Is Giving Up Your Desk the Future of Hybrid Work?

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Because the idea of giving up your deskfor more
remote flexibilitymake you cringe or cheer.
Many organizations are grapplingwith this exact dilemma.
If you're considering a hotel modelto save money and embrace hybrid work,
you're not alone.
But how do you make it workfor everyone involved? You.

(00:23):
Welcome back to long distance Workplace.
We help you live, work and thrivein remote and hybrid teams.
I'm Russell.I can be a fellow remote worker.
And as always, joining me as my co-hostand remote work expert, Wayne Trammell.
Hi, Wayne.
As always, because there's no escape.
He's freaking everywhere.
But we are always here.
We live in the computer.

(00:45):
Indeed. We live in this little box.
Hello.
Well, today we are actually inspiredby a listener question.
And today we're diving into the challengesof transitioning to a hotel and model
while supporting employeeswho want flexibility through remote work.
So, Benjamin,the person who sent us this question,
thank you so much for your thoughtfulemail that led us to this, the situation

(01:08):
that many organizations
are navigating as they rethinkoffice spaces and work styles.
So we're really, really excitedto get into this.
But, Wayne, for some of our listenersthat may not be familiar.
Can we just do a quick definitionof what hotel room is?
It's a weird word.
I don't know how it became the word.
I think it's it's kind of the mental modelof staying in a hotel versus

(01:30):
having a space of your permanent spaceof your own, right?
That when you check into a hotel,you don't know which room you're getting.
You don't really know.
I mean, Hamptons all look alike, right?
But but it's not your.
And it's not your room.
There are things that you can doin a hotel room.

(01:50):
There are things that you shouldn't do ina hotel room because it's not your space.
Right?
And I think it's as good a word as any,but it does.
It's funny.
It creates far more dramathan we think it should.
And I'll give you the example.

(02:11):
And not everybody will relate to this,but I do, which is I grew up in a small
town, went to a small town church,and while in churches
there are no assigned seats per se,everybody knows where Mrs.
Williams sits, right?
And God forbid, literally.
That's you take that spot at your peril.

(02:34):
So even though officially you sit
anywhere you want,everybody has their pew.
They sit in the same place every week.
They sit there, they're comfortable there.
They are close enough or far enoughfrom the pastor's burning eyes.
They are easy access to the exits out.

(02:55):
Whatever you're. Praying.
For. Choosing a seat in church.
And while there are no official seats,
when somebody is in your seat,
it gets really uncomfortable
and that's the best analogythat I can come up with.

(03:16):
So the way that hotelI usually works is rather than, you
know, there's a cube farm and youeverybody has a seat assigned to them
because, you know, it's Tuesday andonly have two people come in on Tuesday.
We have just slightly over more
than half of the normal number of desks,

(03:37):
and people kind of grab whatever's open
and they set up and they do their work,and then they go home.
And on paperthat sounds extremely reasonable.
And what's the big deal?
The problem is you are dealing with humanbeings who are notoriously irrational.

(03:58):
And so there are a
couple of reasonsthat people get freaked out about this.
And as with everything with peoplewhen I say them,
a lot of people are going to go,that's not a big deal.
Except it's a big deal. Human being.
Humans are going to human. Yeah.
So some of it is a simple matter

(04:21):
of lack of control.
When I come in, I like what I like.
I like the view out the window.
I like to see the coffee break room.
I want my back to the coffee break room.
Whatever it is we we have
basically a set of estheticsthat we like when we work

(04:45):
and when we don't have control over that,that becomes a thing.
There are a few other things,some of which
make no difference to me, but they might.
Just somebody. They are going
to make differences to somebody,one of which is hygiene concerns.
Okay.
I don't know who was at this desk last.

(05:05):
I don't know what cooties they had.
I don't knowwhat their personal hygiene is like.
God only knows what they've done to thatkeyboard.
Lysol was everywhere.
Yeah, exactly.
So part ofif you're going to bring in a hotel
situation is you need to make surethat you have things like sterile

(05:29):
wipes at every desk and bottles of Lysoland those types of things.
Because while I'm pretty much,
I mean, I, I clean up after myself.
I'm not a complete slob,but that's not top of mind for me.
It's going to be top of mindfor some people, right?
Yeah, I'm with you. It'snot a big deal for me.

