February 3, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode of Pop Palace, host Jack Blaylock interviews Rare DM, the New York City-based electronic artist known for her captivating blend of dark aesthetics and dance-pop influences. Rare DM, whose real name is Erin Hoagg, shares her musical journey, starting with playing drums at age 11 inspired by her drummer father, transitioning from jazz and marching bands to synthesizers, and ultimately dropping out of FIT to pursue a solo music career. Raised in Traverse City, Michigan, Erin’s sound reflects her love for bloghouse, electroclash, and post-punk, which she describes as dissonant, ethereal, and machine-driven. She discusses her creative process, from self-styled zero-budget music videos, like her upcoming release "The Ring," to her meticulous approach to editing and fashion as a core part of her artistic identity. With themes of connection, intimacy, and ambition driving her music, Rare DM reveals how her personal experiences shape her art while acknowledging the challenges of navigating the music industry as a femme artist. This candid and inspiring conversation celebrates queer and femme voices in pop music while highlighting the resourcefulness and authenticity behind Rare DM’s artistry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Awesome.
Well, welcome to Pop Palace.
My name is Jack and here at Pop Palace,we celebrate iconic women and queer people
in pop culture and in the pop space.
So we're so excited to have you on.
Um, everybody, this is Rare DM.
And could you just tell us alittle bit about yourself and how
(00:20):
you began your journey in music?
Um, hi, I'm Rare DM.
Thanks for having me, Jack.
Um, I am a New York Citybased electronic artist.
I'm a solo musician and I first got intomusic because my, my dad played drums.
And so I started playing drums,I guess, to be like my dad or
something when I was like 11.
(00:42):
So then I did the whole, you know,be in jazz band and marching band
and somewhere along those lines.
Um, the percussion lessons thattaught me mallet percussion led me
to being able to play synthesizers.
So it's kind of a natural thingfrom there, but I went to FIT for
fashion design and then I, in NewYork, that's how I got to New York.
(01:03):
And then I dropped out to play drums ina band or two and then dropped out of
those to pursue my music career solo.
So that's kind of my origin story.
And before you were in New York,um, where were you growing up?
Uh, Traverse City, Michigan.
I was born in Baltimore cause my parents,um, met in art school and they went to
(01:23):
grad school there, but, um, at Micah,but yeah, I, I was in Traverse City.
Um, uh, from like four years old.
Awesome.
So that's hometown.
Yeah.
Your sound is such a captivating blendof dark aesthetics and dance pop.
How did you arrive on this fusion oris it something that like naturally
(01:44):
just came together whenever you'recreating music or do you like consciously
think this is the vibe I want toset out or is it just come together?
Um, I think that I've always been, uh,the, the people calling me dance pop
or dark wave, et cetera, is kind oflike, um, those are the words that just
Got used most often, so I didn't likeset out to necessarily be described
(02:09):
a certain way, but, um, I'm attractedto like dusty vibraphone synthesizers
and like shimmering arpeggiators,you know, and, uh, basically I just
really love dissonance and, um, like.
My influences are mostly bloghouseand electroclash and post punk, so
(02:31):
that's just kind of naturally whatI have a proclivity to, I would say.
Yeah.
If you could, um, create, like,three words to describe your
sound, what would you pick?
Um, okay.
Let's go with, uh,
(02:52):
dissonant, ethereal, Um, machine driven.
I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
Um, so you have a new musicvideo coming out February 8th.
Yeah.
Oh, no, February 6th.
Sorry.
February 6th.
My bad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, no, no.
February 6th.
Um, I'm very excited.
(03:14):
How do you prepare for a music video?
Is it something that you createthe music beforehand and then
the visuals come to mind?
Or did you have, like, an idea of a videoyou wanted and you're just going with it?
Thinking of the music to come for it.
So the particular release that I havecoming up, which is called the ring, I
had a completely different music videoin my head from when I created the song.
(03:37):
It is always, um, song first, unlessit's like, uh, a longstanding idea,
like maybe someday I would want to doa music video, you know, while I'm,
uh, Like, like, I'm not gonna, I'm notgonna do this, but like, hypothetically
speaking, like, maybe I've alwayswanted to do a skydiving video.
(04:00):
Then maybe someday I'll be like, cool,this is the song for the skydiving video.
But generally speaking,that's not how it goes.
Usually, it's like, a video willhave some particular, um, Like the
song will make me think of particularways I would want to do a video.
And then what type of video you haveentirely depends on your budget.
(04:21):
So like this video specifically, I had ahuge dream for and an entire treatment.
And I, um, even tried tolike pitch to investors.
I tried to find somebody withmoney to bankroll my music video.
I love it.
And that did not happen.
Um, so the music video that would havehappened was going to be something
(04:45):
that was really transitional basedand like heavy on the needing some VFX
that I don't know how to do myself.
