June 10, 2025 • 33 mins
Hilary Doe, Chief Growth Officer for the Michigan Economic Development Corporation, shares how Michigan is strategically addressing population and workforce challenges through a multifaceted approach. From leaning into who you are as a community to drawing on marketing tactics from other industries, get insights on what works to make your place home to more talent.
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Episode Transcript
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Hilary Doe [00:00:09]:
We should take cues from kind of who we are and lean into that and not try to be anything else. And compared with that, I'd suggest folks look at the moments in folks lives when they're highly mobile, when they're most likely to make decisions, either make decisions to go to leave and that we need to focus on retention or make decisions potentially to move in to a new place. (00:00):
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Amanda Ellis [00:00:32]: That's the voice of Hilary Doe, Chief Growth Officer for the Michigan Economic Development Corporation. It's a trailblazing role designed to champion the state's comprehensive talent attraction and retention efforts, which have led to results like seeing 65% of Michigan counties grow last year and moving 40,000 people down the marketing funnel to a place where they say they're interested in living and working in Michigan. Stay tuned for tips to inform your own strategy and learn some things you may not know about a very cool state. Learn more about this podcast at livabilitymedia.com and with that, let's jump in. Welcome, Hillary, to Inside America's Best Cities. We are super excited to chat with you. You look like a total rock star when I was researching you for this interview, so I've been excited about it for a while. (00:01):
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Hilary Doe [00:01:20]: Oh, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. (00:02):
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Amanda Ellis [00:01:24]: So we're going to be talking today about all things Michigan. It feels like you all are everywhere from a talent attract standpoint, just doing all the things. I think it's a great example for other states and other communities, just really hitting all the marks and kind of being everywhere. So we're going to be talking through that a little bit more, some of your strategies and hopefully have some really good takeaways for folks in our space. Can you start by sharing a bit about. I know there's a strong statewide approach for you all, which I do feel like is a little bit unique to have that statewide approach to talent attraction. How did that evolve? Talk us through that journey. (00:03):
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Hilary Doe [00:01:59]: Yeah, no, I think that's right, that it is a little bit unique. And I have had the honor over the last year since I was named Chief Growth Officer and Michigan's the first state in the nation to create a role like mine. So we are, I guess, sort of trailblazing in that regard. But since I took the role on, I've had the opportunity to talk to Michiganders, you know, across our state. And it's so evident when you have those conversations the way in which this is so critical as a foundation to our own economic strength and resilience. You know, our rural communities, this has been, you know, folks, they've been canaries in the coal mine for a long time in communities across the country who may have lost young adult population or have an aging workforce, for example. So kind of irrespective of your way in, the foundation is talent and building communities where our talent, who's already here, want to stay and build their futures. And hopefully when you've done that as well, sharing your story so you can be a beacon to folks across the country who, who might want to come and come and join you. And I really do think there's a place for everyone. So I don't think it's an inherently competitive, you know, task. I want to be in it with my partners and peers across the country identifying each of our distinctive competencies and, and what stories we're telling and what our policy strategies are to really grow our states to the benefit of all of our, our residents. (00:04):
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Amanda Ellis [00:03:19]: Yeah, and I like what you said about the competitive nature not necessarily being a problem because there's something for everybody, right? Different communities, different areas can appeal to different people and having that little space for everybody to find their spot and, you know, live their best life wherever they are. (00:05):
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Hilary Doe [00:03:35]: Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that's, I think that's absolutely right. And again, you know, when you do talent work, or at least the way that we're thinking about it here in the state, and this may be a bit unique, we, there are a few different buckets. There's sort of like three pillars, I suppose, to our talent work. We think about it from a policy perspective. How do you make the product that that is our great state a better and better place to call home. Leveraging public policy. Right. So that might be everything from Pre K for 4 year olds, which we passed here in the state, or community college access for all high school students, or transit investments, housing investments, those kinds of things. And again, that makes the product better and better one for all of our residents. We launch pilots and programs to help ensure that our residents get connected to the right industries and where there are open jobs to make sure that we're supporting our communities and their talent. Traction retention strategies and we do marketing. And each of those things is really critical for our whole story and to move the needle in achieving our goals. But what's the result of doing all those things to the point about it being not particularly competitive? I think the result is a better place for the folks that are here and a better place for all the young people that are growing up in our communities. First and foremost, a retention Strategy where we're building, you know, robust communities that are lively and, you know, really livable. And if that also means that folks across the country are attracted, great. You know, and inevitably, some of our folks might want to go try something else on too. Right. But. But I do think that there's something that's inherently positive about leaning in and doing that talent work, even for the folks who are already here. (00:06):
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Amanda Ellis [00:05:14]: Yes, I love that because I think a lot of communities face, and I don't… I don't know if you all do or not, but I know a lot face locals kind of being like, “what do you mean you want to bring more people here? We already have plenty of people.” But you make a good point about those efforts that go into that thought process, like it benefits everybody, even if you're born and raised where you're living and are still based there. (00:07):
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Hilary Doe [00:05:34]: Yeah, I've had great conversations along those lines. You know, I had the opportunity to talk to now over 20,000 Michiganders across the state, in addition to polling, you know, 6,000+ young people across the country. And some of those conversations certainly have started with, “you can grow Michigan, but don't grow it here.” Absolutely. But the construct of those conversations is, hey, we're going to sit here together and really allow our local communities to let us know what growth looks like to them. And with that foundation and that, like, kind of construct for the conversation, I've never gotten to the end of one where we didn't get to a really good place. Some places are poised for growth and they really want to attract as many folks as they can. And in other places, it's, you know, really sustainable community. They might need nurses and teachers and strategic attraction, for example, or retention. And. And then that's what will help them do. (00:08):
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Amanda Ellis [00:06:24]: Yeah. So the needs are different depending on the place. Definitely. Talk more about some of your overall goals in your role. I believe you've been in it for a couple of years. So some of what the specifics of some of the efforts you all have been engaging in. (00:09):
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Hilary Doe [00:06:39]: Yeah, no, I've been at it. Yep. We. I started at the May of 2023, so it'll be, I guess, two years here at the end of the month. But we've launched and over that course, the course of that time, a nationwide marketing campaign called You Can in Michigan. Folks can kind of check out what we're up to at TheMichiganLife.org if they're interested. And part of that campaign, of course, is storytelling and shifting perceptions about what it's like to live here in Michigan. But we've also launched as part of that a Michigan career portal. And I always mention that to folks because I think it's important piece of the puzzle where we list to date over 140,000 open jobs are listed on that portal right now. So that when folks come to our site, they get to make their decision informed by the big three, I call it. So they want to find great places. They can use a quiz on our site to look at communities across Michigan, more places with beautiful natural beauty, vibrant cities, and really find something that works for them. They can find great opportunities through the career portal to get connected to some of those open roles and they can find all the aspects of our communities that are welcoming. We have a cost of living calculus calculator, for example. We have ways to connect them to programming, including our recent Make My Home program, which is a first emanation talent retention and attraction program that helps folks interested in relocating or choosing to stay with down payments, student loan forgiveness, really locally tailored program benefits to help talent make their decisions about where they're going to call home. And our, our campaign is really intended to help folks make holistic decisions which are going to require them to think about each of those different elements all kind of in one place. So folks can check that out there. And that's been a real success. In only about 18 months, we've had over 40,000 people come through that campaign and say yes, they're interested in living and working in Michigan. And you know, that's a big number to get all the way from the millions of impressions all the way down the funnel and say, you know, yes, this is some an action that they want to want to take. So that's one of the things, you know, I'm most proud of. (00:10):
