Construction Business | Design a Scalable Firm That Grows with You | Architect Matt Arnold - Modern Craftsman

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This process of designing andconstructing something is so

(00:03):
difficult and challenging, andyou need to, as a designer or an
architect, show up in so manydifferent ways being good
stewards of people's kind offinances. There are so many
layers to this that we asarchitects and builders need to
be participating in. This issomebody's life they're going to
build a home themselves andtheir family. They're going to

(00:23):
spend a significant amount oftime and money. We need to be
helpful in all that, stewards ofall that sympathetic and really
help these people. And we needto care like, like you have to
show up and actually care aboutwhat you're doing. If you don't
care, people are going to feelit on that other end.
Welcome to Modern craftsmanpodcast today. We are joined by

(00:46):
architect and entrepreneur MattArnold. He is the founder of
Arnold and which is a designstudio redefining how
architecture, development andconstruction intersect. We're
going to dig into what it meansto grow a business with
intention, the power of decisionmaking in design and how
becoming both a father and afounder reshaped his

(01:09):
perspective. This one's aboutcraft clarity and carving your
own path while leaving the doorwide open for collaboration and
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modern craftsman. Listen. SoMatt, I met you when you were

(04:49):
with another firm in Boston,architecture firm. You, you
actually mentioned it as adesign firm. So Was that
intentional? Like, is it not a.Architecture firm, it's a design
firm.
It's an architecture and designfirm. Yeah, I think that you go
kind of hand in hand,
so, but unpack that, because Ithink a lot of people,

(05:10):
especially a lot of people thatare listening, you're like,
that's the same thing, right?Why is that like, why is that
different?
Well, I think interestingquestion. I think, you know,
there's a lot of architecturefirms in Boston, and there's a
lot of architecture firms whokind of stay in their wheelhouse
of architecture. I think theprevious firm I was, I think we

(05:33):
could say the name, if it'sokay, has seen architects, you
know, transcends the normal boxof kind of being a built, you
know, an architect who builds.They do build. They do do
architecture, but they do somuch more in terms of interiors,
in terms of branding, graphicdesign, kind of being a thought

(05:54):
partner. They kind of reallyencompass the whole realm of
design in architecture, not justbeing an architect, and I think
that was, you know, a prettypowerful thing, and it's also
something that sets them apartpretty well. I think in this
industry, has
that always been, like, relevantwithin your industry, or is that

(06:16):
something new?
I think that's a bit new. Ithink David, you know, was, was
a, kind of a trendsetter therehe, very early on, realized,
like he wanted to have all ofthose parts in house, and so
that, you know, the completestory of a project from start to

(06:36):
finish could be told. Andcompared to, you know, hiring an
architect, then hiring aseparate interior designer, and
there haven't beencollaboration. And then even,
you know, in the hospitalityworld, hiring a branding
consultant, bringing that all inhouse, and talking about all
three of those disciplines inone parallel line from start to

(06:56):
finish, is something kind ofunique. You know, not every firm
has the ability to do that, andI think it was, again, it was
something very unique aboutHaseen.
I look back at when I firststarted using architects, and
even a lot of architects whowe've interviewed over the
years, and I feel like most oftheir outlook and just vision is

(07:20):
more objective and utilitarian,where it's like, Hey, we're
serving a function, right? Thisis for the process. This is in
order to get through zoning andget our submittals done and get
our approvals done, but notnecessarily like this
overwhelming vision behind it,which I think is pretty neat,
but I'm sure that there's a lotof challenges that come from

(07:43):
that. Like, I feel like, that'syou have this vision and you
want so much for it, and youcould probably get into it and
be like, Oh my god, it'd justprobably be easier to design
multifamily right now, and I'dprobably make more money.
That's very true. Yeah, verytrue.
I feel like, I mean, justrecently, we worked with a
smaller architect, and sat downwith them, and we were just

(08:05):
chatting through the hisbusiness model, and he's like,
I'm all volume. It's just like,I get you what you need for
permit, and then I stop, like,don't, you know, I'm not going
to tell you what kind ofWindows, like, I'm giving you a
permit set. If you have somequestions, I'll, you know,
we'll, we'll spend a couplehours answering like our intent,
but it's just that's, that's theway they operate. Where from for

(08:29):
my side, I I really align withthe way has seen works, the way
you you work, the way that thesebrand or these kind of all
inclusive firms work where theythey want to be part of the
story from, like you said thebeginning, all the way to the
end. I've talked about before,where, you know, one of the most

(08:52):
fun projects that we ever didwas this project that the client
literally left all hisbelongings and said, Throw
everything away. I want a brandnew place. And I want everything
brand new. When I show up, and Iremember the designer, you know
her like her eyes lit up. She'slike everything, he's like
everything, silverware and all.And she and it was, I remember

(09:15):
finishing that job, and we're,we're cleaning up, and they're
putting new silver and towels.And it was just, it was just a
way different experience. And Ithink for me, that's how I want
to operate anyway, and I canthink about the other side of
that, where it's like, you spendall this time beautiful design

(09:35):
execution, and then the clientmoves in. It's like
their furniture sucks.
It's like, I can't photographthis room. Or it's like, or I
gotta stage it, or you justfought like, it's like, you, you
fall in love with it. It's like,when you buy a new car, you put
your well, your kid is only 14weeks old, but eventually, when

(09:55):
they're five and six and seven,and you get a brand new car, and
they get in, they make how.Absolute mess out of it. You
know, it's like, oh, okay, likeI thought we collectively were
getting a new car looks like,only I believed in that,
yeah, absolutely. I mean,that's, that's very true. And
there are a lot of architectsthat operate in that realm. And

(10:16):
I think, you know, David in thefirm had that feeling early on,
and so wanted to kind of gettheir arms around it, so they
started to bring in these otherelements in house, so that they
didn't have to worry about that.Because you're right, like,
especially in Boston, especiallyBoston Proper, a lot of the work

(10:36):
we do is interior architecture,right? We're not necessarily
constructing new buildings onevery corner, right? So a lot
of, I mean, has seen does doground up new buildings facades,
but a lot of the residentialwork is kind of more interior.
So you can put all this effortinto paneling and beautiful
kitchens and living spaces andfireplaces, and you're right, if

(10:58):
somebody brings in furniture,regardless of whether you think
it's attractive or not, butdoesn't work with the concept of
the space. The space isunphotographable, right? And
this is regardless of esthetics,whether you like the furniture
or not, the furniture doesn'twork with the space. It's not
going to present itself well ina photograph, right? I'm going
to, I want to say something. I'mgoing to say something a little

(11:18):
bit controversial, because Ithink that I I have an issue,
not an issue. Your comment onthe fact that most of Boston
architecture is interiors. Iagree with you, and I see
projects around the world. Youand I have both shared those

(11:39):
projects around the world, and Ifeel like every time I see a
condo, like there's this oneparticular esthetic, I'm like,
oh, that has to be in Boston.And it's always the same.
Because I guess what I'm gettingat is, I don't think enough
people here in Boston arepushing the envelope of what
interiors could be, not inresidential like you talk about

(12:02):
hospitality, you talk aboutretail, for sure, but I feel
like the residential world withthese interior architecture
projects primarily, are the samething. It's like, you just like
you just rattled off. It's thefireplace, is the kitchen, it's,
you know, bathrooms and thenmaybe some flooring, but they're
not taking it to an elevatedlevel, whereas I just think it's

(12:24):
an underserved opportunity. AndI'm not not calling out anyone
specifically, I'm not that, andI'm not trying to backpedal
here. I'm just saying that Ithink Boston, in itself, has has
the opportunity to really pushinterior architecture up a notch
and produce at a much higherscale. Now, maybe I'm wrong,

(12:45):
maybe that, maybe that doesexist, and I just don't see it.
So I'd be curious what yourthought is on that.
I mean, I think it does. I thinkI think you're right. You know,
places like LA in New York havehistorically been a little bit
more bold in terms of theirarchitectural style, right?
Yeah, I mean, LA, because theydon't deal with the same kind of

(13:07):
weather and thermal requirementsthat we do in New York, because
it's New York, right?
What do you mean by that?Because I have something
Well, I think people are just alittle bit more bolder sometimes
in New York, you know, the thethere's people are okay, making
substantial financialinvestments into properties, not

(13:29):
that they're not in Boston. But,you know, I've seen that the
caliber of that in New York canbe quite different than here in
Boston by like three, likethree, 4x Absolutely, yes,
absolutely not. Some of that'sbecause of the price of the
property to begin with, right?Like, but,
but even, like, I had a builderon Instagram reach out, and he
was, he was asking aboutsomething we were using at 45

(13:51):
white oak. And he's like, oh,yeah, we're using something
similar, just a, he mentionedthe spec. And I'm like, Jesus,
that's a, that's an expensivematerial. And he's like, Yeah,
well, it's a, it's a two $50million renovation project. And
I was like, 250,
quarter of a billion. He's like,Yeah.
I'm like, is it a like, is it ahouse? He goes, No, it's a

(14:13):
penthouse in New York City. AndI'm like, wait a second, I could
you, can't you build the highrise for two 50 million? It's
just to think about the factthat someone like you said, just
has the the the desire to put aquarter billion dollars of money
into a penthouse, however manyfloors it is like doesn't even

(14:34):
matter, but it's so it's justBoston doesn't have that. I
could probably
buy a state somewhere else forsure, at least a town for sure.
Like, I own this whole town fora quarter of a billion dollars,
and
the other guys, like, I have apenthouse, insane, but I think,
and so I asked a friend of mine,who's just kind of tapped into

(14:57):
the residential, I'm sorry, thereal estate world here. I. Yeah,
I was like, dude, like, I don'tunderstand how, how does New
York, and it's not just one. Imean, there's, there's tons of
them that are, that are putting,you know, multiple hundreds of
millions of dollars in these,these buildings and condos and
in New York specifically. And itwas interesting what he said. He

(15:20):
was saying that Boston has thatmoney, and people live here, but
they don't spend the 100 millionhere. They're spending it in
Aspen or in in Florida orsomething like just somewhere
else, like they have a beautifulhome here that they spend a
couple 10s of millions ofdollars on. But it's not there.
It's not where they exhaustmoney, like people in New York.

