Money Talks: Empowering Financial Wellness in the Black Community ft Tiffany Aliche

In this episode, Dr. Raquel Martin interviews Tiffany Aliche, also known as the "The Budgetnista" about the importance of discussing money, especially within the black community. They discuss the fear and discomfort surrounding money conversations and the impact it can have on individuals and families. They also touch on the importance of having conversations about wills and estate planning, as well as the role of a financial advisor in facilitating these discussions. Tiffany shares her journey from being a teacher to becoming a renowned personal financial educator and the impact she has made through her work. The episode highlights the need for financial education and access to financial knowledge within communities. In this part of the conversation, Tiffany discusses her transition from teaching to financial education and the creation of a nonprofit business model. She shares how she helps the community through partnerships and emphasizes the importance of education and accessibility. Tiffany also talks about releasing shame and providing psychoeducation, as well as the core principles and strategies for achieving financial freedom. She highlights the challenges faced by black women in achieving financial wellness and the role of investing in growing wealth. Finally, she mentions some of her favorite financial educators. In this conversation, Tiffany Aliche and Dr. Raquel Martin discuss the importance of community, the intersection of financial health and mental well-being, incorporating financial wellness into therapy, understanding the emotional connection to money, financial self-care, and the power of persistence and relentlessness.

 

Takeaways

• Open and honest conversations about money are important, especially within the black community.
• Discussing money can be uncomfortable, but it is necessary for financial well-being and planning for the future.
• Having conversations about wills and estate planning is crucial to ensure that one's wishes are carried out and to avoid potential conflicts.
• Financial education and access to financial knowledge are essential for individuals and communities to make informed financial decisions. Transitioning from teaching to financial education can open up new opportunities to help the community.
• Creating a nonprofit business model can allow for the provision of financial education to those who may not have access or resources.

Bio

 

Tiffany "The Budgetnista" Aliche is renowned as America's leading personal financial educator and the author of the New York Times Best Seller, "Get Good with Money." With a background in education, including a Master's degree, Tiffany has empowered over two million women to save, manage, and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars through her impactful Live Richer Movement.

Her advocacy led to the passing of The Budgetnista Law (A1414) in 2019, mandating financial education for middle school students in New Jersey. Tiffany's achievements include being an NAACP nominee and the first Black woman to feature solo on the cover of Money Magazine. She co-hosts the Webby Award-winning podcast, Brown Ambition, and has made appearances on major platforms such as Good Morning America, the TODAY show, TIME, The New York Times, and more.

 

Episode Transcript

Dr. Raquel Martin (00:00):
Steve, Hello everyone, and welcome to Mind
your mental just a reminder thatthis podcast is not meant to be
a substitute for a relationshipwith a licensed mental health
professional. I know they arehard to find, and I get that I
have a bunch of resources on mywebsite if you need them, but I
am not your clinician. I am apsychologist, but I am not your

(00:21):
psychologist. So if you need anyspecific help, please look for
the help of a licensed mentalhealth professional. Learn all
you can learn from the podcast.Enjoy the episode. Welcome
everyone to mind your mentalPodcast. Today, we are joined by
Tiffany Alicia, also known asthe budget nista. She is a
renowned financial educator andauthor known for many things.

(00:41):
Alongside her New York Timesbestseller get good with money,
as well as other books such asthe one week the one week
budget. So as the founder of thebudget needs that she has led a
financial movement aiding over 2million women globally to save
pay off debt and enhance theirfinancial understanding through

(01:03):
the live richer movement. I lovethat name, by the way. So with
the background as a preschoolteacher, Tiffany's educational
approach has significantlyimpacted financial literacy,
leading to the enactment of andthis is the coolest thing in
life to me. I'm gonna be honestwith you, like, just as someone
who's trying to get into policy,this is the coolest thing in

(01:24):
life. Leading to the enactmentof the budget meets the law like
I didn't even but anyway, okay,let me stay on top. So leading
to the enactment of the budgetneeds the law in New Jersey.
What is that law? You guys mayask? Well, I'm going to tell
you, it mandates financialeducation in middle schools.
Y'all I could tell by the time Igraduated from high school. I

(01:46):
could tell you that themitochondria was the powerhouse
of the cell. I could not tellyou what to do with, like, money
when I like, when I tell youthat is, like, the coolest thing
ever. You have a millionaccolades, but that, I mean,
that's that is so cool,especially since it's so hard to
get lost fast. So Tiffany offersextensive online and in person

(02:09):
financial courses, notablythrough the live richer Academy,
and she also shares insights viaher blog and the award winning
brown ambition podcast.Tiffany's influential work has
been recognized on many majorplatforms. I remember at one
point, when I originally knew Iwas gonna have you on the show,
I would see you on TV all thedarn time. So

Unknown (02:29):
like, legit, like, I would see you on TV, I just
don't do as well because I'mtired. I was like, I would see

Dr. Raquel Martin (02:35):
it on TV on time. So like, Good Morning
America times Forbes and youmade history as the first solo
black woman featured on moneymagazine's cover in February,
2020, all of that, and she'shere today. So

Unknown (02:48):
welcome to the show.

Dr. Raquel Martin (02:50):
Thank you for having Of course, I'm such a
nerd, but the law thing was thethat was, like, the coolest
thing I'm looking into educationpolicy right now, and just there
are so many laws that, in myopinion, just don't make any
sense. And it's just like theseare things that happen. But when
I tell you, I feel like a lot ofthe work that you're doing is
helping adults, and to a pointwhere we never got to talk about
it, thinking about how you canyou will be changing the

(03:13):
trajectory of people's livesthrough that law. Because
there's so many things that Ilearned. I learned how to make a
quiche, you know, like, I knowhow to sew a pillow, but the
financial things that weactually need that are typically
the things that most adultscomplain about with their kids.
Like, you don't know how tomanage money, but I can make you
a quiche, Mom, you know, it'slike, that's not on them, so I

(03:34):
just that was the the coolestthing ever. So thank you. Can
you share with us more aboutyour journey from becoming a
teacher to becoming America'sfavorite personal financial
educator. How did yourexperiences shape your mission
to help others get good withmoney? Because I really do think
you're America's favoritepersonal financial educator. I

(03:55):
see when I y'all watch, as soonas y'all see this, you're gonna
be like, Oh, I've been seeingher face forever.

Unknown (04:01):
I've been seeing her 15 years.

