EP 175: The Audacious Art of Branding for Profit

In the podcast episode of "Money & You," host Michelle Perkins engages in a discussion with branding strategist Asia about the critical relationship between branding and financial success. The conversation emphasizes how mindset and habits surrounding money can significantly impact one's career and business decisions. Asia shares her journey to becoming a self-taught brand strategist, highlighting the importance of understanding one's ideal client and effectively communicating value to them. The episode underscores that a clear brand strategy can serve as a filter for decision-making, helping entrepreneurs avoid misaligned opportunities that may waste resources. This discussion took place recently and is important as it provides insights for entrepreneurs and job seekers on how to build a strong personal brand, which is essential for achieving financial and professional goals. The episode aims to empower listeners to improve their relationship with money through better branding and communication strategies.

Chapter

00:06 - Introduction to money mindset
05:37 - Navigating money and branding
15:38 - Identifying your ideal client
22:57 - The power of communication
37:42 - Aligning brand strategy decisions
46:30 - Masterclass invitation and conclusion

Learnings

What is the primary focus of the Money & You podcast?
The primary focus of the Money & You podcast is to explore the relationship between mindset, habits, and money, emphasizing how these factors influence financial success and personal fulfillment.

How does the podcast host, Michelle Perkins, view the role of branding in financial success?
Michelle Perkins views branding as a foundational element for understanding oneself and building wealth, suggesting that effective branding can help individuals communicate their value and attract their ideal clients.

What common challenge do clients face according to the guest on the podcast?
The guest notes that a common challenge clients face is managing their relationship with money, which often leads to financial obstacles and can hinder their ability to pivot in their careers or businesses.

What does the guest suggest is crucial for entrepreneurs when defining their brand?
The guest suggests that understanding the psychology of their ideal client is crucial for entrepreneurs, as it helps them communicate their services effectively and align their branding with their target audience's needs.

What is the significance of communication in branding as discussed in the podcast?
Communication is highlighted as a critical skill in branding, as it shapes the client experience and helps establish relationships. The guest emphasizes that effective communication can enhance brand perception and client engagement.

Show Notes

# Money & You with Michelle Perkins  
## Episode Name: EP 175: The Audacious Art of Branding for Profit  

### Podcast Introduction  
Welcome to **Money & You**, the podcast where we explore the intricate relationship between money, mindset, and personal fulfillment. Hosted by **Michelle Perkins**, a career and business coach, this show delves into the financial obstacles we face and how our mindset and habits can transform our relationship with money. Each week, Michelle engages with inspiring guests to discuss various aspects of money, entrepreneurship, and personal growth.

### Episode Overview  
In this episode, Michelle is joined by **Asia**, a brand strategist who shares her insights on the importance of branding in building a successful business. They discuss how understanding oneself and one’s ideal clients can lead to a more profitable and fulfilling career.

### Main Topics Discussed  
- **The Connection Between Branding and Wealth**  
  - Branding is a foundational element for understanding oneself and improving financial relationships.
  - A strong brand can position you as an expert in your field, leading to greater opportunities.

- **Navigating Imposter Syndrome**  
  - Asia shares her journey of overcoming self-doubt and recognizing her expertise as a self-taught brand strategist.
  - The importance of embracing curiosity and passion in one’s career journey.

- **Identifying Your Ideal Client**  
  - Understanding the psychology of your ideal client is crucial for effective communication.
  - The challenge of multi-passionate individuals in defining their brand and services.

- **The Role of Communication in Branding**  
  - Effective communication is essential for building relationships and conveying value.
  - Asia emphasizes the need for an outside perspective to enhance communication skills.

- **The Importance of Brand Strategy**  
  - A clear brand strategy serves as

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
When I said earlier, it makes your branding, makes your
business more effective. It also makes your business more efficient
because you're not wasting time with stuff that not only
do you not want to be doing, but also that
just doesn't really make sense. If I were to, for example,

(00:26):
get an invitation from like my local Chamber of commerce
for to give a talk on how to start a
brand strategy business, you know, for other like hopeful entrepreneurs
in the community, could I do that. I could totally
do that. It would probably be fun. I would bring
be bringing value, and I could teach.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I could teach a lot. I've been in business for
you know, over a decade, so I know a few thinks, right,
So like, I.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Could do it, and it could be it could be
a decision that maybe paid off for me in some way.
But does it really like for my goals right now
and for my long term mission, does it really make
sense to do that? Or does it make sense to
either decline that invitation or kind of make a counter

(01:13):
offer and say, hey, instead of doing this, I would
actually love to give a talk on this for this
type of person.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Would that interest you?

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Hey, there, and welcome to money and you I'm Michelle Perkins,
your host. My search for more fulfilling work led me
to career in business coaching, where I stumbled upon a
game changing discovery. Money issues often start with our mindset
and habits. You see, our relationship with money is the
key to overcoming those frustrating financial obstacles. As an entrepreneur, coach,

(01:43):
and problem solver, I'm passionate about helping you create a
great relationship with money, because turns out that's the foundation
for a limit free life. Each week on Money in You,
I speak with amazing guests about all things money, mindset,
practical tips, and everything in between. We're here to give
you new insights, education, and empowerment, so money can be

(02:05):
one of your favorite relationships. So join us for some
lively conversations and let's transform your financial life together.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Hello.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
Hello, welcome to the Money and You Show. I'm Michelle
Perkins and I'll be your host today and I have
a fantastic guest with me. I'm super excited to introduce
you to Asia Door and I'm going to tell you
a little about her.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
Today's show is really.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
Going to be interesting because it's so necessary today. The
way the world is working, there's a level of branding
yourself and needing to be seen and speaking out and
allowing people to know who you are and hear your
voice and understand what you're about, your expertise, your mission.

