December 9, 2024 • 22 mins
Wayne Turmel interviews Enrico Menichetti, head of Latin America and the Caribbean at VFS Global. They explore the intricacies of leading international remote teams and the cultural nuances of remote work in Latin America. Enrico shares his insights on self-awareness, cultural adaptability, and building trust across borders.
Key Takeaways
- Embrace Cultural Immersion: To lead effectively across cultures, immerse yourself in the local culture and show genuine curiosity about your team's environment and experiences.
- Prioritize Self-Awareness: Understanding your own strengths, biases, and leadership style is the foundation for connecting with and managing diverse teams.
- Adapt Leadership Styles: Avoid a one-size-fits-all approach; tailor your leadership to the cultural norms and communication preferences of your team members.
- Build Trust Before Efficiency: Focus on creating genuine connections and trust within your team before jumping into quick, transactional communication.
- Set the Stage for Collaboration: Start meetings with cameras on and create space for all team members to share their perspectives, respecting cultural differences in communication styles.
- Focus on Execution: Foster a culture of getting things done by encouraging accountability and aligning team goals with individual contributions.
- Lean into Discomfort: Take calculated risks and embrace challenges to grow as a leader, especially in unfamiliar or cross-cultural settings.
- Address Conflict Thoughtfully: Recognize that conflict resolution varies across cultures; find a balance that respects individual approaches while maintaining harmony.
Timestamps
0:00 Introduction
1:13 Meet Enrico Menichetti and VFS Global
2:52 Remote Work Trends in Latin America
5:14 Importance of Cultural Immersion in Leadership
8:36 Navigating Conflict in Multicultural Teams
11:15 Building Genuine Connections in Remote Teams
13:32 Leadership Challenges in New Environments
16:37 Advice for Aspiring Leaders
Related Episodes
Additional Resources
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to.
Walking Distance later.
Well, I guess if you've never been herebefore, you can't be back.
But welcome to the long distance later.
This is the podcast designedto help people thrive, survive,
generally make sense of the worldof remote and hybrid work
and the changing 21st century workplace.
(00:30):
My name is Wayne Turmel.
I am the remote work and evolving
workplace subject matterexpert for the Kevin Eikenberry Group.
If you're new to the podcast,
you don't knowthat about half of the shows I co-host
with my friend and colleague Marisa,she is not here today.
What that means is we have a really cool
(00:53):
interview with a very smart person.
And today, that person is Enrico mana.
Katie. And we are going to talk about,
leading international remote teams,
but also remote work in Latin Americaand all kinds of interesting topics.
And it would be far more interestingif he was talking about it instead of me.
(01:17):
So, Enrico,welcome to the long distance work life.
Oh my brain,thank you so much for having me.
Well, thank you for being had you.
We have a true North American showbecause I am a Canadian
living in Las Vegas,and you are in Mexico City.
So we pretty much have North Americacovered us.
(01:41):
Yeah.
But most of your workisn't in North America.
Tell us a little bit about VFS global
and then what you do and we'll startdrilling down into the good stuff.
Sure, sure.
Yeah.
For having me as excitedfor me to talk about this topic.
So yeah, DFS globalwe serve as government.
(02:01):
We serve as governments,mainly, embassies or
missions that, across the globe.
And, we do that and we are placingmost of the, countries in the world
where we kind of like, service themto a sort of outsourced model,
all the non value work,let's say, of the missions.
(02:21):
We will take that on to ensure
that the mission itselfcan focus on the most important task.
And that's getting the approvals,for example, of the visas or,
or the passports to their own diaspora.
So that's, that's VFS focus areas.
Currently I am the head of Latin Americaand the Caribbean, where,
(02:43):
I'm in charge of the business itself.
Both, both the development,but also the delivery of the operations.
Excellent. So
let's start with big picture.
And, you know,we focus a lot on remote work and
unintentionally, but not surprisingly,
(03:03):
we have mostly focused on either
Canada, the U.S or Western Europe.
There is a big world out there.
So can you kind of give me a very quick
state of the state of the world?
In Latin America is remote work, accepted?
(03:23):
Is it growing?
Is it suspected? What's what?
What do you see?
So, the rethinking it back times.
When I started working, there wasn'treally, where where I had the privilege
to be.
You very quickly become an expertand working in Eastern Europe.
