Follow Gina: https://www.instagram.com/ginalosborn/
A powerful conversation on second chances, purpose, and building dignity through workforce reentry. What does it take to follow in the footsteps of a legendary founder — and make the mission your own? In this inspiring episode, Bonnie Pomish, CEO of Working Wardrobes, shares her bold journey of stepping into leadership with authenticity, compassion, and courage. From empowering veterans and formerly incarcerated individuals to redefining perfectionism and building a values-driven team, Bonnie reveals what it truly means to lead with heart. If you've ever struggled with self-doubt, leadership identity, or finding your purpose — this conversation is for you.
🔗 Donate or get involved with Working Wardrobes: https://www.workingwardrobes.org
Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro: Who is Bonnie Pomish?
02:02 – The mission of Working Wardrobes
04:15 – Serving veterans and translating military skills
06:22 – Parallels between reentry from military & incarceration
07:24 – Succeeding founder Jerry Rosen & "wearing your own shoes"
12:04 – Leading with vulnerability and strengths-based leadership
20:55 – Being a recovering perfectionist & embracing 1% growth
23:06 – Learning through failure and trusting team members
34:16 – What a vulnerable workplace culture looks like
37:54 – Advice for future leaders: be a good human
43:04 – Ways to support Working Wardrobes (time, talent, treasure)
47:25 – Bonnie’s biggest maverick move: moving to CA with no plan
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Today's maverick move is all aboutcourageous succession, purpose driven
leadership and redefining what it means
to step into a legends shoes.
Our guest, Bonnie Palmer, became
only the second CEO of Working Wardrobesin Orange County, California
in 2022, following the iconic founderJerry Rosen,
(00:24):
who held the rolefor an astonishing 32 years.
But Bonnie didn't just fill a role.
She brought her own brand of bold,compassionate leadership to the table.
With more than 25 years of experiencein government and nonprofit sectors
and a masters in family resourcesand human development, Bonnie leads
(00:45):
with heart, humility and an unwavering
belief in the power of people.
She is a connector,a culture builder, and a student of life.
Today, we'll talk aboutwhat it really takes to carry on a legacy
while forging your own path,what it means to lead authentically.
And the maverick moves Bonniemakes every day to empower individuals
(01:11):
and communities through the lifechanging mission of working wardrobes.
My name is Gina L Osborneand I'm an Army veteran.
I spent six years during the endof the Cold War as a intelligence agent.
I was appointed as an FBI agent,and during my 22 year
career worked everythingfrom Asian organized crime to terrorism.
(01:35):
I became the assistant special agentin charge of cyber and computer forensics.
And then I came out of retirementand spent two years
as the safety and security officerat la metro.
Now I'm here to helpyou make your maverick move.
Welcome to the show, Bonnie.
Oh, thank you so much, Gina.
It's so fun to be here with you.
(01:55):
For those out there who are not familiarwith working wardrobes,
tell us about your missionat Working Wardrobes.
We believe that every person has a purposeand that it is truly our honor
to help people harness their purposeand offer it in to the world.
We meet people oftenafter they've experienced significant life
(02:16):
and circumstance challenges,and they are all
and have this one thing in common,which is they are overcoming some barrier,
usually more than one,as they aim to achieve gainful employment.
So we work with peopleon a very individualized
basis to help them identifywhat are the assets
you already have to promote in a resume,in an interview, in the marketplace.
(02:40):
And then what we discover iswhat is the goal?
What is it that you want to bewhen you grow up?
And we use different tools to assess that
including guiding real worldcareer exploration.
Sometimes we think we have a good ideaand that what we think about that career
is going to be amazing.
And then you find out like, oh, I have toget up at four in the morning to do that.
(03:01):
Maybe not. Right.
So we literally pair our clientsalso with people who are in the jobs
they are interested in to find outmore about that.
We guide our clients through certificationtraining,
soft skills trainings, all sorts of whatI think of as intellectual property.
What are the things that you don't knowthat you need to know to be successful
(03:22):
in that career?
We work with our clients as a finishingtouch of preparation for those interviews.
It's literally in our name, right?Working wardrobes.
We have one on one personalized stylingappointments where our clients literally
have a physical exteriormanifestation of the dream
they are creating,and they literally have that moment
where they see what's possiblein the mirror looking back at them.
(03:46):
We then work with our clientsto match them with job opportunities,
and that could be an apprenticeship
or work experience programor a permanent position.
And then we are in the long termrelationship business.
So when they are ready to seeka salary advancement or a promotion,
we are there with them for thator even another career pivot or change.
So soup to nuts.
(04:06):
We are helping people overcome barriersto achieve gainful employment,
and we're reaching over 5000 peopleon that journey every year.
That is terrific.
And what I love aboutthis is you are really engaged
with a community that is nearand dear to my heart and our veterans.
So do you want to talk about how it isthat you help the veterans?
Oh, I'd love to.
(04:26):
I'm married to one and the child of one,so it's also very near
and dear to my heart.
I think about what it takes to sign
up to be of service to the community.
And then I add this layer of.
And I'm willing to put my life on the linefor that.
I am so awedby that dedication and commitment
(04:47):
and have just great, respectand honor to those who serve.
So and working wardrobes it is trulyan honor to serve those who serve.
Just, next month,we're going to be aboard Camp Pendleton
and offering a service
for military spouses to preparefor the transition to the civilian world.
We have a whole team of veteransthat literally only serve veterans.
(05:11):
And they do this work out of the county'sVeterans Service office.
So, anyone in Orange Countycoming to get help
can literally be connectedto working wardrobes in that regard.
We do so many things to prepare
and to help our military navigatethis transition.
Everything from.
How do you translate that
military occupational specialtyinto a civilian speaker resumé?
(05:35):
How do you literally promotethe skills and assets that you gained
in the military,
but hone honing in on the partsthat you really want to keep doing right?
So yeah, we, we help out
hundreds of veteransevery year, navigate the same transition.
Something that kind of struck mewhen I came to working wardrobes
though, that was a little bit differentthan what I thought coming in was.
(05:58):
I had all of our militarylike on this pedestal, you know, I just, I
what what can I do? What can I do? Right.
And what I didn't knowthen is how similar their experience
is to the experience of a personwho was formerly incarcerated,
and how navigating these transitions
is a very similar journey to to voyage.
(06:20):
How do you think about the sortof controlled environment, pieces of,
you know, there
you have a lot of control and, you know,your own personal decision making,
but being in the context of a communitythat is
prescribed is very different.
And it can be very overwhelmingto navigate at the same time.
I have to procure my groceries,I have to prepare the meals.
(06:42):
I have to take care of my rent,my utilities, like all of these things
that were automatics, incarcerationor in military service.
Right.
And you add on to thatthe mental health, challenges
that many people face,all of us face every day,
but that you add these layers of lifeor death, you add these layers of impact,
(07:03):
and many come out with posttraumatic stress.
And,
those are exacerbating the challengesof everyday life on a significant level.
Right.
Well,I know working wardrobes, having lived
in the Orange County community,everybody knows who Jerry Rosen is.
Jerry was the founder and CEOof Working Wardrobes
(07:25):
for about 32 years, 34 yearsalong the long time.
And when she retired,everyone was wondering
who were they goingto get to fill her shoes?
I was at a fundraising eventwhere Jerry told everybody
she needed a tractor in the audienceand someone says, I'll pay for it.
It was like a $30,000 tractor.
So that was the type of impactthat she had.
(07:48):
So how what is it like coming in as a asa leader, as the CEO of an organization,
knowing that you had somebody who hadbeen there for the last three decades
doing everything that she had done.
Jerry is an amazing human.
And whenever I think about Jerry,I think about human power, the power
we each possess to create an impact,to make a difference in the world.
(08:11):
And, you know, in 1990, Jerry
chose to use her power to help womenwho had experienced domestic violence
and dreamt of creating daysof transformation, a day of self-esteem
and opportunity for women who were notfeeling great about themselves
to see themselves for their potential,their purpose
(08:32):
in a new light, and to helpbring the resources around them.
The support system,the the confidence building,
but not just on the outside,on the inside too, that
they could be self-sufficientand create self-sustaining success.
A person who is
able to own their powerand share their purpose in the world.
Right? The sky's the limit.
(08:52):
And I think, you know,Jerry is a small, physical person.
But you're right. Her shoes are huge.
And she created what we know todayas working wardrobes.
And it's a household nameand it's a household name
because there are so many waysthat the organization
invites people to share their powerto make a difference.
Many engage as clothing donors, right?
(09:13):
This is a huge part of how,you know, people sort of get to know
working wardrobes.
Often it's through a clothing drive.
Those accessories,those clothes, those shoes ultimately
outfit our clients in those interviewoutfits, right?
Corporations partnerwith us and Jerry Bambridge.
So many relationships with corporationsbecause not only can
they hire our clients,but they can help train our clients.
(09:34):
They can also bring dollarsand volunteerism into the mission.
And that's a great way for corporationsto live their values.
Jerry also was,you know, incredibly impactful in
and catalyzing the power of the individualto make a difference,
whether it was volunteering as ayou know, I'm a retired HR professional,
and I want to help coach candidates on howthat is the interview, to volunteering.
(09:56):
I have a passion for fashion andI want to volunteer in one of your stores.
Right.
Jerry shoes were so big becauseshe invited people to walk in their shoes
and to let their shoesbe as big as they were.
When I was selected to be her successor
at the end of 2021, I got to even
observe Jerry leading the organizationfor the last few months.
(10:19):
And she is, you know, bigger than lifeagain, but a small person.
So I think what Jerry brings intothe conversation is a huge legacy
of what it is to take your powerand to use it for good.
I personally was invitedby our board chair when I was hired
(10:40):
to wear my own shoes,that the shoes that I was stepping
into were not going to be anyone'sbut my own.
And when I think back on this,you know, as a founder of an organization
who ran it for 31 years, I think it's
almost impossible to think ofanother person walking in those shoes.
Isn't it?
(11:00):
I mean, this is not like,you know, the red slippers and
The Wizard of Oz like this.
