August 26, 2025 • 25 mins
Downtowns are a huge part of a city’s identity, but the fast-growing Austin suburb of Cedar Park didn’t have one. Enter the new downtown Bell District and its anchor, the Cedar Park Public Library. In this episode, hear from Mayor Jim Penniman-Morin about the vibrant, walkable heartbeat of Cedar Park, the importance of having a downtown and how to create one from the ground up.
At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs.
Be sure to subscribe so you’re alerted when we release new episodes. Learn more about us at LivabilityMedia.com and follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email host Amanda Ellis at aellis@livability.com.
Inside America’s Best Cities is produced by SpeakEasy Productions.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jim [00:00:10]:
I think every city needs just kind of constantly work at how do you keep your citizens connected to this place and feeling part of it? You do that, you'll succeed. (00:00):
undefined
Amanda [00:00:21]: That's the voice of Jim Penniman-Morin, Mayor of Cedar Park, Texas. He joins us today to talk about creating a downtown, which in this case is Cedar Park's new Bell District, anchored by the community's library, but with more phases still to come. It's a fascinating case study on what it's like to create a downtown from the bottom up and to create something special and unique to your community. You can learn more about this podcast at livabilitymedia.com and with that, let's jump in. Thank you so much for joining us on Inside America's Best Cities. We're jumping right into our new season, and you're our first sort of traditional interview guest. We've been trying out a new format with some of our episodes where we bring on several people, but today the spotlight is all on you. So thank you for being here. (00:01):
undefined
Jim [00:01:17]: Oh, thank you. I really appreciate the invitation. I enjoy the podcast and I have enjoyed the new format, too, like the one… listened to one on internships this summer, which is such an important topic. And so, yeah, I'm a fan and I appreciate the opportunity. (00:02):
undefined
Amanda [00:01:30]: Awesome. Well, we are super excited to hear more about Cedar Park and how you've kind of created your own downtown that didn't really exist before and the placemaking that's happened with that. So to kick us off, can you just start by talking a little bit about, you know, why are downtowns so important? Why was this such a big priority? (00:03):
undefined
Jim [00:01:49]: Yeah, I think downtowns are important for the same reason, like dining room tables are important to a family or a couch. Right? Like, at some point, every group of people has to have a place to come together. Right? And the city, at the end of the day is a group of people. You know, whether it's Manhattan and New York City or, you know, the. The smallest town in West Texas, you, you know, it's your collection of people, and those people need a place to come together and know where to come together. There's a lot of advantages to having a very young city like we have, you know, was only incorporated about 52 years ago, and before that was really just kind of like ranch land north of Austin. And so we don't have a historic downtown. Like, a lot of even very small towns have, you know, the place that would have been their downtown 100 years ago. (00:04):
undefined
Amanda [00:02:38]: Like the Main Street vibe? (00:05):
undefined
Jim [00:02:40]: Yeah, the Main street vibe. And. And like there are some real challenges, you know, in the 21st century for a lot of those small towns. But, you know, I, I, it's, it's just important thing to have, right? And it comes, sometimes that comes out in small ways. Like we used to have fourth of July parades, but, like, didn't really know where to hold them, you know, so we'd hold them in different neighborhoods. And it's like, felt like the HOA should be putting this on, maybe not really the city. And so without a downtown, you know, you don't truly have a place for your community to come together and to know that they're in an authentic place and, and that makes it harder for them to become part of the authentic place. I think that's just like the most important thing in so many parts of our society these days is like, finding that genuine authenticity and like knowing if you were blindfolded and brought there unblindfolded, you'd be like, oh, I'm in Cedar Park. (00:06):
undefined
Amanda [00:03:34]: Yes, I love that. That makes so much sense. And you're right. They really are central to communities. And even sometimes when they, I don't know, in some ways, a lot of downtowns, like, you know, aren't as convenient to spend time in. Places that are really car centric, like, you have to figure out parking and, you know, whatever. But people are really willing to do that because they want to be, you know, kind of part of that vibe. So I definitely, definitely get what you're saying about that. And I did a little research on, on this and the website you all have set up, and it is beautiful. So I love what you're doing. I was like, this would be cool to see in person, but you've built it up around a library. So tell us a little more about that kind of the library being the front porch, so to speak, and the anchor for this area. So what made that the place you decided to start and a central piece of this project? (00:07):
undefined
Jim [00:04:23]: Yeah, well, as we started looking at how to, how to do this essentially redevelopment project, you know, there has to be an anchor. What all the experts will tell you, our master developer, Redleaf, who's done a wonderful job, you know, certainly this was their advice. You got to have some kind of anchor. Just like a shopping mall has to have an anchor of some, you know, marquee store that'll bring you there. A lot of times that's city hall. But I think the real brilliance of a library for us is kind of twofold. One, people come to go to their library more than they go to City Hall. Right. Like, as much as I would love to have several hundred people at our council meetings enjoying all my jokes, you know, like, that doesn't happen and, you know, anything outside, like an old western movie. And so. But people come to your library, and if you make it a really attractive place, especially in a place like Cedar Park that has a lot of young families, like, you're going to have a lot of people going through that library. And we've had like 500,000 visitors just in those first six months since we opened it. And so it's become kind of genuine tourist destination in and of itself. But that's. That has to do with the other reason we did it and that our city is very, very blessed to be benefiting from the knowledge economy. So we have a lot of brilliant nerds living in our city. You know, Apple's campus is just outside, just across the border in Austin. We have a lot of Facebook employees, NVIDIA employees. So for us, knowledge is what defines our local economy and so much of our kind of local culture. So it's only natural to have this, the library, be that showcase for what is Cedar Park in the 21st century. (00:08):