Dr. Raquel Martin (04:04):
Hey, everyone, just a reminder that
mind, your mental is not just apodcast. It is also a amazing
community. If I do say somyself, it's phenomenal. I mean,
you get more access to me. Whatmore could you want in this
life? So if you want to join thecommunity. If you're not already
on the community, go to mysocial media. My social media is

(04:25):
the same Raquel Martin, PhD, andDM me the word community, so you
can get details on joining thisamazing, flipping community. You
get more access to me. Y'alllike,

Unknown (04:36):
I'm a delight. All right. All

Dr. Raquel Martin (04:39):
right. Hope to see you there. Well, it
started

Unknown (04:40):
like so many people know my story in that i My
father was a CFO and anaccountant, so when he said,
your husband, I was like, as anaccountant, I'm like, and my
four sisters and I learned aboutmoney at home. My dad was like,
the academic, you know, when itcame to money, like, this is how
you budget, this is how yousave, this is how you open a
bank account. And my mom wasreal life application. And like,
Let's go food shopping. Okay,let's go, you know, back to

(05:03):
school, close shopping. This ishow you negotiate. This is how
you look for a good deal. Sobetween the two of them, I
didn't know, because, you know,I mean, you know this as a
doctor, that way that kids willnormalize anything, yeah. And so
I just kind of assumed, like,oh, everyone talks about money
candidly, everyone navigatesfrom a place of like, hey, let's
decide as a family what we wantto say for and it really wasn't

(05:24):
until maybe, like, high schoolthat I realized, like, you don't
have Thursday night money talkat home. Wait What y'all do on
Thursday night. And especiallycollege, when debt collectors
called my dorm room, calling formy my roommate, and we thought
it was funny because 1718, yeah,and so we would do like, prank
calls back to them, changing ourvoices. We thought it was
hilarious. Don't say
nothing seriously, man. I

(05:45):
mean, the most unserious just onthere, like you want to speak to
who you sound cute. What's yourname like, be on the phone. And
so it wasn't until you know, yougo home. And I was like, Dad,
guess what such as, that'scalled the dorm room, but we
said this, and he's like, wait,what? Girl, that's serious. I
was like, Oh, is it? He waslike, yeah. I mean, she owes

(06:08):
someone, and, you know, theycould potentially go into our
bank account. They couldpotentially do this. And I was
like, Oh, he said, Well, you goback to school, tell her this,
you know, and I would go back.And so what happened was that I
believe either her her fatherpassed away, my roommate, or, I
think he passed away, and thenher mother was left to raise her
and her young daughter, heryounger daughter, and it was

(06:29):
really struggling, and so putsome things in her daughter's
name in an effort to keep headabove water. And as a result,
that's what was happening, isthat debt collectors were
calling her not because ofchoices that she made, but
because of like, choices thather mother felt forced to make
because she didn't see anotherway around. And so I was like,
it was kind of like this firsttime. I certainly didn't grow up
rich, not, I mean, my parentswere immigrants, five kids, but

(06:50):
it was kind of like the firsttime that I realized that
although things were hard, itthat, you know, that it could be
harder. You know, where it'slike, there's just not very
there's very few options, youknow? And I just was like, wow,
I didn't even know you could putstuff in your kid's name, that
was an option. And so it waskind of like the first time that

(07:11):
I realized that information waspower when it came to finances.
And so I went back to the dorm,it was like, my dad said you
should do this and this, and itwould come up again, someone
else down the hall. Can you askyour dad? What should I do?
Okay, my dad said, and then Ithought, huh, I like this, you
know, like I'm the middle child,so don't give me a task to do.
Don't

(07:32):
Let me shine.

Dr. Raquel Martin (07:34):
I'm a dance for that person. That's
something my sister in law,she's a middle child, and she
will always like, I'm the middlechild, so, you know, I guess
they just got about me, youknow.

Unknown (07:44):
So I'd be like, ah, child, don't let me get a little
shy. So then that's whathappened. It was really like my
friends asking questions, andthen me bringing it back home.
And then I thought, well, I wantto be a source of knowledge too,
not just this conduit, you know.And so I started taking classes,
I started reading books, Istarted leaning in, and then I
became the go to girl for moneyadvice. Like there was a girl
who always got the boys, andhe'd be like, Oh, girl, what

(08:07):
should I wear? You know, what?You know? How you getting the
boys? And then there was a girlwho had amazing hair. How'd you
braid your hair? What are youusing for your edges? And I was
the money girl of like, myfriend group. And then after
leaving college and hating allmy corporate internships because
I was too fun and too natural. Iremember distinctly, literally,
choosing not to work incorporate America because I was
like, what about my firm? I hadan afro. Literally, I was like,

(08:29):
19. I said, so if I work incorporate America, I can't have
this afro. Pick somebody else.

Dr. Raquel Martin (08:34):
No, and people don't realize that. Like,
you know, I'd be trying to drivehome with my students that,
like, Listen those pink locks.You got that blonde buzz cut,
honey. People had to make wholedecisions about their the
trajectory of their career. Yes,from their hair. It is not the
same. Yes,

Unknown (08:51):
it is not because you could go, you could go to work
in that now. But then I, youknow, I was so young, I
literally was like, Well, Idon't want to work in corporate.
I had these internships. It'sboring. These people are boring.
And I was just like, I want todo something fun. And when I was
in college, I used to work atthe childcare center, like, as,
like, work study, and I really,like, enjoyed it. And I said,
Well, maybe I'll just be ateacher for now, till I figure

(09:12):
out what to do. And, like,teaching preschool, because I
didn't have a teaching degree atthe time, and that was the only
place you could teach, like, ifyou had a college degree, but
not a teaching degree. And Isaid, Okay, I'm gonna go back to
school to get my teachingdegree. And I did, and then I
went back and got my master's ineducation. But I fell in love
with teaching preschool, and Istayed there 10 years. And it
was really there that I took myfinancial education to the next

(09:34):
level. When I started, I want tosay I was 2122 very close to the
age of most of the parents Itaught in Newark, New Jersey,
very black chocolates. Oh, y'allfrom Philly. Yeah, yeah. So, you
know, Newark is just like bigCompton, the Dade County, you
know, think Philly like and sothese parents, you know, I'm 21
day. 21 it's Hey, Miss Tiffany,let me hold something until

(09:56):
Friday. No, Keisha, because youdidn't give me back my 20 not.
Ma'am. You. You know, and so.But I mean, I didn't have any,
like, what are boundaries? I'm21 you 21 but, you know, and so.
But then I thought, wow, thereis a lack. I remember it this
light bul went on when someonewas telling me how they were
going to the check cashingplace. I was like, what's that?
And there, because my dad hadalready taught me when I was 16,

(10:16):
open up your bank account, thisis what you do. And they're
like, Oh, you could take yourcheck there, and they'll cash
it. I was like, for free.They're like, No girl, this how
much they take. And I'm like,wait, I don't understand. Why
don't you have a bank account?And it was just like, well, for
a lot of people, it wasn'taccessible. And I kind of didn't
like, it was the first time Igot, like, there was eye opening
of like, I grew up, certainlyfinancially, not having a lot,

