December 10, 2024 • 21 mins
AI has been a hot button topic in 2024, to say the least. In our interview with Chmura’s Mike Chmura, we look at the data on AI jobs to offer a better understanding of the AI job market especially for economic developers looking to stay ahead of the curve.
Resources mentioned:
At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs.
Be sure to subscribe so you’re alerted when we release new episodes. Learn more about us at LivabilityMedia.com and follow us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email host Amanda Ellis at aellis@livability.com.
Inside America’s Best Cities is produced by SpeakEasy Productions.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Mike [00:00:07]:
(00:01):
When you think of AI jobs, of course you're thinking of the big tech companies, but I'm looking at the top 10 now. And in the top 10 you have companies like Deloitte, they're actually number two, and PWC, so two of the largest consultancies. Then you also have two of the largest banks. So we have JP Morgan Chase and Capital One also breaking the top 10. And that's just a signal of what's to come more, as more and more of these more traditional industries really see the value in having this AI capability within their company, that's only going to continue to be enhanced.
Amanda [00:00:43]:
That's the voice of Mike Chmura, Chief of Staff at Chmura Economics and Analytics. Mike sheds light on how Chmura uses their Jobs EQ platform to track AI jobs and identify the cities with both the highest demand and the most abundant talent pools. Keep listening for a better understanding of the AI job market, implications for talent attraction and retention, plus more. You can learn more about this podcast at livabilitymedia.com, but before we get into this episode, a quick word from our sponsor, EDO Marketplace. Your one stop shop for economic development ,EDOMarketplace.net connects economic and community development organizations to the products and services you need to fulfill your mission. It's the only online directory of its type with over 50 categories, reviews, and hundreds of business listings in one place for you to peruse. For companies and consultants supporting economic development organizations, EDO Marketplace is a powerful tool for gaining visibility. Find out more at EDOmarketplace.net and with that, let's jump in.
Amanda Ellis [00:01:51]:
Thank you so much, Mike, for joining us today on Inside America's Best Cities. Super excited to have you talk a little bit more about Chmura, some of the research you all have done, and lots of fun things.
Mike [00:02:01]:
Awesome. Yes, thank you so much, Amanda. It's a pleasure to be here.
Amanda Ellis [00:02:05]:
Well, a big part of our topic today is some recent research you all have done on AI jobs that we're going to be talking about. Could you start us off by sharing how do you all actually define that? What are those skill sets look like an AI job?
Mike [00:02:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great question and it really depends on what you choose to define an AI job as. And for our recent research, we really wanted to dig down into the jobs that are responsible for AI creation and management, so the people that actually make the tools. So we're trying to dig down into that skillset as much as possible. So for both our resume and job posting searches, which I'm sure we'll talk more about in a bit. But we included a lot of relevant keywords like generative AI and machine learning and things of that nature. But then we also filtered on occupation, so specifically the group of occupations that would have this skill set. So you think of your software developers, computer engineers, so on and so forth in that vein. So we're not really looking at the job postings for an AI company that, you know, for example, you could be have a sales or marketing role within an AI product. That's not really what we were looking for with this definition in the research that we just did. A full definition of how we did this in our research can be found on our blog at chmura.com. But the great thing is that our job postings and resume searches allow you to customize this search however you want. So if we did want to search for salespeople, for example, who have experience selling AI products or features, we would be able to find that.
Amanda Ellis [00:03:36]:
Interesting, and I'll make sure to link that up in the show notes. So what you were looking at, though, is the best MSAs, the best cities and communities areas essentially for the jobs. Well, for people looking for people to fill those jobs, and for the talent themselves. So what differentiated those two categories, would you say, in terms of like, the criteria you were looking at?
Mike [00:03:58]:
Yeah, yeah. So I think, you know, as economists, we really like to think of a lot of things in the world in terms of supply and demand. So a common way of doing this when we're looking at labor market questions would be to use Bureau of Labor Statistics data or other standard data sources. But this is a bit more complicated because we're searching for a specific skill set, not necessarily a defined occupation, and also a skill that's rapidly gaining in prevalence. And, you know, the term AI really kind of exploded within the last two years here. So the government data with their lags and not being specific in that skill set isn't necessarily sufficient for this analysis. But we can use job postings as a proxy for demand and then resumes as a proxy for supply. So this measure, it's not perfect because, for example, not everyone has an online resume and not every job posting will turn into one single job, but it's accurate directionally and by proxy. Now, for the research that we actually did, which we ranked MSAs, as you said, Amanda, on their supply and demand and kind of differentiated which cities are best conditions for employers and employees. So, for example, a high supply, low demand environment would be best for employers. So this would mean more resumes than job postings in that region. And then the opposite would be true in some cases for employees. It really all comes down to bargaining power here, I think. Just take the tech hubs for example on the west coast. Yes, you may see a lot of opportunity there, but the area is also full of AI talent. So that might make it a bit more challenging for some of the job seekers in that region. But then on the opposite side, employers may have harder times in cities like Washington, D.C. or Dallas, Texas, which the demand for AI jobs there is growing very fast. But that supply base has not really been built up. This means that companies in these areas may have to start offering higher wages, perhaps, or start aiming to poach talent from other locations. This would be a more favorable environment for a job seeker, in that environment.
