February 24, 2025 • 41 mins
Welcome to Making Maverick Moves, the podcast where we explore the bold decisions and unorthodox paths taken by extraordinary individuals. This episode is both timely and sobering. Before the devastating wildfires swept through Los Angeles in January 2025, Gina L. Osborn sat down with Los Angeles Fire Chief Kristin Crowley in November 2024. At the time, Chief Crowley shared a Maverick Move she was making, one rooted in the reality of operating a fire department with limited resources. She spoke candidly about the challenges of fulfilling her mission without the funding or tools her team desperately needed. Little did we know, within weeks, that her words would take on an even more profound significance. As fires ravaged communities like the Pacific Palisades, reservoirs ran dry, fire hydrants failed, and lives were forever changed. Chief Crowley faced intense criticism in the aftermath, particularly for publicly addressing her department's three years of budget cuts. Some accused her of deflecting blame; others saw her as a leader speaking hard truths in an impossible situation. Today, we revisit that December conversation, recorded before the fires, where Chief Crowley revealed her Maverick Move in the making. It's a testament to the complexities of leadership under pressure.
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(00:00):
So the Maverick move right now, it'shappening as we speak, you know, so it's
my job to stand up and to fight the fightfor what our people need when it comes to
the saying that we use is everybody goeshome and everybody's got to go home to
their families at the end of their shifts.
So the maverick move,
I'm standing up and I got tofight the fight to get our people
(00:23):
what they need to do their job.
Welcome to Making Maverick Moves,the podcast where we explore the
bold decisions and unorthodox pathstaken by extraordinary individuals.
I'm Gina L. Osborne, and today'sepisode is both timely and sobering.
In November, just before thedevastating wildfire swept through
(00:46):
Los Angeles, I sat down with L. A.City Fire Chief, Kristin Crowley.
At the time, Chief Crowley shared withme a maverick move she was making, one
rooted in the reality of operating afire department with limited resources.
She spoke candidly about the challenges offulfilling her mission without the funding
(01:09):
or tools her team desperately needed.
Little did we know that within amonth and a half, her words would
take on an even deeper significance.
As fires ravaged communities likePacific Palisades, reservoirs
ran dry, fire hydrants failed,and lives were changed forever.
(01:31):
Chief Crowley faced intense criticismin the aftermath, particularly for
publicly addressing her department'sthree years of budget cuts.
Some accused her of deflecting blame.
Others saw her as a leader speakinghard truths in an impossible situation.
Today, we revisit that Novemberconversation recorded before the
(01:52):
fires where Chief Crowley revealedher maverick move in the making.
It's a testament to the complexitiesof leadership under pressure.
So let's dive in.
Welcome to the show, Chief Crowley.
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here andhave some time with you to talk.
(02:14):
Great.
Uh, we know all of the highlights of youramazing career, um, being the first female
fire chief in the city of Los Angeles.
Can you give us a little background asto how you got started in this wonderful
community oriented career that you have?
Absolutely.
And you know, my journey is really unique.
Uh, I honestly did not knowanything about the fire service.
(02:37):
I'm originally from the Midwest.
I'm a Green Bay gal. So from GreenBay, Wisconsin, and there's my accent.
It kind of came out, but I'vebeen out in LA for over 30 years.
And originally, um, I was astudent athlete my entire life.
And had a knee injury.
I played soccer and basketballin college and tore my ACL.
I was like, okay, you know, I, I startedto move towards orthopedic surgery.
(03:02):
And I love that.
I thought that's, that's my calling.
And so started, uh, testing for differentor getting ready for the MCAT, I
should say, and applying to differentmedical schools when I moved out to LA.
And lo and behold, everybody in myclass wanted to become a firefighter.
And I was like, what is the bigdeal about this firefighting thing?
So I decided to move forward and got myEMT, my Emergency Medical Technician,
(03:26):
and then moved towards a paramedic.
And again, everybody in paramedicschool wanted to be a firefighter,
and what's the big deal?
You talk about those opportunitiesthat kind of come before you if
you pay attention, and that'sexactly what happened to me.
Super focused.
Uh, that's just how my mind works.
And I was like, I am on my way applyingto medical schools and I'm focused.
(03:47):
And when it came to doing our internshipsand said, okay, who wants to go to LA
city and do their paramedic ride outs?
Nobody in my class raised their hand.
And I was like, why isnobody raising their hand?
I'm going to raise my hand.
So I raised my hand tall and proud.
And they said, you do notwant to go to LA city.
That is a really toughenvironment for a woman first and
(04:07):
foremost, let alone a paramedic.
And I was like, no, I I'm in,put me there, put me in coach
is, was my, my, my mentality.
So I ended up doing my internshipand literally within a half hour.
Uh, being in the fire station, Ijust thought, wow, this is exactly
what I'm supposed to be doing.
And it fell right into place.
And here I am, good 25 yearslater, the fire chief of Los
(04:31):
Angeles City Fire Department.
That's a great story.
What were the voices inside yourhead that made you want to make
that leap and step outside of yourcomfort zone and come out to LA?
I tell you, uh, it was just theexposure being from the Midwest.
It was such an incredibleplace to grow up.
I loved it.
Small community, great schools,really amazing family, and my
(04:56):
sister actually lived out here.
Of course, being in the Midwest, uh,with all the cold weather, when you don't
know any better is what I like to say.
I would come out and visit her.
I was like, okay, that's,that's where we want to be.
And that was a big leap at two weeksafter I graduated, moved out with
some friends and we didn't have jobs.
We just, uh, other than me knowingthat, okay, I'm going to start
getting, uh, ready for medical school.
(05:18):
And that was my focus.
So drove out here and, andbeen out here since 1993.
That's terrific.
So what was it like for you back thencompared to what you're seeing now?
Wow.
What, what a great question.
Things have changed a lot.
And just, just in general, thinkabout that in 1993, when I moved
(05:41):
out here, um, I was hired in 98 andwent through the fire academy in 99.
And I tell you, um, a lotof things have changed.
I mean, just, In general, a lot of thingshave changed in society, but when it comes
to the fire service, wow, I think backto where it was definitely an anomaly.
Uh, being a woman, uh, therewas 50 people in my class.
(06:04):
Two of us were women, both of us,uh, graduated and were successful.
You think about, well, what staysthe same and what's different?
We're still struggling within the fireservice to look for qualified, uh, women.
mindset, have the physicalcapability of becoming a firefighter.
And that's what hasn't changed.
(06:24):
I can tell you that we are still pushingforward and driving to figure out ways,
how we can prepare women for the job.
Our department is still at, we're justabout, uh, three and a half, almost 4
percent women on our entire department.
And that's actually where we were.
25 years ago, which is really interesting.
And now that I'm in the seat, youknow, it's like, what has changed?
(06:46):
What's the different mindset?
Certainly it's top of mind, but it takes avery strong, calculated, focused approach
on, you know, what type of people wewant to bring into the organization.
So a lot has changed, honestly, but alot is, has actually stayed the same.
So being from the three and a half to 4%,um, which is, you know, Shocking in 2024,
(07:12):
you know, um, I mean, I, I remember whenI was in the army back in the eighties,
you know, I think 10 percent of the womenwere soldiers and I thought there aren't
a little out of women around here, soI would imagine that in any given day,
you're the only one, or you're one ofvery few walking around the stations.
Absolutely.
And that's, that's kind of how it was,um, coming up through the ranks within
(07:34):
our department and people always ask me,what is, what was it like, or what is it
like, uh, being with the fire department?
And mind you, a lot of otherlarge organizations have
very, very similar numbers.
On a national average, it's about5 percent women in career, uh,
types of, uh, fire departments.
So I often say, you know, being a womanon the job within the fire service,
(07:57):
the eyes are always on you, but they'realways on you a little bit longer.
And what I noticed starting right out ofthe fire academy, let alone going through
a year of probation, let alone, Yes, youhit it spot on being the only woman in
entire battalion in a battalion, maybe,you know, seven to 12 to 14 stations
(08:19):
and you could be the only woman in theentire battalion, let alone your station.
So, uh, that's just kind of how itwas coming up through the ranks, but.
I just kind of took that head on of,of understanding and having the mindset
that I have a tremendous amount aseverybody else on this department to
contribute in a lot of different ways.
(08:40):
We absolutely all have our strengthsand weaknesses and it doesn't
matter what industry you're in.