undefined
Amanda [00:06:04]: I saw on their website, it was on the FAQ, it said, are you offering tours? And it was like, “we are too busy to offer tours right now.” (00:09):
undefined
Jim [00:06:11]: Yeah. Yeah. (00:10):
undefined
Amanda [00:06:12]: So that's a great problem to have. (00:11):
undefined
Jim [00:06:14]: It's. It's definitely been interesting. Like, we knew it would be popular. We ramped up hiring in advance, but like, it got to the point where we had to hire back all our summer lifeguards this winter to help like, police the kids play and book area. Just because there were like so many children running amok. You know, we had like a playground in there, toys, you know, different kind of learning, playful learning, you know, in addition to all the kids' books. And so it's, again, it's a wonderful problem to have and one I'd take any day. (00:12):
undefined
Amanda [00:06:47]: But programs for adults too. I mean, there was definitely a wide variety from what I could see, something for everybody. And a lot of programming, too, that you could access without necessarily having a library card, which I thought was..was neat too. (00:13):
undefined
Jim [00:07:00]: Yeah. And like, that's, I think kind of goes back to why the downtown thing is so important as well. It's like a lot of what we designed that building be as a gathering space. So there's some big conference rooms. There's a lot of like, small conference rooms that anybody who has a library card can rent for, you know, three, four people. Whether that's where I've seen, you know, for Bible study, study groups, community service groups, you know, and so, like, when you don't have that kind of historic downtown and like the historic, I don't know, downtown cafe that a lot of cities have, you know, you got to build that place for yourself. And the exciting part is you get to build it fresh. (00:14):
undefined
Amanda [00:07:36]: Yes. So the Bell District is the name this is going by. Is that just because… Is that just because it's a street name? (00:15):
undefined
Jim [00:07:45]: Yeah. So actually the Bell Boulevard is U.S. 183. That is a U.S. highway that we actually… has always run through the center of our town. And we actually moved it over a couple hundred feet in order to create the space for this district, but within our city limits that was named after Kenneth Bell, who was our first mayor. (00:16):
undefined
Amanda [00:08:06]: Okay, so that's kind of a full circle little moment with the name. So you talked a little bit with kind of the library anchor about the process and that you engaged a developer that helped with this. But tell us more about, about the process because I know you're not done, so sort of where it started, where you're at? (00:17):
undefined
Jim [00:08:24]: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's a really important thing that, like, if not everyone else who listens to this podcast probably understands and maybe just commiserate in that, like, everyone's children and cities grow up faster. Right. And so, like, it takes a lot of patience to have your city, you know, that you're building. Right. So these projects you're really excited about take a long time. The Bell District's been in the works for, I think over 10 years, 12 years now, when they started first kind of doing visioning and community engagement about, like, how are we, you know, how are we going to do this? What do we need to do? And so we still have several years left, you know, before the whole thing's really built out. But as everyone else who also understands, you know, listen to your podcast, understands is like, when you build a city, like, you're building it for forever. You know I’m a fan of Chuck Marone and Strong Towns put a lot of good information out. And, you know, they… He has this analogy in the original Strong Towns book about cities being like a baseball game that never ends. Right. And like, you would play the game different if it didn't end after nine innings. And so that. That patience is incredibly important to make sure that you build all this engagement, you know, and that you have this shared vision. And so, like, as much as I would love to claim credit for any of this, like, it's actually like two mayors ago. Right. But everybody… I first met the prior mayor. I think the first time ever met a mayor in my life was when we had a public engagement session that the city staff put together to ask people like what they wanted out of this place, what do they want in the library, what do they want, you know, in the Bell District in general. And it's just. It's really exciting. And that pays off a lot now because you're in the implementation stage and like anything you have any time you have change in a community. Right. You've got concerns. Right. You get people who don't understand or they. They don't necessarily like what's happening to their neighborhood. But when you've had this years of public engagement, like the people understand the vision. They understand why it's good for. For them, for their property values, for their community. And what we generally are wrestling with at our city is actually kind of tamping down excitement or just helping people understand like you know, it's not gonna be done next week. So. (00:18):
undefined
Amanda [00:10:42]: Yeah, not exactly. So this whole process was, it sounds like, shaped by that community input and feedback. So was the library already located in this location? (00:19):
undefined
Jim [00:10:52]: No, no. We built a totally new library. (00:20):
undefined
Amanda [00:10:55]: Okay. (00:21):
undefined
Jim [00:10:56]: And you know, it's about maybe a mile apart. We're actually repurposing our old library into a community center as well. That's a little more like you can kind of rent space more periodically if you're in a dance class or class or you know we're going to use that to also kind of try out different programming as well. But again kind of satisfying our young communities real needs for gathering places. (00:22):
undefined
Amanda [00:11:22]: Yeah. So the library is already there and open. It looks like you had the farmer's market there and operating lots of just like fun outdoor green space as well as indoor spaces that can be used. What else is already. Is that kind of what's already there in this phase? (00:23):
undefined
