March 10, 2025 • 19 mins
Pop Palace Podcast: Emmy Hartman on Music, Vulnerability & Navigating the Industry
In this episode of Pop Palace, host Jack Blaylock sits down with rising singer-songwriter Emmy Hartman to discuss her transition from viral content creator to breakout musician. Emmy opens up about the emotional inspiration behind her debut EP, how a friendship breakup shaped her songwriting, and the challenges of being a woman and queer artist in the music industry. She also shares her creative process, the impact of growing up in Cleveland, Ohio, and what it’s like balancing authenticity with a growing online following.
Listen now for an insightful conversation on music, social media, and staying true to yourself—plus, Emmy reveals her plans for live performances and the message she hopes listeners take away from her songs.
🎧 Tune in now on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen!
🔑 Keywords: Emmy Hartman interview, Pop Palace podcast, TikTok music artists, friendship breakup songs, women in music, queer musicians, emerging pop artists, social media and music industry
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(04:01):
Hey!
Oh my god, can you hear me?
Yes, can you hear me?
Yeah, sorry, I didn't know how todownload an app and I was freaking out.
It's okay, sorry about that.
It's just, I know it's okay.
It's the easiest option becauseit'll record our audio separate
in case we talk over each other.
So yeah, thank you so much for being here.
(04:21):
I'm so excited for having me.
My name is Jack and thisis the pop palace podcast.
We celebrate iconic women and queerpeople in pop music and in pop culture.
And no, like you were the top of mylist of people I needed to talk to.
And I'm honored.
You said, yes, I was freaking out.
(04:43):
I told my boyfriend, I was like, OMG,you're not going to believe this.
I'm honored.
Oh yeah, so I'm so excited.
Um, something at Pop Palace we like to dois have our guests introduce themselves.
So if you could introduceyourself and then tell us
your earliest memory of music.
Okay.
My name is Emi.
I'm 25 years old.
(05:03):
I'm from Ohio, but I've lived inLos Angeles for like five years.
And I've always been very passionate aboutmusic, but it was definitely something
that I shied away from as a child, Iguess, because I was a very scared girl.
And I don't know why I thoughtlike, Oh my God, I can sing.
I'm so embarrassed.
Like I was so embarrassed about it.
Um, But like, I think a key thing forme when I realized like, oh my god,
(05:27):
I can sing and I have a good voice.
I was singing Monster by Rihanna on mycouch and my dad was filming me secretly
and I freaked out and I was like, Delia!
Delia!
And then I was like, okay.
And then I didn't really start likediving into it until I moved out to LA
and like didn't live with my parents.
Nothing against them.
Just, I guess, Felt more freeto start dabbling in music.
(05:51):
I love that monster.
That's like such an iconic moment No, Iliterally like i've always been a diva.
I don't know literally There's a videoof me like a home video on my birthday
party and i'm singing best of both worldsand i'm like That sums and that's right.
Yep So growing up in cleveland Howdid your environment then shape
(06:12):
your artistry now or did it haveany impact on your creativity?
I think A big part of why I wantedto do music is because I did feel so
connected to artists at concerts becauseliving in Ohio, there's not a lot to do.
So that was kind of my outlet.
And I don't know if I can call thehobby, but I did go to a lot of
(06:34):
concerts, but it always gave me afeeling that nothing else gave me and I.
Find it so inspiring.
And I always wanted to be ableto do that for other people.
So I think that's a big partof why I kind of took the step
to express myself in that way.
And then also I just love singingobviously, but the connection
to music in Ohio really is justconcerts and having that space.
(06:55):
Definitely.
I feel that I'm in Oklahomaand I feel that very much.
So you began making YouTubevideos at the age of 13.
What inspired you to start creatingcontent at such a young age?
I. I always had this thing in my head oflike, I don't know if it's that I want
to be seen, or I, like, want to be heard,or I want to, well, I guess it ties into
(07:19):
the wanting to be an outlet for people,because I can be overly positive, but I
think it can be beneficial at times, andI wanted to be that positive thing for
people, so at the time, that was somethingobtainable and easy to do, I guess.
Um, and it was just fun and sillyto do with my friends, and I'd
(07:40):
watch all, like, the other YouTubersand be like, I want to do that.
Like, obviously not end goal, butI've always just, like, I don't know
if I want to say I wanted to be inthe spotlight, or I wanted to just,
I don't know the exact wording on it.
I just always felt like I had friendswhen I was doing it, so anything that
I could do creatively, where I feelI'm connecting with people and I feel
like I have this group of people thatI consider friends to an extent, like,
(08:05):
it's always caught my eye and I'vealways wanted to just do anything.
