November 24, 2025 • 41 mins
Some birds sing at dawn to wake us up, but today we’re celebrating the birthday of a certain nocturnal songbird whose award-winning cocktails, wonderful hospitality, and sultry nightly soundtrack have been keeping London warbling for 15 years.
Today we’re turning our attention to Nightjar, the Shoreditch bar that rewrote London’s late-night playbook.
Joining me are the brilliant duo behind it: Roisin Stimpson and Edmund Weil. Long before Nightjar became a fixture on the World’s 50 Best Bars list, the Top 500 Bars, and every other list, Rosie and Edmund had a dream and the drive to create a place that brought together all their passions.
All their bars, Nightjar, Oriole, and Swift, hold a special place in my heart, and you will see why. I don’t want to reveal too much of their story in this intro, so let’s get right into the episode and have them guide us through the story of Nightjar.
But before that, if you love Lush Life, we would so appreciate your support by signing up for our newsletter. You can get our advice on anything to do with home bartending, where to drink in every major city, special recipes, and even your very own Lush Life mug! Just head to alushlifemanual.substack.com and sign up!
Now grab that Martini and let’s join Rosie and Edmund!
Our cocktail of the week is the Toronto:
INGREDIENTS
- 50 ml Woodford Reserve
- 12.5 ml Fernet Branca
- 7.5 ml Maple syrup, infused with roasted coffee beans & pecan nut
METHOD
- Add all the ingredients to a mixing glass
- Add ice and then stir until chilled and
- Strain it into a rocks glass.
- Garnish with cotton candy
You’ll find this recipe and all the cocktails of the week at alushlifemanual.com, plus links to most of the ingredients.
Full Episode Details: https://alushlifemanual.com/nightjar-with-roisin-stimpson-edmund-weil/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Susan Schwartz (00:07):
Some birds sing at dawn to wake us up. But today
we're celebrating the birthday of a certain
nocturnal songbird whose award winning cocktails,
wonderful hospitality and sultry nightly
soundtrack have been keeping London warbling for
15 years. I'm, um, Susan Schwartz, your drinking
(00:29):
companion and this is Lush Life podcast. Every
week we're inspired to live life one cocktail at a
time. Today we're turning our attention to
Nightjar, the shortage bar that rewrote London's
late night playbook. Joining me are the brilliant
(00:51):
duo behind it, Roisin Stimson and Edmund Viall.
Long before Nightjar became a fixture on the
World's 50 Best Bars list, the top 500 bars and
every other list in town, Rosie and Edmund had a
dream and the drive to create a place that brought
(01:11):
together all their passions, all their bars.
Nightjar, Oriole and Swift hold a special place in
my heart and you'll see why. I don't want to
reveal too much of their story in this intro. So
let's get right into the episode and have them
guide us through the story of Nightjar. But before
that, if you love Lush Life, we would so
appreciate your support. By signing up to our
(01:33):
newsletter, you.
Can get our advice on anything to.
Do with home bartending, where to drink in every
major city, special recipes and even your very own
Lush Life mug. Just head to
alushlifemanual.substack.com and sign up. Now grab
that old fashioned and let's join Rosie and
(01:53):
Edmund.
It's so great to have you guys on the show
finally. I can't believe it. It's been too long.
>> Roisin Stimson (02:02):
I know, it's great to be here. Thank uh, you,
thank you so much. So my name's Rosie, I own
Nightjar, Oriole and Swift with Edmund, my husband
and business partner. We both grew up in London. I
grew up in Finchley and uh, always wanted to be
part of the central London scene. So uh, I think
that's partly why I've ended up doing bars and
(02:24):
entertainment places in central London. But I came
from a very kind of arts loving musical background
and uh, born to an Irish mother and an Irish music
playing father, although he's British, my dad
really loved the kind of the big life of eating
and drinking and we had lots of, we hosted lots of
parties at home with lots of live music and things
(02:46):
and so I really always grew up feeling that that
was the best of things and I'm an amateur singer
myself and when Edmund and I were in Dublin
univers, well we're at Trinity In Dublin together.
We would go and see shows, you know, sort of jazz
gigs and things. And there was one seminal one
where it was a very kind of old school jazz gig in
(03:06):
a very dingy pub. And, um, literally the idea was,
wouldn't it be great if we could see this in the
environment that it was set in, back in the 20s,
30s, et cetera. That was the seed of the idea. And
obviously after that, that was Nightjar. What
became Nightjar.
>> Susan Schwartz (03:20):
And wait, wait, wait, you're going way too fast.
Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. You have lush
life. We take it very slowly, I love. Well,
that's.
>> Roisin Stimson (03:30):
Anyway, that's how it started.
>> Susan Schwartz (03:31):
We're gonna wait, we're gonna unpack a lot of
that.
>> Roisin Stimson (03:33):
All right, all right, all right.
>> Susan Schwartz (03:34):
Edmund, why don't you just introduce yourself?
>> Edmund Viall (03:37):
Yeah. So London born and bred in, um, Islington
and Highbury, to a. A mother and father who loved
hosting, Particularly my dad. He's the kind of guy
who'll offer you a drink and if you refuse, he'll
have such a pained expression on his face that you
end up accepting it anyway.
>> Susan Schwartz (03:55):
Was there a specific drink that he had that he
would offer?
>> Edmund Viall (03:58):
Moved through a lot over the years.
>> Roisin Stimson (04:00):
Very boozy Pimms.
>> Edmund Viall (04:01):
Yeah, that was.
>> Roisin Stimson (04:02):
Yeah, not very much Pims. Lots of other things.
>> Edmund Viall (04:05):
That's right. And yeah, Glass say he's now. He's
actually now really into Negronis.
>> Susan Schwartz (04:09):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (04:09):
And, um, sometimes he'll offer you a Negroni with
a little bit of soda water topped up. So it's
barely even a drink. Yeah. So, yeah, it's someone
who. My father was someone who. To show people a
good time. And I think that seeing that over the
years and enjoying it and being the beneficiary of
it has been very formative for me and what
(04:30):
motivated me to get into hospitality.
>> Susan Schwartz (04:33):
Now, Rosie said you both went to Dublin to
university.
>> Roisin Stimson (04:36):
Yeah.
>> Susan Schwartz (04:37):
What were you going to study?
>> Roisin Stimson (04:39):
We both completed our, uh, four years there and I
did History of Art and Spanish. All right, Edmund.
>> Edmund Viall (04:44):
And I was English lit and Spanish.
>> Susan Schwartz (04:46):
And you just happened to meet there or you knew
each other beforehand?
>> Roisin Stimson (04:51):
We didn't know. We didn't know each other
beforehand. But, uh, Edmund came a year after I
was there and then I was on a year off as part of
my Spanish course. So I didn't meet him initially.
And then in my third year, I met him through
mutual friends.
>> Edmund Viall (05:04):
Um, yeah, we kind of got set up a little bit.
>> Susan Schwartz (05:07):
A little bit set up. And when you went in, what
were you thinking might be your careers?
>> Roisin Stimson (05:13):
Oh, I thought that, uh, I would like to be an art
dealer. Ah. I think that was the general idea,
but, you know, that was sort of one of them. I had
lots of ideas, but that was certainly why I did
that course.
>> Edmund Viall (05:24):
Like many humanities degree holders, I did not
have much of an idea. I think I went through a
film director, you know, a nonprofit director, uh,
banker, lawyer maybe. All sorts of ideas. But as
happens when, you know, when you leave university,
you do end up having to get a proper job quite
(05:45):
quickly. And that's what I did.
>> Roisin Stimson (05:46):
Yeah. Right.
>> Susan Schwartz (05:47):
So you had.
You went to the Seminole Music hall or what was
it? It was a concert.
>> Roisin Stimson (05:54):
It was a very dingy pub on Georgia street in
Dublin. And it was, uh, an artist called Camilo
Sullivan.
>> Edmund Viall (06:02):
So she's actually like. She's probably one of the
biggest names in sort of cabaret now.
>> Roisin Stimson (06:05):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (06:05):
Um, she's very much about storytelling through
song and all this kind of stuff. And it was. It
was a really, really special performance. But as
Rosie said, it was a special performance in a sort
of slightly dingy, you know, tiny, smoky pub
basement.
>> Roisin Stimson (06:19):
Wet on the floor.
>> Edmund Viall (06:20):
Yeah, exactly. Sticky floors. And the music and
the performance was so transportive, you know, it
really took you somewhere. And I think we both, as
Rosie said, we both kind of dreamt of a place
where that sort of music would find its home and
would kind of fall in with everything else, with
the atmosphere, with the drinks, with the menu and
(06:42):
all that kind of thing. And as Rose said, that's
kind of where the kind of germ of night, uh, was.
Was laid like that. This idea of a really
authentic experience that kind of harped back to
the times before, like, PA systems, before
gramophones, where, you know, if you were in a,
uh, bar and drinking and there was to be music, it
was someone on the stage with a piano, you know, a
(07:05):
clarinet, uh, or what have you. And I know,
certainly for me, I think for Rosie as well, that
there's something about that kind of those
scratchy old records. You know, the Billie
Holidays, the Betsy Smiths, the. The, uh, Count
Basies. That. It. To me, it takes me away just to
listen to it. And so, you know, Nightjar's kind of
like, where. Where does it take us to?
>> Susan Schwartz (07:27):
So you had this idea, but then you said after
university, people get regular jobs.
>> Roisin Stimson (07:33):
I do what all people who, you know, do history of
art did that dream of when I went to work at an
auction house and I went. I sort of moved up in
management there. But I was maybe there for about
three and a half years before I decided to go and
work with, uh, artists. No, actually, at that
point we decided to, uh, do Nightjar, didn't we?
(07:55):
Well, what would become Nightjar?
>> Susan Schwartz (07:57):
So what now? It opened in 2010 because it's its
15th anniversary, but kind of how many years
before that it was?
>> Edmund Viall (08:03):
08 when we decided, if we're not going to do it
now, we're never going to do it.
>> Roisin Stimson (08:09):
What year did you start working after university?
2004. 2005. I had been working since 2004.
>> Edmund Viall (08:16):
04. No. Yeah.
>> Roisin Stimson (08:18):
Oh, yeah. So 2003, I left a year before him. So,
uh, I had become kind of disenchanted with
working. Christie's is a bit like, well, once
you've worked here, where do you go? And then we
just said to each other, why? And Edmund was
working at Freud Communications.
