April 16, 2025 • 46 mins
Kevin Hein is the chief growth officer (CGO) at GIPHY. He began his print publishing career with Ziff Davis when print and tech were merging. Here, he learned the fundamentals of strategic selling while working on the PC magazine account. Kevin joined GIPHY in August 2024 and has since been instrumental in transforming GIPHY into a unique platform that connects brands with audiences through messaging. Under his leadership, GIPHY has expanded its advertiser base, introduced innovative ad formats, and positioned itself as a key player in the messaging ecosystem, driving significant revenue growth and delivering exceptional client results.
Kevin joins Alan Hart at South by Southwest (SXSW) to discuss the unique positioning GIPHY offers brands–to become part of cultural conversations in an additive rather than intrusive way. GIPHY's daily reach touches over 1 billion people worldwide, creating a magical moment when users discover the perfect GIF to convey what words alone cannot. GIPHY collaborates with brands to seamlessly integrate their messages into this magic, transforming existing creative, optimizing new ideas, and exper
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Well, Kevin, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
I'm excited for this conversation.
mean, we'll talk a lot about GIPHY, but in the interim, as we try to get to know you alittle bit, what is this about car details?
Yeah, so it's something that has been with me my entire life.
At very young age, I was borderline obsessed with cleaning.
(00:23):
It wanes here and there, depending on the job.
But what has been consistent is my love for cars and actually detailing.
So in high school, I had a car detailing business that paid for my gas and insurance.
And to this day, I have a garage full of car cleaning products.
I haven't gone to a car wash in 20 years.
(00:44):
I refuse to, no matter what time of the year it is.
And every neighbor and friends legitimately thinks I'm out of my mind because it just, Ilove it.
I love it.
I the final product.
love the process.
It's soothing.
It's therapeutic.
And I understand that 99.9 % of the people are saying that is the last thing I would everwant to do.
It does seem time consuming, but if it is your like meditative state, I totally get it.
(01:09):
It is standing away and seeing a clean car that's going to get dirty in 20 seconds is justlike a 20 second joy.
It really is so fulfilling.
Okay, alright, so from card uterine in high school to chief growth officer at GIPHY, tellme how you got from there to here.
You might think that there are no parallels there, but there are.
Some of the best thinking that I do when I am cleaning cars, whether it's just like a washor whether it's a full detail that could take hours, it's that type of thinking where
(01:39):
you're not distracted and you're really like pulling all the levers.
So when it comes to what we do today, those are some of my calmest moments where I thinkabout the biggest decisions I need to make for the business, especially the ones that
don't have a clear forecast to them.
what you can't control.
did it last week.
I was cleaning.
We had a 50 degree day, got out there and I made some really good decisions for thebusiness.
(02:03):
there are, that is a natural parallel has tied through ever since my car cleaning at avery young age.
Yeah.
can totally get it.
I don't want to clean my car though.
it makes perfect sense.
it's the, uh, uh, I guess other people it's in the shower.
You're thinking about the decision that's going to make or whatever it is.
(02:25):
Um, but that's interesting.
So what was the first professional gig maybe out of college?
Yeah.
So I fell into through a friend's network, print publishing at a company called ZiffDavis.
And at the time, print and tech were emerging and we're sitting here in Austin and MichaelDell reared his head in the desktop computer.
(02:48):
And I was fortunate enough to work for a brand called PC magazine, which at the time wasthe vogue of, I may, if Anna's listening, sorry, the vogue of
of tech and incredibly profitable business.
And that's where I learned the fundamentals of strategic selling in a very early, veryearly stage in my career.
(03:10):
And I still refer back to it many times.
So that was my foundational training.
And I found success.
was the youngest outside salesperson ever traveled the East coast.
And I think back to that foundation many times, actually with how I lead now in thecompany with
Real quick, there's the structure around opening market buyer competition, creating anarrative instead of leading and saying, here's my brand.
(03:38):
It's being thoughtful about a client.
that is, I learned that from my Ziff Davis when I entered this market.
And then when did you join GIPHY?
I joined GIPHY a little over six months ago.
wow.
So thank you so much.
It feels new, but at the same time, it feels already very familiar.
Okay.
Yeah.
(03:58):
I created a plan with the team and we've executed on that flawlessly.
So it doesn't feel like six months.
It actually feels just about right on time.
That's good.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Well, tell me about GIPHY today.
I think a listener would have to be living under a rock to not know what GIPHY is, butlike how should we collectively think about it as a business?
(04:20):
Yeah.
So you bring up such an important point and the road show that I've been on the last sixmonths focused on clients, agencies, client direct all across the board, our strategic
partners as well.
The reason why I bring that up is because when we start having conversations like this,and I'm to do it to you right now and you'll see it happen.
So when you think of GIPHY, like, what do you think of?
(04:41):
No wrong answer here, but literally what do you think of?
I think of memoirs in work or texting back and forth with my daughter trying to get thetone right.
Okay.
So business and personal and trying to capitalize on intent versus reception because youmight not have the right text or you want to be the cool dad.
Exactly.
Okay.
So we're going to continue down this journey if you don't mind.
(05:03):
We'll stay away from the work stuff for now.
So with your daughter, do you remember the last message that you sent her or the last GIFyou sent her fueled by GIPHY?
That's a good one.
I don't remember the exact one, but I know it was basketball-oriented.
Okay, so just the fact that you're physically doing what everyone does, which is smiling.
(05:25):
it is an extension of our emotions and it's always a positive emotion.
So sometimes these feelings and associations with GIPHY and GIFs are commoditized becausewe just see them as a fleeting moment of a positive emotion.
But think of how powerful that is.
And let's go to the corporate side.
(05:46):
So it's like,
whatever is usually around Microsoft, right?
You're working in Teams, something's going on.
It's either a fun, quick conversation or somebody's getting frustrated and you kind ofwant to shut it down and you pull that magic GIF and it just right sizes everybody in a
very respectful, funny way.
So like those are two very powerful moments.
(06:06):
But the point is around it that we don't think about it that much.
And that's our job to help people understand the thinking process of, give...
what would you say Google might be someone's default search engine?
GIF is by far the default search engine for any type of meme, GIF, sticker, but it's soingrained in our behaviors.
(06:29):
The thousands of messages that we send on a daily basis that you sometimes don't reallyconnect it.
But whenever I prompt somebody, they know immediately.
Your words, not mine.
You said, the rock you have to live under if you don't know GIPHY.
So today,
I'm excited to get to the area of where we talk about how do we translate this with brandmarketers for them to extend that feeling and most importantly, that connection within
(06:56):
messaging.
It's so powerful, it's so underutilized.
And to your point, and I guess even my assessment, like using a phone to work messagingsystem, GIPHY's everywhere.
I mean, you guys have done an amazing job getting GIPHY in the right places for thosemoments where I need to ratchet up the emotion in the team meeting or try to be the cool
(07:21):
guy to my daughter or try to communicate something that I can't really communicate inwords to my wife.
That's exactly right.
So, I mean, it seems like the proliferation of where you are is the distribution job donenow?
Yes.
the distribution job is never done.
It's constantly evolving and we could get to that.
So I wanted to thank the founders over the last decade who have done an exceptional job.
(07:46):
They're no longer here.
They've done an exceptional job building their relationships with those surfaces.
And if you think about iMessage, Meta Surfaces, TikTok, Reddit, just goes down the linefor many, many more.
Literally represents on a daily basis, we're reaching a quarter of the world.
Wow.
Wow.
And when you think about all of the platforms, digital, analog, whichever, you think abouthow many people could you reach.
(08:13):
And once you hit the B word and you're a billion plus, it becomes pretty small.
And we are the only brand that could have this global reach consistently across all thesurfaces.
I like to say exploited, which might be the wrong adjective because it feels very intense,but what an opportunity.
(08:35):
mean, to your point, a quarter of the world is insane.
Yeah.
a stat.
And then the notion of this, I'm just going to call it like magic of GIPHY, right?
To help aid in that communication.
Would you agree there's like something magical about being able to search for the exactthing that you're looking for to communicate the point you want to get across?
(08:57):
Yeah, so I think the magic comes in different forms.
of which is just how it makes you feel when you're doing it.
It's usually hysterical.
It usually shuts down discussions in a very positive, fun way, or it amplifiesdiscussions.
But that association between joy and personal expression is so incredibly powerful,especially these days when the attention economy is what it's at.
(09:22):
The second part is its opportunity with
brands to take advantage of this in a way that doesn't feel intrusive.