(15:44):
And to your point, that'sbecause it's New York. I also
feel like, obviously, I'm not inBoston, but I think that it's a
little bit more traditional andolder, especially than LA, Oh,
for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah. I think, like thefolks here are a little bit more
traditional in nature. That canequal, sometimes being a little

(16:07):
bit more reserved in the typesof esthetics that they do where,
you know, at my previous firm,we did start to see, you know,
they were doing, starting to doquite a few second homes. And
that second home market isdefinitely a place where people
are willing to be moreadventurous with their money,
with their home, with theestablishment, than maybe they

(16:30):
were with their Bostonbrownstone. I mean, we had
clients that we did projectsfor. You know, their two
different homes in two differentlocations were very different.
Their Boston Home, felt Bostonand their remote home, whether
it was, you know, on the cape orout west, you know, had a
different esthetic to it, andthey were kind of willing to be

(16:52):
a little more playful with that.Some of that could have to do
with the maturity of the BostonMarket, like if you build
something too specific to you,people are always a little bit
afraid that it won't sell. Youknow, I don't know if New York,
maybe New York has just found away to kind of get past that,

(17:13):
like it just has that coolfactor. So they always know it
will sell if it's quality. WhereI do think still here people,
you know, they want to make surewhatever they do is for
themselves now, but it still hasthat market value down the road
is, is your, um, your goal foryour firm to have the same

(17:35):
approach and mentality as thefirm that You left
in terms of just like, yeah,holistic
design and being able to handlemore than just the execution of
the architecture. Yeah,absolutely,
I think. I mean, the one thing Ireally loved about, I mean,

(17:55):
there's a lot of things I lovedabout working at my previous
firm, but I did really love thecross collaboration between
different disciplines. I mean,I'm an architect, I'm trained as
an architect, I'm registered. Idefinitely come at things with a
very particular perspective, andI did, although sometimes
collaboration could be messy, Idid like the challenge from the

(18:17):
other disciplines in the office,when they challenged my
assumptions, when theychallenged my ideas, you know,
it usually resulted in a betterresult, right? Because there was
somebody coming from a differentperspective asking me questions
that I didn't think of. That isprobably the biggest thing I'm
missing right now in my ownpractice, is I don't have that

(18:39):
other discipline sitting next tome, but I am definitely working
on ways to bring thatcollaborative nature back, but
in a very different fashion. Youknow, I'm not, I'm not going to
be able to mimic the processthat I had prior, and so I'm
very interested in trying tofind a new way to do that and

(19:01):
that that a bit of like the whythe brand is kind of called
Arnold, and is it's to be openended right, to not be solely
about me being an architect, butto have the brand be rooted in
me, but allows, like, this orbitof collaboration to kind of go
around me, right? And so leavingthe Arnold and as an opening

(19:25):
allows me to really highlight mycollaborators, whether it's a
contractor or an interiordesigner or a graphic designer,
a fabricator, a mill worker orthe client. So it's, it's, it's
a, you know, it's a brand that'strying to celebrate the
collaboration of outsideentities, collaborating with me
as an entity, right? Instead ofit all being in under one roof.

(19:48):
Is that? Is that something thatyou feel like you developed
like, I guess, further on inyour career, I think a lot of
that like be like having anability. To collaborate and to
welcome that collaboration withopen arms and not, you know, put
up a wall, or say, hey, youknow, we're not going to do

(20:11):
this. Like, did that take acertain amount of experience and
self confidence to openlywelcome that collaboration and
some of those challenges? Or wasthat something that you've done
from the outset, not
100% it took time, yeah, forsure, as a, as a younger
designer, as a, as a, I guess, amore immature designer, you

(20:32):
know, I certainly wanted to be,you know, the loudest voice in
the room. And there was manyinstances where I was, but I
think over time, I definitelystarted to see the value and the
result of these differentdisciplines and really
understanding what they did incomparison to what I did. Yeah,
so absolutely that that tooktime, you know, it's not

(20:55):
something that I would expectanybody to get right out of the
gate, and you have to developsome of that confidence, you
know. I look back 10 years agoand unannounced to me, I think
I've actually always been aconfident person, but I didn't
actually realize that. So itactually took me a while to even
realize that I even did have theconfidence, like when people saw

(21:16):
me, I think they did see aconfident me, but I still had
the apostle, you know, and it'sstill there today in some in
some ways, but yeah, like, ittakes time to develop all that
confidence and to be able to sitback in the room and listen
instead of talk. And that'sreally hard to do. I still find

(21:36):
that hard to do with my clients.Like i i want to say something
because I have an idea, but Ihave to let them finish their
idea, because I really need tolisten, right? I can't just try
to Trump them with what I thinkis a better idea in that
particular second. It's, it'shard, it's a challenge. It's has
not been easy.

(21:56):
Yeah, I think that that's one ofthe biggest challenges that
people don't realize. Where it'slike you're you're trying to
gain experience experience anddevelop your skill set and just
really refine your craft. Andthe cheat code is to bring other
people in and to listen otherpeople and have people challenge

(22:16):
you. But it's so difficult whileyou're trying to develop that
self esteem and that ownconfidence within your ability
to be able to be challenged andbe comfortable with that and not
have that affect yourconfidence. Because I think a
lot of times at that point inour career, it's like we need
things to be going right. Weneed to be the loudest person in
the room, like we have toconvince ourselves that we know

(22:39):
what we're doing and when we'rechallenged a lot of times, it
can hinder that confidence andactually make us take a few
steps backwards.
Yeah, absolutely, I think, youknow, honestly, I think it also
as an employee, compared to theemployer, it's a different
dynamic as the employer, as theowner, you know, you

(22:59):
automatically carry someconfidence. And you hired these
people, you brought these peopletogether. So like, it just feels
like you're automatically alittle bit more encouraging of
that dialog where, when you'rean employee, kind of slotted
into somewhere, you're like,kind of like you're saying
you're trying to find yourspace, you're trying to get your
foot in, you're trying tounderstand your groundwork in

(23:21):
front of you and figure out howto operate in this kind of
system. So it's, yeah, it'ssomething that definitely took a
bit of time. I've definitelyrecognized it, identify it, but
I still have to be prettycautious about it, even in my
working, you know, day to daysnow, you said
that you're not going to be ableto structure your business the
same way that has seen hadstructured their business, as

(23:45):
far as collaboration andintegrating people into your
business. Do you can youspecifically put your finger on
why you won't be able to dothat? Or is that a decision you
know that you don't want yourbusiness to grow to a certain
size, or is this just going tobe more of, like a natural
evolution?

(24:07):
That's a good question. Like, Imean, I shouldn't say never,
because, you know, a part of thekind of Arnold and strategy is
like Arnold and architecturecould be Arnold and development.
I'm also thinking of Arnold andliving with maybe some product
line stuff that I'm working on,and it could be Arnold and
interiors, you know, so Ishouldn't say that I won't bring

(24:29):
it in house. But right now, thecharge is, I'm not trying to
build an interior design studio,right? I want to collaborate
with interiors folks because Ivery much value what they bring
to the table in terms of aproject. But I'm not in a
position to build out aninterior design studio
currently, because I'm buildingmy kind of architecture studio

(24:49):
in many ways. But yeah, it's,it's not out of the question,
you know, if, if the trajectorytakes me in a particular way,
and the right opportunitiespresent themselves with the
right. Folks, it's really aboutthe people, right partner or the
right person came along. Iwould, I'm open to anything. If
the right person comes along,you know, I wouldn't. Well, I

(25:10):
don't want to limit myself.That's part of the open
endedness with the brand, is Idon't want to limit myself. I
didn't want to brand myself asjust an architect day one.
Because what about day 5000 youknow, I don't know where I'm
gonna go. And that's been themost exciting thing about it.
The whole thing is, I don't knowwhat's next. So
do you have a specific or atleast, like a quantifiable plan

(25:36):
in place for the growth of yourbusiness? No, I am a man after
my own heart.
So many people this year haveasked me, What is your five year
plan? And I said, My five yearplan is to not have a five year
plan. Yeah, as you know, I Icame from a place where there

(25:57):
was a trajectory. It was a verynice trajectory, but I left
because I decided I didn't wantto go on that trajectory
anymore, and I needed to trysomething different, and I
wanted to still be open mindedto possibility. And so it felt
like in order to do all that, Ineeded to not have a plan in

(26:17):
place so that I could take asharp right turn when something
cool came, and it's fine. If Itake a left back and get back on
track, that's okay, but I reallywanted that flexibility. Do
you think that's due to yourcareer path in your industry,
being that it like thoseconstraints or having that plan

(26:37):
is going to limit your artisticor business freedom. I think,
yeah, I think for me, it couldhave, for me personally, yes,
like, just going down, if you'resaying, like, going down the
typical path, would I havelimited me as a person? Yes, I
think it would have, I think itwould have limited my
creativity. I think it wouldhave limited, you know, what

(26:59):
other potential design avenues Igo down in terms of development
or product or other things, Ithink yes, for me personally, it
would have limited me. I don'tknow that it's that way for
everybody. But
no, I don't think it is. And Ithink that you're you're
probably going to run into anexperience like the classic

(27:20):
struggle that we all face whenwe go off on our own, where it's
like, is my business going togrow, or in order to survive, do
I have to grow my business orscale my business to the point
where I don't get to do thethings that I love as much
anymore? And I think that thatthat's that's a real thing, and
that's something that I think alot of people struggle with, and

