August 25, 2025 • 43 mins
In this podcast episode of "Money & You," host Michelle Perkins engages in a powerful discussion with guest Joey Mure from “Wealth Without Wall Street”, focusing on the relationship between mindset and financial freedom. The conversation highlights how traditional beliefs about money, such as the notion that working hard equates to greater freedom, can be misleading. The guest shares personal experiences of transitioning from the mortgage industry to earning his salary plus, through passive income strategies. He emphasizes the importance of taking control of one’s finances rather than relying on a job and Wall Street.
The episode underscores the significance of understanding one’s relationship with money and the potential for creating passive income streams. The guest references the book "Become Your Own Banker" by Nelson Nash, which influenced their approach to financial independence. The discussion took place recently, reflecting contemporary challenges in achieving financial freedom. This dialogue is important as it encourages listeners to rethink their financial strategies and consider alternative paths to wealth, ultimately aiming to empower individuals to achieve a more fulfilling and financially secure life.
00:00 - Mindset matters for money
10:36 - Transforming financial perspectives
18:11 - Building passive income streams
36:53 - Unlocking financial potential together
Mindset is portrayed as crucial; the podcast emphasizes that overcoming limiting beliefs about money, such as the idea that hard work directly leads to wealth, is essential for creating a fulfilling financial life. He explains how traditional beliefs about hard work and income can limit financial freedom and the role of creativity and space in achieving financial goals.
Key Takeaways:
-The importance of mentorship and learning from experienced individuals in the field.
-“Thinking Like a Bank” was a starting point and mentorship from the author key.
Check out the WealthWithoutWallStreet podcast and visit wealthwithoutwallstreet.com
For more tools and conversations about money mindset, practical money tips, confidence, and financial empowerment…
Subscribe to the Money & You Podcast:
Apple Podcasts Please rate and review & share the podcast with your friends and family members who want to better understand money, and feel more confident and in control of their financial lives. It's sooo important to us!!
Join the Limit Free Life Community Blog: https://limitfreelife.com/newsletter
Learn more about Michelle Perkins: https://limitfreelife.com
LinkedIn: Michelle on LinkedIn
Instagram: @livealimitfreelife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michelleperkins-limitfreel2446
The episode underscores the significance of understanding one’s relationship with money and the potential for creating passive income streams. The guest references the book "Become Your Own Banker" by Nelson Nash, which influenced their approach to financial independence. The discussion took place recently, reflecting contemporary challenges in achieving financial freedom. This dialogue is important as it encourages listeners to rethink their financial strategies and consider alternative paths to wealth, ultimately aiming to empower individuals to achieve a more fulfilling and financially secure life.
00:00 - Mindset matters for money
10:36 - Transforming financial perspectives
18:11 - Building passive income streams
36:53 - Unlocking financial potential together
Mindset is portrayed as crucial; the podcast emphasizes that overcoming limiting beliefs about money, such as the idea that hard work directly leads to wealth, is essential for creating a fulfilling financial life. He explains how traditional beliefs about hard work and income can limit financial freedom and the role of creativity and space in achieving financial goals.
Key Takeaways:
-The importance of mentorship and learning from experienced individuals in the field.
-“Thinking Like a Bank” was a starting point and mentorship from the author key.
- Strategies for capitalizing your life and creating multiple income streams.
- - The significance of understanding the real return on investments and cash flow. - Challenging the notion of deferring life until retirement.
- - Emphasizing the importance of enjoying financial freedom in the present.
- - The guest's personal experience with investing in life insurance policies and the unexpected outcomes that followed.
- - Encouragement to take the next right step towards financial independence.
Check out the WealthWithoutWallStreet podcast and visit wealthwithoutwallstreet.com
For more tools and conversations about money mindset, practical money tips, confidence, and financial empowerment…
Subscribe to the Money & You Podcast:
Apple Podcasts Please rate and review & share the podcast with your friends and family members who want to better understand money, and feel more confident and in control of their financial lives. It's sooo important to us!!
Join the Limit Free Life Community Blog: https://limitfreelife.com/newsletter
Learn more about Michelle Perkins: https://limitfreelife.com
LinkedIn: Michelle on LinkedIn
Instagram: @livealimitfreelife
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michelleperkins-limitfreel2446
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So if I'm you know, if I'm putting one thousand
dollars a month into my stock portfolio, in your opinion,
would that thousand dollars a month be better off, you know,
buying some life insurance like you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's a great question. So the first I would ask
a question behind that? Okay, I would say, what is
your ultimate objective that you're trying to accomplish? Because here's
what we would say is, in most cases, people putting
money directly into a stock portfolio is a money trap.
(00:36):
And why do I say that? Because we have to
remember what is how are we keeping score? If we're
trying to get financial freedom, we're saying I want more
passive income than I have monthly expenses. And I would say, okay,
I'm putting one thousand bucks a month into stock portfolio,
and let's say the stocks are going really well, they're
(00:58):
going up into the right, Am I creating any passive
income from that? Today?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Hey there, and welcome to Money and You. I'm Michelle Perkins,
your host. My search for more fulfilling work led me
to career in business coaching, where I stumbled upon a
game changing discovery. Money issues often start with our mindset
and habits. You see, our relationship with money is the
key to overcoming those frustrating financial obstacles. As an entrepreneur, coach,
(01:30):
and problem solver, I'm passionate about helping you create a
great relationship with money, because turns out that's the foundation
for a limit free life. Each week on Money in You,
I speak with amazing guests about all things money, mindset,
practical tips, and everything in between. We're here to give
you new insights, education and empowerment, so money can be
(01:52):
one of your favorite relationships.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
So join us for some lively.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Conversations and let's transform.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Your financial life together.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Hello, Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Money
and You Show. I'm Michelle Perkins, your host, and we
are broadcasting along with ubngo dot com. And thank you
U Ben for your help. And I want to get
started pretty quickly here because we have another great guest
on today. I just love the variety of topics that
(02:26):
our guests are bringing to light for people and super
excited to speak today with Joey Murray. He's co founder
and partner at Wealth Without Wall Street, an online community
that seeks to re educate business owners and families on
how money truly works. Wall Street is not just a
(02:47):
street in New York, New York that puts Americans money
at risk, but it's also a commonly taught mindset.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Wealth without Wall.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Street exists to help people who want to become financially
free without ever having to invest through Wall Street or
become debt free. Joey, thank you so much. I'm so
happy to have you here today. This is going to
be a great discussion. And you know, after reading your bio,
you're so aligned I think with this show. And you know,
(03:17):
there are a lot of people talking about financial freedom
out there, but sometimes it's just a phrase, it's a catchphrase.
And with others, like the kind folks who come on
my show, it's it's there's actually a pathway and a
lot of thought behind what that really means and experience
as well in helping people actually do that. So can
(03:37):
you tell us a little more about your background and
how you got to be doing this?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Absolutely, Michelle, it's always good to be with like minded
people and so this has not work for me. It's
a privilege. You know, I was stuck in the corporate
grind for eleven years in the mortgage business, and I
didn't even realize that I was in the middle of
the rat race for a long time. And what I
(04:02):
mean by that is I was in this position where
I was making lots of money. I was making more
and more income, but it really didn't give me any
sort of fulfillment or freedom that I had originally thought
higher income equals more freedom. In fact, it was quite
the opposite. You know, I think you know before the show,
(04:25):
I told you that my daughter was the one that
painted these pictures in my background. But I have five daughters.
I don't think I shared that part with you. And
you know, I remember as I was getting older, we
were having more kids, I was getting less and less
and less time with them, and I was telling them,
(04:45):
I'm working for you. But it really, you know, kind
of shook me. When they were younger, we go to
the beach, and this is a very common story for
high level entrepreneurs, but for me, it was a wake
up call. We're at the beach, and I told my
wife and kids. I was like, you guys, go on
(05:06):
down to the beach. I'll be right behind you. I
just have to take one more call. And you know,
I know everybody's nod their head like yep, been there.
And what happened? Four hours later, I'm walking down that
board walk behind the beach house and there it goes
to my wife and those beautiful girls walking back the
(05:27):
other way. But their faces were just full of regret, disappointment, discouragement.
