#358 Wayne Feltman Shares What Most People Get Wrong About Skylights

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The concept of skylights isstill centered around, oh, they

(00:03):
leak, oh, there's just awarranty nightmare. Talk to any
roofer, contractor, builder,they'll say, Yeah, I love what
they do, but there's the riskreward ratio, right? We had to
get that back to where the riskwasn't there and the reward was
all that you were capitalizingon. We actually did something
that you're not supposed to doin the world of marketing, and
we branded our third generationthe no weak skylight.

(00:26):
Hey guys, welcome back to themodern craftsman podcast.
Today's guest is someone whoworked for Velux. But this
conversation isn't just going tobe about skylights. It's a
conversation about journey, themessy, winding and often
beautiful process of figuringout who you are and how you want
to show up in this world. WayneFeltman is one of the guys who's

(00:46):
done a lot, seen a lot, andisn't afraid to talk about it.
He's been with Velux for 25years, and we're really grateful
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Questionnaire was very detailed.I like it was nice. I feel like
I know you already.
I hope it wasn't too much. Ijust thought I'd like so I've

(03:42):
listened to a handful of yourpodcasts, and I got a sense for
the way you guys like to gothrough these. And I wanted to
give you a pretty good snapshotof who I was. And I think based
on the interviews I've seen youdo in the past, you get in as
much the psychology of businessand the person as you do. You
know what we do for a living?Yeah,
absolutely. And I think, I mean,I think more the better. And to

(04:05):
be honest, I think that a lot oftimes the conversation goes
better when it's uniqueperspective based on it's your
upbringing, your past, your lifeexperience. So I appreciate all
the detail that you put into it.And I took the time to read
through all of it, and I wasvery fascinated, very

(04:26):
interested, excited to talkmore. But we obviously have read
your your story some. But I wantto start on a more personal
level. You you discuss yourchildhood and building forts and
riding around and mowing lawnswith your brothers. What did you
think success would look likewhen you grew up as that young

(04:48):
kid?
That's interesting. You know, Idon't think as a young kid you
necessarily have a set idea ofwhat success is. I. I grew up,
like said, in a family whereboth sides were entrepreneurial,
had done a number of differentthings, and they weren't
successful in what they did. So,you know, it was really more

(05:10):
about, you know, what, what doesmy success look like going
forward? What is my path goingto be? And, you know, as a kid,
I mean, you know, I'm like a lotof kids, I thought about a lot
of different things, everythingfrom, you know, I wanted to be a
pilot, like a lot of young kidsdo, to wanted to be a builder
and architect, which mygrandfather was a builder. So

(05:30):
that inspired me on that front.But, you know, coming out of
grade school into high school, Ireally didn't have a set path.
And, you know, I thought, Okay,well, when I get to college,
which I originally went toschool, to pursue architecture.
I thought, Okay, once, once Iget to college, I'll kind of get
this thing figured out, only tofind out about a year in that,
you know, I still didn't have itfigured out. Yeah, and quickly

(05:53):
change gears and shifted myfocus to business from
architecture. Did
it? I think that maybe it's,it's the way that you're brought
up, but like I always, I knew Iwanted to be successful, but
without having a fullunderstanding of what I wanted
to do, I found it difficult tobelieve that I would be

(06:14):
successful. And I know in yourstory, you know, you told us
that you just didn't reallyunderstand your path, and there
was a long journey, obviously,to get you to where you are
today. But do you think that,like you have to understand
where you're bound to end up inorder to be successful, or have
this idea that you can besuccessful? I
don't, and I think, you know,when you're younger, you kind of

(06:37):
think that's the way the worldworks and the way life works.
You kind of, you know, figureout what direction you want to
take in life, and you startpursuing it. And then as you
start living life and startpursuing your dreams, you
realize, you know what theychange as time goes on. You
know, different experiences andexposures in life kind of
redirect where you thought youwere headed or where you want to

(06:58):
head. And that was very much thecase with me. Like said, I
guess, you know, when I wasreally young, growing up, I
thought, Okay, I'm going to belike my grandparents or my
parents, where, you know, I wantto own my own business and run
my own shop and do my own thing.And ultimately, you know, I
tried that for a bit, and quitehonestly, didn't, didn't really
care for that entrepreneurialrunning a business 24/7 that I

(07:22):
grew up around. And why is thatso? Well, I grew up in grade
school unloading semi trailersin the evenings after school,
working weekends. You know, mydad owned a hardware store,
retail hardware store, andthat's, you know, a seven day a
week kind of business. And, youknow, I kind of grew up around

(07:44):
that, and that just wasn't thelife that I wanted. Quite
honestly, I wanted my weekends.And growing up, my brothers and
I started, like, set a lawn carebusiness, and kind of had some
independence with that we'remaking at the time, you know,
for for grade school into highschool aged kids, we were
making, you know, pretty goodliving, if you will, with the

(08:06):
freedom of having our weekendsto do what we wanted. And I
didn't see that you didn't cutlawns on the weekends. Generally
speaking, no, we spent ourweekends out on the lake. Quite
honestly,
it's the money that that iswhat, like I did the exact same
thing. I started, like, a littlelong business with my buddy, and
we would push it had to bewithin like, a couple blocks of

(08:29):
where you live, because we werepushing the equipment to get to
the houses. And I lived in atown where, like, kids, parents
didn't make them work. But I hadso much fun doing that. And
we're, we're in sixth grade,seventh grade, eighth grade, and
just trying to make some extra,extra cash to be able to have
some fun with but those are someof, like, the best memories I

(08:52):
have, and just simple timesbeing outside doing that stuff.
And that's
kind of how it started with us.I grew up on a cul de sac, and
then behind us was a farm acrossthe creek from us, if you will.
So, you know, one side of theneighborhood was a subdivision,
and then the other side was kindof farmland, at a horse farm,
and a bunch of acreage andwoods. So it was a perfect place

(09:15):
to grow up. But, you know, westarted, we had about an acre of
grass, and my dad gave us acouple 21 inch mowers. And said,
All right, kids are growing up.Time to mow. And this was about
third fourth grade. And then itjust kind of snowballed. From
there, it went from doing onlyours to doing ours and the
neighbors, and then the otherneighbor. And next thing you
know, there were, I think, sevenor eight homes on the cul de

(09:35):
sac. We were pretty much on aroutine basis, doing four or
five of them, a couple of themwere holdouts that we couldn't
close for whatever reason. Andthen, like said, it just
expanded from there wasn'tgotten to high school. We
started mowing in mygrandparents house, and next
thing you know, we're doing abunch of homes adjacent to them.

(09:56):
And then we called it drop atrailer. So we ultimately were
working. Really out of aboutfour neighborhoods, and we
didn't grow it significantly. Wehad at most 20 to 25 lawns, and
that was, that was our steadybusiness, if you will, that we
knew would be there all summerlong. And then my older brother
worked at a landscape nursery.He went to school, got a two

(10:19):
year associate's horticulturedegree. And through high school,
he started working at alandscape nursery, and they took
on larger projects. But ifsomebody came in and said, Yeah,
I just want to buy a tree. Wecome plant a tree in my backyard
that wasn't a big enough of aproject for them to want to
tackle. So he would sub thatwork out to myself and a buddy,
and we would go, you know, startdoing that. And then once he had

(10:43):
spent a few years there and Iwas in college, we decided to
kind of go full time at it, ifyou will, and start our own
business. And he left that thatcompany, and so as combination
of mowing, but constructivelandscape as well. So at that
time, he was doing designservices, and myself and a
buddy, we're doing, I'll call itthe labor side of things.

(11:04):
Yeah, how big was How big wasyour dad's hardware store in
terms of, was it just like onestored here in multiple stores?
Was it so like? And the reason Iasked when I was I, I've read
your your your story. And I feellike I can relate to being, you
know, 18 to 21 years old andtrying to figure out what you

(11:26):
wanted to do, where you wantedto be, who you were supposed to
be. And even earlier, like, whatam I going to do with my life?
And we had this really oldhardware store in town that I
grew up in, and it was justlike, super romantic old school,
like all the bins, hand labelwith all the hardware, the guy
in there knew everything aboutit, like they had one of

(11:49):
everything. And I think back onthat, and I always thought to
myself, like, this would be sucha cool place to own. And for a
while I was like, I kind of wantto, like, own this really old
hardware store one day, and thenI read your store, and you're
like, I hated owning a hardwarestore. And I was like, damn,
there goes that idea. Yeah.

(12:12):
So to answer your question, wehad one main store, which was
our larger store, and it was anicer store. It was, it wasn't
the old it was still an oldschool hardware store in the
sense of, you know, the way weoperated, but it was about a
20,000 square foot store at thetime. Was a fairly large store,
yeah, but, you know, the way youdescribed it, and we did
everything, I'll call it. Wewere kind of the early home

(12:34):
center, if you will, yeah,because we had all the different
departments within that store,small engine repair and lawn and
garden tools, all that down tothe hardware, the nuts and bolts
and fasteners, everything youcould possibly want we had. The
name of the business was servicehardware, and that was something
my dad prided him in, as youpretty much bring anything to us

(12:54):
and we try to surface it foryou, yeah, whether it, whether
it had a motor on it or not,we'll try it. And then he grew
that to a couple small towns. Sothat was on the north side of
India, as the north side ofIndia was growing. And then we
expanded to a couple smalltowns, a town called Fishers
Indiana, and then up intoPendleton, Indiana, kind of
couple smaller satellite stores,but like a lot of you know,

(13:18):
hardware stores, once thedevelopment passed, our main
store, the home centers came totown, yeah, and it came a little
bit of a struggle. Quitehonestly, I feel
like all those small romanticshops ended up getting bought up
by, you know, Ace Hardware, ortrue value or or one of the
bigger brands, and then sure,
there's still a couple near me,and they're still super cool,

(13:41):
like they're I just feel likethey have so much crap. There's
not enough room in them foreverything that they have. And
it's like there'll be somethingin a perfect package that's
like, 40 years old that they'dbe willing to part with, that's
just been sitting there forlike, the right person. They
always have, like, an attic areathat you can walk up that's just
a bunch of miscellaneous stuffthey've collected over the

(14:02):
years. Sounds like this is notthe type of hardware store that
you guys own. So I'm still goingto hold out some hope that it's
going to be a really cool idea,like when I retire to own one.
Well, I think you would beimpressed by some of the things
that we collected, that peoplewould bring to us that had
engines on them. I mean, like Isaid, we were a small engine

(14:23):
repair shop as well. So I mean,everything from snowmobiles to
many bikes to go carts, anythingwith a small little, you know,
either to council, Briggs andStratton, you know, some of the
older style engines we couldservice and repair them. And
sometimes the price was beyondwhat they wanted to spend. And
next thing you know, you you ownthose things because they don't