>> Edmund Viall (08:34):
And then, yeah, so they're kind of a corporate.
Well, they're a communication specialist. And I
was in the corporate department. Um, very
interesting job. Not, uh, one that I particularly
found, I didn't find particularly fulfilling. And
so I think in 2006 I moved to do Teach first,
which is like Teach for America in the UK. So I
went to be a teacher and learn that, uh, on the
(08:55):
job for a couple of years. And the idea is it's
like, tends to put graduates or recent graduates
into really challenging school situations to try
and be inspired or be inspired and give education
at the very sharp end to go. And so I did that for
two years. And at the end of that, I think having
worked very, very hard, I kind of felt like, wow,
(09:15):
this is, you know, if it's going to get this
intense, then we should probably be putting this
amount of effort into our own dreams. Um, and so,
yeah, we kind of bit the bullet at that stage and
thought, right, whatever happens for the next
couple of years, we're going to try and get this
thing off the ground.
>> Roisin Stimson (09:30):
And then we were like, well, we better get some
jobs part many jobs while we're waiting for this
thing to happen. And then it kind of took a while,
didn't it? And I went to work with art, helping
artists make work for a publicly funded
organization and also did a, uh, an MA and
creative production for live performance. Because,
you know, the whole live performance thing was new
to me, like programming at all. And Edmund went to
(09:52):
work at Shoreditch House to learn bartender.
>> Edmund Viall (09:55):
So I wanted to know. Know a little bit about what
actual proper hospitality. And so I've worked in
pubs and, and that sort of thing. Yeah,
previously. Uh, so I had, I had an idea I knew
that I enjoyed serving people, but we wanted to
bring this to a high level. So I went to work in
say Haus group to kind of see the best and the
worst of what hospitality can be. Also did a
(10:17):
little bit supply teaching on the side.
>> Susan Schwartz (10:20):
Obviously it didn't put you off, which is good.
>> Edmund Viall (10:24):
No, I think. Yeah, yeah. When, when it comes to
opening a bar, especially when you uh, wear.
Looking back, we were absolutely total angenue.
Like we had very, very little idea of what we were
doing. And you know, finding the right site can
take a very, very long time. And you know, once
you found the site, actually negotiating with the
landlord and you know, getting all of your ducks
(10:44):
in a row. So yeah, the process probably took the
best part of two years.
>> Susan Schwartz (10:49):
Were there certain bars that you absolutely loved
in London that you, you were inspired by or did
you have that vision already?
>> Edmund Viall (10:58):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Roisin Stimson (10:59):
What do you think? I mean, I think we, for my, my
purposes, I mean we liked going out and eating and
drinking cocktails and things, but we weren't. I
wasn't connected into the scene, you know, we just
had for my book. It was just this was a place that
didn't exist that we wanted to create. Um, and so
I think uh, I was pretty green at that point.
>> Edmund Viall (11:19):
Yeah, me too. I mean there are a few bars, uh,
that are still around now. So for example, like
Freud, which I think is still got a little
basement cocktail then. Yeah, that was a place
that felt very, very cool. And then as we got
close to actually making it happen and started
trying to leverage what contacts we did have in
the drinks industry, we were taken to places like
Montgomery Place and Montgomery Place, which at
(11:41):
the time was really iconic bar El Gamion. Of
course another place was around back then.
>> Roisin Stimson (11:47):
Milk and Honey.
>> Edmund Viall (11:47):
Milk and honey, of course. So you know, we did get
a little bit of a baptism, uh, into uh, a lounge
bohemia. That's another one I think is still open
as well.
>> Susan Schwartz (11:57):
But you know, it's so funny you should say that.
That is one of when I first started getting. And
even though I loved going to bars all the time,
someone booked that for their birthday and I was
just blown away. And yes, I do walk by it
sometimes and I'm m talking like early 2000. I
don't even know when it opens like obviously to
between 2008 and 2010 because you guys were there
too. It's a long time ago.
(12:18):
And they were. I remember one drink was candy
floss.
You know, the guy was really, really creative.
>> Edmund Viall (12:25):
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, he's still around doing
like, cocktail tasting menus and experiences and
stuff like that, which is, you know, quite a
testament his creativity.
>> Susan Schwartz (12:34):
Did you think because you're number one, I have to
give a shout out. We've just had the top 500 bars
and you are in the top 100, number 71, and your
other bar is number 92. And considering you
started long ago to be in that top 100, I mean,
congratulations. It's a testament to what you've
(12:55):
done. But your cocktails, obviously, for being on
this list and lists, uh, there's. I could, like
the whole show could be about me listing how many
awards you guys have won, but that maybe I'm
moving too far ahead. But the, you know, the
cocktails themselves and the quality of cocktails.
(13:16):
Was that something that you kind of thought of,
uh, found yourself thinking about while at, uh,
Shoreditch House? They have to be at a certain
level.
>> Edmund Viall (13:24):
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there was a.
There was a good level of cocktails at Shortage
House. They tend to be aimed at quite a wide
audience. But back in those times, 2008, 2009, I
think the sort of. The vintage cocktail revival
was in full swing. You know, people were finding
books out there that dated back 100 years, 120
years. And, you know, that kind of full spectrum
of cocktail history was really, uh, opening up to
(13:45):
people. And I think we found that we got some of
those things like Ted Hayes vintage Spirit of
Cotton cocktails and in Buy by Dave Wondridge and
yeah, these kind of like seminal books that kind
of opened up cocktail history were very inspiring
to us.
>> Roisin Stimson (13:59):
Yeah, exactly. We were looking for someone who
could sort of deliver all of that. And then, um, I
don't want to jump too far into it, but we on one
of our trips around London trying out cocktail
bars and things, we were, um, introduced to Marion
Beck, who was our first bar manager. And then he
really raised the game. I mean, he took the brief,
he.
>> Edmund Viall (14:19):
Blew the doors off, you could say.
>> Roisin Stimson (14:20):
Yeah, one of our chief skills, actually, and maybe
any entrepreneur is finding great talent and
bringing them on board. Yeah, uh, keeping them on
board. And yeah, we've had lots of incredibly
talented. I mean, you know, we're in the. That's
what we're in the business of, is managing
incredibly talented people. And he was the first.
>> Edmund Viall (14:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, the initial brief,
the menu is the same concept that it is now, which
is like a trip through cocktail history, you know,
taking you all the way back to pre Prohibition
Derry Thomas era, uh, and before to the present
age. And so that was the idea. You always have
these little sections, like an anthology. But I
think at the time, I think our idea would be.
(15:01):
Would have been to cleave a little bit closer to
the original recipes. And it was Mariana's like,
yeah, that's fine. But what if we reimagine these
drinks? You know, what if we put in homemade
ingredients that give them a unique touch and
have. Marion is the king of the garnish.
>> Susan Schwartz (15:16):
Yeah, the garnishes were very famous. They still
are very famous.
>> Edmund Viall (15:19):
Exactly. Uh, and so, you know, just. Just putting
that extra layer of experience on top of them,
which I think really helped to set us apart in
those early years.
>> Roisin Stimson (15:28):
Yeah.
>> Susan Schwartz (15:29):
And. And with the music. Talk me through even
finding all the.
People, you know, is there a massive.
Amount or you have to do a lot of research into,
you know, trying to find people, or was it just
like, oh, my God, there's a place now so all of
these acts can find. Finally have a home?
>> Roisin Stimson (15:45):
Well, yeah, no, you do actually have to put quite
a lot of legwork into it. But then, uh, like
anything, you know, once you've sort of got done
that, then it starts to bear fruit. And so there
were lots of places that were open around then
that aren't now. Um, I'm thinking of Last days of
Decadence down in Shoreditch and Proud Cabaret
and, uh, Volupte. Yeah. Uh, where they were kind
(16:08):
of these alternative styles of. I mean, we were
thinking about cabaret back then as well, because
that was part of the old scene in the 20s and 30s.
So we were looking at all different types of acts.
Uh, and then. And also Ronnie's upstairs, the kind
of fringe places. And so we just went to those
gigs and introduced ourselves and met people. And
then once you've got a flow of people, then word
(16:31):
gets around and you get introduced. And sometimes
you'll see a band, a guy that you know from one
band turn up in another. That happens a lot
because actually what we do, this sort of vintage
popular music, is pretty small scene actually, of
very dedicated, passionate and creative people.
Um, so everyone passes on, you know, the word. And
(16:52):
we love music. We grew up in musical families. We
prize it very highly. But different stars.
Edmund's father and mum are into. He had classical
musicians, professional musicians in his, uh,
lineage. We're very much popular Irish music and
country music in my family, playing all the time.
>> Edmund Viall (17:10):
Meet in the middle of a jazz.
>> Roisin Stimson (17:11):
Yeah. And so we, you know, it's. We come from
different worlds musically, but we have great
respect for Musicians, the hours of work it takes
to get that good, to be able to perform. We treat
people well, including our musicians, and then
that, that bears fruit, really. People keep coming
back and um, passing the word on.
>> Edmund Viall (17:29):
Yeah. And I think Rosie's not giving herself
enough credit in terms of building up the roster
of musicians. Big job at the beginning.
>> Roisin Stimson (17:36):
And I've had great people join, you know, people
who've been in general management who then come to
help in events. And a, uh, girl I'm thinking of
now at the moment, Natalia, has been brilliant and
there's a new girl helping us, Mimi. So, you know,
they're team effort really at this stage.
>> Edmund Viall (17:51):
Yeah, it's a small world, the vintage jazz
revision scene in London. So like a lot of people
play in each other's bands and I think if word
gets out that there's a place that is good to play
is going to treat you fairly and pay you properly.
>> Susan Schwartz (18:03):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (18:04):
Then you know that quite quickly you start to get
inquiries and to be.
>> Roisin Stimson (18:09):
Treated nicely and respectfully and all those sort
of things. So, you know.
>> Susan Schwartz (18:12):
Now let's go. Before there was a reputation like
that, when you're opening these doors in 2010, did
you have like six months worth of people on hold
to play just in case it worked? I mean, what. When
you jumped in, you know, what was it like? Tell me
about that experience.