In the realm of creative things thatconnect me to people definitely and
pouring out all your creativity forSharing it with the world takes a
lot of energy on yourself Do youhave any like self care practices
that you'd use to kind of make sureyou're not over exerting yourself?
(08:30):
It's okay if you don't i've neverthought about that or like I think a
favorite album or anything you do tojust like kind of Reset your creative
mind and kind of realign yourself.
That's a good question.
Um I think when I get in a creativeslump, I haven't really figured
(08:50):
out how to get out of it yet.
I just like cross my fingers and hopeand like I should probably be doing
like the oh just randomly draw orlike write a song but I kind of just
sit in the slump for a second becauseI think if you're in a slump just
Sometimes being it for a moment, butI guess if it exceeds like a certain
amount of time, let's figure it out.
But I haven't really had a long enoughslump where I'm like needing to find
(09:14):
Like, I don't know how to word that.
No, I don't know.
And sometimes a slump is likeneeded, even if you're like not
feeling like you're doing enough.
Sometimes you just need to work.
Yeah, sometimes a slump's good becauseI'm like doing things and I'm like that's
really good and then I get in my slump andI watch it and I'm like Maybe it wasn't.
Maybe we need to take astep back and reevaluate.
Yeah, I totally feel that.
(09:35):
So in September of 2023, releasedlead single from your debut EP.
Can you share more about thethemes and inspirations behind
the EP and the project itself?
Oh my God, my first EP.
Um, it's, I didn't go into itwith this intention, but like,
I was just writing a lot about afriendship breakup because it was.
(09:59):
Very fresh and happeningand on my mind so much.
So like a lot of songs thatI felt very passionate about
obviously were about that.
And then I was like, okay, like,I actually don't know a lot of,
well, I'm sure there's so many,but a lot of projects that are
revolving around friendshipbreakups versus romantic breakups.
And I think that it helped like heal mein a way and help me Through it, which,
(10:23):
you know, still not fully through it, butit did take a big weight off my chest to
just spill all my feelings about that.
And I think with the firstsingle, it was crying in my boots.
That song out of everything I hadmade up to that point was the song.
I was like, okay, this is thesound I'm going to start going for.
This is my vibe.
Like I actually feel like I found it.
And I think it's just been like oneupping myself from there, but yeah.
(10:46):
Friendship breakup EP.
There wasn't really a plan behind it.
I just.
Guess I pick the thing that I'mheavily focused on and if I write
a bunch about it, then that's whatit's about Yeah, definitely and
honestly, I think friendship breakupsare sometimes harder than like
relationship breakups Like, it's,they're still like, it never goes away.
(11:11):
It is, um, I wouldn'twish it upon anybody.
It's horrible.
It's awful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I had a really sad friendshipbreakup, and I still think
about it, and I'm like, Me too.
It's so devastating too, becauseit's, I don't know, such a different
connection versus a relationship.
Yeah, so would you say when you'recreating music is it more of an abstract
(11:34):
like process or is it pretty linearwhere you're like I have this idea
I'm gonna write it in this song andit's gonna sound this way or is it
just kind of come together naturally?
It kind of comes togethernaturally most of the time.
I Right from my notes app, like that'sjust the base point of everything.
So my notes app is full of either likeessays of a thought I'm having, like,
(11:55):
I'll just start spilling all my feelings.
Um, sometimes when I hear, like, acool quote on TV, or I hear someone say
something, I'll write it down and thenspan, like, my own feelings off of it.
Um, but it usually starts with justa sentence in my notes, and I'll span
from that and just, like, kind of pickout what I think would sound cool,
and then branch off of that with.
(12:15):
My own feelings.
So it's very like kindof going with no plan.
Yeah.
I love that though.
I feel like that's sometimes a littlebit more genuine, not that setting it up
and being linear can't be genuine, butyou know, it's just like what's happening
in the air and like taking littlepieces and it makes like a masterpiece.
I love it.
Thank you.
(12:36):
So.
Reflecting on your journey fromcontent creator in Cleveland to an
artist in Los Angeles, what are someof the most significant challenges
that you faced as like a womanand queer person in the industry?
I
think just like challenges overall.
Um, I got lucky with social media and Iwas posting, like, covers and stuff on
(13:01):
there and had a label reach out throughthat when I was young, so I had no
knowledge of what I was signing up foror doing, or I guess I didn't really
take the time to learn what everythingmeant, and just, like, how it would
affect me, so, I mean, that's still a bigchallenge I'm currently learning from.