(14:45):
want to hold them
home. Yeah, absolutely, it's, itsounds, I don't know if it's
like I always thought that we'reNick we're one of the last
generations that had, like, thequintessential childhood being
outside and the elements likerobbing stuff from. Of house
builds, like you said, to buildyour own forts, or going in the
dumpster and picking out scrapsof wood. It sounds that you had

(15:08):
a similar upbringing and asimilar childhood. Do you think
that that has impacted you andlike your life today?
For sure, it probably isresponsible for my career at
this point, and I mean thatsincerely, like I said, we had
some a farm behind us, you know,we didn't own it, but a lot of
land and the development, thefringe of the development, was

(15:30):
kind of right, where oursubdivision was so similar to
your situation, there was a lotof new homes going up, and we
went back into the woods. Andwhen I say we built a tree fort.
And we're talking, you know, wepicked the right tree about 20
feet up, and we're talking abouta two story tree fort, and you
got a hardware at your disposaland plenty of lumber around. You

(15:52):
know, that's, that's where I cutmy teeth, though. I'm, you know,
really getting my hands dirtyand using tools and really
learning, learning the skills tobe a craftsman. I
feel like that's the stuff theylike write books about and make
movies about. That just doesn'thappen anymore. For sure, like
childhood experience coming ofage that I don't know I I look

(16:15):
back on those times with a deepfondness. I remember they built
a house across the street fromme, once they actually tore the
house down and then built acomplete new house. And I
remember going over there. I wasprobably like seven or eight,
and 711 was big near us, and allthe construction workers would
buy, like, the hot dogs and thedrinks, and they had this like

(16:37):
stickers that you could peel offand possibly win stuff. And the
guys would never peel them off,and I would go over there, like
every day after work and get allthis free winnings from all of
their cups and hot dogs. And Iwas like, seven and then just go
to 711 we'd like treat ourselvesto a bunch of hot dogs and sodas
thanks to the constructionworkers across the street.

(16:58):
Yeah, we usually ask them if wecould have some of the stuff.
And most of the time, they weremore than generous, you know,
because they knew what we wereup to, and they'd come back and
see what we were up to.Ironically, our parents never
really came back until we werelargely built out on this thing.
And then when they did see it,they were, like, terrified of
how big it was and how high itwas. I think it was when we

(17:19):
stole one of my dad's tractorbatteries and logged it back
there. I mean, literally, wehad, like, little low voltage
system where you have, you know,lighting throughout it. And so
when I say, Well, you know, youlearn a lot by doing these
things. And when we learn craft,you know, carpentry, we learned
low voltage electrical systems,if you will, put little sockets
and light bulbs and ran off acar battery. Yeah,

(17:40):
that's so cool. So you discussedearly on in your career, you you
jumped around a bunch sellingWall Street type job to
obviously, the landscaping,transitioning into your your
Velux career, when throughout,like your journey, did you feel

(18:03):
that what you were doing wasn'tfor you and it was time to make
a change?
Yeah? No, that's an excellentquestion. So I graduated college
in 1995 and like a lot of kidscoming out of college, you know,
I was kind of chasing thealmighty dollar one of my
customers that we maintain theirlawn was a very successful stock

(18:25):
broker. So that's what got meinto that business. It was more
the appeal of seeing what thelifestyle, you know, it could
afford. And I was alwaysinterested in, you know,
investments and business, if youwill. Part of that came out of,
you know, some of my collegecurriculum, but I gave that a
go, and you know, it's, it's,this was still back in the days,
or the Blue Room, where they putyou in a cubicle and give you a

(18:47):
call list and 200 dials a daybefore you leave, and add it up
to it, usually about a 12 hourday. So I stuck that out for
about a year. I just That'safter spending most of my time
outdoors, being in a cubiclelike that was quite tough.
Were you making? Were you makingthe money that you like
anticipated?
Well, that's interesting. So Imean, that industry at the time

(19:10):
was, you know, all aboutreaching out to your friends and
family and trying to bring asmany of them into the fold as
you could. I intentionally tookkind of a different approach,
because the turnover rate in theindustry about 90% of people
that start out in that industrydon't, don't stay in it, but the
assets that you bring to themtend to it's a sticky industry
in that regard. So yeah, I knewthat going in, and I didn't want

(19:35):
to be the guy that brought myfriends and family in only to
leave it until I knew I couldmake it, and then I was going to
commit to it for a long termcareer. So I tried to do it the
old school way, which was dialfor dollars. And, you know, it
was amazing that you actuallycould recruit people that way
and bring in assets that way,but, and I was pretty good on
the phones to where I could getthem in. But then, you know,

(19:55):
they show up, and you gotsomebody that's worked a 3040,
year. Career that has arollover, and then they realize
that you're a 22 year old kidright out of college, pretty wet
behind the ears. And so that wasa struggle. Once you realize,
okay, I'm not quite right. Andgive credit to one of the older
established brokers that wasthere. He said, Wayne, you know,

(20:18):
get out of this industry. Go getinto outside sales, build some
good relationships, treatpeople, right, and then come
back into this industry, youknow, 20 years from now, yeah,
and that's how you become a verysuccessful broker. So not only
did I not really enjoy what Iwas doing, but I took that to
heart. And my roommate at thetime was an outside sales doing

(20:39):
quite well. So I just said,Okay, I need to maybe make a
leap here and get into outsidesales where I'm out and about.
And that led me to the computerindustry. Worked for a small
systems integration company forabout three years. And when I
say small, it was a local momand pop kind of thing. And I had
learned enough on the financeside of things about 401, K and
retirement and the importance ofstarting early. And one of the

(21:02):
promises they had made to mewhen I started was that they
would start a 401, K. They werelike, set an upstart. And when
that really didn't come tofruition, I decided to kind of
look towards a bigger typecompany, and landed at a fortune
500 company selling time andattendance systems. But again,
my heart just wasn't in it,yeah. And that was a, you know,

(21:23):
like, a lot of sales job, youknow, hit your monthly number to
make your money more of acommission based job. So not a
lot of stability in that regard.And so, you know, after about
four years of I'll call itchasing the almighty dollar,
which is basically what thosejobs were, you know, I said, you
know. And I honestly wasn'treally actively looking at the

(21:44):
time, my girlfriend, at thetime, was was looking and saw an
ad for Velux, you know. And thiswas back when, you know, kind of
pre internet, most people lookedat the classifieds for jobs. And
she had lived through the ordealof me replacing some skylights
in my home, where we where weboth became familiar with Velux,
and I was like, Huh? I know alittle bit about Velux, having

(22:05):
just replaced some skylights inmy own house with Velux. Can we
talk about that? I don't want tocut you off, but I find, like
the the issue that you werehaving and what you figured out
was wrong with it is actuallyvery interesting, and I kind of
want to discuss that also,
for sure, for sure. So, yeah,back in 95 when I graduated

(22:27):
college, I had bought a house,and like a lot of homes in the
mid 90s, it had the old plasticbubbles on it, and those things
that were so discolored andclouded over you really weren't
getting much light through it.Definitely couldn't see through
them. And when it would rain, itjust sounded like drums. I mean,
they were noisy. So I needed anew roof. So at that time, I, at

(22:51):
this point, I had already had alittle exposure to V Lux, and
knew it was a quality glassskylight. So replaced the roof
and replaced them with Eluxskylights. And this was mid
summer. Fast forward into thefall, colder winter months.
We're moving in. You know, theskylight started dripping on my
pool table. Like every goodbatch where I have a pool table

(23:12):
in my great room at the time,you're
gonna piss a lot of college kidsoff right now, where it's like,
Yo, he just got done College. Hebought his own house. He's
putting a new roof on it withskylights, and he has a pool
table. And they're like, becauseI literally can't afford
anything. Well,
there's a little more backstoryto that. Actually, my older
brother had bought the house,and unfortunately I lost him in

(23:34):
an accident, so I assumed thehouse and his mortgage when he
had passed, and it justcoincided kind of when I was
graduating college, but, butanyway, back to the skylight
situation. I mean, that was whenI really got intimate with the
company. Because, you know, eventhough I had grown up with, you
know, skylights on our personalresidence and down at my
grandfather's Lake House, whichwere Velux with no issues at all

(23:59):
when it came to my own house andreplaced them. You know, I ended
up having a problem. And itturns out it was improper
installation that they had notwrapped the frames with an
adhesive underlayment, or reallyany underlayment. And I've got a
rough kind of B board seeingceiling that's not really that
airtight, if you will. So thatwarm, moist air, conditioned air

(24:22):
was making back, you know,contact the backside of the step
flashing, and it would it wouldfrost, and then the sun would
come up, warm it up, and itwould melt that frost, and it
would drip down through therough opening. And like I said,
I wasn't that knowledgeableabout him at the time, and it
called the contractor back. Hecame back out and applied a
bucket, a bowl or tar all theway around it, you know. Now

(24:43):
I've got a an ugly Veloxskylight, you know. But he
assured me that, you know, theproblem was solved. Well, it
wasn't. It came back, you know,and it continued. So I called
him again, so he came back out.Had a little bit more. And then,
you know, finally, he wasconvinced that it wasn't. It his
fault that it was amanufacturing defect of some
kind, and encouraged me to call,call the manufacturer or the

(25:07):
supplier. So roundabout way, Igot a hold of Velux, talked to
somebody in our customer serviceteam, or the, you know, the V
Lux customer service team. Atthe time, I remember distinctly
them saying, Hey, you got a faxmachine, which I did. They faxed
over about a 10 page documentthat was the installation
instructions, and they walked methrough it, step by step on how
these things get installed. Andsaid, you know, get up there and

(25:29):
take a look. Pull the claddingback, pull the flashing back,
and see if this thing's, youknow, wrapped with underlayment,
and it wasn't. And he goes, youknow, if it's not, you know,
remove the flashing, wrap it,put it back together, and your
problem will go away. And sureenough, that's what I did, and
problem went away. So
it was just condensation thewhole time it was, yeah,
all I'm thinking about whenyou're saying that Wayne is if

(25:50):
someone called today a homeownerand said, This is what I'm
having an issue with, and youguys were to advise someone, all
right, climb up on your roof,pull the cladding back. Want you
to look at this detail, 90s,
man. I know 90s.
Yeah. Well, this will tell yousomething about me. It's also a
1212 pitch. I live in an A framestyle house, so it's a 1212

(26:13):
pitches. You could watch. Youcould walk a 1212 pitch like,
Oh, I wish you can't watch themanymore. You know,
I didn't have my roof or feetabout me back then, I do these
days, but back then it was, youknow, it was get out the 30 foot
extension ladder. Fortunately,Dad had one of those. And, you
know, use a car in the drivewayto keep it from kicking out and
push that thing up the roof andget up there to open it up. It's

(26:34):
funny. It's such a, such arandom story, but your comment
just reminded me of it havingroofer feet. And I remember
being real little, and myneighbor had mulch delivered to
their house, and dump trucklifts up. He's got mulch in it,
but there's mulch stuck way up,and the guy walks up the bed of

(26:56):
the dump truck and gets up thereand starts shoveling the mulch
out. And I am enamored, and Ilook at his my neighbor's name
was Phil. I'm like, Phil, how'she do that? Like, I couldn't
understand how he walked up thedump truck when the dump trucks
fully tilted, and he looked atme, goes, Oh, he's got balance.