Cause like the song, the ring isslightly influenced by like, like
lyrically, like boxing rings.
And, like, the movie, The Ring,and so I wanted to jump into a
(05:08):
well and land in a boxing ring.
And then I wanted to jump into aboxing ring and splash into a well.
So, that was my high budget idea.
So if anybody really wealthy listensto this podcast and wants to make that
version of the video, Still wanna do it.
(05:29):
Yeah.
Everyone listening will make it happen.
amazing.
Um, but, so this video insteadwas like actually kind of
a going home for Christmas.
Mm-hmm . And having a nice VHS camerathat I've had for quite a few years now.
And, um.
(05:49):
Basically, with Skater Hits Me Hard,or the video that came out last, most
recently, which was back in, like,November, I edited that video, and that's
the first time that I have actually gotteninto video editing since, like, when I
was, like, 13, and fucking around with,like, Apple, um, computer apps and stuff.
But basically, uh, I got a lotbetter, and then I was like, okay,
(06:14):
I'm going home for Christmas.
I have access to my dad's cool car andmy Uncle Brian's property, which is
like a pretty big space that wouldn'thave any streetlights or other houses.
It looks spooky as fuck.
Um, and I'll send, I'll send youthe video after this, but basically
it's, uh, Um, using what I got, selfstyled, did my own makeup, um, Calvin,
(06:39):
uh, Stark filmed it, and basicallywe did a, uh, a zero budget video.
So the video is like 35 hours of meediting, and like, it was shot over
Um, two days and like four hours totalof, of messing around and, um, I had
(07:01):
pneumonia that I was recovering from,I was on antibiotics, I got Calvin sick
too, so he was like starting to get sick,like during filming this, and he was
like, Let's not make this a long night.
And then, like, I got my mom to drive thecar, and it's this, um, Vanagon 1991 Carat
(07:22):
that, uh, I drove in high school, causemy dad's a car guy, and I, um, I even,
like, when I was in high school, got aniPod adapter installed into the radio.
And paid for a new sound system,including like a subwoofer.
And I was making like 7.
25 an hour at that time.
So I spent like almost a grand as ahigh schooler pimping out that van.
(07:45):
That's so sick.
Um, so it was really fun to, itactually hasn't been working for
like, I want to say 10 years.
And then he, my dad fixedit up like this year.
So I was like, oh, I can finallyuse the van for the video.
So anyways, that's, it's kind ofthe, the, the co star of the video
is the car, which you will see.
Um, and, uh, yeah, so, sorry, what?
(08:08):
I was just gonna say, can you seeyour mom driving the car in the video?
No, I actually, my mom, Igive her props for this too.
At one point I was like, mom, can youlike crouch down so we can't see you?
And um, there was a differenttime that we were doing this scene
and she didn't need to be asked.
Like, we were improvising and walkingback up to the car, and my mom hid and
(08:30):
didn't ruin the shot without, like,you know, I was like, there we go.
she was doing.
Yeah, she did.
And it was really fun, too, becauseoccasionally, like, it was like,
my Uncle Brian has a greenhouse,and my mom was like, oh, you
should film in his greenhouse.
And I, and then we were like, oh, andshe's like, I can just pull up the car so
that the car shines into the greenhouse.
(08:52):
So the greenhouse was lit byso my mom was a good sport.
That's awesome.
Yeah, it was really fun.
And like, obviously we were alsoreally unsafe because like, you know,
you're probably not supposed to shine areally bright light to cars behind you.
So like, while while we were drivingto my Uncle Brian's house, we're like
Taking the take because why wouldn't youyeah, but the camera is just flashing
(09:15):
whoever's behind us So it was reallyfun, I don't know if that I I totally
lost the question But anyways, thatwas how we do a zero budget music.
Yeah, and I'm veryexcited Excited about it.
It looks really good.
I can't wait to see.
I'm so excited.
Mm-hmm . Oh, and uh, the other thingthat's really fun about it is I actually
just finished uploading it right beforethis phone call, but I made an additional
(09:39):
video as just a lyric video and thelyric video was because we did, um.
Some additional footage in like the onlygay bar in Traverse City, Michigan So
they have like a disco ball and likea mirror and like this checkered floor
and it just looks like something thatwould be in like Twin Peaks or something
(09:59):
and So I Tried to originally it wasgonna be a combo like this spooky video
Combined with the disco footage and thenI was like I got so much disco footage.
I could just make an entire second videoAnd make this one just the lyric video.
So there's like the pop sidethat happens for the people
that want the less spooky video.
(10:20):
And that's the disco one.
I can't wait for both.
I love a little spooky moment,but I also love disco and
like a little pop moment too.
Absolutely.
It was so fun.
Um, growing up with your parentsalso being artists, did that
influence your art at all?
Like, do you ever find yourself beinglike, Oh, maybe that's something that
I gained from my mom, or maybe that'ssomething that, like, I got from my dad?