But what helped me throughout my careeris having a strong sense of purpose
and being comfortable in my skin.
And also just pushing forward andmaking sure that honestly, you know,
I felt like I'm going to work harder.
(09:01):
I'm going to actually outpace everybody.
I'm going to work harder.
I'm going to learn my job.
I'm going to learn and understandhow to train others around me.
Set that, uh, example to everybodyat what it's like to be somebody
who's full in and understands howimportant this job is to the community.
So I also had to learn howto turn down that noise.
(09:24):
And I think that when we all take abig step back, it's that self doubt.
I certainly, uh, for sure had that andstill have it, uh, throughout my career,
but I learned a way to turn that down.
And with that, I think, you know, there'sso many other obstacles that can be
placed in our way, uh, and challengesthat I just felt like, I'm not, I'm going
(09:44):
to make sure I get out of my own way.
And by that, you turn on thenoise and you figure out a way.
It's like, okay, how do youcapitalize on these opportunities?
How do you jump in and be that firstone to say, yeah, yeah, I'll do it.
I'm in, you know, and then youjust become so valuable to that
team that now everybody's like,wow, now you're the go to person.
And that's kind of what I carriedwith me throughout my entire career.
(10:08):
And it's actually workedreally, really well.
That's terrific.
So what's the secret inturning off that noise?
I think first and foremost, it's beingaware that that is something that is real.
And that is something thatyou can actually control.
And by, by turning down the selfdoubt and the noises, you know, when
(10:30):
you have that self doubt and say, ah,I'm not sure if I have what it takes.
I definitely gotchallenged in the academy.
I mean, being a student athlete playingtwo sports in college, I mean, I was
very, and still am very, very competitive,but I tell you, I am very small in
stature, I'm five, five with my boots on.
And that expectation is, uh, for me to beable to do the same job as anybody else.
(10:53):
this job.
So I had to figure out away that worked for me.
And that self doubt absolutely crept in.
But I learned that very early on.
It's like, okay, this is not helping.
So how do I push through it?
And the way I push through it issetting yourself up for success.
Meaning are there other opportunitiesto help me shore up in areas that
(11:14):
I don't feel so confident in?
How can I get myself out thereso that I'm going to learn it?
I'm going to move past it.
And then in the end, actually,people, like I said, look to you
for that assistance, or they look toyou to provide them some strength.
So I think that's how I, when I lookback on it, that's how I was able
(11:34):
to work through those times wherethat noise in my head was loud.
And I just, you know, Turned it downand said, okay, I got to focus on what
I need to get done and how I can improveand how I can provide, you know, a
large amount of contributions to thepeople around me so that they can see
it's like, wow, she knows her job.
(11:54):
She's competent.
Uh, she's earned the respectof others around her.
And that, again, I just look back on thatand that's how I was able to push through.
Man, that's great advice.
Well, as I look at your bio, I wasso impressed at the fact when you
talk about climbing the ladder tosuccess, and we're going to use a
little firefighting jargon here.
(12:16):
I mean, you hit every singlesolitary rung on your way to success.
While you were promoting being,you know, someone who is different
within this male dominated field.
How was that?
I mean, how did you feel as youwere promoting step after step after
step after step, and how did peopletreat you while you were doing that?
(12:39):
Yeah, that was absolutelypurposeful and that was the mindset.
I kind of talked about my backgroundand, you know, one and two initially
thinking that my, my career journeywas going to be in medicine.
And the mindset was even as aphysician, like that's what kind
of drew me to it was, I know I'mConstantly have to be learning new
(13:01):
things, new techniques, medications,better ways, safer ways to do the job.
And that just translated over perfectlywhen I decided I made that decision.
It's like, okay, if I'm not goingto medical school, Then this fire
service career of mine is a choice.
It's something that I knewwould continually push me.
(13:24):
I would want to continuallypush myself into a new position.
Once I became comfortable in my ownskin and what I mean by comfortable
in my own skin, I felt like promisedmyself that I would never, ever,
ever, ever become complacent.
And by being complacent, I meant like,Oh, once I'm comfortable, I'm good.
(13:44):
I'm just going to kind of kickback and relax and I'm good.
I just, I don't think I'm wired that way.
So it wouldn't have mattered.
I think where I landed in any typeof career, but with the fire service,
that's what was so, um, intriguing to mebecause I felt alone, like I said, with
my stature, I'm gonna have to continuallymake sure that I'm taking care of
(14:05):
myself, that I can physically do the job.
And on top of that, there's so manyincredible opportunities to, especially
with the Los Angeles city fire department.
We're huge.
We're one, we're the third largestdepartment in the nation, serving the
second largest city, 106 fire stations.
So that was like anopen playground for me.
(14:27):
I felt like, wow, think about theopportunities, how much I have to
learn my job, how Once I got tothat point, that was my pivot point.
I'm like, okay, what's next?
Is it in the field?
Do I go to a different assignment?
Do I go to like a staff assignmentthat can help me make great decisions?
And then whatever's going to help mecontinue to grow and push and learn.
That's exactly the trackthat I, that I took.
(14:50):
Um, and, and purposeful, right?
From already being a paramedic,that was a huge headstart.
And then being a firefighter,moving on to engineer.
Moving on to inspire inspector,captain one, captain two, battalion
chief, assistant chief, deputy chief,chief deputy, and then fire chief.
So the other purposeful thing was Ididn't want anybody ever question where
(15:15):
and how I got to where I was with that.
It's like, okay, if I continue to push anddrive and then I promote, and then guess
what, I have to start all over again.
And that was actually intriguing tome because I was like, all right,
I got a blank slate Now, I got toprove myself all over again, which
was actually pretty motivating to me.
And then from that point, Ilook for that next opportunity
(15:37):
to, uh, to learn and grow.
So you talk a little bitabout the internal noise.
Was there any external noise thattried to slow you down during all of
those promotions and rising to the top?
Yes.
There, there is.
I think that's common everywhere.
Absolutely.
I mean, the, the int and that's, Ikind of alluded to that a little bit
(15:58):
earlier where what you can controlis what you can't control and that's
what's going through your head.
So first and foremost, I needed to figureout a way to push through that and turn
down the noise on the outside for sure.
There's opportunities when you startnew and nobody knows who you are.
There's biases all over the place, butwhen it came, pushed, come came to shove.
(16:23):
The mindset was my peers aroundme or supervisor around me.
That mindset that I talked aboutearlier, I'm going to outpace everybody.
I want to outwork everybody.
I want to make sure that I'm outthere learning the job and earning
the credibility and the competency.
Once I got to that point, that those,uh, external, like, like you said,
(16:44):
uh, external noise that was out therewas, was either shut down and, or
you turn that person into an ally.
And I found that time and time andtime again, the eyes were on me.
They're on me a little bit longer,but once they saw that work ethic and
the mindset that I was bringing tothe team, they're kind of like, wow,
(17:04):
I got to get out of her way, right?
Or I'm here to help her or whatever.
But I also want to bemindful that there were.
More than a handful of times in my careerwhere, yeah, things weren't always so
great, uh, just from statements or, orthings that happened in and around me.
And I had to learn reallyearly on in the job.
(17:26):
And this happened very early on with,um, oh gosh, uh, about three years on the
job and, and something happened and wherea supervisor just kind of came forward.
And I tell this story becauseit really helped shape.
My ability to create, let's just sayhealthy boundaries with what I'm going to
(17:48):
actually accept, uh, the type of treatmentand what I'm not going to accept.
And it happened really early on.
And I'll just tell this story really quickwhere we had a, had a captain in my fire
station who was newer, but it was just abig bully and everybody was scared of him.
I'm the only woman thereagain in my battalion.
(18:09):
He comes in and really changes thedynamics of our entire fire station.
I had already been there a number ofyears and all the, my fellow firefighters
around me, they were like, you know,it's like having 14 brothers and he
came in, really changed the environment.
We're sitting down in lineup and that'sjust when we get together in the morning,
(18:29):
we go over new material, we talk aboutwhat's going to happen for the day.
And this is what he said verbatim.
He said, you know, there's,there's three things I hate in the
fire station, hand lotion, hairdryers, and female firefighters.
Oh wow.
And he said it in front of my brothers.
And I thought, I just sat there for amoment and I, I didn't want to overreact.
(18:52):
I just, I took it in.
And I looked around andnobody said anything.
They were all afraid of him.
He just went on and we finished lineup.