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Amanda Ellis [00:08:44]: Yeah, that's an impressive result. And I think I recently we had another Michigander on the podcast recently. She was actually sharing that you all had just recently as a state moved into some, some plus percentages of people coming in, which was amazing. (00:11):
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Hilary Doe [00:08:59]: Yes, no, it's been great to see. So you know, in tougher times, in sort of 2008 to the 2012s, Michigan, in a lot of places during those times of a little bit of economic uncertainty, we're seeing lots of out migration. Right. I mean in a given year, Michigan saw 50,000 folks unfortunately leave the state looking for opportunities or you know, different things in tougher moments. And so I mentioned that only to say how far we've come, you know, since we started this intentional effort, we've seen consistent growth over the last three census releases. 65% of Michigan counties grew last year. So it's really happening across our state. The city of Detroit has grown the last two years and that was the first time in 50 years that was true. So we're seeing it really, you know, catch up in our, in our biggest cities. And I think most importantly to underscore and I would encourage my counterparts and other places to look at this metric too. When you just look at total population, you can kind of lose the, what do they say, forest for the trees or you know, what have you. And I really like to look at our young adult population or our working age population in particular because long before you'll see population declines, you'll see labor force challenges. Right. Because folks retire and you need folks to fill those seats. And so when we look now at our young adult population, it's accelerating in growth faster than 45 other states. We're in the top five in the country now. And that was just not always the case. And I really think it's the result of this being a group project. You know, tens of thousands of Michiganders have been involved and of us taking this holistic approach, acknowledging that it's going to require policy change, it's going to require intentional partnership with our universities, our strategic employers, new teams like our talent action team at the MEDC that you know, builds programs for our fast growing industries like semiconductors and others. And it's going to require real storytelling and marketing because you can't make all those changes in the dark. You have to let folks know, you know, what you have to offer and, and tell your folks in state and across the country. (00:12):
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Amanda Ellis [00:10:59]: Yeah, and that's actually a great segue to something I definitely want to talk about which is that branding, storytelling, marketing piece of this. At Livability a lot we say like “talent attraction is really marketing.” Right? Because you can be doing all this cool stuff, nobody knows about it, not really going to help you. So I would love to hear your perspective on that and kind of what you've seen some of the most effective marketing approaches be. (00:13):
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Hilary Doe [00:11:20]: Yeah, well, we've tried, you know, a variety of things and I've been really surprised frankly at some that have been the most effective. You know, we did, we have a nationally, a national campaign that has really been well received and like I mentioned, that's you know, 40,000 plus folks have come through it. So we're proud of that. But in addition to that, we've also tried really targeted outbounding strategies, for example, leveraging systems like LinkedIn to outbound to are the alumni of Michigan universities, for example, who might be all across the country or who might be in specific industries where we know we have a lot of open jobs and our strategic employers want support in helping fill those roles. And when you do something like that, I wondered, hey, will folks think this feels like spam or you know, who knows. But we really tried to use best practices of making that communication feel as human as possible. It, you know, coming from my face and we've received really only positive feedback and 70%+ open rates and click through rates on those kinds of messages with folks letting us know, hey, you know what? I am sick of, you know, XYZ location that I've, I've been in for, for a certain amount of time and I do miss Michigan. So I would I guess suggest trying to borrow from other industries to be more on the vanguard of, you know, some of these strategies that maybe folks have historically used for outbound sales or you know, other things to think about telling your state's story in addition to the broad based, you know, traditional campaigns and out of home and you know, commercials and things like that. And that's really served us well. (00:14):
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Amanda Ellis [00:13:01]: Yeah. Any unusual tactics you could talk about there? Like I know I read about the roadshow pop ups. I thought that was an interesting one. If you could talk about those or others that you feel like are a little creative. (00:15):
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Hilary Doe [00:13:11]: Yeah. Well I appreciate you thinking that's creative. I hope so. We're trying it. We, we have done all kinds of what I would call experiential marketing and it's really based in data. I would underscore that we aren't doing, you know, a pop up for a pop up sake or a roadshow for a roadshow's sake. We're really looking at the data that tells us where Michiganders have moved to over the last couple generations or where folks are moving to our state from and have a really nuanced sense now of the archetypes of folks who are moving to different parts of our state so that we can really speak directly to them. And then leveraging that information, we, we did, we chose to some field trips for example, across our state where we had students from our universities load up on buses and come visit our big cities and our natural beauty and help them make their decisions on where they were going to call home. And we also planned some strategic road shows in places like Houston for example, where especially in southeast Michigan, a lot of folks have moved, moved to Houston over the last couple generations. And so they have some connection to our place. And we hosted a pop up there in partnership with a community partner called Black Tech Saturdays. I think they're the preeminent ecosystem for black and brown tech founders in the country. And we did it during Afro Tech and we just told Detroit's story as best we could because that's where Black Tech Saturdays is based. And as a result of that, we had over 1200 RSVPs, tons of folks really interested in what we had to offer. And over 80 of founders, as a result of those roadshows, chose to purchase their own plane tickets and fly to Michigan to come to the next Black Tech Saturday's event. And. And because that community is so important when you're growing a company, for example, and if we have it on offer here, then maybe that's where folks want to be. So I think those kinds of out of the box strategies that do a good job highlighting who you are and leveraging community partners can be a great way to do that, can really be effective even when the call to action is as high a bar as buy a plane ticket and fly on up. (00:16):
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Amanda Ellis [00:15:17]: Yeah, I love that. I see what you were saying earlier about kind of taking strategies that you would use in any marketing context and thinking about how you can apply it here. So what we were just talking about reminds me of like trade shows or conferences or those types of things. But then it's like, how do you use that to reach talent? Sort of thinking about ways to do that, so. (00:17):
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Hilary Doe [00:15:34]: That's absolutely right. Yeah. I think we can borrow from lots of industries. And again, you know, I, I for a long time was president of a tech company and I often find myself applying those kind of principles in this context. You know, the policy work is product work. The product is our great place, you know, and we can, as we get a better and better product, it'll be easier and easier to do our marketing. So all of it really should work together in a virtuous cycle that helps us drive growth long term. (00:18):