My point
is, when we wear our own shoes,when we own and harness
our own power,that's really where the magic happens.
And so I'm so always grateful to Jerryfor creating the space for
not just me for 130,000 peoplethat have been impacted so far
(11:25):
by working wardrobesto also wear their own shoes.
I love that,I love that so you were just featured
in Orange Coast magazineas one of their 35 Kickass Women,
and you are a maverick in my mind
because you lead with vulnerability.
(11:45):
And having been a woman in a male
dominated field for pretty muchmy entire career, 30 years or so,
leading with vulnerability, that's reallynot something that you see very often,
because it takes a really strong personto be able to do that.
So how did you cometo this leadership style
(12:06):
and what does leadingwith vulnerability mean?
First of all, thank you.
Thanks for acknowledging that.
It's scary.
Thanks for acknowledgingthat I'm doing it.
I think there are so many thingsto say about this.
First of all, I, a lover of researchand data and I and the,
(12:27):
you know, early, early 2000sreally fell in love with the work
that Gallup
was doing about employee engagement andhow that was changing business outcomes
and the sort of bigtake away of all of that, for me, was
strengths based approaches
that we eachhave a constellation of strengths
(12:48):
that makes us who we are uniquely,and that you get so much more
when you invest in a strength versustrying to shore up a weakness.
That also, though,means that my constellation of who I am
and what makes me meis very different than everyone else.
And it is a scary,vulnerable thing to be ourselves
(13:11):
because we often fear judgment.
And what what'severyone else going to think?
Most of us have, you know, lotsof dysfunction or trauma in our lives.
And so we've learned the skill of peoplepleasing as a coping
mechanismthat, you know, gets us places right
and that people pleasingis for another person, not for oneself.
(13:32):
So when I think about the strengthsconstellation that I have,
I think Marianne Williamson talks aboutthis is natural intelligence, right?
This thing that we are just like seedsknow how to grow and become,
you know, whatever plant or whateverthey are. Right?
That we're, like, kind of equipped withthis intelligence that is uniquely us.
(13:52):
Why would I mess with that?
Why would I hold that back?
And if the data is telling me that leaninginto and shoring up those strengths
and really building around themis what reaps the most results,
then what a wasteit would be for me to not share those.
And then in ain a trusted capacity as a leader,
(14:16):
then it is my responsibilityto make sure that every other person
that I have influence with knows thatnot only are they invited to share
their unique constellation of strengths,their unique way of being,
but that it's really our duty.
And if we are showing up as our best
(14:37):
selves, constantly improving,but letting that unique,
contribution to the world shine,that's where the magic is.
And so it's scary often, Gina,
because I am who I amand that means there's no hiding.
It also means that I make mistakesand I own those mistakes like I've.
(14:59):
My intention is one thing,but my delivery is another.
I have to be accountable for that,but learn from that and use
it as also a palette for vulnerability.
I, often like to bragabout the things that I'm wrong about
with my team because I want them to knowthat I am fallible.
I am not perfect, and neither are you.
(15:20):
So let's be imperfect togetherand keep learning together,
but keep again inviting and showing upwith our our true selves.
And that's where trust is built.
Totally, absolutely.
Well, I, you know, being in the military,my father was a marine.
And so he the biggest the biggest jokethat God played on my dad was giving him
two girls, I think my sister was JeffreyJames, and I was Zain Lane.
(15:45):
He already had namespicked out for his boys.
Correct. Right, right.
And, and just being in the military,my leadership
style was lead from the front leadfrom the front, lead from the front.
Yeah,but I didn't become an authentic leader
until I couldn't lead from the front,because I would found myself
in a positionwhere I didn't have the technical skills.
(16:06):
I didn't have whatall of the people who I was,
I was lead,I didn't have the skills that they had.
So I had to come up with, okay, well,what are my superpowers?
So what are your superpowers?
You know, I think you actuallyjust kind of tapped into one of them.
I think.
I thinkthat because I am able to be myself
(16:28):
and not try to be someone else,that I lead from example,
and that invites vulnerabilityand it creates psychological safety.
And that becomes one of my superpowersis this ability to connect
with people quickly.
It's also because I,I am to be fully present and not be,
(16:49):
you know, talking to you,but looking around the room
or thinking about what the next thing
that I'm going to say is, I learnedso much from Stephen Covey about that.
Right.
Like seeking to understandfirst instead of being understood.
So I think one of my superpowersis, is really this ability to connect
with people.
And it's coming from a very open heartand a really pure sense of discovery,
(17:11):
curiosity, inquisitiveness, like,who are you, Gina?
This is so fun to get to know.
You like what's going on in there.
So I think that that creates this spacefor us to both be ourselves
and then that that trust in thatreal connection can, can come from that.
I also think that it's where,like, the foundation of relationships is
(17:34):
and then where the magic happensis figuring out again that power
and how is that power that we each possessnow going to come together
and create something elsethat didn't exist before?
So was there a point in your lifewhere you got it?
Because a lot of people go throughtheir entire careers without getting it?
(17:54):
Yeah, they because being vulnerablelike you said, is scary.
And there's that big fear elementas to why
it is people choose not to be vulnerable.
Why are they the lead fromthe front is really sort of polarizing
because, you know,
you're up front and everybody else,and then there's that disconnect.
But what you're talking aboutis this powerful place
(18:18):
where you'reokay with being vulnerable and
it works.
Right.
So I don't think I mean, so what forfor for our listener
who is at that point where they're like,okay, I'm
not necessarily leading authenticallybecause I've never been comfortable
being vulnerable.
(18:39):
What is your advice for them?
My advice for you is to see in you
what is that that natural intelligenceand to not question it
because it's easierto see it in other people.
And so maybe that's the place to startis to discover
in other people what is their power?
(19:00):
What is theirbe curious right to discover.
And by seeing that and other peopleto start to see that in yourself.
I also think that judgment playsa big role in this.
And we are, inundated with information
about how to judge ourselvesand has a judge other people.
Right.
We're really shown all the timelike what pretty looks like, what kind
(19:22):
looks like, what success looks like,and is that true for you?
I, you know, have a different shaped body.
I have a different looking career.
I have a different looking life than you.
And it's great for me.
It may not be what you want, but isn'tthat great for me that I have what I want?
Right?
And so I think discovering other peopleand yourself with a curiosity
(19:44):
and really an, an are
a wonder of, wow, look at that creation.
Just like we might marvel over,you know, an interesting succulent
or a rose or, you know, a constellation,that's naturally occurring
to see us as humans,as these naturally occurring miracles
(20:05):
discover that other peopleand then yourself.
Well, you are very curious.
And you are a self-proclaimed,student of life.
And so how does that mindset,the fact that you're always learning
because so many people kind of getstuck in what they're doing every day,
and this is it.
So, I mean, that's got to comewith a freedom
(20:28):
when you're viewing things from different,you know, areas and light.
Yeah, I always like I often say like,I don't know what I don't know,
but I want to know really.
Like I'm so interested.
You know, I think Gina James Clear really
introduced this conceptabout 1% improvement.
And in my life,
I, I really I'm a recovering perfectionistand I'm a recovering workaholic.
(20:51):
And I work on those things all the time.
To be able to stop it
enough to know that I am enough,that I did enough, that I had enough.
Like, those are some of my thingsthat are going on for me.
And so I think that 1% improvement ideathat he presents,
which is if you only improve1% every day over the course of a year,
(21:11):
it compounds like interest,and now you're at 37% better versus
if you got 1% worse at something, it'sonly like a decline of about 7%.
So I think for me, thisthese two kind of concepts
couple for me to knowthat I'm never going to arrive
like at some point I'm going to dieand I'm still going to not know stuff.
(21:32):
I'm going to finish this life experiencewith a full inbox and a full To-Do list.
And so while I'm here and embracingand accepting the imperfection
in every day,because every day is perfectly imperfect,
then I'm catalyzing the opportunity
to just be in it, to be in it
(21:55):
with, you know, a constant sort of horizon
of learning and improvement,a constant quest for discovery,
but also embracing of the it'snever going to be done.
It's, I'm never going to finish.
So as a recovering perfectionist,
how are you differentnow than you were before.
(22:16):
Oh my goodness.
This Mel Robbins book leftthat I'm like illustrates
it so much better than I could articulate.
But the idea that I keep hearing myselfalso by the way, like refer
to these people that I learn fromand I think, like, isn't that magical
that like, these little morselscome into your ethos
and then all of a suddenit's like a beacon for you,
(22:37):
letting it be okay that the way I approachit is different
than the way you approach it,but that we get to the same outcome.
I have learned so much about that
from leading so many different peopleand so many different teams like,
I will never forget one of theearly years,
a person that I supervised saying to me,Bonnie, I need you to let me fail.
(22:58):
I know that you're trying to protect me.
I know you're trying to not let me fall,but I need to fall.
Let me do it.
And that being an invitation of,oh, of course.
Go for it. Do it your way. Right.That's not my way.
Do it your way.
And it was fine, Gina. He was fine.
Everything worked out great.
Who was the biggest lessonin that story? Me.
That it didn'tneed to be the way that I saw it.
(23:19):
I think that those sort of momentsof literally understanding
that there are so many different waysto get to the endpoint.
I also think marriage has beenone of my best teachers.
We do everything opposite100% of the things we do.
We approach oppositeand we still get to the same place,
you know,
the laundry gets done and put away,but you can tell it
(23:40):
it's folded by two differentpeople and that's just fine.
Yeah.
So you know the go going backto the perfectionism thing
I think that is such an energy killer.
And I think our flaws arewhat make us extraordinary in my mind.
But people can't sometimes can't get pastthat.
(24:02):
Yeah.
It goes back to the judgmental nessthough too.
And I'mgoing to say some strong words here.
But I think, I think a lot of us strugglewith self-hatred, and we're taught it
from our culture that like, it'snot okay to be this or this or that.
And so we get inside of us,this I'm not worthy, I'm not enoughness.
And again,it's a people pleasing strategy, right?
(24:24):
Like, if I do it this way,if I, you know, aim for perfection,
then I will be loved.