(05:50):
But like, now that you said it, it's like,oh yeah, okay, I can see it now.
Yeah.
I mean,especially because the whole reason
most of us wound upworking from home was cooties.
And so it's goingto be part of the thinking,
another thing is that
and again,it sounds minor and it's really not,

(06:13):
which is you need to set up and break downevery day.
Yeah.
And oh, God, I forgot the my specific pens
that I really like to bringor I forgot my mouse.
I've done that before and that sucks.
Oh, we've all done it.
And you know this idea of okay,so now I'm schlepping to the office,

(06:34):
so I've got my backpack,which now has my laptop and my mouse
and whatever else in there.
It's just a bigger deal every day.
Getting ready to go to workis more hassle.
It takes time to set up.
It takes time to break down
at the end of the day, you've got to putthat backpack on, which now somehow
weighs 20 pounds more than it didwhen you came in in the morning.

(06:58):
So there's what is this do to your day?
What does this do to the setup?
Right.
And so some of thatmay be a loss of productivity.
I'm not using my mouse.
Yeah.
My horse or whatever.
Yeah.
And there are simple waysto avoid this, right.

(07:21):
Duplicate mice.
Right. One at home, one at the office.
So, so this is a thing that organizationscan do, and it's not quite kindergarten.
Everybody has their own cubby.
But I think that lockers where people
can keep their equipment,
that meant that they use in the officeso that you don't

(07:42):
have to schlep it back and forthso that you can have duplicates
so that it's already there,and you can very easily set it up.
We'll actuallytake some of this strain off.
It's going to
require developing new routinesand developing new socks.
We all know that.

(08:04):
But, you know, things like that
can make it less awkward and weird.
Right?
One of the one of the reasons that people
don't like it as well is,
you know, when I have my desk, I've got

(08:25):
a picture of my wife and kids or,you know, Mr.
Whiskers in a holiday outfitand there's stuff on my desk that is mine,
and that's not going to be there,you know?
Right. Situation, you know.
And what are the rules aroundpersonalization

(08:46):
and what can you do?
Yeah.
You're not necessarilysitting at the same desk
every timewhere you can have that kind of stuff.
Well, and you know there are drawers.
What do we keep in the drawers.
Right.
Yeah.
It's like, you know, there's storageor whatever
is mine.

(09:07):
Is there.
So we need to address those.
And, and this meanswe need to address them
far in advance of it being an issue.
So how these conversations
need to be had beforethe magic wand is waved.
Well, that's exactlywhere I was getting to is like,
what are some ways that leaderscan involve employees in the process?

(09:30):
You've talked about some waysthat, you know, they can already,
think about doing stuff like Lysoland having cubbies for stuff and all that.
But like,what kinds of things should they be doing
to involve their employeesin the process of doing this?
There is a huge conversationwhich will be uncomfortable
and is going to makea lot of people feel weird.

(09:52):
But here's the thing
everybody wants
their desk, but they only want to be addeda couple of days a week.
Well, what this means in the long runis that
the organization is paying for spacethat is not being used right.
One of the things drivingthe return to office is
the CEO comes out of her officeand looks around at all this stuff

(10:17):
that is costing X dollars per square footand nobody is there.
And so the organization is paying
for space, equipment, things
that they are not getting a return on.
This is a legitimate concern.
Right? Absolutely.
They're not doing their money'sworth. Right.

(10:38):
Why are we paying for three floorsin a building
if we could arrange our schedule,accommodate everybody two days a week,
and nothave to pay for all that square footage,
that is a legit business conversation,right?
And employees need to care.

(10:59):
Because if it comes down
to we're paying for all this space
and the employees are whining,
right?
Whining loose, right?
It needs to be a discussionabout mutual benefits
and concerns.
So how can they manage some of that?

(11:20):
Well, again, it's here are the reasonswe want to go to hotel.
You have said you only want to come inoccasionally.
You only want to come ina couple of days a week.
And we can arrange this so that we clearlydon't need this many desks.
Right.
And you have concerns about privacyin this in that.