(02:55):
That is true for everybody today, which is kind of
unique and interest So whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're
a job seeker, everybody is better off if they understand
who they are and what they're about. And I have
an expert today who's going to really help you understand
this and see what you can do. So Asia Door

(03:18):
is a brand strategist on a mission to simplify and
revolutionize the concept of branding so every entrepreneur can take
full advantage of it and grow their business. Using her
signature strategy Audacity method, she has helped hundreds of business
owners build effective and profitable brands that empower them to
leverage their unique expertise. So Asia, welcome, Thank.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
You, Michelle. I'm really excited to be here. I'm looking
forward to this conversation with you.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
I am too, and I think it's so interesting because
when when we first talked, I thought, Okay, branding, hmm,
is that like an appropriate topic for the show, And
then I immediately realized, of course it is. It's such
a wealth builder in itself, and it's so foundational to

(04:08):
understanding ourselves, which this show is very much about your
relationship with money, and understanding yourself is really the key
to understanding and improving that relationship. So I want to
dive into all kinds of things related to this, But
why don't you tell us how you found your way
to this career?

Speaker 2 (04:29):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
So I started my business back in twenty fourteen, which
is over a decade ago, which is wild. I started
as a photographer and that was kind of an accident.
I sort of just fell into it and I really
enjoyed doing it. And then people started asking how much
do you charge to take photos?

Speaker 2 (04:45):
And I was like, oh, think of that before.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
So I ended up starting a business and I made
my way through all types of photography, just really experimenting
with different subjects and different industries. A was in the
wedding industry for a while, and then I made my
way to branding photography, not just headshots but more in

(05:09):
depth sort of planned planned photo shoots to help people,
you know, bring their brand life in a visual way.
And what I realized is that even though my clients
were totally brilliant at what they did. They couldn't actually
tell me what their brand was when I asked, so
it made it a little difficult as a photographer because

(05:31):
if I don't understand your brand, how am I supposed
to photograph for it?

Speaker 2 (05:36):
Right?

Speaker 1 (05:37):
So the strategy piece became a really crucial part of
my work as a brand photographer, And in twenty twenty,
I started to realize that the strategy part was actually
the most exciting for me, and so I sort of
phased out the photography and started focusing strictly on the
strategy and that's that's what got me to where I

(06:00):
am now, where I just do the brand strategy.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Okay, thank you so much for that. I always love
to hear people's journeys because it speaks so much to
how to build a career, which is how I started
my business was career transition coaching. And I just think
it's so interesting that if you start with an interest,
like you had an interest in photography, and then allow

(06:23):
yourself to see where it takes you and allow yourself to,
you know, over time, instead of being sort of locked
in to I'm a photographer, to be open and see
what aspects of it are most interesting or where it
can lead you. And I feel like a lot of
times people like to identify with something and just hold
on to that, and they sort of refuse to see

(06:45):
some of the signs along the way.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Did you have that?

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, And it's not just to add to that. It's
not just the picking something and not letting yourself evolve,
but it's also it's also I think we often devalue
our experiences, especially as experts, but that that's kind of
a different outfit or maybe a tangent, but we tend

(07:12):
to devalue our experiences when our experiences are what make
us experts. Like if I had just started out I
want to be a brand strategist, I really don't think
I would be as good at what I do if
I had done that, if I didn't have those five
or six years of photography and offering a different kind
of service and having a different kind of business, because

(07:35):
I didn't just learn about photography in that time. I
also learned about branding, but from like a parallel, sort
of auxiliary industry. I wasn't learning about branding to learn
about branding. I was learning about branding through the lens
of my own experiences and also of my client's real
life experiences instead of just someone teaching me Asia, this

(07:57):
is what branding is, and this is how you should
be a brand strategist.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
I got to learn that for myself.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
So to your point about just you know, letting the
journey take you where it's going to take you and
following the curiosity and the passions, there's so much value
for that, not just for me and not just for you,
but for anyone who who wants to be really, really
good at what they do.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Thank you for that.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
That was a great answer, And I had kind of
the same experience where I started out. I mean, I've
changed careers a few times, but I started this business,
my Limit Free Life Company, doing career in business coaching,
and as I'm doing it, just like you said, I'm
learning from my clients that one of the main stumbling

(08:42):
blocks is our money problems. And you know, whether you
can change your career or build your business comes down
to your relationship with money and how you manage money,
and so it kind of flipped. I still do those things,
but I focus more on the money piece of it
first because that's so foundational. I just I don't know,
I just find it interesting because I was resistant to