(13:21):
and making my way through.
Um,
I don't know, like that's just like,I think just starting everything so
young and I, I definitely wasn't likethrown into it how a lot of other
people are, but just not giving orgiven the right tools to understand
kind of what I was getting into.
(13:43):
Yeah, definitely.
I am like in the music and likecreative world that there's not like
step by step processes for anything.
It's different for everyone.
So it could be really crazy.
Yeah, I definitely got a lot of helpon the creative side and like learning
how to be in a studio and how to writeand all that, but then the business
side of it, I'm still like currentlylike, oh, didn't know all of that.
(14:06):
That's probably important, butI'm grateful to have learned
a lot of things creatively.
So have you had any like pinch me momentsin the past few years that you're like,
I can't believe this is happening?
Yeah, yeah, I would say whenmy first single came out, like.
TikToker to music pipeline becauseI definitely was popping a little
(14:29):
more then and I knew it was goingto do good, but the amount that it
like blew up a lot because of hate.
But still the amount that it blew up.
I was just like, no way.
Like, go tell little me.
This is crazy.
That's been awesome.
Um, being like, recognized by some ofthe artists that I. I'm so inspired by
and look up to has been so like rewardingand like seeing them, not as a fan to
(14:59):
artists, but as like a artist artist thinghas been really, really, really cool.
And that's happening all thetime and it's so awesome.
I bet that's so amazing.
Yeah, but you do have such alarge following online and.
That does come with sometimes hate.
Is there, how do you deal withlike keeping some things personal
(15:23):
and then some things public?
I
like to make things public only ifI feel very passionate about it.
Like if I think someone isspewing like hateful things or
harmful things, then I will speak.
(15:43):
But if it's just like drama thatpeople want to know about or
whatever, I just keep my mouth shutbecause I don't know if there's
not passion behind what I'm saying.
I just don't bother to say it because ifthere is going to be hate and there is
going to be people fighting me, I'd ratherthem be fighting me over something that
I strongly am believing in and speakingon because you'll happily about it.
(16:06):
And I appreciate that from your TikToks.
I feel like, anytime you get up andyou make a video to speak, I'm like,
I'm checked in, I'm ready to listen.
I get so scared too, but I'm just like,I am so angry sometimes, because it's
like, people online, thank you, there'sso many people that are so young and
(16:27):
so vulnerable, and I think it's easyto stray away from thinking about what
you personally think about an opinionand just absorbing what you're seeing.
So that's when I do start feelinglike I should maybe say something, but
besides that, I'm staying out of it.
And like, coming from Oklahoma, likeit's nice to see the internet connects
us to other people, like I will feelalone and like hidden in my little
(16:50):
world in Oklahoma, but then I'llsee you speaking on something that I
feel, and it gives me that hope thatlike, oh yeah, we're all in the same
thing, we're just different places.
Yeah, I love that.
So, how has your sense of selfevolved since transitioning from
being content creator to musician?
I think I'm still trying to figure thatout a bit because I, just because it is
(17:16):
so typical to be like a TikToker tryingto make music, I've tried to like unattach
myself from that, but it is hard whenit's just like the typical thing everyone
thinks, so I am still working on that,but I think when it also comes down to
it, it's just like people that do doTikTok have other passions outside of it.
And that's my case too.
And it's like, I know I'm an artistand I know I'm doing music because I'm
(17:40):
passionate about music, but it is hardto cut the tie between like, am I, or
is it like social media and bubble?
I don't know.
It's a weird thing that I'm stillfiguring out if I'm being honest.
Yeah, definitely.
And there is like a vibe though.
You can feel like as an audience member,who is like actually passionate about
the music and then who's doing it.
(18:00):
To for like just because that's what'shappening and like it does come through
authentically at least to me that you'relike actually passionate about music
and it's not Thank you Oh I'm gonna dothis random project that other people
do Thank you I like psyched myself out abit too because it's so weird I fully in
my head I'm like I love this so much andit like makes me so happy and I feel so
good doing it but then I'm like Stupidtalker like, and I'm like, oh, to me, no.
(18:27):
But no, you're way more thanjust a stupid little talker.
, you're, thank you.
Thank you.
Is there a particular message orfeeling that you want your listeners
to take away from your music?
I know that's, I'm reallybig on, oh, so go ahead.
Sorry.
Oh, I was gonna say, I know that'skind of broad question, but Oh yeah.
(18:48):
Um, I think a big takeaway froma lot of stuff that I put out.