There's Dad, He's physically in our presence, but he is
nowhere to be found, like mentally, emotionally, he's miles away.
And what it was is I didn't know it at
the time, Schelle, but I was the only asset at
(05:50):
work in my family. Yeah, there was no money at work.
Money was not coming, money was not working as hard
as I was, and so therefore I had no freedom.
I had to keep my foot on the gas pedal,
because as soon as I let up, what happened That
next deal didn't come in the door, that next deal
(06:10):
and didn't close that next I was chasing. That's exactly
what the rat race is, and something had to change.
I didn't know the answer at the time, but over
the course of the next several years, I learned some
things changed the trajectory, and that has led to what
is now Wealth Without Wall Street, where we're helping people
to get to financial freedom as fast as possible.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, oof, A lot there.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Financial freedom is a really interesting term, and it's googled
a lot. Is out there, a lot, But it's so actually,
it's so individual. So what constitutes financial freedom for one
person is a very different thing from somebody else. I mean,
a person with five daughters being financially free is a
different thing than a single thirty year old, you know,
(06:58):
somewhere in a big city.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I mean, it's just you.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Have to spend that time, I feel, really trying to
define it for yourself, and I think most people don't.
They're just you know, they get on that treadmill and
they get into the rat rais and once you're in it,
you know, there's not that much time to sit and
contemplate your life. I mean I do vividly remember that
from my corporate days. As an entrepreneur, I resist it little,
(07:23):
but I'm always told have a few hours a week
that are just your visioning time. You go outside and
sit under tree with your notepad and write your ideas.
I mean, unless you have that space, you can't get creative,
you can't figure out what financial freedom really is, not
what you know, this kind of illusion that's out there.
(07:44):
And you bring up a great point, because I love
talking about mindset and this idea that hard work, you know,
equals more money is a huge one that we grew
up with. You know, go to school, work hard, and
everything's going to be fine. But it you know, it's
not actually a good mindset. I mean to put it
(08:05):
as simply as possible, because you can work yourself to
death or to a point where you're not seeing your
family and it doesn't equate to more money. No.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
In fact, I remember this, the fact that you just
said that made me think of this. I was at
Wells Fargar at the time, and I was a branch manager,
but there was one guy above me, and then there
was a guy above him, the regional manager, and I
remember like thinking, oh, man, I could move up in
the company and all this sort of stuff. I actually
(08:36):
had spent time with the regional manager personally, and actually
the more I got to know about him, I didn't
really like him very much. Like I didn't really like
his lifestyle to begin with. And then that wasn't like,
you know, totally putting me off. But literally a couple
of years later, the guy died on a treadmill at
(09:00):
a conference that he was traveling for work, literally heart
attack when he was like in his early fifties. And
I remember thinking, man, the amount of stress that he
must have been under that led to that, I don't
want anything to do with that, Like that's not the future,
Like that's not what I'm signing up for. And I
(09:22):
think what you just said is, I'm going to clarify
one thing you said. People have to define financial freedom
for themselves. They have to actually know their why or
what would they be doing if they were financially free.
And I think that is a very personal thing, but
I'll simplify it for everybody else listening. The formula is
(09:47):
actually universal. It's actually everybody can have the same formula.
And that is, when your passive income exceeds your monthly expenses,
you're financially free. I didn't come up with that. That's
a Robert Kiyosaki. That's probably somebody before Robert Kiyosaki. But
when you have more money coming in that you're not
working for than your monthly expenses, you then get to
(10:11):
pull up I'm just sitting here looking at my phone.
I get to pull up my phone and all those
little colored boxes. You know, we're all used to doing that, right,
we put them in there. But I get to put
those boxes into those spaces like nobody else is actually
placing those on my calendar on their behalf, because I'm
(10:33):
not trading my time for their money, right, I get
to choose. That is what the definition and the formula
gets you. And so our job is not to, you know,
make finances really complex and confusing. It's how can I
create more passive income than I have monthly expenses? And
(10:54):
if you don't know those answers, you got to start
with the formula and then you can start making decisions
and light of that that line up with your personality
and your training, your experiences, all those sort of things.
So we can dive into all that. But I think
it's Wall Street has tried to make this more complex
than it is, and I want to simplify for everybody
(11:14):
listening because you can get there. It's actually much easier
than they make it out to be.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, that is a great share, actually, And you know,
I always like to go back to because when I
talk about hard work not equaling more money, I don't
mean don't engage in her work because it's something I read.
It's one of my big values. I've been working hard
since I was a teenager, and I do value that.
(11:41):
I valueated my kids. I'm always like, you know, go,
you're working hard. But what you don't want to do
you want to be conscious. You want to be conscious
of what you're doing why, Like you said, you need
to know your why.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
That is a huge part.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
You can have a vision, but if there's no why
attached to it, you know, it's easy to just let
it go or not keep pursuing it. But yeah, so
it is absolutely nothing wrong with hard work.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
That's actually a great thing.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
But to do it because you think it's somehow connected
with you know, your bank account is just going to
be going up and up if you just keep working hard.
That's the piece. That's the mindset I think that needs
to shift. And you obviously have created this with a
completely different mindset, like like you can actually create all
this income passively and then you can choose what you
(12:33):
put on you on your calendar for the rest of
the time. So how did you how did you actually
go from you know, being working in the mortgage industry
to getting here?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Oh great question. It really you know I told you
about these kind of experiences that we're building in the background, Like, okay, one,
this stinks to not be present with my family, to
people ahead of me are dying early, you know, at
an early age because of stress and all this kind
of stuff. And there was even more things, you know,
(13:08):
that I could get into. But what it really I
didn't know the answer at the time. And then I
read a book in two thousand and nine that totally
shifted the way that I thought. You know, I went
from this, Hey, Wall Street is the answer, and I
can just put money there blindly and hope for the best.
And you know, retirement is the answer, and like, eventually
(13:31):
I could defer my life and then eventually I'll have
freedom of my time. But this book talked about taking
control of our finances. It talked about becoming an investor, ourselves,
putting money into our control instead of abdicating it to
an advisor somebody else who has had more you know,
(13:54):
things behind their name that said that they're smarter than
me and that they could quote unquote manage my mind
any better than I could. All those things became like,
wait a minute, why would I keep doing that? Like
I need to be the one in charge I need
to be. You know, if someone ever said, man, you
need to really consider your health, there's never an option
(14:17):
to say, well, I just don't really know that much
about health, and I don't. I'm just not that good at,
you know, knowing how to work out. And it's like
I can't abdicate that to somebody else. I can't say, hey, Michelle,
could you just take care of you know, working out
for me and eating right and all that it's just
to happen. Well, i could get a trainer to help me,
(14:40):
but I'm still the one that is responsible. I'm still
the steward. I like to use the word steward. I'm
the steward of my body. I'm the steward of my time.
I'm the steward of the resources God has given me.
And money is something I have to be the one
to take control of. And so anyways, that started me
(15:04):
on a whole path, and I started implementing the things
from the book. Four years later, I was like, this
is making a dramatic difference from my family, and I
got really passionate. I was like, I need to go
teach people this, Like I need to get out of
this career that I really loved at the time. To
(15:25):
be honest, I really enjoyed it. But I need to
go and do something that is going to make a
bigger impact in the world. And that was before I
even knew what a podcast was. So it's super cool
to see now, you know, impacting thousands and thousands of
people later. This was definitely the right step for me.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, so you have a podcast, Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah? Well, through that wall Street. We started our podcast
in twenty seventeen, so almost six hundred episodes I think
at this.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Portion, Oh fantastic. Okay, Okay, that's right for people to know,
and I'll put that in the show notes. But so,
what was like a first step?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, so the first step in this book, by the way,
the book's called Become Your Own Banker by Nelson Nash.
You've never read it, highly recommend it Nelson. Actually it
was from Birmingham, Alabama, which is where I live, and
it just happened. So happened. I read this book and
then he was here locally. We got to spend almost
(16:28):
a decade being personally mentored by him. And I say we,
me and my business partner, Russ go to lunch with
him and go to conferences with him and stuff like that.
So he was an amazing, amazing man poured into us.