(09:04):
going there, especially having been a finance person. I thought
I was getting away from that actually, and so it
was I had some resistance to going back into it.
So anyway, I just I just find the whole career
journey so interesting.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
And I love.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
People like you who moved through and just keep getting
closer and closer to you know, what you really love doing.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
And I think when.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
You, I don't think go ahead.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Sorry, no, no go.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
I don't think either of us are done yet.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
No no.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
I was like, there's so much value.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Yeah, there's so much value in the pivot and just
being like, okay, well this is just where I'm going.
You know, it's hard to it's hard to pivot or
evolve because it feels a little bit like you're abandoning
what you've already built, or like, oh but I have
I had all these student loans that I finally paid off.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
I can't just switch. But it's like you're not abandoning
that part of you.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
You're not abandoning everything you've learned, Like all of that
gets to come with you. There's so much value in
the pivot. So yeah, I I doubt either of us
are even done.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
With that journey.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Thank you for that. I don't think we are either.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
But you know, that kind of leans into the idea
of your relationship with money. So when you you brought up,
you know, something really significant when you just pay off
your student loans and then you're like, you know, I
can't change now because I've invested.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
And so how was.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Your you know, did you have some fear around moving
into the branding aspect of what you wanted to do
was how is your relationship with money? Uh?

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, No, it was absolutely.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I mean I said that I started, you know, pivoting
in twenty twenty, but I don't think I fully did
until twenty twenty one. It took me an entire year
to really just allow myself to let go of the
photography piece, because it's like, well, this is this is
how I built my entire business. I can't just like stop,
that's crazy, right.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
But you know.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
As I as I sort of let myself explore it
more and and got through I do you want to
say got through? Yeah, I kind of moved through the
imposter syndrome part of it. Like I didn't go to
school to learn how to be a brand strategist. I'm
completely self taught, right, No one taught me how to
do it.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
It was.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
I got scrappy through years of experience and research and
making my own deductions and my own connections really to see, oh,
this is how all of this can work.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
This is how we are doing it.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Why are we doing it like this when we could
do it like this and that's so much better. And
once I started allowing myself to go down those paths,
I just built more self trust and more self confidence.
And the more conversations I had and the more clients
I worked with, it's like, oh, maybe I do actually
know what I'm talking about, Like.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Maybe I do. I do know how to do this.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
I mean from the money angle, you know, that's a
difficult part of pivoting too, because what I built was
reliable and it was technically working, so it's like, why
would you want to change that? So in terms of
the money part, in my personal experience, that is a
really difficult part of the pivot. But I also think

(12:10):
that there's smart ways to pivot.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
You know.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
I didn't immediately say Okay, no more photography. I built
this other thing sort of on the side and allowed
myself to still continue offering a service that I know
made me money. And I think that that helped me
in terms of the confidence going into it and the
confidence on the money side of it.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah, I agree, and I think you know, people have
to find their comfort zone with that. You know, there's
a lot of people who say, oh, you've got to
burn the life rafts and you know, just move forward.
And then there are other people who do things simultaneously
or they keep their day job and build on the side.
And I really believe that that's a very individual choice
and it's somewhat of a financial choice. Depending on your situation.

(12:57):
You know, it might be way smarter too, maybe continue
to do something else while you're building your business. So
I think it's really interesting to hear how people go
about it. So, so okay, let's talk about branding, because
I do feel that branding yourself is a big step

(13:21):
toward making more money and more financial freedom. So I'm
sure you know this because this is what you do.
So can you tell us why branding is important from
your expert perspective?

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yes, I mean, how much time we have let me
help for the purposes of this conversation, it is true
that building a strong brand can help your business be
more profitable, or if you don't have a business, if
you have a career, it's true that it can help
you maybe get a better position or negotiate a higher

(13:56):
pay or whatever it is if you have a career,
like that is all true, and I think that's sort
of the mainstream message that we hear when it comes
to branding or personal branding more specifically, it sounds like
we're sort of talking about here personal branding. So yes,
it's true building a brand can make you more money.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
But the perspective that I'm a lot.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
More interested in as a brand strategist is that building
a brand that positions you as an expert in the
one thing you want to do allows you to actually
do that thing right. So when I work with clients,
it's less about how can we build a brand that
makes you more money? It's more about how do we

(14:41):
build a brand that allows you to offer your really
really specific service and skill set in a really really
specific way for a really specific.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Type of client.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
And the way that you do that is by building
a brand. Because if you want to attract those people,
if you want them to understand what you do and
how you can help them.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
That's what that's where your brand comes in.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
You have to be able to communicate all of that
with them. So yeah, so it's really less about let's
make you more money. It's more about let's make you
money or more money in the exact way that you
want to make it. And as an experts, it's really
important that you do that if you're an expert, because
it's what's going to allow you to actually use your

(15:25):
expertise within your business.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
When you are an expert, you have so many.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Skill sets, you know so much, you have so much
education and experiences and knowledge, and you can help people
in a lot of different ways. But what I find
happening is that if you don't know how to communicate
exactly what you want to do, you end up taking
on all this work that you don't actually want to
be doing. Like, yes you can do it, yes you're
really really damn good at it, but you don't actually

(15:49):
want to be doing it. So that level of fulfillment
isn't there for you, And sometimes that level of service
isn't there for your client. You know, no one wants
to work with someone who's dreading working with you, right,
you don't want to go to a hairstylist. They're like, oh,
I hate cutting hair, but here I am. I'm good
at it.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
So it allows for both.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
It allows you to do what you really want to do,
and it allows your clients to get a better service
because you really love what you're doing.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yes, I completely agree, And I think that making money
piece is sort of a natural outgrowth of that. It's
not so much like I need to brand myself so
I can make money, but it's I need to brand
myself so I can do the work that I love
to do with the people that I love to do
it with. And that's the tricky part. I mean that
being being seen as an expert in something that you're

