectly into the next question, so
(10:23):
I ask, which is wonderful.
I'm the first rodeo.
So
so Well, you've mentioned something in justwhat you said that you also said on page
eighteen and nineteen of your book, which isabout using things like movement and eating,
like, these types of things can be ways ofpracticing embodiment, that these can actually
be embodied types of activities.
(10:44):
So my question for you then is, like, how doyou, from a standpoint of actionable steps, you
know, people are listening to this and beinglike, wow, I'm definitely not embodied most of
the time, which frankly, I think is actually alot of humans, how do people begin to recognize
like, this is like truly, I am not in my body,like what what is that point of like, oh,
(11:07):
right, here's me not in my body, here's mecoming back to my body?
Yeah.
I think what I hear most often is is phraseslike, I just feel like we're going through the
motions, and you know, I'm physically present,but I'm not emotionally engaged.
So, you know, but even that that statement, I'mphysically present, I would argue, I guess,
because you know, if you're not engaged withthe body, yes, you may be there, but you're not
(11:31):
really present.
So, know, what I encourage people to do,especially if this is their issue, is to do
little things, especially on a day when they'rewanting to have better than average sex, single
task as much as possible.
It's, you know, it's kind of a, like, a littlemuscle we have to start flexing, you know.
(11:52):
I I write in the book, you cannot expect towalk to run a marathon if you've never walked
around the block.
So, you know, when you're having lunch, justsit and have lunch, or when you're having a
glass of wine in the evening, just kinda stopwhat you're doing for a second and just
actually taste the wine or the coffee or thetea or whatever it may be.
You know, people in my research, you know,talked about how they were the kind of people
(12:17):
to stop and smell the roses when they were outfor a walk, or you know, they would really
notice the sensation of the shower in themorning.
So, you know, as much as possible, practicethroughout the day being present in the body.
And then aside from that, there's lots oflittle ways to transition from the chaos of the
(12:39):
day to day into the body space that's requiredfor truly embodied sex.
So I'll tell people to do things like, youknow, take literally thirty seconds.
You don't need more than that just to do somedeep diaphragmatic breathing to calm the
nervous system, or, you know, when you and yourpartner start to engage, just elongate the time
(13:02):
that you're kind of touching and exploring eachother's bodies, so that you can make that
transition of the chaos of your day into kindof this sacred space that the two of you can
share.
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Now let's get back to our episode.
You know, a lot of people rush through sex, andoftentimes don't give it the time it needs to
(14:18):
get into a focused state.
So we know from research, like on focus andattention, that it takes people on average,
like twelve to fifteen minutes to get into ahighly focused state, and when that focus is
broken by something like a ping on the phone,it can take twenty five minutes to regain that
(14:39):
focus, and so, you know, there's a lot I thinkto be said about that, because, you know,
oftentimes people don't even have sex fortwelve to fifteen minutes.
And so if the goal is to work on embodiment,and presence, and to awaken the five senses,
you know, if I had to put everything down inkind of a a nugget piece of advice, it would be
(15:03):
to slow down, way down, you know, and talk toyour partner about that.
I I was just kinda scrolling on my Instagramthe other day, and this sex coach shared a post
that I thought was so great.
She said, you know, we think of arousal andkind of foreplay as this very you're kind of
trying to excite someone, like activate thenervous system, but she's like, what if we
(15:26):
think about it more as like a groundingexperience?
And I was like, yes.
Like, that is exactly what I'm talking abouthere.
You know, I personally noticed I needed that alot more after having kids, you know.
I needed to kind of have a a more kind ofpresent.
I'm like, can you just kind of massage me inlike a non sexual way, you know, for five, ten
(15:47):
minutes, so that I can make that transition,and so I think just when we're busy, and we're
working, and we have a million commitments, orespecially for people who have young kids at
home, you know, these are the kinds of stepsyou need to take to start to get back in touch
with the senses and wake them up again.
Yeah.
I've seen that so much in my work too aroundthe massage, the bath, the even co showering,
(16:12):
like, and just, like, being there, holding eachother, and just, like Yeah.
You know, just those types of activities.
Like, we don't count those those things asforeplay, but in some ways, like, that's, like,
the most pivotal foreplay around, like, gettinginside one's body, but having those practices
to actually do that before we actually go pastthere, because it's so easy to be just checked
out into the day, the task, the things youforgot to do at work without those those
(16:37):
situations, without that support.