(10:40):
but access to a lot ofknowledge. And I got to see what
it looked like when you didn'thave financial access, but also
there was not as much financialknowledge access to. And I
thought, okay, so then I startedtalking to like, because
basically, they were the homiesat this point. Like, girl, there
is a bank up the street. Like,when the baby's going to sleep,
I'm off, you know, like, MissCharlie will watch them. We can

(11:00):
go open the bank account.Because even if you have to pay,
you know, they're like, Oh, yougot to pay a bank fee. Like,
it's five bucks a month, and youpaying 50, $60 off your check,
you know? Or I remember when taxtime came, because I've been
doing my taxes as a teenager,because my dad taught me, and I
was like, You paying how much toh and r block? No, during nap
time, the babies are asleep, I'mdoing my own taxes on my

(11:22):
computer, and my dad justreviews them, if you want. We
could do your taxes how much I'mlike for free, just cause he'll
reveal them. That is amazing.And so that's how it all
started, because I realizedthat, like, the real difference
was these kids and their parentswere also smart. They didn't

(11:42):
have knowledge access communitywhen it came to financial
education. And I was like, ifyou knew Keisha would do Yeah.
And then she needed access topeople that could help. So that
was through me. And thencommunity. It was like, well,
now we're all working on ourdecisions together. So nap time
became like, Parent University.People would come in, and then I
remember, that's how I met myhusband. At the time, I was

(12:02):
teaching preschool, he was themaintenance man, and so he came
in. Was like, I heard you hurtpeople with your budget. I was
like, I do sit down.

Dr. Raquel Martin (12:09):
Let's go budget that man.

Unknown (12:18):
I look back on I was like, bruh, right. Like, where
are there? Like, you preschoolteachers, he

Dr. Raquel Martin (12:25):
probably messed some numbers up real
quick. I'll

Unknown (12:27):
give me a one plus one is two.

Dr. Raquel Martin (12:29):
You know what? I ain't even and you know
what, I think that we shouldtake this, you know, thank you
for helping me. Can I take youto dinner for helping me so
much? Because

Unknown (12:37):
you've been so kind.
It was just like, but it waslike, kind of like, what I
realized that? Well, one Irealized that teaching wasn't
this small bubble, because Ireally enjoyed teaching, and I
thought that teaching meant Ienjoyed teaching the babies,
because I did like, I love thebabies. I just love my kids.
Like, they're just so they werejust amazing. But I realized
it's like, no, it's deeper thanthat. You just love teaching,

(12:59):
whether it's the babies, grownups, whoever. And when that
happened, I said, You know what?I think I want to start. I
thought it'd be a nonprofitbecause I thought I'd be a
teacher forever, where I go intothe community to teach financial
education. Then the recessionhit, and my school closed
because they were nonprofitbased, and they lost, I lost my
job, and a friend of mine at thetime was like, why don't you

(13:19):
been helping people all thistime? Why don't you charge for
it? I'm like, Can I do that? Andso I started to, and nobody was
paying because everybody wasbroke. And then I had to switch
my business model instead ofcharge, because I really wanted
to help people that didn'ttypically have access and they
didn't have money. So I said,well, one of my mentors at the
time basically said to me, youshould look for contracts.
Basically, who would help thiscommunity who's getting money to

(13:41):
help them get money from thosepeople. And I was like, okay, so
I started working with theUnited Way banks paid the United
Way to help the community. And Iwas like, Well, I am already in
the community. Why don't you payme to do what the bank paid you
to do? And they were like, okay,so I started to do that partner
with different organizationsthat helped the people I wanted
to serve. And so it was such agreat shift in business model of

(14:03):
like, there is your customerthat there's sometimes there's
your paying customer. So mycustomer was my community in
Newark, New Jersey, who werestruggling financially, but the
paying customer were theseorganizations and banks who
would pay me to do the goodwork. So it was like, I could be
a nonprofit. Basically, I was afor profit that navigated kind
of like a nonprofit, and thebudget needs to was born, and 15

(14:24):
years later, that is stilllargely the business model to
try to create as much accessiblefinancial education, especially
to women of color, asspecifically to black women.
Although I always say, I don'tturn anyone away, but I center
black women in the work that's

Dr. Raquel Martin (14:40):
hot. I mean, to be honest, that's how I feel.
One I have so many roles, but Itoo feel like I'm an educator.
First. So much of being apsychologist is education,
providing psycho education abouttypical and atypical behaviors,
letting people know that, like,No, you haven't lost your mind
that situation was absurd. Andlike, there are some ways to
help you. And just thinking ofit is like. That's something

(15:00):
that you get to do. Evenstarting social media, I was
just like, there's way more of afun way to talk to people about
and it sounds insane, butthere's a way better more fun
way to talk about depression.Like, there's a way better way
to talk about depression thanwhat I'm seeing. I'm like, Y'all
like you making one on 111 oneon one, it's two, okay? Like he

(15:21):
is making it too complicated,and

Unknown (15:23):
that's legit. The reason why I was, like, there's
got y'all gotta This is not fun,like you can make a little joke.
It's depression, like theyalready sad. Make them laugh,
honey. Like, you know, like ithas to be, it's true, that
intense. So

Dr. Raquel Martin (15:35):
I love that. And also, three, through your
through your live richermovement and the aspect of being
a budget needs to you've helpedover 2 million women. What do
you feel as though not feel asthough this is something you've
established? What are some ofthe core principles or
strategies that you emphasize inthis movement to help women,

(15:55):
particularly black women andwomen of color. I center the
black experience as well, and Ialways state that like you know,
this is meant to help everyone.However, there's so many realms
where we're not centered thatthis is going to be yes, my
population of interest, whatstrategies do you emphasize to
help women achieve financialfreedom in the first place?

Unknown (16:14):
Well, as a psychologist, you appreciate
this. We open with releasing ofshame.