(10:45):
Um, absolutely.
I would say mostly that's visual, visual.
So they're both, um, Yeah,they're both visual artists.
My dad does sculpture and workson paper and my mom is, uh, mostly
just works on paper and thenshe's an art teacher as well.
My dad always did, like, carpentryand, like, cabinet making to
make a living outside of art.
(11:05):
But, um, one big influence isprobably them being pretty bad with
money and poor, so resourcefulness.
It's something I learned from my parents,but the main thing is having good taste,
like not to be a snot, but they justhave the best taste in furniture and
trinkets and colors of the floor and thecolor tile you pick out and the wall.
(11:29):
So basically I learned how tobe picky and look after quality.
And, um, yeah, I don't know.
That's thank God for my parents taste.
My parents have excellent taste.
So.
Yeah, it's good to be picky too.
I think some people look down onthat, but it's good to know what
you like and what is best for you.
(11:49):
Like what your art means and Iknow that it makes me difficult
to work with in certain waysJust because I'll be like sorry.
Can you read?
Can you read you that?
The pink is slightly too pinklike let's make the pink go
slightly more reddish hue.
Oh, no now that's too redLet's go, you know what I mean?
Like, I, the micromanaging ness, I'm like,thank God I just learned how to edit.
(12:14):
Because I have gone into, like,these, these two videos coming
up are both 60 frames per second.
And I will go and do the slider backand forth and back and forth until I
got the exact fucking frame I want.
I'll be like, nope, the light shines onmy face in a place that I don't like.
One frame.
Too late.
Imagine if I had to tell somebody that.
(12:35):
The Ring music video had 182 cuts in it.
OMG.
So I would have drivensomeone fucking crazy.
But then it makes itjust how you wanted it.
Exactly.
It's literally like basically no notes.
I love that.
Yeah, it was really fun.
Do you incorporate yourfashion into your art world?
(12:59):
Vice versa.
Does that like coincide within your music?
It's a huge part of it because, um, that'sactually like a main reason why I dropped
out of fashion design school is becauseI kind of realized that I would never
be happy with the fact that it didn't.
Um, satisfy my like stage, uh,attention, um, aspect of me, like, like
(13:25):
music involves fashion, but fashiondoesn't necessarily involve music.
Like it should, but basicallylike, I wouldn't be happy
working for Calvin Klein.
I, I would be happy being CalvinKlein, but I respect that as being
its entire own craft and music is mycraft because I can be Calvin Klein
(13:46):
and make my creative, visual, aestheticfashion decisions as my person, you
know, I totally relate to that so much.
That's kind of like, I'm in asimilar spot, different worlds,
but I'm at a music school.
I don't, I don't have any music.
Oh, cool.
But I was like, I don't want tojust, um, I don't know, like, I love
(14:07):
working with artists, but I wantedto create a platform where I could,
um, do something with myself too.
And so that's why I created a podcast.
Oh, that's awesome.
I wanted to be an artist aswell, but I'm, I'm not singing
or anything like that, but yeah.
There's all sorts of differentart, and part of being an
artist is being a curator.
So you are curating your podcast tohave all the artists that you want.
(14:28):
Definitely, and I'm like, if I can'tmake the music, then I can talk to
the people that are making the musicI like, and then share their stories.
Cause we don't, also we don't see enoughqueer people or femme people in the music
space that are being Not hated on or not.
Oh, yeah, torn down.
It was a huge.
It's less of an issue now.
(14:48):
Thank goodness, but I used tohave a lot of trouble with people,
um, asking me who makes my music.
Yeah, because like, you know, beingfemme and, um, like, I just would be like
somebody be like, Oh, are you the VJ?
I'm like, No.
Like they're like, ohwho's playing your tracks?
(15:08):
And I'm like, what do you mean?
Who's playing my tracks?
I have an octotrack in front of me.
Like do you think they're miming the gear?
Like what do you mean?
It's miming.
You know?
Exactly.
So people just like assume that youdon't make shit if you're female or
femme or I'm sure it happens and Foranybody who's like queer as well.
(15:29):
It's just discredited all the time.
Yeah Definitely.
Um, your songs explore themesof connection and intimacy.
How do your personal experienceslike narrate, narrate your music?
Or do you use like some nonpersonal experiences, like
fictional experiences to?
Create music as well.
Um, I think that generallyspeaking, my music comes direct
(15:53):
from my personal experiences ordreams and ambitions, you know?
So it's either, either stuff that's like.
Stuff I want to happen or likeimagine or dream or it's um, like,
you know, it could be a bad dreamYou could talk about a bad dream.
Yeah, but it's like it's generallyspeaking direct from Something that
(16:16):
I've experienced myself or that I'mthinking of like with the song hotel
jacuzzi Which like that song didn'treally do very well I don't know why I
didn't see the light of day cuz I backit up, but basically That one, um, you
know, like talks about wanting to havea luxurious life with somebody where you
fly all around the world and stay in, youknow, fancy hotels with nice jacuzzis.