And so one of the first things he talks about
in the book is really thinking like a bank. You
(16:50):
have to start capitalizing your life like a bank. And
how do banks make money? Will they make money off
of deposits that they then go and lend to other people.
They pay you for the use of your money, and
they make the spread. Right, But then it begged the question, well,
what does a bank do with their money? Right, the
(17:12):
money that they profit? And most everybody knows they buy
real estate, you know, because they always have these big,
you know, beautiful buildings and marble you know, floors and
all this sort of stuff. But the thing that most
people don't know that he points out in the book
is that they put almost double what they have in
(17:35):
real estate into cash value life insurance. And I thought,
I've always been told that's a bad thing, right, Like,
nobody puts money in life insurance. That's dumb. In fact,
I even went to the people at Wells Fargo Bank
and I said, hey, I'm reading about this book. This
guy claims life insurance is like a good vehicle to
(17:57):
store capital. And every one of these these are executives
at the bank that I worked up. They're always like, oh, no,
that's dumb. Nobody puts money in life insurance. And I
pulled up this is no joke, Michelle. I pull up
the balance sheet of Wells Fargo Bank and on line
forty one, they have nineteen point three billion dollars in
(18:21):
cash value life insurance. Wow. Okay, and they only had
twelve billion in real estate to give you context. Wow,
so almost double what they had in real estate they
had in cash value life insurance. And the people that
were in the bank that I was talking to and
interviewed about this idea were all insured by the bank.
(18:42):
So they're sitting there saying this is a bad idea,
and their employer is actually doing it. And so anyways,
long story, I started, I started following the blueprint, putting
capital into these policies, growing cash value you, and now
all of a sudden, I didn't know what to do
(19:03):
with it. I'm just gonna be honest with I had
no idea. I'm like, well, at least it's growing, it's
tax free, it's all these benefits. But I was like,
now what, Like I got to do something with this,
and it's just starting just stacking up all this cash.
And that's really what led us to the podcast and
(19:24):
creating because we're like, we got to interview people who
know what to do with money, like passive income. How
do we create it? How do we know what sort
of investor we are, like, what sort of opportunity? How
could we get exposed to as many ideas as possible.
We just started interviewing people and that has led one
thing to another that is created. Now. We went from
(19:46):
reporting to the world in twenty twenty that we only
had twenty five hundred dollars a month in passive income
to over fifty thousand a month now wow. And it's
because of all the things we've learned in that span
in between.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
That is amazing. Okay, very very cool.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Okay, So maybe can you give us a little short
explanation if there is a possible way to do that
on the cash value life insurance, Like.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
If somebody's listening or I don't know what that is,
I don't know how to do it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, I'll tell you this. It's not a short conversation,
especially if you have people that want to get into
like the really intricate details. But I'll tell you think
about it this way. It is a replacement of your
savings vehicle, okay, because most people think sav these accounts
and that's where you store cash until you go use
(20:43):
it for an investment or you go use it for
paying off a liability or something like that. Right. Well,
the things people know about savings accounts are what they're safe. Yeah,
they have some interest component, whether it's you know, zero
point two percent or whatever Chase is. Yeah, And it's
(21:05):
taxable and it's accessible. Right those are about the only
things we know. Well, you compare that to a life
insurance or cash value life insurance policy, and we're talking
about whole life here, not like index universal or any
of those other types. You compare it to that. These
are they're growing with a guaranteed greater return, typically three
(21:30):
to five percent over a long period of time. They
have dividends that are also tax free, so it's growing
at that but it's also growing tax free. It's accessible
either through withdrawals or loan a loan feature, and it
is typically credit or protected. But the key component is
(21:51):
that you can always borrow against it with the insurance company.
Like the insurance company gives you the ability. Let's say
I have one hundred thousand dollars of cash value. I
can borrow against that one hundred thousands collateral, use the
insurance company's money, go make an investment in something else,
and now the investment is growing, and my cash value
(22:13):
is growing at the same time. So that's a difference
between a savings account and this because I take money
out of my savings account to make the same investment,
that money's no longer growing. Investment is growing, right, not
go with but the cash is no longer growing. So
this allows us to do both of them at the
same time. And you start to think about what's the
(22:38):
real return. Whenever you start to stack this upon itself
and you start doing I think we have sixteen different
passive income streams, you start doing both of those at
the same time, it gets really exciting, really fast. Yeah,
to see the impact that your cash is going to
have over your lifetime versus just your investment portfolio.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Well, you know, speaking of your investment portfolio. I'm going
to ask you a question, and I don't want the
audience to think whatever the answer is is advice.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
This is curiosity on my part.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Okay, so I don't you know these are this is
meant to open people's minds and then if they're curious,
they go to somebody with more expertise to find out,
you know more. Basically, so, if I'm you know, if
I'm putting one thousand dollars a month into my stock portfolio,
in your opinion, would that thousand dollars a month be
(23:36):
better off, you know, buying some life insurance like you're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's a great question. So the first I would ask
the question behind that. Okay, I would say, what is
your ultimate objective that you're trying to accomplish? Because here's
what we would say is, in most cases, people putting
money directly into a stock portfolio is a money trap.
(24:02):
And why do I say that? Because we have to
remember what is how are we keeping score? If we're
trying to get financial freedom, We're saying I want more
passive income than I have monthly expenses. And I would say, okay,
I'm putting a thousand bucks a month into stock portfolio.
And let's say the stocks are going really well, they're
(24:25):
going up into the right, am I creating any passive
income from that.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Today, No, because it's it's just appreciating, right, It's.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Right, So I'm not getting any cash flow from it today,
is it? So if it's not producing a passive income,
is it reducing a monthly expense?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, it's not, it's not. I mean it's not doing either.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So then it's just a matter of is it getting
me closer to or further from financial free? It can
only be one or the two. And and here's the
thing about it. You think about it. If the money
is going if the if the portfolio is going up
into the right, do I ever want to stop and
(25:13):
take that money out or have it coming back towards me?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Mm hm?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Answered like, Psychologically no, I've got fomo right, I can't.
I don't want to lose out. But what if it's
going down? Do I want to do I want to
take money out at that time? Psychologically no, I don't
want to. I don't want to realize those losses. Right,
(25:38):
So we call it a money trap for that that
psychological purpose. If it's growing or if it's losing, I don't,
I just kind of stuck versus if I put the thousand.
This is just to answer the original question. If I
put the thousand into the into the cash value life insurance,
it's growing cash value every single month that I can
(26:01):
leverage into an asset that produces a passive income towards me,
that will create passive income which will then get me
closer to financial freedom. So it's not the life insurance
is not a replacement investment. Yeah, it's a savings vehicle
that then I use to create passive income. The investment
(26:24):
account or the portfolio is an investment. It's just does
it actually help me get to financial freedom? And I
would argue most cases, no.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I love that answer. And I also am realizing another
mindset that comes up for people, which comes up for
me because my dad always would talk about, you know,
you want to play the long game. You want to
make sure that you're saving for some distant future point. Yeah,
so my dad was always you know, growing up, and
(26:59):
I'd liked this and it because it applies to many things,
not just money. But you know, you are always focusing
on the long game, the future. So there's this like
idea that everything you're doing now isn't about cash flow today,
It's about someday.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
When you retire.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
If you want to retire, then everything happens like at
that point, at that juncture, what you do today will
allow you to suddenly live some life post retirement. And
I really love what you're saying because it's a different mindset.
It's you know, it's a very interesting way to look
at it.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well, I don't want to be in any way opposed
to what your dad's advice is, because you know, I
don't want to know roughly any feathers. But I'll tell
you I could.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Completely Yeah, it's old advice too. It worked for him back.
I mean, he would be ninety five, so you know
this is coming from a different era.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, but I mean, here's the thing. Even just the
concept of retirement, it tells us that we are meant,
at some stage in our life to be taken out
of service.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, I don't believe that at all. I mean, just inherently,
Michelle has value to bring to this world, right, I
have value to bring to this world, no matter what
the age is or whatever the idea is. The retirement
was brought on from the industrial age to say, hey,
(28:35):
you are essentially a cog and a wheel, and at
some point you need to be replaced with a younger cock. Yes,
and that is a that is a lie. I mean,
you have much more value than what you do, but
you can always bring value to this world. So the
idea of retirement doesn't make sense. And number two, it
(28:55):
also requires you to have the gear tea that tomorrow
is going to be here.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Whereas what we do know is our children are not
gonna want us around in the same capacity today that
they do twenty years from now or vice versa. Right.
