A Blueprint for Building with the Best Architects with Brady Fry

Episode Transcript
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Nick Schiffer (00:00):
Tyler. Welcome back to the modern craftsman

(00:05):
podcast and the chipper withobviously my co host, Tyler.
Today, we have a guest whoembodies the philosophy of
craftsmanship, tradition andthoughtful home building. And
he's someone who doesn't justbuild homes. He builds classics.
Brady fry is the man behind fryclassic homes in Nashville. He's
joining us today, and if you'rein the world of custom home

(00:26):
building, you know that Brady'swork isn't just about
construction, it's about legacy.He's got deep roots in
Nashville. His approach blendstimeless architecture with
modern innovation, creatinghomes that feel like they've
been standing for 100 years, yetfunction for the way we live
today. Brady is someone thatrecently shot me a DM and wanted

(00:47):
to open up the conversationabout working with elite
architects and what struggles hefaced in order to accomplish
that. And I think a lot of youwill really benefit from this
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How's it going? Pretty good, man. How are you?

Brady Fry (03:53):
These are glaring, bad, good, just it's about as
nasty the day as we get here inNashville, so not a lot to do,
but hang out in the office. So

what is cold, huh?

Brady Fry (04:06):
Man, in Nashville, it's so wet and humid that it's
just like chilly to the bone. Ithink. Yeah. Now, why is this
not working? I just put this on.Do Not Disturb because all my
stuff starts going crazy.

Is that you, my wife, just text me at the same
exact time. Hold on. Let me makesure.

Brady Fry (04:26):
Do not disturb, right. Focus on. I shouldn't be
getting,

yeah, might not be you.

Hold on. It shouldn't be me. I got mine on
now, maybe

it's, maybe it's mine. I usually don't mine
usually doesn't come through mycomputer, though, because I
never put Do Not Disturb on,yeah, people don't understand
that about we just had, uh,like, a cold, a cold spell, I
don't know, a couple of weeksago, where it was down in the
teens, and then it got intosingle digits, but it was so dry
that it it was like, fine, itwasn't terrible. And then it.

(05:00):
Again, it can be like, 30 to 40and just moisture in the air,
and it's so raw and bitter coldthat I'm like, I'd rather take
seven with no relative humidityor moisture in the air any day
of the week. Yeah, cold

Brady Fry (05:13):
is fine. We can dig. We've got some houses coming out
of the ground. It's all fine,frozen, no problem for an
excavator. But this muddy, wetstuff. And we've got some
architects in town doing designwalks today, and I'm sure, I'm
sure they're going to be short

probably. Are you from Nashville? Nope,

Brady Fry (05:36):
I moved here, gosh, over 30 years ago to go to
Belmont. I'm 53 I visitedNashville when I was 15. I
thought it's the coolest placeever. I said I'm going to move
here as soon as I can. And Imoved here when I was 19. So
cool. Where'd you move from? Imoved from Louisville, Kentucky,
but I moved around a lot as akid. I grew up mostly in Dallas,

(06:00):
Texas, and then SouthernIllinois, and then my parents
moved back to Louisville,Kentucky, my junior year of high
school. So I did my last twoyears of high school in
Louisville, went to a coupleother schools before moving here
to Nashville, I guess after mysophomore year in college. And I
love it, I'm not going anywhere.

You still love it. I mean, it's changed recently,
right?

Brady Fry (06:22):
I love it. It's changed so much. And I was
actually talking to a long time,you know, a native nashvillian,
which, there's not that many ofthem. And I said, Nashville,
it's two different cities. Itwas super gritty and kind of
homespun and local color when Imoved here and and now it's, you
know, we got, you know, sportsteams and world class

(06:43):
restaurants and hotels and and Isaid, which do you like best? I
like them both. I said, Man, Ilike both cities. I loved gritty
Nashville, but I also lovehaving great restaurants,
hotels, professional sports, thewhole thing. And he said, I love
New Nashville, which I was kindof surprised a lot of people who
are here longer, they want tokeep it to themselves. And you

(07:03):
know, also, man being in thebuilding industry like there
it's in the top handful of like,best places that you could be,
which you can't. You know, Inever undervalue that. I've
tried to make some gooddecisions. But, you know, I
always say, if I was in Decatur,Illinois, it probably really
wouldn't matter to build it's

also like, if you got in, you were there for so
long beforehand, I think that alot of people struggle where
they're like, I want to be here,but now it's so unaffordable.
Yeah, where if you were therebeforehand, it it? You want to
complain about it, but at thesame time, it probably has made
you so much money that it'slike, Can I, can I actually

(07:44):
right? Be upset about this?

Brady Fry (07:46):
Yeah, and if you get in, you get to stay in. The
hardest part getting in, right?And if you've ever traveled to
Nashville, there's a, you know,really hot area. Right after
college, I bought a house in thearea called 12 South and they
said this is going to be thehottest neighborhood in
Nashville. And I was like, okay,so I bought a house for 65 grand

(08:06):
to help there is, like, ifsomething's terrible and
basically uninhabitable, it's amillion dollars. Yeah, right. I
bought a lot and then built ahouse I was going to move into,
but ended up selling like, fivehouses down from that for 3.2
million in, you know, like,it's, I mean, it's just a

(08:26):
completely different world, so,but I love it. I love it. You

know, it's bad when tear downs are a million plus,
good or bad, depending on

your first Yeah, I mean, it's, that's what,
that's what we're here, like,that's what we're doing in
Boston. It's like, everything. Imean, we're buying, like, I'm
watching people. I mean, ourwhite oak project was $1.9
million yeah, it's like, andtear down. It's, I've been to
Nashville twice, and once wewent out to leapers fork, which,

(08:56):
if anyone knows leapers fork,they know how cool it is. And
anyone that doesn't has no ideawhat they're missing out on out

Brady Fry (09:03):
there right now, the billionaires are pushing out the
millionaires. Like, it's that

we were in the middle of nowhere and we're
staying in this house. And I'llnever forget I was we always
pull up Zillow and like, see thehome values valuations. And my
wife's like, Nick look at thelook at how much this house is
worth. I'm like, where are we?And in Libras fork, it's like
they have this little, tiny,it's not even a grocery store,

(09:30):
but basically a grocery

Brady Fry (09:31):
store. I eat lunch there about once a week. Oh,
really, yeah, so,

and then the next door is like a house that they
converted into, like an eighttable restaurant. And we went
there, and Mike Wolf and KidRock are sitting at the table
next to us. And then we leavethere, and we go, and they're
like, Oh, you got to go over thegrocery store. I'm like, What
are you talking about? And thenit turns into a basically a
band, like they put a stage,they move all the gallon cans of

(09:57):
beans out of the way, andeveryone's there partying till
three. In the morning, Kid rocksand stage singing. It's it was
such a bizarre place to be, butthat's my that's my experience
in Nashville.

Brady Fry (10:07):
I've got a really good project out there. I like
working out there. I mean, mostthe time I've been in Nashville,
I've literally worked in about asix mile radius, you know, kind
of around the urban core. Andnow we're starting to push out
farther into Williamson County,and in leapers. Leapers is about
40 minutes to my office. Yes,like people are building. When I
get calls out there, it's likewe're building a family
compound. So, yeah, house,party, barn, sometimes,

(10:30):
agricultural buildings. This guythat we're working for now is
doing a sometimes, I'll have toshare once, once we get
photography, like the gardenshe's building like they're just
impeccable. And he's doing allthis, you know, it's not, I'm
trying to think the standardhe's trying to tame for his
garden, but this pristinegarden, and he sells vegetables

(10:54):
out there, and he does pigs.He's a former tech executive,
and now he's turned into man,like off the grid. You know,
we've got solar array and 40,000gallons of propane, and it's
just amazingly beautifulproperty. So, yeah, but leapers,
the thing about leapers, Ithink, is funny, when people
been there, it is beautiful, butit's completely curated,

yeah?

Brady Fry (11:14):
Like they know exactly what they're doing.

Yeah, we were there. I think it was the first
or second week of December. Sothey had their Christmas Parade,
which, like the mayor ofleapers, for Tyler, is Kid Rock,
oh, really, just like he'ssitting on the front of a
Cadillac with bull horns, likein the parade and, and, I mean,
again, like we have no ideawhere we are, like, we're just,

(11:39):
like, we end up, you know, MattTroyer was the one that put the
together, this, this, yeah, thisvacation. And I'm like, where
are we? And it was like, thenext then the next day was,
like, a food fest. The wholestreet shut down, and everyone's
like, making barbecue. And I'mlike, I don't know where we are,
but this place is amazing. Like,everything about it, like, this
is the not what I expected. I

Brady Fry (12:00):
don't know if you follow Steve and Brooke
gianetti. Giannetti is aprominent architect that was on
the West Coast. And then Brookegianetti, she has patina, is her
into your firm, and then sheopened up, but they visited
leapers. Gosh, it's probablyabout 12 years ago, they

(12:22):
designed a project that's like,the most expensive project in
Tennessee. And they, they loveleapers for so much they moved
from the West Coast, and she's,you know, those little cute row
of houses right there, and kindof Main Street leapers. She's
got her now and then. I haven'tworked with them yet, but, you
know, like they came there andfell in love with it and moved

(12:43):
all their farm and animals andall their stuff to to leapers.
So it's definitely, it'sdefinitely a special place.
Funny

how people who are, like, affluent and well off try
and just create this simplelifestyle where it's like, yeah,
I want to farm. And I saw some,that's what I was trying to look
up online. I saw it online whereit's like, You got to love
farmers markets when you cut outthe middleman, but like, produce
is still more money. It's likeyou're going straight to the

(13:11):
source, and now you're paying 2xwhat it would be. I feel like
there's so many communities likethat, where I feel like that's
everyone's dream, right? Is to,like, make enough that you can
have this simple lifestyle,yeah? And, like, that's what
people do once there'sbackwards, like, massively
successful. It's, like, Allright, now I want to settle down

(13:33):
and, like, live a quiet life.Yeah,

it's funny. We got a client call this week,
actually, and we were talking,it's, it's very much a compound.
He wants a massive garage. Hegoes, Oh, and also, I want a
farm. Yeah,

that's like, you could just be poor and have a
farm. That was

like, like, how did you almost forgot about
that? Like, that's big part. Um,Brady, I'm gonna read something
that you sent to me in January,because it's a big topic that
I'd love to dig into. What youwrote. You wrote to me and said,
I've been thinking aboutbuilders that aspire to work
with elite architects, and I wasthinking about how much time it

(14:07):
has taken me. Obviously,everyone is unique, and may
never work with elite designteams, or may work with them
much faster than I did. But Ithought I would share a couple
from my business. And you know,it's something that I think you
and I have chatted on and off.Your message goes on, and I'll
spare the poor job of readingit, but typos. But, you know, I

(14:33):
think that that is such aninteresting topic that comes up
constantly, and I want your yourfeedback on it. And I'll start
with, you know, something thatyou end up alluding to towards
the end of your message about,you know, partnering with people
that are at similar stages inyour career, and something like,

(14:57):
you know, you look at ofpossible and us, where. We're
we're basically have been inbusiness at the same amount of
time, and we're both trying todo the same thing, but on the
opposite sides, we're bothtrying to build elite products,
and they're struggling to getelite builders. And we want to
build elite products, and we'restruggling to get in with elite
architects. And it's like, Well,why don't we just work together
and become one? And, you know,and I think the one of the

(15:20):
strongest examples of that islike Olson, coondig and
doublall, and they have this,you know, the synonymous brand
that they work together. But itis, it is. It's this challenge,
like we, you know, I'll say fromexperience, it's, you know, I've
chased some of the toparchitects in Boston for years

(15:40):
and years and years and yearsand years, and it's like, you
know, sometimes it just nevercomes to fruition, and for one
reason or the other, you know,yesterday I had a conversation
with one that I've been chasingfor years. I have, they have a
project that needs a builder,and I was like, let us price.
And they're like, you're goingto be too expensive. And I was
like, I will find a way to makethis work, because I want to

(16:02):
work with you guys, and theywould not allow me to price the
job like entire teams, like no,like we were instructed not to
send you the drawings. Like,this is not the right project
for you. So I'm just, I'd lovefor you to share your story into
like, what kind of, for lack ofbetter terms, catapulted you
into the ability to build such,you know, amazing projects with

(16:25):
great architects. Well,

Brady Fry (16:27):
I think, like most people, and you know, again, I'm
53 so you start thinking aboutwhat went right and what went
wrong, and if I went back, whatdecisions would be validated as
good at the time, and whatthings would I do different? So
you just start kind of analyzingthe good decisions you made and
the bad decisions, and kind oftry to put those in context. And

(16:49):
so one thing I can tell you isnobody knew less about
construction than I did. So interms of, like, when we look at
construction, we look at twoseasons where we go, Hey, here's
like, my formative training, youknow, like, I gotta learn, like,
what I'm doing. Like, how do Ibuild things? So I didn't have a
mentor. I'm not secondgeneration. Like, you want to

(17:11):
talk about the bottom of thebottom, like I used to say, I
didn't have electricians. I hadguys that knew how to do
electrical. Like, no subs hadinsurance. Like, funny story, I
went over to play. I had thisguy that sold me a house. I was
doing some flips at the time,and I said, Hey, you know what?
Tricia, yeah, I knowelectrician. His name is John,
and John was 40 years old. Livewith his mom, and I kept calling

(17:31):
John's mom, and I could neverget John to call me. John home.
Finally, John imagine like theWill Ferrell out of wedding.

