July 7, 2025 • 33 mins
Follow Gina: https://www.instagram.com/ginalosborn/
Special thanks to Amanda Selogie at Inclusive Education Project, Aldair Perez at Storm mma, and Michelle McDuffie at The Johnson Academy for their support.
When Tamme Smith’s son, Thomas, was bullied, excluded, and physically attacked in middle school, she refused to stay silent. Instead, she wrote a bold, emotional letter to the parents of the bullies—and posted it online. That letter went viral.
In this powerful episode of Making Maverick Moves, Tamme shares her family's journey through pain, advocacy, and healing. From a school system that failed her son to the unexpected hero—a boxing coach named Aldair—who helped Thomas regain his confidence, this story will inspire every parent, educator, and student who’s ever felt alone.
Timestamps:
00:00 – The letter that exposed the truth
01:50 – “I couldn’t get him to go to school”
04:36 – Excluded by his own friends
06:55 – School hears the reports—but does nothing
09:01 – Thomas’ neurodiversity: dyslexia and more
11:17 – A boxing coach offers Thomas his power back
17:58 – Beaten in the bathroom: the final straw
21:09 – Testing reveals academic failure
24:47 – Tamme’s viral open letter to the bullies’ parents
29:03 – Her message to parents everywhere
31:21 – Thomas’ bond with his mentor, Aldair
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
When Tammy Smith's seventh gradeson Thomas was targeted,
humiliated and physicallyattacked at school for being different.
She didn't just go to the school board.
She wrote an open letter to the parents
of the bulliesand posted it on social media.
Her words weren't just powerful.
(00:20):
They were honest,heartbreaking, and courageous.
In a world where silence is often easier,Tammy made a maverick move.
Today, she's here to tell her storyand to speak up for every child
who's ever felt alone, excludedor broken by bullying.
This is an episode about pain, resilience,
(00:43):
and a mother's refusal to stay quiet.
My name is GinaL Osborn and I'm an Army veteran.
I spent six years during the end of theCold War as a counterintelligence agent.
I was appointed as an FBI agent,and during my 22 year
career, worked everythingfrom Asian organized crime to terrorism.
(01:05):
I became the assistant special agentin charge of cyber and computer forensics.
And then I came out of retirementand spent two years
as the safety and security officerat la metro.
Now I'm here to helpyou make your maverick move.
Welcome to the show, Tammy.
Thank you so much, Tammy.
When I heard your story.
(01:25):
Yeah, it broke my heart.
So tell us
what caused you to write a letter
to the parents of the kidswho are bullying your son?
Thomas?
Middle school staff for everyone.
It's really tough.
(01:46):
But it was especially tough on my sonThomas.
Seventh grade was a nightmare.
I couldn't get him to go to school.
I couldn't get him to stay at school.
Sorry.
We just couldn'tfigure out what was happening.
His friends dropped him.
He was choked on the playground,
(02:08):
like at lunch timeby a random sixth grader.
So a younger student,he's made fun of constantly.
He didn't have anyone to eat lunch with.
He was beat up in the bathroom.
And on social media, I was noticingthat it was the end of the year.
And so all these wonderful parentswere making these awesome posts
(02:32):
about how wonderfultheir child's last year at school was.
Right.
And Johnny didthis, and Sarah did that, and I love it.
I love to see all that.
But that isn't the case for everyone'sschool year, right?
And it was especially not the casefor Thomas.
So even though this is my privatesocial media account,
(02:53):
it was kind of cathartic for me to
just throw it out thereand let our friends and family know
that here's the real truth ofwhat happened to our son in seventh grade.
And it was terrible.
So I thought, how do I do this toI just like, say, here it is.
This is what happened to our kid?
(03:15):
Or do I write a letter to themand just say, here it is.
This is what happened to Thomas.
And I truly hope that all of their kids
did have a great year,but my son was tortured.
So before you get to that point.
Because
(03:36):
bullying whether it's cyber bullying
or physical bullyingthat Thomas went through.
You know bullying is bullyingwhere there is a victim.
Sometimesthe victim will tell their parents.
Sometimes they won't. So walk us through.
What was it like for you when you startedto notice that something was different?
(03:57):
So his group of friends,
I had just started noticing
there was a dance that had come upand there was a parent permission slip,
and Thomas handed me the permission slipand I said, are your buddies going?
And he said, oh, I don't know, mom.
And I'm like, do you want me to reach outto the moms and see if they're going?
(04:18):
Because boys don't really communicateright?
So, I reached out to the momsand I heard from one of them,
and she had said,oh, I don't think they're going.
So I'm like, oh, okay, Thomas,I guess they're not going.
So I'm like,do you still want to go by yourself?
No, mom,I don't want to go by myself. Okay.
(04:39):
So the day that the permissionslip was due, Thomas came home from school
and said that at lunch time,
he watched his two, quote unquote, friendstake their signed permission slips
out of their backpackstogether and walk to the ASB office
to turn in their permission slips.
(05:00):
And I said,they never said anything to you.
And he said, no. I said,did you say something to them?
And he's like, well,I didn't know what to say.
So I reached back out to the momsand said, hey,
I didn't know that the boys were going.
And we just found out today.
And one of the moms said, oh,he can still turn in the permission slip
(05:20):
today trying to cover it up and I've said,no, there are it's already do.
It's past the deadline now so he can't go.
And now he actually doesn'treally want to go.
Who would want to goif you're not included. Right.
And these are your friends.
And if your friends don't want you there,then what are you supposed to do?
So I started noticing things like that,
(05:42):
and there was a daythat they got out of school
early, and I happened to be at the mall,and I saw that
same group of boys with their whole crew,and my son was at home.
So again, he wasn't included.
And then I started asking him, like,who are you hanging out with at lunch?
And he's like,I'm trying to hang out with them,
(06:03):
but they're not wanting to hang outwith me anymore.
They started calling him namesand making fun of him.
And when that happens at any school,it, like, spreads like wildfire, right?
So we started contacting the schooland asking them, you know, hey,
can you give us a little support herebecause we're not sure what's going on?
And is theresomeone Thomas can talk to about this?
(06:26):
And. Oh, yeah, when there's an incidentat school, then go ahead
and make sure Thomas talksto an adult on campus.
So, when incidents would occur, he'd
either be left out or be called names,or he was threatened in the hallways.