(16:43):
I, I haven't lived that yet, you know, ofcourse I'm trying to be a little bit more
jet set and I'm a little more luxurious.
Um, yeah, but, uh, so the, the songthat's about to come out, which is called
the ring is, um, actually my first nonromantic song that I've ever released.
So all of my other songs havesomething to do with romance, even
(17:05):
if that's like imaginary romance.
Whereas this one is my first songfrom experience about, um, You
know, more, uh, miscommunicationsbetween, um, non romantic people.
I'm so excited, I can't wait.
Yeah!
Um, but being so vulnerable can beexhausting and it can take a toll.
Are there any ways that you, um, like,recoup or kind of practice, like,
(17:29):
any self care to keep you from not,like, just losing all of your energy
from expressing yourself so much?
Um, I would say that, uh, music can bekind of a release of the bad feelings
if you're exhausted about somethingthat's making you anxious, you know,
romantically or socially, although it'salso something that I could be kind of
(17:55):
in a decent mood and then trying to writea song and then like feel the life being
sucked out of me because like the thingI'm thinking about is bowing me out and
I'm like, Oh God, I can't not in themood right now, like either that or it
makes you write something really goodbecause you're like really in your feels.
(18:15):
Um, but as for recharging, I would saythe main number one thing, other than
like going for a bike ride, which Iam, that's something I do a lot and
I love and it's part of my lifestyleis, you know, um, biking and exercise
would be, uh, a long, very hot shower.
Like, I have heat and hot watercovered at the place I live, thank God.
(18:40):
And I will, I don't know if I shouldtalk about water waste, like there's
like billionaires and stuff that arelike doing horrible things, so I think
it's okay that I take a 45 minuteshower, but I will just, I will do the
everything shower, I'll do like threedifferent face treatments and a hair
mask, like anytime I want, and I love it.
(19:00):
I totally relate to that.
I got a job at Lush so I could getthe discount for my shower stuff.
Oh my god, you still have a job at Lush?
Yeah.
Wait, I want the hair stuff.
What's the white gloss?
Like, it's like the leave in conditioner.
Is it the super milk?
I want it.
I bought some yesterday.
(19:23):
It's actually so good for your hair.
How's that employee discount?
It's so good.
Are you going to be on tour or doingany performances and upcoming soon?
Yeah, so I think like that's whywhen you originally said the 8th,
I think we had that, I had thatdate as the original release date
before it got moved to the 6th.
I'm pretty sure when I wasoriginally talking to you, but.
(19:43):
That's partly because Ihave a festival on the 9th.
Okay.
So, and then it was like, oh,okay, wait, the sooner the better,
because then hopefully peoplewill know the lyrics to the song.
Yeah.
But, um, so I'm playing Grazone Festival,I think I just said it correctly,
but that's in, um, the Netherlands.
And, like, Geneva Jacuzzi and Trust areplaying, a bunch of really cool bands.
It's like, I think, Three orfour day festival, I believe.
(20:07):
And it's like a lot oflegends are playing.
Um, and then immediately followingthat I'm going to play Berlin, um,
and, uh, uh, Bordeaux and Marseille.
I'm hoping I'm saying all of thosecorrectly, but those are, I'm, I'm joining
Zeno and Oaklander again on tour justfor a couple dates, but I really love
(20:28):
them and I had so much fun last time.
So that's going to be cool.
Um, and.
Then I think I have some East Coastdates after I return from Europe.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I need to make it to one of your shows.
You're based in Chicago, right?
I'm actually in Oklahoma city.
Oh, cool.
Okay.
Well, hopefully soon.
(20:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I travel a lot.
Um, I, during the summer, I work.
For like a festival network.
So, Oh, really?
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah.
So I'm awesome.
Work.
I need to get me up if you're in New York.
Yeah, definitely.
And then I have one last question.
So at pop palace, we love to askour guests to create their own like
(21:09):
Royal court of, um, their favoritetop three musical influences.
So who would sit on your throne?
Oh, can they be living or dead?
Yeah.
Anybody.
Okay.
Let's see.
Um, Royal Court.
Uh
(21:29):
Let's put, um, sorry, uh, hmm, okay, let'sput Billie Holiday on there, and then,
um, uh, um, okay, sorry, this is a, I'mtaking this question extremely seriously.
I love it.
(21:49):
Um,
uh, Schwafelgalb.
Those were like myfavorite German producers.
I know that's like two people,they're a band, but like, okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Um, I would just love to like askthem some gear questions, you know?
Um, and then, um, let's put, uh,I'm trying to like round it out.
(22:17):
So I have a singer, I have a, I havea, some really good hardware producers.