Like we talk about ad experiences, whether it's from the Super Bowl or a programmaticpartner pushing an impression in front of somebody.
We've become so muted to add messages that even the ones that are so in your face, you'relike, yeah, I kind of expected that.
(09:50):
And the beauty and the elegance about GIPHY is that it's part of the conversation.
And it's not intrusive.
It's additive.
It's a natural extension of what you're talking about.
Your example with your daughter.
She probably didn't respond.
like, dad, that's weird.
I wasn't talking about basketball, but it was probably dead on.
So it's just this magic that literally is not anywhere else.
(10:15):
If you think about it, like a little emoji or emoticon is not going to deliver that samemessage as a perfectly crafted, perfectly selected gift.
is new to people.
The other part is the immediacy, whether it's a live sporting event and being able toproduce that in many cases instantaneously because of our content creation team is
(10:38):
relevancy.
It's all there.
it captures, to your point, an element of the immediacy, the cultural connection, if youwill, too.
Because my daughter doesn't write back even, it's weird.
She just texts me this creepy, creepy, giffy guy that like peers out at me and I'm like,okay, yeah, I got it.
(11:03):
I got it.
Creepy dad, I got you.
Yeah, exactly.
So, well, there.
How you were talking about brands, how do brands work and engage with GIPHY?
Like what does it look like?
Yeah, it comes in a lot of different flavors.
The one word I would want to use is collaboration.
And in our world, that might sound so cliche and eye rolling because everybody wants to bea strategic partner who collaborates, right?
(11:29):
So what I mean about collaboration is let's talk about a Super Bowl ad.
You have your 30 second spot, you spend 2 million on production, you're spending 7 millionon a 30 second, and then you have branding around it, but usually it exhausts a large part
of your budget.
Let's pretend that
you want to do extend that.
In fact, we did this with Cerevie.
can't pay for 20.25, which makes everyone smile too, because it's hysterical.
(11:53):
So they had their spot and then we actually created custom content off of that.
So we did what we call cut down.
So we could take the 30 second spot and then make it into a three second GIF.
Based on our insights, we know it's going to work.
But what we also did is we created a unique GIF that wasn't part of the cut down and
(12:14):
the performance, the outputs were really powerful.
It extended their campaign with time and impact.
And that's you want that long tail, right?
Because if you look at the metrics of a Super Bowl spot and it goes up and to the right,and then the next day it's just like crickets.
So how do you keep that going?
This was one way that we've proven and that's every Super Bowl advertiser should belooking at extensions on GIPHY and other platforms, but it's hard to do.
(12:44):
What I mean, what else out there is able to get the reach and drive the impact in aconversational way?
There really is not.
something that's gonna capture the moment like you're just described.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
And I mean, in that case, I'm guessing you guys were working with the brand and the agencyin some regards.
(13:04):
Do you also work direct with?
Yeah.
So that's one example of taking big splashy creative ideas.
another one could be a campaign that they're building right now for a couple of months.
I've seen a couple of panels where the CMO is across the board at Boast.
We just want you to get in earlier.
And every person on the other side's like, we want to get in earlier, but we usuallydon't.
(13:28):
And that's no one's fault.
When we are in early enough, we're able to work with clients directly.
media agencies, and I'd like to say very closely with creative agencies.
And the reason why I want to emphasize this is because on the collaboration theme, weunderstand that agencies have margins within their creative agencies.
(13:51):
Like I'm talking holding companies that have standalone creative agencies.
We want to protect those margins.
We are not going to come in to say, shift a fee here.
We are not going to be blockers.
We are not going to challenge creative that you're the client.
hired to do a job.
We work in an elegant manner with them because we just want to use their momentum.
(14:11):
Now, where we start to add value is using our insights off of that audience with thatreach to say, hey, how about these words or how about this color?
Or maybe we do this variation.
And creative agencies, that might be billable for them.
We're not trying to make them more money, but we're trying to create the most effectivecampaign.
And we can do it so quickly.
(14:33):
The dexterity of my team is unlike anything I've seen before.
A, because they love it.
B, because we have these insights.
And C, we know how to do this.
Right.
So I'm talking about, in some cases, 24 hour turnarounds.
And we're in market.
Sure.
We like a little more breathing room if we're using the third part of what I like to say,our studios.
(14:56):
Our studios team, have a significant studio in LA.
We have a mobile studio.
In fact, we have it here in South By.
And what we're able to do is create GIF based content or short form video content withinour style.
And we've got the whole setup and we can do full production.
So a couple of weeks ago in our New York office in the Empire State Building, we have astudio there as well.
(15:21):
We hosted big names from NASCAR.
Wow.
And right now, if you look at NASCAR and GIPHY, you're going to see some of the biggestnames creating GIFs.
So we scale either way, but it's a full Hollywood.
level production that we could do in a short period of time, multi-days or somethingreally quick that we can do an event like South By, we scale it and we're not going to
(15:41):
hurt margins because if you're running a campaign with us, we're going to include it.
Right, right.
Which is unheard of now.
Yeah.
Brands don't get it.
They're like, what's the catch?
Exactly.
mean, I love the fact that you've got like you've got the studio horsepower.
You've got it on a mobile format so you can take it where the action's happening.
I mean, I'm thinking about we started with Super Bowl ad, but like you could probablycreate GIPHY content of the behind the scenes aspects, right?
(16:10):
Yeah.
As the, your talent sitting around, right?
Yeah.
Like most of the day for that moment where they're going to do the recording, there's alot of opportunity to leverage.
Yeah, so what's fascinating about that is we've experimented with that and majority of thetime it's a hit.
And sometimes because you can't predict everything, it just doesn't work.
It comes down to the editing, the opportunity, who are the actual people in it, what isthe focus.
(16:35):
But yeah, we have a lot of behind the scenes and we get approvals on it.
We can make that into some magic.
But it's interesting of how it isn't always a guarantee, but it's a great idea when it'sdone and curated properly, it screams.
Right.
And it does incredibly well.
Well, and from, as I think about it, it's just that little extra for the chance forexplosion of virality, if you will, or the, extending the life of anything that you're
(17:03):
doing.
I mean, it seems like a very efficient play.
Yeah, it is.
It is.
And we want to tell more of that story.
huh.
Awesome.
Well, we talked about a lot of examples.
didn't know if there's any other examples you want to share in terms of like how GIPHYcomes to life in Brain Camp.
Yeah, thank you.
I have a recent example that I'm incredibly proud of.
(17:25):
I'm so proud of it that at times my team eye rolls because they know it's coming.
It almost turns into a dad joke.
But on the serious side, we've all been really impressed by this and the campaign that wejust received approval for this.
So I want to openly talk about it.
About October, there was a brand under the Pepsi umbrella, Mug Root Beer.
(17:48):
Are you okay?
familiar with
you from the northeast or have always been down here?
No, no, no.
I travel a lot, so I've had mug root beer on the road.
I know I've seen it and I've had it.
So Mug as a brand under Pepsi has established themselves as kind of a cool niche withoutlike when you're cool, it means you're not trying.
(18:09):
So it is the Fonzie effect and they are capitalizing that and they're doing it reallywell.
So previously they had a contest where you're the winner of the contest won a stick.
that whole, right.
That's the exact face and it was incredibly successful.
They wanted to continue that momentum with us.
(18:29):
They had a great idea to have a person who's about six foot five put on a dog mask.
You have to put this together in your head and I'll show you some images later.
If everyone could search it now on GIPHY.
Puts on a dog mask.
Our studios team spent a full day with him and he did all these things you can imagine andnot imagine from pouring root beer, mug root beer onto bacon to
(18:58):
post editing around him on a rocket ship saying happy Thanksgiving, like 60 were producedfrom this campaign.
So the one prerequisite from Pepsi was we're gonna send you our sales data.
And what we wanna see is a lift in sales, of course they do.
So when I first heard this, I see the outputs.
(19:18):
And if I show you them, you could probably imagine them in your head.
These are the...
If we talk marketing funnel, the highest level brand builders, there is nothing in itthat's going to say, there's a coupon for me.
I'm going to go.
I'm at 7-Eleven.
I think there was a tie in here.
There is nothing.
(19:39):
There's nothing to click to.
There is no action here, but we created 60 pieces of material that were distributedthroughout the world with their campaign.
So our data scientists.
worked with the feed, which was direct aggregate sales of root beer.
It's obviously anonymized, it's nothing privacy.
(20:01):
And we ran eight geography.