I I this is just a story I'll just share
with because it just impacted me so much. My one
(29:24):
of my daughters, she's number four for me, where I
was taking her to school one day to look at
preschool and she's sitting back in the back. She's got
her little her little harness on and her you know,
her kid's seat, and she's just she's just talking away
because usually, you know, me and her don't get one
on one time a lot, and so she's just soaking
(29:46):
this up. She just yep, yep, yep, yep yep.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
But then she says, she says, Dad, you're gonna pick
me up from school today. And I was like, uh no,
I can't pick you up today. You know your mom's
gonna pick you up.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And first of all, I was a little bit like frustrated,
she asked me, because I'm like, she knows better than that,
Like I rarely even get to take her to school.
It's like a once in a lifetime thing because I'm
busy working all the time. And so I said, no,
your mom's gonna.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Pick you up.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
She says, why are you not gonna pick me up?
And I was like, well, I have to work. And
she said, this is this is where the impact. She said,
why you have to work? And I mean, this is
simple inn is questions, right, Yeah, And I said, well,
I have to pay for this car, I have to
(30:37):
pay for our house. I have to pay for the
food that we eat. She says, we already have car,
we already have a house, we already have groceries. And
I said that that's where it clicked for me. It's
like she wants nothing more than that to be with her. Yeah,
(31:03):
she doesn't care about all this other stuff. She wants me.
But I guarantee you, twenty years from now, we're not
gonna be having this conversation. Yeah, because she doesn't She's
going to be a totally different stage. I can't buy
this time back. Yeah, right, So retirement tells me I
(31:23):
have to wait twenty thirty, forty years depending on how
old I am today to start living when life is
happening today. And I will never regret spending time with her,
but I will regret not spending time with her. And
it was because that was the moment. I literally remember this, Michelle.
(31:44):
I went to my office and I told Russ, my
business partner. I was like, we got to create passive
income today, Like this is a this is before I
knew all this stuff. I'm just saying, and I was like,
this is a must. It's because I don't never want
to tell my daughter I have to go to work, right,
(32:06):
So I don't know, I'm just I love to share
these things because these are really impactful for me.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Well, and this is how people start to understand their
relationship with money. When you're saying I have to do this,
is it's something you don't want to do, but you've
got to do it, you're trapped. That's when we start, Honestly,
that's when we should start just asking ourselves questions.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
It's as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
It's like, you know, I always try to equate money
relationships with other relationships. So if you're saying, oh my gosh,
I have to see my boyfriend tonight, you know, I
wish I could be with my girlfriends, but I have
to do this. I mean, you have to spend a
minute thinking about why do.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
You feel that way?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Why are you using those words?
Speaker 3 (32:49):
And where is this going?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I mean, is it just gonna Is this a habit
that's going to continue for twenty more years?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
I mean, so.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
It's and it's interesting, I think if we think of
it that way, because people tend to want to run
away from you know. I mean, you could have done
that too. You could have been like, I don't want
to think about this. I'm just going to shut this
down right now what I have to do. And I
feel like we don't ask ours, we don't get introspective
or whatever and give this thought like you did. And
(33:17):
it changed your life thinking about that, And that's really
we should be open to these transitions. And you know,
in my dad's day, to go back to that, there
weren't a lot of options in at least within the
you know, paradigm of how he thought, and so you
did what was prescribed. And now we live in a
world where we do have options, you're, you know, educating
(33:40):
people around those, and we should stop and ask ourselves,
you know, could this be better?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Could this be a way out?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
You know, I have actually a question for you and
light of that in Michelle, So you're you're constantly helping
people understand their relationship with money. R Do you find
that people just don't know how to dream anymore?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
That's a great question. I find that in many areas.
I found it a lot with people, high level executives
who wanted to transition or were forced into a transition,
and you would ask them. I mean, since the time
I started coaching, the question what do you want is
literally the hardest question for people to answer.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I mean, yeah, we found the same thing. Well, we've
talked people through a past income operating system. One of
the first things is what would you do if you
were financially free? Today? Very few people can even think about, like,
they can't even imagine what that would be like. And
(34:46):
I would just tell you that is one of the
first things we talked about. Having your why. Your why
starts with a lot of times just thinking what am
I passionate about? What would I be doing if I
didn't somebody else's schedule outlining for me what I had
to do every week. And so it's just amazing to
(35:07):
me if you can stop and dream a little bit,
give yourself the license. Like when you were four or five,
you could dream all day long. Today, go back to
that what could I be doing? And that may be
like the spark that ignites, like got to do something
different with my money because I'm not going to change
(35:27):
just for change sake. I got to change to accomplish
whatever I was and I think of it as impact.
You know, what impact can I have? And it's going to,
you know, maybe be uncomfortable, Like I left a career
making over three hundred thousand dollars a year to go
start from scratch, and it was because I was anchored
(35:50):
in this idea that this is going to be more
impactful for people than just helping them with a mortgage transaction. Right,
that was good? This is better.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I love that you're talking about this.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
It is so important to think about this and what
I find too, And I'll ask you if you find
this is when people do start dreaming, They honestly dream
pretty small, like you think everybody is, like I'm gonna
make a billion dollar know and and the billion dollar
thing is ridiculous to me because like if you actually
cost it out what you want and then you put
numbers to it, you know, oftentimes it's.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Not even a million dollars alone a billion dollars.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
But so but I also find it's it's it's very evolutionary.
Like you start out with a dream that feels like
a stretch, but you know, objectively, somebody looking at it
and won't think, oh, that's not a very big dream,
but that's okay. And then as you, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You kind of level up.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I have a business mentor who talks about, you know, uh,
new devil, new level, and it's so or maybe it's
the opposite. I can't remember. I think that's it, but
it's always that way. And I think once you start
exercising that that dreaming muscle, you start doing it better.
I actually had something came to me yesterday. It's an
(37:04):
idea for myself, and I'm like, WHOA, that's like bigger
thinking than I'm used to, and I'm trained in this.
I try really hard to think, you know, to vision
and revision. But you get to points where suddenly you
realize you've been thinking too small and probably when you
started this, I don't know what you were doing when
you started the pass of income thing, but I don't
(37:25):
know if you were thinking of completely replacing you know, income,
high levels of income or not, and maybe you know,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Well, to be honest, my exposure to what was out
there was growing, and so I was starting to get
more and more confidence that that was possible, but it
was a long way off. I can I can assure you, yeah,
but I think you know to your point, and I
don't want to like totally get off track, but I'll
(37:54):
say that's why we have coaches in our lives, like you,
helping people understand their money. Some people are just out
of plateau, and if they don't have that outside you know,
source that outside objective person who has a different perspective,
you know, like I need to stand on someone's shoulders
(38:17):
to be able to see what they see. And so anyways,
I think it's super valuable what you're doing. As a result.
The same thing is true with like our passive income
operating system coaches. They're helping people to see what's possible
because sometimes they just don't quite see it. I Liken
(38:38):
it to being in a tunnel. You know, you can
look at one if you're at one end and you
look out the other, you can see like this little
bit of light. Yeah, but as you start taking steps
towards it, what happens. The light becomes bigger because the
end of the tunnel becomes closer, and all of a
sudden it was always there. It's not like there's new
(39:01):
information or new you know things. The actual end result
was always there. You just couldn't. You weren't didn't have
the right perspective to see it. And so you take
these steps, you start putting these things into action. I mean,
I'm very open honest about my process. I just started
putting money into these policies to learn, like to have
(39:23):
money at my access. I didn't know what to do
with it. Yeah, I didn't know it was going to
lead to fifty thousand a month in passive income. I
didn't know it was going to lead to a podcast.