(16:40):
actually an expert in is the piece I think that's
missing for a lot of people.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
And if I.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Think so too.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
And it's like easier said than done, right, Like branding
is not easy. It's really simple, but it's not easy,
and especially so for experts. It seems so contradictory. But
the experts are the ones that have the hardest time
building their brands because they have all of this knowledge
and experience, because they have this education, because they've created

(17:08):
all of these frameworks and methods and offers. It's like, yes,
they can help people in so many ways. Right, Like
when I ask these clients, well, what's the one thing
that you do, they're like, well, one thing. When I
want to limit myself to one thing, I'm multi passionate,
I have all of these skills. So they have the
hardest time trying to narrow it down. And what I
always say to those people is that it's not about

(17:31):
boxing you into one thing. Instead, what we try to
do in brand strategy is to take all of the things,
all of the things you're good at, all of your experiences,
and funnel them down so that they mean one thing
to your ideal client, which is totally a different thing. Right,

(17:53):
We're not making you pick one thing. We just need
to make it all mean one thing. What are you
doing for this people? And again, it's not an easy
thing to do. It is simple and it is so
necessary to do that, as much as it feels painful
at first, because if you can't communicate what you actually

(18:13):
do and why it matters to people, they're just they're
not going to care. Right, it's not personal against you,
it's just people are busy, right, We're getting phone notifications
and we have to pick up a cake, and like
we're getting bills, like whatever it is. We need to
make it really clear immediately how we can help people,
so that they know immediately whether we are relevant to
them or not.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Yeah, I totally agree, and I've actually it's funny, I've
just started doing more in person networking. I sort of
used to do a ton of it, then COVID hit,
then I started, I sort of stopped, and just recently
I've thought and I've run into a few people who
have invited me to things, and so anyway, it's been
really nice to get in a room with people again.

(18:53):
But what has been fascinating because I've struggled with this too.
I mean, so many things that I do. I want
you to know all of them, just in case you know,
you need this one not that one, And it is
very confusing, and so I've become aware of when I'm confusing.
But I also was really interested listening to people explain
what they do. I mean, sometimes they tell you what

(19:16):
they do and you honestly don't know if you could
use that service or not.

Speaker 4 (19:19):
You know, you don't even have a concept really so.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Right, And it's it's obvious that they're brilliant. It's obvious
that they know what they're talking about.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
It's just that you don't know what they're actually saying.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
So yeah, I've experienced that too. Yeah, and I'm guilty
of it myself.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Same, And I kind of know when I finished talking
to somebody and I'm like, I just confuse the heck
out of them.

Speaker 4 (19:43):
But whatever, can't go back now. But there's something that
I was just thinking that I lost it. But it's
a fascinating thing. We oh, I know it.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
Sometimes we get very very techn and we get lost
in the technical aspects of what we do, and that
message is usually kind of dead on arrival if we
get too technical.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
So how I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Do you have a few tips you could share with
us for how to create the you know, the messaging
so it is clear? Is it about speaking just to
one person or talking about one thing?

Speaker 4 (20:23):
I mean, what makes it work?

Speaker 1 (20:26):
I think the most important thing and the most helpful
thing you can do in that situation is really know
who your ideal client is, like the guy that you
meet at the bar, like the old guy who's like
four beers deep, and he's like, so, what do you
do for a living? Like he doesn't really, he doesn't
really care, and he doesn't really need to know, right,
So if we want to like get technical to him,
it doesn't really matter. As long as we can communicate

(20:49):
to our ideal clients what we do and how we
can help them, that's really all that matters. So part
of that, the first part of that is really understanding
the psychology of your ideal client. And I know there's
someone watching or listening who's like, lease, do not make
me do another ideal client avatar worksheet.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Like any of them. I dread it so much, but
I know how important it is.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, and and like some of them are really helpful,
and some of them are like knowing where your ideal
client shops or their you know, annual household income, like
those things can be helpful. But demographics are really only
helpful because they inform psychographics.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
We really have to get into their head, their psychology,
what they're struggling with, and who they are, but even
more importantly than that, who they want to be. So
if we can tap into that, then we can know, Okay, well,
if this is where my ideal client is at how
can I explain what I do in a way that
they will actually understand? So you're really just putting yourself

(21:50):
in their shoes, and that takes some trial and error.
It's not just you're going to do one client worksheet
that could be done right.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
And it's something that evolves as well.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
So that's the first thing is get really clear on
your ideal client and then secondly.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Go test it out.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
You know you said you went to in person events,
like that's a really good way to do it, Facebook,
networking groups, just online, asking for feedback from people, Hey
does this make sense when I say it like this,
and just allowing it to be its own process and
trusting that process, which I hate trusting the process. I
like to write my final draft like first try, but

(22:30):
it really is helpful to get that feedback and see like, okay,
when I explain it this way, are people's eyes glazing
over or is something peaked?

Speaker 4 (22:37):
Like?

