September 23, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, Estes Hughes, Economic Development Partnership of Alabama, joins us to discuss FuelAL, the state's innovative program designed to retain college students after graduation. Customized programs offer students professional development, social opportunities and community service, plus expose them to diverse cities and industries across the state.
At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs.
Be sure to subscribe so you’re alerted when we release new episodes. Learn more about us at LivabilityMedia.com and follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email host Amanda Ellis at aellis@livability.com.
Inside America’s Best Cities is produced by SpeakEasy Productions.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Estes [00:00:10]:
As a student, it's really easy to kind of stay in your own little bubble. And part of our job is to make sure we're, we're getting in those bubbles. We're creating student ambassadors who have these great experiences and go tell their friends, because we don't, we don't want people to not know what they might be able to have and what they might be able to take advantage of here. (00:00):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:00:32]: That's the voice of Estes Hughes, Vice President of Innovation at the Economic Development Partnership of Alabama. We're chatting about the FuelAL program designed to retain college students and young people in the state through summer and school year programming. Showing off what's awesome about Alabama. You can learn more about this podcast at livabilitymedia.com and with that, let's jump in. Estes, welcome to Inside America's Best Cities. Thanks so much for taking some time today. We're excited to hear more about the Fuel AL program. Can you start by just giving us a high level overview about some of what you all are doing and then we're going to dive in a little bit deeper? (00:01):
undefined
Estes [00:01:18]: Sure. So FUEL started as a program really focused squarely on student retention. So several years ago, we had a lot of employers and other entities around the state saying, you know, Alabama does a really great job of attracting students for their college education. Our flagship universities, University of Alabama, is majority out of state students. So we do a great job of bringing people here for a great college education. And we want to do just as great a job retaining those students after they graduate and keeping them here to start their career, to start their lives, start their families, and really build Alabama's economic strength and prosperity. So we started that with research and that really gave us a good foundation to understand why students were leaving, what they wanted upon graduation, what they were looking for in a community or in a career, and then build programs based on that foundation of knowledge. And we were influenced by the fact that students aren't looking at a state. You know, people aren't like, I'm gonna move to Alaska or Alabama, like choosing between those two places. They're thinking about cities or towns or communities and, and that's how they're making decisions. And so it's, you know, there's a job opportunity in Chattanooga where you are, there's a job opportunity in Birmingham. And we are competing with, you know, a lot of the cities that you might expect around the Southeast. Students are looking at Nashville, students are looking at Atlanta, students are looking here in Alabama at Huntsville, Mobile, Birmingham. We're kind of Our top hits and that key insight of we're looking for communities, the job opportunity is obviously a huge piece of the equation. But what else is happening in my lifestyle and how do I understand kind of the value proposition that a community is making to me? And it's not Alabama that's making that value proposition. It's the individual place where someone might be living that kind of has its local identity. So with that in mind, we set up a few different programs. One is our community programs. Obviously, given that insight, we deploy money back into different communities around the state so that the people on the ground who have the relationships and the knowledge can design programs for themselves that make sense to the place where they are. So that is really, really grounded in service, professional development and social opportunities for students. And that's conducted over each summer. And communities, you know, get really into it and have a really individualized kind of localized program that they design. So that really gets to expose some of those most engaged students to a place where maybe they aren't familiar, maybe where they haven't spent a lot of time, but ideally has job opportunities in a field that they are really interested in or kind of a lifestyle that is really compelling for a young adult that they've never really known about. Yeah, I do want to mention, before I forget, so two other programs that we really work on. One is the HBCU Innovation Internship. We recognized that all these startups that we work with, all these small, fast growing businesses, need talent, struggle to afford the talent that they need, and they really want to be part of building the community's workforce in this innovative economy. On the other side, of course, we're looking for students to stay and they need opportunities and kind of that, that visible pathway of where can I go, what can I do upon graduation? And so we wanted to build those two things together so we actually match some incredible HBCU talent, often that's quite technical with these fast growing companies or the incubators and accelerators that support those companies and offer that exposure to the innovation economy. Oftentimes really technical work and just really great work based experience that opens doors here in Alabama to things that again students just don't know is here. And then the last piece, which is brand new, is school year programming. And that really extends the community programs that I already talked about through the summer, extends that into the school year. And we've partnered with Alabama to do that and starting a partnership with Auburn to do that as well. (00:02):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:06:20]: So the HBCU program you were talking about is that mostly with schools in the state or not necessarily? (00:03):
undefined
Estes [00:06:26]: No, it is all Alabama HBCUs. Alabama actually has. Yes, Alabama has more HBCUs than any other state in the country. So it's a talent pool that's like, you know, we, we've got to take advantage of this. We've got to leverage this. (00:04):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:06:41]: Yeah, no, I love what you're doing because you know something that we get asked a lot at livability and I do a lot of, you know, traveling and speaking about workforce issues and why people are where they are and how we pick, you know, where we to live, all of that good stuff. And people are always asking, how do we, how do we retain young people? How do we retain our graduates? And it's like, well, if you don't have any opportunities for them, you're not orienting them. They're just going to like go where they can go or where they can figure out on their own. Right. But where you build those early networks and get that early experience can really, really play a role in your trajectory long term. So, love what you're doing when you think about it in that light. (00:05):
undefined