He did just that.
He would go to the school officials,tell them what happened.
Well,then they would bring those other boys
(06:49):
in for investigatingto find out what happened.
And they did.
What most teenagers do is lie.
You know,no one's going to really tell the truth.
So nothing would happen.
Thomas would still feeluncomfortable at school.
Then he started really having nobodyto have lunch with,
and they started teasing himand calling him names.
(07:11):
The R-word, which I don't like.
They called him stupid.
And he just kept telling me, like,I have no friends at school,
and everybody makes fun of mewhen I'm their mom.
Yeah.
And then he kept being teased.
And then that last incident ofhe was literally choked
(07:32):
on the playground at lunch,and it was the principal
who pried herhands off of that sixth graders neck.
And I don't even knowif anything happened to that kid.
Like,parents aren't being called in anymore
to have conferences with each otherso that everyone knows what's going on.
(07:52):
I'm not sure
what their behavior consequences are,but it always just seemed
that they were right back at schoolthe next day.
Any time that that happened.
And then they were constantlyretaliating against Thomas.
Right now, Thomas has a target on his backand there's nothing you can do about it.
So the school was sayingthere has to be an incident before
(08:14):
they'll do somethingabout it. Correct? Right.
Or they had to have all the factsand everybody's story had to line up.
Well, if you get a group of kids,
you really think their storiesare going to line up?
Probably not.
One of the remedies, at one time,the administration had suggested
for Thomasto spend his school day in the office,
(08:36):
so that would be more of a punishmentfor him.
Right? Where?
Okay, he's being bullied and attackedand ridiculed on campus.
But to keep him safe, you'rejust going to put him in the office, which
we didn't feel the thought was necessarilygood for Thomas's mental health either.
Right. Sure.
Well, and Thomas Thomas,he has dyslexia. Yes.
(09:00):
So that adds an entire other elementto this thing.
When you are neurodiverse,your brain is different,
so your processing is different.
How you articulate can be different.
And Thomas has dyslexic.
He has dysgraphia and dyscalculia.
So it's all three forms of dyslexiais reading his writing and math.
(09:24):
And he also has auditory processing.
If you were to see him or meet him.
And I wish he was here today.
You wouldn't necessarily know.
But sometimes he says
things backwards or it doesn't come outthe way that he intended.
So that's hard for him to trying tocome home and communicate what happened.
And then now he'sbeing in front of all these
(09:45):
different administratorsand having to tell them what happened.
And it just wasit was a terrible crisis situation.
It was awfulto try to get him to go to school.
And then it was just a matter of timeevery day that I'd be working,
that my phone would start blowing upand it would be, I can't stay here.
I don't feel safe here.
I don't have friends.
(10:06):
I feel like I'm going to throw up.
And then he'd make his way to the nurse'soffice and they would call and say,
your son is sick.
He says he has a headache, like he doesn'thave a headache, but we'll come get him.
Or he'd call one of his grandfathersand they would be at the school
before I could even say, like, hey,take a deep breath, try to stay there.
(10:28):
But what we started realizing is,why are we
the ones that we keep pushing himto stay in this situation?
Right.
So I had wrote this
letter, and posted it on social media,
and the outpouring of supportand love was amazing.
(10:48):
And resources and give Thomas my number.
I'll hang out with him.That was so awesome.
But the best part of the whole thing was.
At one point.
I mistakenly
allowed this storm
and then a boxing facility to follow me
(11:12):
because I thoughtit was an old friend of mine.
And this young man, he's an adult,but he's young to me,
reached out to me and said,no one should ever have to go
throughwhat you're just Sean is experiencing.
And I don't know if he would ever trya boxing lesson, but I would love
(11:33):
I would love to give him a boxing lessonto maybe get in his power vacuum.
Wow. So I asked Thomas and
he always says no the first time I ask himsomething new to try something.
No mom.
And then I have to kind of convince himand walking through it.
(11:54):
And it was an immediate yes.
And I'm like, you don't even knowthis person and you want to try boxing?
And he's like, heck yes.
So we wentand had a very first private lesson
with Elder at Storm MMAand he changed our life.
Oh my gosh, how so?
He has been the most positive influence
(12:16):
for Tom is that isn't.
A family member.
He's not a friend. He'sa complete stranger.
And he just met Thomas right where he was
and startedgiving him the gift of exercise
and learning how to defend himself,but also learning
(12:37):
that he didn't doanything to deserve that. And
he is in charge of himself
and can do anything that he wants to.
Now that no one evershould make him feel like that.
Yeah.
No, I think that, you know, through this
(12:59):
tragedy comes this triumph with,you know, that that
that human touch of people understandingwhat your family is going through.
And I think that's it.
That's the most beautiful part ofthe story is the fact that the community
felt the pain that you are going through.
So how do youhow did you feel as his mother when
(13:24):
because so many parentsare going through this,
whether it's cyberbullyingor this same type of bullying.
Yeah.
What were you feeling as the parents
when he would come homeand he was going through all of this?
Well, to be honest with you, my husbandand I don't necessarily
always take our children's word first.
(13:44):
We have always play devil's advocate.
And are you sure you've donenothing wrong?
Could you have possibly donesomething wrong?
We play both sides.
Teachers always right.
Respect your elders, respect the staff.
Right. Like, what's your part in all this?
And he's like, I honestly don't know.
(14:05):
I honestly don't know.
So when he would come home, Jeffand I would just be like,
we don't know what's going on.
Is he just having some crazy anxiety?
Could he be misinterpretingwhat's happening?
Anything's possible. Right?
It wasn't this malicious intent.
It wasn't something that we couldvisually see, like cyber bullying.
(14:28):
Right.
And when you have a son who's or a childwho's neurodiverse, and their sentences
and their retelling of a story isn't
necessarily like Methodicor in perfect sequence,
Jeff and I are like, trying to, okay,figure out like what is going on.
And we're like,if this is really happening,
(14:49):
are you telling someone, well,I didn't tell someone today
or there wasn't anyone there todayfor me to talk to or,
just a multitude of factors. So
every
day that this kept happening, or at firstit was, you know, one day this week
and the next weekit was another day and it kept ramping up.
(15:11):
And then the minute I started realizing,wait, his friends are really excluding him
now, and he didn'twant to go hang out with this group.
And then there was a child
who was in a special ed classeswho started making fun of him, too.