Amanda Ellis [00:06:05]:
That makes sense. Always that push and pull of what are the employers going to have to provide and what can employees negotiate for, so.
Mike [00:06:14]:
Definitely.
Amanda Ellis [00:06:15]:
What were some of the MSAs that rose to the top? You mentioned a few just now, but what were some of those on each side and were you surprised by them or was it about what you thought it would be?
(00:22):
Mike [00:06:26]:
Yeah, yeah. So I'll start just saying in terms of the big cities, perhaps that have the best supply to demand ratios. So this means more resumes than job postings. The big cities that stand out here are unsurprisingly of course, some of those west coast tech hubs. So Seattle and San Francisco are examples. But then you also have Boston, Massachusetts and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in the east that also came in relatively high. What was maybe initially most surprising to me, but perhaps it shouldn't have been, was the supply of AI talent in college towns. So this actually makes sense when you think about it a bit, because some of these college towns don't- do not necessarily have a large industry presence right there, but the universities within them have some of the top notch computer science programs within the nation and are clearly adopting the AI wave. And there's a lot of talent there that is near to entering the workforce. Some of those college towns have some of the most lopsided supply to demand ratios in the positive supply sense. On the other side, it was kind of surprising. Some of those Texas cities like Houston and Dallas came in pretty low. Washington D.C. was also one of the biggest cities that came in pretty low. So you know, it kind of makes sense. They are big cities, but maybe not the most technology focused, at least in their history. I think it is in some of those, especially the Texas cities. It is becoming that way more and more. But that's what we found on that side of the coin
Amanda [00:07:56]:
That makes sense. That is interesting. And the college town one, you're right. When you think about it more, it makes sense. A lot of our listeners, of course are people in smaller and mid-sized cities who are thinking about workforce town attraction, you know, how to retain people in their community, how to get new people coming there, engaging with their communities and their jobs. So it seems like there could be some opportunity with some of the things we're talking about for some of those communities. Like I was even thinking about, you know, maybe some specific recruitment efforts to some of those places that have that glut kind of happening and sort of that messaging around, “Well, here's maybe a place you haven't thought of or maybe your quality of life could be better and cheaper and here are some places you could work.” Can you expand on that a bit on any thoughts with that and how communities can harness some of this?
Mike [00:08:40]:
Yeah, yeah. And I, and I think I'll just jump off of your point there, Amanda, on the point that well, yes, there is some opportunity to take advantage of, but it's also not just the big cities that are going to need this AI talent. We see it more and more and this is only going to continue to evolve as time goes on. But AI talent I really believe, and a lot of experts in the space believe that it's just going to become more important that every single person in the organization, even if they're not making AI, it's important that they know how to use it and leverage it to become more efficient. And then I guess the other thing I'd say from a talent attraction and retention side is, you know, for a long time the focus from workforce developers is to make sure you maintain your occupation equilibrium within an area. So for example, you know, making sure you have enough doctors, mechanics, cybersecurity professionals, things of that nature. And this is still super important. But what also is important is to track is your skill supply. There's plenty of opportunity here. As you said, if your region has a low supply of workers who have knowledge of a certain skill, this is perhaps a signal to enhance that talent pipeline efforts. And whether that's with your local educational system or trying to attract talent from out of the region.
Amanda Ellis [00:09:58]:
You made a good point too about these AI skill components being something that aren't going to be exclusive to tech jobs or tech companies. And I know you had mentioned that in your research, you had seen that the employer mix for this isn't just those tech companies, but also other types of companies. Could you expand on that?
Mike [00:10:17]:
Some yes, yeah. And that's, I think, something that's really become evident within the past couple years here. When you think of AI jobs, of course you're thinking of the big tech companies, but I'm looking at the top 10 now. And, and in the top 10 you have companies like Deloitte, they're actually number two, and PWC, so two of the largest consultancies. Then you also have two of the largest banks. So we have JP Morgan Chase and Capital One also breaking the top 10. And that's just a signal of what's to come more as more and more of these more traditional industries really see the value in having this AI capability within their company that's only going to continue to be enhanced.