Yeah, beat, love

Brady Fry (17:43):
rogue. And so finally he goes, Hey, man, he's at the
bar two o'clock every afternoon.So go over to Brown's diner.
Walk in there and just tell himyou're looking for John. He'll,
he'll be there. So I go overthere and I go, Hey, I'm looking
for John. This guy hits theceiling. I mean, he comes out of
the seat. I don't know if he hadwarrants or something, but like,
I was like, Oh, hey, no, sorry,area, No, I'm afraid of Danny

(18:04):
Murphy's. He just gave me yournumber, like he said, you know
how to do electrical work. Andtruthfully, I was probably would
have been intimidated fromhaving good subs, because it
would expose how little I knew.Yeah, having somebody who sucked
was a little bit comforting,because it didn't expose that I
didn't have any idea what thehell I was now. I was a Smart
enough guy, so once I learnedthings, I learned things, and I

(18:25):
scaled up. I kind of starteddoubling. I started buying
houses for 65 selling them for135, and then I started buying
houses for 200 putting a couple100 grand into them and selling
them for 750, 800 grand. So Idid kind of get on the track. So
then I was like, man, now here'sone thing that I think is kind
of key in my formation. I alwaysthought of myself as a builder,

(18:47):
not an investor. Where?

Well, how old were you when you started? Was it
like, right, when you moved downthere, or later on?

Brady Fry (18:54):
I bought my first house at 25 okay, right out of
college. So it was like 2025years ago, yep. And so then I
was just kind of fixing uphouses, you know, just working
on it. I mean, I did all thedumb stuff you can imagine,
going to tiles, tile seminars atHome Depot, and then laying my
tile like, I'm telling you, likeas low thigh as you could

(19:14):
possibly be. But when I started,when I did start, kind of
flipping these houses, I took alot of pride in them. And I
always say I built every projectthe best of my ability. Well, 25
years ago, I had a lot lessability I had now, but I did
have the same sense of prideand, like, conviction of, like,
I want this to be good. So Ieven look at stuff that I did in

(19:34):
like, oh four, and I'm like, waybetter now, but I'm not
embarrassed. I don't go in andgo, Oh my gosh, so embarrassing.
I can't believe I go better thanmost stuff you see out there
now, yeah, not nearly as good aswhat I built now. And so a
couple of the notes that I putfor you guys, because I wanted
to be prepared and offer someencouragement to you guys and

(19:56):
your audience is one of thethings even about. Working with
architects, until you get inwith the architects, all your
effort need to, needs to bearound getting the client like
you want to get the client andthen use the client to put
together the design team, right?So for me, much earlier my
career, I was like theRainmaker. I always, always kind

(20:19):
of liken it to Rocky, like I wasSylvester Stallone, like I had
to write my movie to be in mymovie, because nobody was going
to let me be in the movie. And Iwas like, crap, I'm hitting
these roadblocks, no, but noarchitect who's established we
even talked to me. The only wayI'm going to get through this is
I gotta write my own movie, andso I would get the jobs and then

(20:41):
use those as opportunities toopen doors with architecture.
Hey, I got this project. I thinkyou'd be a good fit. And through
that conversation, not on thefirst conversation, but after we
spent some time working throughthat project, I'd go, Hey, man,
I really enjoy working with you.What do you have that I could
take a look at and ask for thebusiness, you know, but I really

(21:04):
focused on owning the clientfirst, and then use that as my
ticket to get in with thearchitects.

I think that's really important, and a lot of
people lose sight of that. Butlike, for one, the reason you're
saying, but then also, I thinkthat it allows you to create
your system, your processes,follow your program and the
client's program, rather thangetting in bed with an architect
that doesn't do things the waythat you do. So like, if you can
build enough of a rapport withthem and say, This is how I

(21:33):
operate, these are my systems.And how can we integrate you
into my process? I think a lotof times ends up serving you
more than you realize. Becauseit's not like, Hey, I'm going to
throw a lead to an architect orwait for an architect to come
for me for a lead. Now I have toplay by their rules. I have to
bid this according to how theywant it done. It's like, no,

(21:53):
these are my systems. These aremy clients. These are this is
how I operate in order to besuccessful. How do you know?
Because this is what I've donefor so long,

Brady Fry (22:02):
and what you what you are describing there, is what I
actually call, I don't know ifanybody ever use this term, or
if I made it up. I haven't heardanybody say it, but I call it
the trust chair. They're on thatteam. Sometimes it's the
architect into your designer orthe builder that the client,
like they got the clients here,yeah, and it's not necessarily

(22:23):
the person who originated thejob. Sometimes I get the job,
they get some kind of coolfactor with the architect, and
it's like, man, they just listento whatever he says. Yeah,
you're

sitting in the back of the back of the car now
chair, but

Brady Fry (22:37):
I'm not always. You don't get to choose, but it's
nice when you can kind of be inthe trust chair. And so

it's funny, we I just interviewed for a pretty
big job, and the client, thearchitect, brought us in, but
they haven't. They just signedan agreement, an architect we've
worked with in the past, and theclients like so we understand
that during the design process,you know, the architect will be
our elite, like our leadcommunicator. But when, like,

(23:05):
Are you the lead communicationduring the build, or does that
torch stay with the architect?And what I think we're all
saying here is, you know, we, Imean, at least for me, we try to
be involved really early. And weare typically, you know, our
most successful projects, andmajority of our projects are the

(23:27):
client comes to us first, andthen we assemble the team, and
it supports what you're saying.Grady is in the sense that you
want to work with an architectlike you, bringing the architect
to the table is your best way inorder to essentially formulate
that. But I had told them I'mlike, No, I mean, truthfully,
even in the design process, youknow, we're going to be the one

(23:48):
carrying the torch. You knowyou're going to be communicating
with the architect the mostduring the design phase, like,
that's most. That's where all ofyour communication is funneling
too, where it's not comingthrough us. But ultimately,
we're the guiding light, youknow, you know, we have to be
the one that says, hey, you're,you're, that's going to be over
budget. We like, we're trying toget to a $5 million price point

(24:09):
and an 18 month build schedule,and what you're designing
doesn't fit those constraints.So, like, we're the one that has
to get you back on track. Andthen, of course, under
construction, you know, we wantthe the architect to be involved
in. Ca, but you know, we areultimately the, you know, we
continued with the torch, youknow, down to the completion of
the project. And that same exactquestion came up today, and in

(24:34):
the interview I was in prior tothis, which made me an hour late
to this podcast, but when Iexplained it, he's like, Yeah,
that makes a lot of sense. Youknow, I I obviously want this to
be designed a particular way,but I really want someone to be,
you know, in charge, like, Iwant to rely on someone that is

(24:55):
going to help me get to,ultimately, the end result. And.
And, you know, and on the flipside, thinking about every
project that we've ever beenbrought, you know, whether the
architect brings us a job or aclient comes to us with a
completed set of drawings, Ican't think of one project that
we've ever got at that stage,ever like it's, you know, that

(25:17):
we price the job, wow, you're $2million over budget. It's like,
I'm not over budget. Yeah, youdesigned a, you designed a
project that's $2 million moreexpensive than you thought.
Well,

Brady Fry (25:29):
you're getting to there's a little bit different
thing there, but I get 100% ofthe jobs that I bid because I
don't bid any jobs I don't have.And so that's a little bit
different. Well, right? Adifferent program. But

kind of like the way you said that, yeah, like my
clothes, you

Brady Fry (25:45):
know, and so on that. Though, one of the things that
about getting this, I think, isreally important, is that
architects, it doesn't matterhow big they are, Patrick Ahern
is still a small business. Hemight be an iconic East Coast
architect. He is still a smallbusiness at the end of the day.

(26:05):
And so these guys arepatronizing people that also
patronize them. And so one ofthe things that is really
important to me is, and itsounds like you have it, because
I had questions about yourrelationship with that possible,
because you do need to buildthis first and foremost, with
people that can help yousucceed, not somebody who's just

(26:27):
iconic, because one iconic buildis not going to change your
life. I built an iconic house in2012 I I've been told it's the
number one house on Pinterest. Ithought it was going to be is
about seven and a half millionin 2012 it probably cost me 15
million to build it now, maybe20 million. And I thought, Okay,

(26:48):
I just punched my ticket. Iproved what I can do. I'm in. I
was not in, damn it. And so, soyou get the iconic build. But
then so also with these guys andsome people I've had real
conversations with again, I'mpretty collaborative and like,
play nice guy, but like, ifsomebody can't handle a lead,
they get no leads from me. Icalled an architect that I like,

(27:09):
and I was like, Dude, you'regetting no more calls from me.
You don't know how to handle alead. So for instance, you know,
I go, I've got a good, you know,I've got a good lead on a job.
Kind of secured it, tethered itto me a little bit. I go, Hey,
here's some people I would liketo introduce you to. So then
they go over and introduce them.Sometimes people will go, Hey,

(27:30):
what are some other buildersthat I should be talking to
instead of Brady? Now let mereverse that question. I'll tell
you what I say. Becausesometimes architects send people
to me, and they go, Hey, I'm notnecessarily married to the
architect. Who would yourecommend? And I say, You know
what, man, Nick Schiffer, was sogracious to share my name with
you. I don't think I would bepaying his be very gracious

(27:53):
back. If I there's otherarchitects out there, you're
free to interview them, but outof my relationship with Nick,
I'm not gonna provide this,yeah, because I just think it's
now, occasionally, somebody'sout there talking to everybody.
You hear it. You hear fourbuilders that you know, go, man,
I got this great lead. They'reall talking about the same
house. If I get that thing'shappening with architects, I'll

(28:17):
let them know right off the bat.Hey, man, just so you know,
three other architects called meabout that job. I don't know
where it's going to land, but ifI know that's not the case, I'd
rather lose the job and save myrelationship with the architect
than the architect think that,you know, I hung on to the job
and they lost it. So if youcan't handle the lead, then

(28:39):
you're not getting any leadsfrom me. So also

did it. I don't mean to interrupt you, at what
point in your career did youhave enough confidence to do
that? Because that's not alwaysthe case.