And we're like,hey bro, don't throw stones, right?
You're both in the same class together.
You're in the same situationlike you would think
(15:32):
that they would support each othermore than your norm, but
it was the hardest thingI've ever been through
to see your child in painand not be able to do anything about it.
Steerable is terrible.
So how did you involve the school?
At what point did you involve the school?
(15:53):
Right away.
Every day we had so many phone calls.
I showed up and talked to the principaland the assistant principal.
My husband and I spent every day.
And you call them in,you're waiting for them to call you back,
or you send an email,and that takes forever to respond.
And I'm trying to contact his specialed teachers who I know
(16:14):
on a little different, more personal levelat the school, we held meetings.
We had IEP conferencesbecause he's in an IEP since first grade,
and we kept saying, like,what are we doing to help Thomas?
And we added more, counseling for him.
We added meetingswith the school psychologists, but
(16:35):
it wasn't really about what we realizedwas what's happening
to those other kids, because Thomas wouldsay, like, nothing happened to them.
They're still there.
They still have their same,mentality towards me.
They're still verbally attacking me.
They're still not being nice to me.
I don't want to walk in their direction.
(16:55):
He didn't want me to pick him upat some certain spot for fear of
he knows that all those other kidswalk that direction after school.
So we're all taughtthat you send your kids to school
and there's these safe.
They're just as safe as they are at home.
And when they're not, this is the worst.
(17:15):
It's the worst.
So what did the school do right.And what did the school do wrong?
Oh, I think they were trying to.
And I do think that they were trying
with the tools and the power
that they have to followthrough with their policies.
A behavioral contract,bring the kids in for investigating.
(17:40):
I think that'swhat they're allowed to do for lack.
I don't I'm not sure,what they did wrong.
I don't think they actually believeThomas, that it was happening.
Wow, I really don't.
And little things starting off
(18:00):
as excludingcan turn into something bigger.
Like him getting beat up in the bathroom.
So after the incidentwhere he was beat up in the bathroom.
Yeah.
Then that was kind of the gamechanger, right?
That was a pivotal moment wherewe were like, we're done, we're done.
We're done, we're done.
And I called, talked to the principal
(18:22):
and she insert and said, assured me
that Thomas would still be safe at schooland that she was going to be there
the next day, and that they were goingto bring in all those boys for questioning
one more time and to please have Thomascome to school one more time.
So we agreed, and we got Thomas to agree,
(18:45):
and he knew what was happening. And
he went to school and
they he was pulled in for questioning,
and the boys were pulledin for questioning, like one by one.
And the last boy told the truth of
what had happened, what he had witnessed,and thankfully for him.
(19:05):
But at that point, my husbandand I were just like, we were over it.
Because the minute they all got questioned
and went back on that campus,the retaliation came all over again.
The name calling.
Why are you a snitch?
Why are you tattling on us?
Like,why are you such a baby like, you know,
and he just came home and he said to us,I can't do this anymore.
(19:28):
And we said, okay, no problem,we're done too.
It just wasn't working.
And if something's not working,why do you keep trying to force it?
But it was scary.
Even though the situation was awfuland it wasn't working.
Still scary.
Yeah, because the next school yearhad already started
and here we arejust yanking our kid out of school.
(19:50):
So now what? Right.
And when you have a childwho's had an IEP since first grade,
they do have special servicesand accommodations for them,
which work schools majority of the time.
That they can cater to kids like that.
Right.
Private schools it's much harder,although it's possible,
(20:12):
but public schoolsdo have the accommodations.
Yeah.
So at what point did you get an attorney?
Okay, so we pulled him out of school,put him on an
independent studiescontract for two weeks,
and went like crazy all over Orange Countylooking for a school for him.
And there was one school that we hadn'tseen.
(20:34):
But I happen to be friends
with the director of the Johnson Academyin San Juan Capistrano.
It's the school for dyslexia.
So on a Saturday I called her.
She was driving to Vegas.
She already knows Thomas, and now she knewwhat had happened to Thomas.
And what we had realized simultaneously
(20:55):
in those two weeks that he was on thatindependent studies contract.
His testing scoresfrom the beginning of the year came out.
And at this point he was in eighth grade
and he was at a second gradelevel for reading and math.
He was just pushed all along.
And every time they would make usfeel like, oh, this is normal.
(21:17):
This is normal for someonewith his abilities or disabilities,
and we believe them.
But that's too big of a gap.
Sure, any student who has one more yearbefore they go to high school right?
So in talking with Michelle,she's another angel in our lives.
And she said,Thomas has to come to the Johnson Academy.
(21:40):
That's the only place for him.
And she said, I want you to call thisperson or she's a civil rights attorney.
Her name is Amanda Salahi,and she is part of the Inclusion
Education Project, which we loved.
And so I got off the phone with herand just came back from a run,
(22:02):
and I said, sit down,I've got some news, and here we go.
So we reached out to Amanda
and she wanted to hear our case,and they only take cases
that they feel are moreor less a home run,
and that would be beneficialfor all parties involved.
(22:23):
So in seeking legal counsel
with her,she walked us through the due process
and through mediation,
we agreed to a settlementwith the school district.
And we're super happy about that
and very thankful and very grateful.
And it was an interesting processto go through.
(22:45):
It was longer than we expected.
And more emotions. Right.
This whole thing is super emotional, but
I feel like you just have to keep going
and you have to advocate for your kid,
even if it's scary, even if.
(23:06):
Even if you don't knowif it's necessarily right.
But in your heart of hearts,when you know that
something is off, then speak up.
Go ask questions. Show up at the school.
Ask other parents.
Look for help.
Is there anythingyou would have done differently
throughout this entire experience?
(23:28):
That's a good question.
That's a good question.
Honestly, seeing how successful Thomashas been
at this dyslexia school,I wish we put him in there sooner.
That's a big regret now.
But he in let's see.
He started there in Octoberand he finished in June.
(23:51):
He read 28 books.
Wow, wow,
28 books.
And he has a new love for reading.
And he also just felt
seen.
And he felt normal because
now he was in an environmentwhere there was other kids like him.
(24:11):
That's a great lesson.
Well going back to that letterthat you sent out.
Yeah. To the parents. Yeah.
The parents of Thomas's formerfriends. Yes.