(27:16):
And at that, at that age, Ijust, I didn't know what balance
was. And that's like for, Idon't know how long, weeks,
months, days, whatever it was,but all I kept thinking, all I
wanted to learn was, how do Iget balance? I just, I want to
be able to walk up somethinglike that. So you're talking
about having roofer feed. Imean, it's real, like you walk
you watch someone that'scomfortable on roof. They can

(27:38):
walk up a 1212, pitch, not thinkanything of it. And you get
someone that's uncomfortablewith it, you know, a 612
pitches, you know, they'retripping and falling off it.
Yeah,
yeah. If you want to get rooferfees, spend some time with the
roofing crew. You'll pick it uppretty quick. You got it, yeah.
Honestly, when I first startedwith Elex, back then, one of the
ways they trained us, we hadservice techs around the nation,

(27:59):
so I went up to Chicago andspent time with our service
tech, who had been with us atthat time for 1520, years. And
I'll never forget it that one ofthe first jobs he took me out on
was a three story condo complex,which is con pretty common in
Chicago, you know, townhomestyle homes, and to go up a 40
foot extension ladder andtransition from the top of that
ladder onto that roof. You know,I was questioning whether I had

(28:21):
made the right decision, and heassured me, goes, now a, this
doesn't happen very often,especially down your way. You
won't be doing this. And B, youget roofer feet about you.
You'll get comfortable. And tohis credit, he said, but the key
to a long life is not to get toocomfortable. Yeah, and I've
always remembered that. And yougot to be safe when you're up
there
too. You need extension ladderfeets too, because you get beat

(28:43):
because you get on a 40 footextension ladder. And that's
like a different beast,especially when it starts moving
like this is so sketchy, you
look around, you're like,alright, which part is of this
is going to fail, yeah. Andwhere do I go? My
dad always had these ghettoladders too, where I'm like, I
feel like they were free, theywere bent, they didn't work

(29:06):
correctly. And my dad, at onepoint, had the like, pick or
extending scaffold, and it waslike, wood, just slats of wood
that were together. And he wouldbe up on that thing, and it
would be moving and bouncing,and he's like, you're fine. And
then he's just shaking. I'mlike, holding on to the post the
whole time. I'm like, I'm notfine at all. I don't trust this.

(29:28):
They make metal picks now thatwe don't need to be on this
telescopic wouldn't pick fromlike, 50 years ago. He probably
still has it. I bet you he does,to be honest. I'm not even
kidding.
I probably still use it too. Ohyeah. He does
the ladders that he uses. I'mlike, why are you on that? He's
like, I'm 70 years old. Ithasn't failed at this point. I'm

(29:50):
like, I guess I don't know. Theymight rather have a ladder that
looks somewhat decent. My
grandfather had wooden extensionladders. Oh yeah, I remember
that. Yeah. Super heavy, but,like, you climb up them and they
creak, Yeah, same thing. Youbake. You're fine. It's like,
you didn't tie anything off. Youjust lean it against the roof
where you hoped it didn't slip.Yeah,
my dad would make his, like, hisposts for the roof Jacks out of

(30:13):
two by fours, just like nailingthem together. What about, what
were the aluminum poles? Ohyeah.
Oh yeah. You're talking aboutpump jacks, yeah, yeah, out
of just two by fours nowtogether, and they, like, they
would sway so much like theywere designed for that. I they
were, but it still was sketchy.Like, now you have aluminum pump
jacks that don't move right,

(30:35):
with rubber on them, and they'relike, yeah, yeah. You'd watch
them able to buy for us together
Now, fortunately, technology hascome a long ways, and there are
definitely a lot more things outthere to make, make it safe to
yeah these things. Hey
guys. Quick break from thepodcast. Head over to modern
craftsman.co scroll all the wayto the bottom and sign up for
our newsletter. You're going toget a weekly email from us, but

(30:56):
you're also going to get someepisode recaps with actionable
items that can help you improveyour business and be more
profitable. Now back to thepodcast.
So we we talk a lot on thepodcast about this illusion that
people have of having everythingput together and understanding
their path. And it sounds asthough your path forward in life

(31:19):
from the time you know you weredeciding what you wanted to do
in college to what you're goingto do for a career that you
didn't necessarily know exactlywhere you were going to wind up.
What kept you moving forward inthe direction that you feel like
you eventually landed in? Didyou follow like any sort of

(31:39):
advice? Was a, Hey, I'm justgoing to listen to my heart.
What kind of led you to whereyou are now. Because it seems as
though your path was notnecessarily from A to B. No,
it definitely wasn't. So, Imean, you know, I don't think
anyone wakes up and says, youknow, I think I'm going to go
into the skylight industry andbuild a, you know, at this

(32:00):
point, 20 is 26. Year career,selling skylights. You know, it
definitely wasn't on my mindwhen I was in grade school, high
school, or even college, butsome early exposures to
skylights really set the path,and I just didn't know it at the
time. You know, from my familyhad bought a condo up in

(32:21):
northern Indiana. And to thebuilders credit, I mean, they
had a loss that, you know, backthen, hard to air conditioning,
hard to cool, put, put someventing skylights in them. So
that was my very first exposure.That was in the early 80s, mid
80s, couple, couple ventingskylights in the top of a loft
of a townhome style condo, andwe'd open them up and, you know,

(32:43):
it cool the place off reallyquick when we got up there. Fast
forward. You know, at thatpoint, that was really our first
exposure to it. My parents hadmoved the family to a new house.
Needed to finish off an atticspace to give my sister a
bedroom. I'm one of four kids. Ihad a younger sister, and then
as three brothers, and so theydecided to put her upstairs, and

(33:05):
us kids down in the basement,the boys. And they decided, You
know what, that those skylightsat the condo were nice. Let's,
let's do that in thisrenovation. And we added a
couple venting skylights in thatrenovation. So, I mean, that
was, you know, and then then youheard about my experience when I
ultimately bought my house andhad to replace some plastic
bubbles. And then there was oneother experience. My grandfather

(33:28):
had a log cabin down in southernIndiana, also a lake house, and
that's actually where I grew up,initially, boating and whatnot.
And my parents acquired thatcabin at his passing, and we
needed to renovate it. It was a1960s log cabin. Try to give you
the image, and it's the darklogs, low, low ceilings, if you

(33:51):
will. And my mom always wanted asun room, and we ended up adding
a sunroom onto the cabin. Andthe builder, to, again, to the
builder's credit, said, well,once we add this sunroom on, you
know, the light you're gettinginto those vertical windows,
into that kitchen, is going tobe pretty much shut off. So he
goes, You know, I recommend acouple things, and this builder
does a lot of work on this smalllake, and just about every other

(34:14):
house down there has skylights.He goes, I always put skylights
in the sunroom, and there's aconcept for that. Now, we call
it borrowed light, where youreally brighten that sunroom and
pull it in through the verticalwindows. But he said, I also
recommend we add some skylightsover the kitchen directly. And
we did that, and it was justtransformative. I mean, it
really dramatically changed thelook of that kitchen. And we

(34:37):
also did it actually on theboathouse, which was kind of
unique application. And to thisday, I still think some of the
best applications for skylightsare utility sheds, boat houses,
you know, I'll call them outdoorstructures that you don't
necessarily associate withputting a skylight. But I mean,
this was a concrete block 1960sboathouse that there was no
daylight in there at all, nowindows, so when it was shut and

(34:59):
down. Was dark, and a lot oftimes someone would forget to
turn the light switch out, andwe go down there and flip the
switch and no light, you know,try changing a light bulb in a
dark boat house. Yeah, it's notfun. So just a couple, you know,
three by four skylights, and ittotally transformed that
boathouse. So in early, youknow, through those experiences,

(35:20):
you know, I really came to valuewhat a skylight can do. And,
like said, fast forward when Ireally was kind of open to a new
career path. Originally, I went,like said, to school to be an
architect, but didn't pursue achange to business. Graduate
with a business andentrepreneurship degree,
management degree, but after,you know, for four years of

(35:41):
chasing almighty dollar and justnot really being happy. Said,
You know what? This is,something I think I could get
behind is, you know, sellingskylights. I know a little bit
about them, knew a little bitabout the company at that point,
sent them a resume, and, youknow, next thing you know, I'm
out selling skylights andtransforming people's homes,
working with builders,remodelers, architects. So it

(36:03):
all kind of came full circle.And I started off as the
Indiana, Kentucky salesrepresentative, territory
representative, really enjoyed,you know, those, those four
years greatly, because I was,you know, you know, on the
streets, making it happen. Andliterally, could see, you know,
whether it be homorama typeprojects, where you you know

(36:24):
that, you know they had nointentions of adding skylights.
And then, you know, afterworking with the builder and the
architect, next thing you know,they're incorporating them and
just the impact it would have ontheir homes working with
remodeler, same kind of thing,using the, you know, the
example, the guys that dosunrooms, and convincing them
that, you know, hey, you canhave a better sunroom than the
other guy by adding skylights.And then just seeing the impact,

(36:48):
not only that, the trade peoplewould have when they witnessed
it firsthand, but what theirconsumers would experience,
yeah, you know it, you know. AndI always say, you know, if
you're a builder, if you take,you know, two homes somewhere,
floor plans, one with skylights,one without, and open them up
like a model home, kind offormat where you run people
through them and then askconsumers afterwards which one

(37:10):
they liked better? Can be verysimilar. Floor plans, very
similar, design and decoration.Interior wise, they invariably
will say the one with skylights.And the thing that's
interesting, though, and it's achallenge for us, actually, is
they won't necessarily know why.I don't know. It just felt
better, you know, it's just moreopen and and then, well, did you
know that? Notice that that onewas, you know, daylit with a

(37:31):
bunch of skylights, and thenit's like, ah, the aha moment,
right? The light bulb goes off.That was the difference. It
was, it was interesting too, tosee like I know that there's a
stigma around skylights, and,like, the original skylights and
the issues and that they wereleaking and typically installer
error. But then also, like, youforget about the production