Dr. Raquel Martin (16:19):
I love it. There's

Unknown (16:20):
so much shame around money, so much shame
and shame shield solutions.Shame

Dr. Raquel Martin (16:25):
shield solutions, I know you. I mean,
why is that that's your next isthat's your next book? Is that
your next book? Are wecollabing? Shame shield
solutions, the mental healthimplications of finance. After
this is over, let's just writethe day after this is over, you
know, people think that they canjust tackle their money issues
and not delve into the the

Unknown (16:48):
right back where we start? No, you'll be right. I've
seen the time and time again. Ittook me probably the first five
or six years of helping peoplebefore I was like, oh, because I
would help somebody, we'd worktogether. Everything is there
automated? And then six monthslater, I ran up my credit card
again. I did that, and I'm like,what's happening here? And I
said, Okay, let's take a stepback, right? And sometimes I

(17:11):
have to, like, become MissTiffany. That's when my
preschoolers called me. I'mlike, okay, so if this is one of
my babies, three and four,what's really happening here?
Like, when they would come inbefore we got to the ABCs, I
created a safe environment forthem, right? Because, if you
come in and because, like,there's Newark and there's
Newark, I'm sure it's like thisin Philly, Newark is like, and

(17:35):
then there's a south where Itaught where it's like, Oh,
those are gunshots, yeah. Andthe baby sometimes would be
like, they shot somebodyoutside. And my parents, we went
to go see the body, and therewas a little girl, I'll never
forget, zakaya zakat. Oh, whatis her name? Something with a Z.
I think it was zakaya. I used tocall my little chocolate
Princess, because she was superchocolate. But I remember being
so disturbed, because when wewent out for a walk, every

(17:59):
afflicted drug afflicted person.We were like, Hey, so gozakiah.
And then one day I did kind oflike a family visit, and she
lived in one of the worstprojects in Newark, Seth Borden
and so, but I did, like, youknow, like I was doing kind of
like a walk through because Iused to volunteer there. And
quite honestly, like, if you'rea black woman, I mean, there's
certainly there's dangers ingeneral, but not directed at
youth. So if you're a blackwoman, plus two. As a preschool

(18:21):
teacher, they used to have uswork wear a nursing uniform. So
I have my teddy bear likenursing uniform, you know. So
wasn't nobody messing with me.And I remember going over there
to volunteer for something else,to teach financial education in
the community room, and seeingher mother with full hijab on
the corner selling drugs. Andhere goes little baby Z, sucking
her thumb, holding her blanket.That's why she knew all the drug

(18:43):
conflicted folks in theneighborhood, because she her
mother was doing it. And Iremember being like, Okay, I'm
not here to give shame to hermother. I don't know her
situation, but I told hermother. I was like, I don't know
if you know this, but when we gofor a walk, she knows all of
them, and I'm not sure if that'swhat you're wanting for her. I
said, I'm not going to tell youhow to make money or how to
support her, but there are allthese little 16 year old girls

(19:06):
kind of just chilling. Let themwatch the baby. Like, let them
watch the baby you give themtheir little $10 an hour so she
doesn't have to sit here next toyou seeing all this. And she was
like, You're right. MissTiffany, thank you, you know.
But that is the shame. Willhelp, will do nothing, but keep
you in bondage. And so it was myI decided that, like, I was

(19:28):
going to be like a mix between alove child, between Mister
Rogers and Harriet Tubman, likewe won't hit free, but, yeah,
there might be some musicalnumbers. It's gonna be a lot of
kindness. It's gonna be a lot ofkindness. It's hard enough out
here, child, I'm not here toyell at you. I'm here. We're
gonna show you the way. And so,so yeah, so one of the ways to
release shame I have learnedthrough intensive therapy, is to

(19:50):
give voice to it. And so one ofthe ways I help you know people
on their journey is that I'llshow me you mine, and then you
show me yours. So I share all.All the mistakes that I've made,
past, current, in the future,and it makes people say, Well,
Dad, I ain't do all that.Exactly No. So now, you know,
black folks, I said, See, sis,we're
not supposed to be judgy. Like,like, Okay, well, she can help

(20:11):
me out because, like, I mean,because she was a hot

Dr. Raquel Martin (20:15):
mess. Okay? Because I don't need, I don't
need no perfect niece to helpingme out. Yeah, hey, I need
somebody. Yes. Okay, yes. And

Unknown (20:23):
so we work on that. First is that, like, what is
your deepest, darkest secret?Release that shame. Give voice
to it, say the thing out loud.You know, fear makes the wolf
bigger than he is. Like, youknow, like you're so scared,
you're so scared, you're soscared, only to find out you're
not the only one. Then we get towork, which is like, what is
your desired outcome? So we canstart to create the plan toward

(20:43):
it. It always starts withbudgeting. Now you have to do
that like the every two, threeyears or so. Prudential does
this study called the AfricanAmerican financial experience,
and they found that the numberone fight. Can you guess the
number one financial goal forthe average black person that
does the study, what do youthink your number one goal is
financial goal?

Dr. Raquel Martin (21:05):
I mean, is it as simple as to not be out of
not being dead? Yes.

Unknown (21:09):
Number one financial goal for black folks, according
to the study, is to get out ofdebt. What do you think the
overall number one goal foreverybody else is like, if you
were to mix like white, Asian,everybody else? The number one
goal for them, probably to buy ahouse, is to grow wealth. Grow
what to grow wealth. But blackfolks are always in deficit

(21:31):
versus, you know what? I mean,always on the offense, versus,
like, okay? Or always on thedefense versus the offense. And
I said, then the problem is thatdebt free is a goal, but not the
goal, okay? And so I help. Nextstep is to reset the goal, which
should be to grow wealth as itmeans to you, wealth might just
mean I can afford my bills. Ican go on vacation once a year,

(21:52):
of my family, my kids, Can DoSoccer, whatever that looks
like. It doesn't have to be tomake a million dollars, because
the problem with making andcentering getting debt free is
that's not enough, okay? Youknow, like there are people who
are on house and they don't havedebt, okay? And, like, my seven
year old nephew, Roman, doesn'thave student loans or coroner or
whatever. Romans broke. Okay?That freedom is not, you know,

(22:14):
that freedom is not

Dr. Raquel Martin (22:17):
even buy his own fruit snack. I

Unknown (22:19):
mean, I mean, he's over the house. Like, who ate my
Wait, first of all, sir, itbelongs to me. And so. So debt
freedom is very limiting, ifthat's the goal. So resetting
the goal is next. Like, how do Igrow wealth as it is meaningful
to me? Whatever that looks like.And then we start with like, how

(22:41):
does budget play a role in that?How does managing your debt play
a role? How does managing yourcredit play a role? How does
earning play a role? And so,like, those are, like, the fun,
fundamental, foundational thingswe work on, shame, goal setting,
and then budget, credit, debt,earning. And we start with
there, and from there, you know,people's minds start to open,

(23:01):
like, wait, I can achieve more.And so that's what we do.