And really the issue is do I love myself?
Do I feel worthy?
And again, I go back to like,you are here.
You are here.
That makes you worthy. You exist.
Starting there.
What are thewhat are the things that make you, you
(24:45):
you talk about growth for making mistakes.
So do you have any setbacksthat you want to talk about that showed
where you were able to grow from, from actually having that experience of failing?
I just want that's the best one, my dear.
The best one that you have. The best one.
I don't know that I have a best one. Gina.
(25:05):
I think, one of my favorite yoga
teachers talks about failureas first attempt in learning.
And so I think there are so many timesI've missed the mark
where I aimed in one direction,sometimes with positive results,
sometimes not right.
And that always depends on kindof what I was defining the outcome to be.
(25:25):
So not to question your question,
but I will say that I don't knowif that failure actually ever happened.
Right. It was always learning.
It was always learning how to show upbetter, how to show up differently,
how to be more myself,how to be, catalyzing the power
of other people around me.
I think about early on in my careerand, many of the mistakes that I made
(25:49):
where the growth points were, were notcapitalizing on people's strengths.
I had the wrong persondoing the wrong thing,
but as soon as that personwas in the right seat
doing the right thing,they were extraordinary.
There were often timestwo where if that wasn't the case,
it was like,oh, I guess we're just not a match.
(26:10):
Like,you know, like any relationship, right?
Like this employeeand this company culture
or this project or it's just it'sit's never going to work.
But that's okay.
We learned that.
Now you got to go find the thingthat will work for you.
I would say most of the thingsthat I have, experiences
as failures have been really mismatch,
(26:30):
mismatch of task to person, mismatch of,you know, culture and opportunity.
But also those were successes, right?
Because that was just a little sidestep.
And now we got back on the right course.
And you are here where you arebecause of it always.
Yeah.
I think, you know, you said something
that was really powerful to meand it was a question about regrets.
(26:51):
And you said somethingto the effect of like,
I don't live with regrets
because I wouldn'tbe right here, right now in this moment
if it wasn't for all of the momentsthat played into this.
And so, no, I don't I similarly, I don'tI don't think about these as failures.
They were they were all opportunitiesto learn and and hone.
You talked a little bitabout something that I am very
(27:11):
it is ingrained in my leadership style.
Everyone has to be on the right seaton the right.
Yeah.
That'sbecause sometimes you're on the wrong bus,
but in the right seat, sometimesyou're on the, you know, vice versa.
But that is so important.
So I in my career I have okay.
You're not this isn't for you.
(27:31):
Let's look over here.
And it's amazing when people finally geton the right seat in the right bus.
Yeah, the magic happens.
Have you seen that as well?
Oh, totally. Even for myself,I've seen it.
But I think from a leadershipperspective, we are
we are trusted servants, right?
We are trusted to have good judgmentabout these things
(27:54):
and to create the opportunityfor people to thrive doing what they do.
Well. And there are mistakes in that, too.
And I think the most important thingis always to be open to the pivot.
Right.
Okay, I see it.
I see this is not right.Let's make a shift.
And to engagein that open, honest conversation about,
(28:15):
I see that you're not able to perform
at your peak herebecause I'm not getting what I want.
I bet you're not getting what you want,either.
And having those vulnerable,trusting conversations is also
where the magic happens,because someone can
then share with you that like, yeah,this is not the bus for me.
I thought it was like it looked likeit was on paper but it's not.
Or it could be this is the right placebut it's just not the right role.
(28:39):
I would do betterif I was fill in the blank
and to be able to really use those.
I think about it like puzzles.
You have all these puzzle piecesto make the picture.
Yeah, I agree, I agree 100%.
Plus, as leaders were able to perform somuch better when we're in the right seat.
But again, how many timeshave you been a leader
where you haven't been in the right seat,but you have to lead anyway?
(29:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's the hard part.
So what advice do you havefor people who may be in that position?
I would imagine
finding a, finding a way to the right seaton the right bus.
I think it's really about using your voiceand really being able, to speak truth.
Often speaking truth to poweris what the where the issue is.
(29:21):
And I think from those conversations,I've often discovered
that we were both aiming in a directionwe didn't necessarily need or want to go.
And that could be converging.
It could be diverging, right?
It could be converging to, oh,we're going to head there together.
Or it could be we're going to go separateways.
And both are good discoveries.
The earlier the better.
(29:43):
But I thinkspeaking truth to that discomfort and I,
I see this so much at working wardrobes.
It is so hard to ask for help.
It is probably the biggest barriermost of our clients face.
Is that just that initial ask for help
on the otherside, when you're the one asking for help.
If I were to say, you know, Gina,will you help me with something? Right?
(30:04):
Like you're alreadyprepared to say yes, right?
We don't think about itfrom the recipient's mindset.
We just think about itfrom the fear of getting past,
you know, our ownsort of being courageous.
On the other side of that,people want to help.
They want to be of service.
And so I think that is also similarin this situation where if you can speak
(30:25):
the truth, if you can ask the question,are we really going to do this thing?
Because I really think that we should bedoing this thing and to be open and brave
and vulnerable to have that conversationthat's where the opening is, right?
Because it can become then, oh, let'sget on the same path or no, you're right.
We're going in different directionsand we can either realign or separate.
(30:47):
And where do you get this confidence.
Where does your confidence come from.
Oh my
goodness I think about it actuallymore as a surrender for the confidence.
That's why I'm laughing.
Yeah.
I am probably the least confident person.
On the inside I'm constantly questioning my self-doubt voice is really loud.
(31:08):
And as I shared, I'm, I'm constantlyin this sort of recovery of perfection
and constantly.
It's enough. Bonnie, you were enough.
You did enough.
Like, I'm sure there's 52 other things
I'm going to wishI said during this conversation. Right.
And I'm going to be telling myself.But it was enough.
It was enough. It was enough.
I think that I come across as confident
(31:29):
because I'm just comfortable in my ownskin.
Enough.
I'm comfortableenough for you to see that.
I'm just trying to be myself.
And that's
coming across as confidence to youbecause you want to feel that way, too.
This frequency, this energy fieldthat I'm on, I work hard to harness it.
(31:50):
I do a lot of practice in my lifeto make sure that my soul is fed
so that I can show up as my best self,one of the best,
executive presence, leadership trainingsI ever went to was 30 minutes.
It's actually availablefor free on the Working Wardrobes website,
and it was provided by Wendy Nickerson,who, was a board member at the time.
(32:12):
She's the at the time,the plant manager at Edwards Lifesciences,
and she talked about all the thingsshe learned through coaching and
and her leadership development.
This one concept I'm going to share isjust one of the 30 minutes of Just Magic.
This show is about a triangle
and the triangle of your careerhaving a foundation base.
And that foundation base is where you'rea solid contributor, right?
(32:33):
You are doing the the work,
and that next layer of your careeris the influencing layer, the layer
where you're able to shift thingsand kind of move
that direction and influence people,help them become their better selves.
And at the pinnacle of the careeris where you be, where you are.
And she talked about how important it is,how we show up.
(32:55):
Well, for me to show up well meansI have to take care of myself well.
And for me,that means a daily exercise routine.
And it also means, some habits that I've developed.
And I stack my habits so that I am doingthe things that are everything from the
my nutrition and my supplementsis literally how I care for the vessel
that takes my my, my souland my brain everywhere.
(33:19):
To be able to think clearly, to be ableto be aligned with where I am telling you,
I have a tendency to people, please,I have a tendency to perfection.
For me to show up imperfectly,vulnerably is an effort that I hone.
It's something I work to harness so that aI am coming across to you as confident.
(33:41):
But it's really just me being me.
But what is your workplace look like?
I'm curious as towhat does it look like when the CEO
is vulnerableor is willing to be vulnerable?
What whatwhat type of environment does that create?
We laugh together, we cry together.
We journey together.
(34:01):
And I think that the workplace environmentreally you feel and see the similar
alignment amongst a group of peopleand the alignment is how we show up.
We hire employees and volunteersbased on our four core values.
One of those core valuesis thoughtful relator.
That we all care about discoveringwho each other is
(34:24):
and tapping and flexingwho I am to meet you where you are.
That we don't judgepeople based on their circumstances,
their history,but on where they are today.
We're humble achievers.
We leave our ego at the doorbecause we know that nothing happens
unless we're all contributingour unique contributions to it.
And we acknowledge this all the timethat this one thing wouldn't be possible
(34:48):
for this one clientwe served if it wasn't for all 40
other people doing what they do well,from answering the phone
to sorting the donationsto getting them all of these pieces.
Another one of our valuesthat you see is integrity.
And it's not just thatwe do the right thing, but
we talk about it like I think about itlike earthquakes and structural integrity.
(35:09):
We're building things to last.
We all care about doing what we do today,not in a way that fixes it for a minute,
but that gives you the skillsthat you can sustain on your own.
And we're building systemsthat working wardrobes
like the infrastructure of the company,
but also for the people we serveso that they will last a lifetime.
We teach transferable skillsbecause we want them
(35:31):
to be able to use across industries,across occupations.
This is true for our staff as well.
And our final value that we hire forand that you see exhibited
and you feel it is grit.
We don't talk about grit, though.
It's like the white knuckleget through it. Grit.
We talk about it.
Oh, sense of adventure, grit.
Like I don't knowwhat's around that corner.
(35:53):
But imagine you're on a mountainbike on the trail and it's like,
I know I'm going to get there,whatever next.
Oh what's that?Oh, how are we going to get over that?
And so there's a real sense of,
teamwork and camaraderiethat comes with all of that.
But those values are pervasive throughoutevery morsel of the physical space.
And really where you you see it and feelit is how we treat each other.
(36:16):
And the
outcome, I mean,when you have a solid team like that,
and that's why it's so importantthat trust, that vulnerability,
that reliance on others and helping othersand accepting help from others.
I mean, that's what a true teamis all about and community too.
It's just like a bigger versionof it, right.
(36:38):
And so I think about that Gandhi quote.Right.
Like to, to be the changethat you're seeking to think about, like
how do you want people to treat you?
