January 1, 2026 • 91 mins
What if the most important moment in meditation is not the breath you follow, but the instant you notice you’ve wandered—and choose to return with love? James Baraz joins us to unpack that gentle pivot, showing how a kind return trains patience, forgiveness, and steadiness in daily life.
James Baraz's website: https://www.awakeningjoy.info/
We walk through practical instruction, the value of real silence, and how to read the room so guidance supports rather than crowds out insight.
James traces his journey from early retreats with Joseph Goldstein and time with Ram Dass to taking the teacher’s seat with humility. He shares two deceptively simple rules that shaped his path—say “I don’t know” when you don’t, and don’t fear looking foolish—and how they dissolve both imposter syndrome and inflated self-image. From there, we get tactical about secular teaching: speak in people’s own idiom, avoid trigger words without diluting meaning, and anchor practice in ethics. Integrity isn’t optional; it’s the foundation that actually calms the mind and builds trust.
We broaden the lens to social impact—climate, inequity, and the race between fear and consciousness. Mindfulness is a gateway, not a finish line. When we embody calm and care, classrooms quiet, teams soften, and communities shift. James offers an intention practice to fuel purpose, plus a reminder that transformation is real: we can rewire toward generosity, clarity, and compassion. There will be sorrow and beauty; keep turning toward the light, and let your light help others see.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Welcome everybody.
Hope everyone's well.
Today I'm I'm honored to welcomeuh James Barris here, who's
joining us from North Berkeley,California, which happens to be
just a few streets away fromwhere I live too.
James is one of my favoritemindfulness meditation teachers
on the planet.
(01:11):
He brings a smile to my faceevery time I think of him.
But uh James has been around theblock as a teacher of
mindfulness and meditation.
He has been a teacher ofmeditation since 1978, which is
almost as long as I've beenalive.
He's a creator and a teacher ofthe Awakening Joy course, which
(01:32):
has been around for about morethan 15 years.
The Awakening Joy course, youcan take it online and as well
as in person if you're inNorthern California.
But he leads retreats andworkshops and classes all around
the world.
He's a co-founder of Spirit RockMeditation Center, which many of
you are very familiar with.
(01:55):
But uh James is a co-founder ofit along with Jack Cornfield and
others.
He wrote the book calledAwakening Joy.
He's a guiding teacher for OneEarth Sangha, which is a website
and a community devoted toexpressing a mindful Buddhist
response to climate change.
And he's just a very greatteacher who I highly recommend.
(02:20):
So I remember my first timelistening to James.
I was a monastic at a monastery,and I was walking what's called
a loop trail at a Bayagirimonastery, listening to various
Dharma talks that I woulddownload online.
(02:41):
And I just found this randomtalk from James one day.
But I just remember vividlywalking around this trail,
listening to a talk from James.
And I just remember thinkinglike he just sounds like such a
kind man, and there was just somuch of like a personal
connection there that I felt youcould tell that there was a lot
(03:03):
of depth.
Almost kind of had this to me,it sounded like yeah, like a
father or grandfather figure,someone who had deep
perspective, deep care, nojudgment, but a lot of wisdom.
And it never occurred to me thatI might meet be able to meet him
one day, and I'm very glad thatI did, and just feel very uh
(03:24):
connected to James on a fewdifferent levels.
But my wife and I had the honorof him uh presiding over our
wedding a few years ago, whichis you know one of the best days
of my life, and so I wanted tothank you again, James, for
facilitating that.
But so it's a deep honor towelcome James Bear.
(03:46):
He's one of my first excited tointroduce him to those of you
who haven't been exposed to himyet.
And so without further ado, I'dlike to welcome you, James, to
Mastermind.
SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
Thanks, Sean.
Lovely to be here with you andeveryone on the call.
Maybe I'll just reciprocate orrespond and just say I'm a big
Sean Fargo fan.
He's a good guy.
That for me, that's that'sprobably as important as
anything else.
He's somebody that I respect,trust, have great affection for,
(04:19):
and really inspired by what he'soffering to others, really just
wanting to help theconsciousness movement grow with
high integrity and a generousheart.
And I remember Sean when he wasat Spirit Rock in the when we
still had the trailers and andhe was in the front office
(04:42):
answering phone calls and beingthere for people.
And I thought, oh, what a greatgatekeeper we have.
Because the person who answersthe phone calls and coordinates
events, helps coordinate and andwelcome people there, is
probably one of the mostimportant people in my mind
because he's there who peopleinterface with.
(05:05):
And so it's just a realpleasure.
And as he said, I officiated hiswedding and Casey.
And I love doing weddings, it'sjust a celebration of love.
And so, in general, it's a it'sa joy, but it was a particularly
very beautiful occasion that Icould uh impart my love and and
blessing to your marriage.
(05:26):
So and it's great to be herewith everyone, with you and
everyone.
Let's explore consciousness,mindfulness, and sharing this
with others.
So looking to have have a goodtime, as I said to Sean just a
moment before we we started.
Looking, I I think this is gonnabe fun, hopefully helpful,
useful, but just let's make itan enjoyable experience for all.
(05:51):
So that's my intention.
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
Thank you, James.
Really appreciate that.
Would you like to start by uhleading us in a guided
meditation?
SPEAKER_03 (05:59):
Yeah, sure.
And since you are becomingteachers of mindfulness, I
thought that maybe I'd offer youthe way I share mindfulness
instructions and we can sittogether.
So whatever is useful for you, Iknow you're probably many of you
have a strong mindfulnesspractice, but I'll share as if
(06:21):
we're all doing it together forwhether or not the first time,
just as reminders, and we cansit for what would you say, 10,
15 minutes, or how long wouldyou say, Sean?
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
Yeah, that sounds that sounds good.
SPEAKER_03 (06:35):
Okay.
So the essence of mindfulness,probably not news to you, is to
just be present for your life.
I teach workshops in lots ofdifferent places and down at
Esselin for many years, and thethe name of the workshop is
being present for your life.
Why not?
You're you you might as well notmiss it while it's here, but it
(06:57):
takes practice to to be present.
And so it's simply knowingwhat's happening without adding
on your judgments about whatyou'd like to happen or or
change, but just seeing yourpresent experience opening to it
with kindness, with interest,and with ease, relaxation.
(07:22):
And so we start with just thebasic experience of knowing that
you're sitting here andbreathing.
For some people, breathing thebreath isn't the the home base
that works best for them.
Some people, whether it'sbecause of past experience or
difficulties in breathing ortrauma or other things, for some
(07:45):
people, an alternative might bebetter, whether it's just
knowing that you're sitting hereor feeling sensations as they
move through your body.
So please use that as analternative if you'd like.
I'll just give the basicinstructions with the breath as
your home base, but it's notjust about being a good breath
(08:06):
watcher.
I remember many years ago whenone teacher said, if it's just
about watching your breath well,she called that kind of a funny
name, a transcendental lobotomy.
Oh, yes, I'm a good breathwatcher, but it's about using
the breath as a way to sharpen,to come into the moment and be
(08:28):
present and collecting,composing your attention on
whatever the home base is as away to sharpen your awareness.
But then the idea is to apply itto any aspect of your experience
in the sitting meditation,whether it's hearing a sound and
(08:49):
knowing you're hearing, orfeeling a sensation and knowing
that's happening, or being withan emotion that arises, and
really being there, whether it'spleasant or unpleasant, to know
what's happening, and withthoughts as well, that they too
are part of experience, exceptit's a whole lot trickier to
(09:09):
know that you're thinkingwithout getting caught up in the
content of the thought.
So it's one thing to know, oh,thinking is happening, and it's
another to be lost in the storyof your high school prom or what
are you going to do with yourlife or whatever is going on,
but to simply know, oh, thinkingis happening.
(09:29):
In a few moments when we do themeditation, the the key moment
besides being here on whateveris happening, the breath or
whatever is arising, I think Iconsider the key moment in the
practice the moment that yourealize you've been lost in
thought.
Because I say to people, if yourmind doesn't wander, please
(09:52):
speak to me afterwards.
I'm curious what's going on inthere.
But for most people, the mindwanders.
It's nothing to take personally,it's nothing to feel discouraged
about, thinking you're doingsomething wrong.
It's just exploring the natureof the mind.
And so when you realize that themind is wandered, the key is how
(10:14):
do you respond to that?
The common response that mostpeople have is some kind of
frustration.
Oh darn, there I am wondering.
Let's get back here and do thisright.
And you can feel in that thejudgment, the discouragement,
the frustration, the agitationof mind.
(10:35):
And what you're doing iscultivating judgment,
frustration, discouragement, andagitation with a little bit of
awareness thrown in.
Not the recommended response.
Another very common responsewhen you realize, oh, I've been
lost in thought, is having theresponse of, oh, but this is a
(10:55):
very interesting thought.
Let me just go with this for alittle while.
And when you've done that, it'slike you've bitten the bait and
you're gone.
If you're lucky just for a fewseconds, more commonly, likely
for minutes or however long.
So again, not recommended.
It takes some resolve to not gethooked by your thoughts, whether
(11:16):
they're pleasant or unpleasant,either way.
The recommended response, Ifeel, when you realize you've
been thinking, rather thanfrustration or discouragement,
to appreciate that you've justcome back into the present
moment.
That's what you're trying to do.
Oh, I'm here again.
Right.
And feel good about the factthat you just woke up and then
(11:39):
let the return be done withgreat kindness and patience and
simply the intention to starthere once again.
And if you can let that returnbe done in that way, you're
cultivating kindness andpatience and forgiveness and
presence, and you're not takingit personally, the fact that
(12:02):
your mind is wandered.
So the key is at that momentthat you realize you've been
lost to come back with thekindest attitude that you can
be.
A very simple and well, when youhave a puppy and you're trying
to train her or him, you don'twant you don't want them running
(12:23):
out into the street or jumpingon people.
You want them to stay.
Cats are a little bit morecooperative, though.
They don't jump around so much,they just sit around and purr
and wait to be pet headed.
But a frisky puppy, and so youput the puppy, if you've had a
puppy, I remember when I did itwith my dog, you you put you put
(12:44):
them on a paper or behind aline, let's just say on the
paper, you you put them on andyou say stay, right?
And then what happens?
Wanders off, and then you bringit back with love.
Okay, now stay, and then wandersoff again, you bring it back
each time with love.
You don't want to yell at it orbeat it from wandering off.
(13:05):
It doesn't know any better.
So you bring it back with a lotof love and say, okay, stay.
And after a while, it gets it.
In the same way, think of yourmind as this cute, frisky,
energetic puppy dog that doesn'tknow any better, that just needs
to be trained.
And when it's wandered off, youknow, oh, he really did say that
(13:27):
to me last week.
Okay, come on back.
Yeah, or when is this this COVIDreality gonna be over?
And or what's gonna happen lateron this year in the course of
our country, or whatever it is,or the human race, or what
happened when I was eight yearsold.
(13:49):
Come on, just bring it back.
And so if instead of thinkinglike monkey mind, that's often a
term that's used, oh monkeymind, it's kind of like a not a
very good relationship to havewith it.
You just are training the puppyto come back very lovingly each
time.
So keep that in mind as we haveour little meditation session.
(14:15):
That's it for so I'm gonna sitmy set my insight timer for 15
minutes, and I'll start with alittle bit of instructions
included in there, and inviteyou to find a posture you can be
(14:36):
reasonably comfortable andstill.
And this is a chance to simplyconnect with your internal
experience and with yourself andwith all of us at the same time.
So I invite you, if you'd like,to close your eyes gently.
(14:58):
If you prefer to have them open,that's that's okay.
You just might want to have themgently gazed downward, but
otherwise let yourself gentlyclose your eyes and first turn
your attention inward and knowthat you're alive.
SPEAKER_04 (15:18):
Even first coming to that reality and connect with
this body.
You might find a posture thatyou can be reasonably upright.
SPEAKER_03 (15:38):
I like the image that Tiknad Han gives of
thinking of yourself like amountain, strong, worthy of
respect, here for any changes inthe weather.
And at the same time, a sense ofease and receptivity.
So just notice if there's anyplaces of tension or holding and
(16:01):
invite them to relax.
You might take a quick scanthrough the body from head to
toe, the face, your back andshoulders and arms, your chest
and belly, your torso, downthrough your hips and pelvic
(16:26):
area, through your legs, upperand lower, down through your
feet and ankles, just invitingrelaxation.
SPEAKER_04 (16:41):
And down to feel a connection with the earth and
feel the earth underneath you,feel the earth support you.
It's here for you.
SPEAKER_03 (16:56):
And then you might take a few deeper breaths.
I like to do that at the startof a sitting, just some nice
deep breaths and breathing in acalming energy.
And as you breathe out, let go,relax, let go of anything that
(17:17):
you don't need.
SPEAKER_04 (17:19):
Any tension, any holding, just invite relaxation.
And then let the breath find itsown natural rhythm.
SPEAKER_03 (17:38):
And let the breath grieve you.
You don't need to make anythinghappen.
SPEAKER_04 (17:44):
It's been doing just fine your whole life.
SPEAKER_03 (17:55):
And then notice where you feel the breath most.
Apparently, you might feel yourwhole body expanding and
contracting as you sit here.
Or maybe as it enters thenostrils, or the belly, or the
chest rising and falling.
Just check out how do I know I'mbreathing right now.
(18:26):
And let that be the place thatyou rest your attention as your
home base.
So whenever the mind wanders,you know you can come back to
this place of connection andrefuge.