(27:42):
they they find that their onlyopportunity for growth is to
pull themselves out of the dayto day or what they enjoy doing,
and then start constructing andgrowing and and orchestrating
that business. And I think youknow that five years before you
know it, you look up and you'relike, I'm not doing anything of

(28:03):
what I wanted to do or why Iwent off on my own in the first
place.
Yeah, I think, you know, I thinkit's a very good point. I think
luckily for me, I mean, firstand foremost, I love
architecture, I love design. Ilove getting into something and
modeling it and drawing it, butit is not the thing I want to do

(28:24):
every single day, all day inperpetuity, right? I like
business. I like the pursuit oftrying to get work. I love
getting to know people andmaking relationships. I am a
people person. You know? I sayas my wife to my wife, I am a
pack animal. I do not roll wellby myself. You know, I get
energy from other people. Idon't I if I go to a business

(28:47):
event, I come home, my wife'slike, calm down, because I'm
about, you know, spinning energythat I get. And most people come
home, they're drained, right?It's like, Oh, my God, that
event was so much work. Not me.I come home on a super high. So
I'm I again, I still lovearchitecture, but I'm doing all
of these architectural thingsright now to get me to the place

(29:09):
where I can do exactly what I'mgood at. And that's actually not
the architecture, it'severything else, right? I need
to put the people, my my Julian,I need the people in place that
are excellent at thearchitectural things, so it
allows me to do what I do best.It's funny.
I was listening to anotherpodcast, and I'm pretty sure I
stopped and I was like, I needto write that down, because it

(29:32):
was so funny and so absolutelyunrelatable, as far as like me
internally. But it was veryrelatable where you you said, so
many people are good withpeople, but they are exhausted
by people. And I was like, Damn,that's me. Like, I can, I can be
good with people, but when I'mdone being good with people, I'm
like, I am so exhausted rightnow. And it sounds like you're

(29:53):
the opposite, complete
opposite at, you know, 830 on aFriday night, if I'm sitting
home watching TV. I'm asleep.You put them in a room of
people. I can go all night like,no problem, because I'm like,
in between you guys, because itreally depends on who I'm
talking to. Like, I can be atone of those events and just be
like, I'm here because I have tobe here. I'll talk to a handful

(30:15):
of people. I'll go home, and I'mI'm not rolling off a high it's
just like, all right, I I didwhat I needed to do and made
that one connection, but, but ifthe right topic comes up, I
won't show I won't shut up. Youknow, it's just like, if, one,
if the right thing happened,like, the right topic, the right

(30:36):
you know, we go down a rabbithole. I'll just sit there and
chat forever. And it's, it'sanywhere I go, even if I'm in a
group of, like, our friends, youknow, usually I'm pretty quiet.
I'll chime in here and there andbut if someone mentions a topic
that I have any interest in, I'mlike, All right, let's go. Yeah,
I'm ready. I'll talk interestingtwo hours.

(30:58):
Interesting. Was
it the development of your ownprojects that that were the
impetus for you realizing thatyou have other passions and like
this business andentrepreneurial spirits within
you, absolutely.
Yeah, I think I'm not reallysure what drove me to develop
some of my own kind of projectshere in town, but yeah, early on

(31:20):
doing that, like, I got aparticular high and level of
satisfaction out of thoseprojects that I hadn't quite
gotten in the professionalworld. I mean, I've done some
really amazing projects here inBoston practicing as an
architect, and those have beeninsanely gratifying. But I

(31:40):
would, you know, never give themup for anything. But, yeah,
developing my own project. Youknow, when I first did my first
one, back in 2016 I got out ofthat, and I was like, wow, that
was something different, right?I there was a commitment there,
there was a drive there, therewas a gratification there. At
the end, when that project wassold, and, you know, the funds

(32:02):
were distributed, and my portioncame to me. I was like, I it
just, it didn't feel real, youknow. And it definitely kind of
opens up, opened up somethinginside of me, and made me want
to pursue this more and more andmore. And, you know, I very much
thought actually continuing todo the kind of side project

(32:25):
development stuff was the pathforward for me. But due to the
real estate market and due tosome I tried to buy a couple of
pieces of property, it didn't gowell. I through that process, I
realized actually that thatmaybe that wasn't quite right,
and that it really just neededto be me being entrepreneurial,

(32:47):
me running the business, kind ofdoing my own thing is really
what I needed to do, likeflipping some homes. Yes, you
can make some money, but itultimately wasn't going to make
me the happiest version of
me. Yeah, right. That's what Iwas going to ask if, like, if
that project hadn't been, as youknow, financially successful, do
you think that you'd have thesame outlook?

(33:10):
I think so. Because, you know, Igot, of course, there's the
gratification when the checkcomes at the end, yeah. But
there was a year ofgratification before that, where
I had zero clue whether I wouldmake any money at all. You know,
I had no idea if I was puttingall this time and money into
this thing if I would make apenny. I had zero clue. I never

(33:32):
even really thought about it. Iwas just like, This is what I'm
doing. I'm building my ownproduct. I'm loving it. I'm
making every single choice. Ijust loved it. And then when the
check came at the end, it was itwas like, wow, that just got
even better, you know. So Ithink even if that project
didn't make any money, I stillwould have done it again. Did
you ever have that like intensefeeling when you were practicing

(33:57):
any sort of design, even if itwasn't in your professional
design career, like, when youfirst started dipping your toes
into that world, like, Can yourecall that you had that, that
same lust for wanting to learnand just increasing your
knowledge? Or, I guess what I'mgetting as, like, a lot of times
when I get into something new,I'm the same way where I'm like,

(34:18):
voraciously into it. And Iwonder if I'm like, if I do this
a couple times and then I get itlicked and I figure it out, am I
going to be on to the nextthing? But that's probably just
like, the addict in me, whereit's like, all right, I got this
figured out. I want somethingmore. I guess that's where I'm
getting at with that question.Like, is it just the hunger for

(34:40):
more and to to really justbroaden your reach and become a
more dynamic business owner orentrepreneur?
Yeah, absolutely. I think. Ithink for me, it is like, again,
I still am going to be anarchitect. I still want to be an
architect, but I think thatprocess made me realize there's
more to. Just being anarchitect, right? Architecture

(35:03):
is such a small piece of what anarchitect does. Right? They do
need to be a business owner,they need to be, you know, a
life coach. They need to be amarriage counselor. They need to
be so many different things.They need to be a leader. They
need to be sympathetic. There'sjust so many things. And I think
doing my own project made merealize that being an architect

(35:24):
a designer, was one piece to amuch bigger and more complex
puzzle, and I was moreinterested in the bigger piece
of the puzzle than just onesmall piece. It's
crazy to have that perspective.And I think a lot of times going
through that process on yourown, or even if you have a
client that you're like,emotionally close to more than

(35:47):
so I have a client who I workedfor for 15 years, since I
started in business. She gotdivorced. She lives on her own.
Her mom's now sick. She's like,I'm working on a project with an
architect with her, trying toget through that and like, we
now need a variant, and thezoning officer is giving me a
hard time because I'm trying toget answers for her. Meanwhile,

(36:10):
working with the architect, likethe team put together, she's in
the hospital with her momgetting like, cancer removed
from her body. And I'm like,they're like, there's, there's a
much bigger picture here than mejust being a contractor. And
oddly enough, it's like, it'simportant to me, and I think
that it's, it's very satisfyingin a weird way, like being able

(36:34):
to take care of people in morethan just the transactional
sense. And I can see that, likeif it's hard to understand that
if your relationship with yourclients or your you know, you
never see that internally,through building your own
project or working with your ownfamily or having clients that
you know you consider to becloser than just that

(36:56):
transactional relationship, butI think that there is a lot more
to it than face value a lot oftimes. And people don't quite
understand that 100%
I mean, like this process ofdesigning and constructing
something is so difficult andchallenging, and you need to, as
a designer or an architect, showup in so many different ways.

(37:19):
You know, I wasn't kidding aboutthe kind of counselor and the,
you know, marriage counselor,helping couples navigate this
decision process, being goodstewards of people's kind of
finances, right? There are somany layers to this that we as
architects and builders need tobe participating in. This is
somebody's life. They're goingto build a home for their
themselves and their family.They're going to spend a

(37:40):
significant amount of time andmoney. We need to be helpful in
all that, stewards of all thatsympathetic and really help
these people. And we need tocare, like, like, you have to
show up and actually care aboutwhat you're doing. If you don't
care, people are going to feelit on that other end, how much
of
I know you built your own house,I think you're looking to build
another house for your family.Like, how much did that

(38:03):
experience teach you about howyou need to cater your own
business? Like process forclients?
Well, I mean, my previous bossstatement has seen did say every
architect should build their ownhouse. And he is absolutely
right, because you can put lineson paper all day long, but until

(38:27):
you make a mistake and thecontractor comes to you with a
bill, you have to write thatcheck. Wow. That's an eye
opening experience. You know, Ialso think
from a decision makingperspective, like, you know, you
had mentioned that, you know,architecture is fundamentally
about decision making andknowing when to, you know, pull

(38:49):
a particular lever right, likewhen to spend when not when to
peel back. But I think that thatis something that you know from
an architect's perspective,building your own home, sure
you're going to run into themistakes and the cost of those
mistakes, but also pressure youto consider, well, are these
decisions I'm making, from thearchitectural standpoint, really

(39:14):
something that matters, or am Ijust spending money right where
it's simply just for the sake ofa small, we'll call them moment.
And I think that is, that'ssomething, you know, even going
even building 45 white oak, youknow, that is something that we
have spared, quite literally, noexpense on that home. And