Estes [00:07:18]: Oh, well. And I mean, we've taken. There are so many great examples of people doing great programs. We took a lot of inspiration from Campus Philly. There, there's amazing stuff happening around the country, around, you know, how do we think about showing what we have as a community to students who are a good fit for that, you know, there, there are going to be places that are a better fit for, you know, Susie Q over here, but for, for the person who's interested in defense, there are very few places in this country that are better than Huntsville, Alabama. For a student who's interested in a software startup in the south with kind of a, not nine to nine, six days a week work culture like Birmingham might be an excellent fit. (00:06):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:08:09]: Yeah, no, it's awesome. I do think we have a lot of advantages just in our region right now because we've got so many, you know, fast growing cities that are relatively affordable and that, you know, have seen massive growth and are continuing to, you know, since COVID So like, that's good. But of course you want them in your places versus others. But there's lots of good ones to pick from that, you know, have a lot of what, what you're saying. So I think our region also has a lot of those advantages. (00:07):
undefined
Estes [00:08:34]: I totally agree. I think that we need to think more regionally too. Like the Southeast is the fastest growing part of the country. How do we work for everybody's benefit? How do we make it a rising tide? You know, a rising tide floats all boats? Lifts all boats? Thank you. Rising tide lifts all boats. I think that that strategy makes a lot of sense for the Southeast. (00:08):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:09:00]: And also knowing that a lot of times when people are making relocation decisions, they're more likely to stay sort of within the same region or even within a few hours of where they are versus, you know, going clear to the other side of the country. So that, that kind of fits with your point too. So I know you were… The summer program is kind of what caught my eye about doing this interview. And I know you mentioned that that was going to be moving into more of a year round type of format. So that is the… The community is doing some of their own programming. Right? And then the summits you mentioned that are more about exposing the group to some different areas of the state? (00:09):
undefined
Estes [00:09:33]: Yes. And, and it's interesting, like, we kind of think about the year round as a different piece of programming because that's with the schools. Right. Those are the places that have a hold on these students during kind of more of the calendar year. And then we switch to the community base offering that programming during the summers. (00:10):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:09:52]: Gotcha. (00:11):
undefined
Estes [00:09:53]: So that's… We kind of think about those differently, even though obviously the goal is the same. (00:12):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:09:59]: That makes sense. So with communities playing more of that role in the summer, how does that work? Like, are they kind of designing what makes sense, where they are for their people? So they've got some autonomy there, under your kind of branding? (00:13):
undefined
Estes [00:10:11]: We really ground it in that service, professional development and social kind of three pronged strategy so that students are connecting to people and kind of communities in a deep way. It's not, you know, okay, there's a great happy hour here. Like, that's an important peace and that's often how you meet peers. But we also want to connect them to mentors. We also want to connect them to organizations that they might really care about that create ties. Our whole goal is like, how do we create more tethers and ties to these students so that they want to stay. They have the personal relationship with the person that might have a job. Yeah. You have the church that, you know, maybe you're really interested in their service project or the humane society where you want to volunteer as well as, of course, you know, the bars and restaurants and fun activities that most young adults are going to want to partake in in any community where they land. (00:14):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:11:16]: So whichever, whether it's the summer program or the year round program, they're going to be participating in a range of things, which might include some happy hours, some group mentoring, some service projects, and then potentially some exposure to other communities too. So they're getting a little bit of all of that? (00:15):
undefined
Estes [00:11:31]: Mm. We really want to make sure. Obviously that community piece is kind of tailored to what that community offers. But, you know, you're an intern in Auburn, Alabama. You're a student in Tuscaloosa. Maybe you have never been to Florence, maybe you've never been to Mobile. So those summits offer a little bit of that wider exposure and allow us to offer a lot of these students kind of a really white glove, wonderful experience. We stay in nice hotels we go to on really fun activities. People did, you know, nighttime kayaking in the bay. Like, it's really fun and we, you know, spice it up with really intensive opportunities to meet high level people in specific industries. We had a panel in Birmingham with a bunch of startup leaders who were, you know, largely, I think every single one was under 35. So they feel more like peers, but they're able to give insight to why they chose the city where they're based, what they're doing. And then they are also job providers. So they're like, we are hiring people like you, and I look like you and you can be me in the future. So it's, it's a compelling value proposition. (00:16):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:12:57]: So for those weekends, like their expenses are all covered for those to participate? Okay. Gosh, I know every time I hear about some of this stuff, I'm like, I wish more of this would have been a thing like when I was in college. (00:17):
undefined
Estes [00:13:09]: Same, same. I mean, if it did exist, I certainly did not know about it. (00:18):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:13:14]: I'm not sure it did. I think a lot has happened in the last, like five years even. (00:19):
undefined
Estes [00:13:19]: Well, and I think also. But like, part of it is, you know, I do think about this, like, what was going on that I didn't know about. And so part of our job is to tell that story well and get the word out there. And I think, you know, as a student, it's really easy to kind of stay in your own little bubble. And, and part of our job is to make sure we're, we're getting in those bubbles. We're creating student ambassadors who have these great experiences and go tell their friends, because we don't, we don't want people to not know what, what they might be able to have and what they might be able to take advantage of here. (00:20):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:13:54]: Yeah, well, that was definitely going to be. One of my questions is like, yeah, what does the PR and recruitment process for it look like with students, is that more college-based? Employers? Both? All of it probably. (00:21):
undefined