(11:44):
So how do we address that?
And there needs to be a real harsh
conversation around what's negotiableand what's not negotiable.
If you've decided as a group of employees,
two days a week in the office is plenty,
you can't complain about the fact that

(12:06):
some of the things that we are paying forare going to go away, right?
It's like it's the consequencesof the things that you want, right?
It's like you can have your cakeand eat it too.
So which do you want more?
And that just needs to bea real, honest conversation.
And some organizations are much betterabout that than others right now.

(12:29):
Maybe this can be done on a team basis
if your office is set upso that, you know, this
bullpen is salespeopleand this group of people are admins.
And however that set up,
as a team, talk about what do we need?

(12:50):
You also need to prioritizewhat is important to you.
Do you need a window?
Okay. Some people do.
Some people they need daylight.
They need vitamin D.
They need to be able towhen they're thinking look out the window.
Other people get distracted by looking.
At the right.

(13:11):
Do you want to be near the bathroom?
Do you not want to be near the bathroom?
Those types of things,because on a small team, often
we self-select anyway.
Right.
If I'm in Monday and Wednesdayand you're in Tuesday and Thursday
and we decide we're going to share a deskand nobody else cares, great.

(13:31):
There's your answer, right?
That makes it easy.
So, you know, if you can do that
on a team basis,it's certainly going to be easier.
Right?
Well, and I could see to the idea of,you know, this group is
needs quiet work to do or quieteror work to do something.
Yeah, you're web developersor something like that.

(13:54):
Whereas you know, your sales teamor your marketing team,
they might be louder, but, you know,so it's like, is there a sound issue
also to considerabout where they sent me office,
or that these two teams should not come inon the same day or whatever?
Exactly.
There are ways to address this.
Maybe conference rooms is the answer,right?

(14:16):
Right.
There are rooms for conversation.
Take advantage of those.
Yeah.
So these are the kinds of thingsthat you need to consider.
And I would suggest just as individualswhat's important to you.
Right. Think about what is your routine.

(14:37):
What is your daily routine look likewhen you go to the office?
What is important to you?
And then talk to your teammatesand say, hey,
I really, reallylike the idea of the window.
Do you mind if I have that.
You know, and then fight to the deathif you need to.

(14:58):
You know, it's it's a greatit's a great team building
exercise to have gladiator battlesin the middle of the year.
Right.
Certainly.
A lot of this. The story. Oh.
Well, just a lot of this is boils down
to a cultural resistance to change.

(15:18):
Which is going to happenno matter what you do.
Which is going to happen.
It's going to be awkward and weird.
The more we discuss it, the morewe recognize what the stressors are.
Right.
What is it that you're concerned about.
Right. And then how do we address it.
I always come back to an examplein the early days of Covid

(15:40):
that I was talking to to a team,
and this almost became equitable issue.
Wow. Okay.
Is they madesomebody said they made me come home
and I've got my laptop,I have this big tower and a desk
and a keyboard and multiple screens,and it's great at work.

(16:02):
And I came homeand I've got this stupid little laptop
and this little rubber dealy thatI'm supposed to use instead of a mouse.
And I said, well,why don't you just buy a mouse?
They're like, right, that would be.
Their $9 at Walgreens.
You know, just buy one. And
his issue was,

(16:22):
I shouldn't have to be out of pocketto do work for them
when this change is being driven by them.
And I get, okay, I can see that.
Have you talked to your managerabout this?
Yes. Well, the policy isthe manager is sticking by the policy
that we don't pay for equipmentthat's not being used in the office.

(16:47):
And so there's a showdown over a $9 mouse.
Now, is the $9 mouse really the issue? No.
No, it's you are asking meto work in a certain way,
and you are not giving mewhat I require to do my job.
So you are adding to my inconvenience.

(17:09):
And oh, by the way, it's costing me moneythat I don't want to pay
for somethingthat I don't want to do, right.
Yeah.
The underlyingissue that nobody really wants to say.
So this is going to get to, you know what?
You're saving $2,500a month on square footage,
spring for lockers,spring for duplicate duplicate equipment.

(17:33):
So people have mice at their desk.
Maybe there is a camera at every desk
that people can use when they're there,and they don't have to
break down their own cameraand bring it to work every day.
It's so often we have
said, it's the little things, right?