(39:37):
there's that, and there's beencountless conversations about,
you know, Do I regret spendingon certain things? Would I have
done it differently? Would Ihave would I have spent that?
Would I have done that if I knewhow much it was going to cost?
And I can comfortably say, No, Ifeel like we've approached this
with a pretty, you know, goodunderstanding of what our intent

(39:59):
was. And that we're not makingfoolish decisions. But on the
other hand, it's like, you know,would I have spent that same
amount of money if it was my ownhome? I think so. But it's, you
know, but I, but I think untilyou go through building your own
home, you it's, it's almost asthough, like, the emotional

(40:22):
attachment. I think it reallycomes down to money. The
emotional attachment,
yeah, you're telling people tothrow out all their furniture
because it doesn't match. I'llbuild my own house. I'm like,
I'm designing this whole housearound this bed to save 500
bucks.
But I remember when we did ourTuckerman house that we, my wife

(40:43):
and I renovated. We, you know,I'll never forget we, the first
thing we had to order waswindows, and I decided to save
$8,000 on Windows because Ididn't want to pay for the nicer
ones. And I regretted it fromthe moment those windows showed
up in my site. And I wasabsolutely, that was just a
stupid mistake like that. Like,I should have paid, I should

(41:05):
have put the money where itmattered,
absolutely. Yeah, I have, I havemy stores like that too. There
are certainly a few thingsaround my house that I look back
and say, Why did I cheap out onthat? You know? Why did I not do
that? Well, you know, we waitedto put windows in after the
fact, which is a pretty easything, but like to renovate your
whole house, to have a brand newhouse and have shitty single

(41:26):
pane windows that rattled andthe wind blew. You know, it's
just it made no sense. And, youknow, at the time, the $7,000
seemed like the end of theworld, but in reality, it was
nothing. And there's a few otherthings around here too, that
every day I look at and I'mlike, Man, if I had just dropped
another two grand, it would havesaved me the last seven years of

(41:47):
headache. But I couldn't havethat perspective at the time.
Every dollar seemedunsurmountable, every additional
dollar, and it was really hard.But I think that is between that
and the development, like havingto have the vision, execute the
division, and then even indevelopment, sell division, you

(42:09):
know, really gives you this setof skills that you know, I
didn't even know I would need asan architect. Right? Everything
I'm doing is around kind ofselling in many ways, right?
Selling ideas, selling concepts,not selling in terms of
transactional but like you'retrying to get people on board
with your thoughts, your ideas,your your solutions for things.

(42:31):
And that takes a lot of work tokind of bring people along, you
know, educate them through theprocess. And I think, you know,
some of those experiences I hadon my own were just they, they
meant so much to me anddeveloped me as the professional
I am today. We
spend the beginning part of ourcareer trying to sell all of
that, and then I think it endsup getting a little bit easier,

(42:54):
where it's like, maybe theselling is not upfront. It's
more of the vision once you getgoing. But I think that like,
having the experience that youhad with your own place, and
then being able to, like, howlong have you been there? Now,
seven years. Now seven years. Sobeing able to live in that,
like, makes that selling,whether it's on the front side,

(43:15):
like in the middle of the designprocess, or on the back end,
that much stronger, because,like, you were speaking from
actual experience, and you hadfinancial stake in that project.
And it's like, listen, at thispoint in my life, I didn't have
the money to spend on this. Butlike, had I known what I know
now, I 100% would do whatever Ihad, like, I'd sell a kid to be

(43:39):
able to get this because, like,it's make our lives so much
easier. And I think that it's agood point. I think that most
people, contractor or architector interior designer like should
have to design their own spaceand be financially responsible
for that undertaking in order totruly understand, like a 10th of

(44:05):
what our clients go through,absolutely,
yeah, being able to literallyshow up in a sympathetic way. I
think I could, I just was ableto show up in a very different
way from my clients after that,I really understood, you know,
it's painful going through thisprocess. Sometimes it's not
easy. I mean, I think, I alwaysthink the result is well worth

(44:25):
the effort, but it you know, youguys know, construction is not
an easy thing, even when youhave great construction
partners.
I think that, you know, this iswhere a lot of builders and a
lot of our peers will talk aboutthe fact that clients should
just build smaller homes.They're trying to they're trying
to build the biggest home theycan for the least amount of

(44:47):
money. And obviously this comesback to client education. But on
the flip side of what we weresaying a minute ago, it's also
really important to you know,like the window discussion, like
the $8,000 i. Saved, not only,you know, not just pushing the
client to spend the $8,000 more,but explaining as to like, Hey,
this is an area that you shouldspend more. This is something

(45:09):
that's gonna be way moredifficult to change or update
later. You should reallyconsider, you know, kind of
spending money for thisparticular line item and and
approach it, yeah,empathetically, and understand
that, you know, a client'sbudget should be treated as if
it was your own. But alsoeducate them in a way that when

(45:31):
they're making these decisions,they're they make, they make
sense, and absolutely, ifyou're, if you're trying to
build an 8000 square foot home,and you're cutting back on by
putting cheap windows in, youknow, is that really going to
net you a good outcome? BecauseI've always argued that a big
reason why people leave theirhome or move or sell their home

(45:54):
is because they're, you know,
neighbors suck
that, but also that they, theyunknowingly, are just
uncomfortable, you know, andit's because of certain
decisions that were made andthat, you know, whatever it is,
the lighting sucks, the windowssuck. It's leaky. It's never
it's too hot, it's too cold, oror it just, you know, this is

(46:15):
poorly laid out. Every time Iwalk around the island, I hit my
corner on the My hip on thecorner. Yeah, there's all these
things that show up, and wedon't even know that we're just
building this hatred towards thehome. And instead of loving the
home where we sell and we go andbuy another one, thinking it
will, you know, resolve theissue, when in reality, you

(46:38):
know, back to, you know, anarchitect or and what an
architect is, and essentiallythe the decision maker. It's
that whole process. It's whythat role is so critical in this
this process is that there theseare the these are the things
that that matter to how someonelives in the home, and until you

(47:02):
know, until you experience thebad, and it's hard to ever know
what is appropriate. And Iwould, and I'll what I mean by
that is you're designingmultiple homes, right? So
you're, you're you're seeingthis at scale, where you know,
one person lives in one home andthen goes and builds a custom

(47:23):
home. And they, they think thatthey can do it themselves, but
they, they haven't experiencedall the the issues. So it's hard
to know what works or what'sgoing to be right, because
they've only lived in one andthey can only experience one
where, you know, as I said, anarchitect, experiences dozens
and dozens of times, andeveryone adds, you know, you

(47:46):
know, an education opportunityfor the next one.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, youdefinitely learn every project
has their kind of learningobjectives, right? That we we
learn at the end. But you'reright. That's, you know, the
reason why people hire anarchitect is to help them with
that whole process to make theirway through. You know, there's,

(48:09):
there's the folks that kind ofdo plans, right, like you kind
of talked about that earlier.There's, you know, some people
just do plans and they stepaway. And then there's
architects that actually, youknow, help coordinate and
execute the architecture, andthat's staying involved, helping
through all this crazy decisiontree that needs to happen

(48:30):
throughout the whole process.And, you know, helping people
like you, right? I mean, you'vetalked about this before, right?
Like working on a projectwithout an architect complicates
your life as well, right? Likeit's it's a lot easier when
there's an architect and correctme if I'm wrong in the decision
tree, kind of helping you getthe decisions you need from the

(48:52):
client in a timely manner sothat progress can happen.
Otherwise you and your team arespinning your wheels on site
trying to figure out what to donext, right? And if it's not
like I always say, if you don'tdraw it and it gets built, you
own it, right? If you didn'tdraw it and it didn't show up
the way you want it, well, youhave to pay to have that redone.

(49:13):
Where, if you draw it and itdoesn't show up the way you want
it, well, then you know, there'sdiscussions to be
I have a funny story about that.I we, we finished a job an
undisclosed amount of time agowith an undisclosed architect,
and we were done, like projectsdone, and they do a punch list

(49:35):
walk, and we all agree on, like,a handful of punch list, and
then I get a formal document ofpunch list items, and I'm going
through it, and I'm like, what,what is, what is this like? And
it was all these things that wedidn't do, like basically build,
and it was all these detailsthat weren't built and based on

(49:58):
the architects intent. And I waslike. Like, wait a second, we
don't. We don't have thosedetails. These don't even exist.
And I we had this conversation.It's like, yes, but that was the
intent. And, you know, I'm sorryI forgot that. They were like,
we didn't, we didn'tspecifically call that out. And
I'm like, Guys, you're notgetting this. They were in my

(50:19):
head. We are, we are done. Thisis not a punch I'm happy to do
it. Not a punch list like thatis thing absolutely, and it was,
you know, I would like to thinkthat it was, you know, no harm,
no foul, but that was, that wasdefinitely a fast one, you
know, interesting. But it wasjust like, in their head. They
didn't communicate it on paper

(50:40):
or anything like, allegedly, itwas in the rendering. You know,
yeah. I was like, yeah, yeah.But no,
if you don't try it, nobody
was on site when those criticaldetails were being executed. I
mean, there was, we had 1500photos of that, of that project,
every, you know, throughout thewhole project, like it could

(51:02):
have been caught way earlier andwould have been nothing, and it
was just everything's done, andit's like, oh, wait, we forgot
this.
I did not forget this. Lessonlearned. It was not
there. Well, I can say I havenot pulled that one before, and
you should try it, see if itworks.
So when you obviously newbusiness owner, new father, I

(51:23):
think that I heard were readthat like you decided you were
going to start your own businessand leave, quote, unquote,
corporate America, and you foundout that your wife was pregnant.
Like, shortly thereafter, likewith the timeline was very
close, right? Yes,
yeah, I I gave my notice on aThursday and Saturday, my wife

(51:48):
came, like, in the evenings andsat down, said, I need to talk
to you, dude.
She knew it before Thursday. Iknew I think she did.
She did, and she handed me apregnancy test. It was like,
This doesn't change anythingyou're doing, but
I wish you this on Wednesday.Yeah, so I guess where I'm

(52:10):
getting at with that is like,all right, you, I think you said
you're 42 maybe I caught that atsome point. So you're not young,
but you're having your firstchild, you're leaving your job,
you're starting your owncompany. Like, how scary was
this? Or did you feel that? Likeit's just time?