>> Roisin Stimson (18:32):
Ah, back through the summer, 15 years. I, um,
think that we, I think that probably we did what
everyone does is over program it and then like, oh
God, we don't have enough people, you know,
because we run a cover charge base where you.
Which is an American, uh, formula. Actually. We'd
been to New York to understand how people managed,
(18:54):
you know, these kind of, uh, live music gigs and
things. And there were lots of different stuff.
One was a, um, you pay $20, you have a drink that
pays for the band and then, you know. And it's a
two drink minimum or something.
>> Edmund Viall (19:04):
Yeah, it's like Vinny Vanguard.
>> Roisin Stimson (19:05):
Yeah, exactly. So that. Because nowhere else
really did it like that. Uh, it was either a
lounge bar where the music or like a hotel bar
where the music is paid for, so.
>> Edmund Viall (19:15):
Or Roddy's where you've got to be completely
quiet.
>> Roisin Stimson (19:16):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (19:17):
You know, pay 45, 50, 60, 70 quid for a ticket.
And it's all about music and everything else is
like an afterthought.
>> Roisin Stimson (19:22):
So that was a new, new way of doing things. And.
And so there's a bit of spoon feeding people
initially because they're like, what is this? We
don't really know what this is. But we over
programmed it then we didn't have enough people
coming in obviously because it was a new bar. And
then you're like, cancel fume, move things around,
whatever. So I think from memory we had people on
(19:43):
Thursday, Friday, Saturday initially, and that was
reasonably busy. And then later as the, the demand
grew and we knew that we could pay people, we put
people on through the week. So yeah, I think we,
it was steady, steady growth really.
>> Susan Schwartz (19:57):
Did you find that there was, there were people
from the beginning? Did people know about you?
>> Roisin Stimson (20:03):
I think I remember there being a big, great press
night, lots of height, you know, a great first two
nights or something and then third night is like
not as busy and you're like. And certainly I
remember uh, our GM at that time, um, Becky, who
also got on to work in um, music programming in
(20:23):
London and things. She, she would do a Tuesday
night by herself on the floor. And so it can't
have been, it must have been about 30 people to.
>> Edmund Viall (20:33):
Do the nights off by ourselves as well.
>> Roisin Stimson (20:34):
Oh yeah, we used to do them as well. Sorry. I mean
in the first year we worked outrageous amount of
hours. But then I think after, I think probably
after year one. A year, you know, every bar needs
about a year for critical mass. Maybe a bit longer
at the moment after year one, I think and, and we
got, I think we were named in class, weren't we?
>> Edmund Viall (20:52):
Yeah, we won the best new bar in class awards and
a couple of other things. I think there was just a
bit of, a bit of hype around us started to build.
>> Roisin Stimson (20:59):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (20:59):
Um, and I think it's actually much better for hype
to build six to eight months in rather than just
as you're opening because yeah, you know, even the
most m. Seasoned operator is going to make a lot
of mistakes in their first few weeks or months of
opening a bar. Like, you know, there's every new
site brings new problems and new things you
haven't thought about. So I think in some ways
that was timed quite well because it, it meant
(21:22):
that when people started coming down in their
droves, we were relatively ready to accommodate
them.
>> Roisin Stimson (21:27):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (21:28):
And get the drinks out fast and make sure the
experience really good. So yeah, it became quite a
few years of just being completely packed every
night. Right.
>> Roisin Stimson (21:37):
Yeah.
>> Susan Schwartz (21:38):
Uh, and the cocktail menu, were there any
surprises like oh, this cocktail is so much more
popular than we thought it would be or oh, no
one's drinking this one, you know. Did you,
throughout these years have you seen certain
things come and go drinks wise?
>> Edmund Viall (21:55):
I mean, I Think we've always kind of done a wide
range of really fun, interesting drinks and so um,
I'm trying to think about drinks that have been
misses that we would might have not expected. I
think whenever you. In the days of MARION we had
48 drink menus so there was certainly some drinks
(22:17):
um, uh, that didn't quite capture people's
imagination or didn't get, you know, didn't get
ordered quite as much.
>> Susan Schwartz (22:23):
That's a big menu.
>> Roisin Stimson (22:25):
Yes.
>> Edmund Viall (22:25):
Oh my God.
>> Roisin Stimson (22:26):
I mean everything was homemade and this.
>> Susan Schwartz (22:29):
Huge menu of signature cocktails and if you think
if someone is and all the other people who are
just ordering like could I have a martini or
something?
>> Roisin Stimson (22:35):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (22:35):
Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean we have very little
proper prep space. Yeah. Everything was done at LA
MNU in those days. Very little pre batching, very
little storage. Um, looking back I think the only
way that it was made to work was by everyone
working themselves to exhaustion.
>> Roisin Stimson (22:51):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, those were the. Yeah, it was
uh, lots of practices like well being and you
know, carefully managed rotors and all that sort
of stuff has come into play. I'm always surprised
by how one of our top uh, performing drinks and we
keep, we keep it on for this reason is the London
Mule which is you know, essentially a gin mule. A
long refreshing drink. And I think it says
(23:12):
something about people's tastes, right that
sometimes they're coming just for you know, what
they know and they love. And there are classics
for a reason and m, that's sort of quite a
comforting thing. And then people also like this
sort of show stopping ones like drinking from a
shell with the sort of things that feel quite
sensual and, and make great pictures.
>> Edmund Viall (23:33):
I mean there's four drinks that have more or less
in one iteration rather been on the menu for the
whole 15 years. There's the London Mule that Rosie
mentioned. There's the barrel aged Zombie which is
not only very boozy and very fun but has got this
kind of reformented pineapple juice which gives
this lovely kind of like caramelized deep flavor.
(23:54):
We have the Toronto which is a kind of old
fashioned twist, a little bit of Fernet which
obviously bartenders love to have a bit of fun
presentation. And then the last one is maybe the
Samurai which is a Japanese whiskey based drink. A
little bit of a riff on a whiskey sour type type
thing that we've had in one iteration the whole
(24:16):
time. And I think that's for me that's the thing
that really has hit home over the years is that
actually we innovate and we change A lot to get
through 15 years. What's really important is
iteration rather than innovation. If you focus
everything in being the most creative, the most
(24:36):
innovative bar, which, you know, Nitron might have
been said to be back in 2011 or 2012, at some
point, someone's going to come along and be more
even innovative and more creative than you in the
eyes of the world. And then all of a sudden, the
line lights off you. So in terms of longevity and
lasting, I think what we found over the years is
it's best to focus on the things that people come
(24:58):
back for.
>> Susan Schwartz (24:59):
Uh, 100%. There's a couple sayings, if it ain't
broke, why fix it? There's that. But also, if you
don't change, you die. So you've obviously gotten
the right balance of that to still not only be
here through Covid, but 15 years and still getting
awarded, you know, so that you obviously have such
(25:22):
an instinct for these things. But I would be
remiss. I know we're talking about Nightjar. It's
all about Nightjar's 15th anniversary. Because I
loved Oriole. Both in the old space and in the new
space, you have this wonderful bar. It's going
well. Why were you crazy enough to start another
one?
>> Roisin Stimson (25:43):
But businesses sort of take on a life of their
own. And we essentially, we had loads of very
qualified professional people in management who
were keen to stay with the company. And so that
gave us the, uh, you know, the bare bones of being
able to start something else. And so it felt like
a natural fit. We didn't, at that time, feel that
(26:03):
another Nightjar was, uh, what was needed. And so
we started looking for another venue. And then
once you find the venue, it kind of has a feel of
its own. And so we sort of started scouting around
for a different bird and a different concept and
things. And that was really how it happened. I
mean, I think we started looking pretty early,
maybe two years in, and it was another five years
(26:26):
after opening. It was 2015 when we opened.
>> Edmund Viall (26:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think taking one's time over these
things is. Is good because, yeah, we looked at a
lot of different opportunities. And I think, you
know, there's two things there. As Rosie said,
there's the fact that if you've got great people
and they're kind of hitting the top of the ceiling
in one organization, you kind of want to give them
the opportunity. But also, I think probably we are
(26:49):
kind of entrepreneurs. And, like, once something
is going well and there's cash being generated,
the question is, what next and, you know, at that
point we were in hospitality. You know, go on
next. And so the logical progression is to find
another. Get to find a new project to work on. Uh,
and so, yeah, Oriole came about like that. And we
(27:10):
wanted. Yeah, obviously Nightjar is a sort of very
sort of vertical, linear historical theme. And
with Oriole, we wanted to kind of make it more of
a geographical thing, you know, about exploration
and with drinks that rather than being inspired by
time, to be inspired by place. So the idea with
the Oriole menu is that, you know, the core of
each drink is a certain part of the world, whether
(27:32):
that's the ingredient or the glassware, or the
cultural practices that inspire the drink. And
that's how they recreate the menus at Oriole.
>> Susan Schwartz (27:41):
When you heard that there was a space in
Smithfield Market, were you like, oh, my God,
that's so cool? You know, we've got. We've got to
see it because it was, uh. Yeah, it was sad that,
that they closed Smithfield Market to redo it. But
it must have been so cool when you first saw it.
>> Roisin Stimson (27:59):
And we'd been to New York and been around the meat
pack. We'd looked at a venue in the meatpacking
district. And I think that probably subconsciously
we were like, oh, the meatpacking district of
London, Great. But also it was premium free. It
had been a historical bar. It felt very much like
London.
>> Susan Schwartz (28:16):
Oh, it had been a bar beforehand.
>> Roisin Stimson (28:18):
Had been a pub. Well, it was called the Cock
Tavern. A very, um, kind of legendary place where
the kind of painters of the 1950s, Lucian Freud
and his peers, and would kind of cross paths with
the meat market workers who were coming off shift
and also the city boys who were. Who were having a
breakfast before going into the city. So it was a
(28:41):
real cross section.
>> Edmund Viall (28:42):
Yeah, it's USP because it opened at 6am yeah. So
you would get that real kind of small, uh, guns,
board of different people at six o'. Clock. You
know, people kind of, uh, piling out fabric and
looking for a last drink. And like Rosie said, the
city boys, the traders, the cabbies.
>> Roisin Stimson (28:59):
But by the time we'd taken. I mean, we inherited
that license, but by the time we took it on, it
had been, you know, those. The glory days had
been, were well and truly over. So it felt
exciting to give it new life.