Jim [00:11:37]: Yeah, like that's the heart of it. I mean again. So we. We've got a area called with a backyard which is bigger than most people's backyards anyways. But you know, a few acres that you can have smallish concerts and gatherings in. That's. We've activated that recently with the kind of concert series on Friday nights and food trucks. Eventually they'll be surrounded by restaurants like you if you go to, you know the Bell district website is worth taking a look at the renderings to see that vision. But then also like we invested in a world unique play sculpture called Bell with an e this time which is our state bird in Texas is the mockingbird. And so it's a giant mockingbird that young kids can play in and there's none other like in the world. It's a monstrum's a company out of Denmark that makes those and you'll see those in a lot of places. But it just, again, it gives that real unique sense of place and a lot of Instagramable worthy moments. But you know, like, so one of my proudest moments of as in my time I've been mayor is bringing my parents who live in Virginia still, they came to visit and I remember, you know, we're walking past the bell statue again, it's like three story tall bird and there's like just like 40 families all just kind of sitting around and the moms and dads are, you know, chatting with each other while their kids play. And my mom says like, it's instant community is what you've built here. And like, you know, it's, it's always good to make your mom proud of you, but it's even better when you know it's something that you're just so proud of how your community is growing. (00:24):
undefined
Amanda [00:13:19]: Yeah, that's awesome. That's a really good way to describe it. And I know you're also gonna be adding some housing as well eventually, right? So both some apartments, townhomes, all of that good stuff, talk about. (00:25):
undefined
Jim [00:13:31]: And hopefully some offices as well. (00:26):
undefined
Amanda [00:13:33]: Okay, so talk about what kind of price point are those gonna be at? Cause I know, you know, downtown is typically like where everyone wants to be and so that can be, you know, something that is at a little bit. Is there attention being paid to that being accessible to a lot of different types? (00:27):
undefined
Jim [00:13:48]: Yeah, I mean I, I think it's important to know what you're good at and what you're not. I'm a big believer in like supply meeting demand. And obviously we're in a fast growing area. There's a lot of demand for housing. But so I think it's kind of important. Our important contribution is that's just kind of creating that space to add another several thousand housing units. And particularly for us, we have a lot of single family housing, as you'd expect for like a Texas suburb, you know, and a newish one at that. And so a lot of it has that kind of classic post war development pattern. But so having some high density housing in a walkable neighborhood and those two have to go together if they're going to succeed. Right. Is is be a big step forward in the future. For us and I think going to make it a lot easier than it currently is for, for younger 20 somethings to find a place to live in the city before they're able and ready to buy a single family home or a townhome. And then I, we got a lot of interest and there'll be at least one building in the district that is covenanted for for senior living because you have a lot of people that really love Cedar park, loved raising their family here, don't necessarily want to keep mowing that lawn, you know, and so they're kind of looking for that opportunity as well. But, but certainly it's, it's as we market rate, you know, to your original question. But I think it's something that we keep an eye on in terms of like are we doing what we need to do as a city to make sure that we're allowing enough housing supply so that, you know, we don't become a place that excludes all the people we need to make our city thrive. (00:28):
undefined
Amanda [00:15:30]: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Obviously that's something all places are dealing with right now in their own ways. Right. Is having that housing stock and that it's something, you know, people in a range of different types of jobs can afford to enjoy. I love what you said too about that just you know, age inclusiveness of kind of creating that all different people in different phases of life being able to enjoy that together. (00:29):
undefined
Jim [00:15:52]: So yeah, again you think of a city as a collection of people and not a collection of buildings, you know, that kind of leads that natural conclusion. And one of the things, things that I get a lot of nods and agreement with when I've campaigned is wanting our, our city to be not just a place you raise your family, but a place your family wants to return to and stay in, you know, because that's, that's real community. And while we won't be a small town anymore, the reality is like there's a lot of like small town feeling places even in big cities because the small town feels what people want and that's a connectedness. And you know, the Bell district is an important avenue of the physical infrastructure of that connectedness. But the programming of the library and the new recreate center, our old library, part of that like you know, kind of social programmatic infrastructure, you know, but it's something like I think every city is just kind of constantly work as how do you keep your citizens connected to this place and feeling part of it. You do that, you'll succeed. (00:30):
undefined
Amanda [00:17:00]: So true. And honestly it goes back, you know, we were talking about our other podcast that we've just released about maintaining those young people, your students, your recent graduates. It's the same thing. And the narratives really change for a lot of smaller places, it used to be kind of like, “oh, well, you have to go somewhere else if you want to be successful.” And now there is so much. Well, I think there's always been opportunity, but just doing a better job of promoting to people, you know, what there is, where they're already at and making that just as exciting. (00:31):
undefined
Jim [00:17:27]: Yeah, yeah. And I've really enjoyed some of your episodes. It's kind of just ways to affirmatively do that instead of just like, assume it will happen, which maybe is how it used to be, you know, decades ago or worse yet, and you see this more recently, you know, just kind of despair that's not going to happen. I mean, we're in an area here in the greater Austin area where, like, a lot of people are moving to. So it tends to be the problem we all deal with, you know, and not have to lament. But, you know, I. That it's still something that we need to stay on top of and are very aware of that, you know, of. Of like, let this be the place that it was for you. You know, when I moved in the Cedar park with my family, we were, you know, years and years ago. Like, I want other families to have that same experience in a place that's even better for it. (00:32):