Well, show up that way.
One of the big lessons
I learned in college,just from a professor, was really about
when you walk down the street,what makes you feel better?
Do you feel betterwhen someone makes eye contact and smiles?
(36:59):
Yeah, I feel a lot better.
So I guess what I do a lot of,I make a lot of eye contact.
I give a lot of smiles.
And I often think about thatat the grocery store line and, you know,
traffic, how we treat each other,strangers also matters.
It's creating the communitythat we swim in.
And so if I'm honking and being aggressiveand doing things like
that's an invitationto treat me that way, no thank you.
(37:23):
Yeah.
That is very that is very true.
I mean when you think about it, whenyou think about what it is that you want,
so as the CEO,I mean you're at the top of your game.
What lessons or what advice do you have
for peopletrying to get into those big roles?
Oh, well, I would start outby being really clear about what you want.
(37:47):
Like, why?
What is it that you're really after,you know, and when you were saying that,
I was thinking like a little bit shirking.
I don't really like the title.
I think there's like all this connotationthat comes with the roles that we assign.
And in the world, what are you after?
Are you after, you know, making an impact?
Are you after inspiring people?
(38:07):
Are you afterwhat's the thing that you're really after?
Because there are so many roles and ways
to achieve thatoutcome that you're seeking.
If it's to lead,then I my advice would be to to make
make the mistakes, acknowledge them,let them be known and let people know
not just that you made the mistake,but what you learned from it. I,
(38:32):
more recently, you know, we
had an event that one of my colleagues,I had a vision for the event.
She had a completely different visionfor the event.
Thank goodness we did not listen to me.
And we listened to her,and it was magnificent.
Gina,I make sure to tell that story often,
because I want people to knowthat I make mistakes.
(38:52):
I'm not always going to be right.
I'm often asking,am I wrong that did that?
And I'll say something right.
I'm constantly inviting inputand that openness.
And I think if the leadership roleis what you're looking for,
then to learn a lot and speak a lot of it,it's not just the influence, right?
Because by sharing our lessons,
(39:13):
we both get to learn from themand make new mistakes.
But I also think that it is really to be
a leaderis inviting you to be a good human.
And you were talkingabout leading from the front.
I talk about lead by example,but I want to be the change
I'm seeking in the world.
I want to be that place where you dofeel safe and that you can be yourself.
(39:36):
That might not be another leader's aim,and that's fine.
But whatever you're going to do,be a good one.
And so aim for what it isyou're really seeking,
knowing that it may not be that role.
It might be another waythat you can achieve that outcome
and really show up as a good human.
And there's opportunitiesto lead in every aspect of life,
(39:57):
regardless of what level you are.
When I was at la metro,some of the best leaders
that I observed at lametro were the bus operators.
Because the bus operators,they were the captain of their ship.
They ran that tight ship. Yeah.
And they had every leadershipskill imaginable
(40:19):
because they were dealing with peopleevery day.
They were dealing with traffic every day.
They had to get peopleto where they needed to be on time.
But you, it doesn't matterwhat position you're in.
If you want to be a leader, startright now where you're at.
Yeah. With you.
May I share a quick story.
Yeah. Of course we have a client.
You just mentioned the bus operatorand I have to share this story.
(40:43):
I met Emmanuel, on the day that he got his citizenship
for the United States,and he was so proudly displaying
the certificate, he's literallywalking around the office with it.
His dream was to create that culture,
a workplace culture on a busthat would allow him to do what he does,
loves driving, have the opportunityto have that power, that control,
(41:07):
to create moment makers,you know, day makers like
I might be the first smile and eyesyou get today, right?
Getting on that bus.
And maybe you're not looking forward
to the day ahead, but you're goingto start to look forward to seeing me.
Yeah, right.
Yeah. That's power.
We have to light up other people.
And that ideathat Emmanuel came to this country
(41:28):
wanting the American dream, right.
And he's had barrierafter barrier, obstacle after obstacle.
He is living out of his car and pursuingthis certification with working wardrobes,
help getting the supporthe needs for critical needs assistance.
And ultimately, what's he doing?
He's giving back every daythat he creates that little,
(41:51):
that bubble, that utopia on the busis under his control
to create and give peoplenot just a safe ride,
but the opportunity to be in a little,I don't know, a little nest.
Yeah.
And the confidence that comes with that,I mean if you, if you want to be a leader
watch a bus operator. Right. Definitely.
I love that you see that another.
(42:11):
Oh my gosh.
And one time I was doing a ride along withsome of my transit security officers
and I got on the bus.
I always introduced myself
as the chief safetyand security officer gave him my card.
So I got on a bus.
Female bus operator gave her my card.She just looked at me.
I go back to the backand then next thing you know, I hear Jane,
And I'm like, what?
And I'm like, running up. Yes.What can I do for you?
(42:33):
You know, because that's the way.
And she want to know,what am I doing to keep her safe?
What am I doing for this?What am I doing for that?
And I just absolutely love that.
So you can be a leader anywhere you go.
Amen to that. Yeah.
So what can we do to help youin this amazing mission that you do?
Thank you for asking.
You know, I mentioned some of the ideas.
(42:54):
If you have time, if you have a talentor if you have dollars, treasure.
These are all three ways that you cancontribute to working wardrobes.
Mission.
We are all wearing well, you know, onthe outside world we're wearing clothes.
If you are
done with those gently loved clothesand are ready to give them a second life,
keep them out of landfills,but use them to help people get jobs.
(43:15):
Donate your clothes, your accessories,your shoes, your purses, your jewelry,
any of these items, scarves, ties
all of it is put to good usethat working wardrobes.
Another way you can help is, you know,you might have a training
that you do all the time.
Maybe it's like your sales team training.
Maybe it's your leadership training.
If you would offer that to usand what is recorded,
(43:38):
it could be part of our digital librarythat we offer to our clients.
Maybe it's something for our staffanother way,
and probably the most efficient wayto help is to donate dollars.
Those dollars literally make it
so that our clients do not payfor the services they receive.
And sometimes the thing that they needmost is a car repair.
Sometimes the thing they needmost is help with the deposit for their
(43:58):
for their rent.
Sometimes those dollars are literallyto help that career
navigator guide a person for six weeks,six months.
Again, we're backsix years later for a promotion, right.
This, long term relationshipthat we have with our clients requires
people who we can count onto lead from their seat
and help that personwho is being so brave asking for help.
(44:22):
Another way you can helpis if you're an employer, to let us know
what jobs you have, that our clientsmight be able to apply for.
And you're going to know thatthis candidate was prepared at working.
Wardrobes are a good quality candidate.
We have always the need for stylists.
There's this magical momentI'm thinking about Emmanuel's now,
you know, as he's in that bus drivercertification training program,
(44:45):
he had his wardrobe appointmentwhere he get styled
head to toe into an outfit interviewready.
Seeing Emanuelsee himself in the mirror in
that suit was likeseeing his future in a ball, right?
He saw a physical manifestation
of what was possibleand that what he'd been dreaming of.
(45:06):
If you have a passion for fashion
and you want to help stylepeople in these beautiful outfits
that make them interview ready,that's a wonderful way to give back.
If you're a corporationand you want to do a volunteer activity
as a group, that's another great way.
Our donation center processesover half a million items every year,
and we need help doing that,making sure there's all the buttons
(45:26):
and there's no ring around the collarand all of the things.
We also have stores, retail storeswhere people can help and,
you know, style customersor you can help on sort of the back end.
Right, restocking, even, you know,as the cash register, if you will.
There are a million waysyou can help working wardrobes.
I just invite you to check outour website, Working wardrobes.org,
(45:49):
and you can probably get a few ideasor more of ways
that you can make a difference.
And I will be there at CampPendleton styling people.
Yes, that'll be fun.
I'm looking forward to that.
So much magical.
It's absolutely magicalto have that kind of.
It's brief but deep.
And I think, you know,when we put on clothes,
(46:09):
they're like a representationof us, right?
And our our brainsare we make a first impression once
our brains are built tofor survival. Right.
Like sort of the reptilian sideof our brain is, you know, fight, fight.
Yes. No. In, out.
And that is indicativein the first impression,
because you have to catalyze that momentand that reptilian
(46:31):
side of the other person's brainthat's making snap judgments.
Are you safe? Are you good? Right.
So when you think about styling a person,
it's really creating a doorway.
You're making a physical manifestation ofwhat they want to show you on the inside.
And to help them make the most of that
first impressioncreates opportunity in that moment.
(46:54):
How we represent ourselves on the outside,it's just a manifestation of
what's inside.
I just gave a Ted talk on Sunday
and it was talking about breakthroughsuccess, and I had three Maverick moves.
So tell me a maverick movethat you have made
or someone can make in order to get closerto that breakthrough success.
(47:16):
Oh, you know,I think we've talked about one of mine,
which was succeeding a founder.
Pretty,pretty brave to, step into those shoes
or to wear my own shoes alongside.
Another Maverick move I madewas actually coming here to California.
I came without a job, without a business,without a real source of income.
(47:38):
And that was a pretty vulnerable move.
But I knew that it was.
I had faith that it was going to be okay,and that I would find my way.
What I discovered was that I foundthat way by connecting with people.
For me, coming to a strange strangerin a strange land, I came to this place
not knowing anyone,and just made a very conscious choice
(48:01):
to build a networkby joining a community of faith.
And from there,this web of relationships has become
not just the core of my relationshipshere,
but also the place that my my career
kind of got its legs, again, if you will,in a totally different industry.
I was working in the governmentfor a school district before I was leading
(48:23):
all of that, everythingthat was outside of the classroom.
So anything that was entrepreneurialto make money for the district,
all the entitlement grants, allthe tuition based programs, all of that.
And I came here thinking,I'll start a business
and I'll do more training and morestrategic planning, things that I loved.
But I think that the purposethat I needed to live
(48:43):
out was different,and I was able to do those things.
But in the context of a larger position,I ended up working there
for 12 yearsin lots of different capacities.
But the Maverick movewas taking the leap of faith and knowing
that I was taking really a bet on myselfthat I would figure it out,
that I would be of service,that the the opportunity to be of service.