SPEAKER_04 (18:49):
Let the mind be open and relaxed.
You don't have to push anythingaway.
SPEAKER_03 (18:57):
Not like you have blinders and pouncing on the
breath like a bucking bronco.
Just let the mind be open andspacious, with the breath in the
foreground for now.
But if something else calls yourattention, whether it's a sound
(19:22):
or a sensation, just simply knowhearing is happening or feeling
pressure or vibration.
If an emotion arises, then letyourself open to that.
SPEAKER_04 (19:43):
Oh, here's calm, here's joy, here's sadness,
whatever it is, just let it behere and hold it, meet it with a
kind, loving awareness.
(20:04):
And returning back to the breathwhen it feels right to to
reconnect in that way.
SPEAKER_03 (20:15):
And remembering that whenever the mind wanders,
rather than judgment orfrustration, you bring it back
with kindness and love and beginagain.
(31:36):
Let yourself come out gently,mindfully staying connected to
yourself as we connect with eachother.
Thank you, James.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Would it be all right if I ask a question right
now?
SPEAKER_03 (31:50):
Sure.
Yeah.
And I also think it occurs to meif there's any questions about
the instructions as well oranything that might have come up
in the in the meditation, openit up while it's a little fresh.
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
Absolutely.
I do have a question about theguided meditation that you just
led.
Yeah.
Some mindfulness and meditationteachers will sort of front-end
the meditation with theinstructions and then do what
you did basically, where youthen invite that long pause
where there's no interjectedguides or reminders.
(32:27):
Some teachers will interspersedguidance throughout.
Some people will do sort of ahybrid.
Just wondering what yourthoughts on that are.
If there's a preference or aphilosophy, does it depend on
the situation?
But how do you whether tofront-end the meditation with
the instructions or interspersedthroughout?
SPEAKER_03 (32:48):
Well, it it's interesting you asked that
because I I debated withinmyself.
Usually I do have somereminders.
Once or twice, usually I mightsay, What's happening now?
Or sometimes towards the secondhalf of the meditation, I often
say, start the meditation rightnow.
(33:09):
And it kind of gets confusing.
People say, Well, what are youin their mind, maybe, well, what
have I been doing?
But then I say, start themeditation right now, let go of
everything that's happened upuntil this point, and let this
be the beginning.
And in a in a way, it's a kindof invitation to let go of the
past and come into each momentfresh.
(33:32):
So I often do that.
At the B if I'm saying teachinga retreat, the first day or two,
I do do that with a number ofreminders, you know, once or
twice, depending upon how long,usually twice in a in a longer
period.
But sometimes I'll just go forthe silence because I want
(33:53):
people to experience that too.
And it just so happened thattoday I was I was getting into
the silence and also wanted tomake sure that people could just
drop into that silence andexperience that.
So either way, and I usually dohave some some reminders.
(34:13):
But what's your preference?
SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
I think it depends on the context.
If I feel like the group is abit more well practiced, that's
sort of an intermediate oradvanced group, I might extend
the silence and maybe add a fewpoints of emphasis in the
beginning, but not a lot ofinstruction.
It also depends on the type ofmeditation.
(34:35):
If it's mindfulness ofbreathing, where it's relatively
straightforward or simple orcommon, then I will extend the
silence.
Most of my meditations thesedays are a mixture of practices
where we might start withgrounding, segue into
mindfulness of breathing, thengo into noticing more of the
(34:57):
emotional landscape in the body,like you know, areas of
unpleasantness or pleasantness.
And working with, you know, thatkind interest is the words you
you share.
And just sensing that physicallyfollowed by self-compassion, if
it's unpleasant.
And then usually then sharingthe simple sense of care with
(35:20):
others, sort of like a metapractice for other people in the
group, family, community, world,all beings, and then capped by
another grounding practice ofjust reorienting back in the
body for a minute or two andthen re-engaging very slowly and
softly.
So because that's a multifacetedpractice, it requires guidance
(35:45):
for those transitions.
So, but I think the reason whythat question popped up into my
head is because I really valuethose extended periods of
silence that I think are oftenoverlooked in guided
meditations.
We're kind of used to beingguided throughout, whether it's
five, ten, twenty minutes often.
(36:06):
And so I think that it's, youknow, it takes courage to offer
that amount of silence.
I think some teachers may fearjust keeping it for an extended
period of time because there maybe a comment that I'm not
offering it to.
Or what are people thinkingright now?
(36:26):
Like, are they lost in theirthought world?
Are they running into traumaticterritory or area of areas of
trauma?
So I think that extending thepause past what you may be
comfortable with can be usefulto try in any setting because
it's it's very rich anddelicious to be able to have
(36:50):
that space of just being,sensing into your own
experience.
And sometimes guidance can be adistraction for some people
every once in a while, but butthere is that level of depth
that you can access oftentimeswith that extended silence.
SPEAKER_03 (37:06):
So yeah, and if if it's a group of complete
beginners, I would I wouldcertainly give some reminders.
There's my wife, who's beenpracticing since before we met
in over 40 years as well, since1976.
She teaches a lot of MBSRclasses.
And we often have this thisdiscussion.
(37:30):
They're used to giving a lot ofreminders.
And and I'm always saying, youknow, let them have some silence
too.
That's that's a good thing.
And so that there was a part ofan inclination that here you are
all learning to teachmindfulness.
I wanted to just make sure youhad a sense of the silence.
(37:52):
So it was actually, in someways, a kind of confidence and
trust that you could handle thesilence.
And here's Marianna, who says, Ifound that beginners need more
guidance in shorter periods ofsilence, that people have some
experience.
What do you think of addingsilence in between guided
(38:12):
portions as opposed to the endfor beginners?
That might be a way totransition to more and more
periods of silence.
That way they might not feelabandoned at the end.
SPEAKER_07 (38:23):
Yes, hi.
I love the periods of silence.
I think that's where I get themost out of my meditations.
But I have found that withbeginners, either they're used
to doing guided meditations oryou know, they're not
comfortable being in silence fortoo long.
So I tend to shortly like, youknow, if it's the same person
(38:43):
I'm working with, I would I willgradually increase the period of
silence at the end.
But I was wondering for groups,I mean, I think it's always a
good idea to space the guidedportion out, even if you do have
a guided meditation so that youtake it, there's breaks in
between.
(39:03):
And I think that's more of a italso trains the person, I think,
gradually to feel be morecomfortable in silent.
So even when we do guidedmeditations, I think it's a
probably a good practice toleave a lot of space in between
our words or the portions of themeditation.
I don't know, just the thoughts.
SPEAKER_03 (39:25):
Yeah.
Well, I'm I'm I'm sorry, you'regonna say more?
No, I'm good.
SPEAKER_07 (39:28):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (39:29):
You know, I owe I say to people to really trust
your intuition and trust whatfeels right for you.
There's so many different waysto do it.
So rather than being concernedwith doing it the right way or
the wrong way, do it in a waythat for you feels most resonant
(39:50):
and and supportive, and then bewilling to hear feedback one way
or another.
That's another big part of beingin that role.
But uh just just trust your ownintuition.
It's one of the things, youknow, I do a lot of mentoring
and and supporting and andhelping people be share that
these practices and theseprinciples.
(40:10):
And one of my main intentionsand approaches is for people to
have enough confidence and trustthat they can listen to their
own experience and see, oh, thisis this is what I feel would be
most helpful at this point.
So I'd say carry on.
SPEAKER_01 (40:27):
Thank you.
James, you've been teaching fora long time and you have a rich
background as a practitioner.
I've seen you some photos of youback in India, I guess in the
70s, I want to say.
Yep.
You know, part of that wave ofWesterners who brought
mindfulness back to the UnitedStates.
(40:51):
And so obviously you immerseyourself in the teachings and in
the practice pretty early onintensively.
I'm curious about how youstarted transitioning into the
role of a teacher of mindfulnessand meditation, maybe what some
of those feelings you had were,maybe excitement, trepidation,
(41:16):
uh, generosity, fear.
What that transition was likeand what was supportive of you
as you were navigating thattransition into someone who was
sharing this with others backhere in the West.
SPEAKER_03 (41:31):
Okay.
Well, first I was introduced thepractice, it was in 1974.
I was 27 at the time.
And I I came to it.
I I read a book, if you're oldenough, or maybe you've heard of
the book, uh, even subsequentgenerations, the book Be Here
Now by Ram Das, which changed mylife.
(41:53):
And that that book spoke to meand seeing, oh my goodness,
there's a possibility here.
I'm not alone in my confusionand my separation.
And I and I went out to a placecalled Naropa Institute in those
days.
It's now Naropa University inBoulder, Colorado, in 1974, when
it was first the first summerthat it was there.
(42:16):
And Joseph Goldstein and JackHornfield were teaching.
They had just come back fromAsia.
And I spoke to Ramdas, my hero.
I had carried around Be Here Nowlike a Bible for three years,
and I got to speak to Ram Das,and among other things, I asked
him about meditation because Iwas doing, I had been doing TM,
(42:38):
transcendental meditation inthose days.
The Beatles did it, and Ifigured if it was good enough
for John Lennon, it was goodenough for me.
And I did TM for a few years,but there was something more
that I was looking for, and I Iso I asked Ramdas in that very
first interview when I first gotthere, I said, What about
meditation?
I've been doing TM.
(42:58):
What do you think?
And he said, Go check this guyGoldstein out.
He's pretty good.
And I went to Joseph's class inessential Buddhism.
And if you don't know JosephGoldstein, I highly recommend
you listen to his talks and hisbooks.
And after about 10 minutes, thefirst few minutes, I was kind of
judging the package.
(43:19):
This is the great meditationteacher.
He sounded like he was fromBrooklyn and I was from Queens,
and he didn't look so differentthan I did, and he didn't have
long flowing locks and look veryspiritual.
I thought, this is themeditation teacher?
I don't know.
And then after about 10 minutes,I really heard what he was
saying and where he was comingfrom.
(43:41):
Not just what he was saying, buthow he was.
And he was saying it waspossible to not be run by your
neurotic thoughts.
I had never entertained that asa possibility before.
But the way he said it, Ibelieved him.
And there was a part of me thatjust said, I'm going for it.
Because I had my own innerturmoil and suffering.
(44:04):
And I just dove in, hook line,and sinking into the practice.
And I did a lot of retreatsthose first few years, lots of
retreats, because it wassomething so compelling when I
went inside and I was startingto just starting a little by
little to make friends withmyself.
And I have a kind of teachinggene in me.
(44:28):
Or I don't know about teachinggene, but I love to turn people
on to stuff that I believe in.
And I was a school teacher.
I was a fifth grade and sixthgrade teacher in New York for a
number of years.
I started teaching in 1968.
And I'm I have the temperamentif I see a good movie or read a
good book, I can't keep my mouthshut about it.
(44:49):
You gotta check this out.
And here I was so moved by thepractice, I just wanted to share
it with everyone.
But in those first day, firstyears, what I did was just
wanting to get people to come tohear Joseph, who was my teacher.
And I organized a lot ofretreats when I moved out to
(45:11):
California from from New York in77.
And I I like to make thingshappen when I really believe it.
And so somehow I becameorganized the organizer of
Joseph and Jack's retreats.
Basically, so people could comeand I could, people could come
and hear Joseph give amind-blowing talk on concepts in
(45:36):
reality.
That was basically mymotivation.
I just wanted them to sit atJoseph's feet and practice and
blow their mind.
And but also I found that Istarted to really understand a
bit how not to believe yourthoughts.
And I, like I said, I can't keepmy mouth shut about something
(45:58):
when I when I find it helpful.
And out of gratitude, I wantedto, I I wanted to share, but
actually it wasn't until uh whenI moved out to California, I was
invited to teach a class by theperson who invited me out, who
had I shared a flat with.
(46:18):
He had gone to Naropa and he metme there.
And I was asked to teach a classin mindfulness meditation, a
10-week class at a place calledHolistic Life University, which
is no longer in existence.
And when he asked me, I wantedto ask my teachers, which is
always a good thing to do, toget the blessing of your
(46:39):
teachers.
And my two teachers, my two mainteachers in as far as the Dharma
spirituality in my life, werehave always been Joseph and
Ramdas, who I spent time with inNew York in a small scene
starting in 1975, and we got toknow each other.
And I said, What do you think,Joseph?
(47:01):
And Joseph gave me, he said,Yeah, he said, actually, better
him than better you than him,that you might as well teach it
as long as you're gonna be, aslong as it's gonna be offered,
why not you teach it?
It wasn't like you sing, yeah,go knock them their socks off.
He said, Yeah, good, let's seewhat see what happens.
And I said, Do you have anyadvice?
This might be useful for you,all of you.
(47:23):
I said, Do you have any advice?
He and he said, I would suggestyou keep in mind two things.
Yeah.
He said, one, don't be afraid tosay you don't know when you
don't know, if that made sense.
And two, don't be afraid to be amoron.
Those were his exact words.
He said he'd been perfectingthat for a while.
And what he was what he waspointing to was don't put
(47:47):
yourself up on a on a pedestalor wonder, oh, what what if they
what if they find out that I'm afraud?
Just be yourself and don't tryto impress, just come from
authentically loving this stuffand sharing what is there to
share.
And and and just be yourself.
(48:08):
Great, thank you.
Then I went to Ramdas and Isaid, What do you think?
Joseph said that he thought itwas it was a good idea.
And Ramdas said, go ahead and doit, teach the course, and at the
end, give them an experience ofintensive practice.
So he said, lead them in aweekend retreat.