(52:32):
I mean, it was certainly scary,you know. I mean, there was a
lot of, yeah, it was, it washard. It was probably the
hardest decision, you know, I'vehad to make one, because not
only just leaving to start myown thing, but, you know, like
the folks that I was workingwith, I had been there for 15
years. They were my family. Youknow, I had my mentor was there.

(52:54):
Like there was, it was hard tojust leave them as people,
regardless of the whole kind ofjob thing, right? I just, I
wanted to be around these peopleevery day, because I had been
around them for so many years,it was really hard to even think
about the fact that I wouldn'tsee them every single day. So
that was one aspect, you know,the other aspect is, yes, going
out on your own, you know,needing to make your own living,

(53:18):
generate your own income, andthen also, now having a newborn
to or a child to potentiallycare for, you know, added so
many levels of complexity. But,you know, I, I went into it
with, again, the confidence, youknow, so much of this is just
kind of building the confidenceto be able to go out and do it,

(53:39):
to know that I could win thework to know that I could be
okay. And it was hard, but Iknew I needed to do it. You
know, it became a realizationthis year that this is something
I needed to do. I needed to liveout my version of my dream, and
I had to do it, and ultimately,to be happy. And, you know, I'm

(54:02):
very glad that I did it. It's,you know, it's certainly had its
challenges. But I thinkultimately, like in hindsight,
doing this well, having a childactually worked out way better
than I thought, in many ways,because having the flexibility,
you know, I have totalflexibility. Now, like I my

(54:22):
previous job was, I thought veryflexible, and they were, they
were extremely flexible with me,but I didn't understand what
flexibility meant until you workfor yourself, right? And I
really had 100% totalflexibility of what to do with
my day, how to spend my time,you know, needing to go to
doctor's appointments and behome with my wife while she's on

(54:45):
leave taking care of the kid. Ilove the fact that I was just
before this, he was laying onthe couch, you know, doing some
tummy time, and I got to hangout with him for five minutes.
That is a pretty special thingthat I definitely would not be
able to get back.
How the hell do. You have theflexibility that you do so new
into business, like, is is thissomething that you were taught

(55:07):
through mentorship? Is this youjust taking structure from your
past job? Because most peoplethat I know like start their own
business, and then they they,one of the the golden carrots,
right, is that they're going tohave freedom, and then they
start their own business, andit's like I have no freedom. So
how are you structuring that?Well,

(55:27):
I mean, it seems like I haveglimpses of freedom throughout
the day, but you're probablyright. You know, I don't have a
ton of freedom. Everything kindof stops with me. Everything
runs through me. So I can't juststep away from the business,
like, if I go on vacation, thatbusiness doesn't run right? And
that's a challenge, you know?I'm ultimately going to have to

(55:50):
work through that and figure outhow the business can run while
I'm not present. So it's, youknow, maybe in some ways, it's a
perceived freedom for right now,but the goal is to have more
freedom down the road. So
when you made that decision, Imean, I'm sure it wasn't
overnight, but did you, I knowyou don't have a five year plan,

(56:12):
but what type of I guess, likeobjective information, did you
use, if any, to understand thatyou are ready to go out on your
own. Like, was it, hey, youknow, I need to look at my
numbers. I need to know what weneed to survive. I need to know
how much work I need to land. Oris this, like, what I did, where

(56:33):
it's just gut check, and you'relike, Yeah, I think I can make
this work. Yeah, it
was a gut check I had. It wasdefinitely a gut check. You
know, I just again. It came downto that confidence, like I
finally could say to myself andfeel comfortable saying, I'm
going to do this on my own,right? And you know, that idea
had flowed through my head somany times in the past, but the

(56:55):
anxiety of the unknown swept itaway and said, No, you can't do
that, you know. And I finallyconquered that feeling and said,
No, I can do this. I can do it.There was also, you know, I had
a opportunity to do a niceproject, which certainly helped
sweeten the deal. And it kind ofexpedited things very quickly.

(57:18):
So that definitely gave me someconfidence on day one, but very,
very quickly, the phone juststarted ringing, and it was
pretty clear that, you know, Iwas going to be able to have
some reasonable amount ofworkload coming in. And then
it's, you know, it's just beenway more than I ever expected.

(57:41):
It's
funny because I think, like whenwe're anticipating all of this,
and we're projecting a lot ofnegativity, or like potential
for negativity on what we seethis transition looking like,
and you realize that, like whereyou are right now, and like, day
one of doing that, this is theworst it can ever get, right?

(58:03):
It's like, I'm getting ready toleave. We don't really have a
plan in place. I'm going offgut, and I'm leaving my business
that I've been with for 15years. Like, that's as bad as it
can get. And then it's just amatter of you doing what you've
been doing for the past 15years. Like you said you sold,
you brought in new customers tothe last company to work for,

(58:24):
and it's like, we anticipate itbeing so bad, and then it's
almost like the decision, orsaying it out loud, is breaking
free, like liberating from thosechains, and you can finally
breathe again. And then it getslike, considerably. It's it's
just like, having kids, it's adifferent kind of hard. But it's

(58:45):
like, once you get that off yourchest, it's so much easier just
to go through life every singleday and be like, I'm working
towards where I want to be.
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.And I think, you know, in
hindsight, with all this too.You know, working at a job,
there comes a level of anxietythat you have on your day to

(59:06):
day. You know, what am I doing?Am I making these people happy?
Am I progressing? Am I doing allof these things? And, I mean, it
wasn't overbearing, but lookingback, it was there, yeah, and
today, here, sitting now, I havenone of that, yeah, like,
there's different anxieties, butthey're, they're, they're just

(59:27):
so different. And like, some ofthose previous anxieties could
be a little, you know, theycould hold you back a little
bit. They could, they could nickyour limb a little bit, you
know,
because you're not being 100% ofwho you want to be like in the
back of your head, you're alwaysunderstanding that you're doing
this for somebody else's nameand like you're doing it the way

(59:48):
that they see fit. And I thinkthat it's not like 100% your
identity which you're willing tolike. That's it. It like you
said. It begins and ends withyou,
right? You also can't go to.Directly to the source of that
anxiety. It's when you'reworking for firm. It's, you
know, there's layers to that.Whether or not you're speaking
directly to the client, you'reyou're not in charge of how that

(01:00:09):
anxiety, you know, plays out,right? And I think that's the I
think that's a big challengewhen you you are, you know,
employee versus an employer. Butas you said, there's other
there's other anxieties on theemployer side that you know any
employees would would happilynot ever deal with. Yeah,
it's not, it's definitely notfor everybody you know. Did they

(01:00:33):
know or had you had theconversation with them
beforehand that you werethinking of leaving? Or was this
like, this is news to us? No,
I had the conversation. Iactually went on like a little
architectural pilgrimage out toFauci West, Frank Lloyd Wright's
summer home out there, and had abit of a realization that I

(01:00:55):
needed to do this. And this waslast February. Kind of came home
from that completely jazzed andspinning from all the
inspiration, kind of realizedthat this was something I need
to do. I spoke with my previousemployer, kind of let them know,
this is what I was thinking. Youknow, they said, you know, we're
surprised, but not surprised.Yeah, they he kind of knew, you

(01:01:17):
know, that maybe this wascoming. I guess he said, I'm
going to support you. And thenall of a sudden, there was an
opportunity, you know, somebodyI knew was buying a house, and
said, hey, I'll kind of be yourfirst client. And so all of a
sudden, you know, my firm cameinto fruition extremely quickly,
much faster than I anticipated.
I feel like that might, thatmight be the best case scenario,

(01:01:40):
though, was there a lot ofanxiety with, like, the quote,
unquote breakup, like, havingthat conversation.
I mean, I was certainly nervousabout it. Yeah, you know, it's
like, Absolutely, because I, youknow, my previous boss, David,
has seen he was, you know, mymentor friend. I really cared

(01:02:00):
about what he thought, and Ishould have known he would have
been supportive. But of course,that was such a hard
conversation. And you know, whenI told him all this before I
even had the opportunity, Ijust, like, met with him and
told him all the things thatwere in my mind, we had, like, a
really amazing kind of rawconversation as like it was not

(01:02:23):
an employee and employer,employer, it was kind of, you
know, two friends having a realconversation. And that was a
really, really special momentfor me, and I really appreciated
that so much, so much. Yeah,
that's super cool. I think aboutwhen I left my my full time job,

(01:02:43):
but in the parting words of ofencouragement. But what was it
that really encouraged you towalk away from that
conversation, going into it sonervous, but leaving kind of
really feeling as though this isthe right move. If there was any
specific, I mean, the specificwas he said, You know, I'm gonna
support you like, I'm notsurprised. I think you have the

(01:03:04):
ability to do this. You know, Iwant you to do it here, but if
you need to go out and do thison your own, he said, I'm gonna
support you no matter what youdo, 100% and, you know, just
having those words it, you know,said to me was like, I felt like
I could kind of take on theworld, and it swept away all of
that anxiety that I had, and,you know, just said, Hey, you

(01:03:27):
know, we, you know, one of thethings that's been exciting,
too, is like rebuildingrelationships with all those
people. Because he used to be myboss, he's not any longer, so
now he's a friend. So manypeople there used to be co
workers and colleagues, but nowthey're not. They're friends. So
it's been kind of reallyinteresting and fun to rebuild