Brady Fry (28:54):
Well, you know, I got to a point where I got really
frustrated. Because, you know,once you start having success,
and people start calling you andasking you how you do it, and
go, Oh man, the red carpet. It'slike, man, it's been it's been
harder, more than it's beeneasy. Yeah, now in a minute,
I'll read this quote to you. Iwas gonna say when I read this
to you, but I'll read it to you.And this is exactly my story. I

(29:15):
saw this on the inner onInstagram the other day. It
said, it said, it takes years,then it all happens at once,
every sacrifice, every smallwin, every late night, working
alone, they lead up to thatmoment. They all count, but you
can't see what, but you can'tsee what they're building until
it's done and over an overnight,Success takes 1000 nights. Yeah,
I felt like I was failing thewhole time in 2017 I went to the

(29:40):
guy that owns my lumber yard.And I said, Ray, I can't do it
anymore. I think I'm gonna quit.I'm not getting the projects I
want for whatever reason. Idon't know if I'm too middle
class. I just reek of like,middle class this. But I'm like,
the good architects don't acceptme. I'm just not getting there.
And I said, Man, I might dosomething else. I might like, I.
Build decks, or, like, be theworld's biggest drywall

(30:02):
contractor, like, just somethingand but, you know, I was broke,
I had a really tough customer.And I was like, man, I've been
broke and I've had toughcustomers. It's just hard to be
broke and have tough customers.And so I was about to quit, and
I had seen my pipeline fill upbefore. Like, I had one time I
had like these five great jobs,which, which we're all trying to

(30:24):
get to, by the way, we're tryingto move from like good build to
like good building business,like the business is when that
pipeline can just, you can justkeep refilling that pipeline,
and that's when you can staffup. That's when it really
happens. But all of us aregoing, I got a good build. Well,
now I got something that I don'tit's not my life's work, but I
got employees. I was still doingthat, and I thought, I was like,

(30:49):
I had these five builds, and Iwas like, Finally, it's
happening, man. Like all mydreams are coming true. No, I
didn't get to build any of them.I did not get to build any of
them. Like, here we go again. SoI remember I sit in my office
and I had three, I had, like,six, five, really good leads.
And I said, Man, I feel good.I'm gonna get two of these. Man,

(31:12):
if I get three, like, game on mystaff was still small, like a
couple of people, you know, it'sstill we were just kind of in
that, like, get a good projectevery now and then and then, do
whatever else in the meantime.Well, I end up getting all five.
By the time I got all five, Iwas just the guy. I mean,
overnight. I'm like, people arelike, well, you don't Brady's a

(31:34):
ten million guy. Don't callBrady and the ship 10 million
and it's never changed. And Igot my first bank of ten million
jobs, and I was like, Well, Idon't know. Was that just a one
run like did? All like did wasthis, like, the, the, you know,
you know, playing the slotmachines, and I hit the jackpot
once, and then I bankrupt. Andthen, like, I just kept being

(31:56):
able to refill that pipelineevery time. So, so

I want to go back. I want to, like, I want to
go back to that exact moment,but before where you lost the
five jobs that the ones that youdidn't get, yeah, like, what
was, you know, what changedafter that? Like, obviously, you
want to, you want to give up.You want to go be a big drywall

(32:20):
contractor, but like to go fromthat to then having a potential
pipeline of five great jobs.Like, what was, what were you
doing that led, like, led fromone to the other. Well,

Brady Fry (32:33):
there's a few things. I mean, even prior to that, I
would hear accolades, like, oh,Brady's the best builder in
Nashville. And I was like, Well,if I am, what's it worth?

Yeah, like, if this is

Brady Fry (32:44):
what's this title even worth? I'm, I mean, I was,
listen, I always made a goodliving. And that's what I mean.
Tell your people sometimesbefore you're living the dream,
you go, Hey, dude, is yourbusiness where Maya is maybe
not. You made 300 grand lastyear. Like, who you feeling
sorry for, like that puts you inlike, the upper tier of, like,

(33:05):
wage earning Americans. Andsometimes we see people that are
doing better, it feels like notfulfilling. But I was still
making hundreds of 1000s ofdollars, but I still wasn't
having that. I wasn't buildingprojects that I aspired to
build. I wasn't being acceptedby the peers that I wanted to be
accepted by. So I want to goback to something Tyler said so

(33:26):
well, one was, I let jobs justbe out on the street. Like, I
didn't have the pre conagreement to, like, tether
things to me and people that getamazed by the pre con agreement,
I could not get hired doing freeestimates. Like, I couldn't get
hired peers. You think you'redoing a favor, and you diminish
yourself so bad. And then oneguy was like, people would do it
then, oh yeah, somebody told meI'd be a fool not to talk about

(33:48):
so and so. And then they're thehot they're the bright, shiny
face. They don't think about theyear you spent trying to just,
you know, say yes to everything.So you got it. So when I got out
of that game was number one. Nowyou had a question about when I
had the confidence. I don't evenknow if it's confidence more
than it was frustration. Whereasthis guy, who's my biggest
advocate right now, and he's mystrongest professional

(34:11):
relationship, I've been workingwith him for about five years. I
still hadn't got a meaningfuljob, and most of the work we had
together was from me, not fromhim, but every time they would
get one of their flagship, youknow, publishable works, I go,
Hey, you know what's, what'sgoing on? What's going on with
that job? Oh, yeah, man, thatalready had a builder attached.
Okay? And I took them as facevalue, and I said, he's an

(34:34):
honest guy. And then I seeanother like, you know, Hey,
man, what's I saw? You gotanother killer job. Who's doing
that? Oh, builder attached. Sothen I was talking to one of my
subs, and he mentioned thisparticular architect building
his house, and another builderbuilding it. And I was like,
Wait, hold on, man, thanks.Okay, so I went to him, and I

(34:55):
just went. And it wasn't evenout of confidence. I had to know
who my allies were. Here. Ithought this guy was my ally,
and I went to him, and itactually made our relationship
better. I went to him, I said,Hey, listen, I hear that so and
so is building your home. Now Iknow, because we have some subs
in common what he's working on,and I know that I've given you

(35:19):
guys much more work than he'sbeen able to give you. So if you
intend to work with him, Ieither need to know why he's
more qualified to build thishouse than me, and if he made a
great argument, then I'd go,okay, he's more qualified, but I
know he wasn't. My body of workwas already much higher level.
Or while you're more interestedin preserving his relationship

(35:42):
more than you are in preservingmine. I thought were allies. If
we're not, I understand. I needto go find another ally. I can't
keep investing in thisrelationship, hoping it's going
to pay off, and then it doesn't.And he was like, man, and I
think we've all done this, bythe way. He said, You know what?
Man? One day I got run in mymouth about some of my personal

(36:02):
problems. I had my set of plans.He kind of looked at it. I
wished I'd never shown him. He'slike, you're absolutely right. I
need to call it and tell him I'mworking with you and so. But it
wasn't out of confidence. It wasout of like this, going, Hey,
man, if this guy's not my ally,I gotta find out, because I had
another relationship prior tothat, you know, I had a guy that

(36:23):
I was going to try to build mybusiness with, Nick like you are
with possible. I realized thisguy didn't want to do it. I was
like, Hey, he's the only guythat I know that shrunk. He had
three designers in 2010 I thinkhe's down to one. And I was
like, I don't, I don't thinkthis guy's going to do it. And I
had hitched my wagon so closelywith him. And people like, oh,

(36:46):
Brady's, Brady's, Brady's thatguy. He works with that guy. Oh,
yeah. And I think other guysdidn't want to work with me, and
and I had to, man, I had to,like, get away from it and go, I
mean, man, that train was stuckin reverse, and I was hitched to
it. It was a big problem.

The frustration thing is a really good point as
well, and I think it's veryrelatable for a lot of people,
because it takes thatfrustration to be able to
surmount the fear that you haveof, what if I do this, like,
what if I say, No, what if I putthis sub on the line, and he's
like, You know what? I'm notgoing to work for you anymore.
You were, you were too concernedwith, Hey, this is my sub. This

(37:27):
is the relationship I have. Ihad something like when I when I
moved into pre construction andnot doing free estimates, it was
the same thing. I was just sofrustrated with spending the
time for people to not even giveme so much as a thank you that I
was speaking to somebody downhe's a builder in Louisiana, and

(37:49):
he's like, why don't you justtell people that you're not
going to competitively bid jobs.And up until that point, I never
even entertained how to do that.It was, it was just so
frightening to me to say no topeople that I wouldn't entertain
that, but it got to the pointwhere I was just like, I'm
either going to stop doing thisor I'm going to tell people No.

(38:11):
And when I finally did that,it's the same thing as you like,
my business and my lifestylechange and like, I still had to
figure it all out. It wasn'tlike I said, I'm going to stop
putting jobs in my life and mybusiness changed. I had to
figure out how to navigate thatpath. But if it weren't for
being just so overly frustratedand taxed with the industry as a

(38:33):
whole, I don't know if I wouldhave made that shift.

Brady Fry (38:37):
I wish everybody would. I mean, you know, I'm
going to build her 20, and bothhere in town. And then my
builder 20, I kind of mentor alot of young guys, and they're
like, they're just blown I can'tdo it. I can't do it. I go, a
you can do it. And you know howmuch time I spend talking about
it? Zero. It's nobody. Nobodybrings it up. It's no big deal.

(38:59):
I go, Hey, man, it's really niceto meet you. You know, Hey, Nick
dollar, great to meet you guys.Listen, if you want to go to the
next step, let me give you acopy of my pre construction
agreement. And they all, theyall sign it. Yeah, they all,

everybody. Oh, I want to, because I want to
really focus on that for asecond, because I think what you
just said is, is incrediblyimportant to the process, is
that it's not a optional thing.It's just like, Yeah, this is
the next step. And I think that,you know, all anyone that's
listening to this, like,regardless if you do pre

(39:34):
construction or not, you know,there's so much that we frame to
a client that it's, Hey, here's,here's an option. Like, here's
an optional option. This isbased

on fear, right? You're afraid that you, of
course, that client might walkaway. So you're gonna be like,
Well, if you don't want to, wecould do this or, like, I think
that if you are eitherfrustrated enough or you have.
Enough confidence in yourbusiness and your systems that,
yeah, this is the next step. Andit's, it's very black and white,

(40:06):
right? It's very polarizing.It's either you take the next
step and sign the pre con or youdon't,

Brady Fry (40:11):
well, because we deceive ourselves and we think
that not getting a no is a yes.And how many times have we sat
there and go, Okay, I'm still inthe mix on this job. Yeah,
they're still sending me emails.And probably, if you were to
really be honest with yourself,you go, this isn't really
feeling like a good job, butjust because they didn't tell

(40:31):
you, No, you're like, hanging onto it because sometimes it's all
you got. I mean, we're sittingthere, you're fighting that
emotional battle. Is my businesswhere it wants to be? Are people
responding to my product, andwhat I tell people is, there's
two good outcomes and there'sone bad there's one two good
outcomes and one bad outcome.Getting a great job is a great
outcome, like, that's what we'reall here for. Not wasting time

(40:56):
for people who aren't going tohire you is a good outcome.
Yeah, but people don't see that.And I go, Oh, you didn't spend
20 hours on somebody who wasjust out there kicking tires.
Like, that's a great outcome,and not getting a bad job is
also a good outcome. So

to that point, like, and I think to tie it into
something you said before, it'slike, how can I complain I made
a few $100,000 this year, right?That still puts me in, like the
top few percent of the peoplein, like the general economy,
but that $300,000 looks a lotdifferent when you're providing

(41:33):
all of those 20 hours of unpaidtime versus, hey, that $300,000
is me working 40 hours a weekand not 80 hours a week, right?
And I think that when you moveaway from that, and you
structure your business to say,Okay, I made a few $100,000 and
I worked 40 hours a week, that'sa lot better than what most

(41:54):
people are doing to make two$300,000 where they're working
80 to 100 hours a week, youknow?

Brady Fry (42:00):
Yeah, that's why you should be paid. And there's a
structure it, but there's,there's all kinds of, like,
psycho dynamic things thathappen in terms of, like,
scarcity. Like, there's allthese triggers it does for
people. So I could spend twohours Steve talking about that,
like, scarcity, confidence,like, it just hits all those
endorphins when people aretrying to make a buying

(42:20):
decision. Do you sell

scarcity like, is that something that's in your
process?

Brady Fry (42:26):
Well, I don't really sell it as scarcity, which
you're going to touch on anothertopic I've been thinking a lot
about lately, but I do say likewe have, we only take as much
work as we have projectmanagers. We're very heavy on
our supervision, and so whenwe're full, we either have to
hire people or turn down work.Yeah,

well, that's, I mean, that's, that's selling
scarcity. Like, if you tellthem, like, if I have four
project managers, I'm onlytaking on four projects, like,
the people are more apt to bein, like, well, how many do you
have going on right now? It'slike, I have three. It's like, I
need to be four. I feel

like it's less of a marketing tactic to just more
matter of fact, though, right?Yeah, I'm not, I'm not saying

it's a market on that but, but it's like it is
part, I mean, Brady, to yourpoint, like it is part of the
reason people buy. Yeah, yeah,when there's a only certain
amount of them available, like,people are more apt to make a
decision, good or bad? Yeah?