And then I moved my wayall the way to Asia, in the Philippines,
(03:45):
coming back to Dubaiand now ending up in Latin America.
I think what I've seen is the trend
of workingremotely for sure is increasing.
I think it's that flexibilitythat people are looking for, very much
and, specifically in Latin America,
I would say very similar,very similar to the other regions.
The challenges that I have seen,that also create opportunities
(04:09):
are very much into the cultural nuancesand the differences that you find.
Often people, don't realizehow big this continent really is,
where you have a Brazil, and inLatin America it is a continent on itself.
It's not a country, right?
It has states that are bigger thanmost of the countries that we know of.
So, so a lot of the challenges,I think often
(04:32):
we think about timezone differencesor we think about,
maybe the language barriers.
But I would say the biggest challengeis always the cultural, the cultural,
and how to bridge that gap.
I would say in Latin America as well,dealing with 35 different countries,
including the Caribbean, I thinkis very important in my view, that,
(04:55):
leaders that are wanting to create high
performing teams in a region like thisare not just
knowing the culture, butthey are really immersed into the culture.
Right?
It's important that people feel that the,
the leaders that are directingthem are really understanding them, right?
That there'sthis real curiosity as a leader.
(05:17):
So, so that that that I would say it's
an interesting aspect,how to maneuver through that.
One wayI can say that is also a very constant is
how does the leader createa lot of self-awareness?
In a, in a, in a, in a region
like this with so many different cultures,the language is different.
(05:37):
Spanish and Portuguese mainly,very little English.
And I as, as somebodywho is married to a woman who is half,
Puerto Rican and half Mexican,
even speaking Spanish is no guaranteethat you speak the same language.
Exactly, exactly that I wasn't DominicanRepublic just yesterday.
And, although my Spanish is not too bad,but I had to do an effort to follow
(05:59):
the speed of that Spanish, so it wasn'tit wasn't very easy.
But I think self-awareness is somethingthat I very early on in my career,
I started investing a lot of time,a lot of efforts,
because it's a constant work,it's a constant development.
And why is that?
Is becauseif we really want to lead people in
any culture, in any language,in any place in the world,
(06:21):
the best way you can dothat is to understand yourself first.
Very well.
And if you understand yourselfbuilding on those blocks and trying to
then to, create curiosity, understandand the other cultures,
I think that creates a very good basefor a leader to, to develop.
You said something that
(06:42):
really resonated with me,and it's not something
we hear a lot here in the placesthat think we run the world.
One of the things you said
is that it's important
that the leader adapt to the cultureof where they're working.
(07:02):
And I think a lot of us,particularly North Americans, spend
a lot of time trying to get everybodyto get with the program and adapt to us.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Yes, exactly.
And I feel
if we I mean,
managing people is always about people,no matter if you can virtually remotely
(07:23):
face to face. Right.
So the, the, the student aspectthat will always come back, for example,
the how to how to show empathy,how to show
genuine interest in peoplecreating genuine connections.
So for that, very early on, making
mistakes myself,I realized that there's no one fit for.
All right. You need to adapt.
(07:45):
And often in the Western world,even in Europe, where I grew up,
we we take that for granted.
We think that the whole world operatesin a certain way.
The way of thinking is the same.
And I have a very specific examplewhen I move to Romania.
Plus, in Europe,
in Eastern Europe, I arrivedthere as a very young guy.
I was 24 or 25, in charge of the scheme,and I had this person that I hired.
(08:11):
The manager came to my office one day,sat down in front of me and looked at me
and said, I don't think I can trustyou, says the person.
And I was taken back by that.
And I said, can you tell me more? Right.
What what was driving that?
Or because in the time you came here,
you've been understanding,you've been helping us.
When issues arise, you're working on ittogether, as a person.
(08:33):
And I don't think that can be real.
That's not the real you. Right.
So that that and the person basically leftmy office by me saying, look,
time will tell.
There's not much I can
say right now,but let's see in a couple of months.
And the person came back eventuallyand said to me, look, I was wrong, right?
It's possible to do itdifferently as well.
(08:54):
But that directed being so direct,I wasn't really familiar with that.
Right.
That culture of likejust saying what they think
versus then moving to the Philippineswhere it was the opposite,
where people are so great,graceful, very, very, very friendly,
and they will never tell you what,what's really wrong?
Because they,they work very much in an environment of,
(09:18):
collaboration and,and being nice to each other.