(48:30):
I said, Really?
I should do that.
He says, Yeah, you've beenpracticing.
I had done a three-month retreatby then and a number of shorter
retreats.
So, and I knew something aboutpractice.
And he said, give them a tasteof real practice, not just, you
know, a daily practice.
And I said, Okay.
And so I started teachingweekend retreats.
(48:52):
And I taught lots of weekendretreats from like 78 through
82, like almost monthlyretreats.
One of the teachers, ShardaRogel at Spirit Rock.
She was the cook, uh, and and mywife, we were kind of a
traveling show.
No, we always always used to goup to Commonweal in Bolinas and
teach there.
(49:13):
And then in 1982, I taught myfirst retreat after my my wife
and I, she wasn't my wife then,sat a three-month retreat.
And then we went to Asia foranother time with Joseph and
Jack and a number of others.
And when I got there, Joseph,there were a few of us, and he
didn't realize that his teacher,Meninger G had organized a
(49:38):
retreat for him to teach.
And he didn't really want to,the last thing he wanted to do
was teach.
He'd been teaching nonstop forthe whole year.
And he just wanted to sit.
And he turned to me and he said,Okay, James, I was Jamie in
those days.
Okay, Jamie, here's your chance.
You gotta help me.
And he said, You teach theretreat.
(49:59):
We were in robes, by the way.
We did this little ceremonywhere we took robes for a couple
of weeks.
West Nisker and a few otherswere with us.
And he said, You teach theretreat, you do, I'll tell you
what, I'll give the talk thefirst three nights.
And then it was kind of like thevon Trapp family.
He said, you know, by the end,I'll just slip out and and you
(50:22):
and you can you can carry on.
And you, there were 60 peoplefor the retreat.
Sally Armstrong was on thatretreat.
It was one of her firstretreats.
She's a spirit rock teacher.
And Meninjuji, who was Joseph'steacher and a teacher of mine,
and Deepama, who is this greatyogi.
If I I recommend the life ofDeepama if you haven't read it,
(50:44):
they were my assistants.
They would do, they would helpout with the with the with
people who had personalquestions, but I'd see people
the whole retreat seeing a wholelot of people.
So that was when I started doingteaching retreats, and I started
teaching after that.
So now back to your questionabout the transition of being a
teacher.
I, although I I loved to shareout of gratitude, it's mainly
(51:08):
out of gratitude.
I just wanted to share what wasso helpful for me.
I also had lots of doubtingthoughts, actually, for the
first, really for the first 10or 12 years in my mind, there
was a part of me that wasapologizing, like, you know,
what if they find I'm just, it'sjust little Jamie from Queens,
New York.
But that was, that's part of thedeal.
(51:31):
Who am I to share these theseprofound teachings?
And then there are other timeswhere you, you know, you might
believe your press, and peoplesay, Oh, you've changed my life.
And you think, oh, wow, maybe,maybe I'm I'm pretty good.
And so part of the deal islearning with to deal with
negative identifications.
(51:52):
What who am I?
Or hey, I'm the coming of thenext Buddha here, you know, and
starting to identify in thatway, or being subject to the
projections of others.
Either, who do you think youare?
Or, oh my God, you've changed mylife.
And so dealing with projectionsis also a key to being in that
(52:17):
seat.
And that's something that I talka lot about in working with that
in your in teaching, teachtaking the teacher seat.
But after a while, little bylittle, as the practice deepens
and you see it's not about me,it's about life using me.
It's about being a channel forsomething profound, that more
(52:41):
and more you get out of the wayand realize that you can trust
that the Dharma or life knowshow to use you.
And and then the doubts startfalling away.
I must say one last thing.
When I'd be teaching, when I'dbe actually giving a talk, for
instance, it would be okay mostof the time.
(53:03):
I sometimes I'd be kind ofwatching myself give a thought
talk, which is which is kind ofa hell realm.
But mostly it would be okayduring the talk, but it would be
leading up to the talk and thenthe post-mortem afterwards.
Oh, how did I do?
Whatever.
But these days I kind of justtrust that I'm being useful.
(53:24):
And that comes with experience.
Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
I think a lot of people in this mastermind are
sharing mindfulness or want toshare mindfulness in secular
settings.
So some of us are coaches, someof us HR consultants or
professionals sharingmindfulness with teams in a say
a corporate setting.
(53:48):
Some are in healthcare oreducation, where words like
dharma and even spirituality arefrowned upon in those settings.
It's not safe to use thosewords, which is understandable.
And you know, mindfulness issort of embedded in spirituality
in a way where we're reallyconnected with energy and spirit
(54:13):
and fosters virtue, really.
The more we're mindful of ourexperience, the more we see the
harm that we may be doing toourselves and others, and the
more care we treat each moment,moment to moment, without or
with less and less judgment.
So I'm wondering if you have anythoughts or words for people
(54:35):
sharing mindfulness in secularsettings, what might be
overlooked or how to maybebridge that gap in a way of
communicating the power ofmindfulness across all aspects
of life in a secular settingwhere words like spirituality or
(54:56):
Buddhism or Dharma or religionmay be frowned upon.
SPEAKER_03 (55:00):
Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (55:01):
Important question, especially at this time.
SPEAKER_03 (55:04):
And it it's important to I I you know when I
said the word dharma before, Iwas assuming that you do use
have used words like that, or ordo you not?
SPEAKER_01 (55:13):
It depends on the context.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople know my background, and
I'm not here to prescribe anyreligion, I don't nor are you,
but but for those of you who maynot be familiar with that word
dharma, sometimes it'stranslated as truth or reality.
In other contexts, it may beconsidered like the Buddha's
teachings or truth of Buddhism.
(55:35):
I don't think of as a religionper se, but basically the nature
of reality could be considereddefinition of dharma.
SPEAKER_03 (55:43):
Okay, all right, good.
Good to know the label and whatyou've been sharing.
So words are very important,they can trigger people and
bring up resistance, and youwant to be able to connect in a
way that really resonatespeople.
In fact, the Buddha himself, asone of his last comments and
(56:05):
instructions, was go forth andspeak in the idiom of the
language of the people that youmeet, that you encounter.
And one other instruction likethat was when Jack Cornfield,
you probably all have heard ofJack Cornfield, when he was
leaving Thailand, he'd been amonk for about four years, and
he'd a Buddhist monk, and he'dspoke, and he asked his teacher,
(56:29):
Ajahn Cha, a great master, foradvice.
He said, You know, I think I'mgonna go back to the States and
I wanna I wanna share thisstuff.
It's been so powerful and foundto me, and I think I'm gonna
teach.
And do you have any advice?
And Ajahn Cha said, Yeah,there's one thing I can think
of.
You might call it Christianity.
And it was a beautiful,beautiful teaching that it
(56:52):
doesn't matter what you call it,you want to be able to
communicate and have whoever ison the receiving end take in.
And in these teachings, it isthere's an open invitation, come
and see for yourself.
So you're not trying tocommunicate any dogma.
However, there are someprinciples that when people
(57:15):
check out for themselves aretransforming, transformative.
The power of mindfulness istransformative.
And I sometimes say, if theBuddha came, could somehow
reappear and say, you know, thatmindfulness stuff, I was just
kidding.
You know, it wouldn't matterbecause I know it works.
So you're talking from your ownexperience.
(57:38):
And then the question is how totranslate that into a way that's
that's going to affect and beheard and be meaningful for
others.
And at this time, this is theway I see this mindfulness
explosion that's happened overthe last 20 or 30 years.
We're in a time, a crucial timein the human evolution, the
(58:00):
human experiment.
We're at a crossroads here.
And as one friend puts it, weare in a race between fear and
consciousness.
And sometimes I think of it asbasically just fear or love.
And so mindfulness is a tool tobring about more consciousness.
And as teachers of mindfulness,I think of you all, or people
(58:25):
who are in a position to sharewith others as agents of
consciousness that can helpawaken that capacity and
potential in others who thenawaken to that possibility and
share and ripple out, whetherthey're teachers or just in
their being.
(59:14):
This is actually Ramdas when Ifirst was seeing about studying
him.
And I went to Joseph and I said,he says, I got to stop my
meditation.
And and and Joseph said, What ishe gonna do?
Tell you to not be aware?
So, you know, if somebody says,No, I don't want to be aware,
I'm sorry, well, then they'rethey're choosing to sleepwalk.
Okay, may you wake up in time,but you want to just put it in
(59:39):
words of just this is learningto be a more aware, kind,
loving, compassionate humanbeing.
Now, with some of the thingsthat are often left out in
secular mindfulness that I thinkare vital, vital, whether or not
you're going to a corporation orteaching in a school or
(01:00:01):
wherever, besides just learninghow to be present, there's some
underpinnings of supports forthis practice that if if they're
not communicated, it's justthere's a big piece that's
missing.
And that is the importance ofethics and kindness.
(01:00:22):
And if you're leaving out a lifeof integrity, then you're you're
you're selling it short.
Because mindfulness is aboutlearning to be honest and
truthful with your experience.
Oh, this is what's happeningright now.
Oh, I'm sad right now.
I'm frightened right now.
(01:00:42):
There's love right now.
And it's learning to tell thetruth to yourself so that more
and more you can embed.
Embody the truth and share itwith others.
And the truth is that if you'recausing harm unconsciously or
consciously in some way, it'sreally hard to settle and find
(01:01:05):
peace inside.
And so in order to find the toreduce stress, lots of people
want to take mindfulness as astress reduction.
If you want to reduce stress,you've got to minimize the harm
you're causing to yourself or toothers.
That it kind of aligns you withyour deepest values.
(01:01:26):
And you probably know people whoembody integrity.
There's something very safe andrelaxing about them.
They're a refuge and you cantrust them.
And if you're with somebodywho's not straight, a con
artist, a con man, somebodywho's just out for themselves,
(01:01:49):
even if they talk a good talkabout, yeah, it's important to
be aware, you're not going to betrusting them and there's going
to be something missing, even ifthey're, they say all the right
words about mindfulness.
And so just you know foryourself when somebody embodies
integrity and ethics, itinspires you and it makes you
(01:02:12):
want to live the best you can.
So in these teachings, integrityis a basis for inner peace.
It's a foundation for innerpeace.
Not that we're saints all thetime, but and when we blow it,
we have to we keep on learningfrom it, as one of my teachers
(01:02:33):
says, as long as you'relearning, there are no mistakes.
But if you want to be moreconscious and more aware, then
you're you're in the game tokeep on growing and being aware.
So that's one thing.
And the one other thing that Ican think of that's sometimes
left out of secular mindfulnessis that it's more than just
feeling good and finding somesome ways to reduce your stress.
(01:02:57):
That it's actually possible, asI got a glimpse of that first
time I met Joseph Goldstein,it's actually possible to not be
run by your neurotic thoughts.
It's actually possible to uprootand wake up from confusion.
(01:03:18):
And it's actually possible tolessen living from greed or
hatred or confusion, and it'sactually possible to cultivate
more kindness, generosity, andwisdom and to really purify the
mind.
And it's all about rewiring yourbrain, your neural circuits.
(01:03:42):
If if if if somebody doesn'tkind of cringes at the word
spirituality, you can just lookat neuroscience.
And as it said, neurons thatfire together wire together.
And so you're kind of rewiringthe brain and the heart so that
you can start to act more inharmony with yourself and be an
(01:04:06):
inspiration for others.
So those two things, ethics andthe possibility of really
changing your mind in the mostbeautiful way to be more aligned
with all of the values that youhave.
And out of that, your love andyour compassion naturally shine
through.
That's the beautiful thing.
(01:04:27):
You don't have to work hard todo it, although, of course, it's
good to cultivate that.
But when your mind isn'tconfused, your natural way of
being, your love and yourcompassion and your light shines
through.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:41):
Thank you for sharing that, James.
I think all of us are herebecause we've experienced a
great deal of inner peace andinner freedom through this
practice.
And I think a lot of us aresharing mindfulness with similar
intentions out of gratitude andgenerosity and excitement about
how profound this practice canbe in our own personal lives.
(01:05:06):
We want to impact otherspersonally as well.
And as you said, we're in thisrace, sort of globally between
fear and consciousness or love.
And unlike any other time inhistory, the consequences of
that race are they can be direif if fear wins theirs.
(01:05:28):
So I I left the monastery aftertwo years because I was reading
Joanna Macy write about climatechange, and I I needed to do
everything I possibly could tosupport the planet, specifically
in regard to climate change.
And I thought, well, maybe theway I can help do that is to
(01:05:50):
share mindfulness and meditationwith people at scale.
And we have social inequity, wehave injustices left and right.
Take a look at our politicalclimate, especially in the
United States.
Um so with these larger socialissues, with climate change,
other forms of suffering andtrauma, how do you think
(01:06:13):
mindfulness can make society asa whole?
How can mindfulness make adifference to society as a
whole?
And how can we, as mindfulnessteachers, support that sea
change, support that race oflove and consciousness on these
larger issues outside of just,you know, inner peace?
SPEAKER_03 (01:06:36):
Yeah.
Glad you asked the question.
It's it's one of the mainmotivations I have for teaching.
As you said, it in introducingme, I'm I'm uh one of the
advisors for One Earth Sangha,which I highly recommend you
check out, which is DharmaResponse to Climate Change.
Sangha is S-A-N-G-H-A.
(01:06:58):
You just go to oneearthsangha.org.
And for me, this is more thanjust it's more than just finding
inner peace for yourself.
That would be a very limitedview of of what this practice is
about.