I don't want to geek out too much here, but we did a synthetic holdout.
We did eight geographic regions.
The science is strong.
And after about three weeks, our data scientist comes and say, hey, we got some data.
I'm like, like 0.1 % in anything.
(20:22):
He says, we're seeing over 4 % lift.
Whoa.
And I said, no, you're not.
That's what I said.
Nothing against GIPHY.
It just, no, I've seen thousands of campaigns and this isn't the one that's going to have4 % lift.
So he worked on it more and he said, yes.
And then I said this and there's an incredible data scientists.
(20:45):
There's incredible marketers across the board.
I'm going to use P &G as an example.
would you go to Cincinnati in front of a data scientist at P &G, who's been doing this for30 years, and put this down and say, this is the data.
And he goes, yeah, definitely.
And then the campaign ran, we got more data, and it is a 4 % lift with a one and a halftimes ROI.
(21:12):
And I saw this, and I was a believer the second I started working here.
And when I saw this,
My jaw dropped.
And sure, we want to replicate this in many places.
And yes, it was a perfect formula.
But that is astonishing to me.
No, I agree.
I mean, especially in categories like that, 1 % is a slam dunk.
(21:38):
To get that outsized growth, mean, you're taking share, right?
You're taking share from the competition.
Thank you.
And what validated even more when we were on with the client, eight geographic markets,three of them are ones that they do extremely well in and the other five are scattered
around the country that they don't.
(21:58):
And I wasn't sure how they were going to react.
And we have a hundred percent certainty on some of these markets.
They said nothing's a hundred percent.
It's like, we're a hundred percent certain of this live.
So I'm sitting here waiting for their response.
Those three markets had very little lift.
And they said this.
we're doing well in those markets, we didn't expect to see lift.
Right.
So now it validates the data even more.
Right.
(22:19):
So it's incredible.
I think we might be getting to this later, but when I think about this opportunity, whatI'd like to see more energy from brands is around this experimentation part.
It doesn't have to be GIPHY.
I hope it is.
That would be wonderful.
I would like to see.
(22:39):
senior leaders spending a proportionate amount of time in the areas that are that 10 %experimental instead of or with junior people who are charged to find whatever that next
TikTok is.
And because we're not seeing that as much, we don't get the same type of rigor orenthusiasm with we're reaching a quarter of the world every day.
(23:04):
We bring joy, we're brand safe.
Right.
We should pressure test this a lot more, like with your core campaigns.
And it won't be a large out of pocket investment.
And now, across CPG and beverage, you can drive sales.
Like to me, that is utopia.
Who wouldn't want to exploit that?
I can't think of anyone that would want to do that.
(23:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's phenomenal that you said it.
I'll rephrase it, but it's a slam dunk.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's, that's an amazing case study.
Well, I know we may pepper in GIPHY here in a minute, but I'd love to switch gears alittle bit and get to know you even better.
Thank you.
My favorite question I ask everybody that comes on the show is has there been anexperience of your past that defines and makes up who you are today?
(23:51):
Not a single experience, but what I've been saying a lot to myself, and thank you forasking, it's interesting to be reflective.
The one phrase that keeps going on my mind is it's a chapter in the book.
And what I mean is that we have these moments now and obviously what's going on from ageopolitical perspective, whatever side you're on, the speed, like it used to be cliche,
(24:19):
things are moving so fast.
And now it's, nobody even says it anymore because it's just a constant.
And it could make you feel in that moment, like it's really spinning and you don't knowhow to get out of it.
So I'm using this theme and even when I'm being reflective for years back, I'mconsistently saying to myself, it's just a chapter in the book.
(24:45):
And it helps frame out it as a moment instead of everything is going to happen this way.
So it helps me step back and look at the incredible moments that are like, there's asaying something like you're never as good as you think you are and you're never as bad as
you think you are.
It's like.
That's right.
Somewhere in the middle is the truth.
(25:06):
He's just got Gallowayism in there somewhere that I'm stealing from incorrectly.
No, I love that notion of it's a chapter in the book because it does give you...
Sure.
Right?
I think that's the biggest thing I would take away from that is being able to step backand say, this is not everything.
This is just...
(25:26):
chapter.
Whether it's the mug, right?
Whether it's somebody threw a shoulder at you while you were walking and you're stillangry about it.
Those are the micro moments.
That didn't happen to me by the way, but it's the first thing I thought of as acomparison.
It is pretty crowded around the streets.
Well, what advice would you give your younger self if you're starting this journey allover?
(25:49):
I'm going to stick with the comparisons because it really is what I was thinking.
There are sprints that you need to win, but really the marathon is where you're going tobe build those foundational skills that are going to help you in all parts of life,
whether it's work or your personal life.
And thinking back of whether you're putting yourselves as you're 15, 20 or 25, whateveryou're thinking back to, I had that ingrained to me, but I would look back to say,
(26:17):
I'd want to put it to practice a little bit more.
The second part is you might think, or this is I would say to my younger self, that I havea strong ability to size up people pretty quickly.
It's not a skill.
It's more of a fight or flight protection.
And I tend to be right about people.
(26:38):
When I was younger, I wouldn't realize when I was wrong.
And now when I'm not right about people, it's actually a joy because I didn't pass toomuch judgment.
on them.
And it's not a pat in the back for me at all, but it's like a really beautiful, humblingfeeling when you're wrong about somebody because you gave them the chance and the space to
(27:00):
see them instead of inserting your biases to somebody.
So I think that is a really important message that I'm now telling my 17 year old self,who has a profitable car detailing business, by the way, enough to pay for gas and for
insurance and for a movie.
wow.
Okay.
So it's kind of in the family, I guess.
(27:21):
Well, I'm just curious.
You think there's something that either you're trying to learn more about or you thinkmarketers need to be learning more about today?
Yeah, and this might tail into a later topic that we might navigate to.
But one of those areas is, and it is the most cliche two letters that we could say rightnow, it's AI.
(27:41):
Right.
But I want to elaborate on this because I've noticed that it's a topic that people arefamiliar with and have an opinion on.
But I would say 90 % of the people I interact with
aren't experimenting with it.
It's more of like a binary decision in a lot of people's minds and I'm not being critical.
It's just what I've observed, which is, I'm not going to do that.
(28:04):
I don't need it.
It's going to overwhelm me.
And then you have people that you see across all social surfaces that are like writingcode and they're defining the next AI vision and they're so in it and you don't understand
a word that they're saying.
I'm noticing that there aren't a lot of people in the middle and I'm extending this tobrand marketers.
and agency leaders across the entire chasm.
(28:27):
Most senior CMO is down to somebody who just got in the business.
My point with this is I believe people need to experiment more.
Just start with a model of your choice, could be ChatGPT and type in, I need you to helpme navigate around Austin because I'm lost and just see what happens.
(28:47):
It doesn't have to be this deeply scientific thing.
And then on the other side,
because I've been using CHAP GPT, the paid version, not the $200 version, but I think it's$10 a month or so.
And I really experiment with it.
And this past week, I tried to create an ebook and integrate with Canva.
Are you familiar with Canva?
Yeah, yeah.
(29:07):
So it's supposed to have a natural tie-in and it's something I just spent a little bittime on to experiment, because I want to see if it could actually take a template from
Canva and the text that we create and turn it into something.
That was it.
Right, right.
And just like going through that cognitively, the points of friction, the areas I wasstuck or bored or frustrated and inspired is very hard to put into words to people who
(29:33):
don't experiment with it all.
So I see the overwhelming majority of people aren't experimenting with chat GPT or anytype of model enough because when the time comes when you need to be dexterous and
proficient, no matter who you are,
you're going to have a steep learning curve.
So I want to see more of that It's so much opportunity there.
(29:54):
And I think people need to experiment with more, especially when thinking about brandcampaigns and just it's all tied in.
So that's one area.
I love it.
Well, are there any trends or subcultures that you follow you think other people shouldtake notice of?
Yeah, so on the subculture side, I alluded to it in the category around AI.
Whatever social surface you prefer, mine happens to be for this conversation right now,aside from GIPHY, of course, is TikTok.
(30:22):
And I've been consuming TikTok content since it was musically when my daughter startedusing it and I saw it was such a strong trend.
And then when it became TikTok, my point is the...
influencers, creators, the people on the edge, the people that are really driving thislong tail economy of independent contributors.
(30:46):
Some of them are incredibly smart, really pushing the technology, really driving business.
And these are going to be the people that are going to have the next business across allverticals.