(49:06):
I would find it.
It would find methat leap of faith with purpose,
knowing that my purpose,my future would be fulfilled.
The reason why I wanted to have you onthis show is because
you are a giant ball of light,and you not only help
the community, you helpeveryone who comes into contact with you.
And so it has been a pleasureto have you on the show.
(49:28):
Bonnie, thank you for coming.
Oh, Sheila, thank you.
Right back at you big time.
Thank you for making Maverick Moveswith Gina
L Osborne is producedand edited by Zille Media.
Connect with us on social media at Gina L
osborne.com/making maverick moves.
Don't miss an episode.
Subscribe to making Maverick moveswherever you get your podcasts.
Today's maverick move is all aboutcourageous succession, purpose driven
leadership and redefining what it means
to step into a legends shoes.
Our guest, Bonnie Palmer, became
only the second CEO of Working Wardrobesin Orange County, California
in 2022, following the iconic founderJerry Rosen,
(00:24):
who held the rolefor an astonishing 32 years.
But Bonnie didn't just fill a role.
She brought her own brand of bold,compassionate leadership to the table.
With more than 25 years of experiencein government and nonprofit sectors
and a masters in family resourcesand human development, Bonnie leads
(00:45):
with heart, humility and an unwavering
belief in the power of people.
She is a connector,a culture builder, and a student of life.
Today, we'll talk aboutwhat it really takes to carry on a legacy
while forging your own path,what it means to lead authentically.
And the maverick moves Bonniemakes every day to empower individuals
(01:11):
and communities through the lifechanging mission of working wardrobes.
My name is Gina L Osborneand I'm an Army veteran.
I spent six years during the endof the Cold War as a intelligence agent.
I was appointed as an FBI agent,and during my 22 year
career worked everythingfrom Asian organized crime to terrorism.
(01:35):
I became the assistant special agentin charge of cyber and computer forensics.
And then I came out of retirementand spent two years
as the safety and security officerat la metro.
Now I'm here to helpyou make your maverick move.
Welcome to the show, Bonnie.
Oh, thank you so much, Gina.
It's so fun to be here with you.
(01:55):
For those out there who are not familiarwith working wardrobes,
tell us about your missionat Working Wardrobes.
We believe that every person has a purposeand that it is truly our honor
to help people harness their purposeand offer it in to the world.
We meet people oftenafter they've experienced significant life
(02:16):
and circumstance challenges,and they are all
and have this one thing in common,which is they are overcoming some barrier,
usually more than one,as they aim to achieve gainful employment.
So we work with peopleon a very individualized
basis to help them identifywhat are the assets
you already have to promote in a resume,in an interview, in the marketplace.
(02:40):
And then what we discover iswhat is the goal?
What is it that you want to bewhen you grow up?
And we use different tools to assess that
including guiding real worldcareer exploration.
Sometimes we think we have a good ideaand that what we think about that career
is going to be amazing.
And then you find out like, oh, I have toget up at four in the morning to do that.
(03:01):
Maybe not. Right.
So we literally pair our clientsalso with people who are in the jobs
they are interested in to find outmore about that.
We guide our clients through certificationtraining,
soft skills trainings, all sorts of whatI think of as intellectual property.
What are the things that you don't knowthat you need to know to be successful
(03:22):
in that career?
We work with our clients as a finishingtouch of preparation for those interviews.
It's literally in our name, right?Working wardrobes.
We have one on one personalized stylingappointments where our clients literally
have a physical exteriormanifestation of the dream
they are creating,and they literally have that moment
where they see what's possiblein the mirror looking back at them.
(03:46):
We then work with our clientsto match them with job opportunities,
and that could be an apprenticeship
or work experience programor a permanent position.
And then we are in the long termrelationship business.
So when they are ready to seeka salary advancement or a promotion,
we are there with them for thator even another career pivot or change.
So soup to nuts.
(04:06):
We are helping people overcome barriersto achieve gainful employment,
and we're reaching over 5000 peopleon that journey every year.
That is terrific.
And what I love aboutthis is you are really engaged
with a community that is nearand dear to my heart and our veterans.
So do you want to talk about how it isthat you help the veterans?
Oh, I'd love to.
(04:26):
I'm married to one and the child of one,so it's also very near
and dear to my heart.
I think about what it takes to sign
up to be of service to the community.
And then I add this layer of.
And I'm willing to put my life on the linefor that.
I am so awedby that dedication and commitment
(04:47):
and have just great, respectand honor to those who serve.
So and working wardrobes it is trulyan honor to serve those who serve.
Just, next month,we're going to be aboard Camp Pendleton
and offering a service
for military spouses to preparefor the transition to the civilian world.
We have a whole team of veteransthat literally only serve veterans.
(05:11):
And they do this work out of the county'sVeterans Service office.
So, anyone in Orange Countycoming to get help
can literally be connectedto working wardrobes in that regard.
We do so many things to prepare
and to help our military navigatethis transition.
Everything from.
How do you translate that
military occupational specialtyinto a civilian speaker resumé?
(05:35):
How do you literally promotethe skills and assets that you gained
in the military,
but hone honing in on the partsthat you really want to keep doing right?
So yeah, we, we help out
hundreds of veteransevery year, navigate the same transition.
Something that kind of struck mewhen I came to working wardrobes
though, that was a little bit differentthan what I thought coming in was.
(05:58):
I had all of our militarylike on this pedestal, you know, I just, I
what what can I do? What can I do? Right.
And what I didn't knowthen is how similar their experience
is to the experience of a personwho was formerly incarcerated,
and how navigating these transitions
is a very similar journey to to voyage.
(06:20):
How do you think about the sortof controlled environment, pieces of,
you know, there
you have a lot of control and, you know,your own personal decision making,
but being in the context of a communitythat is
prescribed is very different.
And it can be very overwhelmingto navigate at the same time.
I have to procure my groceries,I have to prepare the meals.
(06:42):
I have to take care of my rent,my utilities, like all of these things
that were automatics, incarcerationor in military service.
Right.
And you add on to thatthe mental health, challenges
that many people face,all of us face every day,
but that you add these layers of lifeor death, you add these layers of impact,
(07:03):
and many come out with posttraumatic stress.
And,
those are exacerbating the challengesof everyday life on a significant level.
Right.
Well,I know working wardrobes, having lived
in the Orange County community,everybody knows who Jerry Rosen is.
Jerry was the founder and CEOof Working Wardrobes
(07:25):
for about 32 years, 34 yearsalong the long time.
And when she retired,everyone was wondering
who were they goingto get to fill her shoes?
I was at a fundraising eventwhere Jerry told everybody
she needed a tractor in the audienceand someone says, I'll pay for it.
It was like a $30,000 tractor.
So that was the type of impactthat she had.
(07:48):
So how what is it like coming in as a asa leader, as the CEO of an organization,
knowing that you had somebody who hadbeen there for the last three decades
doing everything that she had done.
Jerry is an amazing human.
And whenever I think about Jerry,I think about human power, the power
we each possess to create an impact,to make a difference in the world.
(08:11):
And, you know, in 1990, Jerry
chose to use her power to help womenwho had experienced domestic violence
and dreamt of creating daysof transformation, a day of self-esteem
and opportunity for women who were notfeeling great about themselves
to see themselves for their potential,their purpose
(08:32):
in a new light, and to helpbring the resources around them.
The support system,the the confidence building,
but not just on the outside,on the inside too, that
they could be self-sufficientand create self-sustaining success.
A person who is
able to own their powerand share their purpose in the world.
Right? The sky's the limit.
(08:52):
And I think, you know,Jerry is a small, physical person.
But you're right. Her shoes are huge.
And she created what we know todayas working wardrobes.
And it's a household nameand it's a household name
because there are so many waysthat the organization
invites people to share their powerto make a difference.
Many engage as clothing donors, right?
(09:13):
This is a huge part of how,you know, people sort of get to know
working wardrobes.
Often it's through a clothing drive.
Those accessories,those clothes, those shoes ultimately
outfit our clients in those interviewoutfits, right?
Corporations partnerwith us and Jerry Bambridge.
So many relationships with corporationsbecause not only can
they hire our clients,but they can help train our clients.
(09:34):
They can also bring dollarsand volunteerism into the mission.
And that's a great way for corporationsto live their values.
Jerry also was,you know, incredibly impactful in
and catalyzing the power of the individualto make a difference,
whether it was volunteering as ayou know, I'm a retired HR professional,
and I want to help coach candidates on howthat is the interview, to volunteering.
(09:56):
I have a passion for fashion andI want to volunteer in one of your stores.
Right.
Jerry shoes were so big becauseshe invited people to walk in their shoes
and to let their shoesbe as big as they were.
When I was selected to be her successor
at the end of 2021, I got to even
observe Jerry leading the organizationfor the last few months.
(10:19):
And she is, you know, bigger than lifeagain, but a small person.
So I think what Jerry brings intothe conversation is a huge legacy
of what it is to take your powerand to use it for good.
I personally was invitedby our board chair when I was hired
(10:40):
to wear my own shoes,that the shoes that I was stepping
into were not going to be anyone'sbut my own.
And when I think back on this,you know, as a founder of an organization
who ran it for 31 years, I think it's
almost impossible to think ofanother person walking in those shoes.
Isn't it?
(11:00):
I mean, this is not like,you know, the red slippers and
The Wizard of Oz like this.
My point
is, when we wear our own shoes,when we own and harness
our own power,that's really where the magic happens.
And so I'm so always grateful to Jerryfor creating the space for
not just me for 130,000 peoplethat have been impacted so far
(11:25):
by working wardrobesto also wear their own shoes.
I love that,I love that so you were just featured
in Orange Coast magazineas one of their 35 Kickass Women,
and you are a maverick in my mind
because you lead with vulnerability.
(11:45):
And having been a woman in a male
dominated field for pretty muchmy entire career, 30 years or so,
leading with vulnerability, that's reallynot something that you see very often,
because it takes a really strong personto be able to do that.