And as I said, consciousness iswhat's going to change this
world.
(01:07:19):
And never before, never beforehas there been as much capacity
for humans to destroy our veryexistence and and life on this
planet.
The planet will keep onsurviving, whether we do or not.
But we're we're going right neara cliff.
But at the same time, neverbefore has there been as much
(01:07:42):
consciousness.
Never.
Never before has there been asmuch exposure to mindfulness
practices, to compassion.
What was it?
The book that Paul Hawken wrotea book called Blessed Unrest a
number of years ago, where he hewas on a research project to see
(01:08:02):
how much good there is in theworld.
And he he discovered there arebetween, at that point, this is
many years ago, between one andtwo million people, two million
groups doing compassionate workon this planet.
So there's there's this quiteextraordinary opportunity here
that we're in to make adifference and be part of the
(01:08:26):
solution.
But mindfulness alone, innerpeace is not enough.
But it's not like you're goingto be proselytizing.
I remember when I first turnedon, got turned on to
mindfulness, to the practice.
I was so excited that I was, itwas like I would, I would run
down the streets and saying tomy friends, you just have to be
(01:08:47):
mindful.
You just have to be mindful.
And they kind of like, you know,slunk away from me, like, all
right, give me a break, youknow, because I can get very
enthusiastic about things.
And it took me a while to give abit softer sell and realize that
the more I could embody it, themore people would sometimes say,
Well, what are you into anyway?
(01:09:08):
I was a school teacher, and whenI first first started getting
introduced to the for thepractice, one of the first times
I came back, this is after Icame back after 1974, I'd been
teaching for about five or sixyears.
And I came back the first time Icame back, I used to have a
really good desk slam, like,come on, everybody, be quiet,
which would work for about 30seconds or so.
(01:09:31):
Kids liked being in my class.
I was cool, I had long hair andbeard, and I was like a hippie
in a very conservativeneighborhood in New York.
It's like, oh, we're in Mr.
Barris' class.
But the first time I came backafter being, after getting into
the meditation, the first timewas a very, very it got noisy as
classes do, and I just decidedI'd go quiet inside.
(01:09:52):
And I'd get quiet within myself,even though the whole class
might have been in pandemonium.
And inside of about 20 seconds,people would be saying, Look at
Mr.
Barris, what's he doing?
And I just keep on getting, Ijust needed to get quiet for
myself.
And lo and behold, after about aminute, there was this complete
(01:10:12):
hush in the class.
And then finally I opened up myeyes and they said, What were
you doing?
And I said, I just needed to bequiet.
Well, what were you doing?
And it turned out they had tobeg me to teach them what I was
doing.
That was then I knew that I hadfound the answer, not the hard
sell, just embody it.
(01:10:34):
And we I teach them a littleeach week, and I'd and I just
leave it there and say, no, nomore.
No.
Well, in the same way, you don'twant to proselytize and bang
over the head people saying, youjust have to be mindful.
But rather, the more you embodyit, the more it is, it touches
(01:10:55):
people.
There are some principles aroundthese teachings that I think can
make a huge difference inshifting the consciousness of
this planet.
One, as you start payingattention, you start seeing that
you're not separate fromeveryone else.
We're all in this together.
And there's an understandinglittle by little, I don't know
(01:11:18):
if if you've gotten into this,Sean, or you know, maybe you
intend to, about understandingthe interconnectedness of it
all.
As John Muir said, somethinglike, you know, once once you
see, once you take, try to takesomething out of the universe,
you see it every, it's hitchedto everything else.
So to really understand how whatwe do makes a difference, not
(01:11:42):
just to us, but to everyone inthis world.
And this reality that we're inright now is pointing that out
in a way that no that we'venever seen it before.
We'd better figure out how to beon the same page in this, or
it'll just keep on.
This virus is teaching us.
There's a beautiful, powerfulvideo.
(01:12:05):
I'll I'll share you the linklater on called A Letter from
the Virus.
Anyone has seen that?
Very powerful in Italian, andit's with subtitles, and it's
it's the virus speaking as anally coming to wake us up.
Then there's another video, TheGreat Realization.
Anybody see that one where thefather is reading the kid's book
(01:12:28):
to the child, looking back at2020 when people used to used to
do strange things on thisplanet.
So there, this is a wake-up callto see.
We're all in this together.
A couple of other principles atthe heart of these teachings,
actions have consequences.
What Jesus taught, what goesaround comes around.
(01:12:50):
Or, no, as ye sow, so shall yeread.
Colloquially, what goes aroundcomes around.
Or the law of karma, actionshave consequences.
Another principle, like we weresaying before about integrity,
that living with integrity feelsgood and is the way to honor all
life.
Another principle isstewardship, how good it feels
(01:13:15):
to express our caring andcompassion.
And one other principle is wecan change.
Change is possible.
If you have the intention, ifyou think, if your intention to
change is greater than yourintention to stay the same,
you'll change.
So all of those are underlyingprinciples that can shift
consciousness, that mindfulnessis a kind of gateway to
(01:13:40):
understanding.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13:41):
Great reflections, James.
That last point you said, Ithink it was your last point
where when people want tochange, when the suffering is
greater to stay the same, orsorry, the suff yeah, the
suffering is greater when youstay the same versus if you
change.
And people kind of realize thatto spark their process of waking
(01:14:03):
up and bringing mindfulness totheir experience and softening
their judgment and really tuninginto what's actually happening
moment to moment without thatfilter of story and judgment.
(01:14:32):
Sometimes we'll rationalize oursuffering or or feed the, you
know, I know you s you teach alot about joy.
And so, you know, maybe you canalso create leverage that way by
inviting people to experience agreater sense of freedom and and
joy and gratitude.
So I'm wondering if there'sanything you do in your
(01:14:52):
teachings to help create thatleverage point to either remind
people of the suffering of notbeing mindful or the joy of
being mindful.
There's any process orinvitation or even meditation on
that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:15:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe I can lead you somethingin something right now.
Yeah, I teach this course,Awakening Joy, the which you're
welcome to check out and just goto awakeningjoy or
awakeningjoy.info.
And I wrote a book by that titlebecause I got very serious about
my practice, as I sometimes say,dead serious, and I lost my joy
for a while.
(01:15:28):
So I I have these 10 differentstates that that can be
cultivated that lead towardsgreater well-being.
And the first is intention.
It all starts with intention.
If you can have a vision ofsomething of a possibility, like
you had a vision to learn andabout teaching mindfulness from
(01:15:51):
Sean.
If you once you have a vision,then you are inspired to go in
that direction.
And one of my inspiringteachings that that that
motivated me for many years,even before I got into no, it
was after I got into meditation,was from this guy Napoleon Hill,
who wrote a book by the strangetitle of Think and Grow Rich,
(01:16:13):
but it's a really good book.
And the the essence of histeaching is what the mind can
conceive and believe it canachieve.
So it starts with conceiving ofthe possibility, having a
vision, and then believing thatit's possible and doing whatever
(01:16:33):
you can to make that happen.
So the key piece in this wholeprocess is being inspired to
create something.
Like I was inspired when I firstheard Joseph, as I said at the
very beginning.
I'm going for it.
That was the key moment in thewhole process.
And probably you've had thosemoments in your life many times.
(01:16:56):
But we can, I can take youthrough a little practice right
now to get in touch with yourintention that inspires you.
So I invite you, if you like,close your eyes for a moment.
SPEAKER_04 (01:17:09):
So here you are learning to be a mindfulness
teacher.
SPEAKER_03 (01:17:20):
And just imagine learning not only for yourself
but for others so that you canreally contribute.
Just imagine learning more andmore to find that center within
(01:17:42):
yourself to learn to reallyaccess all the love and
compassion and wisdom insidethat's there waiting to be
shared.
(01:18:05):
And just imagine as your ownpractice deepens, how good it
will feel to share with othersand help them awaken in the same
way that you have.
(01:18:41):
Continuing to deepen and matureso that others can benefit from
what you have to share.
SPEAKER_04 (01:18:54):
Just get a sense of what that would feel like and
look like seems like aworthwhile project.
(01:19:38):
Get in touch with your ownheartfelt decision to really go
for it.
SPEAKER_03 (01:19:53):
No matter what doubts might come into your
mind, oh, who am I?
What if I don't do it well?
Let go of that and to reallyjust go for it and do your part
and let life support you.
SPEAKER_04 (01:20:13):
No report card, no timetable.
You're just facing in thatdirection.
Because this is the vision thatreally inspires you.
Just decide to really go for itright now.
(01:20:43):
And if you were to put in a fewwords for yourself, your
inspiring manner or slogan.
SPEAKER_03 (01:20:57):
Whether it's like I said, I'm going for it, or may I
really be of service?
May I bring out as much love andwisdom as I can.
SPEAKER_04 (01:21:08):
You find the words that work for you.
So when there's doubts thatarise, I get in the way.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22:40):
So if anything comes out of our time here together,
let's just take some time tohear from you.
Yeah.
Gabrielle, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (01:22:51):
Hi, um Gabrielle.
I'm from Melbourne, so I'm sorryabout being a bit late at 6.30
or nearly seven in the morning.
So but I got here, which wasawesome.
So that last visualization wasbeautiful, thank you.
And I guess my question is, I'vebeen, I have a lot of different
practices, and I was quiteheartened to see that your
practice was really leading to aspiritual experience or leading
(01:23:14):
to a part of a heightened, moreconnected part of self is how I
experienced it.
And I've been wondering aboutmindfulness and how much I can
push that and where I'm leaningtowards using it is in spiritual
experiences in a heightenedstate to take people in a
kindness, curious space withinplaces that have great power.
(01:23:36):
And I'm just again heartened tosee that you've doing that,
which is lovely.
And the people that I want towork with, either autistic or
autism carers, there's a lot oftrauma, a lot of stress ongoing.
Have you worked with thatpopulation in any way or with
people who have had a lot ofongoing stress that really isn't
(01:23:58):
going to go away, but the waythey perceive it and experience,
I think, is the opportunity tomake the biggest change for
themselves.
SPEAKER_03 (01:24:06):
Beautiful.
Thank you for wanting to do thatwork.
It's so important.
I haven't worked specificallywith that population.
However, there are a few thingsthat do come to mind.
One is that two differentteachers have experience with
that population that you mightcheck out.
One is Will Cabotzin, who is theson of John Cabotzin.
(01:24:29):
You probably have heard of JohnCabotzin.
Will Cabotzin.
His wife is an expert withworking with autism.
And he and she have offeredteachings, and I would imagine
there are some online, aroundworking with that population,
particularly in supportingparents and caregivers so that
(01:24:52):
they don't stress out.
So it's specifically aboutbringing mindfulness to people
who work with that population.
So you might check out, I'm surehe has a website and full of
teachings as well.
His wife's name is Teresa, butWill Cabot's in, and so they
probably have things writtenabout it.
(01:25:13):
There's another teacher, KateMunding, who M-U-N-D-I-N-G, who
teaches stuff online.
She's a spirit rock teacher.
They're both spirit rockteachers.
And she has a child who is onthe spectrum, and she's been
learning a lot.
And she also teaches how tobring mindfulness and education.
(01:25:35):
So I would imagine she'd havesomething to say and some leads
about that.
And then as well, Melbourne, youuh do you have any connection to
Melbourne Insight?
No, I don't.
So there's there's a a a goodcommunity in Melbourne.
I've gone there a few times.
I love Melbourne.
It's one of my favorite places.
(01:25:57):
And Melbourne Insight, they meeton, I think it's Monday nights,
and there's another one thatmeets on well, Wednesday nights.
Although these days, oh no,you're just opening up,
actually.
Who knows how long it'll bebecause I'm in touch with people
from Melbourne all the time.
SPEAKER_05 (01:26:12):
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:26:14):
So check out Melbourne Insight and be around
like-minded friends that you canyou can sit with as well.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:26:21):
No, that's magic.
Thank you so much.
And thank you for being heretoday.
SPEAKER_03 (01:26:24):
And Sean, thank you.
Good to meet you.
Glad you can join.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26:28):
Lovely.
James, remember you often willend the workshop or a class by
uh singing Here Comes the Sun.
I think that's George Harrison.
SPEAKER_03 (01:26:40):
How about the the actual one when you want me to
lead a song?
I can pull up my guitar if youwant.
Oh, that'd be great.
Okay.
That's all actually the the theperfect mindfulness song is I
Can See Clearly Now.
All right.
So sing with me.
Will you please do that?
SPEAKER_01 (01:26:56):
And do you want us on mute or not?
SPEAKER_03 (01:26:58):
It was either between that and listen this
little light of mine is anotherof my favorites.
But since I said I can seeclearly now, but you can, I
think if you keep on singingthis little light of mine, that
can be as your ongoinginstructions.
And when I sing I can seeclearly now, you know, it might
seem like a sappy kind of athing.
It's not like, oh, it's going tobe bright sunshiny days.
(01:27:21):
There's a lot of days that areahead that will be that will be
challenging and dark as well.
But if we keep facing towardsthe light, that's what will
bring out.
So say it's going to be brightsunshiny days.
Just keep on turning towards thelight.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (01:30:50):
Bright sunshiny day.
It's gonna be bright.
SPEAKER_03 (01:31:04):
So last last thing I I was saying, and I gotta go,
but don't forget about there'ssorrow in this world that we
have to work with and deal with,and there's beauty and goodness
in this world.
And the more you notice and lookfor the good inside and outside,
(01:31:24):
the more you bring it out.
