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April 15, 2025 71 mins

Raising a strong-willed kid is harder. Even draining sometimes.  

Sitting on the floor and playing with toys felt like the worst to me. I now realize that I found other playful ways to be with my kids… but I still sometimes feel a little guilty about not being a Barbie or Legos kind of mom.

So when Dr. Shawn Hondorp invited me on her podcast, The Innovative Therapist, to talk about play and pack leadership, I have to admit, I may have baby barfed a little. But I love Shawn, and I had so much fun working out a definition of Pack Leadership with her recently, that I knew I could trust we’d have a great conversation. And I was SO right.

It turns out that a playful attitude counts as playing with your kids. Woohoo. It is also a part of my personal recipe for Pack Leadership. 

It’s a great way of thinking about leadership in any context, and I think you’ll love this conversation as much as I did. I just love Shawn.  Enjoy!

As always, thanks for listening. Head over to Facebook, where you can join my free group Mastermind Parenting Community. We post tips and tools and do pop-up Live conversations where I do extra teaching and coaching to support you in helping your strong-willed children so that they can FEEL better and DO better. If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it!

Get all the links, resources, and transcripts here: https://mastermindparenting.com/podcast-320

About Randi Rubenstein

Randi Rubenstein coaches parents raising strong-willed kids. Randi searched endlessly to find the magical resource that would help her own highly sensitive, strong-willed child. (He’s now 26, healthy and happy-ish:). She’s been passionate about helping other “cycle-breaker”  parents like herself for almost two decades.

Randi’s Web and Social Links


About Dr. Shawn Hondorp

Dr. Shawn Hondorp is a clinical psychologist whose goal is to create safe learning environments for those who want to explore innovative approaches to healing, one authentic conversation at a time. Learn more about her work, and subscribe to The Innovative Therapist Podcast, at https://drshawnhondorp.com/ 

Resources Discussed/Links

Part 1 of our discussion, What Even Is Pack Leadership? https://mastermindparenting.com/podcast-318 

Our 12-week Basics Bootcamp program is now available as a 100% online self-study course! https://mastermindparenting.com/minimasters/

Live assessment: https://mastermindparenting.com/live-assessment/

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