Estes [00:14:04]: Yes. So for hbcu, it's very school based. The best people to get those interns are the professors or the career counselor who, you know, knows those students intimately and is like, yes, this person really wants to go work with a small, fast growing company that is not everyone's gig and they're going to know those specific people. For the community programming and the summits, it's a little bit, you know, kind of wider of a funnel. So the communities get the word out a lot themselves through their own lists, their own networks, through school connections, through their local chambers. It's often the chamber who actually receives the grant money from us to conduct their own programming. We spread it out through our school and chamber and you know, all, every economic development connection that we have around the state. And for summits, we pull directly from those who have already engaged in their community programming. So we want to touch, we want to kind of deepen our relationships with those students who have already indicated this is something that's interesting to them and therefore that indicates some interest in staying in Alabama. So they're a good pool to start from. (00:22):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:15:27]: I mean, I could see especially for the, the more general summer programming like that reaching a point where you have a wait list or maybe it already has? (00:23):
undefined
Estes [00:15:34]: Oh my gosh. Yes. We, we take buses and you know, we're covering all these expenses and we're a nonprofit. Yeah. So our, our space is limited for those trips. And I think for our first summit this summer in Huntsville, we were choosing, you know, like 25, 30 students from a pool of 250. (00:24):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:16:00]: Wow. (00:25):
undefined
Estes [00:16:01]: So it's, it gets really competitive. (00:26):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:16:04]: So how do you choose? Like, what are the… do you go by like, most in demand career interests? (00:27):
undefined
Estes [00:16:10]: We call it a draft. (00:28):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:16:11]: Okay. (00:29):
undefined
Estes [00:16:12]: We have like, you know, the summit draft and we look at a few things. Obviously it's, you know, have you really been participating and engaging with your local community programming also, you know, if we're industry focused in Birmingham, we were looking a lot at technology. Like, who's working in technology? Is your major related to that? Are you in computer sciences? Are you interning somewhere that has a strong focus in that? We also look at what employers have really engaged with us or other of our programming, and those employers kind of slide up the scale a little bit because we know that their students know about this programming, really know the value there, are going to take it seriously and really be a, be a strong addition to the group. And then beyond that, it's more of an art than a science. We're trying to look at, and I mean, we are like looking at their linkedins, looking at their, all the details they provided in their application, whatever we can find on social media, whatever is out there about their school performance. And we're trying to create a group that makes sense, that has some diversity, but also a focus in that industry and has in state kids, out of state kids, a wide range of schools participating, a wide range of employers participating, a wide ranges, you know, of community of fuel communities participating. We have nine communities that receive these grants and we want to make sure that every single one gets some representation at these summits. So it's, it's an art. We do our best. (00:30):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:17:55]: These are probably usually like juniors and seniors. Right? (00:31):
undefined
Estes [00:17:59]: We do have the occasional sophomore and freshmen, but yeah, it leans towards older students. (00:32):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:18:04]: Yeah. I mean, what are you looking at going forward, knowing that that demand is there? I mean, would you like to expand it to accommodate more or? (00:33):
undefined
Estes [00:18:13]: We, we'd love to. You know, funding is of course a constraint. Timing over the summer is quite a constraint as well. You want them to have a few weeks under their belt of their internship. Right. Like you be like, great, we're taking you away on Friday of your first week of your internship. (00:34):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:18:33]: True. Yeah. (00:35):
undefined
Estes [00:18:33]: And you haven't participated in any of your activities in your local community. (00:36):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:18:37]: No, that's true. Because summer really might just be like June and July by the time you get down to it. Yeah. (00:37):
undefined
Estes [00:18:43]: So. So we try to have one per month and like, you know, you're kind of squeezing it in. So time wise, I don't know that there's too much opportunity to expand, but we'd love to continue growing both like in depth and breadth. So I think the school year opportunity is really there for on both ends. We can deepen the relationships with students who participate in the summers, but we can also really broaden that to more kids. They, a lot of these communities, you know, really have the support and the staff buy in to execute incredibly well. The schools do too. And in Tuscaloosa, it was called Anchor Alabama. And they did a fantastic job creating programming that made sense throughout the year and that really let students lead and choose what programming they wanted to see and also exposed them to some other places. So expanding that to Auburn really continues that breadth and depth. And then the HBCU internship has a huge opportunity to grow. We see students coming back again and again because the quality of the work was so great. And employers coming back and referring us to other companies that they think should be a part of it. So there's opportunity for growth. But those summits are one of the harder nuts to crack in terms of how do we grow that program. (00:38):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:20:16]: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What success measurements are you normally using for this? I mean, I know you talked about just the sheer demand on those, which I think is a good one. But as far as what your actual goal is, of course, which is retaining people for a longer time period. (00:39):
undefined
Estes [00:20:32]: Yeah, of course. So a lot of these are pretty new. So we don't have as much of the, you know, okay, what's the ratio of students participating versus those who have stayed for five years? Like that doesn't even exist yet. None of our students have been a part of this and are still in Alabama five years later. Not that much time has passed. Yeah, but what we are seeing as kind of leading indicators toward that eventual metric for hbcu, as I mentioned, like, students are coming back semester after semester looking for these work based opportunities. And these are kids who have had internships with Amazon and Google and, you know, you name it, and they have an internship with Analytical AI here in Birmingham. And it's so great that they come back again and want that type of experience. So that's a huge indicator for us. Same on the other side with the employers, of course. What. One of the best things we can see is like, you were such a great intern that we want to hire you. Yeah, I love that. As far as other metrics, in case you, you know, are curious, on the community programming side, there's certainly that demand is a huge indicator for us of how successful we are. But it's, it's not just that because a lot of times, you know, what you want to see is particularly for students, it's like, oh, yeah, this looks great. I'm going to sign up for all these things at the beginning of the summer. And then you don't actually follow through. Yeah, so what, what is the participation at like the end of the summer? Have people continued being a part? Have people continued engaging? And we've seen really great engagement rates across several of the communities. Tuscaloosa has done an unbelievable job being really intentional about. They interview every single student that applies and they only accept, you know, those who do well in the interviews and really indicate that level of interest. That's like, you're, you're with us, you're with us for the summer, you're going to participate and you care yeah, that's interesting. (00:40):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:22:43]: Yeah. Because you're right. Everyone's always all into everything at the beginning and sometimes that fades out a little bit. (00:41):