And so let your light shine andsee all the good around you and
help bring it out because that'swhat's going to heal this world.
And you're all agents ofconsciousness in that regard.
And so happy that we could spendsome time together and support
you in that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31:42):
James, thank you so much for teachings and your
generosity today.
We can't thank you enough.
On behalf of everyone, thankyou.
SPEAKER_03 (01:31:53):
And may our coming here together be for the benefit
of the whole world, of everyonein our life, and may it ripple
out and keep spreading goodness.
So great to be with you andthank you, Sean, and thank you
for what you're doing.
Welcome everybody.
Hope everyone's well.
Today I'm I'm honored to welcomeuh James Barris here, who's
joining us from North Berkeley,California, which happens to be
just a few streets away fromwhere I live too.
James is one of my favoritemindfulness meditation teachers
on the planet.
(01:11):
He brings a smile to my faceevery time I think of him.
But uh James has been around theblock as a teacher of
mindfulness and meditation.
He has been a teacher ofmeditation since 1978, which is
almost as long as I've beenalive.
He's a creator and a teacher ofthe Awakening Joy course, which
(01:32):
has been around for about morethan 15 years.
The Awakening Joy course, youcan take it online and as well
as in person if you're inNorthern California.
But he leads retreats andworkshops and classes all around
the world.
He's a co-founder of Spirit RockMeditation Center, which many of
you are very familiar with.
(01:55):
But uh James is a co-founder ofit along with Jack Cornfield and
others.
He wrote the book calledAwakening Joy.
He's a guiding teacher for OneEarth Sangha, which is a website
and a community devoted toexpressing a mindful Buddhist
response to climate change.
And he's just a very greatteacher who I highly recommend.
(02:20):
So I remember my first timelistening to James.
I was a monastic at a monastery,and I was walking what's called
a loop trail at a Bayagirimonastery, listening to various
Dharma talks that I woulddownload online.
(02:41):
And I just found this randomtalk from James one day.
But I just remember vividlywalking around this trail,
listening to a talk from James.
And I just remember thinkinglike he just sounds like such a
kind man, and there was just somuch of like a personal
connection there that I felt youcould tell that there was a lot
(03:03):
of depth.
Almost kind of had this to me,it sounded like yeah, like a
father or grandfather figure,someone who had deep
perspective, deep care, nojudgment, but a lot of wisdom.
And it never occurred to me thatI might meet be able to meet him
one day, and I'm very glad thatI did, and just feel very uh
(03:24):
connected to James on a fewdifferent levels.
But my wife and I had the honorof him uh presiding over our
wedding a few years ago, whichis you know one of the best days
of my life, and so I wanted tothank you again, James, for
facilitating that.
But so it's a deep honor towelcome James Bear.
(03:46):
He's one of my first excited tointroduce him to those of you
who haven't been exposed to himyet.
And so without further ado, I'dlike to welcome you, James, to
Mastermind.
SPEAKER_03 (03:58):
Thanks, Sean.
Lovely to be here with you andeveryone on the call.
Maybe I'll just reciprocate orrespond and just say I'm a big
Sean Fargo fan.
He's a good guy.
That for me, that's that'sprobably as important as
anything else.
He's somebody that I respect,trust, have great affection for,
(04:19):
and really inspired by what he'soffering to others, really just
wanting to help theconsciousness movement grow with
high integrity and a generousheart.
And I remember Sean when he wasat Spirit Rock in the when we
still had the trailers and andhe was in the front office
(04:42):
answering phone calls and beingthere for people.
And I thought, oh, what a greatgatekeeper we have.
Because the person who answersthe phone calls and coordinates
events, helps coordinate and andwelcome people there, is
probably one of the mostimportant people in my mind
because he's there who peopleinterface with.
(05:05):
And so it's just a realpleasure.
And as he said, I officiated hiswedding and Casey.
And I love doing weddings, it'sjust a celebration of love.
And so, in general, it's a it'sa joy, but it was a particularly
very beautiful occasion that Icould uh impart my love and and
blessing to your marriage.
(05:26):
So and it's great to be herewith everyone, with you and
everyone.
Let's explore consciousness,mindfulness, and sharing this
with others.
So looking to have have a goodtime, as I said to Sean just a
moment before we we started.
Looking, I I think this is gonnabe fun, hopefully helpful,
useful, but just let's make itan enjoyable experience for all.
(05:51):
So that's my intention.
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
Thank you, James.
Really appreciate that.
Would you like to start by uhleading us in a guided
meditation?
SPEAKER_03 (05:59):
Yeah, sure.
And since you are becomingteachers of mindfulness, I
thought that maybe I'd offer youthe way I share mindfulness
instructions and we can sittogether.
So whatever is useful for you, Iknow you're probably many of you
have a strong mindfulnesspractice, but I'll share as if
(06:21):
we're all doing it together forwhether or not the first time,
just as reminders, and we cansit for what would you say, 10,
15 minutes, or how long wouldyou say, Sean?
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
Yeah, that sounds that sounds good.
SPEAKER_03 (06:35):
Okay.
So the essence of mindfulness,probably not news to you, is to
just be present for your life.
I teach workshops in lots ofdifferent places and down at
Esselin for many years, and thethe name of the workshop is
being present for your life.
Why not?
You're you you might as well notmiss it while it's here, but it
(06:57):
takes practice to to be present.
And so it's simply knowingwhat's happening without adding
on your judgments about whatyou'd like to happen or or
change, but just seeing yourpresent experience opening to it
with kindness, with interest,and with ease, relaxation.
(07:22):
And so we start with just thebasic experience of knowing that
you're sitting here andbreathing.
For some people, breathing thebreath isn't the the home base
that works best for them.
Some people, whether it'sbecause of past experience or
difficulties in breathing ortrauma or other things, for some
(07:45):
people, an alternative might bebetter, whether it's just
knowing that you're sitting hereor feeling sensations as they
move through your body.
So please use that as analternative if you'd like.
I'll just give the basicinstructions with the breath as
your home base, but it's notjust about being a good breath
(08:06):
watcher.
I remember many years ago whenone teacher said, if it's just
about watching your breath well,she called that kind of a funny
name, a transcendental lobotomy.
Oh, yes, I'm a good breathwatcher, but it's about using
the breath as a way to sharpen,to come into the moment and be
(08:28):
present and collecting,composing your attention on
whatever the home base is as away to sharpen your awareness.
But then the idea is to apply itto any aspect of your experience
in the sitting meditation,whether it's hearing a sound and
(08:49):
knowing you're hearing, orfeeling a sensation and knowing
that's happening, or being withan emotion that arises, and
really being there, whether it'spleasant or unpleasant, to know
what's happening, and withthoughts as well, that they too
are part of experience, exceptit's a whole lot trickier to
(09:09):
know that you're thinkingwithout getting caught up in the
content of the thought.
So it's one thing to know, oh,thinking is happening, and it's
another to be lost in the storyof your high school prom or what
are you going to do with yourlife or whatever is going on,
but to simply know, oh, thinkingis happening.
(09:29):
In a few moments when we do themeditation, the the key moment
besides being here on whateveris happening, the breath or
whatever is arising, I think Iconsider the key moment in the
practice the moment that yourealize you've been lost in
thought.
Because I say to people, if yourmind doesn't wander, please
(09:52):
speak to me afterwards.
I'm curious what's going on inthere.
But for most people, the mindwanders.
It's nothing to take personally,it's nothing to feel discouraged
about, thinking you're doingsomething wrong.
It's just exploring the natureof the mind.
And so when you realize that themind is wandered, the key is how
(10:14):
do you respond to that?
The common response that mostpeople have is some kind of
frustration.
Oh darn, there I am wondering.
Let's get back here and do thisright.
And you can feel in that thejudgment, the discouragement,
the frustration, the agitationof mind.
(10:35):
And what you're doing iscultivating judgment,
frustration, discouragement, andagitation with a little bit of
awareness thrown in.
Not the recommended response.
Another very common responsewhen you realize, oh, I've been
lost in thought, is having theresponse of, oh, but this is a
(10:55):
very interesting thought.
Let me just go with this for alittle while.
And when you've done that, it'slike you've bitten the bait and
you're gone.
If you're lucky just for a fewseconds, more commonly, likely
for minutes or however long.
So again, not recommended.
It takes some resolve to not gethooked by your thoughts, whether
(11:16):
they're pleasant or unpleasant,either way.
The recommended response, Ifeel, when you realize you've
been thinking, rather thanfrustration or discouragement,
to appreciate that you've justcome back into the present
moment.
That's what you're trying to do.
Oh, I'm here again.
Right.
And feel good about the factthat you just woke up and then
(11:39):
let the return be done withgreat kindness and patience and
simply the intention to starthere once again.
And if you can let that returnbe done in that way, you're
cultivating kindness andpatience and forgiveness and
presence, and you're not takingit personally, the fact that
(12:02):
your mind is wandered.
So the key is at that momentthat you realize you've been
lost to come back with thekindest attitude that you can
be.
A very simple and well, when youhave a puppy and you're trying
to train her or him, you don'twant you don't want them running
(12:23):
out into the street or jumpingon people.
You want them to stay.
Cats are a little bit morecooperative, though.
They don't jump around so much,they just sit around and purr
and wait to be pet headed.
But a frisky puppy, and so youput the puppy, if you've had a
puppy, I remember when I did itwith my dog, you you put you put
(12:44):
them on a paper or behind aline, let's just say on the
paper, you you put them on andyou say stay, right?
And then what happens?
Wanders off, and then you bringit back with love.
Okay, now stay, and then wandersoff again, you bring it back
each time with love.
You don't want to yell at it orbeat it from wandering off.
(13:05):
It doesn't know any better.
So you bring it back with a lotof love and say, okay, stay.
And after a while, it gets it.
In the same way, think of yourmind as this cute, frisky,
energetic puppy dog that doesn'tknow any better, that just needs
to be trained.
And when it's wandered off, youknow, oh, he really did say that
(13:27):
to me last week.
Okay, come on back.
Yeah, or when is this this COVIDreality gonna be over?
And or what's gonna happen lateron this year in the course of
our country, or whatever it is,or the human race, or what
happened when I was eight yearsold.
(13:49):
Come on, just bring it back.
And so if instead of thinkinglike monkey mind, that's often a
term that's used, oh monkeymind, it's kind of like a not a
very good relationship to havewith it.
You just are training the puppyto come back very lovingly each
time.
So keep that in mind as we haveour little meditation session.
(14:15):
That's it for so I'm gonna sitmy set my insight timer for 15
minutes, and I'll start with alittle bit of instructions
included in there, and inviteyou to find a posture you can be
(14:36):
reasonably comfortable andstill.
And this is a chance to simplyconnect with your internal
experience and with yourself andwith all of us at the same time.
So I invite you, if you'd like,to close your eyes gently.
(14:58):
If you prefer to have them open,that's that's okay.
You just might want to have themgently gazed downward, but
otherwise let yourself gentlyclose your eyes and first turn
your attention inward and knowthat you're alive.
SPEAKER_04 (15:18):
Even first coming to that reality and connect with
this body.
You might find a posture thatyou can be reasonably upright.
SPEAKER_03 (15:38):
I like the image that Tiknad Han gives of
thinking of yourself like amountain, strong, worthy of
respect, here for any changes inthe weather.
And at the same time, a sense ofease and receptivity.
So just notice if there's anyplaces of tension or holding and
(16:01):
invite them to relax.
You might take a quick scanthrough the body from head to
toe, the face, your back andshoulders and arms, your chest
and belly, your torso, downthrough your hips and pelvic
(16:26):
area, through your legs, upperand lower, down through your
feet and ankles, just invitingrelaxation.
SPEAKER_04 (16:41):
And down to feel a connection with the earth and
feel the earth underneath you,feel the earth support you.
It's here for you.
SPEAKER_03 (16:56):
And then you might take a few deeper breaths.
I like to do that at the startof a sitting, just some nice
deep breaths and breathing in acalming energy.
And as you breathe out, let go,relax, let go of anything that
(17:17):
you don't need.
SPEAKER_04 (17:19):
Any tension, any holding, just invite relaxation.
And then let the breath find itsown natural rhythm.
SPEAKER_03 (17:38):
And let the breath grieve you.
You don't need to make anythinghappen.
SPEAKER_04 (17:44):
It's been doing just fine your whole life.
SPEAKER_03 (17:55):
And then notice where you feel the breath most.
Apparently, you might feel yourwhole body expanding and
contracting as you sit here.
Or maybe as it enters thenostrils, or the belly, or the
chest rising and falling.
Just check out how do I know I'mbreathing right now.
(18:26):
And let that be the place thatyou rest your attention as your
home base.
So whenever the mind wanders,you know you can come back to
this place of connection andrefuge.
SPEAKER_04 (18:49):
Let the mind be open and relaxed.
You don't have to push anythingaway.
SPEAKER_03 (18:57):
Not like you have blinders and pouncing on the
breath like a bucking bronco.
Just let the mind be open andspacious, with the breath in the
foreground for now.
But if something else calls yourattention, whether it's a sound
(19:22):
or a sensation, just simply knowhearing is happening or feeling
pressure or vibration.
If an emotion arises, then letyourself open to that.
SPEAKER_04 (19:43):
Oh, here's calm, here's joy, here's sadness,
whatever it is, just let it behere and hold it, meet it with a
kind, loving awareness.
(20:04):
And returning back to the breathwhen it feels right to to
reconnect in that way.