Who I'm sure that you know these parentsbecause they had all been friends.
Yeah.
What did you tell them.
What did you tell themin that letter. Oh, gosh.
(24:33):
See her ago.
But I had I
wanted them to know the strugglesof what was happening to Thomas.
So I told them that I hope
their child,you know, had a successful year at school
and got straight A's for my child'sstruggle to read and write.
I hope that their child,
you know, had a great day on campuswhen my child was eating lunch
(24:57):
by himself, and your childrenwere still making fun of him.
And I hope that they enjoyed
their school experiencewhile my son hid in the bathroom
at school.
It was my only way to let them know
because like I said, schoolsdon't really pull in families
(25:19):
anymore of hey,this is what's going on with
Johnny and Staceyand let's try to work things out.
They don't do that anymore.
And a lot of parents,
when they aren't
there, I'm not blaming or shaming,it's just an observation.
But when parents give their kidsthese cellphones,
(25:39):
parents tend to stop parentingbecause they think, oh,
they have a cell phone,they're in charge now.
They're mature now.
They can make their own plans,they can communicate with their friends.
But it's almost the opposite.
Those phones that internet, those devices,
they bring a whole nother host of problemswhere
(26:01):
I think the parenting just begins.
What needs to change?
I wish we could go back to likewhen it was 1985
and times for simpler,and you had to call the Smith House
to see if Thomas was homeand you would ask Mrs.
Smith,you know, if Thomas was home, and Mrs.
(26:23):
Smith would say, oh, hey, buddy,how's it going?
I heard you hit a home run in yourbaseball game and you had a connection.
I think the connection is lost.
It's lost.
And people may judge me and think
I'm a helicopter mom or a tiger mom,
but we're involved in our kids lives,and I want to know who you are.
(26:49):
I want to know who the friends are.
I want to know who the families are.
And I wish I wish more peoplekind of went back
to, let's be all in with our kids, right?
Let's watch TV together as a family.
Let's go for a walk on the beach togetheras a family instead of,
oh, I got to get this one.
(27:09):
Did that sport? Didthis one do that sport?
And this one has this,and this one has that.
It just feels like everyonethere lives have sped up.
We're all way too busy.
And I just think that maybethat would make a difference.
The more check inswith your children, right?
So would there have been a waywithin that neighborhood and that group of
(27:31):
friends with the parents to come togetherand try and talk about it?
Or was it just finger pointing?
I don't think so.
I think it just turnedinto finger pointing.
At one point,I did reach out to one of the moms
and said, after I found out abouthe wasn't included in those moments
and, outings,I asked her, I said, could you find out
(27:53):
if something's going on for meor if Thomas did something?
Because we would like to learn from this
and grow,and we're not sure what happened.
And Thomas isn't sure what happened.
So she said, no problem.
I'll ask my son and get back to you.
And I said, great.
So she got back to meand her response was,
(28:14):
oh, my son says, there's nothing going on.
Yeah.
So I would also like to encourage parents,
if there's a parent reaching out to you
asking for help or asking what's going
on, there's definitely something going on
and it would be helpful to openthose lines of communication.
(28:37):
So the finger pointing doesn't happen.
And so thisit doesn't turn into a crisis situation
where a kid doesn't feelcomfortable going to school.
So right now yeah there is a mom.
Yeah.
Or a dad. Yeah.
Or Mom and Dadlistening to this right now.
Yeah. What.
And they're going through the exactsame thing.
(28:58):
Yeah. The despair. Yeah.
The heartbreak. Right.
What do you say to them.
And I'm getting goosebumpsjust thinking about it.
First of all, I'd want to give themthe biggest hug that I can.
And second of all.
No one knows your childbetter than you do as their parents.
(29:19):
So if it's not working,whether it's a sports team
that they're on, their school environment,
make that changeno matter how old they are.
And it doesn't have to be.
You have to now drive an hour commuteto get them right,
to go to a different schoolor to be on a different sports team,
(29:41):
but open up lines of communicationand try to communicate with other parents.
Try to communicatewith the school or the coaches.
But if it's not working,make the change because for us,
the outcome
was better than we could have everimagined.
(30:01):
Ever.
And Thomas is thrivingand that's what we all want, right?
Is you want your children to thrive.
Absolutely.
And you also hit on the cell phone issue.
Oh, I always whenever I would go outand I would talk to parents
about cyberbullying and cyber crimeand all of that,
(30:22):
those phones belonged to the parents.
And I think the minutethat the parent hands it to the child,
if they think that that is the child'sphone,
that is their first mistake, you're 100%right because it is so important.
And when you hand that childthat phone for the very first time,
make sure that they are awarewe're going to be looking at your phone.
(30:44):
We have monitors on your phone.
This is not your phone.
This is a phone that you can use.
And then that way and never let them,
you know, and I know this is harderwhen they get older with as teenagers.
But watch them because you don't knowwho they're talking to on that phone.
And that's where child predatorscome into it and all of the rest.
(31:06):
So it is so important for parentsto know that those cell phones,
you know, we have to think of them
in a different wayif we want to keep our kids safe.
Agree.
Absolutely.
Well I just want to talkone more time about the hero. Okay.
Besides you know, geez of this storyis out there.
Yeah.
(31:27):
For him to reach out to youafter seeing that letter.
Yeah. And volunteer his time. Yeah.
And the fact that it made sucha significant
difference in Thomas's lifebecause he's still going there, right?
Still going there a year later.
And the cool partwas the timing that when he had met elder,
he was turning 14.
(31:49):
So when you are 14, in a gymin California,
you're actually considered an adult.
So, Thomas, this gym opened up
all their classesso he was able to take a kid class.
If he felt comfortable there,
he could take an adult classif he felt comfortable there.
And that became his summer camp for thatsummer between seventh and eighth grade.
(32:12):
But every time Thomas sees elder,he saw him last night.
He took a class and he came homeand he's like, mom, I just love that guy.
He's so great.
He comes homeand his adrenaline is through the roof.
He's a sweaty messand he's had such a great time.
He's learned about exercise
(32:34):
and how beneficial it can befor your mental health, right?
You and I know that.
But he also has a friend for life.
He has a mentor that if Jeff and
I can't help him,I know Altair will be there for Thomas.
That's a beautiful.
That's a beautiful part of the story.
And it's sad that he had to go through
(32:55):
what he wentthrough in order to get there.