Brady Fry (43:20):
So, yes, but I also like, I do more work. I probably
do triple the work of my twobiggest competitors. And I tell
but what? But again, that'sgreat, whatever. But I also tell
my customers, I have to sellthat in a way, like, hey, Our

(43:41):
strength is our size. That's whywe can provide all these extra
services. I can't provide thesame level of service if I'm
only building two houses. Soyeah, we're we usually have, you
know, seven or eight houses inproduction in various stages,
but that's why we can provideyou this expensive technology
that's prohibitive to mostresidential contractors. That's

(44:02):
why we have guys that can workfor us exclusively. That's why
we can maintain homes. That'swhy we can have a person in the
office that's handling all yourspecs and selections and
interacting with your designteam. Is because, if not, that's
why there's not some guy tryingto eat a ham sandwich and order
your windows on his lunch break.Is because we're doing it is

(44:26):
important to not your size bewhat your ego is, but you have
to communicate why being built,being bigger is a value for your
customer and not a liability.Well,

Nick, what was the vision? What lumber yard did you
envision when he said that?Because I was like, I'm pretty
sure I was thinking of onesalesman at my Lumberyard eating
a ham sandwich. And

Brady Fry (44:52):
so, you know, you know, that's, that's, that's
the, that's the thing about itis the i. You know, that's what
I'm selling for. You know,that's the value I'm trying to
communicate. But that, thatagreement, if anybody wants to
know, like, what was the onething that's always the one
thing? Like, I don't have to go,oh, is this customer or my dad's

(45:15):
Dean at the law school atVanderbilt, so all he sends, you
know, there, I have none ofthat. Like, I have none of that,
but that doing that pre conagreement. Now imagine, by the
way, guys, imagine if you wentinto interviewing an attorney
and like, you had something thatwas really important and you
needed to know that you had,like the most, you know,
sophisticated legal mind on yourteam. And you got done telling

(45:37):
about all your problems and andthen he said, Okay, well, it's
nice to meet you. Give me a callif there's anything else I can
do for you. You'd be like, yes,i That's why I'm here. So it'd
be confusing if he didn't say,you'd be relieved. And he said,
Hey, here's my retaineragreement. You'd go, Oh, thank
god

yes, yeah, yes. It's yeah. What a great what a
great way to picture that,because, like, you think people
are calling you because theywant to build a house, and it's
like, you give them all this,you have this great
conversation, and then peoplejust hang up. It's like they
weren't bored. They weren'tcalling because they wanted to
talk about building a house.They're calling because they're
trying to understand if you canbuild their house and solve

(46:19):
their issue.

Brady Fry (46:20):
And I'll tell you something. I know. You guys know
Sean Van Dyke, and he told methis, like, 10 years ago, Sean
came over, like, he's fromKnoxville. He was in Nashville,
and we've met a few times. Andhe was like, Brady, because I
think I prided myself on mylike, consulting mentality, like
I like to riff about myknowledge and my insight. He was
like, you are in a salestransaction right now, and if

(46:42):
you don't quickly find out ifthis is a customer for you,
you're not gonna be you're gonna

die. Yeah, you always think so much time, like,
opportunity cost alone, yes,

Brady Fry (46:52):
and so I'm not trying to be rude, but like, if I want
the work, I'm asking for thework right then. Like, and I
don't have some tightly scriptedI have a few things that I like.
The way it sounds. They'rearticulate. They so you, if
you've sent through a salesconversation with me, you might
hear some of the samevernacular, but I'm bringing out
that pre con. I'll tell yousomething. By the way, I think

(47:13):
you guys will appreciate this islike kind of a big win for me. I
was really excited about there'sa really incredible probably the
biggest thing is getting readyto launch in Nashville. Is a sub
subdivision called Wiley outtowards leapers fork, and it's
60 lots the developers andarchitect I have a very good
relationship with. It's all setup to be very successful. For
me, it's like fortune 500 CEOsmoving in. It's like pristine

(47:36):
it's like a Blackberry farm, ifyou've ever heard a Blackberry
farm, but like, full timeresidents. So I got a call about
a project. Architect came intown, homeowners came into town,
came and saw some of my work.They were very they like the
work. Now, you guys haveprobably been in a sales

(47:57):
presentation where people arealready using all kinds of
buying language. Oh yeah. Well,we want you when we start this
man, we want you to know we wantto do they're already telling
you that you've been hired justby their vernacular. These
people were polite, but I wasn'tgetting any of that. I wasn't
getting any of that languagelike they are mentally already
hired me. Well, I get done. Wemet on sites, when the very few

(48:19):
times I met first on a projectinstead of at my office. And so
couple days after thepresentation, I just said, Hey,
and they're building two houses,by the way, they're building a
family compound like this is,this is north of numbers I've
been quoting. I mean, this mightbe 15, $20 million project for
me. And so I said, hey, send anemail. Hey, great spending time

(48:43):
with you. Pleasure to show youmy work. You're lovely. Hey,
want to attach a copy of myprecon. I sent a precon pre
construction agreement and aretainer request. They signed
it. Sent it to me. They nevereven said they were going to
hire me. Now that might soundthat was probably the most
aggressive I've been, but ifthey didn't want to sign it,
they just would have called andsaid, Hey, we enjoyed meeting

(49:04):
you. We're just not quite thereyet. And I said, Hey, no
problem. I just wanted you toknow how I work.

Yeah, here's my next step with me. That

Brady Fry (49:13):
Job's off the street. That job is tethered to me now,
and I don't want that jobfloating around and somebody
else hears about it, you know,so

was it around 2017 when you implemented this, like
after you were that frustrated?Or were you doing pre con and
everything prior to that?

Brady Fry (49:34):
I had done it a little bit. Yeah, Michael Stone,
I had Michael Stone, who wrote amarket and profit a contractor's
guide, and I think he consultedme a little bit in 2010 and he
was like, I was like, nobody, Ican't do it. You know, I already
can't get work. I can't haveanother obstacle. And he's like,
people been telling me that for30 years, and so I got kind of

(49:56):
played with it. But like, Idon't even know exactly when I
implement I probably. Playedwith it a little bit, yeah, like
when I was finally like, I'mplanting my flag, and I'm not
doing it unless you pay me. AndI even went retroactively. By
the way, I won't mention hisname, but I'm building house
currently for a a Lister,country music star. I've been

(50:19):
talking to him since 2015 whoand he's redesigned the house
three times. He's a great guy. Ilove him. But, you know, Jeff
Duncan's architect, I love Jeff.You want to be on his jobs, they
always get great press. And sothe house got redesigned. Oh,

(50:40):
I'm not going to build it. Ican't spend that much money on
the house. And just kept goingback and forth. Finally, I said.
I told the guy, Hey, I mightprice this again. I don't think
you're going to build thishouse. I don't waste any more
time. And he's like, no, no, I'mgoing to build it. I was like,
well, then send me a check. Andhe did. Now, did that make him

(51:01):
build the house? I don't know,but I spent years because he's
famous. I wanted to be in hisgood graces. I wanted to make
sure that they didn't go, Hey,Jeff, get somebody else in here.
But I just said, I'm not doingit again. And if he would have
said, well, I'm calling somebodyelse. I said, okay, but I don't
know that that is what pushed itover the edge. But I wasn't

(51:23):
doing it again. I don't do thatanymore, and I don't believe
you're going to build it, and ifyou are, then you won't mind
write me

a check. Is Kid Rock a country singer? No, it's
not good.

Brady Fry (51:33):
We're hoping the guy will let us. You know,

Kid Rock's not designing a house since 2015
either. Yeah, he's

probably not a list either. Sorry, Kid Rock.
He's pretty a list around here,

Brady Fry (51:44):
but you know it. I don't know what that was, but I
even retroactively, yeah, justsaid, I went back and one other
little anecdote, there's a guyin my builder group, and I just
been like, he's a smart guy. Hedoes good work. He just can't.
He just, it's too insecure onthe pre construction or the

(52:06):
asking for a pre constructionagreement. And so I love to try
to kind of solve these puzzles.And so he said, Man, I've got
like, five estimates I have todo. I don't even have time to do
them. And know? And I said, Youknow what? This is kind of what
I would recommend. Why don't youcall these clients and say, Hey,
listen, I need to be transparentand honest with you. I've over

(52:27):
committed myself. I not onlyhave don't have enough time to
build the projects that havebeen brought to me, I don't have
enough money. I don't haveenough time to estimate the
projects that I have, Iunderstand that I told you I
could provide you a freeestimate. I'm gonna have to, I'm
have to backtrack on that. I'mnot going to be able to honor

(52:47):
that promise. I'll tell you whatI'm going to offer people, the
people that want to pay me to doan estimate, then I'm going to
do it. And I guess if everybodypays me, I'll have to decide
which of the people that I'mgoing to have to disappoint. And
I coached him into, you'vealready agreed to do it free.
Let's go back and tell Hey,we're not going to be able to

(53:07):
honor that. And that was areasonable Hey Say, if all, if
everybody wants it, I'll have totell somebody else, like, I
can't even do a paid estimatenow. And so, man, I just spent
some little time on it now, andit's so so it's changed
everything so much like nobodycan shame me out of anything.
Guys, quick

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keep you in the know witheverything mine, craftsman,
well, I think it's the it'sit's, there's so much there, but

(53:48):
the speed is so important.Because, you know, like I said a
few minutes ago, they're callingbecause they have a problem. The
problem is they want to build ahouse and they need to find
someone to do it. And it's likewe spend this we talk about this
process in which, like, theseinitial calls and like, okay,
what are next steps? Like, everyclient says, Okay, what are next
steps? And it's like, instead ofjust saying, Here, I'll send you

(54:08):
my pre construction agreements,like, oh, we should be in
person. We should, we shouldwalk the site. We should get to
know each other. You should.It's like, they're ready. They
reached out because they'reready to do the project. Make it
as simple and as possible. Andit's, you know, I've told this
story before, but I got lunchwith a builder local to me, and
we were chatting about, justlike the industry, and how

(54:29):
competitive it is. And he wastelling me about this story,
about he was, he had this giantjob, big, big job, been talking
to the client, and he was like,and I was putting together a
rough budget, and I was going topresent it to them the next week
and then follow up with thecontract. And I got a call on
Monday that this XYZ builder gotwind that this project was out

(54:51):
there. He drove to the guy'shouse. Guy opened the door, he
shook his hand, he told him whohe was. He told them, you know,
what he's trying to do androughly what it would. Boss, and
he had a and he had an agreementin his hand, the guy signed it,
and the job was gone. And it'slike, I mean, that's aggressive,
but like, and, but besides thepoint, like, the lesson there

(55:13):
is, like, the client just wants,like, wants action. Like, wants
to move. We want to move. Wewant to move. We want to move.
Like, don't, don't don't delaythat process, because it's just,
you know, the more they sitthere and simmer, it's like,
Okay, what's going on? You know?Like, anytime a client asks for
an update, like, any part of theprocess, it's like, I
immediately like, All right,we're not doing our job. And you

(55:36):
think about like, you like, themost common is when it's under
construction, like looking forsome update, but talk about it
from the sales perspective, it'slike, you know, our pipeline,
you know, in the last coupleweeks has been insane, and I've
been trying to be veryintentional with getting people
quickly through it. But sittinghere, even in this first hour
chatting with you, it's like,Man, I should just be sending

(55:58):
these guys agreements now,because half of them, I know,
want to move. They want to move.They want to get going.

Brady Fry (56:06):
You know, you don't do anything. And you could be
saying that you're deprivingyou're paying clients. If
somebody's a paying client, thenthey're paying client. But if
they're not a paying client,Shouldn't your attention be
devoted to the people that arepaying for your time? I mean, I
would say, I don't know that.I'd say it's a hard integrity
issue, but I want to go, hey,people are paying for my time.

(56:26):
Yeah, volunteer my time toothers. That's not really
equitable to the people. I got aquestion for you guys, by the
way, that kind of make youthink, how old are you? Nick
I'll

be 37 next week. All right. Do you

Brady Fry (56:40):
know, any builders that are wildly successful under
I mean, there's some examples.But like, I think sometimes
people forget how long it takes.Like, I

don't forget how long it takes. I just I balance
my life, my life decisions onthe fact that I have no idea how
long I'm going to live in thisplanet, so I want to be as
aggressive as I can to toaccomplish what I want. But
also, like, Yeah, I mean thatthat puts me on the verge of

(57:16):
anxiety, you know, on a prettyregular basis. So I have to
balance that with, like, allright, I'm 37 like, I'm doing
okay. You know, I've made somereally great decisions in my
life. I've had some really highsand certainly some, you know,
terrible lows. But you know,this is part of the process. I
don't, I don't discredit that.Like Jeff sweener said that too,

(57:38):
like he was laughing when I wastalking about losing work to old
guys with gray hair. And he'slike, Yeah, I'm glad you are,
because when I was your age, Ilost everything to those guys.
Yeah, so, so I understand that,and I and I totally respect it.
It's just, you know, it's mynature. And I think a lot of
people's nature is to like,break that stigma, be like. It
doesn't have to be like, I cando, I can do this before I get

(58:01):
gray hair. I 100%

Brady Fry (58:02):
agree. I don't think the old regime exists anymore,
where I thought, Hey, I gottawait till, like, you know, the
next the next guy up, like, Ihave to wait for the guys ahead
of me to retire or die. I don'tbelieve in that, but I also
believe that, you know, I mean,it does take, it does take time.