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Amanda Ellis [00:16:00]: You talked about some archetypes that you've noticed of the types of people that go to certain parts of the state. Can you talk about that a little bit more, what some of those look like? (00:19):
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Hilary Doe [00:16:10]: Yeah, absolutely. It's been really interesting to witness. And again, I'm sure this looks a little bit different for everybody, but here in Michigan, what we've seen, especially again among our young adult population. I'll zoom in on that. Are a couple different trends. One, the west side of our state historically has been strong for growth. And as a, you know, in terms of total population, they've been some of the fastest growing communities in this, in the state. And that's because of, you know, good, strong economic growth for some time. But in addition to that, we've noticed two kind of emerging trends. One are in northern Michigan and the west side of our state. You know, if you didn't know Already, Michigan has 3,000 miles of coastline, 20% of the, you know, world's fresh water around our state. So really, really beautiful beaches and great natural beauty. And we've noticed more and more folks, especially remote workers, moving to western Michigan and northern Michigan because they can choose where they'd like to call home. And they're choosing a place that's, you know, really, really beautiful to do that. And so that's been kind of interesting to witness and watch. And those communities have responded in kind. You know, there's a new blue tech innovation center being built to help attract those workers and also attract startups, for example, in that space to that community. And the other trend we've noticed is the impact of some of the investments we've made as a state in market or in manufacturing in new areas like clean energy I mentioned, but also in our fast growing tech ecosystem in the Detroit area. And we've seen young folks moving to Detroit and the surrounding communities as those opportunities have increased. And when you kind of look where folks are moving from, our Brooklynites, our LA folks are moving to, you know, Detroit, we see lots of folks from Colorado move to Traverse City and you can start to get a sense of who these folks are. Right. I moved actually back after I, I was a boomerang. I grew up in Michigan and I lived in New York for a while and moved back to Detroit. I call us our city mice. And then, you know, you might have folks who are in Colorado for the natural beauty who are choosing Traverse City as our next stop. So I think it's really important to start building those Personas and applying them to your growth strategy. (00:20):
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Amanda Ellis [00:18:20]: Yeah, I love that. And from a retention and boomerang standpoint, it's interesting what we're seeing because I think there are plenty of people, thinking about the last couple of decades even, that like actually wouldn't have minded staying like close to family or where they grew up. But maybe those opportunities just weren't there. And it seems like we're seeing that opportunity actually spread out a little bit more and be a little more available. Maybe that's just because I'm more aware of what's going on now. But in those smaller to midsize cities, which is really cool. And just with the weird environment we're in now with inflation and costs and all that, I think it's also getting a little bit harder for people to be as mobile, which you know, could be, I guess if you looked at it from keeping your community like sticky for people, could be a good thing. (00:21):
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Hilary Doe [00:19:05]: Yeah, if you can connect your talent that to opportunities locally. Yeah, folks will take advantage of it. Especially if you've done a good job doing that, listening and building a policy environment and you know, communities that are reflective of what folks want and need. What you were just alluding to, for what it's worth, bears out directly in data. You know, since 2000, we've seen more and more population of the folks moving, moving to places that aren't necessarily the largest job centers in the country, but are places that offer a balance of jobs and also some affordability and some quality of life. You know, a little bit of balance. Michigan has, you know, the fourth, fourth lowest home prices in the country. And when we think about our basket of goods and our specific offering, that's a part of it. We want folks to have really great economic opportunities. We want them to have a great amenity, rich quality of life, either from our natural beauty or our, you know, rich cultural offerings in our, in our cities. But we also want to maintain that cost of living and make sure that folks have access to be able to own a home here. For example, we did national poll asking folks 18 to 34 what would be most motivating for them to end when they consider a new place to call home. And we threw everything, all the options out there. You know, you've seen heard of programs that offer cash incentives to move, for example, things like that. We threw all kinds of things. It was spaghetti against the wall asking folks what they'd be interested in. And the most motivating factor for that whole set was access to a down payment on a home, being able to get closer to homeownership because folks really do want to have that option. And for a lot of people, imagining being able to get a down payment together is just, you know, beyond their scope currently. And so that was the most motivating. When you controlled for parents, the most motivating factor became affordable or free pre K or pre K and childcare. So that was really interesting for us to witness. And when we think about our policy priorities, really important to think about because each of those things has validity as just good policy, good housing policy, good education policy, but it might really also have validity as good economic policy from a talent attraction and retention perspective. (00:22):
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Amanda Ellis [00:21:18]: Yeah, so true. Talk a little bit. I don't think you've touched on this yet, but the Talent Action Team I know is something that has engaged a lot of employers in some of this strategy. Can you talk about what that is, how that's worked? I know you've touched on focused industries a little bit already, but maybe tying that in here, if it makes sense. (00:23):
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Hilary Doe [00:21:35]: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Our Talent Action Team. So where the growth office, broadly in my office, thinks about population growth across the whole state and works with our communities to, you know, retain or attract folks, irrespective of, you know, whether they're remote workers or, you know, their industry, our Talent Action Team is a bit more incisive. So they came about because our strategic employers, who are, for example, fast growing, really need folks with a certain skill set and need to ensure that we have that talent available right here in our state. And so the Talent Action Team has been, I should say, award winning. They've been received all kinds of national recognition for being as innovative as they are. And they work directly with our universities and our community colleges to build programs that specifically prepare talent for the kinds of skills they'll need in jobs that our strategic employers are offering. They also have created retention strategies, for example, something called the Michigander Scholarship that's been really popular here where students can graduate. And if they choose to accept a job here in Michigan in one of the, with one of those strategic employers, they can get a scholarship that starts to pay off their, their loans and their tuition for choosing to stay here in state. So that team's been really innovative in how they think about preparing the workforce of, of, you know, tomorrow, really, you know, in K12 systems and the university systems and then making sure that they're connected directly to an employer and a job opportunity so they stay right here in state and so that our employers get what they need in terms of a talent pipeline. (00:24):
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Amanda Ellis [00:23:10]: Love that. We talked a little at the top about this sort of statewide approach, but obviously there's a lot of local and regional EDOs and other types of organizations engaged in this work throughout the state. So how do you all stay on the same page? How do they help shape the direction and how does everyone work together mostly successfully it seems like? (00:25):
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Hilary Doe [00:23:29]: We actually just recently had a regional talent meeting where, you know, my office and the Talent Action team pulled together 33 regional partners, economic development organizations, CDCs and talent partners from across our state to come Together and share trends that we're seeing across the state, trends specific to their communities to let them know who's moving in, who's moving out, where there are gaps in the job market, for example, and to plan together about what their challenges are in the year to come so that we can prioritize our programming in response. You know, I think one of the challenges is that sometimes at the state level programs will get made and they aren't necessarily, you know, scratching the proverbial itch. Right. That folks have locally. And we want to make sure that our work is as possible, as much as possible in response to, you know, what folks are hearing on the ground and designed to, to help folks tackle those challenges. We've also started to provide more centralized infrastructure because at the local level, folks don't necessarily have the admin budget or the staff, frankly, to support some of these initiatives. So with our most recent program, Make My Home, for example, we're at the state providing the technology, the marketing, I should say the marketing to help them attract folks and retain folks, but then the technology to help them receive applications, you know, qualify those applicants, convert the applications, all of that, that might be really hard and onerous for a local community to do. So, you know, I'd say there's no exact, you know, formula for how to do this well, except to lock arms and be in really close communication and take our cues from the folks that are closest to the constituents they're trying to retain and the folks are trying to attract. And that's, that's exactly what we've tried to do, really provide locally driven, locally tailored programs and resources. (00:26):