Speaker 1 (22:37):
Do they have an interest peaked? So I think those
are my two biggest tips in terms of trying to
avoid the technical jargon and put it into terms that
your ideal client will understand, because like I said, it's
going to depend on your audience too. The guy for
beers deep at the bar doesn't really matter. But if
you're meeting someone at a networking event who literally they

(23:00):
have the problem you can solve, you're going to want
to hone more in on that. So being willing to
kind of test and change and experiment with how you're
explaining what you do in different circumstances to different people.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, And if people don't understand what you do and
they I mean, you're just not going to.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
You're not going to sell.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Services or products or whatever it is you're trying to
or yourself in a job interview. I mean, it just
isn't you know, it's not going to land. And so
that is obviously problematic from a financial standpoint as well.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
So yeah, I find this really interesting.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
I also think it you know, when you talk about
what you do, that part's important. But I worked with
a branding strategist years and years ago, and she would
talk about your brand being the experience you want your
client to have, which I always kind of I could
connect with that a little better. What would your comments

(24:02):
be around that?

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, she was definitely onto something there. Your brand is
really just your reputation and your reputation is really just
how people feel about you, and you can totally rephrase
that into it's someone's experience with you.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
So it's yeah, I would yeah, I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, in different terms maybe, but it's the same concept. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
And I kind of liked it because then I could
visualize myself working with clients, you know, and the sort
of think, Okay, well, what experiences were really good and
try to somehow communicate that experience to people. But it
is all about communication, so and that is hard stuff
for everybody.

Speaker 4 (24:47):
And what about yeah, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (24:50):
I mean, I just got a new communication book I'm
super excited about.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
I think. God, I hope I don't screw up his
name Jefferson. I feel like I'm getting the last name wrong, Parker.
I think.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Anyway, it's a great new book. He's a trial attorney
who learned a lot about communication from his work as.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
A trial attorney. And I've heard him on so many
interviews and.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
It's just like, Wow, that is the perfect answer to
whatever the subject is. So but communication is just the
key literally to everything. So how do you help people
learn to just communicate better if they're not so great
at it?

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (25:33):
That is such a great question.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
But first of all, what you've said about communication and
is it relates to branding one percent. Absolutely, it is
the most underrated branding tool actually, people very much. I
under appreciate the value of branding when it comes to anything, really,
but especially in branding, especially because branding it leads to relationships,
and communication is critical in relationships. So communication is also

(25:59):
a skill, and I think that's something that we don't
really think about.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
We kind of just assume, like, oh, I'm not good
at that, or.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
You know, we take it as like a personality trait
if you're if oh, people never understand what I mean.
You know, people don't listen to me. Whatever it is.
Communication is a skill. There are a lot of brilliant
people who actually take teach courses and give seminars on
how to be a better communicator. So for someone who

(26:31):
is not or thinks they're not or has a hard
time with that, I mean, there are certain things that
I've learned about communication that I can help them with,
But I think the most value I can bring as
a brand strategist in that situation is to just offer
an outside perspective. I have worked with entrepreneurs in so
many industries, and a lot of times people will try

(26:54):
to get me to get really specific about what kind
of industry entrepreneur I like to work with, and I
refuse to do it because what I you can apply
to so many different industries. I'm sure, Michelle, you have
the same experience. So what I can offer is an
outside perspective. I'm typically not in the industries of the
clients that I'm working with. I'm not in their same industry,

(27:15):
so I can come into it fresh, but also come
into it without knowing technical jargon, without knowing the history,
without knowing the trends. Right, I can come into it
with a fresh perspective and look at it a little
bit more objectively. And I think that just that alone
can help people get out of their industry bubbles. I'm

(27:38):
in an industry bubble too, like I'm very much in
the branding industry bubble, right, So if I work with
someone even to work on my brand, I want someone
who can do the same thing, who can say, Okay,
well you're over here and I'm over here, let me
show you what I'm seeing. Just because someone's a bad
communicator doesn't mean they're dumb, right, They're all very smart.

(28:01):
So it's it's less about it's less about let me
teach you how to be a better communicator, because that's
not necessarily in my forte and more about here's what
I'm seeing so that you know what you need to
go do to be better at communicating. I feel like
I lost I lost my point a little bit there.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
But did that make sense?

Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, it does make sense, and I think it's a
great point. And uh, just a correction. Not Jefferson Barker,
Jefferson Fisher. He wrote a book called The Next Conversation
and it's really excellent. Uh, but I I think I, yeah,
I totally think you're you're on it. And I think

(28:42):
it's great to, like you said, to have an outside perspective.
I personally love the fact that you're you're not typically
in the industry of the person here. I prefer that
I prefer having people who are not in the coaching
world because the jargon's all the same everybody, you know,
it's sort of offering things in the same way.

Speaker 4 (29:01):
And uh, and.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yeah, I think it's very helpful to go outside of
your industry and look for, you know, ideas and perspectives
and feedback from people who aren't in your industry.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
That's also a great content tip. Like, my favorite thing
to do when I'm like, what do I want to
talk about today is go, like listen to a podcast
about something completely different, like.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Science or something.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, because you'll, like as an expert, you'll pick out
little things and see how they're relevant to what you do,
and it allows your content even to be a little
bit more fresh instead of just regurgitating what everyone else
is saying.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
So yeah, well, content idea tip.