(58:25):
I mean, if you even think about,I wrote this on the life cycle
of a job. So let's just say yougot a job and you you're very
technical, so let's just go,Nick's got all the technical
expertise that he needs to besuccessful at the highest level
of custom home building. Okay,so we'll accept that. Well, then
you get your job, you have ayear of pre construction, pre

(58:46):
construction and design, 18months to two years of pre
construction design. You mightget to exploit some of the
assets during the build, butlike before that job, before
even the person that hired youfor that job might be able to
recommend you for another jobmight be three years away. Yeah,
it's hard to go, Hey, I'm gonnastart this job and then have

(59:08):
three more lined up. Like, whythis is building? Like, it just
takes a little bit to get aroundthat life cycle and and and do
it. So even once you haven'tjust think how much time it
takes to have that, thattechnical knowledge, to where
you can actually do it. And Ithink some of these guys who
don't have it and think thatthey're just going to Instagram

(59:29):
their way into that opportunity,they think this is a sales
business and not a performancebusiness. Dude this game over
like you go in and, I mean, youbuild somebody a 10 million
albatross game over, like yourbatting average has to be so
freaking high, you have to be sofinancially stable that you got
a problem, and your name's onthe line and it's 150 grand. You

(59:52):
don't even have to think aboutit. You go, Yeah,

I think that's the big difference. Even. As you get
older, it's, it's almost asthis, everything that you tried
to put out in the world andconvince everyone, including
yourself, of what's, what's theright way to do things actually
starts to pan out. Right? I feellike from 25 to 40, you're

(01:00:21):
trying to will yourself intoevery situation and best
practices and success in and inour industry. I think that it
takes time, and that while youcan bring a lot of money in
through your business, and youcould probably make a lot of
money, you're probably alsopaying a lot of money, either

(01:00:42):
through lessons learned or justgetting your business off the
ground. I think it probablytakes a good 15 or 20 years to
get to a point where you're notjust talking the talk, you're
actually walking the walk, andyou have the systems in place,
and you have some financialbacking that your money's making
you money, and you weresuccessful in business, and I
think at that point when youstop trying as hard, and it's a

(01:01:06):
little less talk and it's moreaction, I think that it makes it
a lot easier to survive in thisindustry. And I think that you
again, you have the confidenceto tell people no and
understand, I have theexperience to understand that, I
can tell you know, and I'mconfident that I'll be fine
because the next job is going tobe the one that I'm waiting on.

(01:01:28):
And I think when we're younger,it's too scary. It's too
frightening. We don't have theexperience of the confidence in
ourselves and our business tounderstand that this is all
going to work out like weprobably don't have the systems
in place to be 100% confidentthat it is. And that's one of
the things that I noticed. Evenyou know, from being 25 to being

(01:01:49):
39 is just me understanding thatI'm gonna be able to work
through all of this. It's it'sgonna work out, and that I have
my systems dialed so much morenow that I'm guaranteeing I'm
making money on all of myprojects, and I'm not working 2x
to make 1x

Brady Fry (01:02:08):
Yep, I agree with all that. And so I think, you know,
I know several guys, you know, Iknow you're doing the single
family home stuff more so Nickthat, I think that that that are
kind of in that and getfrustrated. And I don't think
there's a pecking order. Nobodygets to pick your timing. I just
think that, you know, I wrotedown another couple things I

(01:02:29):
love stand up comedy. You know,we have the hottest stand up
right now. You do Nate bargatsy.So Nate bargatsy is everywhere
right now. He's

Tyler Grace (01:02:40):
on Super Bowl commercials.

Brady Fry (01:02:42):
Super Bowl commercials sold out Nissan or,
sorry, Bridgestone twice. Like,this guy is everywhere. Well, he
was a funny guy in his 20s.Like, do you think the guy
wasn't funny at 25 or at 37 theguy was freaking hilarious, but
he had to be out there learninghis craft. So he had to learn
stand up comedy, right? Well,then he had to build a

(01:03:04):
following. He had to go out andmake fans. So it goes from
comedy clubs. Well, imagine thisguy. I think I looked at Nate's
45 and I heard a couple things.I think two years ago, Nate, I
might have this wrong, butwithin last several years, Nate
had approximately $450,000 inincome. Nate bargassi grossed
$82 million last year. Imagineold with Nate bargassi said, I'm

(01:03:28):
still doing the same old smokeycomedy clubs. This isn't working
out for me, and he quit at 40.He's the biggest comedy comedian
in the United States. Now. Ialso thought about that with
Theo Vaughn. Theo Vaughn was ona nationally televised, famous
show in his 20s. But that wasn'tenough to launch what his dream
was at being an acting andcommenting the guy toiled for 20

(01:03:50):
years, you know, probably notgetting the respect that he
thought he deserved, not gettingit, not getting cast in movies,
not getting sitcoms. He got tointerview the President of the
United States. He was consideredso culturally relevant that the
President in the United that,you know, candidate for
Republican Party, if thepresident united states appeared
on his podcast, but like, he'sin his 40s. Like, what happens

(01:04:11):
when those guys so you guys thatare in your 40s, they're like,
and again, I hope it happens foryou. I'm not saying, hey,
grasshoppers stick around orit's, oh

yeah, you put the time and it's guaranteed to
happen. Just don't

Brady Fry (01:04:23):
quit before the whole world opens up to you. That's
all I'm trying to say. And

Nick Schiffer (01:04:28):
I, you know, speaking from experience. And,
you know, I've been pretty openabout 23 and 2024 being really
challenging years. But like, youknow, there's been a lot of
times where I have to remindmyself of that where it's like
right now is what feels like theimpossible, lowest of the low.

(01:04:49):
This is the most challengingthing I've ever done. You know,
it's the, you know, it's the Ishould just give up and do
something simpler, like, why amI doing this? Like having
conversations with Tyleroffline. Like. I don't
understand. Like, maybe I'm Inever thought, like, maybe I'm
too middle class. But like, whenyou said that earlier, it's
like, yeah, I've had verysimilar thoughts, like, maybe I
don't know what the fuck I'mdoing, and maybe, maybe this is

(01:05:12):
all just, you know, is wayharder than I thought it would
be. And, you know, but I alwayscome out of that, like, telling
myself, I'm like, No, this is,this is when people this is when
everyone else gives up. Exactly.This is, this is the moment that
it's like, All right, here's,here's your test. Like, see if
you can, see if you can make itthrough this. Because if you can

(01:05:34):
make it through this, then youknow, there's something on the
other side for you. If you don'tand you give up, hey, that's
okay. Yeah, that's all right.Like, not a big deal. Like,
you're no less of a man or what,like, it just you gave up and,
like most people do, but if youdon't want to be like most
people, it's like, see if youcan push through that and, and I
think that is what I mean, atleast for me, like, that's what

(01:05:56):
consistently pushes me tocontinue to to fate, you know,
fight through adversity andfight through the, you know, the
challenges that sometimes justcan completely seem like,
totally unreasonable. There's noreason it should be this hard.
Like, why? Like, why can't Ifigure this out?

Brady Fry (01:06:16):
Nothing will humble Eve like, this business,
including me. So like, Don't allthese people just think that I
just so confident in everysituation. I mean, some days you
go home, you're like, why wouldsomebody buy shoestrings from
me? That's the nature of it,man. And it's by the way, I say
this all the time, and I seepeople just like, almost like,
take a deep breath. This is aloneliest business in the world.

(01:06:40):
Loneliest business. It's gottenless lonely. I found more ways
to kind of connect with peopleand peers, and I have great
relationships with, like, evenmy vendors, like really good
friends of mine. But man, like,when it's lonely and then you
get that, you know, you get yourass just absolutely handed you
on something, and you just feelso I'm experiencing the same
thing. So I don't, you know,there's no reason you know, I've

(01:07:02):
been doing it longer, and youknow, I have those same days
too. You got to find ways to getthrough it. But that's where you
know, when you're passionateabout something, that's what
keeps you doing it. Because thisother stuff that may even be
easier to make money, if all Iwant to do is make money,
there's easier to ways to makemoney in construction than

what I'm doing, yeah, or in anything.

Brady Fry (01:07:25):
But like, well, it's fulfilling. Like, I love taking
something that's just a piece ofpaper and then walking in and
going, it exists. And every dayI saw it get a little bit more
into reality. Like, that's whatI like, you know? You know what?

You know what? I think, you know, the loneliness,
I think, is oftentimes driven bythe fact that when it sucks, or
when you don't have your shittogether, you don't, you really
can't talk about that. You can'ttell someone like, Hey, I don't
have my shit together right now.Because why would someone then
turn around and be like, Allright, well, let me give you a
cool million bucks to try to domy house, yeah, and it's like,

(01:08:03):
so you you constantly have to belike, you know, in an optimistic
state, regardless of what'shappening behind the scenes. I
think I mentioned this on thepodcast a couple weeks ago, but
we were interviewing for a smalljob, and an architect was going
through his questions, like,live in front of the client,
like going through. And he goes,Oh, I got one more question.
Based on your current state ofyour business, how financially

(01:08:26):
stable are you right now? And Iwas like, What a question like.
And then the client laughs. Andhe goes, No one's ever gonna
say, Oh, I'm in a terriblefinancial spot, right so? And I
was like, No, we're fine. Like,we're good. He goes, All right,
check. And I'm like, but that, Imean, that's what any really
weird it was. So I found it,found it so weird.

Brady Fry (01:08:49):
Probably wasn't done it there, but I probably
wouldn't go, I'll show you yourabout my balance sheet, if you
show me yours. Yeah.

And I remember being like, you know, am I like,
like? I remember going throughthe motion of like, if I wasn't
fine, like, would I have said noor like, and if I wasn't, would
I have lost a job based on thatinformation? I was like, this is
just, it was such a weirdquestion, but, but it really
made me realize, like, we, youknow, even when it's shit, like,

(01:09:17):
you have to, you have like, youstill have to put this facade
on, like, I know what I'm doing.I'm good. Business is great.
Like, you know, I'm not heretrying to sell you a job because
I'm trying to save my life.Like, I'm here because I want to
build you I want to build a coolproject and work with great
people.

Brady Fry (01:09:32):
Yeah, it'd be, I mean, we are very financially
and we have a very strongbalance sheet, like, with our
production, we have to keepquite a bit of money and working
capital, and then we get on areserves. But there are ways,
like, again, if somebody, Iwouldn't say, you know, the same
that's even kind of internally,I wouldn't want to brag to my

(01:09:52):
customer on how much money. Andlike, like, they have some
reason to not pay us in a timelyway. Or,

Unknown (01:09:59):
yeah, it's like, Oh, you. Got

2 million bucks that I'm paying them too much
money, yeah?

Brady Fry (01:10:02):
Like, I don't, I wouldn't, you're making

6% of my deposit use that money, yeah? Which, by
the way,

Brady Fry (01:10:08):
something that you mentioned and talking about
doing this with architects. Ithought I'd mentioned man one
time when I planted my flag, Ineeded work, and I'd called the
architect and asked him for someprojects, and he agreed to take
me to an interview. And so thenwe're interviewing, and like,
he's there with the client, andI'm sitting there in my head
having this internal battle.Like, okay, man, I like, planted
my flag on this. I'm not doinganything without a pre con. But

(01:10:32):
then, on the other hand, like,out of need, I kind of asked him
to bring me here. So is he goingto be like, Why is Brady shaking
me client down for money. Yeah,he doesn't even have work, like,
he asked me to bring him, andnow he's 50, you know, an hour
into this thing, and like, like,asking for a check. And I just
said, You know what? I'm justgonna do it. And I said, Hey,

(01:10:53):
man, you know, I don't know whoelse you've interviewed. It
might be a little bit differentfrom some of the other people
you've talked to. I reallybelieve that the biggest asset I
have is our consultation. We'rein a we're not in a competitive
environment. We just want togive you the information make
best decisions. And to do that,I have a pre construction
agreement, and the architectdidn't say anything. And the
guy, the guy was an attorney. Hewas like, Absolutely, I get it.