It's just vulnerability and feeling youremotions and not really holding it back.
Because I think for some reason,like, well, I do cry a lot.
Okay.
Online and a lot of people do whatever.
Um, but I think there's a lotof, um, shame nowadays when it
(19:10):
comes to heavily feeling emotions.
And I am a very emotional girl and Ilove to cry and I love to laugh and I
love angry and I just love to feel myemotions and I think being vulnerable
is so important and it like keepsus all in touch, so I guess just.
being your full vulnerable selfand feeling your emotions to the
extent that you need to feel them.
Yeah, I love it.
Thank you.
(19:31):
Do you have any plans to, um,do you like performing live?
Or are you more of a notperforming live type person?
I'm going to begin soon.
Just little things and wouldlove to work my way up.
But as of my current, like, catalogand my experience, I need to do some
(19:51):
smaller stuff before getting into bigstuff so I can really get it down.
I'm so excited, though.
Thank you.
Anytime you come near me, I'm gonna come.
Thank God!
Yeah, literally, most people go toDallas since Oklahoma's so random,
but catch me there, I'll be there.
I'll go to Oklahoma!
No, literally come toOklahoma, we'll have a party.
All the gays will come.
(20:12):
Please.
Um, so, some, like, little fun questions.
What is one thing that you wouldhave on your rider for your shows?
Oh my god, I've nevereven thought about this.
If you had, like, unlimited budget.
I would, like, ask for a case ofLaCroix, because I down LaCroix
(20:32):
like it is water in a desert.
I love LaCroix.
What flavor?
Like the lime, the grapefruitone, you know, I like anything
but the limoncello one.
Okay, that's so fair.
I hate when they're a little sweet.
I know they're the most like flavorlessdrinks, but I love just like my little
(20:53):
skittle drop of flavor in my La Croix.
What else?
I'm a big drink girl.
Like I love to have multiple liquids.
So, what?
Some sort of pop.
Probably a cherry Pepsi.
And a big, crisp water.
Period.
I'll have to sit and thinkabout the food side of that.
(21:13):
Yeah, definitely.
Um, what is your go to karaoke song?
If you're going to do a karaoke day?
Okay, if I'm in my own house and it'slike my karaoke time, I'm picking the
most devastating sad music like Funeralby Phoebe Bridgers, Liability by Lorde.
Like anything like heartwrenching, cry my eyes out.
But if I'm being silly at a bar, I love.
(21:37):
I don't know if I can say a bad word.
Oh, yeah, you can say whatever.
Fuck you by CeeLo Green.
That, like, I just love apassionate, silly song at a bar.
That, um, Oh my God,Cause I Love You by Lizzo.
I love doing that.
Anything I can yell.
I want to see that.
Next time you do it.
It's so fun.
We have to do bar karaoke in Oklahoma.
(21:58):
Oh my God.
No, literally, we can doit at the gay bar here.
Please.
Yes, oh my god, that would be so fun.
Everyone would be gagged.
Yeah.
Okay, what was the lastthing that you googled?
Oh my god, I'm on my phone.
Probably like if I have a disease.
Like, I'm always googling,like, What is this dot?
(22:19):
Am I gonna die?
Something like that.
Why do I feel like this?
Yeah.
Literally on my way to workyesterday, I was like, I feel like
I'm having a heart attack, but That'sliterally me, I'm like, Why does my
eye feel bigger on the right side?
Am I gonna die?
Like My left big toe feels weird today.
It's so scary.
(22:39):
That.
Okay, I have one last question.
So at Pop Palace, we love to askour guests to curate their own royal
court going off the palace theme.
So, who would you be?
Your, like, biggest icon would bein your throne, and then you could
pick, like, three other peoplethat you take inspiration from, or
just, like, really love in music.
(23:01):
Oh my god.
My biggest icon in my throne would be.
Probably Caroline Polachek.
And then, our three, I know Julia Fox onlyhas one song, but for artistic purposes,
I will have to place Julia Fox there.
Um, I know.
Give us more.
(23:21):
I love her.
Um, Lord, definitely Lord.
And dare I say Addison Rae.
Say it.
Say it.
Dare I say it.
Addison Rae.
Period.
Thank you so much.
Of course.
It was so great to meet you.
Um, I know like all the queersare going to love listening.
(23:44):
Um, it's just like I started this asa personal thing because Pop music
and women in pop music have likesaved my life and kept me going.
And I thought I would shareit with everybody else.
So I mean a lot to everybody and Ireally appreciate you being here.