undefined
Amanda [00:18:18]: Yes. So it sounds like this is part of a larger community revival. So it's not just this, this downtown creation project. How do you see the momentum carrying over into other parts of the community or other things that are goals? (00:33):
undefined
Jim [00:18:34]: Yeah. You know, and I think for us, and some it's somewhat revival in, like, that specific neighborhood. But, like, the challenge of Cedar Park is like, as opposed to most cities in the country, you know, like, we're building anew in a lot of ways. Right. So it's. And that means you get a little of a clean slate. You know, we don't have older buildings that, you know, are, need a lot of work or, you know, kind of have natural, inherent character. Right. So, like, we went to the inner city visit to Cary, North Carolina, which has a lot of similarities, like, economically and to Cedar Park. And just we did that earlier this summer. And like, they have this, like, small old downtown from the small old country town of Cary that they're doing brilliant things with to kind of expand. And so we kind of take some lessons from that, but also just kind of know that like we have to start from. From scratch. And that's a blessing and a curse. (00:34):
undefined
Amanda [00:19:26]: Yeah, that's definitely true. What would you say to your listeners here who are peers in terms of where should they start if they're looking at the same type of thing? Like, we don't really have a central community gathering place that has that downtown feel. Where to begin? (00:35):
undefined
Jim [00:19:46]: Yeah, I think you've got to look at what you have, you know, and like Cary was a good example. Our neighboring community of Leander is a good example. Certainly like some other cities like Taylor and in Georgetown, also Williamson County, Texas. Here, like they have like old bones and sometimes it's just a block of what their old city was, you know, but like you can use that. Right. And so look what you have. But like this is going to be somewhat of an unsatisfying answer to your elected officials, but it's always just kind of worth remembering like, what makes you successful as elected official is listening and really listening. And so like listening what your people want and your residents want. And like ours wanted a unique sense of place. They wanted, you know, a place to outside of Austin that they could bring, you know, friends and family when they visited to. And you know, that. That came in a variety of different ideas along the way. I mean, the original thought was like for the Bell District was we'd put it in a traffic circle and some like nice park benches and some enhanced like street lighting. And then like that became pretty clear. Like no, that. That does not a downtown make. Right. But it's an exploratory process in the set of conversations that you gotta have the patience to use the ESPN word to stick-to-itiveness, you know, to keep at. But ultimately it's what you owe your residents and they'll be really thankful for it. (00:36):
undefined
Amanda [00:21:17]: Yeah. Well, I love what you're doing. I know a lot of libraries have reinvented themselves and are doing cool stuff. I don't know that there's a ton that are what you described of clearing those kinds of visitor numbers and having to have some special monitoring of the kids section. (00:37):
undefined
Jim [00:21:33]: Yeah, yeah. I think it's a real testament to like how thoughtful the city staff and this whole community has approached it. And like some of the things I'm just so proud of when I go into that library is like, we. It was designed to try and minimize how many trees had to be taken down. You know, trees are a precious, slow growing thing in central Texas. And so. But what they did have to take down, they got milled and actually like you, you when you walk in the library and hopefully you share some pictures on your website. (00:38):
undefined
Amanda [00:22:04]: Yes. (00:39):
undefined
Jim [00:22:06]: There's like two story wood wall, like that's all pecan trees that had been there on the site and their tree tags are actually like on a plaque on the wall. And that was a big surprise to me when I came for the first like, you know, pre opening tour. And it was just because the library staff was so excited about this for years, along with their engineering team and their architects. And like they've just found all these little ways to make this place personal to Cedar park. And it's a testament to like, we have great people and you empower them and let them run, you know, and they'll come up with some amazing things and your community will respond to that. (00:40):
undefined
Amanda [00:22:43]: Yeah, I love that. And taking what people asked for, being able to execute on it and then them being excited about it. It's a great success story. So we always close out our episodes with a fun question. And so I'm curious because we've kind of already been talking about one of the best things to do right now in Cedar Park. But the question is like, what's a bucket list item you would tell people visiting for the first time to do so maybe if there's something else, like a restaurant that's a little bit off the beaten path that you love or something to engage in. (00:41):
undefined
Jim [00:23:11]: Yeah, boy. Well, this is, this is a tougher question and a fun one because now I got to decide who I'm going to make mad. But you know, we have like amazing range of cuisine in Cedar Park. One of my favorite place is Nepalese restaurant called Yak n Yeti. And if you haven't had Nepalese food, like, it's an amazing kind of combination of like Chinese food and Indian food. And so like, that's really cool. We of course, of course have like great barbecue place, like you know, style switch. But you know, the place that until this library came about that people kind of felt like they knew they were in Cedar Park was we had the Brushy Creek Trail, which is a… before long will actually be a trail that goes along Brushy Creek for like the entire. All the way across Williamson County. So it'll be like 50 miles long I guess by the time it's done in just in a few years. But like it's just like it's really again long stream is bucolic, mostly shaded and you know, it's just a great place to go out and, and get, get your steps in or you know, bring your kid on their bike. Same thing with like Lakeland Park. You know, you go there and like, it's like you get people speaking. My wife commented, like, every time you go, it's like you hear five different languages. Right? Because you got like people coming from all over the world to live and raise their families and work in Cedar Park. And that's a real blessing and something we're all really grateful for. (00:42):
undefined
Amanda [00:24:34]: Very cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on to share the story. (00:43):