But the fact that he'sdoing so much better in school,
and he has this whole communityaround him,
that that is a happy ending for sure.
Yes. The happiest,the happiest day for me.
Thank you so muchfor telling your story on the show.
You're going to help a lot of people,and I just want everyone to know
(33:15):
that if they go to Gina osborne.com,we are going to have a guide for parents
who are going through this
and what they need to doand how they can keep their kids safe.
Thank you. Thank you.
Making Maverick Moves with Gina Osborne is
produced and edited by XL media.
Connect with us on social media at Gina L
Osborne, dot com smacking Maverick moves.
(33:39):
Don't miss an episode.
Subscribe to making Maverick Moveswherever you get your podcasts.
When Tammy Smith's seventh gradeson Thomas was targeted,
humiliated and physicallyattacked at school for being different.
She didn't just go to the school board.
She wrote an open letter to the parents
of the bulliesand posted it on social media.
Her words weren't just powerful.
(00:20):
They were honest,heartbreaking, and courageous.
In a world where silence is often easier,Tammy made a maverick move.
Today, she's here to tell her storyand to speak up for every child
who's ever felt alone, excludedor broken by bullying.
This is an episode about pain, resilience,
(00:43):
and a mother's refusal to stay quiet.
My name is GinaL Osborn and I'm an Army veteran.
I spent six years during the end of theCold War as a counterintelligence agent.
I was appointed as an FBI agent,and during my 22 year
career, worked everythingfrom Asian organized crime to terrorism.
(01:05):
I became the assistant special agentin charge of cyber and computer forensics.
And then I came out of retirementand spent two years
as the safety and security officerat la metro.
Now I'm here to helpyou make your maverick move.
Welcome to the show, Tammy.
Thank you so much, Tammy.
When I heard your story.
(01:25):
Yeah, it broke my heart.
So tell us
what caused you to write a letter
to the parents of the kidswho are bullying your son?
Thomas?
Middle school staff for everyone.
It's really tough.
(01:46):
But it was especially tough on my sonThomas.
Seventh grade was a nightmare.
I couldn't get him to go to school.
I couldn't get him to stay at school.
Sorry.
We just couldn'tfigure out what was happening.
His friends dropped him.
He was choked on the playground,
(02:08):
like at lunch timeby a random sixth grader.
So a younger student,he's made fun of constantly.
He didn't have anyone to eat lunch with.
He was beat up in the bathroom.
And on social media, I was noticingthat it was the end of the year.
And so all these wonderful parentswere making these awesome posts
(02:32):
about how wonderfultheir child's last year at school was.
Right.
And Johnny didthis, and Sarah did that, and I love it.
I love to see all that.
But that isn't the case for everyone'sschool year, right?
And it was especially not the casefor Thomas.
So even though this is my privatesocial media account,
(02:53):
it was kind of cathartic for me to
just throw it out thereand let our friends and family know
that here's the real truth ofwhat happened to our son in seventh grade.
And it was terrible.
So I thought, how do I do this toI just like, say, here it is.
This is what happened to our kid?
(03:15):
Or do I write a letter to themand just say, here it is.
This is what happened to Thomas.
And I truly hope that all of their kids
did have a great year,but my son was tortured.
So before you get to that point.
Because
(03:36):
bullying whether it's cyber bullying
or physical bullyingthat Thomas went through.
You know bullying is bullyingwhere there is a victim.
Sometimesthe victim will tell their parents.
Sometimes they won't. So walk us through.
What was it like for you when you startedto notice that something was different?
(03:57):
So his group of friends,
I had just started noticing
there was a dance that had come upand there was a parent permission slip,
and Thomas handed me the permission slipand I said, are your buddies going?
And he said, oh, I don't know, mom.
And I'm like, do you want me to reach outto the moms and see if they're going?
(04:18):
Because boys don't really communicateright?
So, I reached out to the momsand I heard from one of them,
and she had said,oh, I don't think they're going.
So I'm like, oh, okay, Thomas,I guess they're not going.
So I'm like,do you still want to go by yourself?
No, mom,I don't want to go by myself. Okay.
(04:39):
So the day that the permissionslip was due, Thomas came home from school
and said that at lunch time,
he watched his two, quote unquote, friendstake their signed permission slips
out of their backpackstogether and walk to the ASB office
to turn in their permission slips.
(05:00):
And I said,they never said anything to you.
And he said, no. I said,did you say something to them?
And he's like, well,I didn't know what to say.
So I reached back out to the momsand said, hey,
I didn't know that the boys were going.
And we just found out today.
And one of the moms said, oh,he can still turn in the permission slip
(05:20):
today trying to cover it up and I've said,no, there are it's already do.
It's past the deadline now so he can't go.
And now he actually doesn'treally want to go.
Who would want to goif you're not included. Right.
And these are your friends.
And if your friends don't want you there,then what are you supposed to do?
So I started noticing things like that,
(05:42):
and there was a daythat they got out of school
early, and I happened to be at the mall,and I saw that
same group of boys with their whole crew,and my son was at home.
So again, he wasn't included.
And then I started asking him, like,who are you hanging out with at lunch?
And he's like,I'm trying to hang out with them,
(06:03):
but they're not wanting to hang outwith me anymore.
They started calling him namesand making fun of him.
And when that happens at any school,it, like, spreads like wildfire, right?
So we started contacting the schooland asking them, you know, hey,
can you give us a little support herebecause we're not sure what's going on?
And is theresomeone Thomas can talk to about this?
(06:26):
And. Oh, yeah, when there's an incidentat school, then go ahead
and make sure Thomas talksto an adult on campus.
So, when incidents would occur, he'd
either be left out or be called names,or he was threatened in the hallways.
He did just that.
He would go to the school officials,tell them what happened.
Well,then they would bring those other boys
(06:49):
in for investigatingto find out what happened.
And they did.
What most teenagers do is lie.
You know,no one's going to really tell the truth.
So nothing would happen.
Thomas would still feeluncomfortable at school.
Then he started really having nobodyto have lunch with,
and they started teasing himand calling him names.
(07:11):
The R-word, which I don't like.
They called him stupid.
And he just kept telling me, like,I have no friends at school,
and everybody makes fun of mewhen I'm their mom.
Yeah.
And then he kept being teased.