And after that, I had one of my, uh,more senior members come up to me and
he said, ah, Kristin, do you want me to,do you want me to say something to him?
And I said, no, I got it.
He looked at me.
(19:12):
You should have seen his face.
They didn't know what was going to happen.
And again, this was with threeyears on the job and had already
proven myself to my crew.
And I was like, all right, thisis my time to do something.
So I didn't lose my mind.
I didn't allow myself toget emotional about it.
I just took a deep breath.
And he said, are you sure?
I said, no, I got it.
(19:33):
And everybody was on pins and needles.
They thought I wasgoing to call the chief.
They thought I was gonna, youknow, uh, make everybody get
detailed out of the station.
And I said, no, I got it.
Just only walked into the front office.
Shut the door behind me.
And you could not have heard a pin drop.
Everybody was like, Oh mygosh, what's going to happen.
And I just, uh, had a very candidconversation with them, approached
(19:55):
them in a very, just calm manner andlaid it out and what I said, I said
his name and I said, I need you tounderstand this and I need you to
hear me and my words, what happenedin lineup was absolutely unacceptable
and it better not happen again.
And he was quiet and he lookedat me, never apologized.
(20:19):
And all he said with his boots upon the desk was, okay, that was it.
Turned around, walked out.
And guess what happened after that?
Nothing.
Right.
He didn't ever do it again.
He understood exactly where I stood.
So when those situations happenthroughout the rest of my career, I
(20:40):
think that that actually was carriedwith me because the members understood,
wow, she's going to handle business.
She's going to stick up for herself.
She's going to do it in a way that istotally appropriate and just confront
the situation and not lose her mind.
And that's exactly what I did.
And I learned how to do it.
I don't know why I did it.
(21:01):
I don't know how I did it.
I just knew it wassomething that I had to do.
And that is all about setting boundaries.
And, and really it depends on thescenario, but with that particular
scenario, that's exactly, I knewthat's exactly what I needed to do.
At that point, there was no issues andI think the members also were like,
wow, I don't, I don't know if theywould have had the courage to do that.
(21:23):
So they looked at it and like,wow, okay, she handled it.
And then I carried that withme the rest of my career.
Yeah.
That is a great example of how settingboundaries, I mean, throughout the rest
of your career because you did it onceand that was the expectation of how
you were going to handle your business.
Right.
And it goes a long way.
And sometimes, and even for theindividuals listening in, it's like,
(21:47):
you can kind of preload yourself,like, give yourself situations.
If you find yourself in that situationand you've already thought about it,
then you, you can, you can actually havea game plan and you won't react, right?
You don't have to reactthe wrong way or whatever.
So you can actually set yourself up.
And sometimes you can'teven imagine the situation.
scenario that you may be in, butit's okay to take a deep breath.
(22:09):
It's okay to kind of collect yourself.
Uh, but in the end, it's like, you know,those boundaries are so, so important,
especially if you find yourself ina situation where, you know, you're
going to have to create the boundaries.
So the members know exactly, youknow, where are you, where are
you, um, and what you're going tostand up for, um, including, you
(22:32):
know, what your own boundariesare and people need to know that.
Mm hmm this season we're talkingabout making maverick moves.
Was there a time in your careerwhere you've made this maverick
move where you've had to pick a pillthat you are willing to die on in
order to move on with your career?
(22:53):
Oh, that is such a fantastic question.
And the Maverick moves, um,there, there are situations.
I just think back over the last 25years where you're at a jumping off
point and you have to make a decision.
Either it's like in the military,as you know, it's like a go or
no go where, and how are yougoing to put yourself out there?
(23:14):
And really, what are yougoing to stand up for?
I tell you, being in the fire chief'sposition, it's coming up on my
third year, which would be in March.
And there's so.
Many situations that I find myself in,and it is an absolute honor every single
day, I think, and I wake up and I justthink to myself, like, what an amazing
(23:36):
opportunity to be able to represent themen and women of our organization that do.
Absolute amazing things every single day.
And it's up to me to advocateand to fight for the things that
our people need to do their jobs.
And I find myself right now,currently in a position where
(23:58):
you talk about a Maverick move.
When budgets are tight and we haveto make some really, really tough
decisions in regard to how we'regoing to operate and how we're going
to be able to provide services to 3
8 million people in thecity of Los Angeles.
And when things get tight, the, theMaverick move is it's happening as we
(24:20):
speak, Gina, and I'll just describethis feeling that I'm having right now.
And the city is in a, in a,in a budget crunch right now.
When it comes to my position as the chiefof advocating and fighting for the safety
and well being of our firefighters, that'smy job to stand up and to say the fire
(24:42):
department can no longer operate this way.
We're understaffed, underresourced, and underfunded.
And a lot of the times, that's justlike, ah, you know, are you really?
I mean, our Los Angeles CityFire Department, is in, uh,
we're literally at a crossroads.
So the Maverick move is meto stand up and say the fire
(25:02):
department can no longer do this.
And that's a pretty uncomfortableposition to be in, especially when
the fire department, especially theLos Angeles City Fire Department
is in a position where we take moreon, we take more on, we take more
on, but at what cost to our people?
And so the Maverick move, Uh, right nowit's, it's happening as we speak, Gina.
(25:24):
So it's my job to stand up and to, tofight the fight for what our people
need when it comes to the saying thatwe use is everybody goes home and
everybody's got to go home to theirfamilies at the end of their shifts.
So the Maverick move, I'm standing upand I got to fight the fight to get our
people what they need to do their jobs.
And even now you're dealing with somany different things besides the
(25:49):
fires, you know, you're dealing withthe homeless population and, and all of
the things that are, that you have torespond to with, I mean, there's so many
things that are happening in the city.
You're probably doing so many morethings now than you ever did before.
Yes, we're, we're busierthan we ever have.
And now that the LAFD has been around for138 years, I tell you that the caliber
(26:12):
of people that take on this mission,just either from the first responder
side or the military side, there's somany, uh, and, and the law enforcement
side, I should say is our counterparts.
It takes really, really special groupof people that take on this mission.
Each and every day and where our peopleare putting their lives on the line.
(26:32):
They're putting others.
in front of themselves, they'resacrificing and their families
are sacrificing every single day.
So we're busier than we've ever been,um, within the city of Los Angeles.
And you hit on a couple points from thefires to, you know, assisting the city
with the unhoused population, We ran over500, 000 calls in 2023 and we're actually
(26:56):
on pace to run even more in 2024 withless personnel than we had 10 years ago
to be able to stand up and communicateand have strategies and innovations
and efficiencies are really important.
You just can't stand up and complain.
You got to have some strong strategiesmoving forward of how we can be more
(27:16):
efficient with what we've got, but alsoto have the courage to stand up and say,
hey, we can't maintain this anymore.
So we have to be really smart,really calculated in what types
of services the LEFD can continue.
to provide and because we are spreadvery, very, very thin and we're
focusing back on our core fundamentalsof emergency services and fire
(27:39):
and emergency medical services.
And that's, that's our core mission,core fundamentals of who we are.
So, you know, we have to recalibrateand that's okay, but we can't
keep doing more with less.
And, uh, so we're just goingto be super smart about it.
So what are the consequences?
Every Maverick move has a consequence.
So what is the consequencefor you taking on this fight?
(28:03):
Yeah, so it's, it's, the consequencesare And it's not, not a really
comfortable position to be in, right?
You make these maverick moves.
And I'm sure as you talk to otherpeople, like you said, there's
consequences to everything.
And if you're willing to takesomething on, and this is where
we are, this is our reality.
So the consequences are ourservice delivery model is going
(28:23):
to look a little different.
Uh, the way that we provide serviceswhen somebody calls 911, if it, if it's
not quite to the level of, of whereand what and how we utilize our limited
resources, then we have to come up withother solutions of utilizing other types
of services within the city, somethingthat's not emergency, something that might
(28:44):
take a little bit more time to get thereversus the normal way we'd send a fire
engine, a fire truck, or an ambulance,to provide a low level type of service.
And that's a consequence.
It's like, okay, we can't keep doingit because we have limited resources.
So our service delivery.
Has got to change andthat's uncomfortable, right?
It's, it's easy for us to justkeep doing it and keep doing it.
(29:06):
But I tell you, we're at that tippingpoint, um, when it comes to taking care
of our people and you know, what arethe consequences of, of our own actions?
If we keep doing the same thing.