(01:03:47):
my relationships with some ofthese people that I've known for
15 years, right? And kind ofinteract with them in a very
different way, right? And I've,I've really enjoyed that in many
ways. You know, we don't talkabout work like we used to,
because we don't work at thesame place anymore. And so I
think, you know, we've some ofthem were definitely already

(01:04:09):
serious friends, but I thinksome other are starting to
transcend a little bit more intothe more friend world than the
coworker world, which has beenpretty cool, and something I
definitely did not expect.
I want to talk a little bit. Youmentioned that one of your
favorite books was, I think it'scalled the 4am club, but your
your routine, your dailyroutine. I think that it's

(01:04:31):
important, obviously, havingchildren and owning your own
business now, but I'm intriguedto learn a little bit. You
mentioned a couple of times thatyou're an early riser. And I
just kind of want to know alittle bit more about that, to
be honest.
Well, I mean, have you seen orread the 4am club? I have not.
You should check it out. It'skind of an interesting book. I

(01:04:52):
don't
think I want to wake up at 4amthough.
You might have to read it. Yeah,you're an early riser right now.
I think you get up. I am. I'mlike, yeah, 445 5am Oh, that's
pretty that's early. Yeah,that's early. I mean, I'm barely
5am but I thought you were 4am Idon't get up at four. No, the
book is a 4am I feel a littlebetter about myself. Yeah. I

(01:05:16):
mean, that's 4am is the extreme.But I think I really found that
book interesting, because, youknow, the idea of it is, is
getting up before the worldstarts right, getting out in
front of the day, you know, andI cherish that now, even prior
to the baby, but getting up,having that hour to kind of set

(01:05:37):
the tone for me and myself toprepare for the day. Because
once that, you know, startinggun goes off at eight o'clock in
the morning. Some days, youknow, I barely even sit down and
it's 6pm and so if I don't chartout the things that I know I
absolutely need to get done,they'll never get done, because

(01:05:57):
something will always kind ofget in the way. So there are
early moments where the world isquiet, there's no emails coming
in, there's no phone calls, youknow, allows me to sit in my
room, here, in my office here,prepare myself for what I know
is to come. And it's always atidal wave, you know, and that's
fine, but it always allows me toidentify, Okay, these are the
things that need to happentoday. I have to do this. I have

(01:06:20):
to do this, and it you don'talways get it all done, but it
gives me the best chance ofaccomplishing what really needs
to get done. It's also where Ilike to do a lot of my thinking.
I like to go out and runs earlyin the morning before the sun
comes up, especially in thesummer. It's nice and cool with
the dog. You know, that is likeme time, you know, put the music

(01:06:41):
in. Think about what I'm doing,where I'm going, ideas, it's I
end up going for, you know,three, four or five miles. I get
to the end, and I barely evenrealized that I was running,
because I was thinking so much,you know, and it's kind of, it's
really the only place that I getto have that kind of thought

(01:07:02):
time, really by myself, becauseit's, you know, the world's
quiet
for me. When did you start doingthat?
The early rising running stuff?Only a couple years ago, I
started to do I started torealize how much more I was
always kind of an early riser.But I started to structure my
mornings better. I used to justget up, make breakfast, watch

(01:07:22):
the local news, which I still dosometimes, but it made I started
to learn that there was a muchbetter use of my time early in
the morning in terms ofpreparation for my day. And once
I started doing it, I realizedhow important it was. And when I
don't get it it, you know, Inotice it throughout my day, for

(01:07:43):
sure.
Do you feel that it's so and Idon't think that it's this way,
and I think that people have tobe careful of this where it's
like, it almost sounds as thoughyou're waking up to be able to
structure the rest of your day.But I also think that it's and
correct me if I'm wrong, thatit's got to be important, that
it doesn't have to be like anact of work where I'm going to

(01:08:07):
sit down and I'm going to startfiguring out how to structure my
day for the most efficiency,where it's like now I'm just
adding an additional three hoursof work to my day like this is
like a very freeing mentalexercise for you where you're
not necessarily engaging ineverything else from a work
perspective,
absolutely, yeah, you definitelyneed to find what works for you.

(01:08:28):
Like, I'm not doing billablework at five o'clock in the
morning. You know what? I mean?It's, it's really the me time.
It's thinking, it'sstrategizing, that sometimes
it's just working out orrunning, you know, but it's just
being more intentional aboutthose morning, morning hours,
and trying to set yourself upfor success, you know. And I
think to the working out, youknow, in the morning, it always

(01:08:51):
gives me more energy throughoutthe day, yeah, and it gets me
going, it propels me into theday. I just always feel so much
better when I move my body inthe morning. I just, I'm not a
person that can do it at night.You do it on the weekends. I do,
yep, not quite as early, but Istill like to get up, especially

(01:09:12):
now with the kid, yeah. Like, Itry to get up before the kid
every single day, just to havean hour before he gets up,
because, you know, the energy inthe house changes once he's
awake. It's not a bad thing, butit just
changes. Do the I mean, theability to be in deep work mode
is, I mean, it's just a gamechanger. And I find that

(01:09:34):
airplanes, for me, it's Sam, youknow, I put some music on, and I
can sit there and work theentire flight and get in a
tremendous amount of work done.You know, I usually work out in
the morning one morning a week.I don't, so I come in the office
same time. I just get here at5555, 30, and it's, you know,

(01:09:54):
I'm I got an hour and a half ofjust deep work, and I can get
more done in that hour and ahalf than I can you. Half my day
and but then it's during theday. It's just a gong show. And
if I to your point, if, if Idon't have, if I don't have,
just a simple to do list, mybrain goes in a million
different directions in themoment, like, oh, I should get

(01:10:15):
back to that person and I'lljust pivot and and then go write
an email responding to someonethat reached out to me yesterday
or in that moment. So for me,you know, I the the morning
thing easy. I'm up early. I liketo work out. I try to switch to
middle of the day workouts,because everyone's like, Oh,

(01:10:37):
you'll get this burst of energyin the middle of it. I couldn't
do it. I'm like, yeah, it's justthis, and certainly not going to
happen at the end of the day. SoI got to stick with the morning.
But for me now it's just I'mnow, I'm thinking about, okay, I
know I have all these thingsgoing on. I work really well in
deep work, and I work reallywell with to do list. But now

(01:10:57):
it's, do I just have thisrunning to do this all week, or
do I block out Monday, Tuesday,Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, for
individual, like, focus, andthat's what I've been this is
like, literally active, like,the last week, where it's all
right for now on Tuesdays aregoing to be strictly modern
craftsman podcast content.That's it. Like I have all these

(01:11:20):
sales emails I gotta get back.I'm like, Nope, that's for
Thursday. I'll just focus onthat. I'm curious to see what my
like, what my capacity, how mycapacity will change, because
earlier today, I looked at my todo list. I'm like, I'm done.
Like, I've finished everything Iwas supposed to get done today.
Wow, which didn't mean I hadnothing left. It was just, Hey,

(01:11:44):
you said that these are thethings that you're going to do
on Tuesday. You've accomplishedit. So be interesting to see if
that that truly helps or not.
I'd love to hear you maybe talka little bit more about that
moving forward, because I wouldlove to know if that works,
because I would love topotentially Institute something
like that myself. We used to atthe office try to do some focus

(01:12:07):
times where, you know, twice aweek in the afternoon, there was
no meetings during certaintimes. And we tried to set some
parameters around the office toreally allow us to have that
kind of deep work time. And it,you know, it had some success.
It's harder to do in a biggeroffice, but I've definitely
thought about that on myself, myown, to like, should I be

(01:12:29):
setting certain times of the dayor the week that I just I don't
answer emails, or I don't haveclient calls, or
I'm a full believer, and I'vemessed around with it in all
different kind of formats. Youknow, previously I just in my
calendar itself. I just said,you know, I'm blocking out two
hours twice a day where it'sdeep work, no interruptions. And

(01:12:51):
you go, I sit in my office and Idon't answer like my emails
closed, everything gets closed,and I have to work on something,
and just do that completelyuninterrupted. And same thing
from meetings, I basicallyblocked out of my calendar. You
know, certain times I would takemeetings and then just give
everyone the calendar link. It'slike, if you need a meeting with
me, here, you can have a halfhour slot with me, and that's

(01:13:14):
the only time I'd be available.
And your staff abides by that.
Well, I think it's just at theend of the day that it's,
there's no option, you know,they'll ask me, like, Hey, can
you meet earlier? Can you dothis? Then, of course, like,
there, I'm not, I'm not rigid inthe sense, like, Nope, you have
to abide by it. But I think bysetting the the expectation up
front, then it just, it justnaturally gravitates toward that

(01:13:39):
where it's, you know, if you're,if you're constantly doing it,
you set this structure, and thisis what works for you. A good
friend of mine did it. I, youknow, I called him one day. I
was like, hey, I want to talkthrough this deal. He goes, we
got to talk tomorrow. I'm like,Oh, my bad. I didn't realize
you're busy. He goes, No, I justdon't talk about anything money
in the afternoon. I only do thatin the morning. And I was like,
Oh, that's interesting. And hewas like, Yeah, I just, like, my

(01:14:01):
brain, I'm not, you know, at theend of the day, I'm winding
down. I don't want to talk aboutmoney, like, it's just not, it's
not, it's not how I operate. ButI would say, I mean, regardless
of what, like, I don't thinkthere's one format that works
for everyone, but I think thathaving some sort of repeatable
format, but really specifically,like, how can you dedicate deep

(01:14:24):
work? And you'll find, like,that's where you make the most
progress. And I've done, I'vekind of bought into all the
stupid Instagram hacks. I gotthe timer, Alex for mosey has
that actually works great. It'slike, this little timer on your
desk you set and it's like, Iwant 45 minutes of honor and
uninterrupted time just seeingthat thing tick there. Number