Amanda Ellis [00:10:58]:
How do you think the AI job market will evolve… Continue to evolve in the next few years?
Mike [00:11:03]:
Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think that this is a bit of a tough question, but if I'd have to bet, I'd say that we'll probably move towards equilibrium in this area as the next few years pass. You know that the talent pipeline in colleges is picking up and software developers, mathematicians, they're learning these skills on the job. So you didn't necessarily have to learn it in college or with your degree. It's what employers are pushing for right now. So people are learning that on the job. So I do expect that demand may continue to outpace supply in the near term, but I would expect that gap to narrow with time.
Amanda Ellis [00:11:41]:
So a lot of the data we've talked about that you've gathered for this came from your Chmura's JobsEQ platform. Right. Which from what I understand, aggregates online resumes, job posting, pulls data from all of those things. Can you share a little bit more about that and like what types of data users can glean? I think that'll be helpful to inform our last couple of questions.
Mike [00:12:01]:
Of course, yeah. So I think as you said, job postings and resumes, which we talked about, they are large parts, but actually I'd say that the majority of our data is government provided workforce, education and demographics data. So data from the census, BLS, and a large number of these other sources. And our value add here is that we make it easy to find and analyze and pull all of this data in one spot. And for anyone dealing with these government data sets before, I'm sure, you know, it's quite a pain to find the data at the specificity you need, like in the time that you needed. So that's kind of where our platform comes in to solve that issue. The other thing I'll mention is that government data also often includes gaps and non-disclosures which we clean up within Jobs eq and our data goes down to the block level. So really no ask is too specific for our tool when it comes to these data. We also have a lot of useful tools like report builders and mapping tools and custom demand analyses like our new housing demand application. But yeah, I think that's a good overview. I could of course talk all day about all of the data that we have, but I think I'll leave it at that point for now.
Amanda Ellis [00:13:13]:
What are some of the common ways that you see your economic development group clients utilizing this? And feel free to include a case study or two if that's helpful.
Mike [00:13:22]:
(00:43):
Yeah, so I'd say that there's, at least from a companywide perspective, I think that there are two areas that our company supports. One is of course with being the primary data provider through the SaaS platform, JobsEQ. And I'm sure that some of your listeners may know of it or perhaps even use it. It's used by hundreds of economic development, workforce, chambers of commerce, and other organizations around the country like this. And it can be used for a variety of things. You know, preparing your annual reports or status updates. We help some communities across the nation track certain metrics that they're trying to improve on. Site selection is also a big thing. Making sure that you actually have the workforce or are prepared for what it takes to get the workforce if you're chasing after a new economic development project. And the second part that our company helps with is we also have a consulting side. We have a very talented team of experienced economic consultants which help with a variety of projects. We do dozens of economic and fiscal impact studies each year, for example. We also do workforce studies, strategic planning, feasibility studies, you name it on that side. And then I guess one tangible example I could talk about, Amanda's, that I was happy to be a part of, specifically as it relates to talent attraction and retention, was a workshop that we did with the Eastern Carolina Council in New Bern, North Carolina, which was actually a pro bono project that we collaborated with IEDC on which we worked with local workforce boards, EDOs and local government stakeholders to analyze the region's labor supply and recommend some strategies for talent attraction and retention growth there. So that was a really nice experience. And we do similar projects for EDOs across the nation.
Amanda Ellis [00:15:12]:
What would you say you view as the most in demand career fields in general across the country right now?
Mike [00:15:19]:
You know, what comes in as the top one, maybe not so surprisingly, are software and web developers actually have one of the largest supply gaps nationwide. And this gap of course is even wider when we're talking about those with specific AI experience. But other prominent gaps include healthcare, especially registered nurses and nurse practitioners. I'm looking now, and over the next 10 years we're expecting the nation to have average annual gap of over 15,000 RNs, nearly 8,000 nurse practitioners, nearly 9,000 medical and health services managers. So that's certainly a spot for concern. And there's a lot of demand for those occupations. And this of course will only continue to grow as our population ages. And then the last one I'd mention is maintenance and repair workers. If you're wondering why your personal or organization's maintenance costs have skyrocketed in the last couple of years, apart from inflation, it's also because of the shortage of workers in fields such as that.