And that was another aspectthat I have to learn as well,
so that that differentiation,I think it's a learning curve.
But yeah, it's an importantaspect of a leader.
Again, to, to embrace and to understandthat it can be done differently.
Yeah. Yeah.
In that little bit of international workthat I've done,
(09:41):
it seems like how we address conflict
is such a powerful thing,because there are cultures
that have no problem going head onand you don't do it that way.
You are weak,
or you don't know what you're doingor you don't have confidence.
Versus harmony is important,and that is the most important thing.
(10:04):
And neither is 100% constructive.
And that's that's the key a very,very good point because how you bring
that all together, because oftenwhen you are managing international news,
you have all these different cultureson one call at the same time, right?
How do you manage that?
And and that really goes back to the pointof trying to create is genuine connects.
(10:27):
Right. Often,
I think the example
of the bad, bad habitsthat we sometimes create of like
calling somebody off or being in a calland saying, oh, just a quick one.
Just a quick one.And I will be very quick.
But actually what that does,it takes away the connection.
It takes away the trust.
It's just like,I need something from you very quick.
Give it to me now.
(10:48):
And I think working if you knowthe person face to face every day,
you can get away with that.
But if you have an international teamthat you don't see often or seldom,
it's they're very dangerous thingsto do where instead of connecting,
first create a connect, have a properintro, create curiosity with the person
you're talking with a team you're talking,and then you create as harmony again
(11:10):
of, of, of different, differencesthat are, as a culture and a call.
You're saying so many thingsthat are resonating with me.
And that sound kind of counterintuitive.
And one of the things you just said
is this notion of
shorthand, thisnotion of quick communication.
(11:30):
It can work very effectively
if the relationship is there,if the trust is there, if there's history.
But you need to start long and taking time
and work to shortand you can't start there.
Because if you create like connection,you create that
a genuinea genuine connection with your people.
(11:51):
That also, again, is the basealso build your own culture.
And as a leader,we all have different cultures of of how
we develop a high performing teamor a high performing group.
Right.
And I'm going tothat goes back to the aspect
of as a leader, then you can really
having your self-awareness startinvesting and understanding the person.
(12:14):
What what drives them.
What how can I getthe best out of this individual?
And so you basically go beyond that,that barrier of different culture
and language now.
And I'll certainly understand the personbecause I have created a bridge already
and, and and then and then you're buildinga culture in my, my, my culture,
as people know me, is very much drivenby getting things done right.
(12:37):
Execution.
So I'm going to embrace that as a culture.
There's this book of,
of of of, Larry.
Larry who?
I forgot the last name right now,but who is the art of execution?
And it's a book that I have been givingto a lot of my leaders
all the time because they're like,
we can do a lot of talks,we can have great ideas.
(12:59):
We can, but our culture should bethat we get stuff done.
Right.
And and I think that's also core to people
that are living from in different places,or a team that is spread across
the globe is how you build that culture,that getting things done,
because it doesn't matter which time zoneI am or what needs to happen,
my mindset isI want to get this task done.
(13:19):
So I will make sure that it gets done.
I'm not going to waituntil my 5 to 8 happens in my time zone.
I will work with the group to really,deliver the project,
to deliver and execute.
Can you give us a couple of very concrete
day one kind of things
(13:40):
that you do when bringing a team,especially a disparate,
international team together
to help jumpstart those connections?
I would say in a, in a virtual world,the first and foremost thing,
excuse me, is cameras on,
have your cameras on, see each other.
(14:01):
It would be very basic,but I think often that's being,
overlooked.
People are connecting quickly againover zoom
or over and overthe different tools that we have.
But the least we can do as we arenot in person
is let's look at each other and let's,let's just have a have a face to face.
I'll say that's the first thing.
The second thing is alsowe need to create again that culture of
(14:27):
let's, let's give everybody an opportunityto speak up as well.
And, you know, we arewe all have different cultures.
We all have different, approachesto the issues.
Some people,some cultures are more respectful
and they will waituntil somebody finished talking.
Other ones actually is almostlike more respectful to start talking
(14:47):
while somebody is almost finishing,because then I agree with his points.
And so and all of that needsto be understood and not changed with
how do we adapt to that space,how do we adapt so
and slowly setting the tone right, I willI go back
to the fact of the self-awarenessand also the order of execution.