And then that last incident ofhe was literally choked
(07:32):
on the playground at lunch,and it was the principal
who pried herhands off of that sixth graders neck.
And I don't even knowif anything happened to that kid.
Like,parents aren't being called in anymore
to have conferences with each otherso that everyone knows what's going on.
(07:52):
I'm not sure
what their behavior consequences are,but it always just seemed
that they were right back at schoolthe next day.
Any time that that happened.
And then they were constantlyretaliating against Thomas.
Right now, Thomas has a target on his backand there's nothing you can do about it.
So the school was sayingthere has to be an incident before
(08:14):
they'll do somethingabout it. Correct? Right.
Or they had to have all the factsand everybody's story had to line up.
Well, if you get a group of kids,
you really think their storiesare going to line up?
Probably not.
One of the remedies, at one time,the administration had suggested
for Thomasto spend his school day in the office,
(08:36):
so that would be more of a punishmentfor him.
Right? Where?
Okay, he's being bullied and attackedand ridiculed on campus.
But to keep him safe, you'rejust going to put him in the office, which
we didn't feel the thought was necessarilygood for Thomas's mental health either.
Right. Sure.
Well, and Thomas Thomas,he has dyslexia. Yes.
(09:00):
So that adds an entire other elementto this thing.
When you are neurodiverse,your brain is different,
so your processing is different.
How you articulate can be different.
And Thomas has dyslexic.
He has dysgraphia and dyscalculia.
So it's all three forms of dyslexiais reading his writing and math.
(09:24):
And he also has auditory processing.
If you were to see him or meet him.
And I wish he was here today.
You wouldn't necessarily know.
But sometimes he says
things backwards or it doesn't come outthe way that he intended.
So that's hard for him to trying tocome home and communicate what happened.
And then now he'sbeing in front of all these
(09:45):
different administratorsand having to tell them what happened.
And it just wasit was a terrible crisis situation.
It was awfulto try to get him to go to school.
And then it was just a matter of timeevery day that I'd be working,
that my phone would start blowing upand it would be, I can't stay here.
I don't feel safe here.
I don't have friends.
(10:06):
I feel like I'm going to throw up.
And then he'd make his way to the nurse'soffice and they would call and say,
your son is sick.
He says he has a headache, like he doesn'thave a headache, but we'll come get him.
Or he'd call one of his grandfathersand they would be at the school
before I could even say, like, hey,take a deep breath, try to stay there.
(10:28):
But what we started realizing is,why are we
the ones that we keep pushing himto stay in this situation?
Right.
So I had wrote this
letter, and posted it on social media,
and the outpouring of supportand love was amazing.
(10:48):
And resources and give Thomas my number.
I'll hang out with him.That was so awesome.
But the best part of the whole thing was.
At one point.
I mistakenly
allowed this storm
and then a boxing facility to follow me
(11:12):
because I thoughtit was an old friend of mine.
And this young man, he's an adult,but he's young to me,
reached out to me and said,no one should ever have to go
throughwhat you're just Sean is experiencing.
And I don't know if he would ever trya boxing lesson, but I would love
(11:33):
I would love to give him a boxing lessonto maybe get in his power vacuum.
Wow. So I asked Thomas and
he always says no the first time I ask himsomething new to try something.
No mom.
And then I have to kind of convince himand walking through it.
(11:54):
And it was an immediate yes.
And I'm like, you don't even knowthis person and you want to try boxing?
And he's like, heck yes.
So we wentand had a very first private lesson
with Elder at Storm MMAand he changed our life.
Oh my gosh, how so?
He has been the most positive influence
(12:16):
for Tom is that isn't.
A family member.
He's not a friend. He'sa complete stranger.
And he just met Thomas right where he was
and startedgiving him the gift of exercise
and learning how to defend himself,but also learning
(12:37):
that he didn't doanything to deserve that. And
he is in charge of himself
and can do anything that he wants to.
Now that no one evershould make him feel like that.
Yeah.
No, I think that, you know, through this
(12:59):
tragedy comes this triumph with,you know, that that
that human touch of people understandingwhat your family is going through.
And I think that's it.
That's the most beautiful part ofthe story is the fact that the community
felt the pain that you are going through.
So how do youhow did you feel as his mother when
(13:24):
because so many parentsare going through this,
whether it's cyberbullyingor this same type of bullying.
Yeah.
What were you feeling as the parents
when he would come homeand he was going through all of this?
Well, to be honest with you, my husbandand I don't necessarily
always take our children's word first.
(13:44):
We have always play devil's advocate.
And are you sure you've donenothing wrong?
Could you have possibly donesomething wrong?
We play both sides.
Teachers always right.
Respect your elders, respect the staff.
Right. Like, what's your part in all this?
And he's like, I honestly don't know.
(14:05):
I honestly don't know.
So when he would come home, Jeffand I would just be like,
we don't know what's going on.
Is he just having some crazy anxiety?
Could he be misinterpretingwhat's happening?
Anything's possible. Right?
It wasn't this malicious intent.
It wasn't something that we couldvisually see, like cyber bullying.
(14:28):
Right.
And when you have a son who's or a childwho's neurodiverse, and their sentences
and their retelling of a story isn't
necessarily like Methodicor in perfect sequence,
Jeff and I are like, trying to, okay,figure out like what is going on.
And we're like,if this is really happening,
(14:49):
are you telling someone, well,I didn't tell someone today
or there wasn't anyone there todayfor me to talk to or,
just a multitude of factors. So
every
day that this kept happening, or at firstit was, you know, one day this week
and the next weekit was another day and it kept ramping up.
(15:11):
And then the minute I started realizing,wait, his friends are really excluding him
now, and he didn'twant to go hang out with this group.
And then there was a child
who was in a special ed classeswho started making fun of him, too.
And we're like,hey bro, don't throw stones, right?
You're both in the same class together.
You're in the same situationlike you would think
(15:32):
that they would support each othermore than your norm, but
it was the hardest thingI've ever been through
to see your child in painand not be able to do anything about it.
Steerable is terrible.
So how did you involve the school?
At what point did you involve the school?
(15:53):
Right away.
Every day we had so many phone calls.
I showed up and talked to the principaland the assistant principal.
My husband and I spent every day.
And you call them in,you're waiting for them to call you back,
or you send an email,and that takes forever to respond.