undefined
Estes [00:22:49]: Yeah, it's not. The August is not the same as the May. (00:42):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:22:54]: No, it's definitely not. Oh, my goodness. Well, I think we've covered a lot here. Is there anything else you would want to add that we haven't talked about? (00:43):
undefined
Estes [00:23:04]: One thing that you and I had talked about before we hopped on the call was kind of the broader strategy of Innovate. And Innovate Alabama is a public private partnership here in Alabama with a very forward looking strategy of how do you create this kind of innovation economy? And the edpa, of course, is just kind of all arrows pointed to Alabama's future economic prosperity. And we just really believe that talent is a big part of that equation and both entities are rowing the same direction on that. And so we. These programs exist with the support of Innovate Alabama. And we have seen such strong alignment between, you know, corporate entities in Alabama that are looking to build a really strong pipeline and the public sector that's saying we need, you know, we are investing these state dollars in these universities and in these communities around student attraction and placemaking and economic development. Like, we need this talent to stay here. We're educating this talent. Let's keep them here. And then of course, the economic development organizations like ours trying to implement those strategies and that thought leadership and really make it happen. And so we're excited to just be a part of that work. (00:44):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:24:24]: That's awesome. So do you typically get much like, like you're talking about running these weekend programs and things? Is that like, hands on with you or are there other. Okay, so you actually are getting to interact with the students and like do all the things? (00:45):
undefined
Estes [00:24:36]: Yes, absolutely. You know, we are an incredibly small team, so we are interacting with all the HBCU students from those who apply all the way through, you know, interview day, those who intern, those who graduate through the summer programming, all the communities that receive grants, all the students that go through that program, and those who go through the summit. So we meet a lot of college kids. Yeah. (00:46):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:25:05]: What are your thoughts on? I mean, I don't know. I can't say that these days I really get to interact with a ton of like that age cohort. So what are your thoughts on? I know there's so much out there about, you know, like the push and pull between like different generations. What have you seen that you feel like is like, wow, these, this kind of generation is so good at this thing that they don't get enough credit for or what are like some things that you do have to coach them on as a whole? (00:47):
undefined
Estes [00:25:30]: I'm glad you brought that up because I feel like they get such a bad reputation and we have just seen a, an unbelievable amount of talent. Like, you look at these kids resumes and you're like, I never would have even made it into college if I were applying now. Like, I would not have a job if I were flying against these kids now. Yeah, but, but one thing that has always struck me is the level of alignment and meaning that they are looking for in the place where they're working. You know, they want to believe in what the organization they're working for is doing and they want that to be aligned with their values. And if that is true, if those things are kind of in sync and growing in the same direction, they will just leverage that amazing amount of talent and work really hard. They are a lot more asynchronous than I think you and I are familiar with and that certainly can create its challenges. It's like, no, no, I need you to email me and tell me what you are doing. I, I know that that doesn't feel native to you, but I need you to make it incredibly, like obvious and visible. And we talk to them about that all the time. Like, you can't just, you know, operate in the background and expect that everyone knows what you're doing. You have to put it out there and make it really easy for your employer to see. But once they do, and once they like feel connected to the mission and the meaning of what they're doing in their work, there's an amazing amount of talent there. (00:48):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:27:12]: Yeah, that's amazing. So you're based in Birmingham, right, running this program? So what is, we always ask our guests, you know, where are you based and what is a bucket list item that someone visiting should be sure to do if they were to visit and maybe something like a little bit that would be like the first thing they would find if they were googling around. (00:49):
undefined
Estes [00:27:32]: Okay, this is hard. So I really love food, but like that is kind of the first thing that someone visiting Birmingham knows to do is like eat everything you can because the food here is so good and you know, we have tons of James Beard award winning restaurants and bars and you know, you're a stone's throw away like anywhere you go. Um, so that, that is amazing. But one of the things that I just don't think gets a lot of recognition in the Birmingham metro area not like, you know, Birmingham and then all of the suburbs around Birmingham, but there are a ton of parks with really beautiful underrated resources. So Oak Mountain State park is fabulous. You know, access to water, there are people stand up, paddle boarding. I like to mountain bike and hike and they're really great trails. You know, the outdoors here are just really underrated and people who, who come to Birmingham don't even know that. Like, you know, it's actually pretty hilly. There's, you know, there's Mountain Brook, which is one of the suburbs, and it's like a mountain. Yeah, it's really pretty out there. You know, it's beautiful. And the, the topography makes for great biking and hiking and all sorts of outdoor activities that I really just think people don't know enough about. (00:50):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:29:02]: Yeah, I know. I loved, I mentioned I'd been on a press trip there about a year ago and I really loved the sloss furnaces. That was so cool. (00:51):
undefined
Estes [00:29:09]: So cool. And that's why we're called the Magic City, is because all the ingredients, all the major ingredients for steel were here. And we're one of the only places in the world with that kind of makeup. And so that's, that's why this city is what it is and that's why it grew so fast. (00:52):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:29:28]: Loved that. Well, thank you so much. I think our listeners will get a lot out of this one. Love what you're doing, love the statewide approach, and I think it'll be a great case study. (00:53):