Speaker 4 (29:41):
Yeah, I love that. I love that.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
So so the okay, I think, you know, we can
kind of understand the point of having brand strategy. I
do know sometimes it's very hard to you know, you
put a lot of things in motion. You're kind of
waiting to see, you know, what works and what doesn't.
And while there should be a strategy before you do
all that, I find that most people I know just

(30:06):
dive in and start. You know, this is popular right
now or everybody's on you know this platform or that
platform doing this, so I'm going.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
To do it.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
How I know the value of having a strategy. It's
very similar to money. I mean, you can do all
kinds of things, but if you don't have a strategy,
you're really just throwing a lot of spaghetti at the wall,
and you don't even know what your goal is. I mean, the.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
Strategy is set to bring you to a certain goal.
And so but I do know it's hard.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
I do know it's hard to stop trying things and
step back and spend the time on a strategy. So what,
I don't know what's the motivation there that you can
provide to help people see the value?

Speaker 1 (30:53):
I mean there is to be clear, like, there is
a lot of value of trying things out. We already
don't about that earlier. So like I mean, I don't
work with the entrepreneurs unless they've been in business for
you know, typically.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Like over a year.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
I would prefer like three years at least, because so
much of your brand is built through trial and error.
A lot of times we think we know what we want,
we think we know where we're going, and then we
try stuff out and we're like, oh, whoa, Nope, not
that I don't know where I'm going, but it's not
that way. And a lot of times they just they
don't have what they need to actually build a brand yet.

(31:29):
So I'll start by saying that and the other thing is,
like my signature method, the strategy audacity method, really came
from the observation that people build their brands in one
of two ways. The first way is that they are
very strategic. They read all the books, they go through

(31:50):
all the blog posts, they work with all the people.
They have it very much in black and white. This
is exactly what my brand is. These are all of
the guidelines we adhere to.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
The is one hundred percent of the time, which isn't
I don't want to say.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
That's a bad thing, because having a brand strategy is good, right,
it does make your business more effective, But if you're
building it too soon, or if you are building it
too rigidly, it's not going to give you the flexibility
to evolve, not just as a business owner, but also
just as a human because you are not a brand, right,

(32:25):
you are a human or a business owner or a
career person with a brand.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
So there's that distinction.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
So if you go strategy alone, it's like, Okay, that's great,
but it's probably going to hold you back in the
long run and it's not very exciting. Yeah, Like I mean,
corporate branding is a great example of this, Like there
are some very successful corporations, and a lot of that
has to do with them pouring probably billions of dollars

(32:54):
into manipulating perceptions until their brand is perceived exactly the
way they want it to be perceived.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
But there's not a lot of corporate brands are just
so unexciting.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
There's nothing to be inspired about, right, we don't have
any sort of connection with it. It just looks pretty
and professional. There's no substance there, there's no soul. So
that's the one way people build their brands. The other
way is the audacious way, where they're like, I don't
want to be held back by anything, don't put me
in a box. I'm going to do whatever I want.
I'm multi passionate. I you know, my mood changes with

(33:29):
the weather. I'm just gonna do whatever I want whenever
I want to do it. And there, you know, that
can be exciting to watch there. There can be a
lot of connection there because it's obvious obviously a human.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
Yeah, but if there's no.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
Strategy, then we're back to Okay, Well, people don't understand
what it is you do now and who you.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Do it for and why it matters.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
So so like I said, the strategy audacity method. I've
really built out of that observation it's one or the other,
and I've realized.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
That it has to be equal parts.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Bul you do need this strategy, and you do need
the audacity, you do need the guidelines, and you do
need the flexibility.

Speaker 4 (34:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
So in terms of Okay, well, I don't like I'm going, going, going,
I don't want to stop and focus on my brand,
Like now, it's not the time.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I'm too busy. You know you're you're always too busy, right, And.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
It's not it's not I'm not going to lie and say, oh,
it's really fast, easy, you just do it.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
It does.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
It does take an investment of time and energy and
sometimes money. But the result of that is a brand
that is both effective and profitable, but also unique and
flexible and allows you to evolve with you. And if
we go back to that conversation we first had, it's

(34:48):
what gives you the freedom to use your very specific
skill set working with a very specific type of client
in a very specific type of way. So I mean
it's it's it's like any that's an investment of time
and energy. Right, you could go to the gym, No,
one wants to go to the gym really, right, But
it's what you're going to get after that that really

(35:08):
makes a difference.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
So if you're in a place where your business.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Is kind of just you're doing whatever, and you get
random clients asking for different things and you're happy.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
With that, I'm not going to convince you otherwise.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Like, if it's working for you, if it's bringing in
money and you're happy, great, keep going. But if you're
at a point where you're like, I'm dreading this project,
or I really don't want to work with this type
of client anymore. This is the thing that I really
want to do right now, you know, like me with photography.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Like okay, photography, like it's okay, but I really want
to focus on the strategy. I want to work with.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
A client who trusts me to help them build out
their strategy. Then you have to build a brand that
allows people to understand that that is what you actually
do for them.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah, that's great.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
I really loved what you said about, you know, kind
of waiting until people have tried a few things and
not coming in to help with strategy until you have
a little more clarity, and so you're a few years
in or whatever. I think that's really great, you know,
and I think it's really honest.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
So the time.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
You know, if people are telling you, oh, you need
a brand strategy before you start your business or the
day you start it, maybe that's not actually the case.
And I think it's interesting what you were saying.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
So yeah, yeah, I mean there is so much power
in the trial and error process and experimentation. And you know,
if someone comes to me brand new and ask can
you help me build my brand? Like, of course I can't, right,
But what I would probably do is send them resources
to kind of research like the basics of branding and
how to start and what sort of things to start