(37:55):
shift of home building and howproduction builders aren't
utilizing skylights, and then,like, I never put any thought to
trust roofs where it's like,yeah, what are you going to do
for a skylight? When you havethis trust, you trust roof, and
then you have utilities andinsulation. It really it's got

(38:16):
to be somewhat of an uphillbattle for your company when
there's all of these changes andthe stigmas around skylights,
and I never really put that muchthought to it before, but it was
interesting to hear that thatperspective, even just with like
the trust roof, and how mucheverything's gone that that way,
how difficult it would be tointegrate that into your process

(38:38):
if you already don't have it inthere?
Yeah, no, you bring up a lot ofreally important points. First
one is just the perception thatall skylights leak are
problematic. You know,unfortunately that, you know,
you know, skylights really kindof took off in the late 60s into
the 70s as a design element,because they do help designers

(39:01):
overcome design challenges, youknow, interior, you know,
daylighting, the core of aspace. I mean that some of the
things we just talked about interms of, you know, you know,
borrowed white and whatnot. Butthe thing is, you know, once the
industry really took off, youknow, a lot of players tried to
enter the industry. And there's,there's, there's, there's some,

(39:21):
unfortunately, some prettycrappy product out there that
was put into the marketplace aswell. There's different design
and installation methodologiesat play as well. You guys have
probably heard the terms cellflash or pan flash, and you got
curb mount and you got deckmount. You know, in different
regions of the country, usedifferent methodologies. But

(39:42):
really, the, you know, a lot ofthe plastic bubbles that were
sold in the 70s into the 80swere a self flash type bubble
that were just hard down to theroof deck. I mean, they were
only as good as the sealant youwere using, and they were
problematic. I mean, they justwere and fortunately, you know,
there were also quality productsout there. That were GLASS
Based, that were step flashedin. And if you're not familiar

(40:04):
with step flashing, it's thesame way we put a dormer on a
house or a chimney on a house,you know, we we've step flashing
in with with the shingles, andit's a dry installation. There's
no cocks or adhesives used. Andif you put a 2530 year roof
down, you know, properlyinstalled, that should last
problem free for 2530, years.And Velux has always made a
quality glass product with withengineered step flashing kits.

(40:29):
We would call it a systemapproach. You get a quality deck
mount skylight or curb mountskylight, and then we have an
engineered flashing kit tomatch. That gives you that
assurance that you're not goingto have problems, in the short
term or the long term. It justwasn't true in the 60s and 70s
into the 80s. It's crazy
to think how much we rely onsealants and adhesives and tapes

(40:51):
these days. That's somethingI've been concerned about for a
while, especially when we'rediscussing the envelopes of
homes and how much better thingswould be if we were integrating
just more traditional flashingdetails, for sure, not getting
the air sealing, which I thinkthat you could probably address
in one way or another, but Ithink that we do rely a lot on

(41:15):
adhesives and sealants wherethere's probably better, better
options. Well,
I mean, to that point, Ithought, I've thought about that
in reference, or in comparisonto commercial I think about some
of the high rise projects I'vebeen part of. You know, you have
these precast panels and everywindow there's no flange or

(41:35):
tape, everything's cocked in,and it's usually back a rod and
then two beads of caulking. Butthe difference is, on a
situation like that is it'sdesigned to be replaced. Like
that, caulking will eventuallyneed to be replaced, and that's
part of the envelope maintenanceover time. It might be 25 years,
but it has to be done. Where, Ithink in residential you, you

(41:58):
kind of expect that that doesn'thave to be maintained. Yeah, and
it's also a lot of times I feellike inaccessible, because it
was never planned to bemaintained in the first place.
You know, or you don't know,when it's not doing its job, or
you have an issue, and you go tothe caulk or the tar like you

(42:18):
were discussing, like you'refinally making this way worse,
because now, like the water'sstill getting in from somewhere
else, and now you're justtrapping it. Well,
what's interesting is Velux hasalways led with our deck mount
product. Us old school guys saydeck is best, and if it's on my
house, it's going to be a deckmount skylight with one of our
engineered flashings, and then aclose second would be our curb

(42:40):
mount. Now there's certainapplications where curb mount
makes sense, flat roofs andwhatnot, where our decks not
appropriate. And then there'sthat, you know, that wild child
called self flash, and foryears, Velox didn't offer it or
make it in certain parts of thecountry. You get down on, you
know, down into Florida, thateven, you know, Georgia,
Carolina's a little bit selfFlash is just an accepted method

(43:01):
of installation. And for years,we kept just saying, Guys,
switch to deck, switch to deck.It's better step flash it in.
But the trades the roofingindustry down there, cell Flash
is just an accepted method. Anddown there they don't have the
real cold temperatures, so theydon't have the, I'll call it the
condensation issues, and itworks. So we finally said, All

(43:24):
right, well, if we give themwhat they want, at least we can
establish a relationship withthese contractors and maybe have
a better opportunity to educatethem on the advantages of a
properly step flashed inskyline. And like I said today,
we offer all three installationmethodologies, and we think we
got a better spin on it in termsof the way we make the product.

(43:45):
But, you know, again, I'm oldschool. I still like a step
flashed in product, and if it'son my house, that's what I'm
going
to use. So something that I Iwant to talk about from a
listener's perspective and alife experience perspective, and
has nothing to do withskylights, which is also a tough
subject, but I would haveassumed it's got to be something

(44:07):
that's important to you. Youmentioned it in your story, but
you said that you lost yourolder brother in a tractor
accident. I did. I did. And youwere, you were in college at
that point.
I was, it was my senior year ofcollege, and like I said, we
were running a landscapingbusiness. And like so we grew up
around tractors, and it'sunfortunately, I think it

(44:31):
probably came down to just got alittle too comfortable, but we
had rented a back a backhoe, andhe was grading out a hillside.
And, long story short, got got alittle squirrely, and it
flipped. He got thrown off, andit rolled down on top of him. So
fortunately or unfortunately, Iwasn't there. My buddy that I

(44:51):
was running the business withwas I was actually down in the
Carolinas with my girlfriend,taking a much needed little
vacation or getaway. And. Thelike said, got, got the call in
the evening that my brother hadpassed away. Yeah, I can
I have a I lost a good buddy ofmine when I was 19, and I'm

(45:12):
still in touch with his brotherstoday, and I know how, how
difficult that has been, even atthis point, 25 years later for
them to try and cope with. So Inot that I understand, but I
definitely feel for you and havea tiny bit of perspective as to
how that can, you know, affectyour life and your family? Do

(45:34):
you think that that has madeyour approach to life and your
perspective on time. Youmentioned how the hands of time
continue to move faster andfaster. Do you think that a lot
of that perspective is and yourlife perspective is based on
that experience?
For sure? I mean, it can't helpbut impact the way you view

(45:58):
things. But it wasn't just mybrother. I had a close friend at
this point. You know, once youget some years under your belt,
we all know somebody that passedprobably prematurely, another
good friend of mine, who hadjust started his family, three
kids, developed colon cancer andpassed away quite suddenly and

(46:19):
tragically. That one, you know,accidents happen. I guess you
kind of dismiss that. And then,you know, when the health issues
start surfacing with some ofyour friends and and family
members, you start to realizethere's just no guarantees in
life. Yeah, you know, make, makethe most of it.
Yeah, it's it's scary. We'regoing through that right now

(46:41):
with my father in law. And Ithink a lot of times you just
lose perspective of that, youlose sight of that, or time
passes, or you just write it offlike it's not close enough to
me. I'm 39 and one of one of mygood friends from growing up her
her husband just got diagnosedwith like, a pretty significant

(47:03):
brain tumor, and he's around ourage, and I'm like, it hits you a
lot more when it's somebodywho's your age. And you can,
like, there's a metric to gagethat, where it's like, yeah, at
this point now, I'm not 25 I'mnot invincible. Shit happens?
People get sick, and it does, itdoes put a perspective on things

(47:26):
that, sadly, can provide a lotof clarity for you while you're
trying to figure out what'simportant in life,
for sure, for sure.
So you, you said that you were,you took this job with Velux,
and that it provides like thatoutlet for you. You said you

(47:47):
were going to be an architect.You like to tinker. You like the
hands on aspect of your job andof what you're doing. Did you
know going into this projectthat it was going to provide,
like that type of experience foryou,
not as much as it has. So, youknow, you know, the job

(48:10):
description was obviouslyinterfacing with, you know,
builders, roofers, remodelers,architects and our dealer base,
you know. So, you know, we runthe full gamut, which is nice,
one of the reasons I think I'vestuck around so long is just the
diversity of what we do as salesreps for Velux, because we do
interface with all thosedifferent parties, so to speak.

(48:30):
But the most rewarding part ofit is being able to influence
that designer, builder,remodeler, and really show them
the power of skylights, ordaylighting through the roof, a
phrase that a lot of us use ofVelox is, you know, the most
impactful, least costlyremodeling project you can
undertake is daylight in yourhome with skylights. And I truly

(48:54):
believe that's true. I mean,people spend a fortune on
hardwood floors, granitecountertops and all these
things. But if it's a 1960s1970s eight foot ceiling, ranch
style house, you know, okay,yeah, it freshens it up. But it
really isn't that dramatic of achange. You open up that
ceiling, and, you know, lift theceiling, so to speak, open that

(49:15):
up, bring in some daylight andfresh air, for that matter,
through the roof. Now we'retalking about transformative and
I guess I've done it so manytimes, and I've seen the results
firsthand so many times thatit's just, I love it. And it
doesn't get old seeing the, youknow, the expressions on
people's faces, when youactually pull that off,

(49:37):
yeah, I like something. You saidthat that skylights aren't just
for light, they're for comfort,health and emotion. And I think
that that's pretty good insight.And there are, there's a lot of
renovations that we've donewhere adding natural light,
adding a window, adding a door,adding skylights, was like the
biggest impact. And I'm like, weput so much money into so many

(49:59):
other things. You spend so muchmoney on connections. And I'm
like, I we could have just cutthese windows in and been done,
yeah, and, like I said,depending on the, you know, the
application, I mean, if it's thecore of a space, I mean,
there's, you know, you takethat, you know, a townhome, for
example, where you've got, youknow, adjacent townhomes off
both sides, the only place youcan bring daylight in from

(50:20):
through vertical windows in thefront and the front, the back of
that structure. And if it's adeep structure, you know, really
bringing it in from overheads.The way to
do it, we had a project in inthe city. It was actually, I
don't know, it wasn't a rowhome, but they were really
tight. They had like two footalleys between the homes, and
they had an eight foot by eightfoot backyard, or, I'm sorry,
back deck, which had like twofoot of space, so it was