(01:11:15):
I'm attorney. We have the samething. So then I walk outside
with the architect, and he goes,I go, man, um, and this might,
this might be a way for you guysto take this back to the
architects when they go out andget a bunch of beds. Then what
does the architect do? They arewhere the homeowner goes the
architect and goes, Hey, man,can you sift through these three
bids and tell me he was like,hell no. Do you think I want

(01:11:37):
these people to get five bids?Then they call me and they want
me to Frankenstein. These COVIDthat aren't on standard
documentations. They don't haveenough notes. It's what the
builder thinks it is, becausethere's not specs and
selections. It's justeverybody's opinion of cost.
He's like, I hate it. So on theopposite side, I would probably

(01:11:57):
go to the architects first andgo, Hey man, why don't you just
let me get in this consultingrelationship with them, instead
of you getting put in theposition of trying to sift
through three bids that have norelevance to each other and
making informed decisions aboutthree contradictory pieces of
information, like, I think youcan cut that off. Get the
architect advocating for youbefore the architect before the

(01:12:19):
homeowner, you know, puts themin that position. So I've felt
relieved that he didn't. Hedoesn't want to go get three
bits. He wants to hire the rightguy and move on.

I have a somewhat specific question for you with
regard like, obviously, you'renot taking on a ton of a ton of
work. You're limited to thevolume based on execution
standards, everything else, whatare some of the the tools or
considerations when you haveleads coming on your plate, to

(01:12:49):
understand if you the clientwho's or the potential client
who's approaching you is a fitfor your business?

Brady Fry (01:12:56):
Well, typically, you know what we were talking about
earlier in my career. I was theRainmaker, so I had to be the
Rainmaker. And so, you know, ifI didn't get the job, I had to
get the job to stay on the job.Yeah, well, now I've just built,
built that name in the designcommunity, and so, like,
architects want me on the job,because in terms of our back

(01:13:18):
room, in terms of our process,we're clearly the most
sophisticated people in ourspace, and so the other
builders, I like them, and Irespect them, but in terms of,
like, our ability perform, it's,I don't even know if they want
to do it like, I've got 15employees. I have a lot. I don't
think these guys want to manage15 people. Yeah? For these other

(01:13:42):
guys are, they're competentbuilders. Their product is good,
but terms of, like, sellingagainst them, it's they don't
even want to do what I do, andso,

so is it just a matter of, of understanding that
the client that's coming to youwants you to do the work.

Brady Fry (01:14:00):
Yeah, usually I usually I have some kind of
heads. I usually have some kindof I would say most of people
that call me are pretty warm.When they call me, they know who
I am, they know my reputation.They know what I do, and if
there's any obstacles, sometimesnot like they want make sure
they're being treated fair, butthey're not calling me because

(01:14:23):
they think I'm the best deal.They know high standards and
have integrity. And so, like,that's the commerce. Like,
that's the that's what they'rebuying. And so, so, you know, if
people start using languagelike, Hey, we're just trying to
get bids from a bunch of people,that's like, automatically,
like, you know, hey, you know,we're different. That's not what

(01:14:44):
we do. And, yeah, rarely ifsomebody's even using that
vernacular Do we ever, as soonas I tell them I have a pre
construction agreement, like,Okay, thanks, we'll go get the
other people to bid it, youknow,

was there specific? Like, like tactics that you used
to get yourself and yourbusiness kind of to that space,
or to position yourselves withinthe market. And I, like, I look
at what I what I do, and I havethe very smaller scale, smaller

(01:15:19):
projects, but it's the samementality where, like, I want,
the easiest way for me to vet aclient is to say, like, how did
you hear about me? Or what are,you know, why are you reaching
out to me? Because it's, it's,unless they're reaching out to
me because they specificallywant to work with me. I
understand that it's probablynot an ideal fit for me, but I

(01:15:40):
know that I spent 10 yearsmarketing myself through social
media, through conversationswith clients, and just pitching
my business in that light, thatthat's really how I position
myself. It sounds like yourbusiness changed so much from
2017 until now. What were youable to do, like, actionable

(01:16:05):
insight? What were you able todo with your business to
position yourself the way thatyou have now, where people are
coming to you because they knowwho you were. Was it like, I'm
gonna do this to make thishappen? Or was it just, I just
kept doing the same thing, and Ikept working and building better
jobs and building betterrelationships. It's

Brady Fry (01:16:24):
interesting because we have systems in the company,
but they're not systems,necessarily, that I designed. I
was very good in the field, andI wasn't good in the field
because I had this great, youknow, iron plate system that,
like, never failed. I'm hyperperceptive only in construction,

(01:16:45):
I can't keep up with keys. Ihave eliminated keys to my life
because, like, I'm Mr. Like,lose the keys. Like, if my wife
tells me to get something out ofthe pantry, like, I'm O for a
million on finding it. I'm like,Yeah, I don't see it. She's
like, it's right. But inconstruction, I think just
because I care about it so muchlike my project managers hired
nothing from me. So even on,like trying to manage a project,

(01:17:08):
I was like, I didn't have, like,Gantt charts and and critical
paths and, like all these forms.I was like, I gotta order doors.
What do you mean? Gotta orderdoors? We're just Yeah, but
those doors are gonna take 1216,weeks, and I just knew it, like,
I just had this, like, when youwake up at one minute before,
like, your alarm went off, Ijust had that. So I was so

(01:17:31):
driven by instincts and kind ofperception that's really hard.
And now I have people that havebrought the systems to it. I
will tell you something. This iskind of like one of the core
things I identify in, like,like, changing my mindset. So I
thought I was doing pretty good,like, I was pretty happy with my
business. I started seeing guyson Instagram. I started kind of

(01:17:51):
reaching out to people in thebuilding community. I got to
know Brad Levitt. So when I gotto know Brad, shortly after, I
met Brad, like he was coming toNashville, like, two weeks
later. So like, I was like, Hey,man, I'm trying to do this. Are
you doing this? He's like, Yeah,you know, he called me, and then
he's like, I'm gonna be inNashville in two weeks. And so
Brad and I were playing golf,and at the time, I thought Brad
and I's businesses were aboutthe same level, you know, like,

(01:18:15):
and so I said, Hey, Brad, youknow, and not that, I don't want
to eliminate all this stuff totop line revenue. There's so
much things this, but justthat's what we were talking
about. But again, those peopleout there that just think, this
is a, you know, who can get thehighest top line revenue?
Discard that there's so manyways to be successful without
having this massive type linerevenue. So I thought my my

(01:18:35):
mind, Brad and I probably hadthe similar number of jobs and
similar cost per job. So I wasat about 17 million a year at
that point. And I thought, Brad.I said, Brad, you know, what do
you what do you look at? He'slike, 30. And I was like, Damn,
you know.

Unknown (01:18:53):
And what a one upper Yeah.

Brady Fry (01:18:55):
And I was at like 17, and I was like, I'm doing 30.
Like, that was just like, myfirst goal. But at that point,
I'm gonna tell you this beforethat, I didn't even even ever
consider doing 30, yeah, maybeBrad doesn't want me talking
about how much he does on apodcast, but, but I was just
like, You know what? When Istarted looking nationwide at,

(01:19:18):
like, the best builders andlike, started looking at trying
to be that, and stop looking atjust the best builders in my
market. I just had a I was like,I'm gonna build $100 million
company, and how, I don't know,but I just said, I'm building
$100 million company, and Idon't have a spreadsheet. I
don't have a hey, by 2028 inorder for me to stay on. But I

(01:19:41):
just said, I'm dreaming bigger.I'm going for this thing and
but, you know, I did have, like,two I was talking to you about
those five jobs, like, once Icame out of that, it's just been
on a roll ever since, like, howI'm perceived in the
marketplace, the opportunities Iget, just keep you. Keep coming
in now, something I'm veryflattered by. There's architect

(01:20:03):
I followed. I've been followingfor a decade on Instagram. Oh,
let me tie this to Instagram.This is kind of interesting
thing, by the way, because Ithink I just changed my mindset.
But so that's right now, no, inthe last week, last week, I've
changed my

so right now, literally right now,

Brady Fry (01:20:21):
I see people so 200 million like, there's a part of
that that I'm really I, I thinkI have things to say. I have a
heart for this industry. Ialready mentor tons of people
free. But when I see peopledoing events, get togethers,
things to elevate the industry,share their knowledge. Like, I
want to be doing it, you know.And so I go, man, I got to have

(01:20:43):
this like I would. I think I canhelp. I have a heart for this,
and I think I have something tosay, and I want to help these
guys get through theirinsecurity, their obstacles, be
successful builders. So maybe Igot to blow up this big
Instagram following, right? So,whatever, I'm just under 10,000
and, man, maybe I need to bechasing that 200,000 then I

(01:21:04):
realized last week, 50% of myclients don't follow me on
Instagram. Yeah, they'll evenfollow me. And the ones who do
follow me after they hired me.And so I'm thinking about doing
some stuff in terms of that Ihave aspirations to do, and
thought leadership on anotherthread. But then I thought, man,
wait a minute. I have like, kindof the ultimate carte blanche,

(01:21:25):
which is, I know somebody whoknows Brady, I'll call him for
you. Like, isn't that like, whensomebody goes, Hey, man, here's
the cell number. Tell him I toldyou to call. Like, why do I want
to be out here when I alreadyhave the guy that the people who
know knows, maybe I don't needto be the monkey with the
accordion out here trying to getattention which which I was, and

(01:21:47):
I can still be thoughtleadership somewhere else. I was
like, Hey, I don't think I'mgonna put any videos of me on
Instagram anymore. I'm gonnajust be product, just be maybe
on the thought leadership side,and to the extent I can help our
building community, but turns mycustomers, I might go the other
way. Go. He didn't know who youare, and he didn't know somebody
you know. He didn't even takeyour call or just go back the

(01:22:11):
other way. He's the guy that youdon't call and let he didn't
talk to you unless he knows whyyou're calling. I don't know,
just a thought I listen, but Iwas like, nobody even follows
me. My customers don't evenfollow

me. I mean, it's, it's valid, like, it's something
that, I mean, I personally havestruggled with, you know, for
forever, I've had two Instagramaccounts. I've, I've done, you
know, I've moved it back andforth from NS to Nick schifr.
It's, you know, and it's thesame thing. It's like, my, my
Instagram following is primarilymale and peers. So it's like,

(01:22:44):
you know, and I can attribute, Ican attribute some of that back
to clients. Like, you know, Ibuild rapport with architects.
They see how much I care aboutcraftsmanship and quality. You
know, we put a, we shifted ourYouTube focus a month ago, and
it's crazy. I'm getting at leasta lead a week from YouTube,
which is just based solely basedon the fact that we've changed

(01:23:08):
the way we're messaging things.And it's, it's weird, but it's,
there's no right, there's noright or wrong answer,
especially when it comes tosocial media. It's like, you
know, I've thought about onlygoing to finish product on on
social media, because it woulddemand a higher female audience,
because my audience continues tobe male dominated. And you look

(01:23:29):
at like Brad, like he the amountof finished product he, I mean,
he has so much work going on,but I think his split, I mean,
it's not, I don't think it's5050, but he's, you know, he's
definitely way higher on thefemales because

of the shaved

Brady Fry (01:23:44):
body. Yeah, that's

not because of the next project.