I didn't know any of that. But I just took
a step, the next right step that makes sense. And
so anyways, I.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Love I love that term. This is fantastic. I hate
that we're out of time, but we are actually went
a little long, but tell people how to contact you
learn more.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I mean, this is a this is a topic.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I can't think of really many people who don't want
to learn about passive income and it's not something we're
taught about and you might see somebody doing it, but
you know, so this is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
They are actually helping people to accomplish this.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Well, we're excited to help the person who's motivated to
do this and take action. They just need a system
and then they need training, right, they need system, they
need training, and so we're happy to help people with
that process. If you go to wealthroughout Wallstreet dot com,
forward slash money in you, well throughout Wallstreet dot com,
Forward slash money and You, you could take a free quiz.
(40:34):
There's a couple of free resources all my contact infos
on there. I just love when people reach out to
me and tell me, hey, I heard you and Michelle
talking on money in you. Just let me know that
to give me some context and our team will be
thrilled to work with you.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Thank you so much, thank you for that offer.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
And I really want to say if you loved this
podcast with Joey, we also when you contacted me, I
remember the.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Website The Wealth Without Wall Street and realized that we
had had your partner, Rus Morgan on a while ago. Actually,
so I'll put in the show notes his show in
between the two of you. You know, the audience can
learn a little bit more as well.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But well please let me know that mine was better
than his. You know, we're always competing, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I think you did a great job talking about some
mindset things that I love talking about, so I think
you'll actually get a pretty different show for both of you.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
So this is great.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, Joey, thank you so much. This has been very,
very interesting. There's so much more to talk about. I
think we touched on one passive income team out of
how many they help people with.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Oh, there's at least sixteen to twenty that we personally do.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
So okay, all right, well that's a reason to grab
that quiz in contact to you as well.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Welcome without Wall Street dot com is your website, and yeah,
I'll be getting this out there and I so appreciate
you coming on. I think this was interesting on so
many levels. So you really help people see the why
around this, which I find really important, so thank.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
You, well, thank you likewise, this great great time.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Okay, well, thank you and thank you audience for joining
us on another great episode of the Money and You Show.
We love having you listen to the show. We hope
you continue to do so. Subscribe, leave us a rating
and a review. Share it with your friends. This is
I know you know people who need to hear this show,
so please share it and we are so grateful and
thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
And we'll see you next week.
So if I'm you know, if I'm putting one thousand
dollars a month into my stock portfolio, in your opinion,
would that thousand dollars a month be better off, you know,
buying some life insurance like you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's a great question. So the first I would ask
a question behind that? Okay, I would say, what is
your ultimate objective that you're trying to accomplish? Because here's
what we would say is, in most cases, people putting
money directly into a stock portfolio is a money trap.
(00:36):
And why do I say that? Because we have to
remember what is how are we keeping score? If we're
trying to get financial freedom, we're saying I want more
passive income than I have monthly expenses. And I would say, okay,
I'm putting one thousand bucks a month into stock portfolio,
and let's say the stocks are going really well, they're
(00:58):
going up into the right, Am I creating any passive
income from that? Today?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Hey there, and welcome to Money and You. I'm Michelle Perkins,
your host. My search for more fulfilling work led me
to career in business coaching, where I stumbled upon a
game changing discovery. Money issues often start with our mindset
and habits. You see, our relationship with money is the
key to overcoming those frustrating financial obstacles. As an entrepreneur, coach,
(01:30):
and problem solver, I'm passionate about helping you create a
great relationship with money, because turns out that's the foundation
for a limit free life. Each week on Money in You,
I speak with amazing guests about all things money, mindset,
practical tips, and everything in between. We're here to give
you new insights, education and empowerment, so money can be
(01:52):
one of your favorite relationships.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
So join us for some lively.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Conversations and let's transform.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Your financial life together.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Hello, Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Money
and You Show. I'm Michelle Perkins, your host, and we
are broadcasting along with ubngo dot com. And thank you
U Ben for your help. And I want to get
started pretty quickly here because we have another great guest
on today. I just love the variety of topics that
(02:26):
our guests are bringing to light for people and super
excited to speak today with Joey Murray. He's co founder
and partner at Wealth Without Wall Street, an online community
that seeks to re educate business owners and families on
how money truly works. Wall Street is not just a
(02:47):
street in New York, New York that puts Americans money
at risk, but it's also a commonly taught mindset.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Wealth without Wall.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Street exists to help people who want to become financially
free without ever having to invest through Wall Street or
become debt free. Joey, thank you so much. I'm so
happy to have you here today. This is going to
be a great discussion. And you know, after reading your bio,
you're so aligned I think with this show. And you know,
(03:17):
there are a lot of people talking about financial freedom
out there, but sometimes it's just a phrase, it's a catchphrase.
And with others, like the kind folks who come on
my show, it's it's there's actually a pathway and a
lot of thought behind what that really means and experience
as well in helping people actually do that. So can
(03:37):
you tell us a little more about your background and
how you got to be doing this?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Absolutely, Michelle, it's always good to be with like minded
people and so this has not work for me. It's
a privilege. You know, I was stuck in the corporate
grind for eleven years in the mortgage business, and I
didn't even realize that I was in the middle of
the rat race for a long time. And what I
(04:02):
mean by that is I was in this position where
I was making lots of money. I was making more
and more income, but it really didn't give me any
sort of fulfillment or freedom that I had originally thought
higher income equals more freedom. In fact, it was quite
the opposite. You know, I think you know before the show,
(04:25):
I told you that my daughter was the one that
painted these pictures in my background. But I have five daughters.
I don't think I shared that part with you. And
you know, I remember as I was getting older, we
were having more kids, I was getting less and less
and less time with them, and I was telling them,
(04:45):
I'm working for you. But it really, you know, kind
of shook me. When they were younger, we go to
the beach, and this is a very common story for
high level entrepreneurs, but for me, it was a wake
up call. We're at the beach, and I told my
wife and kids. I was like, you guys, go on
(05:06):
down to the beach. I'll be right behind you. I
just have to take one more call. And you know,
I know everybody's nod their head like yep, been there.
And what happened? Four hours later, I'm walking down that
board walk behind the beach house and there it goes
to my wife and those beautiful girls walking back the
(05:27):
other way. But their faces were just full of regret, disappointment, discouragement.
There's Dad, He's physically in our presence, but he is
nowhere to be found, like mentally, emotionally, he's miles away.
And what it was is I didn't know it at
the time, Schelle, but I was the only asset at
(05:50):
work in my family. Yeah, there was no money at work.
Money was not coming, money was not working as hard
as I was, and so therefore I had no freedom.
I had to keep my foot on the gas pedal,
because as soon as I let up, what happened That
next deal didn't come in the door, that next deal
(06:10):
and didn't close that next I was chasing. That's exactly
what the rat race is, and something had to change.
I didn't know the answer at the time, but over
the course of the next several years, I learned some
things changed the trajectory, and that has led to what
is now Wealth Without Wall Street, where we're helping people
to get to financial freedom as fast as possible.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, oof, A lot there.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Financial freedom is a really interesting term, and it's googled
a lot. Is out there, a lot, But it's so actually,
it's so individual. So what constitutes financial freedom for one
person is a very different thing from somebody else. I mean,
a person with five daughters being financially free is a
different thing than a single thirty year old, you know,
(06:58):
somewhere in a big city.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I mean, it's just you.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Have to spend that time, I feel, really trying to
define it for yourself, and I think most people don't.
They're just you know, they get on that treadmill and
they get into the rat rais and once you're in it,
you know, there's not that much time to sit and
contemplate your life. I mean I do vividly remember that
from my corporate days. As an entrepreneur, I resist it little,
(07:23):
but I'm always told have a few hours a week
that are just your visioning time. You go outside and
sit under tree with your notepad and write your ideas.
I mean, unless you have that space, you can't get creative,
you can't figure out what financial freedom really is, not
what you know, this kind of illusion that's out there.