It used to be, I'm going to sell this t-shirt.
I'm going to integrate on a TikTok shop.
Now you're starting to see
people do very sophisticated, they were able to provide very sophisticated businesssolutions.
(31:12):
Because they're grinding it out and they're doing it.
And I think that's gonna be our future.
My point is, I don't think they're getting paid enough attention.
Right.
No, I agree.
I agree.
I actually met a magician not too long ago.
I don't know, I'm blanking on his first name.
Last name is From, but he is a full-fledged content creator and magician.
(31:33):
And just the power of his knowledge of how things like YouTube or other types of platformsand the algorithms are working and the way he goes about testing and optimizing content.
I was just completely blown away.
And so we're all the marketers in the room with me.
Just the level of science that goes into the creation process.
(31:57):
Cause we, we always see the output and it's hilarious.
It's funny.
It's shocking what, know, all of those things wrapped up into one, but the process that hewould go through to optimize content was just.
I'm so glad you brought that up because I'm not going to refer to the exact brand, but itwas like a really recap moment.
I saw it today.
There's a stat that I'm going to misquote so poorly, but a year's time in change now isabout 18 days.
(32:24):
Okay.
So whether we subscribe to that actual data point is something about that.
The point was the amount of iterations that this brand does.
And the amount of times that they change their, all their landing pages is at a very highfrequency.
So the point is, if you produce a product and it's working, it doesn't mean it's going towork 18 days from now.
(32:46):
And that type of optimization, insight driven optimization is the norm now.
It's not, look, a magician's doing it, but think about how many brands keep their pagestatic.
And then think about how many brands, like when we're talking with brand leaders acrossthe world, as far as that
experimental budget, or we could play two roles.
(33:07):
could, as like Serevi, we can strongly compliment a core buy.
We could be the core buy.
The other one is that test and learn phase.
Yeah.
Right.
It's fun.
Right.
We have data points that can prove it.
We've got the reach.
I want to see if I had a challenge to brand marketers, agency leaders, and it doesn't meanthat GIPHY is always the answer by any means.
(33:31):
But when you're thinking about a brand safe environment that could reach this many peoplewith actions that people are doing millions and billions of times a day within messaging
across all of the surfaces that everybody uses across the world, the experimentation andthe test and learn and the iterations should be borderline fun.
Right.
And we're not seeing enough of that.
(33:52):
And with total respect, let's just stick on the CMO.
I know you've talked to a bunch of CMOs lately.
It used to be an 18 month CMO gig.
Now it's like 20 minutes.
I completely understand why they will look at digital as an accountable, measurable way,whether it's an MMM model or whether it's your programmatic outputs that show the direct
(34:14):
correlation of sale.
That can become a safe addictive drug.
What I'd like to see more of is that experimentation side.
And I think every CMO listening is now like punching the ceiling of their car saying, I doall of that.
Right.
But the board won't approve me to do that because it doesn't have the data points tosupport that strategy.
(34:34):
And I think whether it's the Pepsi Mug campaign or any of the Fresh campaigns thatdelivered on the Superbowl, which is a whole other discussion, you see that the brands
that understand that a little bit, like I was thinking back to the Bud Light campaign withwith the "What's Up"
yeah, yeah, classic, classic.
(34:56):
And that is timeless, even if you watch it now.
And that wasn't too experimental, but that was like a little experimental, a little risky,but wow, what a hit.
And now nothing against insurance brands.
It's Flow, it's an Emu, it's Mayhem, it's a Gecko, it's a rinse and repeat.
(35:20):
And I think that their data shows, if it isn't broken,
Right?
And so nothing's challenged there in a highly competitive, low margin business where weneed change.
look, that's across an entire vertical that's spending billions of dollars.
And I'm sure they have every signal in the world that's showing there's no reason or noCMO.
(35:44):
Why would I change that?
If I'm getting lifts and we don't have churn and I'm getting new people to join ourinsurance company, why would I move flow out?
They've tried so many times.
So it's, what's the answer?
I don't know.
Right.
But I'm pretty sure that's going to end.
Mayhem is going to end and it's not going to be a slow draw.
It's going to be like a light switch.
(36:06):
And what are you substituting it with?
yeah, if you haven't been testing, you don't know what to substitute it with.
I'm sure they are.
But how much time is a senior exec or a CMO spending in the test and learn phase?
Probably not a lot.
That's not their fault because they're trying to keep their job.
So it's like that push pull, I think is a big opportunity in the industry with all brandsand a mug can do it as a small brand.
(36:32):
Pepsi's got 15 brands that are billion dollars.
And we're going to come back a year from now and see, like, mugs going to be like playedout.
Cause they're going to be like that billion dollar brand and then they're going to havemug that's like strawberry mug.
I hope so.
That'd be awesome.
Strawberry root beer mug.
Very weird mug.
All right, you heard it here.
(36:52):
Yeah.
I mean, you're right.
And the, remember it was a few years back.
I was on a panel talking about marketing measurement and where, where things were going.
And I remember making a comment, which is at the heart of what you're describing, which iswhen everything is going great, what can I change?
Yeah.
(37:15):
Like the spark that is at the underlying.
pin of this model, which is not actually being measured in its truest sense, right?
I mean, there are now ways you can do that, but like normally we're just looking, is thechart still going up?
Not, how do I bend the curve to a new trajectory?
That's right.
(37:35):
Think of the mindset and confidence you need to do that.
Right.
Right.
If you're across meta, you're across Google, maybe a little Amazon if you're CPG andyou're using programmatic, you have 90 % of the market served.
Right.
And if you're showing incremental gains and you don't have strong attrition, why would youexperiment?
I mean, you want to, but really, why would you do it?
(37:56):
Right.
There's no incentives really to do it.
It just has to be you, right?
That's right.
So what we welcome, categorically from a reach perspective, from a brand knowledgeperspective, meaning I know what GIPHY is, I know what it does, from a conversational
perspective, from a brand safety perspective, it's like, if you do the agency check thebox, we've got them all.
(38:22):
It's like, what do do with creative?
we can produce that in like 24 hours or we can take a much longer time and do a studioshoot.
Right.
Right.
So.
We are a very strong alternative, no matter if you're a small size company or a FortuneOne company.
And we are working, what is actually interesting is they do an analysis of our accountsthat we have active.
(38:43):
We're attracting the Fortune 100 brands.
Yeah, of course we're going after them and they have larger budgets, but across everysingle vertical, aside from pharma for regulation reasons, but I think we're gonna find
ways for OTC, brands are running to us.
Right.
Maybe a little bit because of that friction that we're talking about.
(39:03):
Maybe they're looking for alternatives.
I like to say my sales team is really strong and consultative, but I think when we're herenext year, and I hope we are, whether we're in New York or down here by South by, where
GIPHY is a year from now is going to be in a much different place.
I'd love to say because of our efforts and our wonderful platform, but I think it's goingto be because this necessary shift in the market.
(39:25):
Right.
Like you said it, the creative.
Yeah.
But how diluted has creative become?
Well, and it's unfortunate, there's not many other places where you can insert yourself ineveryone's day to day life in a way that they want you there.
Right?
They're trying to express themselves and the creative that you have out in the world is atool for them to do that.
(39:49):
And now you've married your brand to that person.
Yeah.
Almost for
And listen, if Giffey Creative was stale, then it would be just this stale old experience.
the freshness and the cultural relevancy and the timeliness, it's a perfect package for,my biggest secret is the brands that are working with us, they're like, don't tell
(40:13):
anybody.
Right?
We want you to be all of ours.
like, listen, there's plenty of impressions and plenty of reach and plenty of room.
We, once that light bulb goes off, and I've seen it times in my career, just like, wait,why has this campaign been flawlessly executed?
Wait, you over-delivered with organic distribution?
(40:33):
Wait, you're not charging us for the creative?
It's almost like too good to be true.
I need to create a little friction, I think.
Right?
Right.
So they feel like we negotiate there.
I'm like, no, we're just, we're just awesome.
Well, I have one last question for you.
As you think about the role of marketers today, what do you think is the largestopportunity or threat facing them?
(40:58):
the through line of what we discussed.
So I believe that the opportunity is thoughtful, creative, which sounds cliche to anextent.
And what I mean is that test and learn and understanding that a little bit more timethinking about not wanting to be different, but really looking at your unique selling
proposition, really looking at the essence of your brand, and then being mindful of themodes.
(41:24):
Like we're talking about personalization again, which seems to be a theme I'm hearing.