(36:39):
thinking about, and then once they've taken that on their
own and kind of have their own journey with it,
then come back to me and let's talk about what
you learned and what you liked and.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
What you didn't like.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yeah, yeah, And you know, I do think people have
kind of a mistaken idea that branding is about and
this is an aspect of it. But the colors and
the fonts and you know, your logo and all of that,
and while that's important, that's not going to work for
you on its own selling your services for you. So

(37:10):
some are pretty clever, that's for sure, but branding goes
way beyond that.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yeah, visual branding is really important, especially like now where
the Internet is just full of NonStop content all the time, visual, visual,
even video now right, and sounds even so those things
are really important. But if you don't have the brand strategy,
your logo, what is your logo representing? Yeah, it's just
going to be a pretty picture. So you have to

(37:37):
have the strategy piece before you move into the other
visual stuff.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
So tell me if you would some actionable steps people
can take. I know we've covered a few, but are
there some that we haven't covered that people can take
to sort of stand out?

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Because that's really the key here.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
I mean, whatever it is that you do, you probably
got thousands of other people or potentially more than that
doing what you do. So how the point of branding
is to help you stand out as well. So what
can people do that's sort of simple and actionable?

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Initially, so I mentioned branding was not easy, but it
is simple.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
There's really only five steps.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
The first step is you need to figure out exactly
what it is you're doing, literally just what you do
and if it's again, if it's all the things, then okay,
how do we narrow that down so that it means
one thing? So figure out what you do. The second
thing is to figure out who you do it for.
That's your ideal client. That's when I was talking about
the psychology and really just getting into their head of

(38:39):
what they're struggling with and what they want and who
do they want their identity to be is probably the
biggest one. Who are they going to be after their
problem is solved by you? The third thing, and I
think the most direct answer to your question of how
do you stand out is you have to figure out
how you do what you do differently than every single
other person who's offering same thing as you. What you

(39:01):
do does not make you special. There are thousands of
brand strategies, maybe even millions, I don't know, right there
are thousands of money coaches. So it's not about the
thing that we're actually doing and what we're doing, it's
about how we're doing it differently.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
And a lot of times.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
People will be like, oh, okay, well, how do you
know what makes me unique? Okay, well, I'm like I
have really great customer service. It's like Okay, that's great,
but so do the thousands of people who offer the same.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Thing as you.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
So when I say how, what I'm really referring to
is your signature method, the framework that you take people
through to get them from point A to point B.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
The fourth thing that's.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Also really underrated that you need to figure out is
why any of it matters, Like who cares?

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Really?

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Who gives the damn that I'm a brand strategist? Why
should people care? And the reason it's important to know
that is because, number one, it helps people connect with
you because you'll probably share similar values.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
And it also.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
From the perspective of not only are we expert business
owners who want to make a lot of money, but
we also are genuinely trying to make an impact and
genuinely trying to help people. In the case of me
and my clients, we are literally trying to change our
industries or revolutionize something or disrupt something right. We see
that something is wrong and we want to make it right.

(40:27):
We see something broken and we want to make it better.
And if that's the case for you, you need to have
an actual mission for your business, like a specific achievable mission,
and your why is Okay, here's how what I do
helps us get closer to this end goal.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
So that's step number four. The last step is to.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Go talk about those things over and over and over
and over and over again until you're absolutely sick of
your message, and then go share it some more.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Yeah. I love that.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Those are great, great tips, and it is hard to
because you're right, you need to say it over and
over and at some point, I feel like you can
have said it so many times that you lose your
own enthusiastic energy around what you're saying because you've said
it so many times, and sometimes you have to remind
yourself to like power it up with some energy.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
So, oh, yeah, that is It's so common because it's
like we're doing it all day every day, right, We're
talking about it, but we're also thinking about it all
the time. I probably this is probably like a weekly
or monthly thing where I wake up and I'm like,
what am I Asia?

Speaker 2 (41:37):
What are you doing? What are we doing here? I
don't know does anyone care?

Speaker 1 (41:43):
But the thing that I do when that happens, and
I'm not even joking, is I go back and I
look at my brand strategy guideline because it says right
there in black and white, Hey, this is what you're
really good at, and this is what you're trying to achieve,
and this is why it matters.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Okay, remember all right, great, now go get to work. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (42:00):
I know I have my vision and my why, you know,
and I have to go back and look at it too,
because then you remember, oh, this is why I'm doing this,
this is who it's going to help, and this.

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Is why it's great. So by we do.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Have to, you know, do that little process. So there was, Oh,
I know what I wanted to say. I keep losing
my train of thought because I love talking to you.
So but you know, the other great thing that I
think about, and actually sort of a cost savings that

(42:33):
can come as a result of this is when you
are really clear on your brand and what you're doing
in your brand strategy. I feel like it's a it's
a filter for decision making, so you don't do things,
or invest in things, or start things that are not
aligned with this you know brand that you've developed in

(42:53):
this the strategy that you have, which I think a
lot of entrepreneurs in particular, do you know, I'm not
to say it's a waste of money. But but it's
they try things that maybe don't work, and in part
they were never meant to work because they're not even aligned.