>> Edmund Viall (29:11):
I don't think we quite knew what we were biting
off when we took on the site. Then when we went
in, we just bought this huge site with loads of
back of the House, all the stuff. We didn't have a
nightjar and we thought, wow, how amazing. Look at
this great canvas that we can build up. But I
think, yeah, what you don't realize is that, you
know, a big, empty, stripped out site, it's very,
(29:33):
very expensive.
>> Susan Schwartz (29:35):
Very daunting, I'm sure.
>> Edmund Viall (29:36):
Uh, exactly. It takes a long time and a lot of
money to get it up and running.
>> Roisin Stimson (29:40):
I think we were undaunted. It was only once it was
ready and we opened it. We were like, wow, this is
really very big. And now we've got to fill it with
people. It lived there for seven years until we
were unfortunately, uh, asked to move along and
make, um, way for the Museum of London, which is
Londoners. You feel like. I'm happy with that.
That's okay. But, um, uh, it took time to get
(30:03):
going. But by the time, you know, we were asked to
leave, it was, it.
>> Edmund Viall (30:07):
Was in full swing.
>> Roisin Stimson (30:08):
Full swing and one of, um, our best performing
bars. So it was very bittersweet.
>> Susan Schwartz (30:13):
Oh, I'm sure it was bittersweet for me too, uh,
being one of my favorite places. Now, Edmund, you
said something about. Oh, yes, I guess we are in
hospitality. I just want to return to that. You
just. That was kind of a little comment that you
just said. But, you know, do you, you obviously
you are. It's 15 years since you are in
hospitality. Do you like, pinch yourself every day
(30:33):
going, yes, it worked. We're so happy. Is it
everything that you thought it would be? I mean,
that's a big question. I know that's a big
question. To put you on the spot like that.
>> Edmund Viall (30:43):
Sorry, on one side, absolutely. Like, it's been a
journey, been full of joy and fulfillment and, you
know, making people happy, showing them a good
time, accolades, travel.
>> Roisin Stimson (30:55):
I don't think we could have imagined just how
amazing, uh, an experience it would. It could have
been. I think, you know, we weren't really plugged
into this whole world of drinks and brands and
trips and all of that stuff and the kind of
community of people. So in terms of that and also
the people who've worked for us that we. And who
are our clients, all of that has been tremendous.
>> Edmund Viall (31:18):
Uh, so, yeah, I think that that's one thing we
didn't see going in.
>> Roisin Stimson (31:20):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (31:21):
Uh, but also, you know, over 15 years, and I think
this 15 years in particular of history has been
kind of full of black swans, Brexit, Covid,
Ukraine, big geopolitical humdingers that have
changed people's habits, have changed, their
finances have changed. Our uh, workforce and those
(31:42):
been very challenging things to navigate. And, and
at the same time as well, the way the marketing
happens, you know, the way that, you know, in 0, 8
and 9, 10, you know, social media was still in its
infancy, you know, traditional present
communications was still. Yeah, the way that you
would market a bar of hospitality. And so I feel
(32:02):
like although we've had constants that we've kept
the same throughout, I think have kept those bars
going and kept them top of tree or close to it,
we've also had to adapt a lot in that time.
>> Roisin Stimson (32:13):
Too, particularly in the last five years.
>> Susan Schwartz (32:15):
Are there any specifics you can share about how
you've had to adapt?
>> Roisin Stimson (32:23):
Um, I mean, I think Covid was just a series of
adapting to different rules almost daily about
numbers of people, whether you were open or
closed, how many people could come in, lots of
pivoting as they like to say. But then I think,
you know, the knock on effect of COVID and Brexit
and everything that's happened since is that
there's been behavioral change, people uh, working
(32:44):
from home, uh, which obviously impacts how people
socialize, the order of spontaneity around being,
uh, socializing and also the cost of living
crisis, people not having uh, the money to spend
on going out. And I think cocktails are one of the
first things that don't make the list, uh,
because, you know, people have to prioritize.
>> Edmund Viall (33:06):
I think one thing that we've changed a little bit
is sort of the management philosophy. And there's
two reasons. The first is I think, you know, when
we opened the model of people who came to work for
us, they were coming to work with very motivated,
very, very skilled people. But also just, just as
in, in many, many kitchens with the great chef,
(33:27):
people are sort of. Yeah, there's an atmosphere
where people are uh, working very, very hard, but
also kind of maybe being driven a little bit. So
there was, I think there was that that we felt had
to change, especially as time goes on. And you
know, I think hospitality in many ways is a much
better place to work than it was in 2010 because I
(33:49):
think people have, are not afraid to ask, uh, for
better conditions and you know, more fairness and
better work life balance. And also as time has
gone on and we've had, you know, over the course
of Nitro's life, we've had three kids and we have
had other projects and business interests that
have taken up some of our time. So you know, it's
(34:12):
been a case of having a team that's more, takes
more Responsibility. People stepping up with Swift
and Bobby Amir, for example, took on employee
shareholders who really has a sense of ownership.
And that's a model that we're replicating across
the other bars as well. Now I think that's a real
thing because I think, you know, when you've got
(34:33):
five different bars, you can't give that level of
attention that we did in those first years of
nyjar, where every detail was under our, uh,
supervision. So I think that's something that we
adapted quite a lot. And now I think marketing as
well, like we spoke about when we first started,
it was all about Facebook.
>> Susan Schwartz (34:54):
Yes, of course.
>> Edmund Viall (34:55):
Uh, and then Instagram came along and obviously
Instagram is still a big thing. You know, I think
nowadays you've got to look across all platforms,
got to think about your SEO, you've got to think
about deploying Google Ads in the right way at the
right time, all this kind of stuff. Like it's a
whole suite of things you've got to manage that we
couldn't have even imagined, um, yeah, back in the
(35:16):
early days. So that's another thing that we, we've
had to adapt.
>> Roisin Stimson (35:19):
We're like two, three generations on now. So, you
know, we're like marketing to people who are
generally much younger than us.
>> Edmund Viall (35:27):
Yeah, younger, probably a bit less interested in
the sort of, the geeky, uh, sort of like booze and
cocktails, more into, like, experiences as a
whole. I think that's, that's definitely something
that we've seen changed and I think, you know, in
2010, 2010 was a time of cocktail enthusiasts and
I think that we still get all those in cocktail
(35:49):
enthusiasts coming through the door, but they're
all like 10, 15 years older. So, you know, how to
engage with a new generation of drinkers and
revelers is a question we're asking ourselves all
the time.
>> Susan Schwartz (35:58):
Well, I think you've answered my last question,
which was what do you see for the future? But
it's, I guess, engaging with the Gen Zs and
whatever is coming along the way, you know, and
how to bring them into this world that we love and
even interest them into the music that we love.
>> Roisin Stimson (36:16):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (36:17):
Yes, yes, I think so. I mean, I read a report
recently that said that, you know, in the last
three or four years, you know, something like £86
billion has been wiped off the value of the big
five, you know, Pello, Ricard, Diageo, they are
noticing that they've got a challenge on their
hands as well, uh, in terms of engaging with the
(36:37):
new generations who, who look at experiences in a
slightly different way. I mean, I think, you know,
luckily there are still people out there who, at a
younger age who see what we do and it really
chimes with them and we're very lucky for that.
But I think certainly ways of connecting with
those people and getting them through the door and
getting them coming back is going to be a big
(36:57):
question that we ask ourselves in coming years.
>> Susan Schwartz (37:00):
Well, you've been doing stuff right for 15 years.
I don't doubt that for the next 15 years you will
also be doing it right. Plus you have some little
ones who are growing up and they can say, mom,
dad, uh, no, we don't like it that way. We want it
this way. So hopefully they can be sounding boards
as well.
>> Roisin Stimson (37:16):
Our 12 year old does try to give us business
advice.
>> Edmund Viall (37:18):
Yes, that's interesting. Although, to be honest,
we should probably be in the. He should at least
be able to make some good Bloody Mary by now.
>> Roisin Stimson (37:26):
Yeah, I know. We've really been quite sure.
>> Edmund Viall (37:28):
Uh, you know, they. Morning.
>> Susan Schwartz (37:32):
Wait, wait, wait. Was that what you were doing for
your dad?
>> Edmund Viall (37:36):
Actually, I did. I was, I was, I was called upon
to butter from an early age for sure. And they can
do that. They're quite good at that.
>> Roisin Stimson (37:45):
They are quite good, yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (37:46):
Um, but, yeah, cocktail making skills. No, that's
not something. It was actually, I think what
inspired me to think that there's a scene in Mad
Men where, where Don Draper's, uh, daughter brings
him a Bloody Mary in bed. Um, so I think, uh,
yeah, I think if he has any interest in entering
(38:07):
the family business, then it's probably quite a
good start.
>> Susan Schwartz (38:10):
Yes. When he's of legal age. Of course. Yes, of
course, of course. Well, thank you so much for
sitting down with me. I really love this chat. I
got to learn so much more about you and it was
great to have you both on the show. So thank you.
>> Roisin Stimson (38:24):
Thanks for the invitation. We're happy to. Yeah,
nice. Nice to reflect back on all the years and,
uh, everything we've learned. So thank you.
>> Susan Schwartz (38:33):
Absolutely. And hopefully I'll see you in one of
your bars and we can cheers to the next 15 years.
>> Roisin Stimson (38:38):
Yes.
>> Edmund Viall (38:38):
Here's to that.
>> Susan Schwartz (38:39):
Yeah, here's to that.
I so want to thank Rosie and Edmund for joining me
on the program. Of course. Our cocktail of the
week is a Nightjar classic. Our cocktail of the
week is the Toronto, created by Marion Beck for
(39:01):
their original menu. According to Rosie and
Edmond, it is possibly the only drink on the menu
that has barely changed in terms of spec since
they opened their menu version uses Woodford
Reserve bourbon. They use maple syrup infused with
coffee and pecan in a tribute to the drink's
Canadian moniker. The fanciful garnish is also a
(39:23):
functional one, a cloud of candy floss or cotton
candy smoked with orange blossom. It can either be
eaten side by side with a cocktail or added bit by
bit as an interesting sweetener to balance out the
bright, bitter Fernet Branca. So add the following
(39:44):
ingredients to a mixing 50 milliliters of Woodford
Reserve bourbon, 12.5 milliliters of Fernet Branca
and 7.5 mils of maple syrup infused with roasted
coffee beans and pecans. Add ice and then stir,
stir, stir when it's chilled, then strain it into
(40:08):
a rocks glass. If you have any cotton candy or
candy floss, then garnish it with that. You'll
find this recipe in all the cocktails of the week
at A Lush Life. Venice is so nice when you don't
(40:29):
have to work.