I'm honored.
Thank you so much.
And then do you thinkwe could take a picture?
(24:04):
I could put it on the Instagram.
Yeah.
Okay.
Let me fix my hair.
I wore a beanie todayand it messed up my hair.
Valid.
I was like swooping myhair down before this.
It was sticking up.
I screwed up a little.
(24:26):
Yay.
Thank you so much.
Of course.
Thank you.
of your day.
It was lovely.
You too.
Nice to meet you.
Thank you.
Bye.
Hey!
Oh my god, can you hear me?
Yes, can you hear me?
Yeah, sorry, I didn't know how todownload an app and I was freaking out.
It's okay, sorry about that.
It's just, I know it's okay.
It's the easiest option becauseit'll record our audio separate
in case we talk over each other.
So yeah, thank you so much for being here.
(04:21):
I'm so excited for having me.
My name is Jack and thisis the pop palace podcast.
We celebrate iconic women and queerpeople in pop music and in pop culture.
And no, like you were the top of mylist of people I needed to talk to.
And I'm honored.
You said, yes, I was freaking out.
(04:43):
I told my boyfriend, I was like, OMG,you're not going to believe this.
I'm honored.
Oh yeah, so I'm so excited.
Um, something at Pop Palace we like to dois have our guests introduce themselves.
So if you could introduceyourself and then tell us
your earliest memory of music.
Okay.
My name is Emi.
I'm 25 years old.
(05:03):
I'm from Ohio, but I've lived inLos Angeles for like five years.
And I've always been very passionate aboutmusic, but it was definitely something
that I shied away from as a child, Iguess, because I was a very scared girl.
And I don't know why I thoughtlike, Oh my God, I can sing.
I'm so embarrassed.
Like I was so embarrassed about it.
Um, But like, I think a key thing forme when I realized like, oh my god,
(05:27):
I can sing and I have a good voice.
I was singing Monster by Rihanna on mycouch and my dad was filming me secretly
and I freaked out and I was like, Delia!
Delia!
And then I was like, okay.
And then I didn't really start likediving into it until I moved out to LA
and like didn't live with my parents.
Nothing against them.
Just, I guess, Felt more freeto start dabbling in music.
(05:51):
I love that monster.
That's like such an iconic moment No, Iliterally like i've always been a diva.
I don't know literally There's a videoof me like a home video on my birthday
party and i'm singing best of both worldsand i'm like That sums and that's right.
Yep So growing up in cleveland Howdid your environment then shape
(06:12):
your artistry now or did it haveany impact on your creativity?
I think A big part of why I wantedto do music is because I did feel so
connected to artists at concerts becauseliving in Ohio, there's not a lot to do.
So that was kind of my outlet.
And I don't know if I can call thehobby, but I did go to a lot of
(06:34):
concerts, but it always gave me afeeling that nothing else gave me and I.
Find it so inspiring.
And I always wanted to be ableto do that for other people.
So I think that's a big partof why I kind of took the step
to express myself in that way.
And then also I just love singingobviously, but the connection
to music in Ohio really is justconcerts and having that space.
(06:55):
Definitely.
I feel that I'm in Oklahomaand I feel that very much.
So you began making YouTubevideos at the age of 13.
What inspired you to start creatingcontent at such a young age?
I. I always had this thing in my head oflike, I don't know if it's that I want
to be seen, or I, like, want to be heard,or I want to, well, I guess it ties into
(07:19):
the wanting to be an outlet for people,because I can be overly positive, but I
think it can be beneficial at times, andI wanted to be that positive thing for
people, so at the time, that was somethingobtainable and easy to do, I guess.
Um, and it was just fun and sillyto do with my friends, and I'd
(07:40):
watch all, like, the other YouTubersand be like, I want to do that.
Like, obviously not end goal, butI've always just, like, I don't know
if I want to say I wanted to be inthe spotlight, or I wanted to just,
I don't know the exact wording on it.
I just always felt like I had friendswhen I was doing it, so anything that
I could do creatively, where I feelI'm connecting with people and I feel
like I have this group of people thatI consider friends to an extent, like,
(08:05):
it's always caught my eye and I'vealways wanted to just do anything.
In the realm of creative things thatconnect me to people definitely and
pouring out all your creativity forSharing it with the world takes a
lot of energy on yourself Do youhave any like self care practices
that you'd use to kind of make sureyou're not over exerting yourself?
(08:30):
It's okay if you don't i've neverthought about that or like I think a
favorite album or anything you do tojust like kind of Reset your creative
mind and kind of realign yourself.