undefined
Estes [00:29:37]: Thanks so much. It was so nice to speak with you. Thanks for having us. (00:54):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:29:46]: Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast, where we take you Inside America's Best Cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate, and review this show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at aellis@livability.com. Until next time, from Livability, I'm Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America's most promising places. (00:55):
undefined
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:00:32]: That's the voice of Estes Hughes, Vice President of Innovation at the Economic Development Partnership of Alabama. We're chatting about the FuelAL program designed to retain college students and young people in the state through summer and school year programming. Showing off what's awesome about Alabama. You can learn more about this podcast at livabilitymedia.com and with that, let's jump in. Estes, welcome to Inside America's Best Cities. Thanks so much for taking some time today. We're excited to hear more about the Fuel AL program. Can you start by just giving us a high level overview about some of what you all are doing and then we're going to dive in a little bit deeper? (00:01):
undefined
Estes [00:01:18]: Sure. So FUEL started as a program really focused squarely on student retention. So several years ago, we had a lot of employers and other entities around the state saying, you know, Alabama does a really great job of attracting students for their college education. Our flagship universities, University of Alabama, is majority out of state students. So we do a great job of bringing people here for a great college education. And we want to do just as great a job retaining those students after they graduate and keeping them here to start their career, to start their lives, start their families, and really build Alabama's economic strength and prosperity. So we started that with research and that really gave us a good foundation to understand why students were leaving, what they wanted upon graduation, what they were looking for in a community or in a career, and then build programs based on that foundation of knowledge. And we were influenced by the fact that students aren't looking at a state. You know, people aren't like, I'm gonna move to Alaska or Alabama, like choosing between those two places. They're thinking about cities or towns or communities and, and that's how they're making decisions. And so it's, you know, there's a job opportunity in Chattanooga where you are, there's a job opportunity in Birmingham. And we are competing with, you know, a lot of the cities that you might expect around the Southeast. Students are looking at Nashville, students are looking at Atlanta, students are looking here in Alabama at Huntsville, Mobile, Birmingham. We're kind of Our top hits and that key insight of we're looking for communities, the job opportunity is obviously a huge piece of the equation. But what else is happening in my lifestyle and how do I understand kind of the value proposition that a community is making to me? And it's not Alabama that's making that value proposition. It's the individual place where someone might be living that kind of has its local identity. So with that in mind, we set up a few different programs. One is our community programs. Obviously, given that insight, we deploy money back into different communities around the state so that the people on the ground who have the relationships and the knowledge can design programs for themselves that make sense to the place where they are. So that is really, really grounded in service, professional development and social opportunities for students. And that's conducted over each summer. And communities, you know, get really into it and have a really individualized kind of localized program that they design. So that really gets to expose some of those most engaged students to a place where maybe they aren't familiar, maybe where they haven't spent a lot of time, but ideally has job opportunities in a field that they are really interested in or kind of a lifestyle that is really compelling for a young adult that they've never really known about. Yeah, I do want to mention, before I forget, so two other programs that we really work on. One is the HBCU Innovation Internship. We recognized that all these startups that we work with, all these small, fast growing businesses, need talent, struggle to afford the talent that they need, and they really want to be part of building the community's workforce in this innovative economy. On the other side, of course, we're looking for students to stay and they need opportunities and kind of that, that visible pathway of where can I go, what can I do upon graduation? And so we wanted to build those two things together so we actually match some incredible HBCU talent, often that's quite technical with these fast growing companies or the incubators and accelerators that support those companies and offer that exposure to the innovation economy. Oftentimes really technical work and just really great work based experience that opens doors here in Alabama to things that again students just don't know is here. And then the last piece, which is brand new, is school year programming. And that really extends the community programs that I already talked about through the summer, extends that into the school year. And we've partnered with Alabama to do that and starting a partnership with Auburn to do that as well. (00:02):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:06:20]: So the HBCU program you were talking about is that mostly with schools in the state or not necessarily? (00:03):
undefined
Estes [00:06:26]: No, it is all Alabama HBCUs. Alabama actually has. Yes, Alabama has more HBCUs than any other state in the country. So it's a talent pool that's like, you know, we, we've got to take advantage of this. We've got to leverage this. (00:04):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:06:41]: Yeah, no, I love what you're doing because you know something that we get asked a lot at livability and I do a lot of, you know, traveling and speaking about workforce issues and why people are where they are and how we pick, you know, where we to live, all of that good stuff. And people are always asking, how do we, how do we retain young people? How do we retain our graduates? And it's like, well, if you don't have any opportunities for them, you're not orienting them. They're just going to like go where they can go or where they can figure out on their own. Right. But where you build those early networks and get that early experience can really, really play a role in your trajectory long term. So, love what you're doing when you think about it in that light. (00:05):
undefined
Estes [00:07:18]: Oh, well. And I mean, we've taken. There are so many great examples of people doing great programs. We took a lot of inspiration from Campus Philly. There, there's amazing stuff happening around the country, around, you know, how do we think about showing what we have as a community to students who are a good fit for that, you know, there, there are going to be places that are a better fit for, you know, Susie Q over here, but for, for the person who's interested in defense, there are very few places in this country that are better than Huntsville, Alabama. For a student who's interested in a software startup in the south with kind of a, not nine to nine, six days a week work culture like Birmingham might be an excellent fit. (00:06):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:08:09]: Yeah, no, it's awesome. I do think we have a lot of advantages just in our region right now because we've got so many, you know, fast growing cities that are relatively affordable and that, you know, have seen massive growth and are continuing to, you know, since COVID So like, that's good. But of course you want them in your places versus others. But there's lots of good ones to pick from that, you know, have a lot of what, what you're saying. So I think our region also has a lot of those advantages. (00:07):