But if you're mindful mode of the mindset of messaging, like you talked about it with yourdaughter, you don't want a hard, stern message there.
It has to be the exact opposite.
There's some elegance to that.
So I think on the creative side, that is one of the largest missing opportunities.
(41:46):
Creative plus test and learn.
Got it.
Got it.
Well, Kevin, it's been a joy to have you on.
Thank you for having conversation and thanks for helping me at least attempt to be a cool.
Yeah, thank you.
It's great to be here.
Well, Kevin, welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Yeah.
I'm excited for this conversation.
mean, we'll talk a lot about GIPHY, but in the interim, as we try to get to know you alittle bit, what is this about car details?
Yeah, so it's something that has been with me my entire life.
At very young age, I was borderline obsessed with cleaning.
(00:23):
It wanes here and there, depending on the job.
But what has been consistent is my love for cars and actually detailing.
So in high school, I had a car detailing business that paid for my gas and insurance.
And to this day, I have a garage full of car cleaning products.
I haven't gone to a car wash in 20 years.
(00:44):
I refuse to, no matter what time of the year it is.
And every neighbor and friends legitimately thinks I'm out of my mind because it just, Ilove it.
I love it.
I the final product.
love the process.
It's soothing.
It's therapeutic.
And I understand that 99.9 % of the people are saying that is the last thing I would everwant to do.
It does seem time consuming, but if it is your like meditative state, I totally get it.
(01:09):
It is standing away and seeing a clean car that's going to get dirty in 20 seconds is justlike a 20 second joy.
It really is so fulfilling.
Okay, alright, so from card uterine in high school to chief growth officer at GIPHY, tellme how you got from there to here.
You might think that there are no parallels there, but there are.
Some of the best thinking that I do when I am cleaning cars, whether it's just like a washor whether it's a full detail that could take hours, it's that type of thinking where
(01:39):
you're not distracted and you're really like pulling all the levers.
So when it comes to what we do today, those are some of my calmest moments where I thinkabout the biggest decisions I need to make for the business, especially the ones that
don't have a clear forecast to them.
what you can't control.
did it last week.
I was cleaning.
We had a 50 degree day, got out there and I made some really good decisions for thebusiness.
(02:03):
there are, that is a natural parallel has tied through ever since my car cleaning at avery young age.
Yeah.
can totally get it.
I don't want to clean my car though.
it makes perfect sense.
it's the, uh, uh, I guess other people it's in the shower.
You're thinking about the decision that's going to make or whatever it is.
(02:25):
Um, but that's interesting.
So what was the first professional gig maybe out of college?
Yeah.
So I fell into through a friend's network, print publishing at a company called ZiffDavis.
And at the time, print and tech were emerging and we're sitting here in Austin and MichaelDell reared his head in the desktop computer.
(02:48):
And I was fortunate enough to work for a brand called PC magazine, which at the time wasthe vogue of, I may, if Anna's listening, sorry, the vogue of
of tech and incredibly profitable business.
And that's where I learned the fundamentals of strategic selling in a very early, veryearly stage in my career.
(03:10):
And I still refer back to it many times.
So that was my foundational training.
And I found success.
was the youngest outside salesperson ever traveled the East coast.
And I think back to that foundation many times, actually with how I lead now in thecompany with
Real quick, there's the structure around opening market buyer competition, creating anarrative instead of leading and saying, here's my brand.
(03:38):
It's being thoughtful about a client.
that is, I learned that from my Ziff Davis when I entered this market.
And then when did you join GIPHY?
I joined GIPHY a little over six months ago.
wow.
So thank you so much.
It feels new, but at the same time, it feels already very familiar.
Okay.
Yeah.
(03:58):
I created a plan with the team and we've executed on that flawlessly.
So it doesn't feel like six months.
It actually feels just about right on time.
That's good.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Well, tell me about GIPHY today.
I think a listener would have to be living under a rock to not know what GIPHY is, butlike how should we collectively think about it as a business?
(04:20):
Yeah.
So you bring up such an important point and the road show that I've been on the last sixmonths focused on clients, agencies, client direct all across the board, our strategic
partners as well.
The reason why I bring that up is because when we start having conversations like this,and I'm to do it to you right now and you'll see it happen.
So when you think of GIPHY, like, what do you think of?
(04:41):
No wrong answer here, but literally what do you think of?
I think of memoirs in work or texting back and forth with my daughter trying to get thetone right.
Okay.
So business and personal and trying to capitalize on intent versus reception because youmight not have the right text or you want to be the cool dad.
Exactly.
Okay.
So we're going to continue down this journey if you don't mind.
(05:03):
We'll stay away from the work stuff for now.
So with your daughter, do you remember the last message that you sent her or the last GIFyou sent her fueled by GIPHY?
That's a good one.
I don't remember the exact one, but I know it was basketball-oriented.
Okay, so just the fact that you're physically doing what everyone does, which is smiling.
(05:25):
it is an extension of our emotions and it's always a positive emotion.
So sometimes these feelings and associations with GIPHY and GIFs are commoditized becausewe just see them as a fleeting moment of a positive emotion.
But think of how powerful that is.
And let's go to the corporate side.
(05:46):
So it's like,
whatever is usually around Microsoft, right?
You're working in Teams, something's going on.
It's either a fun, quick conversation or somebody's getting frustrated and you kind ofwant to shut it down and you pull that magic GIF and it just right sizes everybody in a
very respectful, funny way.
So like those are two very powerful moments.
(06:06):
But the point is around it that we don't think about it that much.
And that's our job to help people understand the thinking process of, give...
what would you say Google might be someone's default search engine?
GIF is by far the default search engine for any type of meme, GIF, sticker, but it's soingrained in our behaviors.
(06:29):
The thousands of messages that we send on a daily basis that you sometimes don't reallyconnect it.
But whenever I prompt somebody, they know immediately.
Your words, not mine.
You said, the rock you have to live under if you don't know GIPHY.
So today,
I'm excited to get to the area of where we talk about how do we translate this with brandmarketers for them to extend that feeling and most importantly, that connection within
(06:56):
messaging.
It's so powerful, it's so underutilized.
And to your point, and I guess even my assessment, like using a phone to work messagingsystem, GIPHY's everywhere.
I mean, you guys have done an amazing job getting GIPHY in the right places for thosemoments where I need to ratchet up the emotion in the team meeting or try to be the cool
(07:21):
guy to my daughter or try to communicate something that I can't really communicate inwords to my wife.
That's exactly right.
So, I mean, it seems like the proliferation of where you are is the distribution job donenow?
Yes.
the distribution job is never done.
It's constantly evolving and we could get to that.
So I wanted to thank the founders over the last decade who have done an exceptional job.
(07:46):
They're no longer here.
They've done an exceptional job building their relationships with those surfaces.
And if you think about iMessage, Meta Surfaces, TikTok, Reddit, just goes down the linefor many, many more.
Literally represents on a daily basis, we're reaching a quarter of the world.
Wow.
Wow.
And when you think about all of the platforms, digital, analog, whichever, you think abouthow many people could you reach.
(08:13):
And once you hit the B word and you're a billion plus, it becomes pretty small.
And we are the only brand that could have this global reach consistently across all thesurfaces.
I like to say exploited, which might be the wrong adjective because it feels very intense,but what an opportunity.
(08:35):
mean, to your point, a quarter of the world is insane.
Yeah.
a stat.
And then the notion of this, I'm just going to call it like magic of GIPHY, right?
To help aid in that communication.
Would you agree there's like something magical about being able to search for the exactthing that you're looking for to communicate the point you want to get across?
(08:57):
Yeah, so I think the magic comes in different forms.
of which is just how it makes you feel when you're doing it.
It's usually hysterical.
It usually shuts down discussions in a very positive, fun way, or it amplifiesdiscussions.
But that association between joy and personal expression is so incredibly powerful,especially these days when the attention economy is what it's at.
(09:22):
The second part is its opportunity with
brands to take advantage of this in a way that doesn't feel intrusive.
Like we talk about ad experiences, whether it's from the Super Bowl or a programmaticpartner pushing an impression in front of somebody.
We've become so muted to add messages that even the ones that are so in your face, you'relike, yeah, I kind of expected that.
(09:50):
And the beauty and the elegance about GIPHY is that it's part of the conversation.
And it's not intrusive.
It's additive.
It's a natural extension of what you're talking about.
Your example with your daughter.
She probably didn't respond.
like, dad, that's weird.