That's a good question.
Um I think when I get in a creativeslump, I haven't really figured
(08:50):
out how to get out of it yet.
I just like cross my fingers and hopeand like I should probably be doing
like the oh just randomly draw orlike write a song but I kind of just
sit in the slump for a second becauseI think if you're in a slump just
Sometimes being it for a moment, butI guess if it exceeds like a certain
amount of time, let's figure it out.
But I haven't really had a long enoughslump where I'm like needing to find
(09:14):
Like, I don't know how to word that.
No, I don't know.
And sometimes a slump is likeneeded, even if you're like not
feeling like you're doing enough.
Sometimes you just need to work.
Yeah, sometimes a slump's good becauseI'm like doing things and I'm like that's
really good and then I get in my slump andI watch it and I'm like Maybe it wasn't.
Maybe we need to take astep back and reevaluate.
Yeah, I totally feel that.
(09:35):
So in September of 2023, releasedlead single from your debut EP.
Can you share more about thethemes and inspirations behind
the EP and the project itself?
Oh my God, my first EP.
Um, it's, I didn't go into itwith this intention, but like,
I was just writing a lot about afriendship breakup because it was.
(09:59):
Very fresh and happeningand on my mind so much.
So like a lot of songs thatI felt very passionate about
obviously were about that.
And then I was like, okay, like,I actually don't know a lot of,
well, I'm sure there's so many,but a lot of projects that are
revolving around friendshipbreakups versus romantic breakups.
And I think that it helped like heal mein a way and help me Through it, which,
(10:23):
you know, still not fully through it, butit did take a big weight off my chest to
just spill all my feelings about that.
And I think with the firstsingle, it was crying in my boots.
That song out of everything I hadmade up to that point was the song.
I was like, okay, this is thesound I'm going to start going for.
This is my vibe.
Like I actually feel like I found it.
And I think it's just been like oneupping myself from there, but yeah.
(10:46):
Friendship breakup EP.
There wasn't really a plan behind it.
I just.
Guess I pick the thing that I'mheavily focused on and if I write
a bunch about it, then that's whatit's about Yeah, definitely and
honestly, I think friendship breakupsare sometimes harder than like
relationship breakups Like, it's,they're still like, it never goes away.
(11:11):
It is, um, I wouldn'twish it upon anybody.
It's horrible.
It's awful.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I had a really sad friendshipbreakup, and I still think
about it, and I'm like, Me too.
It's so devastating too, becauseit's, I don't know, such a different
connection versus a relationship.
Yeah, so would you say when you'recreating music is it more of an abstract
(11:34):
like process or is it pretty linearwhere you're like I have this idea
I'm gonna write it in this song andit's gonna sound this way or is it
just kind of come together naturally?
It kind of comes togethernaturally most of the time.
I Right from my notes app, like that'sjust the base point of everything.
So my notes app is full of either likeessays of a thought I'm having, like,
(11:55):
I'll just start spilling all my feelings.
Um, sometimes when I hear, like, acool quote on TV, or I hear someone say
something, I'll write it down and thenspan, like, my own feelings off of it.
Um, but it usually starts with justa sentence in my notes, and I'll span
from that and just, like, kind of pickout what I think would sound cool,
and then branch off of that with.
(12:15):
My own feelings.
So it's very like kindof going with no plan.
Yeah.
I love that though.
I feel like that's sometimes a littlebit more genuine, not that setting it up
and being linear can't be genuine, butyou know, it's just like what's happening
in the air and like taking littlepieces and it makes like a masterpiece.
I love it.
Thank you.
(12:36):
So.
Reflecting on your journey fromcontent creator in Cleveland to an
artist in Los Angeles, what are someof the most significant challenges
that you faced as like a womanand queer person in the industry?
I
think just like challenges overall.
Um, I got lucky with social media and Iwas posting, like, covers and stuff on
(13:01):
there and had a label reach out throughthat when I was young, so I had no
knowledge of what I was signing up foror doing, or I guess I didn't really
take the time to learn what everythingmeant, and just, like, how it would
affect me, so, I mean, that's still a bigchallenge I'm currently learning from.
(13:21):
and making my way through.
Um,
I don't know, like that's just like,I think just starting everything so
young and I, I definitely wasn't likethrown into it how a lot of other
people are, but just not giving orgiven the right tools to understand
kind of what I was getting into.
(13:43):
Yeah, definitely.
I am like in the music and likecreative world that there's not like
step by step processes for anything.
It's different for everyone.
So it could be really crazy.