(15:07):
That's another aspect as well.
So these are the, I would say,the four things I would list as, things
that that a team really or a leaderneeds to focus on to, to start building,
let's say a unified team globally.
I'm really interested
in your experiencebecause at I mean, I left the country
(15:30):
and came to another country,but that was baby steps, right?
Canada to the US is not exactly a world.
World.
No, it's not still a change.
It is a change.
And it's not Italy to Romania.
It's not, you know, the Dominican Republic
to the Philippines.
(15:53):
How do youwhat is what goes on in your mind
when you find yourselfin a new environment
and you're not breaking breadand you're not sitting right next
to the person, thathow do you get yourself in that mindset?
So what privilege I had
is that I was raisedby an immigrant family, Italian family,
(16:16):
and I was raised in Belgium in a group
where, our community was
any kind of nationalityexcept Belgians or most.
So growing up way, I must be very honest.
I created a little bit
identity crisis for myselfbecause I never fit anywhere else.
(16:37):
I'm not Italian because I wasn't bornin Italy, but at home we are Italian.
But I was not Belgian.
And when I travel, peoplealways ask me where I'm from.
I could never place myself.
It's only lateron that I realized that that
that experience that I did, being that,
having it like I
thought it was like normal for meto be in between different cultures.
(16:59):
Different mentalities,different languages.
I think that was really the basisof, of me
kind of like that ableto adapt quicker and faster.
So what I would say is that with that,
for most people, often we see our,
some of the aspectsof our upbringing or development
(17:19):
or our challenges as a issues as problems.
But I will always try to seethe golden nugget
in those thingsthat I have learned later on as well.
And I think that's that's really if I nowhave to go to the Dominican Republic
or the Philippinesor I'm sitting in, in Eastern Europe,
somewhere in Romania, for example,
(17:42):
I don't, I don't really think anymore
about how how I want, howI want to be treated.
It's abouthow do I adapt to the local customs there.
I think that's that's a very important.
I have seen a lot of expats or friends,colleagues very successful as well.
But I had a little bit of a challenge,like even even moving to Dubai
wasn't very comfortable for thembecause getting out of the routines.
(18:06):
So jumping into the unknown,sometimes is, is a good thing.
Not everything has to be laid out becauseonly when we jump in unknown unknowns,
sometimes we can findwhat's was beyond that.
Right? What? What else can I do?
How far can I go?
So getting a little out of the comfortzone, I would say it's important.
Accepting that fact.
(18:27):
And, you know,
being humble without feeling
inferior is an interesting balance.
But but love, humility does.
Something as a leader that needs to,
gain the respect of their team as well.
It's a very fair point, right?
They get humbleness adapting.
(18:49):
But also, yes, having a assertivenessin terms of how you want to lead.
Yeah. Enrico, this has been terrific.
And as we knew what happened,the time has flown.
Is there one thing that
as a leader in your experience, is unique?
I mean, not everybody has has livedyour life, to be sure.
(19:10):
Is there one thingthat you want to leave our audience with?
I think one, do a lot of things,as you can see, I can speak about.
But the one thing, if it's now
if you're aspiring to become a leaderwithin your country,
where you are or abroad,no matter what your aspirations are,
(19:31):
I always take the quote of Richard Bransonvery close to my heart.
And that's likewhen somebody asks you to do something,
say yes and then figure it out afterwards.
Right?
And it is not about beingalways a yes man,
but this is about accepting challenges,right?
My life,if it brought me to where I am today,
(19:51):
is because sometimes I take also,calculated risks,
knowing in the back of my mindthat that's where the challenge sits.
That's where I wantto, find development for myself
and learn new thingsand and eventually be successful.
Well, rather than that'show a lot of us got here. So.
Yeah,
(20:12):
I take that motto to heart myself.
Enrico,thank you so much for being with us.
I am going to remove youfrom the video for a moment.
This means nothing to the peoplelistening on audio.
If you want to know more about Enrico,we will have links to him
on LinkedIn, then to VFS and to his work.
(20:33):
On our homepage, which is long distance
work life.com.
If you are interested in our new book,which is really our old book,
The Long Distance Leader Revised Rules forRemarkable Remote and Hybrid Leadership.
The second edition.
It is out now.
We are very excited about that.
(20:55):
You can learn how to buy multiple copies,how to get all kinds of free offers
at Kevin eikenberry.com/ldl.