Amanda Ellis [00:16:22]:
So backtracking a little bit to some of the AI data we were talking about, what typically would you see in job postings for that, for educational background that they would want? Since that's so new, maybe some schools are having some emerging programs around it?
Mike [00:16:40]:
Yeah, you are correct that some schools are starting to actually have like specific artificial intelligence majors or machine learning majors. Right. But really it's going to be on your computer and software developer side where they have the background, they have the knowledge to learn this skill, but it's that. But then it's also mathematicians and statisticians which also they have the background knowledge. Perhaps they didn't learn this exact method within school or an outdated version of that, but they still have the necessary skillset to be trained up and to start to employ some of these newer systems.
Amanda Ellis [00:17:15]:
Gotcha. And the flip side of the question we were just talking about in terms of most in demand fields, what about fields you're seeing where there are way more candidates than jobs that are oversaturated?
Mike [00:17:30]:
Well, and some of it is actually maybe because of AI that some of these jobs are becoming oversaturated. But you send just an automation in general. But some of the largest gaps we see are cashiers and fast food workers and things of that nature where I mean you go into any grocery store now and most of the checkout aisles are self checkout and same thing at a lot of these fast food establishments. So that's some of the highest that we see there. And that's also kind of being a consequence of not necessarily AI in specific, but this technological and automation revolution that's going on within the country. Right now.
Amanda Ellis [00:18:11]:
Yeah. And I'm sure some just social and societal impacts too. Because some of those jobs you just mentioned, like the cashier example, I mean those used to be things a lot of high school students did for a while at least. And I'm not sure, I mean I've seen some, I've seen varying data on it, but that some of those teen jobs, it's not as common to do that anymore.
Mike [00:18:31]:
True. And I also think that COVID played a part there, you know, trying to reduce that personal interaction as much as possible and that just kind of sped up the automation route. So there's been a lot of effects there.
Amanda Ellis [00:18:44]:
Yeah, it's interesting to think about. Definitely. Anything else to add on the topics we've talked about before we move into our final wrap up question?
Mike [00:18:54]:
No, I just say that with a topic like this, it's going to rapidly evolve. The data that I was specifically referencing, I think I pulled that in June of this year and I'm sure if I pulled it now, it would look a lot different. And I'm sure that this will continue to evolve. So certainly something that it's important to have your up to date data there and it will definitely be something that we monitor on our side going forward.
(01:04):
Amanda Ellis [00:19:21]:
Definitely. Our final question that we always ask is… so you remind us where you are based?
Mike [00:19:27]:
So I'm based in Cleveland, Ohio, but we also, our company is headquartered in Richmond, Virginia. So those are our two locations.
Amanda Ellis [00:19:37]:
Gotcha. So where you are, what is a bucket list item you would say if someone were coming there for the first time or moving there, like what's something they should make sure to do that's maybe a little off the beaten path?
Mike [00:19:48]:
Ooh, off the beaten path. See so the first thing that I'd say is Rock and Roll hall of Fame for sure. But I don't know if that's off the beaten path. But it's, you know, probably one of the coolest hall of fames or museums I've ever been in. So I definitely recommend that. But I'd say the one thing off the beaten path maybe is that not a lot of people know that we have a national park right outside of Cleveland, the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. A lot of great bike trails through there, some really cool waterfalls. So not something you really get too often just, you know, 20 minutes outside the city center, but an awesome thing that we have here in the local area.
Amanda Ellis [00:20:25]:
That is really cool. I was just at a talent attraction conference recently and a group in Cleveland gave a presentation. Actually they were doing some really cool and innovative things in that space, so.
Mike [00:20:36]:
Awesome.
Amanda Ellis [00:20:37]:
Well, thank you so much for doing this. Really enjoyed hearing from you and I think our listeners are going to get more informed about some of these AI jobs. I know it seems like AI is kind of the thing right now that's in your face all the time. Sometimes you might not want to hear about it, but here we are with more info about it, so.
Mike [00:20:52]:
Very true. If you want to, we have a lot.
Amanda Ellis [00:20:56]:
So thank you, Mike.
Mike [00:20:57]:
Thank you Amanda.
Amanda [00:21:04]:
(01:25):
Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast, where we take you Inside America's Best Cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate, and review this show. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can also learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at aellis@livability.com. Until next time, from Livability, I'm Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America's most promising places.
Mike [00:00:07]:
(00:01):
When you think of AI jobs, of course you're thinking of the big tech companies, but I'm looking at the top 10 now. And in the top 10 you have companies like Deloitte, they're actually number two, and PWC, so two of the largest consultancies. Then you also have two of the largest banks. So we have JP Morgan Chase and Capital One also breaking the top 10. And that's just a signal of what's to come more, as more and more of these more traditional industries really see the value in having this AI capability within their company, that's only going to continue to be enhanced.