(50:43):
basically 100 square feet. Andthey wanted, they ultimately
wanted, to expand their kitchenand take up the deck space, and
they were going to lose all thatspace. But the the number one
thing that they talked aboutwhen we started that project was
we need natural light in thiskitchen. The existing one is so
dark. We have this window, wehave this large slider and I
had, you know, we had pitchedhim on doing a, I think it's the

(51:05):
sky Max, the big one. And, youknow, and we had said, what if
we, what if we install a large,a really large skylight, and we
all the client, ultimately endedup going for it, and to your to
what you said, the emotion whenyou walked into that kitchen,
you know, you'd approach thekitchen and be like, Man, this

(51:25):
is a really nice kitchen. Wow.Why is there so much natural
light? And then you got intothere, and there was just, just
this massive piece of glass thatcaptured everything above it.
And every other window in thathome was just, you know, what
didn't capture light becausethere was a house two feet away
from it. And every project we'vedone to date, anytime we've

(51:47):
built or remodeled in a spacethat has access to a roof, we've
always pitched it for us. Ithink that, you know, tying back
to the emotion, it's always theway that we, you know, I think
that there I'm gonna kind ofclass classify, like, there's
this typical install where it'slike, you just punch the
opening, you bring in the light,and it's in the room, and it's

(52:09):
and it's a skylight. And everyproject we've done, we've always
tried to push that limit, to toto more of a, you know, my my
favorite buzzword, but more ofan intentional detail, and it's
just a matter of moving it in alittle bit of one direction or
the other to do somethingdifferent than it typically
would. One of my favoriteexamples, it was a very

(52:33):
inexpensive skylight, verysmall, but, you know, they
wanted this small skylight abovethe staircase, and it was
originally drawn to be directlyover the staircase itself, and
we had moved it, and we actuallypushed it up against the wall,
so one of the walls extended allthe way up to the glass. And it
actually made the spacebrighter, because as the sun

(52:55):
poured in, it actually reflectedacross the entire wall surface.
And it's those little momentsthat, are like, you know, we we
talk about them, and then theyhappen. And then the project is
done, and you look at it and yourealize how dramatic that that
micro detail is, and tying itback to something, as, you know,
quote, unquote, simple as addinga skylight to that space. But

(53:18):
it's, it is. It's, you know,it's interesting how the concept
of skylights is still centeredaround, oh, they leak. Oh,
there's just a warrantynightmare. But on the flip side,
they're actually, they don'tleak when they're installed
correctly, and they're hugelyimpactful

(53:38):
well, and I think we've come along ways from really that
perception. I mean, so we're onour third generation of product
right now. So we had our firstgeneration that really started
early 80s through 1994 and wecame out with our second
generation, which from 95 up to2010 our current generation
product, or our thirdgeneration, started in 2010 and

(54:01):
I mean, this obviously the weakissue was an issue that we were
battling as an industry and as acompany. And so we decided when
we came out with our thirdgeneration product that we
really needed to bringconfidence back to the
marketplace. I mean, people lovewhat skylights do. I mean, you
know, you talk to any roofer,contractor, builder, they'll
say, Yeah, I love what they do,but there's the risk reward

(54:23):
ratio, right? And we had to getthat back to where the risk
wasn't there and the reward wasall that you were capitalizing
on. And so I mean, we actuallydid something that you're not
supposed to do in the world ofmarketing, and we branded our
third generation, the no weakskylight, and we brought a
warranty to the table, a 10 yearno leak, a product and labor

(54:47):
warranty, 10 year comprehensivewarranty. And that we think has
really achieved what we werehoping to do, which is bring
confidence back to themarketplace. And how
did you like from, you know,from. Strategic standpoint, how
did you actually execute that?Was it just branding, or was
there more, you know, technicalinput? No,

(55:10):
no, great question. So the firstand second generation products
were actually very goodproducts, and they weren't. We
still have our first generationproduct, you know, a lot of
them. We still replacing themtoday that are 4045, years old
out in the marketplace,installed properly. You know,
those things would perform quitewell now. They just weren't very
forgiving. If you didn't installthem properly, they'd come back

(55:32):
to bite you, potentially. And sowith the third generation
product, we did somethingunique, I mean, so it was a
ground up redesign of theproduct where we incorporated
three redundant layers ofprotection. So the if you look
at our current deck mountdesign, the first layer is an
integrated deck seal. Call it acontinuous mounting bracket that
has a closed cell foam thatserves really as the first layer

(55:54):
of protection. It does seal thisthing down to the deck nice and
tight with our third generationour current product, we now
include an adhesive underlaymentin the flashing kits, and that's
something that with the firsttwo generations, we expected the
contractor to go source. And alot of times, I mean, you know
how that goes. If you're notsupplying it, it may or may not
get used. And quite honestly, ifit's our older generation

(56:17):
product and it was problematic,it's very similar to what
happened on my own house. It wasnever wrapped properly with
underlayment, and like said,Velux, as a manufacturer, wasn't
supplying that at the time, butit's always been in our
instructions to do that, but youwould have had to bring that to
the table on your own. So withour current product, we provide
that in the box, and then, ofcourse, we have our engineered

(56:37):
flashing systems. And if there'ssomething that really has made
vlogs, the world leader inskylights. It is that engineered
flashing system. It's, you know,nobody's got anything comparable
to it. It's second to none, andit works very, very well when
it's installed properly to wherethose first two layers really
aren't, you know, you'rehopefully not relying on them.
They're there in the event thatyou do make an error. But like I

(57:01):
said, our current stuff isperforming very, very well.
We've had it in the marketplacenow we're going on just over 15
years, and it speaks for itselfin terms of just how few issues
we've had,
and even that that deck seal,it's, it's, it's sealed directly
to the unit itself. And you'renot putting any sort of sealant
on that that that's just goingstraight onto your plywood, that

(57:23):
is correct. So the first twogenerations had, like, brackets,
mounting brackets, four or sixbrackets that you would screw
down to the deck, then you had areally rough, rough opening. And
so our current generationproduct has a continuous L
bracket, if you will. And wecall it a deck seal, but it's a
continuous bracket that servesthat not only as the mounting
bracket, but also as a seal downto the roof deck. On the

(57:45):
underside of that is a closedcell phone gasket that seals
nice and tight to the roof
deck. I'm looking at thebrochure that, sorry, Nick, go
ahead.
No, I was gonna say, but so youhave all the tech there and all
the product, but when you sayyou're you're warranting the
labor. How are like, I guess,where I'm going with this is, I

(58:07):
think a lot of people hearproduct warranties, and there's,
there is this kind of stigmathat a product warranty means
nothing, because the vendor isjust going to come out and tell
me it was installed wrong, andthey're going to wash, wash
their hands, and we've all dealtwith it. Anyone that's listening
to this has dealt with that. Sowhen you say there's a labor
warranty, what's what is like?What is qualifying a a an issue

(58:33):
to be covered under thatwarranty?
No, no, that's fair. So yes, itdoes require that the product be
installed per instruction. Sothe one thing I will say, and
like I said, I've worked for VLux 26 years, is, you know, if
you're using a V Lux product andyou have a problem with it,
we're going to go out and helpyou. There's no question about
it. So
I have, I have a leakingskylight, you Velux comes out,

(58:55):
inspects it, and to in thatpoint, they determine whether it
was installed correctly
or not correct. We'll usuallytry to engage the contract. The
contractor is still involved,and sometimes they are,
sometimes they aren't, but thefirst step is always to engage
the contractor and say, hey, youknow, understand, you're having
a problem with one of ourproducts. We'd like to come out,
you know, with you and take alook at it together. And you

(59:17):
know, most of the time,unfortunately, it does come down
to an installation issue, butmost, most contractors are very
thankful to have somebody that'sknowledgeable come out and just
kind of walk them through whatthey did wrong. Here's the few
things that you got to correct,and the problem goes away. Well,
you know, Wayne, I think that's,I think that's the key here, is,
you know, you're absolutelyright. A lot of guys are really

(59:41):
appreciate that someone comesout and inspects it right? So if
it's an install error, likeyou're on site and saying, hey,
you know, Nick, you installedthis incorrectly, and you're
going to point out what I didincorrectly, and I'm there and I
want this to be fixed, and I'mthinking that you're going to
come in and tell me it's aproduct thing, and we're going
to you. You know, hash this out.But come to find out, you know,

(01:00:02):
oh, I installed somethingincorrectly, but you're pointing
out exactly what it is, and Ican address it immediately,
rather than, you know, fourlayers of tar, you know, hoping
that it eventually stopsleaking, right? You know? And I
think that going into it, whereit's because I think about it in
terms of their, you know,there's vendors that will say

(01:00:25):
they do cover warranty, I mean,material and labor. From a
warranty perspective, they mightjust automatically, just pay the
claim, and they're not coming onand understanding what the issue
is, or they're gonna or they'rejust going to assume that it's
installed correctly, or, Hey,you, you know, we'll give you,
we'll give you a product andthen prove to us that it was
installed correctly. Instead,you guys are being proactive and

(01:00:46):
going out there and actuallyinspecting it. And I think that,
I think that's the key here, isthat, you know, you've put the
technology in place to make surethat, you know, there's three
steps to leak, but you're alsostanding behind it in the sense
of, hey, we'll come out. Ifthere's an issue, we'll come out
and we'll we'll either replacethe thing and pay to have it
replaced if it's a productfailure, or we're going to work

(01:01:08):
with your contractor and getthis thing fixed,
sure, and like so the good newsis, with our current generation
product, I mean, the number ofservice calls, if you will, that
we go on These days issignificantly reduced. What's
the number one issue you see
number one issue we see withskylights, it used to be they

(01:01:30):
weren't wrapped properly, and itwould lead to condensation
issues in colder climates.Today, with our current
generation product that's stillnow that the adhesive under
limits in the box. It's not themost common thing, but I would
still say it's probably justfolks that don't know how to
properly step flash. You knowwhere they think? I mean, Velux

(01:01:52):
used to use larger step 10s. Andguys would think you'd go two
and three courses of shinglesfor per step 10. Well, the
whole, the whole concept of stepflashing goes out the window
when you when you do that. Sowe've shortened them up now, you
know, with the idea of helpingguys out to understand that, you
know, each course of shingle hasits own respective Step 10, but
it's amazing how many roofers,you know, our sales team trains

(01:02:16):
and teaches how to roof, and Imean that sincerely, been on a
roof with a lot of roofers thatjust didn't fully, you know,
understand step flashing and theproper mechanism by which it
works. So I today that that'sprobably still the biggest issue
we run into, and we look at asan opportunity right to engage a
contractor teach them, you know,the right way to do things. And,