Um, let's make a, um,
I want to, I'll, I'll put, um,the, the Julian Casablanca's
on there just cause I, oh yeah.
Okay.
(22:37):
That's, that's like tough.
Julian Casablanca's or the, or PaulBanks just to have like one of my
two, like, cause like Interpol and theStrokes, like are really important to
my musical, like origins, you know.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Okay.
There we go.
Well, thank you so much formaking the time to meet with me.
(22:58):
I really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me, Jack.
It was a lot of fun.
Awesome.
Well, welcome to Pop Palace.
My name is Jack and here at Pop Palace,we celebrate iconic women and queer people
in pop culture and in the pop space.
So we're so excited to have you on.
Um, everybody, this is Rare DM.
And could you just tell us alittle bit about yourself and how
(00:20):
you began your journey in music?
Um, hi, I'm Rare DM.
Thanks for having me, Jack.
Um, I am a New York Citybased electronic artist.
I'm a solo musician and I first got intomusic because my, my dad played drums.
And so I started playing drums,I guess, to be like my dad or
something when I was like 11.
(00:42):
So then I did the whole, you know,be in jazz band and marching band
and somewhere along those lines.
Um, the percussion lessons thattaught me mallet percussion led me
to being able to play synthesizers.
So it's kind of a natural thingfrom there, but I went to FIT for
fashion design and then I, in NewYork, that's how I got to New York.
(01:03):
And then I dropped out to play drums ina band or two and then dropped out of
those to pursue my music career solo.
So that's kind of my origin story.
And before you were in New York,um, where were you growing up?
Uh, Traverse City, Michigan.
I was born in Baltimore cause my parents,um, met in art school and they went to
(01:23):
grad school there, but, um, at Micah,but yeah, I, I was in Traverse City.
Um, uh, from like four years old.
Awesome.
So that's hometown.
Yeah.
Your sound is such a captivating blendof dark aesthetics and dance pop.
How did you arrive on this fusion oris it something that like naturally
(01:44):
just came together whenever you'recreating music or do you like consciously
think this is the vibe I want toset out or is it just come together?
Um, I think that I've always been, uh,the, the people calling me dance pop
or dark wave, et cetera, is kind oflike, um, those are the words that just
Got used most often, so I didn't likeset out to necessarily be described
(02:09):
a certain way, but, um, I'm attractedto like dusty vibraphone synthesizers
and like shimmering arpeggiators,you know, and, uh, basically I just
really love dissonance and, um, like.
My influences are mostly bloghouseand electroclash and post punk, so
(02:31):
that's just kind of naturally whatI have a proclivity to, I would say.
Yeah.
If you could, um, create, like,three words to describe your
sound, what would you pick?
Um, okay.
Let's go with, uh,
(02:52):
dissonant, ethereal, Um, machine driven.
I love it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, cool.
Um, so you have a new musicvideo coming out February 8th.
Yeah.
Oh, no, February 6th.
Sorry.
February 6th.
My bad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, no, no.
February 6th.
Um, I'm very excited.
(03:14):
How do you prepare for a music video?
Is it something that you createthe music beforehand and then
the visuals come to mind?
Or did you have, like, an idea of a videoyou wanted and you're just going with it?
Thinking of the music to come for it.
So the particular release that I havecoming up, which is called the ring, I
had a completely different music videoin my head from when I created the song.
(03:37):
It is always, um, song first, unlessit's like, uh, a longstanding idea,
like maybe someday I would want to doa music video, you know, while I'm,
uh, Like, like, I'm not gonna, I'm notgonna do this, but like, hypothetically
speaking, like, maybe I've alwayswanted to do a skydiving video.
(04:00):
Then maybe someday I'll be like, cool,this is the song for the skydiving video.
But generally speaking,that's not how it goes.
Usually, it's like, a video willhave some particular, um, Like the
song will make me think of particularways I would want to do a video.
And then what type of video you haveentirely depends on your budget.
(04:21):
So like this video specifically, I had ahuge dream for and an entire treatment.
And I, um, even tried tolike pitch to investors.
I tried to find somebody withmoney to bankroll my music video.
I love it.
And that did not happen.
Um, so the music video that would havehappened was going to be something
(04:45):
that was really transitional basedand like heavy on the needing some VFX
that I don't know how to do myself.
Cause like the song, the ring isslightly influenced by like, like
lyrically, like boxing rings.
And, like, the movie, The Ring,and so I wanted to jump into a
(05:08):
well and land in a boxing ring.
And then I wanted to jump into aboxing ring and splash into a well.
So, that was my high budget idea.
So if anybody really wealthy listensto this podcast and wants to make that
version of the video, Still wanna do it.
(05:29):
Yeah.
Everyone listening will make it happen.
amazing.
Um, but, so this video insteadwas like actually kind of
a going home for Christmas.