Yeah, I definitely got a lot of helpon the creative side and like learning
how to be in a studio and how to writeand all that, but then the business
side of it, I'm still like currentlylike, oh, didn't know all of that.
(14:06):
That's probably important, butI'm grateful to have learned
a lot of things creatively.
So have you had any like pinch me momentsin the past few years that you're like,
I can't believe this is happening?
Yeah, yeah, I would say whenmy first single came out, like.
TikToker to music pipeline becauseI definitely was popping a little
(14:29):
more then and I knew it was goingto do good, but the amount that it
like blew up a lot because of hate.
But still the amount that it blew up.
I was just like, no way.
Like, go tell little me.
This is crazy.
That's been awesome.
Um, being like, recognized by some ofthe artists that I. I'm so inspired by
and look up to has been so like rewardingand like seeing them, not as a fan to
(14:59):
artists, but as like a artist artist thinghas been really, really, really cool.
And that's happening all thetime and it's so awesome.
I bet that's so amazing.
Yeah, but you do have such alarge following online and.
That does come with sometimes hate.
Is there, how do you deal withlike keeping some things personal
(15:23):
and then some things public?
I
like to make things public only ifI feel very passionate about it.
Like if I think someone isspewing like hateful things or
harmful things, then I will speak.
(15:43):
But if it's just like drama thatpeople want to know about or
whatever, I just keep my mouth shutbecause I don't know if there's
not passion behind what I'm saying.
I just don't bother to say it because ifthere is going to be hate and there is
going to be people fighting me, I'd ratherthem be fighting me over something that
I strongly am believing in and speakingon because you'll happily about it.
(16:06):
And I appreciate that from your TikToks.
I feel like, anytime you get up andyou make a video to speak, I'm like,
I'm checked in, I'm ready to listen.
I get so scared too, but I'm just like,I am so angry sometimes, because it's
like, people online, thank you, there'sso many people that are so young and
(16:27):
so vulnerable, and I think it's easyto stray away from thinking about what
you personally think about an opinionand just absorbing what you're seeing.
So that's when I do start feelinglike I should maybe say something, but
besides that, I'm staying out of it.
And like, coming from Oklahoma, likeit's nice to see the internet connects
us to other people, like I will feelalone and like hidden in my little
(16:50):
world in Oklahoma, but then I'llsee you speaking on something that I
feel, and it gives me that hope thatlike, oh yeah, we're all in the same
thing, we're just different places.
Yeah, I love that.
So, how has your sense of selfevolved since transitioning from
being content creator to musician?
I think I'm still trying to figure thatout a bit because I, just because it is
(17:16):
so typical to be like a TikToker tryingto make music, I've tried to like unattach
myself from that, but it is hard whenit's just like the typical thing everyone
thinks, so I am still working on that,but I think when it also comes down to
it, it's just like people that do doTikTok have other passions outside of it.
And that's my case too.
And it's like, I know I'm an artistand I know I'm doing music because I'm
(17:40):
passionate about music, but it is hardto cut the tie between like, am I, or
is it like social media and bubble?
I don't know.
It's a weird thing that I'm stillfiguring out if I'm being honest.
Yeah, definitely.
And there is like a vibe though.
You can feel like as an audience member,who is like actually passionate about
the music and then who's doing it.
(18:00):
To for like just because that's what'shappening and like it does come through
authentically at least to me that you'relike actually passionate about music
and it's not Thank you Oh I'm gonna dothis random project that other people
do Thank you I like psyched myself out abit too because it's so weird I fully in
my head I'm like I love this so much andit like makes me so happy and I feel so
good doing it but then I'm like Stupidtalker like, and I'm like, oh, to me, no.
(18:27):
But no, you're way more thanjust a stupid little talker.
, you're, thank you.
Thank you.
Is there a particular message orfeeling that you want your listeners
to take away from your music?
I know that's, I'm reallybig on, oh, so go ahead.
Sorry.
Oh, I was gonna say, I know that'skind of broad question, but Oh yeah.
(18:48):
Um, I think a big takeaway froma lot of stuff that I put out.
It's just vulnerability and feeling youremotions and not really holding it back.
Because I think for some reason,like, well, I do cry a lot.
Okay.
Online and a lot of people do whatever.
Um, but I think there's a lotof, um, shame nowadays when it
(19:10):
comes to heavily feeling emotions.
And I am a very emotional girl and Ilove to cry and I love to laugh and I
love angry and I just love to feel myemotions and I think being vulnerable
is so important and it like keepsus all in touch, so I guess just.
being your full vulnerable selfand feeling your emotions to the
extent that you need to feel them.