Amanda [00:00:43]:
That's the voice of Mike Chmura, Chief of Staff at Chmura Economics and Analytics. Mike sheds light on how Chmura uses their Jobs EQ platform to track AI jobs and identify the cities with both the highest demand and the most abundant talent pools. Keep listening for a better understanding of the AI job market, implications for talent attraction and retention, plus more. You can learn more about this podcast at livabilitymedia.com, but before we get into this episode, a quick word from our sponsor, EDO Marketplace. Your one stop shop for economic development ,EDOMarketplace.net connects economic and community development organizations to the products and services you need to fulfill your mission. It's the only online directory of its type with over 50 categories, reviews, and hundreds of business listings in one place for you to peruse. For companies and consultants supporting economic development organizations, EDO Marketplace is a powerful tool for gaining visibility. Find out more at EDOmarketplace.net and with that, let's jump in.
Amanda Ellis [00:01:51]:
Thank you so much, Mike, for joining us today on Inside America's Best Cities. Super excited to have you talk a little bit more about Chmura, some of the research you all have done, and lots of fun things.
Mike [00:02:01]:
Awesome. Yes, thank you so much, Amanda. It's a pleasure to be here.
Amanda Ellis [00:02:05]:
Well, a big part of our topic today is some recent research you all have done on AI jobs that we're going to be talking about. Could you start us off by sharing how do you all actually define that? What are those skill sets look like an AI job?
Mike [00:02:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great question and it really depends on what you choose to define an AI job as. And for our recent research, we really wanted to dig down into the jobs that are responsible for AI creation and management, so the people that actually make the tools. So we're trying to dig down into that skillset as much as possible. So for both our resume and job posting searches, which I'm sure we'll talk more about in a bit. But we included a lot of relevant keywords like generative AI and machine learning and things of that nature. But then we also filtered on occupation, so specifically the group of occupations that would have this skill set. So you think of your software developers, computer engineers, so on and so forth in that vein. So we're not really looking at the job postings for an AI company that, you know, for example, you could be have a sales or marketing role within an AI product. That's not really what we were looking for with this definition in the research that we just did. A full definition of how we did this in our research can be found on our blog at chmura.com. But the great thing is that our job postings and resume searches allow you to customize this search however you want. So if we did want to search for salespeople, for example, who have experience selling AI products or features, we would be able to find that.
Amanda Ellis [00:03:36]:
Interesting, and I'll make sure to link that up in the show notes. So what you were looking at, though, is the best MSAs, the best cities and communities areas essentially for the jobs. Well, for people looking for people to fill those jobs, and for the talent themselves. So what differentiated those two categories, would you say, in terms of like, the criteria you were looking at?
Mike [00:03:58]:
Yeah, yeah. So I think, you know, as economists, we really like to think of a lot of things in the world in terms of supply and demand. So a common way of doing this when we're looking at labor market questions would be to use Bureau of Labor Statistics data or other standard data sources. But this is a bit more complicated because we're searching for a specific skill set, not necessarily a defined occupation, and also a skill that's rapidly gaining in prevalence. And, you know, the term AI really kind of exploded within the last two years here. So the government data with their lags and not being specific in that skill set isn't necessarily sufficient for this analysis. But we can use job postings as a proxy for demand and then resumes as a proxy for supply. So this measure, it's not perfect because, for example, not everyone has an online resume and not every job posting will turn into one single job, but it's accurate directionally and by proxy. Now, for the research that we actually did, which we ranked MSAs, as you said, Amanda, on their supply and demand and kind of differentiated which cities are best conditions for employers and employees. So, for example, a high supply, low demand environment would be best for employers. So this would mean more resumes than job postings in that region. And then the opposite would be true in some cases for employees. It really all comes down to bargaining power here, I think. Just take the tech hubs for example on the west coast. Yes, you may see a lot of opportunity there, but the area is also full of AI talent. So that might make it a bit more challenging for some of the job seekers in that region. But then on the opposite side, employers may have harder times in cities like Washington, D.C. or Dallas, Texas, which the demand for AI jobs there is growing very fast. But that supply base has not really been built up. This means that companies in these areas may have to start offering higher wages, perhaps, or start aiming to poach talent from other locations. This would be a more favorable environment for a job seeker, in that environment.
Amanda Ellis [00:06:05]:
That makes sense. Always that push and pull of what are the employers going to have to provide and what can employees negotiate for, so.