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Amanda Ellis [00:25:23]: Love it. So one more question and then we'll move into a fun wrap up question. I was thinking while you were talking, we talked a lot about young professionals, students, recent graduates, people in the 18-30 or 18-35 cohort. And that's something you hear a lot like a lot of communities are especially interested in those groups. But what about, you know, you've got also a huge working age population between 35 and 65, and it seems like a lot of times those folks aren't viewed as, as shiny, I guess. And I would just love to hear, I don't know, your perspective on that? And maybe it's just that when you're in earlier phase of life, it's just typically true that making changes like moving around is just a little bit easier. But what are your thoughts on that? (00:27):
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Hilary Doe [00:26:06]: No, I think that it will be different for every community, who they should target and what community their comm- What their community specializes in, I would almost say. Right. And so we've really tried to encourage communities to build growth plans that are really unique to them. You know, so some communities have the infrastructure and amenities that'll appeal to a certain set and others, you know, to a, to a different set. So I really think we should take cues from kind of who we are and lean into that and not try to be anything else. And, and paired with that, I'd suggest folks look at the moments in folks lives when they're highly mobile, when they're most likely to make decisions. Either make decisions to go to leave and that we need to focus on retention or make decisions potentially to move in to a new place. Right. And so when we're thinking about highly mobile communities, people make those decisions upon graduation. So recent grads are a big cohort. That's probably why people talk about them a lot. But another moment in folks life when this happens a lot, lot is, you know, call it their second kid, you know, kind of on their. As they're building their families, folks might make the decision to move to a place where they can, that's a little more affordable or where they can buy a home or, you know, that has a different set of amenities. And those folks tend to be a little bit older, you know, maybe in their 30s or what have you, or late 30s and looking for a new place to call home. That's another moment. And then obviously upon retirement, and even if those folks aren't, aren't staying in the workforce, we should be cognizant of the fact that they can be a talent attractor too. Because as folks look for childcare support and things like that, it's not uncommon for people to move to be a little bit closer to wherever their parents land to, you know, build that family, family support. It can obviously go in either direction, but that's a relevant thing too and could be a great strategy for folks. Only other thing I'd mention is there are also highly mobile populations that aren't by age. Like remote workers are. Highly mobile population we of course know about. But also veterans are a highly mobile population and we think about that a lot In Michigan. In Michigan, we want to make sure veterans across the country know what we have on offer here because they're such a highly talented group of folks and, and we have a lot of open jobs. So that's maybe another strategy for some communities that's less age dependent. (00:28):
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Amanda Ellis [00:28:17]: Yeah, that's really interesting. I know. It's just when we talk about the workforce a lot, and some of the demographic issues that might be coming down the pipeline from a workforce standpoint. You know, things like the birth rate is down, a lot of people are retiring and sort of trying to figure that out. I often have just sort of personally thought that there was just so much focus on younger people, and there's, like, plenty of people of all age brackets that could use, like, being retrained in something else or just like being considered in a different way. So just something that I feel like I- (00:29):
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Hilary Doe [00:28:46]: No, totally. And when you're thinking about a comprehensive talent program, as we do in Michigan, it's not just a program about growth. Right. It's not just about retention and attraction. A critical piece of retention is folks being able to find opportunity in your place. And that sometimes means throughout the course of their life, being able to get connected to a new industry or get reskilled or retrained in a fast growing industry that maybe didn't even exist when they entered the workforce. And so if you're going to build a robust retention strategy, it really needs to include. One of my colleagues says, from twinkle to wrinkle, it really needs to include, you know, thoughtfulness about what resources folks will need throughout their whole career journey. And we really invest resources trying to think about how do we reskill, how do we get in front of folks, the new opportunities and new job sectors and invest in those kinds of programs as well. So that, you know, a piece of our retention strategy is a workforce development kind of training strategy. (00:30):
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Amanda Ellis [00:29:45]: Yeah. Love it. All right, fun questions. Tell us about the tattoo. I read about it in an article about you, and I was like, is that a job requirement for your team? Everyone has to… (00:31):
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Hilary Doe [00:29:56]: You know, the number of people… I will show you the tattoo. It's on my left wrist. I have both peninsulas on my left wrist. I like to say I have a. I like to have a little Michigan up my sleeve at all times. But no, was not a job requirement. I get that question a lot. Folks ask if I got it after I got the job, but no, I mentioned I was a boomerang. I grew up just south of Detroit and went to school here and then lived a handful of places but in New York City for most of that time. And while I was living there, I was really, you know, thinking about and trying to get home. And Michigan's been always been a real source of inspiration for me. Our people are so creative and innovative, and I was hungry to get home. And so I literally put Michigan up my sleeve. So I could look at it and kind of, you know, think about the future and make sure that. But you know, the end game was, was landing right here. So that's exactly what I did. And it just happened to, to work out that I also ended up in this role being a walking commercial for our great state. So I guess it all worked out well. (00:32):
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Amanda Ellis [00:30:56]: Well, while I don't get to ask every guest about the tattoo they have of their state…. (00:33):
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Hilary Doe [00:31:01]: Bummer. (00:34):
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Amanda Ellis [00:31:01]: But what I do ask every guest is, so you're based right outside Detroit, right? (00:35):
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Hilary Doe [00:31:05]: I'm in Detroit, actually. Right in the city. (00:36):
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Amanda Ellis [00:31:07]: Okay, so what's a bucket list item someone visiting there for the first time should do? (00:37):
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Hilary Doe [00:31:12]: Oh gosh, that's hard for me because I… so much great stuff to do here in our city. One thing I will plug, I suppose is Detroit is one of the few places where all of our pros, pro sports are right downtown and walkable to each other. So you can walk from the basketball arena to the, you know, baseball stadium to Ford Field and that makes for such an awesome environment during any season. So if you come to Detroit, I would look, whatever season it is, there's definitely a game and I would check out what's going on and try to try to catch up. Detroit just has an incredible sports culture. We broke the record for the NFL draft when it was here recently and you know, tons of stuff to do downtown so you can build a whole day around, you know, going to a sporting event here. (00:38):
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Amanda Ellis [00:32:01]: Awesome. Well, I know a lot of our listeners are going to be in Detroit actually for the IEDC conference later like early this fall. So that'll be good advice for them. But thank you so much. It was great having you. Great conversation. Thank you. (00:39):
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Hilary Doe [00:32:13]: Thank you so much. (00:40):