Dr. Raquel Martin (23:04):
I love that, and I love the fact that when
you talked about wealth, youtalked about defining wealth in
different ways. Becausesometimes people, they mention
wealth, and they're using thismyopic or limited view. It means
like, oh, okay, that means Ihave to accrue a certain amount
of money. But when you mentionedthat you state that wealth can
be it can be purchasing a home,or it can be taking your family

(23:25):
on a vacation. There, there areso many different aspects to
wealth, and understanding theuniqueness of that to your
experience makes it so that youcan streamline and be more
specific with your goal, right?Because when it comes to mental
health stuff, one of my biggestpet peeves is when stuff is too
abstract. Like, oh, you know,just feel better. What is what
would you mean feel better?Like, what does feel better mean

(23:46):
to them? Just feel better. Oneperson's feel better can be
getting six hours of sleep.Another person can be like, I've
always gotten six. I'd actuallywould love to get eight. And I
love the fact that you're ableto tailor that to the
individual. And it makes methink, do you think, or it
sounds like you've alreadyidentified, but what are some of
the systemic barriers that yousee black women facing when it

(24:07):
comes to achieving financialwellness, and how can they
navigate those challenges thatare unique to them particularly

Unknown (24:15):
well, what's really hard for black women in
particular is that typically,They are not only looking after
their family that they birthedbut also typically are looking
after the family that birthedthem. Okay, and so it's really
hard to get ahead when one so ifyou ask the average white
person, like, who owns a home,did your family, there's a study

(24:37):
that was like, did anybody helpme with the down payment? Oh
yeah, my grandmother. Oh yeah,my grandfather, my mom, my dad,
and because they were laws inplace, when granny bought her
house, they were literally lawsin place that gave them gi the
GI law, the bill like there werelaws in place that allowed the
Homestead Act, that gave accessand tools to folks that were not

(24:57):
black to get access to real.Leave the fundamentals of wealth
in America, which ishomeownership, you know. And so
Granny got her house for 25,000is now worth 1.2 million. So she
could pull a little equity outand slide grand you know,
grandbaby 50,000 for downpayment. And you'd be surprised.
Black people are like, wait, youwas getting down payment money,
right? Like, like,

Dr. Raquel Martin (25:17):
I remember hearing this story about someone
talking to their realtor. It wasa black woman, and she was like,
and they just stated, like, Oh,can you just get that money as a
gift? Like, can you ask just arelative? They found a new
realtor the next because theywere just like, that was just
such a ridiculous like, theylooked at her like, she was
like, why are you even at Ican't work with you because now

(25:39):
I'm you don't, you don't evertake the heck out of me, even
with the GI bill so many people,because that's the norm. Yeah,
that's the norm. There wereblack soldiers too, for non
black people, for non blackpeople.

Unknown (25:48):
And so like that is like that. So that piece is
really it's a challenge tonavigate. Of like, how much
responsibility is yours to lookafter, like, family you know
that birthed you and look afteryou, and how we know that the
family that you gave birth to,you know, these are your
children. Like, this is yourresponsibility. And so that is
really hard to navigate, becauseit's not as easy as like, Well,

(26:10):
you gotta tell big mommy, no,right? Not big mommy that raised
you when your mom was not here.We telling big mommy, no. We
tell pop, who took me on, whenmy father, you know, was working
so much and was financiallysupporting me, but was not here,
mostly for me, because he had towork so hard. Like, that's not
such an easy, you know, it's notan easy one way thing. And so
what I share is, like, we like,I like to look holistically at

(26:32):
your life, right? So, like, whatare your desired outcomes? Who
are you serving? Who are youhelping? What do you want for
yourself and what needs to bedone? You know? Like, if you are
working a low paying job, whatyou know, what can we do to
increase income? There are somethings we can do like that are
outside of your job. I don'tthink enough Well, I saw an
article that gave me a lot ofhope that the Wall Street

(26:53):
Journal did that said there'sthis huge uptick of black people
investing in the market. And Ilove that for us, because so
much of the like, a friend ofmine teaches like, this is how
you invest in stocks, this ishow you trade. So much of that
has been purposefully taught ina way that is not culturally
relevant. So you're like, Idon't understand. It's like, but
if you said it this way, you'relike, oh, okay, that makes

(27:16):
sense. Why don't you say thatway? And so, yes, and so, so
there is this huge uptick, somuch so that I think it was
like, Gen Z, or millennials.There are more black millennials
in the market relative to thepercentage of their population
size than black Millennials thanwhite millennials, which I was
like, wow. Because this is a wayto offset your job. Might say
this is what you get paid, butyou if you are able to live

(27:38):
below your means. So here arethe rules. You have to make
money, whatever that looks like.You have to live below your
means or make more than youspend, because you have to have
some excess. With some of thatexcess, you save some for
emergencies, and with the rest,you must invest. So investing is
going to look like whatever itmight be a business, it might be
real estate, it might be themarket. It is the only way to
grow any sort of money outsideof your job, because if you

(28:01):
invest long enough and arepatient enough, eventually that
investment will put you out ofwork. You know, like, let's just
say you're putting aside a few1000 a year, a few 1000 a year.
You have some market, some yearsthat the market goes really up
and over time, if you investconsistently enough and long
enough, and maybe it's aproperty and a business and the
market, and before you know it,like my investment in the budget

(28:22):
needs to put me out of work. Ino longer teach preschool. The
budget needs to pays me. I mean,for real, like, I mean there are
months where, where every monthgross I make. I mean, maybe four
or five times more in a monthwhat I used to make annually as
a preschool teacher. Where elsecan you do that, but invest?
Yeah, you know. And so, like,but like, in the market, I have

(28:44):
friends who've made 10s ofmillions of dollars in the
market and started off as a viceprincipal. You know what I mean?
Like, it's just time and energyand investment of yourself into
learning the thing. And what Ilove is that there's so many
financial educators who willmake it culturally relevant,
whether it's Terry ijama,whether it's earn your leisure,
you know, whether it's Ian, aWall Street Trapper who

(29:08):
literally came from the streetand will explain investing to
you, like, Okay, you trappedoutside. Let me break it down
for you how it's similar to whatthey're doing at Wall Street.
And you're like, Oh, that's it.Yes, that's it. And so I love
that you know this culturalrelevance. So it's like, oh,
it's not beyond me. And so whatI love is that the market does
not know your color, that youare able to get access to income

(29:33):
and money for yourself and yourfamily in a way, at least right
now, they have not figured outhow to lock us out from so you
better get it while they'regetting this good, because I
have a feeling with that articlecoming out, they're gonna be
looking for ways. Well, yeah,once

Dr. Raquel Martin (29:43):
they figure out, I mean anything that evens
the playing field, right? Like Iremember hearing that the
Masters is the new bachelors,and I was just like, I have
never heard anyone state thatthe Masters is the new
bachelors, or education isn't asimportant. Until I kept hearing
ARTICLES OF. A black women beingthe yes educated demographic,

(30:04):
and now all of a sudden, I mean,it's just a degree, what? Yeah,
just a degree that kept so manypeople out of the spaces that
you now inhabit and were able togrow in. Now it's just a degree.
Yes, you're right. I'm actually,I'm going to have to reach out
to some of those people, askthem to come on too, because I
was gonna ask you that was gonnabe my next favorite, next
question. Like, in addition toyou, who are some of your

(30:26):
favorite financial educators?Okay, so Sam, again, who were
the the three that you

Unknown (30:30):
mentioned? Oh, there's, like, of course, there's earn
your leisure. This is TroyRashad. They're awesome. Okay,
there's Wall Street trapper.Wall Street trapper,

Dr. Raquel Martin (30:36):
I'm reaching out to Wall Street Trapper first
on the name alone. Ain't gonnalie. Like that. You have peaked
my interest.