undefined
Jim [00:24:38]: You bet. (00:44):
undefined
Amanda [00:24:44]: Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast where we take you Inside America's Best Cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate and review this show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at aellis@livability.com. Until next time, from Livability, I'm Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America's most promising places. (00:45):
undefined
undefined
Amanda [00:00:21]: That's the voice of Jim Penniman-Morin, Mayor of Cedar Park, Texas. He joins us today to talk about creating a downtown, which in this case is Cedar Park's new Bell District, anchored by the community's library, but with more phases still to come. It's a fascinating case study on what it's like to create a downtown from the bottom up and to create something special and unique to your community. You can learn more about this podcast at livabilitymedia.com and with that, let's jump in. Thank you so much for joining us on Inside America's Best Cities. We're jumping right into our new season, and you're our first sort of traditional interview guest. We've been trying out a new format with some of our episodes where we bring on several people, but today the spotlight is all on you. So thank you for being here. (00:01):
undefined
Jim [00:01:17]: Oh, thank you. I really appreciate the invitation. I enjoy the podcast and I have enjoyed the new format, too, like the one… listened to one on internships this summer, which is such an important topic. And so, yeah, I'm a fan and I appreciate the opportunity. (00:02):
undefined
Amanda [00:01:30]: Awesome. Well, we are super excited to hear more about Cedar Park and how you've kind of created your own downtown that didn't really exist before and the placemaking that's happened with that. So to kick us off, can you just start by talking a little bit about, you know, why are downtowns so important? Why was this such a big priority? (00:03):
undefined
Jim [00:01:49]: Yeah, I think downtowns are important for the same reason, like dining room tables are important to a family or a couch. Right? Like, at some point, every group of people has to have a place to come together. Right? And the city, at the end of the day is a group of people. You know, whether it's Manhattan and New York City or, you know, the. The smallest town in West Texas, you, you know, it's your collection of people, and those people need a place to come together and know where to come together. There's a lot of advantages to having a very young city like we have, you know, was only incorporated about 52 years ago, and before that was really just kind of like ranch land north of Austin. And so we don't have a historic downtown. Like, a lot of even very small towns have, you know, the place that would have been their downtown 100 years ago. (00:04):
undefined
Amanda [00:02:38]: Like the Main Street vibe? (00:05):
undefined
Jim [00:02:40]: Yeah, the Main street vibe. And. And like there are some real challenges, you know, in the 21st century for a lot of those small towns. But, you know, I, I, it's, it's just important thing to have, right? And it comes, sometimes that comes out in small ways. Like we used to have fourth of July parades, but, like, didn't really know where to hold them, you know, so we'd hold them in different neighborhoods. And it's like, felt like the HOA should be putting this on, maybe not really the city. And so without a downtown, you know, you don't truly have a place for your community to come together and to know that they're in an authentic place and, and that makes it harder for them to become part of the authentic place. I think that's just like the most important thing in so many parts of our society these days is like, finding that genuine authenticity and like knowing if you were blindfolded and brought there unblindfolded, you'd be like, oh, I'm in Cedar Park. (00:06):
undefined
Amanda [00:03:34]: Yes, I love that. That makes so much sense. And you're right. They really are central to communities. And even sometimes when they, I don't know, in some ways, a lot of downtowns, like, you know, aren't as convenient to spend time in. Places that are really car centric, like, you have to figure out parking and, you know, whatever. But people are really willing to do that because they want to be, you know, kind of part of that vibe. So I definitely, definitely get what you're saying about that. And I did a little research on, on this and the website you all have set up, and it is beautiful. So I love what you're doing. I was like, this would be cool to see in person, but you've built it up around a library. So tell us a little more about that kind of the library being the front porch, so to speak, and the anchor for this area. So what made that the place you decided to start and a central piece of this project? (00:07):
undefined
Jim [00:04:23]: Yeah, well, as we started looking at how to, how to do this essentially redevelopment project, you know, there has to be an anchor. What all the experts will tell you, our master developer, Redleaf, who's done a wonderful job, you know, certainly this was their advice. You got to have some kind of anchor. Just like a shopping mall has to have an anchor of some, you know, marquee store that'll bring you there. A lot of times that's city hall. But I think the real brilliance of a library for us is kind of twofold. One, people come to go to their library more than they go to City Hall. Right. Like, as much as I would love to have several hundred people at our council meetings enjoying all my jokes, you know, like, that doesn't happen and, you know, anything outside, like an old western movie. And so. But people come to your library, and if you make it a really attractive place, especially in a place like Cedar Park that has a lot of young families, like, you're going to have a lot of people going through that library. And we've had like 500,000 visitors just in those first six months since we opened it. And so it's become kind of genuine tourist destination in and of itself. But that's. That has to do with the other reason we did it and that our city is very, very blessed to be benefiting from the knowledge economy. So we have a lot of brilliant nerds living in our city. You know, Apple's campus is just outside, just across the border in Austin. We have a lot of Facebook employees, NVIDIA employees. So for us, knowledge is what defines our local economy and so much of our kind of local culture. So it's only natural to have this, the library, be that showcase for what is Cedar Park in the 21st century. (00:08):
undefined
Amanda [00:06:04]: I saw on their website, it was on the FAQ, it said, are you offering tours? And it was like, “we are too busy to offer tours right now.” (00:09):
undefined
Jim [00:06:11]: Yeah. Yeah. (00:10):