If you live for lush life, then.
Make sure you head out to the bars you love and
order a drink. And Lush Life is always and will be
forever. Produced by Evo, Terra and Simpler Media
Productions, which leads me to say the wise words
of Oscar Wilde all things in moderation, including
moderation, and always drink responsibly. Next
(40:54):
time we head to Northern Kentucky for the last
episode of 2025 and until then, bottom.
Some birds sing at dawn to wake us up. But today
we're celebrating the birthday of a certain
nocturnal songbird whose award winning cocktails,
wonderful hospitality and sultry nightly
soundtrack have been keeping London warbling for
15 years. I'm, um, Susan Schwartz, your drinking
(00:29):
companion and this is Lush Life podcast. Every
week we're inspired to live life one cocktail at a
time. Today we're turning our attention to
Nightjar, the shortage bar that rewrote London's
late night playbook. Joining me are the brilliant
(00:51):
duo behind it, Roisin Stimson and Edmund Viall.
Long before Nightjar became a fixture on the
World's 50 Best Bars list, the top 500 bars and
every other list in town, Rosie and Edmund had a
dream and the drive to create a place that brought
(01:11):
together all their passions, all their bars.
Nightjar, Oriole and Swift hold a special place in
my heart and you'll see why. I don't want to
reveal too much of their story in this intro. So
let's get right into the episode and have them
guide us through the story of Nightjar. But before
that, if you love Lush Life, we would so
appreciate your support. By signing up to our
(01:33):
newsletter, you.
Can get our advice on anything to.
Do with home bartending, where to drink in every
major city, special recipes and even your very own
Lush Life mug. Just head to
alushlifemanual.substack.com and sign up. Now grab
that old fashioned and let's join Rosie and
(01:53):
Edmund.
It's so great to have you guys on the show
finally. I can't believe it. It's been too long.
>> Roisin Stimson (02:02):
I know, it's great to be here. Thank uh, you,
thank you so much. So my name's Rosie, I own
Nightjar, Oriole and Swift with Edmund, my husband
and business partner. We both grew up in London. I
grew up in Finchley and uh, always wanted to be
part of the central London scene. So uh, I think
that's partly why I've ended up doing bars and
(02:24):
entertainment places in central London. But I came
from a very kind of arts loving musical background
and uh, born to an Irish mother and an Irish music
playing father, although he's British, my dad
really loved the kind of the big life of eating
and drinking and we had lots of, we hosted lots of
parties at home with lots of live music and things
(02:46):
and so I really always grew up feeling that that
was the best of things and I'm an amateur singer
myself and when Edmund and I were in Dublin
univers, well we're at Trinity In Dublin together.
We would go and see shows, you know, sort of jazz
gigs and things. And there was one seminal one
where it was a very kind of old school jazz gig in
(03:06):
a very dingy pub. And, um, literally the idea was,
wouldn't it be great if we could see this in the
environment that it was set in, back in the 20s,
30s, et cetera. That was the seed of the idea. And
obviously after that, that was Nightjar. What
became Nightjar.
>> Susan Schwartz (03:20):
And wait, wait, wait, you're going way too fast.
Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. You have lush
life. We take it very slowly, I love. Well,
that's.
>> Roisin Stimson (03:30):
Anyway, that's how it started.
>> Susan Schwartz (03:31):
We're gonna wait, we're gonna unpack a lot of
that.
>> Roisin Stimson (03:33):
All right, all right, all right.
>> Susan Schwartz (03:34):
Edmund, why don't you just introduce yourself?
>> Edmund Viall (03:37):
Yeah. So London born and bred in, um, Islington
and Highbury, to a. A mother and father who loved
hosting, Particularly my dad. He's the kind of guy
who'll offer you a drink and if you refuse, he'll
have such a pained expression on his face that you
end up accepting it anyway.
>> Susan Schwartz (03:55):
Was there a specific drink that he had that he
would offer?
>> Edmund Viall (03:58):
Moved through a lot over the years.
>> Roisin Stimson (04:00):
Very boozy Pimms.
>> Edmund Viall (04:01):
Yeah, that was.
>> Roisin Stimson (04:02):
Yeah, not very much Pims. Lots of other things.
>> Edmund Viall (04:05):
That's right. And yeah, Glass say he's now. He's
actually now really into Negronis.
>> Susan Schwartz (04:09):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (04:09):
And, um, sometimes he'll offer you a Negroni with
a little bit of soda water topped up. So it's
barely even a drink. Yeah. So, yeah, it's someone
who. My father was someone who. To show people a
good time. And I think that seeing that over the
years and enjoying it and being the beneficiary of
it has been very formative for me and what
(04:30):
motivated me to get into hospitality.
>> Susan Schwartz (04:33):
Now, Rosie said you both went to Dublin to
university.
>> Roisin Stimson (04:36):
Yeah.
>> Susan Schwartz (04:37):
What were you going to study?
>> Roisin Stimson (04:39):
We both completed our, uh, four years there and I
did History of Art and Spanish. All right, Edmund.
>> Edmund Viall (04:44):
And I was English lit and Spanish.
>> Susan Schwartz (04:46):
And you just happened to meet there or you knew
each other beforehand?
>> Roisin Stimson (04:51):
We didn't know. We didn't know each other
beforehand. But, uh, Edmund came a year after I
was there and then I was on a year off as part of
my Spanish course. So I didn't meet him initially.
And then in my third year, I met him through
mutual friends.
>> Edmund Viall (05:04):
Um, yeah, we kind of got set up a little bit.
>> Susan Schwartz (05:07):
A little bit set up. And when you went in, what
were you thinking might be your careers?
>> Roisin Stimson (05:13):
Oh, I thought that, uh, I would like to be an art
dealer. Ah. I think that was the general idea,
but, you know, that was sort of one of them. I had
lots of ideas, but that was certainly why I did
that course.
>> Edmund Viall (05:24):
Like many humanities degree holders, I did not
have much of an idea. I think I went through a
film director, you know, a nonprofit director, uh,
banker, lawyer maybe. All sorts of ideas. But as
happens when, you know, when you leave university,
you do end up having to get a proper job quite
(05:45):
quickly. And that's what I did.
>> Roisin Stimson (05:46):
Yeah. Right.
>> Susan Schwartz (05:47):
So you had.
You went to the Seminole Music hall or what was
it? It was a concert.
>> Roisin Stimson (05:54):
It was a very dingy pub on Georgia street in
Dublin. And it was, uh, an artist called Camilo
Sullivan.
>> Edmund Viall (06:02):
So she's actually like. She's probably one of the
biggest names in sort of cabaret now.
>> Roisin Stimson (06:05):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (06:05):
Um, she's very much about storytelling through
song and all this kind of stuff. And it was. It
was a really, really special performance. But as
Rosie said, it was a special performance in a sort
of slightly dingy, you know, tiny, smoky pub
basement.
>> Roisin Stimson (06:19):
Wet on the floor.
>> Edmund Viall (06:20):
Yeah, exactly. Sticky floors. And the music and
the performance was so transportive, you know, it
really took you somewhere. And I think we both, as
Rosie said, we both kind of dreamt of a place
where that sort of music would find its home and
would kind of fall in with everything else, with
the atmosphere, with the drinks, with the menu and
(06:42):
all that kind of thing. And as Rose said, that's
kind of where the kind of germ of night, uh, was.
Was laid like that. This idea of a really
authentic experience that kind of harped back to
the times before, like, PA systems, before
gramophones, where, you know, if you were in a,
uh, bar and drinking and there was to be music, it
was someone on the stage with a piano, you know, a
(07:05):
clarinet, uh, or what have you. And I know,
certainly for me, I think for Rosie as well, that
there's something about that kind of those
scratchy old records. You know, the Billie
Holidays, the Betsy Smiths, the. The, uh, Count
Basies. That. It. To me, it takes me away just to
listen to it. And so, you know, Nightjar's kind of
like, where. Where does it take us to?
>> Susan Schwartz (07:27):
So you had this idea, but then you said after
university, people get regular jobs.
>> Roisin Stimson (07:33):
I do what all people who, you know, do history of
art did that dream of when I went to work at an
auction house and I went. I sort of moved up in
management there. But I was maybe there for about
three and a half years before I decided to go and
work with, uh, artists. No, actually, at that
point we decided to, uh, do Nightjar, didn't we?
(07:55):
Well, what would become Nightjar?
>> Susan Schwartz (07:57):
So what now? It opened in 2010 because it's its
15th anniversary, but kind of how many years
before that it was?
>> Edmund Viall (08:03):
08 when we decided, if we're not going to do it
now, we're never going to do it.
>> Roisin Stimson (08:09):
What year did you start working after university?
2004. 2005. I had been working since 2004.
>> Edmund Viall (08:16):
04. No. Yeah.
>> Roisin Stimson (08:18):
Oh, yeah. So 2003, I left a year before him. So,
uh, I had become kind of disenchanted with
working. Christie's is a bit like, well, once
you've worked here, where do you go? And then we
just said to each other, why? And Edmund was
working at Freud Communications.
>> Edmund Viall (08:34):
And then, yeah, so they're kind of a corporate.
Well, they're a communication specialist. And I
was in the corporate department. Um, very
interesting job. Not, uh, one that I particularly
found, I didn't find particularly fulfilling. And
so I think in 2006 I moved to do Teach first,
which is like Teach for America in the UK. So I
went to be a teacher and learn that, uh, on the
(08:55):
job for a couple of years. And the idea is it's
like, tends to put graduates or recent graduates
into really challenging school situations to try
and be inspired or be inspired and give education
at the very sharp end to go. And so I did that for
two years. And at the end of that, I think having
worked very, very hard, I kind of felt like, wow,
(09:15):
this is, you know, if it's going to get this
intense, then we should probably be putting this
amount of effort into our own dreams. Um, and so,
yeah, we kind of bit the bullet at that stage and
thought, right, whatever happens for the next
couple of years, we're going to try and get this
thing off the ground.