Yeah, I love it.
Thank you.
(19:31):
Do you have any plans to, um,do you like performing live?
Or are you more of a notperforming live type person?
I'm going to begin soon.
Just little things and wouldlove to work my way up.
But as of my current, like, catalogand my experience, I need to do some
(19:51):
smaller stuff before getting into bigstuff so I can really get it down.
I'm so excited, though.
Thank you.
Anytime you come near me, I'm gonna come.
Thank God!
Yeah, literally, most people go toDallas since Oklahoma's so random,
but catch me there, I'll be there.
I'll go to Oklahoma!
No, literally come toOklahoma, we'll have a party.
All the gays will come.
(20:12):
Please.
Um, so, some, like, little fun questions.
What is one thing that you wouldhave on your rider for your shows?
Oh my god, I've nevereven thought about this.
If you had, like, unlimited budget.
I would, like, ask for a case ofLaCroix, because I down LaCroix
(20:32):
like it is water in a desert.
I love LaCroix.
What flavor?
Like the lime, the grapefruitone, you know, I like anything
but the limoncello one.
Okay, that's so fair.
I hate when they're a little sweet.
I know they're the most like flavorlessdrinks, but I love just like my little
(20:53):
skittle drop of flavor in my La Croix.
What else?
I'm a big drink girl.
Like I love to have multiple liquids.
So, what?
Some sort of pop.
Probably a cherry Pepsi.
And a big, crisp water.
Period.
I'll have to sit and thinkabout the food side of that.
(21:13):
Yeah, definitely.
Um, what is your go to karaoke song?
If you're going to do a karaoke day?
Okay, if I'm in my own house and it'slike my karaoke time, I'm picking the
most devastating sad music like Funeralby Phoebe Bridgers, Liability by Lorde.
Like anything like heartwrenching, cry my eyes out.
But if I'm being silly at a bar, I love.
(21:37):
I don't know if I can say a bad word.
Oh, yeah, you can say whatever.
Fuck you by CeeLo Green.
That, like, I just love apassionate, silly song at a bar.
That, um, Oh my God,Cause I Love You by Lizzo.
I love doing that.
Anything I can yell.
I want to see that.
Next time you do it.
It's so fun.
We have to do bar karaoke in Oklahoma.
(21:58):
Oh my God.
No, literally, we can doit at the gay bar here.
Please.
Yes, oh my god, that would be so fun.
Everyone would be gagged.
Yeah.
Okay, what was the lastthing that you googled?
Oh my god, I'm on my phone.
Probably like if I have a disease.
Like, I'm always googling,like, What is this dot?
(22:19):
Am I gonna die?
Something like that.
Why do I feel like this?
Yeah.
Literally on my way to workyesterday, I was like, I feel like
I'm having a heart attack, but That'sliterally me, I'm like, Why does my
eye feel bigger on the right side?
Am I gonna die?
Like My left big toe feels weird today.
It's so scary.
(22:39):
That.
Okay, I have one last question.
So at Pop Palace, we love to askour guests to curate their own royal
court going off the palace theme.
So, who would you be?
Your, like, biggest icon would bein your throne, and then you could
pick, like, three other peoplethat you take inspiration from, or
just, like, really love in music.
(23:01):
Oh my god.
My biggest icon in my throne would be.
Probably Caroline Polachek.
And then, our three, I know Julia Fox onlyhas one song, but for artistic purposes,
I will have to place Julia Fox there.
Um, I know.
Give us more.
(23:21):
I love her.
Um, Lord, definitely Lord.
And dare I say Addison Rae.
Say it.
Say it.
Dare I say it.
Addison Rae.
Period.
Thank you so much.
Of course.
It was so great to meet you.
Um, I know like all the queersare going to love listening.
(23:44):
Um, it's just like I started this asa personal thing because Pop music
and women in pop music have likesaved my life and kept me going.
And I thought I would shareit with everybody else.
So I mean a lot to everybody and Ireally appreciate you being here.
I'm honored.
Thank you so much.
And then do you thinkwe could take a picture?
(24:04):
I could put it on the Instagram.
Yeah.
Okay.
Let me fix my hair.
I wore a beanie todayand it messed up my hair.
Valid.
I was like swooping myhair down before this.
It was sticking up.
I screwed up a little.
(24:26):
Yay.
Thank you so much.
Of course.
Thank you.
of your day.
It was lovely.
You too.
Nice to meet you.
Thank you.
Bye.
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