(07:44):
And you bring up a great point, because I love
talking about mindset and this idea that hard work, you know,
equals more money is a huge one that we grew
up with. You know, go to school, work hard, and
everything's going to be fine. But it you know, it's
not actually a good mindset. I mean to put it
(08:05):
as simply as possible, because you can work yourself to
death or to a point where you're not seeing your
family and it doesn't equate to more money. No.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
In fact, I remember this, the fact that you just
said that made me think of this. I was at
Wells Fargar at the time, and I was a branch manager,
but there was one guy above me, and then there
was a guy above him, the regional manager, and I
remember like thinking, oh, man, I could move up in
the company and all this sort of stuff. I actually
(08:36):
had spent time with the regional manager personally, and actually
the more I got to know about him, I didn't
really like him very much. Like I didn't really like
his lifestyle to begin with. And then that wasn't like,
you know, totally putting me off. But literally a couple
of years later, the guy died on a treadmill at
(09:00):
a conference that he was traveling for work, literally heart
attack when he was like in his early fifties. And
I remember thinking, man, the amount of stress that he
must have been under that led to that, I don't
want anything to do with that, Like that's not the future,
Like that's not what I'm signing up for. And I
(09:22):
think what you just said is, I'm going to clarify
one thing you said. People have to define financial freedom
for themselves. They have to actually know their why or
what would they be doing if they were financially free.
And I think that is a very personal thing, but
I'll simplify it for everybody else listening. The formula is
(09:47):
actually universal. It's actually everybody can have the same formula.
And that is, when your passive income exceeds your monthly expenses,
you're financially free. I didn't come up with that. That's
a Robert Kiyosaki. That's probably somebody before Robert Kiyosaki. But
when you have more money coming in that you're not
working for than your monthly expenses, you then get to
(10:11):
pull up I'm just sitting here looking at my phone.
I get to pull up my phone and all those
little colored boxes. You know, we're all used to doing that, right,
we put them in there. But I get to put
those boxes into those spaces like nobody else is actually
placing those on my calendar on their behalf, because I'm
(10:33):
not trading my time for their money, right, I get
to choose. That is what the definition and the formula
gets you. And so our job is not to, you know,
make finances really complex and confusing. It's how can I
create more passive income than I have monthly expenses? And
(10:54):
if you don't know those answers, you got to start
with the formula and then you can start making decisions
and light of that that line up with your personality
and your training, your experiences, all those sort of things.
So we can dive into all that. But I think
it's Wall Street has tried to make this more complex
than it is, and I want to simplify for everybody
(11:14):
listening because you can get there. It's actually much easier
than they make it out to be.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, that is a great share, actually, And you know,
I always like to go back to because when I
talk about hard work not equaling more money, I don't
mean don't engage in her work because it's something I read.
It's one of my big values. I've been working hard
since I was a teenager, and I do value that.
(11:41):
I valueated my kids. I'm always like, you know, go,
you're working hard. But what you don't want to do
you want to be conscious. You want to be conscious
of what you're doing why, Like you said, you need
to know your why.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
That is a huge part.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
You can have a vision, but if there's no why
attached to it, you know, it's easy to just let
it go or not keep pursuing it. But yeah, so
it is absolutely nothing wrong with hard work.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
That's actually a great thing.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
But to do it because you think it's somehow connected
with you know, your bank account is just going to
be going up and up if you just keep working hard.
That's the piece. That's the mindset I think that needs
to shift. And you obviously have created this with a
completely different mindset, like like you can actually create all
this income passively and then you can choose what you
(12:33):
put on you on your calendar for the rest of
the time. So how did you how did you actually
go from you know, being working in the mortgage industry
to getting here?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Oh great question. It really you know I told you
about these kind of experiences that we're building in the background, Like, okay, one,
this stinks to not be present with my family, to
people ahead of me are dying early, you know, at
an early age because of stress and all this kind
of stuff. And there was even more things, you know,
(13:08):
that I could get into. But what it really I
didn't know the answer at the time. And then I
read a book in two thousand and nine that totally
shifted the way that I thought. You know, I went
from this, Hey, Wall Street is the answer, and I
can just put money there blindly and hope for the best.
And you know, retirement is the answer, and like, eventually
(13:31):
I could defer my life and then eventually I'll have
freedom of my time. But this book talked about taking
control of our finances. It talked about becoming an investor, ourselves,
putting money into our control instead of abdicating it to
an advisor somebody else who has had more you know,
(13:54):
things behind their name that said that they're smarter than
me and that they could quote unquote manage my mind
any better than I could. All those things became like,
wait a minute, why would I keep doing that? Like
I need to be the one in charge I need
to be. You know, if someone ever said, man, you
need to really consider your health, there's never an option
(14:17):
to say, well, I just don't really know that much
about health, and I don't. I'm just not that good at,
you know, knowing how to work out. And it's like
I can't abdicate that to somebody else. I can't say, hey, Michelle,
could you just take care of you know, working out
for me and eating right and all that it's just
to happen. Well, i could get a trainer to help me,
(14:40):
but I'm still the one that is responsible. I'm still
the steward. I like to use the word steward. I'm
the steward of my body. I'm the steward of my time.
I'm the steward of the resources God has given me.
And money is something I have to be the one
to take control of. And so anyways, that started me
(15:04):
on a whole path, and I started implementing the things
from the book. Four years later, I was like, this
is making a dramatic difference from my family, and I
got really passionate. I was like, I need to go
teach people this, Like I need to get out of
this career that I really loved at the time. To
(15:25):
be honest, I really enjoyed it. But I need to
go and do something that is going to make a
bigger impact in the world. And that was before I
even knew what a podcast was. So it's super cool
to see now, you know, impacting thousands and thousands of
people later. This was definitely the right step for me.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, so you have a podcast, Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yeah? Well, through that wall Street. We started our podcast
in twenty seventeen, so almost six hundred episodes I think
at this.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Portion, Oh fantastic. Okay, Okay, that's right for people to know,
and I'll put that in the show notes. But so,
what was like a first step?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, so the first step in this book, by the way,
the book's called Become Your Own Banker by Nelson Nash.
You've never read it, highly recommend it Nelson. Actually it
was from Birmingham, Alabama, which is where I live, and
it just happened. So happened. I read this book and
then he was here locally. We got to spend almost
(16:28):
a decade being personally mentored by him. And I say we,
me and my business partner, Russ go to lunch with
him and go to conferences with him and stuff like that.
So he was an amazing, amazing man poured into us.
And so one of the first things he talks about
in the book is really thinking like a bank. You
(16:50):
have to start capitalizing your life like a bank. And
how do banks make money? Will they make money off
of deposits that they then go and lend to other people.
They pay you for the use of your money, and
they make the spread. Right, But then it begged the question, well,
what does a bank do with their money? Right, the
(17:12):
money that they profit? And most everybody knows they buy
real estate, you know, because they always have these big,
you know, beautiful buildings and marble you know, floors and
all this sort of stuff. But the thing that most
people don't know that he points out in the book
is that they put almost double what they have in
(17:35):
real estate into cash value life insurance. And I thought,
I've always been told that's a bad thing, right, Like,
nobody puts money in life insurance. That's dumb. In fact,
I even went to the people at Wells Fargo Bank
and I said, hey, I'm reading about this book. This
guy claims life insurance is like a good vehicle to
(17:57):
store capital. And every one of these these are executives
at the bank that I worked up. They're always like, oh, no,
that's dumb. Nobody puts money in life insurance. And I
pulled up this is no joke, Michelle. I pull up
the balance sheet of Wells Fargo Bank and on line
forty one, they have nineteen point three billion dollars in
(18:21):
cash value life insurance. Wow. Okay, and they only had
twelve billion in real estate to give you context. Wow,
so almost double what they had in real estate they
had in cash value life insurance. And the people that
were in the bank that I was talking to and
interviewed about this idea were all insured by the bank.
(18:42):
So they're sitting there saying this is a bad idea,
and their employer is actually doing it. And so anyways,
long story, I started, I started following the blueprint, putting
capital into these policies, growing cash value you, and now
all of a sudden, I didn't know what to do
(19:03):
with it. I'm just gonna be honest with I had
no idea. I'm like, well, at least it's growing, it's
tax free, it's all these benefits. But I was like,
now what, Like I got to do something with this,
and it's just starting just stacking up all this cash.
And that's really what led us to the podcast and
(19:24):
creating because we're like, we got to interview people who
know what to do with money, like passive income. How
do we create it? How do we know what sort
of investor we are, like, what sort of opportunity? How
could we get exposed to as many ideas as possible.