(01:02:40):
you know, turn it, turn somebodythat was maybe had a problem
with the skylight, into anadvocate form. Because once they
do learn the properinstallation, and it's not hard.
I mean, I can do a, you know, aproperly step flash skylight,
just as fast as any other typeof skylight, and know that it's
going to last 2530, yearswithout giving you a problem.
And once you give thatcontractor that's, you know, not

(01:03:02):
really educated on proper stepflashing and how to do it right.
That knowledge, they become anadvocate for us. I'm
over here nerding out on theinstallation manual and the step
flashing details. I mean, like,see the thing that blows my
mind? It's windows. It's like,obviously, there's more windows
than skylights in the world, butI guarantee you, there's just as

(01:03:24):
many window installations thatleak as skylights. It's just
that, like, people don't see it
well, no, it becomes above you,right? Like, correct,
but like, I guarantee like. Andif you walk a new construction
house, I I don't want to throw anumber out there, but there's a
lot that I see that the windowsare installed incorrectly. And

(01:03:47):
the stakes may not be quite ashigh because it's a it's a
vertical plane rather than ahorizontal or semi horizontal
plane. But like you guys, get abad rap for your product, just
like any other window companydoes, because somebody doesn't
follow installationinstructions, and I'm looking at

(01:04:09):
your installation instructions,and I'm not a roofer, I've cut
in skylights into a roof, I'vecut in roof vents, I've cut in
sun tunnels. From you guys, likeyour installation instructions
are dialed and tell you exactlyhow to do it, like, if you're a
roofer, this should not be thathard, right?

(01:04:31):
And honestly, like said,Gentlemen, I mean, we sell
hundreds of 1000s of skylights ayear, and you know, we've got a
pretty small sales team, youknow, in terms of field support
sales reps, you know, about 50employees out there in the field
selling, and we got other fieldpersonnel. But in terms of, you
know, territory reps forhundreds and hundreds of 1000s

(01:04:53):
of skylights that we sell everyyear. So again, I want to make
sure we're, you know, very clearthat. The issues that were
really common in the 70s, 80s,even into the early 90s, with
these new generation ofskylights, the problems are
very, very few.
Yeah, I think a lot. I know Ihave my roofer out to a job

(01:05:14):
where they had a couple ofskylights installed, and one of
the issues they were runninginto where it's like, you guys
are creating a no caulk system.And they were caulking the
keyways like, up against theskylight too, which is just
trapping all of that dirt andthen water. And he's like, this
is one of like, I see this allthe time, or they'll cut their

(01:05:36):
shingles too close to theskylight itself. And he's like,
You have to give this some roomand do not caulk this area
around them, which, again, islike user error. And like
I said that there's a whole newgeneration of roofers coming
into the the industry today thatyou know don't have the the
biases of the past, and I saythe bias where they feel like

(01:05:57):
they've got to break out a tubeof caulk or a bucket of bull and
start Tarn around it, but you'reabsolutely right. A lot of the
problems that do exist out therefrom guys that you know think
they're doing something to helpthe situation, when really what
they're doing is, you know,causing problems. You know,
manufacturers, you know, providedetailed instructions for a
reason, and generally speaking,not generally, almost always, if

(01:06:18):
you follow the instructions,you're going to be just fine.
And that's definitely true withour products.
They're usually the first thingto go in the garbage. I don't
need them. Wait, what's thescrew for? I got one extra screw
here. Now I'm going to open upthe instructions see what's
going on. You mentioned thatyou're a tinkerer. You enjoy
reading. I think it was funny.You mentioned that was the

(01:06:42):
Britannica encyclopedia like yourecently bought, I guess, not
that recently, but you boughtthe entire catalog of
encyclopedias because it'sSomeday you may feel like you
want to read them. So
hopefully there's a fewlisteners out there that can
appreciate this. I mean, I was akid in the, you know, the 70s
and the 80s, and we did havethat World Book Encyclopedia on

(01:07:02):
the shelf, you know. And, youknow, when you had to go do a
research project, you know, thatwas the first place you turned
as a kid, right?
I mean, I, I grew up in the 90s.We used it. I feel like
they would try and sell themdoor to door also. Well, they
were
so that was the thing in the 70sand 80s. And obviously my
parents bought in hook, line andsinker, because we had the
complete set on the shelf in theoffice. But, you know, as a kid,

(01:07:25):
you know, I would literally getlaw, I mean, every topic under
the sun and, of course, theWorld Book had great pictures,
you know. So you'd start in on aschool, you know, research
project of some kind that youwere supposed to be doing. Next
thing, you know, you're readingin all these random topics of
different things that you justdidn't even know about. So I
really enjoyed that as a kid,and some of my buddies have

(01:07:47):
blown me so much crap, becauseit was, I think was 2009 or 10,
the World Book, or not WorldBook, the Encyclopedia
Britannica had announced thatthey were no longer going to
print that, you know, the numberof sales had dropped off to the
point where it just wasn'tprofitable to do a printed
edition. I think it was lessthan 10,000 volumes were

(01:08:10):
produced the last series, andthey were having troubles even
getting rid of
those, because the internetexists exactly. I
fully understand that. But so,yeah, I indulged and bought the
whole collection, actuallysitting right across from me
here. But have the last, last2010 version of the Encyclopedia

(01:08:34):
Britannica, and one of thesedays I'll hopefully have some
time to sit around and read
it. You said that at some pointwhen you're when you're old and
possibly decrepit, hopefullyyour eyes still work well enough
to sit down and read that.
Yeah, yeah.
You also mentioned that you dida couple of marathons.

(01:08:56):
I have so for anyone that's beena traveling salesman, like I
said, I was a territory rep forfour years, and that wasn't too
bad. Then I took a promotion toa district manager, which had me
travel in six states. So thenyou start doing some traveling,
and I started putting on someweight, and, yeah, you know,
just as a way to try to keep theweight off and still be able to

(01:09:20):
eat what I wanted. I start, Istarted running, and got into,
you know, doing five ks and 10Ks. And once you get into a
running group, you know, and youknow, connect with a bunch of
like minded individuals, thenext thing you know, they're
pushing you to run halfmarathons. So you start running
half marathons. And then, youknow, the question always comes
up if you're in one of theserunning groups is, you know, how

(01:09:41):
do you run a marathon? Or, youknow, and you don't want to
answer no. So next thing you do,sign up, start running
marathons. So yeah, like I said,I enjoy the five Ks, 10 Ks, the
halves. I've done a probably2025, of those. And those you
can kind of tackle with. A wholelot of training, not
recommended, but you can getthrough it. And I tried a

(01:10:04):
similar approach with my firstmarathon, which was the San
Diego I've got a thing for SanDiego. It's just a beautiful
city, and it kicked my butt,quite honestly,
at what mile were you like? Ididn't do enough training. Well,
the longest training run I thinkI did for that one was probably,

(01:10:25):
it was the half marathon leadingup to it. So, a 13, but I never
got into those, you know, 16,1718, mile training runs that
you're supposed to do. Yeah,that's when it screws you up,
yeah. Oh, for sure. And like,so, yeah, once I got up to that,
like, you know, you hit thewall. And it was playing around
that 1718, miles, yeah, and thenit's just grit right to get
through it. And so lessonlearned, I re attempted a decade

(01:10:51):
later, and took on Chicago, andI ran the Chicago Marathon. And
little, much, much betterexperience. I wasn't struggling
as bad, but I had another decadeof age on me as well. And that's
the
thing. It's like, alright, soyou went from being 30 to being
40. There's a big differencebetween 30 and 40, even training

(01:11:13):
aside,
for sure, for sure. And I'vealready passed my 50th, and I
did not undertake a thirdmarathon.
So do 60 in the cards?
I don't know. I'm also a snowskier, and I'm trying to, I'm
trying to preserve the knees a

(01:11:34):
little bit like out, likedownhill, yeah, try
to get out to Colorado everyyear, somewhere out west, but so
I really enjoy
running is brutal on the knees.It's like, it's, I mean,
especially long distance, it'sjust like your legs are just
absolutely toast, you know? Andit's
like a lot of things. I mean, ifyou talk to an orthopedic

(01:11:55):
surgeon, they can tell if you'rea runner, a consistent runner,
or not. So your body doesn'tadapt. Well, they would tell
you, not necessarily, as long asyou train properly. And I think
that's the catch is, you know,I've, you know, never
conditioned myself or trainconsistently enough to be going
those kind of distances. And atthis point in my life, I'm not

(01:12:18):
sure I want to commit the time.I mean, it takes a lot of time
to training properly for amarathon
in the morning or after work.
Generally, I'm a morning runnerbefore the heat and humidity. I
live in Indianapolis, and we gethot and humid in the summer.
Yeah. So early morning runs iskind of gets your day off to a

(01:12:39):
great start. But again, my mainmotivation was just to keep the
weight off and try to stayhealthier.
Did you ski as a kid?
No, honestly, unless you want tocount the hill in our backyard
where we strapped on some ofthose Sears, those really skinny
skis that will spring on theback. But no, the first time I

(01:13:00):
went skiing was high school,actually, yeah, and my, my uncle
took us up to Boyne, Michigan,Northern Michigan, and my
mother's house, all of, I think,350, feet of vertical. But to
us, that was a monster. Youknow, yeah, my family honestly
didn't travel much growing up.We weren't a vacationing type

(01:13:21):
family, just because, again, thecommitment to the hardware store
and the retail lifestyle, if youwill. But once we went up to
Michigan, I was hooked. I reallyand then we started. I joined a
fraternity in college and joinedthe Ball State Ski Club, which
had us getting on a Greyhoundbus and going out west for the

(01:13:42):
first time. And after that, Iwas hooked. And so just about
every year I'm going somewhereto get some
skiing in where's your favoriteplace to ski in Colorado? I need
to go back in my mind, I wouldsay Steamboat Springs. And I say
that because it's a little bitoff the beaten path, but, but

(01:14:02):
rumor has it, it's not so muchoff the beaten path anymore, and
it's gotten pretty, quitepopular. But I love the tree
skiing. It's known for itsskiing through the trees, and it
wasn't as crowded as all youryour centrally located resorts
in Colorado, but so I thinkfinally that. But, you know,
there's not a bad one out there.I like them all. I went out

(01:14:23):
to Whistler two years ago. Iwent to school for a minute in
Colorado, so I skied a bunch outthere, but I went to Whistler.
Have you been I have not. That'son my bucket list for sure.
Yeah. So it's expensive, butsuper cool. It's not like a ton
of elevation change is justexpansive. And then, like,