SPEAKER_03 (20:15):
And remembering that whenever the mind wanders,
rather than judgment orfrustration, you bring it back
with kindness and love and beginagain.
(31:36):
Let yourself come out gently,mindfully staying connected to
yourself as we connect with eachother.
Thank you, James.
SPEAKER_01 (31:47):
Would it be all right if I ask a question right
now?
SPEAKER_03 (31:50):
Sure.
Yeah.
And I also think it occurs to meif there's any questions about
the instructions as well oranything that might have come up
in the in the meditation, openit up while it's a little fresh.
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
Absolutely.
I do have a question about theguided meditation that you just
led.
Yeah.
Some mindfulness and meditationteachers will sort of front-end
the meditation with theinstructions and then do what
you did basically, where youthen invite that long pause
where there's no interjectedguides or reminders.
(32:27):
Some teachers will interspersedguidance throughout.
Some people will do sort of ahybrid.
Just wondering what yourthoughts on that are.
If there's a preference or aphilosophy, does it depend on
the situation?
But how do you whether tofront-end the meditation with
the instructions or interspersedthroughout?
SPEAKER_03 (32:48):
Well, it it's interesting you asked that
because I I debated withinmyself.
Usually I do have somereminders.
Once or twice, usually I mightsay, What's happening now?
Or sometimes towards the secondhalf of the meditation, I often
say, start the meditation rightnow.
(33:09):
And it kind of gets confusing.
People say, Well, what are youin their mind, maybe, well, what
have I been doing?
But then I say, start themeditation right now, let go of
everything that's happened upuntil this point, and let this
be the beginning.
And in a in a way, it's a kindof invitation to let go of the
past and come into each momentfresh.
(33:32):
So I often do that.
At the B if I'm saying teachinga retreat, the first day or two,
I do do that with a number ofreminders, you know, once or
twice, depending upon how long,usually twice in a in a longer
period.
But sometimes I'll just go forthe silence because I want
(33:53):
people to experience that too.
And it just so happened thattoday I was I was getting into
the silence and also wanted tomake sure that people could just
drop into that silence andexperience that.
So either way, and I usually dohave some some reminders.
(34:13):
But what's your preference?
SPEAKER_01 (34:14):
I think it depends on the context.
If I feel like the group is abit more well practiced, that's
sort of an intermediate oradvanced group, I might extend
the silence and maybe add a fewpoints of emphasis in the
beginning, but not a lot ofinstruction.
It also depends on the type ofmeditation.
(34:35):
If it's mindfulness ofbreathing, where it's relatively
straightforward or simple orcommon, then I will extend the
silence.
Most of my meditations thesedays are a mixture of practices
where we might start withgrounding, segue into
mindfulness of breathing, thengo into noticing more of the
(34:57):
emotional landscape in the body,like you know, areas of
unpleasantness or pleasantness.
And working with, you know, thatkind interest is the words you
you share.
And just sensing that physicallyfollowed by self-compassion, if
it's unpleasant.
And then usually then sharingthe simple sense of care with
(35:20):
others, sort of like a metapractice for other people in the
group, family, community, world,all beings, and then capped by
another grounding practice ofjust reorienting back in the
body for a minute or two andthen re-engaging very slowly and
softly.
So because that's a multifacetedpractice, it requires guidance
(35:45):
for those transitions.
So, but I think the reason whythat question popped up into my
head is because I really valuethose extended periods of
silence that I think are oftenoverlooked in guided
meditations.
We're kind of used to beingguided throughout, whether it's
five, ten, twenty minutes often.
(36:06):
And so I think that it's, youknow, it takes courage to offer
that amount of silence.
I think some teachers may fearjust keeping it for an extended
period of time because there maybe a comment that I'm not
offering it to.
Or what are people thinkingright now?
(36:26):
Like, are they lost in theirthought world?
Are they running into traumaticterritory or area of areas of
trauma?
So I think that extending thepause past what you may be
comfortable with can be usefulto try in any setting because
it's it's very rich anddelicious to be able to have
(36:50):
that space of just being,sensing into your own
experience.
And sometimes guidance can be adistraction for some people
every once in a while, but butthere is that level of depth
that you can access oftentimeswith that extended silence.
SPEAKER_03 (37:06):
So yeah, and if if it's a group of complete
beginners, I would I wouldcertainly give some reminders.
There's my wife, who's beenpracticing since before we met
in over 40 years as well, since1976.
She teaches a lot of MBSRclasses.
And we often have this thisdiscussion.
(37:30):
They're used to giving a lot ofreminders.
And and I'm always saying, youknow, let them have some silence
too.
That's that's a good thing.
And so that there was a part ofan inclination that here you are
all learning to teachmindfulness.
I wanted to just make sure youhad a sense of the silence.
(37:52):
So it was actually, in someways, a kind of confidence and
trust that you could handle thesilence.
And here's Marianna, who says, Ifound that beginners need more
guidance in shorter periods ofsilence, that people have some
experience.
What do you think of addingsilence in between guided
(38:12):
portions as opposed to the endfor beginners?
That might be a way totransition to more and more
periods of silence.
That way they might not feelabandoned at the end.
SPEAKER_07 (38:23):
Yes, hi.
I love the periods of silence.
I think that's where I get themost out of my meditations.
But I have found that withbeginners, either they're used
to doing guided meditations oryou know, they're not
comfortable being in silence fortoo long.
So I tend to shortly like, youknow, if it's the same person
(38:43):
I'm working with, I would I willgradually increase the period of
silence at the end.
But I was wondering for groups,I mean, I think it's always a
good idea to space the guidedportion out, even if you do have
a guided meditation so that youtake it, there's breaks in
between.
(39:03):
And I think that's more of a italso trains the person, I think,
gradually to feel be morecomfortable in silent.
So even when we do guidedmeditations, I think it's a
probably a good practice toleave a lot of space in between
our words or the portions of themeditation.
I don't know, just the thoughts.
SPEAKER_03 (39:25):
Yeah.
Well, I'm I'm I'm sorry, you'regonna say more?
No, I'm good.
SPEAKER_07 (39:28):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (39:29):
You know, I owe I say to people to really trust
your intuition and trust whatfeels right for you.
There's so many different waysto do it.
So rather than being concernedwith doing it the right way or
the wrong way, do it in a waythat for you feels most resonant
(39:50):
and and supportive, and then bewilling to hear feedback one way
or another.
That's another big part of beingin that role.
But uh just just trust your ownintuition.
It's one of the things, youknow, I do a lot of mentoring
and and supporting and andhelping people be share that
these practices and theseprinciples.
(40:10):
And one of my main intentionsand approaches is for people to
have enough confidence and trustthat they can listen to their
own experience and see, oh, thisis this is what I feel would be
most helpful at this point.
So I'd say carry on.
SPEAKER_01 (40:27):
Thank you.
James, you've been teaching fora long time and you have a rich
background as a practitioner.
I've seen you some photos of youback in India, I guess in the
70s, I want to say.
Yep.
You know, part of that wave ofWesterners who brought
mindfulness back to the UnitedStates.
(40:51):
And so obviously you immerseyourself in the teachings and in
the practice pretty early onintensively.
I'm curious about how youstarted transitioning into the
role of a teacher of mindfulnessand meditation, maybe what some
of those feelings you had were,maybe excitement, trepidation,
(41:16):
uh, generosity, fear.
What that transition was likeand what was supportive of you
as you were navigating thattransition into someone who was
sharing this with others backhere in the West.
SPEAKER_03 (41:31):
Okay.
Well, first I was introduced thepractice, it was in 1974.
I was 27 at the time.
And I I came to it.
I I read a book, if you're oldenough, or maybe you've heard of
the book, uh, even subsequentgenerations, the book Be Here
Now by Ram Das, which changed mylife.
(41:53):
And that that book spoke to meand seeing, oh my goodness,
there's a possibility here.
I'm not alone in my confusionand my separation.
And I and I went out to a placecalled Naropa Institute in those
days.
It's now Naropa University inBoulder, Colorado, in 1974, when
it was first the first summerthat it was there.
(42:16):
And Joseph Goldstein and JackHornfield were teaching.
They had just come back fromAsia.
And I spoke to Ramdas, my hero.
I had carried around Be Here Nowlike a Bible for three years,
and I got to speak to Ram Das,and among other things, I asked
him about meditation because Iwas doing, I had been doing TM,
(42:38):
transcendental meditation inthose days.
The Beatles did it, and Ifigured if it was good enough
for John Lennon, it was goodenough for me.
And I did TM for a few years,but there was something more
that I was looking for, and I Iso I asked Ramdas in that very
first interview when I first gotthere, I said, What about
meditation?
I've been doing TM.
(42:58):
What do you think?
And he said, Go check this guyGoldstein out.
He's pretty good.
And I went to Joseph's class inessential Buddhism.
And if you don't know JosephGoldstein, I highly recommend
you listen to his talks and hisbooks.
And after about 10 minutes, thefirst few minutes, I was kind of
judging the package.
(43:19):
This is the great meditationteacher.
He sounded like he was fromBrooklyn and I was from Queens,
and he didn't look so differentthan I did, and he didn't have
long flowing locks and look veryspiritual.
I thought, this is themeditation teacher?
I don't know.
And then after about 10 minutes,I really heard what he was
saying and where he was comingfrom.
(43:41):
Not just what he was saying, buthow he was.
And he was saying it waspossible to not be run by your
neurotic thoughts.
I had never entertained that asa possibility before.
But the way he said it, Ibelieved him.
And there was a part of me thatjust said, I'm going for it.
Because I had my own innerturmoil and suffering.
(44:04):
And I just dove in, hook line,and sinking into the practice.
And I did a lot of retreatsthose first few years, lots of
retreats, because it wassomething so compelling when I
went inside and I was startingto just starting a little by
little to make friends withmyself.
And I have a kind of teachinggene in me.
(44:28):
Or I don't know about teachinggene, but I love to turn people
on to stuff that I believe in.
And I was a school teacher.
I was a fifth grade and sixthgrade teacher in New York for a
number of years.
I started teaching in 1968.
And I'm I have the temperamentif I see a good movie or read a
good book, I can't keep my mouthshut about it.
(44:49):
You gotta check this out.
And here I was so moved by thepractice, I just wanted to share
it with everyone.
But in those first day, firstyears, what I did was just
wanting to get people to come tohear Joseph, who was my teacher.
And I organized a lot ofretreats when I moved out to
(45:11):
California from from New York in77.
And I I like to make thingshappen when I really believe it.
And so somehow I becameorganized the organizer of
Joseph and Jack's retreats.
Basically, so people could comeand I could, people could come
and hear Joseph give amind-blowing talk on concepts in
(45:36):
reality.
That was basically mymotivation.
I just wanted them to sit atJoseph's feet and practice and
blow their mind.
And but also I found that Istarted to really understand a
bit how not to believe yourthoughts.
And I, like I said, I can't keepmy mouth shut about something
(45:58):
when I when I find it helpful.
And out of gratitude, I wantedto, I I wanted to share, but
actually it wasn't until uh whenI moved out to California, I was
invited to teach a class by theperson who invited me out, who
had I shared a flat with.
(46:18):
He had gone to Naropa and he metme there.
And I was asked to teach a classin mindfulness meditation, a
10-week class at a place calledHolistic Life University, which
is no longer in existence.
And when he asked me, I wantedto ask my teachers, which is
always a good thing to do, toget the blessing of your
(46:39):
teachers.
And my two teachers, my two mainteachers in as far as the Dharma
spirituality in my life, werehave always been Joseph and
Ramdas, who I spent time with inNew York in a small scene
starting in 1975, and we got toknow each other.
And I said, What do you think,Joseph?
(47:01):
And Joseph gave me, he said,Yeah, he said, actually, better
him than better you than him,that you might as well teach it
as long as you're gonna be, aslong as it's gonna be offered,
why not you teach it?
It wasn't like you sing, yeah,go knock them their socks off.
He said, Yeah, good, let's seewhat see what happens.
And I said, Do you have anyadvice?
This might be useful for you,all of you.
(47:23):
I said, Do you have any advice?
He and he said, I would suggestyou keep in mind two things.
Yeah.
He said, one, don't be afraid tosay you don't know when you
don't know, if that made sense.
And two, don't be afraid to be amoron.
Those were his exact words.
He said he'd been perfectingthat for a while.
And what he was what he waspointing to was don't put
(47:47):
yourself up on a on a pedestalor wonder, oh, what what if they
what if they find out that I'm afraud?
Just be yourself and don't tryto impress, just come from
authentically loving this stuffand sharing what is there to
share.
And and and just be yourself.
(48:08):
Great, thank you.
Then I went to Ramdas and Isaid, What do you think?
Joseph said that he thought itwas it was a good idea.
And Ramdas said, go ahead and doit, teach the course, and at the
end, give them an experience ofintensive practice.
So he said, lead them in aweekend retreat.
(48:30):
I said, Really?
I should do that.
He says, Yeah, you've beenpracticing.
I had done a three-month retreatby then and a number of shorter
retreats.
So, and I knew something aboutpractice.
And he said, give them a tasteof real practice, not just, you
know, a daily practice.
And I said, Okay.
And so I started teachingweekend retreats.
(48:52):
And I taught lots of weekendretreats from like 78 through
82, like almost monthlyretreats.
One of the teachers, ShardaRogel at Spirit Rock.
She was the cook, uh, and and mywife, we were kind of a
traveling show.
No, we always always used to goup to Commonweal in Bolinas and
teach there.