(01:14:45):
one, you. It's like watchingyou. It's like, don't touch your
phone. Like you got 45 minutes.I'm not done yet. But the other
thing it does is it makes merealize just how long shit
takes. Interesting. It's like,I'm working and I'm and I think
I'm getting. Ton done, and I'velooked down, I'm like, wait,
that was 45 minutes, yeah. I waslike, I mean, Tyler, you and I,

(01:15:06):
like, with all the stuff we'vebeen doing with the podcast,
it's, you know, it's like, Oh,I'll knock that out. And it's
like,
no, take a little longer.
It's like, man, but I think whenyou, you know, to your to, like,
starting a business, having freetime you talk about it, and
having the freedom, I think,without, without doing this,

(01:15:30):
because, speaking from myexperience, without structuring
this stuff, your freedom getseaten up real quick. Yeah, it
will. It won't always be thesame thing. It won't always be,
Oh, Matt works until nineo'clock at night. It will then
be like, Oh yeah, he's homeevery day at six, or he's
available at six, but he nowhe's working Saturdays or, or
maybe it's not either that andit's Yeah, but he hasn't taken a

(01:15:51):
vacation in three years. AndI've been that person on all
ends of it. And it's, it's, itsucks, like, I've, you know, the
last year I went through deep,deep, you know, valleys of
burnout, because I was justtrying to do way too much, and
my my attention was just beingspread so thin. It's like, it's

(01:16:16):
like exercising. They say, youknow, you can exercise all you
want, but if you don't let yourbody recover, it's, it's,
you're, it's, it's pointless.
I feel like now is the time tostart implementing those. And
yeah, you're, you're going tohave to adapt, and you're going
to have to alter them. But ifyou can structure a successful
business that is, you know, notan extreme investment of your

(01:16:39):
time, where you're just puttingway too much time into your
business, you could startstructuring those things now and
not create a lucrative businesswhere you're really cheating the
amount of time you're puttinginto it. I think that you'll be
that much more successful movingforward, because if you can't do
it now, as you get busier, howare you going to handle it's

(01:16:59):
like, Oh, I'll hire people, andit just gets more complicated.
So, yeah, I think like startingto implement those ideas and
structure your day as you seefit now, and ensuring that your
business is profitable andsustainable based on those
constraints now, I think isgoing to be like, immensely

(01:17:21):
helpful as you move forward.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can,I can see this writing on the
wall, and it's so easy to justwork, work, work, work. There's
always more to do. There'salways something else I can be
looking at, from a projectstandpoint to a business
planning standpoint, to anotherevent I could be going to, to
try to make a contact with thisperson. And, you know, this past

(01:17:44):
fall, you know, I was working asignificant amount, you know,
6070, hours a week, you know,six, seven days a week. It's,
you know, it's new, it'sexciting. Yeah, you know, I'm
trying to get things going. But,you know, I'm 42 I have a
newborn. I can't do that, right?Yeah. So I need to, like, you
know, reassess everything. Andthat's also one of been the most

(01:18:07):
exciting things about kind ofbeing on my own is like, I have
to, out of necessity, reassessevery time that I need to do
something new. Like, how am Iapproaching this? Am I doing
this because this is the way Idid it prior, or am I doing this
because it's the best use of mytime, or the best way to do this
thing right in front of me rightnow? So like, having that

(01:18:29):
wherewithal to be, likequestioning all of that, then
making sure I am investing mytime in appropriate places is
really important, you know, likeone of my first story things,
it's, you know, it's silly, butlike, end of month one came, and
I was like, Holy shit, I gottasend an invoice. And I didn't
have an invoice template, and Ispent an entire day designing an

(01:18:51):
invoice. And I was like, thatwas the that was a waste of
time, you know, because I wantedmy logo to be the first,
you know. And guess how longthey looked the invoice. Enough,
zero. Pay Now, exactly,
exactly, yeah. And so, like, Ithink about that, I'm like,
Okay, well, I can't do that. Andthere's way more things you
could do that on, on a much,much bigger level, where you

(01:19:14):
could spend, you know, days overthe course of the month, working
on something that gives you zeroresults.
I'll give you, I mean, twopieces of advice, you know, ask
for or not. But earlier you saidmy my five year plan is not to
have a five year plan. I wasthat way forever and until, I
don't know, maybe it must havebeen over two years ago. At this

(01:19:38):
point, I started working with acoach once a month, and just
chatting through, like, what mymy vision was for the company,
and he asked me the same thing.I'm like, I don't have one
because then how the how thefuck do you know where you're
going? And I was like, Well, Iknow he's like, I get that you
have this vision, and I get thatthis is what you want to do, but
you need to understand, like,what. What are the things that

(01:20:01):
allow you to get there? If youwant to be doing, if you're
only, we'll just use revenue.For example, if you're doing a
million dollars in revenue, andyou want to be doing $2 million
in revenue, that's not just aI'm just going to do more work.
You know how much you'respending on marketing, you need
to double that. I don't knowwhat I'm spending. Well, until
you know what you're spending,you can't double it, and you

(01:20:21):
can't double it if you don'tactually have the cash to do it.
So there's all these parts andpieces that are obviously
intertwined. And I think for me,that was that when, when you
start, when you started, when Istarted breaking it down and
realizing, hey, you know, thisis my revenue goal, because at
this revenue, at this margin,this will net me this much money

(01:20:42):
for my family, and work back andwork backwards from there, and
then realizing what that meantfrom a monthly perspective, a
weekly perspective, a peremployee perspective, and then
just got to a point where I'mlooking at all these numbers on
this dashboard of understanding.You know, when I tweak this,
that tweaks or understanding,it's like, hey, every 250

(01:21:05):
potential leads that come in,two of them convert. And when I
went through that math, I'mlike, wait, what? And it's, I
mean, you're, I'm talking like,like, like someone that fills
out the form online, that islike, clearly not a customer,
but when you start going throughthat, it made me realize where I
need to focus my energy. Hmm,the other, the other thing is,

(01:21:31):
what you said about, you know,creating the invoice template,
you know, making, you know,being at another networking
event. I have these love, haterelationships with these
projects, because, you know, inmy mind, and until I'm blue in
the face, I will tell everyonethat there is an ROI and I can't
measure it, but you have totrust me. And everyone's like,

(01:21:53):
sure, I guess. And I don't knowwhy I say because I don't even
know if I believe, like, halfthe time, I don't know if I
believe it, but, but it'simportant to me and the way we
present ourselves, right? Youknow, you know, we have these
booklets that we hand out.They're in black envelopes.
Those black envelopes are brandlike none of it, quote, unquote

(01:22:14):
matters, but it matters to me,and it matters to the the
experience that we're going topresent. You know, just like
when you're your your fulldesign architecture studio. It's
that entire experience, right?Yeah, so that's these are the
things that are important. Butwhat I found is that I was
spending a tremendous amount oftime trying to do this when copy

(01:22:35):
isn't my strong suit. Branddesign is not my strong suit. I
understand what I understood,what I wanted, but it what I was
trying to do it myself. I'llgive you a great example. I'm
getting it next week so I couldtalk about it. But I created a
book, book from a project thatwe built. And we've We
professionally shoot everyproject that we built once a

(01:22:57):
week. So by the end of aproject, I have anywhere from 50
to 70 folders of each week ofconstruction progress for for
two years since this project'sbeen completed, it's been two
and a half now I've wanted totake those and create a book, a
coffee table book, for myClient. And I tried to do with a

(01:23:22):
couple people. They couldn'tfigure out how to best do it. I
started to do it. I was like,this is like, I cannot be
spending my time doing this.This is insane. And finally, I
was like, You know what? I justneed to find I need to delegate
this, and I need to findsomeone. It does make sense. And
I kept I asked around, and afriend of mine was like, Oh, I
know a publishing company thatmakes books, and they actually

(01:23:44):
can do this stuff. They do crazyprojects where they'll print
stuff overnight for you. Ireached out to him. I said, Hey,
this is what I'm trying to do.And here are the here are the
folders. And they wrote back,and they're like, Hey, we can
have a draft on we need fourdays for a draft and on
approval, I can have chipped outnext week. I was like, Wait, did

(01:24:08):
you did you see how many photos?They're like, yeah. Do you want
them laid out any specific way?I'm like, just chronologically
and just take out, take the onesthat look the best. Like, yeah,
no problem. Four days later, Ihave 140 page book fully laid
out every photo, and I'm and theMy point here is there's going
to be things like the invoice,there's going to be things like

(01:24:29):
the experience and these bitsand pieces of the business, but
they need to be you need todelegate that and delegate it
when, when it's appropriate, andfocus on the core offering that
that is your business, becauseultimately, that's, that's what
will when, when that fails, theclient experience goes down.