Speaker 4 (43:08):
So I don't know any any thoughts on that.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah, I'm really really glad you brought that up when
I said earlier. It makes your your branding, makes your
business more effective. It also makes your business more efficient
because you're not wasting time with stuff that not only
do you not want to be doing, but also that

(43:33):
just doesn't really make sense. If if I were to,
for example, get an invitation from like my local Chamber
of Commerce for to give a talk on how to
start a brand strategy business, you know, for other like
hopeful entrepreneurs.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
In the community. Right, could I do that?

Speaker 1 (43:54):
I could totally do that. It would probably be fun,
I would bring be bringing value.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
And I could teach. I could teach a lot.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
I've been in business for you know, over a decade,
so I know a few things. Right, So, like, I
could do it, and it could be it could be
a decision that maybe paid off for me in some way.
But does it really like for my goals right now
and for my for my long term mission, does it
really make sense to do that, or does it make

(44:24):
sense to either decline that invitation or kind of make
a counter offer and say, hey, instead of doing this,
I would actually love to give a talk on this
for this type of person. Would that interest you? So
when it comes to, like you said, decisions or invitations
or opportunities or even just following curiosity, it helps so

(44:45):
much to know where you're going. Otherwise you're just going
to keep taking steps that technically are productive and might
feel productive, but aren't actually leading you to where you
really want to and feel called to and need to go. So, yeah,
I'm really glad that you brought that up.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
Yeah, I love this and I've experienced this where especially
for entrepreneurs. I think entrepreneurs are typically kind of optimistic,
hopeful people anyway, and full of ideas, and so almost
every opportunity that comes your way you can almost spin,
you know, justify a decision to do it. But if

(45:23):
you do have a very clear brand, strategy and idea
of you know who you are and where you're going,
it will make it easier to say no to things.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
I mean, this podcast, me being here on your podcast
today is a perfect example of that, because I got
the invitation, and I'm thinking, Okay, well, I don't really
like I don't help people with money. I'm not like
a money coach. I don't really do anything with money technically. However,
here's how I can talk about money in a way
that will be of value to your audience. And even

(45:54):
though we're in different industries, it works because I was
able to frame what I do in the through the
lens of your podcast. So even things like that, not
only accepting opportunities, but making the opportunities work better for
you in terms of you actually achieving your mission.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect, And definitely an investment with you know,
for an entrepreneur in what you do is an investment
that has a return that is not like, you know,
an expense, if you want to categorize things those ways.

Speaker 4 (46:30):
Asia, I hate to end this.

Speaker 3 (46:32):
You're you know, you're really interesting to talk to and
I love everything you're saying. I think it's very very helpful.
And you know, entrepreneurs also are struggling to be more
profitable many much of the time, and so this is
also a track.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
To to that.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
So can you tell people how they can find you,
how they can work with you?

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yeah, absolutely, to keep it simple.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
I would just love to invite your audience to a
masterclass that I have that teaches you the five core
elements you need to brand yourself as an expert. If
you're listening to this thinking like, okay, well yeah, actually,
like I am really good at what I do, Like
first of all, high five.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Love that you know that about yourself.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
But if that's kind of where it stops, and you're like,
but what do I do with that? And how do
I start moving my business in the direction where I
actually want to go, then this master class is going
to really help you in terms of knowing like exactly
what you need in order to make that happen and
make that possible. And the link to that is just
Asia door dot com slash masterclass.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
Thank you. That's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
Yeah, that's a great way for people to start. And
then there'll be information I'm assuming there or on your
website if people want to reach.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
Out to you.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Absolutely, I feel like the master class is a great
first step just to get a feel for exactly what
I do and who I am, and from there, I
think it'll probably be a little bit more clear. Is
Asia someone that I should be thinking about working with
or not.

Speaker 4 (48:03):
Okay, well, Asia, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
This was a great conversation. And you know, I think
people can tell from the podcast how.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
How comfortable you are with.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
What you do, and that to me always speaks to
expertise and a lot of knowledge, and also how relatable
you are.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
You know, Yeah, I'm super sweaty right now. That's how
I notice was an amazing conversation because I get really
excited talking about branding. So that's how we know it's
Asia Sweaty at the end of a podcast interview.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
It was a good one.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
Okay, well, and that was audacious. I love it.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Yeah, there's your proof that you know how to be audacious.
So okay, well, Asia, thank you so much. I will
look forward to watching the masterclass. I'll put it in
the show notes that people can can also watch it
and know about you. And yeah, this was great. Thank
you so much. I think this is a huge key
to success for a lot of people, and you know,

(48:59):
I love that you're making that happen for people. So
thank you. Thank you for being here and thank you
for what you do.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Thank you for having me. This was so fun and
it was a great conversation. You're an amazing host, so
I really appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Thank you so much. An audience, thank you.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
We love having you listen to the Money and You show,
So please share this episode. If you know any friends, entrepreneurs,
job seekers who really would do better if they would
learn a little more about how to brand themselves and
go through that process, you can share the masterclass and yeah, well,
if you have any comments, you can reach out to me,

(49:35):
Michelle or team at limitfreelife dot com. We would love
to know what you would like to hear more of
on the show and any comments you have and with that,
we'll see you next week.