(17:53):
It's the thousand little pinpricksthat lead to war,
that have a pebble in your shoe
that if you can handle those,
make the larger issuesmuch easier to discuss and deal with.
And so before we wrap up,I do have one last question for you,

(18:14):
but it's so for organizationswho are thinking about trying hotel
and and maybe they've, you know,not done that previously,
what kinds of things that they can doto like pilot these programs,
test and fine tuneand roll them out to their teams.
Like, I guess first steps.
Yeah.
Well,you use the word pilot before a policy.

(18:34):
It's like literally, let's trythis for two months and see how it works.
Ratherthan this is what we are going to do.
And if you don't like it
or you make the wrong choice oryou think you want to be near the bathroom
and you find that toodistracting, sucks to be you, right?

(18:56):
You make your choice.Now you have to live with it, right?
Know people don't always know whatthey're choosing, and they may decide.
And we may decide that,you know what, the same
peopletake the same hotel desks all the time.
And it really, after the initial chaos,
isn't that big a deal.

(19:16):
Right.
I'm working with the same peopleevery Tuesday and Tuesday we show up
and we go to the desk.
We always go toa, nobody has an issue with it.
Right. You get used to it.
So identify the barriers,
address or mitigateas many of them as you can.
Make it easy

(19:38):
for people to hotel.
And then try it and see what worksand what you need to fix.
You need to fix and
you will eventually settle into a rhythmthat works for you.
Human beings like routine.
We, you know when our routinesget disrupted we freak out.

(20:01):
When do we stop freaking out?
When we have established a new routine.
Right?
Which I mean, really is also wheresome of this boils down to to begin with.
And and there's a paradox here.
On the one hand, this is not as momentous
or even insane a change as it feels like.

(20:24):
And at some pointyou will get over it and deal with it.
Right.
On the other hand, to diminish or
to discount the very real feelings
that people have,only make it harder to reach that new,
that new rhythm and that new norm.
Absolutely.
Wayne,thank you so much for this conversation.

(20:47):
I really hope that it was helpfulfor our listeners.
And I know I learned a lot moreabout hotel later.
Hot desking
or you know whatever, whatever other nameremote work wants to start calling it.
Right.
Well, it's so funny becausethe terminology changes all the time.
I mean, hot desking.
Who does that sound like? Fun.I was going to say.
I think that's what we called itlast year.

(21:08):
I, we did a whole episode about.
I'll have to link it in the show notes.
So at first it was like,wait, what's hotel?
And I know Hot Desk,
who knows?
So listeners,you may be listening to this a year
or so from nowand have no idea what we're talking about.
Or it's called something else.
So it just goes to showhow fast things are changing.

(21:29):
But before we go.
But tell us whatwhat are your thoughts on this?
I mean, we're sitting herebeing all very wise on the mountain.
Here are the things you can do.
What's your experience? Yeah.
And what's worked for you and what hasn't.
Tell us. Yes. Yes, absolutely.
We would love to share your thoughtsand your questions.

(21:50):
On another episode.
But before we go,I do want to say that we're very excited
to share the second editionof The Long Distance Leader.
It's now available, and this updated guideis packed with actionable strategies
to help you lead effectivelyin today's remote and hybrid environments.
Don't wait.
Order your copy at longdistance work life.com/ldl

(22:12):
and take your leadershipskills to the next level.
And thank you for listening to the longdistance work life for Shownotes
transcripts and other resources, make sureto visit Long Distance worklife.com
if you enjoyed this episode,
don't forget to subscribeso you never miss a future one.
And while you're at it, leave us a ratingor review on Apple or Spotify
or wherever you're listening to this.

(22:32):
It's quick and it helps us reacheven more listeners just like you.
And we would also love to hear from you,as Wayne already said.
So reach out to us via email or LinkedInusing the links in our show notes,
and let us knowthat you listen to this episode,
or even suggest a topic for Wayneand I to tackle in a future episode.
We would love to hear from you.
And again to Benjamin, who sent this in.

(22:53):
Thank you so much for reaching out to usso that we could have this conversation.
And before we go,
as Wayne likes to say,don't let the whistles get you down.
Thank you.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Is Giving Up Your Desk the Future of Hybrid Work?