undefined
Estes [00:08:34]: I totally agree. I think that we need to think more regionally too. Like the Southeast is the fastest growing part of the country. How do we work for everybody's benefit? How do we make it a rising tide? You know, a rising tide floats all boats? Lifts all boats? Thank you. Rising tide lifts all boats. I think that that strategy makes a lot of sense for the Southeast. (00:08):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:09:00]: And also knowing that a lot of times when people are making relocation decisions, they're more likely to stay sort of within the same region or even within a few hours of where they are versus, you know, going clear to the other side of the country. So that, that kind of fits with your point too. So I know you were… The summer program is kind of what caught my eye about doing this interview. And I know you mentioned that that was going to be moving into more of a year round type of format. So that is the… The community is doing some of their own programming. Right? And then the summits you mentioned that are more about exposing the group to some different areas of the state? (00:09):
undefined
Estes [00:09:33]: Yes. And, and it's interesting, like, we kind of think about the year round as a different piece of programming because that's with the schools. Right. Those are the places that have a hold on these students during kind of more of the calendar year. And then we switch to the community base offering that programming during the summers. (00:10):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:09:52]: Gotcha. (00:11):
undefined
Estes [00:09:53]: So that's… We kind of think about those differently, even though obviously the goal is the same. (00:12):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:09:59]: That makes sense. So with communities playing more of that role in the summer, how does that work? Like, are they kind of designing what makes sense, where they are for their people? So they've got some autonomy there, under your kind of branding? (00:13):
undefined
Estes [00:10:11]: We really ground it in that service, professional development and social kind of three pronged strategy so that students are connecting to people and kind of communities in a deep way. It's not, you know, okay, there's a great happy hour here. Like, that's an important peace and that's often how you meet peers. But we also want to connect them to mentors. We also want to connect them to organizations that they might really care about that create ties. Our whole goal is like, how do we create more tethers and ties to these students so that they want to stay. They have the personal relationship with the person that might have a job. Yeah. You have the church that, you know, maybe you're really interested in their service project or the humane society where you want to volunteer as well as, of course, you know, the bars and restaurants and fun activities that most young adults are going to want to partake in in any community where they land. (00:14):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:11:16]: So whichever, whether it's the summer program or the year round program, they're going to be participating in a range of things, which might include some happy hours, some group mentoring, some service projects, and then potentially some exposure to other communities too. So they're getting a little bit of all of that? (00:15):
undefined
Estes [00:11:31]: Mm. We really want to make sure. Obviously that community piece is kind of tailored to what that community offers. But, you know, you're an intern in Auburn, Alabama. You're a student in Tuscaloosa. Maybe you have never been to Florence, maybe you've never been to Mobile. So those summits offer a little bit of that wider exposure and allow us to offer a lot of these students kind of a really white glove, wonderful experience. We stay in nice hotels we go to on really fun activities. People did, you know, nighttime kayaking in the bay. Like, it's really fun and we, you know, spice it up with really intensive opportunities to meet high level people in specific industries. We had a panel in Birmingham with a bunch of startup leaders who were, you know, largely, I think every single one was under 35. So they feel more like peers, but they're able to give insight to why they chose the city where they're based, what they're doing. And then they are also job providers. So they're like, we are hiring people like you, and I look like you and you can be me in the future. So it's, it's a compelling value proposition. (00:16):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:12:57]: So for those weekends, like their expenses are all covered for those to participate? Okay. Gosh, I know every time I hear about some of this stuff, I'm like, I wish more of this would have been a thing like when I was in college. (00:17):
undefined
Estes [00:13:09]: Same, same. I mean, if it did exist, I certainly did not know about it. (00:18):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:13:14]: I'm not sure it did. I think a lot has happened in the last, like five years even. (00:19):
undefined
Estes [00:13:19]: Well, and I think also. But like, part of it is, you know, I do think about this, like, what was going on that I didn't know about. And so part of our job is to tell that story well and get the word out there. And I think, you know, as a student, it's really easy to kind of stay in your own little bubble. And, and part of our job is to make sure we're, we're getting in those bubbles. We're creating student ambassadors who have these great experiences and go tell their friends, because we don't, we don't want people to not know what, what they might be able to have and what they might be able to take advantage of here. (00:20):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:13:54]: Yeah, well, that was definitely going to be. One of my questions is like, yeah, what does the PR and recruitment process for it look like with students, is that more college-based? Employers? Both? All of it probably. (00:21):
undefined
Estes [00:14:04]: Yes. So for hbcu, it's very school based. The best people to get those interns are the professors or the career counselor who, you know, knows those students intimately and is like, yes, this person really wants to go work with a small, fast growing company that is not everyone's gig and they're going to know those specific people. For the community programming and the summits, it's a little bit, you know, kind of wider of a funnel. So the communities get the word out a lot themselves through their own lists, their own networks, through school connections, through their local chambers. It's often the chamber who actually receives the grant money from us to conduct their own programming. We spread it out through our school and chamber and you know, all, every economic development connection that we have around the state. And for summits, we pull directly from those who have already engaged in their community programming. So we want to touch, we want to kind of deepen our relationships with those students who have already indicated this is something that's interesting to them and therefore that indicates some interest in staying in Alabama. So they're a good pool to start from. (00:22):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:15:27]: I mean, I could see especially for the, the more general summer programming like that reaching a point where you have a wait list or maybe it already has? (00:23):