Yeah.
So then moving on to one of our, you know,teasers for the episode here around because
this I found to be super interesting what yousaid on page 52, and you said that ninety nine
percent of sex therapists say that you shouldnot have goal oriented sex.
And I know, you know, a lot of the way thatthis a lot of the reason for this is that, hey,
(17:00):
we don't want to hyper focus on orgasm, and sothat's where a lot of this comes from is like,
hey, hyper focus on orgasm sometimes puts thepressure on, and that leads to oftentimes it
backfiring.
So, you know, you specifically in your booksay, like, not me, which I just, you know, I
love your your your call out on that.
Yeah.
(17:21):
But I wanna know why.
Why not you?
Why are
you a I bad know.
It's a bit it's a bit heretical.
But yes, you know, it's not bad advice per seto to not have goal oriented sex, and of
course, the idea is so that you you focus onthe kind of those moment by moment pleasures,
and there's so much to be discovered in themoment and and less in the outcome like the
(17:44):
orgasm or having you know, sustaining theerection or whatever it may be.
However, you know, the book, it the wholepremise of the book draws from flow state
science.
So just briefly, you know, flow state is adecades old term coined by American Hungarian
psychologist, Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
It describes the state of mind that we enterwhen we are so fully engaged, focused, and
(18:09):
absorbed in an activity that, you know, timeand space kinda disappear.
It has we have experienced a sense ofeffortlessness.
You know, think of a surfer who's at one withthe wave.
And when we look at flow state science, we seethat there are eight core components of flow.
You don't have to have them all at the sametime, but usually you have, you know, a few of
(18:31):
them at once, and and you can say, yeah, Ithink I was in a flow state.
One of those is clear goals with immediatefeedback as to whether or not you're reaching
those goals, and it's one of the mostpredictable ways to get into flow.
And I think it's best illustrated by, you know,think of like a musical band.
(18:52):
Right?
They have a goal.
They have a song that they are working togetherto perform, and they know right in the moment
whether someone is off key or makes a misstepwith their instrument that that goal maybe
isn't being reached optimally, and so they'llreadjust that they as a group can meet their
goal.
Same with a sports team, you know, they can'tstop and talk through every move when they're
(19:14):
out there on a field.
There's a cohesiveness, a synchrony that wesee, and again, when someone makes a misstep,
they're then working against the goal ofwinning the game.
So they talk at length about what their goalsare.
We can look at, you know, the BDSM and Kinkcommunity.
Tons of goal setting to create these scenesthat they have envisioned playing out in their
(19:37):
head, and a lot of conversation around thingslike boundaries and safe words and and that
sort of thing, and we know that people in theBDSM community experience flow state more
frequently than people who, you know, kind ofhave more vanilla sex.
Not that you have to have BDSM to experienceflow, and I write about this in the book, but
this idea of being clear about what you'rewanting from the experience, I think, is a bit
(20:03):
of a reframe that we can pull from occasionallyto, to add a bit more intention to what we're
doing.
Because when we are intentional about what wewant from the experience, we can work together
as a team to create the desired experience.
And sometimes it may be things like, hey, Iwanna see if I can have multiple orgasms, you
(20:27):
know, let's play with that today.
Or, you know, I sometimes it's more meaningmaking, like, god, I just want this, you know,
when we make love tonight, I want it to feelreally romantic, and tender, and soft.
And so everyone shows up with that intention,and when you're intentional about something,
you focus on it, and flow follows focus.
(20:51):
So anything we can do to help drive focus isgonna be more likely to get us into that flow
state.
Yeah.
It's so beautifully said.
I see that in my own relationship too aroundcertain things where it's like, oh, we're gonna
play with this tantric breath work practicetonight, for example, or like when you're
talking about like the different feelings, Ihave different playlists for the type of
(21:12):
intimacy that we want that night, whether it'sgonna be, you know, like, way more just, like,
sweet and that sort of thing versus just, like,way more intense.
Right?
That's gonna have a very different type ofsetting.
And so Yeah.
You will even set the stage and be like, oh,yeah.
This is the playlist we evoke that versus thisis the playlist we evoke that.
(21:33):
Yes.
That's a perfect example.
That's exactly what I'm talking Beautiful.
And then, so talk to us, because you talk aboutthis too in your book on page two forty seven
when you talk about the flow state.
You talk about transient hypofrontality.