Brady Fry (01:23:53):
I'll tell you exactly what I would do if I had your
reach and your platform, I putarchitects on your podcast, like
these guys with social media,and I would go, hey man, we're
doing an Architect Series. We'regonna interview that like it's
that's all right, there, you're,

you're, you're spot on. It's something Tyler
and I were chatting aboutrecently. We're, I'm not gonna
share too much, but we're like,changing a little bit about our
podcast going forward. And thatis been something where it's
like, how do we make a biggerimpact? Not only because, I
mean, modern craftsman hasalways been the thought
leadership, the, you know, it'slike, I'm a builder first, but

(01:24:31):
I'm a, I'm a, you know, this isa community and coaching for
built other builders. Like, youknow, you came to, you came to
our Nashville event, like, youknow, that was like, I love
doing that, but it at the end ofthe day, it's not, it's not
getting me a ten million build.Well,

the other thing is to put, like, all of your eggs
in one basket for social mediawhen it like, it's just what you
said before, Brady, like thatone job. Isn't going to change
your business, that one clientisn't going to and that one post
isn't going to make or breakwhat you're doing. And I think

(01:25:09):
that you have to use your socialto however serve you best at
that time, like, it's such ashort window, it's such a short
lifespan. And I think toapproach social as if, like,
what if this client sees this?Or what if this client says no
because they see this? It likethat's just not the way it's
going to work. And even if it isat the end of the day, to me,

(01:25:30):
it's like, this is I want peoplehiring me for all of the right
reasons. And if I'm postingsomething that makes you not
want to hire me, I'm dodging abullet regardless, because at
the end of the day, like, Thisis who I am. This is what's
really important to me and andif, even if I'm showing you the
inner workings of my business,you're going to get to that

(01:25:52):
point with that client anyway.So like, what are you holding
back the fact to be able to sitdown with them and sell them, or
be able to explain in person tome, it's like, I don't know,
maybe you're putting the cartbefore the horse, or, you know,
maybe you're just dodging abullet at the end of the day. I
you know, none of us are in theposition where we need three

(01:26:14):
dozen jobs of the year to keepus busy. I think that focusing
on that handful of selectclients and however they're
coming through. It's probablymore important than stressing
about what's on your social andwhat you're doing with that and
who's going to see that.

Brady Fry (01:26:29):
I don't think, I don't, I don't think it hurts,
but it doesn't, it won't alwaysmake it. It's it's not the
person with the highest followercount is, but hey, I know you
guys had a really successfullaunch with your marketing book
that you guys put out, you sold250 I did the math on that. That
ain't bad, you know. And so youhave opportunities like that,

(01:26:52):
but I think it's good, like, ifit was me, there's a lot of
these guys that don't know howto break through on social
media. And if you said, Hey,man, we're putting you on the
podcast. Everybody wants to knowwhat it's like. You have such a
prolific body of work and, man,we're gonna, you know, we've got
200,000 followers on our otherfeeds. We're gonna pump it up.
Like, like, they're gonna,they're gonna take that meeting.

(01:27:13):
Like, yeah, because that's thething, man, I was thinking about
this. Like, there are somearchitect dumps, like, and this.
Just, just think how we feelwhen people call us, even like
subcontractors or whomever like.I always say this. People say I
want to work with architects,which is partly true. What they
really mean is, I wantarchitects to bring me work

(01:27:35):
right. And those are you canwork with architects right now.
Hire an architect, right? Hirean architect, and you'll be
working with them, you know. Andso if you want to get to the
point where you're their peer,like that, just takes some time.
So now imagine, again, in ourworld, imagine you're out there
delivering for an architect,like, you know, their systems,

(01:27:56):
your collaborative like, youhave a strong body of work
together, right? Like, how doyou think that that guy is just
going to see somethingcompelling? Like, you have to
drop the ball before that guyusually goes looking. And so
when you get that architectrelationship, you want to
deliver. But, like, it would beweird. I heard your your podcast

(01:28:17):
last week with Colton brothers.Like, clearly, you guys have a
relationship that's based onlike, delivering, like, they've
been there for you, like you'vebeen here like each other, like,
like, that's not under value,like you guys were cutting up,
like, this guy is like, a partof your life and a part of your
business. And there's beensometimes like, like, there's
not going to be some millworkcompany that's just going to
have some kick ass reel, andyou're going to go, screw,

(01:28:39):
screw, yeah, I'm leaving. You'regoing to be like, well, if
cuckoo brothers built screws upand they dropped the ball, their
quality takes a big dive, you'regonna go, man, now I'm looking
around. So now there might bebut just because somebody's
doing it doesn't mean you're notgonna, you're not gonna
necessarily jump on thatrelationship, just because so

(01:29:00):
then once you get in the door,you want to stay in the door,
then this is where youultimately get to, which is the
best you go from, like, asaspirational, like, level
yourself up, get in the door,where you want to get it to as
peer, like you're on the team.Like, when the when the plans go
out, they go, oh yeah, thoseguys, you know, and, you know, I

(01:29:23):
was thinking, I always like agood analogy, there's a guy,
there's a guitar player here inNashville, named Brent Mason.
Brent, he's the one

you're building the house for now. He's accomplished

Brady Fry (01:29:32):
guitar player. I don't know if he's, if he's been
in that kind of, that kind ofcoin, but Brent Mason's really,
really, really, superaccomplished. He's probably on
60% of every country, he's cutthe whole Post Malone record,
like this country, like he'sjust the dude. Well, think of
how many guys that have a lot offollowing on Instagram that are

(01:29:53):
prolific guitar players. They'renot peers yet, like, when the
looser calls, they go, Hey, man,you see this guy kicking ass? So
on Instagram, they go, we'regonna call mace, yeah, right,
like he's, he's the peer at thatpoint, yeah. So what I've
learned and where Instagram hasbeen really valuable for me. I
call it LinkedIn for architects.So first, build your

(01:30:16):
architectural base locally. Yourlocal architects are best
positioned to patronize you.Like, it's fine to have iconic
out of town architects, but theguys that are building your
community mostly are going tolive in your community. So
target those guys first. If it'sa big firm, like, sometimes
there are some young associatesthat aren't working on their

(01:30:37):
flagship projects, I will try tomeet some young person at Hutter
or at Patrick Ahern and go, Hey,man, everything's not going to
be in Architectural Digest orCoastal Living. What's something
and then, as that person has alot they might be intimidated by
their iconic their biggerbuilders, like, Oh man, I don't
know if this other builder, thesilver haired guys, are older,

(01:30:59):
they're not relevant. You couldget in with some of the young
associates on some of theprojects that maybe aren't going
to be published, and start themgo, Hey, man, this guy is really
delivering for us. So start withthe younger architects. Then
once you build that baselocally, right, and you start
working with the predominantfirms. So for me, I started

(01:31:21):
working with a firm called feverto road about 10 years ago. They
were working out of their house.There's 65 associates now. So
people come to me, man, like,what did you do? I was like, Oh,
how did you like it seems like Ipulled off a coup. I knew they
were talented. They both work atMcAlpin, so they had and I love

(01:31:41):
them, like they're generallygreat guys. But I was like, I
didn't know that then. I justknew these were two guys that
came out of McAlpin, and we'restarting their own firm. And I
was like, man, they got theright pedigree. And yeah, now I
have some relationships atMcAlpin, but I didn't back then.
I went met the young guys thatwere starting a firm. They do
the most work in Asheville.Well, I've been there for 10

(01:32:03):
years, so now I do, I do get thefirst call on all their best
projects. I didn't get anyprojects for five years. I had
to have this tough conversationI shared with you earlier, yeah,
but he was hiring somebody else.He was sitting in my office
while we're doing this podcast.I mean, the the principal of
that company meet with my teamabout another project, and so

(01:32:24):
then what happened is, well,kind of why that wasn't going
on, by the way, I did somethingsimilar to what you did Nick
with possible I couldn't get anyattention here, and nobody would
hire me. I saw Jeff Duncan'swork on the first pin I ever
made on Pinterest. I'm not onPinterest anymore. Was a project
of Jeff Dungan. The Jeff wasalready accomplished at that

(01:32:47):
point. You know, now he's likesuperstar architect, and I
always tell people, when I sawhis work, I didn't know if he
was a 25 year old kid that livedat home or had a prolific firm,
and I didn't care. I just said,Whatever this dude's doing, I
want to be a part of it. Yeah,so I called him and and I drove
down there, and I had a projectI was trying to develop it. What

(01:33:09):
could have been incredible. Itdidn't end up manifesting. Why
hire Jeff to do a spec? Well,all of a sudden, these Nashville
architects, they all know whoJeff Duncan is, and they're
going pretty How did Brady fryget a Jeff Duggan job? Well, I
paid him, you know. And I dothink that when people are kind

(01:33:30):
of like, well, you know, here'sthis accomplished architect, and
Brady was working with him.Well, now I get on paying Jeff
Dungan jobs, like I get on. Sonow, now, so now, imagine this.
So it took me, I was looking atthis, about 10 years, to have
what I would call, like a peerrelationship with about four

(01:33:53):
architects, right? So that tooka decade. Yeah, right. Well, now
I picked up four architects inthe last year. And you guys
probably follow all of them,because when those out of market
guys come in the market, theystart seeing where's this guy
showing up. They don't knowNashville. So they start going,

(01:34:13):
Well, man, I see Brady fry onJeff Duncan, Jeremy corkin, lrk,
I guess Brady's the guy thatworked with architects.

I mean, it's, it's the same thing as making money,
right? Like, the more money youhave, the easier it is to make
more money. And it takes areally long time to get to the
point where you start makingenough money to make you more
money, and then it starts tosnowball. And again, it's like
the way that you so much startedthis podcast where, like, yeah,
everyone sees your success asbeing overnight or you lucked

(01:34:43):
out, but like you don't see the1015, years that I spent just in
the trenches trying to establishthis and get by. And I think
that once you do establishyourself, and once you build
those connections, you buildthat rapport. Rapport, yeah, it
seems like you. It seemed yo, ittook me 10 years to get the
first four, and then it took mea year to get the next four,

(01:35:05):
which are all really high level.But you can't forget how much
time and effort went into that.Like it does get to a point
where it seems like it'ssnowballing, and your success
may seem overnight, but it'snot. And like, as far as the
conversation on the podcast andwith architects to be fully

(01:35:25):
transparent with listenershipand you as well, it's really
difficult to get people on thepodcast and have a candid
conversation without them justpitching themselves or kind of
feeding you a bunch of bullshitand smoke and mirrors, right?
Because they feel like this istheir platform. They're gonna
come on and like, that's a lotof times what people are using

(01:35:47):
podcasts for, right? It's a wayfor me to promote ourselves, get
our name out, reach otherlisteners and other people, and
it's tough to get people on thatyou don't have that relationship
with. To just have a candidconversation, as if, hey, it's
the three of us sitting in aroom. Nobody's gonna hear this.
They get on the podcast, andit's like, well, I just want to

(01:36:08):
pitch who I am and sell who I amand say all the right things.
And while that may seem great onpaper, it doesn't make for a
great conversation, because it'slike, You're full of shit, like
you're saying all the rightthings. But we all know in the
world, that's not actually howit happens. And I think you
know, you you wind up being ableto see through that. So I think
that's one of the biggestchallenges with lining up guests

(01:36:31):
that are out of network, is thatyou right. We're going to sit
down record for an hour and ahalf, two hours, and we don't
really know who you are, so bythe time an hour and 20 minutes
is in, you're finally warming upto be open and honest and Canvas
and vote or vulnerable with andcandid with each other. And it's

(01:36:53):
like, All right, now it's timeto hang this up and good
podcast. It was great to meetyou and speak with you. I

Brady Fry (01:36:59):
think, if you like, I think it'd be really
interesting. Like, if I wasgonna interview Matt Risinger, I
would ask him zero questionsabout building science, yeah,
yeah, that. I would go,everybody hears you talk. So I
remember, you know, one thing Isaw Matt Reisinger that, like, I
remember, now I have it like, Iremember at the time, he was
like, This is my vice presidentof construction. I was like, Oh,

(01:37:22):
shit, you have one of those.Like, yeah. Thought that was
like, me, you know, and so,like, I have an executive team.
Like, was like, mind expanding.So, like, I remember thinking if
I was gonna ask Matt, like, Idon't care about water heaters
or, yeah, about cigatta sub slabinsulation, no. Like, you could

(01:37:43):
have a leadership team, asidefrom people that were just
building, yeah. Or if I wasgoing to interview Jeff Duncan,
I'd go, Hey, man, like, you'rean artist. But like, now you
have to, like, who runs abusiness? Like, you have like,
20 employees, and I'm surethat's not what you like to do.
You want to draw. So like, howdo you how did you generate

(01:38:05):
business? Have a business so youcould do the art stuff, because
I'm sure you don't want to sitaround looking at p and l's and
projections and payroll andinsurance and all that crap. And
so I think you could, you couldget people in a little bit
different take, if you took themoutside of it, you know, what's
the biggest mistake you made?There's any houses that you're
embarrassed about, like, just,you know, leading with those