>> Roisin Stimson (09:30):
And then we were like, well, we better get some
jobs part many jobs while we're waiting for this
thing to happen. And then it kind of took a while,
didn't it? And I went to work with art, helping
artists make work for a publicly funded
organization and also did a, uh, an MA and
creative production for live performance. Because,
you know, the whole live performance thing was new
to me, like programming at all. And Edmund went to
(09:52):
work at Shoreditch House to learn bartender.
>> Edmund Viall (09:55):
So I wanted to know. Know a little bit about what
actual proper hospitality. And so I've worked in
pubs and, and that sort of thing. Yeah,
previously. Uh, so I had, I had an idea I knew
that I enjoyed serving people, but we wanted to
bring this to a high level. So I went to work in
say Haus group to kind of see the best and the
worst of what hospitality can be. Also did a
(10:17):
little bit supply teaching on the side.
>> Susan Schwartz (10:20):
Obviously it didn't put you off, which is good.
>> Edmund Viall (10:24):
No, I think. Yeah, yeah. When, when it comes to
opening a bar, especially when you uh, wear.
Looking back, we were absolutely total angenue.
Like we had very, very little idea of what we were
doing. And you know, finding the right site can
take a very, very long time. And you know, once
you found the site, actually negotiating with the
landlord and you know, getting all of your ducks
(10:44):
in a row. So yeah, the process probably took the
best part of two years.
>> Susan Schwartz (10:49):
Were there certain bars that you absolutely loved
in London that you, you were inspired by or did
you have that vision already?
>> Edmund Viall (10:58):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Roisin Stimson (10:59):
What do you think? I mean, I think we, for my, my
purposes, I mean we liked going out and eating and
drinking cocktails and things, but we weren't. I
wasn't connected into the scene, you know, we just
had for my book. It was just this was a place that
didn't exist that we wanted to create. Um, and so
I think uh, I was pretty green at that point.
>> Edmund Viall (11:19):
Yeah, me too. I mean there are a few bars, uh,
that are still around now. So for example, like
Freud, which I think is still got a little
basement cocktail then. Yeah, that was a place
that felt very, very cool. And then as we got
close to actually making it happen and started
trying to leverage what contacts we did have in
the drinks industry, we were taken to places like
Montgomery Place and Montgomery Place, which at
(11:41):
the time was really iconic bar El Gamion. Of
course another place was around back then.
>> Roisin Stimson (11:47):
Milk and Honey.
>> Edmund Viall (11:47):
Milk and honey, of course. So you know, we did get
a little bit of a baptism, uh, into uh, a lounge
bohemia. That's another one I think is still open
as well.
>> Susan Schwartz (11:57):
But you know, it's so funny you should say that.
That is one of when I first started getting. And
even though I loved going to bars all the time,
someone booked that for their birthday and I was
just blown away. And yes, I do walk by it
sometimes and I'm m talking like early 2000. I
don't even know when it opens like obviously to
between 2008 and 2010 because you guys were there
too. It's a long time ago.
(12:18):
And they were. I remember one drink was candy
floss.
You know, the guy was really, really creative.
>> Edmund Viall (12:25):
Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, he's still around doing
like, cocktail tasting menus and experiences and
stuff like that, which is, you know, quite a
testament his creativity.
>> Susan Schwartz (12:34):
Did you think because you're number one, I have to
give a shout out. We've just had the top 500 bars
and you are in the top 100, number 71, and your
other bar is number 92. And considering you
started long ago to be in that top 100, I mean,
congratulations. It's a testament to what you've
(12:55):
done. But your cocktails, obviously, for being on
this list and lists, uh, there's. I could, like
the whole show could be about me listing how many
awards you guys have won, but that maybe I'm
moving too far ahead. But the, you know, the
cocktails themselves and the quality of cocktails.
(13:16):
Was that something that you kind of thought of,
uh, found yourself thinking about while at, uh,
Shoreditch House? They have to be at a certain
level.
>> Edmund Viall (13:24):
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there was a.
There was a good level of cocktails at Shortage
House. They tend to be aimed at quite a wide
audience. But back in those times, 2008, 2009, I
think the sort of. The vintage cocktail revival
was in full swing. You know, people were finding
books out there that dated back 100 years, 120
years. And, you know, that kind of full spectrum
of cocktail history was really, uh, opening up to
(13:45):
people. And I think we found that we got some of
those things like Ted Hayes vintage Spirit of
Cotton cocktails and in Buy by Dave Wondridge and
yeah, these kind of like seminal books that kind
of opened up cocktail history were very inspiring
to us.
>> Roisin Stimson (13:59):
Yeah, exactly. We were looking for someone who
could sort of deliver all of that. And then, um, I
don't want to jump too far into it, but we on one
of our trips around London trying out cocktail
bars and things, we were, um, introduced to Marion
Beck, who was our first bar manager. And then he
really raised the game. I mean, he took the brief,
he.
>> Edmund Viall (14:19):
Blew the doors off, you could say.
>> Roisin Stimson (14:20):
Yeah, one of our chief skills, actually, and maybe
any entrepreneur is finding great talent and
bringing them on board. Yeah, uh, keeping them on
board. And yeah, we've had lots of incredibly
talented. I mean, you know, we're in the. That's
what we're in the business of, is managing
incredibly talented people. And he was the first.
>> Edmund Viall (14:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, the initial brief,
the menu is the same concept that it is now, which
is like a trip through cocktail history, you know,
taking you all the way back to pre Prohibition
Derry Thomas era, uh, and before to the present
age. And so that was the idea. You always have
these little sections, like an anthology. But I
think at the time, I think our idea would be.
(15:01):
Would have been to cleave a little bit closer to
the original recipes. And it was Mariana's like,
yeah, that's fine. But what if we reimagine these
drinks? You know, what if we put in homemade
ingredients that give them a unique touch and
have. Marion is the king of the garnish.
>> Susan Schwartz (15:16):
Yeah, the garnishes were very famous. They still
are very famous.
>> Edmund Viall (15:19):
Exactly. Uh, and so, you know, just. Just putting
that extra layer of experience on top of them,
which I think really helped to set us apart in
those early years.
>> Roisin Stimson (15:28):
Yeah.
>> Susan Schwartz (15:29):
And. And with the music. Talk me through even
finding all the.
People, you know, is there a massive.
Amount or you have to do a lot of research into,
you know, trying to find people, or was it just
like, oh, my God, there's a place now so all of
these acts can find. Finally have a home?
>> Roisin Stimson (15:45):
Well, yeah, no, you do actually have to put quite
a lot of legwork into it. But then, uh, like
anything, you know, once you've sort of got done
that, then it starts to bear fruit. And so there
were lots of places that were open around then
that aren't now. Um, I'm thinking of Last days of
Decadence down in Shoreditch and Proud Cabaret
and, uh, Volupte. Yeah. Uh, where they were kind
(16:08):
of these alternative styles of. I mean, we were
thinking about cabaret back then as well, because
that was part of the old scene in the 20s and 30s.
So we were looking at all different types of acts.
Uh, and then. And also Ronnie's upstairs, the kind
of fringe places. And so we just went to those
gigs and introduced ourselves and met people. And
then once you've got a flow of people, then word
(16:31):
gets around and you get introduced. And sometimes
you'll see a band, a guy that you know from one
band turn up in another. That happens a lot
because actually what we do, this sort of vintage
popular music, is pretty small scene actually, of
very dedicated, passionate and creative people.
Um, so everyone passes on, you know, the word. And
(16:52):
we love music. We grew up in musical families. We
prize it very highly. But different stars.
Edmund's father and mum are into. He had classical
musicians, professional musicians in his, uh,
lineage. We're very much popular Irish music and
country music in my family, playing all the time.
>> Edmund Viall (17:10):
Meet in the middle of a jazz.
>> Roisin Stimson (17:11):
Yeah. And so we, you know, it's. We come from
different worlds musically, but we have great
respect for Musicians, the hours of work it takes
to get that good, to be able to perform. We treat
people well, including our musicians, and then
that, that bears fruit, really. People keep coming
back and um, passing the word on.
>> Edmund Viall (17:29):
Yeah. And I think Rosie's not giving herself
enough credit in terms of building up the roster
of musicians. Big job at the beginning.
>> Roisin Stimson (17:36):
And I've had great people join, you know, people
who've been in general management who then come to
help in events. And a, uh, girl I'm thinking of
now at the moment, Natalia, has been brilliant and
there's a new girl helping us, Mimi. So, you know,
they're team effort really at this stage.
>> Edmund Viall (17:51):
Yeah, it's a small world, the vintage jazz
revision scene in London. So like a lot of people
play in each other's bands and I think if word
gets out that there's a place that is good to play
is going to treat you fairly and pay you properly.
>> Susan Schwartz (18:03):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (18:04):
Then you know that quite quickly you start to get
inquiries and to be.
>> Roisin Stimson (18:09):
Treated nicely and respectfully and all those sort
of things. So, you know.
>> Susan Schwartz (18:12):
Now let's go. Before there was a reputation like
that, when you're opening these doors in 2010, did
you have like six months worth of people on hold
to play just in case it worked? I mean, what. When
you jumped in, you know, what was it like? Tell me
about that experience.
>> Roisin Stimson (18:32):
Ah, back through the summer, 15 years. I, um,
think that we, I think that probably we did what
everyone does is over program it and then like, oh
God, we don't have enough people, you know,
because we run a cover charge base where you.
Which is an American, uh, formula. Actually. We'd
been to New York to understand how people managed,
(18:54):
you know, these kind of, uh, live music gigs and
things. And there were lots of different stuff.
One was a, um, you pay $20, you have a drink that
pays for the band and then, you know. And it's a
two drink minimum or something.
>> Edmund Viall (19:04):
Yeah, it's like Vinny Vanguard.
>> Roisin Stimson (19:05):
Yeah, exactly. So that. Because nowhere else
really did it like that. Uh, it was either a
lounge bar where the music or like a hotel bar
where the music is paid for, so.
>> Edmund Viall (19:15):
Or Roddy's where you've got to be completely
quiet.
>> Roisin Stimson (19:16):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (19:17):
You know, pay 45, 50, 60, 70 quid for a ticket.