Unknown (30:42):
And so there's Terry John, okay, so these are
investing folks. Mostly I'mtrying to think of like so
there's also like Jamila ofJourney to launch. She has a
financial podcast herself.There's my podcast partner,
Mandy Woodruff for brownambition. And so she, what I
love about Mandy is that shefocuses a lot about negotiating
higher pay for yourself incorporate America. She's really

(31:02):
good at that, trying to think,like so many people I came up
with, kind of sat down. You'relike, who else? I

Dr. Raquel Martin (31:09):
mean, you gave us a lot of names like, and
also like, you have yourpodcast, which I know you be
dropping gems every single,every

Unknown (31:16):
single episode. No, but there's never enough. Yeah,
because the thing is, everybodyhas their specialty. Like,
right? Some people, it's realestate. Some people are
generalists. Like, I find myselfbeing on our podcast. We talk
about money, personal finance,business career, and our brown
skin, and so, yeah, there isthis. There are a myriad of

(31:37):
people that you can be like, Oh,for this specific thing, I want
to lean in, okay, you know. AndI think it's really important to
do so that I don't believe thatsomebody should be the end all
be all you know, because noone's going to know all the
things. Some people are going tobe really good at something, and
you're like, Okay, I go to themfor budgeting advice. I go to
this person for credit, I go tothis person for investing in the
market. And this one real estateor this one estate planning,

(31:59):
it's important to build a team.I believe that community and we
work best in community. Yes, myparents are both born and raised
in Nigeria, and the first time Iwent, I did not really
understand how our village wasset up until my dad was
introducing all these peoplethat we would see as we were
walking and taking the tour ofthe village. And he would my
last name is Alicia, and hewould be like, Oh, that's Samson
Alicia, and that's Macy Alicia,and that's Lacon Alicia, and

(32:21):
that's Ronnie Alicia. And I'mlike, because Alicia is not a
common last name, it's just meand my sisters, my Mom and Dad,
for the most part, here inAmerica. And I was like, how was
that by Alicia? And my dadlooked at me like I was dumb,
like,
it's the village. When I tellyou, I know that look like this
child
this he was like, the village isyour family. I was like, wait
what? He was like, That's howvillages were set up. He was

(32:44):
like, that. It's like, you know,like your your grandparents,
your nieces, your aunts,everyone lives in this village.
It's part of your family. Andthen your mother's village is
over there. And then when I wasinterested in your mother, the
elders would get together andverbally go down our family tree
to make sure that there was nooverlap. He was like, we not
like some of these other folksthat we marrying

Dr. Raquel Martin (33:09):
cousins, adults, just like they will
educate and throw shape. And Ibe like, I

Unknown (33:13):
love it. I love it, right? He was like, people say
so much about Africa. He said,But we wasn't doing it.
I mean, it would be, becauseliterally, you could meet a six
year old in the village and theywould know your name, and they
would say, ah, your father. Isthis your grandfather? Is this
your great grandfather? Oralhistory is so important to
African culture, yeah. And soevery child is taught, like,

(33:33):
back, like six generations. Andso one day when they are the
elders, and they have to, oh no,because you guys shared the same
grandfather. Sorry, Y'all nottalking, you know. And so that
really opened my eyes about,like, we I could be walking with
my cousin, who was like, sevenat the time, and a woman would
be, like, sweeping her front,chichi, I heard you came number

(33:54):
one in your Spanish, your yourmath today, congratulations. And
I'm like, and she'd just bebeaming, like, Oh, thank you,
auntie. I thought about like,what that must do, that everyone
here knows you, youraccomplishments. If you active,
your mother told me you'reacting up in church, I'll see
you. You're like, because everyAuntie could give you that, that
spanking, you know,unfortunately, yes, I will see

(34:14):
you, yes. And so I just thoughtlike, you know, that is the
space that we came from thiscommunal living, this village
mentality, that every child hereis my child as well, that I'm
here to love on you, look afteryou, and make sure that you're
safe. And so somehow, you know,we've come here to United States
and lost so much of that. Andwhat I'm trying to do is like

(34:39):
rebuild that community with thispurpose of getting back
financially strong, like you'renot alone and you are not to be
you're not supposed to do it byyourself, and I'm not supposed
to be the only teacher. Auntielooks after you, your
grandmother, your mother, youruncle. Everyone here is looking
after what's best for you. Andso I'm trying to recreate that,
you know, through this financialeducation space. Is because

(35:00):
that's where we thrive.

Dr. Raquel Martin (35:01):
I love that. I repeat it often, and I'm going
to keep repeating it until I'mno longer on this earth, and
then I hope somebody elserepeats it. That therapy is not
required to heal. It is anamazing addition therapy. You
don't need therapy, but you doneed community. It's not
possible to do it in isolation,because you need the support of
those around you. And as someonewho is a psychologist and who

(35:23):
also trains clinicians comingup, I'm very interested, you
know, I know we're going towrite a book on this because
we've established this, but I'mvery interested in the
intersection of financial healthand mental well being. So what
kind of advice would you give totherapists or social workers or
counselors or any you knowlicensed mental health
professional on incorporatingfinancial wellness. I'm

Unknown (35:45):
not a therapist, obviously, but when I first
start, when I work with someone,I usually say, how do we get
here? Tell me your story. Yeah,you know, like, and they're
like, Huh? I'm like, well, thenI might give them a snippet of
mine, just so they canunderstand what I mean. Like,
Oh, I made these financialmistakes, and then this
happened, then this happened,and this is how I got here. And
some people go far as back aswhen I was six, I'm here to I'm

(36:05):
here for it, or just the lastsix months. And so, because I
want to know, like, you are hereasking for me to help you with
your credit. But how do we gethere? Is what I want to know,
because I you won't be able tohelp your whoever you're helping
without understanding, like, whyare they making these decisions?
Is it a place of fear? Is it aplace of no knowledge? Sometimes

(36:28):
it's like, oh, I'm actually notafraid. I just didn't know.
Yeah, you know. Is it that, youknow? Maybe there's this
parental like, Oh, my mom alwaystold me that I should not have a
credit card, and that's why, youknow, I'm struggling now to get
a home because I don't have anycredit, you know, because
sometimes the solution is simpleand sometimes the ask is simple,
but the solution is way lesssimple because I'm needing more

(36:50):
help than maybe that even I canprovide. So just like asking,
like, you know, likeincorporating those type of
questions. Like, my sister has adoctor now, who she said, like,
this is just a general doctor.She said, Girl, this lady asked
me about everything but myhealth. Like, but my she'll be
like, how your feet, how's yourhair growing? How's your stool?