As podcast listeners,you know how this works.
We rely on word of mouthand you telling others.
So please, please, please,like and subscribe.
(21:15):
We have over 120,
episodes now
for you to take advantage of conversations
with really, really coolpeople like Enrico.
The other half are really coolconversations, too,
but they are,
with Marisa and I, darn it.
(21:36):
And Marisa and I are interested
in your questions,your thoughts, your comments.
If you have an idea for a guest,if you have a topic that you'd like us to
cover, please, please, please let us know.
We are both on LinkedIn.
Wayne Turmel,Marisa Eikenberry or Wayne at Kevin
eikenberry.comor Marisa at Kevin eikenberry.com.
(22:00):
And darn it, that's it for another week.
Thank you so much.
Thank you to Enrico for being with us.
We really enjoyedbringing the show to you.
My name is Wayne Turmel.
And don't let the weasels get you down.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome back to.
Walking Distance later.
Well, I guess if you've never been herebefore, you can't be back.
But welcome to the long distance later.
This is the podcast designedto help people thrive, survive,
generally make sense of the worldof remote and hybrid work
and the changing 21st century workplace.
(00:30):
My name is Wayne Turmel.
I am the remote work and evolving
workplace subject matterexpert for the Kevin Eikenberry Group.
If you're new to the podcast,
you don't knowthat about half of the shows I co-host
with my friend and colleague Marisa,she is not here today.
What that means is we have a really cool
(00:53):
interview with a very smart person.
And today, that person is Enrico mana.
Katie. And we are going to talk about,
leading international remote teams,
but also remote work in Latin Americaand all kinds of interesting topics.
And it would be far more interestingif he was talking about it instead of me.
(01:17):
So, Enrico,welcome to the long distance work life.
Oh my brain,thank you so much for having me.
Well, thank you for being had you.
We have a true North American showbecause I am a Canadian
living in Las Vegas,and you are in Mexico City.
So we pretty much have North Americacovered us.
(01:41):
Yeah.
But most of your workisn't in North America.
Tell us a little bit about VFS global
and then what you do and we'll startdrilling down into the good stuff.
Sure, sure.
Yeah.
For having me as excitedfor me to talk about this topic.
So yeah, DFS globalwe serve as government.
(02:01):
We serve as governments,mainly, embassies or
missions that, across the globe.
And, we do that and we are placingmost of the, countries in the world
where we kind of like, service themto a sort of outsourced model,
all the non value work,let's say, of the missions.
(02:21):
We will take that on to ensure
that the mission itselfcan focus on the most important task.
And that's getting the approvals,for example, of the visas or,
or the passports to their own diaspora.
So that's, that's VFS focus areas.
Currently I am the head of Latin Americaand the Caribbean, where,
(02:43):
I'm in charge of the business itself.
Both, both the development,but also the delivery of the operations.
Excellent. So
let's start with big picture.
And, you know,we focus a lot on remote work and
unintentionally, but not surprisingly,
(03:03):
we have mostly focused on either
Canada, the U.S or Western Europe.
There is a big world out there.
So can you kind of give me a very quick
state of the state of the world?
In Latin America is remote work, accepted?
(03:23):
Is it growing?
Is it suspected? What's what?
What do you see?
So, the rethinking it back times.
When I started working, there wasn'treally, where where I had the privilege
to be.
You very quickly become an expertand working in Eastern Europe.
And then I moved my wayall the way to Asia, in the Philippines,
(03:45):
coming back to Dubaiand now ending up in Latin America.
I think what I've seen is the trend
of workingremotely for sure is increasing.
I think it's that flexibilitythat people are looking for, very much
and, specifically in Latin America,
I would say very similar,very similar to the other regions.
The challenges that I have seen,that also create opportunities
(04:09):
are very much into the cultural nuancesand the differences that you find.
Often people, don't realizehow big this continent really is,
where you have a Brazil, and inLatin America it is a continent on itself.
It's not a country, right?
It has states that are bigger thanmost of the countries that we know of.
So, so a lot of the challenges,I think often
(04:32):
we think about timezone differencesor we think about,
maybe the language barriers.
But I would say the biggest challengeis always the cultural, the cultural,
and how to bridge that gap.
I would say in Latin America as well,dealing with 35 different countries,
including the Caribbean, I thinkis very important in my view, that,
(04:55):
leaders that are wanting to create high
performing teams in a region like thisare not just
knowing the culture, butthey are really immersed into the culture.