And it's all about music and everything else is
like an afterthought.
>> Roisin Stimson (19:22):
So that was a new, new way of doing things. And.
And so there's a bit of spoon feeding people
initially because they're like, what is this? We
don't really know what this is. But we over
programmed it then we didn't have enough people
coming in obviously because it was a new bar. And
then you're like, cancel fume, move things around,
whatever. So I think from memory we had people on
(19:43):
Thursday, Friday, Saturday initially, and that was
reasonably busy. And then later as the, the demand
grew and we knew that we could pay people, we put
people on through the week. So yeah, I think we,
it was steady, steady growth really.
>> Susan Schwartz (19:57):
Did you find that there was, there were people
from the beginning? Did people know about you?
>> Roisin Stimson (20:03):
I think I remember there being a big, great press
night, lots of height, you know, a great first two
nights or something and then third night is like
not as busy and you're like. And certainly I
remember uh, our GM at that time, um, Becky, who
also got on to work in um, music programming in
(20:23):
London and things. She, she would do a Tuesday
night by herself on the floor. And so it can't
have been, it must have been about 30 people to.
>> Edmund Viall (20:33):
Do the nights off by ourselves as well.
>> Roisin Stimson (20:34):
Oh yeah, we used to do them as well. Sorry. I mean
in the first year we worked outrageous amount of
hours. But then I think after, I think probably
after year one. A year, you know, every bar needs
about a year for critical mass. Maybe a bit longer
at the moment after year one, I think and, and we
got, I think we were named in class, weren't we?
>> Edmund Viall (20:52):
Yeah, we won the best new bar in class awards and
a couple of other things. I think there was just a
bit of, a bit of hype around us started to build.
>> Roisin Stimson (20:59):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (20:59):
Um, and I think it's actually much better for hype
to build six to eight months in rather than just
as you're opening because yeah, you know, even the
most m. Seasoned operator is going to make a lot
of mistakes in their first few weeks or months of
opening a bar. Like, you know, there's every new
site brings new problems and new things you
haven't thought about. So I think in some ways
that was timed quite well because it, it meant
(21:22):
that when people started coming down in their
droves, we were relatively ready to accommodate
them.
>> Roisin Stimson (21:27):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (21:28):
And get the drinks out fast and make sure the
experience really good. So yeah, it became quite a
few years of just being completely packed every
night. Right.
>> Roisin Stimson (21:37):
Yeah.
>> Susan Schwartz (21:38):
Uh, and the cocktail menu, were there any
surprises like oh, this cocktail is so much more
popular than we thought it would be or oh, no
one's drinking this one, you know. Did you,
throughout these years have you seen certain
things come and go drinks wise?
>> Edmund Viall (21:55):
I mean, I Think we've always kind of done a wide
range of really fun, interesting drinks and so um,
I'm trying to think about drinks that have been
misses that we would might have not expected. I
think whenever you. In the days of MARION we had
48 drink menus so there was certainly some drinks
(22:17):
um, uh, that didn't quite capture people's
imagination or didn't get, you know, didn't get
ordered quite as much.
>> Susan Schwartz (22:23):
That's a big menu.
>> Roisin Stimson (22:25):
Yes.
>> Edmund Viall (22:25):
Oh my God.
>> Roisin Stimson (22:26):
I mean everything was homemade and this.
>> Susan Schwartz (22:29):
Huge menu of signature cocktails and if you think
if someone is and all the other people who are
just ordering like could I have a martini or
something?
>> Roisin Stimson (22:35):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (22:35):
Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean we have very little
proper prep space. Yeah. Everything was done at LA
MNU in those days. Very little pre batching, very
little storage. Um, looking back I think the only
way that it was made to work was by everyone
working themselves to exhaustion.
>> Roisin Stimson (22:51):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, those were the. Yeah, it was
uh, lots of practices like well being and you
know, carefully managed rotors and all that sort
of stuff has come into play. I'm always surprised
by how one of our top uh, performing drinks and we
keep, we keep it on for this reason is the London
Mule which is you know, essentially a gin mule. A
long refreshing drink. And I think it says
(23:12):
something about people's tastes, right that
sometimes they're coming just for you know, what
they know and they love. And there are classics
for a reason and m, that's sort of quite a
comforting thing. And then people also like this
sort of show stopping ones like drinking from a
shell with the sort of things that feel quite
sensual and, and make great pictures.
>> Edmund Viall (23:33):
I mean there's four drinks that have more or less
in one iteration rather been on the menu for the
whole 15 years. There's the London Mule that Rosie
mentioned. There's the barrel aged Zombie which is
not only very boozy and very fun but has got this
kind of reformented pineapple juice which gives
this lovely kind of like caramelized deep flavor.
(23:54):
We have the Toronto which is a kind of old
fashioned twist, a little bit of Fernet which
obviously bartenders love to have a bit of fun
presentation. And then the last one is maybe the
Samurai which is a Japanese whiskey based drink. A
little bit of a riff on a whiskey sour type type
thing that we've had in one iteration the whole
(24:16):
time. And I think that's for me that's the thing
that really has hit home over the years is that
actually we innovate and we change A lot to get
through 15 years. What's really important is
iteration rather than innovation. If you focus
everything in being the most creative, the most
(24:36):
innovative bar, which, you know, Nitron might have
been said to be back in 2011 or 2012, at some
point, someone's going to come along and be more
even innovative and more creative than you in the
eyes of the world. And then all of a sudden, the
line lights off you. So in terms of longevity and
lasting, I think what we found over the years is
it's best to focus on the things that people come
(24:58):
back for.
>> Susan Schwartz (24:59):
Uh, 100%. There's a couple sayings, if it ain't
broke, why fix it? There's that. But also, if you
don't change, you die. So you've obviously gotten
the right balance of that to still not only be
here through Covid, but 15 years and still getting
awarded, you know, so that you obviously have such
(25:22):
an instinct for these things. But I would be
remiss. I know we're talking about Nightjar. It's
all about Nightjar's 15th anniversary. Because I
loved Oriole. Both in the old space and in the new
space, you have this wonderful bar. It's going
well. Why were you crazy enough to start another
one?
>> Roisin Stimson (25:43):
But businesses sort of take on a life of their
own. And we essentially, we had loads of very
qualified professional people in management who
were keen to stay with the company. And so that
gave us the, uh, you know, the bare bones of being
able to start something else. And so it felt like
a natural fit. We didn't, at that time, feel that
(26:03):
another Nightjar was, uh, what was needed. And so
we started looking for another venue. And then
once you find the venue, it kind of has a feel of
its own. And so we sort of started scouting around
for a different bird and a different concept and
things. And that was really how it happened. I
mean, I think we started looking pretty early,
maybe two years in, and it was another five years
(26:26):
after opening. It was 2015 when we opened.
>> Edmund Viall (26:29):
Yeah, I mean, I think taking one's time over these
things is. Is good because, yeah, we looked at a
lot of different opportunities. And I think, you
know, there's two things there. As Rosie said,
there's the fact that if you've got great people
and they're kind of hitting the top of the ceiling
in one organization, you kind of want to give them
the opportunity. But also, I think probably we are
(26:49):
kind of entrepreneurs. And, like, once something
is going well and there's cash being generated,
the question is, what next and, you know, at that
point we were in hospitality. You know, go on
next. And so the logical progression is to find
another. Get to find a new project to work on. Uh,
and so, yeah, Oriole came about like that. And we
(27:10):
wanted. Yeah, obviously Nightjar is a sort of very
sort of vertical, linear historical theme. And
with Oriole, we wanted to kind of make it more of
a geographical thing, you know, about exploration
and with drinks that rather than being inspired by
time, to be inspired by place. So the idea with
the Oriole menu is that, you know, the core of
each drink is a certain part of the world, whether
(27:32):
that's the ingredient or the glassware, or the
cultural practices that inspire the drink. And
that's how they recreate the menus at Oriole.
>> Susan Schwartz (27:41):
When you heard that there was a space in
Smithfield Market, were you like, oh, my God,
that's so cool? You know, we've got. We've got to
see it because it was, uh. Yeah, it was sad that,
that they closed Smithfield Market to redo it. But
it must have been so cool when you first saw it.
>> Roisin Stimson (27:59):
And we'd been to New York and been around the meat
pack. We'd looked at a venue in the meatpacking
district. And I think that probably subconsciously
we were like, oh, the meatpacking district of
London, Great. But also it was premium free. It
had been a historical bar. It felt very much like
London.
>> Susan Schwartz (28:16):
Oh, it had been a bar beforehand.
>> Roisin Stimson (28:18):
Had been a pub. Well, it was called the Cock
Tavern. A very, um, kind of legendary place where
the kind of painters of the 1950s, Lucian Freud
and his peers, and would kind of cross paths with
the meat market workers who were coming off shift
and also the city boys who were. Who were having a
breakfast before going into the city. So it was a
(28:41):
real cross section.
>> Edmund Viall (28:42):
Yeah, it's USP because it opened at 6am yeah. So
you would get that real kind of small, uh, guns,
board of different people at six o'. Clock. You
know, people kind of, uh, piling out fabric and
looking for a last drink. And like Rosie said, the
city boys, the traders, the cabbies.
>> Roisin Stimson (28:59):
But by the time we'd taken. I mean, we inherited
that license, but by the time we took it on, it
had been, you know, those. The glory days had
been, were well and truly over. So it felt
exciting to give it new life.
>> Edmund Viall (29:11):
I don't think we quite knew what we were biting
off when we took on the site. Then when we went
in, we just bought this huge site with loads of
back of the House, all the stuff. We didn't have a
nightjar and we thought, wow, how amazing. Look at
this great canvas that we can build up. But I
think, yeah, what you don't realize is that, you
know, a big, empty, stripped out site, it's very,
(29:33):
very expensive.
>> Susan Schwartz (29:35):
Very daunting, I'm sure.
>> Edmund Viall (29:36):
Uh, exactly. It takes a long time and a lot of
money to get it up and running.
>> Roisin Stimson (29:40):
I think we were undaunted. It was only once it was
ready and we opened it. We were like, wow, this is
really very big. And now we've got to fill it with
people. It lived there for seven years until we
were unfortunately, uh, asked to move along and
make, um, way for the Museum of London, which is
Londoners. You feel like. I'm happy with that.