Mm-hmm . And having a nice VHS camerathat I've had for quite a few years now.
And, um.
(05:49):
Basically, with Skater Hits Me Hard,or the video that came out last, most
recently, which was back in, like,November, I edited that video, and that's
the first time that I have actually gotteninto video editing since, like, when I
was, like, 13, and fucking around with,like, Apple, um, computer apps and stuff.
But basically, uh, I got a lotbetter, and then I was like, okay,
(06:14):
I'm going home for Christmas.
I have access to my dad's cool car andmy Uncle Brian's property, which is
like a pretty big space that wouldn'thave any streetlights or other houses.
It looks spooky as fuck.
Um, and I'll send, I'll send youthe video after this, but basically
it's, uh, Um, using what I got, selfstyled, did my own makeup, um, Calvin,
(06:39):
uh, Stark filmed it, and basicallywe did a, uh, a zero budget video.
So the video is like 35 hours of meediting, and like, it was shot over
Um, two days and like four hours totalof, of messing around and, um, I had
(07:01):
pneumonia that I was recovering from,I was on antibiotics, I got Calvin sick
too, so he was like starting to get sick,like during filming this, and he was
like, Let's not make this a long night.
And then, like, I got my mom to drive thecar, and it's this, um, Vanagon 1991 Carat
(07:22):
that, uh, I drove in high school, causemy dad's a car guy, and I, um, I even,
like, when I was in high school, got aniPod adapter installed into the radio.
And paid for a new sound system,including like a subwoofer.
And I was making like 7.
25 an hour at that time.
So I spent like almost a grand as ahigh schooler pimping out that van.
(07:45):
That's so sick.
Um, so it was really fun to, itactually hasn't been working for
like, I want to say 10 years.
And then he, my dad fixedit up like this year.
So I was like, oh, I can finallyuse the van for the video.
So anyways, that's, it's kind ofthe, the, the co star of the video
is the car, which you will see.
Um, and, uh, yeah, so, sorry, what?
(08:08):
I was just gonna say, can you seeyour mom driving the car in the video?
No, I actually, my mom, Igive her props for this too.
At one point I was like, mom, can youlike crouch down so we can't see you?
And um, there was a differenttime that we were doing this scene
and she didn't need to be asked.
Like, we were improvising and walkingback up to the car, and my mom hid and
(08:30):
didn't ruin the shot without, like,you know, I was like, there we go.
she was doing.
Yeah, she did.
And it was really fun, too, becauseoccasionally, like, it was like,
my Uncle Brian has a greenhouse,and my mom was like, oh, you
should film in his greenhouse.
And I, and then we were like, oh, andshe's like, I can just pull up the car so
that the car shines into the greenhouse.
(08:52):
So the greenhouse was lit byso my mom was a good sport.
That's awesome.
Yeah, it was really fun.
And like, obviously we were alsoreally unsafe because like, you know,
you're probably not supposed to shine areally bright light to cars behind you.
So like, while while we were drivingto my Uncle Brian's house, we're like
Taking the take because why wouldn't youyeah, but the camera is just flashing
(09:15):
whoever's behind us So it was reallyfun, I don't know if that I I totally
lost the question But anyways, thatwas how we do a zero budget music.
Yeah, and I'm veryexcited Excited about it.
It looks really good.
I can't wait to see.
I'm so excited.
Mm-hmm . Oh, and uh, the other thingthat's really fun about it is I actually
just finished uploading it right beforethis phone call, but I made an additional
(09:39):
video as just a lyric video and thelyric video was because we did, um.
Some additional footage in like the onlygay bar in Traverse City, Michigan So
they have like a disco ball and likea mirror and like this checkered floor
and it just looks like something thatwould be in like Twin Peaks or something
(09:59):
and So I Tried to originally it wasgonna be a combo like this spooky video
Combined with the disco footage and thenI was like I got so much disco footage.
I could just make an entire second videoAnd make this one just the lyric video.
So there's like the pop sidethat happens for the people
that want the less spooky video.
(10:20):
And that's the disco one.
I can't wait for both.
I love a little spooky moment,but I also love disco and
like a little pop moment too.
Absolutely.
It was so fun.
Um, growing up with your parentsalso being artists, did that
influence your art at all?
Like, do you ever find yourself beinglike, Oh, maybe that's something that
I gained from my mom, or maybe that'ssomething that, like, I got from my dad?
(10:45):
Um, absolutely.
I would say mostly that's visual, visual.
So they're both, um, Yeah,they're both visual artists.
My dad does sculpture and workson paper and my mom is, uh, mostly
just works on paper and thenshe's an art teacher as well.
My dad always did, like, carpentryand, like, cabinet making to
make a living outside of art.
(11:05):
But, um, one big influence isprobably them being pretty bad with
money and poor, so resourcefulness.