And I'm trying to contact his specialed teachers who I know
(16:14):
on a little different, more personal levelat the school, we held meetings.
We had IEP conferencesbecause he's in an IEP since first grade,
and we kept saying, like,what are we doing to help Thomas?
And we added more, counseling for him.
We added meetingswith the school psychologists, but
(16:35):
it wasn't really about what we realizedwas what's happening
to those other kids, because Thomas wouldsay, like, nothing happened to them.
They're still there.
They still have their same,mentality towards me.
They're still verbally attacking me.
They're still not being nice to me.
I don't want to walk in their direction.
(16:55):
He didn't want me to pick him upat some certain spot for fear of
he knows that all those other kidswalk that direction after school.
So we're all taughtthat you send your kids to school
and there's these safe.
They're just as safe as they are at home.
And when they're not, this is the worst.
(17:15):
It's the worst.
So what did the school do right.And what did the school do wrong?
Oh, I think they were trying to.
And I do think that they were trying
with the tools and the power
that they have to followthrough with their policies.
A behavioral contract,bring the kids in for investigating.
(17:40):
I think that'swhat they're allowed to do for lack.
I don't I'm not sure,what they did wrong.
I don't think they actually believeThomas, that it was happening.
Wow, I really don't.
And little things starting off
(18:00):
as excludingcan turn into something bigger.
Like him getting beat up in the bathroom.
So after the incidentwhere he was beat up in the bathroom.
Yeah.
Then that was kind of the gamechanger, right?
That was a pivotal moment wherewe were like, we're done, we're done.
We're done, we're done.
And I called, talked to the principal
(18:22):
and she insert and said, assured me
that Thomas would still be safe at schooland that she was going to be there
the next day, and that they were goingto bring in all those boys for questioning
one more time and to please have Thomascome to school one more time.
So we agreed, and we got Thomas to agree,
(18:45):
and he knew what was happening. And
he went to school and
they he was pulled in for questioning,
and the boys were pulledin for questioning, like one by one.
And the last boy told the truth of
what had happened, what he had witnessed,and thankfully for him.
(19:05):
But at that point, my husbandand I were just like, we were over it.
Because the minute they all got questioned
and went back on that campus,the retaliation came all over again.
The name calling.
Why are you a snitch?
Why are you tattling on us?
Like,why are you such a baby like, you know,
and he just came home and he said to us,I can't do this anymore.
(19:28):
And we said, okay, no problem,we're done too.
It just wasn't working.
And if something's not working,why do you keep trying to force it?
But it was scary.
Even though the situation was awfuland it wasn't working.
Still scary.
Yeah, because the next school yearhad already started
and here we arejust yanking our kid out of school.
(19:50):
So now what? Right.
And when you have a childwho's had an IEP since first grade,
they do have special servicesand accommodations for them,
which work schools majority of the time.
That they can cater to kids like that.
Right.
Private schools it's much harder,although it's possible,
(20:12):
but public schoolsdo have the accommodations.
Yeah.
So at what point did you get an attorney?
Okay, so we pulled him out of school,put him on an
independent studiescontract for two weeks,
and went like crazy all over Orange Countylooking for a school for him.
And there was one school that we hadn'tseen.
(20:34):
But I happen to be friends
with the director of the Johnson Academyin San Juan Capistrano.
It's the school for dyslexia.
So on a Saturday I called her.
She was driving to Vegas.
She already knows Thomas, and now she knewwhat had happened to Thomas.
And what we had realized simultaneously
(20:55):
in those two weeks that he was on thatindependent studies contract.
His testing scoresfrom the beginning of the year came out.
And at this point he was in eighth grade
and he was at a second gradelevel for reading and math.
He was just pushed all along.
And every time they would make usfeel like, oh, this is normal.
(21:17):
This is normal for someonewith his abilities or disabilities,
and we believe them.
But that's too big of a gap.
Sure, any student who has one more yearbefore they go to high school right?
So in talking with Michelle,she's another angel in our lives.
And she said,Thomas has to come to the Johnson Academy.
(21:40):
That's the only place for him.
And she said, I want you to call thisperson or she's a civil rights attorney.
Her name is Amanda Salahi,and she is part of the Inclusion
Education Project, which we loved.
And so I got off the phone with herand just came back from a run,
(22:02):
and I said, sit down,I've got some news, and here we go.
So we reached out to Amanda
and she wanted to hear our case,and they only take cases
that they feel are moreor less a home run,
and that would be beneficialfor all parties involved.
(22:23):
So in seeking legal counsel
with her,she walked us through the due process
and through mediation,
we agreed to a settlementwith the school district.
And we're super happy about that
and very thankful and very grateful.
And it was an interesting processto go through.
(22:45):
It was longer than we expected.
And more emotions. Right.
This whole thing is super emotional, but
I feel like you just have to keep going
and you have to advocate for your kid,
even if it's scary, even if.
(23:06):
Even if you don't knowif it's necessarily right.
But in your heart of hearts,when you know that
something is off, then speak up.
Go ask questions. Show up at the school.
Ask other parents.
Look for help.
Is there anythingyou would have done differently
throughout this entire experience?
(23:28):
That's a good question.
That's a good question.
Honestly, seeing how successful Thomashas been
at this dyslexia school,I wish we put him in there sooner.
That's a big regret now.
But he in let's see.
He started there in Octoberand he finished in June.
(23:51):
He read 28 books.
Wow, wow,
28 books.
And he has a new love for reading.
And he also just felt
seen.
And he felt normal because
now he was in an environmentwhere there was other kids like him.
(24:11):
That's a great lesson.
Well going back to that letterthat you sent out.
Yeah. To the parents. Yeah.
The parents of Thomas's formerfriends. Yes.
Who I'm sure that you know these parentsbecause they had all been friends.
Yeah.
What did you tell them.
What did you tell themin that letter. Oh, gosh.
(24:33):
See her ago.
But I had I
wanted them to know the strugglesof what was happening to Thomas.
So I told them that I hope
their child,you know, had a successful year at school
and got straight A's for my child'sstruggle to read and write.
I hope that their child,
you know, had a great day on campuswhen my child was eating lunch
(24:57):
by himself, and your childrenwere still making fun of him.
And I hope that they enjoyed
their school experiencewhile my son hid in the bathroom
at school.