So how did you cometo this leadership style
(12:06):
and what does leadingwith vulnerability mean?
First of all, thank you.
Thanks for acknowledging that.
It's scary.
Thanks for acknowledgingthat I'm doing it.
I think there are so many thingsto say about this.
First of all, I, a lover of researchand data and I and the,
(12:27):
you know, early, early 2000sreally fell in love with the work
that Gallup
was doing about employee engagement andhow that was changing business outcomes
and the sort of bigtake away of all of that, for me, was
strengths based approaches
that we eachhave a constellation of strengths
(12:48):
that makes us who we are uniquely,and that you get so much more
when you invest in a strength versustrying to shore up a weakness.
That also, though,means that my constellation of who I am
and what makes me meis very different than everyone else.
And it is a scary,vulnerable thing to be ourselves
(13:11):
because we often fear judgment.
And what what'severyone else going to think?
Most of us have, you know, lotsof dysfunction or trauma in our lives.
And so we've learned the skill of peoplepleasing as a coping
mechanismthat, you know, gets us places right
and that people pleasingis for another person, not for oneself.
(13:32):
So when I think about the strengthsconstellation that I have,
I think Marianne Williamson talks aboutthis is natural intelligence, right?
This thing that we are just like seedsknow how to grow and become,
you know, whatever plant or whateverthey are. Right?
That we're, like, kind of equipped withthis intelligence that is uniquely us.
(13:52):
Why would I mess with that?
Why would I hold that back?
And if the data is telling me that leaninginto and shoring up those strengths
and really building around themis what reaps the most results,
then what a wasteit would be for me to not share those.
And then in ain a trusted capacity as a leader,
(14:16):
then it is my responsibilityto make sure that every other person
that I have influence with knows thatnot only are they invited to share
their unique constellation of strengths,their unique way of being,
but that it's really our duty.
And if we are showing up as our best
(14:37):
selves, constantly improving,but letting that unique,
contribution to the world shine,that's where the magic is.
And so it's scary often, Gina,
because I am who I amand that means there's no hiding.
It also means that I make mistakesand I own those mistakes like I've.
(14:59):
My intention is one thing,but my delivery is another.
I have to be accountable for that,but learn from that and use
it as also a palette for vulnerability.
I, often like to bragabout the things that I'm wrong about
with my team because I want them to knowthat I am fallible.
I am not perfect, and neither are you.
(15:20):
So let's be imperfect togetherand keep learning together,
but keep again inviting and showing upwith our our true selves.
And that's where trust is built.
Totally, absolutely.
Well, I, you know, being in the military,my father was a marine.
And so he the biggest the biggest jokethat God played on my dad was giving him
two girls, I think my sister was JeffreyJames, and I was Zain Lane.
(15:45):
He already had namespicked out for his boys.
Correct. Right, right.
And, and just being in the military,my leadership
style was lead from the front leadfrom the front, lead from the front.
Yeah,but I didn't become an authentic leader
until I couldn't lead from the front,because I would found myself
in a positionwhere I didn't have the technical skills.
(16:06):
I didn't have whatall of the people who I was,
I was lead,I didn't have the skills that they had.
So I had to come up with, okay, well,what are my superpowers?
So what are your superpowers?
You know, I think you actuallyjust kind of tapped into one of them.
I think.
I thinkthat because I am able to be myself
(16:28):
and not try to be someone else,that I lead from example,
and that invites vulnerabilityand it creates psychological safety.
And that becomes one of my superpowersis this ability to connect
with people quickly.
It's also because I,I am to be fully present and not be,
(16:49):
you know, talking to you,but looking around the room
or thinking about what the next thing
that I'm going to say is, I learnedso much from Stephen Covey about that.
Right.
Like seeking to understandfirst instead of being understood.
So I think one of my superpowersis, is really this ability to connect
with people.
And it's coming from a very open heartand a really pure sense of discovery,
(17:11):
curiosity, inquisitiveness, like,who are you, Gina?
This is so fun to get to know.
You like what's going on in there.
So I think that that creates this spacefor us to both be ourselves
and then that that trust in thatreal connection can, can come from that.
I also think that it's where,like, the foundation of relationships is
(17:34):
and then where the magic happensis figuring out again that power
and how is that power that we each possessnow going to come together
and create something elsethat didn't exist before?
So was there a point in your lifewhere you got it?
Because a lot of people go throughtheir entire careers without getting it?
(17:54):
Yeah, they because being vulnerablelike you said, is scary.
And there's that big fear elementas to why
it is people choose not to be vulnerable.
Why are they the lead fromthe front is really sort of polarizing
because, you know,
you're up front and everybody else,and then there's that disconnect.
But what you're talking aboutis this powerful place
(18:18):
where you'reokay with being vulnerable and
it works.
Right.
So I don't think I mean, so what forfor for our listener
who is at that point where they're like,okay, I'm
not necessarily leading authenticallybecause I've never been comfortable
being vulnerable.
(18:39):
What is your advice for them?
My advice for you is to see in you
what is that that natural intelligenceand to not question it
because it's easierto see it in other people.
And so maybe that's the place to startis to discover
in other people what is their power?
(19:00):
What is theirbe curious right to discover.
And by seeing that and other peopleto start to see that in yourself.
I also think that judgment playsa big role in this.
And we are, inundated with information
about how to judge ourselvesand has a judge other people.
Right.
We're really shown all the timelike what pretty looks like, what kind
(19:22):
looks like, what success looks like,and is that true for you?
I, you know, have a different shaped body.
I have a different looking career.
I have a different looking life than you.
And it's great for me.
It may not be what you want, but isn'tthat great for me that I have what I want?
Right?
And so I think discovering other peopleand yourself with a curiosity
(19:44):
and really an, an are
a wonder of, wow, look at that creation.
Just like we might marvel over,you know, an interesting succulent
or a rose or, you know, a constellation,that's naturally occurring
to see us as humans,as these naturally occurring miracles
(20:05):
discover that other peopleand then yourself.
Well, you are very curious.
And you are a self-proclaimed,student of life.
And so how does that mindset,the fact that you're always learning
because so many people kind of getstuck in what they're doing every day,
and this is it.
So, I mean, that's got to comewith a freedom
(20:28):
when you're viewing things from different,you know, areas and light.
Yeah, I always like I often say like,I don't know what I don't know,
but I want to know really.
Like I'm so interested.
You know, I think Gina James Clear really
introduced this conceptabout 1% improvement.
And in my life,
I, I really I'm a recovering perfectionistand I'm a recovering workaholic.
(20:51):
And I work on those things all the time.
To be able to stop it
enough to know that I am enough,that I did enough, that I had enough.
Like, those are some of my thingsthat are going on for me.
And so I think that 1% improvement ideathat he presents,
which is if you only improve1% every day over the course of a year,
(21:11):
it compounds like interest,and now you're at 37% better versus
if you got 1% worse at something, it'sonly like a decline of about 7%.
So I think for me, thisthese two kind of concepts
couple for me to knowthat I'm never going to arrive
like at some point I'm going to dieand I'm still going to not know stuff.
(21:32):
I'm going to finish this life experiencewith a full inbox and a full To-Do list.
And so while I'm here and embracingand accepting the imperfection
in every day,because every day is perfectly imperfect,
then I'm catalyzing the opportunity
to just be in it, to be in it
(21:55):
with, you know, a constant sort of horizon
of learning and improvement,a constant quest for discovery,
but also embracing of the it'snever going to be done.
It's, I'm never going to finish.
So as a recovering perfectionist,
how are you differentnow than you were before.
(22:16):
Oh my goodness.
This Mel Robbins book leftthat I'm like illustrates
it so much better than I could articulate.
But the idea that I keep hearing myselfalso by the way, like refer
to these people that I learn fromand I think, like, isn't that magical
that like, these little morselscome into your ethos
and then all of a suddenit's like a beacon for you,
(22:37):
letting it be okay that the way I approachit is different
than the way you approach it,but that we get to the same outcome.
I have learned so much about that
from leading so many different peopleand so many different teams like,
I will never forget one of theearly years,
a person that I supervised saying to me,Bonnie, I need you to let me fail.
(22:58):
I know that you're trying to protect me.
I know you're trying to not let me fall,but I need to fall.
Let me do it.
And that being an invitation of,oh, of course.
Go for it. Do it your way. Right.That's not my way.
Do it your way.
And it was fine, Gina. He was fine.
Everything worked out great.
Who was the biggest lessonin that story? Me.
That it didn'tneed to be the way that I saw it.
(23:19):
I think that those sort of momentsof literally understanding
that there are so many different waysto get to the endpoint.
I also think marriage has beenone of my best teachers.
We do everything opposite100% of the things we do.
We approach oppositeand we still get to the same place,
you know,
the laundry gets done and put away,but you can tell it
(23:40):
it's folded by two differentpeople and that's just fine.
Yeah.
So you know the go going backto the perfectionism thing
I think that is such an energy killer.
And I think our flaws arewhat make us extraordinary in my mind.
But people can't sometimes can't get pastthat.
(24:02):
Yeah.
It goes back to the judgmental nessthough too.
And I'mgoing to say some strong words here.
But I think, I think a lot of us strugglewith self-hatred, and we're taught it
from our culture that like, it'snot okay to be this or this or that.
And so we get inside of us,this I'm not worthy, I'm not enoughness.
And again,it's a people pleasing strategy, right?
(24:24):
Like, if I do it this way,if I, you know, aim for perfection,
then I will be loved.
And really the issue is do I love myself?
Do I feel worthy?
And again, I go back to like,you are here.
You are here.
That makes you worthy. You exist.
Starting there.
What are thewhat are the things that make you, you
(24:45):
you talk about growth for making mistakes.
So do you have any setbacksthat you want to talk about that showed
where you were able to grow from, from actually having that experience of failing?
I just want that's the best one, my dear.
The best one that you have. The best one.
I don't know that I have a best one. Gina.
(25:05):
I think, one of my favorite yoga
teachers talks about failureas first attempt in learning.
And so I think there are so many timesI've missed the mark
where I aimed in one direction,sometimes with positive results,
sometimes not right.