I wasn't talking about basketball, but it was probably dead on.
So it's just this magic that literally is not anywhere else.
(10:15):
If you think about it, like a little emoji or emoticon is not going to deliver that samemessage as a perfectly crafted, perfectly selected gift.
is new to people.
The other part is the immediacy, whether it's a live sporting event and being able toproduce that in many cases instantaneously because of our content creation team is
(10:38):
relevancy.
It's all there.
it captures, to your point, an element of the immediacy, the cultural connection, if youwill, too.
Because my daughter doesn't write back even, it's weird.
She just texts me this creepy, creepy, giffy guy that like peers out at me and I'm like,okay, yeah, I got it.
(11:03):
I got it.
Creepy dad, I got you.
Yeah, exactly.
So, well, there.
How you were talking about brands, how do brands work and engage with GIPHY?
Like what does it look like?
Yeah, it comes in a lot of different flavors.
The one word I would want to use is collaboration.
And in our world, that might sound so cliche and eye rolling because everybody wants to bea strategic partner who collaborates, right?
(11:29):
So what I mean about collaboration is let's talk about a Super Bowl ad.
You have your 30 second spot, you spend 2 million on production, you're spending 7 millionon a 30 second, and then you have branding around it, but usually it exhausts a large part
of your budget.
Let's pretend that
you want to do extend that.
In fact, we did this with Cerevie.
can't pay for 20.25, which makes everyone smile too, because it's hysterical.
(11:53):
So they had their spot and then we actually created custom content off of that.
So we did what we call cut down.
So we could take the 30 second spot and then make it into a three second GIF.
Based on our insights, we know it's going to work.
But what we also did is we created a unique GIF that wasn't part of the cut down and
(12:14):
the performance, the outputs were really powerful.
It extended their campaign with time and impact.
And that's you want that long tail, right?
Because if you look at the metrics of a Super Bowl spot and it goes up and to the right,and then the next day it's just like crickets.
So how do you keep that going?
This was one way that we've proven and that's every Super Bowl advertiser should belooking at extensions on GIPHY and other platforms, but it's hard to do.
(12:44):
What I mean, what else out there is able to get the reach and drive the impact in aconversational way?
There really is not.
something that's gonna capture the moment like you're just described.
Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
And I mean, in that case, I'm guessing you guys were working with the brand and the agencyin some regards.
(13:04):
Do you also work direct with?
Yeah.
So that's one example of taking big splashy creative ideas.
another one could be a campaign that they're building right now for a couple of months.
I've seen a couple of panels where the CMO is across the board at Boast.
We just want you to get in earlier.
And every person on the other side's like, we want to get in earlier, but we usuallydon't.
(13:28):
And that's no one's fault.
When we are in early enough, we're able to work with clients directly.
media agencies, and I'd like to say very closely with creative agencies.
And the reason why I want to emphasize this is because on the collaboration theme, weunderstand that agencies have margins within their creative agencies.
(13:51):
Like I'm talking holding companies that have standalone creative agencies.
We want to protect those margins.
We are not going to come in to say, shift a fee here.
We are not going to be blockers.
We are not going to challenge creative that you're the client.
hired to do a job.
We work in an elegant manner with them because we just want to use their momentum.
(14:11):
Now, where we start to add value is using our insights off of that audience with thatreach to say, hey, how about these words or how about this color?
Or maybe we do this variation.
And creative agencies, that might be billable for them.
We're not trying to make them more money, but we're trying to create the most effectivecampaign.
And we can do it so quickly.
(14:33):
The dexterity of my team is unlike anything I've seen before.
A, because they love it.
B, because we have these insights.
And C, we know how to do this.
Right.
So I'm talking about, in some cases, 24 hour turnarounds.
And we're in market.
Sure.
We like a little more breathing room if we're using the third part of what I like to say,our studios.
(14:56):
Our studios team, have a significant studio in LA.
We have a mobile studio.
In fact, we have it here in South By.
And what we're able to do is create GIF based content or short form video content withinour style.
And we've got the whole setup and we can do full production.
So a couple of weeks ago in our New York office in the Empire State Building, we have astudio there as well.
(15:21):
We hosted big names from NASCAR.
Wow.
And right now, if you look at NASCAR and GIPHY, you're going to see some of the biggestnames creating GIFs.
So we scale either way, but it's a full Hollywood.
level production that we could do in a short period of time, multi-days or somethingreally quick that we can do an event like South By, we scale it and we're not going to
(15:41):
hurt margins because if you're running a campaign with us, we're going to include it.
Right, right.
Which is unheard of now.
Yeah.
Brands don't get it.
They're like, what's the catch?
Exactly.
mean, I love the fact that you've got like you've got the studio horsepower.
You've got it on a mobile format so you can take it where the action's happening.
I mean, I'm thinking about we started with Super Bowl ad, but like you could probablycreate GIPHY content of the behind the scenes aspects, right?
(16:10):
Yeah.
As the, your talent sitting around, right?
Yeah.
Like most of the day for that moment where they're going to do the recording, there's alot of opportunity to leverage.
Yeah, so what's fascinating about that is we've experimented with that and majority of thetime it's a hit.
And sometimes because you can't predict everything, it just doesn't work.
It comes down to the editing, the opportunity, who are the actual people in it, what isthe focus.
(16:35):
But yeah, we have a lot of behind the scenes and we get approvals on it.
We can make that into some magic.
But it's interesting of how it isn't always a guarantee, but it's a great idea when it'sdone and curated properly, it screams.
Right.
And it does incredibly well.
Well, and from, as I think about it, it's just that little extra for the chance forexplosion of virality, if you will, or the, extending the life of anything that you're
(17:03):
doing.
I mean, it seems like a very efficient play.
Yeah, it is.
It is.
And we want to tell more of that story.
huh.
Awesome.
Well, we talked about a lot of examples.
didn't know if there's any other examples you want to share in terms of like how GIPHYcomes to life in Brain Camp.
Yeah, thank you.
I have a recent example that I'm incredibly proud of.
(17:25):
I'm so proud of it that at times my team eye rolls because they know it's coming.
It almost turns into a dad joke.
But on the serious side, we've all been really impressed by this and the campaign that wejust received approval for this.
So I want to openly talk about it.
About October, there was a brand under the Pepsi umbrella, Mug Root Beer.
(17:48):
Are you okay?
familiar with
you from the northeast or have always been down here?
No, no, no.
I travel a lot, so I've had mug root beer on the road.
I know I've seen it and I've had it.
So Mug as a brand under Pepsi has established themselves as kind of a cool niche withoutlike when you're cool, it means you're not trying.
(18:09):
So it is the Fonzie effect and they are capitalizing that and they're doing it reallywell.
So previously they had a contest where you're the winner of the contest won a stick.
that whole, right.
That's the exact face and it was incredibly successful.
They wanted to continue that momentum with us.
(18:29):
They had a great idea to have a person who's about six foot five put on a dog mask.
You have to put this together in your head and I'll show you some images later.
If everyone could search it now on GIPHY.
Puts on a dog mask.
Our studios team spent a full day with him and he did all these things you can imagine andnot imagine from pouring root beer, mug root beer onto bacon to
(18:58):
post editing around him on a rocket ship saying happy Thanksgiving, like 60 were producedfrom this campaign.
So the one prerequisite from Pepsi was we're gonna send you our sales data.
And what we wanna see is a lift in sales, of course they do.
So when I first heard this, I see the outputs.
(19:18):
And if I show you them, you could probably imagine them in your head.
These are the...
If we talk marketing funnel, the highest level brand builders, there is nothing in itthat's going to say, there's a coupon for me.
I'm going to go.
I'm at 7-Eleven.
I think there was a tie in here.
There is nothing.
(19:39):
There's nothing to click to.
There is no action here, but we created 60 pieces of material that were distributedthroughout the world with their campaign.
So our data scientists.
worked with the feed, which was direct aggregate sales of root beer.
It's obviously anonymized, it's nothing privacy.
(20:01):
And we ran eight geography.
I don't want to geek out too much here, but we did a synthetic holdout.
We did eight geographic regions.
The science is strong.
And after about three weeks, our data scientist comes and say, hey, we got some data.
I'm like, like 0.1 % in anything.
(20:22):
He says, we're seeing over 4 % lift.
Whoa.
And I said, no, you're not.
That's what I said.
Nothing against GIPHY.
It just, no, I've seen thousands of campaigns and this isn't the one that's going to have4 % lift.
So he worked on it more and he said, yes.