Mike [00:06:14]:
Definitely.
Amanda Ellis [00:06:15]:
What were some of the MSAs that rose to the top? You mentioned a few just now, but what were some of those on each side and were you surprised by them or was it about what you thought it would be?
(00:22):
Mike [00:06:26]:
Yeah, yeah. So I'll start just saying in terms of the big cities, perhaps that have the best supply to demand ratios. So this means more resumes than job postings. The big cities that stand out here are unsurprisingly of course, some of those west coast tech hubs. So Seattle and San Francisco are examples. But then you also have Boston, Massachusetts and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in the east that also came in relatively high. What was maybe initially most surprising to me, but perhaps it shouldn't have been, was the supply of AI talent in college towns. So this actually makes sense when you think about it a bit, because some of these college towns don't- do not necessarily have a large industry presence right there, but the universities within them have some of the top notch computer science programs within the nation and are clearly adopting the AI wave. And there's a lot of talent there that is near to entering the workforce. Some of those college towns have some of the most lopsided supply to demand ratios in the positive supply sense. On the other side, it was kind of surprising. Some of those Texas cities like Houston and Dallas came in pretty low. Washington D.C. was also one of the biggest cities that came in pretty low. So you know, it kind of makes sense. They are big cities, but maybe not the most technology focused, at least in their history. I think it is in some of those, especially the Texas cities. It is becoming that way more and more. But that's what we found on that side of the coin
Amanda [00:07:56]:
That makes sense. That is interesting. And the college town one, you're right. When you think about it more, it makes sense. A lot of our listeners, of course are people in smaller and mid-sized cities who are thinking about workforce town attraction, you know, how to retain people in their community, how to get new people coming there, engaging with their communities and their jobs. So it seems like there could be some opportunity with some of the things we're talking about for some of those communities. Like I was even thinking about, you know, maybe some specific recruitment efforts to some of those places that have that glut kind of happening and sort of that messaging around, “Well, here's maybe a place you haven't thought of or maybe your quality of life could be better and cheaper and here are some places you could work.” Can you expand on that a bit on any thoughts with that and how communities can harness some of this?
Mike [00:08:40]:
Yeah, yeah. And I, and I think I'll just jump off of your point there, Amanda, on the point that well, yes, there is some opportunity to take advantage of, but it's also not just the big cities that are going to need this AI talent. We see it more and more and this is only going to continue to evolve as time goes on. But AI talent I really believe, and a lot of experts in the space believe that it's just going to become more important that every single person in the organization, even if they're not making AI, it's important that they know how to use it and leverage it to become more efficient. And then I guess the other thing I'd say from a talent attraction and retention side is, you know, for a long time the focus from workforce developers is to make sure you maintain your occupation equilibrium within an area. So for example, you know, making sure you have enough doctors, mechanics, cybersecurity professionals, things of that nature. And this is still super important. But what also is important is to track is your skill supply. There's plenty of opportunity here. As you said, if your region has a low supply of workers who have knowledge of a certain skill, this is perhaps a signal to enhance that talent pipeline efforts. And whether that's with your local educational system or trying to attract talent from out of the region.
Amanda Ellis [00:09:58]:
You made a good point too about these AI skill components being something that aren't going to be exclusive to tech jobs or tech companies. And I know you had mentioned that in your research, you had seen that the employer mix for this isn't just those tech companies, but also other types of companies. Could you expand on that?
Mike [00:10:17]:
Some yes, yeah. And that's, I think, something that's really become evident within the past couple years here. When you think of AI jobs, of course you're thinking of the big tech companies, but I'm looking at the top 10 now. And, and in the top 10 you have companies like Deloitte, they're actually number two, and PWC, so two of the largest consultancies. Then you also have two of the largest banks. So we have JP Morgan Chase and Capital One also breaking the top 10. And that's just a signal of what's to come more as more and more of these more traditional industries really see the value in having this AI capability within their company that's only going to continue to be enhanced.
Amanda Ellis [00:10:58]:
How do you think the AI job market will evolve… Continue to evolve in the next few years?
Mike [00:11:03]:
Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think that this is a bit of a tough question, but if I'd have to bet, I'd say that we'll probably move towards equilibrium in this area as the next few years pass. You know that the talent pipeline in colleges is picking up and software developers, mathematicians, they're learning these skills on the job. So you didn't necessarily have to learn it in college or with your degree. It's what employers are pushing for right now. So people are learning that on the job. So I do expect that demand may continue to outpace supply in the near term, but I would expect that gap to narrow with time.