And that always depends on kindof what I was defining the outcome to be.
(25:25):
So not to question your question,
but I will say that I don't knowif that failure actually ever happened.
Right. It was always learning.
It was always learning how to show upbetter, how to show up differently,
how to be more myself,how to be, catalyzing the power
of other people around me.
I think about early on in my careerand, many of the mistakes that I made
(25:49):
where the growth points were, were notcapitalizing on people's strengths.
I had the wrong persondoing the wrong thing,
but as soon as that personwas in the right seat
doing the right thing,they were extraordinary.
There were often timestwo where if that wasn't the case,
it was like,oh, I guess we're just not a match.
(26:10):
Like,you know, like any relationship, right?
Like this employeeand this company culture
or this project or it's just it'sit's never going to work.
But that's okay.
We learned that.
Now you got to go find the thingthat will work for you.
I would say most of the thingsthat I have, experiences
as failures have been really mismatch,
(26:30):
mismatch of task to person, mismatch of,you know, culture and opportunity.
But also those were successes, right?
Because that was just a little sidestep.
And now we got back on the right course.
And you are here where you arebecause of it always.
Yeah.
I think, you know, you said something
that was really powerful to meand it was a question about regrets.
(26:51):
And you said somethingto the effect of like,
I don't live with regrets
because I wouldn'tbe right here, right now in this moment
if it wasn't for all of the momentsthat played into this.
And so, no, I don't I similarly, I don'tI don't think about these as failures.
They were they were all opportunitiesto learn and and hone.
You talked a little bitabout something that I am very
(27:11):
it is ingrained in my leadership style.
Everyone has to be on the right seaton the right.
Yeah.
That'sbecause sometimes you're on the wrong bus,
but in the right seat, sometimesyou're on the, you know, vice versa.
But that is so important.
So I in my career I have okay.
You're not this isn't for you.
(27:31):
Let's look over here.
And it's amazing when people finally geton the right seat in the right bus.
Yeah, the magic happens.
Have you seen that as well?
Oh, totally. Even for myself,I've seen it.
But I think from a leadershipperspective, we are
we are trusted servants, right?
We are trusted to have good judgmentabout these things
(27:54):
and to create the opportunityfor people to thrive doing what they do.
Well. And there are mistakes in that, too.
And I think the most important thingis always to be open to the pivot.
Right.
Okay, I see it.
I see this is not right.Let's make a shift.
And to engagein that open, honest conversation about,
(28:15):
I see that you're not able to perform
at your peak herebecause I'm not getting what I want.
I bet you're not getting what you want,either.
And having those vulnerable,trusting conversations is also
where the magic happens,because someone can
then share with you that like, yeah,this is not the bus for me.
I thought it was like it looked likeit was on paper but it's not.
Or it could be this is the right placebut it's just not the right role.
(28:39):
I would do betterif I was fill in the blank
and to be able to really use those.
I think about it like puzzles.
You have all these puzzle piecesto make the picture.
Yeah, I agree, I agree 100%.
Plus, as leaders were able to perform somuch better when we're in the right seat.
But again, how many timeshave you been a leader
where you haven't been in the right seat,but you have to lead anyway?
(29:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's the hard part.
So what advice do you havefor people who may be in that position?
I would imagine
finding a, finding a way to the right seaton the right bus.
I think it's really about using your voiceand really being able, to speak truth.
Often speaking truth to poweris what the where the issue is.
(29:21):
And I think from those conversations,I've often discovered
that we were both aiming in a directionwe didn't necessarily need or want to go.
And that could be converging.
It could be diverging, right?
It could be converging to, oh,we're going to head there together.
Or it could be we're going to go separateways.
And both are good discoveries.
The earlier the better.
(29:43):
But I thinkspeaking truth to that discomfort and I,
I see this so much at working wardrobes.
It is so hard to ask for help.
It is probably the biggest barriermost of our clients face.
Is that just that initial ask for help
on the otherside, when you're the one asking for help.
If I were to say, you know, Gina,will you help me with something? Right?
(30:04):
Like you're alreadyprepared to say yes, right?
We don't think about itfrom the recipient's mindset.
We just think about itfrom the fear of getting past,
you know, our ownsort of being courageous.
On the other side of that,people want to help.
They want to be of service.
And so I think that is also similarin this situation where if you can speak
(30:25):
the truth, if you can ask the question,are we really going to do this thing?
Because I really think that we should bedoing this thing and to be open and brave
and vulnerable to have that conversationthat's where the opening is, right?
Because it can become then, oh, let'sget on the same path or no, you're right.
We're going in different directionsand we can either realign or separate.
(30:47):
And where do you get this confidence.
Where does your confidence come from.
Oh my
goodness I think about it actuallymore as a surrender for the confidence.
That's why I'm laughing.
Yeah.
I am probably the least confident person.
On the inside I'm constantly questioning my self-doubt voice is really loud.
(31:08):
And as I shared, I'm, I'm constantlyin this sort of recovery of perfection
and constantly.
It's enough. Bonnie, you were enough.
You did enough.
Like, I'm sure there's 52 other things
I'm going to wishI said during this conversation. Right.
And I'm going to be telling myself.But it was enough.
It was enough. It was enough.
I think that I come across as confident
(31:29):
because I'm just comfortable in my ownskin.
Enough.
I'm comfortableenough for you to see that.
I'm just trying to be myself.
And that's
coming across as confidence to youbecause you want to feel that way, too.
This frequency, this energy fieldthat I'm on, I work hard to harness it.
(31:50):
I do a lot of practice in my lifeto make sure that my soul is fed
so that I can show up as my best self,one of the best,
executive presence, leadership trainingsI ever went to was 30 minutes.
It's actually availablefor free on the Working Wardrobes website,
and it was provided by Wendy Nickerson,who, was a board member at the time.
(32:12):
She's the at the time,the plant manager at Edwards Lifesciences,
and she talked about all the thingsshe learned through coaching and
and her leadership development.
This one concept I'm going to share isjust one of the 30 minutes of Just Magic.
This show is about a triangle
and the triangle of your careerhaving a foundation base.
And that foundation base is where you'rea solid contributor, right?
(32:33):
You are doing the the work,
and that next layer of your careeris the influencing layer, the layer
where you're able to shift thingsand kind of move
that direction and influence people,help them become their better selves.
And at the pinnacle of the careeris where you be, where you are.
And she talked about how important it is,how we show up.
(32:55):
Well, for me to show up well meansI have to take care of myself well.
And for me,that means a daily exercise routine.
And it also means, some habits that I've developed.
And I stack my habits so that I am doingthe things that are everything from the
my nutrition and my supplementsis literally how I care for the vessel
that takes my my, my souland my brain everywhere.
(33:19):
To be able to think clearly, to be ableto be aligned with where I am telling you,
I have a tendency to people, please,I have a tendency to perfection.
For me to show up imperfectly,vulnerably is an effort that I hone.
It's something I work to harness so that aI am coming across to you as confident.
(33:41):
But it's really just me being me.
But what is your workplace look like?
I'm curious as towhat does it look like when the CEO
is vulnerableor is willing to be vulnerable?
What whatwhat type of environment does that create?
We laugh together, we cry together.
We journey together.
(34:01):
And I think that the workplace environmentreally you feel and see the similar
alignment amongst a group of peopleand the alignment is how we show up.
We hire employees and volunteersbased on our four core values.
One of those core valuesis thoughtful relator.
That we all care about discoveringwho each other is
(34:24):
and tapping and flexingwho I am to meet you where you are.
That we don't judgepeople based on their circumstances,
their history,but on where they are today.
We're humble achievers.
We leave our ego at the doorbecause we know that nothing happens
unless we're all contributingour unique contributions to it.
And we acknowledge this all the timethat this one thing wouldn't be possible
(34:48):
for this one clientwe served if it wasn't for all 40
other people doing what they do well,from answering the phone
to sorting the donationsto getting them all of these pieces.
Another one of our valuesthat you see is integrity.
And it's not just thatwe do the right thing, but
we talk about it like I think about itlike earthquakes and structural integrity.
(35:09):
We're building things to last.
We all care about doing what we do today,not in a way that fixes it for a minute,
but that gives you the skillsthat you can sustain on your own.
And we're building systemsthat working wardrobes
like the infrastructure of the company,
but also for the people we serveso that they will last a lifetime.
We teach transferable skillsbecause we want them
(35:31):
to be able to use across industries,across occupations.
This is true for our staff as well.
And our final value that we hire forand that you see exhibited
and you feel it is grit.
We don't talk about grit, though.
It's like the white knuckleget through it. Grit.
We talk about it.
Oh, sense of adventure, grit.
Like I don't knowwhat's around that corner.
(35:53):
But imagine you're on a mountainbike on the trail and it's like,
I know I'm going to get there,whatever next.
Oh what's that?Oh, how are we going to get over that?
And so there's a real sense of,
teamwork and camaraderiethat comes with all of that.
But those values are pervasive throughoutevery morsel of the physical space.
And really where you you see it and feelit is how we treat each other.
(36:16):
And the
outcome, I mean,when you have a solid team like that,
and that's why it's so importantthat trust, that vulnerability,
that reliance on others and helping othersand accepting help from others.
I mean, that's what a true teamis all about and community too.
It's just like a bigger versionof it, right.
(36:38):
And so I think about that Gandhi quote.Right.
Like to, to be the changethat you're seeking to think about, like
how do you want people to treat you?
Well, show up that way.
One of the big lessons
I learned in college,just from a professor, was really about
when you walk down the street,what makes you feel better?
Do you feel betterwhen someone makes eye contact and smiles?
(36:59):
Yeah, I feel a lot better.
So I guess what I do a lot of,I make a lot of eye contact.
I give a lot of smiles.
And I often think about thatat the grocery store line and, you know,
traffic, how we treat each other,strangers also matters.
It's creating the communitythat we swim in.
And so if I'm honking and being aggressiveand doing things like
that's an invitationto treat me that way, no thank you.
(37:23):
Yeah.
That is very that is very true.