And I tell you, ourfirefighters are tired.
Our firefighters are getting injured.
Our firefighters are makingmistakes because of their fatigue.
So something's got to give andyou know, that's the maverick
(29:28):
move that we just talked about.
It's like, okay, we've gotto do things different.
We've got to take care of our people.
We have to continue to serve thecommunities, uh, and the public,
but it's going to look, it'sgoing to look a little different.
There's when you look at leaders, youknow, I'm sure if you go back and think
about all of the leaders that you havehad, the majority of leaders kind of
(29:50):
lean toward the status quo, especiallyin such a high profile position that,
that you have probably be a lot easierjust to say, okay, you know what, we're
just going to continue to do it all.
But it sounds like thisis more of a moral stand.
It is.
Absolutely.
And you're spot on.
And you know, it seems kindof like, Oh, you know, we're
(30:11):
going to challenge status quo.
It's true.
Right?
So we've had a service delivery modelfor a long, long, long, long time.
And we haven't necessarily changed it.
We don't have any moreresources coming to us.
So we got to do things different.
And I think it's actually prettyrefreshing when I go around and visit
stations and talk to our members, wetalk about the strategies, you know,
(30:35):
our members, they're, they're lookingfor leadership and they're looking
for a leader that'll stand up andnot just throw your hands up and, you
know, just get upset about things.
It's like, we've got to put ourheads together and be more efficient
in how we Deliver our service.
And there's ways to do that.
And even being okay to stand upand I'm the, actually the first
paramedic fire chief in thehistory of our entire department.
(30:58):
Wow.
So I definitely come in with a uniquemindset of what we do 81 percent of
the time is emergency medical services.
So it's okay for us to look atthat and go, okay, what else and
how else can we provide emergencymedical services and continue to do
what we're doing on the fire side?
And that's where we canget super, super creative.
(31:19):
We're created new types ofservice delivery where it's
a fast response vehicle.
It's got two people on it, not four.
We've got advanced practitioner unitswith physician assistants and nurse
practitioners on it that can actuallyprovide a higher level of care.
So those are the things that like,yeah, we're absolutely challenging
(31:39):
status quo because there's probably,and I'm actually not probably, there is
in fact, I'm certain a better Servicedelivery model out there and in the
end we're going to be safer And we'regoing to be able to provide a higher
level of service to the city of la Sowhat advice do you have for leaders?
Out there who are listening Who aresort of in a similar scenario and
(32:04):
they're at this cusp of having tomake a maverick move I think the, any
Maverick move, you don't want to do anytype of a knee jerk reaction, right?
Cause you, we talked about itearlier, like what, what are
those unanticipated consequences?
We've got to think about that.
So my advice would be make sure you'renot making a decision in a silo, right?
(32:28):
Cause when you're in that leadershipposition, um, and that's, that's
the beauty of being in this positionand reminding myself every single
day, there's zero ego in this.
And that's refreshing to a lot ofpeople because there's no other agenda
other than taking care of our peopleand taking care of the community.
So my advice would be, make surethat you're collaborating, that
(32:52):
you're talking, you're using otherpeople outside of your inner circles.
Before, if you've got that timeframebefore you make these Maverick
moves, because you have to look atit from so many different angles.
I've already learned with some maybesmaller Maverick moves that I've had
to make in, you know, the over twoand a half years I've been in the seat
(33:13):
and not everything has been perfect.
So you just adjust to it.
It's like, okay, well,that didn't go as planned.
So, wow, I need to talk to more peoplebefore I make a big move and it's okay to
look yourself in the mirror and go, okay.
Um, that didn't go well, or thatdidn't go how I thought it would go.
Don't dig your heels in.
You can always, always,always make an adjustment.
(33:36):
Um, and on top of that, before you makethe decision, make sure that you're
looking at it from multiple angles andyou've got, uh, people that you trust
in your inner circle, but then alsobounce that off of, uh, people that
can give you a different perspective.
And then you can really minimize thoseimpacts that you weren't thinking about.
(33:56):
Thank you, Chief Crowley,for being on this show.
You've just epitomized theauthentic leadership and you're
such an innovative thinker.
We are really happy and proudto have you as our fire chief.
Well, thank you so much, Gina.
Really appreciate theopportunity to speak with you.
And wow, looking forward toseeing what else we can do.
(34:19):
That was Chief Crowley back in November,issuing a warning before the firestorm.
She saw the dangerahead, sounded the alarm.
And fought to be heard,but no one listened.
When we come back, we'lldive into what happened next.
How Chief Crowley refused to back downduring the 2025 California wildfires,
(34:42):
and made her boldest Maverick move yet.
Looking for a keynote speakerwho redefines leadership?
Meet Gina L. Osborne.
As a U. S. Army Cold War spy catcherand FBI Special Agent Executive,
she knows what it takes to leadthrough chaos, crisis, and change.
(35:02):
Her secret?
Making maverick moves.
Bold, fearless strategies thatbreak barriers and shatter limits.
If you want your audience to thinkbigger, Lead stronger and own every room.
Gina delivers Book Gina l Osbornetoday and unleash the maverick
(35:23):
mindset at your next event.
Visit gina l osborne.com/making.
Maverick moves.
Welcome back.
Last year, mayor Karen Bass.
Cut the fire department Fiscal year 2024.
2025.
Budget according to ChiefCrowley by $17 million.
Making her maverick move, ChiefCrowley wrote a memo to the mayor
(35:47):
and the city council in December,stating these budgetary reductions have
adversely affected the department'sability to maintain core operations.
By early January, Thewildfires ravaged Los Angeles.
Fast forward to today and we've seenthe consequences play out in real time.
(36:11):
Over 40, 000 acres burned, 16, 000structures lost, 29 lives taken too soon.
When Mayor Karen Bass stood at the podiumin the midst of the crisis, detailing
the budget cuts, she said, there wereno reductions that were made that would
(36:31):
have impacted the situation we weredealing with over the last couple of days.
Chief Crowley knew shecouldn't stay silent.
She made the ultimate maverickmove, stepping in front
of the cameras on Fox 11.
NBC, CNN, and CBS to speak her truth.
(36:52):
My message is the fire departmentneeds to be properly funded.
And it's not.
It's not at this point.
And we've got the justification.
We know where our gaps in service are.
We know we need 62 new fire stations.
We need to double thesize of our firefighters.
The growth of this city.
Since 1960 has doubled andwe have less fire stations.
She didn't just point fingers.
(37:14):
She laid out the facts.
The L. A. City Fire Department runs1, 500 calls a day and conducts
650 daily patient transfers.
Fire service calls doubled since2010 resulting in a 55 percent
increase with 68 fewer firefighters.
(37:35):
I do believe if we would have setourselves up appropriately over
the past three years, we would havebeen in a better position of what
had happened here in the city wherewe lost homes and we lost lives.
And when asked if the cityhad failed her, she said yes.
Those three letters shook the city.
(37:58):
Some called it courageous, achief standing up for her troops
in the face of one of the worsturban firestorms in history.
Others called it a desperate act,even reducing her to a DEI hire.
But leadership isn't about titles,accolades, or playing it safe.
It's about standing in the fire,sometimes literally, when the
(38:21):
stakes are at their highest.
It's about making tough calls, speakinghard truths, and holding the line,
even when the world pushes back.
Chief Kristin Crowley embodiesthat kind of leadership.
She didn't just climb the ranks.
She earned every step, foughtfor every resource, and stood
(38:43):
tall when it mattered most.
When the fires raged and the cityneeded answers, she didn't shrink back.
She stepped forward.
She spoke up.
She led.
Making maverick moves requires courage,not just to take risks, but to endure the
backlash, the doubt, and the cynicism fromthose watching safely from the sidelines.
(39:07):
It's easy to criticize fromthe comfort of the crowd.
It's easy to take pot shots at thegladiator in the arena, the one
who's bloodied and bruised, doingwhat so many others wouldn't dare.
Theodore Roosevelt once said,it is not the critic who counts.
The credit belongs to the manwho is actually in the arena.
(39:30):
Whose face is marred bydust, and sweat, and blood.
Who at the best, knows in the end,the triumph of high achievement.
And who at the worst, ifhe fails, at least fails.
While daring greatly, the chiefCrowley and every leader who
refuses to sit on the sidelines.
Thank you.
(39:51):
Thank you for stepping into the arena.
Thank you for daringgreatly until next time.