(37:11):
And I love that. She was, like,I never had a doctor ask about
all these surrounding aspects ofmy life. And I think that asking
that, incorporating that, like,well, how are you financially?
How does that make you feel?Yeah, how'd you get there? You
know, when you were spendingmoney, what's the voice saying
in your head? You know, like, isit the voice of like, girl, get
it. You deserve it. Or look atyou again, once again, messing

(37:33):
up. Like, what is that voice? Sothat way you could pull back and
say, Okay, this is the general,this is the overall work we need
to do, because it's showingthrough the way you're
navigating your money. It'snever just money. There's so
much meaning behind that money.And the way someone navigates
their money will tell you a lotabout how they feel about
themselves, how they feel aboutthe world around them, how they

(37:54):
feel about their place in thisworld. You know, like I did not
realize it wasn't until I havean amazing therapist. Dr green,
Hey sis, she's best. Doctorgreen, like, you know black
women. I'm like, I don't know.Doctor green could be 35 or 45
maybe even 50, who knows. But Ijust love doctor Listen,

Dr. Raquel Martin (38:10):
I know you want to shout out my clinician's
name because I need, like, Ineed her to have at least some
aspect of space, just in case Ineed to reschedule. So people

Unknown (38:18):
be like, Who? Who? Doctor green. I'm like, Just
keep it at that.

Dr. Raquel Martin (38:21):
Yeah, they'd be like, oh. Dr Martin, who's
your doctor? None of yourbusiness, because I need her to
have a little bit ofavailability. And I told her
that. I told her, I was like,Girl, I don't give you
information to nobody, honey,because, like, they gotta be
doing real bad. And I'm full.

Unknown (38:35):
Like, okay, girl, I guess.
But she's amazing. But it wasthrough our talks about money
that made me realize, oh, I havea worthiness issue. Because I
would say something like, duringthe pandemic, everybody was
buying, like, the peloton bikes.And I was, I don't know,
offhandedly, we were just like,chit chatting, and I was like,
Oh, yeah. Like, you know, I knoweverybody's getting the peloton

(38:57):
bike. And my podcast partnerManny wanted to get one, and I
was just told, girl, just told,girl, just get it. You make good
money. I don't know why you're,you know, like, you know, if
it's, if it was a financialthing, I get it. But just get
it, you know, like, you're, youhave two kids, you're really
stressed, and you want to beable to move your body. Get the
bike. It's not going to put youin financial peril. And Dr Green
was like, What about you,Tiffany? And I was like, oh, no,

(39:19):
I
can't get the talk about me,yes.
And she was like, why are you inAre you struggling financially?
She knew I was I said no. Andshe was like, Well, why can't
you get the bike? And I almostsaid, like, it's almost like,
well, I don't deserve to havethat. Why should I get it? And I
was like, Oh my gosh, wait. Ididn't. It was through
conversations about money that Irealized I was struggling with

(39:41):
feeling deserving of goodthings, you know, because I
learned growing up that thatthere was safety in silence and
that the smaller I can makemyself, the safer I could be.
Don't ask for too much. So sheand I named it the small piece
of chicken syndrome, because Iwas a type that I. Be like, Oh,
hey, everybody, you know, I madechicken, and everyone else could

(40:03):
choose. And I would, before youeven would choose what chicken
you want, I would take the smallpiece and be like, Imma, take
the small piece so everyone elsecan have the big piece, as long
as everyone is good, that Icould be safe. So I would
volunteer for the small piece ofevery part of life. You can have
the bigger room, even though I'mpaying for vacation, you can
have the bigger piece ofchicken, even though you're
vegan, you can, you should getthe bike, not me like and I

(40:25):
said, so it was through thatlens that we realized there's
something happening here. Whatis that voice telling you? And
it was really, I mean,everything dates back to,
obviously, childhood. And forme, it was really like, you
know, sometimes growing upAfrican could be trauma in
itself. And there was just a lotof, you know, like, be small, Be
quiet, be easy, or they'retelling the pain, yeah. And so I

(40:49):
really learned to be verypleasing and easy. And I'll take
this one piece and everything'sfine, which taught me that
upbringing teaches you to haveno boundaries. And I didn't, you
can always encroach and havewhat is, quote, unquote, mine.
Because if that's going to keepme safe, I don't mind giving it
all away. You can have it. Andso it was financially, talking
about my money that brought thatout, because I did not know

(41:10):
that, because with all that I'veaccomplished, you would think
like not Tiffany. And I didn'tknow that until having the
conversations about what Iwouldn't buy myself, what I
didn't think I deserved to havefinancially. It wasn't about the
money. It was me thinking likemore meant exposing myself to
harm and undoing some of thosepractices that, like you can

(41:32):
have the thing Tiffany, like youcan choose this, even if chicken
is their favorite. You can havethe biggest piece, you know,
like, you know, I mean,sometimes, every once in a
while, it's nice to be like,Okay, you're a guest, but every
single time, like, Okay, you'rea guest.

Dr. Raquel Martin (41:43):
But every single time, right here, every
Sunday for the past six months,honey, you are no longer a guest
here. Yeah.

Unknown (41:50):
And so just in life, you know, she'll remind me of
she'll be like, are you taking asmall piece of chicken again?
And I'm like, Oh, I love that.So I just say like, you know. So
as a clinician, as a therapist,a psychologist, that like, like,
you know, you can learn a lot bythe way people manage their
money, by how they think aboutthemselves. Yeah,

Dr. Raquel Martin (42:03):
I love the fact that you mentioned, like,
what is when you're spendingmoney? What is the voice in your
head stating and also justincorporating we did an episode,
I think was actually our firstone of the season of talking
about self care, and me talkingabout financial self care, like,
and understanding that, like,self care isn't always going to
be sexy, and half the time it'snot even fun, but it's necessary
for you to get to the fun, tothe fund that you deserve,

(42:24):
right? Yeah, and I said, like,self care is not, it's not like
lingerie is tube socks andpossibly, like, a high cut
brief, because, like, you justneed something that's going to
get you to where you need to go.And a lot of people don't think
about financial self care. I'mthinking about the decisions
they make in scarcity and wherethat may come from, and they
think that money is just money.And you mentioned a very good

(42:44):
part, that money is never justmoney, it's never well. Thank
you so much for coming on theshow. First of all, tell the
people where to find you as wellas I mean, they can find you on
TV. Beyonce, she has this thing,like, you can find me on the
radio. We could find you on TV.