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Amanda Ellis [00:32:19]: Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast, where we take you Inside America's Best Cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate, and review this show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at aellis@livability.com. Until next time, from Livability, I'm Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America's most promising places. (00:41):
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Amanda Ellis [00:00:32]: That's the voice of Hilary Doe, Chief Growth Officer for the Michigan Economic Development Corporation. It's a trailblazing role designed to champion the state's comprehensive talent attraction and retention efforts, which have led to results like seeing 65% of Michigan counties grow last year and moving 40,000 people down the marketing funnel to a place where they say they're interested in living and working in Michigan. Stay tuned for tips to inform your own strategy and learn some things you may not know about a very cool state. Learn more about this podcast at livabilitymedia.com and with that, let's jump in. Welcome, Hillary, to Inside America's Best Cities. We are super excited to chat with you. You look like a total rock star when I was researching you for this interview, so I've been excited about it for a while. (00:01):
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Hilary Doe [00:01:20]: Oh, thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. (00:02):
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Amanda Ellis [00:01:24]: So we're going to be talking today about all things Michigan. It feels like you all are everywhere from a talent attract standpoint, just doing all the things. I think it's a great example for other states and other communities, just really hitting all the marks and kind of being everywhere. So we're going to be talking through that a little bit more, some of your strategies and hopefully have some really good takeaways for folks in our space. Can you start by sharing a bit about. I know there's a strong statewide approach for you all, which I do feel like is a little bit unique to have that statewide approach to talent attraction. How did that evolve? Talk us through that journey. (00:03):
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Hilary Doe [00:01:59]: Yeah, no, I think that's right, that it is a little bit unique. And I have had the honor over the last year since I was named Chief Growth Officer and Michigan's the first state in the nation to create a role like mine. So we are, I guess, sort of trailblazing in that regard. But since I took the role on, I've had the opportunity to talk to Michiganders, you know, across our state. And it's so evident when you have those conversations the way in which this is so critical as a foundation to our own economic strength and resilience. You know, our rural communities, this has been, you know, folks, they've been canaries in the coal mine for a long time in communities across the country who may have lost young adult population or have an aging workforce, for example. So kind of irrespective of your way in, the foundation is talent and building communities where our talent, who's already here, want to stay and build their futures. And hopefully when you've done that as well, sharing your story so you can be a beacon to folks across the country who, who might want to come and come and join you. And I really do think there's a place for everyone. So I don't think it's an inherently competitive, you know, task. I want to be in it with my partners and peers across the country identifying each of our distinctive competencies and, and what stories we're telling and what our policy strategies are to really grow our states to the benefit of all of our, our residents. (00:04):
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Amanda Ellis [00:03:19]: Yeah, and I like what you said about the competitive nature not necessarily being a problem because there's something for everybody, right? Different communities, different areas can appeal to different people and having that little space for everybody to find their spot and, you know, live their best life wherever they are. (00:05):
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Hilary Doe [00:03:35]: Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that's, I think that's absolutely right. And again, you know, when you do talent work, or at least the way that we're thinking about it here in the state, and this may be a bit unique, we, there are a few different buckets. There's sort of like three pillars, I suppose, to our talent work. We think about it from a policy perspective. How do you make the product that that is our great state a better and better place to call home. Leveraging public policy. Right. So that might be everything from Pre K for 4 year olds, which we passed here in the state, or community college access for all high school students, or transit investments, housing investments, those kinds of things. And again, that makes the product better and better one for all of our residents. We launch pilots and programs to help ensure that our residents get connected to the right industries and where there are open jobs to make sure that we're supporting our communities and their talent. Traction retention strategies and we do marketing. And each of those things is really critical for our whole story and to move the needle in achieving our goals. But what's the result of doing all those things to the point about it being not particularly competitive? I think the result is a better place for the folks that are here and a better place for all the young people that are growing up in our communities. First and foremost, a retention Strategy where we're building, you know, robust communities that are lively and, you know, really livable. And if that also means that folks across the country are attracted, great. You know, and inevitably, some of our folks might want to go try something else on too. Right. But. But I do think that there's something that's inherently positive about leaning in and doing that talent work, even for the folks who are already here. (00:06):
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Amanda Ellis [00:05:14]: Yes, I love that because I think a lot of communities face, and I don't… I don't know if you all do or not, but I know a lot face locals kind of being like, “what do you mean you want to bring more people here? We already have plenty of people.” But you make a good point about those efforts that go into that thought process, like it benefits everybody, even if you're born and raised where you're living and are still based there. (00:07):
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Hilary Doe [00:05:34]: Yeah, I've had great conversations along those lines. You know, I had the opportunity to talk to now over 20,000 Michiganders across the state, in addition to polling, you know, 6,000+ young people across the country. And some of those conversations certainly have started with, “you can grow Michigan, but don't grow it here.” Absolutely. But the construct of those conversations is, hey, we're going to sit here together and really allow our local communities to let us know what growth looks like to them. And with that foundation and that, like, kind of construct for the conversation, I've never gotten to the end of one where we didn't get to a really good place. Some places are poised for growth and they really want to attract as many folks as they can. And in other places, it's, you know, really sustainable community. They might need nurses and teachers and strategic attraction, for example, or retention. And. And then that's what will help them do. (00:08):
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Amanda Ellis [00:06:24]: Yeah. So the needs are different depending on the place. Definitely. Talk more about some of your overall goals in your role. I believe you've been in it for a couple of years. So some of what the specifics of some of the efforts you all have been engaging in. (00:09):
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Hilary Doe [00:06:39]: Yeah, no, I've been at it. Yep. We. I started at the May of 2023, so it'll be, I guess, two years here at the end of the month. But we've launched and over that course, the course of that time, a nationwide marketing campaign called You Can in Michigan. Folks can kind of check out what we're up to at TheMichiganLife.org if they're interested. And part of that campaign, of course, is storytelling and shifting perceptions about what it's like to live here in Michigan. But we've also launched as part of that a Michigan career portal. And I always mention that to folks because I think it's important piece of the puzzle where we list to date over 140,000 open jobs are listed on that portal right now. So that when folks come to our site, they get to make their decision informed by the big three, I call it. So they want to find great places. They can use a quiz on our site to look at communities across Michigan, more places with beautiful natural beauty, vibrant cities, and really find something that works for them. They can find great opportunities through the career portal to get connected to some of those open roles and they can find all the aspects of our communities that are welcoming. We have a cost of living calculus calculator, for example. We have ways to connect them to programming, including our recent Make My Home program, which is a first emanation talent retention and attraction program that helps folks interested in relocating or choosing to stay with down payments, student loan forgiveness, really locally tailored program benefits to help talent make their decisions about where they're going to call home. And our, our campaign is really intended to help folks make holistic decisions which are going to require them to think about each of those different elements all kind of in one place. So folks can check that out there. And that's been a real success. In only about 18 months, we've had over 40,000 people come through that campaign and say yes, they're interested in living and working in Michigan. And you know, that's a big number to get all the way from the millions of impressions all the way down the funnel and say, you know, yes, this is some an action that they want to want to take. So that's one of the things, you know, I'm most proud of. (00:10):