(01:24:50):
When you don't have the book,the client experience just
remains neutral. Yeah,absolutely,
yeah. That's good advice. That'sgreat advice. Yeah,
that's. So don't think you needa five year plan in place
outside like what Nick said, isdecent, but I think decent the
you need a

(01:25:11):
five year plan. You just need toknow where you're going.
No you need to know where youare, because if you know where
you are, which nobody knowswhere they are, you can
determine how you want to moveforward. If you fully understand
all of your numbers and and theimplications of the decisions
that you're making today, youcan make a decision as to where
you want to be in five years.Just know where you are now,

(01:25:32):
like that to me, that's asimportant. You can make a
decision on where you want tobe, but like, understand what
every how your business isimpacted on a daily basis, and
how much time you're puttinginto your business. And I think
it'll give you a pretty goodindication of where you need to
go. Yeah, I'm just, I'm justgetting to that point myself. I
finally have a bookkeeperhelping me with my books. I have

(01:25:53):
a financial planner that'shelping me. I'm meeting with her
for a second time tomorrow, soI'm finally getting the kind of
the foundational elements inplace with my business. I was
able to see Profit and Lossreports for the last couple of
months, see where all the moneyis going in terms of what I'm
spending it on. So that waspretty cool, and eye opening to
see all that. And I need to kindof continue to build that up and

(01:26:18):
spend more time kind of lookingat that, and I really do want to
try to figure out I have a kindof a leads tracker that a friend
gave me. I really do need tospend some time filling that out
to try to see, to track wherethe leads are coming through,
how they're passing through me,where are they coming from,
because you do end up spending alot of time going out, meeting

(01:26:41):
with people, writing proposals,and then you never hear from
them again, right? And I'mcurious to see if, what's the
follow up
point? What like, you know,where did that? Is every lead
that comes through your website,trash, it's, it's those things
that, like, yes, Tyler said,understanding where you are. For
me, that's what, you know, whatwe determined is every lead that

(01:27:02):
comes through our websiteabsolutely like we're just not.
It's not being we're not they'renot self qualifying correctly,
because we don't have the rightinformation there. At one point,
like, we were getting atremendous amount of people just
thinking that they were a goodclient. And it was because we,
we, we we didn't narrow down thethe information appropriately

(01:27:23):
interesting, but to your point,you know, or in answer, Tyler's
point, like understanding whereyou're at and understanding, you
know, the stuff that is movingright, the leads coming in. You
know, for me, I'm, I don't havea great system for lead
tracking. I have one that worksfor me. It's something that's on
my little like forever to dolist of create something that's

(01:27:43):
better and more automated. Butright now it works. I have a
list of active opportunities,and I will ruthlessly follow up
with you until you tell me No,and that's and I have found that
that has been the best thingthat I ever implemented, because
I would have clients that Iwouldn't talk to for months and

(01:28:04):
months, some didn't even respondto me, and finally, at one
point, they were like, Hey,sorry, it's been so long, but
now, like, we're now, we'reready, and it's only because I
would just follow up them. Theywould tell me, Hey, reach out in
a couple weeks. All right, noproblem moving that two weeks,
and I will follow up with youtwo weeks from this moment,
right now, and just and justunderstand and offer and say,

(01:28:28):
Hey, seems like you're notinterested. But if there's
anything I could do to help thisprocess, let me know. And I have
one client say, you know, I waswaiting on the architect. I'm
not getting anywhere with them.Maybe you can help. Yeah, no
problem. Let me, let me have aconversation with the architect.
Maybe, maybe the architectdoesn't, isn't getting the
information they need. And Ican, I can be that person that
helps get it right.
Yeah, that's super interesting.That's super I've had a couple

(01:28:51):
of experiences like that too,where people have kind of gone
dark, and I've sent a follow upemail as like a Hail Mary, and
then all of a sudden theysurface. I'm kind of starting on
a project like that right now.But yeah, I think it's all about
following up, being top of mindfor people. And you know, again,
like respecting that life doesget busy, right? Yeah, around

(01:29:13):
the holidays and stuff likethat. People's life gets super
crazy, and sometimes their Ithink their intention is
probably to get back to you, butsomething else just kind of
keeps getting in their way. Soif you can get back to the top
of their inbox, you know, youhave definitely a better shot at
kind of closing the deal, or,you know, getting to that next
step. Yeah, yeah.

(01:29:33):
Top of Mind,
lessons learned again, frombuilding your own place or or
working on your own projects.It's like, even sometimes making
decisions with my wife where I'mlike, Well, now I know why a
client doesn't respond to me,because I'm 10 feet from her and
I can't get the answer to thequestion, because something else
comes up. So like, it's not justclient ignorance, it's that

(01:29:55):
life's extremely chaotic, and Ishould probably um. To have a
little bit more empathy for thesituation that everyone's in.
Absolutely, absolutely. I couldsay one thing, like in the
decision making with our projectand my wife, when we started our
project, I was like, I knowevery single product that's
going into this house. And guesswhat she said, Oh, yeah, yeah.

(01:30:19):
And that is where I learnedcompromise.
Dude, Matt, we so we arestarting our renovation, like
actually starting in just a fewweeks now, and when we started
this project, we my wife islike, I literally don't care
about anything. I just want thislight fixture somewhere in the
house, and I want a speed Queenwasher, dryer, and I think there

(01:30:44):
might have been, like, one otherthing. I'm like, great. And I
just ran with it. And we were infinishes, selections and
renderings are coming together.And then we had a conversation
about, she's like, I don't likeany of that. And I was like, I
was like, I thought you shouldjust do whatever you want. I'm
like, nope, nope, no, no. Thisis like, I'm not gonna just do

(01:31:07):
whatever I want. I thought,yeah, I thought we're on the
same page, like, I would neverdo that. I'm like, Well, what
would you do? She's like, Idon't have the capacity to think
about it right now. Okay. I'mlike, All right, let's put a pin
in that. And are you good withthe layout? And then that was
wrong. So I was like, All right,you tell me, we'll fix the

(01:31:27):
layout. Now we get the layoutdone. And I'm like, All right,
at some point we need to carveout a weekend and chat about
what we think this is going tolook like, because I have a very
clear picture in my mind. But mywife's also very practical. So
she'll be like, you know,whatever cleans the easiest. I'm
like, Yeah, kind of want myhouse to look like it belongs in

(01:31:48):
a magazine all the time. Shegoes. You have four children
under the age of 10. You're not,you're not living in a magazine
house.
Could I do it for the photos?
But yeah, compromise is, yes, agreat lesson learned.
Yes, absolutely, something weall need to learn a lot about in
life.
Yeah, we appreciate your timecoming and hanging and obviously

(01:32:12):
you have a lot going on, a loton your plate. It sounds like
it's heading in the rightdirection.
Yeah, I think so I'm veryexcited. There's a lot coming up
for 2025 I got a lot of excitingprojects ahead, a lot of cool
stuff. I'm very pumped for theyear ahead. It's gonna be a busy
year for sure, but a lot of funstuff, lot a lot of fun stuff.

(01:32:36):
Yeah, I mean, it's really neateven, and I think it comes
probably with experience andmaturity, but just from the
outset of starting your businessto create a brand that leaves
the door open to multipleopportunities, I think is really
cool and a really good takeawayfor a lot of people that I think

(01:32:59):
most people probably don't dobecause, you know, a lot of
times their business is theiridentity. It's their namesake,
and they're not necessarilycreating it to leave a door open
for collaboration. So I thinkthat that's, that's really cool.
And hats off to you for that.Oh,
thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I, Iknew from day one that I didn't

(01:33:21):
want to be just kind of, I wasgonna call it Argan Arnold
architects. But you know, thatjust did not seem very enticing
when
you launched the Arnold and Iwill, I didn't even mention
this. I genius. I read it. I'veread your post. And I was like,
Dude, you know, so good, like,from, from so many, like, just
for so many reasons. I thinkit's just, it's very well done.

(01:33:46):
I'll leave it. Thank you verywell. Thank you.
I had a great partner thathelped me design agency Bell.
She was a kind of brandingpartner. She did a great job,
and she really kind ofchallenged me and pushed me in a
lot of directions. And, youknow, asked me a lot of
questions that I wasn't preparedto answer at first, and it took
me a little bit of time to kindof really think about it and how

(01:34:08):
I wanted to approach some ofthis. So I, you know, I was
grateful to be pushed outside ofmy comfort zone, because it's
certainly easiest just to rundown the path that I knew. And,
you know, even starting all thisout, actually, I started
building my own website. Likeevery architect can brand
themselves and build their ownwebsite, I very quickly was
like, Well, I don't, I can't dothis. I have no idea what I'm

(01:34:30):
doing. Good on you for realizingthat, yeah, and so I'm glad I
brought in a partner, and I'msuper excited about it.
What's a good website foreveryone to check you out? It's
Arnold ann.com
A R, N, O, L, D, A N, d.com,
there we go. I appreciate you,man. I'll see you soon. I'll hit

(01:34:52):
you up for coffee.
All right. I love it. Yeah.Thank you so much. Wait to hear
the next one. Sweet
Matt's good dude, you. I had methim when he was at his scene,
and then we've been trying tofind a project together since he
left. But yeah, it's
got to be so hard to be with thebusiness for 14 years and then
yeah, like, Hey, listen, eitherto go elsewhere or start your

(01:35:15):
own thing, especially you have agood relationship with them.
That's like breaking up with asignificant other that you've,
you know, known for 1415, years.That's a substantial amount of
time, but really cool to seewhere he's going. I like, I like
his model a lot. I think thatyou know that does not come

(01:35:35):
without experience and a lot ofmaturation with yourself. So
super cool.
Make sure you head over tomonocrossman.co sign up for our
newsletter. We send out a weeklyemail a little bit behind the
scenes, what we got working on,what we're working on, and
sharing a little bit more indepth about what's going on in
my business. But the only wayyou can get that content is by

(01:35:57):
signing up for the newsletter.And if you guys want to join us
live in Omaha, Nebraska, June 19through the 23rd you got to
register contractor coalitionsummit.com. Myself, Tyler, Brad
Levitt, Morgan, Molitor, as wellas Mark Williams, who recently
joined the contractor coalitionSummit. We're going to be there,

(01:36:17):
and there's a bunch of stuffgoing on, but head over the
website. Check it out. If youhave questions, reach out to any
of us happy to answer, and ifwe're chatting through DM, I can
get you a discount code to seeyou in Omaha until next week,
guys, we'll see you then.

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Construction Business | Design a Scalable Firm That Grows with You | Architect Matt Arnold

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Construction Business | Design a Scalable Firm That Grows with You | Architect Matt Arnold