Right?
It's important that people feel that the,
the leaders that are directingthem are really understanding them, right?
That there'sthis real curiosity as a leader.
(05:17):
So, so that that that I would say it's
an interesting aspect,how to maneuver through that.
One wayI can say that is also a very constant is
how does the leader createa lot of self-awareness?
In a, in a, in a, in a region
like this with so many different cultures,the language is different.
(05:37):
Spanish and Portuguese mainly,very little English.
And I as, as somebodywho is married to a woman who is half,
Puerto Rican and half Mexican,
even speaking Spanish is no guaranteethat you speak the same language.
Exactly, exactly that I wasn't DominicanRepublic just yesterday.
And, although my Spanish is not too bad,but I had to do an effort to follow
(05:59):
the speed of that Spanish, so it wasn'tit wasn't very easy.
But I think self-awareness is somethingthat I very early on in my career,
I started investing a lot of time,a lot of efforts,
because it's a constant work,it's a constant development.
And why is that?
Is becauseif we really want to lead people in
any culture, in any language,in any place in the world,
(06:21):
the best way you can dothat is to understand yourself first.
Very well.
And if you understand yourselfbuilding on those blocks and trying to
then to, create curiosity, understandand the other cultures,
I think that creates a very good basefor a leader to, to develop.
You said something that
(06:42):
really resonated with me,and it's not something
we hear a lot here in the placesthat think we run the world.
One of the things you said
is that it's important
that the leader adapt to the cultureof where they're working.
(07:02):
And I think a lot of us,particularly North Americans, spend
a lot of time trying to get everybodyto get with the program and adapt to us.
Tell me a little bit about that.
Yes, exactly.
And I feel
if we I mean,
managing people is always about people,no matter if you can virtually remotely
(07:23):
face to face. Right.
So the, the, the student aspectthat will always come back, for example,
the how to how to show empathy,how to show
genuine interest in peoplecreating genuine connections.
So for that, very early on, making
mistakes myself,I realized that there's no one fit for.
All right. You need to adapt.
(07:45):
And often in the Western world,even in Europe, where I grew up,
we we take that for granted.
We think that the whole world operatesin a certain way.
The way of thinking is the same.
And I have a very specific examplewhen I move to Romania.
Plus, in Europe,
in Eastern Europe, I arrivedthere as a very young guy.
I was 24 or 25, in charge of the scheme,and I had this person that I hired.
(08:11):
The manager came to my office one day,sat down in front of me and looked at me
and said, I don't think I can trustyou, says the person.
And I was taken back by that.
And I said, can you tell me more? Right.
What what was driving that?
Or because in the time you came here,
you've been understanding,you've been helping us.
When issues arise, you're working on ittogether, as a person.
(08:33):
And I don't think that can be real.
That's not the real you. Right.
So that that and the person basically leftmy office by me saying, look,
time will tell.
There's not much I can
say right now,but let's see in a couple of months.
And the person came back eventuallyand said to me, look, I was wrong, right?
It's possible to do itdifferently as well.
(08:54):
But that directed being so direct,I wasn't really familiar with that.
Right.
That culture of likejust saying what they think
versus then moving to the Philippineswhere it was the opposite,
where people are so great,graceful, very, very, very friendly,
and they will never tell you what,what's really wrong?
Because they,they work very much in an environment of,
(09:18):
collaboration and,and being nice to each other.
And that was another aspectthat I have to learn as well,
so that that differentiation,I think it's a learning curve.
But yeah, it's an importantaspect of a leader.
Again, to, to embrace and to understandthat it can be done differently.
Yeah. Yeah.
In that little bit of international workthat I've done,
(09:41):
it seems like how we address conflict
is such a powerful thing,because there are cultures
that have no problem going head onand you don't do it that way.
You are weak,
or you don't know what you're doingor you don't have confidence.
Versus harmony is important,and that is the most important thing.
(10:04):
And neither is 100% constructive.
And that's that's the key a very,very good point because how you bring
that all together, because oftenwhen you are managing international news,
you have all these different cultureson one call at the same time, right?
How do you manage that?
And and that really goes back to the pointof trying to create is genuine connects.
(10:27):
Right. Often,
I think the example
of the bad, bad habitsthat we sometimes create of like
calling somebody off or being in a calland saying, oh, just a quick one.