undefined
Amanda [00:06:12]: So that's a great problem to have. (00:11):
undefined
Jim [00:06:14]: It's. It's definitely been interesting. Like, we knew it would be popular. We ramped up hiring in advance, but like, it got to the point where we had to hire back all our summer lifeguards this winter to help like, police the kids play and book area. Just because there were like so many children running amok. You know, we had like a playground in there, toys, you know, different kind of learning, playful learning, you know, in addition to all the kids' books. And so it's, again, it's a wonderful problem to have and one I'd take any day. (00:12):
undefined
Amanda [00:06:47]: But programs for adults too. I mean, there was definitely a wide variety from what I could see, something for everybody. And a lot of programming, too, that you could access without necessarily having a library card, which I thought was..was neat too. (00:13):
undefined
Jim [00:07:00]: Yeah. And like, that's, I think kind of goes back to why the downtown thing is so important as well. It's like a lot of what we designed that building be as a gathering space. So there's some big conference rooms. There's a lot of like, small conference rooms that anybody who has a library card can rent for, you know, three, four people. Whether that's where I've seen, you know, for Bible study, study groups, community service groups, you know, and so, like, when you don't have that kind of historic downtown and like the historic, I don't know, downtown cafe that a lot of cities have, you know, you got to build that place for yourself. And the exciting part is you get to build it fresh. (00:14):
undefined
Amanda [00:07:36]: Yes. So the Bell District is the name this is going by. Is that just because… Is that just because it's a street name? (00:15):
undefined
Jim [00:07:45]: Yeah. So actually the Bell Boulevard is U.S. 183. That is a U.S. highway that we actually… has always run through the center of our town. And we actually moved it over a couple hundred feet in order to create the space for this district, but within our city limits that was named after Kenneth Bell, who was our first mayor. (00:16):
undefined
Amanda [00:08:06]: Okay, so that's kind of a full circle little moment with the name. So you talked a little bit with kind of the library anchor about the process and that you engaged a developer that helped with this. But tell us more about, about the process because I know you're not done, so sort of where it started, where you're at? (00:17):
undefined
Jim [00:08:24]: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think that's a really important thing that, like, if not everyone else who listens to this podcast probably understands and maybe just commiserate in that, like, everyone's children and cities grow up faster. Right. And so, like, it takes a lot of patience to have your city, you know, that you're building. Right. So these projects you're really excited about take a long time. The Bell District's been in the works for, I think over 10 years, 12 years now, when they started first kind of doing visioning and community engagement about, like, how are we, you know, how are we going to do this? What do we need to do? And so we still have several years left, you know, before the whole thing's really built out. But as everyone else who also understands, you know, listen to your podcast, understands is like, when you build a city, like, you're building it for forever. You know I’m a fan of Chuck Marone and Strong Towns put a lot of good information out. And, you know, they… He has this analogy in the original Strong Towns book about cities being like a baseball game that never ends. Right. And like, you would play the game different if it didn't end after nine innings. And so that. That patience is incredibly important to make sure that you build all this engagement, you know, and that you have this shared vision. And so, like, as much as I would love to claim credit for any of this, like, it's actually like two mayors ago. Right. But everybody… I first met the prior mayor. I think the first time ever met a mayor in my life was when we had a public engagement session that the city staff put together to ask people like what they wanted out of this place, what do they want in the library, what do they want, you know, in the Bell District in general. And it's just. It's really exciting. And that pays off a lot now because you're in the implementation stage and like anything you have any time you have change in a community. Right. You've got concerns. Right. You get people who don't understand or they. They don't necessarily like what's happening to their neighborhood. But when you've had this years of public engagement, like the people understand the vision. They understand why it's good for. For them, for their property values, for their community. And what we generally are wrestling with at our city is actually kind of tamping down excitement or just helping people understand like you know, it's not gonna be done next week. So. (00:18):
undefined
Amanda [00:10:42]: Yeah, not exactly. So this whole process was, it sounds like, shaped by that community input and feedback. So was the library already located in this location? (00:19):
undefined
Jim [00:10:52]: No, no. We built a totally new library. (00:20):
undefined
Amanda [00:10:55]: Okay. (00:21):
undefined
Jim [00:10:56]: And you know, it's about maybe a mile apart. We're actually repurposing our old library into a community center as well. That's a little more like you can kind of rent space more periodically if you're in a dance class or class or you know we're going to use that to also kind of try out different programming as well. But again kind of satisfying our young communities real needs for gathering places. (00:22):
undefined
Amanda [00:11:22]: Yeah. So the library is already there and open. It looks like you had the farmer's market there and operating lots of just like fun outdoor green space as well as indoor spaces that can be used. What else is already. Is that kind of what's already there in this phase? (00:23):
undefined