So tell us about that.
What is that, and how does that influence flow?
Yeah.
Such a wonderful, like, brain phenomenon thathappens when we're in a flow state.
(21:56):
And, you know, I I like to talk about it incomparison to the honeymoon stage, you know,
because everyone is looking back to thehoneymoon stage as kind of the, you know, the
place that they're trying to get back to, butnobody in my research cited the honeymoon stage
as the best sex.
They all talked about sex that happened waylater, so that's one a huge myth that we have
(22:21):
to move away from.
And when we're looking at what's happeningneurochemically in the brain during the
honeymoon stage, you know, of course we have aton of dopamine, which is the reward chemical.
We've got the oxytocin from all the physicaltouch, which feels really good.
We've got norepinephrine, which kinda makes usfeel charged up.
But we experience a dip in serotonin, Andthat's a problem because what serotonin what
(22:47):
serotonin does is make us feel kind of calm,steady, and at ease.
You know, people who have low serotonin levelshave things like anxiety and OCD, and because
those levels dip in the honeymoon stage, why wekind of obsess over whether or not that new
person is gonna call us back, and we kind ofruminate over them, and it it kind of creates
anxiety early on.
(23:07):
When we're in a flow state, however, and andwe'll talk kind of about what that transient
hypofrontality is, we we get the dopamine, weget the oxytocin, you know, through the sex, we
get the norepinephrine, We also get endorphins,which can help us forget the pain that we're
in.
I actually talked to a lot of people in myresearch who were chronic pain sufferers, or
(23:30):
who had chronic illness, who actually turned tosex as a way to forget their pain.
We get anandamide, helps tighten focus, and weget a boost in serotonin.
So you actually get a much more potentneurochemical cocktail during flow state than
you do in the honeymoon phase, And, part ofwhat causes that is this transient hypo
(23:53):
mortality, so what that means is that theprefrontal cortex part of the brain, which is
where our executive function or higher ordercognitive thinking happens, things like, you
know, rationality, decision making, planning,kind of that that monkey brain, it goes quiet.
So when we're in a flow state, we're not reallyusing more of the brain as you might expect,
(24:16):
we're in fact using less of the brain.
And, when that part of the brain goes quiet,because it also kind of houses our personality
and sense of self, we're no longer selfconscious.
So the body image issues disappear, the, youknow, insecurity disappears, the self doubt,
(24:36):
the worry about quote unquote performance,which is a word my clients are not allowed to
use, all of that quiets down because of thisexperience.
So it's it's pretty fun.
Yeah.
It's so great.
And everybody, we are gonna wrap up today'sepisode, but I wanna let you know some Emily
has some amazing bonuses for you guys.
We're gonna talk about those.
(24:58):
We're gonna continue this conversation becausesome of what that some of what was just said,
it's really important to think about, okay,well, what is happening at that beginning of
the relationship?
And, you know, and there's vulnerability there.
And another thing Emily talks about in her bookis this concept of of vulnerability and where
that plays in at different points of therelationship and how that impacts sex and
(25:20):
intimacy and desire and all that.
And I also wanna cover with her in part two theconcept of attunement because she says that
this is one of the most important parts of sexis attunement, and I could not agree more.
So we're gonna talk about that and so much morein part two.
So I'm gonna link below this video how youaccess part two.
(25:41):
But before we do that, I wanna make sureeverybody knows how to get ahold of your book,
your bonuses, and everything you have for ustoday.
So can you share Thank
you so much.
Yes.
So you if you purchase the book, you can visitmy website, which is emilyjimiya.com, and
there's an online form you fill out there, andyou get access to hundreds of dollars worth of
(26:01):
free bonuses with qualified book bookpurchases.
So I have things like, you know, access to mymaster class, the intimacy discussion deck.
I have a thirty day intimacy challenge, apleasure playlist.
You know, we were talking about music.
So all, like, tons of goodies are there for youto check out.
So it's a really good deal.
And then if you wanna follow along for moredaily tips, you can follow me across all the
(26:24):
socials at d r emily jamia.
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much, and thank you forbeing here.
And everybody, it's been a pleasure as alwaysto have you here with me.
Please do subscribe and share this with yourfriends.
We'll see you again soon.
Ciao for now.
Thank you for listening to the libido lounge.
Please don't keep me a secret.
(26:45):
Please share this with your friends.
You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, aswell as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.
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