Unknown (43:00):
When she said that, I was like, she said, one time
only the radio can play me.Girl, yes, sometimes you gotta
talk. You got to do that.
You can find me. Well,obviously, my books by get good
with money, which is my New Yorktime best seller. It's available
everywhere, including get goodwith money. Comista.com, you

(43:21):
know, for everything else. AndI'm the budgetist on all the
social platforms, YouTube,Twitter, I don't really tick
tock, although I'm there.Instagram is probably my
favorite. And Facebook and brownambition, if you love podcasts,
like I have an amazing one thatwhere we talk about exclusively
money, career, business andnavigating all of those things
in our brown skin. And myselfand my podcast partner, Mandy.
We're like, eight, seven oreight years in, and so we have a

(43:43):
good time. It's Monday,Wednesday and Friday. I love
that.

Dr. Raquel Martin (43:45):
And I know you don't tick tock that much,
but you should actually look upyour name on tick tock, because
people tag your book a lot. Iknow they do. Somebody told me
that, yeah, like, about like, aslike, good reviews. There was
this, and you ain't gotta saynothing about them. But there,
there's this book, Rich Dad,Poor Dad. That's like, supposed
to be, like, a very big book,and one of the biggest tiktoks
with your name in it is, like,what you should read instead of

(44:06):
this book. So like, I don't knowif you get a time, you should
look up your name. Like, peoplereview on over there. Yeah,
people review your book all thetime and talk about, like, how
helpful it is, because youprovide tangible things. You
provide steps. And you know, alot of people, yes, we want to
know the background of stuff,but we also want to know, like,
these are tips that you need todo. So you need to go on over to
tick tock and, like, get yourlet's go ahead.

Unknown (44:26):
I just hired a new young a new young girl. Yeah,
you need to know, honestly, ifyou want

Dr. Raquel Martin (44:29):
to boost up your stuff, you need to stitch
those videos. Hi, I wrote thisbook. And also, did you know
that, in addition to having thisamazing book, I also do the
podcast. I'm just saying that'strue. I'm just saying, you know,
all right,

Unknown (44:41):
I'm gonna take it from the good love your book. It's
the radio. I'm on the radio.

Dr. Raquel Martin (44:46):
You want it now. But also, are there any new
projects? Project, because Ithink I know you have your
community, but is your communityalways open?

Unknown (44:55):
Yeah. So I have an online school called the
literature Academy, and so,yeah, but like a lot of my
community. Are free. So there'sa big one on Facebook, which is
just dream catchers. So you canlook that up. There's like
500,000 people in that group,yeah, and so. But if you here's
the thing, if you go to thebudgetista.com there's all these
tools, resources, access to thecommunity, buy books, everything
is there. And so if you'relooking for help, free or

(45:17):
otherwise, you know, all thosethings are there. That's

Dr. Raquel Martin (45:19):
amazing. Well, thank you so much for
coming on the show. I very muchappreciate it. I will get back
to your assistant about weshould probably come up with a
proposal for so like, you know,I will give you some time. I
know you're super busy, but wedo need to start working on
this. Like, we've had this ideafor like, 10 minutes and yet,

(45:39):
no, we don't have any timeline,so I will give about this, and
you know, we'll roll it out, andwe will just go from there. And
yeah, I look forward tocollaborating with you on this
project, being right with you,and all on the radio as well.

Unknown (45:55):
I look forward to it

Dr. Raquel Martin (45:57):
people like people. Money is not just money.
So, yeah, I'll let you know. Iknow you're busy, so send you a
message, and we'll just go fromthere. I'm so glad we thought of
this. This was great.

Unknown (46:08):
I'm glad you didn't have me, yeah, but I'm

Dr. Raquel Martin (46:11):
glad I got no more time for nothing else.
Don't you put me down for this.You know, we'll see. My mom
calls me persistent andrelentless. So you will

Unknown (46:19):
see, are you only child? No, I'm not. I'm not. But
let me say something.

Dr. Raquel Martin (46:23):
Let me say something I learned very early
on, you know, Philly and stufflike, advocate for myself. So,
like, I'll be, like, just, Ijust want to confirm. They used
to be, that's the thing I alwayssay. I just want to confirm.
What are we doing, though?Because, like, and, you know,
even venturing into the smallbusiness place and stuff like
that, my mom has always said, ifyou're already at No, if you
don't ask the question, you'llstay there. I pitch myself. I

(46:45):
ask questions, I'd be like, Oh,I said this on seven days ago.
So hey, just a gentle nudge. Youhaven't emailed me back, and
even if the answer, even if theanswer is no, I'm gonna need a
verbal No, okay? Or you willhear from me. I, you know, I
don't get embarrassed. So youwill hear from me. I

Unknown (47:04):
love that every it's smart for seven days, because
often times when people don'trealize that someone not
answering you back doesn't meanit's no sometimes it's like, I
didn't get Yeah, or it slippedthrough. A lot of times it's
Yeah, and a

Dr. Raquel Martin (47:15):
lot of times, let me tell you something, when
people, even when people like,say no, I'm like, oh my god, I
must not have explained myselfwell, because there's no way,
there's no way you can say no tome, because that, because I this
is a fantastic idea. So, like, Ijust need to explain myself
better, and don't tell me. Don'ttell me. We'll see. Because
that's not a no. That's now Iget boundaries when you tell me

(47:38):
no, no means no, but don't saybaby to me, honey. Okay, I will
schedule an email to be sent insix weeks. Oh my god. And
persistent and relentless.

Unknown (47:49):
Y'all let me that's he should in the pocket. My mom be
like, Wow, picture myself.

Dr. Raquel Martin (47:55):
Who else gonna do it? No, that's smart.
So if y'all get nothing fromthis episode. One, money is
never just money. And two, pitchyourself, y'all, if they don't
say, No, that's not enough. Ineed a verb. I teach my son all
the time. Okay, so we needverbal. You need to respect
verbal and non verbal nose, butthat verbal one is the only
thing I can see via email. Okay,so you said later and I will

(48:16):
legit after that. I'd be like,great. I will send, I will put
an email schedule sin, six weeksfrom now, at 7:05am, just so
that I get the answer before mywork, our long process. You
gotta put yourself in this wholebuilding a company. I'm like,
Man, this is a crazy but let metell you something. You ain't
going, you ain't gonna, I'llwork me. There are plenty of
people who are like, they havebigger platforms and bigger

(48:39):
networks, and they even made mesmarter. But let me tell you
something you not gonna outworkme exactly which like for real.
That's probably something Ishould probably talk to my
doctor about as well. But yeah,thank you so much for coming.

Unknown (48:50):
Thank you.