Amanda Ellis [00:11:41]:
So a lot of the data we've talked about that you've gathered for this came from your Chmura's JobsEQ platform. Right. Which from what I understand, aggregates online resumes, job posting, pulls data from all of those things. Can you share a little bit more about that and like what types of data users can glean? I think that'll be helpful to inform our last couple of questions.
Mike [00:12:01]:
Of course, yeah. So I think as you said, job postings and resumes, which we talked about, they are large parts, but actually I'd say that the majority of our data is government provided workforce, education and demographics data. So data from the census, BLS, and a large number of these other sources. And our value add here is that we make it easy to find and analyze and pull all of this data in one spot. And for anyone dealing with these government data sets before, I'm sure, you know, it's quite a pain to find the data at the specificity you need, like in the time that you needed. So that's kind of where our platform comes in to solve that issue. The other thing I'll mention is that government data also often includes gaps and non-disclosures which we clean up within Jobs eq and our data goes down to the block level. So really no ask is too specific for our tool when it comes to these data. We also have a lot of useful tools like report builders and mapping tools and custom demand analyses like our new housing demand application. But yeah, I think that's a good overview. I could of course talk all day about all of the data that we have, but I think I'll leave it at that point for now.
Amanda Ellis [00:13:13]:
What are some of the common ways that you see your economic development group clients utilizing this? And feel free to include a case study or two if that's helpful.
Mike [00:13:22]:
(00:43):
Yeah, so I'd say that there's, at least from a companywide perspective, I think that there are two areas that our company supports. One is of course with being the primary data provider through the SaaS platform, JobsEQ. And I'm sure that some of your listeners may know of it or perhaps even use it. It's used by hundreds of economic development, workforce, chambers of commerce, and other organizations around the country like this. And it can be used for a variety of things. You know, preparing your annual reports or status updates. We help some communities across the nation track certain metrics that they're trying to improve on. Site selection is also a big thing. Making sure that you actually have the workforce or are prepared for what it takes to get the workforce if you're chasing after a new economic development project. And the second part that our company helps with is we also have a consulting side. We have a very talented team of experienced economic consultants which help with a variety of projects. We do dozens of economic and fiscal impact studies each year, for example. We also do workforce studies, strategic planning, feasibility studies, you name it on that side. And then I guess one tangible example I could talk about, Amanda's, that I was happy to be a part of, specifically as it relates to talent attraction and retention, was a workshop that we did with the Eastern Carolina Council in New Bern, North Carolina, which was actually a pro bono project that we collaborated with IEDC on which we worked with local workforce boards, EDOs and local government stakeholders to analyze the region's labor supply and recommend some strategies for talent attraction and retention growth there. So that was a really nice experience. And we do similar projects for EDOs across the nation.
Amanda Ellis [00:15:12]:
What would you say you view as the most in demand career fields in general across the country right now?
Mike [00:15:19]:
You know, what comes in as the top one, maybe not so surprisingly, are software and web developers actually have one of the largest supply gaps nationwide. And this gap of course is even wider when we're talking about those with specific AI experience. But other prominent gaps include healthcare, especially registered nurses and nurse practitioners. I'm looking now, and over the next 10 years we're expecting the nation to have average annual gap of over 15,000 RNs, nearly 8,000 nurse practitioners, nearly 9,000 medical and health services managers. So that's certainly a spot for concern. And there's a lot of demand for those occupations. And this of course will only continue to grow as our population ages. And then the last one I'd mention is maintenance and repair workers. If you're wondering why your personal or organization's maintenance costs have skyrocketed in the last couple of years, apart from inflation, it's also because of the shortage of workers in fields such as that.
Amanda Ellis [00:16:22]:
So backtracking a little bit to some of the AI data we were talking about, what typically would you see in job postings for that, for educational background that they would want? Since that's so new, maybe some schools are having some emerging programs around it?
Mike [00:16:40]:
Yeah, you are correct that some schools are starting to actually have like specific artificial intelligence majors or machine learning majors. Right. But really it's going to be on your computer and software developer side where they have the background, they have the knowledge to learn this skill, but it's that. But then it's also mathematicians and statisticians which also they have the background knowledge. Perhaps they didn't learn this exact method within school or an outdated version of that, but they still have the necessary skillset to be trained up and to start to employ some of these newer systems.
Amanda Ellis [00:17:15]:
Gotcha. And the flip side of the question we were just talking about in terms of most in demand fields, what about fields you're seeing where there are way more candidates than jobs that are oversaturated?