Stay bold, stay relentless andkeep making maverick moves.
Making maverick moves with Gina L. Osborneis produced and edited by Lisa Osborne.
(40:14):
Theme music, Maverick Heart, is byretired IRS criminal investigative
attaché, Clarissa Balmesita.
Additional audio heard in this episodecourtesy of Fox 11 Los Angeles.
Connect with us on socialmedia through GinaLOsborn.
com/ Making Maverick Moves.
And don't miss an episode.
(40:34):
Subscribe to Making Maverick Moveswherever you get your podcasts.
So the Maverick move right now, it'shappening as we speak, you know, so it's
my job to stand up and to fight the fightfor what our people need when it comes to
the saying that we use is everybody goeshome and everybody's got to go home to
their families at the end of their shifts.
So the maverick move,
I'm standing up and I got tofight the fight to get our people
(00:23):
what they need to do their job.
Welcome to Making Maverick Moves,the podcast where we explore the
bold decisions and unorthodox pathstaken by extraordinary individuals.
I'm Gina L. Osborne, and today'sepisode is both timely and sobering.
In November, just before thedevastating wildfire swept through
(00:46):
Los Angeles, I sat down with L. A.City Fire Chief, Kristin Crowley.
At the time, Chief Crowley shared withme a maverick move she was making, one
rooted in the reality of operating afire department with limited resources.
She spoke candidly about the challenges offulfilling her mission without the funding
(01:09):
or tools her team desperately needed.
Little did we know that within amonth and a half, her words would
take on an even deeper significance.
As fires ravaged communities likePacific Palisades, reservoirs
ran dry, fire hydrants failed,and lives were changed forever.
(01:31):
Chief Crowley faced intense criticismin the aftermath, particularly for
publicly addressing her department'sthree years of budget cuts.
Some accused her of deflecting blame.
Others saw her as a leader speakinghard truths in an impossible situation.
Today, we revisit that Novemberconversation recorded before the
(01:52):
fires where Chief Crowley revealedher maverick move in the making.
It's a testament to the complexitiesof leadership under pressure.
So let's dive in.
Welcome to the show, Chief Crowley.
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here andhave some time with you to talk.
(02:14):
Great.
Uh, we know all of the highlights of youramazing career, um, being the first female
fire chief in the city of Los Angeles.
Can you give us a little background asto how you got started in this wonderful
community oriented career that you have?
Absolutely.
And you know, my journey is really unique.
Uh, I honestly did not knowanything about the fire service.
(02:37):
I'm originally from the Midwest.
I'm a Green Bay gal. So from GreenBay, Wisconsin, and there's my accent.
It kind of came out, but I'vebeen out in LA for over 30 years.
And originally, um, I was astudent athlete my entire life.
And had a knee injury.
I played soccer and basketballin college and tore my ACL.
I was like, okay, you know, I, I startedto move towards orthopedic surgery.
(03:02):
And I love that.
I thought that's, that's my calling.
And so started, uh, testing for differentor getting ready for the MCAT, I
should say, and applying to differentmedical schools when I moved out to LA.
And lo and behold, everybody in myclass wanted to become a firefighter.
And I was like, what is the bigdeal about this firefighting thing?
So I decided to move forward and got myEMT, my Emergency Medical Technician,
(03:26):
and then moved towards a paramedic.
And again, everybody in paramedicschool wanted to be a firefighter,
and what's the big deal?
You talk about those opportunitiesthat kind of come before you if
you pay attention, and that'sexactly what happened to me.
Super focused.
Uh, that's just how my mind works.
And I was like, I am on my way applyingto medical schools and I'm focused.
(03:47):
And when it came to doing our internshipsand said, okay, who wants to go to LA
city and do their paramedic ride outs?
Nobody in my class raised their hand.
And I was like, why isnobody raising their hand?
I'm going to raise my hand.
So I raised my hand tall and proud.
And they said, you do notwant to go to LA city.
That is a really toughenvironment for a woman first and
(04:07):
foremost, let alone a paramedic.
And I was like, no, I I'm in,put me there, put me in coach
is, was my, my, my mentality.
So I ended up doing my internshipand literally within a half hour.
Uh, being in the fire station, Ijust thought, wow, this is exactly
what I'm supposed to be doing.
And it fell right into place.
And here I am, good 25 yearslater, the fire chief of Los
(04:31):
Angeles City Fire Department.
That's a great story.
What were the voices inside yourhead that made you want to make
that leap and step outside of yourcomfort zone and come out to LA?
I tell you, uh, it was just theexposure being from the Midwest.
It was such an incredibleplace to grow up.
I loved it.
Small community, great schools,really amazing family, and my
(04:56):
sister actually lived out here.
Of course, being in the Midwest, uh,with all the cold weather, when you don't
know any better is what I like to say.
I would come out and visit her.
I was like, okay, that's,that's where we want to be.
And that was a big leap at two weeksafter I graduated, moved out with
some friends and we didn't have jobs.
We just, uh, other than me knowingthat, okay, I'm going to start
getting, uh, ready for medical school.
(05:18):
And that was my focus.
So drove out here and, andbeen out here since 1993.
That's terrific.
So what was it like for you back thencompared to what you're seeing now?
Wow.
What, what a great question.
Things have changed a lot.
And just, just in general, thinkabout that in 1993, when I moved
(05:41):
out here, um, I was hired in 98 andwent through the fire academy in 99.
And I tell you, um, a lotof things have changed.
I mean, just, In general, a lot of thingshave changed in society, but when it comes
to the fire service, wow, I think backto where it was definitely an anomaly.
Uh, being a woman, uh, therewas 50 people in my class.
(06:04):
Two of us were women, both of us,uh, graduated and were successful.
You think about, well, what staysthe same and what's different?
We're still struggling within the fireservice to look for qualified, uh, women.
mindset, have the physicalcapability of becoming a firefighter.
And that's what hasn't changed.
(06:24):
I can tell you that we are still pushingforward and driving to figure out ways,
how we can prepare women for the job.
Our department is still at, we're justabout, uh, three and a half, almost 4
percent women on our entire department.
And that's actually where we were.
25 years ago, which is really interesting.
And now that I'm in the seat, youknow, it's like, what has changed?
(06:46):
What's the different mindset?
Certainly it's top of mind, but it takes avery strong, calculated, focused approach
on, you know, what type of people wewant to bring into the organization.
So a lot has changed, honestly, but alot is, has actually stayed the same.
So being from the three and a half to 4%,um, which is, you know, Shocking in 2024,
(07:12):
you know, um, I mean, I, I remember whenI was in the army back in the eighties,
you know, I think 10 percent of the womenwere soldiers and I thought there aren't
a little out of women around here, soI would imagine that in any given day,
you're the only one, or you're one ofvery few walking around the stations.
Absolutely.
And that's, that's kind of how it was,um, coming up through the ranks within
(07:34):
our department and people always ask me,what is, what was it like, or what is it
like, uh, being with the fire department?
And mind you, a lot of otherlarge organizations have
very, very similar numbers.
On a national average, it's about5 percent women in career, uh,
types of, uh, fire departments.
So I often say, you know, being a womanon the job within the fire service,
(07:57):
the eyes are always on you, but they'realways on you a little bit longer.
And what I noticed starting right out ofthe fire academy, let alone going through
a year of probation, let alone, Yes, youhit it spot on being the only woman in
entire battalion in a battalion, maybe,you know, seven to 12 to 14 stations
(08:19):
and you could be the only woman in theentire battalion, let alone your station.
So, uh, that's just kind of how itwas coming up through the ranks, but.
I just kind of took that head on of,of understanding and having the mindset
that I have a tremendous amount aseverybody else on this department to
contribute in a lot of different ways.
(08:40):
We absolutely all have our strengthsand weaknesses and it doesn't
matter what industry you're in.
But what helped me throughout my careeris having a strong sense of purpose
and being comfortable in my skin.
And also just pushing forward andmaking sure that honestly, you know,
I felt like I'm going to work harder.
(09:01):
I'm going to actually outpace everybody.
I'm going to work harder.
I'm going to learn my job.
I'm going to learn and understandhow to train others around me.
Set that, uh, example to everybodyat what it's like to be somebody
who's full in and understands howimportant this job is to the community.
So I also had to learn howto turn down that noise.
(09:24):
And I think that when we all take abig step back, it's that self doubt.