Just a quick one.And I will be very quick.
But actually what that does,it takes away the connection.
It takes away the trust.
It's just like,I need something from you very quick.
Give it to me now.
(10:48):
And I think working if you knowthe person face to face every day,
you can get away with that.
But if you have an international teamthat you don't see often or seldom,
it's they're very dangerous thingsto do where instead of connecting,
first create a connect, have a properintro, create curiosity with the person
you're talking with a team you're talking,and then you create as harmony again
(11:10):
of, of, of different, differencesthat are, as a culture and a call.
You're saying so many thingsthat are resonating with me.
And that sound kind of counterintuitive.
And one of the things you just said
is this notion of
shorthand, thisnotion of quick communication.
(11:30):
It can work very effectively
if the relationship is there,if the trust is there, if there's history.
But you need to start long and taking time
and work to shortand you can't start there.
Because if you create like connection,you create that
a genuinea genuine connection with your people.
(11:51):
That also, again, is the basealso build your own culture.
And as a leader,we all have different cultures of of how
we develop a high performing teamor a high performing group.
Right.
And I'm going tothat goes back to the aspect
of as a leader, then you can really
having your self-awareness startinvesting and understanding the person.
(12:14):
What what drives them.
What how can I getthe best out of this individual?
And so you basically go beyond that,that barrier of different culture
and language now.
And I'll certainly understand the personbecause I have created a bridge already
and, and and then and then you're buildinga culture in my, my, my culture,
as people know me, is very much drivenby getting things done right.
(12:37):
Execution.
So I'm going to embrace that as a culture.
There's this book of,
of of of, Larry.
Larry who?
I forgot the last name right now,but who is the art of execution?
And it's a book that I have been givingto a lot of my leaders
all the time because they're like,
we can do a lot of talks,we can have great ideas.
(12:59):
We can, but our culture should bethat we get stuff done.
Right.
And and I think that's also core to people
that are living from in different places,or a team that is spread across
the globe is how you build that culture,that getting things done,
because it doesn't matter which time zoneI am or what needs to happen,
my mindset isI want to get this task done.
(13:19):
So I will make sure that it gets done.
I'm not going to waituntil my 5 to 8 happens in my time zone.
I will work with the group to really,deliver the project,
to deliver and execute.
Can you give us a couple of very concrete
day one kind of things
(13:40):
that you do when bringing a team,especially a disparate,
international team together
to help jumpstart those connections?
I would say in a, in a virtual world,the first and foremost thing,
excuse me, is cameras on,
have your cameras on, see each other.
(14:01):
It would be very basic,but I think often that's being,
overlooked.
People are connecting quickly againover zoom
or over and overthe different tools that we have.
But the least we can do as we arenot in person
is let's look at each other and let's,let's just have a have a face to face.
I'll say that's the first thing.
The second thing is alsowe need to create again that culture of
(14:27):
let's, let's give everybody an opportunityto speak up as well.
And, you know, we arewe all have different cultures.
We all have different, approachesto the issues.
Some people,some cultures are more respectful
and they will waituntil somebody finished talking.
Other ones actually is almostlike more respectful to start talking
(14:47):
while somebody is almost finishing,because then I agree with his points.
And so and all of that needsto be understood and not changed with
how do we adapt to that space,how do we adapt so
and slowly setting the tone right, I willI go back
to the fact of the self-awarenessand also the order of execution.
(15:07):
That's another aspect as well.
So these are the, I would say,the four things I would list as, things
that that a team really or a leaderneeds to focus on to, to start building,
let's say a unified team globally.
I'm really interested
in your experiencebecause at I mean, I left the country
(15:30):
and came to another country,but that was baby steps, right?
Canada to the US is not exactly a world.
World.
No, it's not still a change.
It is a change.
And it's not Italy to Romania.
It's not, you know, the Dominican Republic
to the Philippines.
(15:53):
How do youwhat is what goes on in your mind
when you find yourselfin a new environment
and you're not breaking breadand you're not sitting right next
to the person, thathow do you get yourself in that mindset?
So what privilege I had
is that I was raisedby an immigrant family, Italian family,
(16:16):
and I was raised in Belgium in a group
where, our community was
any kind of nationalityexcept Belgians or most.
So growing up way, I must be very honest.