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Amanda Ellis [00:08:44]: Yeah, that's an impressive result. And I think I recently we had another Michigander on the podcast recently. She was actually sharing that you all had just recently as a state moved into some, some plus percentages of people coming in, which was amazing. (00:11):
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Hilary Doe [00:08:59]: Yes, no, it's been great to see. So you know, in tougher times, in sort of 2008 to the 2012s, Michigan, in a lot of places during those times of a little bit of economic uncertainty, we're seeing lots of out migration. Right. I mean in a given year, Michigan saw 50,000 folks unfortunately leave the state looking for opportunities or you know, different things in tougher moments. And so I mentioned that only to say how far we've come, you know, since we started this intentional effort, we've seen consistent growth over the last three census releases. 65% of Michigan counties grew last year. So it's really happening across our state. The city of Detroit has grown the last two years and that was the first time in 50 years that was true. So we're seeing it really, you know, catch up in our, in our biggest cities. And I think most importantly to underscore and I would encourage my counterparts and other places to look at this metric too. When you just look at total population, you can kind of lose the, what do they say, forest for the trees or you know, what have you. And I really like to look at our young adult population or our working age population in particular because long before you'll see population declines, you'll see labor force challenges. Right. Because folks retire and you need folks to fill those seats. And so when we look now at our young adult population, it's accelerating in growth faster than 45 other states. We're in the top five in the country now. And that was just not always the case. And I really think it's the result of this being a group project. You know, tens of thousands of Michiganders have been involved and of us taking this holistic approach, acknowledging that it's going to require policy change, it's going to require intentional partnership with our universities, our strategic employers, new teams like our talent action team at the MEDC that you know, builds programs for our fast growing industries like semiconductors and others. And it's going to require real storytelling and marketing because you can't make all those changes in the dark. You have to let folks know, you know, what you have to offer and, and tell your folks in state and across the country. (00:12):
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Amanda Ellis [00:10:59]: Yeah, and that's actually a great segue to something I definitely want to talk about which is that branding, storytelling, marketing piece of this. At Livability a lot we say like “talent attraction is really marketing.” Right? Because you can be doing all this cool stuff, nobody knows about it, not really going to help you. So I would love to hear your perspective on that and kind of what you've seen some of the most effective marketing approaches be. (00:13):
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Hilary Doe [00:11:20]: Yeah, well, we've tried, you know, a variety of things and I've been really surprised frankly at some that have been the most effective. You know, we did, we have a nationally, a national campaign that has really been well received and like I mentioned, that's you know, 40,000 plus folks have come through it. So we're proud of that. But in addition to that, we've also tried really targeted outbounding strategies, for example, leveraging systems like LinkedIn to outbound to are the alumni of Michigan universities, for example, who might be all across the country or who might be in specific industries where we know we have a lot of open jobs and our strategic employers want support in helping fill those roles. And when you do something like that, I wondered, hey, will folks think this feels like spam or you know, who knows. But we really tried to use best practices of making that communication feel as human as possible. It, you know, coming from my face and we've received really only positive feedback and 70%+ open rates and click through rates on those kinds of messages with folks letting us know, hey, you know what? I am sick of, you know, XYZ location that I've, I've been in for, for a certain amount of time and I do miss Michigan. So I would I guess suggest trying to borrow from other industries to be more on the vanguard of, you know, some of these strategies that maybe folks have historically used for outbound sales or you know, other things to think about telling your state's story in addition to the broad based, you know, traditional campaigns and out of home and you know, commercials and things like that. And that's really served us well. (00:14):
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Amanda Ellis [00:13:01]: Yeah. Any unusual tactics you could talk about there? Like I know I read about the roadshow pop ups. I thought that was an interesting one. If you could talk about those or others that you feel like are a little creative. (00:15):
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Hilary Doe [00:13:11]: Yeah. Well I appreciate you thinking that's creative. I hope so. We're trying it. We, we have done all kinds of what I would call experiential marketing and it's really based in data. I would underscore that we aren't doing, you know, a pop up for a pop up sake or a roadshow for a roadshow's sake. We're really looking at the data that tells us where Michiganders have moved to over the last couple generations or where folks are moving to our state from and have a really nuanced sense now of the archetypes of folks who are moving to different parts of our state so that we can really speak directly to them. And then leveraging that information, we, we did, we chose to some field trips for example, across our state where we had students from our universities load up on buses and come visit our big cities and our natural beauty and help them make their decisions on where they were going to call home. And we also planned some strategic road shows in places like Houston for example, where especially in southeast Michigan, a lot of folks have moved, moved to Houston over the last couple generations. And so they have some connection to our place. And we hosted a pop up there in partnership with a community partner called Black Tech Saturdays. I think they're the preeminent ecosystem for black and brown tech founders in the country. And we did it during Afro Tech and we just told Detroit's story as best we could because that's where Black Tech Saturdays is based. And as a result of that, we had over 1200 RSVPs, tons of folks really interested in what we had to offer. And over 80 of founders, as a result of those roadshows, chose to purchase their own plane tickets and fly to Michigan to come to the next Black Tech Saturday's event. And. And because that community is so important when you're growing a company, for example, and if we have it on offer here, then maybe that's where folks want to be. So I think those kinds of out of the box strategies that do a good job highlighting who you are and leveraging community partners can be a great way to do that, can really be effective even when the call to action is as high a bar as buy a plane ticket and fly on up. (00:16):
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Amanda Ellis [00:15:17]: Yeah, I love that. I see what you were saying earlier about kind of taking strategies that you would use in any marketing context and thinking about how you can apply it here. So what we were just talking about reminds me of like trade shows or conferences or those types of things. But then it's like, how do you use that to reach talent? Sort of thinking about ways to do that, so. (00:17):
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Hilary Doe [00:15:34]: That's absolutely right. Yeah. I think we can borrow from lots of industries. And again, you know, I, I for a long time was president of a tech company and I often find myself applying those kind of principles in this context. You know, the policy work is product work. The product is our great place, you know, and we can, as we get a better and better product, it'll be easier and easier to do our marketing. So all of it really should work together in a virtuous cycle that helps us drive growth long term. (00:18):
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Amanda Ellis [00:16:00]: You talked about some archetypes that you've noticed of the types of people that go to certain parts of the state. Can you talk about that a little bit more, what some of those look like? (00:19):