(01:14:44):
there's no on and off piece, youcan just, you take a lift up,
and you can ski whatever youwant. Like, if you want to go on
the trees, you can go on thetrees if you don't want to. And
you could ski across the wholemountain, side to side. Super
cool. Um. One of my favoriteplaces I've skied before, and,
like, absolutely beautiful aswell. It's just, I don't know I

(01:15:08):
I don't ski as much as I usedto. Maybe I'll ski once a year
with kids. It's tough. Theynever started skiing. It's
expensive. But I feel like,like, every time I get back out
skiing again, it's scary. Forthe first little bit. I'm like,
this is sketch,
gotta get your ski legs back,about two
legs, like roof legs, roof,feet, I

(01:15:31):
don't know, like I said, it'sjust, it's one of those I look
forward to that week where Ijust get away and kind of unplug
and get up in the mountains. AndI mean, if you, if you've done
it, you know what I'm talkingabout. If you haven't, I
encourage everyone to give it ago, because it's beautiful out
there. You
know, I forgot that youmentioned also, now that I'm
looking to kind of close thingsout, is that didn't you get your

(01:15:52):
pilot's license? I did, tryingto. I did. So why anymore? Or
No, no,
it's a very expensive hobby.Yeah, yeah, no. So through a the
high school I went to, they hada ground school you could take
the I grew up, when I saybuilding stuff, I mean, I was

(01:16:12):
really into the remotecontrolled RC airplanes and cars
and boats, you know, the gaspowered stuff. So, like, from
third, fourth grade on, I was,you know, building, you know,
model airplanes. And so that'sreally where my interest took,
you know, you know, took off andin terms of aviation. And then
there was an airport down thestreet from my house that was

(01:16:33):
looking for line crew summer. Sosmall, little local airports do
a lot more volume or business inthe summer months, and they take
on some part time. Help. Timehelp. So I went on in this is my
freshman, sophomore year of highschool, and I was still doing
some lawn care at the time aswell, but I was working there
part time, doing line crew,basically fueling airplanes,

(01:16:55):
washing wax and airplanes, andthen on weekends, I'd work the
front desk, you know, collectthe money for them. But
everything I made there I wasspending trying to get my wings,
get my pilot's license. So whichI did do, just after my 18th
birthday, got about 125 hours,and quickly realized that it's,

(01:17:17):
it is a very expensive hobby,yeah. And as much as I loved it,
it's just not something I'vecontinued, but it was great
experience, and just that,again, that the knowledge and
education that came with goingthrough that process is pretty
cool.
Did you ever, sorry, Nick, didyou ever see the old arts? Well,

(01:17:39):
they're not RC planes, but like,where they would fly them on
strings in a circle.
Oh, that's where I started.That's
all right. I didn't want to,like, date you, because, like, I
know they're old, but there'ssome guys that I know who are,
like, into built like, you couldbuild them yourselves, or you
could get kits. And I'd neverseen them before. But then I
went to, like, where we ridedirt bikes, and they were out in

(01:18:00):
the field, flying them around ina circle. So it like, if I were
to explain to somebody, and I, Iexplained this to him, and he
actually got like, bent out ofshape that I I compared it to
this. But like to me, it kind oflooked like you're flying a
kite, but there's an RC planewith like a prop on the end of
it. You have like two stringsright in the plane. You start

(01:18:23):
the motor, and then it you, youjust go in a circle, like,
around and around. And I toldhim that, like, as I was telling
him that I explained it to mydaughter once, and he's like,
yeah, it's not really like akite at all. And I was like, I
don't need to insult you, butthat's what it looked like to
me.
Well, I assume they're still outthere. I mean, this is going to
age, but, but back in the 70s, Imean, they call them control

(01:18:44):
lines, yeah. And, you know, theyused to have just a little
handle, two strings that wouldgo and attach the the airplane
and Cox engines. They were realsmall, little nitro engines. And
again, I grew up on a cul desacs. We had a little circle at
the end of our, you know, ourdriveway, and you would just
stand in the middle of themiddle of the circle, and this
thing would just go in circles,and it's so loud, and just it

(01:19:05):
would go up and down and that.But that's where it started. You
know, I was, I mean, I probably789, years old when we were
playing with those things. Andit just graduated from there to
the, you know, I call it thereal deal, where you got the
remote control and the biggerengines and but when I say, age
me, I remember in grade school,I went to a Catholic grade

(01:19:26):
school, first through eighth.And, you know, remember science
fair projects? Yeah. So I wasalways, you know, bringing the
the engines in and things likethat, and doing those for
science for projects. But I, youknow, this would never fly
today, but I would literally luglike a 63 inch wingspan airplane
to school, a gal a gallon ofgastro, amazing. Yeah, no, it

(01:19:47):
was Nitro. But, you know, itsaid gasoline with a pump, and
it would sit over there at thecorner of the classroom, and
then recess, you know, if Iwasn't playing kickball or
whatever, I take my plane out.And, you know. Teach all the
kids how to fly this thing atrecess. But so I was really into
it. And like I said, that ledto, you know, my first, actually

(01:20:08):
second sophomore, junior year,working at that airport. But I,
like,
still, I had a nitro RC car whenI was little. I, like, mowed a
bunch of lawns, saved a bunch ofmoney, and the smell of like the
Nitro when they were flying theplanes, I was like, Oh, my God.
That brings me back to when Iwas, like, 12 years old. It has

(01:20:29):
a very, very distinct spell. Ican't imagine flying them in a
cul de sac, though, with like Ithat would have, I'm sure the
parents were like, Jesus Wayne'sgot the freaking plane out
again, because it's just like,every time it goes around,
there's so loud. Well,
the control lines we would dothere, once we got into the
bigger planes, we'd go out to abig field, yeah, you know, like

(01:20:53):
the control lines are just like,non stop. Every five seconds you
get the plane just flying by. Soloud. That's funny though. Yeah,
I, I've seen them twice, and hewas, he was told me about him.
He's like, Yeah, just a superold, like, antique, antique RC
planes before. They obviouslyhad radio control planes. But I
didn't want to date you and say,have you seen these before? But

(01:21:15):
I'm glad that you did, and Idon't look like I'm crazy. Yeah.
And I would assume they're stillout there, but don't,
yeah, sure. I think that there'speople who are, like, Die Hard
hobbyists with them. So the lastquestion I have for you, you've,
you've experienced a fair amountof life, right? You've taken
risks, you figured out your pathin life. You mentioned you've

(01:21:39):
had a handful of really terriblelosses. But what matters the
most to you now, at this stageof the game, where you are in
life, I
would say, like I said, I'm 53for the record, been at V Lux,
26 years, settled in. I've got awonderful girlfriend that lives

(01:22:01):
with me, been together a littleover three years now, just
committed to we got a coupledogs now, so we're thinking
about settling down, which is,you know, a big step for a guy
like me. That's, yeah, you know.And like I said, I've been
single off and on, but, youknow, looking at that, that next
step possibly. But you know,it's life passes you by really

(01:22:29):
fast. Yeah, and careers pass youby really fast. I feel very
fortunate to have landed at awonderful company that values
its employees, that builds greatproducts that are useful to
society, that, you know, I canfeel good about what I'm out
talking about and preachingabout every day. And you know,

(01:22:51):
what's moving forward for me? Ithink what's I'm going to call
it work, life balance early inmy career, part of it's the
traveling. You know, having as adistrict manager, I was
responsible for six states. I'mnow in a new role, actually, as
of about a year and a half ago,where I have more territory.
I've actually got 15 states, butI'm working exclusively with

(01:23:14):
skylight specialists. So I wentfrom, you know, a number of reps
working with all kinds ofcustomers to really focus in on
our best customer base in termsof specialists that live and
breathe skylights, and workingwith them to be more efficient
at what they do, more effectiveat what they do. It's a two part

(01:23:35):
role. One is helping themdevelop their businesses to
where they're running asuccessful skylight specialist
business, and then tworecruiting new specialists in
areas where we still need andthere's a number of markets and
cities where we still don't havea specialist. One of the biggest
challenges we have at Velux iswe generate, we spend millions
of dollars in advertisinggenerating interest for

(01:23:57):
skylights. If you just if youwatch HGTV, for example, you'll
see that we're involved in allof their major projects, and it
generates a lot of consumerinterest. And you know, they may
reach out to their roofer,remodel or builder, and
depending on, you know, wherethey're at with skylights, they
may or may not support thatconsumer getting that product,

(01:24:18):
which is unfortunate, because,you know, and so we welcome the
opportunity to work with moreroofers for modelers and
builders. But one of the thingswe're trying to do is build out
a skylight specialist network,where, when that consumer goes
to our website and says, youknow, I want to add a sun
tunnel. I want to add askylight, they're not calling,
you know, a roofer necessarily,that says, Well, do you need a

(01:24:38):
new roof with that? Yeah, youknow. And then if they don't, it
can be a kind of a dead end.It's where we have, we have
certified roofers, certifiedremodels, certified builders and
specialists out there on ourwebsite that these guys, these
consumers, then can, you know,reach out and actually have a
good experience getting gettingour product installed, and get.

(01:25:00):
And install them in a good way.Yeah,
I think that's super important,especially with what you do,
because at the end of the day,like, it's similar to windows,
where you get a bad rap if itleaks and it's your fault,
right? It's vlex is fault, whereit's like, it's not. So you have
to ensure that you are aligningwith people who understand what
they have to do to dial thatinstall so that that's not

(01:25:23):
coming back and looking bad onyour end. And I think that
that's somewhat of the path andthe key to growth, to make sure
that you're protecting yourselfand you're protecting your
clients, and just, you know,creating a good image around
what you're doing,
yeah, but back to your initialquestion. Like I said, I

(01:25:45):
thoroughly enjoy my career ofeloc, so I don't see any changes
pending there. I'm 26 years in.I hope to retire, impressive,
and it's not that unique of ELx,quite honestly, there's the
gentleman that hired me retiredafter 32 years, yeah, and we
have a number of folks that are3035, years with the company. I
get. One of our biggestchallenges, actually, is, you

(01:26:07):
know, our sales force is aging,and there's a lot of guys like
me out there. And you know, weneed those new up and comers to
join us and hopefully carry onthe torch. But, you know, I, I
do hope that I can put inanother, you know, 710, years

(01:26:29):
with this company, retire andthen really get back. You know,
that work life balance. Yes, Isaid, this new role affords me a
little bit more opportunity todo that than my previous role as
a manager with direct reportsand employees, and I'm just more
focused. I'm not just pulled inso many different directions.
Yeah,
hopefully you get a chance tostart reading the encyclopedia.