(01:38:27):
thoughtful questions. And, youknow, I think there's a path
there, for sure. I mean, I thinkit's, it's there. Listen, people
like to talk about themselves. Imean, even do it. People that I
think have some integrity andhumility aren't afraid to to
share their misses either. Youknow, yeah, so I

think a lot of the most valuable conversations wind
up being with people who areolder than us, who are are going
to come on and they have enoughconfidence in themselves and in
their business to just be frankwith you and just have a
conversation and not try andpitch themselves and talk about
their screw ups and talk aboutwhere they missed, they missed

(01:39:08):
the mark, and what thechallenges of business and how
they got through thosechallenges, and just are open
and willing to share the lessonsthat they've learned, rather
than get on a soapbox and tryand convince people of the right
path, right what do you need todo? And I think that generally

(01:39:29):
makes at least I don't know froma listener's perspective, but
for me, that's what I like is,is being able to have a
conversation with somebody, evenyou sitting down today and being
prepped with with things thatyou want to speak about, because
it's like, this is reallyimportant to him. This isn't a
pitch. This is experience, andthis is what he's learned. And I

(01:39:51):
think that's super volume makesfor makes for a really great
conversation that just isn't abunch of smoke and mirrors and
kind of BS. But

Brady Fry (01:39:59):
think how much of the. Time in the business, and I
think that most of the time Iwas in business, I didn't even
know it was going to go thatwell for me. Yeah. So then all
of a sudden, when you look backand go, Hey man, now I've got,
I've got employees that arebeing successful, like they're
buying houses and gettingmarried and taking great
vacations, like, you feel likeagain, you had all these again,

(01:40:20):
we're all subject to marketchanges. Like, I'm not
invincible, but you do have thatconfidence. Like, most of the
time I was like, Man, I don'teven know if this is going to
work out for me, if I'm going tobe able to be a vehicle for
anybody else to reach theirgoals. And then then would I be
confident enough in all of thatthat I could reach back to
somebody who's 10 years behindme and like, help build them up.

(01:40:44):
Like I didn't know wisdom waseven gonna work out for me. And

that's the interesting thing, is that,
like, and I have conversationswith people that they don't
realize that we're all in thatboat, right, that like, we're
kind of making it up, and that,you know, you create a budget
and you create an estimate, andyou're just guessing. And no
matter what your systems are, nomatter what how much historical
data you have, you're still justkind of guessing, and that a lot

(01:41:11):
of this is made up. And nobodywants to sit in front of a
camera or sit on a podcast andsay, life, we're making it up as
we go business. We're making upas we go and then like, I think
our responsibility to ourcommunity, to our listeners and
to the industry and the youngerpeople is to then realize where
we are and and inventory whatthe last 10 years looked like,

(01:41:36):
engage what went right and whatwent wrong and what was
successful. And I think that'swhat Nick and I are trying to do
as much as possible, is create aplace where we can tell you what
worked for us and what didn't.But like, most of it is we're
gonna, like, throw this and seeif it sticks against the wall,

(01:41:56):
and if it does, we'll circleback five years from now and
tell you, Do this, don't dothat, and it's a shame that
that's the way that the industryis, but it just kind of is that
way. And I think when you can beopen and honest about that, and
that, yeah, like, we don't haveit all figured out, and that a
lot of times we're unsure ifwhat we're doing is going to
work out, that's just the case.Like, that's our industry.

(01:42:20):
Unfortunately, it's not ascalculated as people may make it
seem to be, and that's why Ithink it's so important to lean
on people who have been therebefore and have trusted systems
that you can mimic and you cantry and implement integrate into
your business to at least giveyou some sort of advantage

(01:42:41):
instead of everyone starting outday one at the absolute bottom
and then fighting for 1015,years to just try and scratch
the surface of everything, andthen it's like, all right, I'm
20 years in. I'm finally makinga little bit of money.

Brady Fry (01:42:55):
Well, there's no room at the bottom. Everybody's at
the bottom. The bottom is supercrowded. So no matter what
you're going to do, you got tofind, like, some way to
interject some value, because,like, the bottoms where people
go to die. Like, yeah, me, like,I'm willing to start at the
bottom. I was like, well, youare not going to make it. You
better climb quickly ever whenyou're going to die. But, but

(01:43:16):
what if you had that sameperception, you know, you know,
imagine you got hired to build ahouse, a glass and steel curtain
structure, like, like, like alike, an Apple Store. Like, you
would go, Well, I've never donethat. Like, I don't know
anything about load bearingglass. There might be some
obstacles that you had mentally,but we overcome those. Like,
you're using a building claddingthat I had, wasn't familiar

(01:43:38):
with, but you go, Yeah, but it'snot about that I know
everything, but I know how tovet and proceed with things that
I don't know. So I don't have afear of the unknown as it
relates to building materials,right? Because you go, I'm going
to find this product, we'regoing to do some samples, we're
going to see how we want thisthing to course out. But I think
the same thing is true withbusiness like you don't have to
know it all. You just have tounderstand and have this level

(01:44:02):
head and how you're going toconnect dots and seek truth, and
then ask questions. And once youget validation from a couple
sources, you go, Okay, I'veasked three people that have
experience in this space,whether it's with a product or
about business. And then you go,Hey, man, I think I like know
which way the compass isimportant. Now, you know, I got
this answer. This is validatedby another person I trust. And

(01:44:23):
so we develop that kind ofcoping mechanism and that
navigational ability inconstruction. But then, like,
sometimes with business, like,we just, like, lose it. I don't
know, it's like, Hey, man, justlike anything else, if you were
trying to learn something abouta product or an installation, or
you would look for wisdom, wantthat wisdom validated, and that
would give you the confidence.It's really the same thing, and

(01:44:44):
it's why I think evenconstruction is such a kind of a
roadmap for how to navigate yourlife. Like, one thing I say to
my employees all the time, like,I'll start trying to give
instructions, and they'llthey'll head down and like, I'm
like, hold on. Eyes up, man.Eyes up. I'm trying. To teach
you. I want you to understandhow to build a house. If you
understand, you're never goingto be lost. If you try to

(01:45:06):
memorize how to build a house,you're going to be off track the
first obstacle you hear the hit.First time you hit an obstacle,
you're going to be you're goingto be befuddled, because this

isn't the way I've road mapped it, but once, I'm
never lost.

Brady Fry (01:45:21):
I'm never lost on a job site, ever I know how to
build a house. And so somebodygoes, Oh, man, the name
mechanical contractor, okay,this, this is my next path. And
so I think is there's a littlebit of that in business. Man, we
get it's so funny, because I gotall my employees are
outstanding, but my two real keyemployees that are my directors.
Like we're dealing with so muchtechnology and project

(01:45:43):
management stuff, like ourbrains are so fast, like all
these people come in todemonstrate their hardware or
their software, rather, andwe're already like, hey, we
don't think this is going towork. I know if you just see
this, like, 30 minutes laterthey get there. Why? Because we
do that all day long, and we go,yeah, you put this in and that's
going to, let's see what comeOh, yeah, it doesn't work. I

(01:46:03):
just trained your brain to like,to like, you know, process
information, find out what thepath forward is. And I try to do
the same thing with business. Isay all the time, guys, you
know, I was a good builder. Wasa long time ago, owning a being
a good CEO, like, was way harderthan I thought. I mean, the

(01:46:25):
personal growth that required ofme was like, I just thought,
hey, I'm a smart guy. I know howto build, you know, I'm going to
go out and, you know, have someof the success these other guys
are having. I am having some ofit. But, man, there was, like,
some days I was just like, maybeI'm not the guy you know.

Yeah, the building, the building is the easy, the
easy part, and I think that itis what you were just conveying,
is extremely important. I thinkit comes down to a lot of
wisdom, is not actually knowinghow, as much as being able to

(01:47:02):
ask the questions. And I thinkthat comes with experience and
with confidence. I can recallbeing younger and wanting
everyone to think that I had allthe answers, and being afraid to
ask questions, especially in thepublic's eye. And I think as I
mature in business and in life,I'm not ashamed of what I don't
know, and I'm more than willingto ask people for help with

(01:47:28):
regard to whatever it may be,life, business, technical
application, which I think comeswith experience, and I
definitely view wisdom a lotdifferent nowadays than I did
when I was 25 where I think Iwas putting up this facade to
pretend like I had all theanswers, and now I'm like, No, I

(01:47:48):
know I don't, but I surroundmyself with people that can get
me from point A to point B. Themost

Brady Fry (01:47:54):
important thing is just know how to search for
wisdom. Recognize it when youfind truth and you go, now, I
feel good, you know, and youknow, I think you guys are doing
outstanding. You guys are youngguys. And I think you might, you
might go from that frustrationto all those sacrifices just pay
it seem like they pay offovernight. It goes from just

(01:48:18):
toiling and rejection. I'll tellyou one funny story again,
there's an architect. One time Iwas boohoo and about my lack of
success and and he said, NowBrady. He said, You're gonna
have to understand, there aresome Brady jobs, but there's
gonna be other jobs. Are gonnabe more of a Jared Danford job,
and you need to be okay withthat. Jared Danford was a

(01:48:41):
project manager that had workedfor the most prolific builder in
Nashville at the time, and hewent out on his own. Every job
I've interviewed for. He got, Ithink, in three or four years,
he was out of business, not partof, I guess, part of the story.
The day I heard he went out ofbusiness, I drove over to where
his office was. There's a forsale sign in this yard, and I
bought his office. Littlevindication there. However, that

(01:49:07):
architect and I were both on atravel and learn trip to the
what's the Door Factory inDenver, Colorado, I can't
believe I'm forgetting about

it not read Therma. True

Brady Fry (01:49:20):
style. True style. We're trying to plant our rep.
Took us both out there. I mighthave I don't drink a lot, but
maybe this night, I drank alittle bit too much. Oh,
architect, who will go unnamed,remember that time you were very
patronizing to me, and you toldme that there was going to be
Brady jobs, and kind ofdiminished me, but then other

(01:49:41):
jobs are going to be moreesteemed, and needed to go to
this other builder, and I needto be okay with that. And I
said, Man, that guy got written,ran out of town with pitchforks.
And he said, Well, you should bevery proud of what you built. It
felt pretty nice at the time,but yeah, a few years earlier,
you know, because, and again,he's an accomplished architect,
I would still work. With them,but, you know, but I reminded

(01:50:03):
them, I try not to really lookfor vindication, but getting a
little bit every once in a whiledidn't feel

too bad. Yeah, can Well, Brady, we appreciate it
was very nice to meet you, andwe appreciate all of your time
and your insight and beingprepared for the conversation. I
really enjoyed and had a goodtime. And also appreciate your
being able to Audible a bit. Iknow we bumped this back a
little bit later than normal. No

Brady Fry (01:50:27):
problem. Like I said, it's rainy, rainy Nashville day,
and I'm sure I'll run into youguys in Vegas. Imma try. Yeah,
time to come have a cocktail ifI can get on my flights. Nice to
work out. So yeah, I got youguys your audience and stay in
touch. Because I'm telling you,I think you guys can feel that,
that that momentum just feelslike the dam just breaks and it

(01:50:49):
feels nice, but it's a littletougher road before that. Yeah,
we appreciate it. Amen. Yeah,yeah. Reach out anytime. Guys.
Take care. I see you some Brady

dude. I love birdie. I met him in Nashville
at our first summit, and we'vekept in touch kind of
sporadically, but, I mean, Ionly read part of his message,
but his message was, like,multiple messages long, but he
sent you a DM, yeah, because Ithink he was listening to one of
the podcasts, and he was justtalking about, like, the
struggle of, like, getting inwith architects in here. I mean,

(01:51:18):
he just dumped information, andI'm like, I'm not even gonna
read this. Let's just, I wrote,I actually wrote. I was like, I
appreciate you. Let's get you onthe podcast ASAP. What's your
email?

Yeah, that's great. I you can tell that he's he's
very excited about where he isand the work that's gone into
it. And just, I'm sure that hefeels as if he finally caught
his break. And I think thatthere is validation and
vindication, vindication there.And you can tell he's just like,

(01:51:52):
super pumped to share as much ashe knows, and how much of you
know, how much experience he'shad in life and in business. And
I think that that's reallyencouraging for everyone. 100%

as always, guys, make sure you check us out on
monocrossman.co. See you nextweek.

Unknown (01:52:22):
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