It's something I learned from my parents,but the main thing is having good taste,
like not to be a snot, but they justhave the best taste in furniture and
trinkets and colors of the floor and thecolor tile you pick out and the wall.
(11:29):
So basically I learned how tobe picky and look after quality.
And, um, yeah, I don't know.
That's thank God for my parents taste.
My parents have excellent taste.
So.
Yeah, it's good to be picky too.
I think some people look down onthat, but it's good to know what
you like and what is best for you.
(11:49):
Like what your art means and Iknow that it makes me difficult
to work with in certain waysJust because I'll be like sorry.
Can you read?
Can you read you that?
The pink is slightly too pinklike let's make the pink go
slightly more reddish hue.
Oh, no now that's too redLet's go, you know what I mean?
Like, I, the micromanaging ness, I'm like,thank God I just learned how to edit.
(12:14):
Because I have gone into, like,these, these two videos coming
up are both 60 frames per second.
And I will go and do the slider backand forth and back and forth until I
got the exact fucking frame I want.
I'll be like, nope, the light shines onmy face in a place that I don't like.
One frame.
Too late.
Imagine if I had to tell somebody that.
(12:35):
The Ring music video had 182 cuts in it.
OMG.
So I would have drivensomeone fucking crazy.
But then it makes itjust how you wanted it.
Exactly.
It's literally like basically no notes.
I love that.
Yeah, it was really fun.
Do you incorporate yourfashion into your art world?
(12:59):
Vice versa.
Does that like coincide within your music?
It's a huge part of it because, um, that'sactually like a main reason why I dropped
out of fashion design school is becauseI kind of realized that I would never
be happy with the fact that it didn't.
Um, satisfy my like stage, uh,attention, um, aspect of me, like, like
(13:25):
music involves fashion, but fashiondoesn't necessarily involve music.
Like it should, but basicallylike, I wouldn't be happy
working for Calvin Klein.
I, I would be happy being CalvinKlein, but I respect that as being
its entire own craft and music is mycraft because I can be Calvin Klein
(13:46):
and make my creative, visual, aestheticfashion decisions as my person, you
know, I totally relate to that so much.
That's kind of like, I'm in asimilar spot, different worlds,
but I'm at a music school.
I don't, I don't have any music.
Oh, cool.
But I was like, I don't want tojust, um, I don't know, like, I love
(14:07):
working with artists, but I wantedto create a platform where I could,
um, do something with myself too.
And so that's why I created a podcast.
Oh, that's awesome.
I wanted to be an artist aswell, but I'm, I'm not singing
or anything like that, but yeah.
There's all sorts of differentart, and part of being an
artist is being a curator.
So you are curating your podcast tohave all the artists that you want.
(14:28):
Definitely, and I'm like, if I can'tmake the music, then I can talk to
the people that are making the musicI like, and then share their stories.
Cause we don't, also we don't see enoughqueer people or femme people in the music
space that are being Not hated on or not.
Oh, yeah, torn down.
It was a huge.
It's less of an issue now.
(14:48):
Thank goodness, but I used tohave a lot of trouble with people,
um, asking me who makes my music.
Yeah, because like, you know, beingfemme and, um, like, I just would be like
somebody be like, Oh, are you the VJ?
I'm like, No.
Like they're like, ohwho's playing your tracks?
(15:08):
And I'm like, what do you mean?
Who's playing my tracks?
I have an octotrack in front of me.
Like do you think they're miming the gear?
Like what do you mean?
It's miming.
You know?
Exactly.
So people just like assume that youdon't make shit if you're female or
femme or I'm sure it happens and Foranybody who's like queer as well.
(15:29):
It's just discredited all the time.
Yeah Definitely.
Um, your songs explore themesof connection and intimacy.
How do your personal experienceslike narrate, narrate your music?
Or do you use like some nonpersonal experiences, like
fictional experiences to?
Create music as well.
Um, I think that generallyspeaking, my music comes direct
(15:53):
from my personal experiences ordreams and ambitions, you know?
So it's either, either stuff that's like.
Stuff I want to happen or likeimagine or dream or it's um, like,
you know, it could be a bad dreamYou could talk about a bad dream.
Yeah, but it's like it's generallyspeaking direct from Something that
(16:16):
I've experienced myself or that I'mthinking of like with the song hotel
jacuzzi Which like that song didn'treally do very well I don't know why I
didn't see the light of day cuz I backit up, but basically That one, um, you
know, like talks about wanting to havea luxurious life with somebody where you
fly all around the world and stay in, youknow, fancy hotels with nice jacuzzis.
(16:43):
I, I haven't lived that yet, you know, ofcourse I'm trying to be a little bit more
jet set and I'm a little more luxurious.
Um, yeah, but, uh, so the, the songthat's about to come out, which is called
the ring is, um, actually my first nonromantic song that I've ever released.
So all of my other songs havesomething to do with romance, even
(17:05):
if that's like imaginary romance.