(01:26:49):
Sam,
I don't rush on that, but acouple other things I would like
to share just with the group.Yeah, absolutely. So a little
bit about Velox. If you're notfamiliar with the company, the
name Velux, I'm curious if youfellas know where it originates.
Do not ve for ventilation andLux, the Latin word for light,

(01:27:11):
ventilation and light. So did Inever guess that. Yeah. And like
said, it's a unique company, allthe way down to the naming.
We're a third generationprivately held, family owned
business, but the majority ofthe shares and the ownership is
owned by a charitablefoundation, the villain Conrad

(01:27:32):
Musin Foundation, and I do liketo share that so you know, when
consumers out there are buyingour products. Contractors are
using our products. A lot of theprofits that are generated from
those purchases goes back intocharitable getting, which,
again, I think it's a uniquesetup in the way that we're

(01:27:55):
structured. We just celebrated50 years here in the United
States, April 4, 50 years ago,yeah, first started selling roof
windows here in the UnitedStates, and so that's kind of a
big deal. We're currentlydistributing over 40 countries.
So you know, we are the world'sleader in skylights and roof

(01:28:16):
windows. And this year, we'redoing something kind of
innovative. We're all aboutvalue, right? We've launched
something called the skylightsystem, and as of the seventh of
April here, just last week, welaunched what we're calling the
skylight system. And we'vealways sold a system which is

(01:28:36):
right, the skylight, theflashing kit. But in the past,
shades or blinds were anadditional item, electronic
controls and things were an addon item. And what we know from
research is the the fact of thematter is, if a consumer gets a
skylight with electroniccontrols, you know whether it be

(01:28:58):
a vending sky that they can openat the touch of a button versus
getting out the old crank
rod. I was just thinking aboutthat as you were talking and
we've done research into this.You know, they don't get used as
much, but when you can just pusha remote control, they get used
regularly. And then theimportance of shades, and shades
bring a lot of value. And in thepast, they were optional, and

(01:29:21):
it's an it's amazing. You know,our shade ratio, it's paying out
where you're at in the country,was 10 to 20% or so. But when
our reps were involved, and wekind of learned this through
COVID, you know, during COVID,obviously the the world shut
down. And instead of laying offour employees, we said, hey, how
can we keep our salespeoplebusy? And we quickly adapted to

(01:29:45):
the situation by saying, hey,let's, let's have our reps do
consultations, virtualconsultations. And so we put out
there for consumers andcontractors, anybody that really
wanted to talk to us that, hey,you know, if you're considering
skylights, you know, here's aopportunity. Engage with an
expert of Elex, you know,representative. And when we got

(01:30:06):
involved in those projectsfirsthand, and most of our
experience prior to that wasworking, calling on the trades
and with COVID, we startedconnecting directly with the
consumer. And we're saying,Yeah, I've been thinking about
adding, you know, skylights tothis remodeling project, whether
it be kitchen, bath and they,you know, our reps would kind of
handhold. That project fromstart to finish, a lot of times,
putting them in touch with acontractor, because they had

(01:30:27):
struggled even find one thatwanted to, you know, maybe do
skylights. But what we found isour venting ratio increased
significantly, our shade ratio.And when I say significantly, I
mean it would go from 20 30% upto 70 plus percent, our shade
ratios would jump from that 10to 20% up to 70 80% Wow. And

(01:30:48):
once the consumer wasknowledgeable on the benefits,
you know, the of the shade,whether it be light control, the
energy efficiency gains andwhatnot, they would they would
select it. They would go withit. So as of April 7 this year,
we are rolling out the skylightsystem where all standard glass
skylights from V locks our deckmount and per mount products

(01:31:08):
will come standard with anintegrated shade. And in the
past, that was an add on optionthat you'd pay, you know,
upwards of 450, $500 for nowthat it's integrated as part of
our production process, thatcost has been significantly
reduced, so we're adding a lotmore value to the product with

(01:31:28):
this introduction. So, and
that's just the standard movingforward. That's not like you
guys are running a special thatjust that is that's amazing.
That
is correct. And it's not thefirst time we've, we've kind of
done this. I mean, I like to,I'm from the Midwest, so bear
with me on the car analogy, ifyou think about it, back in the
70s and 80s, you know, if youbought a car, you know, do you
want power windows? Do you wantan automatic Do you want

(01:31:51):
intermittent wipers? You know,you'd have all these add ons,
and now today, it just comesstandard, right? You get power
windows, you get, you know,intermittent wipers, you know,
almost a backup camera. Now,backup cameras sunroofs closer
to home. I mean, they're prettymuch just standard. So we're
kind of taking a page out ofthat book, if you will, because

(01:32:12):
it makes sense. It gives aconsumer a better skylight
experience. Soon improves theenergy efficiency significantly.
So it's a, you know, a newdirection we're taking this
year, and I think it brings alot of value to the product.
Yeah, absolutely. I feel likethat totally changes the game.
And I think that, like you said,it's one of those things where

(01:32:34):
if you give them the option Alot of times, and the car
analogy is perfect, where it'slike, if I were given the
option, I mean, I just bought anexcavator, and if I were given
the option for some of thefinishes they put on it, I
probably would have said no, butwhen I went there and it was all
fit out like that, I was like,Yeah, give it to me, yeah. And
much better product, to behonest. So I think that that's

(01:32:56):
definitely the move and theright way to go, because at the
end of the day, when you, whenyou amortize the cost of that
upgrade over the lifespan ofthat skylight, it's pennies. It
makes sense
well, and actually it's the Imean, the insulation guys that
sell insulation are pretty goodat this. I mean insulation and

(01:33:19):
upgrading your windows anddoors, right? Improving your
energy efficiency of yourenvelope are the few
improvements you can make toyour home that actually pay for
themselves over time. And thesame is true with skylights. And
we use a very energy efficientwe use Cardinal Lowey 366 glass.
So you know the glass, it'sstill dual pane. It's laminated.

(01:33:40):
It's very energy efficient. It'smost energy efficient. Dual pane
glass you can really buy today,right? So the shades are, you
know, partly about controllingthe light when you want, which
is nice, but still, glass is theweakest point in a building's
envelope, and by adding thatshade, you're increasing the U
value by about 45% Yeah, soreheat gain by 18, 19% or so. So

(01:34:04):
there's still significantsavings to be had by having that
shade on there.
Yeah, that's awesome. That'sreally cool. I'm excited to see,
see what's in store.
Wait. We appreciate not only youbeing on the podcast, but Velux
being a partner to the podcast.It's you guys have been great,
and you've certainly supported alot of our projects in the last

(01:34:27):
decade of doing this. And youknow, like I mentioned earlier,
it's one of those things thatit's kind of standard for us. We
see the value in bringing innatural light. And as you say,
you know, you know, ventilatedair. But we appreciate you.
Well,
hey, we appreciate theopportunity to be on and
congratulations to you guys forthe success you've had with the
podcast. Like I said, I've had achance to listen to quite a few

(01:34:50):
episodes, and I think you guysbring a valuable service to the
industry. Your open mindedformat and the topics you dig
into, you're really edgy.Caving, I'll call it the traits.
And some of this stuff was thisknowledge that you guys are
sharing, as you guys know, itwas hard to come by when you're
out there, you know, trying togrow a business in this

(01:35:11):
industry. And so thank you forwhat you guys are doing and
continued success.
Yeah, absolutely. It was really,it was really great to meet you,
and it was very interesting tohear and read and see your whole
story. So I appreciate all theinsight.
You're very welcome. And ifanyone is trying to get some

(01:35:32):
additional insights on Velox,please reach out to us. Velux
usa.com, is our domesticwebsite, and through there, you
can reach out and get a hold ofyour local representative, and
we'd love the opportunity towork with anybody that's
interested in learning moreabout skylights.
And then we'll get you Wayne'snumber, because he's only he
said seven more years. So wegotta get we gotta flood him for

(01:35:53):
the next seven years. All right,Wayne, we appreciate your time.
All right. Thank you, fellas,thanks,
I, I really enjoyed his wholebackstory. Not everyone get to
see his whole backstory, butjust like soup, I don't you were
flying through it. I was like, Ithere was so many points, but I
was just letting you roll. I waslike, there's so much here.

(01:36:14):
Yeah, I
mean, there's just a ton. Andhe, he just provided us with so
much insight. And I think thatthat's what we've been looking
to do, just to dig into more,more of the the human side of
the business, and less of thetransactional aspect. Obviously,
he is. He works for Velux, whichis a partner of ours. So if you

(01:36:36):
have any needs for skylights orquestions, we can put everyone
in touch again. Vluxusa.com butjust super cool to hear his
story and how much he providedus, how much insight and backlog
he gave us, or backstory to hisupbringing, what, what
introduced him to the trades,how he got started, his path

(01:36:56):
into this industry, and it was avery indirect path that took him
to where he is today, but at thethe end of the day, you look
back and it all makes sense, andit all worked out. So I
appreciate him taking the timeand really just sharing his
story with us. I
think I mean on that note, youknow, if someone's listening to
this and stuck in a job or justunsure of what their path might

(01:37:19):
be, you know, what would youwant to say to them? I think
that's something that you cantake away from this episode,
right, thinking about, you know,how can you support someone that
you know might be in thatposition?
Did I lose you? No, sorry. Iwas,

(01:37:40):
he went dead quiet. I was, I
was looking at the intro, andthen when it got really quiet
for a while, I was like, I feellike he wanted me to bounce
back.
That's okay. Well, no, I think,to wrap it up, you know, there's
a few things that I think cameout of this podcast that being
one of them. But also, if you'veseen the long game, you've taken

(01:38:01):
risks, you've grieved losses,found new meaning. You know, a
prompt that we would give you isto sit and think about what
matters most to you now. And Ithink, you know, we kind of
touched on it with, obviously,the loss of Wayne's brother,
which is terrible. But you knowhow that perspective can bring,
you know, new meaning to life,and you know, really allows you

(01:38:23):
to focus on what matters themost. But yeah, thank you to
Wayne for being open and honest,and you know in the why behind
the work that really matters. Sowe appreciate you guys
listening. As always. Head overto modern craftsman.co, make
sure you sign up for ournewsletter. You're getting way
more than just this episode. Inthe the inside look at each

(01:38:47):
episode, but I share some morein depth and transparent
thoughts Monday morning. It'sbecoming my new favorite thing
to do, and you guys have beenamazing with some feedback. But
if you want, if you want aninside look at that, you got to
sign up For the newsletter.Yeah, we'll see you next week.

(01:39:22):
You I trust my mama. You're nomatch for my bad karma. You.

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#358 Wayne Feltman Shares What Most People Get Wrong About Skylights

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