(49:13):
And then in 1982, I taught myfirst retreat after my my wife
and I, she wasn't my wife then,sat a three-month retreat.
And then we went to Asia foranother time with Joseph and
Jack and a number of others.
And when I got there, Joseph,there were a few of us, and he
didn't realize that his teacher,Meninger G had organized a
(49:38):
retreat for him to teach.
And he didn't really want to,the last thing he wanted to do
was teach.
He'd been teaching nonstop forthe whole year.
And he just wanted to sit.
And he turned to me and he said,Okay, James, I was Jamie in
those days.
Okay, Jamie, here's your chance.
You gotta help me.
And he said, You teach theretreat.
(49:59):
We were in robes, by the way.
We did this little ceremonywhere we took robes for a couple
of weeks.
West Nisker and a few otherswere with us.
And he said, You teach theretreat, you do, I'll tell you
what, I'll give the talk thefirst three nights.
And then it was kind of like thevon Trapp family.
He said, you know, by the end,I'll just slip out and and you
(50:22):
and you can you can carry on.
And you, there were 60 peoplefor the retreat.
Sally Armstrong was on thatretreat.
It was one of her firstretreats.
She's a spirit rock teacher.
And Meninjuji, who was Joseph'steacher and a teacher of mine,
and Deepama, who is this greatyogi.
If I I recommend the life ofDeepama if you haven't read it,
(50:44):
they were my assistants.
They would do, they would helpout with the with the with
people who had personalquestions, but I'd see people
the whole retreat seeing a wholelot of people.
So that was when I started doingteaching retreats, and I started
teaching after that.
So now back to your questionabout the transition of being a
teacher.
I, although I I loved to shareout of gratitude, it's mainly
(51:08):
out of gratitude.
I just wanted to share what wasso helpful for me.
I also had lots of doubtingthoughts, actually, for the
first, really for the first 10or 12 years in my mind, there
was a part of me that wasapologizing, like, you know,
what if they find I'm just, it'sjust little Jamie from Queens,
New York.
But that was, that's part of thedeal.
(51:31):
Who am I to share these theseprofound teachings?
And then there are other timeswhere you, you know, you might
believe your press, and peoplesay, Oh, you've changed my life.
And you think, oh, wow, maybe,maybe I'm I'm pretty good.
And so part of the deal islearning with to deal with
negative identifications.
(51:52):
What who am I?
Or hey, I'm the coming of thenext Buddha here, you know, and
starting to identify in thatway, or being subject to the
projections of others.
Either, who do you think youare?
Or, oh my God, you've changed mylife.
And so dealing with projectionsis also a key to being in that
(52:17):
seat.
And that's something that I talka lot about in working with that
in your in teaching, teachtaking the teacher seat.
But after a while, little bylittle, as the practice deepens
and you see it's not about me,it's about life using me.
It's about being a channel forsomething profound, that more
(52:41):
and more you get out of the wayand realize that you can trust
that the Dharma or life knowshow to use you.
And and then the doubts startfalling away.
I must say one last thing.
When I'd be teaching, when I'dbe actually giving a talk, for
instance, it would be okay mostof the time.
(53:03):
I sometimes I'd be kind ofwatching myself give a thought
talk, which is which is kind ofa hell realm.
But mostly it would be okayduring the talk, but it would be
leading up to the talk and thenthe post-mortem afterwards.
Oh, how did I do?
Whatever.
But these days I kind of justtrust that I'm being useful.
(53:24):
And that comes with experience.
Thank you for sharing that.
SPEAKER_01 (53:27):
I think a lot of people in this mastermind are
sharing mindfulness or want toshare mindfulness in secular
settings.
So some of us are coaches, someof us HR consultants or
professionals sharingmindfulness with teams in a say
a corporate setting.
(53:48):
Some are in healthcare oreducation, where words like
dharma and even spirituality arefrowned upon in those settings.
It's not safe to use thosewords, which is understandable.
And you know, mindfulness issort of embedded in spirituality
in a way where we're reallyconnected with energy and spirit
(54:13):
and fosters virtue, really.
The more we're mindful of ourexperience, the more we see the
harm that we may be doing toourselves and others, and the
more care we treat each moment,moment to moment, without or
with less and less judgment.
So I'm wondering if you have anythoughts or words for people
(54:35):
sharing mindfulness in secularsettings, what might be
overlooked or how to maybebridge that gap in a way of
communicating the power ofmindfulness across all aspects
of life in a secular settingwhere words like spirituality or
(54:56):
Buddhism or Dharma or religionmay be frowned upon.
SPEAKER_03 (55:00):
Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (55:01):
Important question, especially at this time.
SPEAKER_03 (55:04):
And it it's important to I I you know when I
said the word dharma before, Iwas assuming that you do use
have used words like that, or ordo you not?
SPEAKER_01 (55:13):
It depends on the context.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople know my background, and
I'm not here to prescribe anyreligion, I don't nor are you,
but but for those of you who maynot be familiar with that word
dharma, sometimes it'stranslated as truth or reality.
In other contexts, it may beconsidered like the Buddha's
teachings or truth of Buddhism.
(55:35):
I don't think of as a religionper se, but basically the nature
of reality could be considereddefinition of dharma.
SPEAKER_03 (55:43):
Okay, all right, good.
Good to know the label and whatyou've been sharing.
So words are very important,they can trigger people and
bring up resistance, and youwant to be able to connect in a
way that really resonatespeople.
In fact, the Buddha himself, asone of his last comments and
(56:05):
instructions, was go forth andspeak in the idiom of the
language of the people that youmeet, that you encounter.
And one other instruction likethat was when Jack Cornfield,
you probably all have heard ofJack Cornfield, when he was
leaving Thailand, he'd been amonk for about four years, and
he'd a Buddhist monk, and he'dspoke, and he asked his teacher,
(56:29):
Ajahn Cha, a great master, foradvice.
He said, You know, I think I'mgonna go back to the States and
I wanna I wanna share thisstuff.
It's been so powerful and foundto me, and I think I'm gonna
teach.
And do you have any advice?
And Ajahn Cha said, Yeah,there's one thing I can think
of.
You might call it Christianity.
And it was a beautiful,beautiful teaching that it
(56:52):
doesn't matter what you call it,you want to be able to
communicate and have whoever ison the receiving end take in.
And in these teachings, it isthere's an open invitation, come
and see for yourself.
So you're not trying tocommunicate any dogma.
However, there are someprinciples that when people
(57:15):
check out for themselves aretransforming, transformative.
The power of mindfulness istransformative.
And I sometimes say, if theBuddha came, could somehow
reappear and say, you know, thatmindfulness stuff, I was just
kidding.
You know, it wouldn't matterbecause I know it works.
So you're talking from your ownexperience.
(57:38):
And then the question is how totranslate that into a way that's
that's going to affect and beheard and be meaningful for
others.
And at this time, this is theway I see this mindfulness
explosion that's happened overthe last 20 or 30 years.
We're in a time, a crucial timein the human evolution, the
(58:00):
human experiment.
We're at a crossroads here.
And as one friend puts it, weare in a race between fear and
consciousness.
And sometimes I think of it asbasically just fear or love.
And so mindfulness is a tool tobring about more consciousness.
And as teachers of mindfulness,I think of you all, or people
(58:25):
who are in a position to sharewith others as agents of
consciousness that can helpawaken that capacity and
potential in others who thenawaken to that possibility and
share and ripple out, whetherthey're teachers or just in
their being.
(59:14):
This is actually Ramdas when Ifirst was seeing about studying
him.
And I went to Joseph and I said,he says, I got to stop my
meditation.
And and and Joseph said, What ishe gonna do?
Tell you to not be aware?
So, you know, if somebody says,No, I don't want to be aware,
I'm sorry, well, then they'rethey're choosing to sleepwalk.
Okay, may you wake up in time,but you want to just put it in
(59:39):
words of just this is learningto be a more aware, kind,
loving, compassionate humanbeing.
Now, with some of the thingsthat are often left out in
secular mindfulness that I thinkare vital, vital, whether or not
you're going to a corporation orteaching in a school or
(01:00:01):
wherever, besides just learninghow to be present, there's some
underpinnings of supports forthis practice that if if they're
not communicated, it's justthere's a big piece that's
missing.
And that is the importance ofethics and kindness.
(01:00:22):
And if you're leaving out a lifeof integrity, then you're you're
you're selling it short.
Because mindfulness is aboutlearning to be honest and
truthful with your experience.
Oh, this is what's happeningright now.
Oh, I'm sad right now.
I'm frightened right now.
(01:00:42):
There's love right now.
And it's learning to tell thetruth to yourself so that more
and more you can embed.
Embody the truth and share itwith others.
And the truth is that if you'recausing harm unconsciously or
consciously in some way, it'sreally hard to settle and find
(01:01:05):
peace inside.
And so in order to find the toreduce stress, lots of people
want to take mindfulness as astress reduction.
If you want to reduce stress,you've got to minimize the harm
you're causing to yourself or toothers.
That it kind of aligns you withyour deepest values.
(01:01:26):
And you probably know people whoembody integrity.
There's something very safe andrelaxing about them.
They're a refuge and you cantrust them.
And if you're with somebodywho's not straight, a con
artist, a con man, somebodywho's just out for themselves,
(01:01:49):
even if they talk a good talkabout, yeah, it's important to
be aware, you're not going to betrusting them and there's going
to be something missing, even ifthey're, they say all the right
words about mindfulness.
And so just you know foryourself when somebody embodies
integrity and ethics, itinspires you and it makes you
(01:02:12):
want to live the best you can.
So in these teachings, integrityis a basis for inner peace.
It's a foundation for innerpeace.
Not that we're saints all thetime, but and when we blow it,
we have to we keep on learningfrom it, as one of my teachers
(01:02:33):
says, as long as you'relearning, there are no mistakes.
But if you want to be moreconscious and more aware, then
you're you're in the game tokeep on growing and being aware.
So that's one thing.
And the one other thing that Ican think of that's sometimes
left out of secular mindfulnessis that it's more than just
feeling good and finding somesome ways to reduce your stress.
(01:02:57):
That it's actually possible, asI got a glimpse of that first
time I met Joseph Goldstein,it's actually possible to not be
run by your neurotic thoughts.
It's actually possible to uprootand wake up from confusion.
(01:03:18):
And it's actually possible tolessen living from greed or
hatred or confusion, and it'sactually possible to cultivate
more kindness, generosity, andwisdom and to really purify the
mind.
And it's all about rewiring yourbrain, your neural circuits.
(01:03:42):
If if if if somebody doesn'tkind of cringes at the word
spirituality, you can just lookat neuroscience.
And as it said, neurons thatfire together wire together.
And so you're kind of rewiringthe brain and the heart so that
you can start to act more inharmony with yourself and be an
(01:04:06):
inspiration for others.
So those two things, ethics andthe possibility of really
changing your mind in the mostbeautiful way to be more aligned
with all of the values that youhave.
And out of that, your love andyour compassion naturally shine
through.
That's the beautiful thing.
(01:04:27):
You don't have to work hard todo it, although, of course, it's
good to cultivate that.
But when your mind isn'tconfused, your natural way of
being, your love and yourcompassion and your light shines
through.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:41):
Thank you for sharing that, James.
I think all of us are herebecause we've experienced a
great deal of inner peace andinner freedom through this
practice.
And I think a lot of us aresharing mindfulness with similar
intentions out of gratitude andgenerosity and excitement about
how profound this practice canbe in our own personal lives.
(01:05:06):
We want to impact otherspersonally as well.
And as you said, we're in thisrace, sort of globally between
fear and consciousness or love.
And unlike any other time inhistory, the consequences of
that race are they can be direif if fear wins theirs.
(01:05:28):
So I I left the monastery aftertwo years because I was reading
Joanna Macy write about climatechange, and I I needed to do
everything I possibly could tosupport the planet, specifically
in regard to climate change.
And I thought, well, maybe theway I can help do that is to
(01:05:50):
share mindfulness and meditationwith people at scale.
And we have social inequity, wehave injustices left and right.
Take a look at our politicalclimate, especially in the
United States.
Um so with these larger socialissues, with climate change,
other forms of suffering andtrauma, how do you think
(01:06:13):
mindfulness can make society asa whole?
How can mindfulness make adifference to society as a
whole?
And how can we, as mindfulnessteachers, support that sea
change, support that race oflove and consciousness on these
larger issues outside of just,you know, inner peace?
SPEAKER_03 (01:06:36):
Yeah.
Glad you asked the question.
It's it's one of the mainmotivations I have for teaching.
As you said, it in introducingme, I'm I'm uh one of the
advisors for One Earth Sangha,which I highly recommend you
check out, which is DharmaResponse to Climate Change.
Sangha is S-A-N-G-H-A.
(01:06:58):
You just go to oneearthsangha.org.
And for me, this is more thanjust it's more than just finding
inner peace for yourself.
That would be a very limitedview of of what this practice is
about.
And as I said, consciousness iswhat's going to change this
world.
(01:07:19):
And never before, never beforehas there been as much capacity
for humans to destroy our veryexistence and and life on this
planet.
The planet will keep onsurviving, whether we do or not.
But we're we're going right neara cliff.
But at the same time, neverbefore has there been as much
(01:07:42):
consciousness.
Never.
Never before has there been asmuch exposure to mindfulness
practices, to compassion.
What was it?
The book that Paul Hawken wrotea book called Blessed Unrest a
number of years ago, where he hewas on a research project to see
(01:08:02):
how much good there is in theworld.