Whereas this one is my first songfrom experience about, um, You
know, more, uh, miscommunicationsbetween, um, non romantic people.
I'm so excited, I can't wait.
Yeah!
Um, but being so vulnerable can beexhausting and it can take a toll.
Are there any ways that you, um, like,recoup or kind of practice, like,
(17:29):
any self care to keep you from not,like, just losing all of your energy
from expressing yourself so much?
Um, I would say that, uh, music can bekind of a release of the bad feelings
if you're exhausted about somethingthat's making you anxious, you know,
romantically or socially, although it'salso something that I could be kind of
(17:55):
in a decent mood and then trying to writea song and then like feel the life being
sucked out of me because like the thingI'm thinking about is bowing me out and
I'm like, Oh God, I can't not in themood right now, like either that or it
makes you write something really goodbecause you're like really in your feels.
(18:15):
Um, but as for recharging, I would saythe main number one thing, other than
like going for a bike ride, which Iam, that's something I do a lot and
I love and it's part of my lifestyleis, you know, um, biking and exercise
would be, uh, a long, very hot shower.
Like, I have heat and hot watercovered at the place I live, thank God.
(18:40):
And I will, I don't know if I shouldtalk about water waste, like there's
like billionaires and stuff that arelike doing horrible things, so I think
it's okay that I take a 45 minuteshower, but I will just, I will do the
everything shower, I'll do like threedifferent face treatments and a hair
mask, like anytime I want, and I love it.
(19:00):
I totally relate to that.
I got a job at Lush so I could getthe discount for my shower stuff.
Oh my god, you still have a job at Lush?
Yeah.
Wait, I want the hair stuff.
What's the white gloss?
Like, it's like the leave in conditioner.
Is it the super milk?
I want it.
I bought some yesterday.
(19:23):
It's actually so good for your hair.
How's that employee discount?
It's so good.
Are you going to be on tour or doingany performances and upcoming soon?
Yeah, so I think like that's whywhen you originally said the 8th,
I think we had that, I had thatdate as the original release date
before it got moved to the 6th.
I'm pretty sure when I wasoriginally talking to you, but.
(19:43):
That's partly because Ihave a festival on the 9th.
Okay.
So, and then it was like, oh,okay, wait, the sooner the better,
because then hopefully peoplewill know the lyrics to the song.
Yeah.
But, um, so I'm playing Grazone Festival,I think I just said it correctly,
but that's in, um, the Netherlands.
And, like, Geneva Jacuzzi and Trust areplaying, a bunch of really cool bands.
It's like, I think, Three orfour day festival, I believe.
(20:07):
And it's like a lot oflegends are playing.
Um, and then immediately followingthat I'm going to play Berlin, um,
and, uh, uh, Bordeaux and Marseille.
I'm hoping I'm saying all of thosecorrectly, but those are, I'm, I'm joining
Zeno and Oaklander again on tour justfor a couple dates, but I really love
(20:28):
them and I had so much fun last time.
So that's going to be cool.
Um, and.
Then I think I have some East Coastdates after I return from Europe.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I need to make it to one of your shows.
You're based in Chicago, right?
I'm actually in Oklahoma city.
Oh, cool.
Okay.
Well, hopefully soon.
(20:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I travel a lot.
Um, I, during the summer, I work.
For like a festival network.
So, Oh, really?
Oh, that's cool.
Yeah.
So I'm awesome.
Work.
I need to get me up if you're in New York.
Yeah, definitely.
And then I have one last question.
So at pop palace, we love to askour guests to create their own like
(21:09):
Royal court of, um, their favoritetop three musical influences.
So who would sit on your throne?
Oh, can they be living or dead?
Yeah.
Anybody.
Okay.
Let's see.
Um, Royal Court.
Uh
(21:29):
Let's put, um, sorry, uh, hmm, okay, let'sput Billie Holiday on there, and then,
um, uh, um, okay, sorry, this is a, I'mtaking this question extremely seriously.
I love it.
(21:49):
Um,
uh, Schwafelgalb.
Those were like myfavorite German producers.
I know that's like two people,they're a band, but like, okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
Um, I would just love to like askthem some gear questions, you know?
Um, and then, um, let's put, uh,I'm trying to like round it out.
(22:17):
So I have a singer, I have a, I havea, some really good hardware producers.
Um, let's make a, um,
I want to, I'll, I'll put, um,the, the Julian Casablanca's
on there just cause I, oh yeah.
Okay.
(22:37):
That's, that's like tough.
Julian Casablanca's or the, or PaulBanks just to have like one of my
two, like, cause like Interpol and theStrokes, like are really important to
my musical, like origins, you know.
Definitely.
Yeah.
Okay.
There we go.
Well, thank you so much formaking the time to meet with me.
(22:58):
I really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me, Jack.
It was a lot of fun.
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