I certainly, uh, for sure had that andstill have it, uh, throughout my career,
but I learned a way to turn that down.
And with that, I think, you know, there'sso many other obstacles that can be
placed in our way, uh, and challengesthat I just felt like, I'm not, I'm going
(09:44):
to make sure I get out of my own way.
And by that, you turn on thenoise and you figure out a way.
It's like, okay, how do youcapitalize on these opportunities?
How do you jump in and be that firstone to say, yeah, yeah, I'll do it.
I'm in, you know, and then youjust become so valuable to that
team that now everybody's like,wow, now you're the go to person.
And that's kind of what I carriedwith me throughout my entire career.
(10:08):
And it's actually workedreally, really well.
That's terrific.
So what's the secret inturning off that noise?
I think first and foremost, it's beingaware that that is something that is real.
And that is something thatyou can actually control.
And by, by turning down the selfdoubt and the noises, you know, when
(10:30):
you have that self doubt and say, ah,I'm not sure if I have what it takes.
I definitely gotchallenged in the academy.
I mean, being a student athlete playingtwo sports in college, I mean, I was
very, and still am very, very competitive,but I tell you, I am very small in
stature, I'm five, five with my boots on.
And that expectation is, uh, for me to beable to do the same job as anybody else.
(10:53):
this job.
So I had to figure out away that worked for me.
And that self doubt absolutely crept in.
But I learned that very early on.
It's like, okay, this is not helping.
So how do I push through it?
And the way I push through it issetting yourself up for success.
Meaning are there other opportunitiesto help me shore up in areas that
(11:14):
I don't feel so confident in?
How can I get myself out thereso that I'm going to learn it?
I'm going to move past it.
And then in the end, actually,people, like I said, look to you
for that assistance, or they look toyou to provide them some strength.
So I think that's how I, when I lookback on it, that's how I was able
(11:34):
to work through those times wherethat noise in my head was loud.
And I just, you know, Turned it downand said, okay, I got to focus on what
I need to get done and how I can improveand how I can provide, you know, a
large amount of contributions to thepeople around me so that they can see
it's like, wow, she knows her job.
(11:54):
She's competent.
Uh, she's earned the respectof others around her.
And that, again, I just look back on thatand that's how I was able to push through.
Man, that's great advice.
Well, as I look at your bio, I wasso impressed at the fact when you
talk about climbing the ladder tosuccess, and we're going to use a
little firefighting jargon here.
(12:16):
I mean, you hit every singlesolitary rung on your way to success.
While you were promoting being,you know, someone who is different
within this male dominated field.
How was that?
I mean, how did you feel as youwere promoting step after step after
step after step, and how did peopletreat you while you were doing that?
(12:39):
Yeah, that was absolutelypurposeful and that was the mindset.
I kind of talked about my backgroundand, you know, one and two initially
thinking that my, my career journeywas going to be in medicine.
And the mindset was even as aphysician, like that's what kind
of drew me to it was, I know I'mConstantly have to be learning new
(13:01):
things, new techniques, medications,better ways, safer ways to do the job.
And that just translated over perfectlywhen I decided I made that decision.
It's like, okay, if I'm not goingto medical school, Then this fire
service career of mine is a choice.
It's something that I knewwould continually push me.
(13:24):
I would want to continuallypush myself into a new position.
Once I became comfortable in my ownskin and what I mean by comfortable
in my own skin, I felt like promisedmyself that I would never, ever,
ever, ever become complacent.
And by being complacent, I meant like,Oh, once I'm comfortable, I'm good.
(13:44):
I'm just going to kind of kickback and relax and I'm good.
I just, I don't think I'm wired that way.
So it wouldn't have mattered.
I think where I landed in any typeof career, but with the fire service,
that's what was so, um, intriguing to mebecause I felt alone, like I said, with
my stature, I'm gonna have to continuallymake sure that I'm taking care of
(14:05):
myself, that I can physically do the job.
And on top of that, there's so manyincredible opportunities to, especially
with the Los Angeles city fire department.
We're huge.
We're one, we're the third largestdepartment in the nation, serving the
second largest city, 106 fire stations.
So that was like anopen playground for me.
(14:27):
I felt like, wow, think about theopportunities, how much I have to
learn my job, how Once I got tothat point, that was my pivot point.
I'm like, okay, what's next?
Is it in the field?
Do I go to a different assignment?
Do I go to like a staff assignmentthat can help me make great decisions?
And then whatever's going to help mecontinue to grow and push and learn.
That's exactly the trackthat I, that I took.
(14:50):
Um, and, and purposeful, right?
From already being a paramedic,that was a huge headstart.
And then being a firefighter,moving on to engineer.
Moving on to inspire inspector,captain one, captain two, battalion
chief, assistant chief, deputy chief,chief deputy, and then fire chief.
So the other purposeful thing was Ididn't want anybody ever question where
(15:15):
and how I got to where I was with that.
It's like, okay, if I continue to push anddrive and then I promote, and then guess
what, I have to start all over again.
And that was actually intriguing tome because I was like, all right,
I got a blank slate Now, I got toprove myself all over again, which
was actually pretty motivating to me.
And then from that point, Ilook for that next opportunity
(15:37):
to, uh, to learn and grow.
So you talk a little bitabout the internal noise.
Was there any external noise thattried to slow you down during all of
those promotions and rising to the top?
Yes.
There, there is.
I think that's common everywhere.
Absolutely.
I mean, the, the int and that's, Ikind of alluded to that a little bit
(15:58):
earlier where what you can controlis what you can't control and that's
what's going through your head.
So first and foremost, I needed to figureout a way to push through that and turn
down the noise on the outside for sure.
There's opportunities when you startnew and nobody knows who you are.
There's biases all over the place, butwhen it came, pushed, come came to shove.
(16:23):
The mindset was my peers aroundme or supervisor around me.
That mindset that I talked aboutearlier, I'm going to outpace everybody.
I want to outwork everybody.
I want to make sure that I'm outthere learning the job and earning
the credibility and the competency.
Once I got to that point, that those,uh, external, like, like you said,
(16:44):
uh, external noise that was out therewas, was either shut down and, or
you turn that person into an ally.
And I found that time and time andtime again, the eyes were on me.
They're on me a little bit longer,but once they saw that work ethic and
the mindset that I was bringing tothe team, they're kind of like, wow,
(17:04):
I got to get out of her way, right?
Or I'm here to help her or whatever.
But I also want to bemindful that there were.
More than a handful of times in my careerwhere, yeah, things weren't always so
great, uh, just from statements or, orthings that happened in and around me.
And I had to learn reallyearly on in the job.
(17:26):
And this happened very early on with,um, oh gosh, uh, about three years on the
job and, and something happened and wherea supervisor just kind of came forward.
And I tell this story becauseit really helped shape.
My ability to create, let's just sayhealthy boundaries with what I'm going to
(17:48):
actually accept, uh, the type of treatmentand what I'm not going to accept.
And it happened really early on.
And I'll just tell this story really quickwhere we had a, had a captain in my fire
station who was newer, but it was just abig bully and everybody was scared of him.
I'm the only woman thereagain in my battalion.
(18:09):
He comes in and really changes thedynamics of our entire fire station.
I had already been there a number ofyears and all the, my fellow firefighters
around me, they were like, you know,it's like having 14 brothers and he
came in, really changed the environment.
We're sitting down in lineup and that'sjust when we get together in the morning,
(18:29):
we go over new material, we talk aboutwhat's going to happen for the day.
And this is what he said verbatim.
He said, you know, there's,there's three things I hate in the
fire station, hand lotion, hairdryers, and female firefighters.
Oh wow.
And he said it in front of my brothers.
And I thought, I just sat there for amoment and I, I didn't want to overreact.
(18:52):
I just, I took it in.
And I looked around andnobody said anything.
They were all afraid of him.
He just went on and we finished lineup.
And after that, I had one of my, uh,more senior members come up to me and
he said, ah, Kristin, do you want me to,do you want me to say something to him?
And I said, no, I got it.
He looked at me.
(19:12):
You should have seen his face.
They didn't know what was going to happen.
And again, this was with threeyears on the job and had already
proven myself to my crew.
And I was like, all right, thisis my time to do something.
So I didn't lose my mind.
I didn't allow myself toget emotional about it.
I just took a deep breath.
And he said, are you sure?
I said, no, I got it.
(19:33):
And everybody was on pins and needles.