And he he discovered there arebetween, at that point, this is
many years ago, between one andtwo million people, two million
groups doing compassionate workon this planet.
So there's there's this quiteextraordinary opportunity here
that we're in to make adifference and be part of the
(01:08:26):
solution.
But mindfulness alone, innerpeace is not enough.
But it's not like you're goingto be proselytizing.
I remember when I first turnedon, got turned on to
mindfulness, to the practice.
I was so excited that I was, itwas like I would, I would run
down the streets and saying tomy friends, you just have to be
(01:08:47):
mindful.
You just have to be mindful.
And they kind of like, you know,slunk away from me, like, all
right, give me a break, youknow, because I can get very
enthusiastic about things.
And it took me a while to give abit softer sell and realize that
the more I could embody it, themore people would sometimes say,
Well, what are you into anyway?
(01:09:08):
I was a school teacher, and whenI first first started getting
introduced to the for thepractice, one of the first times
I came back, this is after Icame back after 1974, I'd been
teaching for about five or sixyears.
And I came back the first time Icame back, I used to have a
really good desk slam, like,come on, everybody, be quiet,
which would work for about 30seconds or so.
(01:09:31):
Kids liked being in my class.
I was cool, I had long hair andbeard, and I was like a hippie
in a very conservativeneighborhood in New York.
It's like, oh, we're in Mr.
Barris' class.
But the first time I came backafter being, after getting into
the meditation, the first timewas a very, very it got noisy as
classes do, and I just decidedI'd go quiet inside.
(01:09:52):
And I'd get quiet within myself,even though the whole class
might have been in pandemonium.
And inside of about 20 seconds,people would be saying, Look at
Mr.
Barris, what's he doing?
And I just keep on getting, Ijust needed to get quiet for
myself.
And lo and behold, after about aminute, there was this complete
(01:10:12):
hush in the class.
And then finally I opened up myeyes and they said, What were
you doing?
And I said, I just needed to bequiet.
Well, what were you doing?
And it turned out they had tobeg me to teach them what I was
doing.
That was then I knew that I hadfound the answer, not the hard
sell, just embody it.
(01:10:34):
And we I teach them a littleeach week, and I'd and I just
leave it there and say, no, nomore.
No.
Well, in the same way, you don'twant to proselytize and bang
over the head people saying, youjust have to be mindful.
But rather, the more you embodyit, the more it is, it touches
(01:10:55):
people.
There are some principles aroundthese teachings that I think can
make a huge difference inshifting the consciousness of
this planet.
One, as you start payingattention, you start seeing that
you're not separate fromeveryone else.
We're all in this together.
And there's an understandinglittle by little, I don't know
(01:11:18):
if if you've gotten into this,Sean, or you know, maybe you
intend to, about understandingthe interconnectedness of it
all.
As John Muir said, somethinglike, you know, once once you
see, once you take, try to takesomething out of the universe,
you see it every, it's hitchedto everything else.
So to really understand how whatwe do makes a difference, not
(01:11:42):
just to us, but to everyone inthis world.
And this reality that we're inright now is pointing that out
in a way that no that we'venever seen it before.
We'd better figure out how to beon the same page in this, or
it'll just keep on.
This virus is teaching us.
There's a beautiful, powerfulvideo.
(01:12:05):
I'll I'll share you the linklater on called A Letter from
the Virus.
Anyone has seen that?
Very powerful in Italian, andit's with subtitles, and it's
it's the virus speaking as anally coming to wake us up.
Then there's another video, TheGreat Realization.
Anybody see that one where thefather is reading the kid's book
(01:12:28):
to the child, looking back at2020 when people used to used to
do strange things on thisplanet.
So there, this is a wake-up callto see.
We're all in this together.
A couple of other principles atthe heart of these teachings,
actions have consequences.
What Jesus taught, what goesaround comes around.
(01:12:50):
Or, no, as ye sow, so shall yeread.
Colloquially, what goes aroundcomes around.
Or the law of karma, actionshave consequences.
Another principle, like we weresaying before about integrity,
that living with integrity feelsgood and is the way to honor all
life.
Another principle isstewardship, how good it feels
(01:13:15):
to express our caring andcompassion.
And one other principle is wecan change.
Change is possible.
If you have the intention, ifyou think, if your intention to
change is greater than yourintention to stay the same,
you'll change.
So all of those are underlyingprinciples that can shift
consciousness, that mindfulnessis a kind of gateway to
(01:13:40):
understanding.
SPEAKER_01 (01:13:41):
Great reflections, James.
That last point you said, Ithink it was your last point
where when people want tochange, when the suffering is
greater to stay the same, orsorry, the suff yeah, the
suffering is greater when youstay the same versus if you
change.
And people kind of realize thatto spark their process of waking
(01:14:03):
up and bringing mindfulness totheir experience and softening
their judgment and really tuninginto what's actually happening
moment to moment without thatfilter of story and judgment.
(01:14:32):
Sometimes we'll rationalize oursuffering or or feed the, you
know, I know you s you teach alot about joy.
And so, you know, maybe you canalso create leverage that way by
inviting people to experience agreater sense of freedom and and
joy and gratitude.
So I'm wondering if there'sanything you do in your
(01:14:52):
teachings to help create thatleverage point to either remind
people of the suffering of notbeing mindful or the joy of
being mindful.
There's any process orinvitation or even meditation on
that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:15:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Maybe I can lead you somethingin something right now.
Yeah, I teach this course,Awakening Joy, the which you're
welcome to check out and just goto awakeningjoy or
awakeningjoy.info.
And I wrote a book by that titlebecause I got very serious about
my practice, as I sometimes say,dead serious, and I lost my joy
for a while.
(01:15:28):
So I I have these 10 differentstates that that can be
cultivated that lead towardsgreater well-being.
And the first is intention.
It all starts with intention.
If you can have a vision ofsomething of a possibility, like
you had a vision to learn andabout teaching mindfulness from
(01:15:51):
Sean.
If you once you have a vision,then you are inspired to go in
that direction.
And one of my inspiringteachings that that that
motivated me for many years,even before I got into no, it
was after I got into meditation,was from this guy Napoleon Hill,
who wrote a book by the strangetitle of Think and Grow Rich,
(01:16:13):
but it's a really good book.
And the the essence of histeaching is what the mind can
conceive and believe it canachieve.
So it starts with conceiving ofthe possibility, having a
vision, and then believing thatit's possible and doing whatever
(01:16:33):
you can to make that happen.
So the key piece in this wholeprocess is being inspired to
create something.
Like I was inspired when I firstheard Joseph, as I said at the
very beginning.
I'm going for it.
That was the key moment in thewhole process.
And probably you've had thosemoments in your life many times.
(01:16:56):
But we can, I can take youthrough a little practice right
now to get in touch with yourintention that inspires you.
So I invite you, if you like,close your eyes for a moment.
SPEAKER_04 (01:17:09):
So here you are learning to be a mindfulness
teacher.
SPEAKER_03 (01:17:20):
And just imagine learning not only for yourself
but for others so that you canreally contribute.
Just imagine learning more andmore to find that center within
(01:17:42):
yourself to learn to reallyaccess all the love and
compassion and wisdom insidethat's there waiting to be
shared.
(01:18:05):
And just imagine as your ownpractice deepens, how good it
will feel to share with othersand help them awaken in the same
way that you have.
(01:18:41):
Continuing to deepen and matureso that others can benefit from
what you have to share.
SPEAKER_04 (01:18:54):
Just get a sense of what that would feel like and
look like seems like aworthwhile project.
(01:19:38):
Get in touch with your ownheartfelt decision to really go
for it.
SPEAKER_03 (01:19:53):
No matter what doubts might come into your
mind, oh, who am I?
What if I don't do it well?
Let go of that and to reallyjust go for it and do your part
and let life support you.
SPEAKER_04 (01:20:13):
No report card, no timetable.
You're just facing in thatdirection.
Because this is the vision thatreally inspires you.
Just decide to really go for itright now.
(01:20:43):
And if you were to put in a fewwords for yourself, your
inspiring manner or slogan.
SPEAKER_03 (01:20:57):
Whether it's like I said, I'm going for it, or may I
really be of service?
May I bring out as much love andwisdom as I can.
SPEAKER_04 (01:21:08):
You find the words that work for you.
So when there's doubts thatarise, I get in the way.
SPEAKER_03 (01:22:40):
So if anything comes out of our time here together,
let's just take some time tohear from you.
Yeah.
Gabrielle, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (01:22:51):
Hi, um Gabrielle.
I'm from Melbourne, so I'm sorryabout being a bit late at 6.30
or nearly seven in the morning.
So but I got here, which wasawesome.
So that last visualization wasbeautiful, thank you.
And I guess my question is, I'vebeen, I have a lot of different
practices, and I was quiteheartened to see that your
practice was really leading to aspiritual experience or leading
(01:23:14):
to a part of a heightened, moreconnected part of self is how I
experienced it.
And I've been wondering aboutmindfulness and how much I can
push that and where I'm leaningtowards using it is in spiritual
experiences in a heightenedstate to take people in a
kindness, curious space withinplaces that have great power.
(01:23:36):
And I'm just again heartened tosee that you've doing that,
which is lovely.
And the people that I want towork with, either autistic or
autism carers, there's a lot oftrauma, a lot of stress ongoing.
Have you worked with thatpopulation in any way or with
people who have had a lot ofongoing stress that really isn't
(01:23:58):
going to go away, but the waythey perceive it and experience,
I think, is the opportunity tomake the biggest change for
themselves.
SPEAKER_03 (01:24:06):
Beautiful.
Thank you for wanting to do thatwork.
It's so important.
I haven't worked specificallywith that population.
However, there are a few thingsthat do come to mind.
One is that two differentteachers have experience with
that population that you mightcheck out.
One is Will Cabotzin, who is theson of John Cabotzin.
(01:24:29):
You probably have heard of JohnCabotzin.
Will Cabotzin.
His wife is an expert withworking with autism.
And he and she have offeredteachings, and I would imagine
there are some online, aroundworking with that population,
particularly in supportingparents and caregivers so that
(01:24:52):
they don't stress out.
So it's specifically aboutbringing mindfulness to people
who work with that population.
So you might check out, I'm surehe has a website and full of
teachings as well.
His wife's name is Teresa, butWill Cabot's in, and so they
probably have things writtenabout it.
(01:25:13):
There's another teacher, KateMunding, who M-U-N-D-I-N-G, who
teaches stuff online.
She's a spirit rock teacher.
They're both spirit rockteachers.
And she has a child who is onthe spectrum, and she's been
learning a lot.
And she also teaches how tobring mindfulness and education.
(01:25:35):
So I would imagine she'd havesomething to say and some leads
about that.
And then as well, Melbourne, youuh do you have any connection to
Melbourne Insight?
No, I don't.
So there's there's a a a goodcommunity in Melbourne.
I've gone there a few times.
I love Melbourne.
It's one of my favorite places.
(01:25:57):
And Melbourne Insight, they meeton, I think it's Monday nights,
and there's another one thatmeets on well, Wednesday nights.
Although these days, oh no,you're just opening up,
actually.
Who knows how long it'll bebecause I'm in touch with people
from Melbourne all the time.
SPEAKER_05 (01:26:12):
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_03 (01:26:14):
So check out Melbourne Insight and be around
like-minded friends that you canyou can sit with as well.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:26:21):
No, that's magic.
Thank you so much.
And thank you for being heretoday.
SPEAKER_03 (01:26:24):
And Sean, thank you.
Good to meet you.
Glad you can join.
SPEAKER_01 (01:26:28):
Lovely.
James, remember you often willend the workshop or a class by
uh singing Here Comes the Sun.
I think that's George Harrison.
SPEAKER_03 (01:26:40):
How about the the actual one when you want me to
lead a song?
I can pull up my guitar if youwant.
Oh, that'd be great.
Okay.
That's all actually the the theperfect mindfulness song is I
Can See Clearly Now.
All right.
So sing with me.
Will you please do that?
SPEAKER_01 (01:26:56):
And do you want us on mute or not?
SPEAKER_03 (01:26:58):
It was either between that and listen this
little light of mine is anotherof my favorites.
But since I said I can seeclearly now, but you can, I
think if you keep on singingthis little light of mine, that
can be as your ongoinginstructions.
And when I sing I can seeclearly now, you know, it might
seem like a sappy kind of athing.
It's not like, oh, it's going tobe bright sunshiny days.
(01:27:21):
There's a lot of days that areahead that will be that will be
challenging and dark as well.
But if we keep facing towardsthe light, that's what will
bring out.
So say it's going to be brightsunshiny days.
Just keep on turning towards thelight.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (01:30:50):
Bright sunshiny day.
It's gonna be bright.
SPEAKER_03 (01:31:04):
So last last thing I I was saying, and I gotta go,
but don't forget about there'ssorrow in this world that we
have to work with and deal with,and there's beauty and goodness
in this world.
And the more you notice and lookfor the good inside and outside,
(01:31:24):
the more you bring it out.
And so let your light shine andsee all the good around you and
help bring it out because that'swhat's going to heal this world.
And you're all agents ofconsciousness in that regard.
And so happy that we could spendsome time together and support
you in that.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31:42):
James, thank you so much for teachings and your
generosity today.
We can't thank you enough.
On behalf of everyone, thankyou.
SPEAKER_03 (01:31:53):
And may our coming here together be for the benefit
of the whole world, of everyonein our life, and may it ripple
out and keep spreading goodness.
So great to be with you andthank you, Sean, and thank you
for what you're doing.
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