That's okay. But, um, uh, it took time to get
(30:03):
going. But by the time, you know, we were asked to
leave, it was, it.
>> Edmund Viall (30:07):
Was in full swing.
>> Roisin Stimson (30:08):
Full swing and one of, um, our best performing
bars. So it was very bittersweet.
>> Susan Schwartz (30:13):
Oh, I'm sure it was bittersweet for me too, uh,
being one of my favorite places. Now, Edmund, you
said something about. Oh, yes, I guess we are in
hospitality. I just want to return to that. You
just. That was kind of a little comment that you
just said. But, you know, do you, you obviously
you are. It's 15 years since you are in
hospitality. Do you like, pinch yourself every day
(30:33):
going, yes, it worked. We're so happy. Is it
everything that you thought it would be? I mean,
that's a big question. I know that's a big
question. To put you on the spot like that.
>> Edmund Viall (30:43):
Sorry, on one side, absolutely. Like, it's been a
journey, been full of joy and fulfillment and, you
know, making people happy, showing them a good
time, accolades, travel.
>> Roisin Stimson (30:55):
I don't think we could have imagined just how
amazing, uh, an experience it would. It could have
been. I think, you know, we weren't really plugged
into this whole world of drinks and brands and
trips and all of that stuff and the kind of
community of people. So in terms of that and also
the people who've worked for us that we. And who
are our clients, all of that has been tremendous.
>> Edmund Viall (31:18):
Uh, so, yeah, I think that that's one thing we
didn't see going in.
>> Roisin Stimson (31:20):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (31:21):
Uh, but also, you know, over 15 years, and I think
this 15 years in particular of history has been
kind of full of black swans, Brexit, Covid,
Ukraine, big geopolitical humdingers that have
changed people's habits, have changed, their
finances have changed. Our uh, workforce and those
(31:42):
been very challenging things to navigate. And, and
at the same time as well, the way the marketing
happens, you know, the way that, you know, in 0, 8
and 9, 10, you know, social media was still in its
infancy, you know, traditional present
communications was still. Yeah, the way that you
would market a bar of hospitality. And so I feel
(32:02):
like although we've had constants that we've kept
the same throughout, I think have kept those bars
going and kept them top of tree or close to it,
we've also had to adapt a lot in that time.
>> Roisin Stimson (32:13):
Too, particularly in the last five years.
>> Susan Schwartz (32:15):
Are there any specifics you can share about how
you've had to adapt?
>> Roisin Stimson (32:23):
Um, I mean, I think Covid was just a series of
adapting to different rules almost daily about
numbers of people, whether you were open or
closed, how many people could come in, lots of
pivoting as they like to say. But then I think,
you know, the knock on effect of COVID and Brexit
and everything that's happened since is that
there's been behavioral change, people uh, working
(32:44):
from home, uh, which obviously impacts how people
socialize, the order of spontaneity around being,
uh, socializing and also the cost of living
crisis, people not having uh, the money to spend
on going out. And I think cocktails are one of the
first things that don't make the list, uh,
because, you know, people have to prioritize.
>> Edmund Viall (33:06):
I think one thing that we've changed a little bit
is sort of the management philosophy. And there's
two reasons. The first is I think, you know, when
we opened the model of people who came to work for
us, they were coming to work with very motivated,
very, very skilled people. But also just, just as
in, in many, many kitchens with the great chef,
(33:27):
people are sort of. Yeah, there's an atmosphere
where people are uh, working very, very hard, but
also kind of maybe being driven a little bit. So
there was, I think there was that that we felt had
to change, especially as time goes on. And you
know, I think hospitality in many ways is a much
better place to work than it was in 2010 because I
(33:49):
think people have, are not afraid to ask, uh, for
better conditions and you know, more fairness and
better work life balance. And also as time has
gone on and we've had, you know, over the course
of Nitro's life, we've had three kids and we have
had other projects and business interests that
have taken up some of our time. So you know, it's
(34:12):
been a case of having a team that's more, takes
more Responsibility. People stepping up with Swift
and Bobby Amir, for example, took on employee
shareholders who really has a sense of ownership.
And that's a model that we're replicating across
the other bars as well. Now I think that's a real
thing because I think, you know, when you've got
(34:33):
five different bars, you can't give that level of
attention that we did in those first years of
nyjar, where every detail was under our, uh,
supervision. So I think that's something that we
adapted quite a lot. And now I think marketing as
well, like we spoke about when we first started,
it was all about Facebook.
>> Susan Schwartz (34:54):
Yes, of course.
>> Edmund Viall (34:55):
Uh, and then Instagram came along and obviously
Instagram is still a big thing. You know, I think
nowadays you've got to look across all platforms,
got to think about your SEO, you've got to think
about deploying Google Ads in the right way at the
right time, all this kind of stuff. Like it's a
whole suite of things you've got to manage that we
couldn't have even imagined, um, yeah, back in the
(35:16):
early days. So that's another thing that we, we've
had to adapt.
>> Roisin Stimson (35:19):
We're like two, three generations on now. So, you
know, we're like marketing to people who are
generally much younger than us.
>> Edmund Viall (35:27):
Yeah, younger, probably a bit less interested in
the sort of, the geeky, uh, sort of like booze and
cocktails, more into, like, experiences as a
whole. I think that's, that's definitely something
that we've seen changed and I think, you know, in
2010, 2010 was a time of cocktail enthusiasts and
I think that we still get all those in cocktail
(35:49):
enthusiasts coming through the door, but they're
all like 10, 15 years older. So, you know, how to
engage with a new generation of drinkers and
revelers is a question we're asking ourselves all
the time.
>> Susan Schwartz (35:58):
Well, I think you've answered my last question,
which was what do you see for the future? But
it's, I guess, engaging with the Gen Zs and
whatever is coming along the way, you know, and
how to bring them into this world that we love and
even interest them into the music that we love.
>> Roisin Stimson (36:16):
Yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (36:17):
Yes, yes, I think so. I mean, I read a report
recently that said that, you know, in the last
three or four years, you know, something like £86
billion has been wiped off the value of the big
five, you know, Pello, Ricard, Diageo, they are
noticing that they've got a challenge on their
hands as well, uh, in terms of engaging with the
(36:37):
new generations who, who look at experiences in a
slightly different way. I mean, I think, you know,
luckily there are still people out there who, at a
younger age who see what we do and it really
chimes with them and we're very lucky for that.
But I think certainly ways of connecting with
those people and getting them through the door and
getting them coming back is going to be a big
(36:57):
question that we ask ourselves in coming years.
>> Susan Schwartz (37:00):
Well, you've been doing stuff right for 15 years.
I don't doubt that for the next 15 years you will
also be doing it right. Plus you have some little
ones who are growing up and they can say, mom,
dad, uh, no, we don't like it that way. We want it
this way. So hopefully they can be sounding boards
as well.
>> Roisin Stimson (37:16):
Our 12 year old does try to give us business
advice.
>> Edmund Viall (37:18):
Yes, that's interesting. Although, to be honest,
we should probably be in the. He should at least
be able to make some good Bloody Mary by now.
>> Roisin Stimson (37:26):
Yeah, I know. We've really been quite sure.
>> Edmund Viall (37:28):
Uh, you know, they. Morning.
>> Susan Schwartz (37:32):
Wait, wait, wait. Was that what you were doing for
your dad?
>> Edmund Viall (37:36):
Actually, I did. I was, I was, I was called upon
to butter from an early age for sure. And they can
do that. They're quite good at that.
>> Roisin Stimson (37:45):
They are quite good, yeah.
>> Edmund Viall (37:46):
Um, but, yeah, cocktail making skills. No, that's
not something. It was actually, I think what
inspired me to think that there's a scene in Mad
Men where, where Don Draper's, uh, daughter brings
him a Bloody Mary in bed. Um, so I think, uh,
yeah, I think if he has any interest in entering
(38:07):
the family business, then it's probably quite a
good start.
>> Susan Schwartz (38:10):
Yes. When he's of legal age. Of course. Yes, of
course, of course. Well, thank you so much for
sitting down with me. I really love this chat. I
got to learn so much more about you and it was
great to have you both on the show. So thank you.
>> Roisin Stimson (38:24):
Thanks for the invitation. We're happy to. Yeah,
nice. Nice to reflect back on all the years and,
uh, everything we've learned. So thank you.
>> Susan Schwartz (38:33):
Absolutely. And hopefully I'll see you in one of
your bars and we can cheers to the next 15 years.
>> Roisin Stimson (38:38):
Yes.
>> Edmund Viall (38:38):
Here's to that.
>> Susan Schwartz (38:39):
Yeah, here's to that.
I so want to thank Rosie and Edmund for joining me
on the program. Of course. Our cocktail of the
week is a Nightjar classic. Our cocktail of the
week is the Toronto, created by Marion Beck for
(39:01):
their original menu. According to Rosie and
Edmond, it is possibly the only drink on the menu
that has barely changed in terms of spec since
they opened their menu version uses Woodford
Reserve bourbon. They use maple syrup infused with
coffee and pecan in a tribute to the drink's
Canadian moniker. The fanciful garnish is also a
(39:23):
functional one, a cloud of candy floss or cotton
candy smoked with orange blossom. It can either be
eaten side by side with a cocktail or added bit by
bit as an interesting sweetener to balance out the
bright, bitter Fernet Branca. So add the following
(39:44):
ingredients to a mixing 50 milliliters of Woodford
Reserve bourbon, 12.5 milliliters of Fernet Branca
and 7.5 mils of maple syrup infused with roasted
coffee beans and pecans. Add ice and then stir,
stir, stir when it's chilled, then strain it into
(40:08):
a rocks glass. If you have any cotton candy or
candy floss, then garnish it with that. You'll
find this recipe in all the cocktails of the week
at A Lush Life. Venice is so nice when you don't
(40:29):
have to work.
If you live for lush life, then.
Make sure you head out to the bars you love and
order a drink. And Lush Life is always and will be
forever. Produced by Evo, Terra and Simpler Media
Productions, which leads me to say the wise words
of Oscar Wilde all things in moderation, including
moderation, and always drink responsibly. Next
(40:54):
time we head to Northern Kentucky for the last
episode of 2025 and until then, bottom.
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