They thought I wasgoing to call the chief.
They thought I was gonna, youknow, uh, make everybody get
detailed out of the station.
And I said, no, I got it.
Just only walked into the front office.
Shut the door behind me.
And you could not have heard a pin drop.
Everybody was like, Oh mygosh, what's going to happen.
And I just, uh, had a very candidconversation with them, approached
(19:55):
them in a very, just calm manner andlaid it out and what I said, I said
his name and I said, I need you tounderstand this and I need you to
hear me and my words, what happenedin lineup was absolutely unacceptable
and it better not happen again.
And he was quiet and he lookedat me, never apologized.
(20:19):
And all he said with his boots upon the desk was, okay, that was it.
Turned around, walked out.
And guess what happened after that?
Nothing.
Right.
He didn't ever do it again.
He understood exactly where I stood.
So when those situations happenthroughout the rest of my career, I
(20:40):
think that that actually was carriedwith me because the members understood,
wow, she's going to handle business.
She's going to stick up for herself.
She's going to do it in a way that istotally appropriate and just confront
the situation and not lose her mind.
And that's exactly what I did.
And I learned how to do it.
I don't know why I did it.
(21:01):
I don't know how I did it.
I just knew it wassomething that I had to do.
And that is all about setting boundaries.
And, and really it depends on thescenario, but with that particular
scenario, that's exactly, I knewthat's exactly what I needed to do.
At that point, there was no issues andI think the members also were like,
wow, I don't, I don't know if theywould have had the courage to do that.
(21:23):
So they looked at it and like,wow, okay, she handled it.
And then I carried that withme the rest of my career.
Yeah.
That is a great example of how settingboundaries, I mean, throughout the rest
of your career because you did it onceand that was the expectation of how
you were going to handle your business.
Right.
And it goes a long way.
And sometimes, and even for theindividuals listening in, it's like,
(21:47):
you can kind of preload yourself,like, give yourself situations.
If you find yourself in that situationand you've already thought about it,
then you, you can, you can actually havea game plan and you won't react, right?
You don't have to reactthe wrong way or whatever.
So you can actually set yourself up.
And sometimes you can'teven imagine the situation.
scenario that you may be in, butit's okay to take a deep breath.
(22:09):
It's okay to kind of collect yourself.
Uh, but in the end, it's like, you know,those boundaries are so, so important,
especially if you find yourself ina situation where, you know, you're
going to have to create the boundaries.
So the members know exactly, youknow, where are you, where are
you, um, and what you're going tostand up for, um, including, you
(22:32):
know, what your own boundariesare and people need to know that.
Mm hmm this season we're talkingabout making maverick moves.
Was there a time in your careerwhere you've made this maverick
move where you've had to pick a pillthat you are willing to die on in
order to move on with your career?
(22:53):
Oh, that is such a fantastic question.
And the Maverick moves, um,there, there are situations.
I just think back over the last 25years where you're at a jumping off
point and you have to make a decision.
Either it's like in the military,as you know, it's like a go or
no go where, and how are yougoing to put yourself out there?
(23:14):
And really, what are yougoing to stand up for?
I tell you, being in the fire chief'sposition, it's coming up on my
third year, which would be in March.
And there's so.
Many situations that I find myself in,and it is an absolute honor every single
day, I think, and I wake up and I justthink to myself, like, what an amazing
(23:36):
opportunity to be able to represent themen and women of our organization that do.
Absolute amazing things every single day.
And it's up to me to advocateand to fight for the things that
our people need to do their jobs.
And I find myself right now,currently in a position where
(23:58):
you talk about a Maverick move.
When budgets are tight and we haveto make some really, really tough
decisions in regard to how we'regoing to operate and how we're going
to be able to provide services to 3
8 million people in thecity of Los Angeles.
And when things get tight, the, theMaverick move is it's happening as we
(24:20):
speak, Gina, and I'll just describethis feeling that I'm having right now.
And the city is in a, in a,in a budget crunch right now.
When it comes to my position as the chiefof advocating and fighting for the safety
and well being of our firefighters, that'smy job to stand up and to say the fire
(24:42):
department can no longer operate this way.
We're understaffed, underresourced, and underfunded.
And a lot of the times, that's justlike, ah, you know, are you really?
I mean, our Los Angeles CityFire Department, is in, uh,
we're literally at a crossroads.
So the Maverick move is meto stand up and say the fire
(25:02):
department can no longer do this.
And that's a pretty uncomfortableposition to be in, especially when
the fire department, especially theLos Angeles City Fire Department
is in a position where we take moreon, we take more on, we take more
on, but at what cost to our people?
And so the Maverick move, Uh, right nowit's, it's happening as we speak, Gina.
(25:24):
So it's my job to stand up and to, tofight the fight for what our people
need when it comes to the saying thatwe use is everybody goes home and
everybody's got to go home to theirfamilies at the end of their shifts.
So the Maverick move, I'm standing upand I got to fight the fight to get our
people what they need to do their jobs.
And even now you're dealing with somany different things besides the
(25:49):
fires, you know, you're dealing withthe homeless population and, and all of
the things that are, that you have torespond to with, I mean, there's so many
things that are happening in the city.
You're probably doing so many morethings now than you ever did before.
Yes, we're, we're busierthan we ever have.
And now that the LAFD has been around for138 years, I tell you that the caliber
(26:12):
of people that take on this mission,just either from the first responder
side or the military side, there's somany, uh, and, and the law enforcement
side, I should say is our counterparts.
It takes really, really special groupof people that take on this mission.
Each and every day and where our peopleare putting their lives on the line.
(26:32):
They're putting others.
in front of themselves, they'resacrificing and their families
are sacrificing every single day.
So we're busier than we've ever been,um, within the city of Los Angeles.
And you hit on a couple points from thefires to, you know, assisting the city
with the unhoused population, We ran over500, 000 calls in 2023 and we're actually
(26:56):
on pace to run even more in 2024 withless personnel than we had 10 years ago
to be able to stand up and communicateand have strategies and innovations
and efficiencies are really important.
You just can't stand up and complain.
You got to have some strong strategiesmoving forward of how we can be more
(27:16):
efficient with what we've got, but alsoto have the courage to stand up and say,
hey, we can't maintain this anymore.
So we have to be really smart,really calculated in what types
of services the LEFD can continue.
to provide and because we are spreadvery, very, very thin and we're
focusing back on our core fundamentalsof emergency services and fire
(27:39):
and emergency medical services.
And that's, that's our core mission,core fundamentals of who we are.
So, you know, we have to recalibrateand that's okay, but we can't
keep doing more with less.
And, uh, so we're just goingto be super smart about it.
So what are the consequences?
Every Maverick move has a consequence.
So what is the consequencefor you taking on this fight?
(28:03):
Yeah, so it's, it's, the consequencesare And it's not, not a really
comfortable position to be in, right?
You make these maverick moves.
And I'm sure as you talk to otherpeople, like you said, there's
consequences to everything.
And if you're willing to takesomething on, and this is where
we are, this is our reality.
So the consequences are ourservice delivery model is going
(28:23):
to look a little different.
Uh, the way that we provide serviceswhen somebody calls 911, if it, if it's
not quite to the level of, of whereand what and how we utilize our limited
resources, then we have to come up withother solutions of utilizing other types
of services within the city, somethingthat's not emergency, something that might
(28:44):
take a little bit more time to get thereversus the normal way we'd send a fire
engine, a fire truck, or an ambulance,to provide a low level type of service.
And that's a consequence.
It's like, okay, we can't keep doingit because we have limited resources.
So our service delivery.
Has got to change andthat's uncomfortable, right?
It's, it's easy for us to justkeep doing it and keep doing it.
(29:06):
But I tell you, we're at that tippingpoint, um, when it comes to taking care
of our people and you know, what arethe consequences of, of our own actions?
If we keep doing the same thing.
And I tell you, ourfirefighters are tired.
Our firefighters are getting injured.
Our firefighters are makingmistakes because of their fatigue.
So something's got to give andyou know, that's the maverick
(29:28):
move that we just talked about.
It's like, okay, we've gotto do things different.
We've got to take care of our people.
We have to continue to serve thecommunities, uh, and the public,
but it's going to look, it'sgoing to look a little different.
There's when you look at leaders, youknow, I'm sure if you go back and think
about all of the leaders that you havehad, the majority of leaders kind of
(29:50):
lean toward the status quo, especiallyin such a high profile position that,
that you have probably be a lot easierjust to say, okay, you know what, we're
just going to continue to do it all.