I mean when you think about it, whenyou think about what it is that you want,
so as the CEO,I mean you're at the top of your game.
What lessons or what advice do you have
for peopletrying to get into those big roles?
Oh, well, I would start outby being really clear about what you want.
(37:47):
Like, why?
What is it that you're really after,you know, and when you were saying that,
I was thinking like a little bit shirking.
I don't really like the title.
I think there's like all this connotationthat comes with the roles that we assign.
And in the world, what are you after?
Are you after, you know, making an impact?
Are you after inspiring people?
(38:07):
Are you afterwhat's the thing that you're really after?
Because there are so many roles and ways
to achieve thatoutcome that you're seeking.
If it's to lead,then I my advice would be to to make
make the mistakes, acknowledge them,let them be known and let people know
not just that you made the mistake,but what you learned from it. I,
(38:32):
more recently, you know, we
had an event that one of my colleagues,I had a vision for the event.
She had a completely different visionfor the event.
Thank goodness we did not listen to me.
And we listened to her,and it was magnificent.
Gina,I make sure to tell that story often,
because I want people to knowthat I make mistakes.
(38:52):
I'm not always going to be right.
I'm often asking,am I wrong that did that?
And I'll say something right.
I'm constantly inviting inputand that openness.
And I think if the leadership roleis what you're looking for,
then to learn a lot and speak a lot of it,it's not just the influence, right?
Because by sharing our lessons,
(39:13):
we both get to learn from themand make new mistakes.
But I also think that it is really to be
a leaderis inviting you to be a good human.
And you were talkingabout leading from the front.
I talk about lead by example,but I want to be the change
I'm seeking in the world.
I want to be that place where you dofeel safe and that you can be yourself.
(39:36):
That might not be another leader's aim,and that's fine.
But whatever you're going to do,be a good one.
And so aim for what it isyou're really seeking,
knowing that it may not be that role.
It might be another waythat you can achieve that outcome
and really show up as a good human.
And there's opportunitiesto lead in every aspect of life,
(39:57):
regardless of what level you are.
When I was at la metro,some of the best leaders
that I observed at lametro were the bus operators.
Because the bus operators,they were the captain of their ship.
They ran that tight ship. Yeah.
And they had every leadershipskill imaginable
(40:19):
because they were dealing with peopleevery day.
They were dealing with traffic every day.
They had to get peopleto where they needed to be on time.
But you, it doesn't matterwhat position you're in.
If you want to be a leader, startright now where you're at.
Yeah. With you.
May I share a quick story.
Yeah. Of course we have a client.
You just mentioned the bus operatorand I have to share this story.
(40:43):
I met Emmanuel, on the day that he got his citizenship
for the United States,and he was so proudly displaying
the certificate, he's literallywalking around the office with it.
His dream was to create that culture,
a workplace culture on a busthat would allow him to do what he does,
loves driving, have the opportunityto have that power, that control,
(41:07):
to create moment makers,you know, day makers like
I might be the first smile and eyesyou get today, right?
Getting on that bus.
And maybe you're not looking forward
to the day ahead, but you're goingto start to look forward to seeing me.
Yeah, right.
Yeah. That's power.
We have to light up other people.
And that ideathat Emmanuel came to this country
(41:28):
wanting the American dream, right.
And he's had barrierafter barrier, obstacle after obstacle.
He is living out of his car and pursuingthis certification with working wardrobes,
help getting the supporthe needs for critical needs assistance.
And ultimately, what's he doing?
He's giving back every daythat he creates that little,
(41:51):
that bubble, that utopia on the busis under his control
to create and give peoplenot just a safe ride,
but the opportunity to be in a little,I don't know, a little nest.
Yeah.
And the confidence that comes with that,I mean if you, if you want to be a leader
watch a bus operator. Right. Definitely.
I love that you see that another.
(42:11):
Oh my gosh.
And one time I was doing a ride along withsome of my transit security officers
and I got on the bus.
I always introduced myself
as the chief safetyand security officer gave him my card.
So I got on a bus.
Female bus operator gave her my card.She just looked at me.
I go back to the backand then next thing you know, I hear Jane,
And I'm like, what?
And I'm like, running up. Yes.What can I do for you?
(42:33):
You know, because that's the way.
And she want to know,what am I doing to keep her safe?
What am I doing for this?What am I doing for that?
And I just absolutely love that.
So you can be a leader anywhere you go.
Amen to that. Yeah.
So what can we do to help youin this amazing mission that you do?
Thank you for asking.
You know, I mentioned some of the ideas.
(42:54):
If you have time, if you have a talentor if you have dollars, treasure.
These are all three ways that you cancontribute to working wardrobes.
Mission.
We are all wearing well, you know, onthe outside world we're wearing clothes.
If you are
done with those gently loved clothesand are ready to give them a second life,
keep them out of landfills,but use them to help people get jobs.
(43:15):
Donate your clothes, your accessories,your shoes, your purses, your jewelry,
any of these items, scarves, ties
all of it is put to good usethat working wardrobes.
Another way you can help is, you know,you might have a training
that you do all the time.
Maybe it's like your sales team training.
Maybe it's your leadership training.
If you would offer that to usand what is recorded,
(43:38):
it could be part of our digital librarythat we offer to our clients.
Maybe it's something for our staffanother way,
and probably the most efficient wayto help is to donate dollars.
Those dollars literally make it
so that our clients do not payfor the services they receive.
And sometimes the thing that they needmost is a car repair.
Sometimes the thing they needmost is help with the deposit for their
(43:58):
for their rent.
Sometimes those dollars are literallyto help that career
navigator guide a person for six weeks,six months.
Again, we're backsix years later for a promotion, right.
This, long term relationshipthat we have with our clients requires
people who we can count onto lead from their seat
and help that personwho is being so brave asking for help.
(44:22):
Another way you can helpis if you're an employer, to let us know
what jobs you have, that our clientsmight be able to apply for.
And you're going to know thatthis candidate was prepared at working.
Wardrobes are a good quality candidate.
We have always the need for stylists.
There's this magical momentI'm thinking about Emmanuel's now,
you know, as he's in that bus drivercertification training program,
(44:45):
he had his wardrobe appointmentwhere he get styled
head to toe into an outfit interviewready.
Seeing Emanuelsee himself in the mirror in
that suit was likeseeing his future in a ball, right?
He saw a physical manifestation
of what was possibleand that what he'd been dreaming of.
(45:06):
If you have a passion for fashion
and you want to help stylepeople in these beautiful outfits
that make them interview ready,that's a wonderful way to give back.
If you're a corporationand you want to do a volunteer activity
as a group, that's another great way.
Our donation center processesover half a million items every year,
and we need help doing that,making sure there's all the buttons
(45:26):
and there's no ring around the collarand all of the things.
We also have stores, retail storeswhere people can help and,
you know, style customersor you can help on sort of the back end.
Right, restocking, even, you know,as the cash register, if you will.
There are a million waysyou can help working wardrobes.
I just invite you to check outour website, Working wardrobes.org,
(45:49):
and you can probably get a few ideasor more of ways
that you can make a difference.
And I will be there at CampPendleton styling people.
Yes, that'll be fun.
I'm looking forward to that.
So much magical.
It's absolutely magicalto have that kind of.
It's brief but deep.
And I think, you know,when we put on clothes,
(46:09):
they're like a representationof us, right?
And our our brainsare we make a first impression once
our brains are built tofor survival. Right.
Like sort of the reptilian sideof our brain is, you know, fight, fight.
Yes. No. In, out.
And that is indicativein the first impression,
because you have to catalyze that momentand that reptilian
(46:31):
side of the other person's brainthat's making snap judgments.
Are you safe? Are you good? Right.
So when you think about styling a person,
it's really creating a doorway.
You're making a physical manifestation ofwhat they want to show you on the inside.
And to help them make the most of that
first impressioncreates opportunity in that moment.
(46:54):
How we represent ourselves on the outside,it's just a manifestation of
what's inside.
I just gave a Ted talk on Sunday
and it was talking about breakthroughsuccess, and I had three Maverick moves.
So tell me a maverick movethat you have made
or someone can make in order to get closerto that breakthrough success.
(47:16):
Oh, you know,I think we've talked about one of mine,
which was succeeding a founder.
Pretty,pretty brave to, step into those shoes
or to wear my own shoes alongside.
Another Maverick move I madewas actually coming here to California.
I came without a job, without a business,without a real source of income.
(47:38):
And that was a pretty vulnerable move.
But I knew that it was.
I had faith that it was going to be okay,and that I would find my way.
What I discovered was that I foundthat way by connecting with people.
For me, coming to a strange strangerin a strange land, I came to this place
not knowing anyone,and just made a very conscious choice
(48:01):
to build a networkby joining a community of faith.
And from there,this web of relationships has become
not just the core of my relationshipshere,
but also the place that my my career
kind of got its legs, again, if you will,in a totally different industry.
I was working in the governmentfor a school district before I was leading
(48:23):
all of that, everythingthat was outside of the classroom.
So anything that was entrepreneurialto make money for the district,
all the entitlement grants, allthe tuition based programs, all of that.
And I came here thinking,I'll start a business
and I'll do more training and morestrategic planning, things that I loved.
But I think that the purposethat I needed to live
(48:43):
out was different,and I was able to do those things.
But in the context of a larger position,I ended up working there
for 12 yearsin lots of different capacities.
But the Maverick movewas taking the leap of faith and knowing
that I was taking really a bet on myselfthat I would figure it out,
that I would be of service,that the the opportunity to be of service.
(49:06):
I would find it.
It would find methat leap of faith with purpose,
knowing that my purpose,my future would be fulfilled.
The reason why I wanted to have you onthis show is because
you are a giant ball of light,and you not only help
the community, you helpeveryone who comes into contact with you.
And so it has been a pleasureto have you on the show.
(49:28):
Bonnie, thank you for coming.
Oh, Sheila, thank you.
Right back at you big time.
Thank you for making Maverick Moveswith Gina
L Osborne is producedand edited by Zille Media.
Connect with us on social media at Gina L
osborne.com/making maverick moves.
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