And then I said this and there's an incredible data scientists.
(20:45):
There's incredible marketers across the board.
I'm going to use P &G as an example.
would you go to Cincinnati in front of a data scientist at P &G, who's been doing this for30 years, and put this down and say, this is the data.
And he goes, yeah, definitely.
And then the campaign ran, we got more data, and it is a 4 % lift with a one and a halftimes ROI.
(21:12):
And I saw this, and I was a believer the second I started working here.
And when I saw this,
My jaw dropped.
And sure, we want to replicate this in many places.
And yes, it was a perfect formula.
But that is astonishing to me.
No, I agree.
I mean, especially in categories like that, 1 % is a slam dunk.
(21:38):
To get that outsized growth, mean, you're taking share, right?
You're taking share from the competition.
Thank you.
And what validated even more when we were on with the client, eight geographic markets,three of them are ones that they do extremely well in and the other five are scattered
around the country that they don't.
(21:58):
And I wasn't sure how they were going to react.
And we have a hundred percent certainty on some of these markets.
They said nothing's a hundred percent.
It's like, we're a hundred percent certain of this live.
So I'm sitting here waiting for their response.
Those three markets had very little lift.
And they said this.
we're doing well in those markets, we didn't expect to see lift.
Right.
So now it validates the data even more.
Right.
(22:19):
So it's incredible.
I think we might be getting to this later, but when I think about this opportunity, whatI'd like to see more energy from brands is around this experimentation part.
It doesn't have to be GIPHY.
I hope it is.
That would be wonderful.
I would like to see.
(22:39):
senior leaders spending a proportionate amount of time in the areas that are that 10 %experimental instead of or with junior people who are charged to find whatever that next
TikTok is.
And because we're not seeing that as much, we don't get the same type of rigor orenthusiasm with we're reaching a quarter of the world every day.
(23:04):
We bring joy, we're brand safe.
Right.
We should pressure test this a lot more, like with your core campaigns.
And it won't be a large out of pocket investment.
And now, across CPG and beverage, you can drive sales.
Like to me, that is utopia.
Who wouldn't want to exploit that?
I can't think of anyone that would want to do that.
(23:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's phenomenal that you said it.
I'll rephrase it, but it's a slam dunk.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's, that's an amazing case study.
Well, I know we may pepper in GIPHY here in a minute, but I'd love to switch gears alittle bit and get to know you even better.
Thank you.
My favorite question I ask everybody that comes on the show is has there been anexperience of your past that defines and makes up who you are today?
(23:51):
Not a single experience, but what I've been saying a lot to myself, and thank you forasking, it's interesting to be reflective.
The one phrase that keeps going on my mind is it's a chapter in the book.
And what I mean is that we have these moments now and obviously what's going on from ageopolitical perspective, whatever side you're on, the speed, like it used to be cliche,
(24:19):
things are moving so fast.
And now it's, nobody even says it anymore because it's just a constant.
And it could make you feel in that moment, like it's really spinning and you don't knowhow to get out of it.
So I'm using this theme and even when I'm being reflective for years back, I'mconsistently saying to myself, it's just a chapter in the book.
(24:45):
And it helps frame out it as a moment instead of everything is going to happen this way.
So it helps me step back and look at the incredible moments that are like, there's asaying something like you're never as good as you think you are and you're never as bad as
you think you are.
It's like.
That's right.
Somewhere in the middle is the truth.
(25:06):
He's just got Gallowayism in there somewhere that I'm stealing from incorrectly.
No, I love that notion of it's a chapter in the book because it does give you...
Sure.
Right?
I think that's the biggest thing I would take away from that is being able to step backand say, this is not everything.
This is just...
(25:26):
chapter.
Whether it's the mug, right?
Whether it's somebody threw a shoulder at you while you were walking and you're stillangry about it.
Those are the micro moments.
That didn't happen to me by the way, but it's the first thing I thought of as acomparison.
It is pretty crowded around the streets.
Well, what advice would you give your younger self if you're starting this journey allover?
(25:49):
I'm going to stick with the comparisons because it really is what I was thinking.
There are sprints that you need to win, but really the marathon is where you're going tobe build those foundational skills that are going to help you in all parts of life,
whether it's work or your personal life.
And thinking back of whether you're putting yourselves as you're 15, 20 or 25, whateveryou're thinking back to, I had that ingrained to me, but I would look back to say,
(26:17):
I'd want to put it to practice a little bit more.
The second part is you might think, or this is I would say to my younger self, that I havea strong ability to size up people pretty quickly.
It's not a skill.
It's more of a fight or flight protection.
And I tend to be right about people.
(26:38):
When I was younger, I wouldn't realize when I was wrong.
And now when I'm not right about people, it's actually a joy because I didn't pass toomuch judgment.
on them.
And it's not a pat in the back for me at all, but it's like a really beautiful, humblingfeeling when you're wrong about somebody because you gave them the chance and the space to
(27:00):
see them instead of inserting your biases to somebody.
So I think that is a really important message that I'm now telling my 17 year old self,who has a profitable car detailing business, by the way, enough to pay for gas and for
insurance and for a movie.
wow.
Okay.
So it's kind of in the family, I guess.
(27:21):
Well, I'm just curious.
You think there's something that either you're trying to learn more about or you thinkmarketers need to be learning more about today?
Yeah, and this might tail into a later topic that we might navigate to.
But one of those areas is, and it is the most cliche two letters that we could say rightnow, it's AI.
(27:41):
Right.
But I want to elaborate on this because I've noticed that it's a topic that people arefamiliar with and have an opinion on.
But I would say 90 % of the people I interact with
aren't experimenting with it.
It's more of like a binary decision in a lot of people's minds and I'm not being critical.
It's just what I've observed, which is, I'm not going to do that.
(28:04):
I don't need it.
It's going to overwhelm me.
And then you have people that you see across all social surfaces that are like writingcode and they're defining the next AI vision and they're so in it and you don't understand
a word that they're saying.
I'm noticing that there aren't a lot of people in the middle and I'm extending this tobrand marketers.
and agency leaders across the entire chasm.
(28:27):
Most senior CMO is down to somebody who just got in the business.
My point with this is I believe people need to experiment more.
Just start with a model of your choice, could be ChatGPT and type in, I need you to helpme navigate around Austin because I'm lost and just see what happens.
(28:47):
It doesn't have to be this deeply scientific thing.
And then on the other side,
because I've been using CHAP GPT, the paid version, not the $200 version, but I think it's$10 a month or so.
And I really experiment with it.
And this past week, I tried to create an ebook and integrate with Canva.
Are you familiar with Canva?
Yeah, yeah.
(29:07):
So it's supposed to have a natural tie-in and it's something I just spent a little bittime on to experiment, because I want to see if it could actually take a template from
Canva and the text that we create and turn it into something.
That was it.
Right, right.
And just like going through that cognitively, the points of friction, the areas I wasstuck or bored or frustrated and inspired is very hard to put into words to people who
(29:33):
don't experiment with it all.
So I see the overwhelming majority of people aren't experimenting with chat GPT or anytype of model enough because when the time comes when you need to be dexterous and
proficient, no matter who you are,
you're going to have a steep learning curve.
So I want to see more of that It's so much opportunity there.
(29:54):
And I think people need to experiment with more, especially when thinking about brandcampaigns and just it's all tied in.
So that's one area.
I love it.
Well, are there any trends or subcultures that you follow you think other people shouldtake notice of?
Yeah, so on the subculture side, I alluded to it in the category around AI.
Whatever social surface you prefer, mine happens to be for this conversation right now,aside from GIPHY, of course, is TikTok.
(30:22):
And I've been consuming TikTok content since it was musically when my daughter startedusing it and I saw it was such a strong trend.
And then when it became TikTok, my point is the...
influencers, creators, the people on the edge, the people that are really driving thislong tail economy of independent contributors.
(30:46):
Some of them are incredibly smart, really pushing the technology, really driving business.
And these are going to be the people that are going to have the next business across allverticals.
It used to be, I'm going to sell this t-shirt.
I'm going to integrate on a TikTok shop.
Now you're starting to see
people do very sophisticated, they were able to provide very sophisticated businesssolutions.
(31:12):
Because they're grinding it out and they're doing it.
And I think that's gonna be our future.
My point is, I don't think they're getting paid enough attention.
Right.
No, I agree.
I agree.
I actually met a magician not too long ago.
I don't know, I'm blanking on his first name.