Jim [00:11:37]: Yeah, like that's the heart of it. I mean again. So we. We've got a area called with a backyard which is bigger than most people's backyards anyways. But you know, a few acres that you can have smallish concerts and gatherings in. That's. We've activated that recently with the kind of concert series on Friday nights and food trucks. Eventually they'll be surrounded by restaurants like you if you go to, you know the Bell district website is worth taking a look at the renderings to see that vision. But then also like we invested in a world unique play sculpture called Bell with an e this time which is our state bird in Texas is the mockingbird. And so it's a giant mockingbird that young kids can play in and there's none other like in the world. It's a monstrum's a company out of Denmark that makes those and you'll see those in a lot of places. But it just, again, it gives that real unique sense of place and a lot of Instagramable worthy moments. But you know, like, so one of my proudest moments of as in my time I've been mayor is bringing my parents who live in Virginia still, they came to visit and I remember, you know, we're walking past the bell statue again, it's like three story tall bird and there's like just like 40 families all just kind of sitting around and the moms and dads are, you know, chatting with each other while their kids play. And my mom says like, it's instant community is what you've built here. And like, you know, it's, it's always good to make your mom proud of you, but it's even better when you know it's something that you're just so proud of how your community is growing. (00:24):
undefined
Amanda [00:13:19]: Yeah, that's awesome. That's a really good way to describe it. And I know you're also gonna be adding some housing as well eventually, right? So both some apartments, townhomes, all of that good stuff, talk about. (00:25):
undefined
Jim [00:13:31]: And hopefully some offices as well. (00:26):
undefined
Amanda [00:13:33]: Okay, so talk about what kind of price point are those gonna be at? Cause I know, you know, downtown is typically like where everyone wants to be and so that can be, you know, something that is at a little bit. Is there attention being paid to that being accessible to a lot of different types? (00:27):
undefined
Jim [00:13:48]: Yeah, I mean I, I think it's important to know what you're good at and what you're not. I'm a big believer in like supply meeting demand. And obviously we're in a fast growing area. There's a lot of demand for housing. But so I think it's kind of important. Our important contribution is that's just kind of creating that space to add another several thousand housing units. And particularly for us, we have a lot of single family housing, as you'd expect for like a Texas suburb, you know, and a newish one at that. And so a lot of it has that kind of classic post war development pattern. But so having some high density housing in a walkable neighborhood and those two have to go together if they're going to succeed. Right. Is is be a big step forward in the future. For us and I think going to make it a lot easier than it currently is for, for younger 20 somethings to find a place to live in the city before they're able and ready to buy a single family home or a townhome. And then I, we got a lot of interest and there'll be at least one building in the district that is covenanted for for senior living because you have a lot of people that really love Cedar park, loved raising their family here, don't necessarily want to keep mowing that lawn, you know, and so they're kind of looking for that opportunity as well. But, but certainly it's, it's as we market rate, you know, to your original question. But I think it's something that we keep an eye on in terms of like are we doing what we need to do as a city to make sure that we're allowing enough housing supply so that, you know, we don't become a place that excludes all the people we need to make our city thrive. (00:28):
undefined
Amanda [00:15:30]: Yeah, yeah, I love that. Obviously that's something all places are dealing with right now in their own ways. Right. Is having that housing stock and that it's something, you know, people in a range of different types of jobs can afford to enjoy. I love what you said too about that just you know, age inclusiveness of kind of creating that all different people in different phases of life being able to enjoy that together. (00:29):
undefined
Jim [00:15:52]: So yeah, again you think of a city as a collection of people and not a collection of buildings, you know, that kind of leads that natural conclusion. And one of the things, things that I get a lot of nods and agreement with when I've campaigned is wanting our, our city to be not just a place you raise your family, but a place your family wants to return to and stay in, you know, because that's, that's real community. And while we won't be a small town anymore, the reality is like there's a lot of like small town feeling places even in big cities because the small town feels what people want and that's a connectedness. And you know, the Bell district is an important avenue of the physical infrastructure of that connectedness. But the programming of the library and the new recreate center, our old library, part of that like you know, kind of social programmatic infrastructure, you know, but it's something like I think every city is just kind of constantly work as how do you keep your citizens connected to this place and feeling part of it. You do that, you'll succeed. (00:30):
undefined
Amanda [00:17:00]: So true. And honestly it goes back, you know, we were talking about our other podcast that we've just released about maintaining those young people, your students, your recent graduates. It's the same thing. And the narratives really change for a lot of smaller places, it used to be kind of like, “oh, well, you have to go somewhere else if you want to be successful.” And now there is so much. Well, I think there's always been opportunity, but just doing a better job of promoting to people, you know, what there is, where they're already at and making that just as exciting. (00:31):
undefined
Jim [00:17:27]: Yeah, yeah. And I've really enjoyed some of your episodes. It's kind of just ways to affirmatively do that instead of just like, assume it will happen, which maybe is how it used to be, you know, decades ago or worse yet, and you see this more recently, you know, just kind of despair that's not going to happen. I mean, we're in an area here in the greater Austin area where, like, a lot of people are moving to. So it tends to be the problem we all deal with, you know, and not have to lament. But, you know, I. That it's still something that we need to stay on top of and are very aware of that, you know, of. Of like, let this be the place that it was for you. You know, when I moved in the Cedar park with my family, we were, you know, years and years ago. Like, I want other families to have that same experience in a place that's even better for it. (00:32):
undefined
Amanda [00:18:18]: Yes. So it sounds like this is part of a larger community revival. So it's not just this, this downtown creation project. How do you see the momentum carrying over into other parts of the community or other things that are goals? (00:33):
undefined