Mike [00:17:30]:
Well, and some of it is actually maybe because of AI that some of these jobs are becoming oversaturated. But you send just an automation in general. But some of the largest gaps we see are cashiers and fast food workers and things of that nature where I mean you go into any grocery store now and most of the checkout aisles are self checkout and same thing at a lot of these fast food establishments. So that's some of the highest that we see there. And that's also kind of being a consequence of not necessarily AI in specific, but this technological and automation revolution that's going on within the country. Right now.
Amanda Ellis [00:18:11]:
Yeah. And I'm sure some just social and societal impacts too. Because some of those jobs you just mentioned, like the cashier example, I mean those used to be things a lot of high school students did for a while at least. And I'm not sure, I mean I've seen some, I've seen varying data on it, but that some of those teen jobs, it's not as common to do that anymore.
Mike [00:18:31]:
True. And I also think that COVID played a part there, you know, trying to reduce that personal interaction as much as possible and that just kind of sped up the automation route. So there's been a lot of effects there.
Amanda Ellis [00:18:44]:
Yeah, it's interesting to think about. Definitely. Anything else to add on the topics we've talked about before we move into our final wrap up question?
Mike [00:18:54]:
No, I just say that with a topic like this, it's going to rapidly evolve. The data that I was specifically referencing, I think I pulled that in June of this year and I'm sure if I pulled it now, it would look a lot different. And I'm sure that this will continue to evolve. So certainly something that it's important to have your up to date data there and it will definitely be something that we monitor on our side going forward.
(01:04):
Amanda Ellis [00:19:21]:
Definitely. Our final question that we always ask is… so you remind us where you are based?
Mike [00:19:27]:
So I'm based in Cleveland, Ohio, but we also, our company is headquartered in Richmond, Virginia. So those are our two locations.
Amanda Ellis [00:19:37]:
Gotcha. So where you are, what is a bucket list item you would say if someone were coming there for the first time or moving there, like what's something they should make sure to do that's maybe a little off the beaten path?
Mike [00:19:48]:
Ooh, off the beaten path. See so the first thing that I'd say is Rock and Roll hall of Fame for sure. But I don't know if that's off the beaten path. But it's, you know, probably one of the coolest hall of fames or museums I've ever been in. So I definitely recommend that. But I'd say the one thing off the beaten path maybe is that not a lot of people know that we have a national park right outside of Cleveland, the Cuyahoga Valley National Park. A lot of great bike trails through there, some really cool waterfalls. So not something you really get too often just, you know, 20 minutes outside the city center, but an awesome thing that we have here in the local area.
Amanda Ellis [00:20:25]:
That is really cool. I was just at a talent attraction conference recently and a group in Cleveland gave a presentation. Actually they were doing some really cool and innovative things in that space, so.
Mike [00:20:36]:
Awesome.
Amanda Ellis [00:20:37]:
Well, thank you so much for doing this. Really enjoyed hearing from you and I think our listeners are going to get more informed about some of these AI jobs. I know it seems like AI is kind of the thing right now that's in your face all the time. Sometimes you might not want to hear about it, but here we are with more info about it, so.
Mike [00:20:52]:
Very true. If you want to, we have a lot.
Amanda Ellis [00:20:56]:
So thank you, Mike.
Mike [00:20:57]:
Thank you Amanda.
Amanda [00:21:04]:
(01:25):
Thanks for listening to the Livability podcast, where we take you Inside America's Best Cities. At Livability, we highlight the unsung awesomeness of small and mid-sized cities across the country. We also partner with communities to reach their target companies and potential residents through digital content and print magazine programs. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate, and review this show. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you can also learn more about us at livabilitymedia.com. Have an idea for an upcoming episode? Email me at aellis@livability.com. Until next time, from Livability, I'm Amanda Ellis, sharing the stories of America's most promising places.
Popular Podcasts
True Crime Tonight
If you eat, sleep, and breathe true crime, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT is serving up your nightly fix. Five nights a week, KT STUDIOS & iHEART RADIO invite listeners to pull up a seat for an unfiltered look at the biggest cases making headlines, celebrity scandals, and the trials everyone is watching. With a mix of expert analysis, hot takes, and listener call-ins, TRUE CRIME TONIGHT goes beyond the headlines to uncover the twists, turns, and unanswered questions that keep us all obsessed—because, at TRUE CRIME TONIGHT, there’s a seat for everyone. Whether breaking down crime scene forensics, scrutinizing serial killers, or debating the most binge-worthy true crime docs, True Crime Tonight is the fresh, fast-paced, and slightly addictive home for true crime lovers.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.