We just started interviewing people and that has led one
thing to another that is created. Now. We went from
(19:46):
reporting to the world in twenty twenty that we only
had twenty five hundred dollars a month in passive income
to over fifty thousand a month now wow. And it's
because of all the things we've learned in that span
in between.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
That is amazing. Okay, very very cool.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Okay, So maybe can you give us a little short
explanation if there is a possible way to do that
on the cash value life insurance, Like.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
If somebody's listening or I don't know what that is,
I don't know how to do it.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, I'll tell you this. It's not a short conversation,
especially if you have people that want to get into
like the really intricate details. But I'll tell you think
about it this way. It is a replacement of your
savings vehicle, okay, because most people think sav these accounts
and that's where you store cash until you go use
(20:43):
it for an investment or you go use it for
paying off a liability or something like that. Right. Well,
the things people know about savings accounts are what they're safe. Yeah,
they have some interest component, whether it's you know, zero
point two percent or whatever Chase is. Yeah, And it's
(21:05):
taxable and it's accessible. Right those are about the only
things we know. Well, you compare that to a life
insurance or cash value life insurance policy, and we're talking
about whole life here, not like index universal or any
of those other types. You compare it to that. These
are they're growing with a guaranteed greater return, typically three
(21:30):
to five percent over a long period of time. They
have dividends that are also tax free, so it's growing
at that but it's also growing tax free. It's accessible
either through withdrawals or loan a loan feature, and it
is typically credit or protected. But the key component is
(21:51):
that you can always borrow against it with the insurance company.
Like the insurance company gives you the ability. Let's say
I have one hundred thousand dollars of cash value. I
can borrow against that one hundred thousands collateral, use the
insurance company's money, go make an investment in something else,
and now the investment is growing, and my cash value
(22:13):
is growing at the same time. So that's a difference
between a savings account and this because I take money
out of my savings account to make the same investment,
that money's no longer growing. Investment is growing, right, not
go with but the cash is no longer growing. So
this allows us to do both of them at the
same time. And you start to think about what's the
(22:38):
real return. Whenever you start to stack this upon itself
and you start doing I think we have sixteen different
passive income streams, you start doing both of those at
the same time, it gets really exciting, really fast. Yeah,
to see the impact that your cash is going to
have over your lifetime versus just your investment portfolio.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Well, you know, speaking of your investment portfolio. I'm going
to ask you a question, and I don't want the
audience to think whatever the answer is is advice.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
This is curiosity on my part.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Okay, so I don't you know these are this is
meant to open people's minds and then if they're curious,
they go to somebody with more expertise to find out,
you know more. Basically, so, if I'm you know, if
I'm putting one thousand dollars a month into my stock portfolio,
in your opinion, would that thousand dollars a month be
(23:36):
better off, you know, buying some life insurance like you're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's a great question. So the first I would ask
the question behind that. Okay, I would say, what is
your ultimate objective that you're trying to accomplish? Because here's
what we would say is, in most cases, people putting
money directly into a stock portfolio is a money trap.
(24:02):
And why do I say that? Because we have to
remember what is how are we keeping score? If we're
trying to get financial freedom, We're saying I want more
passive income than I have monthly expenses. And I would say, okay,
I'm putting a thousand bucks a month into stock portfolio.
And let's say the stocks are going really well, they're
(24:25):
going up into the right, am I creating any passive
income from that.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Today, No, because it's it's just appreciating, right, It's.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Right, So I'm not getting any cash flow from it today,
is it? So if it's not producing a passive income,
is it reducing a monthly expense?
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Interesting?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, it's not, it's not. I mean it's not doing either.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So then it's just a matter of is it getting
me closer to or further from financial free? It can
only be one or the two. And and here's the
thing about it. You think about it. If the money
is going if the if the portfolio is going up
into the right, do I ever want to stop and
(25:13):
take that money out or have it coming back towards me?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Mm hm?
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Answered like, Psychologically no, I've got fomo right, I can't.
I don't want to lose out. But what if it's
going down? Do I want to do I want to
take money out at that time? Psychologically no, I don't
want to. I don't want to realize those losses. Right,
(25:38):
So we call it a money trap for that that
psychological purpose. If it's growing or if it's losing, I don't,
I just kind of stuck versus if I put the thousand.
This is just to answer the original question. If I
put the thousand into the into the cash value life insurance,
it's growing cash value every single month that I can
(26:01):
leverage into an asset that produces a passive income towards me,
that will create passive income which will then get me
closer to financial freedom. So it's not the life insurance
is not a replacement investment. Yeah, it's a savings vehicle
that then I use to create passive income. The investment
(26:24):
account or the portfolio is an investment. It's just does
it actually help me get to financial freedom? And I
would argue most cases, no.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I love that answer. And I also am realizing another
mindset that comes up for people, which comes up for
me because my dad always would talk about, you know,
you want to play the long game. You want to
make sure that you're saving for some distant future point. Yeah,
so my dad was always you know, growing up, and
(26:59):
I'd liked this and it because it applies to many things,
not just money. But you know, you are always focusing
on the long game, the future. So there's this like
idea that everything you're doing now isn't about cash flow today,
It's about someday.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
When you retire.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
If you want to retire, then everything happens like at
that point, at that juncture, what you do today will
allow you to suddenly live some life post retirement. And
I really love what you're saying because it's a different mindset.
It's you know, it's a very interesting way to look
at it.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well, I don't want to be in any way opposed
to what your dad's advice is, because you know, I
don't want to know roughly any feathers. But I'll tell
you I could.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Completely Yeah, it's old advice too. It worked for him back.
I mean, he would be ninety five, so you know
this is coming from a different era.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, but I mean, here's the thing. Even just the
concept of retirement, it tells us that we are meant,
at some stage in our life to be taken out
of service.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, I don't believe that at all. I mean, just inherently,
Michelle has value to bring to this world, right, I
have value to bring to this world, no matter what
the age is or whatever the idea is. The retirement
was brought on from the industrial age to say, hey,
(28:35):
you are essentially a cog and a wheel, and at
some point you need to be replaced with a younger cock. Yes,
and that is a that is a lie. I mean,
you have much more value than what you do, but
you can always bring value to this world. So the
idea of retirement doesn't make sense. And number two, it
(28:55):
also requires you to have the gear tea that tomorrow
is going to be here.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Whereas what we do know is our children are not
gonna want us around in the same capacity today that
they do twenty years from now or vice versa. Right.
I I this is just a story I'll just share
with because it just impacted me so much. My one
(29:24):
of my daughters, she's number four for me, where I
was taking her to school one day to look at
preschool and she's sitting back in the back. She's got
her little her little harness on and her you know,
her kid's seat, and she's just she's just talking away
because usually, you know, me and her don't get one
on one time a lot, and so she's just soaking
(29:46):
this up. She just yep, yep, yep, yep yep.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
But then she says, she says, Dad, you're gonna pick
me up from school today. And I was like, uh no,
I can't pick you up today. You know your mom's
gonna pick you up.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And first of all, I was a little bit like frustrated,
she asked me, because I'm like, she knows better than that,
Like I rarely even get to take her to school.
It's like a once in a lifetime thing because I'm
busy working all the time. And so I said, no,
your mom's gonna.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Pick you up.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
She says, why are you not gonna pick me up?
And I was like, well, I have to work. And
she said, this is this is where the impact. She said,
why you have to work? And I mean, this is
simple inn is questions, right, Yeah, And I said, well,
I have to pay for this car, I have to
(30:37):
pay for our house. I have to pay for the
food that we eat. She says, we already have car,
we already have a house, we already have groceries. And
I said that that's where it clicked for me. It's
like she wants nothing more than that to be with her. Yeah,
(31:03):
she doesn't care about all this other stuff. She wants me.
But I guarantee you, twenty years from now, we're not
gonna be having this conversation. Yeah, because she doesn't She's
going to be a totally different stage. I can't buy
this time back. Yeah, right, So retirement tells me I
(31:23):
have to wait twenty thirty, forty years depending on how
old I am today to start living when life is
happening today. And I will never regret spending time with her,
but I will regret not spending time with her. And
it was because that was the moment. I literally remember this, Michelle.