But it sounds like thisis more of a moral stand.
It is.
Absolutely.
And you're spot on.
And you know, it seems kindof like, Oh, you know, we're
(30:11):
going to challenge status quo.
It's true.
Right?
So we've had a service delivery modelfor a long, long, long, long time.
And we haven't necessarily changed it.
We don't have any moreresources coming to us.
So we got to do things different.
And I think it's actually prettyrefreshing when I go around and visit
stations and talk to our members, wetalk about the strategies, you know,
(30:35):
our members, they're, they're lookingfor leadership and they're looking
for a leader that'll stand up andnot just throw your hands up and, you
know, just get upset about things.
It's like, we've got to put ourheads together and be more efficient
in how we Deliver our service.
And there's ways to do that.
And even being okay to stand upand I'm the, actually the first
paramedic fire chief in thehistory of our entire department.
(30:58):
Wow.
So I definitely come in with a uniquemindset of what we do 81 percent of
the time is emergency medical services.
So it's okay for us to look atthat and go, okay, what else and
how else can we provide emergencymedical services and continue to do
what we're doing on the fire side?
And that's where we canget super, super creative.
(31:19):
We're created new types ofservice delivery where it's
a fast response vehicle.
It's got two people on it, not four.
We've got advanced practitioner unitswith physician assistants and nurse
practitioners on it that can actuallyprovide a higher level of care.
So those are the things that like,yeah, we're absolutely challenging
(31:39):
status quo because there's probably,and I'm actually not probably, there is
in fact, I'm certain a better Servicedelivery model out there and in the
end we're going to be safer And we'regoing to be able to provide a higher
level of service to the city of la Sowhat advice do you have for leaders?
Out there who are listening Who aresort of in a similar scenario and
(32:04):
they're at this cusp of having tomake a maverick move I think the, any
Maverick move, you don't want to do anytype of a knee jerk reaction, right?
Cause you, we talked about itearlier, like what, what are
those unanticipated consequences?
We've got to think about that.
So my advice would be make sure you'renot making a decision in a silo, right?
(32:28):
Cause when you're in that leadershipposition, um, and that's, that's
the beauty of being in this positionand reminding myself every single
day, there's zero ego in this.
And that's refreshing to a lot ofpeople because there's no other agenda
other than taking care of our peopleand taking care of the community.
So my advice would be, make surethat you're collaborating, that
(32:52):
you're talking, you're using otherpeople outside of your inner circles.
Before, if you've got that timeframebefore you make these Maverick
moves, because you have to look atit from so many different angles.
I've already learned with some maybesmaller Maverick moves that I've had
to make in, you know, the over twoand a half years I've been in the seat
(33:13):
and not everything has been perfect.
So you just adjust to it.
It's like, okay, well,that didn't go as planned.
So, wow, I need to talk to more peoplebefore I make a big move and it's okay to
look yourself in the mirror and go, okay.
Um, that didn't go well, or thatdidn't go how I thought it would go.
Don't dig your heels in.
You can always, always,always make an adjustment.
(33:36):
Um, and on top of that, before you makethe decision, make sure that you're
looking at it from multiple angles andyou've got, uh, people that you trust
in your inner circle, but then alsobounce that off of, uh, people that
can give you a different perspective.
And then you can really minimize thoseimpacts that you weren't thinking about.
(33:56):
Thank you, Chief Crowley,for being on this show.
You've just epitomized theauthentic leadership and you're
such an innovative thinker.
We are really happy and proudto have you as our fire chief.
Well, thank you so much, Gina.
Really appreciate theopportunity to speak with you.
And wow, looking forward toseeing what else we can do.
(34:19):
That was Chief Crowley back in November,issuing a warning before the firestorm.
She saw the dangerahead, sounded the alarm.
And fought to be heard,but no one listened.
When we come back, we'lldive into what happened next.
How Chief Crowley refused to back downduring the 2025 California wildfires,
(34:42):
and made her boldest Maverick move yet.
Looking for a keynote speakerwho redefines leadership?
Meet Gina L. Osborne.
As a U. S. Army Cold War spy catcherand FBI Special Agent Executive,
she knows what it takes to leadthrough chaos, crisis, and change.
(35:02):
Her secret?
Making maverick moves.
Bold, fearless strategies thatbreak barriers and shatter limits.
If you want your audience to thinkbigger, Lead stronger and own every room.
Gina delivers Book Gina l Osbornetoday and unleash the maverick
(35:23):
mindset at your next event.
Visit gina l osborne.com/making.
Maverick moves.
Welcome back.
Last year, mayor Karen Bass.
Cut the fire department Fiscal year 2024.
2025.
Budget according to ChiefCrowley by $17 million.
Making her maverick move, ChiefCrowley wrote a memo to the mayor
(35:47):
and the city council in December,stating these budgetary reductions have
adversely affected the department'sability to maintain core operations.
By early January, Thewildfires ravaged Los Angeles.
Fast forward to today and we've seenthe consequences play out in real time.
(36:11):
Over 40, 000 acres burned, 16, 000structures lost, 29 lives taken too soon.
When Mayor Karen Bass stood at the podiumin the midst of the crisis, detailing
the budget cuts, she said, there wereno reductions that were made that would
(36:31):
have impacted the situation we weredealing with over the last couple of days.
Chief Crowley knew shecouldn't stay silent.
She made the ultimate maverickmove, stepping in front
of the cameras on Fox 11.
NBC, CNN, and CBS to speak her truth.
(36:52):
My message is the fire departmentneeds to be properly funded.
And it's not.
It's not at this point.
And we've got the justification.
We know where our gaps in service are.
We know we need 62 new fire stations.
We need to double thesize of our firefighters.
The growth of this city.
Since 1960 has doubled andwe have less fire stations.
She didn't just point fingers.
(37:14):
She laid out the facts.
The L. A. City Fire Department runs1, 500 calls a day and conducts
650 daily patient transfers.
Fire service calls doubled since2010 resulting in a 55 percent
increase with 68 fewer firefighters.
(37:35):
I do believe if we would have setourselves up appropriately over
the past three years, we would havebeen in a better position of what
had happened here in the city wherewe lost homes and we lost lives.
And when asked if the cityhad failed her, she said yes.
Those three letters shook the city.
(37:58):
Some called it courageous, achief standing up for her troops
in the face of one of the worsturban firestorms in history.
Others called it a desperate act,even reducing her to a DEI hire.
But leadership isn't about titles,accolades, or playing it safe.
It's about standing in the fire,sometimes literally, when the
(38:21):
stakes are at their highest.
It's about making tough calls, speakinghard truths, and holding the line,
even when the world pushes back.
Chief Kristin Crowley embodiesthat kind of leadership.
She didn't just climb the ranks.
She earned every step, foughtfor every resource, and stood
(38:43):
tall when it mattered most.
When the fires raged and the cityneeded answers, she didn't shrink back.
She stepped forward.
She spoke up.
She led.
Making maverick moves requires courage,not just to take risks, but to endure the
backlash, the doubt, and the cynicism fromthose watching safely from the sidelines.
(39:07):
It's easy to criticize fromthe comfort of the crowd.
It's easy to take pot shots at thegladiator in the arena, the one
who's bloodied and bruised, doingwhat so many others wouldn't dare.
Theodore Roosevelt once said,it is not the critic who counts.
The credit belongs to the manwho is actually in the arena.
(39:30):
Whose face is marred bydust, and sweat, and blood.
Who at the best, knows in the end,the triumph of high achievement.
And who at the worst, ifhe fails, at least fails.
While daring greatly, the chiefCrowley and every leader who
refuses to sit on the sidelines.
Thank you.
(39:51):
Thank you for stepping into the arena.
Thank you for daringgreatly until next time.
Stay bold, stay relentless andkeep making maverick moves.
Making maverick moves with Gina L. Osborneis produced and edited by Lisa Osborne.
(40:14):
Theme music, Maverick Heart, is byretired IRS criminal investigative
attaché, Clarissa Balmesita.
Additional audio heard in this episodecourtesy of Fox 11 Los Angeles.
Connect with us on socialmedia through GinaLOsborn.
com/ Making Maverick Moves.
And don't miss an episode.
(40:34):
Subscribe to Making Maverick Moveswherever you get your podcasts.
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