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Hilary Doe [00:16:10]: Yeah, absolutely. It's been really interesting to witness. And again, I'm sure this looks a little bit different for everybody, but here in Michigan, what we've seen, especially again among our young adult population. I'll zoom in on that. Are a couple different trends. One, the west side of our state historically has been strong for growth. And as a, you know, in terms of total population, they've been some of the fastest growing communities in this, in the state. And that's because of, you know, good, strong economic growth for some time. But in addition to that, we've noticed two kind of emerging trends. One are in northern Michigan and the west side of our state. You know, if you didn't know Already, Michigan has 3,000 miles of coastline, 20% of the, you know, world's fresh water around our state. So really, really beautiful beaches and great natural beauty. And we've noticed more and more folks, especially remote workers, moving to western Michigan and northern Michigan because they can choose where they'd like to call home. And they're choosing a place that's, you know, really, really beautiful to do that. And so that's been kind of interesting to witness and watch. And those communities have responded in kind. You know, there's a new blue tech innovation center being built to help attract those workers and also attract startups, for example, in that space to that community. And the other trend we've noticed is the impact of some of the investments we've made as a state in market or in manufacturing in new areas like clean energy I mentioned, but also in our fast growing tech ecosystem in the Detroit area. And we've seen young folks moving to Detroit and the surrounding communities as those opportunities have increased. And when you kind of look where folks are moving from, our Brooklynites, our LA folks are moving to, you know, Detroit, we see lots of folks from Colorado move to Traverse City and you can start to get a sense of who these folks are. Right. I moved actually back after I, I was a boomerang. I grew up in Michigan and I lived in New York for a while and moved back to Detroit. I call us our city mice. And then, you know, you might have folks who are in Colorado for the natural beauty who are choosing Traverse City as our next stop. So I think it's really important to start building those Personas and applying them to your growth strategy. (00:20):
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Amanda Ellis [00:18:20]: Yeah, I love that. And from a retention and boomerang standpoint, it's interesting what we're seeing because I think there are plenty of people, thinking about the last couple of decades even, that like actually wouldn't have minded staying like close to family or where they grew up. But maybe those opportunities just weren't there. And it seems like we're seeing that opportunity actually spread out a little bit more and be a little more available. Maybe that's just because I'm more aware of what's going on now. But in those smaller to midsize cities, which is really cool. And just with the weird environment we're in now with inflation and costs and all that, I think it's also getting a little bit harder for people to be as mobile, which you know, could be, I guess if you looked at it from keeping your community like sticky for people, could be a good thing. (00:21):
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Hilary Doe [00:19:05]: Yeah, if you can connect your talent that to opportunities locally. Yeah, folks will take advantage of it. Especially if you've done a good job doing that, listening and building a policy environment and you know, communities that are reflective of what folks want and need. What you were just alluding to, for what it's worth, bears out directly in data. You know, since 2000, we've seen more and more population of the folks moving, moving to places that aren't necessarily the largest job centers in the country, but are places that offer a balance of jobs and also some affordability and some quality of life. You know, a little bit of balance. Michigan has, you know, the fourth, fourth lowest home prices in the country. And when we think about our basket of goods and our specific offering, that's a part of it. We want folks to have really great economic opportunities. We want them to have a great amenity, rich quality of life, either from our natural beauty or our, you know, rich cultural offerings in our, in our cities. But we also want to maintain that cost of living and make sure that folks have access to be able to own a home here. For example, we did national poll asking folks 18 to 34 what would be most motivating for them to end when they consider a new place to call home. And we threw everything, all the options out there. You know, you've seen heard of programs that offer cash incentives to move, for example, things like that. We threw all kinds of things. It was spaghetti against the wall asking folks what they'd be interested in. And the most motivating factor for that whole set was access to a down payment on a home, being able to get closer to homeownership because folks really do want to have that option. And for a lot of people, imagining being able to get a down payment together is just, you know, beyond their scope currently. And so that was the most motivating. When you controlled for parents, the most motivating factor became affordable or free pre K or pre K and childcare. So that was really interesting for us to witness. And when we think about our policy priorities, really important to think about because each of those things has validity as just good policy, good housing policy, good education policy, but it might really also have validity as good economic policy from a talent attraction and retention perspective. (00:22):
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Amanda Ellis [00:21:18]: Yeah, so true. Talk a little bit. I don't think you've touched on this yet, but the Talent Action Team I know is something that has engaged a lot of employers in some of this strategy. Can you talk about what that is, how that's worked? I know you've touched on focused industries a little bit already, but maybe tying that in here, if it makes sense. (00:23):
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Hilary Doe [00:21:35]: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Our Talent Action Team. So where the growth office, broadly in my office, thinks about population growth across the whole state and works with our communities to, you know, retain or attract folks, irrespective of, you know, whether they're remote workers or, you know, their industry, our Talent Action Team is a bit more incisive. So they came about because our strategic employers, who are, for example, fast growing, really need folks with a certain skill set and need to ensure that we have that talent available right here in our state. And so the Talent Action Team has been, I should say, award winning. They've been received all kinds of national recognition for being as innovative as they are. And they work directly with our universities and our community colleges to build programs that specifically prepare talent for the kinds of skills they'll need in jobs that our strategic employers are offering. They also have created retention strategies, for example, something called the Michigander Scholarship that's been really popular here where students can graduate. And if they choose to accept a job here in Michigan in one of the, with one of those strategic employers, they can get a scholarship that starts to pay off their, their loans and their tuition for choosing to stay here in state. So that team's been really innovative in how they think about preparing the workforce of, of, you know, tomorrow, really, you know, in K12 systems and the university systems and then making sure that they're connected directly to an employer and a job opportunity so they stay right here in state and so that our employers get what they need in terms of a talent pipeline. (00:24):
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Amanda Ellis [00:23:10]: Love that. We talked a little at the top about this sort of statewide approach, but obviously there's a lot of local and regional EDOs and other types of organizations engaged in this work throughout the state. So how do you all stay on the same page? How do they help shape the direction and how does everyone work together mostly successfully it seems like? (00:25):
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Hilary Doe [00:23:29]: We actually just recently had a regional talent meeting where, you know, my office and the Talent Action team pulled together 33 regional partners, economic development organizations, CDCs and talent partners from across our state to come Together and share trends that we're seeing across the state, trends specific to their communities to let them know who's moving in, who's moving out, where there are gaps in the job market, for example, and to plan together about what their challenges are in the year to come so that we can prioritize our programming in response. You know, I think one of the challenges is that sometimes at the state level programs will get made and they aren't necessarily, you know, scratching the proverbial itch. Right. That folks have locally. And we want to make sure that our work is as possible, as much as possible in response to, you know, what folks are hearing on the ground and designed to, to help folks tackle those challenges. We've also started to provide more centralized infrastructure because at the local level, folks don't necessarily have the admin budget or the staff, frankly, to support some of these initiatives. So with our most recent program, Make My Home, for example, we're at the state providing the technology, the marketing, I should say the marketing to help them attract folks and retain folks, but then the technology to help them receive applications, you know, qualify those applicants, convert the applications, all of that, that might be really hard and onerous for a local community to do. So, you know, I'd say there's no exact, you know, formula for how to do this well, except to lock arms and be in really close communication and take our cues from the folks that are closest to the constituents they're trying to retain and the folks are trying to attract. And that's, that's exactly what we've tried to do, really provide locally driven, locally tailored programs and resources. (00:26):