(31:44):
I went to my office and I told Russ, my
business partner. I was like, we got to create passive
income today, Like this is a this is before I
knew all this stuff. I'm just saying, and I was like,
this is a must. It's because I don't never want
to tell my daughter I have to go to work, right,
(32:06):
So I don't know, I'm just I love to share
these things because these are really impactful for me.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Well, and this is how people start to understand their
relationship with money. When you're saying I have to do this,
is it's something you don't want to do, but you've
got to do it, you're trapped. That's when we start, Honestly,
that's when we should start just asking ourselves questions.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
It's as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
It's like, you know, I always try to equate money
relationships with other relationships. So if you're saying, oh my gosh,
I have to see my boyfriend tonight, you know, I
wish I could be with my girlfriends, but I have
to do this. I mean, you have to spend a
minute thinking about why do.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
You feel that way?
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Why are you using those words?
Speaker 3 (32:49):
And where is this going?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
I mean, is it just gonna Is this a habit
that's going to continue for twenty more years?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
I mean, so.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
It's and it's interesting, I think if we think of
it that way, because people tend to want to run
away from you know. I mean, you could have done
that too. You could have been like, I don't want
to think about this. I'm just going to shut this
down right now what I have to do. And I
feel like we don't ask ours, we don't get introspective
or whatever and give this thought like you did. And
(33:17):
it changed your life thinking about that, And that's really
we should be open to these transitions. And you know,
in my dad's day, to go back to that, there
weren't a lot of options in at least within the
you know, paradigm of how he thought, and so you
did what was prescribed. And now we live in a
world where we do have options, you're, you know, educating
(33:40):
people around those, and we should stop and ask ourselves,
you know, could this be better?
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Could this be a way out?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
You know, I have actually a question for you and
light of that in Michelle, So you're you're constantly helping
people understand their relationship with money. R Do you find
that people just don't know how to dream anymore?
Speaker 1 (34:01):
That's a great question. I find that in many areas.
I found it a lot with people, high level executives
who wanted to transition or were forced into a transition,
and you would ask them. I mean, since the time
I started coaching, the question what do you want is
literally the hardest question for people to answer.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I mean, yeah, we found the same thing. Well, we've
talked people through a past income operating system. One of
the first things is what would you do if you
were financially free? Today? Very few people can even think about, like,
they can't even imagine what that would be like. And
(34:46):
I would just tell you that is one of the
first things we talked about. Having your why. Your why
starts with a lot of times just thinking what am
I passionate about? What would I be doing if I
didn't somebody else's schedule outlining for me what I had
to do every week. And so it's just amazing to
(35:07):
me if you can stop and dream a little bit,
give yourself the license. Like when you were four or five,
you could dream all day long. Today, go back to
that what could I be doing? And that may be
like the spark that ignites, like got to do something
different with my money because I'm not going to change
(35:27):
just for change sake. I got to change to accomplish
whatever I was and I think of it as impact.
You know, what impact can I have? And it's going to,
you know, maybe be uncomfortable, Like I left a career
making over three hundred thousand dollars a year to go
start from scratch, and it was because I was anchored
(35:50):
in this idea that this is going to be more
impactful for people than just helping them with a mortgage transaction. Right,
that was good? This is better.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I love that you're talking about this.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
It is so important to think about this and what
I find too, And I'll ask you if you find
this is when people do start dreaming, They honestly dream
pretty small, like you think everybody is, like I'm gonna
make a billion dollar know and and the billion dollar
thing is ridiculous to me because like if you actually
cost it out what you want and then you put
numbers to it, you know, oftentimes it's.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Not even a million dollars alone a billion dollars.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
But so but I also find it's it's it's very evolutionary.
Like you start out with a dream that feels like
a stretch, but you know, objectively, somebody looking at it
and won't think, oh, that's not a very big dream,
but that's okay. And then as you, you know.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You kind of level up.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I have a business mentor who talks about, you know, uh,
new devil, new level, and it's so or maybe it's
the opposite. I can't remember. I think that's it, but
it's always that way. And I think once you start
exercising that that dreaming muscle, you start doing it better.
I actually had something came to me yesterday. It's an
(37:04):
idea for myself, and I'm like, WHOA, that's like bigger
thinking than I'm used to, and I'm trained in this.
I try really hard to think, you know, to vision
and revision. But you get to points where suddenly you
realize you've been thinking too small and probably when you
started this, I don't know what you were doing when
you started the pass of income thing, but I don't
(37:25):
know if you were thinking of completely replacing you know, income,
high levels of income or not, and maybe you know,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Well, to be honest, my exposure to what was out
there was growing, and so I was starting to get
more and more confidence that that was possible, but it
was a long way off. I can I can assure you, yeah,
but I think you know to your point, and I
don't want to like totally get off track, but I'll
(37:54):
say that's why we have coaches in our lives, like you,
helping people understand their money. Some people are just out
of plateau, and if they don't have that outside you know,
source that outside objective person who has a different perspective,
you know, like I need to stand on someone's shoulders
(38:17):
to be able to see what they see. And so anyways,
I think it's super valuable what you're doing. As a result.
The same thing is true with like our passive income
operating system coaches. They're helping people to see what's possible
because sometimes they just don't quite see it. I Liken
(38:38):
it to being in a tunnel. You know, you can
look at one if you're at one end and you
look out the other, you can see like this little
bit of light. Yeah, but as you start taking steps
towards it, what happens. The light becomes bigger because the
end of the tunnel becomes closer, and all of a
sudden it was always there. It's not like there's new
(39:01):
information or new you know things. The actual end result
was always there. You just couldn't. You weren't didn't have
the right perspective to see it. And so you take
these steps, you start putting these things into action. I mean,
I'm very open honest about my process. I just started
putting money into these policies to learn, like to have
(39:23):
money at my access. I didn't know what to do
with it. Yeah, I didn't know it was going to
lead to fifty thousand a month in passive income. I
didn't know it was going to lead to a podcast.
I didn't know any of that. But I just took
a step, the next right step that makes sense. And
so anyways, I.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Love I love that term. This is fantastic. I hate
that we're out of time, but we are actually went
a little long, but tell people how to contact you
learn more.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
I mean, this is a this is a topic.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I can't think of really many people who don't want
to learn about passive income and it's not something we're
taught about and you might see somebody doing it, but
you know, so this is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
They are actually helping people to accomplish this.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Well, we're excited to help the person who's motivated to
do this and take action. They just need a system
and then they need training, right, they need system, they
need training, and so we're happy to help people with
that process. If you go to wealthroughout Wallstreet dot com,
forward slash money in you, well throughout Wallstreet dot com,
Forward slash money and You, you could take a free quiz.
(40:34):
There's a couple of free resources all my contact infos
on there. I just love when people reach out to
me and tell me, hey, I heard you and Michelle
talking on money in you. Just let me know that
to give me some context and our team will be
thrilled to work with you.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Thank you so much, thank you for that offer.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
And I really want to say if you loved this
podcast with Joey, we also when you contacted me, I
remember the.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Website The Wealth Without Wall Street and realized that we
had had your partner, Rus Morgan on a while ago. Actually,
so I'll put in the show notes his show in
between the two of you. You know, the audience can
learn a little bit more as well.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But well please let me know that mine was better
than his. You know, we're always competing, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
I think you did a great job talking about some
mindset things that I love talking about, so I think
you'll actually get a pretty different show for both of you.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
So this is great.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Yeah, Joey, thank you so much. This has been very,
very interesting. There's so much more to talk about. I
think we touched on one passive income team out of
how many they help people with.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Oh, there's at least sixteen to twenty that we personally do.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
So okay, all right, well that's a reason to grab
that quiz in contact to you as well.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
So thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Welcome without Wall Street dot com is your website, and yeah,
I'll be getting this out there and I so appreciate
you coming on. I think this was interesting on so
many levels. So you really help people see the why
around this, which I find really important, so thank.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
You, well, thank you likewise, this great great time.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Okay, well, thank you and thank you audience for joining
us on another great episode of the Money and You Show.
We love having you listen to the show. We hope
you continue to do so. Subscribe, leave us a rating
and a review. Share it with your friends. This is
I know you know people who need to hear this show,
so please share it and we are so grateful and
thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
And we'll see you next week.
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