undefined
Estes [00:15:34]: Oh my gosh. Yes. We, we take buses and you know, we're covering all these expenses and we're a nonprofit. Yeah. So our, our space is limited for those trips. And I think for our first summit this summer in Huntsville, we were choosing, you know, like 25, 30 students from a pool of 250. (00:24):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:16:00]: Wow. (00:25):
undefined
Estes [00:16:01]: So it's, it gets really competitive. (00:26):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:16:04]: So how do you choose? Like, what are the… do you go by like, most in demand career interests? (00:27):
undefined
Estes [00:16:10]: We call it a draft. (00:28):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:16:11]: Okay. (00:29):
undefined
Estes [00:16:12]: We have like, you know, the summit draft and we look at a few things. Obviously it's, you know, have you really been participating and engaging with your local community programming also, you know, if we're industry focused in Birmingham, we were looking a lot at technology. Like, who's working in technology? Is your major related to that? Are you in computer sciences? Are you interning somewhere that has a strong focus in that? We also look at what employers have really engaged with us or other of our programming, and those employers kind of slide up the scale a little bit because we know that their students know about this programming, really know the value there, are going to take it seriously and really be a, be a strong addition to the group. And then beyond that, it's more of an art than a science. We're trying to look at, and I mean, we are like looking at their linkedins, looking at their, all the details they provided in their application, whatever we can find on social media, whatever is out there about their school performance. And we're trying to create a group that makes sense, that has some diversity, but also a focus in that industry and has in state kids, out of state kids, a wide range of schools participating, a wide range of employers participating, a wide ranges, you know, of community of fuel communities participating. We have nine communities that receive these grants and we want to make sure that every single one gets some representation at these summits. So it's, it's an art. We do our best. (00:30):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:17:55]: These are probably usually like juniors and seniors. Right? (00:31):
undefined
Estes [00:17:59]: We do have the occasional sophomore and freshmen, but yeah, it leans towards older students. (00:32):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:18:04]: Yeah. I mean, what are you looking at going forward, knowing that that demand is there? I mean, would you like to expand it to accommodate more or? (00:33):
undefined
Estes [00:18:13]: We, we'd love to. You know, funding is of course a constraint. Timing over the summer is quite a constraint as well. You want them to have a few weeks under their belt of their internship. Right. Like you be like, great, we're taking you away on Friday of your first week of your internship. (00:34):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:18:33]: True. Yeah. (00:35):
undefined
Estes [00:18:33]: And you haven't participated in any of your activities in your local community. (00:36):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:18:37]: No, that's true. Because summer really might just be like June and July by the time you get down to it. Yeah. (00:37):
undefined
Estes [00:18:43]: So. So we try to have one per month and like, you know, you're kind of squeezing it in. So time wise, I don't know that there's too much opportunity to expand, but we'd love to continue growing both like in depth and breadth. So I think the school year opportunity is really there for on both ends. We can deepen the relationships with students who participate in the summers, but we can also really broaden that to more kids. They, a lot of these communities, you know, really have the support and the staff buy in to execute incredibly well. The schools do too. And in Tuscaloosa, it was called Anchor Alabama. And they did a fantastic job creating programming that made sense throughout the year and that really let students lead and choose what programming they wanted to see and also exposed them to some other places. So expanding that to Auburn really continues that breadth and depth. And then the HBCU internship has a huge opportunity to grow. We see students coming back again and again because the quality of the work was so great. And employers coming back and referring us to other companies that they think should be a part of it. So there's opportunity for growth. But those summits are one of the harder nuts to crack in terms of how do we grow that program. (00:38):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:20:16]: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. What success measurements are you normally using for this? I mean, I know you talked about just the sheer demand on those, which I think is a good one. But as far as what your actual goal is, of course, which is retaining people for a longer time period. (00:39):
undefined
Estes [00:20:32]: Yeah, of course. So a lot of these are pretty new. So we don't have as much of the, you know, okay, what's the ratio of students participating versus those who have stayed for five years? Like that doesn't even exist yet. None of our students have been a part of this and are still in Alabama five years later. Not that much time has passed. Yeah, but what we are seeing as kind of leading indicators toward that eventual metric for hbcu, as I mentioned, like, students are coming back semester after semester looking for these work based opportunities. And these are kids who have had internships with Amazon and Google and, you know, you name it, and they have an internship with Analytical AI here in Birmingham. And it's so great that they come back again and want that type of experience. So that's a huge indicator for us. Same on the other side with the employers, of course. What. One of the best things we can see is like, you were such a great intern that we want to hire you. Yeah, I love that. As far as other metrics, in case you, you know, are curious, on the community programming side, there's certainly that demand is a huge indicator for us of how successful we are. But it's, it's not just that because a lot of times, you know, what you want to see is particularly for students, it's like, oh, yeah, this looks great. I'm going to sign up for all these things at the beginning of the summer. And then you don't actually follow through. Yeah, so what, what is the participation at like the end of the summer? Have people continued being a part? Have people continued engaging? And we've seen really great engagement rates across several of the communities. Tuscaloosa has done an unbelievable job being really intentional about. They interview every single student that applies and they only accept, you know, those who do well in the interviews and really indicate that level of interest. That's like, you're, you're with us, you're with us for the summer, you're going to participate and you care yeah, that's interesting. (00:40):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:22:43]: Yeah. Because you're right. Everyone's always all into everything at the beginning and sometimes that fades out a little bit. (00:41):