I created a little bit
identity crisis for myselfbecause I never fit anywhere else.
(16:37):
I'm not Italian because I wasn't bornin Italy, but at home we are Italian.
But I was not Belgian.
And when I travel, peoplealways ask me where I'm from.
I could never place myself.
It's only lateron that I realized that that
that experience that I did, being that,
having it like I
thought it was like normal for meto be in between different cultures.
(16:59):
Different mentalities,different languages.
I think that was really the basisof, of me
kind of like that ableto adapt quicker and faster.
So what I would say is that with that,
for most people, often we see our,
some of the aspectsof our upbringing or development
(17:19):
or our challenges as a issues as problems.
But I will always try to seethe golden nugget
in those thingsthat I have learned later on as well.
And I think that's that's really if I nowhave to go to the Dominican Republic
or the Philippinesor I'm sitting in, in Eastern Europe,
somewhere in Romania, for example,
(17:42):
I don't, I don't really think anymore
about how how I want, howI want to be treated.
It's abouthow do I adapt to the local customs there.
I think that's that's a very important.
I have seen a lot of expats or friends,colleagues very successful as well.
But I had a little bit of a challenge,like even even moving to Dubai
wasn't very comfortable for thembecause getting out of the routines.
(18:06):
So jumping into the unknown,sometimes is, is a good thing.
Not everything has to be laid out becauseonly when we jump in unknown unknowns,
sometimes we can findwhat's was beyond that.
Right? What? What else can I do?
How far can I go?
So getting a little out of the comfortzone, I would say it's important.
Accepting that fact.
(18:27):
And, you know,
being humble without feeling
inferior is an interesting balance.
But but love, humility does.
Something as a leader that needs to,
gain the respect of their team as well.
It's a very fair point, right?
They get humbleness adapting.
(18:49):
But also, yes, having a assertivenessin terms of how you want to lead.
Yeah. Enrico, this has been terrific.
And as we knew what happened,the time has flown.
Is there one thing that
as a leader in your experience, is unique?
I mean, not everybody has has livedyour life, to be sure.
(19:10):
Is there one thingthat you want to leave our audience with?
I think one, do a lot of things,as you can see, I can speak about.
But the one thing, if it's now
if you're aspiring to become a leaderwithin your country,
where you are or abroad,no matter what your aspirations are,
(19:31):
I always take the quote of Richard Bransonvery close to my heart.
And that's likewhen somebody asks you to do something,
say yes and then figure it out afterwards.
Right?
And it is not about beingalways a yes man,
but this is about accepting challenges,right?
My life,if it brought me to where I am today,
(19:51):
is because sometimes I take also,calculated risks,
knowing in the back of my mindthat that's where the challenge sits.
That's where I wantto, find development for myself
and learn new thingsand and eventually be successful.
Well, rather than that'show a lot of us got here. So.
Yeah,
(20:12):
I take that motto to heart myself.
Enrico,thank you so much for being with us.
I am going to remove youfrom the video for a moment.
This means nothing to the peoplelistening on audio.
If you want to know more about Enrico,we will have links to him
on LinkedIn, then to VFS and to his work.
(20:33):
On our homepage, which is long distance
work life.com.
If you are interested in our new book,which is really our old book,
The Long Distance Leader Revised Rules forRemarkable Remote and Hybrid Leadership.
The second edition.
It is out now.
We are very excited about that.
(20:55):
You can learn how to buy multiple copies,how to get all kinds of free offers
at Kevin eikenberry.com/ldl.
As podcast listeners,you know how this works.
We rely on word of mouthand you telling others.
So please, please, please,like and subscribe.
(21:15):
We have over 120,
episodes now
for you to take advantage of conversations
with really, really coolpeople like Enrico.
The other half are really coolconversations, too,
but they are,
with Marisa and I, darn it.
(21:36):
And Marisa and I are interested
in your questions,your thoughts, your comments.
If you have an idea for a guest,if you have a topic that you'd like us to
cover, please, please, please let us know.
We are both on LinkedIn.
Wayne Turmel,Marisa Eikenberry or Wayne at Kevin
eikenberry.comor Marisa at Kevin eikenberry.com.
(22:00):
And darn it, that's it for another week.
Thank you so much.
Thank you to Enrico for being with us.
We really enjoyedbringing the show to you.
My name is Wayne Turmel.
And don't let the weasels get you down.
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