It was my only way to let them know
because like I said, schoolsdon't really pull in families
(25:19):
anymore of hey,this is what's going on with
Johnny and Staceyand let's try to work things out.
They don't do that anymore.
And a lot of parents,
when they aren't
there, I'm not blaming or shaming,it's just an observation.
But when parents give their kidsthese cellphones,
(25:39):
parents tend to stop parentingbecause they think, oh,
they have a cell phone,they're in charge now.
They're mature now.
They can make their own plans,they can communicate with their friends.
But it's almost the opposite.
Those phones that internet, those devices,
they bring a whole nother host of problemswhere
(26:01):
I think the parenting just begins.
What needs to change?
I wish we could go back to likewhen it was 1985
and times for simpler,and you had to call the Smith House
to see if Thomas was homeand you would ask Mrs.
Smith,you know, if Thomas was home, and Mrs.
(26:23):
Smith would say, oh, hey, buddy,how's it going?
I heard you hit a home run in yourbaseball game and you had a connection.
I think the connection is lost.
It's lost.
And people may judge me and think
I'm a helicopter mom or a tiger mom,
but we're involved in our kids lives,and I want to know who you are.
(26:49):
I want to know who the friends are.
I want to know who the families are.
And I wish I wish more peoplekind of went back
to, let's be all in with our kids, right?
Let's watch TV together as a family.
Let's go for a walk on the beach togetheras a family instead of,
oh, I got to get this one.
(27:09):
Did that sport? Didthis one do that sport?
And this one has this,and this one has that.
It just feels like everyonethere lives have sped up.
We're all way too busy.
And I just think that maybethat would make a difference.
The more check inswith your children, right?
So would there have been a waywithin that neighborhood and that group of
(27:31):
friends with the parents to come togetherand try and talk about it?
Or was it just finger pointing?
I don't think so.
I think it just turnedinto finger pointing.
At one point,I did reach out to one of the moms
and said, after I found out abouthe wasn't included in those moments
and, outings,I asked her, I said, could you find out
(27:53):
if something's going on for meor if Thomas did something?
Because we would like to learn from this
and grow,and we're not sure what happened.
And Thomas isn't sure what happened.
So she said, no problem.
I'll ask my son and get back to you.
And I said, great.
So she got back to meand her response was,
(28:14):
oh, my son says, there's nothing going on.
Yeah.
So I would also like to encourage parents,
if there's a parent reaching out to you
asking for help or asking what's going
on, there's definitely something going on
and it would be helpful to openthose lines of communication.
(28:37):
So the finger pointing doesn't happen.
And so thisit doesn't turn into a crisis situation
where a kid doesn't feelcomfortable going to school.
So right now yeah there is a mom.
Yeah.
Or a dad. Yeah.
Or Mom and Dadlistening to this right now.
Yeah. What.
And they're going through the exactsame thing.
(28:58):
Yeah. The despair. Yeah.
The heartbreak. Right.
What do you say to them.
And I'm getting goosebumpsjust thinking about it.
First of all, I'd want to give themthe biggest hug that I can.
And second of all.
No one knows your childbetter than you do as their parents.
(29:19):
So if it's not working,whether it's a sports team
that they're on, their school environment,
make that changeno matter how old they are.
And it doesn't have to be.
You have to now drive an hour commuteto get them right,
to go to a different schoolor to be on a different sports team,
(29:41):
but open up lines of communicationand try to communicate with other parents.
Try to communicatewith the school or the coaches.
But if it's not working,make the change because for us,
the outcome
was better than we could have everimagined.
(30:01):
Ever.
And Thomas is thrivingand that's what we all want, right?
Is you want your children to thrive.
Absolutely.
And you also hit on the cell phone issue.
Oh, I always whenever I would go outand I would talk to parents
about cyberbullying and cyber crimeand all of that,
(30:22):
those phones belonged to the parents.
And I think the minutethat the parent hands it to the child,
if they think that that is the child'sphone,
that is their first mistake, you're 100%right because it is so important.
And when you hand that childthat phone for the very first time,
make sure that they are awarewe're going to be looking at your phone.
(30:44):
We have monitors on your phone.
This is not your phone.
This is a phone that you can use.
And then that way and never let them,
you know, and I know this is harderwhen they get older with as teenagers.
But watch them because you don't knowwho they're talking to on that phone.
And that's where child predatorscome into it and all of the rest.
(31:06):
So it is so important for parentsto know that those cell phones,
you know, we have to think of them
in a different wayif we want to keep our kids safe.
Agree.
Absolutely.
Well I just want to talkone more time about the hero. Okay.
Besides you know, geez of this storyis out there.
Yeah.
(31:27):
For him to reach out to youafter seeing that letter.
Yeah. And volunteer his time. Yeah.
And the fact that it made sucha significant
difference in Thomas's lifebecause he's still going there, right?
Still going there a year later.
And the cool partwas the timing that when he had met elder,
he was turning 14.
(31:49):
So when you are 14, in a gymin California,
you're actually considered an adult.
So, Thomas, this gym opened up
all their classesso he was able to take a kid class.
If he felt comfortable there,
he could take an adult classif he felt comfortable there.
And that became his summer camp for thatsummer between seventh and eighth grade.
(32:12):
But every time Thomas sees elder,he saw him last night.
He took a class and he came homeand he's like, mom, I just love that guy.
He's so great.
He comes homeand his adrenaline is through the roof.
He's a sweaty messand he's had such a great time.
He's learned about exercise
(32:34):
and how beneficial it can befor your mental health, right?
You and I know that.
But he also has a friend for life.
He has a mentor that if Jeff and
I can't help him,I know Altair will be there for Thomas.
That's a beautiful.
That's a beautiful part of the story.
And it's sad that he had to go through
(32:55):
what he wentthrough in order to get there.
But the fact that he'sdoing so much better in school,
and he has this whole communityaround him,
that that is a happy ending for sure.
Yes. The happiest,the happiest day for me.
Thank you so muchfor telling your story on the show.
You're going to help a lot of people,and I just want everyone to know
(33:15):
that if they go to Gina osborne.com,we are going to have a guide for parents
who are going through this
and what they need to doand how they can keep their kids safe.
Thank you. Thank you.
Making Maverick Moves with Gina Osborne is
produced and edited by XL media.
Connect with us on social media at Gina L
Osborne, dot com smacking Maverick moves.
(33:39):
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