Last name is From, but he is a full-fledged content creator and magician.
(31:33):
And just the power of his knowledge of how things like YouTube or other types of platformsand the algorithms are working and the way he goes about testing and optimizing content.
I was just completely blown away.
And so we're all the marketers in the room with me.
Just the level of science that goes into the creation process.
(31:57):
Cause we, we always see the output and it's hilarious.
It's funny.
It's shocking what, know, all of those things wrapped up into one, but the process that hewould go through to optimize content was just.
I'm so glad you brought that up because I'm not going to refer to the exact brand, but itwas like a really recap moment.
I saw it today.
There's a stat that I'm going to misquote so poorly, but a year's time in change now isabout 18 days.
(32:24):
Okay.
So whether we subscribe to that actual data point is something about that.
The point was the amount of iterations that this brand does.
And the amount of times that they change their, all their landing pages is at a very highfrequency.
So the point is, if you produce a product and it's working, it doesn't mean it's going towork 18 days from now.
(32:46):
And that type of optimization, insight driven optimization is the norm now.
It's not, look, a magician's doing it, but think about how many brands keep their pagestatic.
And then think about how many brands, like when we're talking with brand leaders acrossthe world, as far as that
experimental budget, or we could play two roles.
(33:07):
could, as like Serevi, we can strongly compliment a core buy.
We could be the core buy.
The other one is that test and learn phase.
Yeah.
Right.
It's fun.
Right.
We have data points that can prove it.
We've got the reach.
I want to see if I had a challenge to brand marketers, agency leaders, and it doesn't meanthat GIPHY is always the answer by any means.
(33:31):
But when you're thinking about a brand safe environment that could reach this many peoplewith actions that people are doing millions and billions of times a day within messaging
across all of the surfaces that everybody uses across the world, the experimentation andthe test and learn and the iterations should be borderline fun.
Right.
And we're not seeing enough of that.
(33:52):
And with total respect, let's just stick on the CMO.
I know you've talked to a bunch of CMOs lately.
It used to be an 18 month CMO gig.
Now it's like 20 minutes.
I completely understand why they will look at digital as an accountable, measurable way,whether it's an MMM model or whether it's your programmatic outputs that show the direct
(34:14):
correlation of sale.
That can become a safe addictive drug.
What I'd like to see more of is that experimentation side.
And I think every CMO listening is now like punching the ceiling of their car saying, I doall of that.
Right.
But the board won't approve me to do that because it doesn't have the data points tosupport that strategy.
(34:34):
And I think whether it's the Pepsi Mug campaign or any of the Fresh campaigns thatdelivered on the Superbowl, which is a whole other discussion, you see that the brands
that understand that a little bit, like I was thinking back to the Bud Light campaign withwith the "What's Up"
yeah, yeah, classic, classic.
(34:56):
And that is timeless, even if you watch it now.
And that wasn't too experimental, but that was like a little experimental, a little risky,but wow, what a hit.
And now nothing against insurance brands.
It's Flow, it's an Emu, it's Mayhem, it's a Gecko, it's a rinse and repeat.
(35:20):
And I think that their data shows, if it isn't broken,
Right?
And so nothing's challenged there in a highly competitive, low margin business where weneed change.
look, that's across an entire vertical that's spending billions of dollars.
And I'm sure they have every signal in the world that's showing there's no reason or noCMO.
(35:44):
Why would I change that?
If I'm getting lifts and we don't have churn and I'm getting new people to join ourinsurance company, why would I move flow out?
They've tried so many times.
So it's, what's the answer?
I don't know.
Right.
But I'm pretty sure that's going to end.
Mayhem is going to end and it's not going to be a slow draw.
It's going to be like a light switch.
(36:06):
And what are you substituting it with?
yeah, if you haven't been testing, you don't know what to substitute it with.
I'm sure they are.
But how much time is a senior exec or a CMO spending in the test and learn phase?
Probably not a lot.
That's not their fault because they're trying to keep their job.
So it's like that push pull, I think is a big opportunity in the industry with all brandsand a mug can do it as a small brand.
(36:32):
Pepsi's got 15 brands that are billion dollars.
And we're going to come back a year from now and see, like, mugs going to be like playedout.
Cause they're going to be like that billion dollar brand and then they're going to havemug that's like strawberry mug.
I hope so.
That'd be awesome.
Strawberry root beer mug.
Very weird mug.
All right, you heard it here.
(36:52):
Yeah.
I mean, you're right.
And the, remember it was a few years back.
I was on a panel talking about marketing measurement and where, where things were going.
And I remember making a comment, which is at the heart of what you're describing, which iswhen everything is going great, what can I change?
Yeah.
(37:15):
Like the spark that is at the underlying.
pin of this model, which is not actually being measured in its truest sense, right?
I mean, there are now ways you can do that, but like normally we're just looking, is thechart still going up?
Not, how do I bend the curve to a new trajectory?
That's right.
(37:35):
Think of the mindset and confidence you need to do that.
Right.
Right.
If you're across meta, you're across Google, maybe a little Amazon if you're CPG andyou're using programmatic, you have 90 % of the market served.
Right.
And if you're showing incremental gains and you don't have strong attrition, why would youexperiment?
I mean, you want to, but really, why would you do it?
(37:56):
Right.
There's no incentives really to do it.
It just has to be you, right?
That's right.
So what we welcome, categorically from a reach perspective, from a brand knowledgeperspective, meaning I know what GIPHY is, I know what it does, from a conversational
perspective, from a brand safety perspective, it's like, if you do the agency check thebox, we've got them all.
(38:22):
It's like, what do do with creative?
we can produce that in like 24 hours or we can take a much longer time and do a studioshoot.
Right.
Right.
So.
We are a very strong alternative, no matter if you're a small size company or a FortuneOne company.
And we are working, what is actually interesting is they do an analysis of our accountsthat we have active.
(38:43):
We're attracting the Fortune 100 brands.
Yeah, of course we're going after them and they have larger budgets, but across everysingle vertical, aside from pharma for regulation reasons, but I think we're gonna find
ways for OTC, brands are running to us.
Right.
Maybe a little bit because of that friction that we're talking about.
(39:03):
Maybe they're looking for alternatives.
I like to say my sales team is really strong and consultative, but I think when we're herenext year, and I hope we are, whether we're in New York or down here by South by, where
GIPHY is a year from now is going to be in a much different place.
I'd love to say because of our efforts and our wonderful platform, but I think it's goingto be because this necessary shift in the market.
(39:25):
Right.
Like you said it, the creative.
Yeah.
But how diluted has creative become?
Well, and it's unfortunate, there's not many other places where you can insert yourself ineveryone's day to day life in a way that they want you there.
Right?
They're trying to express themselves and the creative that you have out in the world is atool for them to do that.
(39:49):
And now you've married your brand to that person.
Yeah.
Almost for
And listen, if Giffey Creative was stale, then it would be just this stale old experience.
the freshness and the cultural relevancy and the timeliness, it's a perfect package for,my biggest secret is the brands that are working with us, they're like, don't tell
(40:13):
anybody.
Right?
We want you to be all of ours.
like, listen, there's plenty of impressions and plenty of reach and plenty of room.
We, once that light bulb goes off, and I've seen it times in my career, just like, wait,why has this campaign been flawlessly executed?
Wait, you over-delivered with organic distribution?
(40:33):
Wait, you're not charging us for the creative?
It's almost like too good to be true.
I need to create a little friction, I think.
Right?
Right.
So they feel like we negotiate there.
I'm like, no, we're just, we're just awesome.
Well, I have one last question for you.
As you think about the role of marketers today, what do you think is the largestopportunity or threat facing them?
(40:58):
the through line of what we discussed.
So I believe that the opportunity is thoughtful, creative, which sounds cliche to anextent.
And what I mean is that test and learn and understanding that a little bit more timethinking about not wanting to be different, but really looking at your unique selling
proposition, really looking at the essence of your brand, and then being mindful of themodes.
(41:24):
Like we're talking about personalization again, which seems to be a theme I'm hearing.
But if you're mindful mode of the mindset of messaging, like you talked about it with yourdaughter, you don't want a hard, stern message there.
It has to be the exact opposite.
There's some elegance to that.
So I think on the creative side, that is one of the largest missing opportunities.
(41:46):
Creative plus test and learn.
Got it.
Got it.
Well, Kevin, it's been a joy to have you on.
Thank you for having conversation and thanks for helping me at least attempt to be a cool.
Yeah, thank you.
It's great to be here.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com