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Amanda Ellis [00:25:23]: Love it. So one more question and then we'll move into a fun wrap up question. I was thinking while you were talking, we talked a lot about young professionals, students, recent graduates, people in the 18-30 or 18-35 cohort. And that's something you hear a lot like a lot of communities are especially interested in those groups. But what about, you know, you've got also a huge working age population between 35 and 65, and it seems like a lot of times those folks aren't viewed as, as shiny, I guess. And I would just love to hear, I don't know, your perspective on that? And maybe it's just that when you're in earlier phase of life, it's just typically true that making changes like moving around is just a little bit easier. But what are your thoughts on that? (00:27):
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Hilary Doe [00:26:06]: No, I think that it will be different for every community, who they should target and what community their comm- What their community specializes in, I would almost say. Right. And so we've really tried to encourage communities to build growth plans that are really unique to them. You know, so some communities have the infrastructure and amenities that'll appeal to a certain set and others, you know, to a, to a different set. So I really think we should take cues from kind of who we are and lean into that and not try to be anything else. And, and paired with that, I'd suggest folks look at the moments in folks lives when they're highly mobile, when they're most likely to make decisions. Either make decisions to go to leave and that we need to focus on retention or make decisions potentially to move in to a new place. Right. And so when we're thinking about highly mobile communities, people make those decisions upon graduation. So recent grads are a big cohort. That's probably why people talk about them a lot. But another moment in folks life when this happens a lot, lot is, you know, call it their second kid, you know, kind of on their. As they're building their families, folks might make the decision to move to a place where they can, that's a little more affordable or where they can buy a home or, you know, that has a different set of amenities. And those folks tend to be a little bit older, you know, maybe in their 30s or what have you, or late 30s and looking for a new place to call home. That's another moment. And then obviously upon retirement, and even if those folks aren't, aren't staying in the workforce, we should be cognizant of the fact that they can be a talent attractor too. Because as folks look for childcare support and things like that, it's not uncommon for people to move to be a little bit closer to wherever their parents land to, you know, build that family, family support. It can obviously go in either direction, but that's a relevant thing too and could be a great strategy for folks. Only other thing I'd mention is there are also highly mobile populations that aren't by age. Like remote workers are. Highly mobile population we of course know about. But also veterans are a highly mobile population and we think about that a lot In Michigan. In Michigan, we want to make sure veterans across the country know what we have on offer here because they're such a highly talented group of folks and, and we have a lot of open jobs. So that's maybe another strategy for some communities that's less age dependent. (00:28):
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Amanda Ellis [00:28:17]: Yeah, that's really interesting. I know. It's just when we talk about the workforce a lot, and some of the demographic issues that might be coming down the pipeline from a workforce standpoint. You know, things like the birth rate is down, a lot of people are retiring and sort of trying to figure that out. I often have just sort of personally thought that there was just so much focus on younger people, and there's, like, plenty of people of all age brackets that could use, like, being retrained in something else or just like being considered in a different way. So just something that I feel like I- (00:29):
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Hilary Doe [00:28:46]: No, totally. And when you're thinking about a comprehensive talent program, as we do in Michigan, it's not just a program about growth. Right. It's not just about retention and attraction. A critical piece of retention is folks being able to find opportunity in your place. And that sometimes means throughout the course of their life, being able to get connected to a new industry or get reskilled or retrained in a fast growing industry that maybe didn't even exist when they entered the workforce. And so if you're going to build a robust retention strategy, it really needs to include. One of my colleagues says, from twinkle to wrinkle, it really needs to include, you know, thoughtfulness about what resources folks will need throughout their whole career journey. And we really invest resources trying to think about how do we reskill, how do we get in front of folks, the new opportunities and new job sectors and invest in those kinds of programs as well. So that, you know, a piece of our retention strategy is a workforce development kind of training strategy. (00:30):
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Amanda Ellis [00:29:45]: Yeah. Love it. All right, fun questions. Tell us about the tattoo. I read about it in an article about you, and I was like, is that a job requirement for your team? Everyone has to… (00:31):
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Hilary Doe [00:29:56]: You know, the number of people… I will show you the tattoo. It's on my left wrist. I have both peninsulas on my left wrist. I like to say I have a. I like to have a little Michigan up my sleeve at all times. But no, was not a job requirement. I get that question a lot. Folks ask if I got it after I got the job, but no, I mentioned I was a boomerang. I grew up just south of Detroit and went to school here and then lived a handful of places but in New York City for most of that time. And while I was living there, I was really, you know, thinking about and trying to get home. And Michigan's been always been a real source of inspiration for me. Our people are so creative and innovative, and I was hungry to get home. And so I literally put Michigan up my sleeve. So I could look at it and kind of, you know, think about the future and make sure that. But you know, the end game was, was landing right here. So that's exactly what I did. And it just happened to, to work out that I also ended up in this role being a walking commercial for our great state. So I guess it all worked out well. (00:32):
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Amanda Ellis [00:30:56]: Well, while I don't get to ask every guest about the tattoo they have of their state…. (00:33):
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Hilary Doe [00:31:01]: Bummer. (00:34):
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Amanda Ellis [00:31:01]: But what I do ask every guest is, so you're based right outside Detroit, right? (00:35):
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Hilary Doe [00:31:05]: I'm in Detroit, actually. Right in the city. (00:36):
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Amanda Ellis [00:31:07]: Okay, so what's a bucket list item someone visiting there for the first time should do? (00:37):
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Hilary Doe [00:31:12]: Oh gosh, that's hard for me because I… so much great stuff to do here in our city. One thing I will plug, I suppose is Detroit is one of the few places where all of our pros, pro sports are right downtown and walkable to each other. So you can walk from the basketball arena to the, you know, baseball stadium to Ford Field and that makes for such an awesome environment during any season. So if you come to Detroit, I would look, whatever season it is, there's definitely a game and I would check out what's going on and try to try to catch up. Detroit just has an incredible sports culture. We broke the record for the NFL draft when it was here recently and you know, tons of stuff to do downtown so you can build a whole day around, you know, going to a sporting event here. (00:38):
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Amanda Ellis [00:32:01]: Awesome. Well, I know a lot of our listeners are going to be in Detroit actually for the IEDC conference later like early this fall. So that'll be good advice for them. But thank you so much. It was great having you. Great conversation. Thank you. (00:39):
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Hilary Doe [00:32:13]: Thank you so much. (00:40):
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Amanda Ellis [00:32:19]: Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast, where we take you Inside America's Best Cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate, and review this show wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at aellis@livability.com. Until next time, from Livability, I'm Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America's most promising places. (00:41):
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