undefined
Estes [00:22:49]: Yeah, it's not. The August is not the same as the May. (00:42):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:22:54]: No, it's definitely not. Oh, my goodness. Well, I think we've covered a lot here. Is there anything else you would want to add that we haven't talked about? (00:43):
undefined
Estes [00:23:04]: One thing that you and I had talked about before we hopped on the call was kind of the broader strategy of Innovate. And Innovate Alabama is a public private partnership here in Alabama with a very forward looking strategy of how do you create this kind of innovation economy? And the edpa, of course, is just kind of all arrows pointed to Alabama's future economic prosperity. And we just really believe that talent is a big part of that equation and both entities are rowing the same direction on that. And so we. These programs exist with the support of Innovate Alabama. And we have seen such strong alignment between, you know, corporate entities in Alabama that are looking to build a really strong pipeline and the public sector that's saying we need, you know, we are investing these state dollars in these universities and in these communities around student attraction and placemaking and economic development. Like, we need this talent to stay here. We're educating this talent. Let's keep them here. And then of course, the economic development organizations like ours trying to implement those strategies and that thought leadership and really make it happen. And so we're excited to just be a part of that work. (00:44):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:24:24]: That's awesome. So do you typically get much like, like you're talking about running these weekend programs and things? Is that like, hands on with you or are there other. Okay, so you actually are getting to interact with the students and like do all the things? (00:45):
undefined
Estes [00:24:36]: Yes, absolutely. You know, we are an incredibly small team, so we are interacting with all the HBCU students from those who apply all the way through, you know, interview day, those who intern, those who graduate through the summer programming, all the communities that receive grants, all the students that go through that program, and those who go through the summit. So we meet a lot of college kids. Yeah. (00:46):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:25:05]: What are your thoughts on? I mean, I don't know. I can't say that these days I really get to interact with a ton of like that age cohort. So what are your thoughts on? I know there's so much out there about, you know, like the push and pull between like different generations. What have you seen that you feel like is like, wow, these, this kind of generation is so good at this thing that they don't get enough credit for or what are like some things that you do have to coach them on as a whole? (00:47):
undefined
Estes [00:25:30]: I'm glad you brought that up because I feel like they get such a bad reputation and we have just seen a, an unbelievable amount of talent. Like, you look at these kids resumes and you're like, I never would have even made it into college if I were applying now. Like, I would not have a job if I were flying against these kids now. Yeah, but, but one thing that has always struck me is the level of alignment and meaning that they are looking for in the place where they're working. You know, they want to believe in what the organization they're working for is doing and they want that to be aligned with their values. And if that is true, if those things are kind of in sync and growing in the same direction, they will just leverage that amazing amount of talent and work really hard. They are a lot more asynchronous than I think you and I are familiar with and that certainly can create its challenges. It's like, no, no, I need you to email me and tell me what you are doing. I, I know that that doesn't feel native to you, but I need you to make it incredibly, like obvious and visible. And we talk to them about that all the time. Like, you can't just, you know, operate in the background and expect that everyone knows what you're doing. You have to put it out there and make it really easy for your employer to see. But once they do, and once they like feel connected to the mission and the meaning of what they're doing in their work, there's an amazing amount of talent there. (00:48):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:27:12]: Yeah, that's amazing. So you're based in Birmingham, right, running this program? So what is, we always ask our guests, you know, where are you based and what is a bucket list item that someone visiting should be sure to do if they were to visit and maybe something like a little bit that would be like the first thing they would find if they were googling around. (00:49):
undefined
Estes [00:27:32]: Okay, this is hard. So I really love food, but like that is kind of the first thing that someone visiting Birmingham knows to do is like eat everything you can because the food here is so good and you know, we have tons of James Beard award winning restaurants and bars and you know, you're a stone's throw away like anywhere you go. Um, so that, that is amazing. But one of the things that I just don't think gets a lot of recognition in the Birmingham metro area not like, you know, Birmingham and then all of the suburbs around Birmingham, but there are a ton of parks with really beautiful underrated resources. So Oak Mountain State park is fabulous. You know, access to water, there are people stand up, paddle boarding. I like to mountain bike and hike and they're really great trails. You know, the outdoors here are just really underrated and people who, who come to Birmingham don't even know that. Like, you know, it's actually pretty hilly. There's, you know, there's Mountain Brook, which is one of the suburbs, and it's like a mountain. Yeah, it's really pretty out there. You know, it's beautiful. And the, the topography makes for great biking and hiking and all sorts of outdoor activities that I really just think people don't know enough about. (00:50):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:29:02]: Yeah, I know. I loved, I mentioned I'd been on a press trip there about a year ago and I really loved the sloss furnaces. That was so cool. (00:51):
undefined
Estes [00:29:09]: So cool. And that's why we're called the Magic City, is because all the ingredients, all the major ingredients for steel were here. And we're one of the only places in the world with that kind of makeup. And so that's, that's why this city is what it is and that's why it grew so fast. (00:52):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:29:28]: Loved that. Well, thank you so much. I think our listeners will get a lot out of this one. Love what you're doing, love the statewide approach, and I think it'll be a great case study. (00:53):
undefined
Estes [00:29:37]: Thanks so much. It was so nice to speak with you. Thanks for having us. (00:54):
undefined
Amanda Ellis [00:29:46]: Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast, where we take you Inside America's Best Cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate, and review this show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at aellis@livability.com. Until next time, from Livability, I'm Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America's most promising places. (00:55):
undefined
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!