Jim [00:18:34]: Yeah. You know, and I think for us, and some it's somewhat revival in, like, that specific neighborhood. But, like, the challenge of Cedar Park is like, as opposed to most cities in the country, you know, like, we're building anew in a lot of ways. Right. So it's. And that means you get a little of a clean slate. You know, we don't have older buildings that, you know, are, need a lot of work or, you know, kind of have natural, inherent character. Right. So, like, we went to the inner city visit to Cary, North Carolina, which has a lot of similarities, like, economically and to Cedar Park. And just we did that earlier this summer. And like, they have this, like, small old downtown from the small old country town of Cary that they're doing brilliant things with to kind of expand. And so we kind of take some lessons from that, but also just kind of know that like we have to start from. From scratch. And that's a blessing and a curse. (00:34):
undefined
Amanda [00:19:26]: Yeah, that's definitely true. What would you say to your listeners here who are peers in terms of where should they start if they're looking at the same type of thing? Like, we don't really have a central community gathering place that has that downtown feel. Where to begin? (00:35):
undefined
Jim [00:19:46]: Yeah, I think you've got to look at what you have, you know, and like Cary was a good example. Our neighboring community of Leander is a good example. Certainly like some other cities like Taylor and in Georgetown, also Williamson County, Texas. Here, like they have like old bones and sometimes it's just a block of what their old city was, you know, but like you can use that. Right. And so look what you have. But like this is going to be somewhat of an unsatisfying answer to your elected officials, but it's always just kind of worth remembering like, what makes you successful as elected official is listening and really listening. And so like listening what your people want and your residents want. And like ours wanted a unique sense of place. They wanted, you know, a place to outside of Austin that they could bring, you know, friends and family when they visited to. And you know, that. That came in a variety of different ideas along the way. I mean, the original thought was like for the Bell District was we'd put it in a traffic circle and some like nice park benches and some enhanced like street lighting. And then like that became pretty clear. Like no, that. That does not a downtown make. Right. But it's an exploratory process in the set of conversations that you gotta have the patience to use the ESPN word to stick-to-itiveness, you know, to keep at. But ultimately it's what you owe your residents and they'll be really thankful for it. (00:36):
undefined
Amanda [00:21:17]: Yeah. Well, I love what you're doing. I know a lot of libraries have reinvented themselves and are doing cool stuff. I don't know that there's a ton that are what you described of clearing those kinds of visitor numbers and having to have some special monitoring of the kids section. (00:37):
undefined
Jim [00:21:33]: Yeah, yeah. I think it's a real testament to like how thoughtful the city staff and this whole community has approached it. And like some of the things I'm just so proud of when I go into that library is like, we. It was designed to try and minimize how many trees had to be taken down. You know, trees are a precious, slow growing thing in central Texas. And so. But what they did have to take down, they got milled and actually like you, you when you walk in the library and hopefully you share some pictures on your website. (00:38):
undefined
Amanda [00:22:04]: Yes. (00:39):
undefined
Jim [00:22:06]: There's like two story wood wall, like that's all pecan trees that had been there on the site and their tree tags are actually like on a plaque on the wall. And that was a big surprise to me when I came for the first like, you know, pre opening tour. And it was just because the library staff was so excited about this for years, along with their engineering team and their architects. And like they've just found all these little ways to make this place personal to Cedar park. And it's a testament to like, we have great people and you empower them and let them run, you know, and they'll come up with some amazing things and your community will respond to that. (00:40):
undefined
Amanda [00:22:43]: Yeah, I love that. And taking what people asked for, being able to execute on it and then them being excited about it. It's a great success story. So we always close out our episodes with a fun question. And so I'm curious because we've kind of already been talking about one of the best things to do right now in Cedar Park. But the question is like, what's a bucket list item you would tell people visiting for the first time to do so maybe if there's something else, like a restaurant that's a little bit off the beaten path that you love or something to engage in. (00:41):
undefined
Jim [00:23:11]: Yeah, boy. Well, this is, this is a tougher question and a fun one because now I got to decide who I'm going to make mad. But you know, we have like amazing range of cuisine in Cedar Park. One of my favorite place is Nepalese restaurant called Yak n Yeti. And if you haven't had Nepalese food, like, it's an amazing kind of combination of like Chinese food and Indian food. And so like, that's really cool. We of course, of course have like great barbecue place, like you know, style switch. But you know, the place that until this library came about that people kind of felt like they knew they were in Cedar Park was we had the Brushy Creek Trail, which is a… before long will actually be a trail that goes along Brushy Creek for like the entire. All the way across Williamson County. So it'll be like 50 miles long I guess by the time it's done in just in a few years. But like it's just like it's really again long stream is bucolic, mostly shaded and you know, it's just a great place to go out and, and get, get your steps in or you know, bring your kid on their bike. Same thing with like Lakeland Park. You know, you go there and like, it's like you get people speaking. My wife commented, like, every time you go, it's like you hear five different languages. Right? Because you got like people coming from all over the world to live and raise their families and work in Cedar Park. And that's a real blessing and something we're all really grateful for. (00:42):
undefined
Amanda [00:24:34]: Very cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on to share the story. (00:43):
undefined
Jim [00:24:38]: You bet. (00:44):
undefined
Amanda [00:24:44]: Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast where we take you Inside America's Best Cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate and review this show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at aellis@livability.com. Until next time, from Livability, I'm Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America's most promising places. (00:45):
undefined
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.